MTGtheSource Online Legacy Open?

[mini1337s]

Not sure if this idea has been discussed or not, but from a quick search, I didn't see any previous threads.
Koby ran a Vintage Openhttp://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24743-The-Source-Vintage-Open-2012 in October, and since then I've thought it would be cool if the same thing was done for Legacy.

Cockatrice seems like it would be the best program to play matches through. It's worked out a lot of bugs and quirks over the last six months, and it gives everyone the option to play whatever deck they choose. Cockatrice's spectating function also opens up an opportunity for someone/s to do commentary for the T8 matches, while streaming to Twitch/recording to Youtube.

Just wondering if anyone else had any interest participating. I thought it would probably work best as a small series of independant matches, basically spread over a period of 4-6 weeks, where each pairing has a week to schedule a time to play out their match. Once a T8 was decided, maybe they could decide on a time with someone who currently does Magic commentary, and that could be livestreamed or recorded and posted on Youtube. In terms of prize support, we could look at donations, or maybe just a custom username banner for the forums (that would be an admin's call of course).

Thoughts or suggestions? Good idea, worst thing ever?

[balthor]

I like this idea. Im in for sure :)

[KobeBryan]

I'm in. We can send the money for entrance fee and use it to distribute after top 8

[Chikenbok]

If you can figure out the logistics, I'm in.

Edit: It would probably be helpful to have a rules nazi (erhm... Judge) spectating the matches to make sure everything was kosher.

[Koby]

Edit: It would probably be helpful to have a rules nazi (erhm... Judge) spectating the matches to make sure everything was kosher.

Never thought I'd see the two words used in the same sentence. *tsktsktsk*

[mini1337s]

... rules nazi ... to make sure everything was kosher.

In all seriousness, I agree. Even if there was a Level 1 or 2 here who was on Twitter standby, we could find a way to work around everyone's time differences.

[(nameless one)]

Why do we have to pay for this?

Why can't it be like any online tournament that doesn't involve MTGO?

[burtonbaron62]

I don't think we need any prizes. At least I don't. I would play for bragging rights alone. Although, I probably wouldn't win any of those either.

I'll edit with a deck code if other people wanna play, and someone figures out who i am supposed to play!

[.dk]

yeah, i'd play for sure! prizes or not. although... can someone tell me how the hell i can resolve doomsday properly in cockatrice before we start? :)

[phazonmutant]

yeah, i'd play for sure! prizes or not. although... can someone tell me how the hell i can resolve doomsday properly in cockatrice before we start? :)

Shift-drag your hand to play to "play" your cards face down, tutor the DD cards you want to your hand, stack your deck, then put the face-down cards in your hand.

This sounds like a cool idea! I'd very much prefer to play, but if you need a judge I guess I can.

[Wanderlust]

Count me in as well.

[cogitoergosum]

I would be interested. I like playing on the ones on MTGS. Though, I'm fairly certain that mods will not be ok with people using this site to organize a pay to play tournament.

[kiblast]

I'm in.

[ween]

In, unless the time difference is too much of a problem.

[Viridia]

I'm in for sure :laugh:

[Mantis]

I would like to participate as well. I usually play on MWS, never really tried Cockatrice but I will just play a few games in advance to see if it works. Not playing for prizes seems like it would be a lot easier to set up, but I'm fine either way.

[Megadeus]

Im in. Seems like a fun time.

[klaus]

About 75 oldschool Sourcers played some online tournaments in 2008/9. We did it via MWS, which sucked at times due to crashes, but it was a blast nonetheless. There were no prizes involved and I think no one actually missed that aspect.
I remember Nihil Credo killing me in the finals via Bloodmoon - good times!

[SirTylerGalt]

I'm in, depending on the time differences :)

[AndyTron]

I'm all kinds of in.

[ahg113]

I'm in

[mini1337s]

So it looks like there is a bit of support for this.
Personally, I'm pretty terrible at coordinating/running events, but if someone wanted to take the lead on this, I would be more than happy to help out where I could.

[Koby]

A big challenge will be getting people to report their matchups on time. This would otherwise delay the tournament.

[mini1337s]

A big challenge will be getting people to report their matchups on time. This would otherwise delay the tournament.
Maybe it would be easier to hold this if it was exclusive to North and South America, and maybe another could be held for Europe.

[entity]

Maybe it would be easier to hold this if it was exclusive to North and South America, and maybe another could be held for Europe.

And then an epic top8 or something involving best players from both events.
Or we could just do it without any limitations, don't remember it being too difficult to set up a time for play even when it's 12 hours apart.

[AndyTron]

I'm studying in China, but I have no problem staying up a little late to make times work.

[Julian23]

Count me in. Also for MODO, if we find enough people for that. Althought I have no problem using other apps.

On another note, Cockatrice just (like 5 minutes ago) announced on Facebook that their servers will be down until they have settled some legal conflict that was just brought up. Hasbro?

[Barook]

Maybe it would be easier to hold this if it was exclusive to North and South America, and maybe another could be held for Europe.

Personally, I would prefer to play against people in my timezone as well. I remember when I played in the first SCG MWS Extended online tournament and it was a pain in the ass to meet people from a different timezone.

There are certainly enough Sourcers from Europe to get this thing going.

No prizes would make the entire thing easier. Bragging alone is already worth it.

Edit: Cockatrice being down sucks. How about MWS then?

[Fry]

Cockatrice has that alt. server we could use ( play.woogerworks.com ). I'd be very interested in playing in this just for bragging rights, don't need a prize in my opinion. Also I think that the TO or judge should have a list of what decks each person is playing, I don't think decks lists would be needed, just the name of the deck. Not implying that people would cheat, but having a list of decks would encourage people to use the same deck each round they play.

[alekill]

I believe cockatrice has deck list support I'm not sure if it works anymore since we have to use the woogerworks server though.

[Megadeus]

I mean if nothing else we can just PM decklists or something to the TO

[Dyvith]

Set a date, determine who is running it, and have people send you their deck code on Cockatrice. Then, release pairings, give people x amount of time, perhaps a week, per round to arrange to meet and play. Winner reports, etc. People on Salvation have been doing this for a while, Timur from Jupiter Games runs them on Salvation and he does it very well, I can talk to him about running it for the source if you want.

[thecrav]

I believe cockatrice has deck list support I'm not sure if it works anymore since we have to use the woogerworks server though.

Cockatrice generates a hash value based on your deck list. For example, the hash of my vintage gush ist is 9laq5624 . The hash of your deck is displayed to the other player for exactly this sort of verification.

While it is possible for more than one deck to have the same hash, it is extremely unlikely. It is even more unlikely that two decks that are worth playing would have the same hash. Also, the hash is single direction. That is, knowing the hash of a deck does not allow you to know what the deck is. Theoretically, you could brute force the hash by generating every possible combination of cards, but this wouldn't be worth the time or computational skill required.

All that needs to be done is have all the hashes stored in a public place. Beyond that, we should really trust eachother enough not to go brute forcing the hashes.

[phazonmutant]

All that needs to be done is have all the hashes stored in a public place. Beyond that, we should really trust eachother enough not to go brute forcing the hashes.

That sounds like an interesting challenge. The hashes are pretty short and the cockatrice source code is available...

[thecrav]

That sounds like an interesting challenge. The hashes are pretty short and the cockatrice source code is available...

I forgot about that! I'd imagine they're using one of the standard hashes (MD5, SHA-*, etc) and then shortening it. To you happen to have a link to the code so that we could further investigate? (My google-fu is weak)

Regardless of the hash method, most likely the only easy way to figure out a deck list would be to brute force it. Realistically, this would take a lot of computational force. More importantly to me, we're all ind a friends here. Can't we trust each other at least enough to say that we won't attempt to brute force deck list hashes?

[Deviruchi]

I'm in.

Cockatrice on play.woogerworks.com would be the best non-modo option. I have already participated in one of The Source Online Tournaments. It was around 2009 and I managed to top4 and drop due to massive lack of free time. I remember that games were very difficult and I was shivering many times because of stress :) I had only one problem with one match. The opponent waited for me a few hours, I waited a few days and because we both waited and didn't play it was judged as a draw. Anyway I had a great time during this tournament without prizes and I hope we can make it happen again.

[phazonmutant]

I forgot about that! I'd imagine they're using one of the standard hashes (MD5, SHA-*, etc) and then shortening it. To you happen to have a link to the code so that we could further investigate? (My google-fu is weak)

Regardless of the hash method, most likely the only easy way to figure out a deck list would be to brute force it. Realistically, this would take a lot of computational force. More importantly to me, we're all ind a friends here. Can't we trust each other at least enough to say that we won't attempt to brute force deck list hashes?

I can definitely promise that I won't brute-force hashes for competitive edge. I might do it for fun though.

Edit: found a snapshot of the source before the Cease and Desist: http://www.neckbeard.ca/r/magicTCG/comments/19kdcn/cockatrice_source_code_pulled_from_last_git/
Edit2: Looks like cockatrice uses Sha1 to hash a concatenated string of the cards. Relevant function is DeckList::updateDeckHash in common/decklist.cpp. Normally Sha1 would be infeasible to reverse, but fortunately our input domain is tiny!

[LennonMarx]

I'd play.

[Madmaniac21]

In

[thecrav]

I can definitely promise that I won't brute-force hashes for competitive edge. I might do it for fun though.

Edit: found a snapshot of the source before the Cease and Desist: http://www.neckbeard.ca/r/magicTCG/comments/19kdcn/cockatrice_source_code_pulled_from_last_git/
Edit2: Looks like cockatrice uses Sha1 to hash a concatenated string of the cards. Relevant function is DeckList::updateDeckHash in common/decklist.cpp. Normally Sha1 would be infeasible to reverse, but fortunately our input domain is tiny!

Awesome, thanks for the links!

Do we have a specific server we'd want to play on? I know there's a lot of alternate servers that have already been setup.

I'm gonna try installing the server daemon later tonight to see just how resource intensive it is.