Opponent Tempo Threshold

[Fatal]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to post some ideas about other look on Tempo Threshold, concept is to get value from opponent filled graveyard, you will ask why, a lot of strategy depends on their graveyard, filling it is the last thing what you want to do vs them. Anyway there is two reasons:
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m12/80.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/m13/57.jpg

Basically Ancestral Recall and 1-mana Tombstalker in legacy, but how you can fill so fast opponent graveyard ?

Easy way:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/zen/41.jpghttp://magiccards.info/query?q=thought+scour&v=card&s=cname

So here is first list:


4 Jace's Phantasm
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Archive Trap
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Thought Scour
3 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Visions of Beyond
4 Tarmogoyf
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Submerge
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental


Its basically RUG shell with some changes, first of all it can be very implosive - what is better then turn 1 Delver ? Turn 1 Tombstalker, Card Disadvantage from Forces and Traps all refilled by Visions in late game - Traps after get the aim - after fill "Threshold" for Visions and Phantasm always can be fuel for Force of Will.

Have a nice testing and fun ;).

PS: Milling Tendrils vs ANT was priceless :]

[alphastryk]

You are already running stifle, so would it be unreasonable to work in phyrexian dreadnaught and vision charm to enable both dreadnaught and jace's phantasm?

[nevilshute]

Man, this looks awesome! Couple of questions:

1) How do you avoid just folding to Dredge/Reanimate? Edit: Nevermind, I guess there are decent solutions such as Grafdigger's Cage

2) Do you find you have enough to turn on Visions of Beyond? 20 cards are a lot and Archive Trap is the only real "hard hitter" in terms of milling.

3) How well do you handle potential GY hosers?

I'd also like to second the suggestion of adding Vision Charm and Phyrexian Dreadnaught

[wcm8]

There are a few problems I see with this approach:

-Individually the cards are extremely weak. Phantasm's 'threshold' is much more difficult to achieve than say, Nimble Mongoose. You're not guaranteed to have Archive Trap at the appropriate time to cast it. Visions of Beyond is terrible until the lategame, which is where tempo strategies in general are at their weakest. A 5/5 flyer as your endgame isn't even that great compares to Jace, Batterskull, 8/8 KotR, etc.
-By filling your opponent's graveyard, you are sometimes helping them enact their own strategy. Imagine facing off against Dredge or Reanimator with this deck. Lingering Souls will be active, and snapcasters will suddenly have a bunch of targets. Or opposing Tombstalkers or Mongeese for that matter.
-If you're going to rely on a combination of individually weak/useless cards to win the game when played in combination, why not just play an actual combo deck?

For every time you get to live the dream of 'trap, trap, visions, phantasm', you're more often going to be stuck mucking around with a bunch of do-nothings while your opponent pummels you with 'real' cards.

[gkraigher]

I think this would be better as a modern deck.

[Fatal]

End of testing:

- Deck can be explosive but its too random, individual cards are very week without combination of them.
- Filling opponent graveyard open options but mostly only for your opponent.
- Tempo shell looks good but its to unstable to work.

About modern version - yes you can try but remember that Modern runes less fetchlands and have much more aggro/middle aggro meta.

[Barook]

What about Sword of Body and Mind? Should go very well with your evasive beaters.

[Zupponn]

This seems very similar to what you're going for:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=49131

Maybe there are some ideas in that list to play around with.

[Norm]

You've essentially created a three-card-combo that does nothing but offset your self-inflicted card disadvantage and nets you an above-average beater earlier than intended. As stated previously, by not running Mongoose, all of your threats die to spot removal and open you up to massive tempo-losses (ironic, I know).

If you really want to play with phantasm (it's kinda sweet) then why not just insert one or two into a tradition RUG deck? They may help offset some difficulty presented by other "fair" decks that survive the early game by upping your threat density.