Extraturns

[Einherjer]

So I just read this in a tournament report at the RUG-thread: "Third game starts in extra turn 1..."
What if a game ends with 0 minutes on the clock? According to this quote it should start with extraturn 1 - but our local judge told us once, that there has to be a game going before the extraturns are used, so if there is 1 second left there will be extraturns, if not, then not...

Am I right?

Greetings

[Esper3k]

You're correct as far as I know. If the game hasn't started yet when time is called, no extra turns are played.

I can't find it right now in the MTR, but I recall that being the case.

[cdr]

You do not start a new game if there is not a game in progress when time is called. Even if you are shuffling, the match is over.

[Julian23]

So when does the game start being in progress? When you present? Or only during the very first upkeep?

[infant_no_1]

So when does the game start being in progress? When you present? Or only during the very first upkeep?

I count a game having begun when you have drawn your initial opening hand. Even after presentation I've told players their match is over. I have a feeling that this is one of those things that different judges would rule differently depending on experience level of the judge.

[Koby]

I usually rule that a game has started after mulligans have been resolved. If those actions haven't been completed when time is called, then the match is over and games are recorded. Usually 1-0 or 1-1.

[Tempus]

Could anybody cite the relevant rules text. I can't really find it...

[infant_no_1]

Magic Tournament Rules 2.3

The game is considered to have begun once all players have completed their mulligans. Pregame procedures may
be performed before time for the match has officially begun.


Hope this helps.

[HammafistRoob]

I usually rule that a game has started after mulligans have been resolved. If those actions haven't been completed when time is called, then the match is over and games are recorded. Usually 1-0 or 1-1.

Not to derail the thread here but, in a larger tournament, couldn't a player take advantage of this ruling by mulling down to a few cards to shave the final minutes? It would make more sense in my opinion if the game started once you draw your opening seven.

[phazonmutant]

Not to derail the thread here but, in a larger tournament, couldn't a player take advantage of this ruling by mulling down to a few cards to shave the final minutes? It would make more sense in my opinion if the game started once you draw your opening seven.

Deliberately manipulating the clock / your play speed to gain an advantage in any way is considered Cheating - Stalling. This is something that is tricky to call someone on, but is cheating your opponent in a very real sense.

Edit:
Should be clear that I mean playing more slowly than normal is Stalling. Playing quickly is fine.

[dune2k]

I count a game having begun when you have drawn your initial opening hand. Even after presentation I've told players their match is over. I have a feeling that this is one of those things that different judges would rule differently depending on experience level of the judge.

Since the part of the report we're talking about is written by me, here's a small addition to it: Extra turns started just when we had drawn our hands/had finished taking our mulligans (not too sure whether either of us took one ;)).

[infant_no_1]

If you had your opening grips I would rule to play the 5 turns.

[cdr]

If you had your opening grips I would rule to play the 5 turns.

What you "would rule" or what you "count" is not terribly relevant - to add to the discussion, please reference rules or other official sources.

[infant_no_1]

What you "would rule" or what you "count" is not terribly relevant - to add to the discussion, please reference rules or other official sources.

I did so previously. MTR 2.3. I was clarifying my post that was quoted by dune2k.

If I were the judge on staff at this event my ruling would be official and relevant. As would any other judge's rulings. I was not aware I had to provide credentials to post. Especially considering this was not asking for an [O]fficial answer.

[cdr]

I did so previously. MTR 2.3. I was clarifying my post that was quoted by dune2k.

If I were the judge on staff at this event my ruling would be official and relevant. As would any other judge's rulings. I was not aware I had to provide credentials to post. Especially considering this was not asking for an [O]fficial answer.

Again, what you personally would do is not useful information - even if you are a judge. You should use more broad wording if you are trying to convey rules or tournament policy, ideally with a quotation of or reference to an official document.

Only "official" (aka correct) answers should be posted to questions in this forum, not opinions or speculation, unless the the thread is specifically a discussion.

You could say "the official policy is to allow players to play the extra turns if they have drawn their opening hands" (if in fact that's true, which I don't think it is). Or "there is no official policy, but the unofficial policy is usually...". In either case, you should a) try to determine whether there is an official answer b) if there isn't, be certain you know what unoffical policy is.

AFAIK players should not play extra turns unless they have actually started the game (not just kept hands), but someone should probably ask #mtgjudge.