[Primer/Deck] Zoo

[Vandalize]

I apologize for the double post, but I've been testing a list and I wanted to share. Pretty much brewed something along the lines Demonic_Attorney was talking about.

The list:

Lands [20]
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Creatures [26]
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Goblin Guide
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Grim Lavamancer

Spells [14]
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress

Sideboard [15]
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing Needle
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ancient Grudge

Maindeck is pretty fast, and Price of Progress is nuts against all these greedy manabases in the top tiers (UWR Delver, Team America, Canadian Thresh, Deathblade, Jund). Death and Taxes is a good matchup as well, it really depends on burning that Mom ASAP and keep Stoneforge's equipment at bay (pretty easy post-board). Spirit of the Labyrinth has been awesome, he's a must-target against any blue deck, saving our other critters from removal. I've also had a pretty funny moment against Sneak and Show: he tapped out to SnT Griselbrand against my SoL, and couldn't draw off Griselbrand, then his dude just got Pathed and he didn't have FoW, nor could cantrip into more business. Awesome.

Regarding the sideboard, I've been pretty unhappy with REBs and Relics. REB was just a guarantee against True-Name Nemesis, but I can usually race them, and if they're not equipped and not attacking, that gives me time to find my burn to reach those last few life points. Relics have been pretty useless. The only Dredge player in my area is myself, and Reanimator is pretty underrepresented as well. I usually board against GW Maverick and ANT, but I might be switching it to Surgical Extraction.

Still, good to see Zoo being average (to say the least) again. I miss those times.

Any advice or comments?

[bombbonne]

So the SCG Invitational is around the corner and I just qualified. Since this will be my last legacy event for a long time I want to go back to my roots. I played Zoo for years when it was still good, and I'm hoping that now is a good time to bring it back. The below list is like a compilation of the input that I've read in this thread. I've still very undecided on the sideboard, but any inputs on the deck is much appreciated.

4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Spirit of Labyrinth
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pride Mage
2 Grim lavamancer
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Price to Progress
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
2 Fireblast

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plataea
1 Forest
1 Mountain

SB
3 Mindbreak trap
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Red elemental blast
2 Wear/Tear
1 Price of Progress
2 Searing Blaze

[zulander]

So here's an updated list that's been okay for me recently, still having some sideboard issues:

Lands: 21
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Wasteland

Creatures: 25
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Loxodon Smiter

Other: 14
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix

So for my board I know I'd like the following slots:

Combo:
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Thalia

1-2 Krosan Grip


But now what for control/TNN decks?

[CRich3]

I have been playing nothing but Zoo for the past 2 months and I am having the most fun I've had playing magic in a while. I went to both SCG Detroit and SCG Cincy and top'd 64. Still working on some changes to make it better. But here are results from both tournaments. Im going to SCG Indy at the end of the month also. I feel this deck is well positioned right now since everyone is playing anti combo decks.

SCG Detroit 5-3
1. vs RWU Delver (L 1-2) - Couldn't find answer to Batterskull games 2/3.
2. vs Miracles (W 2-0)
3. vs Merfolk (W 2-0)
4. vs Elves (L 0-2) - Turn 3 kill both games.
5. vs Punishing Jund (W 2-1)
6. vs Dredge (W 2-0)
7. vs RUG (L 0-2) - Mulled to 5 both games.
8. vs Affinity (W 2-0)

SCG Cincy 6-3
1. vs Miracles (W 2-0)
2. vs Merfolk (L 1-2) - Lost game 3 to mana flood.
3. vs Punishing Jund (2-0)
4. vs Jund (L 1-2) - Kept one landers both games :).
5. vs Miracles (W 2-0)
6. vs Shardless BUG (W 2-0)
7. vs Elves (L 0-2) - Turn 3/4 kill.
8. vs Reanimator (W 2-0)
9. vs ANT (W 2-0) - Killed himself game 1. Mindbreak trapped him game 2.

[Megadeus]

List?

[bakofried]

I think Eidolon of the Great Revel would be a natural fit here.

[zulander]

4-0 against miracles? Seems solid. How do you combat U/W TNN/SFM decks?

[CRich3]

My list is basically the RG aggro list from Modern. How I battle through TNN/SFM is never stop applying pressure. Sometimes I have to 2 for 1 myself to trade for Batterskull. But zoo is so much more efficient than UW that they have issues keeping up. Here are most things play out.

Turn 1
Me: Fetch (Taiga), Kird Ape
You: Flooded Strand (Tundra)

Turn 2:
Me; Fetch (Plateua) Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl: attack 4 (OPP 16)
You: Tundra, SFM (Batterskull) (OPP 15)

Turn 3:
Me: Land (any), Bolt (SFM): Attack (Opp 9): Goyf/Scavenging Ooze

At this point I could care less if buy opponent plays TNN because I have 4 creatures on board. If I have goyf he has to perm block him and take 7 down to 2. If I play anything anything he still takes 6-7 down to 2-3 which puts him in range of any top deck of bolt, chain lightning or price of progress. Not to include fetch lands and force of will are now dead cards. Only issue I have is getting mana flooded some games and keeping 1 landers because they look so good. Even though the deck has a bunch of 1 drops if you miss the next 2 land drops you may have lost. The deck has to apply pressure the first 3 turns of the game to win. Thinking of testing Vexing Devil because he is 4 damage for 1 mana.

Why I used the Modern list?
This deck doesn't work in modern because Kitchen Finks halts the deck. The card alone kills 3 cards, fortunately for us Kitchen Finks is bad in Legacy. Also Anger of the Gods kills the deck, but no one in legacy plays that.

[Bertrand Hustle]

My list is basically the RG aggro list from Modern. How I battle through TNN/SFM is never stop applying pressure. Sometimes I have to 2 for 1 myself to trade for Batterskull. But zoo is so much more efficient than UW that they have issues keeping up. Here are most things play out.

Turn 1
Me: Fetch (Taiga), Kird Ape
You: Flooded Strand (Tundra)

Turn 2:
Me; Fetch (Plateua) Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl: attack 4 (OPP 16)
You: Tundra, SFM (Batterskull) (OPP 15)

Turn 3:
Me: Land (any), Bolt (SFM): Attack (Opp 9): Goyf/Scavenging Ooze

At this point I could care less if buy opponent plays TNN because I have 4 creatures on board. If I have goyf he has to perm block him and take 7 down to 2. If I play anything anything he still takes 6-7 down to 2-3 which puts him in range of any top deck of bolt, chain lightning or price of progress. Not to include fetch lands and force of will are now dead cards. Only issue I have is getting mana flooded some games and keeping 1 landers because they look so good. Even though the deck has a bunch of 1 drops if you miss the next 2 land drops you may have lost. The deck has to apply pressure the first 3 turns of the game to win. Thinking of testing Vexing Devil because he is 4 damage for 1 mana.

Why I used the Modern list?
This deck doesn't work in modern because Kitchen Finks halts the deck. The card alone kills 3 cards, fortunately for us Kitchen Finks is bad in Legacy. Also Anger of the Gods kills the deck, but no one in legacy plays that.
I'd like to see the specific list. Particularly interested in your boarding!

[Chatto]

I'd like to see the specific list. Particularly interested in your boarding!

+1 that!

[CRich3]

Here is my list and how I board for each match. The SB wasn't that great but it did good enough.

Creatures: 26
4x Experiment One
4x Goblin Guide
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nacatl
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager

Spells: 15
3x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
2x Price of Progress
2x Sylvan Library

Lands: 19
1x Plains
1x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Windswept Heath
4x Arid Mesa
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Plateau
1x Savannah
3x Taiga

SB: 15
1x Path to Exile
2x Grafdiggers Cage
2x Price of Progress
2x Angient Grudge
2x Blind Obedience
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Qasali Pridgemage
3x Mindbreak Trap

SB Plans:

Vs Miracles
-3 Path to Exile
+2 Qasali Pridgemage
+1 Gaddock Teeg

vs all non-white 3 color decks not listed
w/ True-Name Nemesis
-1 Path to Exile
-1 Chain Lightning
+2 Price of Progress

w/o True-Name Nemeis
-3 Chain Lightning
+2 Price of Progress
+1 Path to Exile

vs SFM decks
-3 Path to Exile
-2 Tarmogoyf
-1 Scavenging Ooze
+2 Price of Progress
+2 Qasali Pridemage
+2 Ancient Grudge

vs Elves
-2 Price of Progress
-2 Sylvan LIbrary
+2 Blind Obedience
+2 Grafdiggers Cage

vs Storm
-3 Path to Exile
+3 Mindbreak Trap

vs Dredge and Reanimator
-2 Price of Progress
+2 Grafdiggers Cage

Weird Choice decisions:
1. Experiment One - This is probably one of the most underrated cards in the deck. One match vs Miracles this card traded for 2 Vendilion cliques. They must kill him early, swords him, or burn 2 removal spells to get rid of him. Multiple games I have gotten him to a 5/5
2. Ghor-Clan Rampager - Another underrated card that no one expects. I almost never play him as a creature, his bloodrush ability is to powerful since it can only be stifled. I only use his ability when they block or it kills them. Against reanimator I ran 2 Wild Nacatls and Goyf against Griselbrand. This card makes them have 0 profitable blocks.
3. Blind Obedience - This card just buys me extra turns. Since my whole game plan is to race, this makes it so creatures can't block the turn they come into play.
4. They SB vs SFM decks change sometimes, it really depends if they play Rest in Peace or not. I just don't want to lose tempo because they played RIP and I have goyfs in hand. Goyfs main purpose in this deck is to either stall other goyfs or batterskulls or to pump Experiment One. If he isn't doing one of this I will play every other creature in my hand first since 90% of decks have to trade 1 for 1.

Only reason I am playing zoo is because the majority of my meta right now is anti-combo decks. All those decks are slow and don't play around wasteland so Price of Progress is a game winning card. I use to have all Prices main board but I didn't want to have dead cards vs death and taxes and elves. Price is so good right now that it wins me games even when I don't draw it. If I play it game 1 people hold counters just incase I do draw which in turn lets more creatures get through.

[Megadeus]

Oddly enough, Price isn't completely terrible against Death and Taxes considering most of those decks run 10-14 non basics: 4 Waste, 4 Port, 2-4 Karakas, 1-2 Horizon Canopy, 0-1 Eiganjo Castle (I've seen it)

[Matsaya]

That is true, but usually wastlands are used as mania denial and not as lands. Therefore you can't expect that they will count for Price.

[zulander]

Council's Judgement is just what this deck was looking for. It's a bit pricey though at 1WW but worth it against TNN decks.
500

[Souleater734]

So I haven't played zoo in a while, I believe the last time. I plate it was when mental misstep was still legal. I decided to play it again recently because of nostalgia and I noticed one thing, it seems atleast imo, that zoo has lost it's niche. From my perspective delver is just the best early game deck out there, and maverick is a better midrange deck. Those have just been my observations after playing the deck for a couple days and I would interested in hearing other opinions.

[paradigm72]

3. Blind Obedience - This card just buys me extra turns. Since my whole game plan is to race, this makes it so creatures can't block the turn they come into play.


Do you find this better than Imposing Sovereign? I'd think the additional 2 power to the clock can make a difference in matches like Reanimator or Sneak and Show where you need to finish them very quickly before they take over the game. Being a creature could be a downside in matchups with lots of removal but I wouldn't think the card is a great board-in against those anyway.

[CRich3]

@zulander
-From my experience with zoo, I don't care about True-Name Nemesis. Only when they equip it, but that goes for any creature. Ancient Grudge is just more useful, or maybe Krosan Grip.

@Souleater734
-Besides storm, I don't think there is a better early game deck than Zoo. Yes turn 1 delver is great, but Zoo consistently kills turn 4-5. Wild Nacatl becomes a 3/3 more consistently than Delver and most creatures don't trade with Zoo's creatures. Maverick is a better midrange deck if you put these 2 against each other. But maverick right now has issues with Miracles and all the Deathrite Shamans. Zoo doesn't care about graveyard hate or anything in the miracles deck.

@paradigm72
-Its possible but Blind Obedience seemed more versatile since Storm needed an extra turn to go off with LED's and Lotus Petal. I never played vs Sneak and Show, but I play tested against reanimator after the tournament because beating it seemed to easy. Come to find out unless the reanimate Elesh Norm this is a very good match up.

[Souleater734]

So I've been playing punishing zoo for the past couple days to reasonable succes.

1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Plateau
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
2 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Qasali Pridemage

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

The deck is really similar to Shawn Yu's deck from SCG Seattle in October http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=2013-10-20&end_date=2013-10-20&start=1&finish=16&city=Seattle. I think the major differences are Flamespeaker over Knight of the Reliquary, Birds over Hierarch (only because of Flamespeaker) and the stoneforge mystic package over GSZ. It's been playing pretty well against stonebalde, D&T, bug, stuff like that. I have yet to test it against combo but hopefully the hatebears in the sb can help. So far the sideboard is still a mess.

SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Aegis of the Gods
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Thalia
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgement

[Fatal]

Give me good reason to play Birds of Paradise over hierarch in aggressive deck, specially running creatures with double strike, and nacatl.

[Souleater734]

Birds is to help with the RR part of flamespeaker, I tried heirarch but a lot of the time I couldn't get the second red because of wastelands or just not drawing lands.

[Slag]

So I've been playing punishing zoo for the past couple days to reasonable succes.

1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Plateau
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
2 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Qasali Pridemage

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

The deck is really similar to Shawn Yu's deck from SCG Seattle in October http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=2013-10-20&end_date=2013-10-20&start=1&finish=16&city=Seattle. I think the major differences are Flamespeaker over Knight of the Reliquary, Birds over Hierarch (only because of Flamespeaker) and the stoneforge mystic package over GSZ. It's been playing pretty well against stonebalde, D&T, bug, stuff like that. I have yet to test it against combo but hopefully the hatebears in the sb can help. So far the sideboard is still a mess.

SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Aegis of the Gods
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Thalia
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgement

I'm not saying it is a road you should go down, nor am I suggesting what to cut for it, but every time I look at a 1/3 creature, I think about how much better it would be wearing a rancor.

[Megadeus]

Flame speaker is interesting. Not sure how good he is, but losing hierarch makes me like him a lot less. That said I haven't tested him, just voicing my opinions.

Also I always thought rancor was very close to being playable, and I'm sure as a one or two of, it's probably fine in a more creature heavy version

[Souleater734]

Updated List (As of 6/12)
1 Mana Confluence
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Bayou
3 Savannah
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Qasaili Pridemage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Wild Nacalt

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant

SB
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Rest in Peace
1 Choke
1 Sylvan Library
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Council's Judgement

MD Changes:
-1 Forest
-2 Verdant Catacombs
+2 Wasteland
+1 Mana Confluence
SB Changes:
-1 Ethersworn Canonist
-1 Thalia
-1 Pithing Needle
-1 Aegis of the Gods
+1 Choke
+1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
+1 Council's Judgement
+1 Rest in Peace

So birds wasn't working out and I needed a way to cast RR with acceleration without 2 red duals in play and I decided on Deathrite Shaman which has been great. Flamespeaker has been insane so far in testing, 1 hit from him really swings the game in your favor. Flamespeaker can also provide a reasonable clock, I got a t4 kill against ANT today with t1 DRS t2 flamespeaker t3 elspeth pump t4 pump again. I generally like the main deck configuration except for the distribution of dual lands. I also don't know what black dual I should be using but Bayou can be fetched with all the duals I'm currently using. So I cut the forest for mana confluence, which I don't know is correct, I tried karakas but mana was awkward. I also tried cavern of souls but I was always wanting to name human with it to keep the mana so I wanted something more versatile and confluence has been fine so far. Elspeth has been amazing against decks like shardless bug and jund as a big threat and can help out card advantage jund by producing a bunch of bodies. The sideboard has been fine though the distribution of hatebears is weird but has been fine, I'm running eidolon over the second canonist because I don't want to be as exposed to massacre and would rather have my storm hate contribute to the clock, which is the reason why I have it over rule of law. I could see running rule of law over eidolon if toxic deluge ever becomes really common in storm sideboards, but as of now I haven't seen it. I've been considering moving the second sylvan library into the main as a 61st card to free up some sideboard space, though so far it has been fine in the board, though there is a lot that I want to jam into 15 cards. I haven't played miracles, which is obviously what the choke is for but I think it is worth having. I tested Thrun briefly though it served the same purpose as elspeth but elspeth has been better. Council's Judgement is definitely good in the board and having an out to TNN besides pyroblast is definitely awesome. I also really like the ratchet bomb since it counts as dredge hate (which I have 6 pieces of dredge hate including the e-tutors) and it is also great when TES tries to go off through empty since they usually don't expect it, it's also gave me 1 or 2 wins against belcher when they weren't expecting it so there's that. I have been wanting another way to fight over equipment, whether it be manriki-gusari or one or two disenchant effects. Combo has been reasonably challenging, as expected. I have played against a lot of storm though no show and tell so the hatebears have been really nice at giving me the chance to beat storm. I haven't been running any hate for show and tell because when I ran multiple oblivion rings and pithing needles I was still losing so I have just been accepting my losses and moving on. I like the deck a lot so far but am really hoping to dodge show and tell.

[zulander]

That list is not Zoo, not at all. It's more of a Deadguy Ale spinoff than a zoo spinoff.


I'm really interested to see if anyone is playing any Borros Charms in the board for Miracles matchups. Anyone have any experience with it?

[zulander]

So I put this list together but need help with the 60th card .

Mana: 20
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

Spells: 16
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress
2 Council's Judgment

Creatures: 23
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Spirit of the Labrynth


Ideas: Sylvan Library, 4th PoP, 3rd Council's Judgment, Jitte, Bloodbraid Elf, Ghor-Clan Rampager, etc... I want something that adds value as a singleton so I'm leaning towards Sylvan or Jitte. Any thoughts?

[aluisiocsantos]

Sylvan is counterproductive with SotL..so maybe Jitte, but you lose 4 manas to make it worth though... I'd go with either 4th POP or maybe try Mirri's Guile, no?

[ironclad8690]

That list is not Zoo, not at all. It's more of a Deadguy Ale spinoff than a zoo spinoff.


I'm really interested to see if anyone is playing any Borros Charms in the board for Miracles matchups. Anyone have any experience with it?

I tried boros charm, but it wasn't effective enough as most of their removal is exiling/bottom of library'ing.

I have had better luck with pithing needle/phyrexian revoker, choke, gaddock teeg, and pyroblast against miracles.

[Souleater734]

That list is not Zoo, not at all. It's more of a Deadguy Ale spinoff than a zoo spinoff.

How is this related to dead guy ale? I realize this is very different from traditional zoo, but the comparison to dead guy ale seems very loose. I can maybe see comparing it to maverick but this is very different from both, and this deck resembles other punishing zoo decks more closely than any other deck in the format that I know of.

[zulander]

How is this related to dead guy ale? I realize this is very different from traditional zoo, but the comparison to dead guy ale seems very loose. I can maybe see comparing it to maverick but this is very different from both, and this deck resembles other punishing zoo decks more closely than any other deck in the format that I know of.

I can see the Maverick comparisons as well, but as you said it doesn't really have a home there either. I don't think it can be considered Zoo due to the conflicting fundamental principles of Zoo.

[CRich3]

I think I am going to play Zoo again this weekend at SCG columbus, since I was a few points short of playing in the Invitationals. I've made some SB changes, now I just auto lose to Sneak and Show but my storm match up and Elves match up should be better (i.e. Eidolon of the Great Reveal). I will let you know how I do.

[Megadeus]

That didnt happen to be you playing for an outside shot at T8 would it?

[CRich3]

Nope, I didn't make it in time so I couldn't play :(. I would never play Burning-Tree Emissary either lol.

[Patrunkenphat7]

That didnt happen to be you playing for an outside shot at T8 would it?

That was my deck - threw it together morning of from a pile of Modern cards, and my friend ran it for his first large Legacy tournament. He did quite well and got 2 camera matches!

[lordofthepit]

I was definitely rooting for the Zoo player.

I got demolished by a fast Zoo deck while playing Miracles last week. That was probably the happiest I ever was to lose a match.

[afb0032]

That was my deck - threw it together morning of from a pile of Modern cards, and my friend ran it for his first large Legacy tournament. He did quite well and got 2 camera matches!

Congrats to him on the camera matches and good run. Would it be possible to post a decklist/a short tournament write up from him? I'm curious to see what the list was and what he faced during the day.

[Patrunkenphat7]

He isn't really into the forum scene, but I'll post his list:

4 Experiment One
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
3 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Ghor-clan Rampager

1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Wasteland

SB
4 Ashen Rider
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ancient Grudge

Yes, that's 11 Gatecrash cards. He played against 7 Delver variants, a Stoneblade deck, a Miracles deck, and Sneak and Show. He said if he had more time to plan the list, he would have put 2 Path to Exile in the SB over a couple of the Mindbreak Traps. He said the Horizon Canopies were MVPs because they helped with mana flood. He also won a game against Sneak and Show with the singleton Wasteland which is sick.

[Megadeus]

7 delver variants? Miserable

[ironclad8690]

7 delver variants? Miserable

Hm, when I played "Old-Fast-Zoo" delver was a pretty easy match. I guess not having path is a liability here as Tarmogoyf can be a real kink in your plan. Luckily patriot is on the decline, and that is the worst delver variant to face as a fair deck IMO.

[Megadeus]

It's not necessarily a bad MU. Just miserable as in, un-fun

[zulander]

4 Ashen Rider lolol

[Olaf Forkbeard]

4 Ashen Rider lolol

Don't knock it, it is solid hate. First time they Show and Tell they lose. Second time they don't Show and Tell and wait for Sneak Attack-- which is great. You can buy a turn by simply having a card in the board that they are aware of. But then again I'm a Goblins player. Combo match-ups are miserable.

[Souleater734]

Don't knock it, it is solid hate. First time they Show and Tell they lose. Second time they don't Show and Tell and wait for Sneak Attack-- which is great. You can buy a turn by simply having a card in the board that they are aware of. But then again I'm a Goblins player. Combo match-ups are miserable.

My opinion is that if the matchup is that bad that you bring in cards like ashen rider in a zoo deck or something of that nature then you should just except your losses to the deck and use your sideboard more effectively. Also if sneak and show is extremely popular, like it was last year, than you should probably play a deck that has a better chance against it. That being said I would much rather use the slots for oblivion rings, or if you have them, I know they are a lot more expensive now, 1 or 2 copies of karakas. Karakas has the upside of being randomly useful in a lot of situation and sometimes you can sandbag a plains to protect hate bears from massacre with a karakas in play, and it is realistic to actually cast oblivion ring, though ashen rider has the upside of being a clock and exiles regardless if they have bounce spells.

[Exuberance]

I'm no Legacy Zoo expert, but I have a lot of fun with Wild Nacatl in Modern, and I really want to play Zoo at a Legacy event.

Why doesn't anybody play Hidden Herd? It's basically four more Nacatls.

A list, theorized off the top of my head:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Hidden Herd
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain

3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Price of Progress
2 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile
2 Grafdigger's Cage

I don't know good it is but it seems like a lot of fun, and it probably just puts people on the back foot way too fast. The sideboard is a hot mess, but I made it in like, thirty seconds. I definitely like Teeg and Price tho.

[aluisiocsantos]

I've played Hidden Herd before and while it's an apparently awesome card (plus Tarmogoyf food) it's a terrible late draw.

the list looks sick tho! I'd exchange Helixes for Price of Progress though! So much damage value right now!

[zulander]

I'm playing a similar list but not hidden herd, it doesn't help in the problem matchups the deck has (namely control) since they play enough basics that it can get around turning it on.

I also play 4 Spirit of the Labyrinth to help against all of the problem matchups since it's aggressive enough to help as well. I don't like playing burn in the board either. Here's what I've got so far:
//lands 20
9 fetches
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
3 Basics
1 karakas

//creatures 26
3 Grim
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goyf
4 Spirit
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

//booooom 14
4 Bolt
4 Chain
3 Path
3 Price of Progress

//board
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Pithing Needle
2 Council's Judgment
1 Oblivion Ring
3 random slots like ethersworn cannonist, surgical extraction (really good against miracles) planewalkers etc...

[Megadeus]

Been testing out a Dark Zoo build. Went 3-1-1 this week with it and have since changed my list up a bit.

4 Death rite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Daybreak Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Vindicate
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt

2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodtsained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
1 Choke
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Slaughter Games
2 Red Blast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution

The SB is kind of a mess. Having so many angles of attack was very nice. And Sorin is a beast. Getting Access to Thoughtseize was also great.

[nedleeds]

Stomping Ground technology vs. extirpate effects ... sweet.

[Megadeus]

Stomping Ground technology vs. extirpate effects ... sweet.

Yeah the deck can't operate at all without a RG land, so I decided to hedge

[Megadeus]

Went 3-1 with the dark zoo deck again tonight. Lost to Jund, beat Sneaky Show, GB Depths, and 4 Color delver. Turns out main deck Spirit of the lab is good versus blue.

Jund is tough with their PFires and such. Any advice on that MU? Seems like a poor one.

Drew all 4 Thoughtseizes vs Sneaky Show in game 2. Drew enough hate between TS and REB to keep him on the back foot and he had to blow a couple of BS in response to a spirit of the lab just to gain value off of them in G3.

Lingering Souls bought me enough time in the GB Depths MU to find a RIP while they got to be defensive vs Lage.

Also Sorin continues to impress. I even got to ultimate him vs delver. He scooped before I took his Pyromancer and 2 Deathrites. G2 Smiter plus Nacatl raced his TNN backed by double Bolt which in response to lethal bolt I STP'd my own Daybreak to go to 1 and hit back for lethal.

[nedleeds]

Jund is tough with their PFires and such. Any advice on that MU? Seems like a poor one.


Mark of Asylum. Also interesting is Mark of Asylum and Aegis vs. burn. Internet Jund does have a ton of removal ... maybe a couple of higher end creatures that don't die to decay or bolt/punish like Wilt-Leaf Liege. Polluted your awful manabase even further and play Geist.

[Pellefant]

I've been playing this deck to decent results recently:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Loam Lion
3 Grim Lavamancer (These were Experiment One at first, didn't like them so I tested other options, kird ape etc. Lavamancer feels like the best though.)
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage

4 Ghor-Clan Rampager (this card, seriously, crazy good)

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix (I like this over PoP, we need to be able to burn creatures and lifegain is icing on the cake with Sylvan.)
2 Path to Exile

3 Sylvan Library (gas all the time)


I've played it in 4 tournaments this summer:

First, 4-0 (27 players, swiss only). Wins vs goblins, miracles, bant/maverick hybrid and D&T with black splash.

Second, 4-0 (16 players, swiss only) Wins vs Enchantress, some kind of UW fish/stoneblade and 2 x storm combo (1 ANT, 1 TES).

Third, (50-ish players, 6 rounds + top 8) 4-1-ID in the swiss. Wins vs grixis delver, elves, UWr countertop stoneblade and belcher(!). Loss vs shardless BUG. In top 8 I lost a close match vs BUG tempo.

(I've also scrubbed out in one smaller swiss tournament (15 players) 2-2. Win vs Dredge & budget reanimator. Loss vs miracles & elves.


The sb has varied a bit, and I've tested lots and lots of cards , but this has kind of been the base:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Krosan Grip

That leaves 4 open slots in which I've played some different stuff including but not limited to; +1 Path, Tormod's Crypt, Thrun, the Last Troll, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, REB, +1 Mindbreak Trap, Sulfuric Vortex, Swords to Plowshares, Price of Progress, Scavenging Ooze (sucked!) and Domri Rade (sucked!).

I like this list quite a bit in the current meta, since at least in Sweden the popularity of both Show and Tell and Snapcaster/Stoneblade control decks has decreased dramatically lately. (Those are the main decks responsible of the decline of zoo, imo.)

Null Rod is a BEAST in the sideboard btw.

[lordofthepit]

I've been playing this deck to decent results recently:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Loam Lion
3 Grim Lavamancer (These were Experiment One at first, didn't like them so I tested other options, kird ape etc. Lavamancer feels like the best though.)
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage

4 Ghor-Clan Rampager (this card, seriously, crazy good)

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix (I like this over PoP, we need to be able to burn creatures and lifegain is icing on the cake with Sylvan.)
2 Path to Exile

3 Sylvan Library (gas all the time)


I've played it in 4 tournaments this summer:

First, 4-0 (27 players, swiss only). Wins vs goblins, miracles, bant/maverick hybrid and D&T with black splash.

Second, 4-0 (16 players, swiss only) Wins vs Enchantress, some kind of UW fish/stoneblade and 2 x storm combo (1 ANT, 1 TES).

Third, (50-ish players, 6 rounds + top 8) 4-1-ID in the swiss. Wins vs grixis delver, elves, UWr countertop stoneblade and belcher(!). Loss vs shardless BUG. In top 8 I lost a close match vs BUG tempo.

(I've also scrubbed out in one smaller swiss tournament (15 players) 2-2. Win vs Dredge & budget reanimator. Loss vs miracles & elves.


The sb has varied a bit, and I've tested lots and lots of cards , but this has kind of been the base:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Krosan Grip

That leaves 4 open slots in which I've played some different stuff including but not limited to; +1 Path, Tormod's Crypt, Thrun, the Last Troll, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, REB, +1 Mindbreak Trap, Sulfuric Vortex, Swords to Plowshares, Price of Progress, Scavenging Ooze (sucked!) and Domri Rade (sucked!).

I like this list quite a bit in the current meta, since at least in Sweden the popularity of both Show and Tell and Snapcaster/Stoneblade control decks has decreased dramatically lately. (Those are the main decks responsible of the decline of zoo, imo.)

Null Rod is a BEAST in the sideboard btw.

Awesome update. I'm glad you're having success with Zoo still!

[Vandalize]

Awesome update. I'm glad you're having success with Zoo still!

I'm more than glad, I'm impressed. I don't have a clue how Zoo is winning without Price of Progress.

@Pellefant
I agree, Null Rod has been really awesome. The main problem with this deck, is that our only option against TNN is trampling over with GCR.

Why Loam Lion stead of Kird Ape? Fetching Savannah might feel weird with 3 Grim Lavamancers in the deck. Kird Ape works fine with Taiga, by far the most fetched land in this deck.

Why no Price of Progress? They should be somewhere in the 75, at least 2~3-of in your 4 remaining slots in the sideboard, I think. A lot of decks are three-colored (maybe four-colored, when they splash green for Deathrite Shaman).

@Thread

Thrun has been nothing but stellar with all these Miracles floating around. Just bait 1~2 Terminus with your other critters, drop Thrun and win.

My latest list:

Lands [20]
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Winswepth Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy

Creatures [25]
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Ghor-Clan Rampanger
3 Qasali Pridemage

Spells [15]
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
2 Path to Exile

Sideboard [15]
2 Thrun, the last Troll
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Path to Exile
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry

Has been working fine. I've struggled a bit against Show and Tell and Jund, but I guess that's fine, they're bad matchups.

[zulander]

Here's my report from SCG:Dallas this past weekend. Would love to hear some feedback!

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28412-Zu-with-Zoo-43rd-at-SCG-Dallas-Report&p=826733#post826733

[Pellefant]

@Vandalize

I feel like Loam Lion makes the plains and horizon canopy slightly more useful and (basic plains is often as bad as a colorless land). Don't know if this reasoning is correct but I like it so far. I often fetch Plateau -> Loam lion turn 1 and then taiga turn 2 if I have a hand with many red cards or that needs double red turn 2.

Regarding Price of Progress I just don't think it does enough. A skilled opponent can play around it most of the time and I'd much rather play a burn spell that can kill stuff like Deathrite Shaman. Only time I'd really want it is vs shardless BUG, Jund, and stuff like that but in my meta those decks aren't common enough to warrant PoP right now. Also, I'd rather spend my life drawing extra cards with Sylvan Library :)

[Vandalize]

@Vandalize

I feel like Loam Lion makes the plains and horizon canopy slightly more useful and (basic plains is often as bad as a colorless land). Don't know if this reasoning is correct but I like it so far. I often fetch Plateau -> Loam lion turn 1 and then taiga turn 2 if I have a hand with many red cards or that needs double red turn 2.

Regarding Price of Progress I just don't think it does enough. A skilled opponent can play around it most of the time and I'd much rather play a burn spell that can kill stuff like Deathrite Shaman. Only time I'd really want it is vs shardless BUG, Jund, and stuff like that but in my meta those decks aren't common enough to warrant PoP right now. Also, I'd rather spend my life drawing extra cards with Sylvan Library :)

I play Karakas instead of Plains. While they both produce white mana, Karakas can still be useful in bad matchups. Wasteland might be a problem, but if they waste my Karakas instead of my Taiga, I'm not that sad.

About Price of Progress, that's a meta call, fair enough. But with all that 3-color decks that are splashing a fourth color for DRS, it makes PoP really attractive. RUG/BUG/bRUG/UWRPatriot/Esperblade/Junk/Jund/Lands are all common tier matchups, and they all die horribly (except for RUG).

[Sergi]

Why not use Big zoo variants in order to compensate the current metagame?

We can put aggressive mode with Nactl, lightnings, punishing fires... meanwhile controling threats. Beast within can be used for clearing the path or in more aggresive mode, destroying one of our lands for the 3/3 beast.
Fighting creatures with tracker or domri clear the path, and a big kavu helps in that. The same with scavenging ooze or even Knight.
The amount or removal is enough for the Ux lists (they don't use more than 12 creatures, that die to all our removal)

For combo, we can SB Thalia, REB or Ethersworn Canonist.

This is the list that I'm currently testing (sideboard is still under construction)

Lands [23]
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Grove of the burnwillows
2 Wasteland
2 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Karakas
1 Plains

Creatures [17]
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf (currently using kavu predator. Can be bigger tan goyf and go trought true name nemesis, combos with pfire and swords...)
2 Scvenging ooze
4 Knight of the reliquary
1 Ulvenwald tracker
1 Sylvan safekeeper
1 Scryb ranger


Spells [21]
4 Punishing Fire
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to plowshares (good with kavu)
2 Beast within
2 Sylvan Library
3 Green sun's zenith
1 Domri Rade
1 Ajani vengeant (helps in clearing threats and vs miracles, removing their lands if you reach)


Sideboard [15] to be completed
1 Thrun, the last Troll
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Bonfire of the dammed (testing vs miracles, elves...)

Sorry for my english

[Qweerios]

Why doesn't Zoo use Council's Judgment instead of Sword/Path? Burn tends to handle every creature in this format and an Exalted/Ghor'd/Rancored Goyf beats another any day.

[Megadeus]

Because three mana? Also double white.

Anyone else think the 6 drop 4/4 trample delve man can fit somewhere?

[Emo]

Because three mana? Also double white.

Anyone else think the 6 drop 4/4 trample delve man can fit somewhere?

I have been play testing it in RUG and he seems to fit quite nicely in place of Mongoose, Maybe a blue zoo version could utilize him best- I am just spitballing here

[Megadeus]

I have been play testing it in RUG and he seems to fit quite nicely in place of Mongoose, Maybe a blue zoo version could utilize him best- I am just spitballing here

Seems kind of meh. Isn't the reason Goose is so good is due to his shroud? Losing that seems poor unless you are in a meta where no one plays spot removal.

Edit: Sorry somewhat off topic.


Might try to brew up a zoo list sometime today for this guy and maybe try him out at some point for fun. Unfortunately said theoretical list I think is playing Probe right now so I can't play any Spirit of the Labyrinth...

[Bobmans]

Adding this new green creature doesn't make Zoo a better deck than it is at this point.

[Myelectronicdays]

Been testing out a Dark Zoo build. Went 3-1-1 this week with it and have since changed my list up a bit.

4 Death rite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Daybreak Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Vindicate
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt

2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodtsained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
1 Choke
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Slaughter Games
2 Red Blast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution

The SB is kind of a mess. Having so many angles of attack was very nice. And Sorin is a beast. Getting Access to Thoughtseize was also great.

I dig the dark zoo list.. does it seem too slow? getting in the mid game worries me more as a list.. since i guess it kind of plays like jund in some ways. I may give it a whirl at next weeks legacy event. i do like the lists with ghor clans also though.. hrm.

[starchild]

Hi!

I am updating some of my older Legacy lists. I need some help and suggestions to a Zoo deck (see below). I would like it to be a most optimal Faster Zoo "One Drop" deck with cards that are available today. Should I make place for Experiment One in the deck? Can not find what I should cut then. I see that some use Price of Progress, should I take that in? A little more information, I play in a semi-competive environment, all kinds of decks are represented in the Aggro, Control and Combo categories. Any help will be highly appreciated. Many thanks in advance!

Creature [23]
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Instant [12]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile

Sorcery [4]
4 Chain Lightning

Enchantment [1]
1 Sylvan Library

Land [20]
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Leyline of Sanctity
15 cards

[Megadeus]

I dig the dark zoo list.. does it seem too slow? getting in the mid game worries me more as a list.. since i guess it kind of plays like jund in some ways. I may give it a whirl at next weeks legacy event. i do like the lists with ghor clans also though.. hrm.

yeah the deck ended up being basically jund with hate bears and nacatl. It was dead guy zoo or something. The deck actually wasnt horrible. The thing about the mid game was that a 3/3 is still decent game. There were secondly things that could've been changed though

[starchild]

[QUOTE=starchild;834175]Hi!

I am updating some of my older Legacy lists. I need some help and suggestions to a Zoo deck (see below). I would like it to be a most optimal Faster Zoo "One Drop" deck with cards that are available today. Should I make place for Experiment One in the deck? Can not find what I should cut then. I see that some use Price of Progress, should I take that in? A little more information, I play in a semi-competive environment, all kinds of decks are represented in the Aggro, Control and Combo categories. Any help will be highly appreciated. Many thanks in advance!


Price of progress gives me ridiculous results. I recommend at least boarding it. I hit for 6-10 often with it, I'll take 2-4, usually 4. game ending cardYeah, great card, Price of Progress :) Easy to see that is should be there, more difficult to find what to cut ;) I hope for some more advice what the deck should look like in the end as a Faster Zoo deck. Please give me your advice experienced and great Zoo players! :)

[Megadeus]

I think I'm going to try out an Eidelon List. Here's a rough draft:

4 Wild Nacatl

4 Eidelon of the Great Revel

4 Noble Hierarch

3 Qasali Pridemage

3 Loxodon Smiter

3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben


4 Path to Exile

4 Lightning Bolt

4 Chain Lightning

2 Sylvan Library

1 Umezawas Jitte


21 Land

[lordofthepit]

As a long time Zoo player who now plays Miracles as his primary deck, I suggest you guys rock some Gaddock Teegs if you care about the Miracles matchup. There is no single factor more important in this matchup than your ability to stick a Teeg, and spot removal is pretty spread pretty thin in this matchup from the Miracles perspective.

[aluisiocsantos]

I think Null Rod could greatly improve the matchup in some cases Zoo has trouble, such as dealing with equipments in Stoneforge decks, Sensei Spinning Top for Miracles and random Sneak Show decks who run it, vs Painter.. But I guess you can't use equipments yourself if you do it.

I've been thinking about the Eidolon as well. I wonder how's his sinergy with Thalia though.

[Megadeus]

Yeah I really like eidelon here. The only thing I'm worried about is the mana working. Maybe in the list I posted last page I'll replace main board Thalia with teeg since Thalia and eidelon are both good against the same decks

Maybe spirit of the labyrinth somewhere in here too actually. Dammit. Zoo has so many tools to work with. Why can't we make it work?

[zulander]

Yeah I really like eidelon here. The only thing I'm worried about is the mana working. Maybe in the list I posted last page I'll replace main board Thalia with teeg since Thalia and eidelon are both good against the same decks

Maybe spirit of the labyrinth somewhere in here too actually. Dammit. Zoo has so many tools to work with. Why can't we make it work?

I have been able to make it work except against UW control. I've tried a few changes to my list to help against UW. Here's what I'll be playing this weekend:


//Mana: 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Mountain
1 Forest

//Creatures: 25
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

//Other: 15
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
3 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Sylvan Library

//Sideboard: 15
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Electrickery
2 Council's Judgment



I've been playing super aggressive, even attacking with Lavamancers turn 2 if I have GCR in hand. Doing so makes the MD Vortex feel like a finisher, especially against Batterskul.dec

The board is pretty interesting, with the focus on combo (I'm actually 7-0 against combo if not better). Electrickery helps against the x/1 decks (UR, DnT, Elves).

CoP:Red is just the stone cold nuts against burn, and if you can race them game one (not too difficult) you can catch them off guard with it since they wont board in the pithing needles.

Council's Judgement is for the TNN.dec as well as SnT.

MBT/Canonist/Teeg all come in against storm combo (Canonist for elves), and Cage also comes in against PiF combo, making the deck have a total of 13 hate cards for the deck in g2/3.

I've still got some testing to do, and have thought of playing around with Voice of Resurgence since Treasure Cruise.dec seems to be on the rise.

[danpo]

I had a daydream where Zoo was awesome against a meta of Delvers, Monastery Swiftspears, Pyromancers, Deathrites and Moms. I figured I'd play lots and lots of stuff that killed these things, and also meow at my opponent during the attack step.

The original version of this daydream actually also involved playing Elvish/Simian Spirit Guide so as to power out faster hatebears (Aven Mindcensor was on the list) and I also at one point considered a Maverick-esque package involving GSZ and KotR. In the end though, I went the least-fancy/most run-screaming-directly-at-the-opponent's-face route and sleeved this up:

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
3 Wasteland
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills

SB: 4 Oblivion Ring, 4 Pithing Needle, 4 Leyline of Sanctity, 3 Electrickery

The sideboard is basically a tiny poem I wrote about hating Sneak&Show and also Miracles and just just things. It has zero rational basis so don't even try.

-- Round one:

My opponent is playing RUG Delver with Treasure Cruise and Young Pyromancer in lieu of Nimble Mongoose.

Game one I am able to throw lots of burn around and carve in with a Tarmogoyf and Wild Nacatl. He eventually manages to Treasure Cruise and says G-Goyf ya (2x), but by this point has fallen to three and I topdeck burn.

Game two he has back to back Treasure Cruise and I draw an Electrickery that is worthless when I need to kill a flipped Delver, life sux.

Game three I see a one-land seven, no-land six and five, mull to four. My opponent then Wastes my Taiga and THEN HITS IT WITH SURGICAL EXTRACTION W436SE5RYDTUCGVHKJB

I scoop to Pyroclasm killing my 1/1 Kird Ape and Pridemage. Argh

-- Round two:

My opponent is known for saucy and unique brews centered on a theme of Reanimator and he does not disappoint.

Game one I get out a lot of fast dudes: Nacatl, Spirit of the Labyrinth and Tarmogoyf. My opponent has a fast Gristlebrand which, despite being a 7/7 lifelink, thanks to Spirit it cannot draw him cards. So I'm thinking: my opponent has already taken some beats, and if he tries to race me, I'm holding not one but two copies of Lightning Helix and might be able to bend the math in my favor, especially if I topdeck still more burn or a Path to Exile. Sure, my opponent's combo happened, but nothing is fucked here man, nothing is fucked! Maaaiiintaaaiiin.

So, this is when my opponent taps both his lands and plays Engineered Explosives X=2. My Goyf and Spirit are both very clearly going to die next turn and life sux. :(

But but but wait! On my turn I topdeck Path to Exile! I can kill his Gristlebrand, smash in for ten and sit pretty with two pieces of burn in my hand, right?! Wrong. My opponent is holding Misdirection. He redirects my Path to Nacatl. Mreeooow. Life sux.

Game two involved Pack Rat and me drawing back to back Paths and grinding my opponent down to three while sitting on an Oblivion Ring on the assumption he'd boarded in Show & Tell as an answer to graveyard hate I didn't actually have. Apparently Gaddock Teeg was keeping him off a Treasure Cruise for quite awhile but the turn before I finished the job he found an Exhume and wiped my board with Elesh Norn; life sux.

Then I went home and drank a beer. The end.

[Richard Cheese]

I had a daydream where Zoo was awesome against a meta of Delvers, Monastery Swiftspears, Pyromancers, Deathrites and Moms. I figured I'd play lots and lots of stuff that killed these things, and also meow at my opponent during the attack step.

The original version of this daydream actually also involved playing Elvish/Simian Spirit Guide so as to power out faster hatebears (Aven Mindcensor was on the list) and I also at one point considered a Maverick-esque package involving GSZ and KotR. In the end though, I went the least-fancy/most run-screaming-directly-at-the-opponent's-face route and sleeved this up:

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
3 Wasteland
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills

SB: 4 Oblivion Ring, 4 Pithing Needle, 4 Leyline of Sanctity, 3 Electrickery

The sideboard is basically a tiny poem I wrote about hating Sneak&Show and also Miracles and just just things. It has zero rational basis so don't even try.

-- Round one:

My opponent is playing RUG Delver with Treasure Cruise and Young Pyromancer in lieu of Nimble Mongoose.

Game one I am able to throw lots of burn around and carve in with a Tarmogoyf and Wild Nacatl. He eventually manages to Treasure Cruise and says G-Goyf ya (2x), but by this point has fallen to three and I topdeck burn.

Game two he has back to back Treasure Cruise and I draw an Electrickery that is worthless when I need to kill a flipped Delver, life sux.

Game three I see a one-land seven, no-land six and five, mull to four. My opponent then Wastes my Taiga and THEN HITS IT WITH SURGICAL EXTRACTION W436SE5RYDTUCGVHKJB

I scoop to Pyroclasm killing my 1/1 Kird Ape and Pridemage. Argh

-- Round two:

My opponent is known for saucy and unique brews centered on a theme of Reanimator and he does not disappoint.

Game one I get out a lot of fast dudes: Nacatl, Spirit of the Labyrinth and Tarmogoyf. My opponent has a fast Gristlebrand which, despite being a 7/7 lifelink, thanks to Spirit it cannot draw him cards. So I'm thinking: my opponent has already taken some beats, and if he tries to race me, I'm holding not one but two copies of Lightning Helix and might be able to bend the math in my favor, especially if I topdeck still more burn or a Path to Exile. Sure, my opponent's combo happened, but nothing is fucked here man, nothing is fucked! Maaaiiintaaaiiin.

So, this is when my opponent taps both his lands and plays Engineered Explosives X=2. My Goyf and Spirit are both very clearly going to die next turn and life sux. :(

But but but wait! On my turn I topdeck Path to Exile! I can kill his Gristlebrand, smash in for ten and sit pretty with two pieces of burn in my hand, right?! Wrong. My opponent is holding Misdirection. He redirects my Path to Nacatl. Mreeooow. Life sux.

Game two involved Pack Rat and me drawing back to back Paths and grinding my opponent down to three while sitting on an Oblivion Ring on the assumption he'd boarded in Show & Tell as an answer to graveyard hate I didn't actually have. Apparently Gaddock Teeg was keeping him off a Treasure Cruise for quite awhile but the turn before I finished the job he found an Exhume and wiped my board with Elesh Norn; life sux.

Then I went home and drank a beer. The end.

Why would you run Kird Ape over Goblin Guide or Swiftspear in that spot?

[danpo]

Why would you run Kird Ape over Goblin Guide or Swiftspear in that spot?

Habit, I guess? The last time I can remember playing Zoo was more than two years ago, and I was hungover and literally layed down on the vile carpet of a comic shop in Tennessee on my way to going 5-0. Make of that what you will.

But also Kird Ape was a last-minute audible after I decided to not get fancy with some mixture of KotR/GSZ/SFM. I think that Kird Ape shrugs off Forked Bolt was also appealing in my imagination while I was busy decidedly failing to optimize the above list yesterday. Anyway yeah does that answer your question?

[Demonic_Attorney]

I had a daydream where Zoo was awesome against a meta of Delvers, Monastery Swiftspears, Pyromancers, Deathrites and Moms. I figured I'd play lots and lots of stuff that killed these things, and also meow at my opponent during the attack step.

The original version of this daydream actually also involved playing Elvish/Simian Spirit Guide so as to power out faster hatebears (Aven Mindcensor was on the list) and I also at one point considered a Maverick-esque package involving GSZ and KotR. In the end though, I went the least-fancy/most run-screaming-directly-at-the-opponent's-face route and sleeved this up:

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
3 Wasteland
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills

SB: 4 Oblivion Ring, 4 Pithing Needle, 4 Leyline of Sanctity, 3 Electrickery

The sideboard is basically a tiny poem I wrote about hating Sneak&Show and also Miracles and just just things. It has zero rational basis so don't even try.

-- Round one:

My opponent is playing RUG Delver with Treasure Cruise and Young Pyromancer in lieu of Nimble Mongoose.

Game one I am able to throw lots of burn around and carve in with a Tarmogoyf and Wild Nacatl. He eventually manages to Treasure Cruise and says G-Goyf ya (2x), but by this point has fallen to three and I topdeck burn.

Game two he has back to back Treasure Cruise and I draw an Electrickery that is worthless when I need to kill a flipped Delver, life sux.

Game three I see a one-land seven, no-land six and five, mull to four. My opponent then Wastes my Taiga and THEN HITS IT WITH SURGICAL EXTRACTION W436SE5RYDTUCGVHKJB

I scoop to Pyroclasm killing my 1/1 Kird Ape and Pridemage. Argh

-- Round two:

My opponent is known for saucy and unique brews centered on a theme of Reanimator and he does not disappoint.

Game one I get out a lot of fast dudes: Nacatl, Spirit of the Labyrinth and Tarmogoyf. My opponent has a fast Gristlebrand which, despite being a 7/7 lifelink, thanks to Spirit it cannot draw him cards. So I'm thinking: my opponent has already taken some beats, and if he tries to race me, I'm holding not one but two copies of Lightning Helix and might be able to bend the math in my favor, especially if I topdeck still more burn or a Path to Exile. Sure, my opponent's combo happened, but nothing is fucked here man, nothing is fucked! Maaaiiintaaaiiin.

So, this is when my opponent taps both his lands and plays Engineered Explosives X=2. My Goyf and Spirit are both very clearly going to die next turn and life sux. :(

But but but wait! On my turn I topdeck Path to Exile! I can kill his Gristlebrand, smash in for ten and sit pretty with two pieces of burn in my hand, right?! Wrong. My opponent is holding Misdirection. He redirects my Path to Nacatl. Mreeooow. Life sux.

Game two involved Pack Rat and me drawing back to back Paths and grinding my opponent down to three while sitting on an Oblivion Ring on the assumption he'd boarded in Show & Tell as an answer to graveyard hate I didn't actually have. Apparently Gaddock Teeg was keeping him off a Treasure Cruise for quite awhile but the turn before I finished the job he found an Exhume and wiped my board with Elesh Norn; life sux.

Then I went home and drank a beer. The end.

Playing Wasteland and PTE together in the same deck does not make for good synergy.

Furthermore, 4x Lightning Helix is far too many even if you opt on playing it over much better and more viable options.

Lastly, no MBT, REB or Cages in the sideboard just seems inherently wrong!

[Richard Cheese]

Went 7-2 before dropping from Jersey with 1-drop Zoo. Report is here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28831-Gibbon-it-to-the-format-7-2-with-Zoo-at-GP-New-Jersey

Deck isn't half bad right now.

[Pellefant]

Went 7-2 before dropping from Jersey with 1-drop Zoo. Report is here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28831-Gibbon-it-to-the-format-7-2-with-Zoo-at-GP-New-Jersey

Deck isn't half bad right now.

Zoo kicking ass like this really warms my heart, congrats! :smile: The report was beyond awesome and the gibbons seem very interesting, I'm definitely going to try them out myself.

[aluisiocsantos]

Congrats man, pretty solid list. I love me some hidden cards, was running hidden herd last time I played zoo!

You totally shoulda done day two though!

[Richard Cheese]

Congrats man, pretty solid list. I love me some hidden cards, was running hidden herd last time I played zoo!

You totally shoulda done day two though!

I know, if I had flown by myself and just to the event, I would have just changed my return plans and stayed. But since we flew into LaGuardia and borrowed a friend's car to drive down from NYC, all my stuff was an hour away in Lambertville, and my wife had to be at work Monday, it was just waaaay to complicated to change at the last minute.

I'm not a competitive guy, so bowing out didn't really bother me. More than anything I'm just disappointed that I didn't have a chance to see how far I could push the deck. I really think the era of "Zoo is dead" has passed, at least for the time being. People are playing less StP, way less Snapcaster, and at least for a while, less SFM. We've also gotten a ton of good tools like Thalia, RiP, and Containment Priest that make beating the unfair decks at least a possibility out of the board.

[Megadeus]

Think dryad militant deserves a shot or no?

[Richard Cheese]

Think dryad militant deserves a shot or no?

I think in the SB if at all. I guess you could argue that it hurts the Cruise decks, but they have a ton of removal anyway. That, and our yard is more important now with Cruise around. One of the reasons I wasn't crazy about Mandrills when I tested it was that between it and Cruise, it usually came down to choosing between a big Goyf or the Mandrills, and I'd rather just dump my hand.

[Vandalize]

To the few out there who are rocking Zoo still, how has Path to Exile been working for you? I'm not impressed by it anytime I cast it, and it's pretty sucky against tier 1 decks like Elves and UR Delver. Moreover, the biggest creatures in fair decks nowdays are Batterskull and Tarmogoyf, which can be dealt with GCRampager.

Something like this:

Lands [20]
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

Creatures [24]
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Goblin Guide
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Qasali Pridemage

Spells [16]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
2 Forked Bolt

Sideboard [15]
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Pyroblast
2 Containment Priest
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle

Some board options would be:

Miracles:
+3 Vortex +2 Pyroblast +2 Gaddock Teeg +1 Pithing Needle +1 Ancient Grudge
-4 Price of Progress -2 Forked Bolt -3 Grim Lavamancer

UR Delver:
+2 Pyroblast +2 Umezawa's Jitte +2 Gaddock Teeg
-3 Qasali Pridemage -3 Price of Progress

Elves:
+2 Gaddock Teeg +2 Containment Priest +2 Umezawa's Jitte +2 Grafdigger's Cage
-4 Price of Progress -3 Qasali Pridemage -1 Sylvan Library

Sneak and Show:
+2 Gaddock Teeg +2 Containment Priest +2 Pyroblast
-2 Forked Bolt -3 Grim Lavamancer -1 Price of Progress

BUG Delver:
+2 Pyroblast +1 Pithing Needle
-3 Qasali Pridemage

UWR Patriot:
+3 Vortex +2 Pyroblast +1 Ancient Grudge
-4 Tarmogoyf (if you expect Rest in Peace) -1 Goblin Guide

Ad Nauseam Tendrils:
+2 Pyroblast +2 Gaddock Teeg +1 Pithing Needle +2 Grafdigger's Cage
-2 Forked Bolt -3 Grim Lavamancer -2 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Death and Taxes:
+3 Vortex +2 Umezawa's Jitte +1 Ancient Grudge +1 Pithing Needle
-3 Spirit of the Labyrinth -3 Price of Progress (if they play multiple Karakas/Flagstones, take out Goblin Guide instead)

[lordofthepit]

To the few out there who are rocking Zoo still, how has Path to Exile been working for you? I'm not impressed by it anytime I cast it, and it's pretty sucky against tier 1 decks like Elves and UR Delver. Moreover, the biggest creatures in fair decks nowdays are Batterskull and Tarmogoyf, which can be dealt with GCRampager.

I'm not playing Zoo anymore, but I ditched Path to Exile back in 2010. I think your plan looks reasonable for a small Zoo build.

[Megadeus]

When I was on zoo last year I had path and pfire. Looking back though, STP probably was right

[lordofthepit]

http://8e8460c4912582c4e519-11fcbfd88ed5b90cfb46edba899033c9.r65.cf1.rackcdn.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/FRF/en/nonfoil/3UDvLwQfJsbF2nW2.jpg

This ridiculous power creep may be enough to get to play Punishing Zoo again.

[enemyofarsenic]

http://8e8460c4912582c4e519-11fcbfd88ed5b90cfb46edba899033c9.r65.cf1.rackcdn.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/FRF/en/nonfoil/3UDvLwQfJsbF2nW2.jpg

This ridiculous power creep may be enough to get to play Punishing Zoo again.

What card is it? Image not showing up.

[lordofthepit]

What card is it? Image not showing up.

Monastery Mentor.

I doubt Zoo is the best shell for it, but it's enough to make me at least want to get back to brewing my favorite deck again.

[Kanti]

I was thinking more Boros when I saw it. 4 Pyros, 4 Mentors, SFM package, and fill the rest out with burn. Didn't think of PFire though. Could be some sort of Naya Zoo with Nacatl's, Lavamancers, YP, Mentor, full suite of maindeck Teegs, PFire, and maybe KotR to tutor for Grove/Waste?

[lordofthepit]

I was thinking more Boros when I saw it. 4 Pyros, 4 Mentors, SFM package, and fill the rest out with burn. Didn't think of PFire though. Could be some sort of Naya Zoo with Nacatl's, Lavamancers, YP, Mentor, full suite of maindeck Teegs, PFire, and maybe KotR to tutor for Grove/Waste?

To be honest, I think the best shell for Mentor will likely be some UWR aggro-midrange deck similar to the Pyromancer Stoneblade list that won GP NJ, but I'm also trying it in Enchantress (because I want to be a troll) and in Punishing Zoo (because it's my favorite deck). It wouldn't be bad in some kind of Deadguy shell with Lingering Souls and Cabal Therapies either.

[aluisiocsantos]

A big zoo (with pfire) approach with Monastery Mentor could be a sick thing. I'm excited :D

[H]

A big zoo (with pfire) approach with Monastery Mentor could be a sick thing. I'm excited :D

I think that is interesting, although there is the inherent tension between Zoo usually running more Creature spells, rather than non-Creature, so there is a little less opportunity to trigger Prowess and make a token if you follow the same build guidelines as before. Then again, you might need less creatures since you can make more with the Mentor. It will require a good deal of work to find the right balance, if there is one, I'd think.

[Einherjer]

In the course of my #FLD series on Twitter I tested Zoo this week. The best I could come up with was a build with RIP to exploit the current metagame, but it was still pretty bad and testing didn't go my way, either. Additionally, I had less time than normal.

#FLD RIP Zoo

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Kird Ape
3 Rest in Peace
3 Sylvan Library
4 Taiga
4 Plateau
3 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Chain Lightning
4 Loam Lion
3 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 Wear // Tear
SB: 4 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Searing Blaze
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg


Greetings

[tomatojim]

In the course of my #FLD series on Twitter I tested Zoo this week. The best I could come up with was a build with RIP to exploit the current metagame, but it was still pretty bad and testing didn't go my way, either. Additionally, I had less time than normal.

#FLD RIP Zoo

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Kird Ape
3 Rest in Peace
3 Sylvan Library
4 Taiga
4 Plateau
3 Savannah
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Chain Lightning
4 Loam Lion
3 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 Wear // Tear
SB: 4 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Searing Blaze
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg


Greetings

Interesting list!
I never considered Pyromancer for Zoo yet, but honestly it could be pretty good. But then I would probably cut some creatures and increase the spellcount. I loved PoP and Fireblast in Zoo lists with a high amount of red cards.

Regarding the maindeck RiPs however I think it's not where you wanna be in a kind of all-in-aggro shell. We're so draw/topdeck dependent, that I don't want another card that slows us down in my maindeck, when I just need a burnspell to win the game. I mean almost no deck plays maindeck RiP (except for Helm.decs), why would you want that in an aggressive deck, that can't abuse it in any other way? I don't want to say it doesn't work, since I never tried it, but I feel like it's not worth crippling our own gameplan for this card.

I'd replace some duals with a few more fetches, too, I guess. Just to get more shuffle effects for Library.

Greetings

[tomatojim]

So, yesterday I put together an aggressive Zoo list, which was based on my previous build, replacing the hatebears (Pridemage and Spirit of the Labyrinth) and Price of Progress with Taylor Swiftspear and Gitaxian Probes. I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I wanted to try it anyways. I always wanted another aggressive onedrop besides Nacatl and Goblin Guide, and in my spellheavy list, where it's good to play your burnspells precombat to kill potential blockers most of the time anyways, I figured I wanted to try Swiftspear and added Probes as additional sorceries for Goyf, more Prowess triggers, more information (though it's not as crucial as in tempodecks) and went down from 19 to 18 lands. I considered Pyromancer as well, but I like having a big creature with Goyf, that doesn't die to Lightning Bolt and Forked Bolt (usually).
Anyways, this is what I will test:

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Path to Exile
3 Fireblast
1 Sylvan Library

4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Mountain

Maybe I'll just cut the Mountain for another Mire. Also I love Fireblasts and Price of Progress, I just had to cut something.
Let me know what you think about it!

Greetings

[aluisiocsantos]

That list looks amazing o_o

[Lemnear]

Deflecting palm- I've killed storm a few times with this.

And how should this work?

[Lemnear]

Well in my experience I'm getting hit for 20. Yes I understand storm counts generate separate spells on the stack but deflecting their tendrils as the source of damage still targets one on the stack, damage is prevented and in return damages the pilot for two. This leaves me at two life which is all I need- after that it's welcome to the jungle, we feast. One time I had palm in my hand when I got cabaled for FOW and player just ignored my hand because I had no blue cards.... oops.

So you never "killed" a storm player with it and were only able to profit from it because the stormcount did not exceed 10 and your opponents being too lazy to read cards. How should this justify an inclusion? You are better off running Thalia

[LOLWut]

Well, it wouldn't deflect even one of the spells, because Tendrils is life loss, and Palm is only for sources of damage.

[maharis]

Are you trying to troll me or something?! I would say a storm player fizzling is as good as dead, and the deflecting palm essentially created a fizzle. Is it that rare for a storm player to only make it to 20 for lethal? Id also note you are responding to one of the matches I was referencing, where in actuality I had pulled DP after the turn one therapy. If also note my main conclusion on the card was not even about storm, it was about it having cool combat tricks if considered in sideboard. For example: I berserked my opponents equipped creature that was attacking for lethal- I then deflecting palmed killing his creature and I took nothing and killed the pilot. That's just one trick if you want to really get into it. Obviously you have novels of storm books or whatever so maybe you're overly sensitive to the storm dying to the paws of zoo issue. Realistically all I was posting were simple play testing notes of exotic jungle testing with my pet deck.

Oh honey.

[CRich3]

Anyone test Prophetic Flamespeaker? I've been trying but it gets countered or killed on the spot everytime.

[zulander]

Anyone test Prophetic Flamespeaker? I've been trying but it gets countered or killed on the spot everytime.


3 mana to 'maybe' draw two cards? I think Domri and Library are better. Heck, even Chandra!

[CRich3]

I'm going to test 1 Domri and 1 Flamespeaker tonight for legacy FNM. My current issue is flooding out when I get the opponent low. Also it seems I can't beat 4 lingering souls.

Edit: no one played legacy tonight due to TCG event tomorrow.

Questions:
1. Which is better Graf Digger's Cage vs Containment Priests
2. I have 2x Qasali Pridemage, 2x Ancient Grudge, 1x Null Rod SB. Is that to much hate for artifacts?
3. Even though low on mana, would 1-2 green sun's zenith be good? Could play a singleton gaddock teeg, ooze, and Pridemage instead of needing multiples.

[tianyuan2k4]

I wonder how good could Atarka’s Command be in Aggro Zoo?

Sample List:

4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Experiment One
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
4 Atarka’s Command

4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah

[CRich3]

Personally I don't like it. Seems like a defensive card, I always want to be on the offense.

[tianyuan2k4]

Personally I don't like it. Seems like a defensive card, I always want to be on the offense.

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Atarka%E2%80%99s-Command-Dragons-of-Tarkir.jpg

It's actually quite aggressive. Assuming you have 3 one drop by turn 2 (24 1cc in the sample list), Atarka's Command means 6-7 damages as it pumps all your dudes and 3 damage to opponent's head. Of course they may have counter or creatures to block (you have pte and bolts though). Opponent would be under a lot of pressure by turn 2 or 3.

[Joram]

Hello all,
first post for me. I am posting from Italy, and my english may not be good enough , so please be kind.I am working with a friend of mine to try to get some playable zoo deck, and we got some ideas looking at Modern.
We were wondering if maybe we could get something that was Legacy-worthy.

First, here's the decklist:

3 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Become Immense
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Hooting Mandrills
1 Tarmogoyf

SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Pithing Needle


A very aggressive list, putting pressure on the opponent from turn 1/2 and able to close the game in 3/4 turns, even avoiding removals in some cases.
Eidolon is a main deck idea to avoid to lose directly game 1 against Storm/Elf, and it even gives us the opportunity to get some "free" damage from the opponent's normal spells (cantrip, creature) or even removal.
Tarmogoyf is the "worst" creature card for this type of list, and this explains why it is only 1 copy.The Hooting Mandrills do almost the same job, but for one mana less, and trampling (and avoiding counterbalance, real crux of this kind of decks).

The part I like the most of this deck is that it is very explosive, and every time we get in the combat phase the opponent does not know how many damages he is in for, and we have plenty of ways of tricking him.
Having 8 creature with haste is also very helpful, since it gives you the opportunity to concede a very short window to the opponent to interact with you and to deal heavy damages before he can build some defenses.

Of course, this list have some problem like the miracle matchup ,which is sometimes hard - damned terminus! - or the S&S matchup.
I'm not quite sure about the land count, since I sometimes feel like I would like to have one land less, but if I do try, I find myself wanting one more.
And I just can not just have "half a land" less.
Also, like every zoo, not having a real solid way of refilling the hand is a problem, but you can not have it all, can you?

Right now the sideboard is a work in progress, so if someone can point out errors/suggestions, they are very welcome.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[CRich3]

Hello all,
first post for me. I am posting from Italy, and my english may not be good enough , so please be kind.I am working with a friend of mine to try to get some playable zoo deck, and we got some ideas looking at Modern.
We were wondering if maybe we could get something that was Legacy-worthy.

First, here's the decklist:

3 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Become Immense
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Hooting Mandrills
1 Tarmogoyf

SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Pithing Needle


A very aggressive list, putting pressure on the opponent from turn 1/2 and able to close the game in 3/4 turns, even avoiding removals in some cases.
Eidolon is a main deck idea to avoid to lose directly game 1 against Storm/Elf, and it even gives us the opportunity to get some "free" damage from the opponent's normal spells (cantrip, creature) or even removal.
Tarmogoyf is the "worst" creature card for this type of list, and this explains why it is only 1 copy.The Hooting Mandrills do almost the same job, but for one mana less, and trampling (and avoiding counterbalance, real crux of this kind of decks).

The part I like the most of this deck is that it is very explosive, and every time we get in the combat phase the opponent does not know how many damages he is in for, and we have plenty of ways of tricking him.
Having 8 creature with haste is also very helpful, since it gives you the opportunity to concede a very short window to the opponent to interact with you and to deal heavy damages before he can build some defenses.

Of course, this list have some problem like the miracle matchup ,which is sometimes hard - damned terminus! - or the S&S matchup.
I'm not quite sure about the land count, since I sometimes feel like I would like to have one land less, but if I do try, I find myself wanting one more.
And I just can not just have "half a land" less.
Also, like every zoo, not having a real solid way of refilling the hand is a problem, but you can not have it all, can you?

Right now the sideboard is a work in progress, so if someone can point out errors/suggestions, they are very welcome.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Boros charm for me has been hit and miss. Good at hitting a Jace and saving from Abrupt Decay but other times it was useless. You have to use your mana and spells as efficiently as possible and 2 mana for 4 damage was never great with Zoo in legacy.

I usually save all my burn spells to remove creatures then go to the face late game to finish them off. So swift spear doesn't seem effective. Going all in leaves you very susceptible to terminus.

You may want to consider Sylvan Library.

Hooting Mandrills vs Tarmogoyf is difficult to chose between. Goyf is better vs other Goyfs and Batterskull but Hooting Mandrills is best vs just about every other creature. Unfortunately most decks have Goyf or Batterskull.

Low on time so I'll just stop there.

[Ricardio]

Hey guys. New to this deck but I have it built leg/mod online and modern irl
(no legacy in my immediate area)

I have been running goyfless but with BTE bc that card makes for ridiculously explosive draws.

I would like to know what I can do against miracles since there is so much only.

[jtos84]

I think Zoo may be possible in Legacy. A month or two ago I took my Modern Zoo list and converted it into a form of Goyf Sligh. It was winning quite a few matches, but I found that I would get quite a few opponents to around four life, and they would stabilize with Brainstorm. After looking at the above list, I think that Eidelon might be the key. I guess I will try some new variation again since I have been dabbling in Legacy again.

[astormbrewing]

Here is the list I'll be messing with on MTGO soon.

4 Experiment One
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hooting Mandrills
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt

4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

/SB
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Choke
2 Price of Progress
4 Pyroblast
3 Rest in Peace

Also looking to build it in paper, and might be at SCG DC and Eternal Weekend. If this deck doesn't perform, I still have the People's Cannon to fire.

[Ziveeman]

Here is the list I'll be messing with on MTGO soon.

4 Experiment One
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hooting Mandrills
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt

4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

/SB
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Choke
2 Price of Progress
4 Pyroblast
3 Rest in Peace

Also looking to build it in paper, and might be at SCG DC and Eternal Weekend. If this deck doesn't perform, I still have the People's Cannon to fire.

Any merit for Canonist in the maindeck or SB? I've felt that Canonist is very strong versus OmniTell and also gets actual free wins if in the maindeck against Storm.

I've also been working on Zoo for a little bit and happy to see other people on the same page as me - playing a little bit like a hatebear aggro deck, which is how I feel Zoo needs to be to compete with all of these unfair decks running around.

This is what I've settled on for now but haven't had a chance to test it:

Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
4 Taiga
4 Plateau
1 Savannah

Sideboard
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pyroblast
3 Choke
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Krosan Grip
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Containment Priest

[Megadeus]

Anybody currently Zooing? I'mgiving this deck another shot after going 3-1 at a weekly with just an absolutely random assortment of Zoo cards. Is main board Thalia probably best? I can dig it. I've also always been very very happy with 3-4 pridemage. Teeg main seems nice too. Maybe something like:

4 Nacatl
4 Hierarch
3 Pridemage
4 Thalia
2 Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary (Karakas being his only special target)

For starters any way. Also Eidelon is still interesting to me.

[Pellefant]

Anybody currently Zooing? I'mgiving this deck another shot after going 3-1 at a weekly with just an absolutely random assortment of Zoo cards. Is main board Thalia probably best? I can dig it. I've also always been very very happy with 3-4 pridemage. Teeg main seems nice too. Maybe something like:

4 Nacatl
4 Hierarch
3 Pridemage
4 Thalia
2 Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary (Karakas being his only special target)

For starters any way. Also Eidelon is still interesting to me.

Almost everyone has given up on zoo it seems, me included. The present meta is incredibly hostile and I don't feel there are any real advantages running zoo over something like maverick.

Anyway, I wish you good luck with your zoo endeavours. I hope you manage to put together a successful list and sorry I couldn't be of any help.

[Seraphix]

Anyone have thoughts on this pile?

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31240_Daily-Digest-Zoo-Controlgerr.html

[Seraphix]

Seems interesting. Seems like what I was brewing up about a month or so ago. I don't think I'd leave home without a couple Teeg though. I'd also like to play Green Sun but it's not great with Thalia or Bloodbraid Elf. Also I don't know how much I like PFire right now. I feel decently favored against most of the current fair match ups already. I think that list probably is better off being more of a Punishing Maverick shell. My current list:

...



I'm fascinated by the idea of Big Zoo in Legacy. I always feel you need GSZ to find G. Teeg against combo though, and at that point you might as well just play Maverick since GSZ and BBE are pretty awkward together. This list actually has decent velocity with BBE, 3 Libraries and Domri but I don't know if that's good enough. I have played Domri in Maverick before (lol) and can confirm he is a house in tandem with Library, however.

[Megadeus]

Fwiw Ifound my big zoo list that I played in 2013 to some decent results:

4 Nacatl
3 Pridemage
2 Goyf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 KOTR
2 Teeg
3 Lavamancer
3 Loxodon Smiter

4 Bolt
3 Pfire
4 Path
2 Library
2 GSZ

2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 each basic
2 Grove
4 Foothills
2 Windswept
4 Mesa

SB:
3 REB
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Thalia
1 Karakas
3 RIP
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 KGrip

Note that this was pre omnitell/true name. And Delver was pretty rampant so smiter was nuts.

[astormbrewing]

I've tweaked my list into something faster. The list I posted earlier was too wonky with Spirit of the Labyrinth and Hooting Mandrills. Below is what I will be playing at SCG DC in a few weeks:

3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Wild Nacatl

1 Become Immense
4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Price of Progress

4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Null Rod
3 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[Ziveeman]

Friend played my Zoo deck to a Top 4 finish at our monthly Legacy event:

Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Sylvan Library
1 Chain Lightning

Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
4 Taiga
4 Plateau
1 Savannah

Sideboard
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Rest in Peace
1 Containment Priest
1 Sulfuric Vortex

I watched most of his games. When you don't draw any hatebears, the deck feels pretty underpowered so I'm wondering if a Big Zoo version that can play a few GSZs and some more maindeck hatebears would be better.

[Megadeus]

Been on this list the past few weeks. Went 4-0 tonight after a disappointing 1-2 last week which felt like an outlier more than anything. Deck seems very fine. Mandrills helped me beat a true name in the first round just trampling right over. The conglomeration of hate bears helped me 2-0 High Tide. Pridemages and the bigger things helped me beat MUD. The only card that has been underperforming is the Bloodbraid elves, but they are mainly there for the Miracles MU, which I haven't had to play against yet. I can't imagine it being an overly positive MU, but I think with completely optimal play I can at least be 50/50 with decent miracles pilots.

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
2 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Domri Rade
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Price of Progress
3 Hooting Mandrills
1 Karakas
1 Chain Lightning

SB:
1 Krosan Grip
2 Eidelon of the Great Revel
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collected Company
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

The Mandrills are a concession to the fact that I really don't have many ways to beat True Name other than swarming around or trampling over him. I may try out Ghor Clan Rampagers next week over the Bloodbraids though.

[lavafrogg]

Friend played my Zoo deck to a Top 4 finish at our monthly Legacy event:

Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Sylvan Library
1 Chain Lightning

Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
4 Taiga
4 Plateau
1 Savannah

Sideboard
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Rest in Peace
1 Containment Priest
1 Sulfuric Vortex

I watched most of his games. When you don't draw any hatebears, the deck feels pretty underpowered so I'm wondering if a Big Zoo version that can play a few GSZs and some more maindeck hatebears would be better.

What is the logic behind no tarmogoyf?

Also, why heirarch over deathrite shaman? More aggressive?

[lordofthepit]

Been on this list the past few weeks. Went 4-0 tonight after a disappointing 1-2 last week which felt like an outlier more than anything. Deck seems very fine. Mandrills helped me beat a true name in the first round just trampling right over. The conglomeration of hate bears helped me 2-0 High Tide. Pridemages and the bigger things helped me beat MUD. The only card that has been underperforming is the Bloodbraid elves, but they are mainly there for the Miracles MU, which I haven't had to play against yet. I can't imagine it being an overly positive MU, but I think with completely optimal play I can at least be 50/50 with decent miracles pilots.

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
2 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Domri Rade
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Price of Progress
3 Hooting Mandrills
1 Karakas
1 Chain Lightning

SB:
1 Krosan Grip
2 Eidelon of the Great Revel
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collected Company
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

The Mandrills are a concession to the fact that I really don't have many ways to beat True Name other than swarming around or trampling over him. I may try out Ghor Clan Rampagers next week over the Bloodbraids though.

Congrats! I saw you on stream for part of round 3, although I suspect that may have just been a friendly!

[Megadeus]

Yeah Icrushed a UW Blade deck in my game 3 on camera because he mulled to 5. And yeah that was a friendly. I think I'm pretty poorly positioned against the fair non blue decks that just go bigger than me like that maverick deck. Those are somewhat common at my store. I may need to figure out some sort of board plan. Anyone play Electrickery? I want to play Bonfire, but it seems like it might be mediocre. I just want a huge trump card in those types of match ups

[lordofthepit]

Yeah Icrushed a UW Blade deck in my game 3 on camera because he mulled to 5. And yeah that was a friendly. I think I'm pretty poorly positioned against the fair non blue decks that just go bigger than me like that maverick deck. Those are somewhat common at my store. I may need to figure out some sort of board plan. Anyone play Electrickery? I want to play Bonfire, but it seems like it might be mediocre. I just want a huge trump card in those types of match ups

Punishing Fire :tongue:

[iGrok]

Punishing Fire :tongue:

Please stop destroying me with Gaddock Teeg lol. Brutal to play against. This deck's a sweet pile of hate, I'm glad its doing well, just don't Teeg me bro!

[Ziveeman]

What is the logic behind no tarmogoyf?

Also, why heirarch over deathrite shaman? More aggressive?

The idea behind the deck is to try and play a t1 aggressive creature -> t2 hatebear. Tarmogoyf is good (and I had it in previous iterations), but I felt I needed more room to play cards that interacted with the opponent in a more meaningful way. Ghor-Clan Rampager helps fight opposing Tarmogoyfs (as does Path to Exile) awhile making the deck more aggressive.

[Megadeus]

Agreed. Maybe in a meta where there was more midrange Goyf would be fine again, but when the format looks like Miracles, Omni, and such I'd rather have the hate effects. Plus like has been said, when you have things like Path and Rampager, you can win the battle against opposing Goyfs. Hoping to try out Ghor Clans this week if I'm not on commentary for the stream. Probably will be cutting the Bloodbraids since the main MU I put them in for (miracles) I haven't seen much of at our local lately. Probably cut 3 Blood Braids and a Mandrills for like 2-3 Rampagers and something else

[Seraphix]

Yeah Icrushed a UW Blade deck in my game 3 on camera because he mulled to 5. And yeah that was a friendly. I think I'm pretty poorly positioned against the fair non blue decks that just go bigger than me like that maverick deck. Those are somewhat common at my store. I may need to figure out some sort of board plan. Anyone play Electrickery? I want to play Bonfire, but it seems like it might be mediocre. I just want a huge trump card in those types of match ups

I've played both Electrickery and even Bonfire in Maverick before but I don't think I ever drew either in a game so I can't say how good they are. My main beef with Bonfire is that you can't cast it though your own G. Teeg against Elves, which is super relevant because with NO shut down they are probably Glimpse killing you with an army of dudes.

[Richard Cheese]

Agreed. Maybe in a meta where there was more midrange Goyf would be fine again, but when the format looks like Miracles, Omni, and such I'd rather have the hate effects. Plus like has been said, when you have things like Path and Rampager, you can win the battle against opposing Goyfs. Hoping to try out Ghor Clans this week if I'm not on commentary for the stream. Probably will be cutting the Bloodbraids since the main MU I put them in for (miracles) I haven't seen much of at our local lately. Probably cut 3 Blood Braids and a Mandrills for like 2-3 Rampagers and something else

I'd play Goyfs over Mandrills though, especially in a list where you're running Thalia main and cutting back on burn. I agree that trample is relevant, but I really hated those guys when I tested with them. Just uncastable early or in multiples, and I felt like I was always tempted to run my burn spells out early just to fill the yard. You've got some ramp going though so YMMV.

[Megadeus]

Punted around to a not so hot 1-2 this week after a 4-0 and my buddy playing my deck to a 3-1-1 loss in top 8 (both losses to the same dredge player). I still can't decide if I want Bloodbraid Elf or Ghor Clan Rampager. Both have their uses. I think I might cut a path or two for another chain lightning or so. Path on the draw against deathrite feels soooo bad

[lavafrogg]

No love for nimble mongoose? He was a mainstay in the old San Diego Zoo lists.

[Megadeus]

Eh. In aformat where he can get chumped by deathrite who also hurts your ability to get threshold in a single card he seems mediocre since the earliest he can be a 3/3 here seems to be turn 4? Unless you are slinging bolts straight to the dome. Seems like a losing proposition to me,but maybe I'm wrong

[lavafrogg]

Deathrite pretty much cut mongoose out in most of the format but against Miracles, blanking their swords to plowshares is a pretty big deal. At that point they only have terminus to deal with the little goose that could.

[Richard Cheese]

Punted around to a not so hot 1-2 this week after a 4-0 and my buddy playing my deck to a 3-1-1 loss in top 8 (both losses to the same dredge player). I still can't decide if I want Bloodbraid Elf or Ghor Clan Rampager. Both have their uses. I think I might cut a path or two for another chain lightning or so. Path on the draw against deathrite feels soooo bad

I would go with Rampager just because it lets you play less of an "all-in" strategy against Miracles, which is the biggest piece of the meta right now and probably the hardest match outside combo. BBE is good for netting you some card advantage, but you really don't want to just dump a bunch of guys into Terminus. You can really just sit on 1-2 guys and pick away at them for a bit and use Ghor-Clan as an uncounterable finisher. He's also a surprisingly relevant body against a lot of decks. Burn and a lot of the Delver decks just shrug at a 4/4 trample. Definitely not as good at picking off Jaces though.

[Ralf]

"Pas de violence, c'est les vacances".

Here is the list I'll be banging @ my LGS tomorrow morning for at least a pretty nice 6 swiss rounds and guess who's coming for "Breakfeast" ?

ZOoBEeRrrrr by Ralf


1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
2 City of Brass
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dryad Militant
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sudden Shock
4 Lightning Bolt

SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Price of Progress
SB: 2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction


The concept of this deck lies in between an aggro deck and a hatebear deck mixed with a BANTY sauce: Choking your opponent to death...
I encourage anyone interested by such concept to try several bears:

- MoR / Sylvan Safekeeper. MoR+ Berserker= profit. MoR + Gaddock/SoL is also very strong in some MU.
- Thalia (could replace Gaddock but without wasteland, I think overall that Gaddock > Thalia. But Sudden shock + Thalia is saucy)
- Stratus Dancer (could also replace Gaddock. 5 color is doable as long as Stratus is the only blue card in your deck)
- Canonist (I think SoL is better at accomplishing what we are intending to do but who knows...)

As we don't have access to any card selection or draw power (I have eschewed SL on purpose), I thought everyone should be on the same step.
Obviously you lose the speed of a classical zoo list, as you'll be operating with 2 creatures by T2 instead of the usual 3-1 drops.
In exchange, you are better prepared against combo and control decks.

I won't go into much details but if you have any questions, feel free to shoot.

@ Sorin: It should be "Domri Rade", but I don't have access to it...

Stay tuned as I'll write a report whatever way it goes !

[kinda]

"Pas de violence, c'est les vacances".

Here is the list I'll be banging @ my LGS tomorrow morning for at least a pretty nice 6 swiss rounds and guess who's coming for "Breakfeast" ?

ZOoBEeRrrrr by Ralf


1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
2 City of Brass
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dryad Militant
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sudden Shock
4 Lightning Bolt

SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Price of Progress
SB: 2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction


The concept of this deck lies in between an aggro deck and a hatebear deck mixed with a BANTY sauce: Choking your opponent to death...
I encourage anyone interested by such concept to try several bears:

- MoR / Sylvan Safekeeper. MoR+ Berserker= profit. MoR + Gaddock/SoL is also very strong in some MU.
- Thalia (could replace Gaddock but without wasteland, I think overall that Gaddock > Thalia. But Sudden shock + Thalia is saucy)
- Stratus Dancer (could also replace Gaddock. 5 color is doable as long as Stratus is the only blue card in your deck)
- Canonist (I think SoL is better at accomplishing what we are intending to do but who knows...)

As we don't have access to any card selection or draw power (I have eschewed SL on purpose), I thought everyone should be on the same step.
Obviously you lose the speed of a classical zoo list, as you'll be operating with 2 creatures by T2 instead of the usual 3-1 drops.
In exchange, you are better prepared against combo and control decks.

I won't go into much details but if you have any questions, feel free to shoot.

@ Sorin: It should be "Domri Rade", but I don't have access to it...

Stay tuned as I'll write a report whatever way it goes !

List looks really fun. Your only 3 drop is double red though so idk about noble hierarch. Wild nacatl looks like it would be better unless you added goyf or kotr.

[cherson]

"Pas de violence, c'est les vacances".

Here is the list I'll be banging @ my LGS tomorrow morning for at least a pretty nice 6 swiss rounds and guess who's coming for "Breakfeast" ?

ZOoBEeRrrrr by Ralf


1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
2 City of Brass
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dryad Militant
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sudden Shock
4 Lightning Bolt

SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Price of Progress
SB: 2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction





How did dryad militant work?
Didn't they die before they are useful?

Thanks

[Ralf]

Well, I did poorly.
Something like 2/0/4.

Sorry for having not posted back results before but I was quite busy brewing other things.

So, if I remember well, I went:


1) Mono white soldier-equipment. Loss (1/2)

The last game was pretty hot as if I had topdecked a 2nd qasali just a turn sooner, the game would have been mine.


2) Storm. Win 2/0

Oh boyz, that was a rape. Militant made my day G1. G2, Eidolon + SCB asked for a quick concession.


3) Omni. Loss 1/2

Lost G1 to a quick combo T3.
Won G2 thanks to Dryad + SoL + SCB.
Lost G3 to another quick combo T3 (Sol met FOW T2)


4) UR Delver. Won 2/1

Won G1 on the back of Militant preventing my opponent from delving.
Lost G2 when I had lethal on my turn :(
Won G3 by swarming him like zergling on protoss ;)


5) Jund. Loss 1/2

Won G1 by swarming him to death.
Lost G2 because an unanswered bob put me far behind.
Lost G3 because infinite removal on his side and huge tarmogoyfs :(


6) MBC. Loss 1/2

Won G1 by swarming him to death.
Lost G2 to mana death.
Lost G3 to mana flood :(


Conclusions:

Dryad Militant is a very nice card.
It deals with PF and is a nasty b. against decks using a lot the graveyard.
But that was a meta choice regarding the DTT era. I am reworking the whole list to get something much more in line with the new meta.

I truly think a "Zoo-bear" concept is viable. During the tournament, I lacked some "punch" to close out some games (especially against midrange deck) but that is what you get for playing small creatures with so many abilities. I realized that I wanted at least another PoP in the board.

[Megadeus]

Anybody playing zoo? Beuhler? I get the itch to play zoo every couple of months. Now I want do it again

[Seraphix]

Anybody playing zoo? Beuhler? I get the itch to play zoo every couple of months. Now I want do it again

I just sleeved this up for my last FNM:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
2 Wasteland

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Fiery Justice


Beat Esper Deathblade and a Shardless/Bant/Blade deck, lost to Mono-B Reanimator and Omni-Tell.

I had a blast and the deck didn't seem terrible, could use a few improvements though. The Mountain should maybe be another dual land (not even sure which), and while my brain told me the Elspeth should be a Sylvan Library my heart wouldn't allow it.

[paradigm72]

Anybody playing zoo? Beuhler? I get the itch to play zoo every couple of months. Now I want do it again

I've been playing 4-color Thalia/Eidolon zoo on MTGO a fair bit. Black splash for DRS and Dark Confidant, the idea being to have lots of effects that get value under Thalia/Eidolon like 4x Grim Lavamancer and 3x Ghor-Clan Rampager. It's definitely playable, and pretty good against Miracles with 2 Sylvan Library / 4 Dark Confidant, and stuff like Gaddock Teeg and either Leyline of Lifeforce or Vexing Shusher in the board. Also good against Storm with so many maindeck hatebears.

Weak against Delver, though, because the mana base is greedy beyond belief. 3 Path to Exile in the sideboard helps, but not enough to make the matchup good.

[Mirrislegend]

Weak against Delver, though, because the mana base is greedy beyond belief. 3 Path to Exile in the sideboard helps, but not enough to make the matchup good.

Abrupt Decay tends to shred Delver.

[Megadeus]

I'm going back to zoo. Need to get the deck together and eventually getting more duals. I'm somewhat enamored with the thought of scab clan berserker though. I might try a list with him and a couple of Simian Spirit Guide to help cast him quickly. Him with an exalted trigger or two can net serious closing power
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hooting Mandrills
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress

2 Domri Rade

1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Arid Mesa

[Artlee]

I'm going back to zoo. Need to get the deck together and eventually getting more duals. I'm somewhat enamored with the thought of scab clan berserker though. I might try a list with him and a couple of Simian Spirit Guide to help cast him quickly. Him with an exalted trigger or two can net serious closing power
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hooting Mandrills
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress

2 Domri Rade

1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Arid Mesa

I see the berserker only deals damage to opponents, but you should be able to deal 20 damage faster than opponent with all that burn + early damage, so I'm haveing a hard time seeing why Eidolon of the Great Revel isn't better. You lose some attributes, haste and damage, but choosing Simian Spirit Guide seems like severe card disadvantage, that mostly belongs to decks that cast game winning spells one turn faster, like bloodmoon, chalice, trinisphere.

[Ralf]

I'm going back to zoo. Need to get the deck together and eventually getting more duals. I'm somewhat enamored with the thought of scab clan berserker though. I might try a list with him and a couple of Simian Spirit Guide to help cast him quickly. Him with an exalted trigger or two can net serious closing power
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hooting Mandrills
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress

2 Domri Rade

1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Arid Mesa

For funsies, I built a mix of your previous list and ideas I had with SCB.
Actually the deck is stronger than I thought (tweaked it during Christmas break)

Lands

1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
3 Windswept Heath
2 Mesa Arid
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Taiga

Creatures

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Scab Clan Berserker
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Bloodbraid Elf

Walker

2 Domri Rade

Removal

4 Lightning Bolt
4 PTE
1 Chain Lightning

Finisher

2 Price of progress


Sideboard:

2 Containment Priest
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Surgical Extraction
3 REB
2 Armageddon
2 Vexing Shusher

Few food for thoughts:

MD is where I want to be but :

1) I am wondering whether PTE should finally be STP or not. The only MU where PTE matters is "lands". Otherwise, I think STP > PTE.
2) I am also considering Sylvan Library instead of Domri. Because I barely use its ulti (either the oppo is dead already or domri is dealt with) and I didn't get to use its -2 very often.
3) RR is sometimes hard to reach, even more because NH doesn't provide R, but I refuse to cut 1 or 2 for some Bird because I feel exaltation triggers are overall a better choice. If you have an idea to get SCB castable 90 % of the time by T2/T3, I take it !

SB is still a pile but Armaggedon is a big deal.

[Seraphix]

For funsies, I built a mix of your previous list and ideas I had with SCB.
Actually the deck is stronger than I thought (tweaked it during Christmas break)

list

1) I am wondering whether PTE should finally be STP or not. The only MU where PTE matters is "lands". Otherwise, I think STP > PTE.
2) I am also considering Sylvan Library instead of Domri. Because I barely use its ulti (either the oppo is dead already or domri is dealt with) and I didn't get to use its -2 very often.
3) RR is sometimes hard to reach, even more because NH doesn't provide R, but I refuse to cut 1 or 2 for some Bird because I feel exaltation triggers are overall a better choice. If you have an idea to get SCB castable 90 % of the time by T2/T3, I take it !

SB is still a pile but Armaggedon is a big deal.

Really cool list, I might try something like this. Cascading into Scab-Clan seems sweet. Domri is ok but is bordering on too cute. I would at least play a 1 Library/1 Domri split if not just both Libraries.

I assume Shusher is anti-miracles tech...is it good?

[Ralf]

Really cool list, I might try something like this. Cascading into Scab-Clan seems sweet. Domri is ok but is bordering on too cute. I would at least play a 1 Library/1 Domri split if not just both Libraries.

I assume Shusher is anti-miracles tech...is it good?

Well to give a breakdown of the tested MU:


Miracle:

G1: (I'd say 40/60)
The game tends to turn around CB.
If it resolves and you don't have a qasali in play / rdy to fire, you are pretty doomed.
Otherwise, you just roll over him.
There are too many annoying creatures that Miracle has to deal with.
SCB is a monster

Postboard (55/45 maybe more)
The game is far better and with a fine tuned sideboard, I would even think we could end up with a positive MU vs Miracle.
Shusher is nice. Armageddon is game.


Shardless

G1: (I'd say 55/45 maybe more)
The game ends with Price of progress.
You have enough gas to keep up with him till he toxics you. But haste creatures are devil monsters. There are too many things to decay and exalted triggers are pretty neet here.

Postboard (50/50)
We should still have the upper hand but the shardless player profits more from his sideboard than us.

You'll lose to heavy discard hands or lucky cascades.


Dredge

Don't ask me why, my friend wanted to play dredge. He got unlucky and lost 10 games straight.
He burnt Dredge afterwards.
Qasali was MVP to get rid of Bridges and Gaddock was MVP to prevent any Dread Return to hit the board.


ANT

We didn't play any G2 or G3 since the game is mostly decided by the T2 kill.
1) Thalia is mostly game
2) Gaddock is game
3) SCB is game

And you have 9 of theses MD...


So far I'm pretty impressed by the deck.
You can play either the fast aggro or the midrange path.
SCB is a monster.
BBE cascading into SCB/KoTR/Domri is really fun.

[Asthereal]

Dredge
Qasali was MVP to get rid of Bridges
What target did you use to activate QPM? You need a target to be able to sac it.




ANT
We didn't play any G2 or G3 since the game is mostly decided by the T2 kill.
1) Thalia is mostly game
2) Gaddock is game
3) SCB is game

And you have 9 of theses MD...
This is just nonsense. ANT boards removal, gets rid of your hate bear and then kills you. If you fail to consider this option, you can just as well skip playtesting. Zoo vs. ANT is decided in the postboard games every time. I have played both decks a lot, and game 1 is a coinflip if Zoo plays that many hate bears: will ANT blow up before I get one? Games 2 and 3 we need a LOT of luck to win. ANT must be slow and not find removal for your hate bear(s). If ANT manages to avoid one of these two problems, we just lose.

[Megadeus]

Agreed. I've definitely beaten an on board Thalia without bouncing it in storm. Teeg is impossible in G1. But especially againsta deck without mana denial, storm can certainly beat a bear or two.

[Ralf]

What target did you use to activate QPM? You need a target to be able to sac it.



This is just nonsense. ANT boards removal, gets rid of your hate bear and then kills you. If you fail to consider this option, you can just as well skip playtesting. Zoo vs. ANT is decided in the postboard games every time. I have played both decks a lot, and game 1 is a coinflip if Zoo plays that many hate bears: will ANT blow up before I get one? Games 2 and 3 we need a LOT of luck to win. ANT must be slow and not find removal for your hate bear(s). If ANT manages to avoid one of these two problems, we just lose.

You might be right. But SCB was not played by Zoo by then.
You can pack 3 decay 3 dread of night and 2 Void snare and still die with ANT because you have diluted your deck too much.

I would say the MU to be 50/50 because you could bring 3 Surgical 3 REB from the side (which is far from optimal but I said the sideboard is a pile to be worked on...)
But definitely it deserves more testing.

The main idea was to get a grip and an early feedback about the deck. I don't pretend the deck to be the next DTB. So please, just calm down.
We are not at that point, yet.

MUs have to be properly tested. A proper sideboard tables has to be built. It is a long way home.

I was just saying I had a very nice kitchen table run and that was that.
Some MUs were tested with sideboard, some were not. We started with Miracle and Shardless just to gauge the deck potential (and test SCB).

If anyone is interested to push the deck into something more tuned and less raw, I'll be very glad to provide any help.

Ps: I quoted Qasali as MVP (ironically) since my mate made the error of keeping a LED on board for several turns. Don't ask me why because I really dunno what was his line of play. Turns out that Qasali made my day.
To be honest, dredge has shit on him that night with several mull to 5. Keeping a no dredger hand with some draw spell + a LED is not the end of the world.
Furthermore, god of luck was with me since I saw Gaddock on mostly 7 games out of 10 AFTER being hit by therapy... Definitely not his night.

[Megadeus]

If your opponent knows you have Thalia/Scab Clan or eidolon they should be paying LED ASAP.

[Asthereal]

You might be right. But SCB was not played by Zoo by then.
You can pack 3 decay 3 dread of night and 2 Void snare and still die with ANT because you have diluted your deck too much.

I would say the MU to be 50/50 because you could bring 3 Surgical 3 REB from the side (which is far from optimal but I said the sideboard is a pile to be worked on...)
But definitely it deserves more testing.

The main idea was to get a grip and an early feedback about the deck. I don't pretend the deck to be the next DTB. So please, just calm down.
We are not at that point, yet.

MUs have to be properly tested. A proper sideboard tables has to be built. It is a long way home.

I was just saying I had a very nice kitchen table run and that was that.
Some MUs were tested with sideboard, some were not. We started with Miracle and Shardless just to gauge the deck potential (and test SCB).

If anyone is interested to push the deck into something more tuned and less raw, I'll be very glad to provide any help.

Ps: I quoted Qasali as MVP (ironically) since my mate made the error of keeping a LED on board for several turns. Don't ask me why because I really dunno what was his line of play. Turns out that Qasali made my day.
To be honest, dredge has shit on him that night with several mull to 5. Keeping a no dredger hand with some draw spell + a LED is not the end of the world.
Furthermore, god of luck was with me since I saw Gaddock on mostly 7 games out of 10 AFTER being hit by therapy... Definitely not his night.
Sorry if I was harsh. On the kitchen table (if I had one) I'd probably also try a few preboard games first to get a feel for the deck. I read your post thinking it was a serious test run, and made my point based on that. ANT postboard is the thing you want to test extensively if this is going to be your weapon of choice, but if you're not ready for extensive playtesting yet, you need different feedback. So here we go:

Do you want to play full aggro, do you want to play a tad more controllish, or do you intentionally stay somewhere in the middle? You run very agressive cards like Price of Progress, but also a high curve with not very many fast attackers. In a more controllish list, I'd definitely try to fit the Punishing Fire combo in, but in an agressive list I'd like more fast attackers. It's something to think about.

Another thing I'd like to address: I feel your mana curve is bad. You have 8 proper turn one plays, not counting the burn and removal spells (since they often have no target). Then you have 9 two-drops, 8 three-drops and the Bloodbraids. It looks like this deck needs more turn one plays. First one that comes to mind is Green Sun's Zenith. It can be a Llanowar Elf, accellerating yo into the high curve, and later on it's a Knight, a QPM or a Teeg if needed. It also allows you to run fewer of those fringe cards since you just tutor them up. Zenith does combine rather badly with Bloodbraid Elf though. With Zenith in the list, it's also easier to make room for Tarmogoyf. You don't run any now, but it's still a very good card, and you can easily add one or two to Zenith for if there's no utility guy needed at that point. Maybe something like this (ditched the Bloodbraids for now, since they combine badly with Zenith, but that's debatable):

Lands:
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas /20

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tarmogoyf
3 Scab Clan Berserker
3 Knight of the Reliquary /23

Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith /17

[Ralf]

Another thing I'd like to address: I feel your mana curve is bad. You have 8 proper turn one plays, not counting the burn and removal spells (since they often have no target). Then you have 9 two-drops, 8 three-drops and the Bloodbraids. It looks like this deck needs more turn one plays. First one that comes to mind is Green Sun's Zenith. It can be a Llanowar Elf, accellerating yo into the high curve, and later on it's a Knight, a QPM or a Teeg if needed. It also allows you to run fewer of those fringe cards since you just tutor them up. Zenith does combine rather badly with Bloodbraid Elf though. With Zenith in the list, it's also easier to make room for Tarmogoyf. You don't run any now, but it's still a very good card, and you can easily add one or two to Zenith for if there's no utility guy needed at that point. Maybe something like this (ditched the Bloodbraids for now, since they combine badly with Zenith, but that's debatable)


This is a very different deck you are proposing and one might have no incentive to play "this" instead of a regular "Maverickish" deck. But well it deserves testing.

The idea Megadeus has proposed in the first place was to play something akin "Big Zoo".

The more you add 1 turn drop, the more you are playing a regular Zooish deck. We 've already gone that way.
Adding GSZ could be a great addition but then you will, at some point, try to fit more and more silver bullets to finally fall back on Maverick.

There is also a nonbo between Thalia + Gaddock + GSZ. Sure, you can play around (like Maverick do) but you will lose quite velocity.

Finally, GSZ is a spell, not a creature spell:
- It adds 1 mana to any green creature spell you want to search for
- It fears spell pierce and a lot of hate that can come from any sideboard (cage, priest, etc...)

I won't list all the draws and cons of such a spell as we already know what it means to play GSZ in a deck.

The list I have proposed is the one Megadeus provided a few months ago mixed with SCB.
I mean, it's been months since I'm trying to make SCB work in Legacy.

I tried several things (Zoo, Hatebear, Burn style with Eidolon + SCB, etc...)

With this list you are jamming a good array of creatures; some with built-in abilities (hatebears), some with none (beaters).

I know it looks "unpowered", very raw...whatever.

My mates were laughing at it, till I started kicking ass. Why ?

-> This is an aggro deck with a not so bad mid & lategame as it has some tools to crawl back in the game:
- BBE provides CA + haste
- KoTR provides CA; I played KoTR has a CA tool. You barely attack with her (just as a one strike finisher), you just use her ability to fetch for CA (horizon canopy), fetch to thin your deck (fetch into fetches) or to find your one of utility land (karakas) until the very moment where your odds to draw a creature spell / removal / bolt is >90 %, every single turn. She is best at stalling a board until you eventually overwhelm your opponent.
- Domri provides CA. Not always, but coupled with the thinning process of KoTR you will eventually reach 60%+ chance to reveal a creature with its first ability.

What usually happens (in winning games) is the following:

1) You deploy early threats (and not so small ones) which profits from exaltations triggers.
2) Your opp finds a way to slow you down
3) The board gets "stalled", your opponent usually hesitates to strike back with goyf/whatever bigger than your creatures because he is not sure he can win the race:
3.1) If he swings: he takes the risk to take a big strike back coming from your hasty creatures (SCB is almost a 4 PV loss guaranted if it connects)
3.2) He doesn't swing: eventually BBE, KoTR, Domri show up and you start crawling back (step by step)
4) At some point, your opponent is forced to act (KoTR is growing bigger and bigger threatening Goyf size for example, Domri's ulty is ready to be fired...etc)
5) You end the game either with a lethal attack phase overwhelming your oppo's defenses or with your blasts (bolt, price of progess).

TBH, it works:
- sometimes you won't pass step 1) because you have killed your oppo in the early stage of the game (T1 Nacatl, T2 hierarch bolt DRS, attack for 4, T3 qasali + Thalia, attack for 5, T4 BBE into SCB -> lethal strike).
- sometimes you reach step 5) and win from there.
- sometimes you lose to mana full /mana death (screwed)/ color screwed

You won't win every single game, for sure.

But you can trust me when I say I had a blast playing the deck. Every game was really disputed (save combo) and I was ahead in the majority of them (save Miracle preboard).
If you are still not convinced, pick up the list and playtest a few various games. You'll get what I mean !

Final words:

Would I say the deck to be ready for a FNM ? Yes.
For a monthly/bigger tournament ? No.

To make it better, we now need commitments in a not-so-hot archetype.

Who really is ready to commit himself in a ZOO deck ?

I can help building strategies/sideboard tables but I have not the time nor the ressources to test it properly.

Have fun Zoo.ers !!!

[Curby]

If you're playing Zenith and Bloodbraid in the same deck, why not add a Dryad Arbor to avoid a total nonbo? It can also be useful as a turn-1 pseudo-Llanowar if you draw Zenith and no other 1-drop.

[Megadeus]

Green Sun does add some consistency and I would not be averse to running it at some point. I've just been somewhat enamored with the thought of scab clan since I watched nedleeds play it in his moon stumpy deck. I haven't really tried zoo in awhile, but I think when scg comes to town in a couple of weeks I'll be testing it out in the large Sunday event. I'm confident in my abilities and I think it will go a long way towards showing me whether or not the deck is actually even remotely viable

[Seraphix]

...

Would I say the deck to be ready for a FNM ? Yes.
For a monthly/bigger tournament ? No.

To make it better, we now need commitments in a not-so-hot archetype.

Who really is ready to commit himself in a ZOO deck ?

I can help building strategies/sideboard tables but I have not the time nor the ressources to test it properly.

Have fun Zoo.ers !!!

I played Punishing Zoo in five locals and even had the balls to take it to one 70+ man event (went 3-4) over the last few weeks. My overall match record with the deck is an uninspiring 12-14-1 so far.

Current list:

4x Noble Hierarch
4x Wild Nacatl
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Tarmogoyf
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
2x Taiga
2x Savannah
1x Plateau
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Karakas
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Wasteland

SB: 3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2x Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2x Containment Priest
SB: 2x Krosan Grip
SB: 1x Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1x Bojuka Bog
SB: 1x Crop Rotation
SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1x Pithing Needle
SB: 1x Fiery Justice


Its by no means a weak deck, but fast combo and Miracles are certainly concerning matchups. This list is not final but I've already incorporated what I think are several improvements compared to my first list on the previous page.

This style of list inevitably gets compared to Maverick. So far my assessment is that it is less versatile and grindy than Maverick, but slightly more consistent and significantly more aggressive. Also, you don't get blown out as hard by -x/-x effects since your men are bigger. Maverick is by no means an all around better deck-sure it puts up better results, but it is certainly a hell of a lot more popular.

[maharis]

what about a naya midrange approach with bop to reliably ramp into a t2 scab-clan and GSZ/SFM packages? this may be a really different deck from zoo as we know and love it, so understand if this isn't really the thread for it.

4 birds of paradise
4 stoneforge mystic
3 scab-clan berserker
2 knight of the reliquary
2 qasali pridemage
1 scavenging ooze
1 burning-tree shaman
1 fanatic of xenagos
1 gaddock teeg
1 dryad arbor

4 green sun's zenith
4 path/stp (not sure what's better)
4 lightning bolt
2 sylvan library
1 ajani, caller of the pride
1 batterskull
1 sword of fire and ice
1 sword of light and shadow

4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
3 savannah
3 wasteland
2 taiga
2 plateau
1 karakas
1 forest
1 plains

[Chatto]

Looks more like Maverick to me.

[Seraphix]

what about a naya midrange approach with bop to reliably ramp into a t2 scab-clan and GSZ/SFM packages? this may be a really different deck from zoo as we know and love it, so understand if this isn't really the thread for it.

...


I can say from experience that playing 4 Birds is a trap. I understand the desire to have access to Red mana but in actual games you'll find its less relevant than you think. Flying is good (particularly if you're running equips), but Hierarch is much stronger in most situations. With GSZ I would play only 1, maaaybe 2 Birds. Without GSZ I'd skip it entirely.

[Megadeus]

Yeah not a fan of birds unfortunately. Hierarch being able to deal damage on her own is not irrelevant. Plus exalted with the build with Domri rade is sick. I've gotten two pridemages before, attacked with one (4/4) past a 3/4 Goyf, he didn't block and I got to second main phase play domri and fight the goyf. The exalted is just so good.

Are there any trampling threats worth taking a look at that don't die to true name besides Mandrills?

[Curby]

Are there any trampling threats worth taking a look at that don't die to true name besides Mandrills?

Is Ghor-Clan Rampager entirely unplayable nowadays? That can Trample past TNN and survive, but keep in mind that a savvy Merfolk player may sandbag a Lord to kill your Trampler via Vial tricks.

[Megadeus]

Forgot about him. Already playing 3. I suppose that may be enough. Just have to make sure it's used wisely because you only get one shot with it.

[Seraphix]

Yeah not a fan of birds unfortunately. Hierarch being able to deal damage on her own is not irrelevant. Plus exalted with the build with Domri rade is sick. I've gotten two pridemages before, attacked with one (4/4) past a 3/4 Goyf, he didn't block and I got to second main phase play domri and fight the goyf. The exalted is just so good.

Are there any trampling threats worth taking a look at that don't die to true name besides Mandrills?

If you really want access to trample, Wolf Run or Skaarg, the Rage Pits could be worth considering. I don't think its hard to free up one or two slots for utility lands in most lists.

[Curby]

A pair of Rancor used to pay dividends in Zoo; not sure if there are better options now. Sure you have to time the cast to avoid removal but it's not so bad given the potential upside.

[Demonic_Attorney]

It amazes me that Zoo is not being played at all right now competitively in Legacy. Yes, it is not anywhere near tier one like it use to be; however, it should at least be 1.5 for a myriad of reasons as further discussed, infra.

Most people say that Miracles is what crushes this deck and subconsciously and automatically, players think of Terminus sweeping the battlefield of all of Zoo's creatures. However, when one actually conducts a proper, fair and complete analysis, it is conspicuous that Zoo has access to a lot of cards that causes Miracles nightmares. Witness for example the following:

Anti-Miracles Artifacts:

- Phyrexian Revoker
- Pithing Needle
- Null Rod
- Winter Orb

Anti-Miracles Red Cards:

- Eidolon of the Great Revel
- Red Elemental Blast
- Sulfuric Vortex

Anti-Miracles Green Cards:

- Sylvan Library
- Krosan Grip
- Gaddock Teeg

Anti-Miracles White Cards:

- Spirit of Labyrinth

In relation to Zoo's other palpable bad matchup, Sneak Show, the following Zoo cards are readily available and offers some exceptional answers to Sneak and Show as follows:

Anti-Show and Tell Cards:

- Red Elemental Blast
- Ashen Rider
- Containment Priest

Anti-Sneak Attack Cards:

- Krosan Grip
- Qasali Pridemage
- Gaddock Teeg
- Pithing Needle

Ostensibly, Zoo should at least be competitive against its worst matchups after sideboarding; however, it has not placed a top 16 at any major Legacy event in the last two (2) years and given the present metagame, it seems rather odd, especially considering some of the other rouge brew decks that have recently done well.

The last several posts on this thread have all advocated towards big zoo that is essentially Maverick. With the greatest of respect, if this deck is going to have any chance of success in the present Legacy metagame, I am firmly of the view that it has to be on the heels of playing fast, efficient and aggressive creatures buttressed by hate bears, lots of burn and a techy sideboard utilizing the aforementioned cards.

[Seraphix]

...

The last several posts on this thread have all advocated towards big zoo that is essentially Maverick. With the greatest of respect, if this deck is going to have any chance of success in the present Legacy metagame, I am firmly of the view that it has to be on the heels of playing fast, efficient and aggressive creatures buttressed by hate bears, lots of burn and a techy sideboard utilizing the aforementioned cards.

I agree with this. I'm working on a midrange build not because I think its the best Zoo deck, but because I have a lot of experience with that type of deck and it suits my playstyle.

Like you mentioned, there are a lot of strong, hateful cards a fast Zoo deck can utilize. I think Spirit of the Labyrinth is one of the most interesting options. It has a very aggressive body while still being disruptive, which Zoo can take advantage of like no other deck. Containment Priest was also a huge boon for this deck which flew under the radar. I'm not the person to build or play this version though.

[Megadeus]

That's what I'm trying to figure out right now. I'm looking to play zoo at the next legacy classic in atl next weekend. There are lots of options. You also missed choke against miracles and stony silence as well

[Warden]

@Demonic_Attorney: You wrote the most eloquent post on the Internet I've read in a very very long time.

IMO, you're correct about Naya having powerful tools. However, I disagree with Zoo being able to put them altogether for profit. In the time since Zoo was on players' radars, the game has further punished the archetype. Here are my thoughts on the format as a whole, which ties into the Zoo discussion.

1. "Aggro" in Legacy Really Doesn't Exist Beyond Burn
The reason for this is because decks shifted from away from "we need efficiency" to "we want value". What this means for Zoo is an invalidation of its core strategy: being very efficient. Look at the most cost-efficient creature you can run: Goyf. He's no longer the threat he used to be because he's only vanilla. Terminus wipes him and your entire vanilla team out. Abrupt Decay, Swords, and Path indiscriminately kill Goyf & Co. Burn still hangs around in the meta due to there being a critical mass of R = 3 damage spells + fetchlands are a thing.

2. "Blue-Based Midrange" Replaced "Zoo Aggro"
When traditional Zoo hit the midgame, it ran out of gas. Since its demise, we've seen an absolute glut of blue-based aggro-control decks that embrace the mid-game. Threshold.dec existed alongside Zoo.dec many years ago and both used Goyf as a cornerstone card. However, to add to point #1, even these decks function without goyf. Sure, Canadian and BUG can still play Goyf, but we have seen these threshold.dec offshoots more towards UR, Grixis, and 4C DRS. The overarching concept is that these "blue aggro control midrange" decks do something Zoo never did: they provide Zoo's clock while also packing counter-magic to thwart the opponent. Instead of needing to race the opponent with Kird Ape and Goyf, they shifted attention to daze/force/bstorm/ponder + burn or discard + a creature suite of Delver (the better kird ape), Deathrite Shaman (a demi-planeswalker for 1 hybrid mana), Young Pyromancer (the poster-child for "value"), Mentor (value), and Delve creatures. Other Zoo and it-could-have-been-in-Zoo cards like Goblin Guide or M.Swiftspear are absorbed into the delver/drs decks.

3. Green Decks are Currently at a Crossroads in Legacy
I feel what you're ultimately touching upon is green's lack of an identity in the format. "Green" in Legacy means you're playing combo elves or green-based aggro. We can skip Elves, since that's its own well-fleshed out idea.
What we're left with is "Green" really functioning as "GW" (Teeg, KotR) or "GB" (decay, using all abilities of DRS). "GR" is fringe at best (bloodbraid? maybe some nic fit cards) and "GU" doesn't really exist.
Interestingly, all the green-based creature decks in legacy (Junk, Jund, Maverick, Aggro Loam, Elves, Nic Fit) find some reason to run Zenith and Scavenging Ooze. While those 2 cards are fantastic, all those decks suffer from the same problem of not knowing what direction to go in.

I would argue that Zoo's aggro plan died and became URx delver (you have an efficient clock, burn, and can counter things). The hyper-efficient aggro strategy still exists in Burn.dec.
Big Zoo/Zoo Midrange became Maverick/Junk/Jund, who are all currently suffering from the format not favoring their strategies.

[Megadeus]

I think I'll be going into this weekend with this list:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Hooting Mandrills
2 Grim Lavamancer

3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress

2 Domri Rade

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Skarrg, The Rage Pits

SB:
4 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke

[Richard Cheese]

I think I'll be going into this weekend with this list:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Hooting Mandrills
2 Grim Lavamancer

3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress

2 Domri Rade

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Skarrg, The Rage Pits

SB:
4 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke


This list is looking severely light on Gibbons. I suggest adding more Gibbons.

[Megadeus]

Maybe -Apes, +Gibbons?

http://i.cdn.turner.com/asfix/repository//8a25c3920eaf5fa6010eaffccf083bbd/thumbnail_5356201731709199446.jpg

[Curby]

So what does Zoo do against a combo deck boarding Pyroclasm? The usual suspects like Teeg, Thalia, Canonist all die to it, and we have no Moms for protection.

I know I used to put Mindbreak Trap in my Zoos for combo; not sure if that's viable anymore.

+1 to Warden. The main problems I see with Zoo are endurance and vulnerability. Zoo was always seen as the slower, more midgame-viable brother to Goyf Sligh, but even that wasn't enough with the printing of Terminus, Toxic Deluge, etc. That's why I like Sylvan Library in Zoo: it enhances both mid-game endurance and reduces vulnerability to sweepers.

Also surprised to find lists without Eidolon. Usually Magic seems to involve playing your game more quickly than the opponent (Charbelcher, Tendrils) or punishing the opponent for trying to play their game (Chalice, Eidolon, Thalia).

[Ricardio]

So what does Zoo do against a combo deck boarding Pyroclasm? The usual suspects like Teeg, Thalia, Canonist all die to it, and we have no Moms for protection.

I know I used to put Mindbreak Trap in my Zoos for combo; not sure if that's viable anymore.

+1 to Warden. The main problems I see with Zoo are endurance and vulnerability. Zoo was always seen as the slower, more midgame-viable brother to Goyf Sligh, but even that wasn't enough with the printing of Terminus, Toxic Deluge, etc. That's why I like Sylvan Library in Zoo: it enhances both mid-game endurance and reduces vulnerability to sweepers.

Also surprised to find lists without Eidolon. Usually Magic seems to involve playing your game more quickly than the opponent (Charbelcher, Tendrils) or punishing the opponent for trying to play their game (Chalice, Eidolon, Thalia).

Domri Rade and Hammer of Purphoros are insane in the modern zoo deck so I don't see those cant be tried. EVERYTHING WE PLAY ALREADY DIES TO ABRUPT DECAY.

A way to deal with pyroclasm would be burrenton forge tender, another modern stand out. I think splashing blue for geist might be the way to go. t1 hierarch t2 geist is super strong. buddy of mine has been jamming it to much success in modern but AGAIN zoo does little to no success in legacy as of lately so ideas must be created somewhere.

just my thoughts.

[Megadeus]

Went 4-3. Good for top 32 somehow. Mandrills was mixed reviews. Ghor-Clan was great. 4 Pridemage was great. Beat 12 Post, Miracles, UWR Stoneblade, and ANT. Lost to ANT, 12 Post, and Death and Taxes. I think I probably should've beaten Death and Taxes. I'll write up a report if anyone is interested. Had a blast though

[paradigm72]

Definitely interested in hearing more Megadeus! I'm curious especially about your matches against Miracles and UWR Stoneblade - guessing Pridemage was clutch there?

[Myelectronicdays]

Yeah would love a write up. Thanks!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Megadeus]

So I had a pretty average weekend with zoo. On Saturday I decided to play the challenge. Here's the list I decided on:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Phyrexian Revoker (couldn't find Teegs for the tourney)
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Hooting Mandrills

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress

2 Domri Rade

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
3 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits

SB:
2 Stony Silence
4 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Electrickery
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Choke
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Krosan Grip

My matchups were as follows:
Round 1: Andrew Wright on Burn
We went to 3 games but in the last one he was on the play and I couldn't stabilize. I think it's a winnable match but being on the play seems pretty important.

Round 2: Jon Janssen on painful truths junk with siege rhinos
He runs thought seize, bitterblossom and truths so the games where I got a good start he really couldn't stop the bleeding and I won.

Round 3: Aluren
Game 1 he starts on a fairly normal shardless game so I figure it's that. At some point he casts dream stalker so my revoker off of my bloodbraid elf names cavern harpy. Eventually he decays the revoker and goes off before I find my price to kill him. Game two I get a blistering start and am poised to kill him turn 5 but he decays my Thalia, casts aluren, shardless into strix into recruiter off the strix to kill me. Such is the zoo life

I dropped and went home and wrote up my deck list and got ready for Sunday.

I get there, figure out why my deck was so weird and buy some unglued basics for the deck.

Round 1: 12 Post
Game 1 I blitz him and rampager him and kill him by turn 4.
Game 2 I have some pressure and red blast his first show and tell, but he has a second one to put in prime time and gain some life. I have the path for prime time though so I keep hitting him for 11 or so each turn while he continues to search up glimmerposts. I cast a lethal price of Progress off of cascade but it gets pyroblasted and his crop rotation during my attack for chasm locks it up.
Game 3 i blast his show and tell but my clock isn't great. My revoker turns off his expedition maps though and he has to kgrip it. I find stony at some point as well and start chipping 10 at a time. At some point he maps end of turn for chasm and I price him for 20 or so.

Round 2: Miracles
Game 1 it was a beating. I just kept pressure up and he clearly wasn't overly experienced. He flips top to miracle terminus and I blew up top in response with pridemage. I eventually close it out with bloodbraid.
Game 2 also wasn't close. I revoker his top, he swords, I kgrip his counter balance, then play stony and eventually kill him.

Round 3 Death and Taxes
Game 1 i misplay I think when I turn 2 blood rush and get wrecked by mom. I figured I'd burn him out but his draw was really good.
Game 2 I have it all. It's not close.
Game 3 we both milligan. Him to 5 me to 6. Unfortunately I keep a Savannah hand and he has the nut mom into stone forge into double wasteland and I get rekt.

Round 4: ANT
Game 1 my hand is set up to play a solid long game with bolts, lavamancer, and bloodbraid. Unfortunately he kills me at 1 life because my lavamancer wasn't a Kird Ape.
Game 2 I have a solid hand that can get a turn 2 Thalia. He kills me on his turn 1.

Round 5 12 Post
Game 1 i get a solid start but he has a turn 3 show and tell and I can't keep up and don't draw price.
Game 2 I mull to 5 but it's a good one. I draw my second land. T1 Ape, T2 Pridemage, T3 Red blast your show and tell and he dies.
Game 3 he has yet another turn 3 show and tell and I can't beat it since I mulled to 5 again.

Round 6 URW Stoneblade
Game 1 he gets stoneforge, forces my pridemage and I feel bad. But I play hooting Mandrills and he can't attack into it. Eventually I build a board that makes it so he can't profitably attack. I kill the skull with a pride mage and kill him. He never gained life off of his turn 3 batterskull.
Game 2 I blow him out with rampager on Thalia when he stoneforges in batterskull (first strike and trample interact favorably) but he lands 2 True Names and a jitte and I lose.
Game 3 i keep a solid hand and work my way into position to force him to tap out. I choke him and he dies shortly after.

Round 7 ANT
Game 1 i think I knew he was on it so I keep a Thalia revoker hand and hope I survive to turn 2. I do and I win. Game 2 he emptys for 12 on turn 2 and I can't find my electrickery.
Game 3 i have a kird ape stony silence, surgical hand. He whiffs on therapy naming Thalia and I stony him. He goes for ad nauseam from 13 with 1 mana floating and his land drop made so I surgical his dark ritual and I kill him next turn.

[Curby]

He flips top to miracle terminus and I blew up top in response with pridemage.

So how does this work? From what I can tell, he puts Top's second ability on the stack, and in response you put Pridemage's ability on the stack targeting Top. Pridemage's ability resolves, so Top and Pridemage are now in their respective yards with Top's ability still on the stack. Top resolves, he draws Terminus, but the Top isn't around so it remains in the yard. Miracle triggers on Terminus and resolves, so he plays :w: to wipe the board.

Did something else happen? Do I have my interactions wrong?

[Ricardio]

So how does this work? From what I can tell, he puts Top's second ability on the stack, and in response you put Pridemage's ability on the stack targeting Top. Pridemage's ability resolves, so Top and Pridemage are now in their respective yards with Top's ability still on the stack. Top resolves, he draws Terminus, but the Top isn't around so it remains in the yard. Miracle triggers on Terminus and resolves, so he plays :w: to wipe the board.

Did something else happen? Do I have my interactions wrong?

He was just getting rid of the top. he wasn't able to stop the terminus (fk that card). You are correct.

How were the lavamancers?

[Megadeus]

So how does this work? From what I can tell, he puts Top's second ability on the stack, and in response you put Pridemage's ability on the stack targeting Top. Pridemage's ability resolves, so Top and Pridemage are now in their respective yards with Top's ability still on the stack. Top resolves, he draws Terminus, but the Top isn't around so it remains in the yard. Miracle triggers on Terminus and resolves, so he plays :w: to wipe the board.

Did something else happen? Do I have my interactions wrong?

That is correct. But if pride mage is the only dude or one of the only man you have in play, then it's definitely worth it. Another useful thing to do that I actually missed in that same match is in response to a fetch land with a pride mage in play you can blow up the top, forcing them to put it on the top of their deck which they now must shuffle due to the fetch land.


Lavamancers were alright. Didn't get to use them much. I think I'm keeping them around for now. I boarded them out in both 12 Post matches, both ANT matches, and I think the miracles match (which I think he's not terrible against miracles but I had so many cards I wanted to board in)

[Curby]

That is correct. But if pride mage is the only dude or one of the only man you have in play, then it's definitely worth it. Another useful thing to do that I actually missed in that same match is in response to a fetch land with a pride mage in play you can blow up the top, forcing them to put it on the top of their deck which they now must shuffle due to the fetch land

Heh I did this against Miracles when I was on green splash D&T, and felt really proud of myself. Then he played the second Top he was sandbagging in his hand. :cry:

[Ricardio]

That is correct. But if pride mage is the only dude or one of the only man you have in play, then it's definitely worth it. Another useful thing to do that I actually missed in that same match is in response to a fetch land with a pride mage in play you can blow up the top, forcing them to put it on the top of their deck which they now must shuffle due to the fetch land.


Lavamancers were alright. Didn't get to use them much. I think I'm keeping them around for now. I boarded them out in both 12 Post matches, both ANT matches, and I think the miracles match (which I think he's not terrible against miracles but I had so many cards I wanted to board in)

No goblin guides? Have you thought about splashing a trop and adding geist? hes kind of amazing. Also, hammer of purphoros is insane and some number of eidolon seem necessary in your mainboard or at the very least in your 75.

[Curby]

Guide seems more suited to all-in "Goyf Sligh"-like builds of Zoo. I don't even run it in my fast Zoo build because it seems to focus the deck a bit too much on the early game for my taste. The Hammer is cute, but I wonder if it's too low-impact. If I didn't have enough cards to use my mana, I'd likely prefer to play more draw spells (Library, Domri) instead.

With all this talk of Hammers and Geists though, how many 3-4 drops should such a deck play? I mean occasionally you'll get a ton of value off a Broodbraid, but you've only got about a 50/50 chance of even seeing one by turn 5 (math (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1a1fP-qiYh-p-vKqa70ROoKkPRdQlp5G-pHWRcdzm2ow/edit?usp=sharing)) and the deck doesn't ramp.

[Ricardio]

Guide seems more suited to all-in "Goyf Sligh"-like builds of Zoo. I don't even run it in my fast Zoo build because it seems to focus the deck a bit too much on the early game for my taste. The Hammer is cute, but I wonder if it's too low-impact. If I didn't have enough cards to use my mana, I'd likely prefer to play more draw spells (Library, Domri) instead.

With all this talk of Hammers and Geists though, how many 3-4 drops should such a deck play? I mean occasionally you'll get a ton of value off a Broodbraid, but you've only got about a 50/50 chance of even seeing one by turn 5 (math (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1a1fP-qiYh-p-vKqa70ROoKkPRdQlp5G-pHWRcdzm2ow/edit?usp=sharing)) and the deck doesn't ramp.

Im just trying to add to the innovation process. I do not believe they all need to be jammed into the deck, I just want opinions on them and how this deck can get better.

[Megadeus]

Agreed on guide. He's not my play style. Eidolon I think is probably really good. I'm really trying to think of a way to get scab clan berserkers in there. Bloodbraid is fine. I just really enjoy casting the card and it's generally a nice refill against miracles and such. Another thing I'm considering is going even bigger and trying to play some of the new eldrazi, but I think that may be suited to a different deck

[Curby]

Thanks, but any suggestion is much weaker without the important part of suggesting what to remove. What card is doing such a bad job that Geists and Hammers can do better?

Regardless of total costs, I really don't think this deck can easily support a fourth color. I mean you can "just add a trop" but then you fold even harder to decks packing Wastelands or Blood Moons. Plus Merfolk can walk through your creatures (though historically Merfolk has been an easy win for Zoo). There have been a fair number of Delver Zoo proposals:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20129-Deck-Blue-Zoo

that don't really hold water, but there's always the hope that we'll see Nacatls and Delvers in the same 60. (Or Nacatls and Geists, but that's an even bigger stretch IMO.)

[Megadeus]

Going to try out 4 Oath of Nissa this week. Cut back a couple of kird ape, a land, and something else. In just solitaire it seems like it is decent. Maybe the added consistency will be great. It is making me want a slightly creature heavier side board though since this gives us better chances th find the dudes on time.

[cherson]

hi guys,

I play zoo since ages but I dropped it recently because I can't find a way to beat the top decks.
great that u are still working on the deck and try to find a way.

what do u thing ab collected company ?

[Vandalize]

I've taken an old Zoo list and added some new stuff to the sideboard, it has been working fine in MWS, being Miracles the worst matchup, by far.

List:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Goblin Guide
3 Kird Ape
3 Loam Lion
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
SB: 3 Choke
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Price of Progress
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt

Hooting Mandrills sometimes suck with an active Grim Lavamancer, but trample is important. Maybe switch for Ghor-Clan Rampager?

[Megadeus]

If you haven't used Ghor Clan yet, I suggest it. It's been stellar most of the time. I guess you're more an all in zoo aggro deck hence the bad miracles match up. Pridemage is an excellent card for helping that and the stone forge match ups, but it's about play style.

As for collected company I think it's better in the bigger variants that run Smiter/KOTR or something because they are better to get off of it.

[Richard Cheese]

If you haven't used Ghor Clan yet, I suggest it. It's been stellar most of the time. I guess you're more an all in zoo aggro deck hence the bad miracles match up. Pridemage is an excellent card for helping that and the stone forge match ups, but it's about play style.

As for collected company I think it's better in the bigger variants that run Smiter/KOTR or something because they are better to get off of it.

Can confirm, Ghor-Clan is sick. Ability can't be countered, trample is extremely relevant with Mentor tokens everywhere, and he's surprisingly castable against a lot of decks. A 4/4 trample for 4 sounds pretty underwhelming on paper, but he doesn't die to Bolt or Decay, and is hard to hit with Counterbalance, all features that are pretty rare in Zoo.

[Ricardio]

Can confirm, Ghor-Clan is sick. Ability can't be countered, trample is extremely relevant with Mentor tokens everywhere, and he's surprisingly castable against a lot of decks. A 4/4 trample for 4 sounds pretty underwhelming on paper, but he doesn't die to Bolt or Decay, and is hard to hit with Counterbalance, all features that are pretty rare in Zoo.

NOTE: you can needle/revoker bloodrush which can be awkward.

Collected company is not for this deck. 4/5 mana is clinical death. when you company, you are going for a combo(melira, anafenza, etc) or trying to net mana(2 three drops)/advantage(2 goyfs).

[Megadeus]

Went 4-0 tonight with Oath of Nissa. Card was solid all night long. Price of Progress continues to be an extremely great card to give reach. Beat Merfolk, MUD, Deathblade, and Grixis (ID but I won 2-0 in games for fun).

[ESG]

Went 4-0 tonight with Oath of Nissa. Card was solid all night long. Price of Progress continues to be an extremely great card to give reach. Beat Merfolk, MUD, Deathblade, and Grixis (ID but I won 2-0 in games for fun).

Nice finish, Megadeus. Not to take away from your victory, but those seem like favorable matchups, and I'm not really seeing how Oath of Nissa would play a role in them. I like Oath of Nissa and its card selection, but Zoo isn't the first deck I would've thought to test it in. I don't see it solving any of the deck's problems, which are Miracles and combo decks. Do you agree?

Personally, the two directions I've been looking to are more of a burn focus (Eidolon of the Great Revel and Scab-Clan Berserker along with Price of Progress) or a midrange focus with Warping Wail (which would take up some removal slots). The latter would require a major retooling of the mana base, but Warping Wail answers a wide array of problem cards while being less situational than some of the hatebear builds people have tried.

[Xod]

Can you share your current decklist Deus?

So far I like your list, getting into Zoo as a noob. :-)

Oh and would Lightning Helix or Boros Charm be a good replacement for Chain Lightning? I think they can do more for this deck.

[cherson]

nice finish indeed but I also more into the burn direction. my current list looks like that.

creatures (28):
4x wild nacatl
3x kird ape
3x vexing devil
3x eidolon of the great reveal
3x qasali pridemage
3x thalia
1x phyrexian revoker
2x scavenging ooze
3x scab-clan berserker
3x bloodbraid

instants (12):
4x bolt
3x helix
2x path to exile
1x swords
2x price of progress

lands (20):
4x foothills
4x windswept
3x plateau
3x taiga
2x savannah
2x mountain
1x forest
1x plains

[Megadeus]

Oath of Nissa doesn't necessarily shore up any specific match up. It just gives you more consistency which I think is a larger weakness of the deck. I'm really not sure how to feel about the miracles match up. Last 2-3 times I've played it I've won. Scab-Clan Berserker has been kind of underwhelming for me, but it's one of the better haste guys which is really what I'm going for. Also the extra forest and plains should be arid mesa, and in a larger event I don't think the sideboard is exactly what I'd play starting with cutting grudges for Sony silence. I also believe Chain Lightning to be important for its ability to kill a death rite on the draw

4 Oath of Nissa
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Hooting Mandrills

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress

2 Domri Rade

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits

SB:
4 Pyroblast
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Choke
1 Krosan Grip
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Electrickery

[Xod]

Mmmm, Oath of Nissa feels like a onetime Top effect or a brainstorm. It replaces itself. Sometimes you need a Path, Bolt or Burn spell, with Oath you will push the even further down. I think you can better put in 2 or 3 tops. Or even Sylvan Library. With top you can at least shuffle it away with fetches.

[Ralf]

Mmmm, Oath of Nissa feels like a onetime Top effect or a brainstorm. It replaces itself. Sometimes you need a Path, Bolt or Burn spell, with Oath you will push the even further down. I think you can better put in 2 or 3 tops. Or even Sylvan Library. With top you can at least shuffle it away with fetches.

Actually, you put them back on THE BOTTOM of your library in any order. This is more like "Scry 3 and draw 1".

[Megadeus]

Actually, you put them back on THE BOTTOM of your library in any order. This is more like "Scry 3 and draw 1".

Right. It's a miniature impulse. It increases consistency. I don't think I need to explain why ponder is a good card, and this is a ponder that we get to play

[Xod]

That's the whole problem with the card. As it is no ponder, you can draw 1 card of the 3 (no instant or sorcery) and you MUST put the other cards on the bottom. Even if they are good.
So when in search of a removal spell, this is a bad card to play. Well it digs deeper but you might see that needed path to exile go in front of your eyes :-) I might be complety wrong here.

[apocolyps6]

If you need a removal spell, why are you casting Oath? That just isn't what the card does.

[Megadeus]

In my list at least, it does find Domri Rade which is "removal". Sure it doesn't find a bolt or something, but it increases the likelihood of being able to keep hands even if they may be land light or threat light. I mean otherwise you simply play more dudes or more removal, but there's a reason that decks with ponder/BS are generally better than those without. Consistency.

[Hopo]

The issue with Oath is that it's a cantrip that can't find removal, Domri or many of your sideboard cards.

[Megadeus]

Except it does find Domri, and the board can be, and already has been, altered to help there. Faerie Macabre over surgical. You can play Revoker over something like stony silence. You can play Ingot Chewer over grudge I if you'd like. I mean would you rather simply play Mirris Guile?

[Hopo]

Except it does find Domri

I stand corrected :) I was too busy bashing Oath, as planewalkers are the whole point of Oath cards.

How about Sylvan Library, if you absolutely want to play library manipulation? Or, you know, Tarmogoyf?

[Megadeus]

Library doesn't happen until turn 3. Goyf is just a vanilla man. By playing hate guys you increase percentages against unfair and control decks. You reduce your percentages against the fair decks, but I'd rather have the tools to beat unfair and miracles and try to out play people in the fair matchup

[Ralf]

Library doesn't happen until turn 3. Goyf is just a vanilla man. By playing hate guys you increase percentages against unfair and control decks. You reduce your percentages against the fair decks, but I'd rather have the tools to beat unfair and miracles and try to out play people in the fair matchup

Goyf vs Nacatl/Kird Ape.

Both are vanilla and I can see Goyf a bit better "overall" since you are playing Oath.

But well, this would look more and more Big Zoo...

I have tested your list a couple of games against RUG Delver (4 spell pierce 2 dismember). Opposite Goyf is a problem.

I'll try Oath in my list instead of N.Hierarch to assess whether or not the card is good.

For those interested, here is my updated list as I made a couple of tweaks:

Zizibear by Ralf

1 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Plateau
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath

2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

2 Domri Rade

4 Oath of Nissa

2 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile

1 Chain Lightning

SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Armageddon
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage

Noble Hierarch are replaced by Oath for testing purposes. N.H is great & weak:
- It provides accel unlike Oath
- It provides Exaltation
- But Oath is a far better topdeck

Wild Nacatl were replaced by Goyf. Both are "vanilla" but in a more midrange perspective (like my list), Goyf > Nacatl. I have lost too many battles to opposite Goyf.

SB is still a pile as I didn't have any spare time to improve it.

[Megadeus]

Finished 2-2 tonight. Played like poop on cam against a death and taxes opponent who had it all. Also lost to BUG Delver. His goyf got huge. It is difficult to beat. Also true name is a beating. I beat deadguy who drew garbage, and beat esper mentor. Domri hasn't really been too amazing as of late. Dunno. Might pick up hierachs and go a bit bigger. Also may run some smiters because hymn has surprisingly been a beating

[Xod]

Was also thinking about putting Smither in, but the room in the deck is cramped already. (btw, is it possible that you play 61 cards in your deck?) With nic-fit I don't mind, but with zoo? Maybe I'm not seeing it.

I will be playing this deck next week Friday (hopefully getting all the cards in by then) and I think I will replace 1 chain lightning with 1 path to exile. The Chain might be handier against combo decks and to race the other deck. But path can solve our bigger creature matchup easier. (against BUG they still got counterspells)

[Xod]

Sorry for reposting.

Would the Smithers fit in the side? Because you will 'mainly' use them for the BUG matchup (they will help against Miracles and such) But if you are going to put them in the side and mainly against the discard, wouldn't Obstinate Baloth be better?

Ok, counterable, and 1 mana extra, but on the other side, you can side them in against Burn also. (on the other hand, you have no real mana acceleration, and turn 4 might be late) Nevermind that I suggested Baloth :-D The Firewalkers are better on that part.

[Megadeus]

Yeah I mean baloth is fine, but smiter in hand is 100% hittingt the board. And coming down on turn 2 off of hierarch is really sweet. Turn 2 Smiter into like a turn 3 Pridemage you're bringing it with a 6/6 on turn 3

Also Skarrg did fucking work. Lingering souls can't beat the card. Whoever suggested it, it's been very solid.

[cherson]

Baloth is also not workable with bloodbraid right? I play two smither in the sb for exactly that reason and because I have two pox decks in my area.

[Megadeus]

Went 3-1, win in top 4 and draw finals with my deck. Tried out burning tree emissary. It was interesting. Went: Lose to burn, beat miracles, beat miracles, beat Death and Taxes, Beat Esper control with EE and Narsets. Oath still very good. Burning Tree was meh. Probably better in a different version. Skarrg is the nut. Lightning Bolts are good cards.

[Xod]

Can you send a list what you were using?

Interested in the Narsets, do you run blue? And isn't the cost to great?

[zulander]

Can you send a list what you were using?

Interested in the Narsets, do you run blue? And isn't the cost to great?

He beat the deck playing Narsets and EE, not that he used these cards to beat the control deck.

[Megadeus]

Someone 5-0'd a legacy league with my last list with a different side board and land configuration. Was it one of you? If so your list needs more skarrg the rage pits :p

[Stuuch]

Someone 5-0'd a legacy league with my last list with a different side board and land configuration. Was it one of you? If so your list needs more skarrg the rage pits :p

Hi Megadeus, I was playing your list. Thank You for sharing it. It was a pleasure to play. I did not use the pits because it only taps for colorless mana. I played Karakas for extra show and tell / reanimator hate.

Match ups were:

Esper Stoneblade 2-0
Omnitell 2-1
Burn 2-1
Miracles 2-0
Shardless 2-0

[Megadeus]

Hi Megadeus, I was playing your list. Thank You for sharing it. It was a pleasure to play. I did not use the pits because it only taps for colorless mana. I played Karakas for extra show and tell / reanimator hate.

Match ups were:

Esper Stoneblade 2-0
Omnitell 2-1
Burn 2-1
Miracles 2-0
Shardless 2-0
Congrats! How'd it feel? Were the oaths good for you? Did the matches against the three fair decks feel pretty good?

[Stuuch]

Congrats! How'd it feel? Were the oaths good for you? Did the matches against the three fair decks feel pretty good?

The deck felt great and Oaths were great too. They usually found what I needed, mostly pressure but one time I wanted to find a land with it. Burn and Shardless felt tough. Esper and Miracles felt a lot easier but my opponents kept sketchy hands or at least bad hands against Zoo :). Scab-clan Berserker was the card that suprised me the most. It felt really good when I drew it against Miracles, Shardless and Esper. Qasali Pridemage was also very good but everyone knows that.

[Megadeus]

What do you guys think of retribution of the meek to fight the eldrazi menace?

[cherson]

Is it such a big thing? Tbh I didn't play a lot the last week's but isn't just this 5/5 haste trample a problem? All others are in bolt range?

[ironclad8690]

Is it such a big thing? Tbh I didn't play a lot the last week's but isn't just this 5/5 haste trample a problem? All others are in bolt range?


Thought-Knot Seer
Endbringer
Reality Smasher
Endless One


:wink:

Hell even Roast seems pretty well positioned right now. Doesn't get hit by Chalice @ 1 like so many of our other staples

[Megadeus]

Thought-Knot Seer
Endbringer
Reality Smasher
Endless One


:wink:

Hell even Roast seems pretty well positioned right now. Doesn't get hit by Chalice @ 1 like so many of our other staples

I think I'd rather simply dismember, but yeah roast is pretty fine too.

I think I'll be playing zoo for our local quarterly. Should be about 50 people. What is better at the 3 slot you think? Smiter or Scab Clan Berserker? I expect a fair number of BUG decks which I think both are actually decent against.

[Mirrislegend]

Have you considered Kessig Wolf Run over Skarrg? I know spare mana is not a common occurrence, but that +X/+0 can be really threatening when you run out of cards in hand and are trying to push through the last few points of damage.

Also, I'm surprised to see no Goblin Guides in the lists here. Feeding lands to your opponent sucks, but the tempo gain cannot be underestimated!

[Megadeus]

There have been times I've wanted it, but being able to pump a man up to survive a true name block is pretty huge. 4 toughness is a very difficult toughness to deal with. It also makes it tough I've found for the mentor decks to profitably use their tokens to block and trade on defense. Maybe a different play style, but I tend to favor a longer game and skarrg allows me to force bad chump blocks

[zulander]

I played a Collected Company list recently and it felt great, although I did lose to elves which was annoying :(

I think Company is the card we've been looking for. It's great against a lot of our problem matchups and can be cast at instant speed.

[Megadeus]

I played a Collected Company list recently and it felt great, although I did lose to elves which was annoying :(

I think Company is the card we've been looking for. It's great against a lot of our problem matchups and can be cast at instant speed.

I can dig it. It's a better bloodbraid elf a lot of the time I can imagine. Makes you a bit vulnerable to spell pierce, but that also is one more card your opponent has to think about when boarding. What's your creature suite? Are you still on a bigger zoo plan with knights and goofs? Also I suppose you don't run oath then.

[Ziveeman]

So I've been looking to get into MTGO Legacy since I don't have time to play paper that much and I saw the 5-0 Zoo list. It was cheaper than Burn and I was kind of looking to tune a Zoo deck as my MTGO deck anyway so it all worked out. Glad to see the developers are on this thread :) I played a lot of Zoo back in the day (2011 and before, really), and also tried to work on Zoo last year.

Unfortunately, my results are a little medicore - I think I played 4 Leagues and had exactly 50% win rate. I guess it's probably okay for a deck that really isn't a deck anymore but still. There are times when the deck shines but the flood is real and I've died so many times by just drawing too many lands. Of course, partially the consequence of playing a non-Blue deck but I digress.

My thoughts on testing the exact 75:

Oath of Nissa - Oath of Nissa is great...to an extent. I like it and I don't mind it, but there are definitely times when it felt...underwhelming. Namely in post-board (since I'm boarding in a bunch of instants/sorceries I tend to board some Oaths out) and also revealing a Kird Ape sometimes doesn't feel all that great - I wish we had some harder hitting stuff to find with it. But it's great in the combo matchup in helping find more Thalias/Canonists and such.

The flex land - Karakas has been absolutely wonderful for me in the Miracles matchup. Protecting Thalia/Teeg from Terminus and other removal spells has been fantastic. The other two lands I've seen mentioned here (Skaarg, Kessig) seem good too but likely in different matchups. Kessig is probably good in the Miracles matchup so perhaps wouldn't mind that.

Bloodbraid Elf - The Thalia/Bloodbraid interaction is a bit awkward but man, Bloodbraid really helps the Miracles matchup in game one. Collected Company would be neat too though (MTGO price will stop me from testing this though).

Scab-Clan - This card is great. I wish I drew it a little more frequently to judge it, but it's just great against Delver and Miracles. The renown is also notable for helping dodge Massacre out of ANT.

Lack of card advantage - This is probably my biggest issue so far - I wish there were more Bloodbraid and Domri type cards in the list to help us recoup the card advantage we need when grinding out certain matchups (Miracles, Delver, etc). Oftentimes I would lose a game after getting them down to like 3 or 4 life because I drew a land one turn and their turn they drew a Brainstorm.

Matchups

Miracles - This was the matchup I was the most concerned about. Game 1 is a bit rough but Stuuch's sideboard seemed pretty solid for it - all of the Grips, Chokes, etc gives us a lot of outs, even if we get T1 Top, T2 Counterbalanced. I've even manage to beat Counterbalance/Top/Jace lock.

Elves - Grim Lavamancer seems like it would make this matchup easy but I'm pretty sure I've lost to it every single time. Seems like a problem fixable in the sideboard but there aren't enough pieces in the sideboard to do it.

Conclusions:

Oath of Nissa is a neat addition to the deck. The dig is definitely something that Zoo needed, but sometimes it doesn't feel like enough. So I've made the following changes so far (a little restricted by budget):

Maindeck:
+2 Sylvan Library
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Chain Lightning
-1 Qasali Pridemage
-1 Oath of Nissa

Sideboard
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Kor Firewalker

I presume the Firewalkers there were for Burn - I figure Jitte solves that issue but also helps other matchups (Elves & D&T). Sylvan Library feels almost necessary to as a means to get card advantage in those matchups. Sure it takes a turn to take an effect but you're rarely ever casting an Oath of Nissa to win that same turn vs Miracles so I'll take the turn-by-turn advantage that Library has.

I want to find some room for Hooting Mandrils too. It would be nice to have a big beater in the deck that costs 1 mana in those Wasteland matchups. I'm not really sure how to fit it in though.

Here's a wild thought that I'm just going to throw out there - After getting Terminus'd so much by Miracles, I kind of thought that Dryad Arbor might be good in the deck since it's an easy way to get a creature onto the battlefield (also gets through Countertop lock too)...and it also combos well with Ghor-Clan to deal a bunch of damage to an opponent or a Jace after a Terminus. Several games where I got my Miracles opponent to 3-4 life and a Dryad Arbor would have just finished them off. It's a little crazy, I know.

[Megadeus]

Fell into a trap and convinced myself to play spirit of the lab over the weekend. Poor idea. It sucked. Thalia is infinitely better. Went 0-3 drop in the carpet capital of the world. Tried out smiter tonight and it was solid. I simply drew well. I somehow keep beating humility. Think I might drop Domri. He's been fairly mediocre. Not sure if I'll replace him with Library or just more dudes. I played against Eldrazi for the first time. Actually seems pretty alright if you get a decent start.

[cherson]

0-3.. So u lost against eldrazi as well I assume. How was the general presence of the deck? Did u try some new sb cards?

[Megadeus]

0-3.. So u lost against eldrazi as well I assume. How was the general presence of the deck? Did u try some new sb cards?

0-3 was against Miracles, UR Delver (I didn't think he'd keep in spell pierce game 2 and he drew double delver), and 4 Color Loam.

I beat Eldrazi last night. He never drew TKS. Probably a tough card to beat, but on the play I think it's a decent match up. T1 Nacatl into Pridemage is tough for them to beat

I did change the board up a bit. It feels much better.

2 Elecktrickery
1 KGrip
2 Stony Silence
3 Pyroblast
1 Path to Exile
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Banishing Light (solid out to random permanents, doesn't trigger Reality Smasher)
1 Choke

Might just cut the KGrip and go with a 2nd Light. Improves the SnT match a bit.

[Curby]

Lack of card advantage - This is probably my biggest issue so far - I wish there were more Bloodbraid and Domri type cards in the list to help us recoup the card advantage we need when grinding out certain matchups (Miracles, Delver, etc). Oftentimes I would lose a game after getting them down to like 3 or 4 life because I drew a land one turn and their turn they drew a Brainstorm.
...
Oath of Nissa is a neat addition to the deck. The dig is definitely something that Zoo needed, but sometimes it doesn't feel like enough.
...
Maindeck:
+2 Sylvan Library
...
-1 Oath of Nissa


There we go.

As a long-time Zoo player and Library promoter, I have to admit I'm rather surprised by the Oath love in the past few pages. This isn't a Delver deck with a greedy manabase where we are (tying up valuable time/mana) searching for our third-color land. This isn't a control deck where we're searching for specific answers to opposing threats.

Someone mentioned that decks with cantrips are better than those without them, but I'd call that overly-sweeping. Pros and grinders seem to like varied powerful options and the cantrips to find them, so they gravitate towards Blue in part due to playstyle. No one would argue that all decks would be better with Brainstorm: the best example is Merfolk, which is highly analogous to Zoo: very aggressive, works with swarms rather than single fatties a'la Reanimator, is highly consistent due to use of playsets of cards, uses widely-applicable disruption instead of silver bullets, and has better use for its mana than spending it dredging up yet more copies of the same cards.

The point of Library isn't to go through your deck searching for an ass-saving Terminus or to ensure your second land drop, but rather to refill in the midgame, and allow card selection and optional card advantage when you've already set up a board position. Since you aren't expecting to play it until turn 3+, and since it can do more than search 3 deep once and possibly reach card parity, Library's higher cost matters less.

I'd consider Oath more seriously if it were a strict clone of Brainstorm in green, but it's not. On the other hand, Sylvan Library is one of the most powerful green cards ever printed, and provides precisely the library manipulation engine that this decks needs, all while taking up fewer slots (you only need 2-3 since you aren't expecting to see it in your opening grip, and its effect is lasting).

[Ziveeman]

There we go.

As a long-time Zoo player and Library promoter, I have to admit I'm rather surprised by the Oath love in the past few pages. This isn't a Delver deck with a greedy manabase where we are (tying up valuable time/mana) searching for our third-color land. This isn't a control deck where we're searching for specific answers to opposing threats.

Someone mentioned that decks with cantrips are better than those without them, but I'd call that overly-sweeping. Pros and grinders seem to like varied powerful options and the cantrips to find them, so they gravitate towards Blue in part due to playstyle. No one would argue that all decks would be better with Brainstorm: the best example is Merfolk, which is highly analogous to Zoo: very aggressive, works with swarms rather than single fatties a'la Reanimator, is highly consistent due to use of playsets of cards, uses widely-applicable disruption instead of silver bullets, and has better use for its mana than spending it dredging up yet more copies of the same cards.

The point of Library isn't to go through your deck searching for an ass-saving Terminus or to ensure your second land drop, but rather to refill in the midgame, and allow card selection and optional card advantage when you've already set up a board position. Since you aren't expecting to play it until turn 3+, and since it can do more than search 3 deep once and possibly reach card parity, Library's higher cost matters less.

I'd consider Oath more seriously if it were a strict clone of Brainstorm in green, but it's not. On the other hand, Sylvan Library is one of the most powerful green cards ever printed, and provides precisely the library manipulation engine that this decks needs, all while taking up fewer slots (you only need 2-3 since you aren't expecting to see it in your opening grip, and its effect is lasting).

The huge, huge plus to Oath which I never really stated was that it allows you to keep the greedier one land hands that has a bunch of gas (like versus Storm, where you have multiple hate bears in your opener but only one land) while also being a live draw for creatures in the late game.

I don't think Oath will singlehandedly make Zoo relevant again, but I think it's a great addition.

[Curby]

I'd be interested in hearing how your 3-Oath, 2-Library build works out. Please let us know if you get a chance to test it!

[Ziveeman]

I played the deck through another six leagues like last week and I'm sitting at exactly a 50% win rate. After the first three leagues, I was 11-4, feeling pretty good then ran straight into a 7 game losing streak.The Eldrazi matchup has not been friendly to me (two Eldrazi matches in a row had four T1 Chalices across all four games) so I've been looking at ways to beat that. Considered Humility since I have ways to gain the edge (Jitte, Bloodbraid, all of Domri's abilities), but apparently that doesn't stop Endless One so not sure if it's worth running. Perhaps it is since we still have Path to Exile and I don't think the Legacy lists are running the full set of four.

Overall though, I like the list. I've won through T1 Top, T2 Counterbalance where I don't think my previous iterations of Zoo ever would have, and I think adding the Libraries have really helped the deck fight the grindier decks. Just sometimes an unfortunate nature of the deck where you draw the wrong half of the deck (IE seeing only creatures and your opponent being on Elves). Oath (somewhat) helps that issue.

[Megadeus]

I played the deck through another six leagues like last week and I'm sitting at exactly a 50% win rate. After the first three leagues, I was 11-4, feeling pretty good then ran straight into a 7 game losing streak.The Eldrazi matchup has not been friendly to me (two Eldrazi matches in a row had four T1 Chalices across all four games) so I've been looking at ways to beat that. Considered Humility since I have ways to gain the edge (Jitte, Bloodbraid, all of Domri's abilities), but apparently that doesn't stop Endless One so not sure if it's worth running. Perhaps it is since we still have Path to Exile and I don't think the Legacy lists are running the full set of four.

Overall though, I like the list. I've won through T1 Top, T2 Counterbalance where I don't think my previous iterations of Zoo ever would have, and I think adding the Libraries have really helped the deck fight the grindier decks. Just sometimes an unfortunate nature of the deck where you draw the wrong half of the deck (IE seeing only creatures and your opponent being on Elves). Oath (somewhat) helps that issue.
Curious to see what your current list looks like right now. I went 0-3 at a IQ, 3-0 at my local then started 2-0 before dropping 3 games in a row at my win a dual this weekend. The deck just feels still too inconsistent. Lost to miracles via his 3 STP + Snapcaster Draw despite my oaths only hitting lands and bloodbraid bricking on a pyroblast and the game couldve been close if those hadn't have all bricked. Maybe It's simply the ass end of variance, but yeah.

Also Eldrazi seems miserable. I'm on Smiters now and it still was meh. Tried out a Banishing Light which is nice against Reality Smasher, but it's still mediocre. I mean, at this point I'm considering Flametoungue Kavu

[Ziveeman]

Curious to see what your current list looks like right now. I went 0-3 at a IQ, 3-0 at my local then started 2-0 before dropping 3 games in a row at my win a dual this weekend. The deck just feels still too inconsistent. Lost to miracles via his 3 STP + Snapcaster Draw despite my oaths only hitting lands and bloodbraid bricking on a pyroblast and the game couldve been close if those hadn't have all bricked. Maybe It's simply the ass end of variance, but yeah.

Also Eldrazi seems miserable. I'm on Smiters now and it still was meh. Tried out a Banishing Light which is nice against Reality Smasher, but it's still mediocre. I mean, at this point I'm considering Flametoungue Kavu

This is my Zoo list: http://i.imgur.com/H5xk5DW.jpg

[Ralf]

So I piloted this list to 4 - 3 during a 7 swiss round.

Zizibear by Ralf

1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath

2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

2 Domri Rade

2 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile

1 Forked Bolt

SB: 1 Wings Shard
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Electrickery
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Abeyance
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction


Matchs were great and unfortunately I flooded out at some key points.

Loss vs DnT -> flooded
Win vs Grixis
Win vs Miracle
Win vs U/R Delver
Loss vs Merfolk -> flooded
Win vs Shardless
Loss vs Infect -> flooded

Well, moving forward, I'll try something a bit "lighter" for the mana curve while trying to address the flooding issue.


1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath

2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Sylvan Library

2 Domri Rade

3 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile

SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Electrickery
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Abeyance
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Price of Progress

[Seraphim_ID]

Well, moving forward, I'll try something a bit "lighter" for the mana curve while trying to address the flooding issue.


1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath

2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Sylvan Library

2 Domri Rade

3 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile

I played quite similar build.
Difference was:
-1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-1 Sylvan Library
+2 Wild Nacatl
+2 Scavenging Ooze

It gives you opportunity for more agressive start (2\2 with fast perspective to become 3\3) and additional tool to deal with grave.
As it is commonly happens, creatures die sometimes -- why not to utilize them at your favour? Also Ghor-Clan Rampager gives additional option with his bloodrush.

[Ralf]

I played quite similar build.
Difference was:
-1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-1 Sylvan Library
+2 Wild Nacatl
+2 Scavenging Ooze

It gives you opportunity for more agressive start (2\2 with fast perspective to become 3\3) and additional tool to deal with grave.
As it is commonly happens, creatures die sometimes -- why not to utilize them at your favour? Also Ghor-Clan Rampager gives additional option with his bloodrush.

Sylvan Library

I feel like Sylvan Library is always a card you want in the very first turns so that you can keep up with a good steam of creatures/spells. I'm afraid only 2 might be a bit on the low trend to fulfil this objective...
And I really do appreciate the synergy Sylvan has with Helix & Domri.

Ooze

Ooze has always been on my radar. It is a really powerful tool but, here again, I'm not really sure we need him:

1) Do we have enough green mana to sink into it ?
My answer is no. 4/5 green sources are too few (among which 3/4 are "wastelandable"...)

2) Do I want to deal with graveyard strategies MD ?
My answer is no because either we are, on average, too slow (Reanimator/Storm/Dredge) to fight back those strategies OR we are too fast (Midrange deck with recurring tools).

3) Has Ooze enough synergy with the deck's core ? My answer is no. Ooze can be seen as a "gravebear" and could take the place of a Thalia (a hatebear for another) but even if it sucks to have multiple Thalia, she will, in a vacuum and against an unknown opponent, be always better than Ooze.
I want to play a Thalia T2, everyday/all day.

Zoo is all about "b.tching" as much as you can and Thalia is fitted for the (blow) job.

Nacatl

I love the cat. I do. But I had to make a choice.

Nacatl vs Goyf.

I, personally, think the match between Nacatl and Goyf is not over as I might go back to Nacatl in the future.

The problem I have with Nacatl is that:
- it is not a very good top deck and can be easily outclassed
- it is not always a 3/3 (wasteland is a thing in Legacy)

And the problem I have with Goyf is:
- It emphasis your grave dependency for G2 & G3 (Goyf + Knight)
- It is another 2 CCM drop
- It can take ages to grow

There is no clean K.O here. But I tend to believe that as long as I play Big Zoo rather than Regular Zoo, it is better to stick with Goyf.

Anyway, I'll continue testing and keep you posted.

Cheers,

Ralf

[cherson]

what do you think ?

http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/arlinnkord.html

[Curby]

Rule of thumb: 4-drops in Legacy that don't effectively instawin are unplayable unless you're cheating (e.g. Reanimator), accelerating (e.g. Eldrazi Stompy), or both (Show and Tell with mana rocks and Tombs).

Also, my sig.

[Curby]

So, just double-checking that Skin Invasion isn't playable in this deck. A lot of our removal is exiling (and therefore I don't think triggers the flip).

More generally, decks full of 1-drops and 2-drops seem pretty shaky in an Eldrazi Stompy meta. Is anyone still working on Zoo? How do you fare against the Eldrazi?

[Megadeus]

So far I'm 1-2 against drazi despite playing paths and smiters. They've either gotten nutty draws against me, or drawn really poorly. I don't I've experienced an "average" game against the deck, but it seems poor overall

[Curby]

I would expect us to do poorly when their creatures are plain bigger at the same speed and they disrupt our cheap spells. Like a lot of Stax/Stompy lists though, they are indeed victims to chance and have high-variance games in general.

[Ralf]

I went 7 - 3 against Drazi tonight.

I played the following:


1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
1 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath

2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Sylvan Library

2 Domri Rade

3 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile

SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Electrickery
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Abeyance
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Price of Progress


The sample is still too low to draw any conclusion at all but Knight is a real beating against them.
Ghor-Clan was also very solid as well as Domri.

Sylvan coupled with helix did also pull out some good weight in some games allowing me to stabilize under pressure until I could come back.

Not to mention that my sideboard plan is below average as I am only siding 4 cards in:
+2 price of progression
+2 krosan
-2 Gaddock
-2 Thalia

I have moved back to Nacatl after a lot of game against a few different decks. A T1 threat is alas mandatory.

Moving forward, I'm wondering whether or not Maze of Ith should be played as a 1-of (61th card). You really want to grow Knight and to attack, every single turn. Having to choose is really painful...

[Seraphix]

...



Abeyance is pretty interesting. I assume its for...Storm, Elves, maybe Miracles?

I feel like you want that general effect for 1 mana though...have you tried Orim's Chant? (I haven't tried either myself)

[Ralf]

Abeyance is pretty interesting. I assume its for...Storm, Elves, maybe Miracles?

I feel like you want that general effect for 1 mana though...have you tried Orim's Chant? (I haven't tried either myself)

@ Seraphix

Here is an explanation for abeyance, as it messes up with:

- Any miracle trigger on the stack
- Snapcaster shenanigans
- Prevents equipments from being "attached" if played during upkeep/end of oppo's draw
- Ancestral vision's last counter trigger
- Shardless & BBE's cascade trigger (works only if a non creature spell is revealed this way)
- Infernal Tutor on the stack
- Buys you a free attack phase against any sorcery combo deck
- Prevents PW from being activated if played during upkeep/end of oppo's draw or when any PW is on the stack
- Can lure your opponent into activating some abilities or play some spells during their turn (DRS, wasteland, anything with an activated ability)
- Replaces itself
- Etc...

I truly think Abeyance has some potential in any non blue shell playing some white.

Obviously, I have considered Orim's chant instead of Abeyance.
I guess both are fine, yet different:
- OC is cheaper than Abeyance and that could be a matter of life or death
- OC prevents creature spells from being cast
- OC can prevent creatures from attacking (for WW)
+ OC does not prevent abilities from being activated
+ OC does not replace itself

I won't blame anyone for playing OC instead of Abeyance as it is a better card against combo deck.
But I think as Abeyance draws you a card, it is better equipped against a wider array of decks (Combo, Control, Midrange).

Anyway, try the one you like and let's share thoughts/experience afterwards !

[Ralf]

Guys,

How do you feel about REB as a SB choice ?

I was never impressed by it and I am strongly considering cutting it.

[Seraphix]

Guys,

How do you feel about REB as a SB choice ?

I was never impressed by it and I am strongly considering cutting it.

It's generally an upgrade from Bolt against Miracles. Still kills Jace and Blue men but can also blow up Counterbalance and fight stuff on the stack. Only downside is it doesn't go upstairs.

It's also good to have if you expect Show and Tell decks, particularly if you aren't playing Knight+Karakas or are expecting Omni-Tell in particular.

Outside of those matchups I'm not a huge fan. The fair Blue decks are mostly good matchups already.