Nether Void Shenanigans

[KazinMtg]

I've been toying around with this deck concept for a while now, and I'm really just not sure which is the best route to take with this idea...

It all started the first time I saw Cavern of Souls. I was playing a lot of Pox at the time, and the interaction between Cavern and Nether Void became apparent to me very quickly. Nether Void COUNTERS all spells unless their controller pays an additional 3, Cavern of course makes creatures you cast with it uncounterable. Seems pretty silly right? I then realized Aether Vial could pull some similarly silly crap with this deck if done right. I started by trying to think of tribes that would go well with this concept. Zombies? Merfolk? Elves? Humans? I really didnt know exactly where to go with it. I even considered naming artificer so I could cheat in batterskulls with a sfm. I also toyed around with adding 4 bloodghast to ALL THE LISTS!!! Since it has such great synergy with nether void (my blood ghast gets countered, I play a land...)

Another route I considered was B/R and use the rituals from both colors to quickly get off the nether void, and then play dwarven miners to be mean with bloodghasts as the kill.

Anyways, what route would you guys go with this concept of cheating things past Nether Void? Do you think this could be competitive if done right?

[TheG]

Good idea, i suggest also Chalice of the Void like an old school green chalice aggro.

Zombies could be B/U with the new addition of Innstrad cycle, like Skaab Ruinator That's huge with Vial.

[Leftconsin]

This is probably drifting into the realm of overly cool things, but Multani's Presence lets you draw cards when you let a spell get countered. Gravecrawler turns into B:Draw a card for each Presence.

[KazinMtg]

Thanks for the great ideas! I didnt even consider Skaab Ruinator, if I end up going blue I think that's an auto-include. Also chalice is a fantastic idea, especially if I end up running sol lands, which I've been considering anyways since they will get the the void out that much faster.

I'm also really loving this Multani's Presence idea! At one mana its easily castable, even through a void. It's a live card in this format anyways with all the counters running around. Not to mention it forces me into G/B so I can run abrupt deacay (cant be countered pretty handy in this deck =P) and also probably deathrite shaman for some extra acceleration. I think I really like that idea. Possibly a junk nethervoid splashing white for Enlightened tutor, Stoneforge Mystic, maybe even serra avenger? This could be interesting...

[Mr.C]

So, wait, you could go BG and cast Thrun for beats? And not pay the extra 3?

[sco0ter]

Search for "can't be countered":

http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3Acan%27t+o%3Abe+o%3Acountered&v=card&s=cname

[KazinMtg]

So, wait, you could go BG and cast Thrun for beats? And not pay the extra 3?

Indeed =)


Search for "can't be countered":

http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3Acan%27t+o%3Abe+o%3Acountered&v=card&s=cname

Hmmm...looking through that, Gaea's Herald looked pretty neat. You could basically play some weird version of "nether void elves" and have natural acceleration for the void built into the deck.

Or...HOLY CRAP VEXING SHUSHER!!! Yeah. black green seems to be the way to go. That card just seems like it HAS to be in nether void shenanigans. It's just too perfect. Oh no I drew another void? No big deal I'll pay 1 more to cast it and now you have to pay 6 more to cast everything...go.

[StefN]

I had a Nether Void deck a long time ago. Basically it was a land destruction deck with Sinkhole, Vindicate, Wasteland and so on........the most important Card was Vexing Shusher to try to negate the Void effect as good as possible.
I thinck atm the best route is a deck that has a good game plan also without the Nether Void, with the Void in play Cavern and creatures that can't be countered (Thrun !!!) is the way to go.

By the way. I thinck you only can have 1 N. Void in play. It's an enchant world wich is the same as the legend rule.

[MGB]

How about a Knight creature base for this deck?

Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
Black Knight
Stromgald Crusader
Eastern Paladin
Knight of Infamy
Order of the Ebon Hand

Most of these have protection from White, which means that opponent will be forced to destroy them instead of exile them, which lets Haakon recur them indefinitely. With Cavern of Souls naming "Knight", they are uncounterable by opponent and skirt the effects of active Nether Void.

Most of these Knights are also 2cc, which work perfectly with Vial, which is usually set to 2 counters.

You could play 4 Cabal Therapy as well, and abuse it with recurring Knights.

I would also play a Winter Orb, Wasteland, and Chrome Mox package to further support the Nether Void / AEther Vial theme of one-sided mana denial. Under Orb, your opponents will be more affected than you because you are playing Vials and Moxen. Orb + Nether Void is practically a hard lock at that point.


Rough decklist:

7 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Tomb of Urami
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Chrome Mox
4 AEther Vial

4 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
4 Black Knight
4 Order of the Ebon Hand
4 Knight of Infamy
4 Stromgald Crusader
2 Eastern Paladin

4 Cabal Therapy

4 Winter Orb
4 Nether Void


SB: Some mixture of Engineered Plague, Perish, graveyard hate, etc.

[Köffaß]

This thread definitely needs a list. Therefore I'll post one straight up:


4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Vexing Shusher

4 Aether Vial
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Nether Void

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Ritual

4 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls


Going BG is imo best, because it grants access to some really sweet creatures named Goyf, Thrun and Shusher.

The main question to answer is, what you will do if you don't draw a Nether Void. So I've figured out it might be good to follow the "prison" route and include some Trinisphere and Chalice of the Void. While Chalice of the Void synergizes well with the "can't be countered"-stuff and therefore is an auto-include, Trinisphere doesn't. At least it isn't preventing ourselves from casting Nether Void, like Thorn of Amethyst etc. is doing. So these slots may be discussed.
Playing that much spell hate is necessary for a solid combo-match up, because Nether Void will often be too slow for that. Though in play, it just wins the game.

What I am actually not sure about is the creature base. Besides Thrun and Shusher they don't synergize too well, but with these + Aether Vial + Cavern of Souls we might be able to cheat in enough stuff. So we basicly need some big fatties to smash our opponent's face. Tarmogoyf might be a viable choice, though there probably won't be too much cards in the graveyards cause of the prison thing.
The same problem goes for the Deathrite Shaman, which shall help us cast Nether Void. Dunno if he's good enough in this type of deck.
Also the creature types ain't optimal to really abuse Cavern of Souls.


So, what do you guys think?

[KazinMtg]

Thanks for posting some lists up guys! I really like some ideas from both lists. Winter orb seems like a pretty natural fit in this deck, possibly some combination of the g/b list Köffaß posted with a couple winter orbs instead of running 4 trinispheres might be perfect. Especially since both cards work horribly in doubles.

I kinda like deathrite in this deck actually. We're def going to be running wastelands anyways for their synergy with nether void, and having the void hit the table 1 turn earlier could easily be the difference between a win and a loss with this deck. It also is another mana source that isnt affected by winter orb. I kinda like it.

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm off to work, but later on I'll see about updating the original post with a list so we can get a little more exposure.

[MGB]

Or, of course, you could just go the AEther Vial + B/W Humans route with Nether Void and Winter Orb as well:


4 Mother of Runes
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Dark Confidant
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Glowrider
4 Fiend Hunter

4 Winter Orb
4 Nether Void

4 AEther Vial
4 Chrome Mox

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Plains

[Greenpoe]

This thread definitely needs a list. Therefore I'll post one straight up:


4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Vexing Shusher

4 Aether Vial
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Nether Void

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Ritual

4 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls


Going BG is imo best, because it grants access to some really sweet creatures named Goyf, Thrun and Shusher.

The main question to answer is, what you will do if you don't draw a Nether Void. So I've figured out it might be good to follow the "prison" route and include some Trinisphere and Chalice of the Void. While Chalice of the Void synergizes well with the "can't be countered"-stuff and therefore is an auto-include, Trinisphere doesn't. At least it isn't preventing ourselves from casting Nether Void, like Thorn of Amethyst etc. is doing. So these slots may be discussed.
Playing that much spell hate is necessary for a solid combo-match up, because Nether Void will often be too slow for that. Though in play, it just wins the game.

What I am actually not sure about is the creature base. Besides Thrun and Shusher they don't synergize too well, but with these + Aether Vial + Cavern of Souls we might be able to cheat in enough stuff. So we basicly need some big fatties to smash our opponent's face. Tarmogoyf might be a viable choice, though there probably won't be too much cards in the graveyards cause of the prison thing.
The same problem goes for the Deathrite Shaman, which shall help us cast Nether Void. Dunno if he's good enough in this type of deck.
Also the creature types ain't optimal to really abuse Cavern of Souls.


So, what do you guys think?

With the BG list, you've got a lot of really sweet stuff - Dark Ritual to cast Nether Void T2 or Trinisphere T2 and Vial + Cavern + Shrusher + Thrun + Decay to get around Nether Void. But on the other hand, you've got a lot of awful topdecks for the mid/late game. So, I'd start by going -2 Trinisphere, -1 Vial, +1 Shaman (makes mana which helps to play around Nether Void), +2 Winter Orb.

[phazonmutant]

Or...HOLY CRAP VEXING SHUSHER!!! Yeah. black green seems to be the way to go. That card just seems like it HAS to be in nether void shenanigans. It's just too perfect. Oh no I drew another void? No big deal I'll pay 1 more to cast it and now you have to pay 6 more to cast everything...go.

Keep in mind Nether Void is a world enchant. It doesn't stack, sadly.

[Köffaß]

With the BG list, you've got a lot of really sweet stuff - Dark Ritual to cast Nether Void T2 or Trinisphere T2 and Vial + Cavern + Shrusher + Thrun + Decay to get around Nether Void. But on the other hand, you've got a lot of awful topdecks for the mid/late game. So, I'd start by going -2 Trinisphere, -1 Vial, +1 Shaman (makes mana which helps to play around Nether Void), +2 Winter Orb.

Yeah, bad topdecks are a problem, though Bob helps us by drawing more cards ; ). Also I'm not too happy with Trinisphere itself, at least not with 3 or 4 copies main. What I'm considering is splashing white for some Enlightened Tutor and big creatures like Knight of the Reliquary or Stoneforge Mystic. That would solve not only the 3sphere problem, but also the suboptimal creature base. Furthermore that would make the deck better, if we do not a have Nether Void in play plus Knight may help screw opponent's mana base with some Wasteland spam.

I disagree about Winter Orb because of three reasons:

• It hurts us, too. Though a KotR may almost negate that buy saccing tapped lands to get a fresh one.
• With one untapped land per turn and a land drop, we are giving our opponent two lands to cast things, which a lot decks won't have too much problems adapting to it.
• Doesn't do anything against the most combo decks.



I've tinkered a new BGW The Rock-esque list, which looks like this:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

4 Aether Vial
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere

4 Nether Void

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Ritual
2 Enlightened Tutor

3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith

Any Thoughts?

[MGB]

After some testing, I've decided that this is really all about stapling Nether Void onto a Death and Taxes type of shell, but with the black splash for Void and for Thoughtseize and Dark Confidant.

The 4 Caverns and 4 Vials really make Nether Void one-sided and basically game over if you land it 90% of the time.



4 Thoughtseize

4 Aether Vial

4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Fiend Hunter (or Mangara)
2 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Stoneforge Mystic (despite not being "Human", it's too good for a W aggro deck not to play, and great under Void + with Vial)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Nether Void

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland

[gkraigher]

I've tried to make a deck with the card since cavern of souls came out, and unfortunately I don't think there is any version that is viable. It seems like a great card, and it can \win games, but the deck design with the card is too linear. Any deck with the card becomes dependent on it hitting the board, and you win only when it does. Keep throwing ideas off each other and keep trying, I don't want to discourage it, but in my opinion it simply isn't viable.

[MGB]

I've tried to make a deck with the card since cavern of souls came out, and unfortunately I don't think there is any version that is viable. It seems like a great card, and it can \win games, but the deck design with the card is too linear. Any deck with the card becomes dependent on it hitting the board, and you win only when it does. Keep throwing ideas off each other and keep trying, I don't want to discourage it, but in my opinion it simply isn't viable.

That's why I think that just stapling it onto a Death and Taxes build playing Cavern and Dark Confidants makes it work, because in that particular build - if you will note in the post above you - the deck is not dependent on landing the Void. It can play the card advantage game / tempo game with Thalias, Vials, Confidants, Wastelands even when Void is not in play, and it can still go head-to-head with other aggro decks because of guys like Mirran Crusader and Stoneforge Mystic.

[Moduloc]

I have been tinkering with this very Idea when abrupt and caverns came into being, I thought using shamans would be the best route because of Deathrite shaman. He is an accelerant to the void and other things as well. I like also how if you can make a soft lock with the void he acts as a sort of lavamancer as well. the shaman I've been testing are, hexmage with dark depths, thrun, eternal witness, there are other good shamans as well but haven't tried them yet, viridian shaman, knighthawk, troll ascetic, fauna shaman, skinshifter.

[MGB]

I have been tinkering with this very Idea when abrupt and caverns came into being, I thought using shamans would be the best route because of Deathrite shaman. He is an accelerant to the void and other things as well. I like also how if you can make a soft lock with the void he acts as a sort of lavamancer as well. the shaman I've been testing are, hexmage with dark depths, thrun, eternal witness, there are other good shamans as well but haven't tried them yet, viridian shaman, knighthawk, troll ascetic, fauna shaman, skinshifter.

Shamans route is highly intriguing, actually.
Rage Forger is a really underrated aggro card that can pump out a ton of damage very quickly.
Fauna Shaman gives you the ability to run a toolbox.
Shamans have a whole bunch of different utility creatures like Loaming Shaman (anti-gy), Viridian Shaman (anti-artifact), Fulminator Mage (land destrution on a stick) and Wickerbough Elder (anti-artifact/anti-enchant).

I'm testing this out right now:


4 Cavern of Souls
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
2 Badlands
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga

4 Chrome Mox
4 AEther Vial

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Rage Forger
3 Skinshifter
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Loaming Shaman
2 Wolf-Skull Shaman
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Viridian Shaman

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Nether Void

SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void


That's probably too large of a toolbox and not enough 4-ofs, but right now I want to test out every utility shaman to see which ones are good and which ones aren't.

Also, I don't know if the Chrome Mox is needed or not. I feel like we need to get Nether Void out earlier than later, but Mox might just not be necessary with the Deathrite in there.

[guybrush3]

I was also trying to build a deck like this without knowing of this post.

I would say that this deck shoud go like this :

CORE OF THE VOD DECK:
4 nether void (of course
4 aether vial (does way better than vexing
4 chalice of the void (has void in his name , of course it has the counter all text so it fits perfectly,to be dropped to block casting cost 1,
4 abrupt decay (top spell

All the other cards should be almost all creature based (uncountarable due to the instant vial effect) and most of the them with some come into play effect that subtitles the disruption spells we are not playing.
2 sylvan library (no cost drawing machine , it costs 2 in case of chalice1
4 dark confident (draw machine nice with lib, u need to cast nether void fast.
4 shaman ( ramp , damage, recover machine)
4 stoneforge mystic ( strong and allows you to drop equipments
2 vexying shuser (in case you dropped caliche at one and cant drop vial,shouldn't happen.
3 generic equipments
+4 other creatures
tot creatures:18, enough for vial?

+21 lands (mishra fits well of course but not many cuz of the colors, i think the land that makes creature type uncountarable is cool but not needed)
cards that might fit well are enginnered explosives,Eternal Witness, Tidehollow Sculler, Harmonic Sliver,tarmogoyf


blue cards that might be worth to change the deck to a green black blue list (without white and equipment):
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner , In The Eye Of Chaos (but is an enchant world),counterbalance. Actually maybe countertop with nether void caliche abrupt could be very cool if u build a proper mana curve,but this will be a less aggro version of it. In that case i'll probabily keep only abrupt as a green splash spell and will try to build it around countertop chalice void mishras eye of chaos force of will (good discarding extra enchant worlds and counterbalances) ill risk dark confidents too .well let me do the blu version of it then

ill say something like this, needs a couple of uncountarable finishers.
blue:
4 counterbalance (part of the core
4 landstill (turn 1 mishra turn 2 landstill is always cool, turn 1 chalice turn 2 landstill too, turn 1 force turn 2 landstill too)
4 force of will (not sure cuz of eye of chaos that will kill your forces,but still good since u have many blue useless cards to get rid off-eye and counter
4 in the eye of chaos (core addonn needs tests

4 nether void (the core
4 abrupt (the outsider that cleans the board and costs the same under void chaos
4 dark confident (draw machine

4 sensei (part of the core
4 chalice (setted at 1. even if it blocks sensei still has to be dropped. counter balance will counter most of the 2 spells. u could still drop sensei once theyll destroy it. if they dont u wont need sensei that much since u have spells 1 and 2 blocked


20 other lands well manacurved (4UB,4UG,6 fetches,1BG,3island,2wasteland) +4 mishras

tell me what u think.

EDIT: what i really think is that nether void should be casted with DARK RITUAL on turn 2 after dropped a mishra. that will bring the deck to a monocolor or at max 2 color-BG deck. I'll probabilly focus on mana accelerating,another awesome dark ritual drop like liliana and other black green creature or control stuff(depends if u want to play vials).something like this
4 shaman
4 dark ritual
4 nether void
4 liliana
4 abrupt decay
4 aerther vial
4 tarmogoyf (bad idea with shaman?)
4 dark confidant
couple vexing shusers
u add the rest, i'll honestly play 4 rhystic tutors.

[KazinMtg]

If you're going the chalice route, I'd recommend some sol lands, like 4 ancient tomb, and possibly a city of traitors. This way you can easily drop a turn 1 chalice, and it will also help speed your nether void by a full turn. Bob also might be a bit dangerous here, but you could probably get away with it. Looks good. have you had any luck in testing? What have you played against so far?

[guybrush3]

If you're going the chalice route, I'd recommend some sol lands, like 4 ancient tomb, and possibly a city of traitors. This way you can easily drop a turn 1 chalice, and it will also help speed your nether void by a full turn. Bob also might be a bit dangerous here, but you could probably get away with it. Looks good. have you had any luck in testing? What have you played against so far?

here it is then:

2 Thrun, the Last Troll Buy


Spells
4 Abrupt Decay Buy
4 Brainstorm Buy
4 Force of Will Buy
1 Mana Leak Buy
2 Spell Snare
4 Thoughtseize Buy


Enchantments
3 Nether Void Buy
3 Standstill Buy


Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void Buy
2 Trinisphere Buy


Lands
4 Ancient Tomb Buy
3 Bayou Buy
2 City of Traitors Buy
3 Mishra's Factory Buy
1 Tropical Island Buy
4 Underground Sea Buy
2 polluted delta
4 Verdant Catacombs Buy
3 Wasteland Buy

planeswalker
1 Jace



Afters testing ive arrived to the conclusion that nether void is a dead card if you dont build the deck around it. You really want to be able to drop it if u have it in your hand and for doing so u will have to build up a defense in the first 2/3 turns. Placing void in a creature deck is stupid.
Playing it in a deck with ancient tomb and city is way more smart. Chalice is a small void so its a perfect combination.
Turn 1 control options such as a :1:chalice , thought seize, counters, brainstorms is a perfect start.
Turn 2 standstill gives u card advantage , trinisphere is something opponents would like to remove, abrupt decay are a turn 2 option two ( not to say how they interact under nether void).
Turn 3 void is the lock. With lands that provide u double mana you will also be able to play cards cmc 1 (if u havent set a chalice) and cmc 2 without problems (abrupt smiles at this).

Wasteland is the evergreen slowing down you opponent card and mishras are the finishers that will pass through standstill and nether void.
Hope u liked it cuz it works.


x1 Cabal Pit is a card i would like to add... helps u to remove a creature likes opponents mishras or tiny creatures that are casted under void or just sneaked behind your defenses