Astral Slide

[ZimAshe]

So a long, long time ago. In a galaxy far, far away I used to play this GW extended deck that abused Astral Slide. So I got to thinking, "Is there any chance that this card can become viable in Legacy?"

For referance all those years ago this is the list i played:

GW Astral Slide:


4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Eternal Witness
4 Loxodon Hierarch

4 Astral Slide
4 Renewed Faith
4 Gilded Light
2 Decree of Justice
4 Wrath of God
1 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Life from the Loam

4 Secluded Steppe
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Nantuko Monastery
4 Temple Garden
6 Plains
4 Forest


Again, this is a super old list but I am looking to update it and maybe make it playable again.

The main premise behind the deck is to cycle through your deck unitl you can get to and resolve an Astral Slide. Then use that to control your opponents creatures by sliding them in and out to prevent attacks and get value off of sliding your own creatures in and out (see Eternal Witness and Loxodon Hierarch )

The main card advantage engine in the deck was using Life from the Loam to recur your Cycling lands in order to maintain control of the baord.

So what's a good way to update the list and make the deck at least semi competative?

I think Astral Slide should certainly be a 4 of with out question. And the Loam/Cycle land engine is too good to not take advantage of. Green and White also have a ton of value creatures that could fit into the deck.

could an updated List look like this?

GW Astral Slide 2013


4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Eternal Witness
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Restoration Angel

4 Astral Slide
3 Path to Exile
4 Renewed Faith
4 Gilded Light
1 Wrath of God
3 Life from the Loam
3 Mox Diamond

4 Secluded steppe
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
5 Plains
3 Forest


I look forward to everyone's thoughts.

[Kich867]

Here's the problem I have with these astral slide lists I've seen posted here--they're trying to be cute. Don't be cute, just kill them. You have an enchantment that can effectively spam-exile your opponents creatures--cycle lands draw you a card AND remove something from your path.

Why even bother running Eternal Witness? To get back what? What bombs are you slamming down every turn that even warrant that in your list you know?

Why not run Knight of the Reliquary, exile their entire line, and just beat them to death because you're cycling / dredging loam all over the damn place.

This is a deck archetype I definitely want to invest more time into since Astral Slide actually has several super relevant applications--namely, Sneak and Tell scoops to it. They pretty much can't win unless they omniscience combo you, otherwise Emrakul and Griselbrand just won't do it.

Resto Angel is at least reasonable because it's out of bolt and decay range, it beats delver in the air, and you can save a dude with it.

I'd rather see Goyfs and Resto Angels and Deathrite Shamans. The 8 white cycle cards you're running are all pretty bad, and I would try to find better routes to do this / better cards there and run fewer cycle lands.

[Wincheee]

Yesterday i was talking with a friend about Astral Slide AND LIGHTNING LIIFT, the red enchantment is too good in this current meta,all are abusing punishing fire,well,i think rift is a better solution to thiis current meta...

[igri_is_a_bk]

Your only choice for "free" cyclers are Street Wraith and Edge of Autumn, which I found important so you can actually use the Slide the turn it enters play. Edge works really well with Flagstones of Trokair and the cycle lands in case they had to be used for mana in the first couple turns. These are the types of interactions that make your deck more fluid without trying to get too cute. Edge is on the edge(:eyebrow:) of playable, but with KotR, you could actually tutor up the Flagstones since he'll likely be on defense until you can clear their board.

Why Path instead of StP?

Treetop Village, Nantuko Monastery, or Mishra's Factory look pretty with the Loam engine.

Seems slow enough that Elspeth would work wonders, but she has no synergy with Slide. She's just good on her own.

Lightning Rift does look pretty amazing right now, but that feels like a completely different deck. In old extended, they played both, but in legacy I think it's one or the other because they are individually so poor. Or maybe the answer is just a 2/2 split of each in the same deck because they aren't good enough to be the centerpiece of a deck themselves?

[ac3eb]

This deck also scoops to non-interactive combo decks (i.e. ANT, TES, Spiral Tide, Belcher, etc). I love astral slide to death as it was my deck of choice during the onslaught rotation, but frankly I don't think it's viable. Now that half the decks in legacy (yes it's an exaggeration, somewhat...) play abrupt decay it's even less viable. Deathrite Shaman also ruins the party for your loams if it survives. I think this deck would have been fun in modern (if onslaught block was included of course) but I don't see it being viable in legacy :/

[ZimAshe]

I was never a big fan of Lightning Rift though I know the decks that were built around it were fairly popular and powerful at the time. Aggro Loam dos something similar but more efficient IMO.



This deck also scoops to non-interactive combo decks (i.e. ANT, TES, Spiral Tide, Belcher, etc).


Gilded light is a pretty good main deck answer to most of these decks, depending on what they are throwing at your face that is and when they have counter magic back up or not.



Why even bother running Eternal Witness? To get back what? What bombs are you slamming down every turn that even warrant that in your list you know?



The thing about Witness is that she can gt back anything from the yard. WoG, removal spell, a disenchanted Astral slide. While 3 might not be the correct number she can certainly be abused. Nic Fit does something similar when it loops her with Recurring Nightmare to get back spells like Vindicate or Maelstrom Pulse. I do see your point about needing better beaters though. Kitchen finks in the main might not be correct and he may fair betterin the bpard against burn decks. i do like you KotR suggestion though



Your only choice for "free" cyclers are Street Wraith and Edge of Autumn, which I found important so you can actually use the Slide the turn it enters play. Edge works really well with Flagstones of Trokair and the cycle lands in case they had to be used for mana in


i hadn't considered any free cyclers and i will have to look into what other Cycling cards are available.

Also, just as a side note. if i opt to dredge LftL and my opponent activates DRS to exile it, could i cycle in response to dredge it before the DRS ability resolves? I'm genuinely curious as i do not know the answer to this.

Would it make sense to splash a third color?


Edit:

Also, one of the benefits to running a deck like Astral Slide is the ability to save your own creatures from spot removal.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I'd rather see UWB or UWR imo. Snapcaster with free cyclers is too good to pass up.

[Kich867]

I was never a big fan of Lightning Rift though I know the decks that were built around it were fairly popular and powerful at the time. Aggro Loam dos something similar but more efficient IMO.



Gilded light is a pretty good main deck answer to most of these decks, depending on what they are throwing at your face that is and when they have counter magic back up or not.




The thing about Witness is that she can gt back anything from the yard. WoG, removal spell, a disenchanted Astral slide. While 3 might not be the correct number she can certainly be abused. Nic Fit does something similar when it loops her with Recurring Nightmare to get back spells like Vindicate or Maelstrom Pulse. I do see your point about needing better beaters though. Kitchen finks in the main might not be correct and he may fair betterin the bpard against burn decks. i do like you KotR suggestion though



i hadn't considered any free cyclers and i will have to look into what other Cycling cards are available.

Also, just as a side note. if i opt to dredge LftL and my opponent activates DRS to exile it, could i cycle in response to dredge it before the DRS ability resolves? I'm genuinely curious as i do not know the answer to this.

Would it make sense to splash a third color?


Edit:

Also, one of the benefits to running a deck like Astral Slide is the ability to save your own creatures from spot removal.

If you choose to dredge your life from the loam then they have already missed their ability to eat it with DRS. Dredge is a replacement effect, not a triggered ability, they cannot respond to dredging.

They can eat it on your upkeep, but if they let you enter your draw phase and you decide to replace your draw with a dredge, it's in your hand already. If they try to remove it, you can entirely cycle to dredge in response and their ability whiffs.

[Zupponn]

I'd rather see UWB or UWR imo. Snapcaster with free cyclers is too good to pass up.

Ah, now there's an idea! Huntmaster of the Fells would be absolutely insane too, but I wonder if that's just playing around too much at that point. You would be able to get some insane value out of him though.

-Comes into play: 2/2 Wolf, 2 life.
-Opponent plays a spell and attacks: Block with Huntmaster, cycle, flicker him, 2/2 Wolf, 2 life
-Your Turn: Say go, he flips, 2 damage to target opponent and one of their creatures
-Opponent tries to Abrupt Decay him: cycle, flicker him, 2/2 Wolf, 2 life
-Your Turn with a Ravager of the Fells: Attack for 4, 2nd main, cycle, flicker him, 2/2 Wolf, 2 life, opponent's turn, flips back to Ravager, does 2 damage to opponent and their creature

EDIT: Maybe something like this?

4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Eternal Witness
3x Huntmaster of the Fells
4x Street Wraith
4x Astral Slide
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Unearth
1x Creeping Renaissance
3x Life from the Loam
2x Edge of Autumn
4x Mox Diamond
4x Secluded Steppe
4x Tranquil Thicket
2x Taiga
2x Savannah
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Plains
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath

Other Possible Additions:
Stingscourger
Restoration Angel
Man-o'-War
Shriekmaw
Flametongue Kavu
Mulldrifter
Snapcaster Mage

[Gammadoom]

I was thinking about trying Sundial of the Infinite with Astral Slide. If you slide out their creature on your turn or on their end step after end of turn triggers are on the stack, you can put the slide trigger on the stack on your end step and then activate Sundial to keep the creature exiled forever.

[ZimAshe]

I was thinking about trying Sundial of the Infinite with Astral Slide. If you slide out their creature on your turn or on their end step after end of turn triggers are on the stack, you can put the slide trigger on the stack on your end step and then activate Sundial to keep the creature exiled forever.

if the deck runs Fiend Hunter you caould get the same effect and have a body in play. I'm assuming that fiend hunter works the same as o-ring does. with his ETB ont he stack you can cycle a card and exile him with Astral Slide putting his leaves the battlefield trigger on the stack. therefore exiling the targeted creature forever.

[Admiral_Arzar]

This thread might be of interest to you OP: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?10626-Deck-Astral-Slide-vs-Legacy-take-78

[Hapless Researcher]

I recommend Fluctuator, to ensure that with Loam you are maximizing your impact.

[ZimAshe]

I recommend Fluctuator, to ensure that with Loam you are maximizing your impact.

the fluctuator deck becomes a completely different animal. It's more of a combo deck. this is more of a grindy board control deck.

Zuppon: I like your list, have you had the chance to run it at all?

[CRich3]

This seems like a fun deck, why don't you use the CAL strategy as a backup plan to combo? You have enough cyclers to get your loams and lands back to keep it up for a while. Just need a creature to beat before they remove it.

[sco0ter]

Your only choice for "free" cyclers are Street Wraith and Edge of Autumn, which I found important so you can actually use the Slide the turn it enters play. Edge works really well with Flagstones of Trokair and the cycle lands in case they had to be used for mana in the first couple turns. These are the types of interactions that make your deck more fluid without trying to get too cute. Edge is on the edge(:eyebrow:) of playable, but with KotR, you could actually tutor up the Flagstones since he'll likely be on defense until you can clear their board.


True. I've always loved the interaction between Flagstones and Edge and the ability to use Slide right away (or if the opponent thinks he is save because you have no mana open).

The CC3 slot seems overcrowded. Maybe some CC2 spell (Lone Missionary?) can replace things like Kitchen Finks?

And yes, Fiend Hunter looks really good in theory.

[ZimAshe]

True. I've always loved the interaction between Flagstones and Edge and the ability to use Slide right away (or if the opponent thinks he is save because you have no mana open).

The CC3 slot seems overcrowded. Maybe some CC2 spell (Lone Missionary?) can replace things like Kitchen Finks?

And yes, Fiend Hunter looks really good in theory.

yes i do like the idea of free cyclers too. Fiend hunter i think could be good. the deck seems like it has the ability to draw a lot of cards, so maybe running him as a one of is possible.

potential 4 drops:


Loxodon Hierarch
Obstinate Baloth
Huntmaster of the Fells


and I don't see the deck going in this direction but if it ever got around to playing 5 drops:


Acidic Slime
Thragtusk

[MGB]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?10626-Deck-Astral-Slide-vs-Legacy-take-78/


There's a whole thread on here dating back to 2008 discussing making Astral Slide work in Legacy.

Based on tournament results, and the fact that Slide has been around for a long time, I simply don't think that the concept can work in Legacy (or be competitive for that matter).

Also, this post by morgan_coke (the guy who tried to make Astral Slide work in Legacy) at the very end of that thread is particularly illuminating:


It's really just a reflection of the changes that have occurred to legacy over the last few years. Creatures need 3 power to trade with aggro anymore. The amount and quality of graveyard hate has increased significantly in the face of Dredge-based strategies. Non-Blue decks simply no longer have the ability to meaningfully interact with combo decks barring devotion of significant resources to that task. And blinking creatures has diminished radically in value. All of that combines to make Slide a far less than viable deck choice than it used to be.

I wish that wasn't the case, but I've played the deck enough to know that it is. The lack of non blue colors to interact with the stack, and the efficacy of stack based interaction in a highly diverse format just continues to hammer home the idea that top level decks must run large amounts of blue in order to be competitive at a very high level.

[ShiftyKapree]

I would love to see this deck return to Magic, I fell in love with it in the days where it was house in standard and extended. Also Tog would be cool to see again. I feel like a 3 colour deck could work, maybe Naya colors with lightning rift and life from the loam.

[MGB]

The problem with Astral Slide is that it's trying to be a control deck but has no ability whatsoever to interact with the stack like blue-based control decks that can play countermagic.

If you're not playing blue (in the form of counterspells and card filtering/draw) in Legacy right now, you had better be a lightning-fast aggro deck, or a lightning-fast combo deck. And if you're one of those, and you're not playing any blue, you had better run tons of disruption, preferably in the form of discard and/or mana denial.

[morgan_coke]

Hi everyone. For those of you who don't know me, just take my word for it, I know more about Slide in Legacy than any of you do. It's a fun, casual deck, but it's not Tier One, and honestly can't be tier one. I've built this deck in every color combination, and with just about every conceivable "angle" whether it's burn, 'walkers, locks, tutors, or wishes or reanimation or combo wins.

Right now is an incredibly bad time to try this deck. The widespread prevalence of both Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay are killers. Shaman keeps taking away your lands so LftL isn't useful - and that's if they don't take your LftL itself. Same applies to witness targets. Decay kills Slide and Rift and is maindecked, which used to not be something the deck had to be overly concerned with. The M10 rules changes eliminating damage on the stack were unbelievably brutal to this deck, dramatically weakening it in almost every matchup.

If you're really serious about trying to make the deck work, you'll need to run 8-10 accelerants like Mox Diamond, Ancient Tomb, Green Sun's Zenith, Birds of Paradise/Noble Hierarch and Deathrite Shaman. Edge of Autumn and Sakura-Tribe Elder are for the most part, sadly too slow now.

All of that said, this can be a solid meta deck choice if you're overrun by creature based aggro decks with limited amounts of burn. Liliana of the Veil, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Elspeth, Knight Errant, and Ajani Vengeant are your best 'walkers, in that order. Nantuko Monastery is your best manland. Wasteland is fun with loam, but generally counterproductive because you'd rather have the land-drops making you mana so you can do more stuff. Unearth, Spark Spray, Gilded Light, and Renewed Faith are your best cyclers, in that order, with honorable mention to Expunge, Miscalculation, and Radiant's Judgment. Decrees are crap unless you're running Cloudposts or something.

Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Eternal Witness, and Deathrite Shaman are you best creatures, and not necessarily in that order. Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk, Obstinate Baloth, Sigarda, Host of Herons, and Primeval Titan all deserve honorable mention.

All of that said, best of luck in working on this, but barring significant changes in the meta/cardpool/rules, I don't see things getting better for this deck.

Maybe, maybe, maybe, the recent printing of Supreme Verdict means you can finally run enough blue to support FoW in a bant shell of this deck, but I'm unsure if that would be enough to make it viable again. Off the top of my head, were I to try and build this archetype now, I'd say:

4x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Rhox War Monk
2x Eternal Witness

4x Supreme Verdict
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Life from the Loam

4x Miscalculation
4x Force of Will

3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3x Astral Slide

2x Misty Rainforest
2x Windswept Heath
2x Tropical Island
2x Savannah
1x Tundra
2x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
4x Tranquil Thicket
2x Secluded Steppe
2x Lonely Sandbar
1x Karakas
1x Kor Haven
1x Dryad Arbor

Sideboard
cards and stuff (probably Daze for combo, baloths for opposing lilianas, stp for aggro, krosan grip for art/enchants, plus some gy stuff)

Honestly, I see that list, and I'm not really all that impressed with it. The main problems with the deck continue to be splash damage from hate cards, inimical rules changes, lack of new card printings (we could really, really use some new, good cyclers), and difficulty interacting with the stack, board, and gy in an extremely diverse metagame. Best of luck to you all tho.

[sco0ter]

wow, morgan_coke. That post.
Somehow full of feelings for love for the deck but also disappointment. Like someone who really really fought hard through many years for the one deck to make it work and succeed, but eventually failed. And probably the most experienced Slide player here.

People always say, it can't compete, because it doesn't run blue/can't interact with the stack. Is that really true?
I mean there are tons of other decks, which don't run counterspells like Nic Fit, Death&Taxes, GW Maverick, 43 Lands, Mono W Quinn, and I rarely saw people dismissing those as unplayable.

Shaman and Decay are of course bad news for Slide, but hey we have Witness against Decay and against Shaman we can play around (Dredge in main phase, don't pass prio) or play things like Linvala.

Thanks anyway for your expertise.

[Zupponn]

Zuppon: I like your list, have you had the chance to run it at all?

I've tested it a tad against Jund, and found that matchup to be extremely favorable. Basically, their lack of basic lands means that you can keep recurring Wasteland and deny them any mana for the rest of the game. In the games where that didn't happen, either Huntmaster eventually took over the game or they managed to kill me.

[ZimAshe]

in all fairness the format has shifted a bit since 2008. sco0ter makes a very valid point that just because the deck isn't running blue and can't interact with the stack doesn't mean it's not a viable source. Jund, Nic Fit and Maverick have all performed well and cant interact with the stack either.

Astral Slide does have the downside of being a bit clunky but that should be able to be made up for once the engine is online and there have been a few value slides made.

most of the decks in the format aside from the combo decks run some sort of creature base which means slide can work defensively and stall out the game. once board control has been established slide can clear the way of any blockers and take the offensive to get the beats in. this is of course all in theory.

against Show and Tell for example, unless they are going omniscience combo if they drop an emrakul into play slide has game against that. they would have to deal with slide because they can interact with cycling. also out of the board Angel of Despair and slide make a great team.

[lost_ronin_soul]

wheres the eternal dragon,fiend hunter and woodelves?

[Kich867]

The toughest part about slide for me is that, you could just play Seismic Assault in Aggro Loam and get infinity more use out of cycling cards. Seismic Assault just kills people.

People try to get super cute with Slide, when there is no reason for it. The number one reason to run it should be board control, not abusing ETB triggers--if you want that, Cloudshift and Resto Angel are far, far better options. They're both instant speed, one presents a threat, they're probably where you should be looking.

Slide should be used for proactively killing your opponent, otherwise it's just a cute gimmick. Things like Keldon Marauders aren't a bad choice, or just sliding their blockers and beating them to death.

[Sentient6]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c14/cards/containmentpriest.jpg

Brewing with this card seems somewhat interesting.

[apple713]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c14/cards/containmentpriest.jpg

Brewing with this card seems somewhat interesting.

probably better with parallax tide / something that flickers instead of an enchantment that gets abrupt decayed and forces an entire deck built around it.

[TsumiBand]

probably better with parallax tide / something that flickers instead of an enchantment that gets abrupt decayed and forces an entire deck built around it.

Holy fuck, Parallax Wave has been one of my favorite cards since it used to be in the main 60 of Angel Stompy. Haha now it can really be that one-sided Wrath if your opp lets Priest stay alive. TECH.

[Darkenslight]

Holy fuck, Parallax Wave has been one of my favorite cards since it used to be in the main 60 of Angel Stompy. Haha now it can really be that one-sided Wrath if your opp lets Priest stay alive. TECH.

You can even cast the priest in response to the Wave trigger! STACK ABUSE IN WHITE!!!! :cool:

[apple713]

Holy fuck, Parallax Wave has been one of my favorite cards since it used to be in the main 60 of Angel Stompy. Haha now it can really be that one-sided Wrath if your opp lets Priest stay alive. TECH.

if you can find a way to bounce parallax wave you can just keep wrathing. There are probably easier ways to control the board but this is fun.

[Memories of the Time]

if you can find a way to bounce parallax wave you can just keep wrathing. There are probably easier ways to control the board but this is fun.

But priest resolves problematic MU by herself

[apple713]

But priest resolves problematic MU by herself

no, priest is only good in a select few matches, her appeal is that the ability is unique. it affects a lot of cards but not a lot of top tier decks.

[kirkusjones]

if you can find a way to bounce parallax wave you can just keep wrathing. There are probably easier ways to control the board but this is fun.

Splash blue for riptide chimera. It sounds dumb, but you get an evasive beater and more synergy with parallax wave.

[apple713]

Splash blue for riptide chimera. It sounds dumb, but you get an evasive beater and more synergy with parallax wave.

thats actually really cool with the parallax cycle. you can control the lands and the creatures. nexus has hand control but it seems ineffective maybe... idk. you could stifle the leaves play ability.