[Primer/Deck] Burn

[bigwerdz]

Hahaha is that how this works now? Disagreeing with you is misinforming new players? Both cards have their merit. Exiling 2 cards often isn't enough against dredge or storm. Both cards can fall short against reanimator if they let the effect resolve and entomb again before their exhume resolves. As far as tinfins is concerned I believe it's share of the meta is too small to give much sway in my graveyard hate choices. And as far as the rest of the list goes for anyone that cares I have made changes since that open. I went up to 10 fetches 10 mountains and replaced the pyroblasts with null rods.

[Krimson Viper]

All the decks you mention doesn't need the full gy, just some key cards. Then why not just use Macabre? It can't be duressed, destroyed, countered, it's free and instant. What is the wider range? If you are going to write an article about burn, then please don't misinform newbeginners to play bad cards.
There are multiple ways to build a Burn deck and the only way Burn can be built incorrectly is by adding another color. If you're behind the board, Faerie doesn't work very well against Reanimator or Dredge. You do need to mull to your hate cards against these decks. If you mull to five and there's still no hate card, you're going to need to keep your hand regardless because going any further means you have a higher rate of loss at that point. From this stand point, suggesting Faerie Macabre is suggesting a bad card.

Storm will go off from more than just a couple of cards being exiled from their graveyard, as well. Faerie, Crypt, Relic, Surgical are all answers to graveyard decks and all have separate effects with pros and cons.

As for the article, the only thing that really stuck out to me if you were looking for constructive criticism is the line, "There are no Monastery Swiftspears because, contrary to popular belief, they are bad." You should expand on that instead of just leaving off on a cliffhanger like that.

[I_Hate_Counterspells]

If you are going to write an article about burn, then please don't misinform new beginners to play bad cards.

Ease on up there, cowboy!

Opinions are just that, opinions. You may not agree with those opinions but to use the words "misinform" and "bad" because you disagree with a concept is a tad, um, coarse. We're not talking hard facts about the economy here... we're simply spouting sh*t about a silly card game. But then again, if you can prove to me that Tormod's Crypt is a bad card, then I'm with you all the way ;-)

[LOLWut]

There are multiple ways to build a Burn deck and the only way Burn can be built incorrectly is by adding another color.

Not since the Elf Shaman, IMO.

[echofish]

Hahaha is that how this works now? Disagreeing with you is misinforming new players? Both cards have their merit. Exiling 2 cards often isn't enough against dredge or storm. Both cards can fall short against reanimator if they let the effect resolve and entomb again before their exhume resolves. As far as tinfins is concerned I believe it's share of the meta is too small to give much sway in my graveyard hate choices. And as far as the rest of the list goes for anyone that cares I have made changes since that open. I went up to 10 fetches 10 mountains and replaced the pyroblasts with null rods.

As you said yourself "I've found that typically all I need to do is purge the yard once and can win before they rebuild." This is the key. Usually exiling that one griselbrand gives you enough time. Also against dredge, you don't need to exile the whole gy. Removing some bridges, Ichorids, Dread Return or grave trolls usually gives you enough time to finish the job.


There are multiple ways to build a Burn deck and the only way Burn can be built incorrectly is by adding another color. If you're behind the board, Faerie doesn't work very well against Reanimator or Dredge. You do need to mull to your hate cards against these decks. If you mull to five and there's still no hate card, you're going to need to keep your hand regardless because going any further means you have a higher rate of loss at that point. From this stand point, suggesting Faerie Macabre is suggesting a bad card.

Storm will go off from more than just a couple of cards being exiled from their graveyard, as well. Faerie, Crypt, Relic, Surgical are all answers to graveyard decks and all have separate effects with pros and cons.

If you are behind the board vs Reaminator? Like when you are staring at a griselbrand? Then Crypt will save you? How can mulling to 5 and don't finding any gy hate suggest that suggestion Faerie is a bad suggestion? Are you having games vs Reanimator where they have 10 fatties in gy and waiting to topdeck a reanimate spell?

You are rarely heavily behind vs dredge. It's a race, but yeah here crypt does a better job, but Faerie usually gives you enough time to finish the job if you remove the key cards. Same vs Storm. There are key cards to remove. If you think you need to remove their whole gy, then you obviously have not played vs Storm, or just not payed attention. And besides, Pillar effects is better in that matchup, because they can go off fine without the gy. I bring in 2 Pyrostatic Pillar to get 6 "eidolons". They will most def name Eidolon with Therapy and then I can play Pillar for the win.

[bigwerdz]

@krimsonviper
I appreciate the criticism. I didn't go in detail about too many of the cards on the list because that isn't what I wanted to write about. Originally I didn't even have a list in the article lol. I've never done anything like this before so I'm happy with how it turned out. Just wanted to say how using the stereotypes people have of burn players can be an advantage.

[Krimson Viper]

Not since the Elf Shaman, IMO.
I've heard this before, but you can look at DRS and say he's a replacement for Grim. Grim doesn't allow you to have him removed and then get Wastelanded and now you have no lands or stuck on one for an absurd amount of time. Burn wants to play with two lands all the time until you find Vortex. Why would you want DRS any way? To get passed a Leyline? Not a lot of decks run that card and the decks that do won't let you play magic or is a fast combo deck and you'll die before you finish them. Accelerate your game plan with a turn two Vortex? That's awesome, but you only run two or three of those. Nine damage on turn two is good too, but how many times have you lost before you get to live that dream?


As you said yourself "I've found that typically all I need to do is purge the yard once and can win before they rebuild." This is the key. Usually exiling that one griselbrand gives you enough time. Also against dredge, you don't need to exile the whole gy. Removing some bridges, Ichorids, Dread Return or grave trolls usually gives you enough time to finish the job.



If you are behind the board vs Reaminator? Like when you are staring at a griselbrand? Then Crypt will save you? How can mulling to 5 and don't finding any gy hate suggest that suggestion Faerie is a bad suggestion? Are you having games vs Reanimator where they have 10 fatties in gy and waiting to topdeck a reanimate spell?

You are rarely heavily behind vs dredge. It's a race, but yeah here crypt does a better job, but Faerie usually gives you enough time to finish the job if you remove the key cards. Same vs Storm. There are key cards to remove. If you think you need to remove their whole gy, then you obviously have not played vs Storm, or just not payed attention. And besides, Pillar effects is better in that matchup, because they can go off fine without the gy. I bring in 2 Pyrostatic Pillar to get 6 "eidolons". They will most def name Eidolon with Therapy and then I can play Pillar for the win.
I have actually been in games where there are three or more fatties in the grave waiting to find a reanimation spell after a Careful Study or two. Have you not been in games where both decks are stalling and their top deck is better than yours, but you have an exile entire grave card in play?

As for my last sentence in that paragraph, that was a sum of everything I had said within that paragraph. It can't be used to be singled out like that and expect it to make a real argument, neither for or against.

Sure you can put Pyrostatic Pillar in because that how you have built your board for your meta. What about everyone else's meta? How about when the Storm play Duresses you turn one, takes Pillar and Cabal's away your Eidolon next turn? The best place for either of those spells is at the top of your deck until you can play it and even then it can be bounced before the combo player goes off.


@krimsonviper
I appreciate the criticism. I didn't go in detail about too many of the cards on the list because that isn't what I wanted to write about. Originally I didn't even have a list in the article lol. I've never done anything like this before so I'm happy with how it turned out. Just wanted to say how using the stereotypes people have of burn players can be an advantage.
You're welcome.

[sirlaser]

There are multiple ways to build a Burn deck and the only way Burn can be built incorrectly is by adding another color.

What about pre-Cruise ban in Legacy? Throw in 1 Volcanic Island and 3 Treasure Cruise? (Just curious about what people generally think; I understand this post doesn't help the current or future development of Burn)

[LOLWut]

I've heard this before, but you can look at DRS and say he's a replacement for Grim. Grim doesn't allow you to have him removed and then get Wastelanded and now you have no lands or stuck on one for an absurd amount of time. Burn wants to play with two lands all the time until you find Vortex. Why would you want DRS any way? To get passed a Leyline? Not a lot of decks run that card and the decks that do won't let you play magic or is a fast combo deck and you'll die before you finish them. Accelerate your game plan with a turn two Vortex? That's awesome, but you only run two or three of those. Nine damage on turn two is good too, but how many times have you lost before you get to live that dream?

Have you tested the Deathrite splash? I know a number of people who've tested against and with it in Burn, and all who actually put in games think it's superior to Lavamancer. It really is perfect for the deck. DRS contributing to mana issues are rarely an issue when played correctly, so the only real downside is not hitting creatures, which is mitigated by the fact that almost the rest of the deck does. Apart from the few decks that are elite at mana denial like D&T, they should usually be saving those Wastelands for your Price of Progress anyway. Getting the same 2 damage a turn (which is what Lavamancer is for at its core. Its versatility can't be understated, and burning creatures is a genuine plus, but if the main issue was creatures, people might just play a set of Searing Bloods alongside that set of Searing Blazes), while accelerating, eating Griselbrands, PiF fuel and all kinds of things, and all the rest (incl. a bunch of minor things like evading Energy Field/Leyline and gaining life that add up to a lot) makes me say that it's actually Lavamancer that can't be a replacement for DRS. It's not a slight on Lavamancer, which is a fine choice, but the DRS splash is very, very good.

[Krimson Viper]

Have you tested the Deathrite splash? I know a number of people who've tested against and with it in Burn, and all who actually put in games think it's superior to Lavamancer. It really is perfect for the deck. DRS contributing to mana issues are rarely an issue when played correctly, so the only real downside is not hitting creatures, which is mitigated by the fact that almost the rest of the deck does. Apart from the few decks that are elite at mana denial like D&T, they should usually be saving those Wastelands for your Price of Progress anyway. Getting the same 2 damage a turn (which is what Lavamancer is for at its core. Its versatility can't be understated, and burning creatures is a genuine plus, but if the main issue was creatures, people might just play a set of Searing Bloods alongside that set of Searing Blazes), while accelerating, eating Griselbrands, PiF fuel and all kinds of things, and all the rest (incl. a bunch of minor things like evading Energy Field/Leyline and gaining life that add up to a lot) makes me say that it's actually Lavamancer that can't be a replacement for DRS. It's not a slight on Lavamancer, which is a fine choice, but the DRS splash is very, very good.
I tried to think of a way to respond without sounding like a dick.

I'll let you and others test this until there's a winning list with it in a forty man or more tournament.


What about pre-Cruise ban in Legacy? Throw in 1 Volcanic Island and 3 Treasure Cruise? (Just curious about what people generally think; I understand this post doesn't help the current or future development of Burn)
Just before its ban I was thinking about running TC and always thought I should run it. It started to branch into UR Delver though. Getting Wasted was always a concern with running a Burn splash. During TC, you didn't really have to worry about it because Waste wasn't really around.

[Tokugawa]

Black splash, with DRS and Bump in the Night, was once a dominating build of Burn!:tongue:

However, that was in Modern, when DRS was legal.

That does not belong to legacy.

[Brentane]

What is better against the current meta? Burn or UR Delver? Why?

[Nina]

Thanks to bigwerds for the part of the article, where you explain what kind of niche the burn deck exploits.
Pretty much sums up the way I was behaving with and understanding the burn deck intuitively.
(That moment when you sling two fireblasts in response to a top activation when the miracle player feels totally save and suddenly feels the urgent need to flip the table...)

Also thanks to both Crimson Viper and bigwerds for the great weighting on the Crypt vs Marcabre topic.

Both illustrate a great understandig of the game and its great to have them written down.

Could feline maybe link them in the opening post?

edit: ofc treasure cruise was banned because splashing it into almost anything (including burn) could have been considered reasonable.

[Chatto]

Two Burn decks made it top20 at SCG Syracuse, did anyone noticed? Nicholas Herbs placed 14th (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82336) with Monastery Swiftspear and Jacob Shannon placed 7th (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82334) with a Classic List.

[Lyle Hopkins]

Two Burn decks made it top20 at SCG Syracuse, did anyone noticed? Nicholas Herbs placed 14th (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82336) with Monastery Swiftspear and Jacob Shannon placed 7th (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82334) with a Classic List.

It's nice to see the deck doing well.

I just came across an interesting list from a Grand Prix Kyōto Trial (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpkyo15/grand-prix-trial-decklists-2015-04-17). The single copy of Sensei's Divining Top interests me. Has anyone tested this substantially?

[LOLWut]

I'll let you and others test this until there's a winning list with it in a forty man or more tournament.

How about a 121-person tournament (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13245&iddeck=97215)?

[Krimson Viper]

Sure, that's why I said "or more." Note that that deck list is from early last year, before Eidolon, and it doesn't look like there's been any success since.

[Mystical_Jackass]

That Deathburn list seemed interesting, and I'd thought about something similar for a long time. I like the idea of Duress & Toxic Deluge as SB options.

I was wondering if anyone's ever tried out Blightning? You get a lot of value in one card, especially fighting through blue or combo.

[LOLWut]

Sure, that's why I said "or more." Note that that deck list is from early last year, before Eidolon, and it doesn't look like there's been any success since.

5 and 6 rounders, but top 8s in March of 2015 and July of 2014, with Eidolon and Deathrite:

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16494&iddeck=123432
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14232&iddeck=104883

[Krimson Viper]

Thirty four and twenty eight man tournaments. I chose forty not because of rounds, but because of a larger variety of player skill and archetypes. Larger tournaments forces you to cater to what's more popular and sideboard choices are effected further. You can have silver bullets specifically at your store for certain people and their decks. You can not do so at bigger venues.

[LOLWut]

Thirty four and twenty eight man tournaments. I chose forty not because of rounds, but because of a larger variety of player skill and archetypes. Larger tournaments forces you to cater to what's more popular and sideboard choices are effected further. You can have silver bullets specifically at your store for certain people and their decks. You can not do so at bigger venues.

I'm aware. Which is where that 121-person tournament comes in. I have a feeling that if another list topped a 100-plus-person tournament, you'd say that it didn't mean anything because it only happened twice. Give the variant a break; there are probably 3 people in the world bringing it to tournaments. It has gotten results, and there is sound reasoning behind the choices. You have to look at both analysis and results to truly evaluate a new idea.

[Chatto]

Well, I must say: the lists seems to be performing quiet well. I'm going to try it when I got the time.

[bigwerdz]

@LOLWut
If you think the deathrite deck is good play it. No one is twisting your arm to not test it. The performances you've posted are either small tourneys or dated but if you can go do well at a large tournament with it awesome. In the mean time mono-red is putting up numbers and I'd imagine will continue to do so.

[ThiefSlayer]

Hey guys, I'm from the same state here in Brazil that Marcos Morelli, the guy who played the 2 top8 with jund burn, and I also play the same championship as him.

He made a deck tech video about it along with a MTG youtube channel, but it's in portuguese.

The things he said that were the difference about the usual mono-red build was that he was much better at handling combo decks, and he also was able to pass through leyline of sanctity, energy field, etc, with non-targeting life loss from deathrite shaman and tyrant's choise. He stated that aggro decks are usually ok to pretty good matches for burn already, so he made that a little weaker (getting more susceptible to wasteland and mana-screw) to benefit the combo matches.

I'm not saying do it or not, actually I wasn't even going to post, but I saw that list and thought that was really a huge coincidence.

Here's the link to Marcos Morelli's deck tech about Jund Burn, in portuguese:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1WUsRVeqIM

[Krimson Viper]

I'm aware. Which is where that 121-person tournament comes in. I have a feeling that if another list topped a 100-plus-person tournament, you'd say that it didn't mean anything because it only happened twice. Give the variant a break; there are probably 3 people in the world bringing it to tournaments. It has gotten results, and there is sound reasoning behind the choices. You have to look at both analysis and results to truly evaluate a new idea.
I am giving the deck a break, but I want results before I put money into tournament tickets. I'm sure there are more than two to three people playing the deck in the entire world. In fact, I'm sure that TCDecks.net doesn't even list -every- tournament that happens, close to it though. I would be more than happy to eat my words if multicolored Burn decks were to make it because then I get to play with various versions of my favorite deck, but I have neither the time, nor money to play with unconfirmed decks and will let others do that testing for me.
I am very open to ideas. For Pete's sake, I used to pilot The Walking Dead! I'm simply tired of being tier two or worse.


@LOLWut
If you think the deathrite deck is good play it. No one is twisting your arm to not test it. The performances you've posted are either small tourneys or dated but if you can go do well at a large tournament with it awesome. In the mean time mono-red is putting up numbers and I'd imagine will continue to do so.
Also, this.

Hey guys, I'm from the same state here in Brazil that Marcos Morelli, the guy who played the 2 top8 with jund burn, and I also play the same championship as him.

He made a deck tech video about it along with a MTG youtube channel, but it's in portuguese.

The things he said that were the difference about the usual mono-red build was that he was much better at handling combo decks, and he also was able to pass through leyline of sanctity, energy field, etc, with non-targeting life loss from deathrite shaman and tyrant's choise. He stated that aggro decks are usually ok to pretty good matches for burn already, so he made that a little weaker (getting more susceptible to wasteland and mana-screw) to benefit the combo matches.

I'm not saying do it or not, actually I wasn't even going to post, but I saw that list and thought that was really a huge coincidence.

Here's the link to Marcos Morelli's deck tech about Jund Burn, in portuguese:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1WUsRVeqIM
This is awesome. By any chance, does your friend speak English like yourself, or no? I'm sure people here would like to ask questions.

[sirlaser]

How can we deal with Kor Firewalker (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194708)/Circle of Protection: Red (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=243)?

[LeoCop 90]

We don't worry about cards like those because legacy is not a format where people walk into a tournament with burn in mind. This is also why burn can never be tier1, because it is too easy to beat with hate cards. The problem was in the cruise era when people played firewalker against u/r delver and we got hit with splash damage... but now who plays him ? My answer is if people start playing circle of protection or kor firewalker just play another deck.... there are some answers like pyrite spellbomb to kill firewalker, skullcrack after he blocked to remove damage prevention, sulfuric vortex prevents lifegain, pithing needle for circle of protection .... but overall they are too difficult to beat and force you to put narrow/suboptimal cards in your deck.

[sirlaser]

We don't worry about cards like those because legacy is not a format where people walk into a tournament with burn in mind.

Well, I play exclusively MODO (paper is too expensive for me), so on that vein any advice would be appreciated.

[LeoCop 90]

Well, in general i think skullcrack is a decent maindeckable card against both firewalker (hope they block one of your creatures with him, then cast skullcrack and he will die because the damage dealt to him can't be prevented by his protection from red) and circle of protection (just hold spells in hand until you have a big turn when you cast skullcrack first and then burn him to death).
Other, more narrow answers could be pyrite spellbomb or cursed scroll as ways to kill firewalker that also can go to your opponent's face, and pithing needle against circle. Also flaring pain does a decent repeatable skullcrack effect, but unfortunately it deals no damage. You can also try jamming 4 leylines of punishment in your board.
As i said though, most of these answers are suboptimal cards and i would not feel comfortable knowing that i have to play against firewalker or circle of protection often.

[Krimson Viper]

Firewalker isn't as scary in Legacy as compared to Modern because we have Sulfuric Vortex that stops life gain. Circle is another issue however. Depending on your meta and how large it is, take a look at Pithing Needle. It stops various other cards like Sneak Attack, Jace, SFM, Batterskull, Jitte, and a myriad of other great cards against us.

As for piloting the deck, against Miracles, don't suspend your Rift Bolts and don't send Shusher in for an attack unless you know it's safe. Aggressively mull against combo decks for your hate pieces. Think your turns through and try and think of steps two or more turns ahead. Burn is a good deck to pick up and get some wins in, but it's a hard deck to master. Siding in more than three cards that deal no damage or take you away from your main objective is probably a bad idea.

And always remember, Burn wins off of redundancy, don't be surprised if it doesn't "get you there" in some games. Primer really needs an update. I go here and http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro/488613-burn There have been some really choice information in that thread the last five pages or so.

[feline]

Thanks to bigwerds for the part of the article, where you explain what kind of niche the burn deck exploits.
Pretty much sums up the way I was behaving with and understanding the burn deck intuitively.
(That moment when you sling two fireblasts in response to a top activation when the miracle player feels totally save and suddenly feels the urgent need to flip the table...)

Also thanks to both Crimson Viper and bigwerds for the great weighting on the Crypt vs Marcabre topic.

Both illustrate a great understandig of the game and its great to have them written down.

Could feline maybe link them in the opening post?

edit: ofc treasure cruise was banned because splashing it into almost anything (including burn) could have been considered reasonable.

Tell me what to link and I can add it ^.^

[Nina]

Tell me what to link and I can add it ^.^

So the great talk about which gravehate to choose and why starts here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25772-Primer-Deck-Burn&p=873006&viewfull=1#post873006) and goes on till my last post.
Not sure if that's worth a link but those two pages are the best way (imho) to get an opinion yourself.
Credits would go to all the posters dicussing this.

2nd. (www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25772-Primer-Deck-Burn&p=873006&viewfull=1#post873006) The article discussing burn, and the niche it exploits in the meta.

The statement that Swiftspear is just wrong, because he says so, might not be useful, but the rest is.

edit: While we're at it. You could link the "Manaless Dredge or Burn?" (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25772-Primer-Deck-Burn&p=873006&viewfull=1#post873006) thread, to give people a source for good reasoning on why burn is a good deck to get into legacy on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As we are at a point where the most has been said about the spells, I'd like to discuss a minor topic.
What fetchlands should be used?

I know it makes minor to no difference gameplaywise for yourself (no if you run 0 non-mountains, and minor if you run any non-basic lands),
but your opponent will play differently (or at least think more) if you open with *Wooded Foothills or Scalding Tarn - Go!*
or with *Bloodstained Mire - fetch a Mountain - Lava Spike - Go!*.
Having a fetchland open game one, that suggest you could be "any deck", meaning you could have Stifle (cracking foothills for a blue dual - gotcha!)or Daze or Spell Pierce or FoW or be ANT etc., gives you an informational advantage as the opponent doesn't know what you are on.
It's the same minor advantage you have when you actually notice what kind of cards goblin guide reveals, that you deny your opponent in that case.

So basically what fetchlands make it the least obvious that we are on burn?

Probably Wooded Foothills and Scalding Tarn. Right? (please discuss.)

Or should we diversify in 2-2-2-2 manner to avoid Phyrexian Revoker and Surgical Extraction Gravehate splash damage?

(I'd like to leave out any financial discussion about the different price of the lands, as it is very likely that the enemy color Fetchlands will be reprinted with the Holofoil stamp soon, probably even in BfZ.)

Also for somebody who invests in fetchlands it makes sense to get the red ones used in the most decks, cause they could use them in more decks. Ha.

[Nina]

So I did decide to make a doublepost for this as it is a new topic. Whatever.

How the hell are we supposed to act against Standstill? (I won the match 2-1 against UW Landstill, but I am still not sure about my strategy there)

(read up on standsill here) (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?9280-Deck-UW%28x%29-Landstill&p=787983&viewfull=1#post787983)

Basically, we need to cast spells to kill our opponent. Thats a fact.
And Standstill aims to cast Standstill when we are in need of doing so (read: when we do not have a creature or vortex in play).
They will be able to accomplish this as they have many answers in their deck.
So we will have to give them their Recall (Apart from the times where we can REB/Pyroblast that card).
My thinking was that freezing when they resolved Standstill is wrong, because waiting is good for them (big mana and time gives access to Supreme Verict, JTMS, Mishra's Factory etc).
Is that true?

So what I did I always deliberatly triggered their Standstill by playing a creature (best case Eidolon), hoping their CA wouldn't allow them to counter it and start over.
Is that the best way of doing it?

The game I lost and the games I won my opponent drew 3,6 or 9 cards and that just feels bad. That's why I am asking.

[bigwerdz]

@Nina
I think your statement on fetchlands is correct. Yes foothills or tarns probably gives your opponents the most range of decks to consider when thinking "what deck is my opponent on?". It also most likely doesn't matter. 9.5 times out of 10 I am cracking a fetch turn 1 to do something at sorcery speed. The most likely time I am not would be if i know my opponent is on elves and I'm holding bolt for their turn 1 accelerant. A split on fetches may help on against random gy hate but I've never experienced that happening.
My experience against standstill is typically just pop the standstill. I've noticed the problem with that deck is it ofter just draws fluff. Giving them time to develop is exactly what they want. My plan is to just keep presenting threats, eidolon/vortex being fantastic, and make them hope to draw well off the standstill.

Yesterday I won a ~45 player 1k in my area. The room was very good for burn as there was alot of favorable match ups. I lost to death and taxes in the first round, then beat burn x2, grixis delver, lands x2, jund, rug delver, and elves not in that order. Both burn players were on a switspear builds so it made their play more predictable allowing me to feel safer going in for the kill when that time came. The other lists did do decent as I beat one player for my win and in the other was just outside of top 8 too. I still think burn is favorable in the current meta just gotta dodge the Omnitell in the room as it grows in popularity.

[Krimson Viper]

Congrats to Bigwerdz and thank you Nina for both of your posts. Asking some solid questions that have either not been addressed before, or hasn't been in awhile.

I watched SouthFloridaMagic's stream today and Danny Savage, I believe, would have taken that tournament down. I'm not sure of the amount of players, but it was at least five rounds. I didn't stare at his sideboard long enough to grab it, but his main deck is a lot like mine so that was easy to remember. He ended up splitting with a Miracles players and demolished his opponent in the top four, who was also a Miracles player.

4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
2 Searing Blaze
1 Searing Blood
3 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast

10 Fetches
10 Mountain

[TrevaBlues]

4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
2 Searing Blaze
1 Searing Blood
3 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast

10 Fetches
10 Mountain

I'm preparing to go to SCG Worcester with a list like this. Going to be testing where I want my board to be at, but so far something like this:

3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Searing Blood
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Ensnaring Bridge

Thoughts behind this board build:
I want to be able to easily beat Miracles. I want good game against URx Delver decks and D&T.
I'm not too worried of Dredge or other superfast combo, so I'm leaning to Relic over Tormod's Crypt since I want them for the black delver decks, lands, and tarmogoyf.
I normally have a mix of Pyroblast / Pyrostatic pillar in place of Shushers but I want the extra game against miracles. I think I'll miss pillar.

Any thoughts, opinions?
The other deck I might play is UR delver.
I am an experienced storm player but don't like where it's at in the metagame as everyone is ready to beat it- which makes it a lot of work to do well... :P

[Krimson Viper]

I think you have a really well rounded board for what you're targeting. I think, if anything, you should drop a Blood and add in another Grim. In fact, if you intend of fighting those decks in general, Blaze might be a better choice. Mom activation will stop your Bloods from doing anything. With Blaze, it's two targets. Infect is the same deal.

I have a sneaky suspicion that decks with twenty one lands have better activations with Blaze though. Take that with a grain of salt in your decision.

[TrevaBlues]

I think you have a really well rounded board for what you're targeting. I think, if anything, you should drop a Blood and add in another Grim. In fact, if you intend of fighting those decks in general, Blaze might be a better choice. Mom activation will stop your Bloods from doing anything. With Blaze, it's two targets. Infect is the same deal.

I have a sneaky suspicion that decks with twenty one lands have better activations with Blaze though. Take that with a grain of salt in your decision.

Awesome feedback.

My goal against Mom/infect is just to overload with searing effects and expend burn spells on creatures if needed. Usually works out fine.

I've felt happyish with 20 lands, but am tired of losing because i have to mulligan certain 0/1 land hands. wouldn't mind the 21st land being another fetch.

[bigwerdz]

@TrevaBlues
I like your sideboard plan we have different choice for a few spots but they all answer the same decks. Good luck at the tourney.

Ok so what is everyone's sideboard plan for omni-tell? As of right now I have nothing for it because it is still a really small percent in my local meta. Anyone have any tech for it? I had thought about replacing the bridges with Ashen Riders but a friend on omni-tell said that wasn't great. Who knows might never be enough of a problem to worry about just wanted to see where peoples heads were at with it.
my sideboard atm:
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Searing Blood
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Nullrod
1 Sulfuric Vortex

[datanaga]

@TrevaBlues
I like your sideboard plan we have different choice for a few spots but they all answer the same decks. Good luck at the tourney.

Ok so what is everyone's sideboard plan for omni-tell? As of right now I have nothing for it because it is still a really small percent in my local meta. Anyone have any tech for it? I had thought about replacing the bridges with Ashen Riders but a friend on omni-tell said that wasn't great. Who knows might never be enough of a problem to worry about just wanted to see where peoples heads were at with it.
my sideboard atm:
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Searing Blood
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Nullrod
1 Sulfuric Vortex

My sb plan vs omnitell is:
-4 price of progress
-3 searing blaze
+2 REB
+2 pyroblast
+2 bridge
+1 vortex

[Krimson Viper]

My sideboard plan against any Show and Tell deck is simply take out PoP and bring in Bridge if I decide to use that in my board. That match up is so abismal I simply ignore it and hope to dodge it all day. There's nothing I want to actively do against it besides racing. Side out too much and your deck loses sight of what it wants to do.

[Nina]

My sideboard plan against any Show and Tell deck is simply take out PoP and bring in Bridge if I decide to use that in my board. That match up is so abismal I simply ignore it and hope to dodge it all day. There's nothing I want to actively do against it besides racing. Side out too much and your deck loses sight of what it wants to do.

When running searing effects main, they very much do nothing in helping you achieving the goal of winning first (no targets when targets are needed).
So I'd call it reasonable to side them all out for REBs or Pyroblasts if you have access to them.

Sulfuric Vortex and Ensnaring Bridge I will bring in for the almost dead PoPs.

(btw. I feel like having access to 3 Vortexes in your 75 is the correct number.)

--------------------------------

I have been running a SB package of 2 Pyrostatic Pillars and 1 Mindbreak Trap against "the Storms", when they were present in my meta, would you consider that a good addition to the 4 Eidolons when you expect a lot of Storm?

(I like splitting my hate in x cards that are just good and proactive and 1 that will reactively "get you".
So I usually run 2-3 crypts and 1 Faerie Macabre against the yard, if I do, and the 2-1 split of Pillar and Trap against Storm, if I do.)

[sirlaser]

I have been running a SB package of 2 Pyrostatic Pillars and 1 Mindbreak Trap against "the Storms", when they were present in my meta, would you consider that a good addition to the 4 Eidolons when you expect a lot of Storm?

(I like splitting my hate in x cards that are just good and proactive and 1 that will reactively "get you".
So I usually run 2-3 crypts and 1 Faerie Macabre against the yard, if I do, and the 2-1 split of Pillar and Trap against Storm, if I do.)

This is probably the right thing to do. Smart Storm players will name Eidolon with their Cabal Therapies, so keeping Pillar and Trap in the wings is just more consistent. Resolved Eidolon or Pillar is usually auto-win.

[TrevaBlues]

I have been running a SB package of 2 Pyrostatic Pillars and 1 Mindbreak Trap against "the Storms", when they were present in my meta, would you consider that a good addition to the 4 Eidolons when you expect a lot of Storm?

yeah that'd help a lot. Pyrostatic Pillars are just sweet to have access to anyway. would recommend this plan for omnitell over the REB's /pyroblasts (unless you have space for both).

[Nina]

yeah that'd help a lot. Pyrostatic Pillars are just sweet to have access to anyway. would recommend this plan for omnitell over the REB's /pyroblasts (unless you have space for both).

I already had Pyrostatic Pillars boarded in against Omnitell (in addition to pyroblasts), and they are indeed quiet nice.

-----------------------------------------------

So I thought I might as well share my current decklist.

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

3 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

11 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa

Sideboard:

1 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Pyroblast
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Mindbreak Trap

(I have been running 1 Volcanic Fallout during the Cruise UR Delver days, but now I don't feel like that's worth the slot anymore)
(Flame Rift is notably absent here. I am also not running any in the Sideboard, as I never felt like I have not enough stuff to bring in for the dead cards I need to cut.)

Nitpicking is very welcome, as I want it to be as competitive as possible.

edit:



I watched SouthFloridaMagic's stream today and Danny Savage, I believe, would have taken that tournament down.
...
2 Grim Lavamancer
...

Is there any recording of that available somewhere? (link)

The decision between 2 and 3 Lavamancers is an interesting one, too.
When I expect higher percentages of spell based combo and miracles decks in the meta I probably go down to two, as the pure "Damage to the Face - Effort Ratio" of them is not that high.

[thesivo]

Fine tuning my list for an event on Sunday.

Here's where I am with the main deck:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
6 Mountain

4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex

19 lands only. In Modern Burn I always play 19 lands and it performs well. Why do most legacy lists run 20 lands? 13 fetches and 6 targets only. I want to drop a fetch every turn to feed Grim Lavamancer and keep Searing Blaze landfall trigger live.

This leaves me with one flex slot. What should be played here? Thinking of either Shard Volley or a Sensei's Divining Top.

Sideboard's giving me headaches. Nightmare matchups are Miracles and OmniTell, particularly the latter which I have no idea how to handle apart from playing Ashen Rider, which is useless against Miracles. Here's where I am at now:

3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Searing Blaze
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast

5 REBs is a desperate bid not to be such a dog in the blue matchups. It's just not viable to beat them on speed alone, so there has to be a element of disruption.

I couldn't yet wrap my head around how Pyrostatic Pillar hoses OmniTell - could anyone enlighten me? Is it because they then can't play the Release the Ants plan? I might go with 2 Red Elemental Blast, 1 Pyroblast and 2 Pyrostatic Pillar instead then. I might also cut one Ensnaring Bridge and bring in a lone Vexing Shusher for the Miracles matchup, but I've seen a lot of times where it has eaten a StP right away without doing anything meaningful.

What are you guys and gals feeling is the best way to go right now? Meta will be a complete surprise to me, don't know most of the players which will be there.

[I_Hate_Counterspells]

I couldn't yet wrap my head around how Pyrostatic Pillar hoses OmniTell - could anyone enlighten me?

Well, omni plays Brainstrom, Preordained, Ponder, Probe, Duress, etc. so you hit them with 2 damage every time they cast them, even after they land an omni. Combined with your disruption, it puts them on a faster clock before you burn them out.

[Lormador]

Legacy burn usually plays a little more land because it has some pretty mana-hungry moves: Sulfuric Vortex and Fireblast. Sometimes you need to double Fireblast.

What I've been doing to combat Miracles and Omnitell is to dump a bunch of Vexing Shushers and blast effects into the sideboard. They are very strong together, but you really need them in numbers. 3-4 Shushers and 4-5 blasts.

Even then it's not always enough.

[LeoCop 90]

Miracles shouldn't be a nightmare matchup at all. Yes, we can do little if they have countertop assembled on turn two, otherwise i feel favored in the matchup.

[Krimson Viper]

I already had Pyrostatic Pillars boarded in against Omnitell (in addition to pyroblasts), and they are indeed quiet nice.

-----------------------------------------------

So I thought I might as well share my current decklist.

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

3 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

11 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa

Sideboard:

1 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Pyroblast
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Mindbreak Trap

(I have been running 1 Volcanic Fallout during the Cruise UR Delver days, but now I don't feel like that's worth the slot anymore)
(Flame Rift is notably absent here. I am also not running any in the Sideboard, as I never felt like I have not enough stuff to bring in for the dead cards I need to cut.)

Nitpicking is very welcome, as I want it to be as competitive as possible.

edit:



Is there any recording of that available somewhere? (link)

The decision between 2 and 3 Lavamancers is an interesting one, too.
When I expect higher percentages of spell based combo and miracles decks in the meta I probably go down to two, as the pure "Damage to the Face - Effort Ratio" of them is not that high.
I just now saw this request. They have a backlog of events, but I can't remember which one this happened at.
http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic

[Stevestamopz]

Legacy burn usually plays a little more land because it has some pretty mana-hungry moves: Sulfuric Vortex and Fireblast. Sometimes you need to double Fireblast.

What I've been doing to combat Miracles and Omnitell is to dump a bunch of Vexing Shushers and blast effects into the sideboard. They are very strong together, but you really need them in numbers. 3-4 Shushers and 4-5 blasts.

Even then it's not always enough.

When you're trying to resolve 5-7 burn spells, diluting your deck with red blasts is definitely not the way to go. I can understand arguments for Shusher (even though it's not a guaranteed autowin against miracles), but REB/Pyroblast are wasted sideboard slots and horrific top decks.

[Valtrix]

Vexing Shusher is definitely the card you want to go to if you want to handle Miracles, for two reasons. First, and most importantly, is that it can be useful through a resolved counterbalance and can't be answered by any other countermagic. Second is that it can also get in for damage itself so you have less risk of not drawing enough damage to close out a game fast enough.

[Krimson Viper]

I don't like Chandra from Origins. Too slow and doesn't do anything immediate if it even lands. Might be good in Modern, though. Maybe.

I made it second place on a Saturday six man event beating Miracles, Tin Fins, and losing to Reanimator. I made it to seventh on today's ten man event beating a home brew with Counterbalance Top and D&T, losing to Reanimator and a close match to a Storm deck that uses the grave. I can't remember if it's ANT or TES that uses Past in Flames. I used the same main in both events, but different sides.

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
3 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

11 Fetches
9 Mountain

Saturday
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
1 Flame Rift
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Sulfuric Vortex

Sunday
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Surigical Extraction
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sudden Shock
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Sulfuric Vortex
I have to say that I generally like the extra land. There have been games where I flooded a bit, but both my opponent and myself were close to dying and I top decked everything I needed to win. I've kept one land hands and ran into another land to unlock my deck into blazing fast speeds. I think twenty one might be too much, but I definitely haven't had a problem using Fireblast and Sulfuric Vortex on time. I have been able to play around Daze and Pierce.

I would have won that Storm match up, but I didn't know Grim Tutor dealt three to the caster and I Mindbreak Trap the tutor. He knew about it from a previous Cabal Therapy and I figured he was going to make me discard it so I exiled the it in response to the tutor. I Priced in response as well and had him at three. Live and learn, but read the damn cards! Everything else I feel like I played correctly.

[Kraus]

I run a slightly non-conventional build that I've had some success with.

18 Mountain
2 Lotus Petal

4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Flame Rift

SB:
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sudden Shock
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Sulfuric Vortex

This deck does not have the built-in eventuality of Vortex, nor the control-ish aspects of Lavamancer. It is built to go all-out and count to twenty as fast as possible. The reach with Flame Rift and Fireblast to end the game is incredible. The Petals are there because of the cute interactions with Swiftspear and to make T1 Eidolon a possibility. This build also has a theoretical T2 kill, if these are the top eight cards of your deck:

Mountain
Mountain
Lotus Petal
Swiftspear
Bolt (or Chain, or Spike)
Bolt (or Chain, or Spike)
Bolt (or Chain, or Spike)
Fireblast

(Note that any of these cards can be the eighth card, except Swiftspear, who must be in the top seven for this to work.)

I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts.

[sunlith42]

@Kraus the addition of lotus petal seems interesting to me. Why only 2 though? Have you tested 4 lotus petal, it would make it a more reliable to see in your opening hand.

[Chatto]

I run a slightly non-conventional build that I've had some success with.

18 Mountain
2 Lotus Petal

4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Flame Rift

SB:
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sudden Shock
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Sulfuric Vortex

(...)

Hello and welcome!

Interesting build, but this has been tried before (to some extend). A couple of questions:

1. Can you tell something about various MU's? For instance, various DTB.

2. How many times has your theoretical T2-kill occured?

3. Swiftspear has been tested, included by me, and also been dropped. You really need to play your burn to get value out of her. Apparently, you feel more at ease with this playstyle. Did you ever run in to problems where you a) didn't want to play burn or b) had nothing to play at all?

4. In my opinion Lotus Petal is really really bad as a 2-of. Either play 4 or none at all. Problem with LP is that it does nothing on it's own... I would go with zero (tested it with Swiftspear for the same reason, dropped for given reason)

EDIT: I have a question for you all:

Searing Blaze vs Searing Blood vs Sudden Shock...? I have been unsatisfied with Blaze, but found Blood a bit meh. Sudden Shock... You tell me :-)

[echofish]

I think blaze is the most satisfying spell to play in the deck. Nothing feels better than to blaze their deathrite and attack with guide/swiftspear.

[Kraus]

Hello and welcome!

Interesting build, but this has been tried before (to some extend). A couple of questions:

1. Can you tell something about various MU's? For instance, various DTB.

2. How many times has your theoretical T2-kill occured?

3. Swiftspear has been tested, included by me, and also been dropped. You really need to play your burn to get value out of her. Apparently, you feel more at ease with this playstyle. Did you ever run in to problems where you a) didn't want to play burn or b) had nothing to play at all?

4. In my opinion Lotus Petal is really really bad as a 2-of. Either play 4 or none at all. Problem with LP is that it does nothing on it's own... I would go with zero (tested it with Swiftspear for the same reason, dropped for given reason)

I'm quoting Chatto, but my response to his fourth point should also answer sunlith42's question.

First, thanks for the welcome!

Now, to address your points in order:

1. On DTB:

Omnitell: If this were extremely prevalent around me, I'd board so many REBs and Pyroblasts. I've beaten it before, but mostly thanks to variance. Burn is a T3 deck, Omnitell is a T2 deck. It scares me. Like Charbelcher and Oops, All Spells, this deck is just flatly faster than me and I have to either board specifically for it, or have an incredible hand and luck. I think it can be beaten with a devoted board plan, though. It's not quite as much of a boogeyman for me as those two other combo decks.

Grixis (whatever style): I'm only worried if three of my spells get countered. At that point, they may have the tempo to beat me. My topdecks are almost always good, but depending on their creature suite, I might not be able to catch up if early spells get rebuffed.

White decks with obnoxious artifacts/creatures (Batterskull/Thalia/etc.): Game one can be a crapshoot, if they land things that are anathema to me, like Batterskull, Jitte, or Thalia. Game two, I can convert to something more traditional for Burn, with Vorticies, backed up with Smash to Smithereens. Thalia ever remains a pain, and eats a bolt or something ASAP. It's manageable, unless they just start gaining a bunch of life. Burn can't really deal with that, unless there's a way to destroy what's gaining them life. An inherent premise to Burn is that you only count down, never up. When that's violated, the game is out of control.

Miracles: I hate this deck. I hate that it can literally counter everything I have. (I got to learn the hard way that Terminus actually costs 6). This is, hands down, the worst matchup for Burn outside of absurdly fast combo. Smash and Shushers are how I generally board, though REB/Pyro might not be bad for shutting down Counterbalance. I've also heard that just dumping as many spells on them as you can is a good way to screw up their sequencing, and some spells may get through.

BUG: This doesn't seem too bad. Hymn and Goyf hurt like hell, but it otherwise has reminded me of other Delver matches, which aren't too bad. I can race them, if my hand isn't being wrecked. There's not too much to do about them.

2. I actually have yet to see it, probably in part to how few Petals I play. A friend figured it out and told me about it at GP Charlotte, after I mentioned the Petals in my deck.

3. I am generally not cagey with my spells. I will just launch them at an opponent's head, since that's how you get them from 20 to 0. In this unreserved style of play, Swiftspear shines. She could even potentially tangle with a Goyf. I presume you may play a little more reservedly than I do, so I can see why more conservative Burn players would eschew her: She's not a four damage spell like Guide is, unless you're going ape on your opponent. The only stuff on the field I stop to murder is Thalia, Meddling Mage, and Infect creatures that are about to get pumped, otherwise, everything is going at the other guy's skull, so Swiftspear gets swole and gets swung with.

4. I am conservative with the number of Petals because of my intuition. I should do the actual math to see how often four Petals might screw everything up, but so far, this number has produced nice results. I really should do the math and test with more, this number of Petals has no solid basis.

Edit: I don't like Searing Blaze because it's dependent on Landfall, which might not happen after T2. Searing Blood doesn't necessarily do its damage to the player like Blaze does. Sudden Shock is simply Infect hate.

[Krimson Viper]

Searing Blaze vs Searing Blood vs Sudden Shock...? I have been unsatisfied with Blaze, but found Blood a bit meh. Sudden Shock... You tell me :-)
I feel like this subject between Blaze and Blood has been beaten up pretty badly and think something in the OP should be posted. Here's my opinion:

Searing Blaze is good if you have lots of land drops to take advantage of it. I.E. If you play plenty of Fetchlands and run twenty to twenty one lands in your build. Searing Blaze takes advantage of the fact that there's two targets and doesn't lean on the fact that the targeted creature must die. If you face Griselbrand, Tarmogoyf, or Mother of Runes then this is probably the spell for you. You need to abuse your land base a little. Now because of that, you're walking a very sharp line against twin matches. Things to think about.

Searing Blood is good because cheaply built Burn decks and decks that run less than twenty lands can't take advantage of the lower land play, but most of the creatures in Legacy are two toughness or less. It also allows you to get around Hexproof player abilities. Things like that(Hexproofed player) don't come up often in Legacy, but constant damage does, which is an argument for running Blood over Blaze.

In the end, if you have a build that you are targeting for your play style and you have the Searing Blaze or Searing Blood question, look at the pros and cons of each and choose that card. Each is situationally better, and very rarely is there a card that is one hundred percent of the time strictly better than another.

Sudden Shock is trash. I run it because of Infect. I have three of them in my small meta.

[Kraus]

Sudden Shock is trash. I run it because of Infect. I have three of them in my small meta.

Hey now, anything that makes an Infect player look like they're going to cry can't be total garbage!

[Krimson Viper]

Hey now, anything that makes an Infect player look like they're going to cry can't be total garbage!

LOL, ok. It's "cute."

[Chatto]

@ Krimson Viper: thanks for the information. I had the same ideas. If ever something better is printed I will replace Blaze in an instant :smile:

[Krimson Viper]

Looking at the OP, I see Feline is no longer keeping this thread for herself. Any one wanting to fulfill the spot?

[bigwerdz]

@chatto
I personally love the searing effects. I currently run 3 blazes main and 3 bloods side. They are the best of both worlds. Instead of ignoring your opponents creatures to go upstairs just kill them AND go upstairs! Sudden shock has the upside of being hard to stop but most times you can make sure your searing spells resolve by playing around the counters and protections.

@krimson viper
As usual I agree with mostly everything you said.

as far as miracles and the current meta is concerned I am considering testing 2 taigas to facilitate destructive revelry over smash to smithereens out of the board. My local meta has been boarding pretty hard against me with cop reds and the like. Also there are plenty of decks where the d-revelry could help increase percentages like miracles and omnitell. I am by no means sold on this idea and have only got to test it once on paper so far in a 1k that I didn't do well in. I don't think that there is anything else I would bring in to utilize the green splash for that would help us in general. I have tweaked my board to run 2 pyrostatic pillar over the null rods I had been using to great effect. They have been great against miracles and also gives me stuff to board in against other combo decks to strengthen those matchups. Most of the best games I have had against onmitell involve multiple eidolons or pillars. For the record here is my sideboard:
2x pyrostatic pillar
1x sulfuric vortex
3x smash to smithereens(or destructive revelry depending how this testing goes)
3x searing blood
3x tormod's crypt
3x ensnaring bridge

[Krimson Viper]

Can't pilot another deck until the heat dies down? Pun intended

[bigwerdz]

I try to play around with other decks but always come home quickly. I just love being the bad guy...

[Krimson Viper]

Ha, yeah. It's fun piloting this deck because it gets so much hate. It's a troll deck, if you will. The D&T player I smashed on Sunday was just loathed to sit across from me. I had to hold back a smile so I don't rub it in. That was a bit of a fun police moment. :(

[ArkadianZietz]

I am considering testing 2 taigas to facilitate destructive revelry over smash to smithereens out of the board. My local meta has been boarding pretty hard against me with cop reds and the like. Also there are plenty of decks where the d-revelry could help increase percentages like miracles and omnitell. I am by no means sold on this idea and have only got to test it once on paper so far in a 1k that I didn't do well in. I don't think that there is anything else I would bring in to utilize the green splash for that would help us in general.

I ventured off not long ago and played a single Taiga in my 60 to support Revelry and even K.Grips at one time. I took a few wins where those SB tech carried me and the extra flexibility was great, but the flip side was a few nights where I was repeatedly punched in the throat by Wasteland and ended up choking on 2CMC spells in hand and not drawing into another mana source. Peeling it in your opening 7 or drawing it early can be a bit of a liability when you need to play it to cast your non-green spells. I only tested this for 6 weeks at my LGS, so my experience is limited, but the feel-bad moments drove me back to a traditional mono-red build.

If you mess around with any number of Taiga and you see it in your opening hand, knowing your opponent is on Wastelands, would any of you ship it back or would you just run with it? While I tested it I never sent a hand back based on having a Taiga, but getting greedy is what led to me being punished. In Legacy Burn, that's supposed to be my job to hate on decks who get greedy with land :cool:

[Krimson Viper]

How many lands are you guys running while splashing for green?

By the way, Burn took down Indy's SCG: IQ. It runs four Swiftspear and has its Searing effects in the side. it looks like it's geared more towards a combo meta. Grim in its side, four Pyrostatic Pillars as well. Twenty one lands.

[sirlaser]

Vexing Shusher is definitely the card you want to go to if you want to handle Miracles

You'll probably need 4 then. They like to Plow/Snapcaster -> Plow our shushers.

[Chatto]

You'll probably need 4 then. They like to Plow/Snapcaster -> Plow our shushers.

Three would be enough: they don't have CounterTop on turn one, so first thing is to play as much Burn-spells as possible. After they establish CounterTop you throw in Shusher. At least, that's how I would do it (I'm running three in my SB)

[Speedbump]

Three would be enough: they don't have CounterTop on turn one, so first thing is to play as much Burn-spells as possible. After they establish CounterTop you throw in Shusher. At least, that's how I would do it (I'm running three in my SB)Three is probably the correct amount, depending on the meta. (Mine is heavy on Blue-based decks, so I run 3) Against Miracles, it's perfectly fine to sandbag onto it until you need to kill them (usually past Turn 5), although it can be correct to jam one on Turn 2-3 if you've had already had a creature removed.

I've had decent success with it when testing against RUG Delver as well, although that might just be due to variance. (The theory being, that the Delver player has to overextend on trying to counter Price of Progress that you run him out of resources, and you also have to side out Searing Blaze if you run it maindeck)

[Krimson Viper]

Three is probably the correct amount, depending on the meta. (Mine is heavy on Blue-based decks, so I run 3) Against Miracles, it's perfectly fine to sandbag onto it until you need to kill them (usually past Turn 5), although it can be correct to jam one on Turn 2-3 if you've had already had a creature removed.

I've had decent success with it when testing against RUG Delver as well, although that might just be due to variance. (The theory being, that the Delver player has to overextend on trying to counter Price of Progress that you run him out of resources, and you also have to side out Searing Blaze if you run it maindeck)

I haven't played against RUG Delver yet, only UR and BUG Delver. Why would Searing Blaze be cut? I can understand Blood because they creature needs to die, but Blaze will have two targets. Getting three mana with higher land count isn't hard. Legit question.

[Kraus]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=86599

This deck won an IQ on Sunday. Of interest to me is its creature suite, which includes Swiftspears over Lavamancers, even with all the fetches. Fetches appear in Lavamancer builds to feed Lavamancer, but why are they here?

This makes me wonder: Is shuffle just that important in Burn? Do we need to shuffle to guarantee card quality?

[Scott]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=86599

This deck won an IQ on Sunday. Of interest to me is its creature suite, which includes Swiftspears over Lavamancers, even with all the fetches. Fetches appear in Lavamancer builds to feed Lavamancer, but why are they here?

This makes me wonder: Is shuffle just that important in Burn? Do we need to shuffle to guarantee card quality?

He has 4 Searing Blaze and 3 Grim Lavamancer in the SB, so it's for post-board games with those.

[Kraus]

He has 4 Searing Blaze and 3 Grim Lavamancer in the SB, so it's for post-board games with those.

Well, that'll learn me to read more carefully.

[Speedbump]

I haven't played against RUG Delver yet, only UR and BUG Delver. Why would Searing Blaze be cut? I can understand Blood because they creature needs to die, but Blaze will have two targets. Getting three mana with higher land count isn't hard. Legit question.The reason I take it out after Game 1 is due to the relative weakness of the card. (Dead against Wild Mongoose, quite often dead against Tarmogoyf, reasonably good against Delver of Secrets.) While the three damage is often good, getting to deal that three damage is harder in actuality, especially as you have to play around Daze or Spell Pierce, with Stifle as an additional bogeyman in Game 1. I'd much rather Relic of Progenitus and/or Vexing Shusher in that matchup, as they seem to be more proactive threats.

Against BUG/UR Delver, Searing Blaze is generally good, as it bricks against less creatures. (Should be able to kill all of UR Delver's creatures, and most of BUG Delver's creatures)

[Krimson Viper]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=86599

This deck won an IQ on Sunday. Of interest to me is its creature suite, which includes Swiftspears over Lavamancers, even with all the fetches. Fetches appear in Lavamancer builds to feed Lavamancer, but why are they here?

This makes me wonder: Is shuffle just that important in Burn? Do we need to shuffle to guarantee card quality?
I mentioned this on last page. ^_^
His build looks like it is geared more towards a combo like meta. His fair MUs are already good to go.


How many lands are you guys running while splashing for green?

By the way, Burn took down Indy's SCG: IQ. It runs four Swiftspear and has its Searing effects in the side. it looks like it's geared more towards a combo meta. Grim in its side, four Pyrostatic Pillars as well. Twenty one lands.

[Chatto]

@ Krimson Viper: I also missed your question regarding Green and land-count: always twenty, with a minimum of eight fetch and one (if possible two) Taiga.

[Dutch253]

Is Vexing Shusher still a legitimate SB card for Burn? I'm pretty new to the format and a much more experienced Legacy player told me to take them out because they are: a) too mana intensive and b) usually do nothing the turn they come down. Any tips?

[Chatto]

Is Vexing Shusher still a legitimate SB card for Burn? I'm pretty new to the format and a much more experienced Legacy player told me to take them out because they are: a) too mana intensive and b) usually do nothing the turn they come down. Any tips?


It depends on your meta. I have played a green splash with K-Grip in the side for a while, but have now opted for a mono-red version with Shusher in the side. Menners here have opted for Shusher because a) it's a creature and b) you only need a couple of spells to get through.

[Maikhell]

Hey guys, cheers!

So, I was looking at the new spoilers and hoping for that potential new 1 mana bolt, but that new "Fiery Impulse" just ruined this slot... Anyway, today this card was spoiled:

"Exquisite Firecraft - 1RR
Sorcery
Exquisite Firecraft deals 4 damage to target creature or player.

Spell mastery - If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, Exquisite Firecraft can't be countered by spells or abilities."

It's not the new bolt that we deserve, but still, it have some potential.

[Speedbump]

Hey guys, cheers!

So, I was looking at the new spoilers and hoping for that potential new 1 mana bolt, but that new "Fiery Impulse" just ruined this slot... Anyway, today this card was spoiled:

"Exquisite Firecraft - 1RR
Sorcery
Exquisite Firecraft deals 4 damage to target creature or player.

Spell mastery - If there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, Exquisite Firecraft can't be countered by spells or abilities."

It's not the new bolt that we deserve, but still, it have some potential.Unfortunately, the card is not Legacy playable. I would not be able to justify a sideboard slot on it, when cards like Vexing Shusher do the uncounterable spell role better. Costing 3 is also a drawback, especially as the only cards at that slot are Sulfuric Vortex (which is already stronger against Control) or a hardcast Rift Bolt. (In the rare circumstance of not having enough time to suspend it.)

I can see this being strong enough for Modern though, if your meta is heavily blue.

[ArkadianZietz]

How many lands are you guys running while splashing for green?

I've stuck to 20 lands, 8 of which are fetches. When I ran Taiga it was just a single copy.

[Krimson Viper]

Made it to third place using the same main deck as before. (See post number eight zero three)
Side board
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Sudden Shock
1 Sulfuric Vortex

I beat Reanimator because he punted game two and let me resolve Tormod's Crypt with Force in hand, two to zero. Game one I had too fast of a clock and I guess he had Iona in the side. I killed him on turn three in game one. Out Goblin Guide, in my graveyard hate. Oh, and I lost the die roll.

I lost the die roll and round two to BUG Delver on the Tasigur/Hymn build. Game one it was a race. He countered nearly everything I had to get rid of his turn one Delver(he was on the play). I eventually got it with a Searing Blaze and followed up with a PoP for eight for the win. Game two was a top decking race. I sided out Vortex and two Guides, brought in Sudden Shock and the extra Blaze. Got me while he was at three life with Goyf. Game three I feel I punted. I opened up with a one lander and had Lavamancer and Rift Bolt and it was a fetch I opened with. I went turn one into Grim, when I feel I should have turned one Rift Bolt on suspend. Why do I feel like I punted? Well, I should have played it safe and felt like I didn't know I wasn't going to top deck a land, which I didn't the following turn. I had no other one mana spells to play and he ended up killing Grim. I had no other way to kill his Shaman, he had no other land, and the game ran away from there. My hand was two PoP, a Fireblast, Eidolon, and I think I top decked into Searing Blaze. Bummer.

Game three was against BUG Delver with Dark Confidant and I lost the die roll. Rolled him game one, no questions asked. Same side strategy as the previous build. Game two was kind of close until I killed Delver while on eleven life with him at eighteen. I rode Grim for the win on both games, with some help from PoP. Never touched me again.

Has anyone else noticed that one mana blue spell that redirects effect to another target unless you pay two colorless? It's the second or third time I've seen a BUG Delver deck bring it in against me. Very useless because you can play around it like you do Pierce and Daze.

[echofish]

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/magmaticinsight.jpg

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/magmaticinsight.html

What do people think?

[Ace/Homebrew]

What do people think?
No...
Imagine the fairly common scenario where your hand is empty and you just need to draw one more card that does damage. Instead you draw this card. :cry:

[Speedbump]

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/magmaticinsight.jpg

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/magmaticinsight.html

What do people think?Card is nowhere near playable in Burn.

Sensei's Divining Top is better for this type of role, as it also provides resiliency.

[datanaga]

Andy Cooman's Burn, 36th at Grand Prix Lille 2015

Creature (15)
4 Goblin Guide 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel 4 Monastery Swiftspear 3 Grim Lavamancer
Sorcery (12)
4 Lava Spike 4 Chain Lightning 4 Rift Bolt
Instant (11)
4 Lightning Bolt 3 Price of Progress 3 Fireblast 1 Shard Volley
Enchantment (2)
2 Sulfuric Vortex
Land (20)
7 Mountain 4 Wooded Foothills 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Arid Mesa 1 Barbarian Ring
60 Cards


Sideboard (15)
4 Red Elemental Blast 3 Ensnaring Bridge 3 Pyrostatic Pillar 2 Pyroblast 3 Smash to Smithereens

[Lyle Hopkins]

Card is nowhere near playable in Burn.

Sensei's Divining Top is better for this type of role, as it also provides resiliency.

I've been playing a single copy of Sensei's Divining Top since I saw Yusuke Shimizu's list (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9543&d=254782&f=LE).


Andy Cooman's Burn, 36th at Grand Prix Lille 2015...

Burn has been performing well at the last couple Star City Games Invitational Qualifiers too:
2nd at SCG IQ Bristol (http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=29&t[T3]=3&start_date=2015-06-28&end_date=2015-06-28&state=TN&city=Bristol&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks)
2nd at SCG Super IQ Columbia (http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=33&t[T3]=3&start_date=2015-06-28&end_date=2015-06-28&state=MO&city=Columbia&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks)
8th at SCG IQ Augusta (http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=29&t[T3]=3&start_date=2015-06-27&end_date=2015-06-27&state=GA&city=Augusta&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks)
1st at SCG Premier IQ Indianapolis (http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=45&t[T3]=3&start_date=2015-06-21&end_date=2015-06-21&state=IN&city=Indianapolis&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks)

[sirlaser]

What do you guys think of this list off of the Melbourne Eternal Masters Legacy Event? Barbarian Ring was before my foray into the format so I've no experience using it or seeing it played.


Lands: (19)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
10 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

Creatures: (10)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

Non-Creature Spells: (31)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Fireblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard: (15)
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Searing Blood

[Speedbump]

I've been playing a single copy of Sensei's Divining Top since I saw Yusuke Shimizu's list (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9543&d=254782&f=LE).Same here. That list caused minor changes to my deck, to accommodate the slower play style his list requires.


What do you guys think of this list off of the Melbourne Eternal Masters Legacy Event? Barbarian Ring was before my foray into the format so I've no experience using it or seeing it played.


Lands: (19)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
10 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

Creatures: (10)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

Non-Creature Spells: (31)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Fireblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard: (15)
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Searing BloodI'm the guy who won Eternal Masters, so obviously I quite like that list. :wink: I'll try my best to give some mindset as to why I ran that list, although I'm happy to answer anything I missed out on.

This list was tailored more towards an assumed Miracles-heavy meta, which is why the list is slower than the Burn lists coming out nowadays. (The lists running Monastery Swiftspear seem to be more tailored to an OmniTell-heavy metagame; those lists trade late-game resiliency for killing them more often on Turn 3, whereas I feel much more comfortable playing both the "Hope I dodge Omni-Tell" and "Hope I get paired up against Miracles" games.) Unfortunately, I didn't get to play against any of the Miracles players, so my use of Barbarian Ring was very limited. I think I used it once in the 6 rounds of Swiss (ID'd in the 7th round), and can't remember using it in the Top-8. I played against two Omni-Tell players; winning against my Round 2 opponent, who FoW'd my Vexing Shusher on a mull to 6, and losing to Joe Fox in Round 5, who had a decent Game 1 hand.

Sensei's Divining Top is the real deal though. After looking at Yusuke Shimizu's list, it was obvious that this is what my list needed; I cut out a land for it. Between raw card selection gained from looking at the top 3, using fetchlands to shuffle to find cards that you need/clear cards you don't need, and playing nicely against your opponent's mid-game discard spells (typically through drawing better in the midgame), as well as being useful against Liliana of the Veil/Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Sensei's Divining Top enables greater success in the late game. You end up having more gas in the late-game through increased card selection (which increases the overall card quality of your hand), and can even steal games more often with finishers like Price of Progress/Fireblast by finding them more often.

About the only thing I'd change in that list is to take out a Mountain for the ninth fetchland, to further maximize the synergy with Searing Blaze, Grim Lavamancer and Sensei's Divining Top.

[Dan Pyre]

who FoW'd my Vexing Shusher
Ouch, he must have been mad about that after the fact.

[Speedbump]

Ouch, he must have been mad about that after the fact.Not going to lie, my shit-eating grin when I said "It resolves." probably didn't help. He took that loss pretty well.

My round 3 opponent was saltier though (playing Shardless BUGw, splashing for Meddling Mage and other stuff I didn't see). Game 3, the board state was as follows:

Opponent: 15 life, 4 tapped dual lands, Liliana of the Veil (on enough counters to make me sac a creature), Tarmogoyf (6/7 at that time)+Deathrite Shaman (tapped) + Meddling Mage (played that turn to name Rift Bolt), one card in hand. He might have had one more creature on board, but I was basically dead on board.

Me: 8 life, 3 lands in play (one tapped Mountain, one untapped Mountain, one fetchland), suspended Rift Bolt, Sensei's Divining Top, two cards in hand (Lightning Bolt and Fireblast)

I'm basically on the Price of Progress or bust game plan. I spin Top the first time, don't find it. I crack my fetchland, and spin the Top again. Whiff again, but find another fetchland to keep my chances alive. I draw the fetchland for my turn (leaving Rift Bolt in exile), and I crack it to spin the top again. I find Price of Progress on the top of my library, and draw it with a Top activation. Smack him for exactly lethal with Price of Progress+Lightning Bolt+Fireblast.

He was quite salty at the end of the game (understandably so), although we both agreed that whatever Meddling Mage named was irrelevant. (Price of Progress is my only out there, and I can hit it with either Rift Bolt or Lightning Bolt if it names anything troubling)

[Krimson Viper]

Has anyone started testing Molten Vortex? I'm planning on grabbing a play set to test.

[datanaga]

Has anyone started testing Molten Vortex? I'm planning on grabbing a play set to test.

IMHO it is strictly worse than top in burn deck, dont need to test it.

[Krimson Viper]

Well, I probably won't get a play set, but I'll probably use three as a replacement for Grim to see what it does and how it does it. It might not be a worse top deck compared to Grim.

[datanaga]

Well, I probably won't get a play set, but I'll probably use three as a replacement for Grim to see what it does and how it does it. It might not be a worse top deck compared to Grim.

It does nothing on its own, It is horrible topdeck as well and even more horrible in multiples, you will see:) You want to play your lands ASAP because of tax counters and fireblasts.
It is good only if your are terribly flooded (or maybe with loam) and in that case shocks will not you win the game, really wasted money on that card, buy top or sudden shocks:)

[Krimson Viper]

It does nothing on its own, It is horrible topdeck as well and even more horrible in multiples, you will see:) You want to play your lands ASAP because of tax counters and fireblasts.
It is good only if your are terribly flooded (or maybe with loam) and in that case shocks will not you win the game, really wasted money on that card, buy top or sudden shocks:)

I do know how to pilot the deck and I have little hopes for it, but I would want to see if its actually a viable replacement for Grim Lavamancer.

You don't actually want to play all of your lands. Usually stopping at three or four is a good call to keep the rest in your hand. You never want to give your opponent the reign to do whatever they want without a precaution. Plus having lands in your hand necessitates Searing Blaze.

[paeng4983]

Burn decks have been doing good lately at any SCG Legacy tournaments!

Good Job!

[Kraus]

Has anyone done any testing with Day's Undoing?

[sirlaser]

Has anyone done any testing with Day's Undoing?

That's probably a better question to ask in Modern Burn threads. It's much more difficult to convince Legacy Burn to splash any colors.

[Krimson Viper]

Has anyone done any testing with Day's Undoing?

I didn't even think about that in this deck. Someone up for testing it? I'll be testing Molten Vortex for the time being.

[Speedbump]

I didn't even think about that in this deck. Someone up for testing it? I'll be testing Molten Vortex for the time being.I'm fine sticking with my current 75, although if Melbourne's meta ends up with more Omni-Tell, I might try the Swiftspear version.

I think that Day's Undoing is reasonably strong in a RGu(x) Modern list, with a bunch of 1-drop Burn spells and Day's Undoing to refuel on Turn 3. Can't convincingly jam this in Legacy Burn though, as it would both eat into the finisher slots, as well as the notion of giving your opponent 7 fresh cards to kill you with also seeming quite bad.

I don't think Molten Vortex is strong enough in Burn in general, as it eats into the Grim Lavamancer/Sensei's Divining Top slots. I don't think that there is enough feasible activations in a match to outweigh the performance that either Grim Lavamancer or Sensei's Divining Top gives. Seems breakable enough in Modern/Legacy in a Lands shell though.

[bigwerdz]

Of all the origins cards i think molten vortex is the closest to playable. I think if it sees play it will be out of the board. Congratz to all the burn players that have been top 8'ing recently. Anyone going to eternal weekend?

[Krimson Viper]

I'm definitely not going to Eternal Weekend. I have one event I'm going to this year and it's GP Tacoma!

I top eight at the CFB forty eight man "$1K event" beating two Omnitell, GW 12-Post, and Aluren, losing to Reanimator in the swiss and getting knocked out by Omnitell in the quarter finals. I made one mistake the entire tournament and it was in the quarter final against Omnitell game two. I should have cast Vexing Shusher instead I casted two Rift Bolts on suspend. I lost that match with him on two life. I should have looked at the end game, but instead just looked at the short term. I don't think I would have won the match, but it's still something I want to note to myself for future games.

GGs won be the matches against Omnitell in the swiss, and PoP killed 12-Post. That 12-Post was a very interesting build, using Suppression Field to halt aggro, and that Kithkin legend that stops X and four CMC spells. I raced Aluren, and gave him his first loss to Burn ever. Felt pretty good, but kind of bad since he was a friend. Reanimator went like usual, just ran me over. This is a match up I have given up on though, so it was expected. The second Omnitell match, the guy telegraphed that he had Leyline of Sanctity and dropped it before I said I'll keep. my initial seven would have stomped, but it was all spells that targeted. I mulled to six keeping Grim, GG, Eidolon, PoP, and two lands. I drew into two other PoPs while he had two Ancient Tombs in play. He needed a single Island and he would have started rolling.

Same main deck as before, but here's the side:
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Sudden Shock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Mindbreak Trap

I wish I could remember details, but again, this is the best you're probably going to get out of me.

Some changes I would have made if I knew the meta before hand was take out a Smash, Sudden Shock, and the Mindbreaks to put two Swiftspear and two Searing Blood into the side. I saw absolutely no Storm decks, no D&T, but there were BUG decks of various kinds all over the place. I saw maybe two Miracles decks, a deck that just needs to fall off the face of the planet. Omnitell really is a deck that's taking off in popularity at this store, and I'm assuming elsewhere as well. My only suggestion against Omnitell is add as many creatures as possible for constant damage. I know if I was able to find similar hands I had against the previous Omni decks, I feel like I would have won it.

Any questions? I feel like I can answer those.

[Brael]

Same here. That list caused minor changes to my deck, to accommodate the slower play style his list requires.

I'm the guy who won Eternal Masters, so obviously I quite like that list. :wink: I'll try my best to give some mindset as to why I ran that list, although I'm happy to answer anything I missed out on.

Bit late to this, haven't really been playing Legacy lately.

The top is interesting, I kind of like the idea of a slower but more resilient list. How do you feel about Magma Jet to find Top? Would you rather just run more Tops instead?

[f7eleven]

The deck plays a good handful of cards that are currently legal in standard -- but not even the standard burn decks play Magma Jet

[f7eleven]

I'll be playing Burn at Eternal Weekend tomorrow. I've finally switched over to Swiftspears - for more speed in the Omnitell matchup. I've cut the Sulfuric Vortex's completely, which I'm OK with, with a playset of Smash to Smithereens in the side.

I had been running some Flame Rifts in the side to bring in when Searing Blaze is dead, but wanted some more SB slots for Pyrostatic Pillars. So I've replaced Vexing Shushers with Exquisite Firecraft - I think they can fill both the shusher and rift roles. We'll see.

I've tried SDT in a couple tournaments and did not like it at all. Especially not in place of the 20th land. In the games where I drew top, I wanted more lands so I could be spinning AND casting spells.

In the matchups where you want to max out searing spells, I actually like Searing Blood more - hence 3 Blaze man / 4 Blood side.

My list for tomorrow:

1 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
10 Mountain
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Chain Lightning
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Fireblast
4 Goblin Guide
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blaze

Sideboard:
3 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Searing Blood
4 Smash to Smithereens

[Nordvoll]

f7eleven:

I think you are better off just accepting that Omnitell and yardbased strategies are bad matchups, because they will allways be an uphill batlle for burn no matter what you do.
Its better to focus on and strenghten other matchups you can make favourable.

[Lyle Hopkins]

Bit late to this, haven't really been playing Legacy lately.

The top is interesting, I kind of like the idea of a slower but more resilient list. How do you feel about Magma Jet to find Top? Would you rather just run more Tops instead?

I don't think I like running more than one copy of Sensei's Divining Top. I would never want an opening hand with two Tops and I'd like to keep the deck as consistent as possible.

[LIKEABOSS]

Hey guys, so I am a relatively new Legacy player. I mostly play on cockatrice. Anyway, I was wondering, are there any replacements for PoP (I own one) and chain lightning (geez this is expensive)?
If not, I can get some, but I cant really buy them on tcgplayer or anything.
Aside from those 7 cards, I have the rest of the staples (goblin guide, Eidolon, fetches, etc.). Anybody know a good place to buy singles in the US?

[Speedbump]

Bit late to this, haven't really been playing Legacy lately.

The top is interesting, I kind of like the idea of a slower but more resilient list. How do you feel about Magma Jet to find Top? Would you rather just run more Tops instead?Magma Jet is a card that I would not be comfortable running in Burn. The main problem with the card is that it's a two mana play that doesn't really do much in winning the game, and the damage output isn't enough to spend 2 mana on. Even if the scry 2 could guarantee a set-up of 4-6 extra damage over the next few turns, it's still too expensive to play for the damage it deals. I would only consider it if it were a Shock that had Scry 2, and even then, it might be strictly worse than the singleton Sensei's Divining Top against control decks.

I have only tested Burn with one Sensei's Divining Top, so I don't have any actual data with builds that contain two. In theory, the second one is much less valuable than the first one, although I could see a need for a second if your meta has 25%+ Miracles in it. I still like running one, but I might test two for the next Legacy league I enter in Melbourne to see if there's much more improvement.


Hey guys, so I am a relatively new Legacy player. I mostly play on cockatrice. Anyway, I was wondering, are there any replacements for PoP (I own one) and chain lightning (geez this is expensive)?
If not, I can get some, but I cant really buy them on tcgplayer or anything.
Aside from those 7 cards, I have the rest of the staples (goblin guide, Eidolon, fetches, etc.). Anybody know a good place to buy singles in the US?There's no real replacement for Price of Progress in Legacy, as it's one of the best cards Burn has in punishing greedy manabases. I feel that Chain Lightning is irreplaceable as well, as it's one of the better cards in dealing with Turn 1 Deathrite Shaman/Delver of Secrets, although you might be able to get away with 1-2 Shard Volley if there's no other option.

I would still go for running playsets of both in the maindeck, as that's the optimal build for Burn.

[Dr. No Face]

Anyone try running a Roast (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=roast) in their SB? I haven't exactly been mad to draw it against a batterskull or tasigur, or even just a 4/5 Goyf.

[bigwerdz]

Nope never tried roast. The card you are roasting you should have other answers to (batterskull) or just flat be able to race. A 2 mana sorcery that doesn't kill delver and can't go upstairs isn't anywhere near where burn want's to be.

[Brael]

Played a small event this past week, the way my schedule is for the next few months I can't make the local FNM's but I can make the Legacy nights so that's what I'll be playing. It was only 3 rounds (weeknight so it has to end somewhat early) but I did manage to 3-0 beating Death and Taxes, Miracles, and Grixis Delver. This is what I played, no real noteworthy plays to talk about other than using a Volcanic Fallout in game 3 of round 3 to deal lethal damage to both myself and my opponent so I could get a game 4 since I had no winning line. I meant to play the Top that has been mentioned but I forgot until well after the event had started (and the Top was sitting at home) so I wasn't able to do so, maybe next week.

Land 19
1 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
9 Mountain
1 Taiga

Creatures 13
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Grim Lavamancer

Spells 28
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
3 Atarka's Command
4 Price of Progress
3 Searing Blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Sideboard 15
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vexing Shusher



Magma Jet is a card that I would not be comfortable running in Burn. The main problem with the card is that it's a two mana play that doesn't really do much in winning the game, and the damage output isn't enough to spend 2 mana on. Even if the scry 2 could guarantee a set-up of 4-6 extra damage over the next few turns, it's still too expensive to play for the damage it deals. I would only consider it if it were a Shock that had Scry 2, and even then, it might be strictly worse than the singleton Sensei's Divining Top against control decks.

I have only tested Burn with one Sensei's Divining Top, so I don't have any actual data with builds that contain two. In theory, the second one is much less valuable than the first one, although I could see a need for a second if your meta has 25%+ Miracles in it. I still like running one, but I might test two for the next Legacy league I enter in Melbourne to see if there's much more improvement.

I think you're underselling Magma Jet a bit, your example here just said if the scry was worth 6 extra damage, on top of the 2 that it deals you wouldn't play it, so you're essentially saying that 8 damage for 2 mana isn't good enough when the reality is that that's precisely what Price of Progress is at it's best. Now, I'm not arguing that Magma Jet is worth 8 damage, but I do find the scry to be worth some damage. I take a pretty formulaic approach to the deck where I look at how do I deal X damage in Y cards with Z mana. Right now the parameters I use are 24 damage (incase of a couple DRS activations or a Batterskull hit or something), in 9 cards (T4 on a mulligan to 6 on the play), with 8 mana (assumes mana available per turn is 1-2-2-3). Or to put it another way after you do the math I want 160 total damage between all 60 cards with no more than 53 total mana spent. Magma Jet lets me shift those numbers to 154 damage in 58 mana, so those 4 Jets compared to a poor bolt like Lava Spike are +1 damage (lose 4 from bolt to Jet but gain 5 in scry) and additional point of mana free (gain 5 but the Jets cost 4 more) . Which if you then work backwards implies 4x scry 2 is worth 3.5 damage each for 2 mana (which is about where Atarka's Command ranks, which oddly enough is what I took out Magma Jets for), which isn't quite a 4 for 2 but does help find high impact sideboard cards. Though there's something to be said for consistency and there's an argument that it's better to draw Lightning Bolt+Incinerate than Magma Jet+something that may or may not be what you want from the top of the deck.... I'm actually currently way higher on the damage front than what I'm shooting for, but that's mainly to keep threat density after boarding in some spells that don't deal damage.

It has worked for me, but I don't go to the bigger tournaments. I usually only have to beat Miracles once per event, where it's more popular than that I can certainly see where my approach is completely flawed.

[Ultrab77]

Hi,

I went last week 5-1 to our monthly tournament (4th of around 45 people), beating BUG Delver, Oops All Spells, Tezzerator and Infect, and loosing to Dredge. I went home with a Tundra which was nice.

I tested Speedbump's list with light changes especially to the SB:
Lands: (19)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
9 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

Creatures: (10)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

Non-Creature Spells: (31)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Fireblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard: (15)
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Searing Blood
1 Sulfuric Vortex

I was expecting a lot of Miracles but there wasn't any, we had instead 4 SNT and 4 or 5 Infect, lot of Delver decks, Dredge, MUD, Fish and even Goblin.

What I can remember:

Round 1: bye
Round 2: Dredge
G1 He comboes while at 5 life. SB: +3 Relic, +1 PP, -4 Searing Blaze
G2 Relic on turn 1, activated turn 3, he scoops
G3 I forget Eidolon trigger on Cabal Therapy flashback (twice...) which costs me the game

Round 3: BUG Delver
Can't remember but it's a good matchup even if i was hymn'd twice. She thoughtseized my Top on turn 1 instead of Fireblast.

Round 4: Oops All Spells
G1 I'm on the draw, he wins turn 1
G2 He plays 2 Lion's Eye Diamond T1, then nothing and I win T3
G3 T1 I play a land, suspend Rift Bolt, he plays Spoils of The Vault naming Goblin Charbelcher, draws 20 cards and dies.
10 minutes round, I grab a sandwich.

Round 5: Tezzerator
G1 Can't remember well but he takes at least 6 damage from his lands
G2 I mulligan to 6, then make a mistake not bolting Tezzeret and I take the ultimate, he wins 12 life and I scoop
G3 Easy win, two Vortex make the job

Round 6: Infect
G1 I bolt his T1 Hierarch, he has 3 Nexus but that's not enough
G2 opening hand Searing Blaze x2, Searing Blood, Bolt, 3 lands: I smile
I just bolt his T1 elf, then let open my lands and don't play anything and just wait for his creatures to get them. Infect is a good matchup.

I will test SDT again, for I just played it vs Dredge and it was no use. But it makes people guess when they have the possibility to thoughtseize it.

I will definitely drop the Barbarian Ring and replace it by a Mountain, and I think of dropping the Pyrostatic Pillars, maybe for 2 Swiftspears, or testing Exquisite Firecraft (maybe the Swiftspears would have been good vs Dredge).

What do you think of the build that went 4th to the SCG Premier IQ Charlotte, with 14 creatures and a Taiga for Destructive Revelry? I can't see many matchups where I want DR in place of StS and Taiga is vulnerable to Wastelands and PoP.

I love this thread!

[bigwerdz]

Just got eliminated from Jelly Jam 2015 in the top 6. I have been playing the following list for a while now both in Jelly Jam and a few local tourneys. I took 3rd in a charity even this weekend and lost my win and in in a 1k this weekend with the same list. Miracles and omnitell have been the biggest problems. I don't think there is a super good way to fix the omnitell match up besides trying to race better with swiftspears, which I feel makes us worse in other MU's. I am going to test 2 exquisite firecraft in the board for 2 of the searing bloods since the decks I really want 6 searing effects for are down.
deck list:
8 Mountain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Searing Blaze
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Taiga
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 3 Destructive Revelry
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Searing Blood

[Lyle Hopkins]

For the people testing Exquisite Firecraft, are you boarding it in against anything other than Counterbalance? It seems like it might be worth bringing in against Delver decks as well.

[Ultrab77]

Just got eliminated from Jelly Jam 2015 in the top 6. I have been playing the following list for a while now both in Jelly Jam and a few local tourneys. I took 3rd in a charity even this weekend and lost my win and in in a 1k this weekend with the same list. Miracles and omnitell have been the biggest problems. I don't think there is a super good way to fix the omnitell match up besides trying to race better with swiftspears, which I feel makes us worse in other MU's. I am going to test 2 exquisite firecraft in the board for 2 of the searing bloods since the decks I really want 6 searing effects for are down.
deck list:
8 Mountain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Searing Blaze
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Taiga
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 3 Destructive Revelry
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Searing Blood

Hi, for which matchups did you find Destructive Revelry better than Smash to Smithereens ?

[bigwerdz]

@Ultrab77
Well the initial reason I switched was to try it for popping counterbalances and omniscience. Also doesn't hurt that a lot of the best sideboard hate against burn are enchantments(chill, warmth, COP:red, absolute law...). So far when they are good they are real good, but I haven't been able to blow up counterbalances or omniscience's as often as I thought I was going to. Overall I think that they aren't a great call unless you are expecting to see hate. I'll probably go back to mono red then switch at the local 1k's where people know I'm playing and are going to have extra surprises for me.

@Lyle Hopkins
I'd imagine just miracles. What would you take out for them against delver? I can't think anything I would want to cut for the firecrafts.

[Lyle Hopkins]

I'd imagine just miracles. What would you take out for them against delver? I can't think anything I would want to cut for the firecrafts.

I've been cutting Fireblast because I feel like sacrificing mountains can make it difficult to play around soft counters.

[Ultrab77]

Two players top 8'd with Burn at SCG Premier IQ Cincinnati!

One of them had it seems a special plan vs Miracles & Omni-Show with Swiftspear's build:

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=10443&d=259772&f=LE

Sideboard:

2 Searing Blaze
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Smash to Smithereens
4 Pyroblast
4 Exquisite Firecraft

The other was quite different with 1 SDT and diversified sideboard:

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=10443&d=259773&f=LE

2 Skullcrack
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Smash to Smithereens
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus

I quite like the straightforward plan of the first one. But even with such a sideboard I would feel like a huge underdog vs Show, so I still have my philosophical question: do we have to improve the slightly defavorable or even matchups, or try to steal some of the very bad matchups?

[bigwerdz]

Right now I think that with the right board plan we can get to where we want to be against the field 'cept for omnitell. The only real way we beat them now is to race them and hope they have a slow hand or catch them in cantrip hell with eidolon or pillar in play. I don't know of any board plan that is going to close that gap. My opinion is to just accept that being our worst match-up and make everything else better. Hopefully we an rely on other decks to suppress the number of omni we will see at the top tables.

[Krimson Viper]

I immensely disagree with Bigwerdz.

Reanimator is our worst match up by far.

[sirlaser]

I immensely disagree with Bigwerdz.

Reanimator is our worst match up by far.

I agree with this. We can side against Omnitell with up to 8 REB effects; they're also a T2-4 combo deck. Nothing much we can do about Reanimator (T1-3 combo) aside from having Faerie Macabre when they go to reanimate.

[Speedbump]

I immensely disagree with Bigwerdz.

Reanimator is our worst match up by far.Agreed. While there is some possibility of racing Omni-Tell, there's fuck-all chance of winning against Iona.

[bigwerdz]

Ok yes reanimator is our worst match up. That deck mostly slipped my mind because its numbers have been down. A quick look using Starcity's deck finder (yes I know there are other tourneys but at least in the states if you are playing in a 75+ person event its probably a scg event.) shows 15 decks containing exhume compared to 59 decks containing omniscience have top 16'd in the past 6 months. What I was getting at in my last post is that of the decks that are mostly assured to play at the top tables of a real event omnitell is the worse. While we are on the subject of bad match ups though what are we going to do about belcher? There's fuck-all we can do against t1 belcher...

[Maikhell]

I really disagree about Reanimator being that abyss. I don't even remember when was the last time I lost to then. The point is, they usually can't do nothing against faerie macabre at G2 because they almost ever side out the Thoughtseize. The card 'Reanimate' gets useless pretty fast unless they try use it on a Platinum Emperion (but nobody really uses it). The problem starts when they bring S&T.

Oh, and by the way, Omnitell is, by far, our worst matchup.

[Krimson Viper]

Sure, you can run Faerie Macabre, but then you can lose to Dredge then. Sure Dredge is less of a played deck than Reanimator, but I would rather lose to Reanimator than Dredge. Personal vendetta of mine since my only losses at an SCG Open were from Dredge.

I'm curious, taking out grave hate to shore up Miracles since we already have a bit of leverage against that deck already might be a good idea. Same with Omnitell. I know I don't want to lose Shusher and I don't like trying to fix the Reanimator and Dredge match ups. Lands is the only deck I feel we can fix with graveyard hate.

Thoughts about that?

[PhyrexianPossum]

Is Monastery Swiftspear counter-intutive to use with Vortex? e.g. fast speedy games vs. the long haul

Also, Top is amazing and comboes slightly with Swiftspear

Also, if I was to have no grave hate at all (for my meta) what would I replace it with?

[Clark Kant]

I honestly can't think of a reason why literally every non Chalice legacy deck doesn't play atleast 1 singleton of Top, burn included.

[Lyle Hopkins]

Also, if I was to have no grave hate at all (for my meta) what would I replace it with?

I like loading up on Searing Blaze and Searing Blood. The Searing effects really help shore up a great deal of match-ups. I'd also suggest running Exquisite Firecraft For Miracles.

I'm curious what everyone is doing for Omni-tell. Are there any cards that seriously improve this match-up, or is it worth focusing the sideboard on the rest of the field?

[Brael]

I like loading up on Searing Blaze and Searing Blood. The Searing effects really help shore up a great deal of match-ups. I'd also suggest running Exquisite Firecraft For Miracles.

I'm curious what everyone is doing for Omni-tell. Are there any cards that seriously improve this match-up, or is it worth focusing the sideboard on the rest of the field?

How many Firecraft are you running and MB or SB? Personally I think I would rather have Shusher, it represents 1 fewer point of damage in Burn (assuming they can kill it right away) but it's also able to help deal with things like a Counterbalance with REB or getting a creature down.

[Lyle Hopkins]

How many Firecraft are you running and MB or SB? Personally I think I would rather have Shusher, it represents 1 fewer point of damage in Burn (assuming they can kill it right away) but it's also able to help deal with things like a Counterbalance with REB or getting a creature down.

I'm currently playing four Exquisite Firecraft in the sideboard. My problem with Vexing Shusher is that I feel like the card is most effective when utilized the turn it comes into play because of how easily Miracles can deal with creatures. This requires at least four mountains to cast an uncounterable bolt. Also, Monastery Mentor presents an aggressive clock, which can make slow rolling Vexing Shusher while you draw lands pretty difficult. I think four uncounterable damage for three converted mana cost may just be better.

At the recent Star City Games Invitational, Patrick Sullivan talks about Exquisite Firecraft during Austin Yost and Yuta Takahashi's round one match (https://youtu.be/ampBaRyWxZM). The Exquisite Firecraft discussion happens at 23:50 of the video, but I recommended watching the entire match. Patrick Sullivan's commentary offers some great advice on the match-up and Austin Yost demonstrates how to effectively play against Miracles.

[silly]

Hey guys, I'm looking to get into to Legacy scene, and since I'm poor and don't want to shell out the big bucks for a super expensive deck before I wet my toes, I was looking into building Burn for my first list.

Anyways, I've been looking through a bunch of decklists, and I'm attempting to work out exactly what is supposed to go into my 60 card maindeck (and my 15 card sideboard, but sideboard decisions seem harder to make because a lot of the cards are meta cards). There are some key things that I'm not really understanding. Hopefully some of you can help me out.

First off, the following is what I have written down as staples. They seem to be common to pretty much every deck. Tell me if I'm wrong here.

Creatures:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex

Lands:
Usually 19-20 lands total, with 8-10 fetches.

This puts me at 53 cards (if I run 19 land). Meaning I have seven slots left in the mainboard to fill out.

Now I see that almost all lists run an additional creature. Either Monastery Swiftspear or Grim Lavamancer, but never both. What are the advantages and distadvantages of running one over the other? What other cards work better in the Swiftspear builds versus the Lavamancer builds, and vice versa?

Lets say I add in 3 Lavamancers. This puts me at 4 more mainboard slots. The most common cards that fill in those slots seem to be creature removal. Either Searing Blaze or Searing Blood (Between 2-4 mainboard copies seems common). Speaking of those cards, which one is better to run? Blaze or Blood? And how many copies is good between the mainboard and the sideboard (since I see this effect a lot in sideboards as well).

Other cards I see sometimes run mainboard are Barbarian Ring (only ever 1 copy), and Sensei's Divining Top (only ever 1 copy). Benefits and downsides of those?

I think if I were to build a list right now, I would probably run the staples, plus 3 Lavamancers, 3 Searing effects, and 1 Top. But obviously I'm unfamiliar with both how the deck plays and how the legacy metagame is.

Also, I'm totally unfamiliar with building a sideboard. How much graveyard hate/artifact hate is standard to include? Running some copies of REB/Pyroblast seems common too. I think roughly 3-4 copies? I've also seen Exquisite Firecraft run recently, and that card just seems pretty slow to me. Even if it does "get through counters". Why would you ever run that over something more efficient? Just general sideboard help would be appreciated.

[Ace/Homebrew]

It's been a while since I rocked Burn, but I believe my answers are valid.

Lavamancer vs Swiftspear is meta dependent.

Swiftspear is better in a control meta where haste is relevant and blockers are few.
Lavamancer is better in a midrange/creature-meta like Elves and D&T where lack of haste isn't a huge deal and shocking must-kill creatures without wasting cards is a priority.

The correct searing effect depends on your manabase. If you are using fetchlands, you use Blaze. Otherwise you use Blood.

Very generally speaking, you either run fetchlands or Barbarian Ring. I've seen up to 2 Rings in no-fetch lists. Over the course of a game you are likely to take the same amount of damage either way you go (from paying to search or from tapping to make :r:). Barbarian Ring is good against stack control decks because it isn't a spell.

Speedbump's list from the Jelly Jam tournament on theSource is probably a good reference based on what you mentioned your current preference is:

Lands: (19)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

Creatures: (10)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

Non-Creature Spells: (31)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Fireblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard: (15)
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Searing Blood

I would personally go to 11/12 fetches and 9/8 Mountains over using Barbarian Ring and Top. In the board I would swap the Barbarian Ring for either a 4th Relic or a 2nd Searing Blood.

[silly]

It's been a while since I rocked Burn, but I believe my answers are valid.

Lavamancer vs Swiftspear is meta dependent.

Swiftspear is better in a control meta where haste is relevant and blockers are few.
Lavamancer is better in a midrange/creature-meta like Elves and D&T where lack of haste isn't a huge deal and shocking must-kill creatures without wasting cards is a priority.

The correct searing effect depends on your manabase. If you are using fetchlands, you use Blaze. Otherwise you use Blood.

Very generally speaking, you either run fetchlands or Barbarian Ring. I've seen up to 2 Rings in no-fetch lists. Over the course of a game you are likely to take the same amount of damage either way you go (from paying to search or from tapping to make :r:). Barbarian Ring is good against stack control decks because it isn't a spell.

Speedbump's list from the Jelly Jam tournament on theSource is probably a good reference based on what you mentioned your current preference is...

[DECK HERE]

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll probably follow your advice and aim towards building the mainboard of the deck you linked. I'll probably cut the Top for a third Lavamancer for now though, since I have the extra Lavamancer but no Top.

The sideboard is definitely really up for debate though. I'm still deciding what is best. Since I don't really know my current meta, I might just go with graveyard hate, artifact hate, and REB/Pyroblast for 12 slots, and then three filler slots. (Do I need a fourth Lavamancer at all, or is that going overboard?)

[iamajellydonut]

The sideboard is definitely really up for debate though. I'm still deciding what is best. Since I don't really know my current meta, I might just go with graveyard hate, artifact hate, and REB/Pyroblast for 12 slots, and then three filler slots. (Do I need a fourth Lavamancer at all, or is that going overboard?)

Something to bear in mind with sideboards is that most specific-hate won't help you win you the game. It'll hate whatever you need it to, but it won't help you put them from 20 to 0. It's the same problem combo faces. Like, REBs are awesome (fuck yooou Show and Tell), but you'll notice that the deck Ace linked to doesn't run a single one. Whether that's the right call or not (generally is in modern times), it should still serve to illustrate a point. Everything in his sideboard either deals damage or, in the case of Relic of Progenitus, replaces itself. It all acts as hate, but it all still manages to keep the main goal chugging. That goal being "kill your opponent". For every Grafdigger's Cage or Ensnaring Bridge you sideboard in, you're effectively sideboarding one Lightning Bolt out. It's counterproductive. Necessary in many cases, but still something be aware of.

With regards to creatures like Monastary Swiftspear and Grim Lavamancer, the reason you never see them together is because they're the filler cards. They're not your core. They're the "aaah crap I got like three slots left". In some match-ups though, such as Ace illustrated, they are invaluable though. Which is why they make the cut while others do not.

[Krimson Viper]

Hey guys, I'm looking to get into to Legacy scene, and since I'm poor and don't want to shell out the big bucks for a super expensive deck before I wet my toes, I was looking into building Burn for my first list.

Anyways, I've been looking through a bunch of decklists, and I'm attempting to work out exactly what is supposed to go into my 60 card maindeck (and my 15 card sideboard, but sideboard decisions seem harder to make because a lot of the cards are meta cards). There are some key things that I'm not really understanding. Hopefully some of you can help me out.

First off, the following is what I have written down as staples. They seem to be common to pretty much every deck. Tell me if I'm wrong here.

Creatures:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex

Lands:
Usually 19-20 lands total, with 8-10 fetches.

This puts me at 53 cards (if I run 19 land). Meaning I have seven slots left in the mainboard to fill out.

Now I see that almost all lists run an additional creature. Either Monastery Swiftspear or Grim Lavamancer, but never both. What are the advantages and distadvantages of running one over the other? What other cards work better in the Swiftspear builds versus the Lavamancer builds, and vice versa?

Lets say I add in 3 Lavamancers. This puts me at 4 more mainboard slots. The most common cards that fill in those slots seem to be creature removal. Either Searing Blaze or Searing Blood (Between 2-4 mainboard copies seems common). Speaking of those cards, which one is better to run? Blaze or Blood? And how many copies is good between the mainboard and the sideboard (since I see this effect a lot in sideboards as well).

Other cards I see sometimes run mainboard are Barbarian Ring (only ever 1 copy), and Sensei's Divining Top (only ever 1 copy). Benefits and downsides of those?

I think if I were to build a list right now, I would probably run the staples, plus 3 Lavamancers, 3 Searing effects, and 1 Top. But obviously I'm unfamiliar with both how the deck plays and how the legacy metagame is.

Also, I'm totally unfamiliar with building a sideboard. How much graveyard hate/artifact hate is standard to include? Running some copies of REB/Pyroblast seems common too. I think roughly 3-4 copies? I've also seen Exquisite Firecraft run recently, and that card just seems pretty slow to me. Even if it does "get through counters". Why would you ever run that over something more efficient? Just general sideboard help would be appreciated.

In certain instances it isn't about complete efficiency and more for reliability. I haven't played Burn for close to a month now, but I have two Firecraft in my side replacing two flex sideboard spots. When I get the chance, I'll let you know how it goes. My idea behind it is that I can get players who use life as a resource against until it get dangerous and start countering everything under the stars and kill Shusher on sight. Firecraft will get through that when the game goes late, and it probably will.

[Brael]

Been pretty sick and as such out of Magic for the past couple weeks since I've more or less been bedridden. Managed to force myself through our Thursday night Legacy tonight though. Must different meta than it usually is. The last time I played it was something like 3 miracles, 1 burn, 3 D&T, 2 Delver, 1 goblins, and a couple others. Today it was all combo.

Round 1 I played Goblins and took an easy 2-0, after an absurd sequence of poor draws on both our parts where his lackey would hit me for 1, and my Swiftspear would hit him for 1. That went on for a good 10 turns.

Round 2 was against High Tide. I won 2-1 but it was close. I made some bad plays with land drops setting up future Time Spiral powered Fireblasts. The first game was miserable, and I of course drew lots of Blazes and Prices. Price wasn't totally dead though because I could use them to force shuffles for my opponent at inopportune times if he didn't want to take the damage, still I lost game 1 by 1 point. In game 2 I got a turn 3 kill. Game 3 was dragged out after my Eidolon ate a Force but I tried to set myself up to take advantage of Time Spiral. I managed to get to 4 lands on the board and knew my opponent was on the Sumer Bloom plan with Tropical Islands, and he eventually went for it and I got him with a 8 point Price from 12 life, followed by a fireblast that ate a FoW, and another fireblast that finished things.

Round 3 was against Oops All Spells. I happened to have 3 Faerie Macabres in my sideboard and they did some work. After the predicable loss to my opponent in game 1 (killed me t1 on the play even), I bring in the Faeries and mulligan aggressively until I find them. My opponent made some sequencing errors where he lost the ability to therapy my Faerie, then once he comboed and went for Dread Return, I exiled his guys, which meant I won on his next draw step. In Game 3 it's a similar plan but I only have to mulligan to 5 rather than 2. The 5 is abysmal with nothing to do until turn 4 thanks to no lands, but my opponent can't get his Cabal Therapy for the card I obviously have. Eventually I get things together and beat him down to 4 with a lethal Fireblast in hand. He combos, I use the Faerie, then I fireblast him... in 20 or 30 games against this deck I have never taken even a game, I am blown away I took a match against this deck.

Round 4 was Dredge. I was packing a lot of Volcanic Fallouts today and they saved me from the zombie horde. It also helped that my Lavamancers could kill my own guys to slow down the Bridges.

Anyways, 4-0 record, I have no idea how that happened through that field. I was mainly expecting to see Reanimator and Miracles.

[LIKEABOSS]

So this was posted on the MTGS burn thread...
http://www.eternal-clash.com/event/19-09-2015/top-8-decklists/

Creatures (18)
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Ash Zealot
4 Goblin Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Vexing Devil

Instants (9)
1 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress

Sorceries (4)
4 Chain Lightning

Enchantments (11)
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Eidolon of the great Revel
4 Tahngarth’s Rage

Lands (18)
18 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Meekstone
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Knight
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Island of Wak-Wak
4 Smash to Smithereens
1 Shatterstorm

...What?

[LIKEABOSS]

I have been playing around with the list, and it is surprisingly consistent and good. It comes with a decent storm matchup with Eidolon, Pillar and Scab-Clan berserker, and is ridiculously fast.

The deck is so weird ._.

[Krimson Viper]

That's not Burn though, that's Red Deck Wins.

[Speedbump]

So this was posted on the MTGS burn thread...
http://www.eternal-clash.com/event/19-09-2015/top-8-decklists/

Creatures (18)
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Ash Zealot
4 Goblin Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Vexing Devil

Instants (9)
1 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress

Sorceries (4)
4 Chain Lightning

Enchantments (11)
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Eidolon of the great Revel
4 Tahngarth’s Rage

Lands (18)
18 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Meekstone
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Knight
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Island of Wak-Wak
4 Smash to Smithereens
1 Shatterstorm

...What?I believe the answer to that is "MTGS Burn Thread". Ignore the list, and move on.

Regarding running my Burn list without SDT/Barbarian Ring: At that point, I think the Swiftspear version will be more efficient and suited to the gameplan that those changes make. The SDT is exceptionally useful for the list, as it synergizes well with the mandatory 8-12 fetchlands the list runs. Barbarian Ring is a meta choice, against the large amount of Miracles pilots in Melbourne. If your meta doesn't have a considerable Miracles presence, the SB one can be taken out, but the maindeck one is still quite useful.

[LIKEABOSS]

I believe the answer to that is "MTGS Burn Thread". Ignore the list, and move on.

Regarding running my Burn list without SDT/Barbarian Ring: At that point, I think the Swiftspear version will be more efficient and suited to the gameplan that those changes make. The SDT is exceptionally useful for the list, as it synergizes well with the mandatory 8-12 fetchlands the list runs. Barbarian Ring is a meta choice, against the large amount of Miracles pilots in Melbourne. If your meta doesn't have a considerable Miracles presence, the SB one can be taken out, but the maindeck one is still quite useful.

Yes, but the list isn't the usual crap, it actually top 8'd a somewhat large tournament in Germany. That has to be worth something.

[Brael]

I'm currently playing four Exquisite Firecraft in the sideboard. My problem with Vexing Shusher is that I feel like the card is most effective when utilized the turn it comes into play because of how easily Miracles can deal with creatures. This requires at least four mountains to cast an uncounterable bolt. Also, Monastery Mentor presents an aggressive clock, which can make slow rolling Vexing Shusher while you draw lands pretty difficult. I think four uncounterable damage for three converted mana cost may just be better.

At the recent Star City Games Invitational, Patrick Sullivan talks about Exquisite Firecraft during Austin Yost and Yuta Takahashi's round one match (https://youtu.be/ampBaRyWxZM). The Exquisite Firecraft discussion happens at 23:50 of the video, but I recommended watching the entire match. Patrick Sullivan's commentary offers some great advice on the match-up and Austin Yost demonstrates how to effectively play against Miracles.

Thanks for the link, I think I'm sold on Firecrafts now, which is unfortunate since I just blew my store credit to get 2 more Shushers and finish a playset (not that I ever planned to play the full 4). I liked watching the match, I've played against Miracles enough that I'm pretty comfortable in the match, but the people playing it against me are only average pilots at best and it's a deck where play skill has a huge outcome on games.

On the other hand, Shusher is pretty clunky so I think I'll like the switch. I might try out a Barbarian Ring too, the local meta is interesting. It has me and a couple others that have our decks built but since full proxy is allowed there's a big group that just brings whatever they feel like each week. Typically that's a lot of t1 decks (and a whole lot of miracles), lately it has been combo though.

It's been a long time since I've run Barbarian Rings, how many do people find they can generally get away with taking into account Eidolon, 9-10 fetches, a Taiga (sometimes matters for PoP), Sulfuric Vortex, and any other damage they might take? It seems to me like if I have to put it down as my first or second land drop I'll be taking 4 damage from it that game. Is two sustainable? How about three?

[sirlaser]

It's been a long time since I've run Barbarian Rings, how many do people find they can generally get away with taking into account Eidolon, 9-10 fetches, a Taiga (sometimes matters for PoP), Sulfuric Vortex, and any other damage they might take? It seems to me like if I have to put it down as my first or second land drop I'll be taking 4 damage from it that game. Is two sustainable? How about three?

IMO 2 is the maximum, even for control-heavy metas, because they are cacophonous with Fireblast. I only run 1 in the main.

[the resurrection]

Black Vise is unbanned !

<3 <3 <3

[Krimson Viper]

Black Vise is unbanned !

<3 <3 <3

While I am very happy about the banning, I'm not entirely sure where to slot it in into the deck.

[bakofried]

Cut the flex slots for it and see what happens? Lavamancer & co. You want it as a 4-of, methinks, to maximize chances of dropping it turn 1. Interesting interaction with PoP and Eidolon (making them hold lands and spells in their hands).

[Speedbump]

While I am very happy about the banning, I'm not entirely sure where to slot it in into the deck.Personally, I don't think there's room. I'm perfectly happy with my list, and I think that Vexing Shusher/Exquisite Firecraft are better anti-control cards.

In Magical Christmasland, you play a Turn 1 Goblin Guide into two Black Vise on Turn 2, hitting lands on both turns; leaving your opponent on 8 at the start of their second upkeep. I don't think it is likely enough to occur to take out any Burn spell at the moment, even Lava Spike seems slightly stronger as a general mid-game play.

[LeoCop 90]

I think vise could be a sideboard card. Since on the draw it is very bad (if your opponent casts something on turn 1 then you cast vise on turn 1 you only get 1 damage) it could be sided in games 2 or 3 if you are on the play. When you are on the play it basically guarantees 4+ damages unless you are facing someone that dumps his hand with 0 casting cost spells. Unfortunately it is the worst topdeck ever so i don't think it has a place at all in the 75

[Brael]

I don't think Black Vise is good enough. I keep a spreadsheet where I try to evaluate different cards. What I noticed with Black Vise is that with some pretty basic assumptions like the opponents hand size shrinks by 1 per turn it's basically dead on the draw and that when played on any turn after turn 1 it's also effectively dead. If played on turn 1 on the play with those assumptions it will do 3-2-1 damage over turns 1, 2, and 3 for 6 total. If the opponent mulligans though you've lost half the damage, and if you don't have it in your opening hand and instead top deck it on turn 2 it also does half the damage, even worse if top decked on turns 3 or 4 it does no damage. Additionally, if the opponent goes first they have the opportunity to play a land and a card dropping to 5 in hand making the turn 1 Black Vise bad as well.

All things considered the card evaluated to an average of 2.4 damage on the play and 0.7 on the draw. I suppose there are specific match ups where it can get better results but it's definitely not a main board card.

[Dmnd]

The first testing showed that Black Vise can deal up to 7 damage when played on turn 1 otp. It is sometimes a 0 dmg card aswell.
The question ist therefore: how many games do i lose because i draw into Black Vise. And how many do i win because of BV.
So far i only played 10 games and there were a lot of games without any impact of BV neither for losing nor for winning.
Of the 10 i lost 1 because BV was a dead card and i won 1 game because BV dealt 7 damage.

I will do alot more testing to get some better results.

[Dmnd]

The first testing showed that Black Vise can deal up to 7 damage when played on turn 1 otp. It is sometimes a 0 dmg card aswell.
The question ist therefore: how many games do i lose because i draw into Black Vise. And how many do i win because of BV.
So far i only played 10 games and there were a lot of games without any impact of BV neither for losing nor for winning.
Of the 10 i lost 1 because BV was a dead card and i won 1 game because BV dealt 7 damage.

I will do alot more testing to get some better results.

After another 10 Games. I already lost 5 games because a BV topdeck was exactly the wrong card. And every other damage spell would have won the game instead. (Sadly i didnt win one game because i had a BV)
I guess BV is not that good ;)

[Brael]

After another 10 Games. I already lost 5 games because a BV topdeck was exactly the wrong card. And every other damage spell would have won the game instead. (Sadly i didnt win one game because i had a BV)
I guess BV is not that good ;)

Did you happen to keep track of the amount of damage dealt by each copy of Black Vise that you drew in each game? I'm curious how it compares to my estimates considering the amount of cantriping that goes on keeping the opponents hand count likely higher on the first couple turns than I'm assuming.

[Dmnd]

Did you happen to keep track of the amount of damage dealt by each copy of Black Vise that you drew in each game? I'm curious how it compares to my estimates considering the amount of cantriping that goes on keeping the opponents hand count likely higher on the first couple turns than I'm assuming.

Yes i did,
Turn 1 otp, BV dealt 5,7,9,5 damage. The 7 and 9 damage was due to a land from Goblin Guide and a first turn Ponder or Brainstorm.
A turn 2 BV dealt 2 damage most of the times( 3times 2damage 1time 0 damage) All other BV dealt 0 damage.
I tested against Miracles and Esper Blade (only blue)
In my calculation it dealt 2,9 damage.
One big problem is a Force of Will since you drop two cards. So if you happen to play a GG turn 1 and it gets a FoW all BV you will draw that game are dead.

regards

[Eldariel]

The only reason to even consider Black Vise I see is wanting to inflate your artifact count for something like Shrapnel Blast. And I'm pretty sure that package offers too little in the best case scenario to be worth the inconsistency and worst-case scenarios it causes (imagine drawing multiple Black Vises; chances of the second one ever doing anything in Legacy is almost nil). The real draw of burn is the consistent goldfish with a bunch of maindeck hate cards (Eidolon, PoP, Vortex) and Black Vise would detract from that with an extremely situational card that doesn't really hate on any existent archetypes. Goblin Guide and Monastery Swiftspear are both generally as good as Black Vise turn 1, and better any other turn. If people don't even consider Swiftspear an automatic 4-of (I would but that's just me; I'd ideally want 10-12 one-drop T3 goldfish creatures that do some damage even if answered and aren't horrendous on subsequent turns), I can't imagine how Black Vise could fit, especially with Treasure Cruise and Dig gone from the format. People simply don't draw cards that much in Legacy; it's mostly filtering.

[Dmnd]

The only reason to even consider Black Vise I see is wanting to inflate your artifact count for something like Shrapnel Blast. And I'm pretty sure that package offers too little in the best case scenario to be worth the inconsistency and worst-case scenarios it causes (imagine drawing multiple Black Vises; chances of the second one ever doing anything in Legacy is almost nil). The real draw of burn is the consistent goldfish with a bunch of maindeck hate cards (Eidolon, PoP, Vortex) and Black Vise would detract from that with an extremely situational card that doesn't really hate on any existent archetypes. Goblin Guide and Monastery Swiftspear are both generally as good as Black Vise turn 1, and better any other turn. If people don't even consider Swiftspear an automatic 4-of (I would but that's just me; I'd ideally want 10-12 one-drop T3 goldfish creatures that do some damage even if answered and aren't horrendous on subsequent turns), I can't imagine how Black Vise could fit, especially with Treasure Cruise and Dig gone from the format. People simply don't draw cards that much in Legacy; it's mostly filtering.

I absolutely agree with you.
After the testing i dont even want Black Vise to be in my SB. To inconsistend.

[LeoCop 90]

Well, dealing 5,7,9,5 damage turn one on the play is A LOT of damage. The problem is that vise is good just in this situation. As i said, you could put vises in your sideboard, bring them in only on the play, and hope to have them in your opener because you probably win every game where you cast a card that at worst is a 5 damage lava spike.

[Dmnd]

Well, dealing 5,7,9,5 damage turn one on the play is A LOT of damage. The problem is that vise is good just in this situation. As i said, you could put vises in your sideboard, bring them in only on the play, and hope to have them in your opener because you probably win every game where you cast a card that at worst is a 5 damage lava spike.

That is not entirely true since the first Black Vise may deal 5 damage but the second one later than turn 2 always deals 0 damage. So in the end a card that deals approx 2,9 damage is when drawn multiple times still worse than a lava spike.
Even if it deals 7 damage and you draw into a second one its only 3,5 damage that each copy dealt. Plus it weakens your other 1 Drops. GG or Switspear a round later is 1-2 dmg less. So if i have an opening hand with GG and Vise, BV firt turn also means 2 less damage from GG where a simple burn spell would allow you to play GG in the first turn and the spell would deal its damage anyways.
In my List i cutted the creature removal spells like Searing Blood. To be honest they also deal 5-6 damage. If the enemy plays a Stoneforge you have to remove it no matter what. Searing blood in that scenario is worth 6 damage. ( A black Vise turn 1 dealing 5 damage face and a lb on the SFM is 5 damage face / Searing blood on the SFM is 3 face + LB 3 face = 6 damage. I think the scenario where you have to remove a creature is far more likely to happen than a first turn BV play without ever drawing a second Black Vise the entire game )

I will not include BV in my Sideboard

[LeoCop 90]

Well, i am not advocating putting black vise in the board. I am just saying this is the only use it could have : sometimes it would pay off, but overall i, like you, think it is too inconsistent and not worth it.

Searing blaze and searing blood are another story. When you play against delver/deathrite/stoneforge thay are the best spells you can have in hand, so i think you should spend 3-4 sideboard slots for them. In a metagame with mostly fair decks searing blaze is also a good maindeck choice... even against miracles and sneak and show it could find targets in mentor and griselbrand (though you would always side it out against these matchups).

[Eldariel]

Well, i am not advocating putting black vise in the board. I am just saying this is the only use it could have : sometimes it would pay off, but overall i, like you, think it is too inconsistent and not worth it.

Searing blaze and searing blood are another story. When you play against delver/deathrite/stoneforge thay are the best spells you can have in hand, so i think you should spend 3-4 sideboard slots for them. In a metagame with mostly fair decks searing blaze is also a good maindeck choice... even against miracles and sneak and show it could find targets in mentor and griselbrand (though you would always side it out against these matchups).

Cards like Searing Blaze, Price of Progress and company are the type where I like to start with ~2 maindeck with the rest in the sideboard in an unknown metagame. The fact that you have them in your deck means your opponents have to play as if you had 'em even if you don't, and this way you're kinda half-presideboarded for various match-ups without still losing too many percentages against decks where those cards are dead. This is a well-tested methodology from various formats and it usually works out rather well: this way you still have them as outs but have a very low chance of randomly losing vs. Miracles/Storm/whatever just because you happened to draw multiple Searing Blazes.

I'm also personally in the camp where I want to run few more lands but want to stick to 3-4 Barbarian Rings; I find the most common reason the deck loses vs. blue stuff is that the last few spells run into the counterwall and the ground is clogged up (and blue stuff is what you absolutely have to have a decent match-up against for this to be a reasonable deck choice). Barbarian Ring is an extremely convenient way to end the game, and enables running more lands while still avoiding the flood losses. 21 lands makes hitting the 3rd one for Sulfuric Vortex and efficiently playing out your hand rather consistent while still leaving you with enough Mountains to keep Price of Progress rather one-sided and enable consistent casting of at least a single Fireblast each game.


I suppose if I were making a MD for an open field such as the GP now I'd go with:
Creatures
4 GG
4 Swiftspear
4 Eidolon
1 Grim Lavamancer

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
2 Lava Spike
2 Searing Blaze
3 PoP
4 Fireblast
3 Sulfuric Vortex

Lands
5 Mountain
12 Fetch
4 Barbarian Ring

SB:
3 Volcanic Fallout
1 PoP
3 REB
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Gravehate

[LeoCop 90]

I like not playing 4x price of progress main deck. There are decks like miracles that can afford to fetch basics and they will do so, and finding yourself with 2 price of progress in hand that deal only 2 damage each can lose the game. I approve 3x.
Instead i would never play 4x barbarian ring. Trust me, when you open a hand where your only lands are rings, the damage you take can be too much. Moreover, playing 4x fireblast and only 17 mountains means that you will almost never be able to cast a second fireblast. If you really want the 4 rings i would cut one fireblast, but i think the better choice is playing 2 rings, 19 mountains and 4 fireblast.

[Eldariel]

I like not playing 4x price of progress main deck. There are decks like miracles that can afford to fetch basics and they will do so, and finding yourself with 2 price of progress in hand that deal only 2 damage each can lose the game. I approve 3x.
Instead i would never play 4x barbarian ring. Trust me, when you open a hand where your only lands are rings, the damage you take can be too much. Moreover, playing 4x fireblast and only 17 mountains means that you will almost never be able to cast a second fireblast. If you really want the 4 rings i would cut one fireblast, but i think the better choice is playing 2 rings, 19 mountains and 4 fireblast.

I really like the Ring's ability to finish games TBH. It really minimizes the landflood issues Burn often suffers of and is one of the few ways to push damage through the blue deck's counterwall when they inevitably stabilize at 1 life. I agree that it might be correct to cut a Fireblast (I've run 3 Fireblast in the past myself) and that the land situation will be problematic once in a while but on the flipside, I think it'll cut down on many of the reasons Burn often loses (not hitting the 3rd land to cast all your stuff in time, drawing too many lands and lacking damage spells, getting stuck behind Chalice/Trinisphere/Counterbalance/Counterwall/whatever with enemy at low life and being unable to push the last few points through).

[Amon Amarth]

I really like the Ring's ability to finish games TBH. It really minimizes the landflood issues Burn often suffers of and is one of the few ways to push damage through the blue deck's counterwall when they inevitably stabilize at 1 life. I agree that it might be correct to cut a Fireblast (I've run 3 Fireblast in the past myself) and that the land situation will be problematic once in a while but on the flipside, I think it'll cut down on many of the reasons Burn often loses (not hitting the 3rd land to cast all your stuff in time, drawing too many lands and lacking damage spells, getting stuck behind Chalice/Trinisphere/Counterbalance/Counterwall/whatever with enemy at low life and being unable to push the last few points through).

I'd cut a FB and a Ring because drawing two of either in your opening hand sucks. However, I do like the slightly bigger mana base for exactly the reasons you've mentioned.

[Dmnd]

With the existence of Exquisite Firecraft i dont think i will ever run Babarian Rings ever again ;)
I even cut the fetch lands at some point because i lost multiple games due to my own fetch damage that i would have won otherwise.

Since the swiftspear made the deck faster and Eidolon more consistend i may include the fetches again.

[LeoCop 90]

The existence of exquisite firecraft doesn't change anything at all regarding barbarian ring. They are both ways to push damage through countermagic, but you can't really compare a land to a burn spell that costs 3. I wouldn't play exquisite firecraft maindeck, because 3 mana is a lot of mana and it's better to either stop our curve at 2 or run sulfuric vortex which is more powerful; it is a nice sideboard card against miracles. Barbarian ring, instead, is very good in preventing flood, though as i said i wouldn't play more than 2 because of self damage and problems with fireblast/price of progress/grim lavamancer

[optml]

Hi legacy community, I thought I’d tell you about the recent weekly event I attended at my local magic store; 4-0.
I took burn, of course. The meta here can be difficult to judge – there are a few ‘once-in-a-while’ dudes, who’ll appear once in a blue moon and whip out an unusual deck. Everyone does play tuned, optimised competitive decks, with all the latest tech. There are also a couple of guys (and I mean guys... NO girls attend) who have enormous collections and bring something different almost every week.
So... It makes it tricky to sideboard.

That said, burn rocks. I’ve got a couple of decks (manaless dredge, Oops! All spells, and my own astral slide) but none are as interactive or fun. And, I would even hazard, as skill intensive as burn.
The deck list I played is a more budget version but I find it still strong. I just don’t own any fetchlands.

Deck List; pretty much stock list.
Enchantments
2x Sulfuric Vortex
Instant / Sorceries
4x Lightning bolt
4x Price of Progress
2x Searing blood
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lava Spike
4x Fireblast
4x Rift Bolt
Creatures
1x Grim Lavamancer
3x Monastary Swiftspear
4x Goblin Guide
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
Lands
20x Mountain

Sideboard
1x Flame rift
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Grafdigger’s cage
4x REB / Pyroblast
3x Smash to Smithereens
2x Vexing Shusher
2x Ashen Rider

24 attendees last night, and when wandering around I saw 2x Painter, 2x miracles, 2x nic fit, 1x Sneak + Show, 1x Charbelcher, 1x RUG, 1x Dredge, 1x BUG, 1x 4C Delver, 1x Elves, 1x MUD 1x Infect.... That’s all I saw, but as you can see you kind of need to cover all bases.
Also, I haven’t attended in 6 months. Stuff has changed in magic! No Dig through time! No Treasure cruise! SCRY AFTER MULLIGAN!?!?
Anyway...

Card choices;
Searing blood over searing blaze as I have no fetchlands. Also why I only play one lavamancer.
I never regretted maindeck searing blood; it even won me a game against miracles, which is always nice. May go up to 3 next time.
Sideboard-
Ashen rider, as almost always at least one Show and Tell variant, but one week had 4. So for 2 slots, as a potential win, can’t complain.
Vexing Shusher was underwhelming, but not sure what I would prefer. Pyrostatic pillar can’t swing for damage, so not ideal. Open to suggestions.
Everything else is pretty stock I think.
My matchups this time were pretty favourable for burn; no combo or graveyard, just (mostly) fair decks.

Games:

Match 1 -Nic-Fit; against a regular. Plays very well every week, very quick and a pleasure to play. Tough to beat though.
G1; I keep a solid hand; 2 lands and plenty of creatures (I think Eidolon and 2x guide). He goes first, plays fetch and whips out a Veteran Explorer. I attack with the guide, he blocks and let’s his die. I search 2 mountains, the cast eidolon. I had a feeling it would all be over before we even started.
He manages to stabilise well though; as next turn he plays land and a pernicious deed. He only had 1 untapped land at this point, not enough to activate, so he passed the turn.
I held back by not playing my 2nd guide, and attacked. He took the damage, and I passed the turn. On his turn, he played a land, cracked the deed wiping my board. Played a veteran explorer, a cabal therapy, which I responded to by playing 2x bolts. He named guide (told you he’s good...) and left me with nothing in hand.
By this time he’s on around 8 life. Unfortunately over the next 4 turns I just drew lands, and he played tarmo, tarmo, and beat me for the win.
0-1
-4 Price of Progress
+1 Flame Rift, +2 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Smash to Smithereens. (Upon reflection, smash had no targets. But I didn’t know what would be better, and he ended the first game with 8 lands, all basics so PoP would be just a pointless)

G2: This game was fairly exciting. I started, guide, then lots of damage spells. It got to a stage when he built up an impressive army; werewolf dude who becomes 4/4 if I don’t cast a spell and gains him life & makes token, tarmo, deathrite, and the werewolf token. I had guide and eidolon.
He really struggled with taking so much damage from eidolon, but he did play 4... FOUR cabal therapies, ALL flashbacked. THAT’S EIGHT THERAPIES?!?!
But he kept getting unlucky with them. Everytime he went blind on it, I was holding all lands. Then I would topdeck a bomb.
Anyway, he’s just got this huge army, and if I don’t kill him that turn, it’ll all be over. He’s on 6 life, I have lava spike in hand, and I top decked a lava spike. Job done.

G3: 1st turn goblin, 2nd turn eidolon, 2 fireblasts, a lava spike and bolt, aided by his sacrificed veteran explorer. It was over by his 2nd turn.
Score: 1-0


Match 2; Painter. Not a guy I’ve played before, but I’ve seen his foiled out Japanese, ultra pricy BUG deck before. Today he’s on a foiled out Japanese, ultra pricy Painter deck. Well... My one of my Price of Progress is foil; so suck. on. that.
Side note; everyone I played that night, and most of the guys there generally, play quickly, professionally, declare the various steps / priority / triggers, etc. If you make a mistake, no ‘take-backs’. It’s how magic should be played and I had a really great time!
Guys, if you’ve never played painter with burn, you should know... It’s our dream match up! They have 8... EIGHT moon effects that essentially do zero against us. They use 8 REB / Pyroblasts - again useless unless they have painter... which is their main win con. Which can be shot down easy-peasy.

G1: He didn’t do anything major. He assembled the combo, but was mana screwed. He only managed to play the painter and grindstone through spirit guides and one mountain.
I had a bolt in hand, and everything else was useless against his painter. I decided to wait to kill it until he assembled the combo. Reasoning was that he was totally mana screwed, so I figured he’d eventually do it in desperation, without keeping mana open for REB. Also, they play ancient tomb, which can help knock down their life.
So board state was:
Him – 1 mountain (untapped), painter, and grindstone. Him on 7 life.
Me – Eidolon and goblin, attacking each turn, and some mountains. Bolt in hand.
He had to do something, as I was getting through 2 damage a turn through attacking. Drew and played Ancient Tomb (left 5) activated grindstone, I bolted his painter and he didn’t have the mana for his REB in hand. Game was over after that.

G2:
-4 Price of Progress, -2 sulfuric vortex, -2 Searing blood,
+3 Smash to Smithereens, +1 Flame Rift, +4 REB / Pyroblast
REALLY good match up post board.
Highlight of the match for me was when we had a counter war! (in a match up with pure red decks!!). He had a flying start, with city of traitors, mountain, monkey guides which let him assemble his combo by his 2nd turn. His 3rd turn, he floated his 2 city mana, tapped his one mountain, then played another mountain. So current state is:
Him: painter, grindstone activation on the stack, one untapped mountain. He was on quite low life, around 10, as I’d spent the first 2 turns hitting him hard.
Me: 1 guide, 3 untapped mountains. I cast smash to smithereens his painter in response to activation (he had no artifacts in graveyard), he REB’d to counter, I Pyro’d that, he exiled a monkey to Pyro that, so I fireblasted his painter. He was out of mana, out of steam.
I won a couple of turns later.
2-0


Match 3- Miracles. So far been really lucky with match-ups; time for my winning streak to end...
I managed to come blasting out of the gate, very quickly, before he had a chance to dominate the board early game. That said, I do find playing just one creature at a time against miracles is best. Terminus is totally backbreaking, and they almost always have it ready to rock, but if it just removes one guide, only to be replaced by another, they are on the back foot.
I got to an interesting situation; he was tapped out playing Counterbalance on his 5th turn, with sensei’s out. He was on 5 life.
I had 2 lands, and a few cards in hand – fireblast, searing blood, sulphuric vortex. I knew he had a counterspell in hand from a goblin flip, and he had been keeping the top 3 cards from ponder, top and brainstorms earlier, so I knew he had something he wanted to keep. It normally means he has a 1, 2 and 3 mana spells on top, so he can lock me out with countertop.
So... I played a move I’m not sure about but still feel it was the right one. He had 2 cards in hand, one was the said counterspell, so I decided to go for fireblast. I didn’t want him to stabilize on 5 life, much better on 1 so it shuts off all fetchlands and future FoW’s he may draw. So I sac’d my lands, dealt him 4 to his face in his EOT.
It resolved.
So now we’re in a very delicate state. I don’t have any lands, nor 1 mana spells. He has 1 life, so no fetchlands or FoW’s, and he’s on around 3-4 lands.
Bring on... TOP DECK MODE.
I hate miracles. It’s boring, and every turn can last an eternity. I understand it takes skill, but anyone who is slow it just goes to time every fucking game. Fortunately this guy is speedy. So we’re both just in ‘draw-go’ mode for around 8 turns, with him manipulating top, never shuffling, and both accumulating cards.
Then, we reach a pretty crucial turn. We’re both at max hand size, at around 5-6 lands each, plus his 2 pointless uncracked fetchlands. It’s his turn, he draw’s his 8’th card...
He plays Vend Clique, targeting me, leaving him with 2 untapped lands.
My hand, which I have been sculpting / playing / discarding, to ensure I have lots of different mana cost instants, is:
Fireblast, searing blood, bolt, price of progress + some sorceries / creatures.
I’ll try and get the stack right on this, but it was a very tense and exciting interchange! Remember through this, he’s on 1 life.
So, with the clique trigger on the stack, I searing blood his creature. 3 mana left for me, 2 for him. He uses 1 for top activation. I respond with fireblast to his face, floating 2 mana. He responds with brainstorm, putting (undoubtedly) terminus on top. 3 mana left for me, 0 mana for him. I respond with a bolt, and he responds by tapping his top and putting it on top of his library. 2 mana left for me, 0 mana for him. I respond with a price of progress.

He’s out of answers.

Long game, and lots of spells to get one damage through. But yay for burn!


G2:
Really aggressive start, with guide, 2 lava spikes, and 3rd turn vortex. Then he got counter-top lock out again.
He managed to plow my guide pretty quickly, so board state was, on his 3rd turn:
Him: 7 life, counter balance, sensei’s top, 1 tapped land (terminus) 1 fetchland, 1 untapped.
Me: Sulfuric vortex. 3 tapped lands.
In my hand I had fireblast, rift bolt, lightning bolt and land. I decided to go for broke, before he stabilized again. In his end-of-turn, I cast fireblast. He didn’t counter vortex, so I figured he didn’t have FoW. He could counter with counterspell, but would need to crack his fetch, which would leave him on 6 life, -2 from vortex next turn, so 4 life (or 2 turns to destroy vortex), and he’d have 3 random cards on top of his library. He didn’t have counterspell, so his only out was to hope terminus (lucky to cost 6 mana!!!) could counter through counterbalance my fireblast. Even then, he’d be tapped out for my damage next turn.
He top’d, no answers, fetched (down to 6 life), top’d again, no terminus, so took 4 damage.
Burn wins 2-0 against miracles! Whoo!



Match 4: Infect. I’d seen him playing earlier, and he knew his stuff. Side note; I was pretty unlucky that in all 3 games against him, I didn’t draw a SINGLE bolt....

G1; I kept an ok hand, but a little slow. It was 2 lands, searing blood, lava spike, goblin guide, lavamancer, eidolon. I figured if I could survive the first couple of turns, he’d be dead in the water.
He played first; pendelhaven into infect elf.
Me: mountain into lavamancer. Reason being that I was going to chump block, next turn searing blood his creature, then play guide + eidolon to bring on quick damage. If I had a bolt / chain lightning I would have killed his creature in my turn.
His 2nd turn; played land, attacked (I blocked), he tapped pendlehaven, cast invigorate, cast berserk, dealt 11 poison damage.
Onto game 2.

G2:
-2 Sulfuric vortex, +1 vexing shusher, +1 flame rift
I had 2x chain lightning in my opening hand. There was nothing he could do this game. I played; first turn laid guide.
He cast infect elf.
I cast lightning. He tried to save it with invigorate. He succeeded. Also, always make them waste their pump spells in your turn if you can. No reason to let them pump in response, then attack. Foolish.
Next turn, he laid blighted agent, but didn’t attack with his elf. I figured he had no boost spells (or wanted to save them for his agent).
My turn; I searing blood his agent, chain lightning his elf. Both resolved. Attacked with guide. After that, he never really got any steam back, and I won easily.

G3:
Really exciting game. Lots of back and forth, him countering my key stuff, and me killing his attacking flying lands.
Crucial turn of the game, maybe turn 6 or 7, board state is as follows.
Him:
9 life, with blighted agent and elf.
Me: Tapped out with Fireblast in hand, eidolon and guide on the board with 3 mountains. I’m on 5 poison counters – he attacks with both, I block elf with eidolon. He pendelhaven’s the agent, then casts berserk on him (takes 2 from Eidolon, so left 7 life) . Makes the agent 4/3, and would bring me to 9 counters. I wasn’t hasty. No reason to kill his creature unless it’s going to kill me outright.
He casts a second berserk (down to 5 life) – I fireblast in response, he doesn’t have the FoW, and I attack for the win in the next couple of turns.
4-0 in matches, and I won a scrubland for my troubles.
Long winded report; if you made it this far, you’re the real champion!
Optml, over and out.

[sirlaser]

Barbarian Ring also pushes through an Eidolon lock, if you are at 1 or 2 life and need a bit more to win. The same cannot be said of Exquisite Firecraft.

[optml]

Barbarian Ring also pushes through an Eidolon lock, if you are at 1 or 2 life and need a bit more to win. The same cannot be said of Exquisite Firecraft.

Understood; but don't entirely agree.
I've played with barbarian ring (ranging from 1-4) and I've found in great in certain circumstances. E.g. Stuck with miracles on 1 life, counter-top lock, it is awesome.

But there are serious downsides.

Imagine an opening 7:
Barbarian ring, lightning bolt x2, goblin guide, Chain lightning, grim lavamancer, price of progress.

Do you keep?
You don't know what they're playing, and you're on the play.

Let's say you keep.

You play your barbarian ring. you play goblin guide.

Their turn. Wasteland.

Your turn. You draw a non-land. You're now in top-deck mode, desperately needing a land.

It can turn awesome hands into terrible hands because of wasteland. I think it has it's place for sure, but I want to be clear that it's not as clear cut as just taking an extra 3 or so damage from it, but otherwise no downsides.

[sirlaser]

It can turn awesome hands into terrible hands because of wasteland. I think it has it's place for sure, but I want to be clear that it's not as clear cut as just taking an extra 3 or so damage from it, but otherwise no downsides.

Agreed, and we are exchanging power for stability/consistency by including nonbasics. I think 1 copy is perfectly fine, however. 2 or more is pushing it and opening the deck up to Wasteland

[RhoxWarMonk]

Agreed, and we are exchanging power for stability/consistency by including nonbasics. I think 1 copy is perfectly fine, however. 2 or more is pushing it and opening the deck up to Wasteland

I play only one barb ring and I find it's perfect.

My current mana base is:
8 fetch
10 Mountain
1 Ring

I quite like it, feels "right" to me but to each their own of course. I completely understand some wanting to run 2-3 Barb rings (4 really feels like too many tho) but I'm not willing to sacrifice the consistency or the extra damage for the edge cases where someone is at 1 life and I'm locked out of the game. Generally, if I'm locked out it's over well before that, but I do like having the singleton available and I've even tried going up to 2 but I ended up cutting the second one over time.

[tescrin]

IMO; I'd just go copy lists that topped a year ago.
The meta should be ripe for it while everyone is getting used to things again; and Burn was a real deck last june or so.

[Speedbump]

I play only one barb ring and I find it's perfect.

My current mana base is:
8 fetch
10 Mountain
1 Ring

I quite like it, feels "right" to me but to each their own of course. I completely understand some wanting to run 2-3 Barb rings (4 really feels like too many tho) but I'm not willing to sacrifice the consistency or the extra damage for the edge cases where someone is at 1 life and I'm locked out of the game. Generally, if I'm locked out it's over well before that, but I do like having the singleton available and I've even tried going up to 2 but I ended up cutting the second one over time.I like that composition personally, although I'm testing 9/9/1 as opposed to 8/10/1.

IFF your meta contains an unreasonable amount of Miracles, then the second in the board is justified. I still wouldn't go more than one maindeck.

[Jon]

I top 16'd the PIQ today. Cast many bolts. Here is my list.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=92685

Creatures (10)

4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Lands (20)

7 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
3 Barbarian Ring
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
Spells (30)

1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
3 Searing Blaze
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
Sideboard

3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Pyroblast
1 Smash to Smithereens
3 Exquisite Firecraft

Top was awesome everytime I drew it, The 3 rings did real work. Anyone wants a list of my matches I can give em..

I started 0-2 and then rattled off 5-0 to get a sweet 100$ and 3 open points.

[biglongjohns]

Excellent news for the burn community! I'm glad to hear this is still a viable Magic strategy! How's the learning curve with this build?

[Speedbump]

Excellent news for the burn community! I'm glad to hear this is still a viable Magic strategy! How's the learning curve with this build?Initially, pretty straight-forward. Conceptually, all the deck is really about is trying to count to 20 the quickest way possible, through aggressive creatures and cheap burn spells (which can also act as removal). So, in a goldfish scenario, the deck is very easy to play. The main point in learning how to play Burn as a beginner, is to learn how to properly sequence your spells. The other main point in testing as a beginner pilot is to figure out which build of Burn you want to play. Test both the Swiftspear and the Divining Top/Barbarian Ring builds, to see which one of those you prefer to play with. While they have a similar gameplan, the Swiftspear version is typically more aggressive (with less ability to lpay a controlling match-up), and the Divining Top builds are typically more controlling, at the expense of about a half-turn of tempo.

Once an opponent is involved in this equation, it gets quite a fair bit harder. While the concept remains the same, there are a few lines that inexperienced Burn players take which lose them the game. Usually, these mistakes involve either firing Burn spells out of sequence, or not accomodating for hand/board position when casting spells. Knowing when to play around Daze/Spell Pierce (as well as knowing when to bait out a Daze/Spell Pierce) is pretty important, as well as a reasonable knowledge of how stack interaction works (very important when playing against Miracles) are good skills to have. Being able to analyse board states effectively will allow you to make the best decision on whether or not a Burn spell needs to be used as a removal spell, or if you have time to let your opponent keep their creature.

Niche interactions tend to occur when playing against fast Combo decks, where the serious decision of "Do I have enough time for Goblin Guide to swing through?" is made. As a general rule, if you think you'll live long enough to crack through twice, then cast Goblin Guide. Otherwise, if you think your opponent is going to cast Ad Nauseum when they untap, then it's generally better to cast a Lightning Bolt. Same rule applies when thinking about suspending Rift Bolt.

Probably best thing to do as a potential Burn pilot is to read articles about the deck, as well as watch some videos of SCG pilots playing the deck. Anything by Patrick Sullivan is pretty good, as well as watching this match between Austin Yost (Burn) and Yuta Takahashi (Miracles) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ampBaRyWxZM) for some analysis on how to play against Miracles. Mike Flores' "Who's the Beatdown?" (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/3692_Whos_The_Beatdown.html) article is a good classic to look at in terms of how to play against Aggro and Tempo decks as a Burn pilot.

While nowhere close to giving a proper analysis on the deck (or how to pick it up), I feel like this is a good starting guide.

[LeoCop 90]

I lost in the finals of a 20/25 people event with burn. Since i didn't have time to tune a list, i just decided to use patrick sullivan's last take on legacy burn : http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29714_Burning-Down-Grand-Prix-New-Jersey.html
The only change i made was +1 smash to smithereens -1 searing blood in sideboard. I was a bit skeptical about 4x maindeck searing blaze, as well as other minor things (4x flame rift in side seems a bit of a waste), but he is better than me so i didn't want to change too much.

Round 1 against Miracles : 0-2. i lose the first game because i have double searing blaze in hand with no targets, and lose the second game because he assembles top+counterbalance very quickly. Sideboard : -4 searing Blaze -2 lava spike +2 sulfuric vortex +4 flame rift. Blaze is an obvious cut, lava spike gets axed because 1 cost spells become irrelevant when he has the lock, even more if they are sorceries because you can't respond to him looking at 3 cards or putting top on his library.

Round 2 against B/G Pox : easy win 2-0. he has a lot of discard that can be problematic, and smallpox destroying lands can sometimes get you, but overall this deck doesn't have a way to close the game quickly (the only win condition i saw was bloodghast) and you are going to eventually kill him in topdeck mode. Sideboard: -4 searing blaze +4 flame rift

Round 3 against jeskai delver : 2-0. I win the first game managing to kill him the turn after he hardcasts batterskull (i killed two stoneforges before). Then the second game is the best of the day: i side out all my creatures(plus something else) because he plays swords to plowshares + bolt and side in 15 cards. At some point i cast ensnaring bridge, he can't counter it and is a bit worried. Then i cast a second bridge and he is very worried. then i cast my third bridge and i know he will never have 3 ways to kill artifacts in his deck so his only out is burning me out. In the end i have like 10 lands in play and have fun hardcasting fireblasts during his upkeep. He suicides himself with a bolt because he has no outs :)

Round 4 against Grixis with delver/deathrite/anglers: 2-1. These were very close games, because two times he has a fast start with delver and early angler, that beat me once but the other time i can fireblast him for lethal the turn before he kills me and he has no force of will. Side: +4 searing blood, -4 eidolon on the draw, -1 fireblast -3 lava spike on the play (i like shaving 1 fireblast when i don't have clear cards to cut because drawing two is often bad).

Round 5 i am the only one at 9 points that gets paired down so i can't draw in. the positive aspect is that if i win i will be on the play in all top8 matches. Against esper deathblade 2-1. Game 1 i mull to six keep a one lander and never draw a second land.... Game 2 i have a turn three win , game 3 at some point my hand is double searing blaze and double searing blood, i know he has batterskull in hand but no creatures in play. If he casts batterskull i can double searing blood the token, but this plan fails against one counterspell. i feel like i'm going to lose but fortunately he starts deploying other things (stoneforge, meddling mage naming price of progress, deathrite shaman) because he has no force of will and, since i am not playing anything, he feels like i have smash to smithereens in hand. Of course i kill all his small dorks and finally kill him. Sideboard: +2-3 searing blood + 3 smash to smithereens + 2 sulfuric vortex -some combination of creatures/fireblast/lava spikes depending on play or draw.

Quarterfinals against Jund 2-0. He is the only person i didn't see play so i don't know what i am facing. He starts with a badlands and i'm happy because it is probably jund. I get him to 3 relatively easy but then brick on a lot of drawsteps because he has liliana and i have searing blazes.Liliana eats my hand and he is almost able to turn the corner with deathrite shaman lifegain but i finally topdeck a burn spell to kill him. game 2 is even easier, the only relevant interaction is him abrupt decaying his own shaman to "counter" my searing blood. he never cast a goyf or hymn to tourach which are the only cards that can save him against burn. sideboard +4 flame rifts + some searing blood -Eidolons and guides

Semifinals against Grixis with delver deathrite angler AND pyromancer. 2-1. Very close games again, i guess the matchup against grixis is just like this because they can have a fast clock + soft counters (like RUG). Game 1 i flood out but fortunately he has no answers for my sulfuric vortex that wins the game. Game 2 i decide not to kill his turn 1 shaman with abolt because i have double searing blaze, and this costs me the game because he kept a one lander that manages to barely kill me in the end. Game 3 i mull to six, i have one lavamancer and when i scry i see grim lavamancer on top. i think about it for a long time and in the end i decide to keep in on top, reason being, if he kills my first lavamancer i am in bad shape because i mulled and he totally blanked one of my cards, while if he doesn't kill him having a second one is not great but not terrible either. In the last turns he is at 2 life with an army of pyromancer tokens and i still have both my lavamancers but only one card in the graveyard. i decide to attack with one lavamancer: if he blocks it i kill him with the other one because now i have two cards in the yard, but it is a risky play if he has a bolt or stifle (he played stifle). He just doesn't block and goes to one, fortunately a very clear sign that he doesn't have anything, then the following turn i draw mountain again, i am forced to make the same attack and win. Some people thought i shouldn't have done that play in the first place, because i was not in danger of dying immediately and could just wait to draw a burn spell, but i was afraid of him doing something like cast jitte equip it kill both your lavamancers and then win if you don't topdeck a burn spell immediately. In the end even if he has an answer i can just still topdeck a burn spell in a couple turns, and ultimately i was happy to have made that attack because after winning i looked at the top of my library and there were 3 lands in a row. sideboard same as round 4

Finals against miracles, the guy of the first round.
First game i feel favored even when he assembles countertop because i have price of progress rift bolt fireblast sulfuric vortex and he is at a low life total, making it unlikely that he can counter all my cards that have different costs and win. Well, in a couple turns i threaten to kill him three times but he just have 3 force of wills + 3 blue cards to pitch. Can't beat that shit.
Second game i resolve a vortex and feel pretty good again, but then draw only lands and he outraces me with two snapcaster mages XD


Well, it was a good event, i had fun and the meta was fantastic for burn, with a lot of greedy manabases delver decks and only one combo player with show and tell/hive mind, one death and taxes that can be difficult and 2-3 miracles.
I only lost against miracles and, while i think it was also due to variance, i will probably use some tech next time (don't play 4 blazes maindeck, add 1-2 barbarian rings to the manabase, maybe cut the flame rifts in sideboard for 4 exquisite firecrafts). I think firecraft really makes you favored in the matchup because they can't really do anything about it except discarding it with vendilion clique, and it's not easy at all for them to keep their life total higher than 4, or even 8 because you could reasonably draw 2 firecrafts if the game goes long.

[Jon]

I literally just cast bolts in the correct order then priced my opponent. There was one game where my decisions were super important, and I won because my opponent didnt know what my cards did. I dont want to sell the deck sort but it was pretty simple compared to my history with Landstill and Maverick.

[Eldariel]

I literally just cast bolts in the correct order then priced my opponent. There was one game where my decisions were super important, and I won because my opponent didnt know what my cards did. I dont want to sell the deck sort but it was pretty simple compared to my history with Landstill and Maverick.

Honestly, while every deck has some degree of complexity to them, Burn does deserve its "beginner deck" moniker. It wins a lot off randomly just casting spells and winning without meaningful interaction and unlike with most combo decks, single mistakes aren't that heavily punished and the deck doesn't want to mulligan if at all possible to avoid. In essence, it's a "simple combo deck", but it gets more complex vs. interactive opponents of course, and games are condensed enough that bad choices can get punished anyways. Still, experienced players gain a lot of percentages especially against Countertop, Tempo decks and creature-based combo (e.g. Elves), since those are the match-ups where sequencing and constantly calculating the race and picking burn targets becomes critical.

One question, do you feel Top is better than e.g. Cursed Scroll, Shrine of Burning Rage or in general, any singleton artifact that would directly contribute to your opponent's demise? I can appreciate manipulating the draws but it doesn't feel mana-efficient at all and while Top does have "1: Cycle" (if the game is ending before the next turn), I don't feel convinced it's as synergistic with the gameplan as some other potential options.

[optml]

Guys, try Exquisite Firecraft.

It's epic.

I know the pros / cons have been discussed to death on this thread, but I would guess that the people against the card haven't tested it.
It's amazing. Fact.

Last couple of weeks I've replaced my shushers in the sideboard with 2, then up to 3 and now looking for a 4th. They are never a dead draw, and although can clog up your opening hand you should have enough 1-2 mana stuff in your deck that it doesn't slow you down too much.

They make people who expect them become totally paranoid about letting any other counterable spells get through, for fear of uncounterable ones later. So you can make them play sub-optimally.

I've won games with firecrafts reliably against miracles counter-top locks, 4C Delver with a heavy counter-spell hand, when they let through a bolt (which brings them down to 4 life) so they can counter whatever you have next. Play Firecraft as your last spell(s) of the game, and push through.

I can't emphasise enough; I think it will take burn to the next level.

Buy them before they shoot up in price like Goblin Guides have. Yes; I think they are as game-changing for burn as freakin' Guides!

[optml]

I'm going to go a step further with my prediction.

I think Miracles will start bringing in Rest in Peace specifically to deal with Firecraft.

Mark my words...

[mistercakes]

just wondering, is this card that much better than urza’s rage?

[LeoCop 90]

Well, since the kicker cost is impossible to pay for, 4 damage vs 3 damage is much more important than instant vs sorcery.
Also i wouldn't expect firecraft to raise in price because it is not particularly good in modern burn, where it really needed to be instant speed to be fantastic against splinter twin.

[Jon]

Honestly, while every deck has some degree of complexity to them, Burn does deserve its "beginner deck" moniker. It wins a lot off randomly just casting spells and winning without meaningful interaction and unlike with most combo decks, single mistakes aren't that heavily punished and the deck doesn't want to mulligan if at all possible to avoid. In essence, it's a "simple combo deck", but it gets more complex vs. interactive opponents of course, and games are condensed enough that bad choices can get punished anyways. Still, experienced players gain a lot of percentages especially against Countertop, Tempo decks and creature-based combo (e.g. Elves), since those are the match-ups where sequencing and constantly calculating the race and picking burn targets becomes critical.

One question, do you feel Top is better than e.g. Cursed Scroll, Shrine of Burning Rage or in general, any singleton artifact that would directly contribute to your opponent's demise? I can appreciate manipulating the draws but it doesn't feel mana-efficient at all and while Top does have "1: Cycle" (if the game is ending before the next turn), I don't feel convinced it's as synergistic with the gameplan as some other potential options.


I like top a lot.



I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[Ultrab77]

I like loading up on Searing Blaze and Searing Blood. The Searing effects really help shore up a great deal of match-ups. I'd also suggest running Exquisite Firecraft For Miracles.

I'm curious what everyone is doing for Omni-tell. Are there any cards that seriously improve this match-up, or is it worth focusing the sideboard on the rest of the field?

Hi,

I'm currently using

2 Searing Blood
4 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus

vs Omni-Tell I board in the bridges and pillars but most of the time it's hopeless.

Any other guess?

[LeoCop 90]

You need 2-3 smash to smithereens against equipments. the fact is, the sideboard of burn cannot cover all problems because we don't have versatile answers (counterspells, discard) nor deck manipulation that let us play things as 2 of and reliably see them. So we have to play at least 3 of and decide to not prepare at all for some matchups. If you know the metagame this is easier. In an unknown metagame i think is mandatory to play:
- 3 sulfuric vortex between main and side (just too good against some decks like miracles, equipments, anything that doesn't easily answer enchantments)
- at least 6 searing effects between main and side. What is supposed to do an opponent with delver, deathrite shaman, stoneforge mystic, young pyromancer (not to mention tribal decks and death and taxes) .... when you just can kill all their creatures while burning their face? I am actually a fan of playing 8 searing effects.
- 3 smash to smithereens: equipments can be a problem, chalice of the void has to be destroyed.

I would also play ensnaring bridge that is good against sneak and show, reanimator, rug and uwr delver + random decks. i think pyrostatic pillar can be avoided because storm and omnitell shouldn't be that popular and anyway you have eidolon maindeck. Then you have to choose if you want grave hate or something that makes miracles easier. Nowadays i would always choose 4 firecraft over grave hate.... in the end, reanimator will always be horrible even post sideboard.

[Brael]

Guys, try Exquisite Firecraft.

It's epic.

I know the pros / cons have been discussed to death on this thread, but I would guess that the people against the card haven't tested it.
It's amazing. Fact.

Last couple of weeks I've replaced my shushers in the sideboard with 2, then up to 3 and now looking for a 4th. They are never a dead draw, and although can clog up your opening hand you should have enough 1-2 mana stuff in your deck that it doesn't slow you down too much.

They make people who expect them become totally paranoid about letting any other counterable spells get through, for fear of uncounterable ones later. So you can make them play sub-optimally.

I've won games with firecrafts reliably against miracles counter-top locks, 4C Delver with a heavy counter-spell hand, when they let through a bolt (which brings them down to 4 life) so they can counter whatever you have next. Play Firecraft as your last spell(s) of the game, and push through.

I can't emphasise enough; I think it will take burn to the next level.

Buy them before they shoot up in price like Goblin Guides have. Yes; I think they are as game-changing for burn as freakin' Guides!

I don't think they'll go up, there's just not enough demand especially after Standard rotates but you're right that they're good. I too replaced my Shusher's with them. Because of being uncounterable they are in many ways more scary than Fireblast is.

Also, with Firecraft there's always the chance of living the dream which I've pulled off once. I cast Firecraft with 1 spell in the graveyard, my opponent pitches a card to FoW it, and in response I cast Lightning Bolt to hit them for 3 and turn on Spell Mastery fizzling the FoW. Grim Lavamancer is good for setting up that particular trap.

[SecondSunrise]

I am now starting to play a bit more Legacy again and am thrilled to try out most of these "new" ideas for the deck. I did not like Barbarian Ring before, but as a 1-of it might be okay. Furthermore, I have been playing 10-9 (fetches-mountains) for a while now, I think I will try 10-8-1 now and see how it goes. 9-9-1 might be the better split, but this feeds Lavamancer and Ring a bit better, serves as pseudo flood protection and can help to turn on late Searing Blazes.

The Divining Top seems like a cool idea, do you think the 20th land is needed to play it, or can we get away with still running 19?

[Jon]

I am now starting to play a bit more Legacy again and am thrilled to try out most of these "new" ideas for the deck. I did not like Barbarian Ring before, but as a 1-of it might be okay. Furthermore, I have been playing 10-9 (fetches-mountains) for a while now, I think I will try 10-8-1 now and see how it goes. 9-9-1 might be the better split, but this feeds Lavamancer and Ring a bit better, serves as pseudo flood protection and can help to turn on late Searing Blazes.

The Divining Top seems like a cool idea, do you think the 20th land is needed to play it, or can we get away with still running 19?

Idk, I liked it , I went 5-2 at that PiQ and then 3-1 at our last local only losing to the rando D&T guy with Firewalker in the board and drew it game 2/3z.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[Syntex]

So guys I've decided to pick up burn and I have a few thoughts on the deck that may or may not have been discussed. I looked a few pages back and didn't see anything regarding this topic though.

First thing, thoughts about 2 mutagenic growth in the mainboard?

I saw Cedric Phillips play Sullivans Modern Zoo list which runs 2 mutagenic main and 3 gut shot sideboard. Now these were so many times he would blow out his opponent who would try and bolt a swiftspear/eidolon/guide while he was tapped out only to counter the bolt by pumping his guy and get in for even more damage. With swiftspear this becomes a 3 damage burn spell due to the prowess trigger so it fits and also gives greedy players who wait for the Goblin Guide trigger to resolve before using removal. Obviously this does nothing vs StP or generic removal like Abrupt Decay but I could see it being an unexpected play vs a lot of decks.

Secondly I wanted to ask your guys thoughts on 20 basics in the deck vs playing with fetches. This idea came from the math some people did regarding deck thinning saying that the life loss will lose you more games than drawing one extra land. I wanted to get your thoughts about it as there are only a few select cards that benefit from fetches in this archtype. I am also aware by playing that many basics you probably wont be playing Grim Lavamancer or barbarian ring which is okay. Also while it does limit your searing blaze landfall trigger to your turn only I feel like the card is still very playable. Also it does narrow down the sideboard options since we don't have the ability to manafix for another color if we want.

Side note: I have all the fetches to play if need be so the idea of 20 basics isn't coming from a budget perspective, just wanted to point that out.

So what are your guys thoughts on those 2 ideas? I know both are situational to the meta and if lavamancer is a good call or paying 2 life to pump your guy is worth it(or if a lot of StP are running around at the time as well).

[Speedbump]

I am now starting to play a bit more Legacy again and am thrilled to try out most of these "new" ideas for the deck. I did not like Barbarian Ring before, but as a 1-of it might be okay. Furthermore, I have been playing 10-9 (fetches-mountains) for a while now, I think I will try 10-8-1 now and see how it goes. 9-9-1 might be the better split, but this feeds Lavamancer and Ring a bit better, serves as pseudo flood protection and can help to turn on late Searing Blazes.

The Divining Top seems like a cool idea, do you think the 20th land is needed to play it, or can we get away with still running 19?I've been running 9/9/1 for quite a while, and it seems like a decent enough mana base. With Top acting as that pseudo 20th land, as well as a decent consistency tool in itself, I don't feel like the mana curve of Burn needs more than around 19.5 lands.

[Jon]

I'd never play burn without fetches. You need them for seering blaze. Also, I'm still a fan of more then 1 Ring.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[Syntex]

I'd never play burn without fetches. You need them for seering blaze. Also, I'm still a fan of more then 1 Ring.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Say you are in a combo meta and you would play the searing blaze in the board. Is the instant speed searing blaze worth the life loss?

[Speedbump]

Say you are in a combo meta and you would play the searing blaze in the board. Is the instant speed searing blaze worth the life loss?If the Combo percentage is less than 25%, then definitely. There'll be a meta push towards tempo decks and fair blue decks when a significant percentage of the metagame turns to Combo.

If the Combo percentage is 30% upwards, then Burn isn't the correct deck to be playing in that meta, and no amount of tailoring with the deck will improve the poor match-up it has against quick Combo.

[optml]

If the Combo percentage is less than 25%, then definitely. There'll be a meta push towards tempo decks and fair blue decks when a significant percentage of the metagame turns to Combo.

If the Combo percentage is 30% upwards, then Burn isn't the correct deck to be playing in that meta, and no amount of tailoring with the deck will improve the poor match-up it has against quick Combo.

What if it's between 25% and 30%?

Joking aside, I agree that assessing the Meta is important (not sure about the strict percentages though).
If you're expecting to play 8 Show and Tell decks in a row, Burn is not the right choice.

[Krimson Viper]

Seeing the results over this weekend, what time of meta should we be expecting at GP Tacoma? BGx decks made a solid come back, so I do expect that deck to be played as well as a meta targeting it. Could anyone give a quick run down of what to expect?

[Zoomer3989]

What's the general consensus on the creature line-up between Grim Lavamancer and Monastery Swiftspear? I feel like maining 4 Grims might be too many, but I think if you want Swiftspear, you should just play 4 as well and maindeck 4 Searing Blaze to help her through.

Also, does anyone have any updated testing with Exquisite Firecraft?

[Krimson Viper]

Sweet, we made it to the DTB. Also, curses, we made it to DTB, lol.


What's the general consensus on the creature line-up between Grim Lavamancer and Monastery Swiftspear? I feel like maining 4 Grims might be too many, but I think if you want Swiftspear, you should just play 4 as well and maindeck 4 Searing Blaze to help her through.

Also, does anyone have any updated testing with Exquisite Firecraft?

Definitely don't want to put Grim to four. Running into multiples can be a bad thing with no can trips to really fill it. Swiftspear definitely does need ways to get through and the Searing effects enable that, but the deck is already getting tightly fit. Call me crazy, but just running three Swiftspears and four Searing effects main sounds like a solid plan. Everyone is running creatures right now.

As for Firecraft, I still haven't run the deck since I was last reporting. I have Shardless most finished and have been piloting that deck to serious failure, lol. Burn will be my deck to run while I'm at the GP, but I'm having fun with Shardless until then.

[Jon]

Swift spear is dumpster, it was never on the drawing board at any time for burn in my lists.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[slave]

Has burn become a genuine threat these days, or is it still comparable to a few years ago when it could just simply be raced for the win?

I ask, cos I've noticed the last few times I've played against Burn, it's clock seems to have gotten faster.:confused:

[Zombie]

Has burn become a genuine threat these days, or is it still comparable to a few years ago when it could just simply be raced for the win?

I ask, cos I've noticed the last few times I've played against Burn, it's clock seems to have gotten faster.:confused:

More than that, Burn has turned from a pile of cards into an actual deck. It has some built-in resistance to combo and enough creatures to try its hand at playing Sligh in a pinch, plus Searing Blood and Searing Blaze which help in providing board control without sacrificing the bolt to the face approach. Then you get Exquisite Firecraft for killing bigger things and just forcing damage through countermagic in blue matchups, and the list goes on. Burn's just scored a whole bunch of really solid new prints that give it the ability to play a more multifaceted game.

[TooOld4Magic]

I have been thinking of sideboard ideas for GP Seattle if I end up running Burn, so I went to the data. I looked at the top performing lists from page 1 of this thread for the years 2014-2015, and calculated the most common sideboard cards.
69 copies of Smash to Smithereens
45 copies of Ensnaring Bridge
43 copies of red elemental blast
34 copies of relic of progenitus
33 copies of mindbreak trap
32 copies of pyroblast
29 copies of searing blood
28 copies of vexing shusher
24 copies of pyrostatic pillar
23 copies of sulfuric vortex
15 copies of grafdigger’s cage
15 copies of searing blaze
13 copies of faerie macabre
12 copies of destructive revelry
Every other card occurred less than 10 times and I’m too lazy to include ‘em.

I was at work, so I didn’t get into as much detail as running what the mean number of copies of each of these was. Artifact destruction would have been #1, if you combine Smash and Destructive. Most decks ran 3-4 Smash to Smithereens; the 3 decks that ran 1 Taiga each ran 4 of destructive revelries. Notably REB and Pyroblast would have been #2 most common cards if counted together. It makes sense to run a 2-2 or 1-2 split so they don’t all get therapied away. Pyrostatic pillar was usually a 2 of. Sulfuric vortex was frequently a 1 of.

When I looked at numbers just for 2015, these were the results

23 copies of Smash to Smithereens
12 copies of Destructive Revelry
(35 total Smash effects)

15 copies of Pyroblast
18 copies of red elemental blast
(33 total Blast effects)

12 copies of Searing Blaze
12 Copies of Searing Blood
(24 total Searing effects)

22 copies of Ensnaring Bridge
12 copies of Pyrostatic Pillar
11 copies of Sulfuric Vortex
8 copies of Relic of Progenitus
7 copies of Exquisite Firecraft
6 copies of Tormod’s crypt
5 copies of Grim Lavamancer
5 copies of Vexing Shusher
3 copies of Mindbreak Trap
2 copies of Skullcrack
1 copy of Bonfire of the Damned
1 copy of Guerrilla tactics

[Eldariel]

More than that, Burn has turned from a pile of cards into an actual deck. It has some built-in resistance to combo and enough creatures to try its hand at playing Sligh in a pinch, plus Searing Blood and Searing Blaze which help in providing board control without sacrificing the bolt to the face approach. Then you get Exquisite Firecraft for killing bigger things and just forcing damage through countermagic in blue matchups, and the list goes on. Burn's just scored a whole bunch of really solid new prints that give it the ability to play a more multifaceted game.

Current Burn is probably closer to the RDW-style decks of the old than the single-minded Burn-decks we used to have in Legacy. The same shell encompasses two gameplans (speed kill & board control) which is the primary difficulty in building it; the changed face of Legacy metagame is a major contributor to making this desirable (the ability to burn creatures is actually useful again!). The deck is also much more resilient and disruptive than it used to be.


The first component is of course the speed kill: reducing enemy's life total from 20 to 0. However, as Burn is never the fastest deck in the metagame and most Legacy-decks can interact with spells on some level, this would of course just be a niche deck with no real reason to play it other than simpleness or familiarity. Goblin Guide & Monastery Swiftspear of course contributed greatly to making this plan more consistently fast and making turn 3 kills happen with greater frequency, but here the deck building restrictions come in: how much can you afford to really focus on speed when you're far from the best "Kill enemy before they can do anything"-deck in the format. Each card plays to each component in various ways and e.g. full 8 Guides and Swiftspears can be problematic far as fitting all the other components goes.

The second component is thus disruption. While burn can't easily run countermagic, there's a number of Burn cards that enable the deck to interact with the opponent on various layers. The most important addition is probably Eidolon of the Great Revel, which gives Burn enough of a chance vs. Storm decks to make the match-up worth playing out. It's also a very punishing card in Legacy in general thanks to the format being very condensed in terms of manacurve and it being a 2/2 to boot; while Burn suffers of it itself, it tends to be the deck best poised to take advantage of the opponent having a low life total. Price of Progress is the other ageless card that of course flourishes in an environment like Legacy while simultaneously punishing opponents that want a lot of lands in play but being good enough if they have two (but can't kill creatures, which is actually a downside in modern Burn). Then there's of course Sulfuric Vortex which shuts down the easiest efficient anti-burn strategy of "negate the burn spells by gaining life in an efficient manner" while simultaneously creating an unblockable clock. Searing Blaze and Searing Blood, as stated, of course skew races vs. creature decks and present us with the option of using removal without hurting the clock.

The third component is thus redundancy/midgame plan. As "fair" opponents (which tend to make up a majority of any given metagame) tend to have countermagic (possibly Countertop too), discard, lifegain or artifact disruption (Chalice, Spheres, etc.), the straightforward plan of "on first 3 turns, play 3 lands, cast 6 bolts + Fireblast, opponent at -2 with me at 0 cards" is generally insufficient to actually kill anyone nowadays. Currently Burn has a slew of wonderful tools to keep the pressure on the opponent's life total without giving up too much speed; creatures are the most obvious one with Goblin Guide, Eidolon of the Great Revel and Monastery Swiftspear providing two that often actually speed up the clock while also coming in for more if enemy can't clog up the board. Other creatures such as Grim Lavamancer also serve this function but at the cost of speed/mana efficiency, generally with other functions too though. Then there's Barbarian Ring, which is a great source of colorless, uncounterable damage for the last few points through a counterwall (after trading cards to reach Threshold) that crucially allows adding more "spells" to the manabase giving you a higher Burn "spell" density than would normally be possible to achieve. They can't sacrifice for Fireblast though, and do have some dissynergy with Price of Progress - self-damage has become something you have to keep in mind with more and faster opposing creature-based strategies in the format though. There's Sulfuric Vortex which is a wonderful unblockable, unstoppable damage source that also shuts down the whole lifegain counterstrategy spectrum. Whenever I've tested various Burn-lists, Sulfuric Vortex has always tended to be my MVP. Finally, the various artifacts such as Sensei's Divining Top, Cursed Scroll, Shrine of the Burning Rage, etc. tend to fall under this category with various upsides and downsides - they aren't fast but they're quite hard to deal with (few enemies have artifact removal available vs. singletons in Burn) and generally help close the game out through various protections.

The final component is of course the other actual gameplan: board control gameplan in match-ups where Burn takes the control role. This works vs. decks that rely on their creatures to win and tend to be faster than Burn. Such decks would include Elves, various Painter-strategies, Infect/Green Pump-strategies and occasionally Goblins. This strategy can make use of most of Burn's cards but unfortunately not all of them can target creatures and most of the damage-wise efficient Burn spells tend to be Sorceries. Here we generally have some sweepers coming in too (Volcanic Fallout, Rolling Earthquake, Anger of the Gods, etc.), preferably ones that double as damage spells and can also be used to hedge vs. slower disruptive creature decks like Delver/Merfolk/Maverick.

Then you have the sideboard (touched on in various places already), which mostly switches your role/cards to better suit what you're doing in any given match-up and covers for the match-ups where you just play around individual cards. E.g. Show and Tell is going to generally be faster than you so you want some tools to drop them down below your speed (unfortunately costing you speed in the process) or some trumps to negate their gameplan (Ashen Rider being a common one). Same applies to stuff like Reanimator, Dredge, Lands, Belcher, etc. Then there's also cards that are really problematic unless you remove them somehow or have tools to get around them, such as Chalice, Counterbalance, Trinisphere, Leyline of Sanctity, etc. which you generally want some tools to get around/through in the board (depending on what exactly you expect to see).


Of course, building the deck is mostly about balancing these various aspects - what kinds of threats do you expect to have to push damage through? Which disruption do you expect to need the most of? How fast vs. resilient can you afford to be, precisely? How large a portion of your deck needs to contribute to the board control gameplan? How many reactive sideboard cards can you afford and do you need for each match-up, and are there any match-ups you plain intend to give up? The cardpool has various broad disruption cards that enable preparing for basically anything and the 15 cards goes surprisingly far but how much do you invest in tuning your gameplan for each match vs. fighting the opponents? Certainly, there are plenty of paths to pick and the deck is actually quite interesting to build (and even play) nowadays so I think that's certainly a step up from where it's been for some years.

All this also forces one to question some of the fundamental assumptions about the deck; if the gameplan is no longer to single-mindedly kill the opponent as fast as possible, is Lava Spike still the best card for the slot for the format at large? How many and which Bolts do we want? How many Prices of Progress and Fireblasts should be in the main? How many 1-drop creatures to run, and what mix? How many lands and what mix; do we always want to hit 3 mana on turn 3 or can we afford to wait? How many Barbarian Rings does one want/can one afford while still casting Fireblast sufficiently reliably? What mulligan rate is acceptable and do we have a better chance to win manaflooded or manascrewed? How many maindeck anti-creature cards can one afford, and which ones?

[jrsthethird]

I'm planning on trying out Burn at my LGS this week. I only played there once before, so I have an idea of the meta. It's pretty competitive, and I know many folks have multiple decks so the meta may change. Only thing I do know is that both of the Burn players are set on Burn, so I can expect a decent chance of a mirror.

2x Burn (1 optimized list, 1 budget minus Guides/Chain Lightning)
2x Miracles
2x Reanimator (UB and UBg)
Enchantress
Stax
Nic Fit
Canadian Thresh
Lands
GWb Maverick (I think)
Death and Taxes (maybe 2x, I'm forgetting one person)
Homebrew Grixis with 8x Surgical effects

I'm playing a list close to Jon's 16th place at SCG Atlanta: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=92685

(All changes due to card availability)

-2 Goblin Guide
-3 Arid Mesa
-3 Scalding Tarn
-1 Top
+2 Swiftspear
+4 Bloodstained Mire
+2 Mountain
+1 Abbot of Keral Keep (Is this guy even good here? Top doesn't affect the board immediately when played either, right? Let's try a one-of!)

I came up with this sideboard:

3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Sulfur Elemental
4 Pyroblast
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Smash to Smithereens

I don't have Firecrafts, so a 4th Barbarian Ring and Pyroblast can come in against the Miracles decks, and I took out a Pillar from Jon's list for a Sulfur Elemental against D&T. Finally a Relic for the last Firecraft because of the Reanimator decks. Thoughts based on that meta?

[LeoCop 90]

All this also forces one to question some of the fundamental assumptions about the deck; if the gameplan is no longer to single-mindedly kill the opponent as fast as possible, is Lava Spike still the best card for the slot for the format at large? How many and which Bolts do we want? How many Prices of Progress and Fireblasts should be in the main? How many 1-drop creatures to run, and what mix? How many lands and what mix; do we always want to hit 3 mana on turn 3 or can we afford to wait? How many Barbarian Rings does one want/can one afford while still casting Fireblast sufficiently reliably? What mulligan rate is acceptable and do we have a better chance to win manaflooded or manascrewed? How many maindeck anti-creature cards can one afford, and which ones?

Great post, Eldariel. This last part is what interests me the most because i actually asked myself all of these questions when building my deck last time i played burn (except in the end i just ran last patrick sullivan's list to cancel doubts).

It is really worth it to run 4 fireblast? yes, it is the card that enables many turn 3 kills, but it is also bad to see in multiples. i always felt like 3 is the right number but just ran 4 because it seemed to me like an untouchable card.
4 price of progress is probably still the right number.... it will lose you the game against fringe/budget decks or opponents who are able to fetch all basic lands, but overall it is just too good against a too wide percentage of the field. Also, i would feel like i am wasting sideboard slots if i played 3 prices main and 1 side.
Barbarian ring looks like an excellent way to prevent flooding, but has problems with fireblast and price of progress and, most importantly, opens the deck to wasteland.I cannot stress this anymore, you don't want to lose to wasteland, having your lands destroyed is a huge problem against daze/spell pierce. I could see running one , especially if i am cutting a fireblast, but i wouldn't run more maindeck (unless you want more than 20 lands).

And the most important matter for me right now : the role of lava spike in the deck. I played a lot of modern burn, and appreciated the "sligh" aspect of the deck, with a creature base of 4 guides, 4 swiftspears, 4 eidolon, 2-3 lavamancers. The common opinion is that burn spells available in legacy make swiftspear worthless and that is better to just run a "pure" burn deck. I am starting to think this is wrong, because as eldariel said, the ability to switch gears and play different gameplans is not to underestimate. I would never think of cutting chain lightning, but maybe lava spike is just worse than swiftspear. Running more creatures, you have slightly worse topdecks in midgame, but you also ensure to have a high impact one drop almost always. Next time i play burn, i will probably try adding 4 monks cutting 1 fireblast, 1 lavamancer (from 3 to 2), and 2 lava spikes.

[echofish]

Hmm... Burn in "Decks to Beat" now?

[Zoomer3989]

Burn
Trent Avera
11th Place at StarCityGames.com Premier IQ on 10/31/2015

Creatures (14)
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Lands (20)
6 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills

Spells (26)
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Smash to Smithereens
4 Exquisite Firecraft

The Lava Spike/Barbarian Ring numbers might be wonky, but I think the rest of this list might have merit

[jrsthethird]

Played in the local tonight and went 2-2. I played

9 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Barbarian Ring

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Goblin Guide
2 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Abbot of Keral Keep

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex

Sideboard:

4 Pyroblast
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Sulfur Elemental

14 people showed up, the meta was

Burn (R/g splash)
Merfolk
Elves
Grixis 8-Surgical Homebrew
Mentor Miracles
Goblins (maybe?)
ANT
Death & Taxes
Death & Taxes (W/r splash)
Shardless BUG
Enchantress
Bant Reliquary?
2 others I'm not sure of

I expected some Reanimator but didn't see any fatties at any tables all day.

Round 1 - Merfolk

I kept 1-landers both games, but unfortunately it took me until turn 4 or 5 to get another land either game. My first round of Burn in a tournament was not very satisfying.

0-2 (0-1)

Round 2 - Enchantress (G/W)

Game 1 - I don't know what he's on, but he drops a Leyline of Sanctity after drawing his hand. I'm not happy. lol. I do get some dudes down and drop an Eidolon, while laughing about the fact that he runs a single Leyline in his main and he happened to draw it. He's able to drop a Solitary around 10 life and stabilize.

SB - -4 Spike, -3 POP; +2 Cage, +2 Pillar, +3 Bridge

Game 2 - No Leyline! I drop a Swiftspear and a Cage turn 2, with Pillar turn 3. He untaps, gets himself down to 4 life before casting Solitary, with the cast trigger putting him at 2. I'm unable to punch through it and end up losing to Emrakul before I could find a Bridge.

0-2 (0-2)

Round 3 - Death and Taxes (mono-W)

Game 1 - He plays a Thalia and tries to Port-lock me after casting Mom. I have a couple extra lands in my hand, and Mom is still sick, so I respond by Fireblasting Thalia during my upkeep. He ends up having Mom, Revoker, and Flickerwisp on board against my Swiftspear. We're trading damage a bit, but a Barbarian Ring comes through to kill the Mom so I can handle his board. He has too many land and 2 Ports aren't enough to keep me down.

SB - -4 Spike; +1 Sulfur, +3 Bridge

Game 2 - I keep a one-lander with my single Sulfur Elemental in hand. He leads with Vial, then a Mom and Thalia. I manage to draw lands and get the Elemental down turn 3. I end the game soon after with Chain, Bolt, Blast.

2-0 (1-2)

Round 4 - Elves

Game 1 - I pressure him early with Guide and Swiftspear, using my Burn to clear away annoying things like DRS, Ranger, and that stupid Insect. He has to chump with other guys and eventually I overpower him.

SB - -3 POP, -4 Spike; +2 Pillar, +2 Cage, +3 Bridge

Game 2 - Turn 3 Hoof stomped me. Whatevs.

Game 3 - He mulls to 5, so I end up playing a more tempo role and using my Burn to keep him off mana. Eidolon comes down early, does some work, and a second one follows suit. He had a Cradle so I had to kill every dude and just win through combat and triggers.

2-1 (2-2)

I won a pack, took a Khans pack to try cracking a fetch, and ended up with a Trap Essence. But it was fun!

[Speedbump]

I've been doing quite well recently with Burn. Went 4-2 in the paper Legacy league I'm in (losing in the semi-final to Dredge (who won the league)), and went 5-0 in the Swiss portion of Jelly Jam. Bigwerdz went 3-2, to also make top-8 on Burn.

Burn Core
9 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Fireblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 3 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 2 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Exquisite Firecraft
SB: 2 Vexing Shusher

Sideboard (paper): +1 Barbarian Ring, +1 Searing Blood
Sideboard (Jelly Jam): +1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Pyrostatic Pillar

Legacy league match details aren't relevant, because the league started with Dig Through Time still legal (two games per fortnight). So, for the first 6 rounds, most decks were giving it the final hurrah. From memory, I think I went 1-1 against BURG Delver, won against MUD and Miracles (and got a concession), and lost to BUG Delver. Won against Infect in the QF, lost to Dredge in the SF. (Iona on turn 2 and 1 for games 2 and 3)

Jelly Jam match-ups as follows (will confirm R3/R4 match-up once decklists are announced):
R1 vs blubberpompnao (Lands) 2-1
R2 vs Bosque (Wr Death and Taxes) 2-1
R3 vs TheArchitect (Miracles) 2-0
R4 vs jrsthethird (GBW Deadguy) 2-0
R5 vs Dragonslayer90 (Miracles) 2-1

Lucksacked most of my way through this tournament, although I have been playing exceptionally well against Miracles over the last month or so, which has helped.

[tarmogoat]

Hello,
I am slowly getting into legacy and I mostly have staples for UW/UWR/RUG/BUG but can't play those colors because i have no duals* and no wastelands. So I tried playing a MonoU delver, but it just tries too much.

Then it hit me, I have a burn red in modern, and like 75%** of the deck is the same, so I figured this deck should be my first take on the format, while I slowly build into the other decks that I love: TES, Thopters, Jeskai Twin.
It also hit me that a friend used to lend me a MONORAIL (that's how we call mono red) deck to play legacy, and I remembered enjoying it a lot. It was during the dark days of TC/DTT, and this deck still felt awesome and got me many 3-1s and 4-0s through my Miracles, Landstill, UR/Jeskai/BUG/RUG Delvers, Shardless BUG and Jeskai/UR/RUG Stoneblade decks. I remember how I loved the look on the faces of opponents who salted all over the place after losing a game with their sophisticated and 'real' decks. I've been reading the last few days and apparently burn is real, very real nowadays.

Disclaimer:
*I actually have 1 Tundra.
** I didn't really do a statistic.

This is what I brewed from my memories of the deck, and the metagame shifts at my area:

CMC1: 18
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
2x Grim Lavamancer

CMC2: 16
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Searing Blaze
4x Pyrostatic Pillar
4x Price of Progress

CMC3: 3
3x Sulfuric Vortex

CMC6/Free: 4
4x Fireblast

Lands: 19
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Arid Mesa
8x Mountain
1x Barbarian Ring

Sideboard: 15
3x Relic of Progenitus
3x Smash to Smithereens
2x Searing Blood
3x Exquisite Firecraft
3x Volcanic Fallout
1x Sulfuric Vortex

I truly believe that with the printing of Exquisite Firecraft the MU against blue decks became slightly favored to burn, as with the combination of any resolved creature and firecraft/fireblast will seal the deal. Especially against delver variants, where pillar and eidolon go a really long way. Now, ticking up the blue matchups in legacy is huge, so my reasoning is that Volcanic Fallout will be a great addition to beat Delvers/D&Ts/Elves in a pseudo control early game, and midgame just steal the victory and run away. It can even be a blast against Monastery Miracles that are more popular every time I check. But especially against delvers. Especially against the new popular 4CDelvers. Let them pitch their cards to FOWs and bounce their lands to Dazes, for they will slow their board development, while we gain time to get to the uncounterable wipes and bombs.

I am really enthusiastic about playing burn again, as I really want to play legacy again and a lot.

[elconquistador1985]

I'm getting in to Legacy after playing Modern Burn for a while. I'm planning on going to a local SCG Game Night in Legacy later this month for my first Legacy tournament. It seems like I see more lists running Pyroblast/REB instead of Vexing Shusher, are they preferred over the Shusher? Would I be better off running Pyrostatic Pillars over something else in either the side or main? Has Flame Rift entirely disappeared these days? Thanks in advance for your advice.

This is what I am looking at right now. I have 4 Pillars, a third Lavamancer, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 4 REBs that I could put in.

Lands 20
12 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

CMC1 26
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer

CMC2 8
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Price of Progress

CMC Other 6
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Volcanic Fallout

[jrsthethird]

R4 vs jrsthethird (GBW Deadguy) 2-0

That was me. #shouldveplayedburn


I'm getting in to Legacy after playing Modern Burn for a while. I'm planning on going to a local SCG Game Night in Legacy later this month for my first Legacy tournament. It seems like I see more lists running Pyroblast/REB instead of Vexing Shusher, are they preferred over the Shusher? Would I be better off running Pyrostatic Pillars over something else in either the side or main? Has Flame Rift entirely disappeared these days? Thanks in advance for your advice.

Flame Rift was always a bad card, but when Burn was a very linear 20-0 deck, getting a guaranteed 4 damage out of one card was decent. Now that Burn has taken a more adaptive strategy, and Lava Spike is being reconsidered, Flame Rift is out of the question anymore.

I only started playing again the past few months, but it seems that Eidolon is really the backbone of the new shift in Burn strategy. With the format being decided mostly by CMC 3 or less spells Pillars function as Eidolons 5-x. Pyroblasts let us be more proactive, which is usually the way to go. The only time I think Shusher may be better than Blasts is against Counterbalance, but Blasts are still really good there. It's probably better to delay the lock and apply pressure than to rely on protecting a Shusher to get through the lock.

I just picked up the deck but it feels very natural to me. I'm a huge fan of tempo strategies and there is definitely space for burn to play a tempo role in some matchups, which I find intriguing.

[Clark Kant]

I don't understand why burn plays some of the subpar burn spells it plays when it could easily splash black for...

4 Bump in the Night
4 Tyrant's Choice

both of which are about as efficient (in terms of damage for mana) as anything burn plays.

By splashing black, burn could either drop some of the less efficient burn spells it plays to make room for Confidants as well, or it could forego playing creatures altogether thereby blanking opponent's removal and potential blockers.


Given that, I find it strange that hardly any burn decks splash black. Could someone please explain to me why not?

[Realize]

Burn players are shaving Lava Spikes. Why go into Black for bump? The ability to avoid wasteland and maximize the efficiency of PoP by playing only mountains is one of the great things about burn.

Because I'm mostly trying to make the pro tour, I don't get to play much Legacy. But I'm in PDX and GP SeaTac is coming up, so I got together 4-color Delver (only had to borrow the Underground Seas). But then DTT was banned, so I moved over to UR Delver. However, Delver is struggling against shardless and Jund (Lilliana decks in general) and isn't amazing against combo, so I decided to return to my old faithful burn. I really like what Exquisite Firecraft does for the miracles matchup.

After a lot of research I'm planning to play basically this list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/336642#online

The only changes I'm considering are 2 Grafdiggers in the board (shave some Pyrostatic Pillars) and maybe swap some Vortex into the main for some PoP.

[jrsthethird]

Burn players are shaving Lava Spikes. Why go into Black for bump? The ability to avoid wasteland and maximize the efficiency of PoP by playing only mountains is one of the great things about burn.

Honestly I think the best thing we can do with a black splash is probably either Blightning or Kolaghan's Command, and both are too slow at 3 mana.

When thinking of splashes, we need to consider things that red can't do, not just thinking of cards that do things marginally better than what red does already. That's what makes a green splash for Destructive Revelry attractive; namely dealing with enchantments. This doesn't even seem like a popular choice right now either, due to the lack of prevalence of impactful enchantments. Simplifying the mana base and focusing on a streamlined strategy is going to give us an ultimately faster clock in the long run than any edge we get from an extra damage, conditional Edict, or a ridiculous 6-mana flashback.


After a lot of research I'm planning to play basically this list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/336642#online

The only changes I'm considering are 2 Grafdiggers in the board (shave some Pyrostatic Pillars) and maybe swap some Vortex into the main for some PoP.

I really like the Pillar; have you considered cutting 1 Smash and 1 Pillar instead?

[Speedbump]

That was me. #shouldveplayedburnHaha, that probably would have worked well for you, as I haven't played a Burn mirror in about a year or so. (It's something I need to practise a fair amount though, because it's increasing in meta percentage.) I think I would probably be slightly favoured if we were using the decklists posted, because I can lean on the late-game slightly better than you can. I'd still find a way to punt the game though. ;)


I'm getting in to Legacy after playing Modern Burn for a while. I'm planning on going to a local SCG Game Night in Legacy later this month for my first Legacy tournament. It seems like I see more lists running Pyroblast/REB instead of Vexing Shusher, are they preferred over the Shusher? Would I be better off running Pyrostatic Pillars over something else in either the side or main? Has Flame Rift entirely disappeared these days? Thanks in advance for your advice.

This is what I am looking at right now. I have 4 Pillars, a third Lavamancer, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 4 REBs that I could put in.

Lands 20
12 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

CMC1 26
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer

CMC2 8
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Price of Progress

CMC Other 6
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Volcanic FalloutI think the first thing you should do is replace the Lava Spike with Searing Blaze, as you need to have enough removal to allow your creatures to punch through. This is slightly more important for Swiftspear builds than non-Swiftspear builds, as the Aggro plan has more emphasis.

With that change, you now have 4 free slots in the sideboard. I would put 2 Pyrostatic Pillar as a catch-all against Storm decks and Elves decks, and at least 2 Exquisite Firecraft against fair Blue decks. I personally like 3 Exquisite Firecraft, though that depends on the Miracles concentration in the meta.

[Volt]

Hi all. Been out of the game for a few years, but I've been persuaded to attend Seattle this weekend. Since I don't have much to work with in terms of cards, I'm going to take Fetchless Burn. Seems to me the main (only?) reasons to run fetches are: 1) Grim Lavamancer, 2) Searing Blaze, and 3) Sensei's Divining Top. I don't accept "deck thinning" as an answer. Lavamancer seems to have fallen out of favor somewhat, with plenty of T8 Burn builds not running them at all, even with fetchlands. Top is really interesting, and it obviously gives you a bit more staying power for games that go long. Seems like Searing Blood quite ably replaces Searing Blaze.

Here's the list I'm currently thinking of running. I'd love any comments/suggestions/observations about the list or the comments and assumptions I made above. I do actually have 4 Wooded Foothill, 4 Bloodstained Mire, and a Top. No Lavamancers at the moment, but I'm sure I could buy or borrow a couple if someone talks me into running them.

20 mountain

4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
2 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blood

2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Sideboard:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Lava Spike
3 Pyroblast
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Volcanic Fallout

[Jon]

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[optml]

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.

I don't think that swiftspear is terrible - if you cast a single spell on a turn, she's much better than goblin guide (+1 toughness, no land giving) and goblin guide is a machine. Mountain, guide, go, is my favourite start with burn, and often gets 6-8 damage himself before getting killed. I don't know if going all the way up to 4 swifty's is correct, but for the nay-sayer's if you haven't tried her, definitely give her a couple of slots.

Treat yourself, to a little spear-love.

[Speedbump]

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.I don't think that Monastery Swiftspear is terrible at all. I just find that my play style with Burn suits a more controlling decklist, which is rewarded by my meta being fair blue decks and fair creature-based decks. I'd never leave home without 3 Grim Lavamancers in my 75, however.

At some point, I'll start testing Monastery Swiftspear over Lava Spike, as I'm finding the latter less exciting the longer I play this deck

[kuroko16]

guys in wich matchup you side in ensnaring bridge? Sneak and Show? elves? delver decks?

[Speedbump]

guys in wich matchup you side in ensnaring bridge? Sneak and Show? elves? delver decks?Mainly Sneak and Show, and definitely not Delver.

Elves is a coin-flip on that call, although I prefer more removal than something that loses to Reclamation Sage.

[jrsthethird]

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.

I was with you until I played a 2/2 split with Guide due to availability. While cutting Guides for Spears is not correct by any means, Swiftspear does have merit. I saw her more than I saw Guide during my local, and she did some work. I think she might be better than Lava Spike.


Hi all. Been out of the game for a few years, but I've been persuaded to attend Seattle this weekend. Since I don't have much to work with in terms of cards, I'm going to take Fetchless Burn. Seems to me the main (only?) reasons to run fetches are: 1) Grim Lavamancer, 2) Searing Blaze, and 3) Sensei's Divining Top. I don't accept "deck thinning" as an answer. Lavamancer seems to have fallen out of favor somewhat, with plenty of T8 Burn builds not running them at all, even with fetchlands. Top is really interesting, and it obviously gives you a bit more staying power for games that go long. Seems like Searing Blood quite ably replaces Searing Blaze.

4) Barbarian Ring

Although not running fetches definitely makes enemy DRS's worse (even though they're still stupid against us with the :g: activation).


guys in wich matchup you side in ensnaring bridge? Sneak and Show? elves? delver decks?

Any combo decks with the potential to shit out big dumb guys. Show and Tell, Natural Order, Reliquary decks, Elves, Enchantress, Reanimator. Definitely not Delver; we want something like Pillar or Lavamancer against them.

Even if they can tutor up a Reclamation Sage to blow up our Bridge, that's a tutor they could have spent on a Hoof or combo piece. If Elves hasn't killed us by the time we drop a turn 3 or 4 Bridge, it buys enough time for us to either disrupt their plan or win. Not to mention Cage shuts off GSZ so if we have that they have to draw it the hard way.

My sideboard against Elves was -4 Spike, -3 POP; +3 Bridge, +2 Cage, +2 Pillar. Probably should have been -3 Spike, -4 POP, since Elves only runs Cradle and Dryad Arbor, maybe Pendelhaven or a splash dual. They will avoid any of them against us except for Cradle, so we're looking at 2, maybe 4 to the dome, max. OTOH, we have 5 cards in the sideboard that severely disrupt their plan and two more that turn their plan into a reverse clock. Interacting with their deck is so much better than just going to the face.

Elves can untap at 3 life on turn 4 and win out of nowhere. We need to respect that.

[Zombie]

Even if they can tutor up a Reclamation Sage to blow up our Bridge, that's a tutor they could have spent on a Hoof or combo piece. If Elves hasn't killed us by the time we drop a turn 3 or 4 Bridge, it buys enough time for us to either disrupt their plan or win. Not to mention Cage shuts off GSZ so if we have that they have to draw it the hard way.

My sideboard against Elves was -4 Spike, -3 POP; +3 Bridge, +2 Cage, +2 Pillar. Probably should have been -3 Spike, -4 POP, since Elves only runs Cradle and Dryad Arbor, maybe Pendelhaven or a splash dual. They will avoid any of them against us except for Cradle, so we're looking at 2, maybe 4 to the dome, max. OTOH, we have 5 cards in the sideboard that severely disrupt their plan and two more that turn their plan into a reverse clock. Interacting with their deck is so much better than just going to the face.

Elves can untap at 3 life on turn 4 and win out of nowhere. We need to respect that.

Quirion Ranger can also return duals and Arbors back to hand, which nerfs PoP even more. Postboard you're likely to see Decays. Takes out all manner of nuisances given most of your hate is cheap permanents.

[bigwerdz]

I mostly just bring bridges in against SnS, reanimator, lands, and merfolk. Alot of times they just can't beat a t3 or t4 bridge and typically they don't expect it.

[Krimson Viper]

Using Bridge against Reanimator is a joke when Iona is on the board and they named red. Reanimator is truly a deck you shouldn't even bother trying to fix and just hit it with residual hate from everything else.

[Jon]

Using Bridge against Reanimator is a joke when Iona is on the board and they named red. Reanimator is truly a deck you shouldn't even bother trying to fix and just hit it with residual hate from everything else.

You are correct.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[bigwerdz]

Who said we are fixing the matchup with bridge? It does help win games against reanimator and its also in the board for other MU's.

[Krimson Viper]

Who said we are fixing the matchup with bridge? It does help win games against reanimator and its also in the board for other MU's.
Just pointing something out so people don't overboard for a match up that's near impossible, for people needing space in their side. Don't bring or put in five hate pieces for your side. In fact, don't purposefully have more than three hate pieces that target a specific deck that doesn't have use in other places.

[Krimson Viper]

Burn is everywhere. Stay away from this deck if you can this weekend for the GP.

[Volt]

Burn is everywhere. Stay away from this deck if you can this weekend for the GP.

Yep. I took Burn to one of the 32-person "last chance" trials today. I made it to the finals, after playing the mirror match in rounds 2, 3, and 4 (!). Lots of Burn. Btw, my secret mirror match tech: not playing fetch lands. Every other burn deck I saw, including the three I played against, played fetches and Tops. It was like starting every game with a free Lightning Bolt.

[Nina]

Yep. I took Burn to one of the 32-person "last chance" trials today. I made it to the finals, after playing the mirror match in rounds 2, 3, and 4 (!). Lots of Burn. Btw, my secret mirror match tech: not playing fetch lands. Every other burn deck I saw, including the three I played against, played fetches and Tops. It was like starting every game with a free Lightning Bolt.

Lately I have played quiet much of "Burn without fetchlands".
My impression is that it works quiet well indeed. I didn't play the mirror though.

My decklist:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
3 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
20 Mountain

3 Monastery Swiftspear (I don't like thoose all that much.)
2 Searing Blood


SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Searing Blood

The 4 Blasts are most likely not correct.


About Sideboarding with Ensnaring Bridge. I bring them in against RUG playing Mongoose and Goyf. What do you think?

[Volt]

The swiftspears have been quite solid for me. IMO, the weakest card in the deck is Lava Spike. I shaved 2 out of my list to make room for a full set of Searing Bloods.

[Speedbump]

Burn is everywhere. Stay away from this deck if you can this weekend for the GP.How correct is a metagame call of sideboarding in 2-3 Dragon's Claw, if the meta is full of Burn? Seems like something that won't be expected in Game 2, at least.

EDIT: Haven't played a Burn mirror in about a year or so, so don't know how safe that is.

[Maikhell]

About the Dragon's Claw question, I do believe that it is too narrow to earn a spot. It's awesome in the mirror, but just in this match.

Still talking about the mirror, it's all about Searing effects and sticking a Guide/Swiftspear/Eidolon.

On another topic, with the decline of Omnitell, the Blast effects of the sideboard are not needed anymore. I would rather be the more proactive than trying to beat someone in a counter war.

[Speedbump]

About the Dragon's Claw question, I do believe that it is too narrow to earn a spot. It's awesome in the mirror, but just in this match.

Still talking about the mirror, it's all about Searing effects and sticking a Guide/Swiftspear/Eidolon.

On another topic, with the decline of Omnitell, the Blast effects of the sideboard are not needed anymore. I would rather be the more proactive than trying to beat someone in a counter war.I know that Dragon's Claw is overwhelmingly narrow, but I guess the question is, is it worth it to add a few spots for the mirror if you're expecting 15-20% of the meta to be running Burn? Personally, I'd probably switch a few sideboard slots to justify it, but then this is just speculation. (I think there might be one other person in Melbourne who plays Burn, and as we play in communities about 1h-1h30m from each other, there's no need to worry about that meta penetration)

Regarding the mirror (outside of my whimsy), I think the best card to land is Grim Lavamancer (if you're on the more controlling build of Burn) or Eidolon of the Great Revel (if you're on the more aggressive version of Burn). As always, being on the play will usually dictate who will win, and it is quite often correct to side out Eidolon of the Great Revel if you're on the draw. If you're on the draw, Searing Blaze effects become that much stronger, although they're pretty much always live in this match-up.

Regarding Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, I haven't been running any for a considerable amount of time, although that was based on a conscious choice to forgo the OmniTell match-up so that I can give Miracles an absolute hiding. Now that the Dig Through Time banning has resulted in OmniTell pilots switching back to Sneak and Show, it is correct to side in more cards like Exquisite Firecraft or Vexing Shusher, as I feel that the current metagame is far more rewarding to a proactive gameplan than a reactive gameplan.

[Krimson Viper]

Had three losses, but I played the whole nine rounds today at the GP, finishing three hundred and ninth. I won a Last Chance on single elimination yesterday, beating Reanimator, Shardless, Lands, UWR Delver, and Hive Mind. I did that with this list:

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Lava Spike
4 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

11 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa

Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Searing Blood
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Exquisite Firecraft

The main felt great. The only thing I would sort of think about is running twenty one lands and dropping Fireblast to three for that final land. Why? Because you really need to fight through soft permission and Thalia and Wingmare costs. My reasoning behind Lava Spike dropping to three from four and moving Blaze to four from three was that I was always sad Spike didn't kill a creature when I needed it to. Fair decks being everywhere also accounted for the decision. It slows the deck down a little, but I'm OK with that since I lose no tempo while dealing with threats. After an entire day of not seeing Reanimator around me I wanted to drop Crypt from my board since I won my two byes. After talking with some friends, they said they saw plenty of it, and plenty of Storm, which I hadn't seen much of either. I switch numbers around and came up with this for my sideboard for the following day.:

2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Searing Blood
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Mindbreak Trap

I decided that Vortex hurts in the aggro match ups, is slow, and can be hit with Decay, I let it go for a third Exquisite. I didn't regret it. I didn't battle Reanimator, Dredge, or Storm all day, and had just one Miracles match up. Needle helped and in one game it was combined with Smash to help me get there. I figured the opponent liked to go off with Mentor without a care in the world, I can maybe tag one and break the combo at the right time. Boom, Needle plus Smash got me there. He was pretty salty. I could taste it.

In the main event, I lost to Shardless BUG who had Tarmogoyf in all games, as well as Waste, making it a race where Price just didn't get me there, and I didn't find as many bolts as I would have liked. There was maybe a spot or two where I could have tagged him for four damage, but I was probably greedy and shrugged it off. That match was two to one.

Next loss was against Death and Taxes where I royally screwed up. He had a Jitte attached to a Revoker on Grim, and Thalia. I had three lands available and needed more lands for the multiple spells I needed to cast in turns. Where was the screw up? I didn't notice the untapped Karakas when I decided to target Thalia with Blood(I'm generally not liking this card, but it's needed). Down hill from there. Lost two to zero.

Last loss was to UR Delver. Mulled to six both games, and Pyromancer got there game one off of a hand full of disruption and Lava Spike top decks. Game one was a race which I was winning until he didn't play another critter and beat me down with True Name Nemesis and Bolts. I kept getting land and Searing effects with no targets. Eidolon both games and lost the die roll. Lost two to zero.

I can't put my opponents down though or even to dice rolls, which I won about eighty percent on today and yesterday, but my losses were to some really good players who knew the Burn match up really well. I'm sure I had other mistakes, but I didn't see them. I think this is probably the last time you guys will see me post in awhile. I need to put Magic down for real life events now. It's been fun and I hope you find this inspiring or insightful in some way. KV checking out.

[Eldariel]

I'm a bit surprised you didn't run any Volcanic Fallouts. In a world with all the Mentor/Pyromancer-variants, WW, Elves and company all at high frequency, I find it extremely valuable to be able to uncounterably sweep the board. I think I'd rather have a bunch of Fallouts than Searings in the SB, with 4 Blazes MD already.

[Volt]

Below is the list I played at the GP this weekend. Unfortunately, I bombed out of the main event, 0-3, losing to MUD, Cheerios (!), and Sneak and Show. I made a mistake in game 3 of the MUD match and may have blown that one. Sneak and Show came down to a topdeck race in game 3, and he drew the win at 2 life. In the match against Cheerios, I took a grand total of 1 turn and spent the rest of the match watching my opponent draw his deck. Disappointing result, but I came away feeling that I had simply drawn the short end of the stick in this event.

On the other hand, outside of the main event, I did quite well. I went 5-0 in a trial. Well, sort of. I conceded in the finals so the other guy could have the byes, but we played out the match for science and I won 2-0. I'm counting it. Sue me. As I noted earlier, I played the Burn mirror 3 matches in a row. After winning all three of those matches despite losing the die rolls, I came away feeling I had a distinct advantage in the mirror. The other two matches were against a janky home-brew Show and Tell deck, and Elves in the final (shout out to David).

After I dropped from the main event, I jumped into a Legacy side event, in which I ended up going 4-1. I beat Sneak and Show, Bant, ANT, and some black/white pile that I couldn't quite figure out what my opponent was trying to do. Lost to a Lands variant in which I got mana-hosed in both games.

So, overall on the weekend, I went 9-4 with the deck, and took home 3 boxes of booster packs for my trouble.

Observations from the two days:
1) Burn was extremely popular. Perhaps the most common deck in the field. Not that I counted. There were 2000 people. Just, anecdotally, it sure seemed like there was a lot of Burn decks.
2) Don't keep 4-land hands, Burn players. You will lose. Well, probably. I lost every time I kept a 4-land hand. After the last time it happened, I said "Okay, I think I finally learned that lesson."
3) 1-land hands are frequently okay to keep. You just have to roll the dice and hope you draw another land before it's too late. You can win. But you might lose.
4) Eidolon is friggin amazing.
5) I didn't miss the two Lava Spikes I shaved out. If you're looking to shave something from your list to make room for more Searing spells or whatever, look really hard at Lava Spike.

20 mountain

4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Chain Lightning
2 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blood
4 Fireblast

2 Sulfuric Vortex

SB:
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Pyroblast
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Searing Blaze

[elconquistador1985]

It looks like Exquisite Firecraft is showing up a lot in sideboards. Is it huge now? I don't currently have them, but I may look at picking up 3 of them soon.

This is what I'm currently playing. I'm thinking about dropping 2 Spikes for 2 Searing effects.

4 Bloodstained Mire
12 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Chain Lightning
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Fireblast
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex

Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Volcanic Fallout

[optml]

It looks like Exquisite Firecraft is showing up a lot in sideboards. Is it huge now? I don't currently have them, but I may look at picking up 3 of them soon.

This is what I'm currently playing. I'm thinking about dropping 2 Spikes for 2 Searing effects.


....

Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Volcanic Fallout

I'd highly recommend cutting the 3 shushers - have you had any luck with them?

I've been disappointed with them every time I've drawn them. My suggestion, replace them with 3 firecraft's. Soooo awesome against any FoW deck.
Save them for the last spell you play, so as people let the earlier stuff through 'knowing' they can stop your later stuff.

Also, Firecraft players beware for divert! Little &%*#& card won my merfolk opponent the match. He knew I had the firecrafts (he sold them to me the previous week!) and saved it to divert 4 dmg to my face.

Just a heads up that if firecraft becomes more and more played, it may well be something of an issue.

[elconquistador1985]

I'd highly recommend cutting the 3 shushers - have you had any luck with them?

I've been disappointed with them every time I've drawn them. My suggestion, replace them with 3 firecraft's. Soooo awesome against any FoW deck.
Save them for the last spell you play, so as people let the earlier stuff through 'knowing' they can stop your later stuff.

Also, Firecraft players beware for divert! Little &%*#& card won my merfolk opponent the match. He knew I had the firecrafts (he sold them to me the previous week!) and saved it to divert 4 dmg to my face.

Just a heads up that if firecraft becomes more and more played, it may well be something of an issue.

I've gotten use out of it, winning a few games on "FoW? pay to protect Fireblast." I almost look at Exquisite Firecraft as a 2 mana 4 damage spell with a tacked on Shusher protection, and Shusher can protect anything.

[Jon]

Shusher is on the same level for me as Swiftspear. They don't belong in the deck and don't do enough.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

[Eldariel]

Kian Dye (magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/top-32-decklist-2015-11-08) finished Top 32 in the GP with the following list:

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
1 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
2 Sulfuric Vortex

4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
11 Mountain


Sideboard
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Pyroblast
1 Electrickery
1 Red Elemental Blast


About as bogstandard as they come; notably 0 Barbarian Rings, some interesting sideboard choices (Electrickery, 4 Firecraft) and 4 Swiftspears.

[Itoasturoats]

I ended up finishing 13-5-1 with the deck this weekend including a day two performance at GP Sea-Tac and a 4-0-1 of a Friday swiss tournament. My list:

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
6 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

Sideboard
2 Searing Blood
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Faerie Discard Guy
1 Tormods Crypt

Changes maindeck I'm thinking about moving away from the searing blazes and adding back in the vortexes and another land similar to the top 32 list. Barbarian ring was great everytime I drew it and even had some super clutch plays finishing off a miracles and delver player through permission. I actually had the trigger stifled multiple times.


My losses day 1 were to shardless bug (sad I know) and mud. The shardless bug matchup I just ended up getting hymned out of both games and died to huge goyf beats. The mud game wasn't close as he opened with chalice both games on 1 with me on 1 drop heavy hands and a chalice on 2 plus locus gains put it way out of reach game 2.


As far as the talk on swifty I am a big fan of the card - it pushes through huge damage in decks that can't interact with you and is a bane on miracles. In testing I have been absolutely crushing miracles players but I only played one opponent on day 2 on miracles so I'm not sure as to the skill of the pilots.. Firecrafts are amazing!

[mistercakes]

i saw a list on magic online

3-1 in daily event:

Creature (13)
3 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
Sorcery (12)
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
Instant (12)
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
Enchantment (3)
3 Sulfuric Vortex
Land (20)
1 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
10 Mountain
1 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
4 Destructive Revelry 2 Faerie Macabre 3 Pyrostatic Pillar 4 Searing Blaze 2 Vexing Shusher


thoughts on abbot in maindeck?

[jrsthethird]

i saw a list on magic online

3-1 in daily event:

Creature (13)
3 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
Sorcery (12)
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
Instant (12)
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
Enchantment (3)
3 Sulfuric Vortex
Land (20)
1 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
10 Mountain
1 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
4 Destructive Revelry 2 Faerie Macabre 3 Pyrostatic Pillar 4 Searing Blaze 2 Vexing Shusher

thoughts on abbot in maindeck?

I play him as a one-of. I like him, but I don't know if I'd want to see more than one per game. He's only really good when you untap with 3 lands on the board, so I don't think trying to jam Abbots is something we should be thinking about turns 2-3.