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Davran
02-11-2013, 10:22 AM
General:
Prime Speaker Zegana

Creatures:
Coiling Oracle
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Snapcaster Mage
Aether Adept
Eternal Witness
Fierce Empath
Man-o'-war
Shardless Agent
Trinket Mage
Glen Elendra Archmage
Master Biomancer
Mystic Snake
Oracle of Mul Daya
Phyrexian Metamorph
Sakashima the Impostor
Solemn Simulacrum
Acidic Slime
Body Double
Genesis
Mulldrifter
Psychosis Crawler
Seedborn Muse
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Thragtusk
Consecrated Sphinx
Deadeye Navigator
Duplicant
Wurmcoil Engine
Avenger of Zendikar
Terastodon
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

Instant:
Cyclonic Rift
Beast Within
Chord of Calling
Krosan Grip
Fact or Fiction
Evacuation

Sorcery:
Green Sun's Zenith
Regrowth
Sylvan Scrying
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Rite of Replication
Wash Out
Praetor's Counsel

Artifacts:
Expedition Map
Relic of Progenitus
Sensei's Divining Top
Sol Ring
Mind Stone
Simic Signet
Cloudstone Curio
Coalition Relic
Crystal Shard
Mimic Vat
Birthing Pod
Tawnos's Coffin

Enchantments:
Sylvan Library
Equilibrium
Rhystic Study
Greater Good

Lands:
Academy Ruins
Alchemist's Refuge
Breeding Pool
Command Tower
Dryad Arbor
Evolving Wilds
Flooded Grove
Halimar Depths
Hinterland Harbor
Homeward Path
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Misty Rainforest
Mosswort Bridge
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Reliquary Tower
Riptide Laboratory
Simic Growth Chamber
Simic Guildgate
Strip Mine
Thespian's Stage
Tolaria West
Yavimaya Coast
Island x8
Forest x7

Prime Speaker Zegana wants to draw cards and man is she good at it. It's not all that uncommon to cast her for 5+ cards right on turn 6 either.

Amon Amarth
02-11-2013, 02:51 PM
Doubling Season seems pretty weak here. It only interacts with a handful of cards plus your commander.

Davran
02-12-2013, 08:55 AM
Doubling Season seems pretty weak here. It only interacts with a handful of cards plus your commander.

Yeah, you're probably right about that. I'm hoping to eventually include Master Biomancer and some other cards it will interact well with...but for now it's kind of a wasted spot.

+ Tooth and Nail

- Doubling Season

Davran
02-13-2013, 09:57 AM
- Ulvenwald Tracker

+ Plaxcaster Frogling

Ulvenwald Tracker has been very lack-luster every time I draw it. I've actually wanted to use the ability only a handful of times, and he's either died before I could or whatever I wanted to fight was otherwise dealt with. Most of the time it either sits in my hand because I have other things I want to cast, or it gets relegated to chump blocking duty.

Plaxcaster Frogling fills a variety of roles in the deck - It's both blue and green, so it triggers both parts of Momir Vig, it has graft, so I can draw an extra card off of Prime Speaker, and it can grant shroud to Prime Speaker in a pinch.

- Loaming Shaman

+ Masked Admirers

Like Ulvenwald Tracker, Loaming Shaman has been underwhelming at best. I find that it sits in my hand and has a minimal impact on the game when cast. I still have Relic of Progenitus for graveyard control, and that's much more effective.

Masked Admirers is a nice addition in the Birthing Pod chain. Not only does it cantrip, it also Pods into Wolfir Silverheart and Thragtusk to set up a nice big Prime Speaker. Being able to regrow it is just gravy.

**EDIT:

- Yeva, Nature's Herald

+ Fathom Mage

Davran
03-04-2013, 09:36 AM
Made some major changes to the list.

- Zameck Guildmage
- Plaxcaster Frogling
- Cytoplast Root-kin
- Fathom Mage
- Forgotten Ancient
- Masked Admirers
- Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
- Draining Whelk
- Simic Charm
- Explore
- Spitting Image
- Doubling Season
- Tranquil Thicket
- Lonely Sandbar
- Forest x2

The +1/+1 counter sub-theme was nice and all, but it was significantly less powerful than it could be. Most of the supporting creatures are great in combination with each other, but they're not all that good on their own. On top of that, I found that the deck was pretty mana hungry, so I would often have to choose between board development and leaving mana open for "tricks". I decided to re-evaluate each card in the deck and try to focus on a more cohesive list of threats in an effort to keep my opponents on their toes.

+ Wall of Roots
+ Aether Adept
+ Archaeomancer
+ Genesis
+ Mulldrifter
+ Seedborn Muse
+ Consecrated Sphinx
+ Diluvian Primordial
+ Constant Mists
+ Sylvan Scrying
+ Elixir of Immortality
+ Cloudstone Curio
+ Dryad Arbor
+ Thespian's Stage
+ Llanowar Reborn
+ Island

I included a minor "bounce" package in an effort to get the most out of my ETB creatures and especially Prime Speaker Zegana. So far the deck is playing much, much better.

Moxmadness
03-04-2013, 06:54 PM
Craterhoof Behemoth my favorite green top end finisher. If I resolve him it usually good to kill at least one player if not the table especially if you land avenger of zendikar

Davran
03-05-2013, 08:53 AM
Craterhoof Behemoth my favorite green top end finisher. If I resolve him it usually good to kill at least one player if not the table especially if you land avenger of zendikar

Craterhoof Behemoth is certainly a great "I win" card, but I've excluded it intentionally. It's really only a win condition when you also have a large number of other creatures already in play, and that's just not something I find that this deck does. For the effect, I find I get more mileage out of Biomass Mutation because it's much more flexible. I also feel like slotting in Behemoth forces me to build the deck around having Behemoth + Avenger of Zendikar in play at the same time...and that's just not all that interesting for me. I've tried to get away from the traditional entwined Tooth and Nail win condition as much as possible in these colors, and so far it's working well.

If I were to find room for another big fat beater it would be something like Worldspine Wurm.

Davran
03-11-2013, 09:11 AM
Made a couple more changes to the list:

- Urban Evolution, + Rapid Hybridization

I'm not sure about this change. Urban Evolution is certainly something that can be cut. It rarely does anything, and it prevents me from setting up Prime Speaker Zegana by competing with my other 5 drops. Rapid Hybridization has been useful in testing, but I'm not 100% convinced it's actually needed. This slot may wind up as something like Psychosis Crawler in an effort to have a little more reach.

- Trygon Predator, + Shardless Agent

Shardless Agent is in as a test. After doing the math, he "hits" 70% of the time...which I think is fine. Time will tell if it's actually good enough, though.

Kayradis
04-02-2013, 08:38 AM
With the amount of bomb artifact in EDH, wouldn't Trygon be more a value card? Shardless is good, but I dont think it's that good...

Davran
04-02-2013, 09:17 AM
With the amount of bomb artifact in EDH, wouldn't Trygon be more a value card? Shardless is good, but I dont think it's that good...

Maybe it's just my meta, but Trygon has never been all that great. Sure, on occasion it'll take out an early Sol Ring or something...but I find that when I need it to connect the most is when it is either removed or my opponent has some sort of blocker. On the other hand, Shardless Agent often provides a little card advantage in the very least, and is a more relevant target for the small "bounce" sub-theme in the deck and/or a nice start to the Birthing Pod chain. That being said, Shardless Agent is far from the best U/G 3 drop available...but I've certainly found it to be more valuable than a random 2/3 flyer with a sometimes useful effect.

I've also made a few other changes to the list after playing a bunch of games:

- Wolfir Silverheart, + Psychosis Crawler

Wolfir Silverheart is a nice little trick with Prime Speaker, but overall it's pretty underwhelming since it doesn't grant any sort of evasion. Psychosis Crawler at least gives a little reach and hits all of my opponents at once.

- Rapid Hybridization, + Sakashima the Impostor

I decided that I wanted another clone effect in the deck. I waffled back and forth between Sakashima herself, Sakashima's Student and Clone, but ultimately the ability to copy Prime Speaker for X+1 cards over and over again sold me on the original. Unfortunately, Sakashima doesn't help get rid of an opponent's general...but I think I have enough other removal for those situations.

- Constant Mists, + Capsize

I never once cast Constant Mists despite having it in my hand on several occasions, so it was time to make a change. I've been tinkering with the bounce sub-theme in order to find the right balance of cards, so Capsize is in as a test. I may end up replacing it with something like Equilibrium...but we'll see how it goes.

- Regrowth, + Praetor's Counsel

Between Genesis and Snapcaster Mage there wasn't much left for Regrowth to fetch. Also, it's a pretty abysmal cascade off of Shardless Agent in the early game. Praetor's Council gives me another win condition and another way to eliminate my maximum hand size, which can be pretty important with Prime Speaker as your general.

- Crucible of Worlds, + Explore

I felt like I needed more ramp, and Explore won out due to the cantrip.

- Temple of the False God, + Forest

Colored mana is at a premium when your commander costs 2UUGG and you really want to cast it on turn 6 if at all possible.

Fo0kinz
04-02-2013, 12:33 PM
I would suggest Palinchron, unless you are opposed to going infinite. Tooth and Nail into Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron nets infinite mana, and with Prime Speaker Zegana and Deadeye Navigator, that translates into infinite card draw. The big upside to this is also that every card in the deck will actually be good, there are no dead cards such as Mikaeus + Triskelion floating around. Even just casting Palinchron into your general is a very strong play, drawing six cards and playing two creatures.

Also, you mentioned the change of Doubling Season to Tooth and Nail, but I don't see it on the list above.

Davran
04-02-2013, 01:37 PM
I would suggest Palinchron, unless you are opposed to going infinite. Tooth and Nail into Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron nets infinite mana, and with Prime Speaker Zegana and Deadeye Navigator, that translates into infinite card draw. The big upside to this is also that every card in the deck will actually be good, there are no dead cards such as Mikaeus + Triskelion floating around. Even just casting Palinchron into your general is a very strong play, drawing six cards and playing two creatures.

Also, you mentioned the change of Doubling Season to Tooth and Nail, but I don't see it on the list above.

Tooth and Nail came back out at some point...I forget when. To make a long story short, the race to 9 mana for an entwined Tooth and Nail was never all that exciting for me. It's fairly simple to build a deck that can reliably win via Tooth and Nail and some combination of Palinchron, Avenger of Zendikar, Craterhoof Behemoth and/or Deadeye Navigator, but it's just not fun (for me) to do over and over again. I like a little more of a challenge when it comes to EDH.

That said, don't let my reluctance to go the combo route stop anyone else from doing so. Tooth and Nail into Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator will definitely get you a win. If you're on this plan, adding Mystical Tutor and/or Personal Tutor will up the consistency of it a fair margin. You might also look to include Force of Will and/or Pact of Negation to protect the combo.

Davran
04-09-2013, 09:15 AM
I managed to find a good deal on a copy of Tawnos's Coffin...so:

- Elixir of Immortality, + Tawnos's Coffin

If you get past the wall of text, Tawnos's Coffin has some pretty solid synergy with Prime Speaker Zegana. For three mana I can double the number of counters on her and draw that many cards. It also has synergy with all of the various ETB effects in the deck, most notably Thragtusk.

I'm considering finding room for Master Biomancer both as a way to draw a couple extra cards off of Prime Speaker and as a way to "level up" my other creatures. It also works pretty well with Tawnos's Coffin.

Cards currently on the bubble (in no particular order):

Consecrated Sphinx
Wall of Roots
Spell Crumple

Davran
04-17-2013, 08:44 AM
Made a couple more changes to the list after playing some games:

- Wall of Roots, + Zameck Guildmage

Wall of Roots has been a mediocre draw at best. Out of the several games I've had it in play, I've used its ability once and only because I was being greedy. I'm hoping that Zameck Guildmage will help me get a little more value out of my general and the rest of my deck...especially with this next change.

- Biomass Mutation, + Master Biomancer

Biomass Mutation is a lot of fun and can lead to some pretty serious blowouts...but it's ultimately a one time trick. It doesn't grant any sort of evasion, so I often find my now gigantic guys being chump blocked. On top of that, I don't really have that high of a creature density in the first place, so the swarm approach never really happens. I think it would be much better in some sort of token swarm deck. I'm hoping that Master Biomancer fills the void left by this effect nicely. He should pump my team as I cast them, as well as provide extra tokens for Prime Speaker and for the Guildmage to eat. It also has a very favorable interaction with the clone effects I play, which should lead to a more consistently pumped creature squad than Biomass Mutation can provide.

Davran
04-24-2013, 11:47 AM
Dragon's Maze Discussion:

So now that DGM is fully spoiled, I figured I would start a discussion on some of the possible inclusions.

Bred for the Hunt: This thing is potentially decent, but I think it would require some more support on the "tokens matter" sub-theme. At the very least, Crowned Ceratok would likely have to come with it, and I'm not sure I have the space or willingness to go down that road.

Give // Take: I like this spell quite a bit. It can set up a bigger draw with Prime Speaker, and also draw an absurd amount of cards for a reasonably low price. That said, it may turn out to be a little "win more" in the deck...but I'm not going to let that stop me from testing it out. I'm leaning toward testing it in the Consecrated Sphinx slot...that thing tends to put a pretty big target on my back without ever actually doing much before it dies.

Plasm Capture: I guess this is what a "fair" mana drain looks like. I think this is a pretty easy replacement for Spell Crumple, at least on a trial basis.

Progenitor Mimic: This thing seems decent. It has an interesting interaction with other Clone effects, and spitting out a token copy of the best creature on the board on your upkeep can't be a bad thing. Finding room is going to be tricky, but I'll probably give it a shot.

Renegade Krasis: Cute for your standard legal simic deck, but I think I'll pass.

Species Gorger: Again, cute for making evolve trigger...but not what I'm looking to do here.

Krasis Incubation: Worth consideration simply because it's a UG Arrest...but I think it ultimately misses the mark for EDH.


So to sum it up, the potential DGM changes look something like:

- Consecrated Sphinx, + Give // Take

- Spell Crumple, + Plasm Caputre

- Shardless Agent, + Progenitor Mimic

I'll update the list in the OP as I get my hands on these and actually make the changes.

Davran
05-17-2013, 01:15 PM
Out:
Zameck Guildmage
Archaeomancer
Diluvian Primordial
Arcane Denial
Capsize
Spell Crumple
Voidslime
Explore
Darksteel Ingot
Llanowar Reborn

In:
Fierce Empath
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Terastodon
Evacuation
Regrowth
Mind Stone
Simic Signet
Equilibrium
Rhystic Study
Oran-rief, the Vastwood

The overall goal of these changes was to make the deck faster. I've been finding that I can take over a game, but generally not until turn 8 or 9 at least...which often doesn't cut it. Here's some specifics on the cuts and their replacements:

Zameck Guildmage is mana intensive and overall just not very exciting. If the deck relied more heavily on counters or had a tougher time drawing cards, this might be better. I think Rhystic Study is both less vulnerable due to not being a creature, and more likely to draw more cards over the course of the game.

Archaeomancer is 2 mana too expensive. Generally, by the time I'm looking to get back a spell I'm also looking to cast it in the same turn. Regrowth is cheaper, more flexible, and another target for Snapcaster Mage.

Diluvian Primordial was cut simply because it's frequently underwhelming. I don't want to have to rely on my opponent's decks for my bombs to be good, and a 5/5 flyer for 7 just isn't all that spectacular. Terastodon should be much better as a fatty. I'd like to try Woodfall Primus in this slot at some point, but for now I'm going to rock the elephants.

Arcane Denial/Spell Crumple/Voidslime. 9 times out of 10 these are stuck in my hand. In fact, I've not actually cast Voidslime once despite having it in several games. I'd much rather play actual threats like Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, or deal with all of the problems at once using Evacuation and/or Equilibrium. Plus, Equilibrium and Evacuation can be beneficial to all of my ETB dorks as well.

Darksteel Ingot and Explore came out for the cheaper Mind Stone and Simic Signet.

Llanowar Reborn was cute at best, mostly being a forest that comes into play tapped. Oran-rief, the Vastwood at least has the potential to benefit more than one creature...but it may still wind up as a basic forest in the long run.

sublime love
12-23-2013, 09:56 PM
I am an avid edh player, and a bigger multi player gamer. I have many years of multi player mtg under my belt. I mostly get to play in 3 man ffa. Once in a wile we get 4 or 5 people. But it's very rare.
Recently I went to spent 20 tickets on modo and made a edh deck, so I can play with more people/ vrs different decks.
I knew prime speaker was going to be a solid general. I had a already extensive modo collection. So I just needed a few gu staples.
My list on modo is about 12 cards different from this list, I don't have some things like sol ring, robot, breeding pool, command tower, omniscience, ect. on modo. I did not want to pay much for cards. (yes 3 dollars was my budget, per card)
So this is the list, if I made it perfect.
The only down side to this deck, every room I join, i usually get gang banged. But I still have I have a record of 12-5 with this deck (playing in 4man FFA). So if u sleeve this list, expect to work for your wins.




// General
1 Prime Speaker Zegana

// Lands
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Grove
10 Forest
1 Hinterland Harbor
10 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terrain Generator
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tropical Island
1 Vesuva
1 Wasteland
1 Winding Canyons

// Creatures
1 Acidic Slime
1 Boon Satyr
1 Deadbridge Goliath
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Draining Whelk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Horizon Chimera
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Lorescale Coatl
1 Mystic Snake
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Overbeing of Myth
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Thornling
1 Thragtusk
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Ętherling

// Instants
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Cryptic Command
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Desertion
1 Evacuation
1 Harrow
1 Hinder
1 Krosan Grip
1 Plasm Capture
1 Rewind
1 Ętherize

// Sorceries
1 CultivaTE
1 Deep Analysis
1 Devastation Tide
1 Explore
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Spitting Image
1 Urban Evolution

// Enchantments
1 Omniscience

// Artifacts
1 Crystal Shard
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Simic Signet
1 Sol Ring

// Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Wildspeaker

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Avenger of Zendikar
SB: 1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
SB: 1 Colossal Whale
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 Deadeye Navigator
SB: 1 Doubling Season
SB: 1 Duplicant
SB: 1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
SB: 1 Equilibrium
SB: 1 Exploration
SB: 1 Fable of Wolf and Owl
SB: 1 Fathom Mage
SB: 1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
SB: 1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
SB: 1 Genesis
SB: 1 Glissa Sunseeker
SB: 1 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Jace's Mindseeker
SB: 1 Leyline of Anticipation
SB: 1 Mana Drain
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 1 Mimic Vat
SB: 1 Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
SB: 1 Mystic Genesis
SB: 1 Ninja of the Deep Hours
SB: 1 Omnath, Locus of Mana
SB: 1 Ooze Flux
SB: 1 Overwhelming Intellect
SB: 1 Rampaging Baloths
SB: 1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
SB: 1 Scattering Stroke
SB: 1 Simic Sky Swallower
SB: 1 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 1 Stolen Identity
SB: 1 Swiftfoot Boots
SB: 1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
SB: 1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
SB: 1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
SB: 1 Terastodon
SB: 1 Tidespout Tyrant
SB: 1 Time Stretch
SB: 1 Trygon Predator
SB: 1 Vedalken Orrery
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Voidmage Husher
SB: 1 Yavimaya Elder
SB: 1 Yeva, Nature's Herald

The sb is all cards that have once been in the deck, and cut for various reasons. I keep the list of things I have tried, just so I know.
you will not be disappointed. Any questions on my card choices, please ask.