If Allied Fetches are Reprinted for Standard/Modern

[TorpidNinja]

So, what happens in this instance? Does the increased supply decrease the cost or will the initial demand from Standard and the lingering demand from Modern dramatically increase the cost?

[phonics]

Same thing as shocklands? Nowadays a ton of product from the newest set gets opened.

[nedleeds]

People would cry about the next most expensive card they still can't afford to play the format.

[Koby]

People would cry about the next most expensive card they still can't afford to play the format.

Before RTR is was shocklands. Now its Goyf and Fetchlands, next it will be Thoughtseize and Clique, etc.

People will complain about anything money related. They want cards to be free and everyone to get invited to Pro Tours.

[sdematt]

So true, Koby. It's because we're raising children to think everyone deserves everything.

-Matt

[lordofthepit]

People would cry about the next most expensive card they still can't afford to play the format.

[TsumiBand]

Well that escalated quickly; reprints to child raising practices. Well trolled, the Source.

I personally do not care about cards that fall within a $5-$20 US range, it's the ridiculous shit that pushes $50, $100, and higher that just makes me piss goldfish. Maybe my threshold for "what I'm willing to pay for a bunch of cardboard to bump my win percentage on a hobby that I don't have a ton of time dedicated to" is just a lot lower than other people's.

[Psyqo]

To answer the OP, initial skyrocket as competitive Standard players 1) prepare for the new meta and 2) Make their deck pretty with Onslaught fetches.

After a few months the cost of both the old and new fetches will drop to levels lower than where the current fetches are.

[xfxf]

I think we need to establish a universally acceptable max $$$ value for a competitive Magic deck to put an end to these circular discussions. Then, based on that amount we can silence the poor players if the card prices are within acceptable bounds or shun the rich elitists if the card prices are going over the top. Otherwise these discussions are entirely subjective.

[DragoFireheart]

Hey guys, $100 for a piece of cardboard is reasonable.

[xfxf]

Let me tell you worse, actual $100 is not even a cardboard - it's a piece of paper! Yeah I know, welcome to the world of "the new world order/bankers ruling the world" conspiracies.

[Vidi]

People who keep complaining about how wotc should reprint expensive staples should be publicly executed, what do you think this is? Yu-Gi-Oh? This applies to people who want Brainstorm to be banned in Legacy as well. I'm not pointing fingers, just talking about people in general. :smile:

[Koby]

Hey guys, $100 for a piece of cardboard is reasonable.

At $100 for a piece of cardboard, you're now paying more per unit than for solid 24ct Gold. Keep that in mind.

100 ct Magic Cards = 0.4 British pounds * 16 oz / 1 British pound * 0.911458333 troy oz / 1 oz = 5.833 troy oz

Gold @ $1,655 / troy oz

100 ct Magic cards = $9654.17
1 ct Magic cards = $96.54

Query on TCGplayer (1/25/2013) - Tarmogoyf H: $129.99 M: $110.98 L: $97.00
FACT: Goyf is worth more than its weight in Gold.

[LennonMarx]

That's a cool fact. Also kind of depressing...

[Zieby]

At $100 for a piece of cardboard, you're now paying more per unit than for solid 24ct Gold. Keep that in mind.

100 ct Magic Cards = 0.4 British pounds * 16 oz / 1 British pound * 0.911458333 troy oz / 1 oz = 5.833 troy oz

Gold @ $1,655 / troy oz

100 ct Magic cards = $9654.17
1 ct Magic cards = $96.54

Query on TCGplayer (1/25/2013) - Tarmogoyf H: $129.99 M: $110.98 L: $97.00
FACT: Goyf is worth more than its weight in Gold.
Just lolled from the bank on the ground.

[xfxf]

Honesty time, I used to be priced out of competitive Standard when I was a kid because Mox Diamond was $20, so now I can feel for people complaining about $60 - $120 cards. However, it's time that people started realizing that for some things you've got to prioritize. I'm a grown up with a job and I'm planning my annual vacations according to my planned Vintage deck savings for god's sake! I know I can always say f. with the Lotus and go to the Benicassim festival or feel all geeky and stay in to wait for the arrival of my Lotus. As a student if you think Magic is worth more of your time and money you can party $100 less a month and get yourself a shiny new Tarmogoyf. Simple as that.

[DragoFireheart]

At $100 for a piece of cardboard, you're now paying more per unit than for solid 24ct Gold. Keep that in mind.

100 ct Magic Cards = 0.4 British pounds * 16 oz / 1 British pound * 0.911458333 troy oz / 1 oz = 5.833 troy oz

Gold @ $1,655 / troy oz

100 ct Magic cards = $9654.17
1 ct Magic cards = $96.54

Query on TCGplayer (1/25/2013) - Tarmogoyf H: $129.99 M: $110.98 L: $97.00
FACT: Goyf is worth more than its weight in Gold.

Confirmed that Tarmogoyf is made of gold.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

If they were reprinted as rares in a highly opened Standard set, they would likely plummet in price besides maybe Wooded Foothills (or is that a card now that Jund is a deck?). Rares are simply more common now than they used to be, and chase mythics or a high expected value per pack depress the price of contemporary rares even more. None of them could maintain a price north of around ~$20. Onslaught era print runs are just so much smaller than the current playerbase.

I don't think they will reprint them in a Standard set though. Wizards no longer likes excessive shuffling effects, nor lands that require life payments to make mana. The Zendikar ones was just printed to finish of the cycle as well as to interact with Landfall. Plus, Modern can barely handle five of the best degenerate manabase enablers in the history of Magic; I don't think they need to add fuel to those fires by doubling the number. In fact, banning the fetches might go a long way to fixing Modern's nonbasic/manabase problems. That would be a pretty smart ban though, so don't expect Wizards to do it.


Well that escalated quickly; reprints to child raising practices. Well trolled, the Source.

The people who deem pro-reprinters "entitled" crack me up. It's entitled to lobby (however ineffectively) for a company to produce a product that you, and likely many others, would like to buy from them but it isn't entitled to oppose said people because you want to maintain value on your hobby pieces that stems mostly from the use-value? Rich. It's that attitude and Wizard's acquiescence to it that makes (eternal) Magic one of the most economically warped hobbies out there. Not only can you use the materials of the hobby, but they aren't typically subject to the depreciation of practically any other hobby material. It's not like stamps, coins, sports cards, memorabilia, etc. where while they tend to appreciate, you don't get much "use" from them and use isn't the main thing driving price (scarcity is). And to top it all off, (eternal) Magic can't even be approached in the same way as other expensive hobbies. Saving up over a long period of time doesn't work with the way price and meta fluctuations work. And there are no benefits to late adopters (like how electronics get cheaper) or a robust secondary market full of budget alternatives, like golf. No, Burn is as much a legitimate budget alternative in Legacy as mini-golf is to real golf.

[Koby]

Budget alternatives exist, they just don't exist in the Tournament environment of the same format. Mostly, Limited would be the budget alternative. In the entire game of MTG, there exists many substitutes.

Unfortunately, there doesn't exist a good substitute for "Modern PTQ" deck. Based on the demand alone, each newly developed "budget" contender will have its cards priced out of reach to most casual players.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

People who keep complaining about how wotc should reprint expensive staples should be publicly executed, what do you think this is? Yu-Gi-Oh? This applies to people who want Brainstorm to be banned in Legacy as well. I'm not pointing fingers, just talking about people in general. :smile:

You are the one percent :tongue:

[Fry]

Let me tell you worse, actual $100 is not even a cardboard - it's a piece of paper! Yeah I know, welcome to the world of "the new world order/bankers ruling the world" conspiracies.

Actually, "paper money" isn't really paper, it's really a form of fabric with ink that never completely dries. The composition of this fabric is an extremely well kept government secret. Well that's as far as the American "paper money" goes.

[Lord Seth]

The people who deem pro-reprinters "entitled" crack me up. It's entitled to lobby (however ineffectively) for a company to produce a product that you, and likely many others, would like to buy from them but it isn't entitled to oppose said people because you want to maintain value on your hobby pieces that stems mostly from the use-value? Rich. It's that attitude and Wizard's acquiescence to it that makes (eternal) Magic one of the most economically warped hobbies out there. Not only can you use the materials of the hobby, but they aren't typically subject to the depreciation of practically any other hobby material. It's not like stamps, coins, sports cards, memorabilia, etc. where while they tend to appreciate, you don't get much "use" from them and use isn't the main thing driving price (scarcity is). And to top it all off, (eternal) Magic can't even be approached in the same way as other expensive hobbies. Saving up over a long period of time doesn't work with the way price and meta fluctuations work. And there are no benefits to late adopters (like how electronics get cheaper) or a robust secondary market full of budget alternatives, like golf. No, Burn is as much a legitimate budget alternative in Legacy as mini-golf is to real golf.I wish there was an option on this forum to give this a thumbs up.

[SpikeyMikey]

People who keep complaining about how wotc should reprint expensive staples should be publicly executed, what do you think this is? Yu-Gi-Oh? This applies to people who want Brainstorm to be banned in Legacy as well. I'm not pointing fingers, just talking about people in general. :smile:

I play the game because I love the contest of intellects. I enjoy winning, much like anyone else, but I prefer to win because I built a better deck than my opponent. I prefer to win because I'm more clever than them. There are some people out there who don't have the intelligence to beat an opponent in a fair contest. Those people prefer to win because they have cards that more intelligent opponents may not have access to due to price. These people complain about the idea of reprints and try and push their own insecurities about their penis size off onto others, claiming that it would be unfair for Wizards to reprint cards they've spent money on. I don't know about executing them, but they certainly deserve to be made fun of for their inability to win a fair game of Magic.

I'm not pointing fingers, just talking about people in general.

[csy]

The old 'paying that much for cardboard' joke is dead. People will pay whatever they want for whatever they want. Just because you can't afford some cards or think that x is too much money doesn't mean it is to everyone. I play on paper and online, because I love the game and can afford it. I would love wotc to reprint everything so everyone could play, but then everyone would bitch that 5 dollars was too expensive.

[slave]

.... their own insecurities about their penis size off onto others.....

:eyebrow: Wtf?
We're talking about a card game right?!?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The old 'paying that much for cardboard' joke is dead. People will pay whatever they want for whatever they want. Just because you can't afford some cards or think that x is too much money doesn't mean it is to everyone. I play on paper and online, because I love the game and can afford it. I would love wotc to reprint everything so everyone could play, but then everyone would bitch that 5 dollars was too expensive.

Some people will say that having to pay 10% of their income in taxes is too much, and some people will say that having to pay 99.9% of their income in taxes is too much; but the quantity and quality of those doing said complaining does not remain consistent throughout, nor does this serve as a good excuse to abdicate our own judgment.

[Esper3k]

I play the game because I love the contest of intellects. I enjoy winning, much like anyone else, but I prefer to win because I built a better deck than my opponent. I prefer to win because I'm more clever than them. There are some people out there who don't have the intelligence to beat an opponent in a fair contest. Those people prefer to win because they have cards that more intelligent opponents may not have access to due to price. These people complain about the idea of reprints and try and push their own insecurities about their penis size off onto others, claiming that it would be unfair for Wizards to reprint cards they've spent money on. I don't know about executing them, but they certainly deserve to be made fun of for their inability to win a fair game of Magic.

I'm not pointing fingers, just talking about people in general.

See, I don't see the winner of a particular match as being particularly more intelligent a person or not. With how varied the card pool is especially in a format like Legacy, luck in your matchups, luck in the cards drawn, how well you read the metagame, your respective levels of mental/physical fatigue, and any number of many factors all matter a bunch.

So in general, would I say the better Magic player won? Sure. Does it necessarily mean that the better Magic player is more intelligent? I don't think I can agree with that statement.

[Angelfire]

I wish there was an option on this forum to give this a thumbs up.

After spending time on Reddit, I feel the exact same way. Sometimes a post deserves recognition, but doesn't need a a reply.

[Shawon]

We should have a 'like' option, except make it Magic-themed, like "Put a +1/+1 counter on this post." But keep the whole thing positive and not include 'dislike' options. I don't think many people's egos could handle their post getting a reduction in their power and toughness.

EDIT: Or do custom-made designs that each poster can pick. Say a Storm player wants to "add +1 Storm to this post" or an Infect player wants to "add 1 poison counter to this post.'

[csy]

there is an addon for this forum software that will allow people to vote up and down posts. Then the User can set a level of tolerance that they'd like to have for the forums. i.e., I have absolutely NO tolerance for ANYONE voted down past 2. Their posts will be hidden.


Id like to have this feature.

[TorpidNinja]

This escalated quickly.

[bruizar]

I play the game because I love the contest of intellects. I enjoy winning, much like anyone else, but I prefer to win because I built a better deck than my opponent. I prefer to win because I'm more clever than them. There are some people out there who don't have the intelligence to beat an opponent in a fair contest. Those people prefer to win because they have cards that more intelligent opponents may not have access to due to price. These people complain about the idea of reprints and try and push their own insecurities about their penis size off onto others, claiming that it would be unfair for Wizards to reprint cards they've spent money on. I don't know about executing them, but they certainly deserve to be made fun of for their inability to win a fair game of Magic.

I'm not pointing fingers, just talking about people in general.
I ask you who the more intelligent player is. The person that anticipates the powerlevel of a card and obtains it while it is still accessible, or the person that complains after the he finds out the card is no longer accessible for a reasonable price?

Please study the art of war


"In ancient times those known as good warriors prevailed when it was easy to prevail.
Therefore the victories of good warriors are not noted for cleverness or bravery. Therefore their victories in battle are not flukes. Their victories are not flukes because they position themselves where they will surely win, prevailing over those who have already lost.
So it is that good warriors take their stand on ground where they cannot lose, and do not overlook conditions that make an opponent prone to defeat.
Therefore a victorious army first wins and then seeks battle; a defeated army first battles and then seeks victory."
I will win through superior cards before the battle has started. How do i do it?

"2. Doing Battle

When you do battle, even if you are winning, if you continue for a long time it will dull your forces and blunt your edge; if you besiege a citadel, your strength will be exhausted. If you keep your armies out in the field for a long time, your supplies will be insufficient.
When your forces are dulled, your edge is blunted, your strength is exhausted, and your supplies are gone, then others will take advantage of your debility and rise up. Then even if you have wise advisors you cannot make things turn out well in the end.
Therefore I have heard of military operations that were clumsy but swift, but I have never seen one that was skillful and lasted a long time. It is never beneficial to a nation to have a military operation continue for a long time.
Therefore, those who are not thoroughly aware of the disadvantages in the use of arms cannot be thoroughly aware of the advantages in the use of arms.
Those who use the military skillfully do not raise troops twice and do not provide food three times."

Those who understand magic do not pay for fetchlands more than 10 USD or ravnica duals more than 5 USD.

[TsumiBand]

I ask you who the more intelligent player is. The person that anticipates the powerlevel of a card and obtains it while it is still accessible, or the person that complains after the he finds out the card is no longer accessible for a reasonable price?

Please study the art of war


"In ancient times those known as good warriors prevailed when it was easy to prevail.
Therefore the victories of good warriors are not noted for cleverness or bravery. Therefore their victories in battle are not flukes. Their victories are not flukes because they position themselves where they will surely win, prevailing over those who have already lost.
So it is that good warriors take their stand on ground where they cannot lose, and do not overlook conditions that make an opponent prone to defeat.
Therefore a victorious army first wins and then seeks battle; a defeated army first battles and then seeks victory."
I will win through superior cards before the battle has started. How do i do it?

"2. Doing Battle

When you do battle, even if you are winning, if you continue for a long time it will dull your forces and blunt your edge; if you besiege a citadel, your strength will be exhausted. If you keep your armies out in the field for a long time, your supplies will be insufficient.
When your forces are dulled, your edge is blunted, your strength is exhausted, and your supplies are gone, then others will take advantage of your debility and rise up. Then even if you have wise advisors you cannot make things turn out well in the end.
Therefore I have heard of military operations that were clumsy but swift, but I have never seen one that was skillful and lasted a long time. It is never beneficial to a nation to have a military operation continue for a long time.
Therefore, those who are not thoroughly aware of the disadvantages in the use of arms cannot be thoroughly aware of the advantages in the use of arms.
Those who use the military skillfully do not raise troops twice and do not provide food three times."

Those who understand magic do not pay for fetchlands more than 10 USD or ravnica duals more than 5 USD.

This only applies if you've been playing since said cards were worth said amount. Who is going to say, "Well in 5 years I'm going to start playing Magic, so I'd better acquire format staples now." Give me a fucking break. By this metric it is never logical to buy into an old format because you're constantly missing the boat. I look forward to what Legacy will look like in 3 years if this knowledge is applied; various versions of Bring Your Own Standard.

[xfxf]

You can't get every card with this mentality but you can catch the boat with some. Black Lotus was already a $300 when I started playing and back then my weekly allowance was $10 so I really couldn't practice the art of war but I certainly made up for it on many other staples. Many people here are complaining about cards like Jace even when they've been playing for 3-4 years. Jace was a $50 card ten months ago so if you missed it, it's a lesson to be learned. If you miss the Deathrite Shaman boat and it becomes the Dark Confidant or the new Tarmogoyf 4-5 years down the road certainly you don't know how to battle. And so on..

[Richard Cheese]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/326/127814606985.jpg

[Nicol Bolas]

Deathrite Shaman is printed in a set with mythic rares unlike Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf. By today's standards, Deathrite Shaman is an uncommon. The card is being hyped as a 1-mana planeswalker except it is not. The hype will die down, the card is comparable to Noble Hierarch, but where's Bant now and where are all those Green Zenith decks?

@OP, if the allied fetchlands are reprinted then prices will go down obviously. Supply > Demand. To illustrate, compare the price of Pithing Needle when it first came out to its price now. Also, see Birds of Paradise.

[bruizar]

You can't get every card with this mentality but you can catch the boat with some. Black Lotus was already a $300 when I started playing and back then my weekly allowance was $10 so I really couldn't practice the art of war but I certainly made up for it on many other staples. Many people here are complaining about cards like Jace even when they've been playing for 3-4 years. Jace was a $50 card ten months ago so if you missed it, it's a lesson to be learned. If you miss the Deathrite Shaman boat and it becomes the Dark Confidant or the new Tarmogoyf 4-5 years down the road certainly you don't know how to battle. And so on..

Exactly my point. How long did it take for liliana to take off? Or Daybreak coronet? Or serum visions and cryptic command? Or even Candelabra of Tawnos. I bought my candles for 25 a piece the week before RockLee top8'd 12 post and sold them for 170 a piece.Now, many people waited until after high tide started using candelabra. This is pretty recent. Antiquities has been around for ever. Same for the abyss. Bought 3 for 45 a year ago. Same for loyal retsiners at 5 euro each. If you read the art of war or the book of 5 rings or any other treatise on strategy, you will find that resource management is key to victory. There will always be sleeper cards. Perhaps gatecrash will provide the next speculation card, if u look closely enough. mtg continuously evolves. Justblook at the amount of t2 cards in legacy in the ast year. The unlikely candidates can provide the big opportunities to acquire resources that let you buy into legacy.

I dont mean to sound like a mean elitist at all so i hope i dont give anyone that impression, but it is people like spikeymikey that allow me to afford playing eternal. Take heed to the sayings of sun tzu and you'll be able to collect a valuable eternal collection too.

[Lemnear]

Flipped 7 playsets of DRS's for 220%+ after Sourcers tried to tell me how bad a "conditional bird of paradise" is. Didn't felt too bad :)

[bruizar]

Flipped 7 playsets of DRS's for 220%+ after Sourcers tried to tell me how bad a "conditional bird of paradise" is. Didn't felt too bad :)

Got my foil DRS's for 20 a piece. Didn't feel bad either. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the current price of foil hierarch is, and then using that as a baseline for what a better Hierarch could be.

[TsumiBand]

Okay, now I really know that /thread occurred. Invoking Sun Tzu in the same breath as talking about flipping DRS playsets? If we were talking about anything else - cars, real estate, you name it - this would sound like an outtake from Wall Street or Antitrust or something.

It's entirely fair to remember that we're dealing with games, made from flippin' cardboard. The Art of War is a sweet red herring, but at the end of the day, people who are even slightly outside that train of thought are going to step back and say, "Whatever, dude. It's a game." and quietly return to their preferred games where they buy in once and play for a lifetime. Poker, chess, Scrabble (assuming you don't lose any pieces), things that withstand the test of time and are seen and appreciated as games where the entry barrier is low but the skill barriers are what actually separate one kind of player from another. For anyone to stand up and say that there's a reasonable expectation that a Magic player needs to be as keen as a market speculator in order to skirt the sting of a monetary entry fee is just reinforcing the belief that you're trying to disprove.

I mean great, I'm glad you got your early playset of DRS, but again the thread is about allied fetchlands, things that haven't seen print for a decade or so. Striking while the iron is hot is irrelevant; the cards are already in the $30-$50 range and while in the long term it would make more sense to buy a playset tomorrow than in 2 years, that still admits an entry fee that is in the $100's range for 4 cards. As long as we're quoting ancient philosophizers and junk, Buddha says "Believe nothing anyone tells you - including me - unless after careful analysis you find you agree." I find I disagree with your hypothesis, on the basis that some irons went cold a long time ago and the window of opportunity is long since gone.

OP: If fetchlands were reprinted for Standard/Moderns I'd be pleased as punch. Wizards has been promising relevant reprints and with the notable exception of shocklands has only really done so by way of specialty product, which as evidenced by Commander's Arsenal is able to just be usurped and resold for singles which does nothing but dick with the MSRP of the actual product. For my part I wish the hell they'd start putting relevant reprints in the Core Sets, it did wonders for the price of Birds of Paradise (among other things, like the printing of Hierarch and Deathrite Shaman) but apparently there's a greater argument against, so the only other thing that could happen would be to see them in a block. Still, I'd appreciate it.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Also, comparing fetches being reprinted to what the current value of shocklands is at is short-sighted. Shocklands are *currently* being drafted everywhere. In four to six months, they'll start climbing in value again.

If fetch-lands were suddenly reprinted, there'd likely be huge hype and a surge in value, a rapid deflation, a relative stabilization until the set stopped being drafted, and then in a few months they'd start going back up.

Also, in addition to DRS, now is the time to pick up Abrupt Decays and Supreme Verdicts, while they're at their absolute lows.

[swoop]

In 4 months they get to Dragon's Maze packs where all 10 lands will be printed. Again

[xfxf]

Also, in addition to DRS, now is the time to pick up Abrupt Decays and Supreme Verdicts, while they're at their absolute lows.

I'm pretty sure this is not correct. They will rotate out of Standard some day and by then a ton will have been opened from boosters.

[Lemnear]

I'm pretty sure this is not correct. They will rotate out of Standard some day and by then a ton will have been opened from boosters.

I support this. It's an AWEFUL moment to pick up DRS's or AD's. Both are at their popular high's in Standard, Modern and Legacy. I would at least wait for rotation.

Monitoring MCM I can secure that DRS's price rose from ~4€ to ~11€ and AD dropped from ~9€ to ~5€. Despite AD was the chase-rare this seems ok to go for them for ~4€ a.p.

[SpikeyMikey]

No, he's right. We're done opening RTR, for the most part. It's all Gatecrash from here on out. That means we're currently at maximum saturation for those cards. They'll go up this summer and if they drop again when they rotate out (which Decay, at least, won't do), it won't be to where they are now.

[Lord Seth]

Also, comparing fetches being reprinted to what the current value of shocklands is at is short-sighted. Shocklands are *currently* being drafted everywhere. In four to six months, they'll start climbing in value again.

If fetch-lands were suddenly reprinted, there'd likely be huge hype and a surge in value, a rapid deflation, a relative stabilization until the set stopped being drafted, and then in a few months they'd start going back up.Why would the fetchlands being reprinted cause a surge in value? That certainly didn't happen with the shocklands. Looking at the prices for the original shocklands at blacklotusproject.com, there was no noticeable price jump at any point from when Return to Ravnica was announced (April) to when it was released. In fact, there was a small drop in price after Return to Ravnica was announced, though that may have been coincidental. I'm not sure exactly when the shocklands were officially revealed to be in the set, but it almost doesn't matter because I saw no price hikes that looked any larger than the normal up-and-down nature of the market between the set's announcement and release.
No, he's right. We're done opening RTR, for the most part. It's all Gatecrash from here on out. That means we're currently at maximum saturation for those cards. They'll go up this summer and if they drop again when they rotate out (which Decay, at least, won't do), it won't be to where they are now.Actually, that's not quite true. When Dragon's Maze is out, I believe we'll be drafting RTR-Gatecrash-Dragon's Maze for a while.

[xfxf]

Also drafters are not the only ones who are opening packs as longs as a set is print am I wrong? Lots of newbies snatch up whatever deck/booster is on display.

[Gui]

If they get reprinted, their price won't drop to lower than current levels before they rotate from T2. Modern fetches will drop in price after a bit, and maybe after rotation, so will allied. But I doubt it, and would say that the prices won't have a perspective of dropping any time soon.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Why would the fetchlands being reprinted cause a surge in value? That certainly didn't happen with the shocklands. Looking at the prices for the original shocklands at blacklotusproject.com, there was no noticeable price jump at any point from when Return to Ravnica was announced (April) to when it was released. In fact, there was a small drop in price after Return to Ravnica was announced, though that may have been coincidental. I'm not sure exactly when the shocklands were officially revealed to be in the set, but it almost doesn't matter because I saw no price hikes that looked any larger than the normal up-and-down nature of the market between the set's announcement and release.

I was referring to the value of reprints, not the original shocklands. They were 15-20 off the bat. Now they're 9-12.


I'm pretty sure this is not correct. They will rotate out of Standard some day and by then a ton will have been opened from boosters.

My store is selling Decays for 5.You can get Verdicts for anywhere from 3 to 4. If you honestly think they'll go below that, then go ahead and hold your breath, but it's not going to happen.

[TsumiBand]

My store is selling Decays for 5.You can get Verdicts for anywhere from 3 to 4. If you honestly think they'll go below that, then go ahead and hold your breath, but it's not going to happen.

I do find it a *little* hard to believe that uncounterability is worth more than good ol' Wrath of God's easier casting cost and "bury" effect. Counterspells haven't been the thing keeping WoG effects unplayable in older formats, and uncounterable in Modern is something of a redundancy as far as I can tell. Five for a Decay is pretty good though.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I do find it a *little* hard to believe that uncounterability is worth more than good ol' Wrath of God's easier casting cost and "bury" effect. Counterspells haven't been the thing keeping WoG effects unplayable in older formats, and uncounterable in Modern is something of a redundancy as far as I can tell. Five for a Decay is pretty good though.

Daze and FoW are exactly the reason Control has a rough time time with decks that go turn 1 Delver, sit behind a wall of counters and Wasteland.

Granted Wasteland is still a problem, but Verdict's ability to push through Spell Pierce, Daze, and FoW is more relevant than the anti-regeneration clause that matters against... what, exactly?

And despite Wrath of God's weakness against cheap counters, and being reprinted a million times, the cheapest copies are over 6 bucks. It's pretty obvious that in the long term, Supreme Verdict will go up sharply.

[Barook]

Granted Wasteland is still a problem, but Verdict's ability to push through Spell Pierce, Daze, and FoW is more relevant than the anti-regeneration clause that matters against... what, exactly?.
I think the only regenerator in the format that sees moderate play is Thrun.

[TsumiBand]

Daze and FoW are exactly the reason Control has a rough time time with decks that go turn 1 Delver, sit behind a wall of counters and Wasteland.

Granted Wasteland is still a problem, but Verdict's ability to push through Spell Pierce, Daze, and FoW is more relevant than the anti-regeneration clause that matters against... what, exactly?

And despite Wrath of God's weakness against cheap counters, and being reprinted a million times, the cheapest copies are over 6 bucks. It's pretty obvious that in the long term, Supreme Verdict will go up sharply.

Blue-based especially Delver-centered aggro hasn't been keeping WoG out of Legacy for 7 years though. I mean it took Terminus to get a WoG-ish effect to be taken seriously, and that's the real card Supreme Verdict is going to be compared against when playing around counters matters.

It used to be that regeneration wasn't worth considering in formats like Standard and old Extended, because Wrath just neutered it altogether. In Legacy Wrath has never really been a problem, and you would see people fuck around with Troll Ascetics and Thruns and other shit I can't think of right now, because regeneration might actually matter once in a while. Supreme Verdict is a harder-to-cast Wrath that still doesn't kill things as effectively as Wrath or the real threat Terminus, and still doesn't have the effect that WoG had on regeneration as a whole for years. I mean, like, what's it's going to come in against? Delver? Mmmmerfolk? I don't believe that there was never a UW deck that wouldn't have been happy to engage in a counterwar over a Wrath of God that has just gone totally unplayed all this time that wouldn't rather just play Miracles anyway. vOv

[Lemnear]

I think an important fact in the WoG-discussion is undermined: creatures became more and more powerful.

WotC tacks spell-like effects onto every creature and push their P/T so far that most aggressive creature Decks of todays Legacy can offer a lethal board State by Turn 4. A WoG-Player which entered the Game on the draw likely Lost the race off the diceroll. Wrath of God is too slow for todays standards, simple as that. Terminus is a 2cc spell in most cases. Discussing WoG vs. Tempo.dec is off imo, it's like picking on Deed vs. Ramp

WotC considers Counterspell as too good, keeps wraths @ 4+ mana (aside from Terminus obv) while doubling and tripling the creature powerlevel. Playing Wrath after creatures with etb-abilities hit the field is carddisadvantage most of the time.

[TsumiBand]

I think an important fact in the WoG-discussion is undermined: creatures became more and more powerful.

WotC tacks spell-like effects onto every creature and push their P/T so far that most aggressive creature Decks of todays Legacy can offer a lethal board State by Turn 4. A WoG-Player which entered the Game on the draw likely Lost the race off the diceroll. Wrath of God is too slow for todays standards, simple as that. Terminus is a 2cc spell in most cases. Discussing WoG vs. Tempo.dec is off imo, it's like picking on Deed vs. Ramp

WotC considers Counterspell as too good, keeps wraths @ 4+ mana (aside from Terminus obv) while doubling and tripling the creature powerlevel. Playing Wrath after creatures with etb-abilities hit the field is carddisadvantage most of the time.

I don't think you're necessarily disagreeing with me, but just to add something to the discussion -

Think back even a few years ago when the most efficient and/or prevalent aggro deck was Goblins; what the fuck did Goblins care if people Wrath the board? Shucks, I guess I'll just drop a Ringleader and draw into a bunch more Goblins, nice 5-for-1, let's see if you can do it again. There's a reason Goblin Recruiter was never legal in Legacy. Even before Zoo, even before people knew to play Tarmogoyf in fucking Threshold, Wrath of God was never any good in this format. Like even Angel Stompy made it less worthwhile by just playing equipment cards; how good is Wrath when the next creature can just pick up Sword of Fire and Ice, or a Jitte with counters, and just pick up where the previous board position left off? By now Stoneblade should have shown everyone what removal is worth if it doesn't deal with the whole threat, and WoG doesn't touch equipment.

Wrath of God was just never that great in Legacy, it just wasn't. Without digging super-deep some quick Google searches turn up some randoms that are still holding a torch for goddamn Landstill that run WoG as a 2-of in the sideboard; I don't want to overspeculate but it feels like that was probably a "fuck it, it's 3am and I'm sick of testing" include for the sideboard. Unless I have a giant gap in my memory WoG has never had a strong showing in Legacy. It had to turn into Terminus to be worth playing; by extension, it had to be a sweet combo with Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top to be worth even thinking about. And then, that's probably more to do with the strength of win conditions like Entreat the Angels; there's something to be said for tucking your opponent's permanents for W and then derping 12 power with evasion into play for 3WW.

[Maximus]

I hope any number of staples get reprinted. Every set of Polluted Deltas that get sold is another opponent I get to play against. The value of the cards isn't worth nearly as much as the enjoyment I get from playing or I would have cashed out by now.

[xfxf]

My store is selling Decays for 5.You can get Verdicts for anywhere from 3 to 4. If you honestly think they'll go below that, then go ahead and hold your breath, but it's not going to happen.

I don't think they'll go lower but I think they will retain value, and if not they will be around these prices when they rotate out of Standard. I don't see a reason why the price should be any higher than this when they rotate out, there's already enough demand for them in eternal formats.