Staxx with Planeswalkers

[guybrush3]

Spells
4 Abrupt Decay Buy
4 Dark Ritual Buy


Enchantments
4 Nether Void Buy
3 Pernicious Deed Buy


Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void Buy
4 Crucible of Worlds Buy
4 Mox Diamond Buy
4 Sphere of Resistance Buy
4 Trinisphere Buy


Lands
4 Ancient Tomb Buy
4 Bayou Buy
4 City of Traitors Buy
3 Mishra's Factory Buy
2 Swamp Buy
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Buy
4 Wasteland Buy


Planeswalkers
2 Vraska the Unseen Buy

Well I would like to discuss to you the power of this list and if you suggest any adjustments...
Most of the cards in the list are well known in this sort of decks.
However I would like to point out how this deck worked fine playing against friends this weekend... Against some tournaments decks like merfolk, pox and rock.

What i liked to do was play again NETHER VOID and the only deck in legacy where he can stay is a deck where you can pull it out on turn 1 or 2 (both dark ritual and mox required or only one of them on T2 if you have ancient tomb or city of traitors -> otherwise si meanless . Dropping it on turn 3 might be good but not that much.
That's why I added at the list similar nether void cards like sphere or resistance , chalice, and trinishphere that more a less do what nether is supposed to do -> slow down the opponent making him impossible to cast spells.

Chalice -> to be played locking spells with converted mana cost 1 (who cares of your dark ritual)
Sphere -> lets you gain time and make things harder for them later
Trinisphere -> same as sphere but more efficient


Pernicious -> reset the board
Abrupt Decay-> targets to reset specific things on the board and isn't affected by the nether void effect
Crucible-> recover lands due to city of traitors and most of all combos with wasteland,that you will need to get back for mana too.

Vraska-> finisher, and well, planeswalker rules. And its nice to play this one that doesnt see play!

Yes under nether void spells cost 3 more so vraska would cost 8 but at that point of the game you'll have plenty mana to cast her. It might happen you play her without nether void on t2 with landt1+ landt2 + mox + land mox +dark ritual but it will be rare. I more often see a t4 happen with a land + mox + 3 other mana from lands.

Hope u enjoyed it.
Let me think what u think about it

ps: since trinisphere crucible and nether void are x4 they might become dead cards once you have one of the on the board. Since nether void kills the game i would maybe bring trini and crucible x2 each and add something more x4disruptive or x4 draw/controlling... Thoughtsize?Innocent blood or edicts with flashback?

EDIT: actually the last post of the thread is talking about this list of the deck (due to changes on it )
4x chalice of the void
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x the abyss
1x pact (black one)
4x Braids, the Cabal Minion
3x Dismember
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance
3x Dimir Signet
4x Wasteland
3x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Underground Sea
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

sideboard to be defined
2x perish
1x ensaring bridge
2x massacre
2x p needle
2x enginnered plague
4x leyline of the void
2xserum powder

[Lemnear]

Looses to resolved creatures lol. It's like old dragon-/Sea-Stompy just without a clock to Profit from the resistors like 3Sphere and it's lil' brother. What's up with the missing Lodestone Golem??

Pairing Deed with Chalice, Mox Diamond and Sphere of Resistance is bad design. Crucible doesn't help you a bit if you don't run fetchlands to increase your Lands on the Board by draining your Library Off them Turn by Turn or have endless Wasteland targets on the opposite side of the table.

This is a MUD.dec with the conceptional misbuild in splashing Black and Green for counterintuitive effects... a splash which is impossible to work; something you would have noticed if you have ever tested it before this post.

[Esper3k]

I'd rework the deck name. You seem to be missing Smokestacks...

[Lemnear]

Moreover it's not "Stacks" but "Staxx"

[guybrush3]

Apart from the name of the deck , that yes I should correct and call it BLACK GREEN MUD even if i don't see what mud has to do with it apart from some artifacts,let's discuss about the building:


Looses to resolved creatures lol. It's like old dragon-/Sea-Stompy just without a clock to Profit from the resistors like 3Sphere and it's lil' brother. What's up with the missing Lodestone Golem??

I don't Sea how sea stompy is nearly similar to this apart from 3 cards: TRINI, MOX, ancient/city ... The profit is that you should be able to lock down the game till the planeswalker arrives. It's not an aggro profit like in sea stompy of course. Maybe you are right it should be more aggro balanced. That's what I was trying to figure out. And adding 4 lodestone golem instead of 2 crucible and 2 sphere of resistance might be correct.


Pairing Deed with Chalice, Mox Diamond and Sphere of Resistance is bad design. Crucible doesn't help you a bit if you don't run fetchlands to increase your Lands on the Board by draining your Library Off them Turn by Turn or have endless Wasteland targets on the opposite side of the table.

I don't think is that bad. Of course the meaning of Deed is to use it with nether in play. It will be hard to restart after that. Plus I would sacrifice a Chalice if that means killing one or more creatures that are bothering me.
You are right about the crucible,I'll rather put something else and keep x2 slots and add at least 3 fetches.Crucible without fetches is stupid.

[Lemnear]

The Basic principles of Staxx in Vintage was to gain Board control with Smokestack and Tangle Wire while blocking opponents spells with Sphere of Résistance. Mirrodin added Trinisphere and Crucible of Worlds along other goodies, pushing the deck into the Focus of the B&R Committee.

MUD exchanged a lot of the Board Control components with creatures like Juggernaut and Su-Chi paired with "bumpers" like Sphere of Résistance and Wasteland to slow opponents gameplans so the creatures can go the distance. It was developed to fight TPS's common gameplan to play lands unmolested into an eot Rebuild, negating the whole Concept of Staxx. Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem and the Second Mirrodin Block pushed this Concept into the State it has today.

Both concepts ported into Legacy with mediocre success because both concepts loose the raw power of Mishra's Workshop and the original Artifact acceleration in form of the Moxen, Sol Ring, Black Lotus, Mana Crypt and Mana Vault.

To make it up for the loss, Staxx's and MUD's Legacy brothers play Lotus Petals, Mox Diamonds or Grim Monoliths.

This makes a lot of similar cards aside from the Concept to "Block" opponents spells:
- City of Traitors
- Ancient Tomb
- Trinisphere
- Sphere of Résistance
- Mox Diamond
- Wasteland
- Chalice of the Void
- Crucible of Worlds

Imo that's A LOT of shared cards. Since MUD is an Aggro Concept unlike the One you proposed, I think the idea of calling it "Staxx" is correct even if it lacks it's namesake Card.

My previous post, however rude (as usual posting from work), aimed for functional doubts about a) the Concept, b) the viability within the current meta and c) the use of Black and Green to achieve your goals.

Maybe you want to search this site for the original Legacy Staxx Concept ... called White Staxx afaik. It ran Flagstones of Trokair, Magus of the Tablernacle and Armageddon. I still remember there were concepts in Black with Nether Void and Braids, the Cabal Minion



Edit: Writing this via Smartphone was a pain

[guybrush3]

Thanks for the briefing about the history of these 2 deck names. Yes you were a little bit rude but no problem.The point of these posts are trying to pull out an idea to make sort of new decks that everybody could test and play if satisfied with the concept. That's why I'm not sure of it and I'm here in a forum trying to understand with all you magic fan players how to fix it (if there is a way).


Maybe you want to search this site for the original Legacy Staxx Concept ... called White Staxx afaik. It ran Flagstones of Trokair, Magus of the Tablernacle and Armageddon. I still remember there were concepts in Black with Nether Void and Braids, the Cabal Minion

Yes I know bout the armageddon staxx cuz I played with it quite a lot and still have all the cards. Like all of us legacy fanatics i own most of the cards so I've been able to play a lot since these days (less in the past 2 / 3 years) . What I always liked about magic was to try something different to be original. I know staxx isn't and a few changes won't make this deck ORIGINAL but the idea of that planeswalker + trying to use nether void (since it's an expensive card that when it's casted makes everybody say "WHOOOOA" :) ) was quite excting .

In the past days i used to build a black staxx with the abyss and ensnaring bridge plus tomb of urami as a finisher + all the same artifacts staxx spells that STAXX is still using, and wasnt bad at all. What fascinated me was finding in my drawer a couple of NETHER VOIDs near 1 abrupt decay. That was what made me think about black and green and let me build a deck around these 2 cards and colors.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

[kingtk3]

I second Lemnear as I think your gameplan is similar to Armageddon Staxx:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6044-Deck-Armageddon-Stax

For reference here's the MUD thread that covers the combo, the stompy and the staxx archetypes:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23388-Deck-MUD-(Metalworker)

Lemnear is right: without the Vintage accelerations it's difficult to make a simple porting of this concept from Vintage to Legacy.

MUD is played more as a combo (forgemaster builds) or tempo (stompy builds) deck and I think is distant from your idea.

Armageddon Staxx has make up for this by playing his namesake card (resetting the mana to turn 0) along some crowd control permanents like ghostly prison or suppression field.


You have to ask yourself how your deck deals with resolved threats: I see that you pack 4 abrupt decays and 3 pernicious deeds but, without any counter-magic/discard/creature I feel they will not be enough for the following reasons

7 cards out of 60 (with no deck manipulation) - you'll roughly draw one per 10 cards, so 1 or 2 per game, not close enough to survive I feel
pernicious wrecks YOUR deck, you'd be better playing damnation or the abyss
but the most troublesome thing is that you only have 4 green (wastable) sources in the deck for 9 green cards, which means that you almost always have those green cards sit in your hand without being able to cast them


More in general

dark ritual and chalice /ancient tomb/city of traitors/spheres aren't friends
you have no clock neither a solid lock


I don't want to discourage you, but I think you have to rethink the deck. For example, if you want it artifact heavy you should refrain from spells with more than 1 mana symbol in their CC.

Just some food for thoughts.

EDIT: got ninja'ed :/

[Lemnear]

I would say, if you want to make a Black Planeswalker Staxx tick, the Walker you are looking for is Liliana of the Veil. She handles creatures and the cards that stuck in opponents hand with an ultimate which Works well within the Concept. Together with Braids and Smokestack you can gain quick Board and mana control. May Start off something like this:

3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Nether Void
4x Braids, the Cabal Minion
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance
4x Dimir Signet
4x Wasteland
4x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
5x Swamp
4x Chalice of the Void

just from the top of my head.

Edit: complete sample list
Edit2: list was only 58 cards. fixed

[guybrush3]

Armageddon Staxx has make up for this by playing his namesake card (resetting the mana to turn 0) along some crowd control permanents like ghostly prison or suppression field.
:/

Yes it won't definitely be a combo deck but a control one,so no mud and more staxx. So stealing ideas from armageddon staxx could be correct even if black doesnt have armageddon. Nether void actually does quite the same thing in a sort of way. Maybe is even better,of course building something around it. Problem is that i think we just can't :( .

Maybe I should drop the staxx concept idea and remove the artifacts and add something like icestorms and sinkholes to prepare the ground before dropping nether void?Land destruction decks doesnt seem long life in legacy,could be a way to try them again combined with some of the last expansion cards.
In that case some creatures like tarmogoyf could be added to the cause

Is the planeswalker playable? I would like to keep it cuz nobody plays it and its something different than usual.

Probabilly bringing the deck closer to a seastompy style might be better but i'm not sure. I would rather bring back the once played land destruction deck with sinkhole and ice storm and a few bastards creatures before nether void hits the board...Question is " why land destruction doesn't work in legacy?"

[Lemnear]

Spell based Land destruction (1 for 1) is pointless against Combo and all the cheap threats today. Your opponents drop delver, Tarmogoyf and Knights of the Reliquary before you have the Chance to sinkhole or icestorm their lands. Deathrite Shaman is everywhere just to spoil your soup

Vraska has no advantage over Liliana in this Kind of Deck, cost 2 mana more and needs a second color. Lilly's weakness to opposing artifacts and enchantments is handled by Braids and Smockstack in my sample list.

You may want to test the Decks solo on Cockatrice

[guybrush3]

Spell based Land destruction (1 for 1) is pointless against Combo and all the cheap threats today. Your opponents drop delver, Tarmogoyf and Knights of the Reliquary before you have the Chance to sinkhole or icestorm their lands. Deathrite Shaman is everywhere just to spoil your soup

Vraska has no advantage over Liliana in this Kind of Deck, cost 2 mana more and needs a second color. Lilly's weakness to opposing artifacts and enchantments is handled by Braids and Smockstack in my sample list.

You may want to test the Decks solo on Cockatrice

mmm...yes Liliana is strong..maybe it's the only card u can compare to Jace. I play a monoblack with her and she really let you win games. Dark ritual plus her is awesome.I'll try your list then...I liked the idea of a second color to give more fun to nether void with the uncountarable spells , like this one too. Thrun, the last troll ...
Guess i might monoblack with braids and smockstack then...a little bit too Already seen but ok...i'll think at least some "new" cards to add at the list to make things at least more original. I know original in magic is often equal to Loose the Game but u never now :)

[Lemnear]

mmm...yes Liliana is strong..maybe it's the only card u can compare to Jace. I play a monoblack with her and she really let you win games. Dark ritual plus her is awesome.I'll try your list then...I liked the idea of a second color to give more fun to nether void with the uncountarable spells , like this one too. Thrun, the last troll ...
Guess i might monoblack with braids and smockstack then...a little bit too Already seen but ok...i'll think at least some "new" cards to add at the list to make things at least more original. I know original in magic is often equal to Loose the Game but u never now :)

Lilly, Signet and Talisman are complete strangers to the deck concept but should work here :D.

I dropped the Mox Diamonds and so the Turn 1 Trinisphere for much stronger and stable mana and plays Turn 2 and following. Mox Diamond is carddisadvantage and requires you to run 24+ Lands to make it work proper ... Don't like that. Moreover I doubt Legacy REQUIRES a Turn 1 Sphere

You can cut a Signet or two and add some more fancy stuff in that slots if you want.

[guybrush3]

Lilly, Signet and Talisman are complete strangers to the deck concept but should work here :D.

I dropped the Mox Diamonds and so the Turn 1 Trinisphere for much stronger and stable mana and plays Turn 2 and following. Mox Diamond is carddisadvantage and requires you to run 24+ Lands to make it work proper ... Don't like that. Moreover I doubt Legacy REQUIRES a Turn 1 Sphere

You can cut a Signet or two and add some more fancy stuff in that slots if you want.

Mmm yes they are stranger and i also like them even if they are the bad copy of original MOXES..but like you i also hate playing mox diamonds and chrome due to the card disadvantage so i'll definitely prefer to pay instead of discarding...if it works of course :) . I'll search for the fancy stuff. Since we are talking about the 6 top proxied cards ever maybe LOTUS BLOOM would be good for a mana fix later on.

EDIT: how we win? only mishra?Could add one balckgreen planeswalker with the blackgreen signets as a finisher :)

[guybrush3]

I would say, if you want to make a Black Planeswalker Staxx tick, the Walker you are looking for is Liliana of the Veil. She handles creatures and the cards that stuck in opponents hand with an ultimate which Works well within the Concept. Together with Braids and Smokestack you can gain quick Board and mana control. May Start off something like this:

3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Nether Void
4x Braids, the Cabal Minion
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance
4x Dimir Signet
4x Wasteland
4x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Swamp
4x Chalice of the Void

just from the top of my head. (Edit: complete Sample list)

u forgot FETCHES :)

[bruizar]

Moreover it's not "Stacks" but "Staxx"

it's actually '5ks', which stands for $5000 solution.

[Koby]

it's actually '5ks', which stands for $5000 solution.

More to the point: $T4kS - S T A K S = The $4,000 Solution.

[Lemnear]

u forgot FETCHES :)

Nope, Fetches were suggested first, because your decklist abused Crucible only to replay wastelands and destroyed Mishra's. My list offers additional synergy with Smokestack, Braids and Liliana (discard Lands) so I think Crucible is strong enough without fetchlands


Mmm yes they are stranger and i also like them even if they are the bad copy of original MOXES..but like you i also hate playing mox diamonds and chrome due to the card disadvantage so i'll definitely prefer to pay instead of discarding...if it works of course :) . I'll search for the fancy stuff. Since we are talking about the 6 top proxied cards ever maybe LOTUS BLOOM would be good for a mana fix later on.

EDIT: how we win? only mishra?Could add one balckgreen planeswalker with the blackgreen signets as a finisher :)

since my original list was only 58 cards you could rather cut 1-2 swamps than the signets for 1-2 fancy and fun kill conditions. Since the talisman and signets already produce Blue mana, the sample decklist may support Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. Basically you can adjust the Signets and Talisman due to your color preferences as long as they produce black in addition.

Lotus bloom becomes active turn 4 at best, aside from the asynergy with 3Sphere, Void and Chalice. At this point you either have control or are likely shuffling anyways ;)

Yeah, I was planing to win only via Mishra at this stage ... could be risky with surgical extraction around, but the decklist was typed in like 4 minutes without any testing

[TraxDaMax]

Deeds and that many 0 mana cc artifacts seems really really degenerate..

[Lemnear]

Ok, my sample list DOES work as it should, but has serious problems with resolved Planeswalkers, fast Stoneforge -> Batterskull, Lingering Souls, Thragtusk, etc.

Aside from that: It' painful to play for 20+ rounds without damage or 2 damage per round off Braids or a Mishra. The card that underperformed aside from the obvious victims Elves, Combo and RUG Delver was Chalice of the Void. I decided to shift it into my sideboard for now and add more "punch" to the deck with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas ... signets that smash for 5 damage into planeswalkers/players + the ability to dig for Smokestack and Co. performs nice. I, as usual, start with full playsets and reduce during testing. Here the current list

4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Nether Void
4x Braids, the Cabal Minion
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance
4x Dimir Signet
4x Wasteland
4x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Underground Sea
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

[guybrush3]

Well, the idea of 8 planeswalker is very cool. Prob they will become x3 each after testing..Have u tested it on cockatrice? Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas fits perfectly in the machine adding a spoon of control to the deck and giving it those creatures that it doesn't have. Also it's quite solid.
It would be nice to add the casting cost 5 tezzeret but its requires 2 blue mana..could be an idea to splash him in too plus a x1 of a super artifact to put in play from the deck. Well , the other tezzeret it's way better,no doubt about it. I will add just a couple of Inkmoth Nexus to have a 5/5 flying beater with poison instead of a simple 5/5 . Might help. Even if the cute thing is that artifact REMAIN 5/5 while nexus doesn't since he's an artifact since the end of turn so maybe it's not a good idea.
Oh well he's nice and a few players play it so i like the originality of the choice.

Nice even if it's not the green black planes walker but i can get used to him :)
Ill search for more cards from the recent expansions that might fit the deck. I'm still not sure that 4 dark rituals shouldn't be in the list , they are so strong to use to cast 1 turn liliana and other stuff. Like planeswalker tezzeret on turn 2 also...Yes they are useless with NETHER VOID but since that chalice is out they might be worth it. I'll reduce crucible and x1 of braids or smokestack to put at least x2 dark rituals and then try other 2 slots to complete the set ( i'll prob ask 1tezzeret to invite 1liliana out for dinner)

By the way,
Thanks for trying the deck and speeding your time trying it .
very kind

[Lemnear]

I prefer Mishra's Factory over Nexus atm because of their 3/3 Body (via selfpump) to block. Once you go Aggro with Tezz, you spawn a New 5/5 every Turn. I prefer several 5/5's over a Single flying 5/5; especially @ trading blows

Having Access to BB or UB sometimes seem to be difficult though :/

I really dislike Ritual and other acceleration that eats cards like mox Diamond in such decks. You can still Play Lilly, Smokestack, Crucible, 3Sphere, Tezz and Nether Void Turn 2 (except Void is a Bad idea).

I test function exclusively on Cockatrice (the Offline Servers hurt :/). You should test the current configuration for about 20 games before chopping or replacing cards tbh. The first cuts would likely be an urborg and a tezzeret. I'll leave it to you from this point. Hope I could help

[guybrush3]

Thank you,
yeah i was thinking to cut 1 urborg 1 tezz 1 lil 1 braids/smokestack ( maybe braids since BB and the legend type , even if i prefer her). Maybe 1 crucible too. So those are 4/5 slots to put something solid maybe pyrexian totem dunno. Won't be hard to splash in 4 cards that will fulfill in what at this point it lacks of.

[Lemnear]

Thank you,
yeah i was thinking to cut 1 urborg 1 tezz 1 lil 1 braids/smokestack ( maybe braids since BB and the legend type , even if i prefer her). Maybe 1 crucible too. So those are 4/5 slots to put something solid maybe pyrexian totem dunno. Won't be hard to splash in 4 cards that will fulfill in what at this point it lacks of.

The only thing the Deck sometimes lacked in my Limited testing was having Access to the double colors Turn 2, because it requires a Sol Land, mana artifact and a Black producing land which is much to ask for. I urge you NOT to cut ANYTHING before testing. Braids, Lilly, Smokestack and Crucible are your bread&butter. You can't have enough of them, trust me. I played an insane match vs Miracles and needed 2 Braids, a Crucible, a Lilly and a Smokestack to overcome a FoW, 2 Spell Pierce and 2 counterspells to finally stick a Tezzeret through.

[kingtk3]

...
Having Access to BB or UB sometimes seem to be difficult though :/
...

If you play dimir signet you'll get UB more easily then BB. Also, you could play darkwater catacombs that helps getting double colored mana.

If you're interested in Tezzeret AoB you should look in this thread
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24801-UB-Tezzeret&highlight=tezzeret

The deck is basically a planewalkers controll in UB

[guybrush3]

If you play dimir signet you'll get UB more easily then BB. Also, you could play darkwater catacombs that helps getting double colored mana.

If you're interested in Tezzeret AoB you should look in this thread
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24801-UB-Tezzeret&highlight=tezzeret

The deck is basically a planewalkers controll in UB

this thread might be more similar to this deck http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20053-Planeswalker-Stax

I still haven't start testing our list , but if it has problems with BB BU it might be an idea to fill 3 slots of lotus petal or , the "hated" moxdiamond :( .
Will start testing on cockatrice ...have to find out how it works . Can i download somewhere else than the official website since has shutted down?

edit: an idea could be mox opal

[Lemnear]

Sunken Ruins fixed the Problem ... maybe :)

4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Nether Void
4x Braids, the Cabal Minion
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance
4x Dimir Signet
4x Wasteland
4x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Sunken Ruins -> Underground Sea
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Try MagicWorkstation if Hasbro even shut down the Cockatrice Download in Addition to the Game servers


Edit: Sunken Ruins blanks too often, back to Underground Sea ... Maybe try Creeping tar Pit over the mishra's ... Kills Planeswalker like da boss :/

[guybrush3]

Who will ever say to prefer Sunken to Underground :) ...we have 32 mana sourcers... more than half the deck.. :eek:

[Lemnear]

Who will ever say to prefer Sunken to Underground :) ...we have 32 mana sourcers... more than half the deck.. :eek:

Yes, and 12 of them smash faces paired with Tezzeret :). I know how strange the deck looks but 50% mana isn't uncommon for Staxx/MUD.

Creeping Tar Pit vs. Mishra's Factory needs a broader testing though.


PS: may change the thread title ... it's very misleading

[Lemnear]

Oh my god!

A pal noticed how insane this deck works with Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obediance out of the Sideboard, morphing into a combo deck while hating out Dredge, Reanimator and Co.

[metamet]

Oh my god!

A pal noticed how insane this deck works with Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obediance out of the Sideboard, morphing into a combo deck while hating out Dredge, Reanimator and Co.

That was discussed here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24801-UB-Tezzeret&p=709909&viewfull=1#post709909

I'm not quite seeing why this deck needs its own thread when we have already have a Planewalker Stax thread.

[Lemnear]

That was discussed here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24801-UB-Tezzeret&p=709909&viewfull=1#post709909

I'm not quite seeing why this deck needs its own thread when we have already have a Planewalker Stax thread.

You don't think that Liliana, Smokestack, Nether Void and Braids SLIGHTLY alter the decks gameplan?

[bruizar]

More to the point: $T4kS - S T A K S = The $4,000 Solution.

You sir, are correct :-) Pretty outdated name considering the prices of cards nowadays.

[guybrush3]

Oh my god!

A pal noticed how insane this deck works with Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obediance out of the Sideboard, morphing into a combo deck while hating out Dredge, Reanimator and Co.

then we have x5/6 cards for the sideboard ready to stick with the deck. :) ! maybe also 3 serum powder just to be sure! :)

I think the deck should be called STAXX VOID due to nether main and leyline + chalice in side board!!

ps: have u done more testing? could download workstation due to mac and cant find cockatrice form friends or online. I should emulate windows on my mac perhaps:cry:

[Lemnear]

Haven't tested any further, because atm I have neither the Time nor the dedication needed to do evaluation/finetuning which is seriously needed. Maybe because I've played 2 years of vintage Staxx After the original Mirrodin block and am pretty saturated from this concept in general neither have Nether Voids to ever play it in RL :)

[RaZe]

I would keep this deck mono black.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 Swamp
4 Mox Diamond

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Braids, Cabal Minion
3 Liliana of the Veil

Cards to Consider for this build would be...

Ensnaring Bridge
Maze of Ith
Serum Powder
Leyline of the Void
Helm of Obedience
Phyrexian Revoker
Karn, Silver Golem

[bruizar]

I would keep this deck mono black.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 Swamp
4 Mox Diamond

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Smokestack
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Braids, Cabal Minion
3 Liliana of the Veil

Cards to Consider for this build would be...

Ensnaring Bridge
Maze of Ith
Serum Powder
Leyline of the Void
Helm of Obedience
Phyrexian Revoker
Karn, Silver Golem


This looks like one of my vintage brews I used to play around with. (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=40624.0)

I'd like to suggest running tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Kormus Bell.

[guybrush3]

I would keep this deck mono black.[/cards]

your list takes out nether void that is the core of the deck with braids. Or at least it was what the deck was constructed around. Tezzeret was another non-swap card . :) So i guess we will keep it blue black. But thanks for your opinion. I'll test it friday night with some changes , just 2 -3 cards.

[guybrush3]

A few notes after played with a couple of friends: Too many mana sources i think 2 or 3 can go. (1 mishra,1dimir signet,1city of traitors). Might swap 1 urborg with 1 artifact swamp too. Braids x3 (double black mana not that easy on turn 2 or 3) .Will still keep x4 liliana since they are sorcery speed creature killers. Will probabilly bring x3 nether voids. I think 90% of the times even if u can u won't drop it on turn 2 since it will shut u down too. Better after u have set up your board a bit.

I will probabilly add x4 istant speed turn 1 or 2 creature killers. (diabolic edict?powder keg?).

Will be nice abrupt decay but colors won't allow it. Unless we change tezzeret with vraska. Might worth a try but im not sure it will work without tezzeret control deck ability. Still needs tests this way.

What do you think?

[Lemnear]

I asume you aggressively mulled into Sol Land + Signet/talisman for Braids/Tezz to work as intended. If you feel to cut 3 manasources, a urborg and 2 signets might be Top choice. If you want Instant Speed removal here i would try Dismember: it's Black, Instant, cheap, and colorless at the Same Time.

[guybrush3]

I asume you aggressively mulled into Sol Land + Signet/talisman for Braids/Tezz to work as intended. If you feel to cut 3 manasources, a urborg and 2 signets might be Top choice. If you want Instant Speed removal here i would try Dismember: it's Black, Instant, cheap, and colorless at the Same Time.


I appreciate your concern. Yes sometime i mulled hoping in that combination of cards. Do you think is sort of something you should always do? I'll start by cutting only 1 mana source: 1 signet. plus 1 swap urborg->swamp.
I'll consider dismember even if with ancient tomb it will hurt a bit.
I'm still fashinated by the green black version but i think abrupt decay will be hard to cast at turn 2 (but makes playable nether void turn 2 much more),plus vraska +1 ability sucks. Without testing ill suggest next to the decklist the green version of it.


Time for an updated list then.

Sunken Ruins fixed the Problem ... maybe :)
1x Swamp /forest
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth /forests
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Nether Void
3x Braids, the Cabal Minion
3x Dismember / abrupt decay
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance /greenversion
3x Dimir Signet /greenversion
4x Wasteland
4x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Sunken Ruins /greenversion
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas / x2vraska, the unseen x2sylvan library

sideboard:
1x helm of obedience
4x leyline of the void
4x chalice of the void
3x Engineered Plague
3x serum powder

[Lemnear]

Sunken Ruins was a failure ... 1/3 of the Time it worked, rest was a brick. Run duals, dood.

P.S.: you'll need 3 helm in SB

[guybrush3]

Sunken Ruins was a failure ... 1/3 of the Time it worked, rest was a brick. Run duals, dood.

P.S.: you'll need 3 helm in SB

well since we dont need to search the deck for swamp island and since i dont have 4 und sea i could run some underground rivers.. ithought sunken were quite good. whatever..

[Lemnear]

well since we dont need to search the deck for swamp island and since i dont have 4 und sea i could run some underground rivers.. ithought sunken were quite good. whatever..

I could go into Detail: i opened Matches with tomb into signet which got spell pierced or dazed often in my tests which I needed to resolve for ruins. As a result i was colorblocked .. Even worse if you drew a Second Ruin x/

If you want to Dodge the Investment of Duals or dislike the damage of painlands/shocklands (especially with Ancient tomb + Dismember), this One is the Way to go:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=209400&type=card

[guybrush3]

yes also. My metagame hasn't seen recently many dazes or counter decks,dunno why. They are all more playing tin fins,maverick,pox or some tribal decks... however against tin fins second and third game with more than 8 cards from the sideboard shouldnt be that nasty to deal with.

I'm more scared of fast goblin merfolk decks or black discard annoying cards.

edit: damnation or the abyss sideboard could fix the problem. maybe even x1 main. or u thing x3 desmember are quite good enough ?

[Lemnear]

I was sure we Play Lilly, Braids, Staxx and Manlands for those matchups. If discard is that Common in your Meta, it's maybe Time to question Nether Void and consider Chalice. I know you don't want to hear this One, because I tinkered this Deck for your Nether Voids at base

[guybrush3]

I was sure we Play Lilly, Braids, Staxx and Manlands for those matchups. If discard is that Common in your Meta, it's maybe Time to question Nether Void and consider Chalice. I know you don't want to hear this One, because I tinkered this Deck for your Nether Voids at base

no its ok i was thinking at keeping x4 of them main.
something like this setup:
4x chalice
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Nether Void
3x Braids, the Cabal Minion
3x Dismember
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance
3x Dimir Signet
4x Wasteland
3x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
4x dual
and x7 among Tezzy and Lilly

[Lemnear]

Looks reasonable

[guybrush3]

was thinking that dismember with trini doesnt sound cool but will still work.i like dismember and glad u pointed me at it. its cheap,it targets (lilly doesn't) i'll try to play tomorrow night with this set up. What would u side out for the combo sideboard?
edit: since we have x4 chalice i'll prob also (After tests) remove 1 trinisphere and add a x1 finisher cuz if we dont draw tizzy after half deck it might be hard to kill the opponent.

[Lemnear]

Depends on the matchup. Most likely Nether Voi +, tezzeret, depending if your Opponent run's something with creatures/creature removal himself which make Braids Bad or is a Combo Deck like reanimator against those dismember+Lilly are pointless/dumb

[guybrush3]

edit: since we have x4 chalice i'll prob also (After tests) remove 1 trinisphere and add a x1 finisher cuz if we dont draw tizzy after half deck it might be hard to kill the opponent.

something like wurmcoil engine might be good.
just thought at how bad nether void and trini does to both players. since ill prob play x2 and x3or4 this will be useless but it could be worth a x1 spot [CARD]Relic Barrier[/CARDS]. your turn your spell cost plus 3 during his turn his spells cost at least 6 :) well a 3 card mechanic synergy not really worth it

[Lemnear]

something like wurmcoil engine might be good.
just thought at how bad nether void and trini does to both players. since ill prob play x2 and x3or4 this will be useless but it could be worth a x1 spot [CARD]Relic Barrier[/CARDS]. your turn your spell cost plus 3 during his turn his spells cost at least 6 :) well a 3 card mechanic synergy not really worth it

Trinisphere doesn't increase manacosts, it ensures no spell is cast for less than 3. I'm Not sure if the issue Tribishphere + shattering Spree doesn't apply to Trinishphere+Nether Void+chrome mox as well. Maybe something for the rules question...

Relic Barrier only taps ... there is no way YOU can Profit from that Card during your turn aside from the fact that your spells cost 3+ mana anyways which does Not affect Trinishphere+Nether Void at all. Wurmcoil is just cute ... you CAN Play a lot in that Deck but such cards fit better in regular MUD Decks with Grim Monolith and Voltaic Key.

[bruizar]

If Nether Void is the plan, and you are running so many Urborgs, shouldn't there be a place for Cabal Coffers in the deck?

[guybrush3]

If Nether Void is the plan, and you are running so many Urborgs, shouldn't there be a place for Cabal Coffers in the deck?

Cuz we don't like dead cards and cabal in first or second hand could be very bad. It would be nice later but not at the beginning. Just a thought...


Going to play tonight. Any suggested strategy? Any rule to follow? something like "always mulligan if u don't start with a coloured mana?"
Still thinking at a x1 beater. Tombstalker could be an idea.

[Lemnear]

Are 5/5 Signets STILL not enough beatz?

Tip: Hands without Sol Lands or Signets/Talisman are crap. Best if you have both. Hands with Wasteland+mishra+Underground Sea are a mulligan, Even with Crucible, because they are simply too slow. Turn 2 - 3 mana - is an absolute Minimum requirement for this Deck. I rather mulligan than keeping such a grip of 7

Tombstalker is nonsense, the only cards in your graveyard should be City of traitors and wastelands aside from countered cards

[kingtk3]

I agree with Lemnear interaly. Although, if you want another finisher you could try Promise of Power: this deck could have the mana and the time to entwine it, and even you don't the draw part is not half bad (sorry for the joke ^_^ )

[guybrush3]

A FEW ANTICIPATIONS FOLKS:

Friday night i partecipated at a DCI tournament with the deck we talked about these days.People were surprised and seemed to appreciate how the deck worked.No other staxx were playing.We were something like 18/20 people. I'll go more in detail later since I don't have time now.
My deck:
4x chalice
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Nether Void
3x Braids, the Cabal Minion
3x Dismember
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Talisman of Dominance
3x Dimir Signet
4x Wasteland
3x Smokestack
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Underground Sea
2x Underground River
1x Watery Grave
x4 Tezzy and x3 Lilly

Sideboard (was crap i assemble it with no time):
4 leyline of the void (never used it)
2 extirpate (never used it)
2 serum powder (sideboarded once)
1 ensaring bridge (never used it)
2 enginnered plague (never used it)
2 Massacre (sideboarded twice)
2 perish (sideboarded once)

Yes no helm . Didn't have them.I'll try the combo next time,fortunally no reanimator played against me.Or combo decks.
____________

round1 lost 0-2
against GREEN/WHITE MAVERICK - weenies,deathrite shaman, greensunzenit ,kor, stoneforge mystic, equipments, GADDOCK tegg (MAIN!) deck.
Well it was the first match and i really played bad.Made many mistakes and started second game with only colorless mana (with sol land ) but the ther cards were only braids void tezzy. No chances to play them. I was drunk. I deserved to loose.Plus,wasnt lucky,no perish or massacre arrived.
First game i can only say that deathrite shaman is very annoying. Removes your wastelands . Removes your city of traitors. Gets mana from them when u are trying to lock them. Pretty bastards. Well first game he dropp gaddock tegg on turn 3 if i remember and that was really bad. Liliana wasnt enough to make him sacrifice it. Hard to keep her alive so she died after killing the shaman. Wasnt easy after he dropped umezawa. Well i prefer to forget this match.He also bounced me braids with karakas.Nasty player but i was still confused with my deck.
HATED CARDS: deathrite shaman,gaddock tegg
_________

round2 won 2-1 STILL HAVE TO EDIT THIS ROUND (the only one where tezz saved my ass )
against mono white weenie,with some artifacts such as Phyrexian Marauder , batter skull, serra avenger ,thalia, aether vial,stoneforge mystic, Squadron Hawk

HATED CARDS:
karakas,flying creatures
_____________
round3 won 2-0
against BANT - can't say i saw his deck cuz i completly blocked him from the beginning both games. However it was a white blue deck with counters stoneforge mystics and dont remember what else.. many duals i can say due to the 3 color.
I top decked every turn.He actually didnt play anything than a desperate lonely umezawa on game 1.He mulled at 5 second turn and i started wastelanding his dual land. Wasnt a happy night for him. I thing i also didn't have many counters on turn one or simply couldn't chalice-trini play them.
HATED CARDS:
none i can say
_____________
round4 draw due to points (played friendly and lost 2-1)
against RUG - Had Delver of Secrets , counters, burn spells, tarmogoyf
We didn't use sideboards cuz it was a friendly match. Game one i blocked him pretty fast and he conceded.Game two he countered me most of the things (well,i really don't remember that game honestly).Game three i blocked him but he was able to turn his delver of secrets on turn 2 and even if he pratically spent 5 turns without any permanent other than the flying bastard he managed to kill me . 1 lilly 1 dismember countered. without a blocker or something that goes more faster than his 3 damage to kill him wasnt easy to do anything. I just waited to draw the right card that never arrived and when it did (braids) he force of willed it. I had on the board crucible mishra trini chalice if i remember.
HATED CARDS:
Delver of Secrets (i hate creatures,more if the fly)
___________
TOP8: passed
___________
top8 quarterfinal lost 0-2
Against WhiteBlu Control Helm deck. (he never did the combo)

Lost after a long 40 minutes first game.He passed through my blocked board and my trini doing 2 flying MIRACLED 4/4 creatures.Then killed me.
Rest in Peace can affect your Crucible of Worlds recurring lands like wasteland.This is what happened but he played basic lands and a lot of fetches so that wasn't the worse part. The worse part was that with no cards in your cemetery i wasn't able to put a free permanent every turn to get advantage of smokestack and braids.Didn't see any Counterbalance but he playes a x4 Sensei's Divining Top (dropped down both games). Chalice of the Void for 1 can prevent that from coming into play but in both games i played it the next turn.It saved me once cuz he couldnt play enlightned tutor to complete the combo.Chalice really hurts (brainstorm , swords...) . Land disruption is key against control deck, so if you can get a Smokestack to resolve while keeping them off of too many other permanents, it will go a long way.And first game is when this happened :) .Unfortunally he had JAce in play and couldn't manipulate my smokestack to get rid of it. He was brainstoming for lands to much faster than my smokestack.
Post sideboarding Pithing Needle would help. Maybe even Defense Grid.
Second match he top decked every turn and i made a mistake of trying to drop tezzeret on turn 2 without success. Never do that. I've understood that tezzeret has to be dropped at MG. This deck is useless if u dont block and control the deck first. Plus he added more flyer creatures and i removed 2 lilianas for serum powder (hoping in chalice/trini turn 1/2). However i played that one bad so was my fault.
HATED CARD:
Jace (free brainstorm to draw lands permanents is to strong)
______________________________________________

I can only say what the deck suffered the most are CREATURES. Sounds strange but its like this.
BEST CARDS: braids,chalice,trinisphere,crucible
MAYBE WORSE: liliana ( ill explain later why liliana) and nether void -> it's a super lock card but is the last one of so many u can play. If u play it soon it will also lock u. If u play it later u only put a safety lock on a lock you should already have signed on. It's fun of course when i arrives at MD but might be a dead card to be replaced.Yes,i'm crying.
CARDS THAT WORK AS THEY INTEND TO: talisma/dimir (the mana curve of the deck was quite good to deal with,didn't have many problems with BB and UB),smokestack,dismember,mishra


CARDS THAT MIGHT BE NEEDED IN SIDEBOARD/MAIN:
DAMNATION/THE ABYSS/TABERNACLE AT PENDRELL VALE/SMALLPOX/ALL IS DUST/ POWDER KEG:eek:?
pithing needle for planeswalkers ( i forgot them)
maybe 1 gargoyle castle?
what about slaughter pact?????
I really think damnation x2 should be side boarded. The abyss could go main x1(bad synergy with braids but very good with 5/5 little tizzy since they are artifacts creatures). Tabernacle dunno needs to be tested a bit.But i'll have to play at least 2.

RULES TO FOLLOW:
ASSURE TO HAVE 2 turn 3 mana always. (with black better)
Tezzereth is no point dropping it down before turn 5/6 (depends on the match) better "staxx" the board before.
Turn 2 trini,braids,crucible/waste,chalice are the best plays. Should prob mulligan if u think wont be able to do it.

FINAL STRANGE QUESTIONS:
(Still editing this part)
tezzereth : I'm asking how much tezzereth will really help this deck to win. The second ability is what u almost only play. Controlling the deck is something u dont want to do when tezzereth is played in md. You are supposed to be in control of the board by then. I feel like it's not a super planeswalker for this deck.Was asking myself if another planeswalker could do better between this ones : VRASKA ,KARN,SORIN MARKOV (of course adusting lands and talisman signets).Tezzereth is good in a deck like this (wich i fall in love with but never like to copy decks so wont play it http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_planeswalker_stax_wi.html )
liliana: well, i love her in my pox deck. Shes the best card ive been playing with due to her synergy with hymn to touch/toughtsize. But here? mmmm here her first ability sucks a bit.So u drop her only to kill a creature. Is that worth 3 mana?Of course shes better than that but maybe the abyss or something that targets or some mass kill could replace her.

Bye guys.Happy for the results.

[Lemnear]

Looking forward 4 details. No idea what the Problem with creatures were. I doubt damnation or smallpox will help here. I would check the softspots in the MD. You had 12 out's to creatures MD. Liliana can't handle multiples which i suspect was an issue in Match 1 & 2 and Braids/Smokestack Need some Time to do their work

Perish, Bridge and massacre should have been Good those matches.

The Abyss is a classic which may deserves the Spot of dismember

[guybrush3]

Looking forward 4 details. No idea what the Problem with creatures were. I doubt damnation or smallpox will help here. I would check the softspots in the MD. You had 12 out's to creatures MD. Liliana can't handle multiples which i suspect was an issue in Match 1 & 2 and Braids/Smokestack Need some Time to do their work

Perish, Bridge and massacre should have been Good those matches.

The Abyss is a classic which may deserves the Spot of dismember

Yes the abyss is awesome . Ofcourse the point is. Do we need something that clean the board and change the game like damnation or something that help u get it cleared from the beginning? This question doesnt have answer cuz it depends on when u draw the cards. :/ Probabilly the abyss is much more good if we run a x3.

PS: i still would like to make a build starting with these cards :x4 nether voids x4 vraska x4 abrupt decay
it could be whatever but has to be with this cards :) trying to figuring out maybe an aggro pox with lilianas and pernicious and tarmogoyfs,For that i should create a thread or write on another one i think.

[Lemnear]

So you lost against Delver after he was able to counter 3(!!) of your answers ... there's nothing to feel bad about tbh. The Match 1 was a total punt, however. For the T8 match I would be interesting how you handled Smockstack here ... against an active Jace you have to ramp it up as fast as possible, using Crucible (not against RIP obv) and Tezz' +1 as card-puffer. It's, non the less, strange that he was able to get up to 4 mana to cast jace in the first place...

Speaking of Tezz: I used his +1 a lot more than the -1 ability. He digs for lock-components and gives you cards for Braids, Smokestack and Liliana. Your reports reads as if you missunderstand his prime application in this deck. I gave Liliana the nod over Abyss in the first iteration of the deck because of the discard, wich gives you another angle to attack combo-decks, attrition wars and for players, which sandbag lands facing a smokestack with 2 counters or more... I rather cut the nether Voids for Abyss than the Lilly's tbh.

The "Turn 2 - 3 Mana" rule is a must; told ya


After all I don't think the deck was bad after all. You even managed to win the creature heavy match 2 which should give you confidence in that term. That I disliked in your list you took to the event were the numbers: 3x Smokestack, 3 Braids, 4 Crucible or 4 Tezz, 3 Lilly doesn't make much sense imo. Additional Crucibles/Tezz don't do much. Lilly's and Smokestacks however, can be cast/burned endlessly ... that may would have won you a game or two as well...

[guybrush3]

So you lost against Delver after he was able to counter 3(!!) of your answers ... there's nothing to feel bad about tbh. The Match 1 was a total punt, however. For the T8 match I would be interesting how you handled Smockstack here ... against an active Jace you have to ramp it up as fast as possible, using Crucible (not against RIP obv) and Tezz' +1 as card-puffer. It's, non the less, strange that he was able to get up to 4 mana to cast jace in the first place...

Speaking of Tezz: I used his +1 a lot more than the -1 ability. He digs for lock-components and gives you cards for Braids, Smokestack and Liliana. Your reports reads as if you missunderstand his prime application in this deck. I gave Liliana the nod over Abyss in the first iteration of the deck because of the discard, wich gives you another angle to attack combo-decks, attrition wars and for players, which sandbag lands facing a smokestack with 2 counters or more... I rather cut the nether Voids for Abyss than the Lilly's tbh.

The "Turn 2 - 3 Mana" rule is a must; told ya


After all I don't think the deck was bad after all. You even managed to win the creature heavy match 2 which should give you confidence in that term. That I disliked in your list you took to the event were the numbers: 3x Smokestack, 3 Braids, 4 Crucible or 4 Tezz, 3 Lilly doesn't make much sense imo. Additional Crucibles/Tezz don't do much. Lilly's and Smokestacks however, can be cast/burned endlessly ... that may would have won you a game or two as well...

About the deck list:
-Yes, 2x abyss has to replace x2 nether voids. (what about tabernacle? would it be worth a try,due to urborgs and crucuble too)
-So u would suggest a x4 lilly x4 smoke x4 braids x2 crucible and x3tezz?
About tezz:
Well the +1 ab didn't seem to resolve much when i had the opportunity to cast tezz. I of course used it like 3/4 times over the night but wasn't that super ability.Dunno need more testing.I'll edit in about an hour the match 2 so I'll explain how he worked out being able to create many 5/5 and also being able to life drain him. what i could say is that u'll probabilly wont drop him to search for a card that you will use the next turn instead of casting another spell in your hand the same turn. It really depends on the oppononent u are facing and on what u have on the board. Only thing i can say is don't cast it on turn 2 if u have smoke,braids or trini cuz they are much better than him. He comes later...unless your hand is bad and u can only cast him of course. On the top 8 match i honestly don't remember how he dropped jace but he did :) wasn't easy to remove it afterwards.I brought smokestack to 4 hoping to clean the board but with jace and sensei he continued to play lands every turn and right before i was gonna blow it he miracled the angels. I can say however that match was weelplayed by both,recevied compliments from the judge. I've could win but i didn't just for a bad top decking at one point i believe.

The deck works and is fun too if u like to play slow games of course. Just needs a better sideboard and to really know how to play it cuz ain't easy at all.

[guybrush3]

update:
played against a NATURAL ORDER / EUREKA white green deck with bolas planeswalker and emrakul/progenitus. won3 matches 2-1 2-1 2-1 .
Won against berserk deck easily too.