Oozing

[Raystar]

Hello Guys,

During the last weeks my play group has been testing a new variant of the Griselbrand/Shallow Grave engine and got some interesting lists.

Before going to the actual list in testing I'd like to thanks the group of people working on Tin Fins for the great job in defining the strategy (I strongly believe is a new archetype) and jamis for creating the first inception (here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25432-Necrotic-Ooze-Reanimator-Pt2-Back-in-(Mono)-Black)) of the list you'll see below.

I'm not sure the deck deserves his own thread, but it behaves very differently from Tin Fins and Reanimator and is built to use a significantly different sideboard strategy.

**UPDATE 28 May 2014**
Updated list merging Pandaman and Raystar lists

2 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion

4 Brainstorm
3 Buried Alive
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
2 Exhume
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
3 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal

2 Bayou
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Exhume
4 Ground Seal
2 Massacre
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize


**UPDATE 14 Feb 2014**
Things have evolved quite a bit since the first release of the deck, you may want yo take a look to the updated lists below and read through the thread to have an idea on how we got where we are

Deck lists of 14 Feb 2014:

Raystar list:

2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

2 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Ponder

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
3 Exhume
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Exhume
4 Ground Seal
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Surgical Extraction


Pandaman list:

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained More
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
3 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard - 15

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
1 Echoing Truth
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic Ooze



The deck tries to combo in various ways:

- Reanimating a Griselbrand (possibly instantly) and drawing into the ooze combo
- Reanimating a Griselbrand and a Necrotic Ooze instantly entombing a Devourer for a lethal attack
- Reanimating a Nectotic Ooze with the combo pieces in the GY

The interesting behaviour of the deck is that you can afford to "slow roll" the opponent and explode when needed as opposed to instant G1 kills.

The rainbowed mana base is needed to support the following sideboard strategy:


4 Abrupt Decay
4 Echoing Truth
4 Ground Seal
3 Surgical Extraction


The selection above should take care of pretty much all the hate that might be directed to the deck. It is still a work in progress and we are debating/changing it pretty much every day. An additional proposal for a transformational strategy we are considering is:


4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Nantuko Shade
2 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Abrupt Decay


The deck has an incredibly strong G1 strategy even against heavy countermagic based decks. G2/G3 is where the issues are, to list some of them:

- Varied GY hate that forces you to side in many pieces of your sideboard tools, diluting the strategy too much
- An opposing hand of: disruption/countermagic, Liliana, grave hate is very very very difficult to overcome

We are actively developing the deck and would welcome any help/support in testing and providing feedback.

I apologize if some of my english appears to be weird...it's not my natural language :)

[Julian23]

This is so exciting I'm shitting my pants. I don't know if it's any better than Tin Fins but I love what's currently going on over here regarding the whole Shallow Grave thing. I don't like the creature-based sideboard but Ground Seal seems like good tech vs. Surgical Extraction...although I think I'd still rather have Pull from Eternity because of the possibility of them leaving in Abrupt Decay.

Would be so incredibly great if you could post some gameplay videos of this! Do it!

[Raystar]

This is so exciting I'm shitting my pants. I don't know if it's any better than Tin Fins but I love what's currently going on over here regarding the whole Shallow Grave thing. I don't like the creature-based sideboard but Ground Seal seems like good tech vs. Surgical Extraction...although I think I'd still rather have Pull from Eternity because of the possibility of them leaving in Abrupt Decay.

Would be so incredibly great if you could post some gameplay videos of this! Do it!

Yes, it's very exciting to be "surfing" this new wave, lot of interesting interactions and tons of fun (of course).

One of the reasons I'm not so sure about the actual sideboard configuration is exactly due to the fact that it's fragile to removal (Decay->Ground Seal). I'm actually thinking that a sideboard of this kind:

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Echoing Truth
3 Ground Seal
3 Surgical Extraction

With 3 flex slots (that could definitely go to Pull from Eternity, thx for that) usable to address a specific meta. Against BUG you could bring in 3 Ground Seal and 3 Pull from Eternity and pretty much answer everything they could throw at you.

[klaus]

No Brainstorm in a x/U deck trying to assemble stuff makes kittehs cry. :cry:
Edit: Entomb and Buried ALive even up your shuffle effects to 15 (16 counting Intuition though it'd be the first spell I cut to make room for BSs)

[Raystar]

No Brainstorm in a x/U deck trying to assemble stuff makes kittehs cry. :cry:
Edit: Entomb and Buried ALive even up your shuffle effects to 15 (16 counting Intuition though it'd be the first spell I cut to make room for BSs)

I get what you mean regarding the BS. They are in and out our plans for the deck continuously: on one side they streamline the deck and do what BS does (always fantastically well), on the other side you are then forced to keep hands on the "promise" that you'll see business through BS instead to mulligan into a winner...

I personally look at them every other day but the deck (in testing) seems to function very consistently without.

From a tournament perspective we only have a very small one under the wings. Two of us went there with the deck sleeved, I scrubbed because I'm just bad at playing Magic :) but my pal won the tournament with ease. He only lost 2 games (4 rounds and T4) in the 6 rounds he played: one was to a double leyline (we were playing krosan grips instead of echoing truths) and the other to a top decked tormod's crypt the turn after he had destroyed one with decay.

The deck doesn't seem to be in "non-negotiable" need of BS but we'll give it a more thorough test and let you know :) (I would urge you to do the same and let us know if possible, more eyes/hands are always welcome).

[klaus]

I get what you mean regarding the BS. They are in and out our plans for the deck continuously: on one side they streamline the deck and do what BS does (always fantastically well), on the other side you are then forced to keep hands on the "promise" that you'll see business through BS instead to mulligan into a winner...

I personally look at them every other day but the deck (in testing) seems to function very consistently without.

From a tournament perspective we only have a very small one under the wings. Two of us went there with the deck sleeved, I scrubbed because I'm just bad at playing Magic :) but my pal won the tournament with ease. He only lost 2 games (4 rounds and T4) in the 6 rounds he played: one was to a double leyline (we were playing krosan grips instead of echoing truths) and the other to a top decked tormod's crypt the turn after he had destroyed one with decay.

The deck doesn't seem to be in "non-negotiable" need of BS but we'll give it a more thorough test and let you know :) (I would urge you to do the same and let us know if possible, more eyes/hands are always welcome).

Your perspective is distorted. No partially blue-based combo deck would ever consider excluding BS. Remember that the inclusion also maximaizes the availability of your SB cards.

[alderon666]

I get what you mean regarding the BS. They are in and out our plans for the deck continuously: on one side they streamline the deck and do what BS does (always fantastically well), on the other side you are then forced to keep hands on the "promise" that you'll see business through BS instead to mulligan into a winner...

Really? Cmon. It's very different when you compare Belcher playing Gitaxian Probe opens up a hand with one of those and a combo deck with Brainstorm. Brainstorm let's you draw THREE cards and then possibly shuffle away 2 of the worst cards in your hand back in your deck.

In TES for example, T1 Brainstorm on the play is actually a real play, because it can turn that hand that was almost there into a T1 kill.

The only excuse you can give to justify not playing BS in a combo deck that has blue, is not having access to a lot of shuffle effects. Then BS becomes somewhat subpar and keeping a bad hand trusting on BS to get you out, will get you locked out once you brick the top 3.

[.Ix]

Nice deck, Raystar. It looks like a blast to play! I'm with you on Brainstorm, though. I don't think ANYTHING is an auto-include unless it's part of a necessary combo so just keep testing until you can finally decide. I'll try to test this and see what I come up with.

[civet five]

Reanimate targets. Exhume and Shallow Grave do not target. Is this correct for Ground Seal?

This is an amazing idea and hats off.

[jamis]

I've still been debating DireLemming's suggestion of Cavern of Souls. There's been some games where I had to mulligan an otherwise keepable hand because of it, but there's been other games where I won and wouldn't have been able to win without it.

I've also only been able to take my list to 2 events. The first time I went 2-1 taking third, the other I went 0-3. Its been hard for me getting any tournament testing in due to my LGS having troubles getting enough people every week and due to me playing different decks.

[Raystar]

Yesterday we sleeved the deck and took it to a 30 people tournament (small attendance but very good players) that was a qualifier for the Bazaar of Moxen (biggest Eternal event in Europe).

We did very well, there were 2 of us in the room and we both placed in Top8 with my buddy loosing in the final. the list that I took there is:


2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs

3 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
2 Reanimate

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal


As you can see we included the brainstorms, after some testing the deck was performing well with them and they also offer some protection to discard. I also additionally splashed W for Pull from Eternity in the sideboard.

My sideboard:


3 Abrupt Decay
3 Echoing Truth
4 Ground Seal
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pull from Eternity


Pull from Eternity was sided in as "insurance" pretty much every game but didn't really contribute, it will need more testing. I'll give you my thoughts on the development directions that I think make sense after the report.

I was very nervous at the start of the tournament (I'm old but I still behave like a kid when I play :) ), it felt like an examination and I hate those ;)

Round 1 - Andrea with Jund
G1: he starts with Bloodstained Mire, I make him on combo. I had kept an hand that only needed acceleration to combo out, I draw ritual like a champ and proceed to Turn 1 combo him by binning Griselbrand with entomb, reanimate it with shallow grave and draw 21. Hands are shacking and I don't have any idea of what he plays. I side out the brainstorms and the reanimate for the 4 Ground Seal and the 2 Pull from Eternity.
G2: I punt twice, I'm so nervous that I don't see a line to combo out and I also fetch from bayou when I could have used a Swamp. I'm an idiot and I deserve to die to Hymn to Tourach and Wasteland.
G3: Try to get a grip on myself and...I punt again :( I "forget" that I have a petal in hand to make a Buried Alive a turn earlier and I expose myself to discard for an additional turn. Luckily he doesn't have the discard and the turn after I exhume an ooze for the kill

1-0-0 and I need to start playing as the deck deserves...

Round 2 - Diego with UWR Delver
G1 - I keep a mana rich hand with Griselbrand and 2 discard. I start and play Thoughtseize that steals FoW, he plays delver and pass. I topdeck a second ritual and I have enough mana in hand to hard cast Griselbrand next turn, play land, cabal therapy for spell pierce and pass. I don't remember his play but the turn after I play Griselbrand and it's easy from that point. I sideboard the usual 4 Ground Seal and 2 Pull from Eternity for 1 Grisel, 1 ooze, 2 reanimate, 1 exhume and 1 entomb.
G2 - I mulligan to 6 and keep a weak hand with discard. he opens with delver and Tormod's Crypt...ok, it's not going to be easy but still doable :) I do thoughtseize and discover spell pierce and relic of progenitus...ugh...discard relic and try to assemble the mana to hardcast ooze hoping that I could sneak in an attack followed by entombing devourer for lethal. I got hit by delver while trying to assemble my play and the turn I could make my move he plays vendilion clique removing ooze and I'm dead. Ok, change of sideboard: ground seal is out and 3 decays and a chain of vapor come in.
G3 - He doesn't see any GY hate but has counters and StP in hand. I discard a pierce and manage to get Grisel in play. Grisel gets plowed but lets me draw enough to combo out the next turn.

2-0-0 It feels better and I got myself under control :)

Round 3 - Luigi, my playing buddy with the same deck.....

Bad luck, but Luigi is also on a winning streak and the chance that we could play one against the other is high. We decide to draw and get some lunch

2-1-0 Next game is going to be relevant for the Top8, I'm feeling nervous again :)

Round 4 - Roberto with EsperBlade

Roberto is the other member of the playing team, he couldn't sleeve the deck because he was lacking 2 Shallow Graves. It's tough luck that we have to play but we can't draw now...

G1: The deck does what it does and I combo out through counters. I side out as I did for Round 2.
G2: He goes land, Grafdigger's Cage...shit my only out now is an hard casted ooze with business in the yard. He manages to land some clock and I can't get where I need to be...Change in sideboard: same stuff out but I bring in 3 AD, a Ground Seal (I was sure he also had some extraction effect) and 2 Pull from eternity.
G3: I keep an hand with 2 AD and a Pull from eternity that gets quickly slaughtered by discard. After loosing the 2 ADs he also enlightened tutor for Cage and I'm in deep shit again. I manage to discard the FoW he is holding and sneak in a buried alive for Devourer, Triskelion and ooze. My outs are either ooze or one of the two remaining responses to Cage (AD and echoing truth), he is out of counters and during my draw step plays his last card: Vendilion Clique! I'm already being beaten a snapcaster and I will only have 1 turn after this one to find an answer...things are looking veeery bad. Vendilion removes the brainstorm I couldn't cast (didn't have U on the board) and it gets replaced by...OOZE!! I look at my friend, call for divine retribution and play the ooze from my hand.

3-1-0 I can draw into Top 8 and that is exactly what happens

3-2-0 Now the tricky part starts...

Top 8 - Davide with BUG Tempo (Shaman+surgical extraction+FoW+Daze+flusterstorm+wasteland+delver+goys+Clique... :( )

A bad match-up, I know that I need to be fast to avoid the horrible combination of counters+clock+discard+denial...

G1: I start and keep a perfect T1 kill hand. It's risky but my thinking is that I have to be all in to avoid to put online his additional counters and discard, if I start immediately he only has FoW to stop me...and he do have one in hand :) My exhume gets countered and he lands a delver. I manage to recover in some way and shallow grave the grisel that I binned in T1, attack and...he plays dismember! I didn't see that coming, Grisel only hits for 2 and I'm only able to draw 7. It's not enough to combo out, a Venidilion joins the party and I'm dead soon after. It's going to be veery tough now, I sideboard as in Round 2 and cross my fingers.
G2: another T1 kill hand with Shallow Grave...I go all in again (I don't have discard in hand to check anyway) and Grisel gets extracted. He shows his hands to make me concede and he has an active FoW and 2 flusterstorm...I decide to try anyway but I don't last long...

My buddy lost against the same deck in the final (he promised he would come here for a quick report). We are soft to that horrible combination of multiple GY hate+counters+denial+clock, it's basically our worst match-up.

My thoughts are:

- We need to address a more effective sideboard plan: I went in with a catch-all side that only partially work
- The deck is very very strong: Luigi managed to beat 2 ANT along the way and we were able to beat permission easily if it wasn't coupled with too much additional hate
- Brainstorms are good. The additional fragility of having to fetch for USea earlier is balanced by their strength. They are going to stay in
- Pull from Eternity is neat but I really don't like to have to splash W...we'll have to find a way around that, especially because they weren't relevant enough

I went back home sad that we couldn't pull out a win but very happy that our first "official" exit with the deck granted us a Top 8 and a Top 2. In retrospect I would have never hoped for the result.

Try the deck, is awesome :D

[Giggioz]

Hi all,

i'm a legacy player and Raystar's friend, i helped him the last days in developing his brilliant idea and testing the deck a bit.
Yesterday we brought the deck (updated version) to a ca. 30 people tournament.

We played two slightly different decklists but both included brainstorm as you suggested.

Here my list


2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
4 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp
3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
2 Reanimate
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Echoing Truth
3 Ground Seal
3 Pyrexyan Obliterator
2 Desecration Demon
3 surgical extraction
Maindeck is quite tested and seems solid, it's not new to one-turn wins. Brainstorm makes the deck flowing smoothly and in one particular game gave me a new option to combo out (see Turn 2)

Sideboard is still a issue because we need to many cards to deal with the different grave hate (ground seal, echoing and decays) but the last showed here can be a new and interesting starting point as i wanted to add an option to the deck strategy.
The other cards are there for combo/grave based deck (surgical, it was great) and i put 5 cards to change plan in some matchups.
I wanted to have 4 obliterator but i didn't find them so i mixed 2 desecration demon and they did their job.

Now i'm going to write something about the tournament but i didn't take note of anything so sorry for the lack of infoes.

Turn 1 - vs ANT
The player i met it's one of the best legacy player in Rome and he frequently changes deck.
He starts with u sea and ponder and i put him on ant... but it doesn't change too much, i combo him out turn 1 protecting my combo with cabal therapy calling force of will (just to be sure) !!! Such a great moment to start the tournament :)
G2 he starts again pondering, i seize him and take out preordein, leaving him another ponder to extract with surgical... his discards destroy my pieces too but i go for beatdown with ooze and triskelion and i got the win.
2-0

Turn 2 - vs Pox
He pass the turn with bayou, i put him on jund and with therapy i call tourach that he have... i see bojuka bog and a small pox... he plays small pox helping me to assemble the combo :)
He tries to cut my mana sources with sinkholes and wasteland but i'm able to see a ritual and combo him out.
G2 i see a crop rotation in his hand so first i put ooze in to play and, thanks to a brainstorm, i was able to reshuffle a triskelion to put the pieces in the graveyard with buried alive, he has no chance to stop my combo with his instant bojuka.
2-0

Turn 3 - Mirror (Raystar)
I.D. of course :)

Turn 4 - UWR
This deck packs mistic, geist, bolt, counters, delvers...i have a very good hand missing only a reanimate spell... he equips a mistic with sword of feast and famine but fortunatly is short in blue mana...this gives me the opportunity to draw several cards while he beats me down and finally i find a reanimate spell. GG
G2 is the first game where i go for transformational, i put 9 cards in:
+3 obliterator
+2 desacration
+2 decays
+2 echoing

The last two are to answer to his delvers and his possibile grave hate

I like the way i sided out
-2 entomb
-1 imp
-1 ooze
-2 grisel
-2 buried alive
-1 exhume

This kind of sideboarding leaves me the option to combo or to play at least 1 griselbrand.

He keeps an hand with counters and 2 swords to plowshares i see 3 beasts and i play them in sequence... when one sticks on the ground i start beating...i got the opportunity to combo him out but the obliterator won me the game anyway. Nice!
2-0

Turn 5 - vs ANT
Another very good player that wanted to play (we were first and second) and i nodded since that it's the first time after a long time that i feel 50/50 vs ANT :)
He won the dice and starts...i put pressure on him and i'm ready to combo him out next turn.. he knows that and tries to combo...after some shuffling effects he see the last card with sensei (LED) and goes off :/
I don't remember the G2 but i guess he won again, sorry.
0-2

Top8 - vs ANT
Another ANT deck piloted by a friend of mine, he's very good (again).
I start and i'm able to entomb griselbrand before he seizes me seeing 2 reanimate spell and losing that fast.
G2 once again surgical extraction wins me the game after i call infernal tutor with therapy and take it out from the game.
2-0

Top4 - vs Monoblack (!)

The first game is pretty sweet since i combo him out turn 1 (i should not get used to this feeling, it's addictive, i play usually fair decks :P)
In G2 i go for transformationl since i think he's going to pack some discards spell + surgical/extirpate...he has an early confidant, he keeps me tight with discards and when i try to combo him out he has extirpate for my griselbrand.
In G3 unfortunatly something wrong happened: i restored the deck with just 3 ground seal from the sideboard and i played one of them, after that i reanimate his confidant and only 2 turns after we recognized the fact that i couldn't do it because of ground seal.
The judge gave us a warning and said we had to continue the game with the confidant on my side, i'm very sorry for that huge mistake even because i played against a nice guy that i meet often in tournament. Anyway, the game goes crazy, i start to lose lifes with confidant and he kicks my ass with an obliterator while a tormod keeps me on check.
Crucial moment: to save my life i therapied my confidant and i try to shallow grave griselbrand in his eot to force him to use tormod...and he didn't... well, i draw 7 going to 1... and in my turn i tried to combo him out... he extended his hand and i understood he didn't was aware of the fact that tormod works under ground seal! That was weird but i was so happy to be on top2!
Sorry again for the mistake.

Top2 - vs BUG
Another friend, another good player.
G1 I seize him a force of will and i was able to combo him easily.
G2 i go for transofrmational and he mulls to 4!!! i mull to 6 with a good hand for the combo plan and only one swamp... i keep because i thought i had time to draw another land... he starts land+shaman, i play seize he dazes me...he has good draws and put pressure with delver and goyf i never see the second land to win.
G3 i'm not sure if to follow plan A (combo) or B (monsters) because i see him shaman and surgical... i had to start so i decided to be fast and going for the combo plan... unfortunatly i see in his hand 2 flusterstorm after he played a delver putting pressure on me... i had to make some risky plays trying to quickly answer his clock... we play some turns where he countered some plays... after a cabal i saw he didn't have any hate/counter in his hand and i was able the turn after to reanimate griselbrand... he brainstormed, i tried a reanimate spell ... but he played extirpate kicking me out of the game... so close!

So... second place for me and top8 for Raystar too, i think it's a good result for this deck even if the size of the tournament was not that big.

The deck seems a serious business, in G1 it's solid and difficult to stop, once in he while it grants turn 1 combo or at least an attacking griselbrand that is not so bad :)

G2&3 are tricky because the grave hate is usually pretty different and you don't know how to sideboard. The transformational option seems good even because you may sneak out a turn 2 (even turn 1...) obliterator which it didn't happen to me but it's possible :)

In the whole tournament i won only one game with the B plan but i didn't use it so often.

Brainstorm was a good addition for sure.

That's all folks, i hope this post can be helpful to the community in developing this interesting deck.
See u!

[Raystar]

Reanimate targets. Exhume and Shallow Grave do not target. Is this correct for Ground Seal?

This is an amazing idea and hats off.

Thanks mate :) It is actually the idea that moved me to start testing the deck. It works well and it helps creating an hostile environment for the opponent.

[Raystar]

I've still been debating DireLemming's suggestion of Cavern of Souls. There's been some games where I had to mulligan an otherwise keepable hand because of it, but there's been other games where I won and wouldn't have been able to win without it.

I've also only been able to take my list to 2 events. The first time I went 2-1 taking third, the other I went 0-3. Its been hard for me getting any tournament testing in due to my LGS having troubles getting enough people every week and due to me playing different decks.

Hey Jamis, thanks for touching base. Cavern of Souls, while interesting in theory, prevents you from a lot of sideboard options because it limits your colour choices. It is also non-fetchable and too situational.

The mana base I have played yesterday is already very unstable and I wouldn't be able to play Caverns right now. My thinking at the moment is that if permission is an issue (and it only partially is) it would be better to either up the count of discards options or try a transformational sideboard to blank all the spell-aimed permission.

[Raystar]

My actual thoughts after having seen Koby landing the finals in Vegas:

- Oozing is slightly less soft to UW: we can hardcast the ooze after clearing removal from their hand and kill RiP with AD to combo out. It's not super fast but it is an out that is not available to Tin Fins

- Tin Fins is faster than Oozing: its higher speed comes from more cantrips and a fully instant reanimation suite. At the same time Tin Fins has to pass through the graveyard to put a creature into play and combo, Oozing can cast the ooze and combo. This makes Oozing a little softer than Tin Fins to Tempo but stronger against everything else (especially in G2).

- I'm thinking that Oozing plays too many lands. I'm going to try 1 less Swamp to insert 1 Chrome Mox

- Children of Korlys could also fit in Oozing. I'm already playing a Scrubland, I could remove the third Griselbrand for it.

Just a bunch of thrown together ideas, please feel free to bash/add to them.

[.Ix]

I've tested this deck a bit and I think it's very powerful. While it's a little slower than Tinfins, it does get nice bonuses in that it doesn't get shut down by Ethersworn Canonist and can combo out even when Teeg is in play. Children could definitely fit, and I think the deck can support more than one Chrome Mox. I've had many hands with redundant cards but lots of disruption, so maybe a few Ponder or Careful Study could make it into the deck in addition to the Brainstorms. Hell maybe Spoils of the Vault could work.

[Raystar]

I've tested this deck a bit and I think it's very powerful. While it's a little slower than Tinfins, it does get nice bonuses in that it doesn't get shut down by Ethersworn Canonist and can combo out even when Teeg is in play. Children could definitely fit, and I think the deck can support more than one Chrome Mox. I've had many hands with redundant cards but lots of disruption, so maybe a few Ponder or Careful Study could make it into the deck in addition to the Brainstorms. Hell maybe Spoils of the Vault could work.

It's good that you mentioned Spoils of the Vault, I was actually considering it, especially if we manage to sneak a Children in. I'll test it also and let you guys know.

[Raystar]

Actual list in testing (6 March 2013):

3 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs

3 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
2 Reanimate

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox


Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Echoing Truth
3 Ground Seal
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Phyrexian Vatmother


The changes are basically the exchange of a Swamp and a Chrome Mox MD and the addiction of an aggro B plan in sideboard to fight BUG. I have a small tournament on saturday and will test the changes in the field.

[Kar]

I started to test, and this deck is quite powerful, to say the least. I don't know wether I should bring classic TinFins or Oozing at my local tournament, though.

Is Phyrexian Vatmother really better than Phyrexian Obliterator ? I understand that Vatmother is basically a 8-power beatstick, but still, the sac ability can be pretty intimidating.

[Raystar]

I started to test, and this deck is quite powerful, to say the least. I don't know wether I should bring classic TinFins or Oozing at my local tournament, though.

Is Phyrexian Vatmother really better than Phyrexian Obliterator ? I understand that Vatmother is basically a 8-power beatstick, but still, the sac ability can be pretty intimidating.

Yes, Vatmother is a test. I think that Obliterator is a safer bet. I also believe that choosing between Tin Fins and Oozing (a part from personal preference) is a matter of meta: if your meta has a lot of UW Miracles decks then I believe that Oozing has an edge, otherwise you may find Tin Fins slightly faster and better suited in a world of combo (even if Oozing managed to beat several ANTs last Sunday :) ).

[Koby]

You guys are psychos! Congrats!

Queue flying monkey theme from Wizard of Oz~
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10309

Go Go Gadget #Griselbanned!

[dunk]

go go gadget #griselbanned!

seconded.

[Raystar]

You guys are psychos! Congrats!

Queue flying monkey theme from Wizard of Oz~
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10309

Go Go Gadget #Griselbanned!

Hehe thx :)

Luigi tested in another small tournament yesterday and the messages he was sending yesterday night were positive (I'll ask him to make another report). I'm testing again today another experimental sideboard and I'll let you know :)

[nudon]

I really like the innovation on this deck so far. Congrats on the finish! It appears slower than tin fins but not nearly as susceptible to gy hate. Do you think careful study would be a good replacement for putrid imp? I know imp is easier to cast but careful study seems stronger and you're already running underground seas for brainstorm. Ground seal seems pretty sick with ooze, shallow grave, and exhume.

[Raystar]

I really like the innovation on this deck so far. Congrats on the finish! It appears slower than tin fins but not nearly as susceptible to gy hate. Do you think careful study would be a good replacement for putrid imp? I know imp is easier to cast but careful study seems stronger and you're already running underground seas for brainstorm. Ground seal seems pretty sick with ooze, shallow grave, and exhume.

There are pros and cons to Careful Study. The main reason Putrid Imp is there is to provide a discard outlet with ooze in play when you have a piece of the combo in hand and play Buried Alive/Entomb, It's kind more "synergistic" with the rest of the deck. To use Careful Study we would have to raise the density of Grisel/Ooze (like 4/4) and probably lower the density of entomb/reanimation effects, It's a trade off that has not been explored until now because the package is working at the moment, I'm kind of tempted to test it out---we'll see :)

[Raystar]

There are pros and cons to Careful Study. The main reason Putrid Imp is there is to provide a discard outlet with ooze in play when you have a piece of the combo in hand and play Buried Alive/Entomb, It's kind more "synergistic" with the rest of the deck. To use Careful Study we would have to raise the density of Grisel/Ooze (like 4/4) and probably lower the density of entomb/reanimation effects, It's a trade off that has not been explored until now because the package is working at the moment, I'm kind of tempted to test it out---we'll see :)

Rereading what I wrote I think that I didn't make my point in the way I wanted: what I meant is that Putrid Imp is generally binned to provide the ooze with its ability ;)

[nudon]

Rereading what I wrote I think that I didn't make my point in the way I wanted: what I meant is that Putrid Imp is generally binned to provide the ooze with its ability ;)

Your first post was perfectly clear. :) However, wouldn't you normally want to bin griselbrand instead? You can can draw 7/14 to find a thoughtseize/cabal therapy to target yourself. If you don't have mana, you can just discard the combo piece EOT and win on their upkeep. Also, reducing the number of exhume for reanimates would probably speed the deck up a lot at the expense of losing some ground seal value. Great work so far though!

[Raystar]

Your first post was perfectly clear. :) However, wouldn't you normally want to bin griselbrand instead? You can can draw 7/14 to find a thoughtseize/cabal therapy to target yourself. If you don't have mana, you can just discard the combo piece EOT and win on their upkeep. Also, reducing the number of exhume for reanimates would probably speed the deck up a lot at the expense of losing some ground seal value. Great work so far though!

Sooo...lots of good points. I actually verified some of them in my testing today, I'll write a short report tomorrow morning (midnight here and I'm falling asleep :) )but this is a short list of takeaways that I got together today:

- for as much as I love Ground Seal (I was so excited when it came to my mind ;) ), I think that Oozing could use a different sideboard. I'll write down the next evolution tomorrow with the report.
- if Ground Seal goes away the reanimation package will go from 3 Exhume/2 Reanimate to 2 Exhume/3 Reanimate. Reanimate is faster but loosing lifepoints doesn't always works.
- the play where you discard eot after having drawn a bunch of cards with Grizzie only works if you are sure that the opponent doesn't have any way to hit what's in your yard. If I can, I always try to get the ooze in play and only then to bin the combo pieces.

Anyway I won the testing tournament today...the deck felt really overpowered and I'm so scared of a ban of our friend Griselbrand.

Report tomorrow, goodnight!!

[nudon]

Sooo...lots of good points. I actually verified some of them in my testing today, I'll write a short report tomorrow morning (midnight here and I'm falling asleep :) )but this is a short list of takeaways that I got together today:

- for as much as I love Ground Seal (I was so excited when it came to my mind ;) ), I think that Oozing could use a different sideboard. I'll write down the next evolution tomorrow with the report.
- if Ground Seal goes away the reanimation package will go from 3 Exhume/2 Reanimate to 2 Exhume/3 Reanimate. Reanimate is faster but loosing lifepoints doesn't always works.
- the play where you discard eot after having drawn a bunch of cards with Grizzie only works if you are sure that the opponent doesn't have any way to hit what's in your yard. If I can, I always try to get the ooze in play and only then to bin the combo pieces.

Anyway I won the testing tournament today...the deck felt really overpowered and I'm so scared of a ban of our friend Griselbrand.

Report tomorrow, goodnight!!

Sorry I wasn't clear. Rather than using a deck slot on putrid imp, you could bin griselbrand via entomb/buried alive if trisk or devourer are stuck in your hand with an active ooze. Then you can use grizzlebees' ability via ooze to draw and then discard EOT. If they surgical your combo piece on their upkeep, you can just reactivate the trisk/devourer ability again in response.

I'm looking forward to your report. Good job!

[Raystar]

Sorry I wasn't clear. Rather than using a deck slot on putrid imp, you could bin griselbrand via entomb/buried alive if trisk or devourer are stuck in your hand with an active ooze. Then you can use grizzlebees' ability via ooze to draw and then discard EOT. If they surgical your combo piece on their upkeep, you can just reactivate the trisk/devourer ability again in response.

I'm looking forward to your report. Good job!

Ahhh, ok. Yes that is a line of play, even if in that case if you have the combo pieces in the bin and the ooze in play you don't pass the turn :) you just kill them on the spot ;)

Btw, report!!

Small tournament with some experienced players (4 rounds + T4). My list was:

3 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs

3 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
2 Reanimate

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox


Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Ground Seal
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Phyrexian Vatmother
3 Bitterblossom


Some comments/analysis on the list after the report.

Round 1 - Gabriele with Elves
G1 - I had never tested against elves. I had this idea that I could be faster than him and hence not worry but I was a bit nervous because my sideboard didn't really bring anything to hate his combo. During G1 it didn't really matter, I started and after a turn 1 brainstorm I comboed in turn 2 with Griselbrand and killed hinm on the spot after drawing 21. not having anything specifically prepared for the match-up I board in the 3 Ground Seal and 3 Abrupt Decay removing 1 Griselbrand, 2 Reanimate, 1 Buried Alive, 1 Cabal Therapy and 1 Shallow grave.
G2 - It doesn't really matter, he lands some elves and attacks in his turn 2 and 3. I turn 3 kill him by animating an hasted ooze, attacking with it and entombing a devourer after blockers declared (he didn't block) :).
Oozing is just a better combo deck, I have the impression that Elves is not worth any specific sideboard slots.

1 - 0 - 0

Round 2 - Roberto with TES
G1 - He wins the dice roll, Roberto is a belcher player and I'm a bit sad that I'm going to loose without playing a single card. To my surprise and relief he plays a duress and take some combo business but I have some discard also and we destroy each other hand to the point that we are left with mana and little else. the game resolves when I top deck a brainstorm and see ooze and entomb, he doesn't see anything to combo and dies to a +1000/+1000 hardcasted ooze :). I take out 1 Grisel, 1 Exhume and 1 Buried Alive for 3 Surgical Extractions and we go to G2.
G2 - He is one turn faster then me (I'm missing 1 mana to combo) and we move to G3
G3 - Another hand slaughtering but a bit more one sided from my side and I combo out after having discarded tutors from his hand
I haven't seen the Surgical Extractions but it felt as if the match-up is slightly favorable given an higher density of discard and more combo flexibility. The ability to "slow" reanimate griselbrand might be relevant because it prevents them to go for the Empty the Warrens plan.

2 - 0 - 0

Round 3 - Diego with UW Stoneblade
G1 - We go back and forth a little then I combo through Grisel after having cleared the road from counters. Time to transform I remove 2 Grisel, 1 Exhume, 1 Buried Alive, 1 Shallow Grave and 1 entomb for 3 Bitterblossom and 3 Vatmother.
G2 - I DESTROY his hand with 3 Cabal Therapy and a thoughtseize supported by Bitterblossom but I'm not applying pressure (I had to discard a Jace, a Snapcaster, a StP, a Spell Snare and Sord of Feast and Famine that he gets from a top decked Mistyc). I'm at 11 life and I'm planning to start the faerie beatdown (I hadn't seen any more creatures) when he draws Academy ruins for his binned sword... he gets the sword back and equips the misty, not much I can do... I retrospect I should have brought in the decays in addition to the creature package. That's what I do for G3 removing more pieces of the combo.
G3 I start with a quick Vatmother that bring him to 8 poison counters, he then finds a Jace and blockers and prevents me to do more. I land a Bitterblossom and use AD on the Sword of Feast and Famine that he got from Mistyc. I also discard from his hand the Vendillion Clique that he is using in conjuntion with Karakas to block my Vatmother. Time is running short and we go to turns. I need a shallow Grave to use in conjunction with the entomb I have in my hand to "throw" a Vatmother to his face but I fail to find it and we get to a draw.
Not an easy match-up, I'm not sure I fully benefitted from the aggro package and some thoughts are needed to make it more efficient.

2 - 1 - 0

Round 4 - GW Maverick
G1 - I know what he is playing and I enter the match pretty comfortable about G1. Little I knew that the deck would decide to crap on me at this point. I mulligan to 6 and I'm forced to keep an hand (I'm on the play) with 3 lands, 2 Petals and a brainstorm. My brainstorm doesn't see business, he starts fast and I quickly go down without much chance to recover. At a certain point I'm able to exhume a Grisel but I'm at 6 and he has the sigle Path to Exile in his hands...I bring in decays and seals for combo pieces and we go to G2
G2 - I start with land brainstorm and he responds with land + relic of progenitus...hmmmm didn't expect that :) I'm lucky and I have what I need to combo before he untaps the mana to use with the relic, Grisel go out and the usual process unfold.
G3 - One of those crazy hands that allow you to cast Grisel with mana. I do that and it is shortly over.
A little more difficult than I had expected but I had a very unlucky G1.

3 - 1 - 0

T4 - BGW Junk with discard, Lilianas and Shamans
G1 - he starts with land Shaman but I have a turn 1 kill and he dies :) I bring in decays and seals for combo pieces and get ready for G2
G2 - I had taken out 2 Grisel and at on point he has one active shaman, I'm able to exhume with double entomb but I'm stupid enough to use the entombs on Grisel first....it gets exiled and I don't have another, I'm forced to exhume a ooze but I don't have more business, he lands a ton of creature and we go to G3 after I add back in a Grisel :)
G3 - I start land brainstorm. He goes land pass. I do petal ritual land mana ooze, he thinks and says ok. during his turn he lands a shaman and pass with a black mana open (clear evidence of an extirpate :) ). I go land Cabal therapy, he answer extirpating my brainstorms and tapping out, I attack with the ooze and he decides he can take the 4 damage and doesn't block with shaman....wrong!! I entomb devourer and win :)
Tough match up but doable...

T2 - It's getting late and we split

Thoughts:

- I may decide to take green out for 3 scrublands main to use with the following sideboard (I know that you'll call me crazy :) ):

4 Mother of Runes
4 Grand Abolisher
1 Necrotic ooze
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Surgical Extraction


Combo defense and aggro plan in a box :) I love the combo attack from the Ooze and Mother of Runes enables that perfectly! More testing is needed of course, but I'm kind of excited by this sideboard plan

The deck is too strong :) sometime yesterday I felt bad for the people at the receiving end of it. Hope you enjoyed the report and sorry as usual for my bad english.

[somethingdotdotdot]

Quick thought about the transformational sideboard:

If you're adding white, why not just keep the bitterblossoms and add in a mystic package and a couple of geists. The ooze combo can kill at instant speed anyways so you dont really need protection for it if you happen to go off with it. Mystic+blossom+geist gives you a fairly resilient mid-range aggro clock that doesn't rely on the graveyard at all, while also negating spell pierces/flusterstorms that your opponents may board in. Since you have b/w, you could also run 1-2 vindicates to hit counterbalances/rip.

[Raystar]

Quick thought about the transformational sideboard:

If you're adding white, why not just keep the bitterblossoms and add in a mystic package and a couple of geists. The ooze combo can kill at instant speed anyways so you dont really need protection for it if you happen to go off with it. Mystic+blossom+geist gives you a fairly resilient mid-range aggro clock that doesn't rely on the graveyard at all, while also negating spell pierces/flusterstorms that your opponents may board in. Since you have b/w, you could also run 1-2 vindicates to hit counterbalances/rip.

That's a very good idea. I'll think about it a bit today and see what I come up with. Thanks.

[nudon]

Ahhh, ok. Yes that is a line of play, even if in that case if you have the combo pieces in the bin and the ooze in play you don't pass the turn :) you just kill them on the spot ;)

Yeah, all I was saying is that putrid imp isn't really necessary because you can bin griselbrand with an active ooze out anyways. I'm thinking that drawing 7/14 will find you the missing cabal therapy/thoughtseize/lotus petal to discard your trisk/devourer stuck in hand. If you get unlucky and don't find the lotus petal, then discarding trisk/devourer EOT will win you the game on upkeep. :)

With so many ways to "pay 7, draw 7" in this deck, I'm thinking a single children of korlis would be pretty good in the imp's place. It also gives you more value if you entombed devourer (unblocked) and they StP in response. You'll get back a lot of life, which could be too much for any aggro deck to deal with.

[nudon]

- I may decide to take green out for 3 scrublands main to use with the following sideboard (I know that you'll call me crazy :) ):

4 Mother of Runes
4 Grand Abolisher
1 Necrotic ooze
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Surgical Extraction



I would stay away from grand abolisher since it's double white. Obliterator seems like a strong backup strategy though! Why not have the full playset? Good job on the 3-1 finish and thanks for the testing report!

[somethingdotdotdot]

Also a random name for the deck that I just thought of: "Oozie". As in uzi, since one of your main kill cons is to basically machine-gun off the opponent's life total.

Edit: Just did a bit of testing with a white splash, replacing the putrid for a children of korlis. Just the singleton has been pretty amazing. With just that change, the deck can basically play the tinfins game and just go berserk on turn 1 or go longer with ooze shennanigans.

[Darklingske]

Has anyone continued with this deck? I'm very interested, but at the moment I'm still in love with Tin Fins. Although I think that this deck would do better in my current meta (Esperblade, BUG, RUG, TinFins, SneakyShow, Elves).

[Raystar]

Has anyone continued with this deck? I'm very interested, but at the moment I'm still in love with Tin Fins. Although I think that this deck would do better in my current meta (Esperblade, BUG, RUG, TinFins, SneakyShow, Elves).

Yes, we are :)

Preparing for Strasbourg, testing a myriad of different sideboard strategies. There are two we are converging upon:

- Hybrid sideboard with hate answers and beaters
- Full on beaters

The second one seems promising and in a meta that is not prepared may result in interesting results. We are participating to a trial for Strasbourg on Sunday and I'll post the results (even if we have 2 events ion town and we'll probably go to the less populated one to have bigger chances at the byes...hence less significant testing).

The reason why we are still developing the deck instead of going to TinFins is exactly the one you stated: it seems to be more resilient to hate and capable of attacking from more angles.

[Darklingske]

Great! I look forward to your results. I'm going to a GPT also this sunday, but since I have not tested with the deck in real life, I'm still going for TinFins. If only I had the strenght to take the big jump... :smile:

[Raystar]

Quick update: I managed to get my byes for Strasbourg (very small tournament, completely non indicative of performance) but I'm completely dissatisfied with the sideboard I played:


3 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Nantuko Shade
3 Phyrexian Obliterator


Didn't work well against RiP/Helm Miracles and was underwhelming against Esperblade (with Rip and Surgical in the sideboard).

That was my attempt at the most performant aggro transformational I could come up with but no matter how I configure it it is never dense enough to threaten those 2 archetypes.

What I'm going to try next is:


3 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic ooze
4 Abrupt Decay
3 City of Solitude
2 Reverent Silence
2 Inquisition of Kozilek


The idea is to board the following:

Miracles: 4 Abrupt Decay + 2 reverent Silence
EsperBlade: 3 City of Solitude + 3 Abrupt Decay
Tempo (RUG/BUG): 3 City of Solitude + 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Combo: 3 Surgical Extraction + 2 Inquisition of Kozilek

All other match-ups should be about covered by the sideboard.

After the event (that was pretty short) we had time to sit and test and I discovered to my surprise that the deck is strangely resistant to MUD. I had never had the chance to test the match-up and I managed to win 4 out of 5 games going around both hate (chalice, trini and golem) and quick clock. The key was to go Buried Alive+Shallow Grave/Exhume or Ooze+Buried Alive while attacking their hand. I won a game with my opponent board made of: trini,golem, chalice at 1 and revoker on ooze...I killed the revoker end of his turn with AD (payed 4), casted BA in my turn, passed and reanimated the turn after....

More testing before Strasbourg and a bigger tournament (family permitting ;) ) on the 7th.

[.dk]

City of Solitude is boss. I had been trying to make it work in Tin Fins for a while, but couldn't deal with having to slow down to cast it. Since this deck is a bit slower already, you're in a better position to cast and resolve it, and then proceed to combo the following turn, since you're already set up to deal with being a bit slower.

A couple things we've been testing in Tin Fins as well that may help are Serenity and Teferi's Realm. Either may be doable with slight manabase tweaks. Just a thought, anyway.

Good work on helping to get #griselbanned!

[Raystar]

City of Solitude is boss. I had been trying to make it work in Tin Fins for a while, but couldn't deal with having to slow down to cast it. Since this deck is a bit slower already, you're in a better position to cast and resolve it, and then proceed to combo the following turn, since you're already set up to deal with being a bit slower.

A couple things we've been testing in Tin Fins as well that may help are Serenity and Teferi's Realm. Either may be doable with slight manabase tweaks. Just a thought, anyway.

Good work on helping to get #griselbanned!

Yes, City is very strong. I actually liked Ground Seal a lot (especially because it was MY idea and I'm sentimental about it :tongue: ) but City allows us to reduce the amount of anti-hate to bring in against decks that use multiple hate sources (surgical extraction + artifact hate, for example). In this way the combo is less diluted and the deck should flow better.

I actually tried teferi's realm as soon as you guys started looking at it, it's very good against miracle but it exposes the mana base a bit too much against tempo. To play it we have to add a basic island and in testing I got mad every time I drew a hand with a U one lander :smile:

To be honest I don't think that Griselbrand will get banned...S&T on the other hand...

In any case I think that TinFins is promoting the #griselbanned cause a lot better than oozing :wink:

[.dk]

For now, maybe. Oozing has a lot going for it, as it is much less vulnerable to storm type hate. That was always one of the attractive things to me about Necrotic Ooze (I tested him in one of the very early builds of Tin Fins) - you go infinite without casting spells.

And anyone who is working on using Griselbrand as a Bargain effect is helping the #griselbanned effort - don't sell your deck short! It's incredibly powerful with a lot of potential. I sure hope you're wrong though - I have pretty much 0 issues with SnT. Griselbrand on the other hand...

[Raystar]

OK, crazy sideboard idea...

4 Doomsday
3 Pithing Needle
2 Personal Tutor
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn
1 Cloud of Faeries
3 Surgical Extraction

It should be a beating against Miracles and Esperblade, not so much against Tempo but the needles and the faeries should help a lot there...all the instant ins/outs go away, you also remove 2 Griselbrands, one exhume and the chrome mox.

It allows the deck to go U/B with 4 USea and 3 basic swamps (I like that a lot!!), 2 ponder are added to the main and if I go with only 2 Griselbrands I may add a 3rd.

I have done very limited testing against my son and it seemed to work fine but it's really still in the air, what do you guys think?

I'm really trying to explore all possibilities (as you have certainly noted :wink: ) and I'm open to any suggestion.

[.dk]

Doomsday is going to be a bit rough without Gitaxian Probe or Sensei's Diving Top. Furthermore, it looks like you're all in on the Shelldock plan, which makes you very vulnerable to Karakas and Wasteland. I see you have needles and all, but that seems a bit sporty to always be forced to pass the turn.

[Raystar]

Doomsday is going to be a bit rough without Gitaxian Probe or Sensei's Diving Top. Furthermore, it looks like you're all in on the Shelldock plan, which makes you very vulnerable to Karakas and Wasteland. I see you have needles and all, but that seems a bit sporty to always be forced to pass the turn.

You are right. As I said I have very limited testing done with a very limited number of decks, it's probably just a naive idea :)

[Wincheee]

Hey guys! I love the deck idea,i was playing the "old" s urvivalOoze combo,but,can someone explainme how u combo kill in 1rst turn?

I undertant 2 rituals,buried alive,and a reanimate spell,but going ritual entomb grizz and shallow u need draw a lot of petals and rituals/buried alive/exhume,all in 21 cards...

[Raystar]

Hey guys! I love the deck idea,i was playing the "old" s urvivalOoze combo,but,can someone explainme how u combo kill in 1rst turn?

I undertant 2 rituals,buried alive,and a reanimate spell,but going ritual entomb grizz and shallow u need draw a lot of petals and rituals/buried alive/exhume,all in 21 cards...

The turn 1 kill is almost always through a reanimated Griselbrand. Drawing the mana and the combo pieces happens a lot more consistently than you think. The usual combo turn for Oozing is the second btw, you setup during the first one (or check the opponent hand with discard) and you go off with additional mana during the second turn.

Try it, it works a lot better than it looks :)

[Raystar]

Testing tonight with the following sb:

3 City of Solitude
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Reverent Silence
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Necrotic Ooze


my SB plan for G2 will be (G3 will be tuned depending on what I see):

RiP Miracles:
- In: 3 Reverent Silence, 2 Abrupt Decay
- Out: 1 Grisebrand (I play 3), 1 Exhume, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Reanimate, 1 Buried Alive

BUG:
- In: 3 City of Solitude, 1 Necrotic ooze, 1 Inquisition of Kozilek
- Out: 2 Griselbrand, 2 Exhume, 1 Chrome Mox

RUG:
- In: 3 City of Solitude, 1 Necrotic ooze, 1 Inquisition of Kozilek
- Out: 1 Griselbrand, 2 Exhume, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Buried Alive

EsperBlade:
- In: 3 city of Solitude, 1 Necrotic ooze, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
- Out: 2 Griselbrand, 2 Exhume, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Buried Alive

Storm Combo:
- In: 3 Surgical Extraction, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
- Out: 2 Reanimate, 2 Griselbrand, 1 Chrome Mox

S&T:
- 3 Reverent Silence, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
- 2 Exhume, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Shallow Grave, 1 Buried Alive

The rest is a bit up in the air, I'll have to play it as I go :)

[Darklingske]

So, how is testing going? I still have not dared to play this awesome list in a tournament. With the GP looming on the horizon, I'm debating wich deck I should take. Elves because I know it inside out, or Oozing because I think it is awesome and more fun to play? I think I will take Oozing to a grinder and decide after that...
And thanks for the sideboarding plan! Nice to see how someone boards who is familiar with the deck.

[Raystar]

So, how is testing going? I still have not dared to play this awesome list in a tournament. With the GP looming on the horizon, I'm debating wich deck I should take. Elves because I know it inside out, or Oozing because I think it is awesome and more fun to play? I think I will take Oozing to a grinder and decide after that...
And thanks for the sideboarding plan! Nice to see how someone boards who is familiar with the deck.

I'll be at the GP and I'll bring Oozing :) I still have one full night of testing (tonight), one tournament (Sunday) and possibly another test session next week... I don't think there will be huge changes until next week, but you never know ;)

After having spent so much time on the deck I'm starting to loose focus and I fear I could screw it up if I change too much, I guess the tournament on Sunday will really be the reality check on where we are.

[Darklingske]

Well, in that case, hope it goes well for you and I'll hope to see you in the top 8 at the GP across the table from me ;)

[Raystar]

Well, in that case, hope it goes well for you and I'll hope to see you in the top 8 at the GP across the table from me ;)

Hehe that would be really cool :)

[Raystar]

Very small tournament yesterday, didn't go extremely well but I got the chance to test the following:

Main Deck

2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs

2 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
1 Exhume
3 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave

4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual


Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
3 City of Solitude
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Necrotic Ooze
3 Reverent Silence
3 Surgical Extraction


I finished 2 wins and 2 losses, here you go with a quick report with my analysis.

R1: Marco with GUB Aluren:

G1: I don't see any reanimation spell and he has the time to shred my hand with 2 Therapies (flashbacked, that makes them 4 :) ). When I finally see a reanimation he has the counter for it and then I die from Vendilion Clique beats. I sideboard in 3 AD and 2 Surgicals taking out 1 Gris, 2 ponders (you'll notice a trend here...), 1 Ooze and 1 mox.
G2: I flood, as stupid as it can be with the small amount of mana the deck plays, I top deck nothing after having discarded and extracted his Living Whishes...

I entered the match pretty confident but the deck didn't really love me, I didn't see what I had to see and it just felt as if I was playing a very inconsistent deck. Not a good start for the day. Pairings are out and I have to play against the only UW RiP/Helm in the room...not my day...

R2: Daniele with UW RiP/Helm:

G1: I know is going to be very tough but I decide to believe in the new sideboard and enter the game defiantly :) The most difficult part is going to be G1, I open my hand and I see a T1 Ooze with an entomb for T2 lethal. It can die to StP and FoW but I have to try before he puts together RiP and CB. It obviously gets FoWed and a quick CB bring us to G3. Side in 3 Reverent Silence and 2 AD, out go 1 Gris, 2 ponders, 1 Ooze and 1 mox.
G2: He keeps a hand with CB/Top and StP but I have 2 discards for it and combo out with buried alive/reanimate on my turn 3.
G3: He goes land top. I cast thoughtseize and grab FoW seeing both RiP and CB. I kept with the combo and a Reverent Silence, he lands RiP and pass. In my turn I Reverent Silence and combo for the win.

What is a basically unwinnable match-up pre-side becomes very playable post-side, feeling better now. To R3!!

R3: Roberto with ANT

G1: I feel like I have the upside post-side and I'm ready for the ride. I obviously didn't take in account the bad day and have to mull to 5 with low mana, he is faster and I die :) ...it seems that there is no love between me and the deck today :( Side in: 3 Surgical Extraction and 2 Inquisition of Kozilek. Out: 1 Gris, 2 ponders, 1 Ooze and 1 mox
G2: I start with Thoughtseize discarding Ad Nauseam. He discards my reanimation spell. We both do "land pass", then I Inquisition his hand and see Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual. I discard DR and pass. He drops land and pass, I do thoughtseize for his Cabal Rit and pass. At this point I feel good, I have mana and Buried Alive in hand, I only need a BS or a reanimation spell and I win...and I draw only mana for 4 turns while he draws: Infernal Tutor, LED, Past in Flame. No need to explain what happens next :(

I still believe this is a favourable match-up (especially post-side), it surely is affected a lot by variance but I'm convinced that it should be in Oozing favour.

R4: Fabrizio with RiP/Helm Enchantress

G1: a tutored RiP in T2 brings us to G2...I think somebody hates me today... I side out the usual and bring in 3 Reverent Silence and 2 Surgical Extractions for the usual stuff.
G2: Reverent Silence is too much for him and I combo out after having killed RiP
G3: see G2 :)

The tournament is over soon and I have the chance to line up extensive testing with a buddy against UW RiP/Helm and Tin Fins. UW is really really bad pre-side but it becomes pretty much even post-side. I'm very, very happy with the sideboard choices right now, they make an unwinnable match-up a reasonable game. With Tin Fins pre-side it's really a coin toss and it goes down to who sees the combo faster or the most discard. Post side the 3 surgicals and 2 inquisitions allow Oozing to gain a slight advantage but it's still very open

I'm not completely sold on the ponders, they are good but slow the deck down a bit too much for my taste...if only I could play 6 brainstorms :D

Despite not having been incredibly successful in the tournament I feel I have the right sideboard for the deck, Oozing is still suffering from variance but I guess there is little that can be done given the nature of the deck.

[Mortox]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but Skirge Familiar is pretty good in this deck, once you get it in the yard and have an Ooze on board you can pretty much play out your hand with the additional mana.

I'm playing nearly the same list as Raystar above, but instead of the Ponders I'm running 1 Skirge Familiar and 1 Children of Korlis (a la Tin Fins), and a Scrubland in the manabase. Both allow for more broken Griselbrand plays.

[Raystar]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but Skirge Familiar is pretty good in this deck, once you get it in the yard and have an Ooze on board you can pretty much play out your hand with the additional mana.

I'm playing nearly the same list as Raystar above, but instead of the Ponders I'm running 1 Skirge Familiar and 1 Children of Korlis (a la Tin Fins), and a Scrubland in the manabase. Both allow for more broken Griselbrand plays.

It's actually a nice suggestion! I gave it some thoughts after reading your message and on the paper I'm not completely convinced (you tested it, hence I'm sure I'm not seeing every angle of it) for the following reasons:

- There are 2 different situations that I happen to be in with a Ooze in play: a) I comboed with Griz and managed to bury ooze and friends + reanimation = I have already win; b) I cast an Ooze. In the second case if I have to entomb/bury something I would go for the win by entombing Devourer or burying the full combo.

I'm sure there are lines of play that could benefit from the Familiar but I can't really see any that would struck me as immediately evident...am I missing something obvious?

[leegoo]

I've been playing this configuration on modo
2 Ooze
2 Griz
1 Child
1 Skirge
and a Tendrils in the main.

It's pretty much similar to the devourer/trike (by that I mean you kill the turn you "go off") but you can generate absurd mana / life to help out.

Post board vs. protection (player shroud) effects I swap the tendrils for a thrashing wumpus.

[MrLiqx]

Hi Guys
I was really exited when i saw this deck/idea. I've been testing this list:

3 Griselbrand
4 Necrotic Ooze
1 Children of Korlis
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
3 Buried Alive
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

2 Badlands
4 Swamps
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire



SB:
4 Pithing Needle
3 Serenity
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Duress
3 Defense Grid

I dont really like playin U just for Brainstorm but in some situations it might be better than Faithless Looting. I have mixed feelings about Serenity it does handle a lot of GY hate problemcards like Leyline of the Void, Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt, Relix of Progenitus and Rest in Peace but vs GW Enchantress Helm and UW Miracle Helm they seem to handle the Serenity before it gets crucial(Detetion Sphere, O-Ring, Aura of Silence) so maybe playing Green for Abrupt Decay, City of Solitude and reverent Silence is better. Substituting Defense Grid, Serenity and some Needles. What do you guys think?

[Darklingske]

This thread seems pretty dead to me. With the GP & BoM behind us (for several months) how did it go Raystar?

[jamis]

So I spent the past 2 months or so trying to find the perfect 75, and I think I've got it or at least I feel I'm close enough. The last 3 events (10-man, 8-man, and 12-man) I went to with this deck, each at 3 different shops, I took 1st.*

This is the 60 I played:

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp
2 Griselbrand

4 Buried Alive
4 Entomb

4 Shallow Grave
3 Reanimate
2 Exhume

4 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal

3 Black Fetchlands
4 Polluted Delta
1 Darkslick Shores
4 Underground Sea
3 Swamp
1 Island

I could see an argument for a 4th Ponder and some number of Preordain, but I tend to mulligan rather aggressively anyway, so the 4/3 split seems to work enough for me to keep a good balance between explosiveness and consistency. The Exhume/Reanimate is also probably personal preference, it could go 4/x or 3/3 or whatever. Sideboard I used at the last event was

4 Echoing Truth
2 Snuff Out
1 Phyrexian Arena
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Desecration Demon

I think the 8 demons are musts, as are some number of Echoing Truth. The rest is all up in the air. I like Arena against discard heavy decks or gindy match-ups. Snuff out's pretty good at taking out hatebears or clearing the way for the demons, but neither are by any means musts. If there was a good 3rd creature that cost 4 or less and had at least 5 power and 4 toughness, I'd include that but I don't think there's a creature that fits the role.

As for what I played, I don't really remember the first two events as they were on 7/31 and 8/3. I know my 2nd round opponent from 8/3 was playing mono-blue omni-tell because in the last game I cast a turn 1 Buried Alive, and he cast a turn 2 show and tell when I had Necrotic Ooze in hand, but none of the other match-ups were as memorable. The other event was yesterday, so I remember it a bit more. Match-ups below:

Round 1: Jund Nic Fit 2-0
Round 2: Enchantress 2-0
Two slow non-blue decks. Magic's hard.

Round 3: UWR Miracles 2-0
He assembles an early counterbalance + top both games, and has spell pierce game 1 and FoW + Clique + StP game 2. I am able to win thanks to some play mistakes he admits to that I am able to capitalize on. I'll chock that up to the rouge factor.

Round 4: Merfolk 2-1
Game 1, I see 3 reanimation spells, 2 Ponders, a brainstorm and the shuffle effects for the cantrips, but I can't find a Buried Alive or Entomb before I'm beat down. Game 2, I have the turn 1 win and he doesn't have FoW. Game 3, I draw a turn 1 Griselbrand again, but he plays turn 1 cursecatcher, so I have to wait a turn to play around it and he doesn't have any other resistance.

*The last event I went to was swiss with cut to top 4, and top 4 split, but I was the only one that finished 4-0 after swiss, so I'm going to count it.

[Koby]

I took jamis' list with a slight tweak (-2 Exhume +1 Reanimate +1 Cabal Therapy) and a budget sideboard to a MTGO Daily Event and got 3-1, losing to the already known bad matchup of Counterbalance/Top.

You can see the record here: http://www.twitch.tv/jkory/b/447327984

[Koby]

Tried a modified build again tonite, cutting 1 Buried Alive for a 4th Ponder, swapping Darkslick Shores (the last one) for Bayou to include Abrupt Decay instead of the man-plan, which again proved a dud from testing. I wasn't able to kill anyone with the dorks, and they're too expensive to matter early.

Went 2-2,
Beating Dredge, Tin Fins
Losing to RUG x2. This match up is not enjoyable in the slightest. I really had Delver and Goyf right now.

Overall record with the deck: 14-9

[jamis]

Thanks for recording the video Koby. It was really awesome watching someone else play the deck.

Miracles is definitely a tough match-up. The old plan with this deck against counterbalance, before Griselbrand was printed, was to lim-dul's vault for the singleton Necrotic Ooze then cast Buried Alive and Ooze since they were harder to counter with counterbalance. Now that the deck is playing multiple Oozes, I think this stays as the pre-board plan. As for after boarding, I'm unsure. What I ended up doing, was taking out all the Buried Alive, Oozes, 1 Griselbrand, the artifact guys, the Imp and 2 Reanimate for everything but the Snuff Out. The guy I played against ended up taking out his Terminuses so I was able to get two demons in and win with them, but if he knew that was the plan and left the Terminus in, it may not have been the right boarding plan. I really liked Echoing Truth in the match-up. Game 2, I was able to bounce away his angel tokens for the win, and it also could bounce a RiP or potentially an early counterbalance. If you're really worried about the match-up, I'm sure Abrupt Decay is the stronger option, but I think it is weaker in the non-CB match-ups. Tendrils is also an interesting idea. After trying it out, would you keep playing Tendrils in the board?

Against Goblins or other aggro-type decks, I usually just bring in 3 or 4 Echoing Truth, and stick to the same game-plan as game 1.

For RUG, I really felt boarding into the demon plan helped. Desecration Demon really forces them to need double bolt, counterspells for the reanimation spells plus a dude to put on pressure, which they're likely going to be lacking on one of those, and they can't favorably remove Obliterator. I could see this being a match where going with the poison route makes a difference since they can more favorably trade with Crusader. Pre-board, I think you just have to hope you're redundant enough to have more combo pieces than they have counterspells and/or enough mana that their dazes and spell pierces don't matter.

On Gitaxian Probe, its been something I've been thinking about, as well. My hesitation is that currently, you can exhume Griselbrand, draw 14 cards, reanimate Ooze, and win at 2 life. Likewise, reanimate on Griselbrand lets you draw 7 and animate ooze. A single Gitaxian Probe shuts that down, which is no good when I start thinking about how likely it is to draw the probe off Griselbrand. On the other hand, I love the card, and information is always good. Its probably just something I need to jam in and see how it goes rather than theory-craft in my head about what might happen.

e: The more I think about it, I'm already playing Thoughtseize, so losing 2 life from Probe is probably not a relevant fear, and I should just try it.

[pandaman]

Played Ooze (I call it Oozing Style and Class) at the local last night, it's my go-to combo deck for the foreseeable future.

Went 2-1-1. Due to not remembering the plays due to lack of practice.

List was

Maindeck

2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp
1 Island

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
2 Griselbrand

Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Reverent Silence
4 City of Solitude
3 Surgical Extraction

Won against UW Miracle Control (2-1) and American Delver (2-0), drew with Esper Stoneblade (1-1-1) and lost to 12-post (1-2).

Tech play. Trike in graveyard, he is swinging with Clique, Meddling Mage (naming Buried Alive), and unflipped Delver. Shallow Grave Trike, ping Clique and Delver, trade with Mage. Nice 3 for 1? Next turn reanimate Vendilion Clique from his graveyard, Exhume Griselbrand, go on the beatdown. This deck is so surprisingly technical it's not funny. Just little options like that are amazing. I actually missed a play the previous turn to this to discard Trike in the discard step and do the play in his previous combat phase, I could have had even better value because I would have been on more life...

Need to practice with this baby! Also, deciding whether to pimp it in non-foil German or Japanese... suggestions welcome! (I speak Japanese so there is bias towards that language)

[Raystar]

Good to see that the deck is serving you well :)

The list you are playing is pretty much the one I played in Strasbourg at the GP, it allows for very nice tricks.

I was thinking of sleeving the deck for a small local tournament on Saturday, I'll let you know how it goes.

[pandaman]

Good to see that the deck is serving you well :)

The list you are playing is pretty much the one I played in Strasbourg at the GP, it allows for very nice tricks.

I was thinking of sleeving the deck for a small local tournament on Saturday, I'll let you know how it goes.

Raystar, would you mind sharing your experience at the GP with us fellow Oozers? Also, how did your local tournament go?

I played ZeRO and went 1-3 at yesterday's local, I have decided that I would rather avoid committing shitty mana-generating creatures and sac-outlets to the Board, and instead just DRit a Buried Alive and Reanimate for a win on Turn 1. Back to Ooze I come!

[pandaman]

Did some testing against Shardless BUG tonight, won 2 pre-board games, lost 2 post-board games (he brought in Leyline of the Void, Flusterstorm, I brought in 3 x City of Solitude and 3 x Reverent Silence) and then lost another 2 pre-board games.

More epic Triskelion plays: he swings with Creeping Tar Pit, 2 Shardless Agent, 3 Baleful Strix, and a Tarmogoyf, and I Entomb and Shallow Grave a Griselbrand, blocking the Tarmogoyf and going to 11. Draw 7 of the Griselbrand, and it is exiled at the end of his turn, with me sitting at 4. I draw, and end up with a hand that includes a Cabal Therapy, Triskelion, Exhume, and 2 Shallow Grave. Therapy the Trisk out of my hand, Shallow Grave it, kill 3 Baleful Strix, and sac it to a flasbacked Cabal Therapy. Shallow Grave the Trisk again, kill a Shardless Agent and ping the other Shardless Agent for 1. Flash back another Therapy to sac the Trisk AGAIN, and Exhume it (opponent returns his Goyf). Ping once to kill the last Shardless Agent, and in the opponent's turn ping twice to kill Creeping Tar Pit and chump block Goyf.

I lose the game the next turn after not drawing an out, but I am still happy killing 3 Baleful Strix, 2 Shardless Agent, and a Creeping Tar Pit with one Triskelion!

I also played one game against UBG Tendrils, which lasted exactly one turn, in which he plays Gemstone Mine, Lotus Petal, Triple Ritual into Infernal Tutor (hellbent), getting Past in Flames, casting it, using the 3 Dark Ritual and Infernal Tutor again into Tendrils for exactly 20. I play my turn for fun anyway. USea Ponder, finding Buried Alive. Lotus Petal, Ritual, Ritual, Buried Alive Shallow Grave? I had the Turn 1 kill too. Oh how I hate losing dice rolls...

Finally, I played a game against American Delver/Patriot, which I lost. He smartly Spell Pierced my Thoughtseize, and I promptly ran my Buried Alive into a Force of Will without another one available. He also stuffed up yet another trick Triskelion by Stifling one of the activations, which means I couldn't kill a flipped Delver, chump block, and then kill itself to send it back to the graveyard and not to exile. If I had pulled it off the play would have kept me alive to win the game

The list is

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
2 Griselbrand

Sideboard

3 City of Solitude
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Reverent Silence
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize

[pandaman]

Oozed to 2-2 tonight, giving one opponent a win in a drawn game in the hope he could get into the prizes, so I could have been 2-1-1 again.

List was

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Sideboard

2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 City of Solitude
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Reverent Silence

I had a couple of Turn 1 kills today, through Chrome Mox and Ancient Tomb, so I think they stay in the list. I didn't like the second Ancient Tomb, though, so I think I will cut it for a fetchland.

I am sold on 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder, it is just amazing being able to find your sideboard cards with consistency.

I think the list I have at the moment is good, but I just wish I could jam Gitaxian Probe in there somehow. Storm has it, Tin Fins has it, and I want it! Anyone playing it in Ooze? If so, I would love to see your list.

[pandaman]

More musing on Oozing...

I was trying to compare Oozing with some of the other similar combo decks - ANT and Tin Fins, based on my current list, to help me brainstorm any further ways to optimise it.

Protection:

Oozing - 6 (4 Thoughtseize, 2 Cabal Therapy)
ANT - 7 (4 Cabal Therapy, 3 Duress)
Tin Fins - 6 (4 Thoughtseize, 2 Cabal Therapy)

Information:

Oozing - 0
ANT - 4 (4 Gitaxian Probe)
Tin Fins - 4 (4 Gitaxian Probe)

Manipulation:

Oozing - 8 (4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder)
ANT - 12 (4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 Preordain)
Tin Fins - 10 (4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 2 Lim-Dul's Vault)

It seems from an analysis of the above that Oozing has less protection, information, and manipulation than ANT, and equal protection, but less information and manipulation than Tin Fins. It would be nice, perhaps, as I have always thought, to fit Gitaxian Probe into the list. It would be nice to bring Oozing to parity with the other similar combo decks in terms of deck composition, if possible, because the other decks seem to enjoy good success where Oozing has not recorded any major triumphs yet.

[BeardTron]

Just a thought...Todd Anderson put together a modern list that fits this idea ...would a single Borborygmos Enraged be good in the Legacy list? Or would it just be a win more card? Pitching lands after drawing from Griz can push extra damage through...even w a lower land count in the Legacy version it could still be a worthwhile amount.

[pandaman]

Oozing some serious style and class again at the local, ending up with a 3-1 result. My plays are definitely getting better with the deck!

Round 1 v Elves, I kept loose hands and got raced.

Round 2 v ANT. I forget to de-sideboard from the previous round and call a game loss on myself. In my defence, I was excited to have some Vintage games with the elves player using my new Black Lotus! So I am left to win win to get my record back to even. I lead on the play with discard spell, and put enough pressure on him that he has to try and go off, but he fizzles. I win with the combo the next turn. Game 3 he hides stuff with Brainstorm so I can't use my discard as effectively as I would like, but eventually I hardcast Griselbrand and although I don't draw into enough to go off, I manage to shred his hand with Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy, and a Surgical Extraction on his Infernal Tutor for good measure. I win after another Griselbrand swing.

Round 3 v Merfolk. In Game 1, he was on the play and dropped Mutavault, Vial. I had two Entombs in hand so I ran one out after he had ticked his Vial up to 1 to see if he had a Cursecatcher, and when he didn't, Shallow Grave for a Griselbrand on Turn 2 for the win. In the second game I kept a very land heavy hand with a brainstorm and Dark Ritual, and he dropped a Relic of Progenitus on me Turn 1. Fortunately, he was holding up mana for counter magic and didn't commit any creatures to the board until Turn 4, which allowed me to chain cantrips into a total of 3 Cabal Therapy and 1 Thoughtseize, and in the meantime found an Ancient Tomb and enough additional land to hardcast Griselbrand with the help of the initial Dark Ritual. With the life linking monster on the board it is a simple matter to mop up the fish.

Round 4 v Nic Fit. I am on the play in Game 1 and drop a Necrotic Ooze off a Swamp, Lotus Petal, and Dark Ritual. He drops a Sensei's Divining Top on his turn, and then I simply attack on Turn 2 and Entomb for a Phyrexian Devourer for the win. In Game 2 he leads off with a Thoughtseize, taking my Ponder, but I rip another and go digging. I take a Green Sun's Zenith with a Thoughtseize but he draws another and gets Scavenging Ooze. I have found an Abrupt Decay I boarded in in the meantime and promptly use it on the graveyard-eating scourge. I then Shallow Grave a Griselbrand, draw cards, hardcast a Necrotic Ooze and double Entomb for the combo.

I run a fair amount of acceleration: 4 Dark Ritual, 4 Lotus Petal, 1 Chrome Mox, and 2 Ancient Tomb. The Tombs in particular helped me hardcast Griselbrand twice on the night (and a third time during social games) so I really liked how they work. I might trim to 1 and see how it affects the variance.

My decklist was

2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Felt
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Sideboard (15)

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Reverent Silence
3 City of Solitude
3 Surgical Extraction
2 inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy

Cabal Therapy proved extremely useful in saccing Griselbrand off Shallow Grave to keep it in the graveyard. As mentioned previously, Ancient Tomb was also excellent. No changes except -1 Ancient Tomb +1 Bloodstained Mire.

Is anyone else still Oozing?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[pandaman]

I have been experimenting with sideboarding... It seems that, generally speaking, you see the following hate from the following Tier decks

RUG - Grafdigger's Cage, counterspells
Shardless BUG - Surgical Extraction, Nihil Spellbomb, counterspells, Deathrite Shaman
Sneak 'n Snow - Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, counterspells
Death & Taxes - Phyrexian Revoker, Pithing Needle, Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus
Elves - discard, Scavenging Ooze
Jund - Surgical Extraction, discard, Scavenging Ooze, Grafdigger's Cage, Deathrite Shaman
Patriot - counterspells, Rest in Peace
Omnitell - counterspells, Leyline of Sancity
Miracle Control - counterspells, Rest in Peace, Pithing Needle

Hate against Ooze seems to fall into two categories:

Static hate (Grafdigger's Cage, Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void/Sancity, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker). This is stuff that keeps working constantly as soon as it is dropped.
Activated hate (Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, Scavenging Ooze, Deathrite Shaman, Surgical Extraction, Ravenous Trap). This is stuff that is activated to hate you at the appropriate time.

Against static hate, you need either Abrupt Decay (RiP, Needle, Revoker, Cage) or Reverent Silence (the Leylines). Against reactive hate your number one card is City of Solitude. However, Abrupt Decay can also be relevant and useful against this type of hate. If a deck plays both, you need to bring both in.

My boarding is therefore usually 4 to 6 cards. I usually take out 1 Griselbrand, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Buried Alive, 1 Reanimate, 1 Lotus Petal, and 1 Cabal Therapy and bring in:

RUG - Abrupt Decay, discard (I don't board out Griselbrand in this matchup because they can't remove it)
Shardless BUG - City of Solitude, Abrupt Decay (I don't board out Griselbrand in this matchup because they can't remove it except for Liliana)
Sneak 'n Snow - discard, Reverent Silence, Surgical Extraction
Death & Taxes - Abrupt Decay, Reverent Silence
Elves - discard, Abrupt Decay
Jund - Abrupt Decay, City of Solitude (I don't board out Griselbrand in this matchup because they can't remove it except for Liliana)
Patriot - Reverent Silence, Abrupt Decay
Omnitell - Reverent Silence, discard, Surgical Extraction
Miracle Control - Reverent Silence, Abrupt Decay

Juggling the numbers is difficult, and a keen knowledge of your meta and what certain decks have been playing lately plays a large part in deciding what to bring in for Game 2 is required. If you have won on turn 1 or 2 of Game one it is even harder sometimes, because you don't know what the other person is playing! Adjustment of your sideboard strategy in Game 3 is essential, to take into account what you have seen them playing.

Has anyone got thoughts on my sideboard choices, both Ooze players and players who play Tier decks? Numbers of cards in/out, and reasons to choose one over the other? Tier deck players, what cards does Ooze have that you feel deal with your hate/discard/counterspells most effectively, and you hate seeing?

[pandaman]

Just a thought...Todd Anderson put together a modern list that fits this idea ...would a single Borborygmos Enraged be good in the Legacy list? Or would it just be a win more card? Pitching lands after drawing from Griz can push extra damage through...even w a lower land count in the Legacy version it could still be a worthwhile amount.

I think it is probably win more in Legacy. Usually once you are drawing with Griselbrand's ability you are either winning that then, discarding and winning in the opponent's upkeep, or shredding their hand and winning next turn.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[pandaman]

Played Ooze to 1-3 at the local last night. A disappointing showing.

Round 1 v Omnitell (Mono U). Loss 0-2. Game 1 I check for FoW with Thoughtseize Turn 2, and he does't have it, so I attempt to go off Turn 3, and run into the FoW he drew off the top last turn. He then combos off and wins. Game 2, I bring in discard and Surgical Extraction, but he opens on Leyline of Sancity, which neuters the 2 Cabal Therapy I have in hand. I don't find the combo fast enough and he goes off again.

Round 2 v Burn. Win 2-0. Non-blue decks are not hard.

Round 3 v Miracle Control. I steal Game 1 with a quick combo after some discard. Side in Abrupt Decay and Reverent Silence. I know he boards out some of his StP so I keep a hand with a Turn 2 hardcast Ooze with a Turn 3 Entomb, and also a Turn 3 Triskelion. Both get StP'd - he's drawn the only two left in the deck. I then get locked out by Rest in Peace, CB-Top, and Pithing Needle on Griselbrand, Ethersworn Canonst, and Humility also join the party, along with a Vendilion Clique (before Humility) taking some of my good stuff away. However, as he's only hitting me for 1 per turn under Humility, I have a lot of time to rip lands, Abrupt Decays and Reverent Silences. I end up with 2 of each and 9 mana on the board, with Buried Alive and Shallow Grave in hand. I AD CB, run a Reverent Silence into a hardcast FoW then strip the second out of his hand with Therapy. Cast the second Reverent Silence to kill RiP and Humility, and subsequently realise I can't now play the second AD on Canonist for the win. FML. Game 3 I just get locked out hardcore, but my hand wasn't good enough to get there.

Round 4 v Patriot Delver. Loss 0-2. Mulls, bad hands, and bad draws lose me this one. He saw 2 Daze, Stifle, 2 Force in the first game, and 3 Daze, Stifle, 2 Spell Pierce, and a FoW in the second game. In the second game on 9 life with an SFM in play and BSkull in his hand, I need to get that BSkull out of the picture so I can have a couple of more turns to draw out. I know he has Daze and Spell Pierce in his hand from a previous Thoughtseize, so in my main phase I Dark Ritual with 2 mana open. He cracks his only fetchland to get some mana (other 2 lands were tapped), but in response I cast my second Dark Ritual. He Dazes, and I pay, but he has drawn the 2nd Daze. Total blowout; if he hadn't drawn that Daze I would have been able to hang around a little longer, and with Buried Alive and Entomb in hand would have had a good chance of pulling something out.

Next time I know to bring in Reverent Silence against Omnitell, plan my sequencing better, and mulligan more aggressively. I cut a ponder for a 7th discard spell, but I think I like the full 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder better (gets you your sideboard cards and combo more consistently, and you draw into protection more often, too). However, I will persist and see how it fares.

So the maindeck from last night was:

2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Felt
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Ancient Tomb
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

Sideboard (15)

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Reverent Silence
3 City of Solitude
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy

[pandaman]

Oozed to Top 4 of a local tournament. 29 players with a cut to Top 8.

Round 1 Bye - the Ooze is strong with this one.

Round 2 - Tendrils. Game 1, I open with a Thoughtseize taking an Infernal Tutor. He is cantripping to find some business, but I don't wait around, ramming a Turn 3 Buried Alive and a Turn 4 Shallow Grave for the win. Game 2, I mull to 4 and don't play a card before he kills me. Game 3, I play a Turn 1 Buried Alive and have my Shallow Grave stripped from my hand by a Duress. Of course I topdeck another one to win the game.

Round 3 - Elves. Game 1, he plays some Elves that beat me down to 11 before I combo off. Game 2, he doesn't see any hate, and I have the Turn 3 combo.

Round 4 - Hexproof Dark Bant. ID

Round 5 - Reanimator. ID

Top 8 - Death & Taxes. I mull to 5 for a keepable hand and find a 5 card hand that kills on Turn 3. He plays a Mother of Runes on Turn 1, but thankfully a Stoneforge Mystic on Turn 2, leaving the way undisrupted for the kill. Game 2, he plays out an Aether Vial, and I have a Turn 1 Griselbrand into a Turn 1 Ooz combo win. Lady Luck likes me!

Top 4 - Tendrils again. I am on the play both games, with the Turn 2 win both games. Except he kills me Turn 1 BOTH GAMES!

I take away 6 booster packs for my efforts, and pull nothing good. However, I like the new list a lot!

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
3 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Thoughtseize

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

SIDEBOARD

3 City of Solitude
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Reverent Silence
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12595&iddeck=92349

[pandaman]

I've been Oozing at some more local tournaments after my Top 4 finish at the monthly tournaments. I have had mixed results, going 2-2 both weeks. I have been getting my fair share of Turn 1 and Turn 2 wins, but twice when I have gone off with Ritual->Entomb Griselbrand->Shallow Grave on Turn 1 I have bricked on drawing that one mana source I needed to get the win. In both of those games I had sided the Chrome Mox out, and I believe I should try to stop doing that. It comes in very useful when you draw it of Griselbrand because you can always figure out something to imprint onto it.

Another thing I've noticed is that, although it is an amazing card, City of Solitude isn't getting much use. True, it blanks Deathrite Shaman, counterspells, and activated graveyard hate, but because it costs 3 mana it is a little slow unless you Dark Ritual it out. Against most decks I find myself feeling that, by the time I get it out, I may as well have just sided in additional discard/Abrupt Decays and just bought some more time with those things until I go off.

I was thinking of changing the sideboard up to look something like this:

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Reverent Silence
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Echoing Truth

I am finding that hardcasting Ooze against certain decks is a really strong play, and everyone is blown away when I do it because they expect it to come from the graveyard. Also, Game 2, most people make the connection that spot removal doesn't stop the combo and therefore side most or all of it out, leaving a hardcast Ooze a legitimate beatdown threat if they keep a hand of disruption and no board presence. I am going to ram a full playset of Ooze in against BUG and all other decks that don't run removal. Even against combo, which usually can't block you, if you can lay an Ooze and start beating, you create a respectable clock, and you win instantly if you: (a) Entomb; (b) Buried Alive; or (c) make yourself discard Phyrexian Devourer.

I'm still having great fun playing this deck!

[pandaman]

I took a little hiatus from the deck, but I'm back Oozing now. I understand jamis is still Oozing as well.

The new list being bandied around is something like this:

Maindeck - 61 cards

1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Shallow Grave
3 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire

The sideboard is still unclear.

The main change is dropping the extra copies of Necrotic Ooze and Griselbrand. Jamis's idea initially, I agreed when I realised that I usually side out a Necrotic Ooze and a Griselbrand against most decks. Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy can thereby make it into the list, which is much better than just 4 Thoughtseize. The downside is that your CMC total in the deck becomes lower, and you have to be a lot more careful with the combo - I was goldfishing yesterday and, after drawing 21, I only managed to do 20 damage because I Brainstormed 2 Buried Alive back on top of the deck. Previously, you could count on hitting a second Griselbrand or two more Necrotic Ooze for a healthy bang of damage, but not any more. In fact, I am going to memorise the total CMC of my deck so I can work out how much damage is left before going off!

[pandaman]

Oozed to Top 8 in the GoodGames Brisbane February 2014 Big Legacy event earlier today. 24 players turned out to battle for a FNM Foil Wasteland.

I played the following:

Maindeck - 60

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
3 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard - 15

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Echoing Truth
1 Necrotic Ooze
3 Reverent Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12919

My day went like this...

Round 1 v Patriot Delver. Loss 1-2.

Game 1, he is on the play, and leads with a Delver, which flips, and then a second turn Stoneforge Mystic. Meanwhile, I am using the turns he taps out to get my combo in the graveyard. He counters all my reanimation, but with lethal on the board I rip Ooze and win!

I sideboard -1 Griselbrand -1 Mox Diamond -1 Buried Alive -1 Reanimate -1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Dark Ritual +3 Reverent Silence +3 Abrupt Decay

Game 2, he is on the play again, and again leads with a Delver, which doesn't flip until third turn. However, he has a Force for my crucial Buried Alive and we're off to a third.

Game 3, I lead off, but for the third game in a row he has a Turn 1 Delver, and this one flips. I then run into 2 Force of Will, 3 Daze, 2 Spell Pierce, a Rest in Peace, and a Meddling Mage. No fighting through that.

A first round loss, so I'm left to right the ship and win the next 3 to secure an ID into Top 8.

Round 2 v Reanimator. Win 2-1

Game 1, I'm on the play, and run into a Force of Will, 2 Dazes, a Duress, and a Thoughtseize. He also sneaks an Entomb in there for a Tidespout Tyrant, which starts bouncing the Oozes I have found to beat down with. I scoop them up and we go to a new game.

I sideboard -1 Griselbrand -1 Buried Alive -1 Mox Diamond -1 Exhume -1 Dark Ritual -1 Lotus Petal +1 Necrotic Ooze +3 Surgical Extraction +2 Cabal Therapy +1 Inquisition of Kozilek

Game 2, he bins Iona for some reason. I gleefully Reanimate it, naming Black, and win the game.

Game 3, I have a mull to 5, but keep a hand with Surgical Extraction. I am saved by extremely poor discard selection by my opponent, ignoring my Surgical Extraction, and the second one I drew, to take a Brainstorm and Buried Alive respectively. I am playing off the top with 2 Surgical and 1 Shallow Grave in hand, when he yet again bins an Iona. I rip a Reanimate to try and take it, but he has the Force. However, I rip another Reanimate straight away and name Blue this time, convinced he has bounce in his hand. He scoops them up, showing me an Echoing Truth and Show and Tell. Phew!

Round 3 v Patriot Delver. Win 2-0.

Game 1, he is on the play, and leads with the dreaded Delver, which fortunately doesn't flip for a couple of turns. I amass lots of mana and then start stripping the Forces out of his hand with multiple spells. I sequence correctly and push through an Ooze combo win.

I sideboard -1 Griselbrand -1 Mox Diamond -1 Buried Alive -1 Reanimate -1 Necrotic Ooze -1 Dark Ritual +3 Reverent Silence +3 Abrupt Decay

Game 2, he is on the play again, and leads with another Delver, followed by a Rest in Peace. Fortunately, I have a black fetchland and Reverent Silence, and off the troublesome permanent as soon as possible. He casts a Ponder and is thinking about which two cards from his hand to put back. Suddenly, I realise that's not what Ponder does! A judge gives him a game loss, and I scoop a win. We play the matchup out, and I proceed to Reanimate a Griselbrand which, because he took out all his Swords to Plowshares, he can't deal with.

Round 4 vs BUG Landstill. Win 2-0.

Game 1, I am on the draw, and run a first turn Entomb into a Force of Will. However, I have another on Turn 2, for Griselbrand, followed by a Shallow Grave, and he scoops them up.

I sideboard -1 Griselbrand -1 Mox Diamond -1 Buried Alive -1 Reanimate -1 Dark Ritual -1 Ponder -1 Lotus Petal +1 Necrotic Ooze +2 Cabal Therapy +1 Inquisition of Kozilek +3 Abrupt Decay

Game 2 he has a Turn 2 Standstill. I draw and discard under it until his hand has filled up, then break it at the end of his turn with an Entomb, which he Spell Pierces. Untapping, I Thoughtseize, which meets Snapcaster Mage flashing back Spell Pierce. I then cast Dark Ritual into Cabal Therapy, and in response he Surgical Extractions my Entomb. I can't have that, because I have one in hand, so I use it, and in response he uses a second Surgical Extraction on my Thoughtseize. When the dust settles, I have a Griselbrand in the graveyard, he has no mana untapped, and my Therapy resolves, naming Force of Will. I miss, but I see a Standstill, Extirpate, Stifle, and Diabolic Edict. I'm not going to get a better chance than this, and use the last 2 mana for a Shallow Grave, drawing 14 cards of Griselbrand, but unfortunately not finding the means to combo off. I have drawn a Necrotic Ooze and a Phyrexian Devourer though, so if I can resolve a Shallow Grave next turn (I have drawn 2) I can swing for the win. I sac Griselbrand to flash back Cabal Therapy taking the Extirpate, and I discard down to 7 (including Necrotic Ooze and Phyrexian Devourer, with Ooze on top) and ship the turn. He rams a second Standstill and passes it back after beating with his Snapcaster, leaving his Mishra's Factory back. I Shallow Grave my Ooze and swing, he tries to Edict it but realises he's mistakenly tapped his Black mana! He doesn't block, and I pump with Devourer's ability for lethal. He's flabbergasted, he completely missed that interaction and didn't see it coming.

Round 5 vs Death & taxes - ID.

Top 8 for the second month in a row!

Top 8 v BUG. Loss 1-2.

First game I keep a no-lander Petal Chrome Mox hand, which was really stupid, because it switched on his 2 Abrupt Decays he used to destroy them. I end up with no permanents on the table.

I sideboard -1 Griselbrand -1 Mox Diamond -2 Buried Alive -1 Reanimate +1 Necrotic Ooze +3 Abrupt Decay +1 Echoing Truth

Taking a mull to 5, I eventually face down double Deathrite Shaman and a Tormod's Crypt. However, I've been able to draw mana, and I know from a previous Thoughtseize that he has a Flusterstorm and a Daze in hand. This is where playing 4 Oozes comes in handy - I manage to draw and play one with 5 mana available, playing around Daze. Then, the next turn, I swing, with Entomb for Phyrexian Devourer, playing around Flusterstorm. He has tapped one of his Deathrites for some reason, and uses the second in response to my first Ooze activation. I put another activation on the stack, and he uses his Crypt. I put another activation on the stack, and he finally realises his graveyard hate isn't going to work against this particular aspect of the combo. I smash for all his life.

Game 3 I hit another mulligan to 5, and unfortunately get caught with Ooze in hand on a Thoughtseize, and they are promptly Surgically Extracted, leaving me with 1 Griselbrand as my win condition. However, I am again facing down Double Deathrite and Tormod's Crypt, but this time I don't have Ooze to Hail Mary me out, and I die without finding a Reanimation spell or the mana to cast Griselbeez.

I'm happy to make Top 8 of the second monthly tournament in a row, with the same deck. It's a pile of shit, but it is actually very strong and consistent, with 8 of each type of combo piece increasing the chances of you drawing, Brainstorming, or Pondering into the combo. The multiple avenues to use Ooze also came in very handy today, and for that reason I think that running multiple Oozes and Griselbrands is actually better than only one copy of each. I will continue to test, but I am liking the current list, and it seems to be serving me well.

However, I need something to deal with Deathrite Shaman, that thing doesn't stuff me around that much, but it sends you down the hardcast Ooze/Entomb path by blocking off the graveyard. Pithing Needle would be good, but it will just get Abrupt Decayed. I removed City of Solitude because of the same reason, and because it cost 3. Maybe Echoing Truth them all and then go off? Need to do some brainstorming about it.

[pandaman]

Some discussions on side boarding after input from the Godfathers of Oozing, Raystar and jamis.

There is hardly a Miracles player left in my meta, so I think Reverent Silence can come down to a 2-of in the Board. I think I still need if because the OmniTell players in the meta board into Leyline of Sanctity.

Abrupt Decay is such a good catch-all answer, it just has to be a 4-of.

City of Solitude is required to win the BUG and Death blade matchuo. Without it, the match is horrendous for Oozing. 3 in the board. The plan is not to give them the ability to use their Abrupt Decay in the first game so they side it out.

My meta is very combo-heavy, so an additional 3 discard spells and 2 Surgical Extraction are required.

Finally, a single Necrotic Ooze to punish any decks that take out their removal for combo hate.

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
3 City of Solitude
3 discard
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic Ooze

Also, this deck is getting pimped in non-foil German, please PM me if you can help because it's quite difficult to find the stuff here in Australia! Thanks!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Raystar]

Some discussions on side boarding after input from the Godfathers of Oozing, Raystar and jamis.

There is hardly a Miracles player left in my meta, so I think Reverent Silence can come down to a 2-of in the Board. I think I still need if because the OmniTell players in the meta board into Leyline of Sanctity.

Abrupt Decay is such a good catch-all answer, it just has to be a 4-of.

City of Solitude is required to win the BUG and Death blade matchuo. Without it, the match is horrendous for Oozing. 3 in the board. The plan is not to give them the ability to use their Abrupt Decay in the first game so they side it out.

My meta is very combo-heavy, so an additional 3 discard spells and 2 Surgical Extraction are required.

Finally, a single Necrotic Ooze to punish any decks that take out their removal for combo hate.

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
3 City of Solitude
3 discard
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic Ooze

Also, this deck is getting pimped in non-foil German, please PM me if you can help because it's quite difficult to find the stuff here in Australia! Thanks!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

This is definitely the SB I'd play at the moment. There is a little too much permission in the meta right now to make me feel comfortable sleeving the deck, especially Esper and Deathblade are a real issue and they see a lot of play these days.

Another thing that I was considering after we had our chat is to experiment again with Ground Seal/Exhume and check if that gives any advantage against the decks using Shaman. In that case you may be looking at a SB of this kind (assuming 3 Exhume MD):

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ground Seal
1 Exhume
3 <discard>
2 <Meta dependent>
1 Necrotic ooze

Do you think it is worth a try?

[Raystar]

Just for completeness, I was thinking at something like this:

2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

2 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Ponder

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
3 Exhume
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Exhume
4 Ground Seal
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Surgical Extraction

[pandaman]

There is indeed a lot of permission, but it's not usually hard counter, which means you can play around most of it. However, at the moment, I believe that going back up to 15 lands might be correct because that allows you to more effectively make your land drops to play around Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, and Daze. I am going to keep jamming the deck regardless!

I played my local last night to a terrible 0-3 result. I faced Patriot Delver, Death blade, and Death & Taxes. I feel that I played poorly all night, and so am not too concerned about the performance because I feel it says more about my plays on the night than the suitability of the deck.

I played:

Maindeck - 60

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained More
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
3 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard - 15

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
1 Echoing Truth
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic Ooze

The thing about the deck is that you're always in the game until the end. Against Death blade, I was facing down 3 Deathrite Shaman and a Liliana on 1, and in any of the turns had I drawn a land I could have cast Ooze and then the next turn Buried Alive to win. Against Death & Taxes he ripped a Revoked the turn before I could go off. You have to be very disciplined and play very tightly and to your outs, and trust in the deck to reward you. I did that in the last monthly and was the beneficiary of some great draws, but I just didn't put myself in those positions last night.

I think it is correct to go down to 1 Reverent Silence in the sideboard now; there are no Miracles players any more, and I rarely see Omnitell with its sideboard Leyline of Sanctity. However, I dont know what to replace it with.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Raystar]

After posting a couple of times in the thread I had to play Oozing again :)

I went to a LGS yesterday night and piloted Oozing to a top 4 split (it was 2:30 AM and everybody was exhausted...we decided to split :) ). We were 15 and played 4 turns and top 8.

The list I played was:

2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

2 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Ponder

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
3 Exhume
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Exhume
4 Ground Seal
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Surgical Extraction

A quick run down of the match-ups:

1st round Food Chain combo: 2-0 - I got him by surprise G1 and I fought through double permission G2 top decking Imp to activate the Cabal Therapy in my yard naming FoW. Gitaxian Probe was instrumental in winning G1.

2nd round Death&Taxes: 2-1 - Not an ideal match-up but I managed to surprise him in G1, lost G2 to not seeing any "go-to-the-yard" effect and won G3 discarding a RiP and fighting through 3 (three) Phyrexian revokers. To be honest he misplayed the second one but still...

3rd round Death&Taxes: 2-0 - Again!! A slightly better player and the result doesn't entirely represent how close the two matches were. He opened G2 with Needle (yes, needle, he played the 4 revokers plus needle from the sb :) ) on Ooze but after making him discard RiP, I got Grizzie on-line and drew the combo and the AD for the needle while facing lethal on the board.

4th round Team America: ID - Pheeeewww... :)

Quarterfinal Affinity: 2-0 - He didn't see revoker and I proceded to combo out twice on turn 3

As I said we split top 4 and I would have had to face Nic Fit or mono green post in the semi with some reasonable chance to get to the final.

I liked the probes a lot, they really are a proactive answer to permission and they are going to stay in the list for the foreseeable future.

The surprise effect of the deck is still high and it is very well placed to offer good results in small metas where the T1 aggro-control decks are a bit less prevalent.

[Raystar]

I updated the OP with the current lists from Pandaman and myself. Feel free to contact me for any info/question.

[pandaman]

Yeah Raystar! Way to go, mate, and I agree, the deck is best when people aren't expecting it. I don't know how it would go at something like GP Paris that has just happened, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone did, in fact, play it, or Tin Fins. Anyone?

[Raystar]

Yeah Raystar! Way to go, mate, and I agree, the deck is best when people aren't expecting it. I don't know how it would go at something like GP Paris that has just happened, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone did, in fact, play it, or Tin Fins. Anyone?

Looking at the level (very high) of the players I saw in the twitch stream (yes, the nerd in me couldn't stop looking at that :) ) and the dominance of the counter-magic played I doubt it would have been a successful choice. Look at what happened to the DD Bant player during day 2: the first day he surprised everybody, then his list was even published on WotC blog and he wasn't able to replicate the success of day 1.

That said, I made some more "friendly" testing (I'm lucky enough to have a testing pal at home) and I'm even more convinced that Gitaxian Probe is the way to go; Oozing can choose different avenues to combo out and knowing which one to pursue makes an hell of a difference.

My actual wet dream would be to incorporate counter-spells in the package but that would probably make for a total overhaul of the deck...

[pandaman]

Given the results from the GP, and that our two worst matchups (BUG Delver and Miracles) were all the rage, I'm going to be shelving Oozing as an idea for BoM. However, I'll still work on the deck as my pet.

Raystar, if Gitaxian Probe is amazing, what do we do with discard? Stay with Thoughtseize, or switch to Cabal Therapy? Or do we put in a split?

[Raystar]

Given the results from the GP, and that our two worst matchups (BUG Delver and Miracles) were all the rage, I'm going to be shelving Oozing as an idea for BoM. However, I'll still work on the deck as my pet.

Raystar, if Gitaxian Probe is amazing, what do we do with discard? Stay with Thoughtseize, or switch to Cabal Therapy? Or do we put in a split?

The last list I played was already utilizing a split (3 CT and 2 TS), I had 3 Inquisition of Kozilek in SB and I was already thinking to split them into 2 IoK and 1 CT.

The real issue at the moment is BUG: they pack everything we don't want to see. I have the impression that we will only have to wait for the next ban wave, if the meta rids itself of TNN we are up again.

[pandaman]

I'm thinking of trying the following list:

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Shallow Grave
2 Reanimate
1 Exhume

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy

Sideboard

1 Necrotic Ooze
3 City of Solitude (BUG is THE deck, apparently)
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Reverent Silence

Raystar, a couple of questions about your list: why do you like Exhume over Reanimate; and why Ground Seal over City of Solitude?

[Raystar]

Hey Pandaman, here you go with some answers and observations on the list:

1) The reasoning behind the list (when I put it together) was that Miracle was going to decline, so I decided to get rid of the Reverent Silence in the SB. I had one big enemy to address: BUG. My thinking was that I was more probably going to lose because of Shaman and Hymn instead of counter-magic against it. I also looked at which spots I was going to use to sideboard against BUG: 1 Grizzie, 2 Ponder, 2 Probe. I knew that I wanted the 4th Ooze in but I was loosing a lot of "digging power"so I decided to go "screw the counterspells" and play something that would still let me cantrip to reduce the impact of Hymn and would blank Shaman/Surgical: Ground Seal

2) Having chosen GS I needed to be able to reanimate without targeting and reduced the Reanimate to 1 MD to be replaced by the 4th Exhume from the SB. Basically against BUG I go: -1 Reanimate, -2 Ponder, -2 Probe, -1 Grizzie, +1 Exhume, +4 Ground Seal, + 1 Ooze

3) Looking at you list I have a couple of questions. a) I believe you should up the Cabal Therapy number to 3 and reduce the TS number to 2. With probe CT is very strong and you really want to see it when you go off with Grizzie+Shallow Grave to put Grizzie back in the yard in case you have to pass the turn. b) I believe that the right number of Probes is 2. Going from 3 to 2 would allow you to put back in the 8th reanimation spell that you removed from your list

I found myself passing the turn after having drawn with Grizzie a bit more often than before but it's actually not too bad and the GS helps a lot in that regard...

[pandaman]

I like your reasoning regarding Ground Seal against BUG a lot. I am going to test it next Tuesday at the local. I playtested a bunch of Aggro-Control and Control decks last night and realised how much more fun it is just to do unfair stuff in Legacy!

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
2 Griselbrand

2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Shallow Grave
1 Reanimate
3 Exhume

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Sideboard (15)

4 Ground Seal
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Exhume

What do you think? I'm still living dangerously with 14 lands, down from the previous 15, but it got me top 8 at the last big tournament, so I'll run it again and see.

[Raystar]

I like your reasoning regarding Ground Seal against BUG a lot. I am going to test it next Tuesday at the local. I playtested a bunch of Aggro-Control and Control decks last night and realised how much more fun it is just to do unfair stuff in Legacy!

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
2 Griselbrand

2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Shallow Grave
1 Reanimate
3 Exhume

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Sideboard (15)

4 Ground Seal
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Exhume

What do you think? I'm still living dangerously with 14 lands, down from the previous 15, but it got me top 8 at the last big tournament, so I'll run it again and see.

I like the list a lot. Just one thing: if I'm not mistaken you are running 61 cards, if you still want to go 14 lands you may want to cut the 4th ponder to go back to 60.

Good luck tonight :)

[pandaman]

Sorry, revised list:

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained More
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
1 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Gitaxian Probe

I am going 61 cards, using the following sideboard:

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ground Seal
1 Exhume
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction

I think I would like to see a Reverent Silence or two in there, perhaps replacing the 1 Cabal Therapy and 1 Abrupt Decay, because it allows you to do plays against Miracles such as: EoT Abrupt Decay CB, main phase Therapy on FoW, Reverent Silence to kill RiP, go off. Arguably some number of Reverent Silence is useful because it is 4CMC and it will likely slip past CB anyway.

But we will test this configuration and see how it runs.

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[pandaman]

Not much of a test tonight, but I went 3-1 (with a bye in there), losing (read: punting) to Lands and winning against Affinity and Jund Depths. I would have preferred to have hit some Blue matchups for testing purposes.

Against Lands, I didn't Therapy Punishing Fire before drawing another 7 with Griselbrand, and he burned me out from my 1 measly life. PUNTED HARD. Then Game 2 I got locked out with double Wasteland double Port and Dark Confidant drew him into Chalice for 1 and Cursed Totem. I had the combo in hand but couldn't get to 3 mana to play it out. Fucking RiI also had to call a judge because I somehow ended up with 5 Necrotic Ooze between maindeck and sideboard. I was ordered to replace one with a basic Swamp and allowed to continue. So I played with 16 lands. I tilted hard after this, feeling very embarrassed.

Against Affinity I killed on Turn 1, and then Game 2 he opened with a Turn 1 Canonist, and on Turn 2 played 2 Ravagers, ate all his artifacts, and swung me down to 9. I binned Griselbrand with Thoughtseize my first turn, and then Shallow Grave returned it to chump the Canonist, preventing it from swinging for lethal and drawing me 7 cards. Fortunately, I drew double Entomb and Ooze off Griselbrand's 7, and cast Ooze, blocked and Entomb'd Phyrexian Devourer to pump Ooze and kill the Canonist , and swung for the win the next turn, leaving Entomb up for any shenanigans that might come.

Against Junk Lands, I got hit with 3 Ravens Crime activations by Turn 2, which allowed me to discard my Griselbrand and Shallow Grave it (the last card in my hand) at the end of his second turn, which is, by the way, an amazing thing to do because it gives you so much of a head start with mana untapped to use to cast your Rituals and other spells. I drew 14 cards, Entombed an Ooze and a Devourer, Shallow Grave'd the Ooze and swung with Grizzie and Oozie for the game. Game 2, Crop Rotation into Bojuka Bog ruined my day (I know now to play it slowly in this matchup, because I could have simply waited until he tapped his Green for Loam and gone for it in response to that) and I discarded an Ooze to Smallpox rather than Griselbrand, which I could have reanimated to block his 20/20 and possibly have won with an amazing hail-Mary. Game 3 I killed him Turn 2, when he only had a Karakas on the table. Shallow Grave'd Griselbrand was returned to my hand, but 14 cards was enough to find a Buried Alive and another Shallow Grave to win. I didn't put him on Surgical Extraction because of the Crop Rotations in his deck, I though he would be on Bojuka Bog as the only graveyard hate and I was right.

I like the sideboard. Ground Seal has other uses than protecting your graveyard: shutting off Life from the Loam would have been extremely relevant tonight if I had drawn it in the Lands matchups. And it cantrips, which is just gravy. The main Graveyard hate I seem to be seeing in BUG decks is DRS, Surgical, and Grafdigger's Cage, all of which can be played around with the addition of Ground Seal (just hardcast Ooze and Entomb Devourer for a lethal swing, because I've found out no one thinks it's worth chumping an Ooze!). Abrupt Decay is good as always, blowing up RIP and the Tormod's Crypts and Relic of Progenitus you see from the Esper Decks. I definitely agree with Raystar that they are the best cards to board now and it is correct to max both out at 4 copies each.

As an aside, I've figured out there is actually a line of play to beat Phyrexian Revoker on Ooze where you can't swing with Griselbrand due to StP, and even double Phyrexian Revoker (one on Ooze and the other on Griselbrand) with StP backup, pre-board. You need Buried Alive, and two reanimation spells. Buried Alive for Phyrexian Devourer, Necrotic Ooze, and Triskelion (making sure you order them correctly depending on what type of reanimation you're using), and use your reanimation to return both Ooze and Trisk. Use Trisk to ping both Revokers, and then itself, sending it back to the graveyard, and go off. Of course, if you need to play around StP here you need to very carefully select your reanimation spells / order your graveyard correctly. For example, you can't bring Ooze back first if they have StP, you have to bring back Trisk first, use it, send it back to the graveyard, and then bring Ooze back. This necessitates using Shallow Grave on the Trisk and Reanimate on the Ooze. You can't use Exhume on the Ooze because that allows the Revoker to come back, ruining your day. I'm actually seriously considering bringing in Surgical Extraction against D&T to hit Revoker because it is such a pain in the arse. This play becomes a lot easier to set up with Lim-Dul's vault, because it allows you to find the appropriate reanimation spells.

[pandaman]

Oozed to 2nd place in one of the Legacy side events at GP Melbourne. Beat D&T, lost to Esper Control, beat Goblins and D&T to ID with Omnishow into Top 8, then beat Reanimator in the quartets, D&T in the semis and lost to D&T in the finals. Report to come, because I still misplayed despite the reasonably good result.

I won 2 True-Name Nemesis for my trouble.

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[Raystar]

Oozed to 2nd place in one of the Legacy side events at GP Melbourne. Beat D&T, lost to Esper Control, beat Goblins and D&T to ID with Omnishow into Top 8, then beat Reanimator in the quartets, D&T in the semis and lost to D&T in the finals. Report to come, because I still misplayed despite the reasonably good result.

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Did you like the Probes? What about the sideboard?

I actually liked the Revoker scenario you described in your previous post. I believe that the 4 Decay out of the SB should cover the issue but what you described is certainly a very cool answer to that form of hate.

[pandaman]

I didn't actually draw Probe as much as I would have liked. I didn't play DRS all day so I didn't use Ground Seal. Abrupt Decay got a workout, though. I admit I did get my fair share of Turn 1 and 2 kills! I still like 4 Ponder, though. But no arguing with results!

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[pandaman]

I have come to the conclusion that discard isn't very good against D&T. They are so consistent with drawing hate pieces that I am thinking of simply siding out discard for ADs and just keeping the combo as consistent as possible. The only time I see no discard as a problem is when they have a Vial on 2 and you want to go off, but don't know if they have a Thalia of SotL to put in. Or on 3 to Flickerwisp your Ooze. I will test with my mates and see.

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[pandaman]

Oozed to a 3-0-1 finish at the local last night, netting myself $40 store credit. Still making some sub-optimal plays so tournament reports are useful.

Round 1 v Punishing Jund. Win 2-1

Game 1, my opponent is on the play, and fortunately does not lead with a Deathrite Shaman. From there, it's elementary to Ponder, Brainstorm, and Gitaxian Probe into the combo.

In: 4 Ground Seal, 1 Necrotic Ooze, 1 Exhume. Out: 1 Griselbrand, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Reanimate, 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Buried Alive.

Game 2, I have to mull to 5, and decide to Ritual out a Ground Seal after taking a Tarmogoyf with Thoughtseize, leaving my opponent with a Deathrite Shaman, Pyroblast, and Liliana of the Veil in hand. He rips Dark Confidant and starts drawing into gas, while I draw into nothing and die.

Game 3, I jump back on the play, and lead with a Thoughtseize, taking a Dark Confidant. It gets to the stage that I have an Entomb in hand with a Ground Seal in play, and he is swinging at me with a Tarmogoyf and Deathrite Shaman. I draw a Necrotic Ooze and Dark Ritual in succession, which I use to put The Blob onto the battlefield. A turn before lethal, I swing with Ooze. He checks the size of his Tarmogoyf (6/7) and declines to block. He obviously doesn't know the Entomb-into-Phyrexian Devourer trick. I make The Blob big and bash him for a lot of lethal damage. He is a little indignant, and I would understand, because when people don't block they reach for their life-counter and say "taking 4?" and are very confused when I stop them. Some even think I should let them go back and declare a block since I have something to do...

Round 2 v BUG Control. Win 2-1

Great. BUG. I do, however, get to start on the play, and have a hand with Entomb, Buried Alive, 2 Shallow Grave, a Necrotic Ooze, and 2 land. No disruption, but if I sequence correctly I should be able to exhaust all his counterspells and play around his Deathrite Shaman. I start jamming spells after he (incorrectly) taps out his Deathrite Shaman. Eventually it gets to the stage where I have to go for Entomb>Griselbrand and Shallow Grave, which, amazingly, resolves, and he scoops them up.

In: 4 Ground Seal, 1 Necrotic Ooze, 1 Exhume. Out: 1 Griselbrand, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Reanimate, 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Buried Alive

With him on the play, I face down triple Deathrite Shaman, Force of Will and triple Spell Pierce. The peanut gallery starts ribbing him about cheating. I obviously don't win this game, although I do get very close with a Necrotic Ooze swinging unblocked with 2 Entomb that get Force and Pierced respectively.

Game 3 I am back on the play, and subsequently find myself up against a Tormod's Crypt and a Deathrite Shaman. Fortunately, I am able to bait him into Forcing a Lim-Dul's Vault at the end of one of my turns, allowing me to untap and play an Ooze with Cabal Therapy protection, seeing nothing in hand. Ooze again does its thing, swinging for lethal with the help of an Entombed Devourer. The peanut gallery haven't seen this before, and there are many gasps of "Holy shit, graveyard hate doesn't work" and "That is disgusting."

Round 3 v Bant Counterslivers. Draw 1-1-1.

Game 1 he plays out Muscle and Sinew Slivers left, right, and centre, but I find the Exhume for an Entombed Griselbrand the turn before he has me for lethal. I pass without drawing cards, intending to block and survive another turn, swing my next turn and gain enough life to draw 14. He has the Swords to Plowshares as the last card in his hand. I draw 7 in response, but don't find the Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave God-draw I need to keep me in it.

Out: 1 Chrome Mox, 2 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Griselbrand. In: 2 Ground Seal, 2 Abrupt Decay (I have no idea what he is boarding).

Game 2 I jump on the play, and a Turn 1 Gitaxian Probe him finding nothing of consequence, so I Exhume a Griselbrand and pass the turn. He plays out a Phyrexian Revoker on Turn 2 and I draw 7 in response, and find an Abrupt Decay to end the artifact horror, swinging for lethal the following turn.

Game 3, he is back on the play, but thankfully doesn't put as much pressure on me. In fact, he misses his second land drop, and the fact he has laid no hate suggests to me that he's got Surgical Extraction and counterspells in hand. I assemble a hand with Entomb, Buried Alive, Reanimate, 2 Shallow Grave, and a Dark Ritual, with 4 mana on the board. My Buried Alive resolves, but my Reanimate is countered. I crack a fetchland, and in response he Surgical Extractions my Ooze. I realise that I only have an Island untapped, so I can't Shallow Grave. I should have planned my mana better. It turns out he had a second Surgical Extraction. We draw.

Round 4 v Reanimator

Game 1 has me on the draw, and he manages to Entomb a Griselbrand on Turn 2 after I whiff on a Cabal Therapy naming Entomb (I know he doesn't bin stuff unless he can reaminate it with protection). I see a Thoughtseize, Griselbrand, Lotus Petal, and Exhume and he uses them in that order to get the Demon. It makes short work of me.

Game 2 I jump on the play, use a Gitaxian Probe to see the coast is clear, and then get a Griselbrand, but on the very first turn of the game. He rips a Pithing Needle off his shuffled Ponder, and I draw 7 in response to him casting it (I didn't board Abrupt Decay). I then cast an Ooze, and he rips ANOTHER Pithing Needle to shut Mr Slimy down, too. Never mind, I just beat for the win, somewhat begrudged that I have to beat down and can't do cool things.

Game 3 he is on the play, but I open the best hand of the night: Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Surgical Extraction, Entomb, Exhume, 2 land. And draw a Brainstorm in my draw step. He leads with a Careful Study (?!?!?!) binning Iona and something inconsequential, and I ready my Surgical Extraction, fully prepared to be scooping after it gets Force of Willed or Dazed. However, he simply passes the turn? Ok, draw my Brainstorm, Surgical Extraction on Iona, seeing double Brainstorm in hand, Cabal Therapy those, and pass the turn. I Thoughtseize second turn, see that he hasn't drawn anything to help him, and Entomb EoT for an Exhume 3rd turn for a Griselbrand. He AGAIN gets a Pithing Needle naming Griselbrand, and I am again forced to beat with the Demon. But, hey, I'll take it!

I like Ground Seal: it totally neuters Deathrite Shaman and Surgical Extraction, and most people take out their Abrupt Decay in the matchup. MOST people. And most people who play BUG and Jund play Surgical Extraction or Grafdigger's Cage. MOST people. People around my meta, however, like Tormod's Crypt, which makes proper sideboarding a chore sometimes.

[Raystar]

Nice report...

Good job mate!!

Yes I'm more and more convinced that Ground Seal is what the deck needs at the moment.

I love it when people get stunned by an unblocked Ooze, it's one of the coolest plays of the deck :cool:

Tormod's Crypt is only partially relevant, you just need to have Ooze in play and if they rely on the crypt they die horribly...

I think I'm going to sleeve the deck again this Sunday, I get too excited when I read other people reports :wink:

[Raystar]

Good job mate!!

Yes I'm more and more convinced that Ground Seal is what the deck needs at the moment.

I love it when people get stunned by an unblocked Ooze, it's one of the coolest plays of the deck :cool:

Tormod's Crypt is only partially relevant, you just need to have Ooze in play and if they rely on the crypt they die horribly...

I think I'm going to sleeve the deck again this Sunday, I get too excited when I read other people reports :wink:

I forgot to ask: you were playing the 61 card list with Lim Dul's Vault, weren't you?

[pandaman]

Thanks, Raystar, yes I was playing the 61-card list:

2 Swamp
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox
3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp
4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
1 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Gitaxian Probe

4 Ground Seal
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Exhume
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction

I will get around to writing a report for the 2nd place tournament, but it won't be as interesting because I only played two decks with counters. I did, however, beat Death & Taxes three times, so I'm sure you will enjoy reading about that! :)

[Raystar]

Hehe good stuff :laugh:

Changing subject, I'm experimenting with a crazy build. As soon as I'm confident you won't laugh at me I'll pm it to you...

[pandaman]

Awesome I love new builds. We've been tweaking this now for quite some time so someone is due to shake it up!

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[pandaman]

I played my Grixis Painter brew last night. Why do I stray from The Ooze? It's always terrible when I do... Please don't let me do it again...

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[pandaman]

Also breaking my promise to Raystar, sorry mate, work has been crazy, as have weekends and free time, I didn't get to build your brew. I must pay a penalty, name your price...

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[Raystar]

Also breaking my promise to Raystar, sorry mate, work has been crazy, as have weekends and free time, I didn't get to build your brew. I must pay a penalty, name your price...

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Hehe, don't worry :)

On Sunday I played a version of the pile I sent you with some changes to accomodate a playset of brainstorm and...it didn't go well at all :D

The BG version seems better but not stronger than the refined version of Oozing that we have arrived at. I have another tournament on Sunday but I think I'll play something else to have a change of scenario.

[pandaman]

I wanted to raise the question of non-permanent anti-hate. Good BUG players will leave Abrupt Decay in against us, which will allow them to destroy our Ground Seal. Would a non-permanent answer such as Echoing Truth or Chain of Vapor be better instead? I know Tin Fins uses non-permanent hate, but we seem to have gone the other way. Given that Ground Seal is primarily in the sideboard for BUG, I think it merits some discussion.

In other news, I have been playing other decks recently and have been underwhelmed. I love the speed and raw power of this deck, the fact that it has an instant win combo that can win even if you can't target the opponent, and the fact that it top-decks rewardingly when you play to your outs. I think I might be rocking this at BoM after all. Pros include the aforementioned, plus never going to time and having the opportunity for scouting and toilet and food breaks between rounds :)

[Rxfisl]

Hi guys!

Awesome deck! I was building something very similar and stumbled upon this thread! Great info, very helpful reports and card selection ideas.

A few thoughts on non-permanent hate:

Ground Seal feels very powerful against DRS and Hymn though? (picking up that line of argument from the posts before) It's not only that they cannot remove your key cards but it also denies them extra mana. Also, them destroying it gives you a 1 card advantage and chain/echo don't do anything against extractions.

1 time answers are more taxing on your mana but might be more versatile. But then again AD is a good one time answer to most cards anyway and we have 4 of those in the SB.

The mind games are not getting better w/o GS either I feel. If your opponent does know your list, and thus knows that you do not run GS they will board out AD. If they do not know your list, it is very likely that they will board AD out because they might not even know about GS. The one positive path of "they dont know your list but believe theres GS in your SB and leave 4 dead cards in AD in their deck" feels a bit lackluster to put my money on (and AD can always still destroy your mox or your imp :P).

To gain another perspective: Which are the key situations where you would like non-permanent cards over GS?

Keep calm and ooze on!
Rx

[pandaman]

Hi guys!

Awesome deck! I was building something very similar and stumbled upon this thread! Great info, very helpful reports and card selection ideas.

A few thoughts on non-permanent hate:

Ground Seal feels very powerful against DRS and Hymn though? (picking up that line of argument from the posts before) It's not only that they cannot remove your key cards but it also denies them extra mana. Also, them destroying it gives you a 1 card advantage and chain/echo don't do anything against extractions.

1 time answers are more taxing on your mana but might be more versatile. But then again AD is a good one time answer to most cards anyway and we have 4 of those in the SB.

The mind games are not getting better w/o GS either I feel. If your opponent does know your list, and thus knows that you do not run GS they will board out AD. If they do not know your list, it is very likely that they will board AD out because they might not even know about GS. The one positive path of "they dont know your list but believe theres GS in your SB and leave 4 dead cards in AD in their deck" feels a bit lackluster to put my money on (and AD can always still destroy your mox or your imp :P).

To gain another perspective: Which are the key situations where you would like non-permanent cards over GS?

Keep calm and ooze on!
Rx

I wanted to pose the question to get some discussion going, thank you for your response.

I agree, Ground Seal seems exactly what we need at the moment. We can weather all types of discard as long as our graveyard remains safe. Team America plays DRS, Surgical Extraction, and Grafdigger's Cage the vast majority of the time, and Ground Seal addresses all those in one card. None of your reanimation targets, and you usually just plop an Ooze on the board with Phyrexian Devourer in the bin and swing with The Blob for the win - Grafdigger's Cage doesn't stop that, which surprises a lot of people.

Abrupt Decay is also exactly what we need - low-cost and un-counterable answer to any permanent hate printed that sees play in Legacy (except for Leyline of Sancity). You can't really say much more about it, and with 7-8 fetchlands you can manage your mana so you'll have access to Green when you need it.

My sideboard is currently:

4 Ground Seal
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize

The breakdown is that I want to beat the top decks from March 2014: Team America, Miracles, Death & Taxes, Deathblade, Sneak Attack, and Jund.

Against Team America, you board in 4 Ground Seal and a Necrotic Ooze. The plan is to land a Ground Seal and eventually Exhume or Shallow Grave an Ooze with a Phyrexian Devourer in the graveyard for a lethal attack. Team America (and many other BUG decks) are almost cold to this because AD doesn't affect Ooze, leaving them (usually) with Liliana as the only out. Also, this avenue plays around their common graveyard hate.

Against Miracles, you board 4 Abrupt Decay and 2 Reverent Silence. The plan is to build mana (because they don't have a clock) while preventing your combo from going into the graveyard. Then, when the time is right, AD/Reverent Silence their RiP/CB and go off.

Against Death & Taxes, you board in 4 Abrupt Decay. The plan is to go off as quickly as possible (ideally Turn 1 on the draw/Turn 2 on the play) or, failing that, AD whatever is preventing you from advancing your game plan (usually Thalia or Revoker, but to a lesser extent Spirit of the Labyrinth).

Against DeathBlade, you board 4 Ground Seal, but you may have to board a combination of AD and Reverent Silence because with access to White mana, sometimes you see RiP. Deathblade is actually the hardest deck to sideboard against for this reason, which makes it even more important that you play tight and win Game 1.

Against Jund, you board 4 Ground Seal. The plan is to go off early, or to land a Ground Seal and then take your time. This matchup is much the same as Team America except you only have to worry about discard, not counterspells as well.

Against Sneak Attack, you board in 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Thoughtseize, and 1 Necrotic Ooze. You are faster than they are, but they have counterspells. If you can get a Necrotic Ooze out you should do so because they can't counter it apart from Force of Will, which is a 2-for-1. Necrotic Ooze beatdown is surprisingly effective, and any Entomb or Buried Alive off the top then wins you the game. If you have a Devourer in hand, any discard also wins you the game. A note: you may need Reverent Silence in this matchup because they may board in Leyline of Sancity against your discard, which is an absolute beating.

I will update later with what I would board out, but I would love opinions on this board! Thanks in advance, ladies and gents.

[Raystar]

I wanted to pose the question to get some discussion going, thank you for your response.

I agree, Ground Seal seems exactly what we need at the moment. We can weather all types of discard as long as our graveyard remains safe. Team America plays DRS, Surgical Extraction, and Grafdigger's Cage the vast majority of the time, and Ground Seal addresses all those in one card. None of your reanimation targets, and you usually just plop an Ooze on the board with Phyrexian Devourer in the bin and swing with The Blob for the win - Grafdigger's Cage doesn't stop that, which surprises a lot of people.

Abrupt Decay is also exactly what we need - low-cost and un-counterable answer to any permanent hate printed that sees play in Legacy (except for Leyline of Sancity). You can't really say much more about it, and with 7-8 fetchlands you can manage your mana so you'll have access to Green when you need it.

My sideboard is currently:

4 Ground Seal
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize

The breakdown is that I want to beat the top decks from March 2014: Team America, Miracles, Death & Taxes, Deathblade, Sneak Attack, and Jund.

Against Team America, you board in 4 Ground Seal and a Necrotic Ooze. The plan is to land a Ground Seal and eventually Exhume or Shallow Grave an Ooze with a Phyrexian Devourer in the graveyard for a lethal attack. Team America (and many other BUG decks) are almost cold to this because AD doesn't affect Ooze, leaving them (usually) with Liliana as the only out. Also, this avenue plays around their common graveyard hate.

Against Miracles, you board 4 Abrupt Decay and 2 Reverent Silence. The plan is to build mana (because they don't have a clock) while preventing your combo from going into the graveyard. Then, when the time is right, AD/Reverent Silence their RiP/CB and go off.

Against Death & Taxes, you board in 4 Abrupt Decay. The plan is to go off as quickly as possible (ideally Turn 1 on the draw/Turn 2 on the play) or, failing that, AD whatever is preventing you from advancing your game plan (usually Thalia or Revoker, but to a lesser extent Spirit of the Labyrinth).

Against DeathBlade, you board 4 Ground Seal, but you may have to board a combination of AD and Reverent Silence because with access to White mana, sometimes you see RiP. Deathblade is actually the hardest deck to sideboard against for this reason, which makes it even more important that you play tight and win Game 1.

Against Jund, you board 4 Ground Seal. The plan is to go off early, or to land a Ground Seal and then take your time. This matchup is much the same as Team America except you only have to worry about discard, not counterspells as well.

Against Sneak Attack, you board in 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Thoughtseize, and 1 Necrotic Ooze. You are faster than they are, but they have counterspells. If you can get a Necrotic Ooze out you should do so because they can't counter it apart from Force of Will, which is a 2-for-1. Necrotic Ooze beatdown is surprisingly effective, and any Entomb or Buried Alive off the top then wins you the game. If you have a Devourer in hand, any discard also wins you the game. A note: you may need Reverent Silence in this matchup because they may board in Leyline of Sancity against your discard, which is an absolute beating.

I will update later with what I would board out, but I would love opinions on this board! Thanks in advance, ladies and gents.

Couldn't have written it better ;)

[pandaman]

Oozed to 2-1-1 record at last night's local. The last testing date (in Australia, at least) before I head to France for BoM. I'm arriving in Paris this Saturday morning and will tour around for two weeks before heading to Annecy on the afternoon of the 30th.

Round 1 v 8-Ball Tez - Win 2-1

I have a Turn 1 kill on the play, which I run into his Force of Will. I then draw back up and try to go off a second time, by which time he's drawn another Force of Will. I then get Tezz'd.

Game 2 I take the play again, and open up with a lot of disruption (Ground Seal x 2, Abrupt Decay x 3), which clears the way for... well... nothing, really. I'm durdling around, but luckily, so is he. I manage to shred his hand with two Thoughtseize and a Cabal Therapy hitting 2 TtS's, but he lands the remaining TAoB and starts doing his thing. I Abrupt Decay two Thopor Foundry but he eventually gets six artifacts on the Board and ultimates Tezz. I use my third Abrupt Decay in response on his Nihil Spellbomb, go to 2, take a hit from a Thopter token and go to one, then proceed to rip the reanimation spell I need to win the game!

Game 3, he's on the play, but doesn't lay a Turn 1 hate piece. I then go Swamp, Thoughtseize, Petal, Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave. He scoops them up.

Round 2 v Bant - Win 2-1

Game 1 I am on the play, and Brainstorm and Cantrip into a Buried Alive win with Cabal Therapy. He has dropped a Delver and has tapped out on Turn 2 for a SfM, so I Cabal Therapy naming (and hitting) a FoW on Turn 3 and play out my combo for the win.

Game 2 he takes the play and (fortunately) can't flip his three delvers to save his life. I make a mistake of Abrupt Decaying a Vendilion Clique in the attack step, and he slams a RiP in his second main. I end up hard-casting Triskelion to 3-1 for one his unflipped Delvers, but it's only a matter of time before he finds another creature to finish me off.

Game 3, I take the play and open with a Thoughtseize (with Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Buried Alive, Entomb, Shallow Grave in hand) to see Karakas, Strand, Fow, Fow, Daze, Daze, Delver. Holy. Shit. I take Delver, hoping he won't draw any more pressure. Thankfully, I find another Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy off the top of my deck (I love you, deck) to take a FoW and force a second FoW on the Therapy, leaving him with Daze and Unknown Card in hand on my Turn 3. I figure he surely can't have any more than 5 hate pieces this early, and ram my combo through his Daze to get a Griselbrand into play. I can draw only 14 (because ofThoughtseizes) but find 3 Petals, an Ooze, a Triskelion, an Entomb, and another Shallow Grave. That's enough, so I play out the Petals, pass the turn discarding Trisk and Ooze, and then Shallow Grave the Ooze in his upkeep, Entomb for Devourer, and win. He's flabbergasted that I can use the discard step to my advantage and win in that manner!

Round 3 v Home Brew Reanimator - Draw 1-1

This is one crazy Reanimator Brew, using Master of Cruelties and Lightning Bolt as well as the usual Tin Fins package. Game 1 eventually comes down to me having to Reanimate Oozes from the graveyard to Cabal Therapy Bolts from his hand so that Master of Cruelties doesn't kill me. Eventually, however, I find the combo and swing for the win with a massive Ooze.

Game 2, we go to turns, but he goes off on the last turn to force a draw. I am disappointed, I feel that I am definitely favoured in the matchup and would have won the third game.

Round 4 v Death & Taxes - Loss 1-2

Game 1 I go off Turn 4 after Theraying Swords to Plowshares and Reanimating a Griselbrand that finds me the Ooze Combo (Phyrexian Revoker was naming Grizzels)

Game 2 I implement my new sideboard strategy of siding out discard to get hate and keep the combo as consistent as possible. I also implement the "keep any hand that could turn into a Turn 1 kill" play, but unfortunately I don't hit the reanimation I need off my Brainstorm and die to layers upon layers of hate.

Game 3, I keep a promising one-lander with Brainstorm, Ponder, and one part of the combo, but my deck doesn't show me the other part by Turn 3 and I again die to layers of hate.

So, lessons learned today:

Deck is sick fun.
Death & Taxes is a bad matchup if you can't go off early.
Sideboard needs to deal better with Death & Taxes.
Discard is incredibly important and I think it should come in against counter decks, perhaps in place of Gitaxian Probe?

I ran with my standard maindeck, changed up slightly:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand (this should be a Bloodstained Mire, the fact that it wasn't cost me a game because I couldn't fetch a basic Swamp)
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Exhume
1 Reanimate

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize

I ran the following sideboard:

4 Ground Seal
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction

In the main deck, I think that the Flooded Strand needs to be a Bloodstained Mire (I think fetching basic Swamp is better than Island).

In the sideboard, the deck needs more to combat Death & Taxes. I have been thinking of changing up the board as follows:

4 Ground Seal
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction

The Ooze from the Board is just gravy, and is rendered less necessary by the inclusion of 4 Ground Seal against BUG. I think 3 is sufficient to consistently see it with your cantrips. Also, against BUG you can Board discard or a singleton Abrupt Decay as well, if you like. 4 Abrupt Decay is great, but a board of 3 AD and 2 Reverent Silence is super strong v Miracles, and 3 AD, 2 Reverent Silence, 2 Massacre is incredibly strong against D&T. So I think I will run with that at the BoM Grinders.

Who will I see there? I will be the very travel-weary looking Australian in a grey coat and dark jeans (pretty much the only clothes I will be taking on the trip). If you see me, please come and say hello and chat Legacy and Vintage! And of course I always LOVE to talk Oozing Style and Class!

[Pin_Vlc]

I love this deck !

Can you tell your sb plan vs tiers ?

Then i can post my version :D .

[Raystar]

I love this deck !

Can you tell your sb plan vs tiers ?

Then i can post my version :D .

Hey,

assuming the sideboard that you see in the post above yours:

4 Ground Seal
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction

- against BUG and Jund you would side in the 4 Ground Seal for a Griselbrand, a ponder and two probes
- against Miracle you bring in 3 Abrupt Decay and 2 Reverent Silence for a Griselbrand, 2 probes, Lim-Dul's Vault and Reanimate
- against Canadian go in 2 Ground Seal and 2 Thoughtseize for a Griselbrand, a ponder and two probes
- against D&T you bring in 3 AD and 2 Massacre for a Griselbrand, 2 probes, Lim-Dul's Vault and 1 Exhume
- against combo you side in 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Surgical Extraction for a Griselbrand, a ponder a Necrotic Ooze and a Lim-Dul's Vault

I hope this helps!

[pandaman]

I have to say I sideboard a little bit differently, although only a little. I never take out digging spells like Ponder and Lim-Dul's Vault because they help you smooth your draws and find your hate, both of which are increasingly important post board. But I would agree with the majority of Raystar's recommendations.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Pin_Vlc]

Hey,

assuming the sideboard that you see in the post above yours:

4 Ground Seal
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction

- against BUG and Jund you would side in the 4 Ground Seal for a Griselbrand, a ponder and two probes
- against Miracle you bring in 3 Abrupt Decay and 2 Reverent Silence for a Griselbrand, 2 probes, Lim-Dul's Vault and Reanimate
- against Canadian go in 2 Ground Seal and 2 Thoughtseize for a Griselbrand, a ponder and two probes
- against D&T you bring in 3 AD and 2 Massacre for a Griselbrand, 2 probes, Lim-Dul's Vault and 1 Exhume
- against combo you side in 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Surgical Extraction for a Griselbrand, a ponder a Necrotic Ooze and a Lim-Dul's Vault

I hope this helps!

Thx for the help and tips,now my latest list :

// Lands
2 [LRW] Swamp (2)
1 [8E] Island (3)
2 [B] Underground Sea
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [A] Tropical Island
2 [A] Bayou

// Creatures
1 [AL] Phyrexian Devourer
1 [M11] Triskelion
3 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
2 [AVR] Griselbrand
1 [TO] Putrid Imp

// Spells
3 [WL] Buried Alive
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Shallow Grave
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [A] Dark Ritual
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
2 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
4 [OD] Entomb
3 [US] Exhume
2 [LRW] Ponder
2 [M13] Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 [M13] Ground Seal
SB: 2 [NE] Massacre
SB: 2 [NE] Reverent Silence


I dont like play Mox chrome, i prefer play land #16 ( tropical island ) and my sideboard its a little diferent.

[Raystar]

Hello everybody, just made top4 to a 21 people event. It was an "invitation" only event with pretty good players with a very significant presence of combo decks. I decided to sleeve some of the tech that Pandaman suggested for his list (61 cards and Lim-Dul's Vault) and was rewarded by doing it.

I played the following list:

2 Griselbrand
3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion

4 Brainstorm
3 Buried Alive
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
2 Exhume
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
3 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal

2 Bayou
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Exhume
4 Ground Seal
2 Massacre
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize


We were on a 5 rounds plus Top8 schedule and the the tournament didn't start in the best way: I went 0-2 and thought about dropping...luckily I decided to play it anyway :) Here you go with a brief report.

Round 1: Graveyard Storm 1-2. I'm on the draw (you'll notice a pattern here :) ).

G1: I haven't played Oozing in a while and take a turn too much to set up the combo (I just didn't see a line of play that would have made me combo faster) and end up tendril-ed on his turn 3 with me able to combo on my 3rd turn too. Out: 1 Griselbrand and 2 probes. In: 1 Thoughtseize and 2 Surgical Extraction
G2: I combo on my 3rd turn after discarding some of his business on turn 1
G3: He combos on his 3rd turn after I extirpated his brainstorm to mess up with his top deck and discarded his Burning Wish. Of course I would have been able to combo on my 3rd also

Round 2: ANT: 1-2. Guess: I'm on the draw...

G1: he comboes on his 2nd with rit-rit-rit-led-infernal....of course I would have comboed the turn after. Out: 1 Griselbrand and 2 probes. In: 1 Thoughtseize and 2 Surgical Extraction
G2: I disrupt him a bit and combo out on my turn 3
G3: I have Thoughtseize plus cabal therapy ready for my turn 1....but I don't get to play them because he combos through Ad Nauseam on his first turn...I hate the dice roll...

Round 3: RW Goblins. On the draw again...

G1: I manage to exhume a Grisebrand after having discarded 2 Matrons and 2 Piledrivers through double cabal therapy and ride that without going for the combo (to avoid him to know what the deck is about). Out: 1 Griselbrand, 2 Probe and 1 Ponder 1 reanimate. In: 4 Ground Seal and 1 Exhume
G2: I didn't see any white source on G1 so I put him surgical extraction and/or artifact gy hate...I was obviously wrong :) he opens with wasteland on relic of progenitus and follows up with plateau on RiP...to G3 we go :) another ponder goes out and I exchange the seals with 3 AD and 2 Reverent Silence.
G3: I exhume a turn 2 Griselbrand but decide to not activate it (he only played Vial on T1). He obviously has the RiP, I decided to play the same game I played on G1 but on his T3 with vial on 2 he matron for the bouncer and vial it in on my griselbrand. I draw twice in response and see all I need to break his RiP and combo out on T3...pheeeeewwww

R4: UR Delver. I win the dice roll!!!

G1: after sneaking through his counters and taking damage from an early Goblin Guide and a Delver I manage to exhume a Griselbrand and ride it to victory (thanks Lim-Dul's Vault!!). Out: 1 Griselbrand, 2 Probe and 1 Ponder 1 reanimate. In: 4 Ground Seal and 1 Exhume
G2: He starts again with Guide but I'm able to Buried alive and exhume after having managed his hand. I love to play against blue decks :)

R4: Dark Depths combo....and on the draw I go again :)

G1: I'm faster than him with a turn 2 reanimated Ooze into double entomb. Out: 1 Griselbrand and 2 probes. In: 1 Thoughtseize and 2 Surgical Extraction
G2: I discard his double Crop Rotation and proceed to exhume Griselbrand to combo out. He was a bit unlucky and didn't see any oh his needles and Sphere of Resistance...

I'm on T8 as the 7th!! I would not have believed it after my first 2 losses :)

Quarter Final: LED Dredge. On the draw, of course

G1: I keep a slow hand and die. I should have taken a mulligan but I was greedy and got punished by it. Out: 3 Cabal Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize, 1 probe. In 4 Ground Seal and 2 Surgical Extraction
G2: I'm very fast and combo on turn 2 through the entire movie of Griselbrand drawing half of my deck.
G3: I discover that my sideboard strategy is very, very wrong: he starts with needle on Griselbrand...oh shit...I cantrip and he goes T2 Needle on Ooze...wtf! I look at his board and he hasn't started any crazy yu-gi-oh like thing with his deck so I resist the urge to concede and after extracting his Golgari Grave Troll and played a Ground Seal, I exhume a Griselbrand discarding it to a played Putrid Imp. Grizzie hits him once but gets a deadtouch dredger on his way and 2 zombies. I manage to play a Ooze and attack with it and a threshold-ed Imp. He gets the 6 point of damage and do nothing in his turn. I attack again and this time he blocks the Ooze with the zombies only getting 2 damage but loosing his only bridge. I have another Ooze in hand and I play it. He is at 8 and my board is Grizzie, ooze and Imp. I have a Shallow Grave in hand and I'm crossing my finger for his next draw. He draws faithless looting and is able to put another deadtouch flyer in the grave but he is not able to re-animate it. I draw cantrip, see entomb and proceed to shallow grave for triskelion to kill his blocker and win :) A surreal game...

Semi Final: MonoU OmniTell...guess...otfd

G1: He has Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and active Force. I empty his hand of all counters by casting my combo pieces but he sees the rest of his combo and I don't. Out: 1 Griselbrand and 2 probes. In: 1 Thoughtseize and 2 Surgical Extraction
G2: I destroy his hand but he sees what he needs afterwards while I don't. He top-decks his Enter the Infinite the turn before I would have top-decked the Buried Alive for the Ooze I had in play.

A good tournament and a lesson to teach me to bring Oozing out more often, it is still a very powerful deck and in the right meta can still cause some damage.

Peace,
Raystar

[Raystar]

Updated the OP with the new list.

[BoiledDenim]

I like this deck! I ordered all the cards for it, and have about 95% already in hand. I proxied the rest and started goldfishing. This deck seems super fast and somewhat resilient. I like it! I'm typically a goblins player but I like the idea of playing brainstorm in legacy. I didn't want to play another delver deck so this deck seems sweet! Thanks for all the work and tournament reports you have posted with this deck! I can't wait till tomorrow when I have all the cards and everyone at the LGS has their sideboard set up to beat Goblins (I have won 2 of the last 3 weeks and came in second the other week). This seems like a great meta game swap once all the sideboards have been adjusted to beat Goblins and Nic Fit (last weeks winner). I like having a somewhat unknown combo deck to audible into. This deck seems super good. I am not expecting great results since it will be my first outing with it (assuming everything arrives on time). Lim-Dul's Vault seems really good here.

[Raystar]

I like this deck! I ordered all the cards for it, and have about 95% already in hand. I proxied the rest and started goldfishing. This deck seems super fast and somewhat resilient. I like it! I'm typically a goblins player but I like the idea of playing brainstorm in legacy. I didn't want to play another delver deck so this deck seems sweet! Thanks for all the work and tournament reports you have posted with this deck! I can't wait till tomorrow when I have all the cards and everyone at the LGS has their sideboard set up to beat Goblins (I have won 2 of the last 3 weeks and came in second the other week). This seems like a great meta game swap once all the sideboards have been adjusted to beat Goblins and Nic Fit (last weeks winner). I like having a somewhat unknown combo deck to audible into. This deck seems super good. I am not expecting great results since it will be my first outing with it (assuming everything arrives on time). Lim-Dul's Vault seems really good here.

Good stuff!!

Remember that you may want to be able to reach 4 mana to cast Ooze if needed so take special care to not expose yourself to wasteland. G1 there is no need to fetch for bayou, so avoid it if possible. You are generally ok with fetching for basics the first two turns if you play against an heavy wasteland deck. Use you cabal therapy wisely: if you think that your opponent doesn't have gas, save the therapy to bin a griselbrand if needed.

Let us know how it goes and ooze them all to death :)

[BoiledDenim]

If I shallow grave a Griselrand, and then 2nd main sac Griselbrand to flashback Cabal Therapy, does the Griselbrand still get exiled?

[Quasim0ff]

If I shallow grave a Griselrand, and then 2nd main sac Griselbrand to flashback Cabal Therapy, does the Griselbrand still get exiled?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shallow+grave

[Raystar]

If I shallow grave a Griselrand, and then 2nd main sac Griselbrand to flashback Cabal Therapy, does the Griselbrand still get exiled?

It doesn't get exiled, it is a pretty legitimate play that is used very often when you fish for 7 cards and sculpt your hand (and destroy the opponent's one :) ) for the following turn.

[Raystar]

I like this deck! I ordered all the cards for it, and have about 95% already in hand. I proxied the rest and started goldfishing. This deck seems super fast and somewhat resilient. I like it! I'm typically a goblins player but I like the idea of playing brainstorm in legacy. I didn't want to play another delver deck so this deck seems sweet! Thanks for all the work and tournament reports you have posted with this deck! I can't wait till tomorrow when I have all the cards and everyone at the LGS has their sideboard set up to beat Goblins (I have won 2 of the last 3 weeks and came in second the other week). This seems like a great meta game swap once all the sideboards have been adjusted to beat Goblins and Nic Fit (last weeks winner). I like having a somewhat unknown combo deck to audible into. This deck seems super good. I am not expecting great results since it will be my first outing with it (assuming everything arrives on time). Lim-Dul's Vault seems really good here.

How did your tournament go? We are curious :)

[BoiledDenim]

I am still waiting on a few cards to arrive so I was not able to play it in the tourney. That being said, I did proxy what was missing and so some test games against my nemesis (he plays Nic Shift and owns my Goblins every week he shows up, otherwise I typically win), I also played against manaless dredge. I won 5 out 5 games against Nic Shift (no post board games, all "game 1's). He did profess that his deck was weak to combo and strong against fair decks. I agreed, having been on both sides of it. Against dredge I was either able to combo out, or hit him with a G. Brand and flashback cabal therapy killing his Bridges. Next turn, Shallow Grave, Rinse, and Repeat. Donzo. Deck seems good! I like it. The only card I don't like is Reanimate. I am considering taking out the reanimate since it is very bad with our sideboard ground seal. I am playing chrome mox so I am considering taking out reanimate for a tropical island. I did a lot of mulliganing (and still got there!) so it seems an extra land might be usefull. Turn 1 Brainstorm with a fetch in hand to shuffle with is really good (or a ponder/entomb). I liked the way it played. I am an aggro player at heart so it was weird playing a combo deck. As it is I placed 3rd out of 8. I had to play Nic Shift in round 2 instead of round 3 so I didnt get 2nd which is usually the case. We usually have between 8 and 16 players show for Legacy night.

[Raystar]

I am still waiting on a few cards to arrive so I was not able to play it in the tourney. That being said, I did proxy what was missing and so some test games against my nemesis (he plays Nic Shift and owns my Goblins every week he shows up, otherwise I typically win), I also played against manaless dredge. I won 5 out 5 games against Nic Shift (no post board games, all "game 1's). He did profess that his deck was weak to combo and strong against fair decks. I agreed, having been on both sides of it. Against dredge I was either able to combo out, or hit him with a G. Brand and flashback cabal therapy killing his Bridges. Next turn, Shallow Grave, Rinse, and Repeat. Donzo. Deck seems good! I like it. The only card I don't like is Reanimate. I am considering taking out the reanimate since it is very bad with our sideboard ground seal. I am playing chrome mox so I am considering taking out reanimate for a tropical island. I did a lot of mulliganing (and still got there!) so it seems an extra land might be usefull. Turn 1 Brainstorm with a fetch in hand to shuffle with is really good (or a ponder/entomb). I liked the way it played. I am an aggro player at heart so it was weird playing a combo deck. As it is I placed 3rd out of 8. I had to play Nic Shift in round 2 instead of round 3 so I didnt get 2nd which is usually the case. We usually have between 8 and 16 players show for Legacy night.

Well done :)

If you look at my SB you'll notice the presence of an exhume to replace the reanimate post board for the reasons you indicated. Bear in mind that if you go to light in reanimation spells you may easily loose games to variance.

You also have a pretty strong "aggro" route with Griselbrand or a Ooze covered by an entomb.

Thanks for the feedback, tho. It's always very useful to get other views on the deck.

[BoiledDenim]

I am actually considering running Animate Dead or Goryo's Vengeance instead of Reanimate main deck. It seems that when you are stuck with a G. Brand in the yard and only Reanimate in hand you are scrwed. The mana it seems is less than an issue. The life is the issue. There have been several games where I had only a reanimate to get back a G. Brand where any other spell would have been better (life loss is equall to -7 cards!). I think we can produce enough mana with the petals and dark rits and actual land to run an aditional 2 mana spell. Also, opposing cabal therapys are never in 100 years going to name Goryo's Vengeance right off the bat. Reanimate hits Necrotic Ooze, but thats about it. reanimate on G. Brand is a huge tempo loss for us. Since they only viable creature for us to reanimate is Ooze, I am going to try Goryo's Vengeance out in that slot. I just think that out best option is always to bring a G.Brand in and attempt to combo out. If we don't have the God Hand that allows us to buried Alive the holy trinity into a Shallow Grave/Exhume then we are almost certainly going to bring in G. Brand and go for the cards to just "get there". With that line of play in mind, I think Goryo's Vengeance or Animate Dead is better. Animate dead suffers from almost the same issue as reanimate in that we only gain 6 life on the swing and need 7 to draw cars. I think the vengeance is better at allowing us to draw the cards we need to combo off. I'm gonna test it. Ordering a Vengeance today, hopefully here in time for next weeks tourney.

[BoiledDenim]

Been doing a lot of goldfishing with this deck and and Goryo's Vengeance seems fine for me. The mana cost has not been a problem (the optimal play for this deck is a 2cmc reanimation spell anyway).
For the life of me Ponder feels really clunky and usually just "left over" in my hand. Attacking with a G. Brand is super fun, as is drawing cards. Would this deck be more resilient without the combo? I like leaving in the Necrotic Ooze as a way to draw 7 with no shallow grave in hand but G.Brand in the yard. The strongest aspect of this deck, imho, is getting a fast G.Brand into play and ripping apart our opponents hand with discard effects before they can do anything about it. I'm gonna try to build on that theme and test out an alternate package with taking out some number (all?) of Ponders, Triskelion, and Devourer. Possibly adding in Carefull Study, and the full 4 Cabal Therapy, with as many Thoughtseize as I can find slots for. Giving up the combo seems counterproductive, I know. I just like how strong the reanimate/G.Brand/discard package has been performing and I want to try and expand on that strength and see what happens.

[pandaman]

Snip. Already answered.

[pandaman]

I am actually considering running Animate Dead or Goryo's Vengeance instead of Reanimate main deck. It seems that when you are stuck with a G. Brand in the yard and only Reanimate in hand you are scrwed. The mana it seems is less than an issue. The life is the issue. There have been several games where I had only a reanimate to get back a G. Brand where any other spell would have been better (life loss is equall to -7 cards!). I think we can produce enough mana with the petals and dark rits and actual land to run an aditional 2 mana spell. Also, opposing cabal therapys are never in 100 years going to name Goryo's Vengeance right off the bat. Reanimate hits Necrotic Ooze, but thats about it. reanimate on G. Brand is a huge tempo loss for us. Since they only viable creature for us to reanimate is Ooze, I am going to try Goryo's Vengeance out in that slot. I just think that out best option is always to bring a G.Brand in and attempt to combo out. If we don't have the God Hand that allows us to buried Alive the holy trinity into a Shallow Grave/Exhume then we are almost certainly going to bring in G. Brand and go for the cards to just "get there". With that line of play in mind, I think Goryo's Vengeance or Animate Dead is better. Animate dead suffers from almost the same issue as reanimate in that we only gain 6 life on the swing and need 7 to draw cars. I think the vengeance is better at allowing us to draw the cards we need to combo off. I'm gonna test it. Ordering a Vengeance today, hopefully here in time for next weeks tourney.

Personally, I don't run Animate Dead because I don't want to give anyone incentive to leave their Abrupt Decays in for the second game. If they see you're on Animate Dead they may do that. For me, it's important that there are no viable AD targets in Game 1, because that encourages BUG and Jund players to side out their ADs for Surgical Extractions and leaves them cold to my playset of Ground Seals from the sideboard. That usually leaves them with only one Tormod's Crypt/Nihil Spellbomb/Relic of Progenitus as an out (because Grafdigger's Cage doesn't work particularly well against this deck).

[pandaman]

Awesome tournament report from Raystar

Far out I want my Ooze deck back... :(

[pandaman]

By the way, this is the list I took to BoM:

Mainboard (61)

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Exhume
1 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard (15)

4 Ground Seal
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Massacre

I went 4-5 drop, and all of the above got stolen. But far out, BoM is mega fun. I drew pretty big crowds wondering what the hell I was doing getting Ooze, Trisk, and Devourer with Buried Alive in Legacy.

[BoiledDenim]

Played at the local game store tourney with this deck yesterday. Went 0-1-1 though I should have won the draw. I made a big play mistake that cost me the game. I'm ashamed, but I Entomb/Shallow Graved in a G.Brand to block a batterskull (I was at 7 life). I would have gotten away with to if it weren't for his meddling 3 open mana that he used to bounce Batterskull, gaining me no life, exiling G.Brand, and me no more cards in hand.
Game 3 I would have won but it went to time and turns and I couldn't beat him down with an Ooze and Triskelion in time. I conceded and game him the win because he looked like he needed it.
The first match of the night I lost to so much hate. I combo'd off on turn 2 of game 1. Game 2 I mulligan down to 4 cards just to have a playable hand. I Thoughtseize him and he Brainstorms, presumably hiding a FoW on top of his deck. 2 turns later I get a Brainstorm and draw into Entomb/Shallow Grave. I Entomb/Shallow Grave and he Surgical Extractions me. Game over. Game 3 I lost to a turn 4 Humility (sided in Ground Seal and Cabal Therapy 4). Pretty disappointing.
On a side note, Goryo's Vengeance was awesome. I got to use it twice to put a G.Brand into play. Not a single time I had it in my hand did I wish it was a Reanimate. Give it a try!

[Rxfisl]

I went 4-5 drop, and all of the above got stolen.

Did I read that correctly? Your deck got stolen??! How mean is that... . And how did that happen? Are you rebuilding?

[pandaman]

Did I read that correctly? Your deck got stolen??! How mean is that... . And how did that happen? Are you rebuilding?
You did read correctly. I haven't rebuilt yet, I'm still a little sad...

[Rxfisl]

You did read correctly. I haven't rebuilt yet, I'm still a little sad...

Man that sucks :(
Hope you get back in business soon!

[pandaman]

I'm thinking of borrowing the cards for tomorrow's monthly Legacy. Make it three Top 8s with Oozing from three attempts!

[Rxfisl]

I'm thinking of borrowing the cards for tomorrow's monthly Legacy. Make it three Top 8s with Oozing from three attempts!

Looking forward to your report - good luck!

[Raystar]

Go Go Go Panda!!

A bit absent because I'm moving to London, but I'll be back on the scene soon :)

[pandaman]

Ended up playing OmniTell to Top 4. Oozing would have got there too, though, 'cause, well, it's Oozing!

[Raystar]

Bringing Oozing to his first appearance in London tonight!!

I haven't played a tournament in months...the move, the job change...I'm so excited that I'm sure I'll make a mess :)

I'll let you know how it goes...

[Pin_Vlc]

My last top :

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14274&iddeck=105235

[pandaman]

Nice Top 8, mate. Raystar, how did you go? I'm missing Ooze...

[BoiledDenim]

Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time pretty insane in this deck. Phyrexian Devourer in GY with Ooze out lets you delve all you want.

[pandaman]

They are the Delve draw/dig spells, right? How does Phyrexian Devourer's ability help? It exiles cards, not puts them in the graveyard, doesn't it?

[BoiledDenim]

Oops. I meant Griselbrand card drawing. Seems we always end up with a pile of chaff in the GY. "So I need to draw a shallow grave to win, tap for Blue, play Treasure Cruise, draw 3". Seems good. I'm gonna try it out some more, but they are pretty dang good so far. I usually end up winning by chaining hasty GB attacks via shallow grave, goryo's vengeance, and cabal therapy. The ooze combo usually only happens when I get a super great draw 7 off GB anyway. So being able to draw an extra 3 or dig through the top 7 for a reanimate spell is is great.

[pandaman]

Right, I get you. I'll need to test. The dig one would be better than the draw one, I would imagine. But UU seems difficult. How have you found casting it consistently? Do you get Wastland-ed off the mana much?

[BoiledDenim]

Not many Wastelands in my meta. There are only 2 or 3 of us locally that have a playset. Wasteland doesnt seem to bother me much though. With fetches and basics, petals, and dark rituals and chrome mox I'm usually ok on mana.

[pandaman]

Wasteland is so annoying that I run three basics in a 15-land manabase. 2 Swamp 1 Island 3 USea 2 Bayou 4 Delta 1 Strand 1 Tarn 1 Misty 1 Catacombs.

[jamis]

I liked the idea of Treasure Cruise as a way to recover after the initial combo attempt fails, but it doesn't help dig for answers to a Rest in Peace, which is why I'm thinking it doesn't have a great place here. I want my dig spells to get me out of the worst possible case scenarios. The thing that really worries me though, is if these new delve cards take off, maindeck gravehate could also become much more commonplace, which incidentally is bad news for reanimator strategies. I may be wrong about all that, though since between Lotus Petals, Gitaxian Probes and whatnot, the graveyard does fill up quite a bit making early Treasure Cruises very possible and drawing cards is something a combo deck obviously wants. Still though, the reliance on the yard makes me want to stay away from it. If you give it a try, let me know how testing goes, I'm very interested.

[thefreakaccident]

Jamis, you seem like a lim-dul's vault kind of guy.

[pandaman]

Haha, actually that's more me! I always have a one-of sitting in my list. Saves you in a pinch and makes a good Chrome Mox imprint.

[jamis]

You know, I don't think I've played LDV since Griselbrand was printed, but I do remember having good results with it awhile back. I think I'll try running a singleton in a few events and see if I like it over the third Ponder I'm currently running. I don't run Chrome Mox, but the tutor ability alone is definitely strong.

[Pin_Vlc]

Hi !

I make 3 tops , 25 , 12 and 17 people .
My list :

// Pin_Vlc's deck

// Lands
2 [LRW] Swamp (2)
1 [8E] Island (3)
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [A] Tropical Island
2 [A] Bayou
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
1 [AL] Phyrexian Devourer
1 [M11] Triskelion
2 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
2 [AVR] Griselbrand
1 [TO] Putrid Imp
1 [GTC] Borborygmos Enraged

// Spells
3 [WL] Buried Alive
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Shallow Grave
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [A] Dark Ritual
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Entomb
3 [US] Exhume
3 [M13] Duress
2 [M12] Ponder
2 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
SB: 3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 [M13] Ground Seal
SB: 2 [NE] Massacre
SB: 2 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor

R1 UW fish
I must made mull and 2 delves kills me.
G2 Shallow grave-> Griselbrand, draw 21 and i cant kill him.Top deck RIP and lose gg.

R2 Elves
I play bayou and tropical and lose
G2 t1 kill
G3 t1 discard,t2 ground seal, t3 buried, t4 kill

R3 RIP miracles
G1 tutor to RIP
G2 Discard and decay makes the job
G3 The same

R4Elves
T1 quirion ,t2 Shaman ,t3 i kill with Borborygmos&Grizz
G2 T2 ground seal,t3 kill

R5 Patriot
G1 discard fow, and play around daze for win easy
G2 he plays meddling mage and containet priest, but i top deck massacre, and Borborygmos&Grizz made the job another time

Top8 Ur delver
G1 i must made mull
G2 i lose alone...

----------

I cut 2 gitaxian , for 2 ponder and 1 necrotic for another duress


R1 Maverick
I kill easy t3
G2 he plays thalia and STF, but massacre clean the table, and necrotic kills him

R2 Patriot
Fast kill in t2
G2 Decays destroy pitting neddle and duress let me go to win

R3 UW fish
We draw in wars discard vs counters and 1-1

-----------------
I love the main deck, but i dont like 3-4 cards in my sideboard

R1 Bye

R2 RIP miracles
t1 kill .Lotus+lotus+cabal to fow , ritual entomb,shallow to grizzz and win with Borborygmos
G2 duress+duress+cabal , entomb and necrotic kills this time

R3 Merfolks
T4 kills, i discard fow, and play around daze and wasteland . Borborygmos&Grizz kills
G2 He fails with pitting, name grizz and kill with necrotic

R4 maverick
G1 i made mull to 5, t1 shaman and i cant win...
G2 mother , canonist, qasali, thalia and t5 gaddok . To hard xDDD

Top2 finally this time :D


I hope you likes my new list Sorry for my englishhhhh !

[pandaman]

Proud to announce that I have traded the deck back after my loss at BoM. So I'm back oozing some serious style and class! My first outing at Legacy Tuesdays started well. I had a T2 win against Berserk Stompy in the first round, them used a T2 LDV to set up a T3 Griadlbrand that drew me into the combo, stripped some Berserks from hand, them came back to defend my measly two life with Exhume.

R2 against Eureka was another T2 win, and G2 would have been had it not met a pesky FoW. G3 he Eureka'd and I ended up with Griz against one of his own and an Emrakul. He had tapped out, so we both drew 14 cards and I proceeded to play discard through three FoWs and Misdirection to take his Surgical Extraction, Extract his Eurekas, and win.

G3 karma caught me and I mulled into oblivion, and G4 I ran into a Lands player with Glacial Chasm, although I came close to killing him in G3 on turns, but failed to draw any Dark Rituals in 21 cards to get my mana up.

All in all, a fun night. So good to have the deck back. People still don't know what's going on!

My list was pretty standard:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained More
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Shallow Grave
2 Exhume
1 Reanimate

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughseize
2 Gitaxian Probe

Sideboard

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ground Seal
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy

[pandaman]

Reveling in having the deck back together, I rock up to an another unsuspecting weekly local Legacy to Ooze some serious Style and Class! I went 3-1, (3-0-1 but scooping my friend to 4-0 and $40 store credit).

Maindeck

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Shallow Grave
2 Exhume
1 Reanimate

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

4 Abrupt Decah
4 Ground Seal
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy

Round 1 v UR StifleNought. Win 1-0.

We were both running late to the TO kindly paired us so we didn't keep others waiting and could still play without getting a match loss. G1 I am on the play and use a T2 Lim Dul's Vault to find a Turn 3 hasty Griselbrand into the combol. We don't finish G2.

Round 2 v Omnitell. Win 2-0.

G1 I am on the play and after checking the coast is clear with Gitaxian Probe (seeing only Cunning wish that could access some bounce) I reanimate a Griselbrand and the next turn Shallow Grave an Ooze. I Entomb Devourer and pump Ooze for lethal and he scoops. He was only bluffing with the Cunning Wish. G2 he leads with Island, go. I open a hand of Petal, Petal, Ritual, Entomb, Gitaxian Probe, Cabal Therapy, Polluted Delta. I fetch an Underground Sea with the Delta and Probe him, seeing two Preordain, Show and Tell, Omniscience, and Spell Pierce, and draw a Ponder. I immediately run Therapy into Spell Pierce and then decide to play my Ponder off a Lotus Petal. It finds an Exhume, so I play down my second Petal and Ritual into an Entomb for a Griselbrand and Exhume it. I draw 7 and find a Thoughtseize, a THIRD petal, and a Surgical Extraction (!!!) so it's off to the races with a Thoughtseize off the Petal taking his Show and Tell and then a Surgical Extraction on it. He rage quits.

Round 3 v UG Infect. Win 2-1.

G1 I am on the play and have to deal with a lot of counterspells. He drops a Glistener Elf on T1 and starts pinging me with poison, while on T2 I sneak a hardcast Ooze through his Daze/Spell Pierce hand. I go on beatdown, confident that I can win the damage race with Entomb in hand and with him playing off the top of his deck. Provided I hit land. Which I eventually do, to bin Devourer and pump Ooze for lethal.

In: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Cabal Therapy, 2 Surgical Extraction. Out: 1 Griselbrand, 1 Necrotic Ooze, 1 Buried Alive, 1 Exhume, 1 Dark Ritual, 1 Gitaxian Probe

G2 I end up getting hit T2 by an Invigorated Glistener Elf for 5 poison. He Dazed my first turn Cabal Therapy, which makes me think that he has another Invigorate (I named it in G1) so I cast a Putrid Imp and flash back Therapy, missing but seeing no other pump spells. I have him dead next turn, only for him to rip an Invigorate off the top of his deck for the win. Game 2 he opens with a double FoW hand which I see off my Gitaxian Probe. I proceed to take them with Therapy, leaving him with a Glistener Elf and three land. I'm happy to bet that he hasn't ripped a counter off the top so I ram an Entomb for Griselbrand on my T2 and Shallow Grave it on T3, which resolves and wins me the game.

Round 4 v BUG Nic-Fit. Draw 1-1-1 (I scoop him to 4-0)

G1 I mull to a hand of Petal, Petal, Entomb, Shallow Grave on the play. I play a Lotus Petal and pass. He casts a Cabal Therapy naming Exhume, and I play out my second Petal on T2. On his T2 he casts Veteran Explorer and for some unknown reason sacrifices it to Cabal Therapy me again. I happily take the two untapped basic lands and Entomb and Shallow Grave my Griselbrand before the Therapy resolves! I draw 14 cards before Griselbrand gets exiled and that's enough to get me the win the next turn.

In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 3 Ground Seal. Out: 1 Griselbrand, 1 Necrotic Ooze, 1 Buried Alive, 1 Exhume, 2 Gitaxian Probe

G2 I am on the draw, and he leads with T1 Thoughtseize T2 Nihil Spellbomb T4 Scavenging Ooze. Good start. I boarded in 3 Ground Seal and 3 Abrupt Decay and I'm trying to find the combo. He lands a Jace T5 and starts brainstorming into a shit-ton of counterspells and discard. I'm fighting it with sandbagged Brainstorms, and eventually get to the stage where if he doesn't fateseal me (he hasn't yet) I can hardcast Griselbrand that I've hidden on the top of my library. He fateseals me. I die.

G2 I am on the play, but can't find the combo through his discard. We go to turns and on his last turn he finds a Thoughtseize and FoW with the Jace he's again landed, and takes my only chance of winning on the last turn. I give him the win because he would have locked me out more likely than not.

This really is a fun deck. I wish that the combo was a little more compact so you could transform like Tin Fins does (Doomsday seems sick) but you can still play a diverse and unpredictable game with the multiple ways you have to win. You just have to play to your outs and trust your deck to perform. I did today and I was rewarded. My plays were definitely tighter than last week, and that reflects in the 3-1 as opposed to 2-2 result.

Who else out there is still Oozing?

[Rxfisl]

Reveling in having the deck back together, I rock up to an another unsuspecting weekly local Legacy to Ooze some serious Style and Class! I went 3-1, (3-0-1 but scooping my friend to 4-0 and $40 store credit).

...

Who else out there is still Oozing?

Hey mate,

glad you have the deck back together! Thanks for the report.
I am still oozing it up sometimes. It's just that the people I tend to play with do not play very interactive decks. So most matches when I'm on some sort of combo deck feel a bit like playing solitaire. So I tend to play more combat oriented decks like delver.
Love reading about how you guys are doing though and love the deck. I think Ill pack it for tomorrows game night.

So what do you guys think about adding Borborygmos Enraged? Am I seeing this correctly that he is some sort of not so fail-safe (draw stuff with gris and discard all them lands) alternative combo to dev/trisk?

Greetz!

[pandaman]

Hey mate.

Creature combat is good, but Ooze does it better than any other!

Re. Borborygmos Enraged, I've done a bit of an analysis

Pros

7/6 trampler
mills you
can deal damage with spare land cards
if in the graveyard, allows Ooze to do damage with spare land cards
viable alternative combo to Devourer/Triskelion

Cons

doesn't draw cards (I think I'd probably want Griselbrand most of the time as an Entomb target)
doesn't have lifelink (again, I think I'd probably want Griselbrand most of the time as an Entomb target)
doesn't seem to deliver an un-interruptible combo (discounting Split Second cards) like Devourer/Triskelion does. With Devourer/Trike, if they try to StP/Bolt/otherwise remove Ooze you just combo out and win with that spell on the stack. With Borborygmos it seems like you'd have to already have enough land in your hand to combo out. You always have enough cards in the library to win with Devourer/Trike but I can see there would be situations where you may not have enough lands to win with Borborygmos.

Honestly, I have my doubts as to whether it's needed. Space in the deck is already tight enough without having to jam another creature in.

How have people been finding it in testing? My analysis above is academic and I admit I have no play experience with it. Would love to hear opinions from those who've been in the trenches with the card.

[pandaman]

Also looking for opinions on my disruption suite:

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize

I'm wondering whether Probe is worth it at all and whether the disruption ought to be:

4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

with a sideboard disruption suite of:

1 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress

[Raystar]

Also looking for opinions on my disruption suite:

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize

I'm wondering whether Probe is worth it at all and whether the disruption ought to be:

4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

with a sideboard disruption suite of:

1 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress

Hey Panda!! good to see you back on the scene :)

I haven't played much since I moved to London, work is killing me :)

I was looking at the WGD threads and wondering if we should move towards a more "control oriented" build for oozing...In any case I believe that maximising the thoughtseizes can be a problem in terms of life loss to start the Griselbrand chains, probably 3 is the biggest number you can aim for.

I'll try to mimic what is being done with the Grixis lists for WGD and see what comes out of it.

[pandaman]

Hey Panda!! good to see you back on the scene :)

I haven't played much since I moved to London, work is killing me :)

I was looking at the WGD threads and wondering if we should move towards a more "control oriented" build for oozing...In any case I believe that maximising the thoughtseizes can be a problem in terms of life loss to start the Griselbrand chains, probably 3 is the biggest number you can aim for.

I'll try to mimic what is being done with the Grixis lists for WGD and see what comes out of it.
Hey Raystar! I know what you mean about work. I hadn't played Legacy for months because of it, but I am making a real effort to get there every week now.

Thoughtseize life loss is an issue so I like to keep the numbers down, but it really is great disruption and an enabler with Ooze or Griselbrand in hand. I think I'll always have four between main and side.

I admit I haven't read the Dragon threads. I'll do some research and see what we can bring back here.

[Raystar]

Hey Raystar! I know what you mean about work. I hadn't played Legacy for months because of it, but I am making a real effort to get there every week now.

Thoughtseize life loss is an issue so I like to keep the numbers down, but it really is great disruption and an enabler with Ooze or Griselbrand in hand. I think I'll always have four between main and side.

I admit I haven't read the Dragon threads. I'll do some research and see what we can bring back here.

Spent some time putting together something with a bit of sense and gave up :)

The only real change that I think the deck needs is using Dig Through Time...I think 2 of them have to be in the deck somewhere :)

[pandaman]

I've thought a lot about it. However, the double U scares me. I can cast Lim-Dul's Vault off basic lands (UB) but to go with Dig I need to expose myself to the possibility of getting Wastelanded. But I know that Dig is really good. It puts you one card ahead while LDV puts you a card behind. Of course, with LDV you have Brainstorm, Probe, and looping tricks (which I use regularly to sculpt winning hands) but the pure CA from Dig seems inticeing.

[pandaman]

Separate discussion linking to the inclusion of Dig, is 15 Land 4 Ritual 4 Petal 1 Chrome Mox the optimal land base? Or can we cut to 14 land?

[Raystar]

Separate discussion linking to the inclusion of Dig, is 15 Land 4 Ritual 4 Petal 1 Chrome Mox the optimal land base? Or can we cut to 14 land?

I have always played 15...the problem with 14 is not only not seeing mana in the first 7 is that youi may be forced to play into a wasteland....that already happens with 15 :(

The only way to reduce lands would be to add more mana acceleration, I don't know...another chrome mox maybe?

[pandaman]

I have played 14 land but filling the 15th land slot with a Mox Diamond. I made Top 8 with it. But it seemed average.

Tin Fins runs 14 land but they have four Gitaxian Probe so they can get away with it.

[Raystar]

I have played 14 land but filling the 15th land slot with a Mox Diamond. I made Top 8 with it. But it seemed average.

Tin Fins runs 14 land but they have four Gitaxian Probe so they can get away with it.

Yes, Tin Fins gets away with less lands also because they don't have the "I cast Ooze from my hand" plan to consider...

[Rxfisl]

Yo guys!

Played some oozes the other night, matches for fun only though. Went really great against BWG (rock type) with heavy discard. I was even able to win through 2 surgicals without using ground seal (he actually removed my creatures). I just ran over any DRS with pure speed. Also stomping through T1 discard.
Also played vs. omnitell, which is totally ok as well. UNLESS they drop LLoS on you.... those matches went horribly for me. Slug through counters with 2-3 dead cards in your hand (boarded in all discard) and they are not exactly very slow either. Which brought me to think about reintroducing enchantment hate rather than overboarding on discard or maybe even cut some of the ground seals. Just a healthy 1-2 to give me a chance to come back in those games or when the GY is blocked. I might even consider something more universal like bounce spells to also get rid of artifacts maybe. I might be biased by recent experiences though. ;)

15 lands felt perfect. Never had any issues whatsoever. There were marginal decisions when it came to wastelands, getting basics left my blue cards dead sometimes. Nothing too bad though. My opponent played sinkhole as well as smallpox. Coupled with discard they didnt pose too much of a threat.
I know, I know - non-blue opponents...I have to admit that the classic delver variants with counters/wastelands/stifles might be a bit more of a problem in that regard.

Totally loved LDV (even though I never actually played it) but it feels like a fail safe card selection tool. I don't think DTT would've worked that well in the matches I played. Double blue (ugh..) and I never filled up my gy that quickly either. The games when you draw with GBrand you don't need DTT either. From my recent experience I would say it's too slow to be good in this deck. Would love it to be otherwise, really like that card, so convince me please! :D.

Happy oozing everybody. Have a great sunday (or hope you had one :P)!

Rx

[pandaman]

If I play against Sneaky Show or OmniTell I always board Reverent Silence if I have it in the board. Cast it for free (we don't care about their life) and get all your discard to be live again. I got blown out once by it too. Never again. No OmniTell or Sneaky Show players here unless there are big events, so that's when the Reverent Silence goes in.

[Raystar]

If I play against Sneaky Show or OmniTell I always board Reverent Silence if I have it in the board. Cast it for free (we don't care about their life) and get all your discard to be live again. I got blown out once by it too. Never again. No OmniTell or Sneaky Show players here unless there are big events, so that's when the Reverent Silence goes in.

Yes, what Panda said. Reverent Silence is also very relevant against Miracles where you have a chance of 2-to-1 them if the become overconfident and drop both RiP and CounterBalance.

[pandaman]

Yes, Reverent Silence is also excellent against Miracles. It plus Abrupt Decay can really push the matchup into winnable territory if you can get a hold of the before Counterbalance comes online and shuts off your cantrips.

[pandaman]

No Oozing tomorrow, I am letting my friend play DeathBlade (using Oozing's USeas and Deltas). So I'll play Miracles without Forces instead (which has become much better since Treasure Cruise was banned). But look out for more Oozing soon!

[Raystar]

Reading through the WGD threads I noticed one thing that we never considered: Dimir Charm. I think we should give it a good look for the main (sideboarded if needed) because it solves Shaman G1 and can be used as additional digging/binning. What do you think?

[pandaman]

Very interesting idea. But do you find DRS bothers you that much? If it's just on its own I usually don't have trouble playing around it. I think if the meta was all DRS and SnT, it would be fantastic because of the counter sorcery mode.

[Raystar]

Very interesting idea. But do you find DRS bothers you that much? If it's just on its own I usually don't have trouble playing around it. I think if the meta was all DRS and SnT, it would be fantastic because of the counter sorcery mode.

Shaman by itself is not enough to bother us but in combination with permission and discard may be a pain :) That leads me to another thought: what about Cavern of Souls in the main to make sure that when we play against permission we land Ooze without interaction? It would especially good against BUG that has a very hard time coping with a resolved Ooze.

[pandaman]

Another good idea. But BUG only has FoW to hard counter Ooze. You can ignore Spell Pierce totally and play around Daze easily. So again, I don't know whether the problem it solves is an actual problem. Also, you would expose yourself even more to Wasteland, which I am loathe to do.

[Pin_Vlc]

Hi guys !


Hey mate,

So what do you guys think about adding Borborygmos Enraged? Am I seeing this correctly that he is some sort of not so fail-safe (draw stuff with gris and discard all them lands) alternative combo to dev/trisk?

Greetz!

Borborygmos Enraged is a HOUSE ! Is a great plan B for win.If you shallow grave --> Griselbrand, draw 14 and dont take a lot of rituals/petals , with only :b::b::b: you can entomb Borborygmos ,exhume it and make 13 damages with 5 lands.It is very solid .


Separate discussion linking to the inclusion of Dig, is 15 Land 4 Ritual 4 Petal 1 Chrome Mox the optimal land base? Or can we cut to 14 land?

If you play Borborygmos , you need more lands.I playing now 16. 15 + tropical island for green sideboard.


Reading through the WGD threads I noticed one thing that we never considered: Dimir Charm. I think we should give it a good look for the main (sideboarded if needed) because it solves Shaman G1 and can be used as additional digging/binning. What do you think?

I like a lot this tech : Dimir Charm .Maybe i will test 2 in main deck.Can kill shaman in G1 and counter some stuff.



Also looking for opinions on my disruption suite:

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize

I'm wondering whether Probe is worth it at all and whether the disruption ought to be:

4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

with a sideboard disruption suite of:

1 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress

I dont like Gitaxian.A lot of games, i play gitaxian probe, and i look oponnet's hand and : spell pierce, daze and fow. I prefer play duress ,look the danger , and discard something.

My list :

// Lands
2 [LRW] Swamp (2)
1 [8E] Island (3)
2 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [A] Tropical Island
2 [A] Bayou
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
1 [AL] Phyrexian Devourer
1 [M11] Triskelion
1 [SOM] Necrotic Ooze
1 [TO] Putrid Imp
1 [GTC] Borborygmos Enraged
2 [AVR] Griselbrand

// Spells
4 [OD] Entomb
3 [WL] Buried Alive
4 [MI] Shallow Grave
3 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [A] Dark Ritual
3 [M13] Duress
2 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [M12] Ponder
2 [GTC] Dimir Charm

[pandaman]

Duress is better to be Cabal Therapy, in my opinion. Sure you hit all the time with Duress but you can't get your own Griselbrand/Ooze out of your hand and you can't Entomb it to enable you yo sac Griselbrand and reanimate it again. I think Therapy's utility makes it better than Duress in this particular deck.

[pandaman]

Snip.

[Namida]

Borborygmos Enraged is a HOUSE ! Is a great plan B for win.If you shallow grave --> Griselbrand, draw 14 and dont take a lot of rituals/petals , with only :b::b::b: you can entomb Borborygmos ,exhume it and make 13 damages with 5 lands.It is very solid .

I disagree. Borborygmos is not good because you will never be able to cast it, unlike every other card in this deck (at least you can use Rituals to cast Griselbrand). The plan you've laid out as a plan B is also pretty strange--basically, you're saying that you've Shallow Graved Griselbrand, drawn 14 cards yet somehow don't have a lot of fast mana and despite all of this you can still make three mana to reanimate a Borborygmos. In the same situation you laid out, Children of Korlis would allow you to draw another 14 cards and assemble the Ooze combo (if you draw half of your deck and can't put Trike and Devourer in your graveyard with an Ooze in play then you're just very unlucky). I'd rather be playing Children of Korlis though because at least that card is castable and does something outside of being a combo piece. The upsides I see for Borborygmos would be that Borborygmos beats a Pithing Needle on Ooze, and a Borborygmos in your graveyard makes Ooze able to gun down creatures, but I don't know if those are worth having this card in your deck.

[pandaman]

Namida, Children of Korlis is something I've considered, but I find that if I draw 14 or 21 off Griselbrand and I can't win with the Ooze combo immediately (you can do this in a multitude of ways if you're creative) I can do one of two things: (1) bin stuff in my Cleanup Step and go off in their upkeep with Entomb/Shallow Grave; or (2) use discard (naturally drawn Thoughtseize/Therapy or Entombed Therapy) to strip their hand and sac your Griselbrand ( and sometime s bring him back again!) so they have to rip hate off the top to kill you before you win the next turn. So it does beg the question: do we need another card like Borby in the deck? I am inclined to think no, at this stage. I agree with you.

[pandaman]

Also, the problem with drawing more cards is that you might end up with a situation where there aren't enough CMCs in the deck go kill them! Although you can usually get 12 CMC by using Brainstorm to put a spare Griselbrand and Ooze on the top.

[Namida]

I hadn't considered the CMC issue, which could definitely be an issue. What I was saying about Children of Korlis is more that if the deck actually needs some card to extend the combo, I'd rather have one that isn't purely a combo piece/dead draw. Basically...anyone who considers Borborygmos should probably consider more versatile cards first. I just ordered all the cards for the deck and I'm going to start trying it out soon, but the deck doesn't look like it needs either card, if you ask me.

[pandaman]

No, I agree. I don't think it needs either. In fact, I'm much more interested in Dig Through Time and Dimir Charm.

[Raystar]

Ready for next Tuesday :)

I'm going to test with no probes and additional thoughtseize and ponder.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39999027/IMAG0071.jpg

[pandaman]

FBB or Beta duals? Looks sick!

[Raystar]

FBB or Beta duals? Looks sick!

FBB :) the Seas are also double signed by Garfield and Alexander...both did in front of me :)

[Raystar]

FBB :) the Seas are also double signed by Garfield and Alexander...both did in front of me :)

Well the Deltas too :D

[pandaman]

So pimp! Everyone with pimp Ooze decks must post!

[Namida]

Well, when my cards arrive, I'm an FBB Triskelion away from having the entire deck as Japanese as possible, but I haven't played the deck once yet.

[pandaman]

Oh man, that will be fucking sweet.

[Raystar]

Well, when my cards arrive, I'm an FBB Triskelion away from having the entire deck as Japanese as possible, but I haven't played the deck once yet.

Too easy! You live in Japan :)

[Dice_Box]

Oh man, that will be fucking sweet.

I have an Antiquities Trike if you want it for this deck. Just ask me on Tuesday. I want to see you play this too even though you would hose me with it. Looks like a barrel of fun.

[death]

Sweet decks you got here.

I need help finding a pair of Japanese foil Duskmantle, House of Shadow :)

[Xanthos]

Hey guys, just put the deck together on Magic Online. I have experience with reanimator and sneak and show but this seems to be an entirely different animal. Just wondering if any of you played online and could give me some advice. Sideboarding especially. Thanks, I'll keep practicing.

[Pin_Vlc]

I disagree. Borborygmos is not good because you will never be able to cast it, unlike every other card in this deck (at least you can use Rituals to cast Griselbrand). The plan you've laid out as a plan B is also pretty strange--basically, you're saying that you've Shallow Graved Griselbrand, drawn 14 cards yet somehow don't have a lot of fast mana and despite all of this you can still make three mana to reanimate a Borborygmos. In the same situation you laid out, Children of Korlis would allow you to draw another 14 cards and assemble the Ooze combo (if you draw half of your deck and can't put Trike and Devourer in your graveyard with an Ooze in play then you're just very unlucky). I'd rather be playing Children of Korlis though because at least that card is castable and does something outside of being a combo piece. The upsides I see for Borborygmos would be that Borborygmos beats a Pithing Needle on Ooze, and a Borborygmos in your graveyard makes Ooze able to gun down creatures, but I don't know if those are worth having this card in your deck.

Cast Borborygmos ? really ?

Children of Korlis? 4 color deck ? with Borborygmos you can play UB or UBg. Borborygmos beats a Pithing Needle on Ooze,and its a solid plan B.I won a lot of games with : G1 ooze combo,G2 Pithing Needle on Ooze and easy win with Borborygmos&Grizz.

I hope you can test it.

And why you play 3 necrotic ooze in main deck ? I prefer play only 1, 1 Borborygmos and maybe more discard or 1 tendrils.

[pandaman]

You play multiple Necrotic Ooze maindeck for a number of reasons:

Firstly, it can't be countered by Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, or Swan Song, so you can get it on the battlefield from your hand playing around (usually) only Daze and Force of Will. If you can get an Ooze onto the battlefield with Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer in the graveyard, you have won. If you have an Ooze on the battlefield, resolving a Buried Alive will win you the game also. Entomb can also win you the game in certain situations (see below).

Secondly, it increases the chances of you using the combo avenue where you swing with an Ooze and if unblocked Entomb Devourer to pump the Ooze for lethal damage. The more Oozes in your deck the more change you'll have one and an Entomb in the appropriate situation. If the opponent has no removal and no blockers, this requires only resolving the Ooze from your hand (see above as to why it's sometimes easier than reanimating it) and then resolving a single Entomb. Doing it this way leaves you with only Force and Swan Song as hard counters to play around, and makes playing around soft permission much easier. It is also totally immune from any graveyard hate except Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace (and you're not casting Entomb into either of those anyway) because in response to the removal you just activate over the top of that to create a lethally big Ooze before the hate resolves. I win a LOT of games with this.

Thirdly, if you bin an Ooze and it gets removed (for example, by Deathrite Shaman or Tormod's Crypt) you are not completely dead in the water because you have another one or more in your deck.

Fourthly, if a Griselbrand is in the yard and you are able to draw and cast an Ooze, you can draw some cards with Griselbrand's ability.

Fifthly, Ooze is great against BUG decks. Once you resolve an Ooze BUG can't kill it unless they block it (and let's face it, you're not swinging with it unless you're killing them or, if you don't have the combo, it's not going to get blocked), you chump block with it, or they find a Liliana of the Veil. So you can just run it out there when you know it's not going to get countered, and then manipulate the game state to a situation where you can swing and use Entomb around their counterspells and simply win. It's worth remembering that people don't usually block Ooze, even if they know the Entomb > Devourer trick, because they're usually on enough life that they can take the four damage and not worry.

I only ever go down to two Ooze maindeck after boarding, unless I'm playing against combo, when I'll consider going to one.

I hope this helps you with understanding the multiple Ooze strategy.

EDIT: I'll give you an example of a game where having more than one Ooze, and hardcasting Ooze, won me the game. I was playing against BUG Delver. I had two Necrotic Oozes FoWd, but resolved the third past his multiple Spell Pierces and Dazes revealed by my discard taking his THIRD FoW (ignoring the Pierces and having enough mana to pay for the Dazes). I had triple Entomb in hand. My opponent had a plethora of taxing counterspells, two Deathrite Shamans, and a Tormod's Crypt. Next turn, I attacked with my Ooze and it wasn't blocked. I Entombed, and he Spell Pierced it. I let that resolve, and Entombed again. He Dazed it, and I let that resolve too. I then Entombed for a third time, and paid for both his Daze and Spell Pierce with my spare mana. I then activated Ooze's Devourer ability, and in response he attempted to exile it with both his DRSs and his Crypt. However, as you know from reading the above, I could simply pump to a lethal size in response to all that.

[Namida]

Cast Borborygmos ? really ?

Children of Korlis? 4 color deck ? with Borborygmos you can play UB or UBg. Borborygmos beats a Pithing Needle on Ooze,and its a solid plan B.I won a lot of games with : G1 ooze combo,G2 Pithing Needle on Ooze and easy win with Borborygmos&Grizz.

I hope you can test it.

And why you play 3 necrotic ooze in main deck ? I prefer play only 1, 1 Borborygmos and maybe more discard or 1 tendrils.

My point is that this deck will never be able to cast Borborygmos, and I don't think a backup plan is worth having a literally uncastable card in your deck. Hell, if Borborygmos actually could kill on its own consistently, I might be okay with it...but as it stands right now, the card's ability is literally only good if you've managed to draw a bunch of cards off of Griselbrand, missed on the Ooze kill, yet somehow can come up with the resources to get the ability active--and I feel like that will happen less than the number of times that this card just taunts me in my hand. The Children of Korlis example was not to say that I *want* Children in my deck, but to display the kind of card I would be willing to devote space to--Children of Korlis is castable. It turns off Tendrils of Agony against Storm decks, and you can use it to buy time as a chump blocker or with it's ability to gain back life you've lost. Even if there isn't a single white land in the deck, you can cast Children of Korlis off of artifact mana; not only that, but costing one mana actually makes it a more plausible backup plan instead of forcing you to always have three mana to animate it like a Borborygmos would. The sort of versatile card that is Children of Korlis is what I would rather play over Borborygmos, and I don't even think I want Children of Korlis in this deck.

Pandaman has gone over why to play multiple Oozes in the deck. The only reason I'm even interested in this strategy is because of the ability to actually cast an Ooze instead of having to rely 100% on your reanimation cards to win the game. On its own, Ooze does more than cards like Borborygmos and Tendrils could ever do without having to invest extra cards. Basically, what I'm saying is that I care more about having the ability to consistently use my cards as they come to me, and I feel I will win more games from having the ability to cast my cards than I will lose games to not having powerful yet narrow cards that only work in certain situations.

[Raystar]

You play multiple Necrotic Ooze maindeck for a number of reasons:

Firstly, it can't be countered by Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, or Swan Song, so you can get it on the battlefield from your hand playing around (usually) only Daze and Force of Will. If you can get an Ooze onto the battlefield with Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer in the graveyard, you have won. If you have an Ooze on the battlefield, resolving a Buried Alive will win you the game also. Entomb can also win you the game in certain situations (see below).

Secondly, it increases the chances of you using the combo avenue where you swing with an Ooze and if unblocked Entomb Devourer to pump the Ooze for lethal damage. The more Oozes in your deck the more change you'll have one and an Entomb in the appropriate situation. If the opponent has no removal and no blockers, this requires only resolving the Ooze from your hand (see above as to why it's sometimes easier than reanimating it) and then resolving a single Entomb. Doing it this way leaves you with only Force and Swan Song as hard counters to play around, and makes playing around soft permission much easier. It is also totally immune from any graveyard hate except Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace (and you're not casting Entomb into either of those anyway) because in response to the removal you just activate over the top of that to create a lethally big Ooze before the hate resolves. I win a LOT of games with this.

Thirdly, if you bin an Ooze and it gets removed (for example, by Deathrite Shaman or Tormod's Crypt) you are not completely dead in the water because you have another one or more in your deck.

Fourthly, if a Griselbrand is in the yard and you are able to draw and cast an Ooze, you can draw some cards with Griselbrand's ability.

Fifthly, Ooze is great against BUG decks. Once you resolve an Ooze BUG can't kill it unless they block it (and let's face it, you're not swinging with it unless you're killing them or, if you don't have the combo, it's not going to get blocked), you chump block with it, or they find a Liliana of the Veil. So you can just run it out there when you know it's not going to get countered, and then manipulate the game state to a situation where you can swing and use Entomb around their counterspells and simply win. It's worth remembering that people don't usually block Ooze, even if they know the Entomb > Devourer trick, because they're usually on enough life that they can take the four damage and not worry.

I only ever go down to two Ooze maindeck after boarding, unless I'm playing against combo, when I'll consider going to one.

I hope this helps you with understanding the multiple Ooze strategy.

EDIT: I'll give you an example of a game where having more than one Ooze, and hardcasting Ooze, won me the game. I was playing against BUG Delver. I had two Necrotic Oozes FoWd, but resolved the third past his multiple Spell Pierces and Dazes revealed by my discard taking his THIRD FoW (ignoring the Pierces and having enough mana to pay for the Dazes). I had triple Entomb in hand. My opponent had a plethora of taxing counterspells, two Deathrite Shamans, and a Tormod's Crypt. Next turn, I attacked with my Ooze and it wasn't blocked. I Entombed, and he Spell Pierced it. I let that resolve, and Entombed again. He Dazed it, and I let that resolve too. I then Entombed for a third time, and paid for both his Daze and Spell Pierce with my spare mana. I then activated Ooze's Devourer ability, and in response he attempted to exile it with both his DRSs and his Crypt. However, as you know from reading the above, I could simply pump to a lethal size in response to all that.

Totally spot on.

To give you an idea (and Panda doesn't like that :) ), I also play a 4th Ooze in the sideboard and use it against anything that may play instant speed GY hate. As Panda says, against BUG delver and Shardless BUG casting a Ooze is a great play...they just can't cope with it easily.

[pandaman]

I like the fourth Ooze in the board, Raystar! [emoji14]

[Raystar]

My point is that this deck will never be able to cast Borborygmos, and I don't think a backup plan is worth having a literally uncastable card in your deck. Hell, if Borborygmos actually could kill on its own consistently, I might be okay with it...but as it stands right now, the card's ability is literally only good if you've managed to draw a bunch of cards off of Griselbrand, missed on the Ooze kill, yet somehow can come up with the resources to get the ability active--and I feel like that will happen less than the number of times that this card just taunts me in my hand. The Children of Korlis example was not to say that I *want* Children in my deck, but to display the kind of card I would be willing to devote space to--Children of Korlis is castable. It turns off Tendrils of Agony against Storm decks, and you can use it to buy time as a chump blocker or with it's ability to gain back life you've lost. Even if there isn't a single white land in the deck, you can cast Children of Korlis off of artifact mana; not only that, but costing one mana actually makes it a more plausible backup plan instead of forcing you to always have three mana to animate it like a Borborygmos would. The sort of versatile card that is Children of Korlis is what I would rather play over Borborygmos, and I don't even think I want Children of Korlis in this deck.

Pandaman has gone over why to play multiple Oozes in the deck. The only reason I'm even interested in this strategy is because of the ability to actually cast an Ooze instead of having to rely 100% on your reanimation cards to win the game. On its own, Ooze does more than cards like Borborygmos and Tendrils could ever do without having to invest extra cards. Basically, what I'm saying is that I care more about having the ability to consistently use my cards as they come to me, and I feel I will win more games from having the ability to cast my cards than I will lose games to not having powerful yet narrow cards that only work in certain situations.

Also very true. If I had to add a fattie to be reanimated I would go for something that hoses other strategies, something like Iona, Avacyn or Elesh Norn...and even in those cases it would not fit with the overall plan of the deck.

The way you play the deck is to adapt to the situation, you are not "all-in" on the GY like a normal reanimator. You have several lines of play, by using another big reanimated creature you limit that flexibility and just become a permission-less reanimator...

[Raystar]

I like the fourth Ooze in the board, Raystar! [emoji14]

Hehe :)

Btw deck and sideboard for tonight:

MD

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Putrid Imp
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

4 Entomb
3 Buried Alive
4 Shallow Grave
2 Exhume
1 Reanimate

3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacomb
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
1 Island

Sideboard

4 Ground Seal
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Exhume
1 Massacre


I'm trying a MD without probes with 1 ponder and 1 thoughtseize in their place. The place I go to play to has always a significant share of BUG based decks and some miracles hence the SB.

[pandaman]

I'm going to ditch Probes, too. And I like that board against Miracles. You will end up with a really good chance to win through RiP and CB. Let us have a report?

[Raystar]

I'm going to ditch Probes, too. And I like that board against Miracles. You will end up with a really good chance to win through RiP and CB. Let us have a report?

Yep, I promise :)

[pandaman]

Hey guys, just put the deck together on Magic Online. I have experience with reanimator and sneak and show but this seems to be an entirely different animal. Just wondering if any of you played online and could give me some advice. Sideboarding especially. Thanks, I'll keep practicing.
I don't play online, but I can't imagine the strategy would be too much different from what we all discuss here. I know Koby had it built only at some stage and was 3-1ing some events. I understand there is a fair bit of Miracles online? If so, your board should have 2 Reverent Silence and 3 Abrupt Decay at least. That gives you good game against Rest in Peace and Counterbalance. EoT Decay on CB, then main phase discard followed by Reverent Silence to kill RiP then combo is what you need to look to set up. They have to have a good hand to stop that. But for you to get such a hand set up involves not getting your cantrips countered, so be mindful of that. That's about all the pointers I can give I think, the rest is all documented in the thread in various places. Good luck and post some tournament reports!

[Raystar]

Yep, I promise :)

Maintaining my promise :)

Small tournament: 14 people for 4 rounds of Swiss. I played the list I posted above. It hasn't been a good night, I finished 2-2 loosing my first 2 games by sheer bad luck...to the report

Round 1: BUG Food Chain

G1: mulligan to 6 with a sketchy hand. I go with a Thoughtseize and he responds with his singleton misdirection...down to 3 cards and he rips all he needs to combo in turn 3...
G2: mulligan to 5 to a reasonable hand. I start with duress and he has (of course) 2 food chains in hand...I have a slow hand and I'm stuck on 2 mana...he gets everything he needs to combo out....very bad start...

Round 2: Grixis Pyromancer

G1: mulligan to 6...again. He starts with shaman and I could go turn 2 entomb+shallow grave but he has a closed fetch and I don't know if he plays a green dual or not...I wait too long and he rips 3 (three) FoW while I'm stuck to 2 mana :(
G2: mulligan to 5...I'm starting to be a bit angry...I keep a one lander and I don't see any other mana source after playing 2 brainstorms. Not my night :)

Round 3: BG Lands (combo version with B instead of R for entombs)

G1: I combo out on turn 2 through Griselbrand drawing 21 cards...feeling better :)
G2: I could kill him with ooze beatings but I forget to pay for Tabernacle. As I said not my night :)
G3: Ooze attacks and Phyrexian Devourer gets binned...the usual visit to the Oracle rulings happens :D

Round 4: Shardless BUG

G1: mulligan to 6 I start with land go, he does land shaman. I brainstorm end of his turn and see the combo, pass and combo out on second turn...good times :)
G2: mulligan to 6 and I'm stuck to 2 mana and unable to do anything
G3: we both mulligan to 5 with him looking for GY hate. I keep 2 lands, buried alive, ooze, brainstorm. I go land pass, he does land grafdigger cage. I brainstorm end of his turn and see an entomb. Draw land, drop fetch pass. He drops land and pass, I fetch eot. Draw....dark ritual! :D Land, DR (resolves? yes!) Ooze on the ground. As I suspected he is not aware of the combat trick, in any case I rip another land and I can either combo with the ooze attacking or do buried alive afterwords...the attack is enough and, of course, it triggers another oracle rulings consultation :)

The deck is still there, powerful and particularly strong against certain T1 decks (Shardless BUG doesn't have a chance against Oozing). As every combo deck you have to be in "your day" or you get punished by variance and you need to play tight (I'm a bit rusty and I made some mistake).

[Raystar]

Soooo...after yesterday night I got this nagging feeling that I need to reduce variance in the deck. Oozing is incredible if you see even just a small number of the needed cards but it craps on you too often.

This is what I want to achieve:

- raise the number of cantrips: I want an additional ponder and a preordain to get into the deck
- I want to have a smaller combo footprint
- I want a more streamlined cards flow

To implement the above I have the following proposals that I'll test going forward:

- Get ride of the LDV
- Reduce the number of Griselbrands to 1
- Add 1 ponder and 1 preordain

This should give a more solid G1 behaviour...I'll test

The changes in the main triggered another thought in my mind: is there anything that has been changed in the landscape that would grant a change in the SB strategy? I think I have a proposal for that too....watch this!

Suggested SB:

1 Necrotic Ooze
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
3 Liliana of the Veil

Yes, another attempt to a transformational SB...what would go out is:

- 1 Griselbrand
- 4 Shallow Grave
- 2 Exhume
- 2 Entomb
- 1 Preordain
- 1 Putrid Imp
- 1 Triskelion
- 3 Buried Alive

the final list post SB would be:

4 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
3 Tasigur
3 Phyrexian Obliterator

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Entomb
1 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest


thoughts?

[Raystar]

Btw, I forgot to add:

fetch, dark ritual, Tasigur....not a bad play on a turn one...

[pandaman]

Raystar, doesn't that still leave you one short? BBB from Ritual, and -2 from delving the fetch and Ritual is only 5, unless my sleep-addled brain is missing something you'd need a Petal too?

[Raystar]

Raystar, doesn't that still leave you one short? BBB from Ritual, and -2 from delving the fetch and Ritual is only 5, unless my sleep-addled brain is missing something you'd need a Petal too?

...that's what happens when you are old like me...

Sorry for the stupidity...

[pandaman]

Hey, I'm getting on too, don't worry :)

[pandaman]

So, following on from Raystar's wish to increase consistency, I thought I'd get back to one of my original lists:

2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained More
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
4 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain

4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Ground Seal
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy

The maindeck has 4/4/1 of Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain, there are 8 of each of binning and reanimation spells. Only 4 pieces of disruption, but with the threat density of the deck and the myriad of routes available to win, I think it might be all we need preboard.

Postboard we have the usual suspects. The only unusual things are the Cabal Therapy and Gitaxian Probe. They are for the combo matchup, along with the Surgical Extraction. You take out an Ooze, Griselbrand, 2 Buried Alive, 1 Reanimate and 1 Exhume, and a Chrome Mox for them.

I Top 8'd two big (5 rounds is big for Brisbane Australia!) tournaments with almost exactly this main board, so it does work. I'm going to try it next week. Depending on whether I want to play Doomsday with Dig Through Time. Or Grixis Landstill. Dammit, choices!

[Rxfisl]

Suggested SB:

1 Necrotic Ooze
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
3 Liliana of the Veil


thoughts?

Hey!

Feels like you are going creature combat with that SB. What exactly are the matchups you seek to improve?
Even though I like the card, I can't come up with anything that Phyrexian Obliterator is particularly good against.
Nice idea to move away from the GY though. Throwing people off balance when they expect to need GY hate G2,3. :D

Greetz,
Rx

[Raystar]

So, following on from Raystar's wish to increase consistency, I thought I'd get back to one of my original lists:

2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained More
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
4 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain

4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Ground Seal
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy

The maindeck has 4/4/1 of Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain, there are 8 of each of binning and reanimation spells. Only 4 pieces of disruption, but with the threat density of the deck and the myriad of routes available to win, I think it might be all we need preboard.

Postboard we have the usual suspects. The only unusual things are the Cabal Therapy and Gitaxian Probe. They are for the combo matchup, along with the Surgical Extraction. You take out an Ooze, Griselbrand, 2 Buried Alive, 1 Reanimate and 1 Exhume, and a Chrome Mox for them.

I Top 8'd two big (5 rounds is big for Brisbane Australia!) tournaments with almost exactly this main board, so it does work. I'm going to try it next week. Depending on whether I want to play Doomsday with Dig Through Time. Or Grixis Landstill. Dammit, choices!


Hey Panda, thx for the list. A couple of comments: wouldn't it be better to go 2 Reanimate+2 Exhume? I'm also starting to believe that we don't need the second Griselbrand, especially with a list like the one you posted. Removing one of the grizzies would make space for an additional protection slot. A second slot could be made by reducing the number of Buried Alive to 3...

[Raystar]

Hey Panda, thx for the list. A couple of comments: wouldn't it be better to go 2 Reanimate+2 Exhume? I'm also starting to believe that we don't need the second Griselbrand, especially with a list like the one you posted. Removing one of the grizzies would make space for an additional protection slot. A second slot could be made by reducing the number of Buried Alive to 3...

Didn't notice before, those are 61 cards, definitely reduce the buried alives :)

[Raystar]

Hey!

Feels like you are going creature combat with that SB. What exactly are the matchups you seek to improve?
Even though I like the card, I can't come up with anything that Phyrexian Obliterator is particularly good against.
Nice idea to move away from the GY though. Throwing people off balance when they expect to need GY hate G2,3. :D

Greetz,
Rx

Not specific match-up in mind. The idea is that deck sporting StP will probably go light in removal after our 1st game shenanigans. Obliterator is "must deal" creature, it puts the opponent on a quick clock and can't be blocked easily, together with the Ooze attack combo and a quick Tasigur can definitely create issues.

The rational behind the transformational side is to create a surprise effect, it has never worked and I suppose this is not going to be good anyway...but it's a pet idea of mine that comes out every once in a while :)

[pandaman]

I can't recall anyone coming up with a transformational sideboard that has really worked. In my opinion, this isn't the deck for a transformational board because you can't take out all of the combo with 15 cards. I have 3 Ooze, 2 Griz, 1 PImp, 1 Trisk, 1 Devourer, 4 Shallow Grave, 4 Entomb, 4 Buried Alive, 2 Exhume, and 2 Reanimate (20 total) , so I'm still left with 4 cards surplus. Unless we transform into UB Pox? Lol!

Anyway, I'm rolling with this 61 card list. 61 cards is the way of the future, embrace it you naysayers! [emoji14]

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained More
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

3 Necrotic Ooze
2 Griselbrand
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive

4 Shallow Grave
2 Exhume
2 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
4Ponder
4 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Ground Seal
2 Reverent Silence
2 Massacre
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Surgical Extraction

(Optional UB Pox sideboard)

Just joking!

But one could go:

4Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Hymn to Tourach

If you took out:

-4 Shallow Grave
-4 Buried Alive
-2 Exhume
-2 Griselbrand
-1 Putrid Imp
-1 Triskelion
-1 Entomb

you get left with:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Necrotic Ooze

4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

3 Entomb
2 Reanimate
1 Phyrexian Devourer

It leaves you with a list reminiscent of the old Eva Green deck (who's old enough to remember when it put two copies in the T8 of BoM, with Hypnotic Specter to boot) and has the back up "I win" button of Ooze into Entomb > Devourer. Probably no better than the rest but fun all the same!

[Rxfisl]

61 cards hype!


On the matter of starting hands - which hands do you guys usually trust to be a winner? I know it's matchup dependant, don't expect an all-in-one answer but would like a discussion.

Ooze on!

[Raystar]

61 cards hype!


On the matter of starting hands - which hands do you guys usually trust to be a winner? I know it's matchup dependant, don't expect an all-in-one answer but would like a discussion.

Ooze on!

You definitely want to see at least an "entomb effect" + a cantrip and 2 mana producers, this would generally be a keep. Then depending on the matchup you may want to see protection or a ooze.

[pandaman]

I was actually thinking about generating 10 hands on the each on the play and draw (not staged, just random) and discuss them. Part of the primer I've always considered we all should collaborate on to get this deck into Established!

My starting hand requirements are hard to concretely state because there are so many avenues with this deck. However, like Raystar, I like hands with combo pieces and cantrips, and generally prefer two lands as mana sources. You have to think carefully about what you might be playing and strategise accordingly. Against BUG for example, people are surprised that I mull very strong hands solely because I have either a Trisk or Devourer in hand and am on the draw. It's just not worth getting hit by a Thoughtseize and losing it to a Deathrite, so I go searching for another option. Against non-DRS decks, though, you usually don't care about that. Against counter decks I'm looking for a Thougbtseize (FoW) and mans (Pierce/Daze) or enough combo spells to exhaust their counters (quite possible because we run 8 binning spells and 8 reanimation spells). Against combo I'm looking for Thoughtseize + cantrips or a quick combo.

Ergh! I could go on forever!

[Raystar]

Ergh! I could go on forever!

Eheh, that is why I kept it short on my answer...there is too much to say :)

[Rxfisl]

I was actually thinking about generating 10 hands on the each on the play and draw (not staged, just random) and discuss them.


That sounds like an amazing idea! :)

[bigbobbobber]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this thread. I sleeved up this deck and took it to my LGS, going 2-1-1. The one draw was with a High Tide player, who I swear was stalling on purpose. Anyways, this is the deck I brought:

2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

4 Lotus Petal

4 Dark Ritual
4 Shallow Grave
3 Entomb
4 Brainstorm

4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
3 Buried Alive
2 Exhume
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

2 Griselbrand
4 Necrotic Ooze
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrid Imp

Sideboard was a mess of whatever I could throw together last minute

Real quickly here: First round vs U/W/R Control, Monastery Mentor as the main win-con. Both games were quick, basically stripped him of any counter magic and then comboed off before he could do much. Next round against Maverick, had a turn one kill game one and a turn two kill the next. Round three against U/R Painter, he was faster than me in game one and in game two I had to go for it not knowing his hand, he had painter on the field and Pyroblasted my Griselbrand. Round four was the insanely slow High Tide player.

Thoughts on this deck: it was a blast! Loved playing it and getting some incredibly explosive starts. The combo is awesome by being instant speed, against the Maverick player he went to activate DRS to eat my Devourer, and I just comboed off in in response to the activation. Surgical extraction was a pain, I never had Ground Seal out in time to protect myself, but I think that if I did it would have been pretty much all that was needed.

What I would change: I think 4 maindeck oozes is too much; I'm going down to 2 main and 1 side. Taking their places are going to be a pair of Gitaxian Probes. Other than that the rest of the deck was fine. Only thing I consistently sided out was the oozes and sometimes one of the Griselbrands. I have another event tonight that I plan on playing this, and if there is any interest I can report back on it later.

[death]

I think the 4 Flooded Strand should be 4 Misty Rainforest.
Just an idea.

[bigbobbobber]

I think the 4 Flooded Strand should be 4 Misty Rainforest.
Just an idea.

I agree, just don't have any. Another option could be 2 Misties 2 Verdant Catacombs.

Played this deck tonight with my previously mentioned changes. I got thrashed by DnT, beat Omnitell handidly (reverent silence owns leylines) and beat U/W control (not Miracles). The deck felt good, i was able to combo off turn two 4 times. Other than the fetchlands, not sure if I would change anything.

[Raystar]

I agree, just don't have any. Another option could be 2 Misties 2 Verdant Catacombs.

Played this deck tonight with my previously mentioned changes. I got thrashed by DnT, beat Omnitell handidly (reverent silence owns leylines) and beat U/W control (not Miracles). The deck felt good, i was able to combo off turn two 4 times. Other than the fetchlands, not sure if I would change anything.

Good job with the deck :)

I think that splitting 2 misties and 2 Verdants is better, I would also remove the Mire and add a USea.

Regarding the number of Oozes MD, I believe that the sweet spot is 3 with a 4th in the side, they really change the matchup against anything playing Abrupt Decay...

[pandaman]

I disagree, you want as many of your fetches as possible to get B. I wouldn't play any fetches that didn't get B if I didn't need to. I agree, however, with adding a USea and going to three Ooze.

[Raystar]

I disagree, you want as many of your fetches as possible to get B. I wouldn't play any fetches that didn't get B if I didn't need to. I agree, however, with adding a USea and going to three Ooze.

Hey Panda :)

Misties actually fetch B.....or you meant basic B?

[pandaman]

Misties don't fetch basic Swamp. I have been killed so many times because I had to fetch a non-basic with a non-Swamp-fetching fetchland and needed to keep it on the board for two turns but couldn't because of Wasteland. On the other hand, I've never died because I couldn't get my basic Island off a non-Island-fetching fetchland.

[pandaman]

It is the most frustrating seeing the win sitting there if you could only get a Swamp. Literally, like a turn where any mana drawn except a non-Swamp-fetching fetchland will win the game and I f*&king draw a Misty Rainforest.

[pandaman]

Also, bigbobbo, you should test with four Entomb. It makes T1/T2 Entomb+Shallow Grave Griselbrand that important bit more consistent.

[Raystar]

Also, bigbobbo, you should test with four Entomb. It makes T1/T2 Entomb+Shallow Grave Griselbrand that important bit more consistent.

Oooops, I missed that! Yes 4 entombs are a lot better :)

[pandaman]

I agree, just don't have any. Another option could be 2 Misties 2 Verdant Catacombs.

Played this deck tonight with my previously mentioned changes. I got thrashed by DnT, beat Omnitell handidly (reverent silence owns leylines) and beat U/W control (not Miracles). The deck felt good, i was able to combo off turn two 4 times. Other than the fetchlands, not sure if I would change anything.
I've found the best manabase is:

2 Swamp
1 Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

The single Chrome Mox has proved to be excellent in getting you there off T1/T2 Shallow Grave's Griselbrands when you just need one more B to win. Four Lotus Petals is very often quite enough.

Re. the fetchland configuration, see previous posts. You want all your fetches to get basic Swamps. You're much, much more heavily into B than U.

[bigbobbobber]

Played another 2 weeklies with Ooze, did alright, 5-2 in all. Only changes I made was to add a Chrome Mox and another Entomb. The fetches I didn't change at all just due to availability. Both the Chrome Mox and 4th Entomb were awesome, definitely will keep them. One thing I noticed is that I often had dead discard cards in my hand. With only 3 Thoughtseizes, I wonder if dropping one Cabal Therapy would work. Any thoughts?

[pandaman]

Played another 2 weeklies with Ooze, did alright, 5-2 in all. Only changes I made was to add a Chrome Mox and another Entomb. The fetches I didn't change at all just due to availability. Both the Chrome Mox and 4th Entomb were awesome, definitely will keep them. One thing I noticed is that I often had dead discard cards in my hand. With only 3 Thoughtseizes, I wonder if dropping one Cabal Therapy would work. Any thoughts?
If you've got two Probe you probably only want three Therapy. Discard isn't always dead because you can use it on yourself. E.g I once went land, Petal, Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize opponent taking FoW, Thoughtseize me taking Griselbrand, Shallow Grave Griselbrand. Another e.g. I topdecked a Griselbrand with a Thoughtseize and Shallow Grave in hand, and simply Thoughtseize'd it away and reanimated it. I'd keep the seven discard spells in there. You always want at least four (I've Top 8' two events with four) but five or more is probably better.

[Raystar]

I did it...I invested 300$ in buying Oozing on Magic Online :)

You'll find me there also like Raystar ;)

[Raystar]

I did it...I invested 300$ in buying Oozing on Magic Online :)

You'll find me there also like Raystar ;)

I also played my first game and won it :D good times!

[Raystar]

I also played my first game and won it :D good times!

One tech I never considered is Rain of Filth, should we give it a try instead of Chrome mox?

[pandaman]

It's very all-in, but powerful. Worth serious testing.

[Raystar]

It's very all-in, but powerful. Worth serious testing.

A friend also suggested the following sideboard:

4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lions' Eye Diamond
3 Cabal Ritual
3 Empty the Warrens

I don't know what to think of it... it is actually quite interesting (especially turn 1 against control and aggro/control). We would loose G altogether and we would only have 1 free slot in the side..

I'm open to ideas :)

[pandaman]

So, according to the April 2015 DTB Forum update, our two worst matchups, Miracles and BUG Delver, are the most played and second most played decks respectively. BUG has come back with a vengeance after the banning of Treasure Cruise. There has probably never been a worse time to play Oozing, so I'm shelving it (with much regret) to concentrate on my OmniTell build for this year's Eternal Masters (Lab Maniac kill with Enter the Infinite - going old school!). I will, however, continue to Ooze some Style and Class at the local tournaments and am currently considering buying it online. Raystar, where did you buy your cards from? Would you recommend there? Or, after purchasing, is there somewhere else you would have gone instead?

[Raystar]

So, according to the April 2015 DTB Forum update, our two worst matchups, Miracles and BUG Delver, are the most played and second most played decks respectively. BUG has come back with a vengeance after the banning of Treasure Cruise. There has probably never been a worse time to play Oozing, so I'm shelving it (with much regret) to concentrate on my OmniTell build for this year's Eternal Masters (Lab Maniac kill with Enter the Infinite - going old school!). I will, however, continue to Ooze some Style and Class at the local tournaments and am currently considering buying it online. Raystar, where did you buy your cards from? Would you recommend there? Or, after purchasing, is there somewhere else you would have gone instead?

I bought from Cardhoarder, very smooth transaction and by checking prices around also reasonable. The good thing is that you can upload your deck list and get it all at the same time (depending on availability of cards). They also don't use a bot for transactions, so when you are done just login and chat with the guy to get your cards.

If you also buy the deck online we are going to become the most hated pair on the servers :)

[Raystar]

Oozing undefeated after 5 matches :)

Only one was against miracles...looks like I'm lucky tonight ;)

One of the matches I didn't even get to see what my opponent was playing....I comboed 1st turn on the play and on the draw :)

[pandaman]

Hahaha, oh boy are we going to be hated. Getting killed by Griselbrand and Emrakul swinging on Turn 2, fine. Getting killed by an Ooze on Turn 1? Well, that's just insulting!

[Raystar]

Hahaha, oh boy are we going to be hated. Getting killed by Griselbrand and Emrakul swinging on Turn 2, fine. Getting killed by an Ooze on Turn 1? Well, that's just insulting!

I ended the evening with 7 wins and zero losses :)

Another Miracles went down together with another guy that didn't really have the time to let me understand what he was playing :) Two of the people I played against mulliganed to oblivion on the third game...I had forgotten how strong this deck was :)

[Raystar]

I forgot to mention: I'm running a list with 9 cantrips and only one Griselbrand...I know it's risky but it seems to be a lot more consistent. Here it goes:

2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs

3 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion
1 Griselbrand
1 Putrid Imp

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
2 Exhume
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
1 Exhume
4 Ground Seal
1 Massacre
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Reverent Silence
2 Surgical Extraction

[pandaman]

They are some good results, Raystar, thanks for keeping me updated. I'll try to buy into the list and join you online soon. At the moment, though, I have my hands full grinding OmniTell and trying to formulate a Vintage list that beats Gush Mentor. Oozing will, regrettably, have to wait!

[pandaman]

Also, I don't mind the one Griselbrand. If it gets disabled somehow (DRS or StP) you can just combo with Buried Alive + reanimation or Ooze beats + Entomb into Devourer. The only reason I liked two is if you happen to draw one you can still Entomb for the second without having to find a Brainstorm to put it back in your library or discard to put it in your graveyard. Let me know how you continue to find one. Admittedly, I often side it out so it one could well be optimal.

[Raystar]

They are some good results, Raystar, thanks for keeping me updated. I'll try to buy into the list and join you online soon. At the moment, though, I have my hands full grinding OmniTell and trying to formulate a Vintage list that beats Gush Mentor. Oozing will, regrettably, have to wait!

Hehe np ;)

I have to, regrettably, register my first loss at the hands of a Grixis pyromancer deck...Oozing refused to flow: in G2 I kept (mulligan to 6) an hand with 2 lands, 2 cantrips and 2 renimation spells....after some turns I had 5 lands on the board and 5 reanimation spells, unreal :)

[Raystar]

I am now at 9-1. The single Griselbrand is working perfectly, the only time I had it in my hand I therapied it for shallow grave :)

[pandaman]

Great, Raystar! With combo decks you sometimes take losses like the one you described to GrixPyro. In the end, though, we know the Ooze wins out! Although I'm on OmniManiac currently I'm becoming concerned about the uptake of people playing the OmniClash version and the hate for it that will inevitably start to become ubiquitous in sideboards. Although the Maniac kill dodges some of the hate, it is affected equally by most of it. I'll keep tabs on the meta over the next couple of months to see how much graveyard hate goes out of sideboards and how much Reanimator is played, because if grave hate decreases and Reanimator is abandoned, it might actually be a better metagame call to play Oozing instead. I can just jam three Abrupt Decay and three Reverent Silence against Miracles and four Ground Seal against BUG and go to town!