Deathrite Thopters

[phazonmutant]

After scrubbing out of GP Denver, alphastryk challenged me to make a Deathrite Shaman & Thopter Foundry list. He had played the old Esper Gearheart Shot-In-The-Dark deck and the sweet Grixis Welder Strix (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24101-Goblin-Welder-Baleful-Strix-Thopter-Foundry-Sword-of-the-Meek&highlight=) deck pretty extensively, so I wanted to see if I could fix the problems with those lists.

Deathrite is amazing both in and for Thopters. The major problem with those two previous decks is mana - getting your colors consistently, casting your expensive spells like Intuition and Tezzeret, activating Thopter Foundry, etc - and Deathrite fixes mana as well as ramps. It's also amazing for Thopters because people are playing drastically fewer effects that interact with Sword of the Meek (Deathrite can't hit it). I had some other problems with those builds too: a) they had too many all-in or narrow cards that were only "good" because the decks were built to maximise Tezzeret and/or Welder (e.g. Ensnaring Bridge), or b) a pile of tempo- and card-negative spells (e.g. multiple Intuition, Chrome Mox).

This 4-color list has shown that it has reasonably consistent mana under pressure (tested against Thresh) and has powerful, versatile spells, and an unbeatable late-game. After a couple of iterations and some tests, here's where I'm at.

// Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Goblin Welder
3 Baleful Strix

// Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry

// Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

// Lands
1 Academy Ruins
2 Vault of Whispers
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tree of Tales
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Taiga

// Sideboard
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
3 Counterbalance

I think the list is still fairly rough, but it seems to have a lot of potential. Deathrite is a potent combination with Thopters, and Cabal Therapy is very, very good in this deck with all the value-producing 1/1s. Tezzeret can kill out of nowhere and it plays versatile answers like Deathrite, Abrupt Decay, and Force of Will. It has a very good curve for the Counterbalance out of the board.

Some cards I'd like to get in the main: Engineered Explosives, Umezawa's Jitte, the 4th Top, Vendilion Clique, Intuition
Some cards I'd like to get in the board: Pyroblast, maybe Guardian Beast or Disfigure

The big questions to answer are:

Is it worth splashing R for Welder? So far he's been amazing late-game, but maybe it's better to be more consistent.
Is it correct to play Wastelands and a Crucible in the 75? I was testing with a couple main and screwed myself more often than not by Wasting.
How weak is the deck to combo? Should REBs be added to help shore up that weakness?


Results so far against the gauntlet:
RUG Thresh: 4-3 preboard
UW MiracleBlade: 3-2 preboard

Thresh won when it killed us before finding Thopter Foundry / Sword and/or denied all the mana.
Miracles won with Entreat and Batterskull while keeping us off Foundry / Sword.

[metamet]

I toyed with a similar idea recently. I like Intuition in here, but it feels a bit reliant on having a Goblin Welder out to take advantage of it. Have you done any further testing or tweaking?

Transmute Artifact is another neat card here, as you can sack a Sword for a Strix or the Foundry. It would be sad if it got countered, but it's not necessarily a bad idea. Right? :)

[.dk]

Cool concept and list - I really want Welder + Strix to be viable somewhere...

Question though - while I like that the concept isn't vulnerable to Deathrite Shaman, it seems like you still may have a bit of an issue with Surgical and Scavenging Ooze. Seems like your only answers to those are Force of Will and hoping that you hit one off of Therapy. Any thoughts on how matches where those cards are prevalent play out? Do you just plan on riding Tezz and/or Jace to victory in those cases?

Oh, and I guess you have decay for Ooze, I had forgotten about that. Maybe it's not as big of a deal as I first thought, especially since Maverick isn't really a thing right now.

[wcm8]

I would want to run 4 Decays. While it's true opposing Shaman decks can't hit your Sword of the Meek, they are likely to be running some number of Engineered Plague, or possibly Pithing Needle in their sideboards to throw a wrench in your plans. Plus, Decay is just great in general and will help you beat tempo decks that run Goyf and Delvers, buying you much-needed time to set up your combo.

I would consider sticking with BUG and maybe just drop the Goblin Welder angle. Intuition could be run as a method of consistently drawing the tools needed at the time, and I think you could run a single Life from the Loam and Academy Ruins to set up some soft-locks when it's called for.

[alphastryk]

I would want to run 4 Decays. While it's true opposing Shaman decks can't hit your Sword of the Meek, they are likely to be running some number of Engineered Plague, or possibly Pithing Needle in their sideboards to throw a wrench in your plans. Plus, Decay is just great in general and will help you beat tempo decks that run Goyf and Delvers, buying you much-needed time to set up your combo.

I would consider sticking with BUG and maybe just drop the Goblin Welder angle. Intuition could be run as a method of consistently drawing the tools needed at the time, and I think you could run a single Life from the Loam and Academy Ruins to set up some soft-locks when it's called for.

I feel like we have enough non-Thopter win condidions, especially postboard with Vendilion Clique that I'm not worried about plague.

Welder definitely may just be more cute than good, and going to 3 colors would help out the mana for sure.


Cool concept and list - I really want Welder + Strix to be viable somewhere...

Question though - while I like that the concept isn't vulnerable to Deathrite Shaman, it seems like you still may have a bit of an issue with Surgical and Scavenging Ooze. Seems like your only answers to those are Force of Will and hoping that you hit one off of Therapy. Any thoughts on how matches where those cards are prevalent play out? Do you just plan on riding Tezz and/or Jace to victory in those cases?

Oh, and I guess you have decay for Ooze, I had forgotten about that. Maybe it's not as big of a deal as I first thought, especially since Maverick isn't really a thing right now.

Surgical usually isn't an issue for Thopter-Sword decks in my experience, as long as you have an extra artifact (and mana) in play, you can eat it with foundry and get your sword in play before the extraxtion resolves, so just don't go all in with your mana if you can avoid it. Oooze can definitely be an issue, but thats what decay and Liliana are for.

[.dk]

Surgical usually isn't an issue for Thopter-Sword decks in my experience, as long as you have an extra artifact in play, you can eat it with foundry and get your sword in play before the extraxtion resolves. Oooze can definitely be an issue, but thats what decay and Liliana are for.

ah, right, that makes sense. as long as you have a mana open, then you're golden. shows how much thopters i've played...

[warfordium]

Transmute Artifact is another neat card here, as you can sack a Sword for a Strix or the Foundry. It would be sad if it got countered, but it's not necessarily a bad idea. Right? :)

the artifact is sacrificed as a part of the resolution of TA, not the cost! sdematt and i were trying to fit thopters into the bug shell (deathrite, strix, abrupt decay) but the numbers were hard to tweak…i think sticking to 3c is better. we also went to 2 drowned catacombs to help support the heavy UB requirements, and they were always welcome.

losing white (etutor) really hurts the deck, i think.

[phazonmutant]

I would want to run 4 Decays. While it's true opposing Shaman decks can't hit your Sword of the Meek, they are likely to be running some number of Engineered Plague, or possibly Pithing Needle in their sideboards to throw a wrench in your plans. Plus, Decay is just great in general and will help you beat tempo decks that run Goyf and Delvers, buying you much-needed time to set up your combo.

I would consider sticking with BUG and maybe just drop the Goblin Welder angle. Intuition could be run as a method of consistently drawing the tools needed at the time, and I think you could run a single Life from the Loam and Academy Ruins to set up some soft-locks when it's called for.

You're right that the deck wants more removal. If we're sticking with BUG, 4 AD and maybe a Disfigure or two would be good. I wanted more answers to Deathrite Shaman, Dark Confidant, and Stoneforge Mystic. We'd been discussing if the deck wants Crucible of Worlds, I think it's better than Loam. I do want to get an Intuition in there.



the artifact is sacrificed as a part of the resolution of TA, not the cost! sdematt and i were trying to fit thopters into the bug shell (deathrite, strix, abrupt decay) but the numbers were hard to tweak…i think sticking to 3c is better. we also went to 2 drowned catacombs to help support the heavy UB requirements, and they were always welcome.

losing white (etutor) really hurts the deck, i think.

Transmute Artifact is pretty cool. That might be worth an inclusion. I didn't miss ETutor when I played the deck because a) you don't have as many silver bullets and b) by the time you get to the late-game where Thopter-Sword is good, you're likely to be in a position to find it (Tezzeret, Brainstorms, etc).

I played the deck in a local tournament and it played surprisingly well. My list was the same maindeck as above, but sideboard was:
3 Counterbalance
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Galvanic Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Trading Post
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives


Round 1 - TES
Game 1 - he forgot that he needed double R to Burning Wish for Empty, so scooped. I would have been dead if he didn't tap City of Brass to Ponder.
Game 2 - He Duressed my Force then made a strong 18 goblins. Didn't have EE on Top.
Game 3 - Cliqued in response to his Silence, taking his only Burning Wish. I had no other protection spells though, so he was able to go off for 12 goblins. Managed to stabilize with Deathrite and some Strixes.
1-0

Round 2 - Burn
He told me during the match that he didn't have Chain Lightnings or "that red enchantment that players can't gain life"...nice deck.
Game 1 - He burns me out right before I can stabilize. He even suspended a lethal Rift Bolt instead of casting it.
Game 2 - I stabilize with Thopters and beat him
Game 3 - He gets me down to 2 before Deathrite and Thopters put me back up to 30. Counterbalance was active at that point too.
2-0

Round 3 - Death and Taxes
Game 1 - It's a very drawn-out game, but he made a couple of mistakes that I was able to punish him for. He had dealt with my Liliana and dropped Stoneforge. I had only a Deathrite and some lands in play, 2 cards in hand. Next turn he hard-cast Sword of Fire and Ice to get in an extra point of damage, but I had the Force. Later on, he Mangara'd something then hardcast him next turn instead of ticking up Vial. Again with only 2 cards in hand, I had drawn the Force and hardcast it. Eventually I won with Thopter Foundry once I realized it's impossible to kill Thalia with a Jitte and Karakas active.
Game 2 - He Disenchanted a Seat, leaving me at one land, but Top was able to find me a pile of lands. I was able to stop his threats and Tezzeret made a 5/5 Top to hold off a Mother of Runes with a SoFI. Eventually Tezzeret found Thopter-Sword and won.
3-0

Round 4 - ID
3-0-1

Semifinals - Esper Stoneblade
The guy is new to legacy but always plays a best deck. I was pretty angry about losing to him because he played slowly and poorly.
Game 1 - I mulled to 6. I dropped a Welder into double Deathrite, but he just Plowed Welder and Detention Sphere'd Deathrites. He got an early Stoneforge to put me on the back foot, then had a Force for Tezzeret, leaving me with nothing. I ripped another Tezzeret and he had the second Force. He dropped Jace and I scooped.
Game 2 - Mulled to 6 and kept 4 lands, 2 Cliques. He was leaving up Counterspell mana (which I had seen last game), so held off on the Cliques until he Thoughtseized me. He Brainstormed in response to Clique on the stack, so I took my own Clique (a mistake, I should have just peeked at his hand). This drew me into Tezzeret...which he declined to take, instead taking Thopter Foundry. He passed with 1 mana up. Figuring he had a Spell Pierce, I just played a Deathrite and lands until I could play Tezz around Pierce, but he had the Force. He dropped Jace and I scooped.

The Esper matchup felt like I never drew the right answers to punish him, but I think there also should be some more removal and artifact hate in the board. The Goblin Welders would have been good topdecks a couple of times, but for the most part weren't useful.

I want to try another 4c build before giving up and running straight BUG:

// Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Baleful Strix

// Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Batterskull

// Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

// Lands
1 Academy Ruins
2 Vault of Whispers
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tree of Tales
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah

[haganbmj]

Saw you running this last night, looks pretty powerful and certainly presents an interesting gameplan.
Definitely liked your reasoning behind the exclusion of Enlightened Tutor and other components from the old Thopter lists; trying to maximize card advantage with a combo flair seems perfectly acceptable.
That was my buddy running TES by the way; (3-1, win in top 8) not bad for his first night out with the deck - I don't think I'll let him live down that game one though.

[phazonmutant]

Saw you running this last night, looks pretty powerful and certainly presents an interesting gameplan.
Definitely liked your reasoning behind the exclusion of Enlightened Tutor and other components from the old Thopter lists; trying to maximize card advantage with a combo flair seems perfectly acceptable.
That was my buddy running TES by the way; (3-1, win in top 8) not bad for his first night out with the deck - I don't think I'll let him live down that game one though.

Thanks! Not sure it's better than either traditional BUG or Esper Stoneblade, but it does attack the meta from a different angle, which can be valuable in and of itself.

Yeah, found out who Megadeus was in real life right as he epically punted. To be fair, TES is a really hard first storm deck to play.