It feels wrong.

[Dan Turner]

I purchased this Berserk this week from a local player, I know he purchased it online about 6 years ago. The card passes the bend test you can see the blue layer from the sides etc but it just seems too dark to me when I compare it to my Beta Icy here. I am not sure why anyone would make a counterfeit that is that good for something like a Berserk though.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/65873_10200382919718290_1659594454_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/59529_10200382919798292_21960025_n.jpg

[Picc]

First remember quality control wasn't what it is today back in beta so lightness or darkness from card to card isn't a good indicator of legitimacy. Go in with a magnifying glass and look for the print rings, check the crispness of the font remember it was printed on a separate layer from the rest of the card so it should be crisp with no antialysing, do the light test next to a known good card and play a little face down 3 card monty with a friend to see if they can blind pick the face down fake significantly more then chance. There are a lot of good fakes out there these days but I've seen a lot of real cards destroyed because people got nervous too.

[kiblast]

Is it just me or I would never bend test a 20 years old piece of thin low quality cardboard? If you can see the blue line it's good. Magnifying lens are the best way to go if you have more concerns. How many people do you think have bend test the same card in 20 years ? Even the real ones can fail after dozens of bend tests applied over the course of years. Don't bend cards.

[Dan Turner]

Is it just me or I would never bend test a 20 years old piece of thin low quality cardboard? If you can see the blue line it's good. Magnifying lens are the best way to go if you have more concerns. How many people do you think have bend test the same card in 20 years ? Even the real ones can fail after dozens of bend tests applied over the course of years. Don't bend cards.

yea I know what you mean I was sad when I got some pieces of beta power last weekend and the timewalk has a slight crease on one side where someone used a bend test on it at one time. I got it at a big discount but still everything else on the card is perfect except that.

3 different people who collect have looked at it and said as far as they can tell it is real. So I am going to go with it being real for the time being unless I get someone who can prove its not. It has the little circles when you zoom in on the pictures with my microscope.

[nedleeds]

It's a good enough fake that it might as well be real; so what's the difference? At least on a mid value card like that.

[aahz]

It's probably real if you've already done everything you indicate and can't conclusively prove it's fake. As mentioned, there is a lot of variability in darkness/lightness in ABU. This pic might help you feel better about it:
http://www.mns-images.org/aahz/berserk.jpg

[Tha Gunslinga]

Looks like Dark Beta to me, or possibly a bad fake. Can you scan the back?

[Dan Turner]

Looks like Dark Beta to me, or possibly a bad fake. Can you scan the back?

The icy is one I got from you actually so we know its good. they both feel and pass the light test the same and have the blue line.

the berserk is on the left the icy is on the right

http://i49.tinypic.com/35a3pj8.jpg

[Finn]

I have some very dark beta stuff. I would not take that into consideration one bit. They were printing these cards from a garage after all.

[Tha Gunslinga]

"Dark Beta" is a specific variant of fakes. I know there are color variations among Magic cards.

The back of the Berserk looks fine. If you really want to know, take it to a dealer like SCG or T&T and they will know for sure. I'd be able to tell if I saw it in person.

[Finn]

I don't know about any "Dark Beta" fakes. But I have stacks of beta cards that are surely not fakes. Good cards, but also Circle of Protection:Red, Giant Growth, etc that I have owned since like 1994 or something (I did not ever get beta packs). They did not have value when I got them and some of this stuff nobody would bother to fake anyway. There are some regular and some very dark ones, with nothing in between.

[Dan Turner]

My main worry is from back in the late 90's when someone at Xerox up in the north east someplace used a 4 color printer to reproduce almost perfect fakes from blanked out basic lands or something of the sort. I believe theses were the dark beta ones they refer to. A bigger worry I would have is someone setting up an actual print shop with the sole purpose of printing perfects fakes in China or something.

[Koby]

Dark Beta is a full reproduction from the stolen Beta print plates. It looks nearly identical to Beta cards, except for having some coloration that is off (as the pigment could not be matched exactly).

Previous Source thread - "The Dark" Carta Mundi Counterfeits (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?7911-quot-The-Dark-quot-Carta-Mundi-Counterfeits)
MOTL thread - Dark Beta (http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/025021.html)

[Finn]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139381&d=1359653651

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139380&d=1359650068
These are both Unlimited. Sorry for the gross difference in image size. One is from my phone while the other is just the gatherer img. I have other cards that are both dark and light, but I don't have one of each for any particular card apparently. But here you can see the heavy red in my version, especially in the skin of the person in the pic. The darker borders don't come out too clearly, but they are there too for sure. The printing process was just not that good back then, making for some strange differences. Early sets were literally printed in a garage. I also have quite a few old lands that are clearly darker on the BACK than my other cards. Talk about ripe for sleaze.