PDA

View Full Version : [SCD] Humility



Barook
02-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Humility

Why doesn't it see more play now that the format slowed down? Most decks (except maybe Goblins, Elves and Merfolk) nowadays are somewhat creature-light and rely on stuff like Delver, Goyf and utility creatures to carry their game.

Let's have a look at what it does:
- it shuts down fatties and utility creatures alike
- it's Abrupt Decay-proof
- there are tons of ways to make its effect asymmetrical, e.g. Equipment (especially Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull), token generators like Lingering Souls, Zealous Persecution...

Obvious downsides are the cost (:2::w::w: isn't easy), being vulnerable to stuff like Spell Pierce, not being able to stop Cascade, troubles against swarm decks and being dead in certain match-ups.

xfxf
02-04-2013, 04:45 PM
I just put one in m esperblade sideboard but couldn't test it since the Saturday event didn't fire. I also think that it should be pretty strong when it resolves. After all I can shoot out more 1/1 with my lingering souls than the 1/1s they can cast or S&T into play.

Koby
02-04-2013, 04:45 PM
Obvious downsides are the cost (:2::w::w: isn't easy), being vulnerable to stuff like Spell Pierce, not being able to stop Cascade, troubles against swarm decks and being dead in certain match-ups.

Mostly these. It is a great answer against Show & Tell however.

It also fits well with Elspeth by making endless streams of Tokens.

ahg113
02-04-2013, 04:47 PM
It's been my experience that Humility doesn't win games. For whatever reason, the 4 cmc spot, and arguably the 3 cmc should be game winners. At best, Humility is an excellent "lose less" card. The amount of resources needed to get maximum benefit from Humility (equipment, banner effects) don't necessarily increase the odds of winning when Humility is not in play either.

Playing Humility gives the direction for the deck to be creatureless or creature light. Germ tokens and man-lands are the only obvious benefactors with a Humility in play. At that point, what deck wants to be playing/splashing white, without creatures, wants to neuter creatures, and has a win-con that is spell/artifact/man-land based?

I like the card a lot, think it's under played, but have no idea where it should be shining.

Cheers,
Goblin Trenches and Rise of the Hobgoblins didn't get there...

bruizar
02-04-2013, 04:58 PM
It's been my experience that Humility doesn't win games. For whatever reason, the 4 cmc spot, and arguably the 3 cmc should be game winners. At best, Humility is an excellent "lose less" card. The amount of resources needed to get maximum benefit from Humility (equipment, banner effects) don't necessarily increase the odds of winning when Humility is not in play either..

somebody needs to reread lingering souls.

Viridia
02-04-2013, 05:09 PM
It's been my experience that Humility doesn't win games. For whatever reason, the 4 cmc spot, and arguably the 3 cmc should be game winners. At best, Humility is an excellent "lose less" card. The amount of resources needed to get maximum benefit from Humility (equipment, banner effects) don't necessarily increase the odds of winning when Humility is not in play either.

Playing Humility gives the direction for the deck to be creatureless or creature light. Germ tokens and man-lands are the only obvious benefactors with a Humility in play. At that point, what deck wants to be playing/splashing white, without creatures, wants to neuter creatures, and has a win-con that is spell/artifact/man-land based?

I like the card a lot, think it's under played, but have no idea where it should be shining.

Cheers,
Goblin Trenches and Rise of the Hobgoblins didn't get there...


I'd start at UWx Landstill ;)

ahg113
02-04-2013, 05:15 PM
somebody needs to reread lingering souls.

So you're going to wait until you get Humility into play to cast Lingering Souls, when your one card will put 4 power onto the field. You can do that 4 times for 16 power. And the opponent won't have any easy answer for 1/1 tokens, such as echoing truth, pernicious deed, engineered explosives, engineered plague, illness in the ranks, darkness, maelstrom pulse, detention sphere, any wrath/sweeper effect, etc.

So in your fantasy land, where Humility and Lingering Souls wrecks shop, can you provide a deck list? Seeing as how I've tried Lingering Souls with Humility and it didn't get me jack squat, I wanna know what part of the flavor text I was missing that would've turned the tide in my favor.

Or perhaps you can not be a tool.

ahg113
02-04-2013, 05:18 PM
I'd start at UWx Landstill ;)

Is that advice for the OP, since he's the one looking for a good Humility.dec?

If Landstill is a viable deck option, someone should necro a thread related to it.

Barook
02-04-2013, 05:28 PM
So you're going to wait until you get Humility into play to cast Lingering Souls, when your one card will put 4 power onto the field. You can do that 4 times for 16 power. And the opponent won't have any easy answer for 1/1 tokens, such as echoing truth, pernicious deed, engineered explosives, engineered plague, illness in the ranks, darkness, maelstrom pulse, detention sphere, any wrath/sweeper effect, etc.

So in your fantasy land, where Humility and Lingering Souls wrecks shop, can you provide a deck list? Seeing as how I've tried Lingering Souls with Humility and it didn't get me jack squat, I wanna know what part of the flavor text I was missing that would've turned the tide in my favor.

Or perhaps you can not be a tool.
While Lingering Souls is fine and dandy with Humility, I'm more of a fan of the SFM/Batterskull package.

T2 SFM
T3 Batterskull
T4 Swing, Humility, enjoy your 5/5 beater against a bunch of wimps

Once you have enough resources gathered and there's no risk of it being countered, you could even bounce it to get vigilance and lifelink back.

alphastryk
02-04-2013, 05:28 PM
Humility is an excellent control sideboard card, but the only deck I would want to maindeck it in is armageddon stax which has all kinds of other issues. It does play excellently with Elspeth and Batterskull though.

frogczar
02-04-2013, 05:37 PM
This card is great in a B/W token deck. I've had a lot of success with it.

Awesome effect is awesome. There's nothing else like it in the game. It hoses a lot of strategies and it will only get better as more and more powerful creatures are created and abused.

The card is underplayed in my opinion.

mini1337s
02-04-2013, 05:54 PM
It's certainly a reasonable inclusion in U/W Miracles decks, but as a one-of (for use with E Tutor).
I'm a huge fan of it in the sideboard, and run it in my Esper Stoneblade sideboard, normally as a 2-of. I bring it in versuses creature combo decks, like Elves, SnT decks, as an Oblivion Ring-style replacement, and decks that try to play fair creatures like Maverick, Junk, or Jund.

Iron Buddha
02-04-2013, 09:34 PM
Humility is an absolute gamebreaker. But I think the problem is that it harms too much, that is, there just isnt a deck left that Humility is actually not killing,
a deck that can abuse it to its fullest potential.

and of course it is just underutilized.

Finn
02-05-2013, 10:51 AM
I have R/W Land Tax that had been running 3 Humility and 4 Tutors to fetch it. At first I used it constantly. But then I began to use it less and less until I finally took it out. It is not even in the sideboard currently. You still have 1/1 creatures to deal with. Are you going to STP them? You have to Terminus them anyway, so Humility just does not make the cut. Yeah, it is the nuclear option against some decks, but those are the decks you beat anyway. That's the kind of thing you only get to know after actually playing it for awhile.

dsck
02-05-2013, 05:28 PM
Jace, Architect of Thought + Humility :cool:

ahg113
02-05-2013, 05:32 PM
Jace, Architect of Thought + Humility :cool:

Thunderstaff isn't cute compared to puppies, but it's the kind of combo that makes Humility inspire "living the dream" type moments.

Oiolosse
02-05-2013, 08:08 PM
Thunderstaff isn't cute compared to puppies, but it's the kind of combo that makes Humility inspire "living the dream" type moments.

Yes, there seems to be tons of 'living the dream' combos with Humility but somebody above mentioned Zealous Persecution. That sounds pretty hot. I still wouldn't run Humility MD but in a token-bent Deadguy I can easily see it in the board.

twndomn
02-06-2013, 03:47 AM
Miracle is somewhat hesitant on it because it shuts off Clique and Snapcaster. A better question is:
If my deck can find Humility, why doesn't my deck just find Moat?

There are occasions where I still die to many many 1/1 goblins when Moat could have done me better while my flying angles gain some life for me. Of course, one can argue Moat will not stop Siege-gang commander from killing, but that's why you have spot removal.

In short, Humility is a cheap alternative to Moat since it's more affordable, and is randomly good in some match-ups, like Sneak and Show.

bruizar
02-06-2013, 04:27 AM
So you're going to wait until you get Humility into play to cast Lingering Souls, when your one card will put 4 power onto the field. You can do that 4 times for 16 power.

Errr. You don't wait until you get a Humility. You just cast lingering souls because it is a good card on its own. I don't know where you got the impression (read:assumption) from that Lingering Souls requires Humility to be good, but I guess you haven't been paying a lot of attention to tournament magic since Dark Ascension was released.



And the opponent won't have any easy answer for 1/1 tokens, such as echoing truth, pernicious deed, engineered explosives, engineered plague, illness in the ranks, darkness, maelstrom pulse, detention sphere, any wrath/sweeper effect, etc.

So, apparently you also neglected to pay attention during Magic-n00b-Class 101. Lingering Souls has flashback and you can sandbag the card by keeping it in your graveyard so you have some gas AFTER a sweeper occurs. I heard this is really good. Maybe you should stop fiddling around with your pauper deck and start paying attention during class.



So in your fantasy land, where Humility and Lingering Souls wrecks shop, can you provide a deck list? Seeing as how I've tried Lingering Souls with Humility and it didn't get me jack squat, I wanna know what part of the flavor text I was missing that would've turned the tide in my favor.

In my opinion Lingering Souls wrecks. In my opinion Humility also wrecks. In my opinion they wreck even better together. Perhaps not running a deck with 4 Humility, 4 Lingering Souls, 4 Swords to Plowshares and 48 plains is a good starting point. Oh, and maybe you should try to resolve lingering souls before you find your humility for a change.


Or perhaps you can not be a tool.
Right, cause you ain't

ahg113
02-06-2013, 09:21 AM
Errr. You don't wait until you get a Humility. You just cast lingering souls because it is a good card on its own. I don't know where you got the impression (read:assumption) from that Lingering Souls requires Humility to be good, but I guess you haven't been paying a lot of attention to tournament magic since Dark Ascension was released.


So, apparently you also neglected to pay attention during Magic-n00b-Class 101. Lingering Souls has flashback and you can sandbag the card by keeping it in your graveyard so you have some gas AFTER a sweeper occurs. I heard this is really good. Maybe you should stop fiddling around with your pauper deck and start paying attention during class.


In my opinion Lingering Souls wrecks. In my opinion Humility also wrecks. In my opinion they wreck even better together. Perhaps not running a deck with 4 Humility, 4 Lingering Souls, 4 Swords to Plowshares and 48 plains is a good starting point. Oh, and maybe you should try to resolve lingering souls before you find your humility for a change.


Right, cause you ain't

Thanks for the insight. I guess neither one of us has anything useful to add.

Scott
02-11-2014, 04:23 PM
I'm trying to think of a home for Humility in a different way, and thinking of creatures that "work"/can "work" even with it out. So far I've got Painter's Servant, Magus of the Moon, and things like Batterskull and Mishra's Factory. Am I missing any Legacy-playable cards?

Mewens
02-11-2014, 04:48 PM
It's a hard card to justify. Terminus and Rest in Peace both more-or-less do everything it does, and both cost much less mana. I have a singleton in my side in Enchantress to deal with Sneak and Show decks -- the only place it really shines, in my opinion, since it turns off Grizzlebees -- but every other creature-based problem I run into either is better solved by other cards (DRS and goyf are solved by RIP, which is also a combo piece; "things that attack" is better solved by Sphere / Confinement / Elephant Grass; annoying hate-bears are better handled by judicious O-Rings, etc.)

Even in something like landstill, Humility's awful close to the "too cute" line; Terminus is still a thing, and it's not like you won't be running some form of Scroll Rack / SDT / Brainstorm, etc., in that deck.

I suspect that, if there was a deck that could really abuse it, it'd probably a) feature a lot of token generation, and b) would likely use Intangible Virtue at some point in its development. Some form of BW tokens comes to mind; a midrange deck that generates small, disposable dudes in which Humility would lock down a game, rather than stall. (... speaking of too cute and BW, I kinda like the interaction with Tidehollow Sculler and Humility.)

TheInfamousBearAssassin
02-11-2014, 05:15 PM
Terminus and Rest in Peace both more-or-less do everything it does


I feel like most people itt have never actually seen Humility enter play.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
02-11-2014, 05:17 PM
To answer the question:

Because card and deck building decisions are not made in a vacuum of pure reason, but respond to trends of what's popular or what's won recently for the most part, and Humility is simply one of the potentially powerful cards that isn't heavily tested, of which there are many (and this is true especially of cards with higher mana costs.)

It might also not be very good in the current meta, but this is not the primary reason why it doesn't see play, the primary reason is no one is interested in trying.

thecrav
02-11-2014, 06:12 PM
I'm trying to think of a home for Humility in a different way, and thinking of creatures that "work"/can "work" even with it out. So far I've got Painter's Servant, Magus of the Moon, and things like Batterskull and Mishra's Factory. Am I missing any Legacy-playable cards?

Sounds like you want to run the Layer 7B deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_trading_stax_layer_7.html)

Scott
02-11-2014, 08:23 PM
Sounds like you want to run the Layer 7B deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_trading_stax_layer_7.html)

Ha, classic deck.

Mewens
02-12-2014, 12:30 AM
C'mon, IBA, you can do better than to sidestep the issue like that. Of course most players aren't pushing the bleeding edge; that's always been true, for every format. But you've been here long enough to know that there's plenty of bright and inquisitive minds who test out all kinds of crazy brews in Legacy. And, isn't Humility exactly the kind of card that draws those types in? A unique effect that breaks all kinds of rules?

In any case, I'll stand by my assertion that control generally wants Terminus instead of Humility -- in miracles, the only real white-heavy long-term control deck in the format that can afford to turn off critter abilities, W to wipe the board now is generally better than 4: Forcefield the board except equipment. Similarly, RIP is a better generic hate card; it's far cheaper, hits many of the same notes that Humility does ('goyf, mongoose and DRS, right?) while having more general utility. (I'll grant that green is waning in the format, which makes RIP a less-powerful anti-dude option.)

But the real problem, imo, is Stoneforge Mystic. (And, yeah, I get this is all theorycrafting. I haven't seriously tested Humility in at least three years; RIP has almost completely replaced it in my enchantress decks.) SFM is 2 mana cheaper and ignores most of Humility's effects (Batterskull's a 5/5 vigilance lifelinker under Humility, Jitte wrecks all the dudes under Humility, Sword of x and y is a 3/3 protection-from-you dork w/ bennies, etc.), and she's in heavy rotation at the moment.

Anyway, I can imagine that there's a deck where Humility will be face-wrecking. And we're in a weird place -- as creatures continue their upward climb, Humility will only become more potent. It's just that, at 4 mana, it's more of an end-game card, rather than the kind of stall-the-board card we're used to thinking of it as.

Echelon
02-12-2014, 02:38 AM
With a little commitment you might be able to drop it on T2 quite often. Think of sol-lands and Chrome Moxes. And with that kind of manabase, you might also want to run Chalice of the Void in the maindeck. Either you drop CotV on T1 to slow your opponent down until you can drop Humility or you just drop Humility anyway on T2.

Also, to further your mana development you might want to splash green for Crop Rotation. Rotate a Flagstones of Trokair and you're up an extra land (perhaps find a next Flagstone + a sol-land), speeding up your mana development quite nicely.

YamiJoey
02-12-2014, 03:02 AM
I play it in control and it's absurd. It's good against TNN amd Show and Tell especially, alongside Reanimator etc. It's also a tutorable 4-drop, and it's even good against little Creatures decks like DnT, Goblins, and Elves, as 1-mana 1/1's aren't as scary as 1-mana actual guys.

I have also had it in a Bant build with Shardless Agent, Stoneforge Mystic, and Thoptor Sword. In a world of 1/1's, the person with the most wins.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
02-12-2014, 07:34 AM
C'mon, IBA, you can do better than to sidestep the issue like that. Of course most players aren't pushing the bleeding edge; that's always been true, for every format. But you've been here long enough to know that there's plenty of bright and inquisitive minds who test out all kinds of crazy brews in Legacy. And, isn't Humility exactly the kind of card that draws those types in? A unique effect that breaks all kinds of rules?

Uh.

I think you are presuming an awful lot about what I know.

There's actually very few people that are committed long-term to rigorously testing and pushing viable decks outside of the bounds of currently popular archetypes. And fewer who are good at it.

I mean like there was this crazy moment when I was watching an SCG Open the other week because Bob Huang was in the top 8, and the commentors were talking about like Team America or Canadian Thresh or something as a "generic" Legacy deck.

Of course back in 2005, you had people calling the decks that would become the u/g tempo decks "Miracle Gro." I remember Adam, who was relatively positive, still talking about it like, "Portent? Daze? Nimble Mongoose? It's no joke, folks!"

People pretty routinely underestimate the amount of dedication it takes to actually break ground in Legacy, including learning how to play against multiple decks and actually piloting the deck through numerous tournaments, getting others on board to help test and develop strategies.

That's why you don't see much actual movement in archetypes over time, and most people drift to the same circle-jerky echo chamber SCG grinder decks with 1x Vendilion Clique etc..


In any case, I'll stand by my assertion that control generally wants Terminus instead of Humility

The two cards aren't actually at all in the same role.



But the real problem, imo, is Stoneforge Mystic. (And, yeah, I get this is all theorycrafting. I haven't seriously tested Humility in at least three years; RIP has almost completely replaced it in my enchantress decks.) SFM is 2 mana cheaper and ignores most of Humility's effects (Batterskull's a 5/5 vigilance lifelinker under Humility, Jitte wrecks all the dudes under Humility, Sword of x and y is a 3/3 protection-from-you dork w/ bennies, etc.), and she's in heavy rotation at the moment.

You know you can play the two in the same deck, right?


Anyway, I can imagine that there's a deck where Humility will be face-wrecking. And we're in a weird place -- as creatures continue their upward climb, Humility will only become more potent. It's just that, at 4 mana, it's more of an end-game card, rather than the kind of stall-the-board card we're used to thinking of it as.

I don't know what you mean by this. Humility has always been and been viewed as a back-breaker.

kiblast
02-12-2014, 09:33 AM
You know you can play the two in the same deck, right?



And is incredibly synergistic as well!

FTW
02-12-2014, 09:55 AM
When I first read the thread title, I thought to myself "The Source is no place for Humility"

Tammit67
02-12-2014, 12:35 PM
SFM is 2 mana cheaper and ignores most of Humility's effects (Batterskull's a 5/5 vigilance lifelinker under Humility, Jitte wrecks all the dudes under Humility, Sword of x and y is a 3/3 protection-from-you dork w/ bennies, etc.), and she's in heavy rotation at the moment.

Depends when the equip was in relation to when humility entered the battlefield. The creature doesn't automatically have those abilities.

Humility should see more play, the card is ridiculously strong and creates games states a lot of decks aren't prepared to deal with. There are several circumstances where it functions completely different from terminus, and with those in mind I'm going to agree with IBA here.

Tempus
02-12-2014, 01:08 PM
The abilities depend on the order in case of batterskull and sword of x and y, but the p/t is always correct. It also doesn't affect jitte.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mewens
02-12-2014, 02:04 PM
The only abilities on the three big equipment groups hit by Humility are vigilance, lifelink and protection. Everything else on swords and Jitte are always on, and I think we can all agree that, if everyone's pegged you to Humility, they'll try to engineer a situation in which their equipment is doing what they need it to do (ie, if they need protection: x, they'll re-equip it after the Humility if at all possible.)

@IBA -- My point wasn't that everyone's breaking the format every week; my point is that there are people out there who are constantly tinkering and attacking the format at new angles. It doesn't matter that most of us are schlubs; you only need a few players to champion a strong idea before it becomes canon. (I mean, didn't The Source's own Finn champion D+T and pioneer Chalice aggro? Even if you think new printings are what made D+T viable, don't you think 5ish years of pushing Karakas and Mangara provided a fertile ground for its evolution?)

And yeah, you're right -- when Miracle-Gro was rocking Quirion Dryad and Werebear, it looked like a pile, but it was amazing. And here's the funny thing that underlines my point -- it wasn't playing Daze! That came along much later; I was an early adopter on Gro, and the early arguments were much more about Mystic Enforcer vs. Fledgling Dragon and whether a red splash was better than Meddling Mage. Without someone digging into (what seemed like) obviously terrible counterspells, I might still be playing 4-mana conditional threats.

Re: SFM in the same deck as Humility: You certainly can do that, and it's probably a natural place to begin brewing. It's still worth noting that you'll be seeing a ton of other SFMs, and that they directly undermine your plan. I mean, what's Humility supposed to be battling, exactly? Opposing duders, right? And if many duder decks are running SFM ... it just seems like we're jumping through a lot of hoops to get everyone back to parity, doesn't it?

Quick edit: And it seems I'm misunderstood here re: Terminus and Humility. My point is that, in the existing classic control deck – Miracles – Humility and Terminus would be doing the same thing: directly nixing existing dudes. Terminus suits that deck's needs _much_ better than Humility; while both cards give you a cushion of time, Humility doesn't protect Jace 2.0 and it puts you off the powerful creature plan of Venser / Clique. Of course Humility can be more than a stall tactic when it's in the right shell, but existing control archetypes simply can't use it that way.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
02-12-2014, 10:02 PM
@IBA -- My point wasn't that everyone's breaking the format every week; my point is that there are people out there who are constantly tinkering and attacking the format at new angles. It doesn't matter that most of us are schlubs; you only need a few players to champion a strong idea before it becomes canon. (I mean, didn't The Source's own Finn champion D+T and pioneer Chalice aggro? Even if you think new printings are what made D+T viable, don't you think 5ish years of pushing Karakas and Mangara provided a fertile ground for its evolution?)

No. Haven't almost all the lists cut Mangara by now? I think that was an accident. And no, Faerie Stompy was like the third iteration of Chalice Aggro. Also, it is not a good deck and probably never was. If it was it was for a very brief window of time. Chalice aggro is probably a good example of a niche archetype that needed people really dedicated to pushing and developing it, but given that it's never quite panned out that just highlights how difficult this is.


And yeah, you're right -- when Miracle-Gro was rocking Quirion Dryad and Werebear, it looked like a pile, but it was amazing. And here's the funny thing that underlines my point -- it wasn't playing Daze!

Oh my fucking God you better not try to lecture me on the history of Threshold.

No. The first good lists of UGx Thresh lists were running Daze. Not Quirion Dryad though.


That came along much later; I was an early adopter on Gro, and the early arguments were much more about Mystic Enforcer vs. Fledgling Dragon and whether a red splash was better than Meddling Mage. Without someone digging into (what seemed like) obviously terrible counterspells, I might still be playing 4-mana conditional threats.

Right, it wasn't good until the Hatfields and Ian MacInnes tinkered around and found cards like Daze and Portent. People still thought it was just Miracle Gro for a while though.


Re: SFM in the same deck as Humility: You certainly can do that, and it's probably a natural place to begin brewing. It's still worth noting that you'll be seeing a ton of other SFMs, and that they directly undermine your plan. I mean, what's Humility supposed to be battling, exactly? Opposing duders, right? And if many duder decks are running SFM ... it just seems like we're jumping through a lot of hoops to get everyone back to parity, doesn't it?

I guess if you're also running a bunch of TNNs and Snapcaster Mages.


Quick edit: And it seems I'm misunderstood here re: Terminus and Humility. My point is that, in the existing classic control deck – Miracles – Humility and Terminus would be doing the same thing: directly nixing existing dudes. Terminus suits that deck's needs _much_ better than Humility; while both cards give you a cushion of time, Humility doesn't protect Jace 2.0 and it puts you off the powerful creature plan of Venser / Clique. Of course Humility can be more than a stall tactic when it's in the right shell, but existing control archetypes simply can't use it that way.

I am pretty sure Humility is more powerful as a plan than Clique. It's not a direct answer to particular creatures though, you still need other cards to deal with them, it just means creatures can no longer break the balance of power effectively.

Mewens
02-13-2014, 01:07 AM
Excellent, so we can agree that there are people who play around in the format. That's all I was trying to say -- that there are a few dedicated people who play constantly AND try new things out. You're 100% right that metagames aren't completely efficient, that they don't happen in a purely logical vacuum, but that doesn't mean that metagames are completely devoid of new ideas. That's all I was trying to say (on that front, at least). People are innovating, even if it's an uphill climb, so "It's because of the sheeples!" simply doesn't hold that much water for me.

On the original topic -- if you were to start somewhere with Humility, where would it go? I'm still pretty sure that Humility doesn't have a natural home in any of the current decks -- I still don't see it operating well in a deck like Miracles, and I'm confident it's subpar (or niche) in any deck that wants to run Energy Field or Solitary Confinement. So where does that leave us? I've already volunteered some kind of BW tokens shell for it, where you're minimally affected; others have suggested some kind of neo-Landstill. Where would you start?

Scott
02-14-2014, 02:41 PM
On the original topic -- if you were to start somewhere with Humility, where would it go? I'm still pretty sure that Humility doesn't have a natural home in any of the current decks -- I still don't see it operating well in a deck like Miracles, and I'm confident it's subpar (or niche) in any deck that wants to run Energy Field or Solitary Confinement. So where does that leave us? I've already volunteered some kind of BW tokens shell for it, where you're minimally affected; others have suggested some kind of neo-Landstill. Where would you start?

I just thought of something that sounds fun, sort of a lovechild between a prison shell--Dutch Stax with Humility/Moat--and a token deck like this (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=9230&iddeck=67430).

Token Stompy

// 4-ofs
Humility
Intangible Virtue
Chalice of the Void
Lingering Souls
Ancient Tomb

// ~3-ofs
Trinisphere
Batterskull
Chrome Mox
City of Traitors
Spectral Procession

// ~2-ofs
Umezawa's Jitte
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Zealous Persecution

// ~1-ofs
Bitterblossom

Scrublands, Marsh Flats, blah blah blah

// Possibilities and/or Stupid Ideas
Idyllic Tutor
Ratchet Bomb
Vault of the Archangel
Eldrazi Monument
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
The Abyss
Wasteland
Elspeth Tirel
Gideon Jura
Timely Reinforcements


Kinda wish I had a way to attack their mana base to complement CotV/3sphere...Contamination would be so bad. Wasteland might be OK.