2x Blood Scrivener and Replacement effects

[DrJones]

Scenario: I have two blood scrivener in the battlefield and no cards in hand.

Blood Scrivener :1::b:
Creature - Zombie Wizard
If you would draw a card while you have no cards in hand, instead draw two cards and lose 1 life.
2/1

Then, I draw a card.

1. Blood Scrivener A triggers, replaces the "draw a card" by "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life"
2. Blood Scrivener B triggers, replaces "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life" for "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life."

If the above steps are correct, what rule prevents the following steps to take place?

3. Blood Scrivener A triggers again, replaces "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life" for "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life"
4. Blood Scrivener B triggers again, continuing the infinite loop.

[Tylert]

Edit: hum... re-thinking and not sure about what i said... :)

[Arsenal]

Scenario: I have two blood scrivener in the battlefield and no cards in hand.

Blood Scrivener :1::b:
Creature - Zombie Wizard
If you would draw a card while you have no cards in hand, instead draw two cards and lose 1 life.
2/1

Then, I draw a card.

1. Blood Scrivener A triggers, replaces the "draw a card" by "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life"
2. Blood Scrivener B triggers, replaces "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life" for "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life."

If the above steps are correct, what rule prevents the following steps to take place?

3. Blood Scrivener A triggers again, replaces "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life" for "draw a card. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life. draw a card. lose 1 life"
4. Blood Scrivener B triggers again, continuing the infinite loop.


Blood Scrivener doesn't trigger, it's a replacement effect. The line of play you outlined will not work.

[cdr]

When/whenever/at = trigger.
Instead = replacement effect.

Much like like the Uba Mask thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25854-Blood-Scrivener-Uba-Mask), you have two replacement effects trying to apply to the same event. So you pick one, that one modifies the event, and you see if the other one applies.

The modified event is now "draw a card, draw a card, lose 1 life" and the second Scriviner will indeed apply to the event since you are drawing card(s) and have none in your hand. Each draw is also treated as a separate event, though, so the second Scriviner will only apply to the first draw. So "draw a card, draw a card, lose 1 life, draw a card, lose 1 life" and both replacements have applied to the event and we're done.

[Koby]

When/whenever/at = trigger.
Instead = replacement effect.

Much like like the Uba Mask thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25854-Blood-Scrivener-Uba-Mask), you have two replacement effects trying to apply to the same event. So you pick one, that one modifies the event, and you see if the other one applies.

The modified event is now "draw a card, draw a card, lose 1 life" and the second Scriviner will indeed apply to the event since you are drawing card(s) and have none in your hand. So "draw a card, draw a card, lose 1 life, draw a card, draw a card, lose 1 life, lose 1 life" and both replacements have applied to the event and we're done.

I'm having a little trouble with this scenario. (#) references unique events.

Original event is "draw a card during draw step" (1)
BS#1 replaces the event with "draw a card (2), draw a card (3), lose 1 life (4)". The rules specifically treat drawing multiple cards as consecutive "draw a card" events.
BS#2 now sees the original event (1) being replaced with another "draw a card" (2), and modifies the event.

Resulting in:
"draw a card (5), draw a card (6), lose 1 life (7), draw a card (3), lose 1 life (4)"

Both Blood Scrivners have now modified the Draw Step and the replacements are complete.

Event #3 would not be replaced because at the time it would occur, a card would already be in the player's hand.
(1) was replaced with (2-4) from BS#1
(2) was replaced with (5-7) from BS#2

How did your result go to being
"Draw a card, draw a card, lose 1 life, draw a card, draw a card, lose 1 life, lose 1 life"?

As I understand it, Scrivner's ability only replaces the draw if the condition would be met, so after drawing a card it would not try to replace it.

[cdr]

You're right, I edited above. The second Sciviner will only replace the first draw, since draws are treated as individual events, so you will draw 3 and lose 2 life.

[kombatkiwi]

You're right, I edited above. The second Sciviner will only replace the first draw, since draws are treated as individual events, so you will draw 3 and lose 2 life.

Don't you mean draw 3 lose 1
Edit: Nvm I didn't think it through

[alderon666]

This is surely a interaction we'll see in T2 if this cards sees any play. I expect headaches...

Now add Chains of Mephistopheles to that scenario...