American-Blade (legacy U/W/R control) [Archive]

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lost_ronin_soul

02-19-2013, 09:46 PM

What is this deck about?
American blade is a deck that 'draw-go' deck. It means you make your most important plays often during your opponent's turn. The deck plays snapcaster, vendilion clique, and a boat load of instants to respond to your opponents plays. This is hopefully enough to disable their strategy. If you do play a card on you turn, its to hopefully drop a value card like Stoneforge, Jace, Geist of saint traft or some equipment.

The Deck list(2/19/2013)

Lands:
1 Academy Ruins (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Academy Ruins)
2 Arid Mesa (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Arid%20Mesa)
4 Flooded Strand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flooded%20Strand)
4 Scalding Tarn (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scalding%20Tarn)
1 Plateau (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plateau)
2 Tundra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tundra)
2 Volcanic Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Volcanic%20Island)
3 Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Island)
1 Mountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain)
1 Plains (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plains)

Creatures:
2 Geist of Saint Traft (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Geist of Saint Traft)
3 Snapcaster Mage (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster Mage)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stoneforge Mystic)
2 Vendilion Clique (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vendilion Clique)

Instants:
4 Brainstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Brainstorm)
1 Counterspell (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Counterspell)
4 Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will)
4 Lightning Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning%20Bolt)
3 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
3 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)(Sideboard one as of 4/18/13)
1 Izzetet Charm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Izzet%20Charm)(updated 4/18/13)

Artifact:
1 Batterskull (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Batterskull)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Umezawa's%20Jitte)
2 Sensei's Divining Top (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Sensei's%20Divining%20Top)
2 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)

Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace,%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor)

Sideboard: (changes as of 4/18/13)
2 Detention Sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere)
2 Flusterstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flusterstorm)
2 Mindbreak Trap (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mindbreak%20Trap)
1 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Red Elemental Blast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast)
2 Rest In Peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20In%20Peace)
1 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)
1 Supreme Verdict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Supreme%20Verdict)

Card selection:
Main board:
Academy Ruins is a land that lets you be more aggressive with playing batterskull because you can rest assured you have potential to recur it if it takes an unfortunate trip to the graveyard. Also its stupid powerful with engineered explosives when you have the mana to work with. I choose it over the other option land (karakas) for this reason. I will note it is a personal preference.

I run 5 basics because it allows the deck to cast everything including hard casting force of wills with less non basic land disruption. I like running 17 blue land sources to help reduce ugly mulligans. I run 10 fetchland to insure I see basics when dealing with wasteland decks.

Geist of Saint Traft is a power house. With his self-preservation ability of shroud any decks have trouble removing him (example bolt, abrupt decay, swords, Jace) and he swings for 6. With this decks sweet spot removal he quickly wraps up games and its not uncommon he win a game all by himself because he is a boss. Be careful with bolts if the enemy packs misdirection! It ignores his hexproof.

Snapcaster Mageis a card advantage house and with so many instants in this deck. He is good for bear beats, and responding on your opponent's turn. He lets you safely put a clock on your opponents end step against combo matchups where its dangerous to tap out. Stoneforge Mystic is powerful plain and simple. He is the reason to run 4 Force of Will (as well as they improve combo matchup).With only 2 cards to search for however its best ran as a 3 of so you are less likely to draw a useless one late game. Batterskull is a nice card to fetch for when you are not sure if stoneforge will survive, and you want to attempt to put early pressure. Even if SF dies, at worst you have 4/4 life link vigilance threat when you get 5 mana.

Vendilion Clique is amazing. You can flash it in at the end of the draw step to get rid of opponents best cards, or slap it down at the end of their turn to put suprise agro pressure with evasion. If you have counter magic and the mana available against a combo deck, I prefer waiting till the end of the turn to try to slap it down because if they dont try to combo out you get a clock and get rid of the best card in their hand without tapping out giving them potential to combo off. If they do try to combo off you have the option to clique them *which can lead to wasted spells like a useless show and tell or mana excell wasted for your opponent) and you have mana for convential counterspells if things get dicey.It gets super charged with lingering equipment. It also can counter enemy stoneforge retrievals.

The singleton counterspell. When you need a hard counter, there is no subsitute that works better. Easy to snapcaster. Spell piercex3 is better at this point then an addition 3 counterspells in the main because this meta is too fast.

The singleton Izzet Charm. It is has application in every matchup due to its mediocre versatility. It has replaced the fouth swords to plowshares in the main board. It is a new addition, but so far its relevancy vrs swords to plowshares only came into question in 2 preboard games (one tournament, one playtest against maverick). So far in both times it was game changing and better in both both events. It stopped a sneak attack deck from outright winning when I had no other countermagic and against maverick I only had a basic mountain and basic island available. I am sure there will be days iI will wish it was the 4th sword but for I been super pleased by its results.

Lightning Bolt is great removal for most creatures, gives reach, and with snapcaster mage it shows real value. Its has interaction in almost every matchup you will ever face. Often it is better then swords to plowshares (when you want to kill a veteran explorer for mana, dont want the opponent to gain life, snapcaster fun , ect)

Force of will Is the glue of legacy. It helps keep combo decks at bay as well as gives you an insurance policy when you tap out for geist of saint traft, Jace, and stoneforge. It also is the hailmary (pray you find it) counterspell when u need a counter and you dig with brainstorm or sensei's diving top.

Spell Pierce stops early bad stuff from happening like disacard, enchantments, equipment and it also eats up planeswalkers very very very often. Its also snap caster friendly. If its not enough it can often be upgraded to or reinforced with Flusterstorm depending on what matchup you face.

Swords to Plowshares is one of the best removal spells. It normally makes the life gain your opponent gains trivia (most of the time). It interacts interestingly aginst decks that have sent to the graveyard from the field effects and gets rid of big creatures bolt can't wrap up. It is however completely useless in certain matchups like storm, enchantress, high tide, miracles, show and tell (typically unfavorable even with griselbrand builds).

Umezawa's Jitte is good for shoring up creature base matches (like elves). After its charged it can give American-blade's creatures some much needed toughness to survive combat exchanges. Typically try not to keep more then four counter on it at any given time since it can be destroyed and reducing your opponent's life total is important to put them in bolt range. I typically like is at 2-3 counters.

Sensei's Divining Top is this deck's version of ponder. It runs off any land increasing keep able hands. With the heavy fetchland base, prolonged games become more favorable. It gives a huge mid-late game advantage and helps play around discard strategies, find threats, or early game lands.

Engineered Explosives is your best best at removing threats that slip through countermagics (mostly enchantments and artifacts). It has nice Utilities against akward matchups. It eats token, small creatures, chalice of the voids, lions eye diamonds, liliana of the viels, and the occasional small child. The third Engineered Explosives is nice because it helps wipes tokens for the miracle/dredge matchup, hexproof answer, as well as wipe low CC creature rush decks like elves and agro.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor draw ability is stupid strong in this deck because its typically draws stuff to protect itself, and then follows up with card advantage lead which often turns into a game win (by finding the cards to dish the damage or if you prefer his ultimate it will get you the C.A. you need to keep it alive).

As for the sideboard:
Detention Sphere is a card I don't like because its leave play trigger. Unfortunately, its too good to not run since it is a good "catch all" :rolleyes:. You bring it in against the mirror and show and tell, and if you prefer you can bring it in against creature based decks.

Flusterstorm helps with reanimator/tinfins matchup, as well are other combo and control decks. It is useful with all the storm decks I run into.

Mindbreak Trap is a 'catch all' to replace any potential dead cards and in the event there is no other decent sideboard cards are available (like against eldrazi casts), and yes it makes storm even more favorable by accident.

Red Elemental Blast are good because many many many decks run blue. is relevant in jace wars at any stage of the game. Its good against show and tell decks too.

Supreme verdict and I do not see eye to and I had a bad expierence with it. It has recently been allowed back into the sideboard as a one of, when i draw it it does alot of hard work for me.

Rest in peace is the sideboard graveyard hate. As only a two of the game plan is to stay alive long enough with countermagic to dig one of these up. Once cast you should be safe as long as its protected.

As for swords to plowshares and engineered explosives one of's, they are nice to reinforce the maindeck games 2 and 3 in appropriate match ups.

There is a similar delver version of the deck delver of secrets variant (http://deckstats.net/decks/1502/3870-uwr-delver/enThis) (I know these links may get broken with time or maybe or may become outdated but its to serve as a basic reference), and you may wonder why you would want to play American-blade, instead. American-blade has heavier mid-late game value cards package ( typically need an answer or can often turn around a game). ess likey to do that on a turn 5+ delver all by themselves). Those cards are the jaces and the small 5 card Stoneforge Package (Stoneforge +equipments). The Stoneforge Package in Jitte mode is hard on creature based decks and with flash creatures can foten get the drop on someone with a pseudo haste guy to equip a jitte and start killing off creatures if they dont keep a blocker back. On batterskull mode: it puts an aggressive clock that can deal 5 a turn once it becomes active. Delver decks run a sweet stifle/wastland package which helps win games outright by themselves by affecting opponents manabase. Stifle at times they are situational useless and as a game draws on it typically loses value. A late game stifle draw is typically terrible at recovering board position, and wasteland makes the manabase more fragile than the basic land package. Their deck runs Grim lavamancer instead which helps path clear for Geist of and to help control small creature populations but snapcaster is my preferance here. Explosives is excellent at creature control that delver can't run in the main as easily because most of their dudes cost 1 (delver and lavamancer) or zero (flipped delver) and explosives often is set on those. Yes explosives goes on two occassoinal while snapcaster or stoneforge to answer opponents threats, but their etb trigger already resolved so its less devasating on board position. Also engineered Explosives easliy nets card advantage by clearing mulpitle cards at once. (and can take out chalice of the void). The Esper Stoneblade deck (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=988527) runs a sweet discard package which I think is really nice at times, but American-blade excels at the trying to catch up on the draw better(I feel) because its more likely to draw a quick removal (bolt or swords) for that deathrite shaman, dark confidant, stoneforge, and other creatures that need to die quick before they become a major problem. With swords and lightning bolt it becomes easier to defend jace off a brainstorm ability because you are more likely to draw a kill spell or a snapcaster to flashback a kill spell. This gives you card advantage to help secure a win. Bolt is also nice for reach to bring your control deck to a quicker result against a tournament clock because you can clear dudes out of the way to beat face or you can snapcaster a bolt for extra damage. So this helps reduce the number of matches that you have that go to time. You can even use jace to bounce a snapcaster for that extra 3 damage that sits in your yard ^_^

Cards that were considered/tested(side/main board since i created the deck to its current state) :
counterflux (for protected combo decks but flusterstorm is currently more relevant, and was the card that originally drew me to splash red in the main :laugh: ) , Rest in peace (it hits "when this dies" effects, like veteran explorer, and is solid graveyard hate) , Guerrilla tactics (neat tech on discard versus liliana of the veil and hymn and kills creatures , but isnt typically that big of a game changer), back to basics, trinket mage, pithing needle, supreme verdict, pyroclasm, undergroundsea (i added the 3rd tundra instead but the sea functions as an blue land that could increase explosives to 4 like jace , thrun, humilty, sneak attack, while maken surgical extraction easier on the life total), karakas(i like my blue land count with ruins), plateau (i try keeping 18 blue lands in the deck,..2 lands non blue basic lands leaves one spot left which i like ruins currently), magnus of the moon, stifle, wasteland, grim lavamancer (I dont like how you dont get any advantage from standard removal spells casted on him if he is not active), serra avanger (ran in white land mana based version in an older version), figure of destiny (ran in white land mana based version in an older version), izzet charm, pyro blast (as a two of when red blast is a two of, for a 4 card 2/2 split), lightning helix, kitchen finks, path to exile (as of 3 of sideboard), meddling mage (for combo matchups or if I need to bring in more dudes and can ban things), delver of secrets (I dont like how you dont get any advantage from standard removal spells casted on him and is anti-synergetic with swords a little bit), and Phyrexian metamorph (a second batterskull is attractive as well as being a legend killer).

SIDEBOARDING GUIDE 5/6/13:

****AGGRO****

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Goblins:
OUT:
3x spellpierce
1x counterspell
1x force of will

IN:
1x swords to plowshares
1x Engineered explosives
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Dention sphere

+++++++++++++++++++++++
RUG Delver:
OUT:
3x jace
4x lightning bolt
1x Izzet charm
1x counterspell

IN:
1x spell pierce
3x red elemental blast
1x Supreme Verdict
1x engineered explosives
1x swords to plowshares
2x Rest in Peace

Keeping force of will over lightning bolt maybe needed to prevent stifle'd fetchland land blow outs. Red's should handle delver of secrets just fine. Jace games 2 and 3is bad because you need to get to 4 mana and they have many cards that make it tough for jace to be worth it (red elemental blasts, sulfuric vortex, spell pierce ). Fluster storm is reall good at winning counter wars here, but I feel its depending what they side in I think sulfuric vortex is more of a threat to worry about. Gameplan is to sink a threat (primarily stoneforge) and protect it (force of will).

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Maverick:
OUT:
3x spell pierce
2x Vendilion clique

IN:
1x engineered explosive
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Sword to plowshares
2x detention sphere

I believe in keeping force of will in this matchup because it lets you safe cast stonforge without swords to plowshares killing it, It also stops greensun zeniths from resolving (which will change the game) as well as blow out cards like sylvan lybrary, tsunami, choke, elspeth, ect, exspecially if they can get cradle online and power through spell pierce. I normally am against taking out threats in the deck but vendilion clique gets stopped by karakas and maze of ith, and is a bad chump blocker versus thalia. There maybe a better 2 cards to cut because jitte and vendillion cligue is really good if they dont get a utility land online.

+++++++++++++++++++++++
JUNK:
Out:
OUT:
3x Spell pierce

IN:
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Sword to plowshares
1x engineered explosives

Detention sphere is optional, but probably not neccessary.

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Stoneblade
OUT:
3x spell pierce
1x umezawa's jitte
4x lightning bolt

IN:
3x red elemental blasts
2x detention sphere
1x engineered explosives
1x spell pierce
1x swords to plowshares

It is important to keep some spot removal main incase they sink a stoneforge mystic.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Merfolk:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
3x spell pierce

IN:
3x Red elemental blasts
1x Supreme Verdict
1x swords to plowshares
1x eneginered explosives
2x detention sphere

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Affinity:
OUT:
3x spell pierce

IN:
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Swords to plowshares
1x engineered explosives

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Mono-Red burn (sorcery/instants builds):
OUT:
2x engineered explosives
4x lightning bolt

IN:
1x Spell Pierce
2x fluster storm
2x mindbreak trap (bad countermagic to help make sure late game price of progress or sulfuric vortex don't land)
1x swords to plowshares (emergency life gain)

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Mono-Red burn ( with Creature):
OUT:
2x engineered explosives
2x lightning bolt

IN:
1x Spell Pierce
2x fluster storm
1x swords to plowshares

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/R Delver:
OUT:
1x counterspell
3x spell pierce
1x izzet charm
IN:
1x swords to plow shares
1x engineered explosives
3x red elemental blast

This match seems to have been a favorable matchup so far since there isnt many builds with wastelands or stifle.

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Jund
OUT:
3x bolt
2x engineered explosives

IN:
1x swords to plowshares
1x supreme verdict
2x rest in peace
1x spell pierce
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Vision cascade
OUT:
2 x bolt
2 x spell pierce
2 x engineered explosives

IN:
1x swords to plowshares
1x supreme verdict
2x rest in peace
2x flusterstorm

This matchup has been unfavorable.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
****COMBO****

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Reanimator (blue splash):
OUT:

2x Engineered Explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x lightning bolt
1x swords to plowshares

IN:
1x spell pierce
2x flusterstorm
2x rest in peace
3x red elemental blast

Swords to plowshare, lightning bolt, detention sphere, supreme verdict and red elemental blasts can shuffle around depending on the varient.

++++++++++++++++++++++
Tin-Fins
OUT:
4x lightning bolt
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x swords to plowshares

IN:
1x spell pierce
2x flusterstorm
2x rest in peace
2x mind break trap
3x red elemental blast

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Show and Tell:
OUT:
3x swords to plow shares
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x lightning bolt

IN:
1x spell pierce
2x flusterstorm
2x Dention sphere
3x red elemental blasts
2x mindbreak trap

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Sneak and Show
OUT:
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x lightning bolt

IN:
1x spell pierce
2x flusterstorm
2x Dention sphere
2x mindbreak trap

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Dredge:
OUT:
1x izzet charm
1x counter spell
3x jace
1x Umezawa's Jitte

IN:
1x engineered explosives
2x rest in peace
1x swords to plowshares
2x detention sphere

+++++++++++++++++++++++
high tide decks:
OUT:
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x engineered explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x spell pierce

IN:

2x Flusterstorm
2x mindbreak trap
3x Red elemental blast
2x rest in peace
+++++++++++++++++++++++
storm
OUT:
3x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x jace

IN:
1x Spell Pierce
2x Flusterstorm
2x mindbreak trap
2x rest in peace

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Turbo Eldrazi (bad matchup)
OUT:
3x jace
2x engineered explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x academy ruins
IN:
2x mindbreak trap
2x rest in peace
1x spell pierce
2x detention spheres
The goal is to race them. If they become active the goal then becomes to hailmary them and remove all their wincon's from the game (3 power-drazi and 4 primeevil titans). It's the best I can come up with to try and beat it :-/

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Elves:
OUT:
2x geist of saint traft
3x spell pierce

IN:
1x Supreme Verdict
1x engineered explosives
1x swords to plowshares
2x flusterstorm
+++++++++++++++++++++++
MUD
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x snapcaster mage

IN:
1x engineered explosives
1x swords to plowshares
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Enchantress
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x lighting bolt

IN:
1x Spell Pierce
2x detention spheres
1x engineered explosive
2x mind break trap

****CONTROL*****

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Nic-Fit
OUT:
4x bolt
2x Engineered Explosives

IN:
1x Supreme Verdict
2x rest in peace
1x swords to plowshares
2x mindbreak trap (they ramp with veteran explorer)
this is just a base since sideboard may vary from scapewish, rectorfit, and GB builds
+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/W Miracles:
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x lightning bolt

IN:
1x fluster storm
1x spell pierce
3x red elemental blast
1x engineered explosives
2X detention spere

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/B Tezzeret
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Spell pierce
1x swords to powshares

IN:
3x red elemental blasts
2x detention sphere

Thank you for reading my first thread I ever posted. Feel free to give me your thoughts. The good, the bad , and the ugly :)

-LRS-
(Dave M.)

Mister M.

02-20-2013, 05:28 AM

I don't think a red splash in a fairly stock U/W stoneblade list warrants a new thread. This is beeing widely discussed in the blade control thread ( see DTB section).

Bobmans

02-20-2013, 07:50 AM

French-blade would be more appropriate, cus that is literally U/W/R.

lost_ronin_soul

02-20-2013, 08:09 AM

I don't think a red splash in a fairly stock U/W stoneblade list warrants a new thread. This is beeing widely discussed in the blade control thread ( see DTB section).
Well thanks for checking out my list anyways, and if this thread's existence offends you, I apologize in advance. I was unaware it was being widely discussed in a different thread because I have been brewing this list independantly and testing it for a while. In tournaments I have taken this too its track record is mediocre , partly because it can be difficult to pilot. So while it has done "ok" (always wining as much , or winning more then it loses) it has yet to top at a major event. It did however win 4 out of 5 rounds at a legacy competition (star city games side event) in Edison Nj a couple weeks ago. It only lost to MUD (metalworker mono red) , but beat elves, reanimator, and 2 other decks (i forgot the last two matchups).

French-blade would be more appropriate, cus that is literally U/W/R.

lol I suppoe it could be called that too depending on your preference :laugh:

Kich867

02-20-2013, 08:21 AM

It's not that it's offensive, it's just redundant. You should post your list in the stoneblade thread in the DTB section where this discussion is already going on.

Piceli89

02-20-2013, 08:43 AM

I thank you for having created this thread, because I was thinking about a very similar deck by myself as I am convinced that UWR is the premier tryad of choice to fight the new metagame infested by BGx decks. I am also surprised by how similar my choices are with yours, although I don't like Geist that much (just because its potential greatly varies in between matchups, not because the car isn't really good).

If I were to suggest things I would change or tweak, the first thing would be cutting Spell Pierce in favour of Spell Snare. SS hits the card advantage centerpieces of many decks, such as Counterbalance, Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage and Dark Confidant, and is the best answer avaiable when you're on the draw. Pierce's effectiveness is furtherly watered down by the fact that you don't run Wasteland. The only scenarios where Pierce is superior is against Show and Tell, because you have answers to PWs in the form of Geist, Clique and Bolt; Snare also remains a solid topdeck in every stage of the game.
The second Counterspell could be a very solid pick; I'd try a configuration of 3-1 or 2-2 and figure out which is the best.

I'd also cut some of the Lightning Bolts (8 spot removals is a lot) to accomodate a Supreme Verdict, which can get rid of troublesome stuff like Emrakul (this even more if you were to cut Pierce), as well as turning an unfavourable board upside down: this may happen when you're facing Jund or the likes of Tribal decks.

As for sideboard candidates, I'd strongly take in consideration Blood Moon, which wins BGx matchups by itself as long as you're willing to craft your manabase in a slightly smoothier way with more basics (I'm personally a fan of 8 basics, 5 Isl-2 Pla-1 Mou-3 Tundras-2 Volcs-9 Fetchlands-1 Karakas-1 Academy Ruins: a very strong manabase which is difficult to disrupt. By the way, Karakas is really needed with 4 legendary creatures maindeck).
Moon is also a good answer to Punishing Fire, which is a problem in your deck- Geist alone won't do it, you need a way to stop the engine cold and Rest in Peace unfortunately is very likely to be Decayed and thus isn't really reliable.

To summarize, this is my take:

4 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
---------22

4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
---------10

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
---------3

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
---------12

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
---------9

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top
---------4

[22 blue cards]

Sideboard:
2 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sower of Temptation/ (Sulfur Elemental)
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Blood Moon

Rest in Peace is a much more strong lock element than the Extractions, which aren't really suited for this kind of deck- not anymore. I can see maybe a split of 2-1 for a single SE if that shitty glass cannon thingie with Laboratory Maniac gains popularity, but that's it.
Sower comes in against Show and Tell, as well as BUG, as they have no outs to her.
Elspeth comes in against BGx decks as well, replacing the third Jace.
Canonist is there against Storm and even Elves, which is a possible contender in this metagame.
I'd even try to fit a single Pyroclasm somewhere maybe, even if it's unnecessary.

Deck is really strong and definitely has potential. There was even a prototype of it some time ago, opened by Klaus and named UWr Snapcaster control (I'll share the link if I can find it); from what I remember, it was eventually discarded because of the lack of clock. It wasn't structured on Stoneblade-esque shell though, so maybe SFM (and Geist, mostly) can help to solve this issue.

lost_ronin_soul

02-20-2013, 08:48 AM

It's not that it's offensive, it's just redundant. You should post your list in the stoneblade thread in the DTB section where this discussion is already going on.

Well thank you for pointing that thread out, it has alot of posts but I will be checking out (to hopefully become a better pilot of my own deck). I still plan on keeping this thread active to talk about my matches and centralize a location for U/W/R lists only. I mostly plan on posting how my matches went so I have a tool to look back on as I continue to tweak this deck (I've been running the shell of this deck for a while now, adding cards in as more powerful cards were printed like stoneforge replacing serra avenger). Also by keeping this thread seperate it's easier to find things I've tried with the U/W/R list. Such as play testng magnus of the moon sideboard as well as other red sideboard cards, ect ,ect

lost_ronin_soul

02-20-2013, 09:17 AM

I will try out Spell snare.(I don't like the card but I will try it out again) I don’t like top decking it and see it miss things like liliana, jace the mind sculptor or batterskull casts, greensun zeniths, adnauseam, dark ritual, duress, thoughtsieze and removal on stoneforge mystic. Yes, pierce loses some value around turn 4 and up but it can be shuffled away or force of will bait at that time, it can also be casted with snap to increase its counter effectiveness. games 2 and 3 it can be upgraded or complimented with flusterstorm (so far the 3 pierce and 3 flusterstorms in board has been working really effective for me and the second counterspell has been talked about with me and my local friends. They seem to like it as a one of in my deck and if I was to go two the recommend manaleak instead. Supreme verdict is pretty solid and with removal in the deck I can slow them down, I personally had a bad experience with it lol (kept seeing it when I wish it could have been something else). I actually thought about cutting the forth swords over the lightning bolt since bolt answers most threats effectively like dark confidant, baby-goyf, stoneforge, deathrite, meddling mage, tide-hollow sculler, I like dentention sphere against emrakul since I don’t lose board position and can keep my pressure up (right now they are in the sideboard). The land situation, I think the third tundra can turn into a 4th island without disrupting the deck I want to put karakas in the deck but right now I value academy ruins more because you can be more aggressive bringing batterskull into play, especially games 2 and 3 when hate is brought in.

Your list looks solid,... sower and disenchant are interesting cards over detention sphere. I like detention sphere because it can hit jaces and stoneforge packages and genocide tokens

I would prefer Magnus of the moon over blood moon because blood moon can be a pretty bad top deck late game

Question...what would you side in elsbeth against?

Mister M.

02-20-2013, 04:23 PM

@lost_ronin_soul:

I didn't mean to be rude, your decklist looks fine. I just thought since it's your first post and the stoneblade- discussion is running under the somewhat generic "blade control" moniker here on the source, I'd point you to that thread.

best, Mister M.

RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

02-20-2013, 04:37 PM

Anyway the OP could chop up the paragraphs a bit? It's kind of hard to read.

Why are we playing Supreme Verdict in a deck that wants to win through the combat step?

Arsenal

02-20-2013, 04:43 PM

Jace is always a viable win condition in a deck with counters + removal. Should the combat angle not pan out, then Jace Fateseal to death seems like the play. As such, Verdict supplements that route of victory.

SirTylerGalt

02-20-2013, 07:27 PM

I'd try Boros Charm to protect my threats, and for more reach :)

Piceli89

02-21-2013, 05:43 AM

I'd try Boros Charm to protect my threats, and for more reach :)

lol.

lost_ronin_soul

02-21-2013, 10:30 AM

Jace is a good alt win, but to be honest I mostly brainstorm with him so I rarely ultimate him... When I play against maverick Jace ultimate typically becomes the better path for victory because my deck had trouble getting through maze of ith when a karakas was on the field. This was before I put the two copies of geist in the deck. Supreme verdict could be a good card in the 75 but id prefer pyroclasm because it is a faster board wipe (even if some bigger dudes slip through Jace, swords , explosives and bolt should pick them up) boros charm looks nifty as the double strike can prove useful if blocking or indestructibility... the reach is better two. I like izzet charm better as a charm though since it more answers problems. I like helix better then boros charm because it can remove dudes, but I can't put boros charm down because I haven't play tested it. What is attractive about boros charm is it and clear a liliana after she activates the discard ability.

EpicLevelCommoner

02-21-2013, 10:51 AM

Piceli89

02-21-2013, 11:09 AM

Strange as it may seem, this deck seems like the best place for Ruhan of the Fomori. A 7/7 with the right equipment will end games nightmarishly quick, and it comes with the perk of being blue to pitch to Force of Will if you draw into extra copies. And it wouldn't be too hard to protect him in counter-heavy build.

Really? I mean, is it a joke? What it is with this need by people lately to just name random terrible cards without realizing that they haven't nothing to do with the goal of the deck?

lost_ronin_soul

02-21-2013, 11:24 AM

while the card is hilarious , and would be a legitamate threat and more reason for me to put karakas main board the fact that he cost 4 means he is fighting for jace the mindsulptor's spot which jace has more value

EpicLevelCommoner

02-21-2013, 12:14 PM

Really? I mean, is it a joke? What it is with this need by people lately to just name random terrible cards without realizing that they haven't nothing to do with the goal of the deck?

*shakes head* My bad: I thought there were a few Swords of Enemy Colors between the board and main . . . and a few more, beefier creatures as a back-up to Jace-Win.

Also, what exactly about a severely undercosted 7/7 is bad other than being overcosted for Legacy and being unable to block in most situations?

RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

02-21-2013, 01:19 PM

lost_ronin_soul

02-21-2013, 01:27 PM

*shakes head* My bad: I thought there were a few Swords of Enemy Colors between the board and main . . . and a few more, beefier creatures as a back-up to Jace-Win.

Also, what exactly about a severely undercosted 7/7 is bad other than being overcosted for Legacy and being unable to block in most situations?

He IS underocsted for sure, and a really good beater, but being a 4 drop in a 21 land deck means he competes with jace for being a four drop. you can increase the land count by throwing a karakas straight up, here is the problem of running him, on turn for IF you havent missed a land drop you WILL tap out , leaveing you vulernable to your opponent for until your next untap. jace at least can brainstorm to search for force of will against combo, against agro he can bounce the biggest beat stick, he can fateseal to protect againt lightning bolt, swords doesnt hit him (where the 7/7 has no protection against swords. the only amazing thing is if he has batterskull equiped....at that point playing him only goes to "win more" because you prolly have favorable board position anyways

EpicLevelCommoner

02-22-2013, 09:35 AM

Chump. Block. Hero.

Goofy says hi.

@ LRS: Thank you: that actually makes a lot more sense than three one-word sentences. Losing the Ruhan to StP would indeed be a severe loss of tempo.

RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

02-22-2013, 10:15 AM

Goofy says hi.

@ LRS: Thank you: that actually makes a lot more sense than three one-word sentences. Losing the Ruhan to StP would indeed be a severe loss of tempo.

A vanilla 7/7 is absolutely worthless. He gets chump blocked -- all day long.

Comprende?

EpicLevelCommoner

02-22-2013, 10:26 AM

Tarmogoyf is typically at least 3/4 vanilla that gets chump blocked all day long, yet its still played. Your argument is invalid, though I will admit there are other reasons that Ruhan is bad.

Arsenal

02-22-2013, 10:37 AM

The cost and color requirements of Goyf and Ruhan are worlds apart. Also, I can flood the board with 2-4x Goyf, can you flood the board with Ruhan?

EpicLevelCommoner

02-22-2013, 11:18 AM

The cost and color requirements of Goyf and Ruhan are worlds apart. Also, I can flood the board with 2-4x Goyf, can you flood the board with Ruhan?

See "other reasons". Random was citing being chumpable as a reason why Ruhan is bad, and I cited a very chumpable creature that sees quite a bit of play and is considered good.

Arsenal

02-22-2013, 11:31 AM

I thought that the "other reasons" were a given and didn't need to be spoken in order for you to understand why Ruhan is bad. I was wrong.

EpicLevelCommoner

02-22-2013, 12:18 PM

I thought that the "other reasons" were a given and didn't need to be spoken in order for you to understand why Ruhan is bad. I was wrong.

No, you were right. In fact, I stopped promoting Ruhan as a card-choice before you even responded to me, thanks to LRS explaining the loss of tempo if they decide to StP the Ruhan. Actually, the only reason I posted in response to Random was because he gave a bullshit reason as to why it was bad, and I called him out on it.

RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

02-22-2013, 02:40 PM

No, you were right. In fact, I stopped promoting Ruhan as a card-choice before you even responded to me, thanks to LRS explaining the loss of tempo if they decide to StP the Ruhan. Actually, the only reason I posted in response to Random was because he gave a bullshit reason as to why it was bad, and I called him out on it.

ELC, it's a terrible card. My three-word response to why was certainly enough. Ruhan is no way in fucking hell the same as Tarmogoyf.

Aetherick

02-22-2013, 10:03 PM

sower and disenchant are interesting cards over detention sphere. i like detention sphere because it can hit jaces and stoneforge packages and genocide tokens

i would prefer magnus of the moon over blood moon because blood moon can be a pretty bad top deck late game

question...what would u side in elsbeth against?

Blood Moon is generally better than Magus of the moon because it is a lot easier to remove a creature than an enchantment. Magus dies to bolt, punishing fire, dismember, which all can be cast under a moon effect. In addition, if you decide to run pyroclasm, you kill your own moon lock if you need to rid the field of deathrites or other creatures that can help them get out of the situation.

Elspeth replaces a Jace in the grindy BGx decks, especially jund. Lightning bolt, BBE and postboard red blasts all make jace not feel as powerful as he should be, and Elspeth is a great replacement for him. She makes chumpblockers against goyfs and sac fodder for Liliana's. Her "Jump" ability is also fantastic with Geist. I also like her in the "mirror" ie. stoneblade decks as she's really great at killing jace as well. However, she is a do nothing in certain matchups and doesn't pitch to force so she's better off in the sb.

Disenchant is great because it's instant speed and it can be flashbacked with snapcaster. I don't like detention sphere because a lot of decks are packing red blasts in the side (which they will be bringing in against this deck) and they make detention sphere look silly. When I tried det sphere I found that I would rarely get an X-for-1 trade with it. In sneak and show, det sphere really only works against emrakul as they can still draw a billion cards off griselbrand to find an answer to it.

@Piceli89: Do you think splitting the moons to have 1 in the main and 1 in the side would be useful? So many decks are weak to it and it seems awesome to just suddenly win out of nowhere because not a lot of people expect non-basic hate from a U/W/x Stoneforge deck.

ThediscoPower

02-22-2013, 11:22 PM

I remember trying to make a list like that back a few weeks ago, when I wanted to try more than just splashing for red elemental blast in my u/w stoneblade, but ended up not building the deck in the end. My experimental list looked like that, and honestly, it didn't look so bad :

Lands:
1 Academy Ruins
1 Arid Mesa
1 karakas
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains

Creatures:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendilion Clique

Instants:
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
2 spell snare
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifact:
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives

Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 elspeth, knight errant

Sideboard:
1 humility
1 detention sphere
2 geist of saint traft
1 sword of war and peace
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 pithing needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 rest in peace
1 enlighted tutor
1 blood moon

so basicly, you are running red for bolts, blood moon and red blast. Also, for those interested, I have run the enlighted tutor in the past, and it's really cool to have it in there as it kinda doubles as the second copy of one of your sideboard enchantments, so you can play one of each easily. As such, I figured that if I was to try to screw up people with blood moon, enlighted tutor would be pefect, as I would then be able to play more enchantments in my sideboard.

Now, as I said, I never got to try it out in practice (I already am very happy with my strait u/w version, so I ended up going back to that list, without the red splash), but I figured it could give you guys ideas, or something along those lines.

Aetherick

02-22-2013, 11:57 PM

Instants:
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
2 spell snare
2 lightning bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares

those lines.

Hey, is that supposed to be 4 lightning bolts? Or is the second pair something else?

ThediscoPower

02-23-2013, 01:31 AM

Hey, is that supposed to be 4 lightning bolts? Or is the second pair something else?

dammit screwed up in my notes. 2 bolts are supposed to be + 1 clique and + 1 tundra. Thanks for noticing

Piceli89

02-23-2013, 08:19 AM

Blood Moon is generally better than Magus of the moon because it is a lot easier to remove a creature than an enchantment. Magus dies to bolt, punishing fire, dismember, which all can be cast under a moon effect. In addition, if you decide to run pyroclasm, you kill your own moon lock if you need to rid the field of deathrites or other creatures that can help them get out of the situation.

Elspeth replaces a Jace in the grindy BGx decks, especially jund. Lightning bolt, BBE and postboard red blasts all make jace not feel as powerful as he should be, and Elspeth is a great replacement for him. She makes chumpblockers against goyfs and sac fodder for Liliana's. Her "Jump" ability is also fantastic with Geist. I also like her in the "mirror" ie. stoneblade decks as she's really great at killing jace as well. However, she is a do nothing in certain matchups and doesn't pitch to force so she's better off in the sb.

Disenchant is great because it's instant speed and it can be flashbacked with snapcaster. I don't like detention sphere because a lot of decks are packing red blasts in the side (which they will be bringing in against this deck) and they make detention sphere look silly. When I tried det sphere I found that I would rarely get an X-for-1 trade with it. In sneak and show, det sphere really only works against emrakul as they can still draw a billion cards off griselbrand to find an answer to it.

@Piceli89: Do you think splitting the moons to have 1 in the main and 1 in the side would be useful? So many decks are weak to it and it seems awesome to just suddenly win out of nowhere because not a lot of people expect non-basic hate from a U/W/x Stoneforge deck.

You have pretty much nailed every point, props to you.

As for Blood Moon in the maindeck: I've thought about it several times. The problem is, that in UWr deck, running it from game 1 sometimes may screw yourself more than your opponent. What I mean is that the deck relies on a good dose of white sources to function properly, given Stoneforge and Plow; if you were to draw Moon, you should have fetched at least 1 Plains to play it comfortably. This may seem not that much of a problem, but sometimes you draw into it when you have just dual lands that produce W and you're in trouble: what if I play it now and afterwards I don't find the basic Plains to cast my cards? You can easily guess that the issue gets even worse when you're playing cards that require WW, such as Elspeth and Verdict.
Also, if I were to play it MD, I'd consider it an actual plan and play it as 2-ofs. 1 is too randomic.

That's why I think Blood Moon still has to be a sideboard card in this context: not only because its effectiveness still varies greatly from matchup to matchup, but even because this very deck is not configured to have the least drawback from its effect at all. You will side it in only in certain matchups, and you'll know how you will have to fetch given one of your plans may be to find that BM and color-lock your Jund/Bug opponent (i.e.: save Flooded Strand and Mesa for the basic Plains).

The only application where I could see it as a maindeck tool is in a UR(x)-based control deck, which I'm currently working on.

EDIT: Maybe the only way you could get away with a maindeck Blood Moon is to run an extremely "smoothed-out" manabase like this:

5 Islands
3 Plains
1 Mountain
9 Fetches
1 Karakas
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island

But I think it's not worth the tradeoff with color avaiability from the 3 turns (Tundra is really useful in several scenarios, given you play Counterspell, Clique and Jace). Also, the more you fill your manabase with basics, the more colorless lands will hurt you. If you were to play this you'd probably have to give up Academy Ruins, and that's too good to not be played with EE and Batterskull.

The Treefolk Master

02-23-2013, 10:02 AM

All this Blood Moon discussion reminded me of a deck I saw on TheCouncil some time ago. The sideboard is all over the place, but the idea seems solid:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10050&iddeck=73251

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Blood Moon
1 Humility
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Izzet Charm
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Pyroclasm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Tundra
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Plateau
3 Volcanic Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
5 Island
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard:

3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Past in Flames
1 Moat
2 Misdirection
1 Counterflux
1 Negate
2 Disenchant

lost_ronin_soul

02-23-2013, 01:04 PM

@Tthe Treefolk Master
I dont like the ancestral visions even though its amazing to start in your hand. It will make you mad when you need answers, and you top deck this card that yells "suspend me and wait a few more turns while your face gets smashed in :tongue:" (but its Blood Moon (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Blood%20Moon) might help it get there by slowing down the game). Izzet Charm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Izzet%20Charm) packs versatility but at a price but i think its an upgrade from fire//ice (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Fire%20//%20Ice) . :r::u: spell in legacy for a spell pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce), careful study (with flash) (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Careful%20Study) , or shock (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Shock) is really mediocre .That being said I have considered it and playtested it and it was "ok" but didnt strike me as awesome. Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning%20Bolt) most of the time is better cuz it can reach your opponent.

@Picel89 I give kudos too your mana base consideration. Often one of the most unforgiving things about playing a deck like this is the mana base. I have been content running 10 fetch, 5 basic, 5 nonbasic, and one utility land. Since i only have to worry about getting to double blue in my deck list instead of double white, it does make ether moon (magnus or enchantment) easier to run. My list runs only 4 Swords (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares) , 3 (?!?!)Stoneforge (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stoneforge%20Mystic) (I find 4 is to much with only 2 equipment, so mid-late game I don't draw useless stoneforges), and 2 Giest (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Geist%20of%20Saint%20Traft), bringing my white count Mainboard to 9. so and i have 6 fetch and one plains to make that result in a basic plains on my field before a moon comes on the field. Glad you appericate the Ruins (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Academy%20Ruins) too:smile:. I like how it lets me recur my 4/4 lifelinker too :wink:

@Aetherick Unlike painterservant.deck though, the moons dont get on the field till turn 3 which gives the opponent time to set up with fetch lands (they can ramp it turn 2 and turn one). If stifle (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stifle) / Wasteland (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Wasteland)was ran then this plan would be down right brutal. Keeping them off fetchlands and duals and moon backup would be (in theory) insane. I know Magnus (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Magus%20of%20the%20Moon) is considerably more fragile then Blood Moon, but when I ran 3 R.I.P. (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20In%20peace) with magnus in my SB, I liked having a body on the moon. It made me feel like i can put a clock instead of durdling until the end of time if i sideboarded both in against jund. It would have to be protected with countermagic agressively, though:frown:. I like the Idea of a moon from left field two potentially disrupt an enemy but trying to make it run smooth is something I'd need to work on if i run it in the 75.Thanks for Elspeth's (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Elspeth,%20Knight-Errant)
overview. She sounds ok, but I'm not sold on her yet. I still need to play test her out, even though right now I feel there is better sideboard material. Disenchant (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Disenchant) does work its wonders, and I too REALLY REALLY REALLY disklike Detention sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere). That being said it does solve too many problems for me to ignore. It eats planeswalkers, big dudes, and tokens (dredge and miracle) which disenchant can't. I'd rather sphere the combo demon (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Griselbrand) over swordzing it, but I agree its till a bad situation. Against showandtell.deck, sphere sits in your hand as you tap out to play stoneforge with very little repercusion because it will hit virtually anything they drop mainboard. It gets everything disenchant will so its a stronger topdeck against more situations. That being said, I still HATE running the card myself so I limit it to two copies.

@ThediscoPower. Nice list. I recommend trying Giest in the main becuase I think it will help your game one win percentage because a stupid amount of decks out there right now can't deal with it("nice Abrupt decay (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Abrupt%20Decay)"). Worst case you side the two out against combo for more disruption. I think if you are going to go red splash bolt needs to be increased(at min to 3-4). I like bolt better against combo (T.E.S., Elves,), control (can eat a walker sometimes) and agro matchups over swords to plow shares. If you can't run 4 bolt and 4 swords, I'd reccomend to go to 3 swords before cutting a bolt but thats just me. I think it has better synergy with snappy (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster%20Mage) then swords since 4 mana (2 being red) and both cards (one bolt 1 snappy) in hands can flash 6 damage and a 2/1 body at the opponents end step. I've recently been thinking about e tutor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Enlightened%20Tutor) as it finds SB bullets as well. If you wanna run only 2 red of "something" I'd recommend Grim Lavamancer (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Grim%20Lavamancer) over bolt.

ELC, it's a terrible card. My three-word response to why was certainly enough. Ruhan is no way in fucking hell the same as Tarmogoyf.

I hate to beat a dead horse but i forgot to mention enemy karakas (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Karakas)
. Ok. Poor Ruhan (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ruhan%20of%20the%20Fomori) is offically dead lets move on folks, nothing to see here, just keep it moving folks.

@epiclevelcommoner
I'm glad you are brewing and thinking outside the box and I'd rather you suggest taking a look at it than not because I like to brew, and the like to get fed ideas (terrible or not) so I can decide for myself if it is playable or not. See this card's Flavor text (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Annul) for further explanation. So don't get discouraged to at least brainstorm off the beaten path in an attempt to find a potential gem because you might stumble eventually upon something broken or will be broken. Like when i played show and tell before it was cool back in 2006 (darksteel collosus, simic skyswallower and akroma targets), I picked Show and tell up for $2.50 a piece now look where they are at. So keep brewing buddy :)

-LRS-

catmint

02-26-2013, 09:00 AM

I am thinking about this build since 4 swords, 4 bolt and 3-4 snapcaster just sound so nice these days.

Additionally I would also opt for 2 Geist & Sword of Feast and Famine main considering jund & BUG. Even if they decay the sword, snappy + all the removal & counter pacakge should make sure that there is no blocker and no liliana hits the table. Then Geist can win the game easily

Given all the red in the meta jace can go down to 2 with number 3 in the board. Altough Eslpeth can also be hurt by burn it is significantly harder and tokes are good these days, so 1 in the main or sideboard is a good option I feel.

Blood moons belong to the board, but are of course super-potent in popular matchups.

Aetherick

02-26-2013, 01:11 PM

catmint

02-26-2013, 05:56 PM

TkDodo

02-27-2013, 01:25 AM

Yes maybe 1 Jitte in the side. If I play ground creatures (especially geist) a sword has a lot more value than if you play lingering souls where jitte shines.

The counter package is always something flexible, but the way I would design the deck compared to esper is beeing more draw-go than esper obviously and since not having discard of our own, there should be a decent amount of counterspells to defend versus discard and handle critical planeswalkers.

What I had in mind (untuned)

23 lands, 4 basics, 2 wasteland

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell

This has strong aspects of creature & stack control with premium lategame and winconditions (Jace, Geist, SFM) which leaves space in the SB for specific matchups.

2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Disenchant
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Blood Moon
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Rest in Peace

Compared to esper we lack discard and lingering souls, but gain red-elemental blast, lightning bolt (pretty good card right now) & Blood Moon. Tough to say which is the better version in esper vs. patriot, but against the meta right now I would prefer to have a ton of spot removal.

Really like that list. It's just: Rest in Peace <> Snapcaster Mage. I think in a deck like this, Surgical Extraction is way better due to the ability to flashback them. It can also be sided in against combo, since we have a lot of spells to take out (up to 8 removal spells) and not a lot to bring in. Also, it lacks a little bit of card selection. It sucks if you happen to have the wrong half your deck in the wrong matchups (i.e. removal against combo or lots of counters against aggro). Removing a counter (or even two of them, I think 11 counters is a little too much. They are a bad topdeck if the opponent has something on the board already, and you can always flash them back if you need more) and a Clique to add a couple of Ponder could help, or maybe some SD.Tops, which would also enable Counterbalance in the board, which would be good against combo and control. Just some thoughts.

catmint

02-27-2013, 03:24 AM

I have similar thoughts: 1 FoW, 1 Counterspell and 1 Vendilion Clique are the first things I would cut (although I would put the 4th Force and the 2nd Clique in the board then). Maybe the 4th Stoneforge is correct. For more card selection I would go for 1-2 Ponder. Simply because I am not experienced enough with SD.top and don't want to bring it to a big tournament (timing, suboptimal plays,..).

On Surgical vs. Rest in Peace.
Surgical is better against most combo and certainly better against reanimator than rest in peace.
Against dredge surgical+snapcaster can be good enough (if you are lucky to draw both), but RIP is certainly the better card in this matchup.
The thing about RIP is that it is really a card versus RUG, BUG and Jund whereas surgical is not. Sure there is an antisynergy with snapcaster but if I shut off Nimble, Goyf, Deathrite, Tomstalker & Punishing Fire, the opposing decks are hurt a lot more and I can probably win without snapcaster. If they remove the RIP from the board then the GY fills up fast and Snapcaster can get to work again.

lost_ronin_soul

03-17-2013, 08:29 PM

I went to a card shop in Rochester, Ny today. There was a monthly legacy event. Sorry i havent posted lately, I wanted to report actual event play.

my list today
1 Academy Ruins (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Academy Ruins)
2 Arid Mesa (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Arid%20Mesa)
4 Flooded Strand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flooded%20Strand)
4 Scalding Tarn (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scalding%20Tarn)
2 Tundra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tundra)
2 Volcanic Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Volcanic%20Island)
3 Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Island)
1 Mountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain)
1 Plains (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plains)
1 Plateau *new* (hhttp://deckbox.org/mtg/Plateau)
2 Geist of Saint Traft (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Geist of Saint Traft)
3 Snapcaster Mage (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster Mage)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stoneforge Mystic)
2 Vendilion Clique (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vendilion Clique)
1 Ponder *new* (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ponder)
4 Brainstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Brainstorm)
1 Counterspell (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Counterspell)
4 Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will)
4 Lightning Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning%20Bolt)
3 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
4 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)
1 Batterskull (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Batterskull)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Umezawa's%20Jitte)
2 Sensei's Divining Top (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Sensei's%20Divining%20Top)
2 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor *cut one * (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace,%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor)

Sideboard:
2 Detention Sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere)
3 Flusterstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flusterstorm)
3 Magus of the moon *new* (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Magus%20of%20the%20Moon)
1 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Red Elemental Blast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast)
3 Rest in peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20in%20Peace)

Round 1: I played against a homebrew goblins(ran goblin grenades ). I won 2-0. Side note:On game 2 ,I was at 4 life and stopped a grenade with counterspell while spell pierce sat in hand uneffective at that point.

Round2: I played against a homebrew burn deck and won 2-0. The opponents deck appeared to be under development.

Round 3: I played against maverick(g/w), 1-1-1. Game 1: I keep a risky hand not knowing what I was going against. I hand plateau and top and a fist full of blue cards.. I play top. he plays noble hierarch. My turn i top for land put lightning bolt and swords on top but couldnt find the land. Opponent drops more creatures attacks. I dig one more time and scoop it up yo not give my deck away. Game two: I stablize, game three I go to time in the round on turn for i bring him to two life brains storm no bolt or snapcaster for my bolt in grave crack fetch brainstorm again no luck we tie with my 2 snaps and v-clique staring down opponents 3 lands and sylvan lybrary. :( Side note :magus wasn't terrible shutting down opponents wastelands

round 4: I play against miracles (u/w/r). Game 1: I scoop after I run out of gas trying to stop counterbalnce and top from getting online and then losing my jace to counterbalance with my three lands in hand and no board presence (did want to go to time and its an uphill battle at that point. Game two, I sided in alot but I just don't get there :-/. Side note this is the second time in the past two months I lost this matchup soI am going to formulate a concrete strategy to take this deck out games 2-3, I think I may take out snaps games 2 and 3 since I saw it was the R.I.P version.

I have been contemplating Cutting a magnus of the moon and/or a rest in peace for more side board room because the decks I bring them in seem limited. most likely i will drop a magnus. My deck ran alright chopping a Jace for a ponder, but I think I will bring it back in, maybe :-/.

I am thinking about this build since 4 swords, 4 bolt and 3-4 snapcaster just sound so nice these days.

Additionally I would also opt for 2 Geist & Sword of Feast and Famine main considering jund & BUG. Even if they decay the sword, snappy + all the removal & counter pacakge should make sure that there is no blocker and no liliana hits the table. Then Geist can win the game easily

Given all the red in the meta jace can go down to 2 with number 3 in the board. Altough Eslpeth can also be hurt by burn it is significantly harder and tokes are good these days, so 1 in the main or sideboard is a good option I feel.

Blood moons belong to the board, but are of course super-potent in popular matchups.
Blood moons are nice but i'm liking the magnus in the side. Today, I only fought 2 name brand decks and moon woulda been "ehhh" magnus did a lil work against maverick, but way more valuable then blood moon since i was able to equip it (I'll admit i was "testing" the card in this match up so I'm not entirely sold yet it is a deff- side in against this matchup.

With SoFaF in the main, should jitte go to the side?
What counter package would you suggest to compliment the removal package?
I been liking the Jitte, and prefer it over SoFaF. If it was SoFaFa my tie matchup would have been auto lose since jitte helps get rid of active moms and Thalia. I only sided it out once and the was against miracles. I strongly recommend jitte over SoFaF.

Yes maybe 1 Jitte in the side. If I play ground creatures (especially geist) a sword has a lot more value than if you play lingering souls where jitte shines.

The counter package is always something flexible, but the way I would design the deck compared to esper is beeing more draw-go than esper obviously and since not having discard of our own, there should be a decent amount of counterspells to defend versus discard and handle critical planeswalkers.

What I had in mind (untuned)

23 lands, 4 basics, 2 wasteland

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell

This has strong aspects of creature & stack control with premium lategame and winconditions (Jace, Geist, SFM) which leaves space in the SB for specific matchups.

2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Disenchant
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Blood Moon
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Rest in Peace

Compared to esper we lack discard and lingering souls, but gain red-elemental blast, lightning bolt (pretty good card right now) & Blood Moon. Tough to say which is the better version in esper vs. patriot, but against the meta right now I would prefer to have a ton of spot removal.
Jhitte once again is a card I have more of a personal preference. I often find myself swinging in with a snap caster with jitte and winning due to card advantage due to being able to kill dudes. One of my sneaky plays i like to do is turn 2 jitte, turn 3 pass , EOT opponents turn flash in snapcaster or V-clique, and jump them when they are tapped out and jitte can get some counters. Your main looks very strong, and the sulfer elemental looks really nice (flips F/s power , powers up baneslayer, kills white weenies/tokens, I like it)

I have similar thoughts: 1 FoW, 1 Counterspell and 1 Vendilion Clique are the first things I would cut (although I would put the 4th Force and the 2nd Clique in the board then). Maybe the 4th Stoneforge is correct. For more card selection I would go for 1-2 Ponder. Simply because I am not experienced enough with SD.top and don't want to bring it to a big tournament (timing, suboptimal plays,..).

On Surgical vs. Rest in Peace.
Surgical is better against most combo and certainly better against reanimator than rest in peace.
Against dredge surgical+snapcaster can be good enough (if you are lucky to draw both), but RIP is certainly the better card in this matchup.
The thing about RIP is that it is really a card versus RUG, BUG and Jund whereas surgical is not. Sure there is an antisynergy with snapcaster but if I shut off Nimble, Goyf, Deathrite, Tomstalker & Punishing Fire, the opposing decks are hurt a lot more and I can probably win without snapcaster. If they remove the RIP from the board then the GY fills up fast and Snapcaster can get to work again.

Seems like cutting the countermagic might be worth trying out. The 4th FOW has been friendly with letting SF, geist, and Jace remain un answered in my games lately. I feel your same sentiments about snapcaster with R.I.P for games 2 and 3 about winning without snap-happy.

lost_ronin_soul

04-10-2013, 09:59 PM

So on sunday I checked out a legacy event tournament in Buffalo, NY. I have never been or heard of the shop before so I decided to bring American blade along, and a buddy with me (who played merfolk). It wasnt too big but there were solid lists of the deck lists for ANT , Enchantress, Esper Stoneblade, Show and tell, ect...

My deck list was:

1 Academy Ruins (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Academy Ruins)
2 Arid Mesa (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Arid%20Mesa)
4 Flooded Strand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flooded%20Strand)
4 Scalding Tarn (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scalding%20Tarn)
2 Tundra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tundra)
2 Volcanic Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Volcanic%20Island)
3 Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Island)
1 Mountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain)
1 Plains (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plains)
1 Plateau (hhttp://deckbox.org/mtg/Plateau)
2 Geist of Saint Traft (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Geist of Saint Traft)
3 Snapcaster Mage (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster Mage)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stoneforge Mystic)
2 Vendilion Clique (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vendilion Clique)
4 Brainstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Brainstorm)
1 Counterspell (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Counterspell)
4 Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will)
4 Lightning Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning%20Bolt)
3 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
4 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)
1 Batterskull (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Batterskull)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Umezawa's%20Jitte)
2 Sensei's Divining Top (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Sensei's%20Divining%20Top)
2 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor *back to 3 * (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace,%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor)

Sideboard:
2 Detention Sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere)
2 Flusterstorm *cut one* (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flusterstorm)
2 Magus of the moon *cut one* (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Magus%20of%20the%20Moon)
1 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Red Elemental Blast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast)
3 Rest in peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20in%20Peace)
1 Spell Pierce*new* (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Izzet Charm*new* (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Izzet%20Charm)

First round: I play against faithless-reanima-drazi (a non-real deck). I win 2-0. Nothing to brag about the match unfortunately :/
On game one I failed to stop a reanimation spell so he gets a 11/11 that I swords to plowshares and then I proceed to Jace/fateseal him out. This game would have probably would have took a spill for the worse if it was a Grislebrand or Inkwell.
On game two I cast R.I.P and kill his 4/4 discard dork (costed 3) then proceeded to win with Geist.

Second Round: Enchantress 2-0
Game one: On his turn 3, he casts Rest in peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20in%20Peace) I misplayed because I should have brainstormed his turn 2 but didnt. So I cast Brainstorm to dig for spell pierce , no luck so I cast Snap-happy (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster Mage) (without using flashback mechanic). I did this for early agro since I knew I was going against enchantress and had no real heavy hitters in hand at the moment. He sinks a card that is a threat, Argothian Enchantress (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Argothian%20Enchantress). I dont want to lose to him out card advantaging me with threats likeElephant Grass (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Elephant%20Grass) somewheres in his deck. So on my turn, I swing with snap-happy and he is at 15 now (He cracked a fetch and I hit him twice so far). I drop E.E. on two and crack it sacrificing my snap caster. He plays Mirri'sGuile (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mirri's%20Guile) and another R.I.P. and passes. I top deck V-clique (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vendilion Clique) and pass turn . On his upkeep he filter-trigger, draws, and I flash in clique and see bad things. I can't let him keep Helm of obedience (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Helm%20of%20Obedience) because he has enough to cast and activate it this turn, so i get it out of his hand. I swing a few turns with vclique and finish him with a double bolt.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Side note: I had 3 swords to plowshares by turn 3 in my hand and am looking at cutting down to 3 main board and switching its spot with the sidebard izzet charm, still keeping the 4th sword in sideboard. Since in Certain matchups if pretty mostly useless against Storm, Show and tell, Miracle, other non creature decks/combo, and not the best card against the mirror.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game two: I race with Geist against active elephant grass and a choke with my basic plains and basic mountain tapping out for each attack... three attacks and a finisher bolt seals the deal.

Round 3: Ant 2-1

Game one: I lost by not countering the first dark ritual.. he procceeded to play 5 rituals and my spell pierce sits in hand now useless and I lose.
Game two: I keep a hand with force of will a spell pierce and a fluster storm +5 cards (without any blue lands). He makes a bad duress choice by nabbing the fluster storm. A couple turns later he tries to go off and I still don't a have a blue land but I have double force and counter the infernal tutor and counter the flash back'd Past in Flames. I win.
Game three: I dream crush him.

Round 4: Esper stoneblade A match I really wanted to test out. 2-1
Game one: I see a lingering souls and spell pierce one half of it. I sink a geist and Jace and win
Game two: I sided out force thinking 3 Reds (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast) will get me there, and proceed to lose against enemy Stoneforge into Enemy batterskull. I forgot I took out my bolts and swords too...opps. live and learn.
Game three: Force of will back in, I lose the first counter war, win the second and end the game with 29 life :D (I should have wrote more notes on this because I forget exactly how I win, looks like a batterskull)

I plan on playing at two legacy events this weekend so stay tuned...

maiko1993

04-13-2013, 01:18 PM

i played at my LGS couple weeks ago with a American Blade list and did pretty well, besides a draw against elves.
here's my list:

// Lands
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [RTR] Hallowed Fountain
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
2 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [RAV] Island (4)
2 [RAV] Plains (4)
1 [RAV] Mountain (1)
1 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [GP] Steam Vents
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ISD] Geist of Saint Traft
2 [M12] Grim Lavamancer

// Spells
1 [NPH] Batterskull
3 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [DDF] Swords to Plowshares
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
1 [MM] Misdirection

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M12] Grim Lavamancer
SB: 1 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
SB: 1 [IA] Disenchant
SB: 3 [TE] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 3 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [MM] Misdirection

The list have no Jace and/or Old Duals because i didnt have any, but with my savings, i will buy them this week or so. =D

A point that i want to explain is the use of Grim Lavamancer. Its a house against stoneforge decks and any other creature based decks. I was pretty happy using him and wanted a 3rd in the main, obviusly he and snappy aren't great friends but as i used to play with UR Delver i know when and what to pitch to lavamancer's activation without hurting snappy targets.
I want to know what do you guys think about the use of Grim Lavamancer on this deck.
Im planning to play with this again in some time, but with some tweaks as im going to buy some new toys ;)

lost_ronin_soul

04-14-2013, 01:30 PM

i played at my LGS couple weeks ago with a American Blade list and did pretty well, besides a draw against elves.

@maiko:You're list looks nice, despite it being a work in progress. I am a fan of you're grim lavamancers, and you're list is inspiring me to test them out in my list. 23 land is alot for your build's curve, but you are running wasteland and colored mana is really important. I think this list would be stupid brutal if you find room to add stifle (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stifle) x 4 and one wasteland. You will be able to lock people out of games with that because you can hate on their fetchlands and dual lands. Add Snapcaster back up for stifle and things can get out of hand. Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives) typically does alot of work for me against elves, and I recently added pyroclasm and supreme verdict in the sideboard to crush them. You're lavamancer's probably do as much work as EE in that matchups. Misdirection is cool tech but I can't say it's good or bad for you're deck, but I do think it maybe better as a one of in the 75 if you choose to run it. I am assuming its holding the spot for force of will, which I think 4 forces main is really good in this meta. I think COP:Red is not that great...An alternative option would be energy field + rest in peace (taken out the relic of progenitus if you wen this route). Chill is a good red stopper too. I assume you have quite a bit of red decks floating around in your local meta. Either way, thanks for replying, I look forward to hearing more feedback as your deck develops. :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday, I went out to Elmira to play in a legacy event. I won three rounds, lost 3 rounds.

Here is my list:

1 Academy Ruins (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Academy Ruins)
2 Arid Mesa (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Arid%20Mesa)
4 Flooded Strand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flooded%20Strand)
4 Scalding Tarn (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scalding%20Tarn)
2 Tundra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tundra)
2 Volcanic Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Volcanic%20Island)
3 Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Island)
1 Mountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain)
1 Plains (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plains)
1 Plateau (hhttp://deckbox.org/mtg/Plateau)
2 Geist of Saint Traft (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Geist of Saint Traft)
3 Snapcaster Mage (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster Mage)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stoneforge Mystic)
2 Vendilion Clique (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vendilion Clique)
4 Brainstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Brainstorm)
1 Counterspell (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Counterspell)
4 Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will)
4 Lightning Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning%20Bolt)
3 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Izzet Charm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Izzet%20Charm) *new*
3 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares) *cut one,put it in SB*
1 Batterskull (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Batterskull)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Umezawa's%20Jitte)
2 Sensei's Divining Top (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Sensei's%20Divining%20Top)
2 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace,%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor)

Sideboard:
2 Detention Sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere)
2 Flusterstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flusterstorm)
1 Pyroclasm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Pyroclasm) *new*
1 Supreme verdict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Supreme%20Verdict) *new*
1 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Red Elemental Blast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast)
3 Rest in peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20in%20Peace)
1 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)*new*

Match one : BUG Cascade: 1-2

Game one:I am on the play and quickly develop a Geist. I swords a creeping tarpit, and swing in. Opponent plays tarmogoyf. I want to put some pressure since his deck has a better draw engine than mine (ancestral visions). I sacrificial attack with my geist into his goyf to lightning bolt finish goyf off. He recovers board position faster and wins.

Game two: He has a deathrite and shardless agent and plays a liliana and activates discard, I have nothing but 4 lands and I'm in top deck mode with no hand, no creatures. Things look really really bad. I top deck jace and activate 'fate seal' on him. He swings in drops a goyf. I draw and use jace's brainstorm ability. I play a fetch land and supreme verdict (zero cards left in hand). His turn, he gets two dudes activate discard off lily. I Jacestorm into a land and snap caster to verdict again. His turn, he drops a goyf and discards again (6 counters). I jacestorm in an EE, and decided lily is more of a threat and I take it out. His goyf kills jace, I eventually stabilize with batterskull and geist for the win. :)

Game three: I had a mana flooded hand but didnt want to mull it since my opponent mulled to 6. I get batterskull active soon and it turns into a really long game but I eventually lose :-/

Match two: storm (T.E.S) 0-2

Game one: I didn't know what I was playing until he played Gitaxian Probe. I felt comfortable with spell pierce AND force of will back up. Wrong, he got the nuts and powered through it. Depressing :-/

Game two: I felt surely that last game was a fluke, and won't happen again because this is suppose to be a favorable matchup. I keep a hand with brainstorm Spell Pierce and an E.E. Turn two he plays duress, I stop it with spell pierce (to keep him guessing) to he proceeds to go off i brainstorm in response burning wish but can't find force of will he tendrils me for 20 :(

Match three: Bug cascade 0-2

Game one:This game takes forever and I eventually scoop when he has jace on the field for 5 turns and I am in top deck mode. Hid deck is durdly and he is taken forever to to try to get a significant finisher online. I may have had a very very slim chance to win but I didn't want to draw the game on hoping for the stars to align and eat up more time on the clock.

Game two: I start to race him with a vendilion clique, he eventually abrupt decays it. Iplay R.I.P. and turn goyf into a hilarious 0/1 vanilla blocker. I bring him down to 5 life but he eventually wins with the massive card advantage of his jaces and ancestral visions.
[side note: With how bad American blade initially did at first, I struck up a conversation with a brew buddy, and he suggested to look into silence for those match ups. Ironically there was only 2 bug cascade decks in the room. Can't win them all i guess :-/]

match four: mono-red-sneak attack 2-0

Game one: spell pierce saves me against major problems, and the izzet charm shows value over swords by stopping another fatal spell from auto-killing me when i had no other countermagic in hand but izzet charm. I guess it played off today to drop down to 3 Swords main. I win with overwhelming board presence shortly after with batterskull and double stoneforge.

Game two: He plays turn two seething song (I figured I can spell pierce the critical spell) but he drops defense grid. Then he drops pyromancy. Following turn dumps hand, activates pyromancy twice, and I take 30 from the emrakuls he pitches...

Game three: I spell pierce and fluster storm a Through the breach and proceed to win with snapcaster beats.

Match five: Tezzeretor 2-0

Game one : I have no clue what I was playing against because I see tailsman cards (cost 2 man to play, tap add a mana to the pool). I originally thought I was paired down to a really really really bad brew that didnt know what they were doing, at first. But I became confused when I started to see baleful strix and force of will. I was totally baffled and confused until he played transmute artifact (I countered that card so fast). Then I realised that this was the tezzerator deck I heard about a while back but never went against, Stoneforge package got me there ending in 30 life.

Game two: He gets the strix down. I drop my stoneforge. He shortly after lands a tezzeret off an ancient tomb, makes strix a 5/5. I go get batterskull down and kill tezzeret. He drops lodestone golem, swings for 5(!?!), and I find out the tezzeret's ability of 5/5 is permanent (suprise!). I kill strix with E.E. and trade germ token with a Lodestone golem and proceed to win.

Match six: T.E.S 2-0 (redemption!)

Game one: I keep a bad hand not knowing what I'm going against with a fetchland, spell pierce, forcex3 , stoneforge x2 (thinking force of will can keep me in the game until I get my second land.). A Probe later I find out my bad decision was stupid good and I get rewarded for being a bad player as I natural draw into my land turn two and safely cast stoneforge pressure. I proceed to win against my opponent valiant attempts to draw out my counterspells with duress and cabal therapy

Game two: He powers through countermagic , but with only a lions eye diamond and a floating red mana after he casts burning wish he is forced to grab a diminishing returns and fizzles, I win shortly afterword.

Stay tuned for today's tournment results I'll post later on (hopefully I can get to it later today, but probably not) :)

-LRS-

maiko1993

04-15-2013, 11:29 PM

@maiko:You're list looks nice, despite it being a work in progress. I am a fan of you're grim lavamancers, and you're list is inspiring me to test them out in my list. 23 land is alot for your build's curve, but you are running wasteland and colored mana is really important. I think this list would be stupid brutal if you find room to add stifle (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stifle) x 4 and one wasteland. You will be able to lock people out of games with that because you can hate on their fetchlands and dual lands. Add Snapcaster back up for stifle and things can get out of hand. Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives) typically does alot of work for me against elves, and I recently added pyroclasm and supreme verdict in the sideboard to crush them. You're lavamancer's probably do as much work as EE in that matchups. Misdirection is cool tech but I can't say it's good or bad for you're deck, but I do think it maybe better as a one of in the 75 if you choose to run it. I am assuming its holding the spot for force of will, which I think 4 forces main is really good in this meta. I think COP:Red is not that great...An alternative option would be energy field + rest in peace (taken out the relic of progenitus if you wen this route). Chill is a good red stopper too. I assume you have quite a bit of red decks floating around in your local meta. Either way, thanks for replying, I look forward to hearing more feedback as your deck develops. :)

-LRS-

I used only 3 wastelands afraid drawing too many of them, as you said, this deck is pretty mana intensive and colorless is awful sometimes. Your idea on Stifles remember me of American Delver and this list is something more midrange oriented. Wasteland is only to remove annoying lands, such as: Cavern of Souls, Maze of Ith, Grove of the Burnwillows and Gaea's Cradle, to name some.
Engineered Explosives is also on the buylist and next tournament i should have them. How Pyroclasm is working for you? I'm thiking about that and everytime i come to the conclusion that EE and Supreme Verdict do better the work.
I lost at T4 against a Sneak 'n Show because i didn't drew my counters and SB hates, even with the mull to 5, and that convinced me on the counters spot at this list, as we don't have discard spells to count on.
RiP is pretty broken at legacy and i will run them, but i have to drop my lavamancers to that. but with StP, Bolt and EE MD i'm not afraid of missing him.
Your tip on E.Field is the answer against my meta filled with Burns and random aggros that i hadn't thought of. On the buylist too.
How good was the Izzet Charm for you? I thought about this some days ago and his flexbility should be enought to deserve a spot on main.
About Sensei's Divining Top: As i'm not used to them, is ok replace them with Ponder? I know on the long term, SDT is waaay too good, but im more comfortable with my Ponders, what you think?
On Magus of the Moon: Is him worthy the slot? Or i should replace them with Blood Moon and a E. Tutor package on SB?
As for now i should have only 1 Tundra and 1 Volcanic Island, you think that i should replace them with basics or shock lands?

i know is too many questions, but is so funny to share exp with anothers players with the same deck. :)

lost_ronin_soul

04-16-2013, 11:17 PM

I used only 3 wastelands afraid drawing too many of them, as you said, this deck is pretty mana intensive and colorless is awful sometimes. Your idea on Stifles remember me of American Delver and this list is something more midrange oriented. Wasteland is only to remove annoying lands, such as: Cavern of Souls, Maze of Ith, Grove of the Burnwillows and Gaea's Cradle, to name some.
Engineered Explosives is also on the buylist and next tournament i should have them. How Pyroclasm is working for you? I'm thiking about that and everytime i come to the conclusion that EE and Supreme Verdict do better the work.
I lost at T4 against a Sneak 'n Show because i didn't drew my counters and SB hates, even with the mull to 5, and that convinced me on the counters spot at this list, as we don't have discard spells to count on.
RiP is pretty broken at legacy and i will run them, but i have to drop my lavamancers to that. but with StP, Bolt and EE MD i'm not afraid of missing him.
Your tip on E.Field is the answer against my meta filled with Burns and random aggros that i hadn't thought of. On the buylist too.
How good was the Izzet Charm for you? I thought about this some days ago and his flexbility should be enought to deserve a spot on main.
About Sensei's Divining Top: As i'm not used to them, is ok replace them with Ponder? I know on the long term, SDT is waaay too good, but im more comfortable with my Ponders, what you think?
On Magus of the Moon: Is him worthy the slot? Or i should replace them with Blood Moon and a E. Tutor package on SB?
As for now i should have only 1 Tundra and 1 Volcanic Island, you think that i should replace them with basics or shock lands?

i know is too many questions, but is so funny to share exp with anothers players with the same deck. :)

I actually do like all the questions. Keep them coming. :) This will allow a greater amount of sharing and hopefully brew the list to become even stronger. I think 3 wastelands is perfectly fine in your current deck build since you don't run Jace as an alternative win con. With grim lavamancer, it can build up the graveyard for you go you can shoot more things for 2 damage. I know how hard it is to get through with batterskull and vendilion cligue versus a maverick player with karakas and maze of ith on the field. Giest of saint traft with batterskull is a way out. I don't think Cavern of Souls is the enemy here. I played against merfolk this weekend that ran cavern and I sideboarded out all my countermagic for reds and creature control. I lost game one, but I dream crushed merfolk games 2 and 3. Blood moon is probably better for your deck. Though I am super fond of magnus of the moon because he is a 2/2 clock. Blood moon is actually much harder to get rid of and can turn off those annoying lands you dislike with no fear from enemy swords, bolts, lavamancer, Liliana, punishing fire, ect.I think Blood moon is safer, but my personally like to play loose and see if it gets me there. I think my list's mana base is ether moon card friendly due to the high amount of fetchland. In general, just fetch for basic Island first and then grab Plains, if you board in a moon and aren't sure which basic to grab first. The logic is so brainstorm can you stuff to play and you have protection magic. Gaea's cradle is not a good thing to worry about because they can activate it the turn they get it. So its a better plan to plan shake and bake their dudes with spot removal so Gaea's cradle is ,hopefully, kept as a 0-1 mana generator.

I was thinking about your list, and I think surgical extraction is better for your list because of 5 graveyard reliant cards (snaps + lavamancer)of your cards like graveyards compared to my 3 (snapscasters). Surgical Extraction is a way out against burn willows, (Or rest in peace).Also on that note, you're relic of progenitus might be the best card for your build as it can graveyard wipe, it can be used one sidedly (slowly tap it each turn), and it has the option to cantrip which is really really good. I may try out relic in my sideboard. I also like how relic is a one drop , so its easier to commit, and it also doesnt suck in multiples...

Regarding sensei's top, I strongly prefer it over ponder. Top has extended play value which is nice. Ponder has better turn 1 value, and generally better instant gratification (unless you kept some fetch lands available). It also has better synergy with lavamancer. The main reason I love top, honestly, is I can play it off non blue lands. This increases the chance I'll keep hands. Top which can mean the difference of keeping a hand with plains, academy ruins, platau, or mountain when the hand lacks an immediate blue source but has two land in it. I recommend 2 tops.

Pyroclasm is a nice card but I think with all the creature removal and the EEx3 in the 75 it is not necessary. Most creature base decks should be easy to sweep up under the rug with the EE and one of verdict with the insane amount of spot removal our decks pack.So I believe you and I see eye to eye regarding pyroclasm. Yes it good but I don't think pyroclasm is necessary at this time to be in the sideboard.

Izzet Charm so far has proved itself to be the difference in only one game 1 so far (see my saturday's matchup against mono red sneak attack in my post on 4/14/13) I like it as a 'one of' in the 75 and currently run it in the main. I dropped down to 3 swords to plow shares in the main to fit it in and so far I haven't seen a major hicup.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sunday overview

Here is my list:

1 Academy Ruins (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Academy Ruins)
2 Arid Mesa (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Arid%20Mesa)
4 Flooded Strand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flooded%20Strand)
4 Scalding Tarn (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scalding%20Tarn)
2 Tundra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tundra)
2 Volcanic Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Volcanic%20Island)
3 Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Island)
1 Mountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain)
1 Plains (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plains)
1 Plateau (hhttp://deckbox.org/mtg/Plateau)
2 Geist of Saint Traft (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Geist of Saint Traft)
3 Snapcaster Mage (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster Mage)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stoneforge Mystic)
2 Vendilion Clique (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vendilion Clique)
4 Brainstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Brainstorm)
1 Counterspell (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Counterspell)
4 Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will)
4 Lightning Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning%20Bolt)
3 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Izzet Charm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Izzet%20Charm)
3 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)
1 Batterskull (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Batterskull)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Umezawa's%20Jitte)
2 Sensei's Divining Top (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Sensei's%20Divining%20Top)
2 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace,%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor)

Sideboard:
2 Detention Sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere)
2 Flusterstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flusterstorm)
1 Pyroclasm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Pyroclasm)
1 Supreme verdict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Supreme%20Verdict)
1 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Red Elemental Blast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast)
3 Rest in peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20in%20Peace)
1 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)

Match one : UB Omnitell 2-0
Game One: I win the dice roll. My hand is force of will, Swords to plowshares, Lightning Blot x2, 3 land. I keep figuring"I don't see any real business immediately but this deck will probably get me there." My T1: land pass. Op T1: underground sea, Thoughtseize. I bolt him in response. ( He nabs force of will, Red flaging that I'm probably in a world of hurt and I'm probably playing against combo). My T2: I play a land and pass). His T2: Ancient tomb, Show and tell a Griselbrand versus my land. My t3: top deck a lightning bolt, and smile. I crack a fetch for volcanic island. I attempt to bait him with a swords to plowshares on his Griselbrand. He activates his ability naturally, which the game ends when I double lightning bolt that turn for the win XD. Turn 3 win is the fastest I have ever achieved with american blade. It was all thanks to lightning bolt x3 , swords to plowshares, griselbrand, anceint tomb and thoughtseize :)

Game two: I win with snapcaster beats backed up with countermagic.

Match two: storm (Ant) 1-1-1

Game one: Opponent faces my vendilion clique beats. but eventually squeaks a adnasuem spell through at 10 life. He had the win available since he cracked a LED before casting the spell. He scooped because he forgot about his 3 black mana floating , after he scooped he showed me his hand i face palmed myself because american-blade won the game due to opponent "forgetting he had the mana". Depressing victory :-/

Game two: I play aggressively with snap castering bolts in stead of keeping it help back for countermagic, and he slides a win.

Game three: We were having fun playing each other and lost track of the clock and we start this game on turn 0, i stop him from going off on his turn (turn 5 at time) game is a draw round

Match three: Alluren (shardless show and tell build) 0-2

Game one: I have snapcaster and counterspell but lack heavy mana so I try to play inside the combo (let alluren resolve off show and tell, He passes and I sneak in geist. I ended up using counterspell and snapcaster counterspell but he eventually powers through and wins
Game two: I keep a hand full of countermagic (double or triple spell pierce?) but only an island and a top. I play top. on upkeep i activate and dont see any land, my opponent gets too far ahead and wins.

match four: Merfolk 2-1

Game one: I get crushed under merfolk. I lost under their speed and counter.
Game two: I bring in REDS , spheres, And other creature removal, boarding out all countermagic. I dream crush him with a vendilion clique when i flash it in before his standstill resolves.
Game three: I had double EE out on one and two and he had revoker merfolk lord and 2 curse catchers.. I kill his revoker then wipe his board. and slide in a snapcaster under the standstill again, this time i have jhitte. I win.

lost_ronin_soul

04-25-2013, 05:20 PM

So last week was a good day for american-blade. I piloted it on Saturday at a 88 person event and I came in 16th place at Vestal, NY, and went undefeated at Rochester, NY on Sunday. I would have reported earlier but my computer monitor died so it took a while for me to get a new one.

Same main board as above:

Sideboard:
2 Detention Sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere)
2 Flusterstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flusterstorm)
2 MindBreak Trap (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mindbreak%20Trap)
1 Supreme verdict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Supreme%20Verdict)
1 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Red Elemental Blast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast)
2Rest in peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20in%20Peace)
1 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)

Saturday's Event

Round 1: Scape-wish (nic-fit) 2-0

Game one: Surprisingly, I slamed down jace and I'm able to keep his valukuts offline and jace him out while he has deeds online.
Game two: It's a really long game as opponent has gained a net total of 13 life and I gained over a net total 35 life. geist of saint traft +batterskull beats eventually trade with primeval titan then snapcaster batter-beats finish things off.

Round 2: Esper blade 0-2

Game one: Opponent played riptide laboratory and my mana light hand turns into mana screw when my two lands get vindicated and snap-vindicate
Game two: I red elemental blast a venser but dont draw into enough business despite an early top. :-/

Round 3: Death and taxes 1-2

Game one: I lose. Opponent sinks a early, I am faced with thalia ,Miran crusaderx2 very quickly. He then flicker wisps my germ token from batterskull and wins.
Game two: I win. I shut off mangara lock barely and barely get a stoneforge jitte online.
Game three: I lose. Before I lose I manage to kill double active mother of runes, phrexian revoker x2 (one on top and one on EE) .

Round 4: GB team america 2-0

Game one: He a one land hand and I punish him by bolting deathrite shaman, after a few turns of durdling he scoops to geist.
Game two: I get to play rest in peace. His gofy cries. I get into a liliana versus Jace war. Jace wins.

Round 5: High tide 2-1

Game one: While he is going off I play vendilion clique, he plays force of will, I spell pierce a the Turn About he fizzles, I proceed to win
Game two: He goes off. I float a red mana off a volcanic island. Eventually a time spiral resolves and I see a mind break trap and a fluster storm but no red elemental blast. He brain freeze kills me.
Game three: I win with snap caster beats, we almost go to time.

Round 6: U/R delver 2/0

Game one: goblin guide eats a bolt. I live long enough to eventually resolve a jace and win
Game two: He tries a main phase brainstorm on turn two or three with no fetch lands so i red elemental blast, we have a ridiculous counter war. He wins the counter war but it yields nothing I win with geist jitte.

Round 7: 4 color midrange (u/g/b/w stoneblade) 2-0

Game one: He gets academy ruins EE lock online. I get rid of it with Vendilion clique eventually.
Game two: After a Vendilion clique war, eventually get snap caster batterskull online

Side note :I didnt bring in red elemental blasts against him, but i could have since he runs jace.

Sunday's Event

Round 1: "opps! all spells" 2-0

Game one: Vendilion clique reveals this glass cannon deck. He had 2 balstrade spyx2 and undercity informerx1 and a hand full of useless cards. Opponent has a miserable game
Game two: Bring in my combo hate. I keep a hand of double fluster storm....opponent doesnt go off turn one. I win.

Round 2: Infect shoal 2-1

Game one: His mana base confused me (tropical island, peer through the depths, inkmoth nexus). Eventually, he gets his inkmoth nexus to power through my swords to plowshares and force of will with his double pact of negation.
Game two: I deny him creatures all day long.
Game three: Rinse and repeat. I win

Round 3: Ant 2-1

Game one: I lose.He is able to power through
Game two: I win. R.I.P. and fluster storms get me there
Game three: I win. stoneforge beats 10 goblin tokens ( he had to play through countermagic)

Round 4: Maverick 0-0-0

My buddy and I rode together and decide to chop to top four

Round 5 (top 4): Bug control

Game one: His Goyf finds my swords to plowshares, he cliques my jitte and wins.
Game two: I win with jace, snapcaster mage, My own vendilion clique and jitte
Game three: I play into a wasteland. I still slam a batterskull down turn 3. It kills a liliana. I play around the daze I saw in his hand with vendilion clilque. I eventually get jace down. I win

Round 6: Maverick again 0-0-0

My buddy and I decide to draw and we both go undefeated.
Game one: goblin guide eats a bolt. I live long enough to eventually resolve a jace and win
Game two: He tries a main phase brainstorm with no fetch lands so i red elemental blast, we have a rediculous counter war. he wins the counterwar but it yields nothing i win with geist jhitte.

-LRS-

Kowitz

08-07-2013, 08:25 AM

I'm trying to decide between building American Delver, or American Blade. I know delver is more on the radar right now, having won 2 SCG tournaments, but I think the blade deck could be very good as well. Here is the list I came up with for now:

3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Vendilion Clique

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
3x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
2x Ponder
1x Izzet Charm
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor*

3x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
3x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
1x Plateau*
3x Flooded Strand
3x Scalding Tarn*
2x Arid Mesa
1x Karakas
2x Wasteland

SIDEBOARD

2x Flusterstorm
2x Meddling Mage
3x Pyroblast
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Surgical Extraction*
1x Force of Will
2x Rest in Peace
2x Engineered Explosives

I think I want to fit some blood moons in the 75 somewhere.

lambert101

05-11-2014, 09:37 AM

Played in a local monthly legacy tournament. I forgot about this thread and wanted some opinions on a moon blade list I was inspired from Qwerioos.

Main:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True Name-Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Blood Moon
4 Ponder
4 Brianstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Island
3 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa

Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
1 Wear/Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izet Staticaster
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
1 Supreme Verdict

The list was solid. I kept greedy hands thinking ponder would bail me out. The rationale for 4 True Name-Nemsis is because he requires and immediate answer or your opponents have to race him and then you drop the bass cannon that is supreme verdict then deploy another threat that you have been sandbagging in your hand. Please comment on the list as I think this idea can become awesome.

lambert101

08-11-2014, 10:37 PM

NECRO.....

I tried this at SCG Syracuse and went 2-4 drop. I started the day 2-0 beating miracles then dredge. From there I played BUG Delver twice in a row and lost. Hymns crushed me in those games. Like quad Hymn in one game. The list I ran was:

Main:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True Name-Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Blood Moon
4 Ponder
4 Brianstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgement
2 Spell Pierce
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Wear/Tear
1 Izet Staticaster
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
1 Council's Judgement
2 Pithing Needle

The list felt like it needed more control. I could see either more counterspells or removal as in Grimlavamancer. Any thoughts or opinions would be great.

Qweerios

08-13-2014, 02:19 AM

I still play this deck regularly for about a year now and the successes are still piling up. Here are a few things worth noting about this deck.

As of late, council's judgment has been the go-to card for this deck. With red providing bolts as stp #5-8, all we were missing was a good vindicate effect for the main. Judgment is superior to both verdict and explosives as mainboard answers to every problematic permanents that might slip through our cheap removal and counters ( liliana, tnn, and batterskull for instance, but mainly tnn). So far i havent gone under 2 copies and never regretted it.

Ponder is overrated outside of the delver/daze tempo suite. It constricts our mana and delays our gameplan. I suggest playing additional lands and/or a single copy of Top before considering ponders in a reactive stoneblade deck.

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

lambert101

08-13-2014, 09:13 AM

@qweerios

are you suggesting to cut ponders for Bolts? I loved council's judgement and wouldn't mine more pierces or even snares. I just don't know how to fit in all in.

MGB

08-13-2014, 10:05 AM

So it's UWR Delver with Jace instead of Delver.

Juice11

08-13-2014, 10:09 AM

So it's UWR Delver with Jace instead of Delver.

More like esper stoneblade with bolts/rebs instead of thoughtseize

Qweerios

08-13-2014, 10:18 AM

Unlike most decks we encounter, time is on our side. Consequently, we don't have to proactively dig for threats, answers, and avoid superfluous land drops like delver decks. Having a healthy 22-24 land count and curving out naturally into 4-drops is much smoother. So yeah, try cuting down on ponders for bolts, pierces, and/or lands and see how it goes.

As for spell snare, i personally dislike it in any control deck. I'd rather stack up on pierce and classic counterspell before considering a narrow card like snare in a deck where the difference between leaving 1 mana versus 2 mana open is insignificant.

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

EDIT: Snare not Pierce

mainactivenet

08-14-2014, 06:42 AM

I'm very interesting in your opinions about my version of UWR control

3 x snapcaster mage
2 x true-name nemesis
1 x vendilion clique
2 x stoneforge mystic
1 x batterskull

2 x jace, the mind sculptor

4 x force of will
2 x spell pierce
2 x counterspell

4 x swords to plowshares
4 x lightning bolt
2 x forked bolt
1 x engineered explosives

4 x brainstorm
3 x ponder
2 x sensei's divining top

1 x academy ruins
3 x flooded strand
3 x scalding tarn
2 x polluted delta
2 x arid mesa
2 x tundra
2 x volcanic island
4 x island
2 x plains
1 x mountain

lambert101

08-15-2014, 02:01 PM

played the following at a small 8 man local legacy last night going 3-0. Match-ups were miracles (legends build), Dead Guy Ale splash green for Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay, and Elves. I loved the 10 pinpoint removal spells. It really compliment the 4 True Name by not having to board wipe. Please let me know your thoughts. I am thinking about making the disenchant a wear//tear and possibly dropping Keranos, God of Storms for another council's judgement, counterspell, or rest in peace.

Moon Blade

Main:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True Name-Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Blood Moon
4 Ponder
4 Brianstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
2 Council's Judgement
2 Spell Pierce
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Disenchant
1 Izet Staticaster
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Keranos, God of Storms

ivanpei

08-15-2014, 11:24 PM

Qweerios

08-16-2014, 07:44 PM

My opinion is that red is only worth it when splashing for Lavamancers md. Must play 2-3 copies Grim and 2-3 Copies of bolt. True Name should be 3 copies and Snapcaster can be trimmed down to 1-2 copies. Clique should be a 2 off as well.

Grim is needed as a power 1 drop similar to how Deathblade has deathrites. Grim just takes over games if left unchecked.

I disagree that the deck "needs" a 1 drop creature. We have plenty of cheap answers at 1 mana and playing an aggressive tempo game is not what we aim for. Grim Lavamancer is only as good as it is bad. He makes for a great SB card but he is dead weight in too many machups compared to, say, cards like Bolt or Snapcaster that we barely play 2-3 of.

As for Cliques main, I agree that they are better here than in other variants of Stoneblade because we have more reach and play more reactively. However, I don't think a Clique should ever replace a TNN because a 4th TNN is almost always better than a 1st or 2nd Clique. If anything, Clique is competing with Blood Moon as interchangeable main/side cards.

lambert101

08-23-2014, 05:57 PM

I have been rocking the following recently with some solid results. I always feel in the games with 10 removal spells until TNN and jitte/jace/batterskull take over. Here are some sideboard guidelines and wanted to know others opinions. Thank you.

MOON BLADE
Lands 22
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountian
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas

Creatures 10
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True Name-Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage

Spells 28
2 Blood Moon
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Council’s Judgement
4 Brianstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Disenchant
1 Izet Staticaster
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Keranos, God of Storms

Versus Guide:

Goblins:
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Counterspell
- 2 Blood Moon
- 2 Force of Will
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Keranos, God of Storms

Jund
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Vendilion Clique

Maverick
- 4 Force of Will
- 2 Spell Pierce
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Keranos, God of Storms

Merfolk
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Counterspell
- 2 Blood Moon
- 2 Force of Will
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Keranos, God of Storms

LED Dredge
- 2 Blood Moon
- 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+ 1 Grafdigger's Cage
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Flusterstorm

Manaless Dredge
- 2 Blood Moon
- 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+ 1 Grafdigger's Cage
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Flusterstorm

Reanimator
- 2 Blood Moon
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 2 True-Name Nemesis
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
- 1 Stoneforge Mystic
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Grafdigger's Cage
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Flusterstorm

MUD
NEED HELP
1 Disenchant
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Pithing Needle
1 Keranos, God of Storms
RUG DELVER
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
- 4 Force of Will
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

UWR DELVER
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Disenchant

Esper Stoneblade
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Disenchant

Esper Deathblade
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Disenchant

Dead Guy
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Rest in Peace

Sneak and Show
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Disenchant
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 2 Blood Moon

Elves
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 2 Blood Moon
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Grafdigger's Cage

ANT
- 3 Lightning Bolt
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 2 Blood Moon
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 1 Grafdigger's Cage
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Flusterstorm

LANDS:
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 2 Spell Pierce
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 1 Keranos, God of Storms

Imperial Painter:
- 2 Blood Moon
- 4 Force of Will
- 4 NEED HELP
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Disenchant
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Pithing Needle
1 Keranos, God of Storms
BUG DELVER
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Vendilion Clique

Shardless BUG
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Rest in Peace
+ 2 Vendilion Clique

Burn
- 2 Blood Moon
+ 2 Flusterstorm

UR Delver
- 2 Blood Moon
- 4 Force of Will
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Vendilion Clique

Death and Taxes
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Counterspell
- 2 Blood Moon
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Keranos, God of Storms

Omni Tell
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Disenchant
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 2 Blood Moon

Miracles
- 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 2 Blood Moon
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Keranos, God of Storms

TES
- 3 Lightning Bolt
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 2 Blood Moon
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 1 Grafdigger's Cage
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Flusterstorm

Belcher
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 2 Blood Moon
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Izet Staticaster
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Flusterstorms
+ 2 Pithing Needle

Qweerios

08-24-2014, 05:38 PM

First, you would need to have Blood Moons in your deck or sideboard to make a boarding plan involving them...

lambert101

08-24-2014, 07:19 PM

First, you would need to have Blood Moons in your deck or sideboard to make a boarding plan involving them...

Oops! Thank you! Fixed it.

Qweerios

08-24-2014, 07:53 PM

I would bring in Needles against Jund. They are quite good against lily and sylvan library. I would often play a Needle on T1-2 and lead into a T3 TNN that would take the game. I'd take needles over snaps if I intend on bringing in RiP.

Bolts are better than StP in the Reanimator matchup. Swording Griselbrand is a losing proposition while a Bolt can kill your opponent following huge life swings from Reanimate and Grissel activations.

FoW is better than Bolts against RUG. FoW is one of the better cards to have against RUG in any deck as well because the matchup isn't determined by card exchanges, but board state. Bolt is also mediocre in this matchup as it only kills Delver.

Again, FoW is better than Pierce against UWR Delver because Pierce quickly becomes a dead card. It only counters removal and all of their non-creature spells cost 0-1 mana. They have very few threats, deal with those and the game is yours (AKA: you will have a counterwar over Nemesis). If you really want to keep Pierce, at least change them for Flusters.

I would keep Bolts > StP vs. Lands because it allows lethal damage to be squeezed between Chasm and shortens the game. When you get to the point where you have to StP a Marrit Lage, the game is over.

You need all of your Bolts against ANT postboard or you will lose to Xantid Swarm. Side out clunky dead cards like Nemesis and Jace in that matchup before taking away crucial 1cmc answers.

You don't need VClique and Keranos against Painter and Pierce + Conterspell are both worse than FoW against most combo matchups.

lambert101

08-24-2014, 09:04 PM

Qweerios

08-25-2014, 01:24 AM

I don't think Keranos is worth it. I can see him being good against Miracles because we are allowed to reach 5 mana and he is difficult to remove, but then again so would be a 3rd or 4th Jace or even a Fact or Fiction. I would spend the SB slot on something a little more global such as VClique or Meddling Mage. Even Envelop seems better as a SB card against Miracles and other decks compared to Keranos.

On a side note, I playtested against Team America with Junk Pod and Moon Blade all night and won 9/10 matches. I think this deck is very well positioned right now as it has the same kind of control over aggro decks that Miracles has but a little more resilient to disruption.

lambert101

08-31-2014, 03:48 PM

Been toying around with the numbers. This deck continues to surprise me on how good it can be. I am thinking Blood Moon might have to go to the board for more interaction. The changes from my last list would be
Main:
- 2 Blood Moon
- 2 True Name
+ 2 Vendelion Clique
+ 1 Spell Pierce
+ 1 Counterspell

New Side Board Idea:
2 Blood Moon
2 Rest in Peace
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Disenchant
1 Izet Staticaster
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Venser Shaper Savant

Qweerios

09-08-2014, 01:41 AM

Any opinions on Lightning Bolt vs. Izzet Charm?

lambert101

09-08-2014, 09:14 PM

I have been trying to add more counter spells to be honest. I am currently at the following moving towards a more midrange deck with an awkward fetch basic manabase that has been surprisingly good.

Main

4 Island
3 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas

4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Blood Moon
3 Jace the Mindsculptor
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lighting Bolt
1 Council's Judgement

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Force of Will
1 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Council's Judgment

I like to keep posting deck list as I try to morph this deck into my pet deck because it consists of my favorite cards. I typically like looking back at the post dates and compare it to my notes. Please feel free to critique and ask about any card choices and numbers.

Juice11

09-09-2014, 12:17 AM

I think I need a break from Elves for now. This is the list I am thinking about running at a local PTQ next weekend.

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lighting Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
1 Council's Judgement

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Jace the Mindsculptor

3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau

Sideboard:
2 Blood Moon
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wear//Tear
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Price of Progress
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Electrickery or EE

SirTylerGalt

09-10-2014, 06:16 PM

Any opinions on Lightning Bolt vs. Izzet Charm?

Jared Boettcher played 2 Izzet Charms a while ago, and seemed to like them: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26498_Leaving-A-Legacy--With-A-Stone-Blade.html

lambert101

09-16-2014, 07:16 PM

Played at an 88 man event this past weekend ended up going 4-3

Here was the list

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Blood Moon
3 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Blood Moon
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lighting Bolt
1 Council's Judgement
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Jace the Mindsculptor

Board:
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Rest in Peace
2 Flusterstorm
1 Council's Judgement
1 Force of Will
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle

Match-up
Round 1 DnT: Loss - 2-1 Kept a terrible hand g2 and g3 he topdecked a disenchant to kill my batterskull to swing for lethal :(
Round 3 UB Stiflenought: Win - 2-0 interesting deck but still not as good as jitte and tnn
Round 3 Miracles: Win - 2-0 (haven't found this match-up terrible)
Round 4 UR Stifle Delver: Loss - G1 stifles me out and wins with a sandbagged bolt for lethal, g2 Voltron TNN gets there, G3 top decks a delver while I top deck 4 lands in a row :(
Round 5 4 color loam: Loss - Little upset with my play I drop what I thought would be and easy one with RIP and Blood Moon
Round 6 Shardless BUG: Win 2-0 wasn't ready for main deck blood moon, Jace and blood moon get g2
Round 7 No Show: at the last round a no show for a win

swordstoplowsharesguy

09-25-2014, 04:03 PM

Qweerios

09-25-2014, 07:39 PM

Hey all,

I've been testing something similar for the last few weeks, haven't been doing super well with it (58% win in 29 tourney matches) but I feel my testing has been a bit skewed in terms of match ups (lots of death and taxes, which seems like a difficult matchup, I'm 0-4 against it anyways, and 0-3 against dregde, which seems a bit unlucky). Anyways, I think the addition of treasure cruise to this deck might be a big deal if we lower the curve a little bit and add some disruption. The game plan being to keep a clean board for the first few turns then gas up with cruise and drop significant threats.

I was especially surprised to see so many decks on here with sideboards very similar to what I've been using:

Creatures (10)
4 – Stoneforge Mystic
2 – True-Name Nemesis
2 – Vendilion Clique
2 – Snapcaster Mage

Spells (28)
4 – Brainstorm
3 – Swords to Plowshares
4 – Lightning Bolt
3 – Force of Will
4 – Spell Pierce
3 – Stifle
3 – Treasure Cruise
1 – Blood Moon
1 – Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 – Umezawa’s Jitte
1 – Batterskull

Lands (22)

3 – Volcanic Island
3 – Tundra
2 – Island
1 – Plains
4 – Wasteland
3 – Flooded Strand
4 – Scalding Tarn
2 – Arid Mesa

Sideboard (15)
1 – Force of Will
2 – Pyroclasm
1 – Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 – Meddling Mage
2 – Rest in Peace
1 – Engineered Explosives
2 – Pyroblast
1 – Blood Moon
1 – Wear//Tear
1 – Enlightened Tutor

Thoughts? Is 22 land too many? Been thinking of trimming one for a ponder...

Ponder is better with multiple copies of Blood Moon mainboard because it provides a shuffle effect for Jace and Brainstorm when fetches are shut down. Don't get me wrong, Ponder is never bad but I have found that higher land counts and better reactive answers (Izzet Charm and Counterspell) are preferrable to main phase cantrips that tax your reactive mana. Flooding is also something control decks tend to wish for because our hay-makers are generally on the higher end of the curve. My logic here is simple, don't play Ponder in Blade decks if you're going to Ponder for lands (AKA: cutting lands for Ponders).

I don't like Stifles in your list and you have no ways of dealing with a resolved TNN. Personally, I don't think I've lost to DnT yet with this list and I play against it regularly. Add a pair of Supreme Verdicts and lots of your troubles will go away.

22 Lands with 4 Wastelands is far from too many. I play 24 lands when I choose 4 colorless sources in a Blood Moon deck. Also, why play Wastelands if you intend on hating out non-basics with Blood Moon? I also fail to see a Karakas in there so I question Cliques > Nemesis altogether. There is also a severe lack of basic lands in this deck to be playing Blood Moon.

It seems like your deck is trying to be aggressive on Bolts and Stifles but without the adequate creature base while also trying to be controlling with a singleton Jace. I would suggest picking a direction between Delver and Jace.

Oh by the way, where do you play in Toronto? I've got buddies over there.

swordstoplowsharesguy

09-25-2014, 08:58 PM

Ponder is better with multiple copies of Blood Moon mainboard because it provides a shuffle effect for Jace and Brainstorm when fetches are shut down. Don't get me wrong, Ponder is never bad but I have found that higher land counts and better reactive answers (Izzet Charm and Counterspell) are preferrable to main phase cantrips that tax your reactive mana. Flooding is also something control decks tend to wish for because our hay-makers are generally on the higher end of the curve. My logic here is simple, don't play Ponder in Blade decks if you're going to Ponder for lands (AKA: cutting lands for Ponders).

I don't like Stifles in your list and you have no ways of dealing with a resolved TNN. Personally, I don't think I've lost to DnT yet with this list and I play against it regularly. Add a pair of Supreme Verdicts and lots of your troubles will go away.

22 Lands with 4 Wastelands is far from too many. I play 24 lands when I choose 4 colorless sources in a Blood Moon deck. Also, why play Wastelands if you intend on hating out non-basics with Blood Moon? I also fail to see a Karakas in there so I question Cliques > Nemesis altogether. There is also a severe lack of basic lands in this deck to be playing Blood Moon.

It seems like your deck is trying to be aggressive on Bolts and Stifles but without the adequate creature base while also trying to be controlling with a singleton Jace. I would suggest picking a direction between Delver and Jace.

Oh by the way, where do you play in Toronto? I've got buddies over there.

Thanks for the response! It's good to get another opinion on the deck. Hopefully I can explain a few of the choices and also point out a few changes based on your comments.

The argument against ponder sounds reasonable, especially considering wastelands. Replacing a land with ponder doesn't make a great deal of sense if you're counting on ponder to find you a land a reasonable % of the time.

As for death and taxes, this build struggles for a few reasons that may be absent in yours. Playing supreme verdict is not really an option as it is VERY difficult to resolve through Thalia/Wasteland/Port. If you're not running wastelands and more basics this wouldn't be as much of an issue, and I'm sure Verdict is a game ending spell in that match, though likely not an option here. This would be one advantage to try a more controlling, basic heavy build which I suppose you support for good reasons ;) I'm hoping pyroclasm helps here. Still need to test, but it solves my "sweeper" problem at a much lower cost, and is just as good against elves, goblins (though not merfolk/death and taxes).

As for the stifles, I think they are very powerful in a number of matches, and I actually like them quite a bit. Against miracles and shardless they are indispensable, while also being good against delver and some combo. While my testing with treasure cruise has been limited, I think that being able to trade card for card with an opponent and limit his/her ability to resolve difficult spells (like jace, like true name, show and tell etc.) is a huge advantage, and one of the reasons to play this version of the deck. As I see it, stifle isn't an aggressive card in this list (as it is in delver), it's meant to make the transition to the mid-game easier (as well as "turning on" spell pierce). This, combined with the graveyard fuel it provides makes it an auto include in my mind. I think if you try the cruise you will see what I mean.

I haven't run into alot of true name in testing, and I think my best responses to it are preventative (blood moon, force, pyro, explosives). I guess it depends on how well I can prevent it from landing in the decks that play it, as well as how good my match up is against those decks (UWR Delver, Merfolk, Esper stoneblade).

That said, I think your points on True Name/Clique make sense. I would definitely consider trimming Clique for true name. Clique was initially included to give me some pressure against combo, though it may be better off having those kinds of situational cards in the board. True Name just provides such a lousy clock I've been unwilling to commit on a full set. There are times where I wish they were geists. Do you think it best to just lose the percentage against combo? Any suggestions on how to make up for a net loss against combo?

The blood moon/wasteland point is worth thinking about. I see blood moon as a game ending spell on a clear board (against delver, shardless, Jund etc.), so I hadn't even thought about it so much as disruption as a win con in a weird way. Though you're right, they are working across purposes in many matches. Definitely a reason to move it to the board at the very least -- Blood moon really does read "win target game" so even a few basics justifies playing it in the sideboard, though maybe not the main, wastelands or not.

Jace. Ah Jace. You're right that its is more of a "control" card than an "aggro" card but I don't think that means he doesn't belong in the list or in more aggressive lists generally. Midrange stoneblade should definitely be able to play both roles (I'm thinking of the Bant Stoneforge list in Washington by Sam Black that ran Jace and wasteland, though I suppose he had a lot of mana dorks as well). That said, maybe getting up to 4 mana is tough for this list in many matches (D+T and delver being prime examples). Maybe my problem is that Jace is a bit too swingy -- great in slower matches but poor in others, and maybe doesn't have a great deal of natural synergy with the deck (having no maindeck sweepers, and not always enough removal to support it depending on the match up). I'll try to think of another threat that might replace it at a lower cost (something that isn't true name ideally -- Brimaz/Geist perhaps?).

I play all over the place in Toronto. Friendly troll for legacy mostly, but also 401 games, face to face, Hairy Tarantula North. I think I know most of the regular legacy folks here so I might have met your friends ;)

Thanks for the tips and good luck with your build!

lambert101

10-02-2014, 07:09 PM

Tried a different control approach with UWR and came to the following with some choices. Assemble the legion seems slow I know but can wreck house if unchecked.

Lands: 22
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Messa
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas

Control Package: 33
4 Stoneforge
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgement
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Ponder
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Dig Through Time

2 Blood Moon
1 Elspeth
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Island
or
2 Blood Moon
1 Island
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Assemble the Legion/Elspeth/Keranos
or
2 Blood Moon
1 Island
1 Force of Will/Supreme Verdict
11 Assemble the Legion/Elspeth/Keranos

lost_ronin_soul

04-06-2015, 11:38 AM

Sorry guys to leave you hanging , I have a separate thread dedicated to red splash. But here is a breakdown of what went down when I took down legacy in Syracuse for the Premier IQ. I been a little broke lately so sunday was the first time in a while I could play.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=82342

Creatures (9)
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminus
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ponder
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands (21)
4 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
Sideboard (15)
3 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Rest in Peace
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict

(No dig through times XP. Jace/snapcaster is enough card advantage to play draw-go)

Round 1: Evan on Miracles 2-1

Win the coin flip , I get a batterskull and get to 32 life. I lose to a resolved entreat the angels on 4 eating at my 32 life in two turns. Game two I get snap caster beats for a while then stoneforge batterskull backup. It was close, but I win game three on turns by flipping top to counter a terminus on my attack when he was a mana shy from paying for it.

Round 2 bryan: bug delver 2-1

I smash game one with batterksull online against a flipped delver. Game two I lose to a play mistake of having double tarn without cracking them in response to a pithing needle so I scoop when my top deck tundra gets wastelanded. Game three I kept a shaky hand that I can get potentially waste landed out of the game but has a playable stoenforge. Myopponent draws too many cards off ponder and gets a loss on turn 3
:-/

Round 3: Quin onDredge/(with lands)2-0
Game one I use snapcaster bolt trick to hold off ichrid attacks while getting rid of bridges without creating tokens. first snap caster bolt trick exiles 2 bridges, the third in late game grabs another. I stabilize and he eventually decks. Game two, I keep a hand with engineered explosives and rest in peace. It was over in quick.... I cast engineered explosives to avoid a potential cabal therapy's down the road, He plays nature's claim on it. I cast rest in peace and proceed to the win phase with jace two turns later.

Round 4:Joey delver
I win game one I get witled down to one life facing a flipped delver and a unflipped delver with only snap caster on the ground. It was close and it came down to me casting a vendilion clique to trade with a flipped delver and then me getting lucky with brainstorm to hit a non-fetch land to get me to my 5th mana to cast sword of fire and ice on a snapcaster to handle an unflipped delver. If my opponent had better luck flipping delver I would have lost. Game two I get to draw a bit of jace but he finally gets a tarmogofy through with abrupt decay back up to get me, game 3 we went to turns and drew

Round 5 : Ted McCulskie on shardless bug 0-2
I just got smashed 0-2. its a bad matchup. Shardless agent hitting visions , thought seize and hymns all day long. even saw a tasigur

Round 6:tim miracle (edit: found my scored board) 2-1

Game one I am facing a naked counterbalance (no top) and I cast an end of Tim's turn vendilin clique to see if the coast is clear for jace. I resolve my Jace. I fateseal. He untaps and council judgement my jace. I cast jace number 2 and fate seal him out of the game. Game two he resolve an early vendilion clique and gets me before I can answer it. Game three I get a batterskull down and it gets council judgement after a single attack but I get snapcaster online with sword of fire and ice for a nice 6 a turn effect.

Round 7:chris on maverick 2-0

I got the play. On game one, I terminus on my turn 3, a scavenging ooze ,mother of runes, and dryad arbor and then jace him out. Game 2 I get there as well but I almost messed up a ponder by almost drawing a terminus. I put 3 cards back and then realized I didn't draw (terminus is on top). Called a judge, but I couldn't undo the order, but I was allowed to shuffle and get out of it. The ponder wasn’t great but it beat having a miracle stuck in hand

Top 8: I get in on the 8th seat

Round: Elliot Wolchesky on miracles 8
I lose game one to miracles. But games 2 and 3 I get under it and win keeping counterbalance and jace off the table. I even used Engineered explosives to handle an entreat the angels resolution

Round 9: Drew Brantner on miracles
I lose game one to miracles. But game in game two I keep a shaky hand with force of will x2,ponder and spell pierce, stoneforge mystic and 2 non blue lands and go for the early stoneforge and get there. Game 3 I get under my opponents deck and win keeping counterbalance and jace off the table.

Round 10: Wilkin Chau on dead guy ale 2-0
I have to keep dark confidant off the board as quick as I can games one and two. I swept up lingering soul tokens and dark confidants up with terminus. I even had a sweet batterskull facing lingering souls tokens that pyroclasm quickly mopped up game two.

games miracles my sideboard strategy was to board out lightning bolt x4 and terminus x4 for flusterstorm (helps win counter wars significantly and was very relevant) x 3, engineered explosives x2 and red elemental blast x3

I sideboard against bug by bringing in Engineered explosives x2 supreme verdict x1, and pyroclasm x1

HSCK

04-06-2015, 10:16 PM

Congrats on the finish! Have you experimented with Mentor at all?

lost_ronin_soul

04-06-2015, 10:40 PM

Thanks. I have not yet tested mentor but me and my brew buddies have thought about it (a lot) with top. It can be gross but it would be better to cast mentor turn 4 cast, preferable after an end of turn lead with Vendilion clique to clear removal. But my deck is really foiled and if I was to pick any up I would need them foiled :(. I had a judge called to check foil/non foil consistencies when I started round 8. My deck passed (because most cards are foiled out)but I have to be careful.

HSCK

04-06-2015, 10:56 PM

Best reason not to test ever haha

lost_ronin_soul

04-07-2015, 10:17 PM

Well I do think mentor is sweet and is worth testing. right now its hard to find room to test him. What should get cut for the three drop. Vendilion clique is too good cut being blue, having flash, evasion, and 3 power. Its a tough fit and most likely would compete for snap caster slots, which is fine for the most part with the slightest impact on pros vrs cons. I do like how snapcaster generates card advantage against spot removal though, where mentor can threaten to win in about 2-4 turns generally if not answered. Pros and cons...pros and cons...

beez

04-08-2015, 03:34 AM

Did you ever have trouble keeping a threat out with your own Terminus?

lost_ronin_soul

04-08-2015, 07:20 PM

Did you ever have trouble keeping a threat out with your own Terminus?
The way the last configuration works basically gives me more value at the end of terminus. For example, most of the time I get a trigger effect from any of my 9 creatures, which is most of the time equivalent to getting an extra card in hand (like snapcaster using a instant, or SFM fetching an equipment). This is why I do not run True-name nemsis in my list. I can potentially "2 for one" myself if I need to terminus a single threat and I have a TNN out. So that's why all my creatures have Enter The Battlefield triggers. Even if I have to sacrifice a creature to a terminus to deal with a must answer threat, I am usually end up a little farther ahead than my opponents. It also helps 6 creatures can flash in after a terminus and get powered up by lingering equipment, let alone Batterskull recreating a germ token ability. When I am ahead in board state I simply don't cast it. Vendilion clique can also be bounced back to the hand with karakas, before I commit to terminus. All my creatures can be bounce with jace unless equipped with the Sword Of Fire and Ice. Termius also helps protect and/or clear the way for Jace. Resolving Jace normally puts me ahead. Untapping with jace normally wins me the game. Terminus protects THAT threat. I personally view Terminus as wrath of god @ 1CMC with a chance to play at instant speed. And unlike supreme verdict , Its easier to cast against decks that run wasteland/stifle/rishidan port with a heavy creature base. So yes occasionally I have to terminus my own dudes, but their triggers compensate for their sacrifices. The most unhappy thing I'd terminus away is a vendilion clique with a sword of fire and ice, and that is easy enough to recover from with any creature I play if the sword isn't answered.

beez

04-10-2015, 12:51 PM

That is very clever. I like the build and will keep an eye on its progress. I run patriot delver right now so I don't have the Jaces or Karakas to try yours out right now but I can see the appeal and it does a great job of making UWR work together well which can fight itself a little sometimes .

lost_ronin_soul

04-10-2015, 06:46 PM

Thanks for the compliment. :) Jace's are far more important then karakas to make the deck. Karakas can be subbed out for basic plains, tundra, or academy ruins (great with Engineered explosions from the side, and recurring destroyed/countered equipment). And I know the struggle you are talking about. It can be by needing to fetch carefully (rare), or the swords to plowshares working against lightning bolt and delver attacks. Between Jace and terminus in the main and EE and verdict from the side, its much easier to handle things outside of bolt range.