[Deck]BUx Reanimator

[Esper3k]

If we're still on the "against Esperblade" conversation, I found that the Griselbrand/Iona is usually just the best thing you can do. Sometimes Elesh Norn still does work as a plague wind they need a removal spell for, and I had pretty excellent results with Grave Titan in the matchup, as it dodges Lilliana and still leaves 4+ power behind if he goes farming. Stormtide is an option I wouldn't go with for two reasons:

1) It dies to literally every removal spell Esper has, and is generally vulnerable (though less so recently as the current Blade flavor is UWR, and they only have swords).
2) Blazing Archon does this thing's job while also being super relevant against Sneak and Show.

Inkwell was okay, but felt kind of underwhelming really. Akroma is a thing in the UWR meta, I suppose, but without lifelink it might actually be possible for them to race her more often than I'm comfortable with. She's basically a more vulnerable Inkwell that doesn't pitch to force and can actually be removed (double bolt), so in that regard I'd say run Inkwell if considering Akroma, Angel of Fury.

All this said, this assumes we can't Griselbrand for whatever reason, which is my go-to, followed by Iona on (usually white, black if I know their only out is Lilly). Elesh Norn can sometimes pick up the pieces in a drawn out game when they've burned their removal, as the wrath of their DRS/SFM/Geist/Truename/whatever they're running is a pretty solid way to tilt drawn out games back in our favor. Grave Titan, as a dude that's not immune but very resistant to Jace and STP, and IS fairly immune to Lilliana of the Veil, ranks around where Iona is, and I will often go for him over the nice angel lady if I'm playing blind. If I can't find and protect a Griselbrand for whatever reason, I don't mind finding and protecting him, since one attack and they're just incredibly far behind even if they manage to pull something. He whallops.


tl;dr - Silver bullet is Grislybacons.




In reference to the ballsy hand awhile above, I would've kept it. No risk, etc.

Thanks! I've been really happy with Grave Titan too. Ever since I cut Tidespout for him, I've never looked back.

You like Iona in the matchup? My problem (against Esper) is that even on White, they still have the potential to get rid of her through Liliana or Jace.

Griselbrand is still my go-to guy in the UW/x Stoneblade matchup right now too - I was just musing about if there was a better silver bullet guy out there that they simply can't beat.

[kingtk3]

I don't think there is such a silver bullet because esperblade can attack creatures by too many angles: stp, jace, liliana, race them with batterskull...

The best thing is to go for griselbrand, protect him and then reanimate another creature to seal the deal.

[PirateKing]

Esper3k

I would have kept the hand, but I would have been more inclined to lead off with a Careful Study over the Brainstorm, since the risk of blanking on a mana source and forced into two dead draws is a game over, and while the shallower draw is rough, being able to pitch the junk you draw and still have a live draw (that would have been a land from the Brainstorm anyways) is stronger in my opinion. Maybe not stronger, but safer.

Against Stoneblade decks, depending on my hand and where we are in the game, I go to Elesh Norn fairly often to blank their board save for Batterskull itself, which can now be beaten in a fight. Again, this is only if I think I can get it to stick and expect to fight on at least one removal attempt with cards in my hand. Or if I feel their hand is weak on spot removal (from a previous Thoughtseize). Otherwise it is Griselbrand to battle/fill my hand/set me to bring out something else -or- Inkwell Leviathan to just try and race. But not if they already have out a Batterskull. Can't race that.

Regarding Stormtide Leviathan I like it as a better Blazing Archon, a full two turn faster better, but they're both dead to removal and puts the game right back where it was before once they're gone. But it isn't quite a better Empyrial Archangel because that shroud is huge for the role you're trying to fill with it. Which isn't to counter a Batterskull. All three bodies have fallen out of favor because putting out mostly uninteractive walls doesn't get you much these days. Better plans are to overpower with 7+ power and card advantage rather than a grindy Empyrial Archangel v. Batterskull fight.

[kingtk3]

Stormtide however doesn't stop emrakul, which is the main reason for archon in this deck (obviously in the side).

[Esper3k]

I was hoping someone might have some hot tech against Esper, but it looks like old Grizzly is still the best one there (not like I'm actually sad to have to get Griselbrand).

Interesting lines on leading with the Careful Study over the Brainstorm. I can understand the play there - I was just leading with BS to maximize my chances of seeing a land, but it did end up Brainstorm locking me out of the game. I ended up scooping after the Brainstorm to try and hide what particular flavor of combo I was.

[Darklingske]

I don't think there is such a silver bullet because esperblade can attack creatures by too many angles: stp, jace, liliana, race them with batterskull...
I just remembered this nice girl against Esper: Sigarda, Host of Herons.
Has Shroud, they can't force you to sac stuff, evasion & is a 5/5.

[Esper3k]

Moving on to other silver bullet fatties, has anyone found a better anti-combo guy other than Iona or Jin-Gitaxias? Again, Griselbrand is great (because he's always awesome!) here, but I was curious if anyone had success with other guys. Ruric Thar maybe?

[Esper3k]

I just remembered this nice girl against Esper: Sigarda, Host of Herons.
Has Shroud, they can't force you to sac stuff, evasion & is a 5/5.

Man, if only she has Vigilance too...!

[PirateKing]

Stormtide however doesn't stop emrakul, which is the main reason for archon in this deck (obviously in the side).


Blazing Archon isn't an answer to Emrakul. Blazing Archon stops Emrakul sure, but it doesn't beat it, it instead sets you into a dangerous stalemate. We don't have answer's to a resolved Emrakul besides Tidespout +spell. And if everyone has dropped Tidespout, then you have no answer. Best case, you draw the game, worst case, they negate the Archon for even a single turn and you're dead.

So I don't think that's why it was run in the deck. It was used as a Zoo (rest it's soul) answer or a Thresh answer, before GeeBees came and made us an aggressive attack-y deck. Before that it was just a medley of bodies to answer archetypes that attacked once your opponent was out of the game.

[Esper3k]

Blazing Archon isn't an answer to Emrakul. Blazing Archon stops Emrakul sure, but it doesn't beat it, it instead sets you into a dangerous stalemate. We don't have answer's to a resolved Emrakul besides Tidespout +spell. And if everyone has dropped Tidespout, then you have no answer. Best case, you draw the game, worst case, they negate the Archon for even a single turn and you're dead.

So I don't think that's why it was run in the deck. It was used as a Zoo (rest it's soul) answer or a Thresh answer, before GeeBees came and made us an aggressive attack-y deck. Before that it was just a medley of bodies to answer archetypes that attacked once your opponent was out of the game.

I used to run Angel of Despair / Ashen Rider for the Sneaky Show matchups but eventually decided it just wasn't necessary. 1) It's unlikely we'll have it in hand if they Show & Tell it, 2) They'll usually board out Show & Tell since it's pretty risky against us.

So the only time it would be really useful is if they have Emrakul out on the field through Show & Tell and we can Entomb up an answer (or again we somehow have it in hand to drop off of Show & Tell).

For me, I think it's just better to fight them the way we fight other combo decks, which is countermagic + hand disruption + (usually) faster combo turn.

I haven't gotten to live the dream yet where I Thoughtseize one of their Griselbrands and then get to Reanimate it, but one can dream!

Against creature decks, I prefer Sphinx of the Steel Wind over Blazing Archon. Really, it ended up being because of D&T for me. My problem with Archon against D&T is that they actually have a good density of fliers (especially with more Serra Avengers being played) and can actually conceivably block & kill it when you attack. Against Sphinx, their only real answer to it is StP or chump blocking it (which we're ok with anyways). Likewise, against RUG, a flipped Delver + Lightning Bolt can kill an Archon, but they're pretty much totally boned against Sphinx.

[practical joke]

Moving on to other silver bullet fatties, has anyone found a better anti-combo guy other than Iona or Jin-Gitaxias? Again, Griselbrand is great (because he's always awesome!) here, but I was curious if anyone had success with other guys. Ruric Thar maybe?

Iona wins that match-up nearly straight up, the only thing you need is to protect it with a single counterspell to win the game hands down.

As a fatty, I will rely on no other creature than this one.

I think empyrial archangel and iona are the way to go against esper blade..
it's tricky, but works, also. Esper blade DOES NOT have the damage for a long time to even get close to killing empyrial herself.


And then we come to a second thing I've read:

Blazing archon was mostly used as a creature when No-Pro, survival and especially ichorid were bigger decks ( was very efficient against merfolk and other creature decks as well)

It's amazing against sneaky show:

Reason, YOU CANNOT LOSE!
it's just a matter of time untill you will win, what's he going to do?
However you need something that pushes through the damage since you cannot deck him.
Inkwell leviathan was a big one for this purpose.

I used to run a few gilded drakes at some point in my sideboard ( sneaky show, mirror match),

cheap to cast, easy to cast reanimate on multiple times etc

imho good creatures for the current format:

Mainboard (this is meta-dependant and a choise of preferences):
- griselbrand (1-4)
- Iona (1-4)
- empyrial archangel,
- elesh norn,
- Blazing archon
- Sphinx of the steel win
- Inkwell leviathan ( even though he lost some grace due to lilliana, it's still a big ass clock to play against)

Sideboard:

All of the above+:
- Gilded drake
- jin ghitaxis
- Ashen ride/angel of despair

There have been some creatures that lost face over the course of the last 2 years:

- Akroma Angel of Wrath
- Terastodon


no the other leviathan has always been shit compared to empyrial or archon.

Yes Sigarda is interesting, but due to the lack of actual fighting strength, you are most likely to lose the race

[Esper3k]

I know Iona / Jin-Gitaxias / Griselbrand are all great vs combo, I was just trying to see if anyone else had come across something better for my sideboard since I'd like to board out Grave Titan & Elesh Norn there.

Vs Stoneblade decks, while they don't usually have a super fast clock, a SFM dropping a Batterskull then TNN is the 8 damage you need to kill an Empyrial Archangel. That being said, I'll probably give it a spin sometime.

Re Blazing Archon vs Sneaky Show: They do have a way to kill it - they can defensively drop a Griselbrand or Emrakul off of Sneak Attack / Through the Breach when you attack, so be careful there. Also, I would guess that they bring in some bounce most of the time if they have it.

[Worldslayer]

I know Iona / Jin-Gitaxias / Griselbrand are all great vs combo, I was just trying to see if anyone else had come across something better for my sideboard since I'd like to board out Grave Titan & Elesh Norn there.

Vs Stoneblade decks, while they don't usually have a super fast clock, a SFM dropping a Batterskull then TNN is the 8 damage you need to kill an Empyrial Archangel. That being said, I'll probably give it a spin sometime.

Re Blazing Archon vs Sneaky Show: They do have a way to kill it - they can defensively drop a Griselbrand or Emrakul off of Sneak Attack / Through the Breach when you attack, so be careful there. Also, I would guess that they bring in some bounce most of the time if they have it.


I actually don't touch my fatty package vs. Combo (storm here, specifically. Other combo like Sneak and Show obviously has different bullets).

Griselbrand and Iona are just hands down the best. They are #1 and #2, and should win the majority of storm matchups should they hit play.

HOWEVER -

Grave Titan and Elesh also have roles in the matchup. Titan is just an incredible clock (full turn "faster" than Griselbrand in terms of actually killing them, though Griselbrand "wins" much sooner than Titan), while Elesh Norn is actually just a sweet answer for if they run the Empty plan, which is a crutch a lot of lesser storm players (and even some storm players that should know better) lean on. For awhile there, they weren't even maindecking tendrils, opting for MD EtW and wishable tendrils, so EtW wound up being their more common gameplan. It's kind of sweet seeing them go hellbent after counters to ministorm, grab like 16 goblins, and watch as they get wiped with a Norn. It's kind of weird, as a 4/7 plague wind isn't something you normally consider good in tendrils matchups, but it's just interesting/awesome that our typical package of Griselbrand/Iona/AshenRider/Elesh Norn/GTitan (if you run him) actually has angles to answer essentially every gameplan they have. It just matches up rather nicely. Also: Norn is one of the few ways to get rid of a resolved Xantid Swarm, which is sometimes a thing.


Regarding Blazing Archon: never leave home without one. For the people arguing whether he's for sneak and show, or zoo, or tribal aggro, or midrange - yes. Which is why it's him and not any other slightly more specific stonewall fatty. Inkwell actually isn't super vs. Tribal/Merfolk/whatever, Empyreal Archangel sucks vs. Show and Tell variants, etc... - Blazing Archon is the best sideboard fatty because a) he makes their attack plan completely impossible while present, as opposed to "difficult" or "a race", and b) he has the most broad applications while retaining potency. Is Griselbrand still the guy I get first against Sneak and Show? Sure. But sometimes Emrakuls happen, and Griselbacon does not win that fight. Archon doesn't "win" for you, but our deck is typically favored as a game develops (As Ashen Rider, my replacement for Tidespout, WILL eventually land and remove Emrakul or Sneak Attack or what have you and clear the way for your other dudes) so any additional layer of interaction (which Sneak hates) that buys time and allows the game to develop is good. Their real out to the matchup is basically leveraging that they're bigger and dumber than we are, and their plan is entirely predicated on violence of action - they win when they do some shock and awe, "here's my 15/15 Spaghetti Monster" things. Archon makes that way more difficult and buys us the time we need to leverage the fact that we're much for flexible/adaptable in gameplan, and turn our relative finesse into a big V for the hometeam. Can they remove it? Sure. But then they're interacting, which we're honestly just much better at than they are. The fact that he's also gravy against a host of other decks means this guy will essentially always make the special teams cut for me.

[Esper3k]

Last time I played against Storm, I left the Grave Titan in too simply because he is a ridiculous clock as you mentioned. I boarded out Elesh Norn because while she's great against EtW, she's pretty horrible against their regular Tendrils plan. I play 8 dudes in the main (I have a maindeck Jin-Gitaxias), so I didn't think it would be too bad to go down to 7 post board.

I may throw Blazing Archon back into the board just as another non-Legendary anti-aggro guy like Sphinx. I've been looking for some more silver bullet guys for the board since I'm thinking I want to finally get rid of the Show & Tells.

[Esper3k]

T4'd another 18 man local yesterday. Had some pretty hideous hands (mulligan'd to 5 three times!) throughout the day, but managed to squeak into T8 and win my match there to make T4.

I finally did come across one situation where I wished I had Tidespout in the main over Grave Titan. G1 vs Lands (does anyone else find that matchup frustrating given that they usually have a pretty poor combo matchup?). I have Grave Titan + Griselbrand + Elesh Norn out against a Merit Lage + Maze of Ith. If I had Tidespout, I would've been able to bounce the Merit Lage and be ok. However, I think if I didn't have Grave Titan, it would've been very difficult for me to push through Mazes + Karakas, so I think it's probably a wash in that game? Grave Titan still continues to perform insanely most times I get him out though.

Inkwell did actually perform amazingly vs Lands, hah. So far though that and Miracles have been the only two matchups I can think of where I want to bring it in so he may eventually get cut (not sure yet though).

I'm also still curious about the Dark Rituals from the sideboard plan. Anyone with experience with that have any insight on when you bring it in? I assume it's great vs the tempo decks, but I'd be interested in hearing other people's experiences with it.

[Stryfo]

if you have tidespout and griselbrand in play, maze is never a problem, you just bounce it over and over with all the cards you draw. Tidespout is the go to creature in that matchup if you already have a d7 online or if your opponent already has a karakas. Yes, Inkwell is also amazing against lands because they can't maze him and usually can't block him either.

[Esper3k]

if you have tidespout and griselbrand in play, maze is never a problem, you just bounce it over and over with all the cards you draw. Tidespout is the go to creature in that matchup if you already have a d7 online or if your opponent already has a karakas. Yes, Inkwell is also amazing against lands because they can't maze him and usually can't block him either.

Yeah, I brought one in the board this time and it seemed to be fine there (I only brought it in vs Lands and Sneaky Show).

This was just the first time in about 25 matches (since I made the switch to Grave Titan in the main) or so that I actually wished for it in the main over Grave Titan.

[Worldslayer]

T4'd another 18 man local yesterday. Had some pretty hideous hands (mulligan'd to 5 three times!) throughout the day, but managed to squeak into T8 and win my match there to make T4.

I finally did come across one situation where I wished I had Tidespout in the main over Grave Titan. G1 vs Lands (does anyone else find that matchup frustrating given that they usually have a pretty poor combo matchup?). I have Grave Titan + Griselbrand + Elesh Norn out against a Merit Lage + Maze of Ith. If I had Tidespout, I would've been able to bounce the Merit Lage and be ok. However, I think if I didn't have Grave Titan, it would've been very difficult for me to push through Mazes + Karakas, so I think it's probably a wash in that game? Grave Titan still continues to perform insanely most times I get him out though.

Inkwell did actually perform amazingly vs Lands, hah. So far though that and Miracles have been the only two matchups I can think of where I want to bring it in so he may eventually get cut (not sure yet though).

I'm also still curious about the Dark Rituals from the sideboard plan. Anyone with experience with that have any insight on when you bring it in? I assume it's great vs the tempo decks, but I'd be interested in hearing other people's experiences with it.

When I ran them, Dark Rituals were mostly for matchups where I had to beat a certain hate piece and needed acceleration. I wound up cutting them after two weeks at Redcaps because typically they just did nothing.

Worth noting: When I ran Grave Titan, it was as an 8th man and I ran 3 SnT to compensate. He never replaced AshenRider/Tidespout, but was run in addition to.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'm quite certain that elesh norn is your go-to for the blade match. I play so much blade it's not funny and I hate seeing elesh. I play Tin fins and I'm thinking about pickin up the 10 or so cards I would need to play this, but I'm really against SnT. It's price tag is prohibitive and I fear the ban-hammer. Also, your complaints about it are understandable and a deterrent for my purchase. Any thoughts? Also, I love snapcaster in re animation builds. Any interest in that over SnT?

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[helghast101]

My build, any thoughts? Trying to decide between this and Elves!. Don't know what would be more fun in the long run. But anyway:

Manas: 20
2 Island
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Lotus Petal

The Beats: 7
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand

The Control: 10
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will

The Digs: 15
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb

The Necromancy: 8
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

For an unknown meta board: 15
3 Pithing Needle
4 Show snd Tell
1 Blazing Archon
1 Ashen Rider
2 Echoing Truth
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Coffin Purge
1 Thoughtseize

Trying to keep the build around 1300$ using ebay prices hence no show and tell. But I figure with the more intensive control package I should be alright.

[jcsy]

My silly comments;

I'm pretty sure about 17 mana sources (with lotus petal) is enough
Mathematically with our curve, 16 is enough but mulls are more common in testing

I rather have a Jin Gitaxias, than an Inkwell (but depends on your area/power level/meta)

You certainly would need Daze (2-3)

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yes, in a deck that plays thoughtseize and underground sea, daze is amazing. It's actually the main reason why I'm getting ready to pick up the last few things I need for this list. I already play Tin fins so it's not a stretch. I love that deck.

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[helghast101]

What to drop for dazes? A swamp and an island?

[kingtk3]

I suggest a ponder, a seize and a fetch

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[rxavage]

I suggest a ponder, a seize and a fetch

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

I wouldn't drop any more land, if you're going to cut a mana source it should be a Petal if anything. I'd personally cut Inkwell and 2 ponder, but any combination of Inkwell, TS, Ponder, Petal would suffice. I like having 4 'seize too much to drop down to 3, you will find what you prefer after testing.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Ponder, exhume, griselbrand.

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[UB Control]

Hi All,
my question is why doesn't run this deck a single Intuition? It fills the grave with creatures and gives one in your hand for the Show and Tell. After boarding it finds solution for everything (in case you run atleast 3 copys).
Is it considered to be too slow?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Well, this deck did play them once upon a time, but if you look at most lists, you will have trouble finding a place for it.

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[kingtk3]

Intuition is just too slow for this deck.
Also I think that with all the manipulation he's running (brainstorm, ponder, study) 16 lands are too many, and I'll never drop a petal in this deck because speed is what makes this deck strong.

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[helghast101]

updated my build. dropped inkwell, a ponder for 2 daze. trying to decide between 4 TS, 2 Daze, or a 3/3 split.

Trying out Delvers in the board, gives me a clock vs early gy hate. Or a clock bs aggro when siding out reanimates amd such.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

2 daze is useless. Some people would argue that less than 4 is wrong, but I would say less than 3 is wrong if you run them unless you are tempo. Tempo plays 4.

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[death]

Or maybe he can just stick with Elves! which is more fun in the long run :smile:

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Troll. I hate playing elves. It is one of the lamest combo decks I have ever had the displeasure of playing, and I played Hulk Flash. I would play the 3/3 split on daze/t-seize.

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[Worldslayer]

I'm quite certain that elesh norn is your go-to for the blade match. I play so much blade it's not funny and I hate seeing elesh. I play Tin fins and I'm thinking about pickin up the 10 or so cards I would need to play this, but I'm really against SnT. It's price tag is prohibitive and I fear the ban-hammer. Also, your complaints about it are understandable and a deterrent for my purchase. Any thoughts? Also, I love snapcaster in re animation builds. Any interest in that over SnT?

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For awhile, was playing a variant that was actually Snapcaster Mage and Dark Confidant based, with Jaces and more control, only 1 Griselbrand, Elesh, and Iona, and only entomb and 4 total renimation. I suppose that's more Solar Flare than Reanimator, but I didn't mind SCM in the reanimator version I ran that led to that.

That said, would never cut Show and Tell. Price tag and possible bannings are some of the worst reasons to not run a card. If a card is good enough that (coupled with age) it's worth a billion dollars and is strong enough that its a candidate for possible bans, that sounds like a card a combo deck absolutely SHOULD run. There's strike against it, but the number of times I've won games due to SnT fair outweigh the occasional time I've lost because it's clunky.

To those of you still running Tidespout Tyrant - I get that everyone has anecdotes where Tidespout was just a house (in my Philly run I came up against a 12post player that essentially could not beat that card), but on average how many times do you actually bounce multiple DIFFERENT permanents? I cut mine for Ashen Rider after I kept being forced to go for Tyrant but just couldn't keep the triggers going, and noticed he usually just bounced the same problematic permanents over and over again. He has some outside utility in the SnS matchup since Him + Brainstorm = Karakas, but don't we have Blazing Archon boarded for that already?

Thoughts?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The cost is prohibitive because I fear it will be banned. I agree it's a bad reason to not play them but it's a worse reason to lose a few hundred dollars.

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[PirateKing]

On Tidespout Tyrant, I still have him in my pile, though have been thinking about turning him into a Grave Titan because I hear that's a thing. I think he's done what he's in there for maybe once or twice in the whole of the deck's history, bounce the Ensnaring Bridge or Karakas, then win. Once on the play my opening was land, petal, study, tidespout, reanimate, daze, something. Dropped him turn 1, they played land and did some turn 1 play that got dazed and I bounced their land, and it was game over right there. But I can say he's probably been a blue pitch more often than a body. I used to run Terastodon in the "something is stopping me from winning, kill it and win" slot, but same with Tidespout, those encounters were so uncommon, I ended up just nuking my lands for more bodies and forcing my win through.

Right now my main creature suite is
3 - Griselbrand
1 - Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 - Tidespout Tyrant
1 - Inkwell Leviathan
with a side of
1 - Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 - Ashen Rider

I anticipate to swap the Inkwell/Iona positions back to their original setups, and turn the Tidespout slot into a Grave Titan or whatever monster Born of the Gods delivers, since all the other cards are doing exactly what they're supposed to and I'm pleased overall. If my meta changes and I need more specific answers, I'm prepared to cut a Ponder for a 7th slot for Empyrial Archangel/Blazing Archon/Terastodon/something. But I don't anticipate keeping Tidespout by my next large tournament.

[lavafrogg]

I should probably put this in new and developmental but maybe you guys can humor me… what do you guys think of a squee list? like so:

1 Ions, Sheild of Emeria
3 Griselbrand
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Mire
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

4 Zombie Infestation
3 Intuition
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
4 Duress
4 Exhume
3 Reanimate
4 Entomb

Sideboard
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
3 Disrupt
1 Buried Alive
1 Echoing Ruin
3 Last Rites
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reanimate
1 Sickening Dreams
1 Thoughtseize

Its pretty much a port of or love reanimator, which is the reanimator deck I always want to play….Im pretty sure it is terrible though.

[Stryfo]

@ worldslayer -

I still run tidespout and I find myself bouncing a bunch of permanents all the time. I am thinking more specifically of situations where careful studying a tidespout into the yard is the only option, his ability is just so much more powerful than ashen rider. He is a much better racer and can put your opponent to no permanents on board with relative ease. I once again should note that my list is somewhat unorthodox, but it isn't so far off the beaten path that it's not recognizable as UB reanimator.

[Just me]

I should probably put this in new and developmental but maybe you guys can humor me… what do you guys think of a squee list? like so:

1 Ions, Sheild of Emeria
3 Griselbrand
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Mire
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

4 Zombie Infestation
3 Intuition
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
4 Duress
4 Exhume
3 Reanimate
4 Entomb

Sideboard
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel
3 Disrupt
1 Buried Alive
1 Echoing Ruin
3 Last Rites
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reanimate
1 Sickening Dreams
1 Thoughtseize

Its pretty much a port of or love reanimator, which is the reanimator deck I always want to play….Im pretty sure it is terrible though.

I would use Buried Alive over Intuition, cut blue and use the additional slots (Study's) for Liliana. Easier on the mana, consistency remains high. Buried Alive also makes Anger a nice creature to gain haste for your Griselbrand. If need be, you can add carddraw in the form of Nights Whisper but I think that's not needed (the control this deck has adds more time, allowing the deck to be a little slower).

SB I'm a fan of Firestorm against creature decks like Goblins, Maverick,...

[TinkerRobot]

There are a few ongoing points of contention I'd like to chime in on.

1. Show and Tell is a must. I run 4 in the sideboard (I play the red splash version of the deck). I never feel like I need it game 1 (it is an anti-grave-hate card).

2. I like the 3/3 Daze/Thoughtseize split. Daze is incredibly powerful to the point of warping the format, however in a deck only running 15 lands, I typically do not want to draw multiples. Thoughtseize is another powerful disruption spell that, in a pinch, can be used to bin a fatty.

3. Tidespout Tyrant is the weakest creature in the deck, but I have not found a suitable replacement. I run a suite of seven creatures: 3 Griselbrand, 1 Iona, 1 Elesh Norn, 1 Grave Titan, and 1 Tidespout. I think Tidespout Tyrant's status as a non-legendary blue flier is as important as his bounce ability. I am always hesitant to cut blue cards in a deck with 4 Force of Will, and Karakas is virtually the strongest card against us. For this reason, I am running Grave Titan. The card is a house. I encourage everyone to play it.

tl;dr - play Show and Tell and Grave Titan

[jcsy]

Go with 3 Daze, 3 Thoughtseize?
(with 15 lands dazes gets weaker)

After a griselbrand draw 7 on opponents turn, dazes are useful
A draw 7 on your turn can hit lotus petal & thoughtseize, allowing more hand nukes

4 seems too many though (4th daze gets clunky, land restraint) and sometimes there really issnt much left to thoughtseize (multiple) and with 2 life loss in a heavy life loss deck.. i believe 3 seems a nice split

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I like and agree with your thoughts, tinkerrobot. I would like to see a list of your build (I like grixis). What is red for?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[TinkerRobot]

I like and agree with your thoughts, tinkerrobot. I would like to see a list of your build (I like grixis). What is red for?

The red splash is for 2 Izzet Charms main and 2 Red Elemental Blasts in the side. It also allows me to play Engineerd Explosives at 3, but that doesn't come up often. My list is a posted a few pages back in this thread.

[feline]

Reanimator, 2013, & overall success:

What could be called another good year for the deck that just will not die, or undie. The best way to put it is to look at the numbers
Reanimator 2013:
22 top 16 or better placings at the Open series
11 top 8 or better placings at the Open series
3 times in the finals match at the Open series, though no trophy this time around.
As well as an invitational Legacy portion that went 8-0

The deck has largely remained the same, though Lotus Petals have since become a staple, while some lists have ran both Lotus Petal & Daze, other lists have cut Daze all together. The staple Reanimate targets have continuously been Griselbrand, followed by 1 of's with Iona, Shield of Emeria, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, & Tidespout Tyrant as the most popular.

2014 will likely be another successful year, as the graveyard hate means little when you can turn 1 a bomb into play, for all those pushing the deck, best of luck over the next year in death, & undeath.

[kingtk3]

Thanks feline, and to everyone who is promoting the deck.

Keep recycling in 2014 too!

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[GexxX]

Played the year ending event in Hanau yesterday to finish 24th of 119 players. I chose the deck over ANT due to a hangover and little practise. 8 rounds of swiss are quite the beating playing storm.

My list:

4 Petal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Underground Sea

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
4 Careful Study
2 Show and Tell
4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
2 Daze

Sideboard:

3 Pithing Needle
3 Echoing Truth
1 Coffin Purge
1 Angel of Despair
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Massacre
2 Duress
2 Show and Tell

Looks like crap, but since I expected little to no hate it seemed solid. The 2 Duress are actually quite good combined with the SnT's to go on a different route and are far better in game 2 and 3 and on the draw even better.

Games:

R1 1:2 Esper Blade (he told me he plays a subotimal list, which I kinda agree. Still beats me and makes the top8. Random 1off Canonist G1 against Storm is a crazy thing)
R2 2:1 Wish-ANT I win the dieroll and he complains that's what's deciding the match although I bet to disagree as my list is quite fast and he can't realy beat T1 or T2 Iona which blew his chances in G3.
R3 2:0 4C Delver
R4 2:0 Canadian
R5 1:2 Canadian Game 3 he has a hand I can not beat. I get a little pissed... T1 He plays Delver. I thoughseize, seeing: FoW, Daze, Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Stifle - naming FoW. He flips the delver with the second force and in the end find SnT one turn to late. Boy, what an unfair game. I guess that's how everyone feels about T1 GB. :D
R6 2:1 Marius Hausmann with Imperial Painter. He is a very nice guy and I am honored to play him as Dreadstill was the deck which got me into Legacy. I feel sorry about defeating him with such lucky plays it's the complete oposite of the round before.
R7 1:2 DnT He is a better Player. My Deck draws no creatures in 8 Turns to SnT in g3. Aight, fair and square!
R8 2:0 My opponent does not show up. Play for fun against a guy with the same issue and we trade a little after the match.

The event was a blast! The journey not so much although it makes for a good story. Well another time. I do not plan on a detailed report, but who knows.

A word of advice: I have not seen an environment that friendly towards the archetype in a while. If you wanna pick up Reanimator, do it now!

[PirateKing]

Interesting list GexxX, congrats on your finish. I currently run the 3/3 split of Thoughtseize and Daze main, with 3 Spell Peirce in the side to come in as Dazes on the draw, as has been for a long time. Though recent games have left me disappointed with this line, I haven't found anything else better. But looking at your Duress in the side, seems like a line worth considering, especially if your plan is to S&T as you said. Can you elaborate on your experiences playing it?

[Itsonlytheis]

What's with the bloodghast in the sb? What am I missing?

[Esper3k]

What's with the bloodghast in the sb? What am I missing?

Bloodghast is something you can pitch into the yard and get out without needing a Reanimation spell. Helps against sacrifice effects too.

[TinkerRobot]

Bloodghast is something you can pitch into the yard and get out without needing a Reanimation spell. Helps against sacrifice effects too.

So it's basically for Liliana and Diabolic Edict? There is no way it's beats are going to earn us any wins. I've seen it in lists before and never found a good reason for it.

[Stryfo]

@tinker I play 4x hapless researcher in my list and I have had plenty of wins from just attacking for a few points with those guys every turn, I have no problem believing bloodghast beats could win games.

[Rood]

Picked up the deck. Lost maybe one round out of 15 so far with it. Is this deck unstoppable? It's stupidly strong in testing.
I'm trying to get the cards to build my version. We'll see how it goes.

[helghast101]

Picked up the deck. Lost maybe one round out of 15 so far with it. Is this deck unstoppable? It's stupidly strong in testing.
I'm trying to get the cards to build my version. We'll see how it goes.

If you can play around the hate, yes it is really powerful. Unstoppable, not at all. Like Dredge you'll have games you lose to one card. Plus with the current metagame with Karakas, Oozes, Shamans etc. Being main decked we don't have the "free" game one.

[kingtk3]

Picked up the deck. Lost maybe one round out of 15 so far with it. Is this deck unstoppable? It's stupidly strong in testing.
I'm trying to get the cards to build my version. We'll see how it goes.

Against which decks did you test? Moreover, did you test with or without sideing?

You are right, this deck is a monster in general and even more in game one. It becomes more difficult to play in G2/3 because of all the hate that the opponent may bring, however sometimes this deck is just too fast for caring about it.

The worst matchups are, in my opinion, against white based decks because they have cheap removals that exile or are repeatable (sword to plowshares, karakas), the best grave hate (rest in piece) and strong effects to put via show and tell (oblivion ring, mangara).

These are not unbeatable matchup because this deck can beat anything, but in my opinion are the worst you can find.

Glad to see you here btw ;)

[kingsey]

What's the most current UB list for an open meta ?

[YamiJoey]

I've been playing around with some stuff and have come to a dead end on this. I'm currently running lists to come to a conclusion for GP Paris in February, and would like to have the month to test a final list. I want to play 4 Entomb, 4 Reanimate, 4 Show and Tell, 4 Griselbrand, and 2-4 of a card that is as good as landing a Griselbrand or Emrakul or something, but that works well with both Reanimate and Show and Tell. The list I've currently got looks something like this:

Creatures: 10
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn

Spells: 29
4 Brainstorm
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will

Mana: 21
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Lotus Petal
2 City of Traitors
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire

I basically want to pull the Norn/Tyrant for 2 Creatures that will basically win me the game on the spot. Iona doesn't work as I am expecting to sometimes T1 people and do not want declare White expecting StP and then walk into a Tendrils the following turn or whatever. Would a second Tyrant over the Norn be good? It's one of the best Spells I've ever seen in play once you stabilise, and is incredibly easy to get to work. It can be removed etc. for basically no value if I attempt to T1 S/T it and they throw down Land StP or whatever as above, but there just isn't anything quite as good as a Griselbrand when it comes down to it. Anyone have any thoughts, or should I just go ahead and play a couple of 1-ofs and be happy that I made a 7-drop no matter what it is?

[Worldslayer]

Yami -

I'd probably Terastadon over Tidespout. Doesn't pitch to force, but Turn 1 is capable of making 12-15 power (if you're "all in" and turn your land and/or extra petals into Elephants) while maintaining similar functionality an requiring no real additional cards. Obviously riskier, but higher payoff, which is how I tend to pilot the deck in any case. Also, the quote in your sig needs a beginning bracket ;)


Roodmistah -

The deck's worst matchup is itself and that becomes apparent the more you play it. I had played a few games with friends the night before I took 11th in Baltimore, and had only a few weeks of playing by 2nd in Philly. Worecester rolled around, though, and by then the entire meta was Deathrite, Ooze, Karakas - and still managed to plow through it for 28th, but the deck was "making me work for it". Generally, the games I lose with Reanimator tend to be when Reanimator just gets thoughtseized or hymned or forced and you draw nothing else or keep getting Combo Part A five times when you need Combo Part B, then you do nothing and die. In general the deck is ridiculously strong, though.


@Reanimator Red players -

Where's Blood Moon? When I considered splashing Red months ago, it was solely for that card but I didn't want to add more nonbasics to the mana base in a meta of Wasteland. Since you guys obviously have accepted that, why not leverage what's probably the best tech we can steal from Sneak and Show? My lists already were on 3 "red" fetches (2 Bloodstained Mire / 1 Scalding Tarn), and coupled with the 2-4 basic blue or black sources it seems like proper play can leave your mana safe and sound while turning off Green sources for Deathrite (or their ability to play magic at all), Karakas, Maze of Ith, incoming Bojuka Bogs, etc....


@Todd Anderson Pyreanimator players -

Did you try Snapcaster in more traditional Reanimator before the Pyro list? It functions similarly in terms of adding meat to the field, but adds yet another layer of redundancy to the deck, making disruption heavy hands even more sad, and adds another dimension to entomb in that 2 Entombs + Snapcaster actually do make a big guy now. Just throwing that out there, as Snaps as a 2-3 of was something I was actually pretty happy with for awhile, and it keeps you in UB.


Kingsey, my Philly list was pretty stock for Reanimator, though the sideboard was 80% garbage. the UB lists running 2/3 SnT main with Iona/Elesh/Permanent Remover Guy/Griselbrands are pretty flexible for open metas, though if you suspect a heavier Karakas presence Grave Titan (or Inkwell Leviathan) should be in your 75 somewhere. As much as the red splashes aren't a fan of SnT, I'd never leave home without 4 in my 75 - the card is simply too absurd even for a prepared meta, and means the maindeck hate cards are minor modal changes instead of game-delaying hurdles. In a perfect world you can sculpt the double entomb exhume draw, or double fatty careful study exhume draw to beat a Deathrite, but in practice normally just casting the 2U sorcery is both far more achievable and active in a relevant timeframe.


@Whole Thread -

We put up good numbers this year, boys and ghouls, so excellent work. To anyone who's been playing it: congratulations, you're part of something awesome. To anyone moving over here more recently: welcome, this deck is absurd, and congratulations - you're part of something awesome.

I'd link the first few seconds from Altered Beast, here, but have no idea how to do that.

[Rood]

Stoneforge decks seems pretty tough for us. I think Ashen Rider and Tidesprout are good utility creatures for the matchup as is Elesh Norn.
Is the general consensus this is one of the rather extremely tough matchups for us? Between Swords/Jace/etc we cant just lock them out with Iona.

[PirateKing]

Iona has gotten weaker and weaker as decks have diversified in colors and answers to Iona. She still has her place, but it's hardly ever as a turn one lock like back in the day.

[Worldslayer]

Generally I find blade decks more annoying than extremely tough. Tier one "oh god no" matchups are rip miracles and maverick flavors. Blade and jund have game, especially now that both are drs based, but griselbrand is so naturally good against them when combined with free countermagic that he will usually cost a game out pretty easily. Iona is second string, calling whatever color thought seize tells us to.

[PirateKing]

I won a Scrubland at a 16 man tournament with Reanimator. Didn't take any notes and am not going to write a real report, just share some thoughts on the experience. The tournament was held among drafters and EDH players, and the environment felt like low hanging fruit, hence my interest. Turned out others had the same feeling and so there were other real decks among the rest.

Game 1; I throw away an awful 7 and look at a turn 2 S&T with protection in my 6 and decide to roll with it. Play land go, he opens with Duress, I let it happen figuring he will take the Show and put me back on Reanimate, he takes Force and 10 spells later, I'm dead.
Game 2; Despite siding to my best, more of the same, he has a Exterpate for my T1 Reanimate, and a Silence combo to follow. So far my easy tournament is looking grim.

Game 1; He plays basic Islands and Forests into Sakura-Tribe Elder, no idea what his plan is, Griselbrand ends it quick.
Game 2; Same thing.

Game 1; Some budget D&T build, flashed in Restoration Angel to deny me Lifelink a few times, but can't stop me in the long run.
Game 2; Same thing.

Game 1; Turn 1 Thoughtseize shows Enchantress, I show her Entomb and win.
Game 2; She tutors for RiP, plays it with mana to spare, while I craft a hand. Turns out the Tidespout in hand pairs well with the S&T on the top of my Library. Lets me Entomb Reanimate a Griselbrand which lets me Force her Humility and Elephant Grass. Win with Elesh Norn in play to remove some of her triggers. This was the only real time Tidespout offered value, though I find this to be a rare scenario and one that should be depended on. Once he was in play I had Petal Entomb Reanimate in hand, Petal bouncing RiP, and then locking the game up from there. Still wanting to try Grave Titan in that slot, with Chain of Vapor and maybe Echoing Truth in the side to offer the same effect.

anyway, I'm 3-1, get 4th seed in top 4.

Game 1; Everybody wants to do some SCG style finals and so everybody announces their decks. I'm up against Dream Halls. In all my time playing, I haven't faced a S&T mirror, just Tempo, Control & Combo. Time to learn. Basically we draw, Ponder, go for about 6 turns before either of us have the courage to try something. I try first and fail, and we durdle some more. Crafting back to a hand of Force, Force, Careful Study, Inkwell, he goes for it. S&T gets my Force, he responds with Pact of Negation on my Force. I say fine and Force his S&T again. Having used Lotus Petal mana to get this far, he can't pay the trigger and dies. This was stupid close, all 4 cards were what they needed to be to get there.
Game 2; He has better counter-magic and sticks a Dream Halls and proceeds to Cruel Ultimatum a handful of times.
Game 3; I have not much to side in but some Spell Peirce to hunker down for another counter war. Moot point as he gets mana flooded and we durdle some more. Bin a both Iona and Griselbrand and keep playing Reanimates until Iona comes down on Blue, and the game is over.

Final opponent is my round 1 storm player, and I'm in no mood to play him. Turns out neither is he, so we split.

Thoughts on Tidespout are above. If the deck was full of 0 cost cards like Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy, he would do more, but too often we spend all the cards in our hand just to get the guy in play and protect him. As I have said before, without any way to protect him or a lasting impact after the card has left, he isn't really good enough to keep in the 75. I'd rather S&T Griselbrand to search for the Chain of Vapor to bounce the problem card, so that is what I will do.

Iona came through for the first time in a while, a possible opponent was High Tide, so I was glad she was in the pile. Was thinking of dropping her as well since my meta is all 3 color that does just fine under the Shield of Emeria.

In the end, I am really happy with my 3-3 Daze Thoughtseize split, recommend it to anybody who's thinking otherwise. If you're running Lotus Petals, it's because you want to be fast, and nothing can protect you well under those speeds like a well placed Daze. Without Petals, that a whole other world of slow, and then we can talk about :u: casting costs to get things done. I never wished Thoughtseize was something else whenever I saw it.

[Esper3k]

Be very careful about using Chain of Vapor. If you need it to bounce a problematic permanent like Ensnaring Bridge or Humility, they can just sac a land to chain it back at your dude.

[Worldslayer]

Round one and show and tell are why I never mind two or so flusterstorm in my sideboard. Were both aggressive, but our ability to leverage countermagic is the real trump in underground sea mirrors.

Your thoughts on tidespout essentially mirror my own, and any standard reanimator list I pilot will most likely use terastadon and/or ashen rider in the future. Probably terastadon. For every game I remember where he was awesome (12post two Phillies ago, looking at you) there's four more where he comes into play and does between zero and one things other than die. It's a rare case I need to bounce more than one thing, so I'd rather just blow it up. The sneak utility loss from tidespout leaving is unfortunate, but that's what blazing archon is for anyway.

Congrats on the finish, Pirate King.

Edit: preferred bounce is Wipe Away if you're looking at actual spells. Echoing truth is a close second. Chain I'm not huge on, but there's a pretty heavy concentration of Uw rip players in Philly so im a little biased. Isn't there a bounce spell that transmutes? Is that any good? I can't remember the costs offhand.

[PirateKing]

Be very careful about using Chain of Vapor. If you need it to bounce a problematic permanent like Ensnaring Bridge or Humility, they can just sac a land to chain it back at your dude.

Chain of Vapor is only ever a pre-reanimate tool, aiming for RiP or Leyline of the Void or Ooze or something. Echoing Truth for after, and Pithing Needle for lands. I used to run Wipe Away but it was always too expensive to come to fruition in time. and that was before DRS.


Round one and show and tell are why I never mind two or so flusterstorm in my sideboard. Were both aggressive, but our ability to leverage countermagic is the real trump in underground sea mirrors.

Your thoughts on tidespout essentially mirror my own, and any standard reanimator list I pilot will most likely use terastadon and/or ashen rider in the future. Probably terastadon. For every game I remember where he was awesome (12post two Phillies ago, looking at you) there's four more where he comes into play and does between zero and one things other than die. It's a rare case I need to bounce more than one thing, so I'd rather just blow it up. The sneak utility loss from tidespout leaving is unfortunate, but that's what blazing archon is for anyway.

Congrats on the finish, Pirate King.

Edit: preferred bounce is Wipe Away if you're looking at actual spells. Echoing truth is a close second. Chain I'm not huge on, but there's a pretty heavy concentration of Uw rip players in Philly so im a little biased. Isn't there a bounce spell that transmutes? Is that any good? I can't remember the costs offhand.

I had Flusterstorm on me but had Massacre in their sideboard slot, prepared for all sorts of Blade and Midrange nonsense, since that is my meta at home. I really should clean my act up and craft a proper sideboard. I almost feel like I'd just run Boomerang over Wipe Away for cost reasons, the split second's use is in the same boat as Tidespout, not saying it'll never be of use, but that extra :1: is forever.

[feline]

1st SCG of the year & we have our first placings of the year, congrats to Jon Naskrent & Matthew Ucci who both made the top 16 at SCG Indianapolis.

[Esper3k]

Chain of Vapor is only ever a pre-reanimate tool, aiming for RiP or Leyline of the Void or Ooze or something. Echoing Truth for after, and Pithing Needle for lands. I used to run Wipe Away but it was always too expensive to come to fruition in time. and that was before DRS.

Sure, but if you're running a split, you can't always count on getting the better one when you need it. I prefer all just Echoing Truth because of that.

For reference though, I was responding to when you said:

"I'd rather S&T Griselbrand to search for the Chain of Vapor to bounce the problem card, so that is what I will do." in the tournament report.

[PirateKing]

Sure, but if you're running a split, you can't always count on getting the better one when you need it. I prefer all just Echoing Truth because of that.

For reference though, I was responding to when you said:

"I'd rather S&T Griselbrand to search for the Chain of Vapor to bounce the problem card, so that is what I will do." in the tournament report.

Wow, right, that was a thing I said. Let it never be said that I was good at this game :frown:

[Esper3k]

Wow, right, that was a thing I said. Let it never be said that I was good at this game :frown:

Hah you did well enough! Just hope you didn't actually do that :)

[Juice11]

Just curious if anybody has tried a transformational sideboard?

I'm playing a pretty standard 60, but have tinkered with cutting the petals for 2 lands and 2 more counters. Adding some consistency over explosiveness. I find the petals only good within the first 2-3 turns and after that are really dead draws. With the petals I can occasionally go off 1st turn and pretty often on the second turn this is without back up. Without the petals, I typically go off a turn or 2 later, but it is often with 1 or 2 sources of backup.


I've been tinkering with a transformational sideboard for decks with a lot of graveyard hate. I've been thinking a set of delvers and maybe a few stalkers/TNNs. I haven't really come up with anything great, but was curious. The idea I had is to cut the whole reanimation package (13 cards with an animate dead) and add the show and tells and another 9 cards that could win a game without a graveyard.

[Stryfo]

I have tried delvers and part of a transformational board before, the problem is that we are a combo deck and have too many cards that are just bad outside of our deck. That said, there are certainly cards in my board that make my deck seem transformational, but are powerful within the existing framework of the deck. To be a bit more clear, my solution to beating graveyard hate has always been bounce, but against some decks I like having backup plans. For example, against miracles I bring in cards like V Clique, and Venser because they are beaters that serve another purpose.

Any time I can find a creature that is fairly cheap (matchup dependent) and really good in a matchup I like to try it out in my sideboard because it plays so well with the entire idea of the deck. For example, against RUG delver, I like to bring in a pair of baleful strix because of how powerful he is against their deck and because he can't be spell pierced or flusterstormed (In addition, he can be reanimated for sweet value) I think that a full blown transformational sideboard is too hard for the traditional build of the deck, but a partial transformation to support the initial strategy is perfectly fine and doable.


For reference, creatures I have worked with so far as well as how many I play/played:

Baleful Strix (All-Star when I bring it in) 2

Venser (Awesome) 1

V Clique (Great) 1

Pack Rat (Limited testing, but has been pretty sweet when I do bring him in) 1

Delver (This one I liked less since he took up too many slots, I didn't feel he was strong enough as a one of) 4

Notion Thief (Didn't play with this for long, because I liked my board against decks I'd bring it in for well enough already) 1

Judge's Familiar (This guy wasn't bad, but took up too many slots) 3

Deathrite Shaman (Only tried this in one weekly, didn't really like it, though the mana ability was pretty sweet) 2

[Juice11]

I have tried delvers and part of a transformational board before, the problem is that we are a combo deck and have too many cards that are just bad outside of our deck. That said, there are certainly cards in my board that make my deck seem transformational, but are powerful within the existing framework of the deck. To be a bit more clear, my solution to beating graveyard hate has always been bounce, but against some decks I like having backup plans. For example, against miracles I bring in cards like V Clique, and Venser because they are beaters that serve another purpose.

Any time I can find a creature that is fairly cheap (matchup dependent) and really good in a matchup I like to try it out in my sideboard because it plays so well with the entire idea of the deck. For example, against RUG delver, I like to bring in a pair of baleful strix because of how powerful he is against their deck and because he can't be spell pierced or flusterstormed (In addition, he can be reanimated for sweet value) I think that a full blown transformational sideboard is too hard for the traditional build of the deck, but a partial transformation to support the initial strategy is perfectly fine and doable.


For reference, creatures I have worked with so far as well as how many I play/played:

Baleful Strix (All-Star when I bring it in) 2

Venser (Awesome) 1

V Clique (Great) 1

Pack Rat (Limited testing, but has been pretty sweet when I do bring him in) 1

Delver (This one I liked less since he took up too many slots, I didn't feel he was strong enough as a one of) 4

Notion Thief (Didn't play with this for long, because I liked my board against decks I'd bring it in for well enough already) 1

Judge's Familiar (This guy wasn't bad, but took up too many slots) 3

Deathrite Shaman (Only tried this in one weekly, didn't really like it, though the mana ability was pretty sweet) 2



Thanks for the reply.

I have found that it's really hard to morph the deck. I did have some decent results with a stiflenaught combo in the sideboard but don't thinki it's the right way to go. Although it gets around graveyard hate, it wasn't much better than the reanimator combo itself.

I agree that delver isn't the way to go, it takes up too many spots and doesn't provide that much impact. Has anyone tried Tombstalker or TNN? I'm curious to know how they would do.

What do you usually use a venser for? I do see clique as being useful though. I will have to try strix, it seems really good as a stall in certain matchups. I'm also curious about the utility of snapcasters mage in the sideboard. Does stifle have any place in this deck? Seems like it could be used to stifle a relic or a tormod's crypt or things like that (not sure if you can stifle the coming into play trigger for rest in peace).


Has anybody tried a green splash for abrupt decay, seems like it could really take out a huge amount of problem cards for us. Or would it be better just to use engineered explosives?

Sorry for the rambling nature of my post.

[Stryfo]

Venser is my third bounce spell for matchups where it is required, it also beats down against miracles and has a lot of game against show and tell.

[TinkerRobot]

Has anybody tried a green splash for abrupt decay, seems like it could really take out a huge amount of problem cards for us. Or would it be better just to use engineered explosives?

Am I the only one who doesn't like playing answers to hate permanents? In several months of playing this deck, I've found Show and Tell, Thoughtseize and sufficient counter magic are the best strategy against Relic, Tormod's, RIP etc. Honestly, I feel like the deck is so explosive and well protected that it ignores those cards better than threats like Swords to Plowshares and Karakas, which I am more willing to dedicate sideboard slots to.

[Stryfo]

@tinker, no, you are not, I just don't happen to agree with you regarding show and tell, though many do. I have found in my playing that show and tell is just not where I want to be, and without show and tell, we need some sort of anti-hate card.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Well, I'm not sure I like this much. I miss tin fins already. I keep getting the crap beat outta me by esperblade. Haven't even been able to stick a creature. The games are all blow-outs in their favor.

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[Juice11]

Well, I'm not sure I like this much. I miss tin fins already. I keep getting the crap beat outta me by esperblade. Haven't even been able to stick a creature. The games are all blow-outs in their favor.

Esperblade is a pretty bad matchup for us. It can answer resolved creatures and has access to counters in the maindeck, it also has a lot of graveyard hate in the board. You kinda just have to hope you get lucky with your draws.




Am I the only one who doesn't like playing answers to hate permanents? In several months of playing this deck, I've found Show and Tell, Thoughtseize and sufficient counter magic are the best strategy against Relic, Tormod's, RIP etc. Honestly, I feel like the deck is so explosive and well protected that it ignores those cards better than threats like Swords to Plowshares and Karakas, which I am more willing to dedicate sideboard slots to.

Have you ever faced a resolved RIP and Meddling Mage on Show and Tell? Feels pretty helpless without some sort of hate.



@tinker, no, you are not, I just don't happen to agree with you regarding show and tell, though many do. I have found in my playing that show and tell is just not where I want to be, and without show and tell, we need some sort of anti-hate card.

I agree, Show and Tell is just so... underwhelming. Everybody and there mothers know Reanimator sides them in and they prepare for it.


We really need some sort of plan for the board. What type of hate have people found useful. Do you typically board in discard or counters or bounce? Also, what do you take out when you board those things in?

Aslo, has anyone found stifle useful?

[Zilong]

Have you ever faced a resolved RIP and Meddling Mage on Show and Tell? Feels pretty helpless without some sort of hate.

massacre may help


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[kingtk3]

Playing bounce to deal with permanent hate means that you can take one shot at reanimating because on their turn they'll replay what you have bounced: if they counter your attemp it's likely that you will not have another chance.

Moreover if they have multiple hate, as for RIP+Meddling, you'll have to choose what to bounce.

In that situation, and in general however, I think it's better to have a definitive solution like engineered explosives: in that scenario you would have basically destroyed them.

[Stryfo]

I agree that EE is a great solution to many of our problems, I just prefer bounce because of its versatility and blue-ness as well as its mainboard-ability. Bounce is also harder to play around than EE because they don't necessarily see it coming, with EE many times they will see it sitting in play and can do something about it.

Saying that if they counter your attempt means you can't go off again is somewhat of a silly statement. If they counter you going off they could have just as easily countered your SnT or EE or whatever, it doesn't make any difference if they countered your spell whether the spell was bounce, EE, SnT, etc.

[Joe Eigo]

Hey folks,
ill play a Trial for GP Paris this weekend and plan to use Reanimator, which would be my first tournament with this deck.

Since i don't own any copies of Show and Tell (yet) i need some input what i could use as a replacement, especially regarding the Aggro matchups... Any clever idea(s) ?

My mainboard will use Inkwell instead of Tidespout and 2x Izzet Charm instead of SnT.

Thanks for any help!

[Just me]

I still intend to try Liliane of the Veil as a 3 off (virtualy top of the curve).

It helps discarding fatties. It helps to control the board against mirror, Show and tell, even is a serious concern for decks like X-blade where they often have 1 active threat etc. Games against combo tend to go long as well, I find that it's often a standoff or an early flurry of spells and then a standoff. Since we can profitably discard and they cannot, it's a nice card there as well.

So instead of Show and Tell, maybe you can use Liliana?

[kingtk3]

...
Saying that if they counter your attempt means you can't go off again is somewhat of a silly statement. If they counter you going off they could have just as easily countered your SnT or EE or whatever, it doesn't make any difference if they countered your spell whether the spell was bounce, EE, SnT, etc.

However if they counter EE you still have some action in hand and you could try to go off if you draw another EE or S&T.
If you bounce, instead, they'll counter your attemp to go off and replay their hate, so you'll have to draw both another bounce and combo pieces, which is much harder.

Basically, they don't need to counter bounce because they'll aim directly at your combo while they need to counter EE because it will open to more combo attempt.

[Stryfo]

@ Joe Eigo: I don't mean to be arrogant by posting my own list and saying to start from there and tweak it to your liking, but I don't see many other non show and tell lists, so I don't know where else to point you.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60006

That list is current except I no longer play Wipe Away in the board, I am experimenting with Pack Rat.

If you are playing Izzet Charm main, you probably don't need echoing truths main and can move those to the board, but I wouldn't ditch them entirely since you aren't running SnT.

@kingtk3: I see what you are saying now, I misunderstood before. I agree mostly, but If they counter EE, there is still permanent hate that needs to be beaten, and I can't imagine running more than 2 or 3 EE to deal with it, so in most cases, I feel the point is moot.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I can't see what I am doing wrong but I'm losing left and right with reanimator. I do fine with Tinfins but this deck just doesn't draw right for me. I think I will look for a mono black version. More explosive is what I'm going for I think. Also Dark Ritual allows for hardcasting some of your targets, which I have really missed in the several matches I've played.

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[Deimos]

I can't see what I am doing wrong but I'm losing left and right with reanimator. I do fine with Tinfins but this deck just doesn't draw right for me. I think I will look for a mono black version. More explosive is what I'm going for I think. Also Dark Ritual allows for hardcasting some of your targets, which I have really missed in the several matches I've played.

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I played 1x dark rit in an otherwise pretty standard u/b list and it was really good for me I think running 2x would be about the max the deck could have without them becoming clunky. The deck is already really explosive I never felt like it needed more

[feline]

Reanimate in the finals.

[Stryfo]

Good to see reanimator doing well at another scg, but some of his lines seem really odd to me, did anyone else think that or was it just me? Maybe I should rewatch the games when they're up.

[TinkerRobot]

Good to see reanimator doing well at another scg, but some of his lines seem really odd to me, did anyone else think that or was it just me? Maybe I should rewatch the games when they're up.


Agreed. He certainly lost the match against elves because he oversideboarded and played sloppy.

[PirateKing]

Anybody have links to these matches? Or is my inability to find them representative of them not being posted?

[NormalGuy]

Anybody have links to these matches? Or is my inability to find them representative of them not being posted?

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/494686451

The final is at 14h11m30s, you'll have to search around in the stream for the other matches.

[PirateKing]

Not to knock the guy too hard (he did make the finals, so his street cred is worlds more than mine) but I'd like to know what his initial 7 was that motivated him to mulligan and then keep a dead end hands on camera. I carve my name into 5 card hands all the time, the deck is resilient enough to work low potential into game winning more times than people give it credit for. Unless I have it right there, a hand with only half and no Brainstorm or Ponder is a bad hand for me. Sucks that that is what beat him, not some epic play or solid battling.

[Jim Higginbottom]

The deck definitely mulligans well enough that some of his keeps were pretty loose. I've had mulligans to 4 where I'm still reanimating turn 1, sometimes turn 2 with protection (daze).

[Jim Higginbottom]

Also, I'm pretty sure at this point that Iona should be moved to the sideboard and replaced with either Inkwell or Grave Titan. Iona has been a terrible main deck creature in every tournament I've played in since I picked up the deck after champs.

[Worldslayer]

Another SCG, another Top 8 for Altered Beast, with perhaps the most thematically appropriate last name possible.

Break the bridesmaid curse, Graves. DO IT FOR US.

[Esper3k]

Reanimator in the finals!

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Holy shi...poop. Two in a row.

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[zmattk]

Reanimator takes down Sneak and Show in the finals!

[Esper3k]

Boom, head shot!

I was really surprised that T1 Reanimate resolved in g3...

[PirateKing]

So having watched the finals, and coming under a similar board state as G3, I have a question.

My line of play went Careful Study, tossing Griselbrand and then playing Exhume, with a Reanimate in hand, but his yard was empty and no life loss with a Griz is nice. He responds with an Entomb, this being my first encounter with Jund Depths, I didn't see it coming, he bins his own Griselbrand, and Exhume resolves.

I attack into his, they both die. Now at a ton of life, I Reanimate, targeting his Griselbrand, the line being if he had Surgical Extraction or something similar, he would be forced to use it on himself. He didn't and it never mattered, and similarly in the finals, the choice existed for Graves to target either Griselbrand, but knowing the deck lists and sideboards, it didn't matter.

My questions is is there any possible downside to this line of play. If at worst the distinction doesn't matter and at best they have to Extirpate themselves, then why not always take this line. Unless there is something I'm missing, which is why I ask.

[Esper3k]

I was thinking about that too and would have Reanimated his Griselbrand as well.

[helghast101]

Thomas Graves wins with reanimator. Kind of funny to me. A little more than it should be though...

[DragoFireheart]

Good to see this deck place. I've always liked Reanimator.

[JanoschEausH]

I'm really curious how you board with his list (Thomas Graves). I'm trying to get into Reanimator and while playtesting I figured I would like to board most of the Sideboard against most DTB, which seems bad, because I don't want to water down the main strategy.

Here is the Sideboard I was playtesting with (Thomas Graves):

2x Engineered Explosives
2x Pithing Needle
1x Ashen Rider
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Coffin Purge
1x Flusterstorm
2x City of Traitors
2x Show and Tell
2x Thoughtseize

What makes me most curious is: What to take out. Does FoW comes out sometimes? Do you even board G2 before you see what they bring in against you? Can someone of you enlighten me?

[Stryfo]

Let me start by saying that boarding with this deck is very challenging, you need to have a read on the deck you are playing against, you need to know what hate they plan to bring in, and you need to know what cards they will take out, so that you can craft an effective boarding strategy to deal with their new configuration.

Every deck in the format has certain sideboard cards that they gravitate towards in order to interact with you. The way you decide what to bring in is by identifying along what axes the deck you are trying to play against will interact with you. After that you need to decide what cards in your mainboard are not strong against that strategy as well as the general strategy of the deck you are playing against. For example, playing against elves, daze will almost always be dead, so it is an easy cut (at least on the draw).

If you want to sideboard against RUG, for instance, using that sideboard, you need to look at what they are trying to do: constrain your mana, bury you under soft counters, and kill you with one or two guys. Sometimes they play one graf cage. Cards to consider bringing in in that matchup:

EE: kills cage if they have it, their threats if they don't. Killing RUG's threats is actually an interesting decision point because they have so few, and as a game goes long, you will almost certainly develop a hand that will win.

Flusterstorm: Here you can bring in a counter to deal with their counters, but I don't think it's worth it. Flusterstorm is much better as a defensive spell than an offensive one, and you are requiring yourself to hold up an extra mana to cast a spell, not always possible against RUG's game plan.

Thoughtseize: allows you to do essentially the same thing as flusterstorm, but without the requirement of holding up a mana for every spell and with the added bonus of information, this is something you can bring in.

SnT and City of Traitors: These are sort of a package deal, especially against RUG. I can see bringing these in to increase threat density within the deck, these seem fine, but first we'll have to find out what to cut.

assuming your main 60 is the same as his, I think the pool of cards to look at for cuts would be:

Ponder: This may seem blasphemous, but in my experience this is the weakest card in the deck, some number of these could easily be cut while sideboarding, especially if you are increasing threat density with show and tells.

Daze: This card is more dependent on play/draw, I can see you leaving it in in either case, but it's a card you could cut if you wanted

Careful Study: This card gets weaker when you add more show and tells to the deck, cutting one or two could be appropriate in some cases.

Petals: They help you play around soft counters, but they are really one shot lands, city of traitors seems to have the same effect, but each city can work more than once. some number of these may be correct to cut.

Reanimate/exhume: If you want to add show and tells and cut a careful study or two it may be appropriate to take out a single copy of whichever of these spells you find to be weaker, though I don't advise this plan against RUG, it is easier to cast and resolve one and two mana spells than three mana ones.


With all of that thought put together, I think I would board something like this, assuming I am on the draw:

+2 Thoughtseize
+2 EE (These are a bit fringe, but I like being able to slow RUG down and deal with graf cage, since if the game goes long without graf in play, you will almost certainly win, bringing these in is up to you.)
+2 SnT
+2 City

-4 ponder
-1 petal
-2 Daze
-1 careful study

I don't play Graves' 75, so my boarding may not be perfect, but what I am trying to show is the analysis process that you need to go through when boarding with this deck. I don't have time to go through writing out this process for any other decks, but the way you go about it is the same.

In response to your last questions: I almost never board out force of will, we are a deck that cares about resolving one or two spells, and once they resolve, which FoW helps enable, we don't care about the card disadvantage that FoW gives, we only care that we can use them to keep us in the driver's seat. You should have some idea of what you'll see in game 2, if you don't have familiarity with the format and how the generic version of a deck will board, you need to learn that so that you can board correctly with this deck. Sideboarding is the most difficult and also the most important part about playing this deck.

[JanoschEausH]

Wow Stryfo! Thank you very much for your detailed answer! This helps me alot!

[kingtk3]

I second Stryfo's analisys: you'll often find yourself siding out a mix of ponder (if you play them), daze (if you are on the draw), study and reanimate (I almost never side out exhume because if you have 2 creatures in the grave, or entomb in hand, plays around grave hate).

The only thing I don't agree with is fow: it is possible to side out if the hate you're facing can be fought with other cards of your side, especially if the opponent is heavy on discard. For example against jund there aren't must-counter cards: drs can be raced or named with needle or you can play S&T, liliana cannot beat grave titan, ecc...
Moreover, counters are bad against Jund because they usually side in a number of REBs

[DragoFireheart]

Reanimator looks well positioned in this meta.

- Doesn't care about TNN.
- Favored against Sneak and Show (which is the DTB combo deck).
- Fast enough to fight DnT while also having a more stable mana based (U and B).
- Doesn't care about any weird mid-range decks trying to survive in this TNN meta (Shardless BUG, Nic Fit, etc)

The only matchups that look like a challenge are RUG, Team America, and Miracle Control (RIP version). Is Reanimator a good choice?

EDIT: http://www.tcdecks.net/metagame.php?format=Legacy

Currently sitting at 6th at the time of this post.

[Esper3k]

Chris Vanmeger in the t8 of SCG Baltimore with Reanimator!

[MrSecours]

Is there a stream to watch it?


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[Secretly.A.Bee]

Scg.com has the stream going right now. It's vanmeter vs DeathBlade atm.

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[MrSecours]

Nice thanks, just found it on twitch tv


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[Secretly.A.Bee]

Np this is my football lol.

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[MrSecours]

Welp , he tried

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[rarefiedar]

I've recently discovered that Emrakul can be reanimated with instant speed reanimation spells such as Goryo's Vengeance or Shallow Grave. I've searched through this forum and haven't seen any mention of this strategy. I also can't seem to find any of these decks played competitively (though I must admit my search wasn't very thorough). Is the 'instant speed reanimation' type decks inferior to the general archetype discussed in this forum? Is there another thread around here where such a deck is discussed?

[helghast101]

I've recently discovered that Emrakul can be reanimated with instant speed reanimation spells such as Goryo's Vengeance or Shallow Grave. I've searched through this forum and haven't seen any mention of this strategy. I also can't seem to find any of these decks played competitively (though I must admit my search wasn't very thorough). Is the 'instant speed reanimation' type decks inferior to the general archetype discussed in this forum? Is there another thread around here where such a deck is discussed?

Look up Tin Fins. It has a thread dedicated to it.

[kingsey]

Played this deck to a 2-2 finish at my local this week. beat show and tell, lost to BUG delver, beat UR young pyromancer, and lost to bug again.

I did not have show and tells and I think that really hurt me.

I ran 3 griselbrand, 1 iona, 1 inkwell, 1 elesh as my creatures.

I will be going up to 4 griselbrand for sure. He is stupid good.

It felt good to be playing this deck again thats for sure :smile:

[Mortox]

I've recently discovered that Emrakul can be reanimated with instant speed reanimation spells such as Goryo's Vengeance or Shallow Grave. I've searched through this forum and haven't seen any mention of this strategy. I also can't seem to find any of these decks played competitively (though I must admit my search wasn't very thorough). Is the 'instant speed reanimation' type decks inferior to the general archetype discussed in this forum? Is there another thread around here where such a deck is discussed?

Deck is known as Tin Fins, huge thread here in the developing section about it: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24104-TinFins-3-Return-of-the-Onion-Burst

I believe it's generally regarded as a weaker version among the Reanimator archetype for some reason, although I've played around with it and it's certainly a fun deck that can win on T1, and other than the fact that it runs a few dual lands, its a fairly cheap deck - no Force of Wills or Show&Tells or anything like that.

[rarefiedar]

Deck is known as Tin Fins, huge thread here in the developing section about it: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24104-TinFins-3-Return-of-the-Onion-Burst

I believe it's generally regarded as a weaker version among the Reanimator archetype for some reason, although I've played around with it and it's certainly a fun deck that can win on T1, and other than the fact that it runs a few dual lands, its a fairly cheap deck - no Force of Wills or Show&Tells or anything like that.


Look up Tin Fins. It has a thread dedicated to it.

Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for. I had actually came across the term while reading through several re-animator threads but hadn't fully connected the dots. From what I understand it's still fairly new build and actively being tweaked, which for me great. I'd really like to jump into an active deck rather than an established one as I will probably learn much more about deckbuilding from the active one.

I'm not planning to buy any legacy decks just yet. I've been playtesting with proxies with a couple friends. Been a casual player for years but we're finally taking the dive into Legacy. The variety of cards in legacy is just astounding (compared to Standard). I've spent so many hours just combing through MTG search engine reading abilities of cards and the user comments. It's great. I made a couple 'fun' multiplayer decks (Including an Ink-Treader Nephilim deck I'm pretty fond of) and tribal stuff, but Reanimator was the first established deck I decided to look into and was instantly hooked by the raw power of it. Tin-Fins seems to take that a step further so I look forward to learning more about that deck, but will definitely be keeping an eye on this forum as well.

On a side note, How does everyone link to the images of the cards? Is there some HTML code prefix/suffix I can add around the card names or is it more complicated that that?

[rarefiedar]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but running Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite over something like Blazing Archon is done because:

-Elesh Norn (mostly) board wipes while Blazing Archon simply hold off the attack. If Blazing Archon is destroyed/exiled, the card has accomplished nothing.
-Elesh Norn also buffs your creatures, hastening victory.
-Elesh Norn has vigilance, so can block creatures it did not wipe.
-Other reasons I probably haven't thought of?

So if my reasoning is correct, when is Blazing Archon needed at all? The primer mentions that it's good against Show and Tell. Is this because SnT does not usually run creature removal? Thus we only have to combat their counterspells? I can see it's worth if this is the case, as this would be a pretty hard lock against them and thus well worth keeping in the sideboard.

Alternately, as mentioned in the primer, Tidespout Tyrant is a very good response to Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (though not as much against a Grisebrand). In my mind, though, a card like Angel of Despair or as was recently suggest somewhere in this thread, [cardsAshen Rider[cards], may be the better choice. Especially in the case of Ashen Rider as it exiles, so they can't possibly bring something like Grisel back with our Exhume. If SnT is the only reason to run a Blazing Archon I definitely see the merit in running Ashen Rider over it as Ashen Rider potentially has other applications.

This is my first real 'analysis' type post so please forgive any misunderstandings I have about both Reanimator or MTG in general! Any comments or discussion leading off this post would be greatly appreciated.

Right now I'm coming to the consensus that my main deck should have the following creatures:

4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant

And to summarize the above, I'm trying to determine just what value Blazing Archon is bringing to the sideboard and whether or not a card like Ashen Rider might be better suited in this position. I have looked at Todd Anderson's list and he includes Angel of Despair but this was pre-Theros I believe (3/10/2013).

Edit:

After writing all this I took a look at some of the more recent tourney decks and noticed that none of them were running Blazing Archon any more. Maybe the primer is just a little outdated in this regard. Also, they do seem to be running Ashen Rider over Angel of Despair which makes perfect sense as it is clearly a better card.

I've decided not to delete this post, hopefully to get some validation on my thoughts about the exclusion of Blazing Archon!

One other thing I did notice about the primer that probably deserves an edit (In the Show and Tell matchup section):

"If they resolve a Show and Tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is the worst to come down, but because it can also be Griselbrand you may want to drop your own Griselbrand, because you can just Reanimate yours afterward."

I believe this was written before the legendary rule was changed, because the author seems to be suggesting that both Grisels will be going to the graveyard when you play Grisel off of their SnT. Could be wrong about this but that's how I understood it.

[kingtk3]

Hi rarefiedar, you are quite right about the Archon vs elesh analisys, I may only add that Elesh actually kills many problematic creatures that don't use the red zone (like confidant, deathrite shaman, lavamancer, peacekeeper...) against which Archon doesn't do anything.
Blazing from the side can be used as additional hate against elves, merfolk, canadian and the likes since they don't have a mean to remove it and they need the combat phase to win.

To tag cards you have to write [ cards]insert_card_name_here[ /cards], without the blankspace after the parenthesis. You can also use a single tag in multiple lines.

[Guie]

Just finished off my Reanimator Deck last week. My friend has been playing various forms of Delver since the release of Innistrad and is pretty darn good with it. From what I understand the pilot makes all the difference against Delver. I've only been able to play test once for a short time and lost all 5 games. I'm brand new to the deck and Legacy in general, and would appreciate any help.

[Worldslayer]

Just finished off my Reanimator Deck last week. My friend has been playing various forms of Delver since the release of Innistrad and is pretty darn good with it. From what I understand the pilot makes all the difference against Delver. I've only been able to play test once for a short time and lost all 5 games. I'm brand new to the deck and Legacy in general, and would appreciate any help.

The short story is take your time. A Griselbrand in play is game over against the majority of delver variants even without his draw seven ability, as a seven seven life link is just way outside their ability to deal with. Almost all of their interaction outside of force of will only works when you walk straight into it, so try to dead daze and spell Pierce as much as you can just by waiting and being patient, and try to keep your fetch lands away from stifle as much as you can. Fetch basics whenever possible. Usually you take some damage, then line up two or three tries on a row and stabilize at sub ten life. Griselbrand attacking is often enough, as if blue mana is open activating him often just make stifle the best lava spike ever, so avoid that unless you have to. Rug and Bug are easier matches across three games if you play tight and careful, with ironically the worst of the delver variants (american) being the hardest match thanks to meddling mage and rip post board. Generally just be patient, ask we have to do is actually resolve our plan and there's next to nothing they can do if that happens.

@rarefinder - archon is almost exclusively for sneak and show as they actually cannot win so long as it's protected. They can go over top of our big boys with emrakul, so shutting off their option to just nuke us from orbit while we make progress due to our much more flexible fatty suite is usually pretty good. Some of the tribal decks like merfolk also have a hard time with archon, as griselbrand isn't always the answer there since he rarely blocks thanks to island walk, and multiple lords make racing and praetoring them out of the game difficult. He's more of a meta call / silver bullet, but I usually pack one whenever I leave the house as he's also a fair guy to find against things like dnt/maverick.

[Richard Cheese]

Deck is known as Tin Fins, huge thread here in the developing section about it: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24104-TinFins-3-Return-of-the-Onion-Burst

I believe it's generally regarded as a weaker version among the Reanimator archetype for some reason, although I've played around with it and it's certainly a fun deck that can win on T1, and other than the fact that it runs a few dual lands, its a fairly cheap deck - no Force of Wills or Show&Tells or anything like that.

*Ahem* TinFins is in the Established section, thank you very much. Actually I think the comparison to Reanimator is mostly wrong, even though both decks like to Entomb for Grizzlebees. TinFins is fast combo, like Belcher fast. It's less of a glass cannon than Belcher by a wide margin, but slightly less resilient than Reanimator since we don't have a toolbox of creatures, and rely primarily on discard for protection. That said, we don't worry as much about Karakas or StP, and can win without attacking. Also, really goddamn fast.

[Specksynder]

After going over almost every tournament list from the past year it seems that almost no two sideboards are even close to alike. I have also been studying the side boarding section of the primer but it seems a little dated. My current 15 looks like this:

1x Ashen Rider
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Coffin Purge
1x Echoing Truth
1x Submerge
2x Flusterstorm
2x Pithing Needle
2x Thoughtsieze
2x Show and Tell
2x City of Traitors

Maybe:
Massacre
Engineered Explosives
Surgical Extraction
Spell Pierce


My meta is 3xHigh Tide, Maverick, Loam, Delver, and some Stone Blade. Am I missing anything obvious? I have a couple 1 of's that maybe I should 2x instead? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Guie]

The short story is take your time. A Griselbrand in play is game over against the majority of delver variants even without his draw seven ability, as a seven seven life link is just way outside their ability to deal with. Almost all of their interaction outside of force of will only works when you walk straight into it, so try to dead daze and spell Pierce as much as you can just by waiting and being patient, and try to keep your fetch lands away from stifle as much as you can. Fetch basics whenever possible. Usually you take some damage, then line up two or three tries on a row and stabilize at sub ten life. Griselbrand attacking is often enough, as if blue mana is open activating him often just make stifle the best lava spike ever, so avoid that unless you have to. Rug and Bug are easier matches across three games if you play tight and careful, with ironically the worst of the delver variants (american) being the hardest match thanks to meddling mage and rip post board. Generally just be patient, ask we have to do is actually resolve our plan and there's next to nothing they can do if that happens.

He is playing the American Delver variant :laugh:

[Lurker101]

I've been testing this Reanimator variant with some success online. It started out as an attempt to abuse Balancing Act and gradually evolved into this:

2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Balancing Act
2 Careful Study
2 Past In Flames
3 Reanimate
3 Unburial Rites

3 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Dust Bowl
2 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wasteland


Playing Intuition has been great as it puts two targets in the graveyard and one in your hand. I've won a decent amount of games using Intuition with LED dumping my hand and flashing back Unburial Rites. Unburial Rites has actually been used more than Reanimate. Restore Balance is rarely useful and can probably be cut. The manabase was designed with Restore Balance in mind but I've really liked Cephalid Coliseum and Dust Bowl/Flagstones. TNN has been a solid hardcastable back-up plan. I didn't post a sideboard because it's been changing a lot but a few cards I've found useful are Vengeful Dreams,Flusterstorm, and Dragon Breath. Thoughts?

[soapbot]

A new maindeck or sideboard monster that has been doing really well for me is Sigarda

1. 5 life to reanimate, which is low
2. Dodges Karakas, Maze of Ith, Stp, bolt, etc....
3. Keeps Liliana, smallpox, diabolic edict, and even Emrakul at bay

once Sigarda drops, they have 4 turn clock (virtually)

Ashen Rider I think is better than Tidesrpout tyrant. He comes in taking something out. You can even bounce
animate dead with chain of vapor/ Echoing truth in a long drawn out game for more value. He also takes out Emrakul if sneaked in,
and is almost happy to see Liliana. I run 1 main - 3 in the side.


How are you guys dealing with game 2-3 DRS ???. Most opponent's will play him fast, sit back and gather counter magic
we need a proactive response to this guy, not a reactive one (pithing needle)

[kingtk3]

How are you guys dealing with game 2-3 DRS ???. Most opponent's will play him fast, sit back and gather counter magic
we need a proactive response to this guy, not a reactive one (pithing needle)

Thoughtseize, izzet charm (if you're in red) or disfigure (if you're not), engineered explosive, daze, fow, S&T, bounce, blood moon (depriving them of green sources)...

[PirateKing]

soapbot, piloting this deck I've found the best indicator of game success is speed. Turn 1 DRS, proactive response is T1 Griselbrand. Long games are lost games, and taking aggressive mulligans is one of the prerequisite skills required for successful matches. If you know their deck, Pithing Needle can be a fine T1 play into a T2 attempt. Otherwise the list of discard, bounce, kill & counter are your only options. Also most decks end up going into full S&T swing on games 2 & 3 once faced with grave hate.

[soapbot]

soapbot, piloting this deck I've found the best indicator of game success is speed. Turn 1 DRS, proactive response is T1 Griselbrand. Long games are lost games, and taking aggressive mulligans is one of the prerequisite skills required for successful matches. If you know their deck, Pithing Needle can be a fine T1 play into a T2 attempt. Otherwise the list of discard, bounce, kill & counter are your only options. Also most decks end up going into full S&T swing on games 2 & 3 once faced with grave hate.


You are correct, I've been able to out race shaman most games, but sometimes I have no pieces and have to dig in the meantime, while they slowly eat my yard of creatures and spells - draining my life and making reanimates and griselbrand dangerous options.
The S&T method seems really good. I've lost a couple games not pulling it, but I'll chalk that up to a bad day. with show and tell in the side should city of traitors also be in my side for speed?

Kingtk3 mentioned disfigure which is a solid option.

This is my Side so far

3 Ashen Rider
3 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Show & Tell
3 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle


I'm trying to make room for massacre or disfigure
In the same vein, which would be a better option Ratchet bomb or EE ? I'm leaning toward Ratchet

[kingtk3]

If you need to blow for 0 ratchet and explosives are equivalent.
For 1 most ad the time it's the same, you have to wait a turn to blow, although if you have 3 lands you can do it immediately.

For 2 and 3 explosives are better because you have to wait only a turn to blow, whereas ratchet takes you 2 and 3 turns.

I prefer explosives.

About your side, aren't 3 riders too many? Against which matchups you bring them in? Same question for the spellbombs. Also I advice you to play 3 needles since they are relevant against almost every hate against us (mainly excluding rip)

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[Joe Eigo]

A new maindeck or sideboard monster that has been doing really well for me is Sigarda

1. 5 life to reanimate, which is low
2. Dodges Karakas, Maze of Ith, Stp, bolt, etc....
3. Keeps Liliana, smallpox, diabolic edict, and even Emrakul at bay

once Sigarda drops, they have 4 turn clock (virtually)

I really like the suggestion of Sigarda. It seems to be a great solution against all the problematic cards in Deathblade!

Last tournament (GP Trial) i lost a long second game to Deathblade where i was able to remove a Karakas via Ashen Rider off of SnT (it was later removed by STP), Wiped the board of deathrite shaman and friends with Massacre (First Massacre was CSed), Needled a Liliana and still lost to a topdecked Jace the Mindscupltor. It seemed nearly impossible to fight through all that hate...

Sigarda nihilates everything except Deathrite Shaman. It's also useful against Smallpox and all Edict effects that see more play because of TNN.

Sounds great!

Can we not simply switch Inkwell to this, which basically does the same but is not edict proof... ?

[soapbot]

I really like the suggestion of Sigarda. It seems to be a great solution against all the problematic cards in Deathblade!

Last tournament (GP Trial) i lost a long second game to Deathblade where i was able to remove a Karakas via Ashen Rider off of SnT (it was later removed by STP), Wiped the board of deathrite shaman and friends with Massacre (First Massacre was CSed), Needled a Liliana and still lost to a topdecked Jace the Mindscupltor. It seemed nearly impossible to fight through all that hate...

Sigarda nihilates everything except Deathrite Shaman. It's also useful against Smallpox and all Edict effects that see more play because of TNN.

Sounds great!

Can we not simply switch Inkwell to this, which basically does the same but is not edict proof... ?

Inkwell and Tidesprout are sorely overrated - they cost 8 - 9 life to reanimate and give nothing. Terastodon is garbage as well since they will just use the elephants to beat you down with your low life. Another option that I had decent results with was rune-scarred demon. He searches for FOW, or that missing piece (entomb, reanimate, exhume) and can tutor for sideboard pieces once boarded in.

I also used to run Akroma angel of wrath since she looks cool and dodges Detention and STP, but she's not great, just cool- especially in foil, I only use her casually (sorry baby, hate the game)

[soapbot]

If you need to blow for 0 ratchet and explosives are equivalent.
For 1 most ad the time it's the same, you have to wait a turn to blow, although if you have 3 lands you can do it immediately.

For 2 and 3 explosives are better because you have to wait only a turn to blow, whereas ratchet takes you 2 and 3 turns.

I prefer explosives.

About your side, aren't 3 riders too many? Against which matchups you bring them in? Same question for the spellbombs. Also I advice you to play 3 needles since they are relevant against almost every hate against us (mainly excluding rip)

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

I bring in the riders, against decks that use liliana, strix, and edict effects. BUG has no answer for it. Most people will abrupt decay animate dead, they don't read the sacrifice clause and you get 2 hits off of Rider. a good show & tell target since it will gobble up whatever they choose.

Spellbomb, will slow down graveyard decks (loam, dredge, reanimator) , what I like about it is you can crack it just to draw a card. I've drawn a FOW off of one and countered a spell - after that there was no looking back

Does anyone have any feedback on Dimir Charm?

It brainstorms with mill
Shoots Shaman
randomly counters sorceries
pitches to FOW

it is never dead

[kingtk3]

I tested for a bit dimir charm for the same exact reasons, but I found it a little luckster.

The first part isn't something you can depend to for binning creatures in the grave unlessyou set up with brainstorm and put a creature on the deck.

It's good for killing shamans, bobs, thalias, peacekeepers and the like, but doesn't kill flipped delvers.

The best sorceries you can counter are from combo decks, but this deck already has a good matchup against combo in general.



Now compare it to izzet charm:

If you draw a creature you can bin it directly, and moreover you can play it with exhume on the stack in response to a targetted grave removal, like the old hapless researcher trick.

It kills basically the same creatures as dimir's with the addition of delver, spirit of the labyrinth, flickerwisp phantasmal image with power greater than 2 and so on.

It can counter instant (like counters for example), enchantment (counterbalance, rest in peace), artifact and planeswalker (I'm looking at you liliana), AND sorceries. It's not an hardcounter but so much more all-around.


I'm testing Izzet charm and for now the red splash has served me well, although I would like to have 3 basic lands other than two.

[Just me]

GP PARIS is coming and I will play Reanimator. But can someone explain when to Sb into more Show and Tell + City of Traitors and, very important, what to take out? I'm running the same deck as Chris van Meeter did main.

Meta I expect is;
Ant
Show and Tell with sneak attack
RUG
Deathblade
Death and Taxes

Suggestions for maindeck and Sb strategies are very welcome since I never played this deck at such a big event.

[cogitoergosum]

GP PARIS is coming and I will play Reanimator. But can someone explain when to Sb into more Show and Tell + City of Traitors and, very important, what to take out? I'm running the same deck as Chris van Meeter did main.

Meta I expect is;
Ant
Show and Tell with sneak attack
RUG
Deathblade
Death and Taxes

Suggestions for maindeck and Sb strategies are very welcome since I never played this deck at such a big event.

I play two show and tell md, and one in the side. I side in the third in 90% (not against show and tell decks) of matches. I usually take out a reanimate against drs decks, and exhume against the others. Almost every opponent packs some amount gy hate, so it is almost always correct to side it in.

I don't use city of traitors, but when putting in extra show and tells I would side them in for lotus petals. Unless you are playing against a deck with no wastelands, then take out the basics.

[Just me]

But taking Petals out and not siding in City of Traitors seesm strange. It slows down the deck even more.

[cogitoergosum]

But taking Petals out and not siding in City of Traitors seesm strange. It slows down the deck even more.

Who said to do that? I was suggesting to add city instead of petal, or in addition to, depending on what deck you are playing against (presence of wasteland being the determining factor).

[gregtron]

The red lists, do they only splash for Izzet Charm? My first thought was that it opened up the possibility of sideboarding Pyroblast and Pyroclasm, but between Pierece, Flusterstorm, Needle, and Massacre, I just don't see that it's necessary. I also did a tcdecks search for decks containing Reanimate + Izzet Charm, and mostly got stock lists that have shaved 2-3 cards for Charms.

So 1) Is charm really that good, 2) is the splash really as easy as swapping a Sea for a Badlands, and 3) what else can do we improve by adding the splash?

[soapbot]

The red lists, do they only splash for Izzet Charm? My first thought was that it opened up the possibility of sideboarding Pyroblast and Pyroclasm, but between Pierece, Flusterstorm, Needle, and Massacre, I just don't see that it's necessary. I also did a tcdecks search for decks containing Reanimate + Izzet Charm, and mostly got stock lists that have shaved 2-3 cards for Charms.

So 1) Is charm really that good, 2) is the splash really as easy as swapping a Sea for a Badlands, and 3) what else can do we improve by adding the splash?

Although I haven't tested the Izzet charm - it sounds great in theory. You make yourself very susceptible to wasteland and moon effects though, and the deck already hangs by a thread when it comes to mana. You also sacrifice speed, since careful study with a lotus petal can easily spell a T1 win. I was thinking of changing 4 careful study for 4 izzet charm. but I dunno for all 3 cards to work you must have UBR online. (Izzet cham into Reanimate)

[Just me]

Like i asked above, is there anyone who can help me with a SB strategy? I know it's at the frontpage, but only about siding stuff in, not out.

The metagame I expect in Paris for the GP is;
Ant
Show and Tell with sneak attack
RUG
Deathblade
Death and Taxes

How to SB against these decks? In and out?

I'll play with the normal list (U/B), no red or other fancy stuff. (toolbox Entomb with green and flasbackcards is cool though for stuff like Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation, or white with Unburial Rites + Lingering Souls). But taht setup requires a rainbow manabase I think. Not for now.

[kingtk3]

Like i asked above, is there anyone who can help me with a SB strategy? I know it's at the frontpage, but only about siding stuff in, not out.

The metagame I expect in Paris for the GP is;
Ant
Show and Tell with sneak attack
RUG
Deathblade
Death and Taxes

How to SB against these decks? In and out?

I'll play with the normal list (U/B), no red or other fancy stuff. (toolbox Entomb with green and flasbackcards is cool though for stuff like Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation, or white with Unburial Rites + Lingering Souls). But taht setup requires a rainbow manabase I think. Not for now.

I play a main similar to Chris's but my side differs very much, so take my points with a grain of salt.

ANT
OTP: +1 flusterstorm, +2 spell pierce, +2 thoughtseize, +1 echoing thruth, +1 inkwell leviathan, -2 carefull study, -2 reanimate, -1 tidespout tyrant, -2 ponder
OTD: +1 flusterstorm, +2 spell pierce, +1 echoing thruth, +1 inkwell leviathan, -2 carefull study, -2 reanimate, -1 tidespout tyrant

Sneak & Show
OTP: +1 flusterstorm, +1 spell pierce, +2 thoughtseize, +1 ashen rider, +1 pithing needle, -2 show and tell, -1 elesh-norn, -3 ponder (maybe city of traitors is correct here, but I don't know what to side out. 2 petals maybe?)
OTD: +1 flusterstorm, +2 spell pierce, +2 thoughtseize, +1 ashen rider, +1 pithing needle, -2 show and tell, -1 elesh-norn, -2 daze, -2 ponder (maybe city of traitors is correct here, but I don't know what to side out. 2 petals maybe?)

RUG
OTP: +2 city of traitors, +2 show and tell, -1 careful study, -1 reanimate, -2 ponder
OTD: +2 city of traitors, +2 show and tell, +2 thoughtseize, -1 careful study, -1 reanimate, -2 ponder, -2 daze

Deathblade
OTP: +1 pithing needle, +1 inkwell leviathan, +2 massacre, +2 show and tell, +2 thoughtseize, -1 iona, -2 daze, -2 careful study, -1 reanimate, -2 ponder (maybe city of traitors is correct here, but I don't know what to side out. 2 petals maybe?)
OTD: the same

Death and taxes
OTP: +1 inkwell leviathan, +1 ashen rider, +1 pithing needle, +2 massacre, +2 show and tell, +2 thoughtseize, -1 iona, -1 griselbrand, -2 daze, -2 careful study, -1 reanimate, -2 ponder
OTD: +1 inkwell leviathan, +1 ashen rider, +1 pithing needle, +2 massacre, +2 show and tell, -1 iona, -1 griselbrand, -2 daze, -2 careful study, -1 reanimate

[Just me]

Thanks King!

[Just me]

GP Paris was a lot fun, the Paris part quite succesful as well. The GP less so but fun nevertheless.

After messing up the metro-system and earning a 40 minute walk that way I arrive with 5 minutes to spare. The venue is pretty good, the sound is softened by the walls, the catering is decent in quality and price, judges a plenty. Only the space is tight, both when playing and when trying to walk around. Playing space is further reduced by people with playmats, which usually are quite a big bigger as the space intended for 1 match. Oh well, maybe use 1 myself next time.

Rnd 1 Junk
Nice guy from France with Junk. I had a nice Dryad Arbod side for these deck (Liliana decks) to protect my fattie.
I had fast draws in game 1 and 3 where he couldn't keep up. 2nd game I messed up at least twice. 1x by not using my own tech of Dryad Arbor and thus overextending basically. (got a Show and tell for Griselbrand vs his Revoker, his turn Lili. If I take 1 more turn, I drop a Verdant Catacombs before showing and telling. Although he does run discard...).
2-1 win

Rnd 2 MUD
Nice deck and I'm uncertain of the matchup, T1 Chalice on 1 is real bad for us. Game 1 I'm faster, game 3 I mull to 5. Maybe I should have kept my 7, which were 5 lands, 1 Lotus Petal and Griselbrand. The plan would have been to draw, discard, draw and thus have to draws for 1 of 8 reanimate effects (or draw spells to find stuff). Opinions?
3rd game I should have countered the fast mana (either Grim Monolith or the Voltaic Key), since the first Golemn I could counter, but the other threats not. Keeing his mana down is better I learned (the hard way).

Rnd 3 Jund (very pimped deck)
Game 1 is a fast win, like reanimator does at times. 2nd game is a tight affair with Iona naming black (stranding Lili and Deathrite in hand). I loose the race against his Goyfs + BBE though. Lightning Bolt and Punishing Fire made a mess of the math and I kept drawing non-business. So onto game 3. A similar affair, even recruiting one of his own Goyfs to my side didn't help though. Staring down an Ashen Rider and the Goyf, he took about 5 turns to get agressive, during which time I again couldn't find action. Although I did feel unprepared during this game, not Always knowing which line was best.

Rnd 4 Death and Taxes
I lost the first game due to my own misplays. I had a Tyrant out but bounced the wrong permanents (first vials, then Mindcensor + Thalia). although teh low lifetotal made things quite hard, I might have won with better play.
2nd game I kept a risky hand but it paid of with a fast Ashen Rider killing his Karakas. Last game I had a fatty in the yard pronto. It just never came out. Maybe I should have mulled.

Rnd 5 Fire & ice
Weird homebrew, a match I easily won. Biggest victory though was the help he gave me with the metro, clearing the way for an easy trip back to the hotel.

Rnd 6 Burn
Interesting take on burn with Gitaxian Probe, Urza's Bauble and other fun things, including a Karakas (I saw a lot of those). However, burn just isn't good against Griselbrand or Iona on red. Easy 2-0 but again a nice player.

Rnd 7 Turbo Eldrazi
well, after to easier matchups due to all my losses, I was facing more of a real Legacy deck again. This matchup makes the MD Show and Tell dead (unless I use Thoughtseize first). Both games I get a quick Griselbrand (turn 2) and retain control fairly easy. In part since he choose to miracle a Terminus, tapping his Karakas to do so. A mistake I think, since the Karakas can´t be countered but a Terminus can. Surviving the Terminus needed me to go down to 4, but gave me enough gas to reanimate Ashen Rider, killing that Karakas and sealing up the match.

So, I learned more playing is needed to perform decent, especially in Legacy with such a deck where the slightest mistake will cost you the game. But it was great fun!

[PirateKing]

game 3 I mull to 5. Maybe I should have kept my 7, which were 5 lands, 1 Lotus Petal and Griselbrand. The plan would have been to draw, discard, draw and thus have to draws for 1 of 8 reanimate effects (or draw spells to find stuff). Opinions?

Congrats on your games.

That hand is only good in hindsight. The art of the Reanimate is to mulligan aggressively, which is by no means easy. But to break it down, you're live only through topdeck, which is bad. Best case is to attempt on turn 2 with no protection, which is bad. No backup plan at all, which is bad. A new set of 6 cards will always be better than that. You made the right call, even if it didn't turn out for the best.

Keep at it and good luck.

[waffls]

Just came back from Paris. I went 3-3-1 in the main event.

The list I was playing is as follows:

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Entomb

1 Animate Dead

4 Careful Study
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
3 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell

3 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh-Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Lotus Petals

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp

SB:
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons (was a Empyreal Archangel on the mainevent but I switched it out right after that)
1 Blazing Archon
2 Show and Tell
3 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spellpierce
2 Dread of Night
2 Massacre


Round 1 - Elves!:
First Game (started without Byes) was against Elves. Pretty nice! He opened with a Quirion Ranger into more little guys (no DRS, though) and concedet turn 3 when Elesh hit the field. Game 2 is kind of the same deal after trying to rip my hand apart with a Cabal Therapy not hitting anything.

Round 2 - Elves!:
Hey, green men again. He went down after 10 Minutes gaming time and resleeving his whole deck, when asked by a judge (who was there to confirm for me that he only had 15 cards in his sideboard - sleeve your board man!) to do so because of dents and marks on his sleeves (get new sleeves every tournament, man!). He also found out that Elesh Norn quite seals the deal on his deck and he quickly scooped after getting his 2nd turn Glimpse forced and Elesh entombed at the end of his turn. Game 2 was just me laying down the nuts after he resolves a T1 DRS. Iona hit the field on my turn, obviously winning the race against the lonely elf on his side.

Round 3 - Team America:
I shuffle up and see a turn one reanimate into Griselbrand in my hand, protected by a Daze. Awesome! Let's see where this is going. I win the dieroll and lay down my beloved demon. He makes a face as if I had eaten his cat, plays DRS and says go, just to concede 2 turn later after resolving a Delver and not flipping it.
The second game is grindy - really, really grindy. I can resolve a single reanimationspell for a while since he draws into more and more counters. After emptying my whole business into my grave I finally find a topdecked Show and Tell to bring it on with Griselbrand once again. 3 rounds later I get another concession from my opponent.

Round 4 - Dredge:
I open with a slow but controlish hand and Thoughtseize him turn 1. Narcomoeba, City of Traitor, Breakthrough, Stinkweed Imp, Gemstone Mine, double Faithless Looting. Crap! I decide to take away his Breakthrough and pass my turn. Naturally he plays a looting and discards the Imp. I reanimate it in my turn since he obviously has no other Dredger. He plays the second looting, discards Troll and here we go. I still find none of my combo and he just goes rampage putting into play 2 Narcomoebas, Therapies and a Bridge. After 2 turns, I'm dead. Well played, buddy!
Game 2 I got a pretty fast hand but I basically lose to Leyline but if I can put an Elesh Norn into play it is game over for him. I ponder for a moment, keep and he puts the black enchantment into play. I don't find Show and Tell fast enough and concede to his Iona on blue.

Round 5 - Turbo Depths:
Dang, from this point all is going down! I start with an early Griselbrand and see what he's on after he Vampire Hexmages an Dark Depths into a bad-ass tentacle token. I grab my Tidespout and start bouncing this monster into nothingness. Game 2 was my downfall then when I kept a rather slow hand and him going to 6 cards after a mulligan. Thanks to good sportsmanship I tell him he layed 7 cards in front of him and he profusely thanks me and put one back. I again get an early critter - Iona on black this time but he makes a token in his second turn and stops me from winning. I chump with Iona, get out my Ashen Rider via Show and Tell for his token and want to start the beating again. Nope, he just makes another monster. So we both sit there and look at each other. After a long, long (VERY LONG!!!) time, he attacks, I block and remove the token and he just makes another one - damn it! I drew nothing of my business and with 7 minutes on the clock I urge him to shuffle it up for game number 3. I fast-shuffle my deck and look at my 7. No land, mulligan. 6: no business, mulligan. 5: Reanimate some fatty on turn 2? Here we go! The time being my only enemy (4:30 minutes left after all those mulligans) I decide for a rather fast, but more protected kill when I reanimate Iona on black. He get a Depths with Into the North and I start swinging. Time is called... c'mon. He is at 13 life, laying down the Depths. Swing for 7 - he is at 6. Petal, Petal, Thespian Stage... seriously? I chump the 20/20 monster and the game is over. The judge is standing by my side while I ponder over conceding to him because facing the draw bracket is not a good idea. The judge urges me to hurry up and I just write my name on the 1:1-slip. Tilt.

Round 6 and 7 - Patriot:
Counters, Swords to Plowshares, Karakas... not much to add and I am still on tilt for going into this bracket full of decks with the most hate. I lose 4 games in a row and drop.

On sunday I played the Bazaar of Duallands with a final score of 4-2, giving the game away to Miracles in the last round (congrats to Mr. Gutbrod!).
Overall I really like how this deck evolved for me in the last half year. I finally found a creature base, I'm happy with (adding Sigarda to the sideboard is just the best move I ever made while playing reanimator) and also the flex slots with 3 Daze, 3 Thoughtseize and 2 Ponder works out pretty well for me. Even in a full field of Death and Taxes, Miracles and BUG I guess it still is well positioned with it explosive starts and controlelements.

Keep on dancing with the dead! ;)

[Final Fortune]

The red lists, do they only splash for Izzet Charm? My first thought was that it opened up the possibility of sideboarding Pyroblast and Pyroclasm, but between Pierece, Flusterstorm, Needle, and Massacre, I just don't see that it's necessary. I also did a tcdecks search for decks containing Reanimate + Izzet Charm, and mostly got stock lists that have shaved 2-3 cards for Charms.

So 1) Is charm really that good, 2) is the splash really as easy as swapping a Sea for a Badlands, and 3) what else can do we improve by adding the splash?

Izzet Charm is pretty amazing as a swiss army knife kind of card, I've also liked Burning Wish for similar reasons altho' it's very slow.

[waffls]

Izzet Charm is pretty amazing as a swiss army knife kind of card, I've also liked Burning Wish for similar reasons altho' it's very slow.

Don't you find the same to be true about Izzet Charm? It costs you 2 mana and accomplishes almost the same as Show and Tell (play around DRS, getting a fatty into play) but you need another card as well for it to work (either a card to put a fatty in to your grave or a reanimate-spell). Would you play it in a list with Show and Tell main? I found that to be quite clunky.
I recently moved from the red version to the classic U/B and am still amazed how much smoother the deck runs. I was literally a big defender of Izzet Charm a long time and still find it amazingly powerful - but in a deck full of powerful cards it does actually less than it should because of the thread density we already have. Hope you get my point.

[kingsey]

Took first at my local tonight with reanimator.

Tidespout tyrant (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=107408) was amazing all night.

I won vs lands by bouncing his maze of iths and glacier chasm and then bash in for lethal.

[Mortox]

I'm new to this deck and have a question: how often, if ever, is it correct to keep a no-land hand with 2 Lotus Petals that can combo off T1?

Lotus Petal + Lotus Petal + Entomb + Reanimate + 3 random/non-FoW/uncastables

I've kept these sorts of hands a couple times now against unknown opponents and they've worked out, but obviously against any FoW/Daze you would would be in bad shape. Maybe it's less risky on the play when opponent has no land in play (so your only real concern is FoW) although they could also untap + Plains + Plow as well so there's that.

Anyway just curious, I thought this deck would be easy to mulligan with but I've constantly gotten 'weird' hands where I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do.

With all the counters/discard I assume the general game-plan is to combo off with protection as much as possible, and not doing so is kind of wasting a lot of your decks resources/draws, but again I'm not sure what the more experienced players think about this, I'd love to hear.

edit: I'm also curious what the best course of action is against Sneak&Show players. I've read that it's often correct to side out your Show & Tells against them, but the few times I've played the matchup, in G2/3 they have graveyard hate (I've seen Grafdiggers, Leyline of the Void, etc) which I then have to filter through my deck to try and find an out for. I wonder if sometimes it might be right to leave in Show & Tell and cheat in either a Tidespout Tyrant or Ashen Rider to destroy/bounce whatever they cheat in. I suspect most S&T players would go for either a Sneak Attack or Emrakul off our S&T thinking they're going to "get us" but then we remove/bounce either one and carry on. Again, just thinking out loud and looking for advice. I've been reading through as much content as possible but still don't have a solid understanding of some of this stuff.

[Will_L]

I'm new to this deck and have a question: how often, if ever, is it correct to keep a no-land hand with 2 Lotus Petals that can combo off T1?

Lotus Petal + Lotus Petal + Entomb + Reanimate + 3 random/non-FoW/uncastables

If I am on the play G1 against an unknown opponent I would for sure jam that hand. There is realistically, in legacy, only 1 card they could have to stop you: Force of Will.

If you are on the draw against an unknown opponent I would not keep that hand because they potentially have way, way more ways to keep you from winning.

[soapbot]

Don't you find the same to be true about Izzet Charm? It costs you 2 mana and accomplishes almost the same as Show and Tell (play around DRS, getting a fatty into play) but you need another card as well for it to work (either a card to put a fatty in to your grave or a reanimate-spell). Would you play it in a list with Show and Tell main? I found that to be quite clunky.
I recently moved from the red version to the classic U/B and am still amazed how much smoother the deck runs. I was literally a big defender of Izzet Charm a long time and still find it amazingly powerful - but in a deck full of powerful cards it does actually less than it should because of the thread density we already have. Hope you get my point.

What is the mana-base for running izzet charm? I've ran Dimir charm without show and tells with excellent results. No longer do you fear DRS or Thalia
I usually side in 4 show and tells to completely dodge graveyard hate

Running Izzet charm made the deck slower, but there has to be an optimum mana base to speed things up.

[soapbot]

If I am on the play G1 against an unknown opponent I would for sure jam that hand. There is realistically, in legacy, only 1 card they could have to stop you: Force of Will.

If you are on the draw against an unknown opponent I would not keep that hand because they potentially have way, way more ways to keep you from winning.


Dude keep this hand no matter what - On the draw you could draw an island to daze, FOW, careful study, or any business. All the opponent can do is DRS, Vial, Lackey, Delver, or combo out. if they daze, or FOW, thoughtseize, you were probably going to lose mulling down to 6.
The hand is basically "I win, if you interrupt I lose" which is far better than "Let me see if I can win with 6, and then Lose"

[nevilshute]

I'm thinking about picking up this deck. As there are a lot of Death and Taxes around my local meta I'm curious to hear what experienced Reanimator pilots think of this matchup?

Their 3-4 Karakas seem like a problem. During early combo turns do you just go for the Griselbrand anyway (if they don't have Karakas on board already) and hope for the best? Also, which silver bullit is best here? I'm guessing one of either Ashen Rider, Tidespout Tyrant or Inkwell Leviathan. Any insights would be appreciated :)

[Esper3k]

What is the mana-base for running izzet charm? I've ran Dimir charm without show and tells with excellent results. No longer do you fear DRS or Thalia
I usually side in 4 show and tells to completely dodge graveyard hate

Running Izzet charm made the deck slower, but there has to be an optimum mana base to speed things up.

I run -1 Swamp, -1 Underground Sea, +1 Badlands, +1 Volcanic Island (along with the 4x Lotus Petals) and haven't really had any mana issues with it.


I'm thinking about picking up this deck. As there are a lot of Death and Taxes around my local meta I'm curious to hear what experienced Reanimator pilots think of this matchup?

Their 3-4 Karakas seem like a problem. During early combo turns do you just go for the Griselbrand anyway (if they don't have Karakas on board already) and hope for the best? Also, which silver bullit is best here? I'm guessing one of either Ashen Rider, Tidespout Tyrant or Inkwell Leviathan. Any insights would be appreciated :)

Karakas is usually the worst card for us to see, which is why Pithing Needle and non-Legendary guys are so important. Grave Titan is a huge beating against them. If they don't immediately StP it, they're in for a real rough game.

[PirateKing]

Additionally I would say, though probably not against D&T, given the choice (ie Entomb) going for Girselbrand without protection should be avoided post sideboard. With 4/7 of the targets all the same, a single Surgical Extraction or worse, Extirpate truly destroys any followup play. In a situation of no apparent obstacles but an unknown hand, I'd advocate for going for one of the single card threats.

Best case is you land a Grave Titan or equal and it wins you the game, same as Griselbrand would.
Middle case is the are about to counter your reanimate or nix the creature using Faerie Macabre, but no worse off than if you went with Griselbrand
The point of the exercise, they nuke the target using a Extirpate and you're glad you didn't lose half of your targets.
And then some worse case scenario where they had nothing, the creature got through, but then wasn't enough to close the game because it wasn't Griselbrand, for whatever reason.

Specifically against S&T, Inkwell would probably be my first pick, Grave Titan as a second.

[waffls]

Additionally I would say, though probably not against D&T, given the choice (ie Entomb) going for Girselbrand without protection should be avoided post sideboard. With 4/7 of the targets all the same, a single Surgical Extraction or worse, Extirpate truly destroys any followup play. In a situation of no apparent obstacles but an unknown hand, I'd advocate for going for one of the single card threats.

Best case is you land a Grave Titan or equal and it wins you the game, same as Griselbrand would.
Middle case is the are about to counter your reanimate or nix the creature using Faerie Macabre, but no worse off than if you went with Griselbrand
The point of the exercise, they nuke the target using a Extirpate and you're glad you didn't lose half of your targets.
And then some worse case scenario where they had nothing, the creature got through, but then wasn't enough to close the game because it wasn't Griselbrand, for whatever reason.

Specifically against S&T, Inkwell would probably be my first pick, Grave Titan as a second.

I'd like to differ. Depending on your creaturesuite I always would go for a flyer since Mother of Runes is a serious problem for us. I have 2 Dread of Night and 2 Massacre in my sideboard especially against DnT but I often find myself in a situation where I need evasion to play around an active mother.

[PirateKing]

I'd like to differ. Depending on your creaturesuite I always would go for a flyer since Mother of Runes is a serious problem for us. I have 2 Dread of Night and 2 Massacre in my sideboard especially against DnT but I often find myself in a situation where I need evasion to play around an active mother.

To what do you object? Inkwell's trample moves through blockers at enough a pace as any. It's shroud keeps it safe but from a rogue wipe. Any non-legendary flier would put up just as fast a clock and offer nothing else. Same with Grave Titan, I'd be delighted if they chumped the 6/6 all day long, as long as he attacks and doesn't die, all's well.

What creature would you have me fetch?

[waffls]

To what do you object? Inkwell's trample moves through blockers at enough a pace as any. It's shroud keeps it safe but from a rogue wipe. Any non-legendary flier would put up just as fast a clock and offer nothing else. Same with Grave Titan, I'd be delighted if they chumped the 6/6 all day long, as long as he attacks and doesn't die, all's well.

What creature would you have me fetch?

Depends on the gamestate of course. Early I really like a Griselbrand, if only to draw 7, but generally I want to have Iona or Empyreal Archangel postboard in the following stages of the game. I don't play Grave Titan but I totally agree that he is awesome in this matchup. Maybe I should throw him in again.

[PirateKing]

Depends on the gamestate of course. Early I really like a Griselbrand, if only to draw 7, but generally I want to have Iona or Empyreal Archangel postboard in the following stages of the game. I don't play Grave Titan but I totally agree that he is awesome in this matchup. Maybe I should throw him in again.

I'm not quite so sure flying is as much evasion as is needed with the popular lists running Serra Avenger at the soldier of choice. They get an active Mom and any flyer really, that will shut off your lifelink and put you in a losing race. Trample does a lot here to get damage through blockers and keep some momentum in your clock.

If the plan is to Massacre the board, that's fine, but that isn't really relevant to this specific line of play, any creature would do at that point.

[PirateKing]

Has anybody seen the list that took second at Coopersburg?

Nick Patnode
2nd
3 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Careful Study
4 Lotus Petal
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ponder
1 Animate Dead

2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta

/Side
3 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
3 Dark Ritual
1 Thoughtseize
2 Dread of night
1 Ashen Rider
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Crippling Fatigue
1 Coffin Purge

I was going through it seeing how it compared to my list, pulling my hair out because I couldn't figure out how he had so many more Ponders and Thoughtseizes and reanimation spells until it hit me. This list has no Show and Tells.

How did it do so well, just lucksacked through a 173 man tournament? With 8 basics and 2 duals there appears to be some budget elements to the list, was that the reason for the omission?

I've been trying to find a way to maintain success without S&T and have had poor to moderate results endeavoring. I had begrudgingly accepted the reality that there is no better alternative to fight hate than the workaround of S&T, but this! This may breathe new hope! Unless it was just lucky draws and godhands 8 rounds in a row. Then I'll be sad.

So Nick, if you're here, explain yourself!

[Madmankevinx]

I'm curious about no show and tell myself... I'll ask Nick on Thursday I I see him at our weekly.

[Stryfo]

I have been playing without show and tells for well over a year now and consistently do well at larger tournaments. I got 20th at the start of the year at GP Denver, I frequently top 16 SCG when they show up in Seattle and in the past two weeks I have top 8ed two larger (71, 52 person) tournaments with Swiss records of 5-1 and 5-0-1 respectively. This deck has no need of show and tell to be successful. The thing I have been doing is experimenting, trying out different lines of play and different board strategies. My mainboard has been the same since GP Denver (with the exception of two weeks or so where I tested out lotus petals), and it works like a well oiled machine in my experience.

It's helpful not to tunnel-vision with this deck in construction or while playing.

Just my two bits.

[slave]

hi guys,

Whats the word of gravehate? Namely dredge, the reanimator mirror etc. etc.
Do we just race them, rely on Reanimate to steal what they have, or do some of you have a fave hate-card to stop them with?

[PirateKing]

Coffin Purge is good because you can entomb for it and flash it back, or use it twice if it's in your hand. Also a headache for them if they only have one counter, you can still get through.
Faerie Macabre is not as good, but better than a second Coffin Purge, you can discard it to hit the graveyard then reanimate for value.
Anything heavier would probably be served by Extirpate or Surgical Extraction, but if your meta is so saturated with Dredge and the mirror that you need these cards, it's only a matter of time before people shift their sideboards accordingly and then you'll be caught up in it as well.

In actually playing the mirror, I've found under most circumstances, the player that tries to go off first loses. It ends up being lots of baiting counters and hand sculpting. Some people have used Dark Ritual or Bloodghast as ways to subvert the mirror and other poor match ups, with various successes noted.

Against Dredge I try and keep up counters for the Dread Return, keep my hand free from molestation, and just get there without too much dilly-daddling.

[Mortox]

There's been a couple people on MTGO running transformational sideboards into what is basically a full Sneak & Show combo deck post board, and posting up a lot of 3-1 and 4-0 results over the last month or so.

The lists transformational sideboard cards include:

4 Sneak Attack
2 Show & Tell (to go with 2 MD)
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

(also running 3 Pyroblast and 2 Jin-Gitaxian Core Augur. The Jin-Gitaxians are probably part of the sideboard plan so they can be snuck in at end of opponents turn to force discard)

I assume siding out some number of the typical reanimate cards (Exhumes, Entombs, Careful Study probably) while keeping in some Reanimates and either Careful Study or Entomb so it can still function as a diluted Reanimate deck if the opponent doesn't cast any hate cards. Also able to Reanimate creatures after they've been sacrificed due to Sneak Attack if necessary.

Has this been a strategy discussed at all?

[into_play]

Is Sigarda, Host of Herons currently the better choice of shroud creature than Inkwell Leviathan or Empyrial Archangel? It seems that Liliana of the Veil's usage has only increased since her release, and consequently Inkwell and Empyrial are not as untouchable as before. Sigarda's drawback is her small size, and maybe that's not worth it compared to the Leviathan being a decent beater when it's your only creature in the bin via a Careful Study? Empyrial's redirect ability ends up being a liability many times for me, so I am really having a hard time deciding between Sigarda and Inkwell in this creature slot.

[Darklingske]

I've found Sigarda a top target in a meta infested with BUG. I wouldn't say small size once your butt is a 5/5. Only Goyf is a regular bigger one then sigarda. And since our creatures can enter the BF T2 it just gives your opponent 4 turns to race her. If you're uncomfortable with "only a 5/5", try Grave Titan. Once it enters the BF you already have 10 power to beatdown.

[kingtk3]

Versus decks with StP inkwell is better than sigarda for the bigger body and islandwalk/trample, which is relevant against miracle (they entreat for two and sigarda is now useless) or decks that can chump block sigarda while delivering damage (patriot comes into mind).

Against decks with liliana grave titan is better than sigarda because of the bigger body, 2 turn clock if unmolested, and provides blockers: decks with liliana have tipically a fast clock (BUG delver) or reach (jund), so being able to attack AND to keep something on defense is big.
Moreover, grave titan can also be hardcast, which in the past has been relevant for me at least a couple of times.

I would play both, if you don't have space in the main play one in the side accordingly with your meta, but I think they are both superior to sigarda in the matchup where you want hexproof or protection from sacrifice effects.

[PirateKing]

Planning on trying the no S&T-Dark Ritual build next. Anybody here have experience with it? Any strategies to aim for beyond scaling back the reanimation for hardcasting creatures? Are there any unintended consequences or new found threats in game 3 when the cat is out of the bag? Thanks.

[Deckerator]

Have you got problems against decks with DRS?
Does the mono black deck not fail a bit against graveyard hate?

Is this deck good in a meta full of sneak&show?

[Stryfo]

Reanimator is great in a meta full of sneak and show. Reanimator preys on all of the other combo decks in the format.

[Rome]

Does anyone tested Boseiju, Who Shelters All in the sideboard instead of city of traitors?

Its very strong against decks with endless countermagic.

But the problems are: the card is very slow because its enters the battlefield tapped and you cannot protect entomb and reanimate.

[PirateKing]

The purpose of City of Traitors is to add speed to the otherwise slow Show and Tell sideboard plan, turning a 3-turn wait into a 2-turn wait. Opposing countermagic has never been more of an issue now then it ever was before. All of our counters are defensive in nature, there to protect the otherwise devastating early threat that closes the game out before they get anything meaningful online. Slowing the deck down to add resiliency would be a net negative in that they have more time to prepare a proper defense and put up threats of their own. Additionally of our key spells don't have colorless in them, so Boseiju, Who Shelters All ends up falling too short to be included.

That's my read on the card at least.

[nodahero]

I agree that Boseiju has no place in this deck. The only spell it really protects is Exhume and waiting till turn 3 to do it is dangers in a wasteland heavy format.

[Just me]

Hi all,

Owen Turtenwald has a nice article over on channelfireball. He also states that he thinks the Lotus Petals are weak in the deck. He does have a point I think, too me, he seems to consider them as a crutch.

Anyway, his arguments brought me back to an old idea. The deck is very very good, has a nice velocity but sometimes lacks action and interaction. These draws are holding the deck back.

I keeo trying to jam 4 Deathrite Shaman and 3 Liliana of the Veil in the deck. This fits easily enough if you consider Lotus Petals, Ponders and maybe a Daze or Show and Tell as cuttable (is that a word in English?) cards.
However, the blue count gets to low for a reliable Force of Will. Has anyone else considered this approach? Maybe this 'splash' could go even deeper and add red over blue for Faithless Looting (replace Careful Study, synergy with Liliana) and other quality cards to replace Brainstorm and Force of Will. Think stuiff like Lightning Bolt, more discard with Duress, higher number of Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek.

there are some problems of course, the discard is nice, but Griselbrand is sick in the deck in large part due to the alternative castable counters, with FoW headlining this section way ahead of Daze. This slot could be taken by the black discard which let's you remove a card (don't remember the name), but that doesn't keep you safe from a topdeck.

In such a deck, I also think that Tidespout Tyrant (any deck without Petals really) should be replaced with Ashen Rider.

A list, because list help visualize the results of the ideas;

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress (or IoK)
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
1 Ashen Rider
4 Unmask (remembered!)
18 Lands

It loses the alternate plan of Show and Tell, it gains Deathrite Shaman + Liliana as alternate winconditions (though they're more control/tempo which synergizes with the deck).
Ideally, the deck would be BUG I guess, retaining the good stuff from blue. But how does FoW remain reliable?

Suggestions and criticism is welcome.

[Juice11]

Hi all,

Owen Turtenwald has a nice article over on channelfireball. He also states that he thinks the Lotus Petals are weak in the deck. He does have a point I think, too me, he seems to consider them as a crutch.

Anyway, his arguments brought me back to an old idea. The deck is very very good, has a nice velocity but sometimes lacks action and interaction. These draws are holding the deck back.

I keeo trying to jam 4 Deathrite Shaman and 3 Liliana of the Veil in the deck. This fits easily enough if you consider Lotus Petals, Ponders and maybe a Daze or Show and Tell as cuttable (is that a word in English?) cards.
However, the blue count gets to low for a reliable Force of Will. Has anyone else considered this approach? Maybe this 'splash' could go even deeper and add red over blue for Faithless Looting (replace Careful Study, synergy with Liliana) and other quality cards to replace Brainstorm and Force of Will. Think stuiff like Lightning Bolt, more discard with Duress, higher number of Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek.

there are some problems of course, the discard is nice, but Griselbrand is sick in the deck in large part due to the alternative castable counters, with FoW headlining this section way ahead of Daze. This slot could be taken by the black discard which let's you remove a card (don't remember the name), but that doesn't keep you safe from a topdeck.

In such a deck, I also think that Tidespout Tyrant (any deck without Petals really) should be replaced with Ashen Rider.

A list, because list help visualize the results of the ideas;

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress (or IoK)
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
1 Ashen Rider
4 Unmask (remembered!)
18 Lands

It loses the alternate plan of Show and Tell, it gains Deathrite Shaman + Liliana as alternate winconditions (though they're more control/tempo which synergizes with the deck).
Ideally, the deck would be BUG I guess, retaining the good stuff from blue. But how does FoW remain reliable?

Suggestions and criticism is welcome.


I'm not sure how I feel about splashing red and green. Seems a bit much for liliana and DRS and bolts. They don't really compliment our original game plan. and they're not too much of a reliable alternate win condition. I would much rather have a green splash in the board for abrupt decay and other problem permanents (like T.E.S. does). I'f you're going to cut Lotus petals, I think some sort of discard or extra counterspells are needed. My petal-less list is something like this:

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Careful Study
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
3 Duress (or IoK)
4 Brainstorm
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona/Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Elesh Norn
1 Ashen Rider
3 Daze
2 Spell Peirce
1 Show and Tell
18 Lands

[Just me]

Well, the above list runs 18 lands, so it's not really a change, just swap in 3 lands and a spell in over the Petals (like the deck on Channelfirbeall I mentioned).
But I think cutting Petals, retaining few lands (16) and adding 4 Shamans as additional mana-source is viable. We run a huge amount of fetchlands. Having something like this also works;

1 island
1 swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island (if you want 4 colors, which I doubt)
10 fetchlands

Maybe I should be less ambitious and just add the Deathrite Shaman over Lotus Petals. It's also mana so it should work. And it adds disruption (which Petals doesn't) and it adds lifegain, which is pretty sweet in this deck, effectively countering a Bolt in many situations (thus improving Reanimate, Thoughtseize and Griselbrand's ability). Maaaayyyyybe 3 Shamans and a Liliana, sicne the discard isn't symmetrical at all in this deck. And it's great against 'fair' decks which hinder us a lot (like Death and Taxes for example).

[Valtrix]

With the risk of looking silly, has anybody tried out a BUG version of reanimator? For awhile I thought such a build might be interesting to look at. I think the green splash is actually very intriguing, even if ultimately it's not the direction the deck should go. Xantid Swarm is a very powerful card for this type of deck. Also, so is Green Sun's Zenith, with the right targets. You can turn it into a protection spell by fetching the aforementioned swarm. You can ramp with Dryad Arbor, although admittedly the extra G is probably not the most useful due to color restrictions in the deck. You can get a discard outlet with Greenseeker. After board you can use zenith to fetch up anti-hate in the form of Viridian Zealot, or something similar. There's also the ability to play Abrupt Decay. Also, by moving to some creatures this gives you more outs to sacrifice effects and makes cabal therapy a very appealing card, which I think is potentially a very powerful protection spell and discard spell for yourself.

Anyway, I haven't tested this (because I'm lazy), but I like throwing things together for fun and talking about them, even if it's potentially terrible. Gotta fail until you find awesome things! So, with all the above thrown together a starting list I think might look like:

// Lands
2 [RS] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [B] Tropical Island
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [IN] Island (1)
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ZEN] Swamp (1)

// Creatures
4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
1 [THS] Ashen Rider
1 [TSP] Greenseeker
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 [AVR] Griselbrand
1 [NPH] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

// Spells
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [V13] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [OD] Careful Study
4 [PD3] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [ARC] Reanimate
4 [PD3] Exhume

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Viridian Zealot

[Juice11]

With the risk of looking silly, has anybody tried out a BUG version of reanimator? For awhile I thought such a build might be interesting to look at. I think the green splash is actually very intriguing, even if ultimately it's not the direction the deck should go. Xantid Swarm is a very powerful card for this type of deck. Also, so is Green Sun's Zenith, with the right targets. You can turn it into a protection spell by fetching the aforementioned swarm. You can ramp with Dryad Arbor, although admittedly the extra G is probably not the most useful due to color restrictions in the deck. You can get a discard outlet with Greenseeker. After board you can use zenith to fetch up anti-hate in the form of Viridian Zealot, or something similar. There's also the ability to play Abrupt Decay. Also, by moving to some creatures this gives you more outs to sacrifice effects and makes cabal therapy a very appealing card, which I think is potentially a very powerful protection spell and discard spell for yourself.

Anyway, I haven't tested this (because I'm lazy), but I like throwing things together for fun and talking about them, even if it's potentially terrible. Gotta fail until you find awesome things! So, with all the above thrown together a starting list I think might look like:

// Lands
2 [RS] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [B] Tropical Island
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [IN] Island (1)
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ZEN] Swamp (1)

// Creatures
4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
1 [THS] Ashen Rider
1 [TSP] Greenseeker
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 [AVR] Griselbrand
1 [NPH] Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

// Spells
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [V13] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [OD] Careful Study
4 [PD3] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [ARC] Reanimate
4 [PD3] Exhume

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Viridian Zealot

I have been considering bug reanimator for abrupt decay for a while. I'm not really sure you want xantid swarm main deck though. It seems more like a sideboard card that comes in for control match ups. I also still like thoughtseize and duress better than cabal therapy. I also don't like 4 gsz either, you're not really getting anything of consequence. With as much miracles running around, maindeck abrupt decays seem really strong. I would start with something like this:



2 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island

4 Griselbrand
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
3 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard:

1 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pithing Needle
2 chain of vapor
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Show and Tell

[Ragdoll]

6 thoughtseize?

[Richard Cheese]

6 thoughtseize?

Shhhhhhhhhh....art crawl.

[Lithium]

I've recently cut Iona in favor of Grave Titan main. I was thinking about maybe trying to fit her into the sideboard, but I feel like I only used Iona for the Storm matchup because every other matchup feels better with one of the other options. I mainly play online so my meta is very very diverse. Are there matchups that i'm not utilizing Iona like I should?

This is the current 75 i'm running.

Lands (16)
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

Creatures (7)
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Grave Titan

Artifacts (4)
4 Lotus Petal

Spells (33)
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
2 Ponder
4 Entomb
2 Show and Tell
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Massacre
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Show and Tell
2 City of Traitors
1 Thoughtseize

This is what I was thinking about when I put the sideboard together.
Pithing Needle for Karakas, Deathrite Shaman, Jace, Liliana, Relic of Progenitus.
Echoing Truth for Leyline, Rest in Peace.
Engineered Explosives for Rest in Peace, Counterbalance, random 1-3 casting cost roadblocks.
Massacre to sweep the Death and Taxes or Deathblade/Esper Stoneblade boards so I can solidify my boardstate again.
Inkwell Leviathan for Jace and targetable removal.
Show and Tell, City of Traitors, and Thoughtseize are a package to transform into a more Show and Tell strategy against massive grave hate.

I like having the creature suite of 4 Griselbrand, 1 Elesh Norn, 1 Ashen Rider, and 1 Grave Titan because I feel like I have more answers and flexibility with this suite. Griselbrand is just awesome and is usually the go to first target for reanimation. Elesh Norn helps sweep the board against most fair decks. Ashen Rider helps as main deck anti hate and isn't legendary. Grave Titan is a 2 turn clock that isn't legendary and has deathtouch plus gives me blockers on the back end.

[Juice11]

6 thoughtseize?

Obviously not, I edited it. The 3 in the board were supposed to be show and tells. Any comments on the actual deck list besides pointing out errors?

[Rome]

I have some questions to the boarding plans in the Reanimator deck:

I am running this list:

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Griselbrand
2 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Lotus Petal
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Angel of Despair
SB: 2 Show and Tell
SB: 1 Empyrial Archangel
SB: 2 City of Traitors
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Duress

How do I board against Miracles and how do I board against Team America?

[RE89]

Against u/w/x and white vial decks, I usually take out almost all the Griselbrands out for shroud targets like Inkwell Leviathan and Empyrial Archangel, and take out Daze for some combination of Spell Pierce/Thoughtseize/Echoing Truth, while trying to race.

[th3 w1z4rd]

Against u/w/x and white vial decks, I usually take out almost all the Griselbrands out for shroud targets like Inkwell Leviathan and Empyrial Archangel, and take out Daze for some combination of Spell Pierce/Thoughtseize/Echoing Truth, while trying to race.

Never take out Griselbrand.

[Anselm]

Quick question: against Storm (ANT), do you usually go for Iona or Griselbrand post-sb? Iona on black can be beaten by Chain of Vapor (or Karakas), but Griselbrand can brick on drawing FoW.

[BadLegacyPlayer]

Never take out Griselbrand.
Yes, that is a very good move. The reason is that those decks run Karakas and will bounce a Griselbrand. It also stops Mangara's ability.

[Just me]

Quick question: against Storm (ANT), do you usually go for Iona or Griselbrand post-sb? Iona on black can be beaten by Chain of Vapor (or Karakas), but Griselbrand can brick on drawing FoW.

If you take black, you have your counters, needles and discard to handle the hate. They usually cannot counter back so you should be fine with Iona, unless they get the Karakas. But that card is a pain for us anyway.

[Joe Eigo]

I guess i agree on not siding Grisel out generally spoken.


Yes, that is a very good move. The reason is that those decks run Karakas and will bounce a Griselbrand. It also stops Mangara's ability.

Why not draw 7-14 cards in that situation and play Needle and Grisel again the following turn... ?

[RE89]

Not all the Griselbrands, just enough so that you aren't blown out by Karakas, Phyrexian Revoker, and Pithing Needle together game 2 and onward. I probably have a bias from playing against the same 12 to 16 people over and over again though.

[th3 w1z4rd]

Yes, that is a very good move. The reason is that those decks run Karakas and will bounce a Griselbrand. It also stops Mangara's ability.

Doesn't matter. You can still draw a million cards in response to Karakas. If you can't win after that, you're probably not very good.

[PirateKing]

Doesn't matter. You can still draw a million cards in response to Karakas. If you can't win after that, you're probably not very good.

This comment is both untrue and unhelpful.

With fetch lands, life loss through Reanimate and early pokes from your opponent, "drawing a million cards" isn't always a possibility, especially if he doesn't survive long enough to get an attack in. Specifically, interaction with Karakas depends if it's in play prior to you reanimation turn or if they rip it some time afterwards. If you play Griselbrand into an existing Karakas without some kind of follow up, then I'd categorize that as a misplay, since he's bounced at the end of your turn, with no value gained on your side.

The plan could be to use remaining life to draw into a nonlegendary/shroud dude and stick that for your clock, or dig for a Pithing Needle, knowing that Griselbrand would be bounced in response, and then stick him a second time for a win. If you don't have the life to draw on the reanimation turn or some other trick to pull, then he's pretty dead.

If they top deck it, or otherwise Crop Rotation it into play on their next turn, pretty much same situation as above, with more surprise on your end. As before, if you have the life to muster a follow up, proceed with that line, if not, well then you went and got gotten. It happens.

Either way, without Needle on Karakas or a nonlegendary/shroud creature or a bunch of life to tap into, Karakas is a legitimate threat for Reanimator decks. And since we're usually not flush with life until we've locked the game up already, be prepared to utilize options 1 & 2 more often.

[th3 w1z4rd]

This comment is both untrue and unhelpful.

With fetch lands, life loss through Reanimate and early pokes from your opponent, "drawing a million cards" isn't always a possibility, especially if he doesn't survive long enough to get an attack in. Specifically, interaction with Karakas depends if it's in play prior to you reanimation turn or if they rip it some time afterwards. If you play Griselbrand into an existing Karakas without some kind of follow up, then I'd categorize that as a misplay, since he's bounced at the end of your turn, with no value gained on your side.

The plan could be to use remaining life to draw into a nonlegendary/shroud dude and stick that for your clock, or dig for a Pithing Needle, knowing that Griselbrand would be bounced in response, and then stick him a second time for a win. If you don't have the life to draw on the reanimation turn or some other trick to pull, then he's pretty dead.

If they top deck it, or otherwise Crop Rotation it into play on their next turn, pretty much same situation as above, with more surprise on your end. As before, if you have the life to muster a follow up, proceed with that line, if not, well then you went and got gotten. It happens.

Either way, without Needle on Karakas or a nonlegendary/shroud creature or a bunch of life to tap into, Karakas is a legitimate threat for Reanimator decks. And since we're usually not flush with life until we've locked the game up already, be prepared to utilize options 1 & 2 more often.

Considering the deck that was being discussed was Death and Taxes, which has NO clock, I stand by my original statement. You will indeed be able to draw many cards by getting Griselbrand regardless of Karakas, because DnT is very slow to deal damage. If you want to argue that you weren't able to get Griselbrand out in the first few turns, then you should have mulliganed. I've beaten Turn 1 Karakas many times, it's not that bad.

[Just me]

I don't know man. D&T as a deck and Karakas as a card are real headaches to me. I mean, digging for 7-14 cards is all nice and well, but the gameplan remains winning with a fatty. And as long as they run Karakas maindeck and we do not have a maindeck answer, our entire strategy is invalidated (swing with a fatty). So having a gazillion cards might not help that much.

Only if you manage to overload the single Karakas somehow (and don't run into a second one, or a Swords or other removal) you might win.

And their clock isn't slow anymore once you go down to 4-5-6 life (depening on fetchlands, thoughtseize, Reanimate and 1-2 Griselbrand activations). If they have 2 weenies, attacking with your 1 fatty becomes very dangerous (removal = you die. No lifelink = you die).

[ultraviolent2]

Hi guys!
I have a question concerning sideboarding with the S&T and City of Traitors lists.
If you side in 2 x City of Traitors, do you side out 2 lands? 1 land and 1 petal? or something else?
Do you side out lands at all?
Thanks for your answers!

[Hiiragizawa]

Hi guys!
I have a question concerning sideboarding with the S&T and City of Traitors lists.
If you side in 2 x City of Traitors, do you side out 2 lands? 1 land and 1 petal? or something else?
Do you side out lands at all?
Thanks for your answers!

I usually side out two fetches but it depends on the matchup if I need to take out more unusable stuff for post-sideboard games, which could leave me room to squeeze in the Cities of Traitors.

[th3 w1z4rd]

I don't know man. D&T as a deck and Karakas as a card are real headaches to me. I mean, digging for 7-14 cards is all nice and well, but the gameplan remains winning with a fatty. And as long as they run Karakas maindeck and we do not have a maindeck answer, our entire strategy is invalidated (swing with a fatty). So having a gazillion cards might not help that much.

Only if you manage to overload the single Karakas somehow (and don't run into a second one, or a Swords or other removal) you might win.

And their clock isn't slow anymore once you go down to 4-5-6 life (depening on fetchlands, thoughtseize, Reanimate and 1-2 Griselbrand activations). If they have 2 weenies, attacking with your 1 fatty becomes very dangerous (removal = you die. No lifelink = you die).

I always run Angel of Despair or Ashen Rider maindeck to deal with problems like this or Ensnaring Bridge, Energy Field, etc. But for people that don't do this it's true that Karakas is more of a beating. Although you can get Elesh Norn and wipe their field despite Karakas to buy more time. I do run Pithing Needle in the board as well of course.

[Just me]

I always run Angel of Despair or Ashen Rider maindeck to deal with problems like this or Ensnaring Bridge, Energy Field, etc. But for people that don't do this it's true that Karakas is more of a beating. Although you can get Elesh Norn and wipe their field despite Karakas to buy more time. I do run Pithing Needle in the board as well of course.

Yes, but time to do what? Elesh is a legend so it will be bounced (if there's a Karakas). And then what? Wait for a new clock on their side?
My point is that, unless you can solve the Karakas, defeat is inevitable due to a bad strategic matchup, no matter the cardadavantage Griselbrand might generate. Useless cards are useless (so stating that one is a bad player if you lose after drawing7-14 cards seems like a loose statement).

An relying on 1-2 Needles between main and board seems not that much. Asher Rider is much better (and easier to find in this deck).

[PollePotDK]

Can some one please tell why Ashen Rider is preferred over Tidespout Tyrant? I know Tidspout needs an extra spell to just bounce, but Ashen Rider is a one-shot creature when it comes to removal.

/Jacob

[th3 w1z4rd]

Yes, but time to do what? Elesh is a legend so it will be bounced (if there's a Karakas). And then what? Wait for a new clock on their side?
My point is that, unless you can solve the Karakas, defeat is inevitable due to a bad strategic matchup, no matter the cardadavantage Griselbrand might generate. Useless cards are useless (so stating that one is a bad player if you lose after drawing7-14 cards seems like a loose statement).

An relying on 1-2 Needles between main and board seems not that much. Asher Rider is much better (and easier to find in this deck).

Time to get rid of Karakas, obviously.

[Just me]

Can some one please tell why Ashen Rider is preferred over Tidespout Tyrant? I know Tidspout needs an extra spell to just bounce, but Ashen Rider is a one-shot creature when it comes to removal.

/Jacob

Matchup dependant. Against Karakas the Rider is much better. Against Mud I prefer Tyrant. One can be main imo, the other Sideboard.

[PollePotDK]

I saw that Cucunato did rather well at the latest SCG Open Series and my eye catches his two Jaces in the SB. Weird, I thought.

Can anyone explain me, in which matchup one would sideboard two Jaces in along with the City of Traitors (I assume!)?

Wouldn't he just be removed in one turn? He can't seriously be a win-con.

/Jacob

[PirateKing]

Some decks slow themselves down steeply to counter our graveyards to such extent that we could drop Jace for good effect. Also works well enough in the mirror. I experimented with 2 in my list for a few tournaments, and found his uses being blue pitch, expensive brainstorm, dead card and win condition, in that order. But I had a handful of other rogue elements at the same time, so my experience shouldn't be taken as canon.

Also there's been a trend to be less reliant on S&T as our alternate wincon, since it's grown to such saturation that it's hated just as hard in game 2 as the graveyard. Look at decks running Dark Ritual to hardcast creatures for example.

[Deckerator]

What about playing a shallow grave and emrakul package? It is something like Sneak attack in Sneak&Show.

[PirateKing]

What about playing a shallow grave and emrakul package? It is something like Sneak attack in Sneak&Show.

That style of play would be TinFins. Balls to the graveyard with lacking protection but silly speed. It was darling a few months back, but now I've seen less and less of it. I'm sure the local residence of the TinFins thread would know more.

[Deckerator]

Yeah i know that but TinFins can be hated so easily and in a meta with many counters it is a really hard time for this deck. I thought about a reanimator shell with some back up counters and some hand disruption.

[PirateKing]

Yeah i know that but TinFins can be hated so easily and in a meta with many counters it is a really hard time for this deck. I thought about a reanimator shell with some back up counters and some hand disruption.

Isn't that just what reanimator is? Entomb/Reanimate & Force of Will/Thoughtseize?

[ultraviolent2]

Has anybody a video-link to a match of Cucunato at SCGO Series Cincinnati?

[PirateKing]

Has anybody a video-link to a match of Cucunato at SCGO Series Cincinnati?

Round 7 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gONS_ZF3GZg
Quarterfinals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbJDjRJAeIE
Semifinals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UenLrwVVBZc

Still having trouble understanding the line of play with his final Thoughtseize on Nimble Mongoose. He's too talented to not have had a plan with that choice, but I can't see it and either way it didn't pan out.

[chrisdiedforyou]

Round 7 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gONS_ZF3GZg
Quarterfinals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbJDjRJAeIE
Semifinals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UenLrwVVBZc

Still having trouble understanding the line of play with his final Thoughtseize on Nimble Mongoose. He's too talented to not have had a plan with that choice, but I can't see it and either way it didn't pan out.

Fatigue had set in and he told me missed the delver due to the first time he played Craig that day he didn't have checklist. Rob has been really hard on himself for his game play in that last match.

[PirateKing]

Fatigue had set in and he told me missed the delver due to the first time he played Craig that day he didn't have checklist. Rob has been really hard on himself for his game play in that last match.

When he recorded the hand, I wonder what he put down for the Delver then. Did he think it was a different card and note that, then made his decision? Did he write Delver then forget? Or did he just miss it all together in his list and his mind?

Either way tough beats, seeing how he deftly handled the same list prior, felt like the game was his to lose.

[chrisdiedforyou]

When he recorded the hand, I wonder what he put down for the Delver then. Did he think it was a different card and note that, then made his decision? Did he write Delver then forget? Or did he just miss it all together in his list and his mind?

Either way tough beats, seeing how he deftly handled the same list prior, felt like the game was his to lose.

Recorded it as delver but blanked on it while looking at the actual cards.

[PirateKing]

That sucks but is reasonable all the same. Tell him congrats on the finish regardless.

[Force of Beard]

I saw that Cucunato did rather well at the latest SCG Open Series and my eye catches his two Jaces in the SB. Weird, I thought.

Can anyone explain me, in which matchup one would sideboard two Jaces in along with the City of Traitors (I assume!)?

Wouldn't he just be removed in one turn? He can't seriously be a win-con.

/Jacob

Hello, I am Rob Cucunato. I ran the Jaces after seeing Owen T's article http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/owens-a-win-invitational-decks/ The idea is to bring them in when:
A. We plan on taking out some reanimation for counters/duress. Once you have made them discard a few and both have expended FoW's, Jace is a 1 card combo
B. When Show and Tell is a bad way to fight the Graveyard hate they bring in. Against the mirror/sneak and show

I did not get to activate Jace last weekend, but he pitched to FoW and ate 3 or 4 of my opponent's FoWs. I am not sure if I like them over just a straight up answer to the hate (Echoing Truth)

The commentary was really stuck on the Grave Titan. I have read about him on here, as well as my buddies jamming him in Atlanta:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64118
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64127

The Semi-finals were easily the worst MTG I have ever played. Someone else covered my ludicrous Thoughtseize. I am probably not as good as the other feature matches made me out to be, but I am better than that last match.
I would like to thank this forum for my good run these last 6 months or so. For some reason it rejected my first two attempts to make and account, but now I am able to post. The primer on here is really excellent, and the contributions of a lot of you guys have only improved it. Reanimator will bring one of us a trophy! My 3 top 4's shows the power of the deck, the only thing stopping it is the pilot.

[PirateKing]

Thanks for joining Rob! I look forward to hear your thoughts on the deck going forward.

When going 4 S&T and 2 Cities, what ends up being taken out? Do you drop 4 reanimation effects for the 4 cards coming in, or drop 2 lands for the 2 lands?

I've been using Grave Titan for a while now and the point I always see overlooked is that he's the fastest clock in our deck. I had a game 3 start after time was called, only had 3 turns before it was a draw. One to land him, two turns at 10 damage each was the only way I could have won. Opponent had assumed I'd just naturally go for Griselbrand and be too late before I could get lethal. That was early in testing him and I haven't looked back since.

[Panzer]

Hello, I am Rob Cucunato. I ran the Jaces after seeing Owen T's article http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/owens-a-win-invitational-decks/ The idea is to bring them in when:
A. We plan on taking out some reanimation for counters/duress. Once you have made them discard a few and both have expended FoW's, Jace is a 1 card combo
B. When Show and Tell is a bad way to fight the Graveyard hate they bring in. Against the mirror/sneak and show

I did not get to activate Jace last weekend, but he pitched to FoW and ate 3 or 4 of my opponent's FoWs. I am not sure if I like them over just a straight up answer to the hate (Echoing Truth)

The commentary was really stuck on the Grave Titan. I have read about him on here, as well as my buddies jamming him in Atlanta:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64118
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64127

The Semi-finals were easily the worst MTG I have ever played. Someone else covered my ludicrous Thoughtseize. I am probably not as good as the other feature matches made me out to be, but I am better than that last match.
I would like to thank this forum for my good run these last 6 months or so. For some reason it rejected my first two attempts to make and account, but now I am able to post. The primer on here is really excellent, and the contributions of a lot of you guys have only improved it. Reanimator will bring one of us a trophy! My 3 top 4's shows the power of the deck, the only thing stopping it is the pilot.


It takes more than an aggressive beard and a case of the seems good to top 8 4 times in 3 formats within a 6 month span cooc.

[Force of Beard]

When going 4 S&T and 2 Cities, what ends up being taken out? Do you drop 4 reanimation effects for the 4 cards coming in, or drop 2 lands for the 2 lands?


Sometimes you are bringing in Show and Tell to fight potential SB hate or DRS. In those cases I usually trim Careful Study and whichever reanimate spells or fatties are worst (Exhume vs mirror, Reanimate vs aggressive decks, etc). On the draw I have also cut a fetch(es) for the City or Traitors.

Other times you are bringing the SnT package in when their deck is just not fighting on the same axis. If you fear nothing they can put into play, go all in. This tends to be against non-blue aggressive decks. Here you can often cut Thoughtseize, Careful Study, FOW or Reanimates to taste. Legacy is so diverse it is hard to express exactly when each is right. I don't run a bunch of different creatures anymore. It is usually up to pulling Iona when they have too many outs, Elesh Norn when their guys are too big, or Tidespout Tyrant when their permanents are homogenous (an none of them are Karakas).

Sideboarding is such a personal endeavor though, so take this with a grain of salt. You need to keep the deck comfortable. I am not going to lie, sometimes I go deep. REAL DEEP. That is between me and the playmat though.

[Stryfo]

"Sideboarding is such a personal endeavor though, so take this with a grain of salt. You need to keep the deck comfortable. I am not going to lie, sometimes I go deep. REAL DEEP. That is between me and the playmat though."

I'm a huge fan of this sentiment, I often feel the same way, and sometimes you gotta go deep to learn.

Congratulations on your finish.

[Nuke is Good]

I was able to patch together reanimator with the collection of cards I have. I'm on the fence about using it at SCG Somerset or sticking with Jund. I bought the reanimation package and used whatever fatties I had laying around.

Critters
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Empyrial Archangel

Land
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Verdant Catacombs

Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
2 Show and Tell
2 Lotus Petal
2 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
1 Animate Dead

Sideboard
3 Duress
2 Show and Tell
2 Pithing Needle
2 Chain of Vapor
1 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Gilded Drake
1 Flusterstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Grave Titan

I decided to pick a MB Empyrial Archangel due to my playgroup heavily favoring D&T. I'm also thinking of switching Gilded Drake with an Angel of Despair (no ashen rider around) but seeing someone's reaction reading it is hilarious.




Is animate dead usually just put into decklists as more options to reanimate? I thought about cutting it since during play testing my opponents would go after animate dead instead of the fatty.

[Stryfo]

I'm all for the maindeck shroud creature, but I think Inkwell is better than archangel because it is harder to hose completely due to trample. It's also a faster clock against other decks where you might want a shroud creature (miracles).

[PirateKing]

Inkwell really is the better shroud body. Empyrial was good in Zoo's heyday but it benefits a dead meta in modern times.

Well run decks seem to hover on 9-10 reanimation effects, so Animate Dead gets the third string call up. I've found it either my only reanimation effect in the game, which is better than it being something else, or when given the choice, is used on a creature with immediate impact (Elesh Norn, or alternatively Tidespout with follow up spell). Worst case they Abrupt Decay the animate dead which puts you back in need of an effect, of which you now have 8 outs to. And given the likelihood that creature was Griselbrand and without suffering 8 life on the reanimate, drawing 7-14 cards generally nets a pretty healthy followup to the now graveyarded Griselbrand. So I don't really honor the naysayers of Animate Dead. Wins me too many things.

[Force of Beard]

I decided to pick a MB Empyrial Archangel due to my playgroup heavily favoring D&T. I'm also thinking of switching Gilded Drake with an Angel of Despair (no ashen rider around) but seeing someone's reaction reading it is hilarious.

Is animate dead usually just put into decklists as more options to reanimate? I thought about cutting it since during play testing my opponents would go after animate dead instead of the fatty.

My inclination is to agree about Inkwell being the shroud creature of choice. A 3 turn clock is nice. Very seldom are you concerned about the race with Inkwell, where they may be able to piece together a board that kills Angel.

I do prefer to run an interactive creature in the main though. Tidespout Tyrant is a card that can win games that have went way off the rails. I have had to deal with everything from Solitary Confinement, Ensnaring Bridge, multiple Marit Lage tokens, and of course hasty Emrakuls. He doubles as a suitable Karakas resistant body.

I like to have 1 Animate Dead since Sneak and Show/the Mirror are more popular than Abrupt Decay decks where I play. If your Thoughtseize needs to hit a Griselbrand against Sneak and Show, drawing an Animate Dead, rather than an exhume, is a big game. Ditto for giving you game in the mirror. I have been running a 3/1 split on Exhume/Animate for a while now. Since you are maxed out on Exhumes, this is less about the difference between those two and more about an extra reanimation spell over a piece of disuption/cantrip.

[jcsy]

How about Ashen Rider?

Together with Show and Tell, I'm surprised it didn't make main deck? Opposing Show/Tell decks too
Ashen has funky synergy with Tidesprout Tyrant and Show and Tell, bounce and exile effects with Animate Dead

Just throwing ideas

Congratulations on your play and finish, go deep or go home :D

[Esper3k]

Inkwell really is the better shroud body. Empyrial was good in Zoo's heyday but it benefits a dead meta in modern times.

Well run decks seem to hover on 9-10 reanimation effects, so Animate Dead gets the third string call up. I've found it either my only reanimation effect in the game, which is better than it being something else, or when given the choice, is used on a creature with immediate impact (Elesh Norn, or alternatively Tidespout with follow up spell). Worst case they Abrupt Decay the animate dead which puts you back in need of an effect, of which you now have 8 outs to. And given the likelihood that creature was Griselbrand and without suffering 8 life on the reanimate, drawing 7-14 cards generally nets a pretty healthy followup to the now graveyarded Griselbrand. So I don't really honor the naysayers of Animate Dead. Wins me too many things.

I'm a pretty big fan of Animate Dead as well. I was playing an Izzet Charm build for awhile though so I had more discard outlets. Plus, the Beta Animate Deads always look sad if I don't play them :(

[PirateKing]

I'm a pretty big fan of Animate Dead as well. I was playing an Izzet Charm build for awhile though so I had more discard outlets. Plus, the Beta Animate Deads always look sad if I don't play them :(

:laugh: yeah actually my main reason for running a 3/2 split of Exhume and Animate Dead is I have 2 Beta copies myself.

[lordofthepit]

:laugh: yeah actually my main reason for running a 3/2 split of Exhume and Animate Dead is I have 2 Beta copies myself.

You described my situation exactly.

[jcsy]

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28507_Eternal-Europe-Innovation-Spotlight.html

Scroll to the bottom 2 lists, on Reanimator with LED :D

thanks to a friend of mine who linked it to me earlier today.

[Nuke is Good]

How do you folks deal with Imperial Painter? The games I've had really depend on who starts first and G2 if I have enough Pithing Needles to protect against the combo.

I thought about how about an Eldrazi fatty like Emakrul or Kozilek? They can still be cheated into play with Show and Tell and if put into the graveyard via grindstone it causes the reshuffle effect.

[Omega87]

Hey guys,
i am an german legacy player and spotted this deck on some bigger Events beating the hell out of me ;-) i was playing TES.
Now i decided to build the deck and do the same, it looks like this:

Lands: 15
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Scaling Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Island
2 Swamp

Creatures: 7
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
1 Ashen Rider

Card Draw: 11
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

Engine: 17
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
3 Lotus Petal

Disruption: 10
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize


Sideboard: 15
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sigarda / Grave Titan
2 City of Traitors
2 Show and Tell
3 Pithing Needle
2 Spell Pierce
3 Duress


I guess it's pretty standard, but please tell me if something is wrong or out of date.
I didn't play it at a tournament so far, but in July there will be a big eternal event in Prague. So i want to be prepared.
Can anybody tell me, how this deck wins against miracles without abrupt decays? Sorry for this question, but as a former storm trooper, it's very hard to see.
My Meta looks something like this: Show and Tell, Elves, Miracles, BUG, UWR Delver, Death&Taxes, Storm

[ultraviolent2]

Can anybody tell me, why so few reanimator decks run EE in the SB?
Most of them also don't play Chain of Vapor or ET so..
How do they handle a Cage, a RiP or a Leyline if they can't find a Show and Tell in time?

[Hank Zhong]

Can anybody tell me, why so few reanimator decks run EE in the SB?
Most of them also don't play Chain of Vapor or ET so..
How do they handle a Cage, a RiP or a Leyline if they can't find a Show and Tell in time?

The recent lists run JTMS and some times Cliques as a plan B, so in addition to the S&T, we have additional win conditions. We also do have discard and FOW, so those permanents won't always hit play. This is also why bounce is not as necessary, since we can just win via Clique and Jace.

This is not the best example since JTMS never entered play, but Game 2 against Sneak and Show, my opponent has 2 cages, which I had no outs to since I also took out S&T and added 2 cliques and 2 JTMS. I also have 2 needles naming Sneak Attack. Neither of us can do anything and we play draw go for about 10 turns, eventually I hardcast a Griselbrand using petals, city and lands, but in that situation a JTMS would be just as good at locking up the game.

[Force of Beard]

Can anybody tell me, why so few reanimator decks run EE in the SB?
Most of them also don't play Chain of Vapor or ET so..
How do they handle a Cage, a RiP or a Leyline if they can't find a Show and Tell in time?

I go back and forth on Echoing Truth. I guess the times you have it in the board and don't need it are probably good days anyhow, so it is hard to evaluate. I ran 2 ET in both of the opens I did well in last year. I do not think I ever cast one, but you do feel good having at least 1 as an out (I said in my bio in Cincinnati that my one tweak would be having one). Since we are such a good game 1 deck, you can often afford to just make them mulligan to their hate game 2. If they have Cage with Force back-up underneath our hand disruption, good on them. Those sorts of hands usually do not have the pressure to make Show and Tell too slow. JTMS was what I tried in those slots most recently. He can win a game alone, or at least buy time to hardcast a monster.

As for Chain of Vapor: I am firmly in the camp that Chain of Vapor is not the answer I want. You cannot chain of vapor Ensnaring Bridge or really anything else after you play a fatty, since their copy is just insane. You cannot Chain of Vapor Chalice on 1 or 18 Goblin tokens either. Since you cannot EE a Leyline of the Void or Ensnaring Bridge very easily (Lotus Petal giving you a shot for 3 and a pipe dream for 4), I am not that interested in it for those purposes.

[bryanzoll]

Hey all,

I haven't touched Reanimator in quite some time and decided it was time to shake off the old cobwebs and give it a whirl.

This is the list I currently plan on running in a 12post (U/G and mono G) heavy environment, swarm decks (elves & DnT), and 2 show and tell decks. Please let me know if there is anything that should be updated for my meta:



Creature [7]

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Instant [15]

4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will

Sorcery [20]

4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
3 Ponder
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtseize

Enchantment [1]

1 Animate Dead

Artifact [2]

2 Lotus Petal

Land [16]

1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard:

1 Ashen Rider
1 Coffin Purge
1 Inkwell Levithan
2 Massacre
2 Show and Tell
3 Duress
3 Pithing Needle
2 City of Traitors

[Hank Zhong]

Hey guys,
i am an german legacy player and spotted this deck on some bigger Events beating the hell out of me ;-) i was playing TES.
Now i decided to build the deck and do the same, it looks like this:

Lands: 15
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Scaling Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Island
2 Swamp

Creatures: 7
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
1 Ashen Rider

Card Draw: 11
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

Engine: 17
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
3 Lotus Petal

Disruption: 10
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize


Sideboard: 15
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sigarda / Grave Titan
2 City of Traitors
2 Show and Tell
3 Pithing Needle
2 Spell Pierce
3 Duress


I guess it's pretty standard, but please tell me if something is wrong or out of date.
I didn't play it at a tournament so far, but in July there will be a big eternal event in Prague. So i want to be prepared.
Can anybody tell me, how this deck wins against miracles without abrupt decays? Sorry for this question, but as a former storm trooper, it's very hard to see.
My Meta looks something like this: Show and Tell, Elves, Miracles, BUG, UWR Delver, Death&Taxes, Storm

I don't like daze that much. While it sounds good in theory, too many things has to happen for it to be great:

you need to be on the play
they need to play something you care about, e.g. deathrite, counter, discard
they need to run straight into it

In other situations, it's still good, since reanimator is so fast, but if you can't combo by turn 2/3, their values drops a ton. And you will be surprised how many games go past turn 2/3 if you play the deck enough. There will be those all cantrip draws, where you're just spending the first few turns trying to get your combo together, and that point, I'd much rather have a thoughtseize to clear the way.

To sum it up, I think it's a "win more" card, in that if you have the combo early, it's great, but if you have a draw like that, you're favored to win that game anyways.

In their place, I think the 4th ponder is MUST. Post board, they are crucial, since we become this awkward 2 combo deck with both the reanimation and S&T combo. In addition, I would just add another thoughtseize for protection and a petal to speed things up. The petals are also a virtual counter for daze, makes S&T alot faster, while extra copies can be BSed and careful studied away.

In terms of matchups, I don't mind facing any deck in all of legacy except for miracles and death and taxes. Miracles is an absolutely absymal matchup, since they can actually kill or bounce everything you put into play. I've been looking through magic history trying to find a way to beat them without devoting 10 SB cards and I think I've found it:

Enter Aetherling

This is the card you want against miracles. Just leave 1 and ideally 2 blue mana open and the only way you lose is if they race it with angel tokens. it also costs 6, so post board with cities it's very possible to just hard cast it with mana up for protection. As a bonus it's decent against death and taxes, since it dodges both stp and karakas and has virtual vigilance.

I don't think it makes the match up in our favor by any means, but at least this gives us a fighting chance.

Let me know what everyone thinks! I'll be testing it out in the next few weeks.

[Hank Zhong]

Hey guys,

Long time source lurker here, finally decided to join in on the discussions and make some improvements to my favorite archetype of putting big fat monsters into play asap.

16th place @ SCG legacy open somerset this past weekend to an 8-2 record**. The deck is nigh unbeatable when it draws well, but a little too swingy sometimes. I also faced turn 1 deathrite shaman more times than I can count, which made the games much harder than they need to be.

First the list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=67742

Pretty standard list, I basically took robert's list and added in some cliques in the SB, which were pretty good. I did not miss Iona at all, and in at least one game facing down a Liliana, Grave Titan saved my ass where no idea creature could've.


The decks I faced, in order:

Elves

G1: Elesh Norn turn 2 sealed the deal.

G2: opponent had turn 1 deathrite followed by thoughtseize taking my S&T, followed by ooze. Despite the god draw, I still had a chance to rip S&T and win since I had the Norn in hand. I proceed to punt like a pro by forgetting to shuffle with fetchland after I BS and die shortly after.

G3: I mull to 6 on the play to a double thoughtseize, petal, land, land, elesh norn hand. I considered thoughtseizing myself, but would basically lose if my opponent opens with a deathrite and I don't draw anything. I decide to thoughtseize my opponent and he reveals deathrite x2, green sun's zenith, 1 land and some random elves. I'm forced to use both thoughtseizes on the deathrites, using up the petal in the process. then I proceed to draw lands for the next 3 turns while getting slowly pummeled to death by random elves.

the Gate

Don't remember much about this matchup other than Grave Titan saving me from all the sac effects. Vendillion Clique was also good as a sac fodder in G2.

Food Chain!

G1: I was confused by the play of both noble hierarch and deathrite shaman, but it didn't matter, as I proceed to draw lands for 3 turns while a vendillion clique kills me in 3 swings. I assume he is some weird BUG midrange deck.

G2: I go for the show and tell combo on turn 2 with FOW backup thinking I've sealed the deal only for him to let the S&T resolve and he puts in Tidesprout Tyrant while I get Griselbrand into play. I draw 7 with Griselbrand before it gets bounced and was able to find an entomb and exhume for my own Tyrant to bounce his. But I made the fatal mistake of casting thoughtseize instead of just another entomb to do so, which puts me at 2 life. This allows my opponent to topdeck and play a deathrite, which i have to FOW and go down to 1. Then my opponent topdeck a manipulate fate, which in combination with the food chain in play, gives him 3 griffins. I can't find a way to put another Griselbrand into play and die.

U/R Delver

Don't remember much about this one other than, I got the combo plus one protection spell in both games by turn 2, and he only had 1 counterspell each game.

Sneak and Show

G1: I get to reanimate Griselbrand before he gets anything going.

G2: I side out the 2 show and tells, and some careful studies and reanimation spells and bring in the cliques and jaces, expecting a long drawn out affair. And as expected, he gets 2 cages into play and I have 2 needles on sneak attack. We play draw go for many turns, until I get to 8 mana and just hard cast griselbrand for the win.

Dredge
G1: Turn 2 reanimate Elesh norn FTW

G2: Turn 2 reanimate Elesh norn again, I'm so good at magic

Jund
G1: I keep a slow hand that gets thoughtseized, while my opponent has a turn 1 deathrite that was ready the whole time. There was only one turn where he did not have mana open. I did manage to show and tell Grisel into play at a low life, but my opponent had the liliana.

G2: I keep another slow hand, and my opponent has turn 1 deathrite again. He keeps mana open which slows him down a ton. I eventually show and tell into Grisel, draw 14 cards to find a needle and name liliana, which I believe was his only out.

G3: My opponent has turn 1 deathrite yet again, but I have show and tell and elesh norn, which wipes his board. He proceeds to cast toxic deluge, killing the norn. he get's liliana into play the turn before I get a Griselbrand into play, draw a bunch of cards and casts 2 petals and play a land. On his draw step, I clique him to see nothing, and Griselbrand gets there.

Elves

G1: Turn 2 reanimate Elesh Norn yet again

G2: Turn 4 Elesh Norn off show and tell after casting 4 or 5 cantrips in a row the turn before my opponent can kill me.


I think reanimator is favored or even in every single one of those matchups, but a couple of punts on my end against elves round 1, unfamiliarity with the food chain list in round 3, in combination with drawing very poorly in a few of those games cost me the matches.

In summary, I had a lot of fun killing people on turn 2, but there were games that were frustrating because my deck would not cooperate. This is the first big tournament I've been to in years and the first time playing reanimator in a major event, so I'm sure there's room for improvement.


It's a good choice for a big tournament, since it's a combo deck that beats all other combo decks and has fairly even matchups against all the U/x/x delver variants. The only bad matchup is miracles, which just destroys me every time. To solve this matchup, I'm going to test aetherling main or side and see how that works out.

Thanks for reading! Thoughts and feedback are welcomed!


**One of my opponents was a no show, and another got DQ'ed for attempted collusion.

[Nuke is Good]

Hey guys,

First the list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=67742

Pretty standard list, I basically took robert's list and added in some cliques in the SB, which were pretty good. I did not miss Iona at all, and in at least one game facing down a Liliana, Grave Titan saved my ass where no idea creature could've.



I also notice the lack of a shroud creature. For me the shroud creature was always my go-to creature on Game 2-3 to any deck packing Karakas/STP. I like reanimator a lot and it's probably going to be my deck of choice in a combo heavy meta since Jund is so bad in combo. Congrats on your performance.

I need to adjust my decklist due to my poor performance with it on Saturday.

[PirateKing]

Can anybody tell me, why so few reanimator decks run EE in the SB?
Most of them also don't play Chain of Vapor or ET so..
How do they handle a Cage, a RiP or a Leyline if they can't find a Show and Tell in time?

I have a copy of Echoing Truth and Ratchet Bomb for the various permanent based hate brought in. I also have two copies of Massacre when TNN was making waves in the Patriot and D&T was everywhere, but now I'm not encountering opposing white as much, just BUG for days, so I might drop that to one and up the count of ET or RB to two.

Also I can understand the lack of Iona, she's grown weaker every day since her printing, but the lack of Inkwell I can't accept. Never leave home without it.

[Hank Zhong]

I have a copy of Echoing Truth and Ratchet Bomb for the various permanent based hate brought in. I also have two copies of Massacre when TNN was making waves in the Patriot and D&T was everywhere, but now I'm not encountering opposing white as much, just BUG for days, so I might drop that to one and up the count of ET or RB to two.

Also I can understand the lack of Iona, she's grown weaker every day since her printing, but the lack of Inkwell I can't accept. Never leave home without it.

I use to think Inkwell is very important as well, but there were just too many games against decks with stoneforge mystic where i would get the inkwell and they would have a batterskull and we would just stare at each other, since if i attack, I'm only trading 3 damage to their 5. Against miracles, inkwell gets terminused like everything else, that's why aetherling might be good, since it solves both of those issues, though you need to have mana to make good use of it.

[PirateKing]

I use to think Inkwell is very important as well, but there were just too many games against decks with stoneforge mystic where i would get the inkwell and they would have a batterskull and we would just stare at each other, since if i attack, I'm only trading 3 damage to their 5. Against miracles, inkwell gets terminused like everything else, that's why aetherling might be good, since it solves both of those issues, though you need to have mana to make good use of it.

Well mine sits in the side, and I wouldn't bring it in against Stoneforge, the main suite of creatures fights that well enough on their own. On Miracles I guess you have an edge there, but against D&T Inkwell is the all star. Also been hitting a patch of Maverick lately that is a pain, also shines there as well.

[th3 w1z4rd]

Miracles is an absolutely absymal matchup, since they can actually kill or bounce everything you put into play. I've been looking through magic history trying to find a way to beat them without devoting 10 SB cards and I think I've found it:

Enter Aetherling

This is the card you want against miracles. Just leave 1 and ideally 2 blue mana open and the only way you lose is if they race it with angel tokens. it also costs 6, so post board with cities it's very possible to just hard cast it with mana up for protection. As a bonus it's decent against death and taxes, since it dodges both stp and karakas and has virtual vigilance.

I don't think it makes the match up in our favor by any means, but at least this gives us a fighting chance.

Let me know what everyone thinks! I'll be testing it out in the next few weeks.

How does Aetherling do against Counterbalance with Terminus floating on top? :D

[Rood]

Anybody tried Sire of Insanity in the SB? I currently like it since I play a much faster list then most people here. It seems really strong against Karakas-themed decks since you generally just don't care about it. And obviously the effect is really powerful.

[Omega87]

Hey,
went 4:2 on Saturday at my local store. 34 players and i did 6th place, won a playset of deathrite shamans :-)
This Deck is really awesome and incredibly powerful. I lost against MUD and DnT.
Massacre is not too strong in my opinion, i will try dread of night instead. It solves many problems for a longer time than massacre does. Iona and Elesh Norn are still big enough to win then.
Short summary:
Round 1 vs UG Madness: 2:1
Round 2 vs Elves: 2:0
Round 3 vs DnT: 1:2
Round 4 vs MUD: 0:2
Round 5 vs Jund: 2:0
Round 6 vs Miracles: 2:0
I absolutely had no chance against MUD. Any strategies for this matchup?

[cogitoergosum]

Hey,
went 4:2 on Saturday at my local store. 34 players and i did 6th place, won a playset of deathrite shamans :-)
This Deck is really awesome and incredibly powerful. I lost against MUD and DnT.
Massacre is not too strong in my opinion, i will try dread of night instead. It solves many problems for a longer time than massacre does. Iona and Elesh Norn are still big enough to win then.
Short summary:
Round 1 vs UG Madness: 2:1
Round 2 vs Elves: 2:0
Round 3 vs DnT: 1:2
Round 4 vs MUD: 0:2
Round 5 vs Jund: 2:0
Round 6 vs Miracles: 2:0
I absolutely had no chance against MUD. Any strategies for this matchup?

If you are expecting MUD, I'd use that 3cc blue card that bounces all artifacts-its name is eluding me.

[Hank Zhong]

How does Aetherling do against Counterbalance with Terminus floating on top? :D

if you don't have a threat in play by the time they have top/CB assembled, just scoop. Of course, that's besides the fact that hardcasting is plan B anyways =)

[Hank Zhong]

Hey,
went 4:2 on Saturday at my local store. 34 players and i did 6th place, won a playset of deathrite shamans :-)
This Deck is really awesome and incredibly powerful. I lost against MUD and DnT.
Massacre is not too strong in my opinion, i will try dread of night instead. It solves many problems for a longer time than massacre does. Iona and Elesh Norn are still big enough to win then.
Short summary:
Round 1 vs UG Madness: 2:1
Round 2 vs Elves: 2:0
Round 3 vs DnT: 1:2
Round 4 vs MUD: 0:2
Round 5 vs Jund: 2:0
Round 6 vs Miracles: 2:0
I absolutely had no chance against MUD. Any strategies for this matchup?

Congrats on the finish, always good to see Reanimator beat Miracles!, I'm curious how those 2 games played out and what your SB strategy was for Miracles, as I'm currently something like 0-3 against it in matches.

Regarding MUD, the deck is inconsistent and will lose to itself often. Other times, there will be a lot of 1 threat + all mana hands, which just loses to a FOW on their only threat. Other times, they will have the all threat but no acceleration hand, which is just too slow against reanimator. I would just scrap those two games up to variance. It's also not a popular deck, so you won't face it that often at all. In general, I would play reanimator against non-blue decks all day, unless it's D&T =/.

[Omega87]

Thanks for your congrats, i am very surprised too. Did not expect to beat miracles. But game one was very easy by any means. He lost the dice roll, so i started with USea, study, discard Iona (luckily i had no other creature). He played Tundra and Top. My turn again, and i try to exhume, he forces, me too = Iona in play, he does not find Jace in time to bounce Iona, now that he has no outs (karakas in the side... noob)
He starts game 2 with island go. I go USea, ponder, see crap only and shuffle. Draw show and tell, play petal and Go. He plays a blind counterbalance. I draw city of traitors, now i can show and tell ashen rider into play, exiling CB, he tries to force it (CB reveals a land) but thanks to petal i can just spell pierce his force. Lucky me :-D Few turns later he exiles my rider, but Griselbrand finds its way into play and he scoops after his draw (dead on board).
My sideboard was like the list I posted before, - 1 Duress - Sigarda, for + 2 Masscre. I boarded like that:
+ 2 Spell Pierce
+ 2 Duress
+ 2 Show and Tell
+ 2 City of Traitors
+ 1 Inkwell Leviathan

- 3 Daze
- 1 Griselbrand
- 1 Careful Study
- 1 Ponder
- 1 Exhume
- 1 Island
- 1 Swamp

[kingsey]

I've seen grave titan in some lists.

What games are you siding him in ? Or is he main deck now a days ?

I'm still running

4 Grise brand
1 elesh nor
1 iyona
1 tidespout

with inkwell and ashen rider in sideboard.