UR Control

[The Treefolk Master]

This thread is for the discussion of the UR Control Deck (reminiscent of the old Next Level Blue decks) that made Top 4 at Japan's National Legacy Championship (384 players, which discourages the idea of its performance being a fluke).

7 Island
2 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Academy Ruins
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trinket Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Blood Moon
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Counterspell
1 Sudden Shock
4 Force of Will
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vedalken Shackles

Sideboard

3 Divert
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Grim Lavamancer

The deck was also mentioned in Caleb Durward's article "Brewing Control", which can be found here: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-brewing-control/

I don't have any experience of the deck yet, but I have it built and sleeved in paper, so I'll add to this thread as soon as I can get a few games with it.

Thoughts?

[thecrav]

It's certainly an interesting idea, but I don't know if Red will ever be better than White in a Counterbalance deck. Splashing red, yes. Playing it as the secondary color, no.

That being said, the first thing I notice is only one Top. This means two things. First, if you don't have a top isn't in the top 10 cards, you're going to be paying four for it or waiting.

[Countertoplol]

I've actually been toying around with a U/R counterbalance list. I'll post a list if i ever find something I like, but i dunno if I will. I'm just testing it because I like countertop and blood moon and I don't play miracles.

[The Treefolk Master]

It's certainly an interesting idea, but I don't know if Red will ever be better than White in a Counterbalance deck. Splashing red, yes. Playing it as the secondary color, no.

That being said, the first thing I notice is only one Top. This means two things. First, if you don't have a top isn't in the top 10 cards, you're going to be paying four for it or waiting.

I may have misunderstood your message, but this is not a Counterbalance deck. Top is just there as added value to tutor via Trinket Mage, it is in no way one of the deck's primary plans. In fact, naming Top with Pithing Needle is a common line of play.

[Countertoplol]

I may have misunderstood your message, but this is not a Counterbalance deck. Top is just there as added value to tutor via Trinket Mage, it is in no way one of the deck's primary plans. In fact, naming Top with Pithing Needle is a common line of play.

Yea I know, but I've been using that shell as a starting point and trying countertop in in. Just curious to see how it runs.

[DragoFireheart]

I guess I'm wondering what is gained by only going UR for a control deck. The lack of Terminus and Verdit seems like creature swarms would be too much to handle.

[cogitoergosum]

I feel like SBing either pyroclasm, or maybe even volcanic fallout, would be an effective sweeper in replacement of terminus. I really like the idea of this deck, especialy the potential of punishing greedy manabases with both bloodmoon and PoP.

[xfxf]

In a control shell I'll take Grim Lavamancer and Pyroclasm over Terminus any day. Should sleeve this up and star testing.

[bruizar]

What is the sudden shock for? I'm sure it's no coincidence. What is it supposed to target? Uncounterable spot removal?

[lost_ronin_soul]

this list looks similiar to american blade http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25569-American-Blade-(legacy-U-W-R-control)
here is my list from it
Lands:
1 Academy Ruins (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Academy Ruins)
2 Arid Mesa (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Arid%20Mesa)
4 Flooded Strand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flooded%20Strand)
4 Scalding Tarn (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scalding%20Tarn)
1 Plateau (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plateau)
2 Tundra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tundra)
2 Volcanic Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Volcanic%20Island)
3 Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Island)
1 Mountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain)
1 Plains (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Plains)

Creatures:
2 Geist of Saint Traft (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Geist of Saint Traft)
3 Snapcaster Mage (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snapcaster Mage)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Stoneforge Mystic)
2 Vendilion Clique (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vendilion Clique)

Instants:
4 Brainstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Brainstorm)
1 Counterspell (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Counterspell)
4 Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will)
4 Lightning Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning%20Bolt)
3 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
3 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)
1 Izzetet Charm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Izzet%20Charm)

Artifact:
1 Batterskull (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Batterskull)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Umezawa's%20Jitte)
2 Sensei's Divining Top (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Sensei's%20Divining%20Top)
2 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)

Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jace,%20the%20Mind%20Sculptor)


Sideboard:
2 Detention Sphere (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Detention%20Sphere)
2 Flusterstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flusterstorm)
2 Mindbreak Trap (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mindbreak%20Trap)
1 Spell Pierce (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spell%20Pierce)
1 Engineered Explosives (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Engineered%20Explosives)
3 Red Elemental Blast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Red%20Elemental%20Blast)
2 Rest In Peace (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rest%20In%20Peace)
1 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)
1 Supreme Verdict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Supreme%20Verdict)

I been haven a decent amount of luck with this list as of last weekend(top 16 at jupiter in an 88 man event, and undefeated the next day at a 13 man legacy event in rochester). I think it is stable deck and I am pretty content with my list. I been doing actively working hard on my list. Hopefully there is an idea or two you may like and can take from it :)

[thefreakaccident]

I would want to run burning wish in a deck like this. Mainly, because it reminds me of my Ur control from back in the days when cunning wish wasn't complete garbage outside of solidarity. If its' quick enough for sneak and show to use, it stands to reason its' quick enough for control, at least as a supportive slot. Then again, it would probably just go grab pyroclasm 80% of the time, so it might as well be pyroclasm. I think it would rather piss people off if you bounced your wizards back to hand with riptide laboratory while cleaning the board with clasms, it's just too damn cute.

[Piceli89]

I've tried UR control in pretty much every shell avaiable in the lst year and I brought it to my last tournament with a Countertop shell, featuring 3 Snapcasters, 2 Vendilions, 2 Trinkets, 2 EEs maindeck, 3 Snares, 23 lands with ARuins, Blood Moon in side and so on.

My concern before entering the tournament is that I would have struggled if I faced Tarmogoyf decks (Jund and Threshold), and so it was. I lost to a resolved Tarmogoyf in two different matchups (Dark Threshold and Threshold), basically having no card that could allow me to get rid of it on a consistent 1-on-1 basis as, e.g., StP would do. Submerge and Relic can slow it down and partially stem the bleeding, but they are not real solutions; as soon as it is at least a 3/4- usually when it comes down-, he's an annoyance.
Threshold just raped me with its 1-cc costs while I was trying to stick my mid-curve threats against Daze and Spell Snare.
I think UR control is sadly subpar in relation to its white counterpart as long as Tarmogoyf and, to a lesser extent, stuff like Thrun and Knight of Reliquary will exist. It lacks an efficient way to deal with those threats, as well as a way to solve the Punishing Fire dilemma.

And no, I don't think Blood Moon is worth being played from the maindeck, because there's still a good part of the metagame that can ignore it (or against which it is dead, much like combo), and it may also happen to shut some part of your own cards like fetchlands which would maximize a Brainstorm. You have to calculate Blood Moon as a part of your strategy in advance in order for it to be good, which translates into searching for it and playing accordingly your lands and your cantrips; if it comes up by accident, there are a lot of scenarios where it's a hinderance for yourself as much as for your opponent. I'm saying these words after having shut down my Ruins and fetches (and also Top, thus) too many times.

Unless your metagame is filled with BUG and Jund and Threshold (where it still is so-and-so as it doesn't solve compromised board positions where you are dying and, believe me, you always find yourself struggling to stabilize from Mongeese and Goyfs), I would leave it to the sideboard, only to come in against those MUs.
But if it was so, you would lose g1 from Jund as soon as Punishing Fire gets active (you can play CB, but it's not going to last with Decay around), since your win conditions are X/1s and Jace and these colours don't offer a strong trump card like Entreat the Angels.

White-both as a splash or main color- is quite a must to have a control deck that has the tools to fight every possible angle of attack.
UR only, unfortunately, has an incomplete cardpool for Legacy. The only chance is playing Dismember-which sucks as it accelerates furtherly their clock- or crappy things like Turn//Burn.

My 2 cents

[Qweerios]

@Piceli89

I completely agree with your assessment there, I have been there too. I was pondering white vs. blue and I thought that Bonfire of the Damned might be a good idea. White grants tools and answers that allow a control deck to be, well, in control (more universal) while red only really offers very specific tools like Blood Moon and Red Elemental Blast. However, red also provides reach, something that is considered secondary in a control deck. I think that a CB/Top shell a la miracle with Bonfire would be a good starting point. Using Delver despite the slow nature of the deck looks feasible because it has a different type of synergy with the deck: it can easily be squeezed into play while leaving mana open for disruption. Delver also has great synergy with the dual nature of other cards already present in a UR control shell such as Clique and Bolt. What I am suggesting here is a different take on control that would trade inevitability for reach/aggression, therefore a different strategy altogether rather than a dissolution of an existing one.