[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[Einherjer]

Decklists?!? :) :)
Could you tell Tim to post his list, and more important a tournament report. To be honest, its great to see that BW is so talentdependet :) Great work tim! 5-1 oh my god :)

[Leto]

Friend of mine went 5-2 a week ago on a tourney in Iserlohn, Germany and made Top 10.

List was this

Lands
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
3 Swamp
1 Plains

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vampire Nighthawk

other Stuff
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Bitterblossom
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard
4 Extirpate
2 Path to Exile
2 Tormods Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Perish
1 Manriki-Gusari


MUs
vs. Team America 2:0
vs. UWr Thoptersword 2:0
vs. UWr Stoneblade 1:2
vs. High Tide 2:0
vs. Cantresh 2:1
vs. GW 1:2
vs. NORUG 2:1
5:2 or 12:6 in Games

Shows in my Opinion, that Mox is no Must-have in this Deck

[Tim the Enchanter]

Decklists?!? :) :)
Could you tell Tim to post his list, and more important a tournament report. To be honest, its great to see that BW is so talentdependet :) Great work tim! 5-1 oh my god :)

You can't tell me to do anything. I do what I want. Yeah I run with gangs. I run with twelve gangs! So what? I DO WHAT I WANT!

I'll post the list later. I made 27th, was 15th going into the last round :( I PSYOPed myself in the Zoo match with Pat Cox, which is still a bad MU I don't care what anybody says. You can read about how he smashed my face in 10 minutes on the SCG site. I don't think it would've mattered much anyway since he had exactly the kind of hands that Zoo wants to get every time, and top decked 3 land in a row after he missed his second land drop and I Wasted his first :/ If somebody reads the write up and asks why I didn't grab Batterskull with my SFM in game 1 I'm going to say all sorts of nasty things about your intelligence and your mother. The only other possibly correct choice there was to grab Jitte.

I played terribly against Merfolk in round 7, didn't help that he had 3 Stifle's in the first game! The third game he played a turn 2 Coralhelm Commander, I edicted it. He played a T3 CC, I Vindicated it. He played a turn 4 CC, I lost after he dropped 2 more lords. I punted the match by equipping Mariki-Gusari, he was playing Jitte's and Phantasmal image to copy my SFM, on a wolf token to try to trade with a Reejery instead of just equipping the stupid SoBaM to it.

In the last round I played against Merfolk again, mulliganned and he lorded out on me game on. Game 2 I kept a hand with 2 Swamps, 2 TS, BB, Hymn, and Ghostly Prison. Got beat to almost to death by multiple Mutavaults before I finally drew a feth to play Ghostly Prison. Then I died to my own BB. It wasn't a game for either of us really and it was a heartbreaking way to end a day that started 5-0.

I beat:
Esperblade 2-1
Painterstone 2-0
Mirror 2-1, Mulled to 5 game two. He was on the play and I got Hymned on the second turn and I got to keep my land, SFM, BB, and a land, life was good. I drew Vindicate, played a land and BB then got Hymned again. I lost that one.
RB that looked similar and had Jitte but obvioulsy no SFM. He kept a shaky mana hand and we both traded T1 TS for the opponents BB. He ended up with a Jitte and got two counters on it before I killed every creature he played before he could swing with it again. I won. He mulled to and I dismembered his hand and wasted all his colored sources for an easy win.
Reanimator. He countered my T2 BB. I drew another and attempted again, it got countered too. I drew a third and laughed as it turned into yet another Hymn. I draw all my equipment and grab Batterskull with my SFM. I equip everything and win despite milling him 10. I figure I can get rid of reanimate spells with the mill and win the next turn. It worked. T1 He dumps an Inkwell and Elesh Norn into the yard. I take make him discard some more and take a Force with Sculler. He reanimates Elesh to get his Force back for his only card left. I bait it with something then StP Elesh. I win despite casting Extirpate on his only reanimation target, Inkwell, in response to Entomb because I thought it was actually exhume!

The more I play with Chrome Mox the less I like it.

[Leto]

Sorry to hear that you missed Top16 so close.

About the quote, I'm sure he meant "Could you ask Tim to post his List and a report"

[bfeingersh]

@Tim:

1) I agree, Zoo sucks for us. I would say it's probably our worst matchup but there are quite a few decks I haven't tested extensively enough to make that claim.

2) Chrome Mox is very hit-or-miss for me. I hate to remove cards and often a T1 Bob or Mystic isn't enough to win. I actually board them out in the mirror and against other Junk variants (especially with Deed) along with Hymns to bring in more threats, Elspeth and another Bitterblossom. And Perish. That card is alright.

3) Are you playing with an Enlightened Tutor board plan?

4) I think I'm going to go up to 3 or even 4 Scullers, as that guy is totally sweet.

5) Are you or anyone else going to be at the Boston open this weekend? I will be repping Deadguy there if anyone wants to talk lists beforehand.

[Rizso]

I would recommend to try out Phyrexian Crusader in the zoo matchup, they are fantastic! :D Only way for them to beat it is with active Jitte or Goyf geting blocked & blocking and there is more then 3 types in the graveyards.

[bfeingersh]

That seems incredibly narrow though. I can't see myself devoting 2-3 slots in the board to him.

[Tim the Enchanter]

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir

4 Bitterblossom
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Chrome Mox

1 Diabolic Edict
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Vindicate
3 Swords to Plowshares

4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
1 Fetid Heath
3 Wasteland
5 Swamp
1 Plains

SB
1 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Gatekeeper of Malkir
1 Manriki Gusari
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Basalisk Collar
2 Perish
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Extirpate

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna cut Chrome Mox now. Phyrexian Crusader may very well be worth dedicating slots to in the board. I've been solidly on the "Fuck Phyrexian Crusader" wagon for a while, but Zoo really is that bad.

I wish I could make it to Boston but it's a bit too far for me to travel too. Good luck there.

[Rizso]

That seems incredibly narrow though. I can't see myself devoting 2-3 slots in the board to him.

You are still gonna need to use slots for the zoo matchup. Its a deck that is common deck, a deck to beat and deadguy got an disadvantech against. So what other cards do you want instead? The card wins on it self and it splash damage against goblins as well as against thoes random angel stompy /stax and Dragon stompy decks. Its great defensively and closes the game really fast once you go on the offensive with it.

[Anthem]

You are still gonna need to use slots for the zoo matchup. Its a deck that is common deck, a deck to beat and deadguy got an disadvantech against. So what other cards do you want instead? The card wins on it self and it splash damage against goblins as well as against thoes random angel stompy /stax and Dragon stompy decks. Its great defensively and closes the game really fast once you go on the offensive with it.

The slot that I dedicate to Zoo is generally 3 Perish. It also helps against decks that rely on green creatures primarily, and Progenitus (see: NO Bant etc). I'm honestly not convinced that Phyrexian Crusader is worth the slots unless Zoo is that dominant in your meta. Otherwise there are more versatile cards that won't leave you feeling like you wasted space if you happened to not see Zoo that day.

Edit: Also I guess main board MoR helps the MU a little for my build specifically.

[Richard Cheese]

The slot that I dedicate to Zoo is generally 3 Perish. It also helps against decks that rely on green creatures primarily, and Progenitus (see: NO Bant etc). I'm honestly not convinced that Phyrexian Crusader is worth the slots unless Zoo is that dominant in your meta. Otherwise there are more versatile cards that won't leave you feeling like you wasted space if you happened to not see Zoo that day.

Edit: Also I guess main board MoR helps the MU a little for my build specifically.

Actually a lot of Zoo lists are getting less dependent on Green, dropping KotR and Pridemage for Loam Lion/Kird Ape/Goblin Guide/Steppe Lynx. Not that Perish is a bad SB card or anything, just not guaranteed to be as helpful in that matchup as it once was.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Actually a lot of Zoo lists are getting less dependent on Green, dropping KotR and Pridemage for Loam Lion/Kird Ape/Goblin Guide/Steppe Lynx. Not that Perish is a bad SB card or anything, just not guaranteed to be as helpful in that matchup as it once was.

Too true. The only green card I saw at all against Pat Cox was T1 Nacatl both games. So my Perish did nothing but 3 more damage to me from Bob. It really sucked and I wish that 3 damage would've been a creature that could block and with impunity and not die to removal...

[bfeingersh]

I think this is what I will play this weekend:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tidehollow Sculler

3 Bitterblossom

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of _____ and _____ (probably Fire/Ice or Body/Mind)

1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Go for the Throat

4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Fetid Heath
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
1 Plains

Board:
2 Duress
2 Perish
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb

[esqulax]

Just a stray thought, but a single Sword of War and Peace in the board against Zoo? It is probably better to just side swords out all together since jitte or Batterskull is most likely better, but I just heard someone else mention once that it was pretty good against Zoo. Especially if you run MoR to protect the creature while equiping it.

Anyway I don't know, anyone else care to comment on it?

[Einherjer]

Sorry Tim, I was just happy you made it :) And ofc i ment "ask" not "tell" sorry for this one bud

[Tim the Enchanter]

Believe it or not, Batterskull is actually fairly bad against Zoo. You're never going to untap with SFM and you're probably never going to get to 5 mana, and even if you do it's probably too late at that point anyway. Obviously it's amazing if it gets on the table, but the chances are so unlikely that it's worth thinking about boarding out.

I really miss Serra Avenger against Zoo, but that would probably require Aether Vials again and thats not where you want this to go.

Sword of War and Peace is good against them. I had a Basalisk Collar in the board for Zoo, because blocking with deathtouching faeries seems awesome, but sadly I didn't get the chance to try it out really.

Philip, I was just busting your balls.

[Draener]

Main deck Phryexian Crusader. He is insane against a ton of decks, and you pitch him to chrome mox against the decks where he is not. Controls only answer to him is Jace, which doesn't work if you have any kind of pressure, and he really does stop zoo dead. Despite what you may think, the poison actually does kill incredibly fast, and if you equip him it's just that much crazier.

[Rizso]

Just a stray thought, but a single Sword of War and Peace in the board against Zoo? It is probably better to just side swords out all together since jitte or Batterskull is most likely better, but I just heard someone else mention once that it was pretty good against Zoo. Especially if you run MoR to protect the creature while equiping it.

Anyway I don't know, anyone else care to comment on it?

I run sword of war and peace and phyrexian crusaders in my board. The problem with jitte and batterskull against zoo is that the deck runs like 12 burn spells and 3-4 paths so 15-16 removal spells, so geting that batterskull active before death can be hard same with Jitte that requires you to ram one of your bears into a kirdape creature.

I also like the sowap in control mathups where an active sword can cuts the clock in half.

So after board against zoo I have both Phyrexian Obliterator and Phyrexian Crusader that are a beating for the zoo to beat.

My current sideboard is currently
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquision of kozilek
3 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Perish
3 Surigical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Mortarpod
1 Ghost Quarter

[Anthem]

Believe it or not, Batterskull is actually fairly bad against Zoo. You're never going to untap with SFM and you're probably never going to get to 5 mana, and even if you do it's probably too late at that point anyway. Obviously it's amazing if it gets on the table, but the chances are so unlikely that it's worth thinking about boarding out.

I really miss Serra Avenger against Zoo, but that would probably require Aether Vials again and thats not where you want this to go.

Sword of War and Peace is good against them. I had a Basalisk Collar in the board for Zoo, because blocking with deathtouching faeries seems awesome, but sadly I didn't get the chance to try it out really.

Philip, I was just busting your balls.

What's wrong with Aether Vial? Is Misstep really that bad? I run Serra Avenger, but I don't see how she's especially good against Zoo. I'm still in the camp of trying to untap with Mother of Runes against them.

I guess the Zoo lists in my meta are still mostly green, but it sucks that Zoo is retreating from that color. If that's the case, I might want Fire/Ice instead of Body/Mind.

Also: can someone tell me why Mortarpod is a sideboard card? Dredge?

[Rizso]

What's wrong with Aether Vial? Is Misstep really that bad? I run Serra Avenger, but I don't see how she's especially good against Zoo. I'm still in the camp of trying to untap with Mother of Runes against them.

I guess the Zoo lists in my meta are still mostly green, but it sucks that Zoo is retreating from that color. If that's the case, I might want Fire/Ice instead of Body/Mind.

Also: can someone tell me why Mortarpod is a sideboard card? Dredge?

I have mortarpod in my board for Dredge, NO-Rug as well as Maverick or any other decks that run 1 thoughness creatures like Clique, Noble and dark Confidant

[Tim the Enchanter]

What's wrong with Aether Vial? Is Misstep really that bad? I run Serra Avenger, but I don't see how she's especially good against Zoo. I'm still in the camp of trying to untap with Mother of Runes against them.

I guess the Zoo lists in my meta are still mostly green, but it sucks that Zoo is retreating from that color. If that's the case, I might want Fire/Ice instead of Body/Mind.

Also: can someone tell me why Mortarpod is a sideboard card? Dredge?

What's wrong with Aether Vial is that you have to play enough creatures to support it and if you don't have it on turn one it's usefulness drastically decreases. If you have Vial and TS on turn 1 you put yourself in an awkward position because TS is probably the right play but if you don't play the Vial it's going to sit in your hand for a while as you jam other threats onto the board.

BB is absolutely amazing and is 4 less creatures that you can play. 4 TS and Vindicate also cut into your creature slots. Really the only creatures that I wish I could still play main Avenger, Revoker, and more Sculler, but the real discard seems better.

Avenger is decent against Zoo because she races at the same pace Nacatl while eating Apes, Lions, and Goblins at the same time. Plus she doesn't die to Lavamancer and she'll always connect.

It sounds to me like you're playing a list very similar to my list from Charlotte. It was good at the time but the meta has shifted away from creature based decks for the most part and Pernicious Deed, WoG, Lavamancer, Shackles, and EE are backbreaking for it. Those are still all bad but at least with BB everything other than Deed is fairly easy to recover from. Having Mom and Avenger does help the Zoo MU but at the expense of every other MU.

Body and Mind still lets you swing past Goyfs and Knights from the other decks that can beat you down.

[Rizso]

The only sword I have been missing at all is Sword of Feast and Famine, feels so wrong not to have it in the deck. Playing alot of standard where its the best card atm :P.

Not playing Bitterblossoms any more, feel it takes to much damage with it.

[Anthem]

So hypothetically, what about a list that looks something like this?

4x Dark Confidant
4x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Serra Avenger
2x Mirran Crusader

4x Vindicate
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Duress
2x IoK
1x Diabolic Edict
3x Swords to Plowshares
3x Mental Misstep

1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte

3x Bitterblossom

4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
6 Fetches
1 Karakas
1 Urborg
4 Basics

SB:
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Darkblast
3x Angel's Grace
3x Phyrexian Crusader
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sword of Body and Mind
3x Tormod's Crypt

The sideboard is just an idea considering it all depends on your meta, but I did cave on the Crusaders. Deadguy needs at least one creature that goes into the red zone and likes it. Angel's Grace for Hivemind, GY hate, etc.

I like Elspeth, but I feel like she's a guilty pleasure in the sense that I personally almost never get to four mana. I didn't include her. I included Mental Misstep because apparently it's better than MoR. Serra Avenger is a good creature even without vial, Deadguy needs at least something solid in the air, and a creature that is good in combat.

Darkblast is a card I think should reemerge in a world full of Flickerwisp, Dark Confidant, Noble Hierarch, Grim Lavamancer, that green creature land N.O. likes to use, Vendilion Clique, etc.

The biggest issue I predict with this list is lifeloss. MM, Confidant, and Bitterblossom add up. I've been toying with the idea of Kitchen Finks.

[bfeingersh]

Elspeth is one of my favorite cards for this deck. I don't know why she's been chilling in my sideboard for so long but I'm going to move one to the main for this weekend. She helps you claw back when you're behind, breaks any stalemate, and is a perfect win-more that helps you end the game in a turn or two. Not to mention there are only like, 3 cards in the format that kill her other than combat damage.

As far as that list goes, I think I would switch the IoK/Duress split, but looks good overall. I'm still not a fan of running Angel's Grace, but if you've read any of my posts in here I'm against running any narrow sideboard cards. Hence why my boards are usually generic GY hate x3, generic combo hate x5, generic aggro hate x4, generic threats for mirror/landstill MU x3.

[Qweerios]

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict


I mean come on... what is that supposed to accomplish?

On another note, Chrome Mox lost popularity? It seems to me like this lategame deadcard has been replaced by... Duress..? It gives the deck a better curve but also acts as an equaly dead lategame card. As far as 1cc discard is concerned, I think IoK is the closest thing to TS, if not better.

[Raystar]

If what is needed is some "air support" I would suggest Stillmoon Cavalier instead of the Serra Avengers:

- it has a self built "mother of runes" effect
- blocks a lot of annoying stuff
- if pumped provides a very nice clock

With a SoFI equipped it becomes an unstoppable force, I suggest you give it a try.

[Rizso]

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict


I mean come on... what is that supposed to accomplish?

On another note, Chrome Mox lost popularity? It seems to me like this lategame deadcard has been replaced by... Duress..? It gives the deck a better curve but also acts as an equaly dead lategame card. As far as 1cc discard is concerned, I think IoK is the closest thing to TS, if not better.

I wouldnt touch duress before having 4 thoughtseizes and 4 IOK in the 75, I run 3 thoughtseize and 1 IOK in main and additional 1 thoughtseize and 1 extra IOK in the board. I just Like Gatekeeper so much that im not gonna touch the edict.

I feel that the spells that are gonna make us lose are the 4+cc spells, Jace, Elspeth, natural order, batterskull, Fireblast, fow, misdirection etc. So not gonna downgrade many thoughtseizes into IOK.


As for the Phyrexian Crusaders against zoo, going t1 stoneforge for jitte, t2 crusader, if he doenst have close to 20 points of damage in burn in his hand or scopes it will end in your win within a couple of turns.

[Tim the Enchanter]

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict


I mean come on... what is that supposed to accomplish?

MM is rampant and Edict gets around it while also killing Emrakul, Progentitus, Jin-Gitaxis, Inkwell Leviathan, the shroud angel, and lonely Goyfs and Knights at instant speed without needing triple black.

[KobeBryan]

What do you think of my decklist.

Lands (20)
4x scrublands
4x marshflats
2x arid mesa
3x plains
3x swamps
4x wastelands

creatures (18)
4x stoneforge mystic
4x mother of runes
3x mirran crusader
4x tideholler sculler
4x dark confidant

spells (15)
4x vindicate
4x swords to plowshares
4x inquisition of kolizek
3x gerrard's verdict

enchantment (3)
3x bitterblossom

artifacts (4)
1x sword of fire and ice
1x batterskull
1x jitte
1x sword of body and mind

sideboard
2x relic of prognitus
1x tormod's crypt
2x enligthened tutor
1x serenity
2x engineered explosive
3x diabolic edict
2x phyrexian metamorph
2x ethersworn cannoist

[Rizso]

MM is rampant and Edict gets around it while also killing Emrakul, Progentitus, Jin-Gitaxis, Inkwell Leviathan, the shroud angel, and lonely Goyfs and Knights at instant speed without needing triple black.

I know edicts are great but I run missteps maindecked so rather have that 4th sword instead of the edict.

To avatar: Hymn is way better the the verdict :P

[Qweerios]

MM is rampant and Edict gets around it while also killing Emrakul, Progentitus, Jin-Gitaxis, Inkwell Leviathan, the shroud angel, and lonely Goyfs and Knights at instant speed without needing triple black.

So losing 1 StP in favor of 1 Edict fixes that? I wish it was that simple and that I could simply draw an edict when emrakul pops. If the two cards are equally good, play them as a 2/2 split. Going with a singleton edict because "it cannot be missteped and kills emrakul" doesn't sound right. If the deck ran tutors, sure, go for singletons but it doesn't so you're simply missing out on a 4th 1CC targeted exile removal in favor of a 2CC sac removal.

[Abantau]

I would go for 4 stp and 2 edicts on sb. I feel edicts are a must with hive mind players everywhere. If i see NO RUG players i would board in 2 tariff instead of edict because with edict they can sac their smaller creature instead of progen with tariff theres no way they can pay progens cc. Just my 2 cents.

[Rizso]

Managed to get to open a foiled Surgical extractions as well as bought 2 and 3 Phyrexian Crusaders for a cheap price. Pimped version is shaping up :D

For progenitus I prefair Perish as it does alot against any Green sun's Zenith decks. As of right now I dont use any anti storm combo in my board as a couple of ethersworn canonists arent really gonna get there. Using it in a enlightened tutor package is just to slow. Rather bring in the extra 1cc discard and extractions and hope geting there after riping apart his hand and missteping.

Dark blast and Mortarpod does the same thing but mortarpod can be tutored with stoneforge and its good against dredge.

[Anthem]

Managed to get to open a foiled Surgical extractions as well as bought 2 and 3 Phyrexian Crusaders for a cheap price. Pimped version is shaping up :D

For progenitus I prefair Perish as it does alot against any Green sun's Zenith decks. As of right now I dont use any anti storm combo in my board as a couple of ethersworn canonists arent really gonna get there. Using it in a enlightened tutor package is just to slow. Rather bring in the extra 1cc discard and extractions and hope geting there after riping apart his hand and missteping.

Dark blast and Mortarpod does the same thing but mortarpod can be tutored with stoneforge and its good against dredge.

I prefer Darkblast because it is cheaper and more easily reusable. It is also immune to the anti-equipment cards Deadguy sees in Game 2 (or goddamn stifle on germ trigger) and doesn't mind being counterspelled or discarded. Sure, you can cheat in Morarpod, but if that were possible then in most cases I'd consider it a mistake that it wasn't a
Batterskull you tutored.

I'm a huge fan of Perish, but I've recently been talked into trying Retribution of the Meek. It notably gets Progenitus, Dreadnaught, Emrakul, anything Reanimator likes, Knight of the Reliquary, and more often than not Tarmogoyf.

[Rizso]

If the board was like 20 cards instead of 15 then maybe I would go Dark Blast instead of Mortarpod, but 15 is a tight spot. So rather use only 1 rather then 2+. Im fine with them stifling the mortarpod token they lose a card and I still got my mortarpod. Also mortarpod helps out in one of our worse matchup dredge, kills any Dreadreturn enabler as well as removing bridges.

Retribution of the Meek is quite cool but rather have a sweeper, not often you really need to sweep multiple large creatures at the same time that arent green. Again the 15 slots are tight in the board.

[bfeingersh]

So I played at the SCG open today, finishing out of T16 on breakers (7-2, 20th). I'll post up some more detailed notes on my list and matchups if people want, but some quick hits:

1) I was skeptical of Phyrexian Crusader but he was sweet and I boarded him in like 6/9 rounds.

2) Maindeck Elspeth was sweet because Elspeth is the shit.

3) Chrome Moxen and other mana accelerants were not missed at all.

4) Sword of Body and Mind was much better than I think Fire and Ice would have been.

Rounds:
1: UW Landstill L 0-1 (0-2)
2: Aggro Loam W 1-1 (2-2)
3: Merfolk W 2-1 (4-2)
4: Pattern of Rebirth L 2-2 (4-4)
5: Merfolk W 3-2 (6-4)
6: BW Deadguy W 4-2 (8-5)
7: UW Stoneblade W 5-2 (10-6)
8: Zoo W 6-2 (11-7, opponent game loss for sideboarding error)
9: BW Deadguy W 7-2 (13-7)

[Rizso]

Hope you are able to write a report as well. Always sweet to read reports.

[FlyingSkull13]

I also played Dead Guy Ale in the scg boston

placed 37th

1:dredge W 2-1
2:GW hatebears W 2-0
3:stone blade L 1-2
4:HiveMind L 1-2(also got gameloss for gatekeeper of MALAKIR
5:Goblins(splash blue for mistep) W 2-1
6:Fish W2-1
7:Fish W2-1
8:UWB stoneblade win 2-1
9:the mirror (with guy 2 posts above) L 0-2

props: the deck was perfect for the enviroment
the judges made good decisions and rounds started within decent time
bitterblossum is a house when it resolves against control
slops: feeling my game falling apart under the pressure
missing out on swordsing a vendilan click and winning a match
feel like i was coned into choosing cards from a hym to tourach off a die roll
the 5 hour drive between going and getttin home.

[KobeBryan]

I also played Dead Guy Ale in the scg boston

placed 37th

1:dredge W 2-1
2:GW hatebears W 2-0
3:stone blade L 1-2
4:HiveMind L 1-2(also got gameloss for gatekeeper of MALAKIR
5:Goblins(splash blue for mistep) W 2-1
6:Fish W2-1
7:Fish W2-1
8:UWB stoneblade win 2-1
9:the mirror (with guy 2 posts above) L 0-2

props: the deck was perfect for the enviroment
the judges made good decisions and rounds started within decent time
bitterblossum is a house when it resolves against control
slops: feeling my game falling apart under the pressure
missing out on swordsing a vendilan click and winning a match
feel like i was coned into choosing cards from a hym to tourach off a die roll
the 5 hour drive between going and getttin home.

Who is that brave soul who played goblins?

[Einherjer]

Why dont you two write some report? WOuld be very nice :)

[bfeingersh]

Alright, here's a short report/extended notes. It's been a couple days and I don't have notes so I'm just going to wing it.

EDIT: Nevermind, this isn't a short report, haha.

Here's the list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tidehollow Sculler

2 Bitterblossom

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind

1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Go for the Throat

4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Fetid Heath
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
1 Plains

Board:
2 Duress
2 Perish
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Bitterblossom
2 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb

Round 1: UW Landstill L 0-1 (0-2)

Game 1 I'm on the play and keep 5 lands, GFTT, Stoneforge Mystic. Not a good hand but probably okay if he's anything but combo, and better than risking it on 6. I usually tend towards mulliganning (PV style) but with the changes to the list, that is, cutting Chrome Moxen for spells and not upping my land count, I thought it would be best to just hit land drops. He leads basic island go, and I don't play out my Mystic in fear of Daze/Snare. I Waste his Colonnade. We play land go for a while and he sticks a Crucible. I go for the Vindicate and he counters it. We play land go for a while but I run out of lands and still have few action spells. I wanted to wait to draw 1 or 2 more business spells so I could just run them out and hopefully one would stick. Eventually I go for it, my Mystic and Confidant both get countered and he plays a Jace. I played way too cautiously in this game.

Game 2 I mull to 6 into 2 lands, Thoughtseize Hymn Hymn Top. I strip his hand and start topping, but he wastes one of my lands and I top into all my big spells, as he plays a Jace and starts upping him. I have no pressure so I soon lose to that.

Round 2: Aggro Loam W 1-1 (2-2)

Game 1 he's on the play with Fetch, Mox, Loam. Turn 2 Volrath's Stronghold and Knight of the Reliquary. This is not going to be a fun one, but I had 2 Swords to Plowshares in hand so as long as he doesn't dredge into creatures for a while I should be able to get some pressure going. He doesn't (just the KOTR and a Bob) and I ride a Bitterblossom and a Bob for a while.

I board in the Phyrexian Crusaders for something or other, thinking a Seismic Assault-proof guy is probably okay. Also, Perishes.

Game 2 I have an early Bitterblossom and Jitte active, with 2 Bobs, Perish and a Crusader in hand. He plays a Deed a couple turns later. I make my token, equip one and go to swing so he blows Deed on 2. I slam Bob and Crusader, next turn attack him to 2 poison, abandoning the damage plan with him on 10 or so. He plays a 7/8 Goyf (everything but Planeswalker) so we're stalled out a little. He's dredging, I'm drawing off Bob and find a second Crusader and a Sword of Body and Mind. I play them both but don't have mana to equip. He Burning Wishes for Shattering Spree and kills my Sword. I can't really swing into the Goyf so I wait for a couple removal spells. For some reason, he's not using his Volrath's Stronghold at all. Eventually I find a GFTT, kill the Goyf and put him to 6 poison, he finds Worm Harvest. He puts the Goyf back on top and plays Harvest for a billion, I show him the Perish and poison him in Great Yawgmoth's name.

I think if he had just kept putting Goyfs and Bobs in my way I would have lost that game easily, but he was much more intent on just dredging Loam and casting it 1-2 times a turn, and Wasting my few nonbasics. My favorite part of this deck, I think, is that I get to play 4 basics, and that number could be bigger but I like my miser's Karakas and Urborg :P

Round 3: Merfolk W 2-1 (4-2)

Game 1 is typical fare, I play a couple threats he can't deal with and kill his lords. Batterskull Jitte etc. etc.

I board in Ghostly Prison and Phyrexian Crusader for 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Hymn to Tourach.

I don't like hand disruption in most of the aggro matchups, especially decks like Zoo and Folk. They're very homogenous and your choices tend to be "do I take this lord or this other lord?" or "do I take this loam lion or this kird ape?"

Game 2 I have T1 top and he has Cursecatcher into Adept revealing Lord. Ouch. I top into land, Vindicate, Ghostly Prison. On 2 lands still I play a Bob which he doesn't Daze, and he hits me to 13 or so. I go for the Ghostly Prison assuming he doesn't have a counter, otherwise he would've stopped the Bob. He doesn't and it dominates the game. He never hits 4 mana, so he has a board of 3x Adept, 1x Lord, 1x Cursecatcher, so I keep him off Coralhelms and let Elspeth fly things for the win.

Round 4: Pattern of Rebirth L 2-2 (4-4)

Game 1 I mull to 6 and keep land, TS, IoK, SFM, Sculler, Vindicate or something like that. A mediocre hand but I'm on the draw and know he's playing combo (it was Felix Lapan, the guy who made that deck "famous"), so I assume the 2 early disruption spells will buy time to find a land. They buy some time, but not enough and I don't draw a land for like 7 turns and he kills me.

I board in the just Scullers and Perishes I think.

Game 2 I have a double Sculler draw and take his Mogg Fanatic and Body Double. I'm beating him down as we both draw primarily lands and hand disruption. Here's the situation.

Me: 15 life, 6 lands in play, Thoughtseize in hand, 2 Scullers in play with his Mogg Fanatic and Body Double.

Him: 4 life, no cards in hand, his board is Dryad Arbor that he's been beating with, Ancient Tomb, Fetch, and a dual or two. 3 Cabal Therapies in his graveyard.

I pass to him, content that I'll force the chump next turn and then kill him. I'm really worried about him drawing Natural Order, I'm not sure if he plays it though. He draws Reveillark and tanks for a couple minutes. He says "alright, let's try this" and casts Lark, going to 1 off Tomb/Fetch. Flashback Therapy 1 on Lark, getting back Academy Rector and Tinder Wall. Flashback Therapy 2 on Rector, getting Pattern of Rebirth on the Tinder Wall and taking my Thoughtseize. Sac Tinder Wall for RR, gets Protean Hulk. Flashback Therapy 3 on Hulk, getting Viscera Seer, Wild Cantor, Tinder Wall, Birds of Paradise, and Qasali Pridemage. He passes. I draw Stoneforge and get something. He EOT Pridemages my Sculler with the Body Double, then on his turn casts Body Double off the BoP, it comes in as a Lark, he sacrifices it to Viscera Seer to get itself and the Pridemage back, then kills my other Sculler to get his Mogg Fanatic and kills me.

We were both kind of shocked that it worked. Shoutouts to that guy, he really knows the ins and outs of his deck!

Round 5: Merfolk W 3-2 (6-4)

More standard Merfolk fare. We were talking afterwards and he said he didn't put enough Dismembers in his board. I think Merfolk should just run them main at this point.

Round 6: BW Deadguy W 4-2 (8-5)

This round is kind of hazy, but I remember my opponent drew really well in game 1.

Game 1 I TSed him and saw basically nothing, then he draws Stoneforge for Batterskull and I look at the IoK in my hand and groan.

Game 2 we both get down to no cards in hand but I have a top and that breaks the mirror!

Game 3 he mulligans, grumbles a little and leads on Wasteland. I snap Waste his Waste hoping he didn't have another land. He draws, and immediately puts the Scrubland he drew into play. Yes! I play some lands and he stalls for a few turns, and I play Elspeth and win from there.

Round 7: UW Stoneblade W 5-2 (10-6)

Game 1 is very drawn out. Early on I have all 3 of my equipment in play but nothing to put them on after he killed both my Mystic and Germ. I have a Bitterblossom for a while, we slam Batterskulls for a while, he plays a Jace and I play an Elspeth and grind it out for a while, and I win after about 35 minutes of back and forth. It was a sick game, sorry I don't remember too many specifics. We were talking about it afterwards and my opponent said he thinks Elspeth is the best Planeswalker in legacy right now, although Jace is better in UW Stoneblade specifically.

Game 2 I mulligan into a 2 land, couple business spells, couple discard spells hand. Too bad he has Spellstutter Sprites for my second discard spell and a Jace and Wastelands soon after. I scoop early to save time, as we're down to 10 minutes on the clock or so.

Game 3 I have a sweet hand. T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Hymn, T3 Hymn + Top, T4 Bob + Stoneforge. Yeah, we're in there. He puts up a fight but that draw was too nutty.

Side note: His deck was pretty sweet looking. He's one of the SCG judges usually so all his Wastelands, Vendilion Cliques, etc. were judge foiled, and his Stoneforge Mystics were altered: http://i.imgur.com/V7HNw.jpg

Round 8: Zoo W 6-2 (11-7)

We get a pre-round deck check. It's taking a strangely long amount of time so my opponent goes to the restroom. He comes back and the judges inform him that he got a game loss for having a sideboard card in his main. I get a warning for marked cards, as my sleeves were very dirty (I've been using the same ones for a few months and I just really like them!). Two of my friends who are judges looked at my sleeves after the round and were appalled that the guy gave me a warning for them. They said I should appeal, but I didn't really care as I was replacing my sleeves and I was sure it wouldn't happen again. It didn't.

Anyway, so we go to game 2, he leads on Fetch Taiga Nacatl. I needed that game loss bad! I Swords it, Inquisition something else, but he has a very homogenous hand (as mentioned before) and he's beating me down with a Loam Lion and Goblin Guide. He has 1 in hand and I play a Stoneforge for Batterskull, too bad that last card was a Bolt and I die :(

I board Perish even though it seems he's playing the faster, R/W version of Zoo. I also bring in Ghostly Prison and Phyrexian Crusader.

Game 3 I have the sweet draw of T1 IoK, T2 Stoneforge for Jitte, T3 Crusader. He can't attack with his Goblin Guide or Nacatl. He keeps throwing burn at my face but Crusader + Jitte gets in there. On his turn he attacks with the Goblin Guide and I intend to chump with SFM as I'm getting to a precarious life total despite the Jitte having 2 counters. So I block. Then I start to move my SFM to the bin when I realize I could have just shrunk the Guide. Derp. I say that I'll shrink the Guide, but we agree it's too late to save the Mystic. My opponent calls a judge anyway and seems quite tilted after the game loss and realizing the McDevastating combo of Pro Red/White against a Red/White deck and Jitte, but I say that I fucked up and I have to live with my mistake. He thanks me for doing the honest thing and I kill him in a couple turns FOR GREAT YAWGMOTH. I felt bad as I hate sloppy play like that but I was tired at this point and hadn't had anything to eat all day.

Round 9: BW Deadguy W 7-2 (13-7)

I was hoping we could draw into top 32, but our breakers were poopy (31st and 32nd place before round) so we play it out. I don't really know how the pairings/breakers system works so I would rather play it safe, confident that I can earn my $60 store credit. I don't believe these were very close matches but they're kind of hazy. I remember Flyingskull made 1 huge mistake of casting SFM with 1 other card in hand to get his Batterskull, then immediately getting Hymn to Tourached, then unfortunately drawing lands.

Game 2 he mulligans and I think he opened on Wasteland, which I Wasteland. He then played Swamp, Dark Ritual Dark Confidant, which I killed on my turn. Eventually, Elspeth happened. It was odd to see him playing both Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual as I specifically cut both of those over the past couple weeks!


Shoutouts:
- My opponents being all pretty cool people and the deck doing pretty well.
- The event for running smoothly.
- Elspeth, for being my BFF.
- Yawgmoth, for in his great name I have Compleated and infected the unworthy and foul flesh beasts.
- Dredge, for not showing up so I wasn't sad about cutting more graveyard hate :D

Slops:
- My rds. 1 and 4 opponents for scrubbing out after beating me so I didn't make top 16!
- Pandora, for giving us lots of Yeah Yeah Yeahs remixes on the way home. Karen O sucks.
- The DCI pairings/breakers system for being confusing. I play Street Fighter and we just use a double elimination bracket that's easy to figure out.

[Rizso]

Great rapport. Nice to see that the Crusaders came to good use.

To post below. wow, Thanks for that great contribution of nothing.

[funyun45]

rap·port   [ra-pawr, -pohr, ruh-]
noun
relation; connection, especially harmonious or sympathetic relation: a teacher trying to establish close rapport with students.

I believe the word you are looking for is:

re·port   [ri-pawrt, -pohrt]
noun
1. an account or statement describing in detail an event, situation, or the like, usually as the result of observation, inquiry, etc.: a report on the peace conference; a medical report on the patient.
2. a statement or announcement.
3. a widely circulated statement or item of news; rumor; gossip.
4. an account of a speech, debate, meeting, etc., especially as taken down for publication.

[Einherjer]

Thank you for the great report.
Stfu funyun, no one cares.

Have you really not be missing any acceleration? I think i cant play properly without my Chrome Moxes :)

[funyun45]

Stfu funyun, no one cares.

Now that's no way to establish a report with someone.

[CorpT]

Now that's no way to establish a report with someone.

If you keep that up, I'm going to rapport you to the mods.

[FlyingSkull13]

This was really my first tournament with the deck, I switched to it less than an hour before it started. I was going to run Reanimator, but I thought a friend of mine was going to run this deck, and when he decided to Pack to Power, I took back the deck I lent him and decided to gamble. He had made some modifications to the deck, it was the one out of scg Louisville.

2 Chrome Mox
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of body and mind
1 BatterSkull

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 go for the throats

Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sorceries
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
Basic Lands
1 Plains
2 Swamp

Lands
2 arid mesa
2 bloodstained mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
3 leyline of void
1 tomod's crypt
1 go for the throat
1 jitte
2 forge tenders
2 gate keeper of malakir
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Perish
3 Bitterblossom


This deck is one of the most card advantage decks i've had the pleasure of using. Its not just about drawing cards, or using discard spells to strip your opponent, but the fact that every spell needs to be answered. Now after saying all of this lets get on to the report.

Round 1: Dredge 2-1
As I sat down for this match, i said to myself, i'm probably playing dredge this round. Sure enough after i win the die roll, i play thoughtseize, see a bunch of dredgers, and i take his putrid imp. He draws another, and starts his engine, i cant keep up and lose game 1. I side in 3 leylines and a tomods. Game 2 i start with leyline, and I thoughtseize and take his discard outlet, I waste his city of brass, and i get a clock on him and beat him down. Game 3, I mulligan to 6 and keep a decent hand, but no leylines nor crypts. I thoughtseize and take his outlet again. He hardcasts a nacroba, and i waste his city of brass. From there i just beat him down and win.

Round 2: G/W hateorade 2-0
My opponent was a good guy, He played some hatebears, i had lots of removal, and hym taking his big men, i get a sword of body and mind on a confidant and ride it to victory. Sideboarding, i switch swords and bring in my go for the throats. These were good all day long. Game 2, i thoughtseize him, taking his turn 2 play, and proceed to kill every one of his guys. I drop top and a bob and quickly win.

Round 3: stoneblade L 1-2
This round was a really good match, i just punted because of nerves and experience. I win Game one with bob swinging a sword. I side in Bitterblossum, these were amazing all day long. Game 2, I manage to get myself into an amazing board position, but i'm at 3 life, i go for it and Bob kills me. Game 3, I miss swordsing a clique when he went to bounce it with the wizard land, and he forces my equipment. After that i proceed to brick draw step after drawstep. I resolved a bitterblossum, if i had drawn any equipment, i win this game. he gets jace out and kills me with batterskull token.

Round 4:Hivemind
As we sit down, I had literally, 2 minutes between rounds, so I was de-sideboarding. I wasnt sure if i had done it correctly, when the polite judge walks over and asks us for our decks. I hand it over and watch him walk away, we chat about how even with a gameloss i could battle back, i even said, if he's playing hivemind, he'll probably win the game anyways. Turns out i did add Malakir to gatekeeper in my maindeck, but did it in my sideboard. I get a game loss, I procede to win "game 2" with a vindicate on his third land, and a Thoughtseize. Game 3, I've seen the "tec" of leyline of santity, so when i open a hand of no discard but a vindicate and a wasteland, i tell him I'm rolling the dice. He had leyline, but even after i vindicated his land, he went off on turn 3 anyways and i died to pact. After this match, I'm on full tilt, and i try my best to calm down and get ready for backbreaking round 5


Round 5:Goblins (splash blue)
Game 1: he plays a lackey and i kept a hand that did not have a kill spell nor a thoughtseize, it had bob and a stoneforge. he hits and i ask for seigegang commander? I get a goblin lord instead that makes them cheaper. I proceed to get blown out. Games 2 and 3: i side in more removal and i draw it and deal with his forces. Game 3 i went all in on Obliterator. i get a bob into play with a Sofai that can equip and kill him. He's out of outs and he dies.

Round 6 and 7:Fish (merfolk)
My friend said on tuesday that He has not lost a single match to merfolk with this deck. After only dropping 2 games to fish through 2 matches, i'll say we have the advantage. Bitterblossum was excellent, and i sided out Hymms due to fear of misdirection. I played tight and i won both matches.

Round 8:UWB stoneblade
He proceeds to styfle everything i try to do and counter it, he wins on back of stoneforge equipped with a batterskull. Game 2 i resolve a bitterblossum and get a jitte into play, I win this game. Game 3 was against the clock with less than 8 minutes remaining. I get another bitterblossum into play, and i get Sword of Feast and Famine. I skip the untap trigger, due to him not having a hand and got warned by a judge. This was first time using the sword, I win this match with less than a minute remaining in the round.

Round 9:Mirror match
At this point, its win and in. I went all in on a hymm in game 1 and proceed to get wrecked by bitterblossum, we both agreed that it was awesome all day long. Game 2, I keep a one land hand with wasteland as only one, and proceed to get a couple of land into play, i try to make a game of it, but he quickly over powers me and that is it.

I finish 37th out of 180ish. This deck has allot of potential, and I made some sub optimal plays. If I had time to test this deck, I would have won Round 3. All of my opponents were decent people and good players. I hope next event that I go to, I get to pilot this deck again. Thanks for the reading.

[FlyingSkull13]

This was really my first tournament with the deck, I switched to it less than an hour before it started. I was going to run Reanimator, but I thought a friend of mine was going to run this deck, and when he decided to Pack to Power, I took back the deck I lent him and decided to gamble. He had made some modifications to the deck, it was the one out of scg Louisville.

2 Chrome Mox
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of body and mind
1 BatterSkull

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 go for the throats

Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sorceries
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
Basic Lands
1 Plains
2 Swamp

Lands
2 arid mesa
2 bloodstained mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
3 leyline of void
1 tomod's crypt
1 go for the throat
1 jitte
2 forge tenders
2 gate keeper of malakir
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Perish
3 Bitterblossom


This deck is one of the most card advantage decks i've had the pleasure of using. Its not just about drawing cards, or using discard spells to strip your opponent, but the fact that every spell needs to be answered. Now after saying all of this lets get on to the report.

Round 1: Dredge 2-1
As I sat down for this match, i said to myself, i'm probably playing dredge this round. Sure enough after i win the die roll, i play thoughtseize, see a bunch of dredgers, and i take his putrid imp. He draws another, and starts his engine, i cant keep up and lose game 1. I side in 3 leylines and a tomods. Game 2 i start with leyline, and I thoughtseize and take his discard outlet, I waste his city of brass, and i get a clock on him and beat him down. Game 3, I mulligan to 6 and keep a decent hand, but no leylines nor crypts. I thoughtseize and take his outlet again. He hardcasts a nacroba, and i waste his city of brass. From there i just beat him down and win.

Round 2: G/W hateorade 2-0
My opponent was a good guy, He played some hatebears, i had lots of removal, and hym taking his big men, i get a sword of body and mind on a confidant and ride it to victory. Sideboarding, i switch swords and bring in my go for the throats. These were good all day long. Game 2, i thoughtseize him, taking his turn 2 play, and proceed to kill every one of his guys. I drop top and a bob and quickly win.

Round 3: stoneblade L 1-2
This round was a really good match, i just punted because of nerves and experience. I win Game one with bob swinging a sword. I side in Bitterblossum, these were amazing all day long. Game 2, I manage to get myself into an amazing board position, but i'm at 3 life, i go for it and Bob kills me. Game 3, I miss swordsing a clique when he went to bounce it with the wizard land, and he forces my equipment. After that i proceed to brick draw step after drawstep. I resolved a bitterblossum, if i had drawn any equipment, i win this game. he gets jace out and kills me with batterskull token.

Round 4:Hivemind
As we sit down, I had literally, 2 minutes between rounds, so I was de-sideboarding. I wasnt sure if i had done it correctly, when the polite judge walks over and asks us for our decks. I hand it over and watch him walk away, we chat about how even with a gameloss i could battle back, i even said, if he's playing hivemind, he'll probably win the game anyways. Turns out i did add Malakir to gatekeeper in my maindeck, but did it in my sideboard. I get a game loss, I procede to win "game 2" with a vindicate on his third land, and a Thoughtseize. Game 3, I've seen the "tec" of leyline of santity, so when i open a hand of no discard but a vindicate and a wasteland, i tell him I'm rolling the dice. He had leyline, but even after i vindicated his land, he went off on turn 3 anyways and i died to pact. After this match, I'm on full tilt, and i try my best to calm down and get ready for backbreaking round 5


Round 5:Goblins (splash blue)
Game 1: he plays a lackey and i kept a hand that did not have a kill spell nor a thoughtseize, it had bob and a stoneforge. he hits and i ask for seigegang commander? I get a goblin lord instead that makes them cheaper. I proceed to get blown out. Games 2 and 3: i side in more removal and i draw it and deal with his forces. Game 3 i went all in on Obliterator. i get a bob into play with a Sofai that can equip and kill him. He's out of outs and he dies.

Round 6 and 7:Fish (merfolk)
My friend said on tuesday that He has not lost a single match to merfolk with this deck. After only dropping 2 games to fish through 2 matches, i'll say we have the advantage. Bitterblossum was excellent, and i sided out Hymms due to fear of misdirection. I played tight and i won both matches.

Round 8:UWB stoneblade
He proceeds to styfle everything i try to do and counter it, he wins on back of stoneforge equipped with a batterskull. Game 2 i resolve a bitterblossum and get a jitte into play, I win this game. Game 3 was against the clock with less than 8 minutes remaining. I get another bitterblossum into play, and i get Sword of Feast and Famine. I skip the untap trigger, due to him not having a hand and got warned by a judge. This was first time using the sword, I win this match with less than a minute remaining in the round.

Round 9:Mirror match
At this point, its win and in. I went all in on a hymm in game 1 and proceed to get wrecked by bitterblossum, we both agreed that it was awesome all day long. Game 2, I keep a one land hand with wasteland as only one, and proceed to get a couple of land into play, i try to make a game of it, but he quickly over powers me and that is it.

I finish 37th out of 180ish. This deck has allot of potential, and I made some sub optimal plays. If I had time to test this deck, I would have won Round 3. All of my opponents were decent people and good players. I hope next event that I go to, I get to pilot this deck again. Thanks for the reading.

[Rizso]

Nice to read report before bed and not only me that is enjoying the phyrexian Obliterator. :D

[lyracian]

Round 9:Mirror match
At this point, its win and in. I went all in on a hymm in game 1 and proceed to get wrecked by bitterblossum, we both agreed that it was awesome all day long. Game 2, I keep a one land hand with wasteland as only one, and proceed to get a couple of land into play, i try to make a game of it, but he quickly over powers me and that is it.
Nice report, congratulations on doing so well. Having played the Mirror-Match do you think you would make any changes to your deck? Was a singleton Top really of use?

[FlyingSkull13]

every time i drew top, it was amazing, and top + bot or fetch is really, really good. The mirror match, i think bitterblossom is the key, due to fact that removal for creatures becomes so bad. The deck was a blast to play, and it had some explosive draws. I liked my opponents build in the last round, that deck just seemed like a better build in general, i'm going to talk to my friends and tinker with it. There is a tourney at Die Hard Games on sept. 18th. I think i'm going to play this, but we'll see what changes we make. Thanks you guys for your ideas and thoughts. Its like having a strategy guide for a video game that adapts as you play it.

[Rizso]

Lucky this thread is very active and is kept on going. So changes gets updated very often here.

Changed my manabase from before not much but still

3 Chrome Mox
5 Swamps
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
4 Scrublands
1 Fetid Heath
4 Wastelands

Added the Urborg in favor of the 6th swamp it makes BBB and BBBB cost for gatekeeper and Phyrexian Obliterator alot easier to cast when you happend to draw many wastelands. I run only 12 white cards and no WW costed ones.

[movingtonewao]

flyingskull, just curious, why did you choose to use sword of feast and famine was it a meta choice? I think we had a discussion about swords before and many agreed that feast and famine was the worst, so since you've played with it i'd like to hear your thoughts.

i'm going for a tournament this sunday and i'm bringing sobam in MD and soWAP in the SB. Wonder if i should trade the sowap for a sword of fire and ice.

[FlyingSkull13]

yes, but sword feast and famine has pro green, and allot of decks are bring green creatures, it gets your guys through, i think u/g sword is exellent right now, protection from jace is good

[Rizso]

Feast and Famine is stronger then Light and Shadow just saying. Feast and Famine is one of the swords I miss having in the 75, that untap lands trigger is so strong.

Maybe will change that sword of war and peace in my board for it as Crusader + jitte wins the zoo matchups. Of all the swords atm I like Sword of Body and Mind the most.

[movingtonewao]

i think the effect of sword of war and peace is stronger than it looks. In a deck where we have lifeloss from bitterblossom and dark confidant...the gain life part can help bolster the other gain life sources (jitte and batterskull). The alternative I'm actually considering is sword of fire and ice. I have 3 perish in my board, so if your reason for feast and famine is to get your guys through green creatures, I think I shouldn't be considering it.

[FlyingSkull13]

i think it depends on your board, but i will say this, feast and famine very important for the mirror and other black creature decks

[Al-ucard]

I'm playing this deck during the last month and I have to say that I like it a lot. But I don't understand why everyone says that chrome mox are not needed. It's true that now the format is more control oriented with so many Blade Control decks but against more aggro oriented decks like GW Zenith, merfolks, Zoo and Goblins we need this acceleration, don't you think?

I will try to test without them but if we quit them, first we need more lands and then more targeted removal since I say myself a lot of times playing against GW zenith with gatekeeper in hand and opponent with so many creatures in play that is completely useful.

I will test this list:

23 Lands
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Scrubland (only have 3)
2 Fetid Heath
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

10 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mirran Crusader

27 Others
4 Hymn to tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to plowshares
3 Go for the Throath
3 Vindicate
3 Bitterblossom
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind

60 Total

I'm a little afraid on losing bodies quitting the gatekeepers... Thoughts?

[movingtonewao]

The body count is fine, don't forget that bitterblossom counts as a "body" as well.

Are black creature decks popular in the current metagame? I thought Show and Tell and various UW stoneblades were wrecking havoc in the starcitygames opens.

[Rizso]

Well, you hopefully got perish going into the game 2 and 3 against the GW maverick decks. Also Mortarpod or Darkblast against the infinte 1 thoughtness creatures GW-maverick got.

As removal I run:
3 Mental misstep, 4 1cc discards 4 hymns, 4 Gatekeepers, 4 Swords to plowshares, 4 vindicates, removal from board 2 Perish, 1 Manriki-Gusari, 1 mortarpod. Also against GW-Maverick Relic of Progenitus does make you able to trade any 2 power creature for a Knight of the Reliquary. With some discards hopefully can get some of the heavier creatures before able to be casted.

Need to get a Drawing engine going they have more threats, so way to go is to 2 for 1 them as much as possible and kill every Knight of the Reliquary and Mother of Runes.

[movingtonewao]

going for a tournament tmr. Expecting lots of zoo so SOBAM is in my MD and SOWAP in my SB. Will try to make a report when i get back.

[Rizso]

going for a tournament tmr. Expecting lots of zoo so SOBAM is in my MD and SOWAP in my SB. Will try to make a report when i get back.

If you are expecting alot of zoo, do you have Phyrexian Crusader in your board?

[Leto]

I will also enter a tournament tommorow.

This will be played


// Lands
3 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vampire Nighthawk

// Spells
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Mental Misstep
3 Duress
2 Go for the Throat

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Perish
SB: 1 Planar Void
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Tariff
SB: 1 Ghostly Prison


In general my usual List with some tweaks. First time I use MM and I am curios how it will work. CC1 Discard is TS/Duress because everyone fetches Equipments and GSZ and NO and Hivemind... IoK is atm no option in this deck. I am well aware that the mood atm is against Nighthawk and everybody is playing some sort of Crusaders or BB in this spot, but I like them, and they won me more than a couple of games, so they stay (+ I was studying the most of the last 2 Month for my exams and simply hadn't enough time to test and practice with bigger changes in the Deck)

Sideboard is Tutorboard with answers to most archetypes (emphasis on Green Aggro -> GW Maverick, Zoo, Elves with Perish, two Tariff in Addition for Emmy)

[Aadz0r]

Ran a BWr list in a Legacy Star City Games Invitational Qualifier. It was my first real legacy tournament and made quite some minor misplays. Would've made top 8 had I won against Junk at 4-1 as I would've definitely been able to draw the last match, but got mana screwed game 1 and mana flooded game 2. Ended up 4-3. The deck is definitely a lot of fun to play.

I am extremely happy I decided to run red as Lavamancer is so extremely awesome. Also, even though it is very good, I hate running Chrome Moxes, so I was happy to cut them. REB in the board is also great. I ran the following list:

Land (22)
1x Swamp
4x Scrubland
4x Badlands
2x Plateau
4x Marsh Flats
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wasteland

Artifact (4):
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Creatures (14):
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Dark Confidant
2x Mirran Crusader

Instant (6):
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Lightning Bolt

Sorcery (12)
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Vindicate

Enchantment (2)
2x Bitterblossom


Sideboard (15)
2x Relic of Progentius
3x Phyrexian Crusader
1x Darkblast
3x Extirpate
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Perish


I feel the list is good, but not yet optimal. Any tips will be greatly appreciated..

[FlyingSkull13]

the splash of red is interesting

[KobeBryan]

How does this deck fare against NO Rug.

[2Rach]

Sideboard four Perishes. Play Mirran Crusaders and maybe Phyrexian Obliterators main. You'll do well.

[Einherjer]

HI guys, Ill show you my peak(because i need BBB and WW) Deadguy Ale-List. Tell me what you think of it.

4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Scrubland
3 Fetid Heath
1 Plains
5 Swamp
3 Wasteland

4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic

3 Bitterblossom
3 Chrome Mox
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress



And I will enter a tournament on Wendesday where I expect alot of NO RUG, GW and Stoneblade. Do you think this list is ok battling this archetypes?

Thank you

[Einherjer]

HI guys, Ill show you my peak(because i need BBB and WW) Deadguy Ale-List. Tell me what you think of it.

4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Scrubland
3 Fetid Heath
1 Plains
5 Swamp
3 Wasteland

4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic

3 Bitterblossom
3 Chrome Mox
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress



And I will enter a tournament on Wendesday where I expect alot of NO RUG, GW and Stoneblade. Do you think this list is ok battling this archetypes?

Thank you

[KobeBryan]

HI guys, Ill show you my peak(because i need BBB and WW) Deadguy Ale-List. Tell me what you think of it.

4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Scrubland
3 Fetid Heath
1 Plains
5 Swamp
3 Wasteland

4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic

3 Bitterblossom
3 Chrome Mox
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress



And I will enter a tournament on Wendesday where I expect alot of NO RUG, GW and Stoneblade. Do you think this list is ok battling this archetypes?

Thank you

Drop the Chrome Mox. The consensus is that this isn't that good of a card in this deck

[bfeingersh]

Phillipp, I would cut Chrome Mox if you feel comfortable with it. Change the Duresses for either Thoughtseizes or Inquisitions, or a split. I would also do -2 Swamp, +1 Plains +1 Wasteland.

[movingtonewao]

Second tournament report. I did worse than the last time by a large margin, but I'm posting the details here anyway.

Deck

3 swamp
2 snow-covered swamp
2 plains
4 wasteland
4 marsh flats
1 verdant catacombs
1 bloodstained mire
4 scrubland


4 stoneforge mystic
4 dark confidant
2 gatekeeper of malakir
3 tidehollow sculler
3 inquisition of kozilek
3 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
3 swords to plowshares
4 vindicate
1 diabolic edict


4 bitterblossom
1 batterskull
1 sword of body and mind
1 umezawa's jitte
1 elspeth, knight-errant

Sideboard
1 swords to plowshares
1 sword of war and peace
3 phyrexian crusader
3 extirpate
3 perish
1 thoughtseize
1 diabolic edict
1 disenchant

Legacy Tournament 28/8/11
Turnout: 32
Format: 5 swiss rounds with cut to T8

prizes:
Volcanic Island, Wasteland, Verdant Catacombs for top8

Match 1: 4 color control with punishing fire-grove of the burnwillows

Game 1 (I was on the draw)

T1
Opponent suspends ancestral vision, I Inquisition of kozilek and see swords to plowshares, engineered explosives, brainstorm, volcanic island, force of will. I take the engineered explosives.

T2
He lays land and passes. I play dark confidant, he uses brainstorm in response and allows it to resolve.

T3
He lays land and passes. Dark Confidant reveals a stoneforge mystic and goes to town, I play a postcombat bitterblossom which hits counterspell, and then another end of turn brainstorm.

T4 and beyond
He goes nuts after the Ancestral Vision resolves. Swords to plowshares on Dark Confidant and then Vedalken Shackles hits. He suspends another Ancestral Vision. I try a Stoneforge Mystic which nets a Force of Will removing Daze. Jace, the mind sculptor hits and mops up.

SB: -3 swords to plowshares, -2 gatekeeper of malakir, +3 extirpate, +1 thoughtseize, +1 disenchant

Game 2:
He mulligans once this game.

T1
Inquisition of Kozilek reveals that he's keeping a 1-lander with brainstorm, so I strip the brainstorm. I also see firespout in his hand.

T2 and beyond
Stoneforge mystic into Sword of Body and Mind and I ride it home.

Game 3:
This game goes long and goes to time. A total of 3 ancestral visions resolved. Engineered explosives traded with Bitterblossom tokens, Dark Confidant, Stoneforge Mystic trade with Daze, Force of Will and Counterspell and he eventually gets a mountain of mana and rides his Grove of the Burnwillows-Punishing Fire to victory. I strip him of Tropical Island and Tundra somewhere around turn 7 using extirpate, which was a wrong move because firstly, at first I was putting him on NO RUG up to this point, secondly, upon seeing his deck after the first extirpate resolved, I went for tundra to deny him the ability to cast any Elspeth, knight-errant, Gideon Jura or Baneslayer Angel (which I found to be his wincons other than jace the mind sculptor) and I underestimated the Grove of the Burnwillows-Punishing Fire engine, which eventually killed me 1 damage at a time. With Vedalken Shackles and multiple Engineered Explosives to ensure my board stays clean, this was truly death by a thousand stings.

1-2 (0-1)

Thoughts:

On hindsight I should have used my 2 extirpates on his Punishing Fire and something else instead (maybe jace), I could definitely deal with the Baneslayer and Gideon Jura as I had vindicate and diabolic edict. I didn't know how to play against his build so made suboptimal decisions. Also this matchup made me wonder if I should consider Chains of Mephistopheles as a sideboard option. If anyone has any opinion on this please let me know.

Match 2: mirror match!!! (unexpected)

Game 1 (I was on the play)
We both mulligan to 6.

T1
I lay a land and pass. He goes big with land and chrome mox (removing vindicate) and then plays a hymn to tourach (hitting a scrubland and a hymn to tourach).

T2
Well too bad for him because I kept a hand with 3 lands, bitterblossom and 2 hymn to tourach, so I duly hymn to tourach him back this turn to nail a marsh flats and a gatekeeper of malakir. He plays a dark confidant on his turn.

T3
I draw a Swords to Plowshares and use it on his dark confidant, perfectly aware that chrome mox set him down on CA and that I should not let him get it back. He doesn't have a play this turn.

T4
I lay Stoneforge Mystic digging for Batterskull, and he rips a wasteland and hits my only white source (scrubland), he lays a umezawa's jitte.

T5
I wasteland his duel and I can't play Batterskull. The other cards in my hand are swords to plowshares, so I just swing and pass. He thoughtseizes me and drops my Batterskull.

T6
I lay a topdecked bitterblossom, and swing with stoneforge mystic. He draws and passes.

T7
Same motions. He lays a topdecked sensei's divining top.

T8
Same motions (swing with all). He lays a dark confidant which I allow.

T9
I wasteland his scrubland and swing my stoneforge mystic and two tokens, he is low on life and trades his dark confidant with my stoneforge mystic. He plays another dark confidant.

T10 and beyond
More attacking on my end with tokens. More furious digging with sensei's divining top for him. He equips jitte and swings, I have no white source so I can't swords to plowshares, so i trade a token with him. He kills 2 tokens with the umezawa's jitte. Eventually he runs out of life when top finds nothing.

SB: -3 tidehollow sculler, -1 sword of body and mind, -1 vindicate, +3 phyrexian crusader, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 diabolic edict

Game 2 (I was on the draw)

T1
land and no play for both players

T2
He plays stoneforge mystic into Umezawa's jitte.
I play a bitterblossom.

T3
He dark rituals into umezawa's jitte, equips and goes to town.With the last mana he uses thoughtseize and takes away my batterskull.
I kick a gatekeeper of malakir that i topdecked, his stoneforge mystic goes to graveyard. He uses 1 jitte counter to kill my faerie token.

T4
He kicks a gatekeeper of malakir to kill my gatekeeper of malakir. I have nothing interesting but creature-kill spells and simply wasteland his scrubland.

T5
He uses the last jitte counter to darkblast my faerie token, doesn't equip jitte and swings. My hand at this point was diabolic edict, phyrexian crusader, swords to plowshares and swords to plowshares, I plowshares the gatekeeper anyway. He dark rituals into batterskull. I draw land and lay land.

T6
He uses hymn to tourach on my 3 card hand, so I diabolic edict in response so the germ token dies. I have to drop swords to plowshares and phyrexian crusader though. I lay a topdecked phyrexian crusader.

T7
He plays elspeth, knight-errant and makes a token. Now his board is batterskull, elspeth knight errant, soldier token, umezawa's jitte. I have a phyrexian crusader. I draw a vindicate. Hes tapped out. I ponder for a long time before using it on elspeth knight errant. (Is this the right play? Should I have vindicated the umezawa's jitte or batterskull instead? Please let me know)

T8
no action of note.

T9
He bounces and replays batterskull. I tidehollow sculler and nail a swords to plowshares.

T10
He equips batterskull's germ token with jitte and swings. I trade with 4 faeries. He wastelands my scrubland and uses the 2 tokens to kill my phyrexian crusader. I topdeck a Dark Confidant and play it.

T11
He swings again with the batterskull-jitte-germ. Kills the tidehollow sculler i played on T9 to get back swords to plowshares and uses it on my dark confidant. I'm desperately hoping for an answer to the batterskull-jitte-germ.

T12 and beyond
no answer = gg

Game 3 (I was on the play)

I thought I had a good hand with 2 bitterblossoms and lands, however after playing 2 bitterblossoms down, he ripped an engineered plague from the top naming faerie, and it went downhill from there.

1-2 (0-2)

Thoughts:

I should've just swung in in game 2, T7-9 with the phyrexian crusader and other stuff, I fell to jedi-mind tricks that there was a germ token on the batterskull when there was not! I only realized this after the game. He kept touching his batterskull and i thought there was a germ on it, but never asked. On hindsight, if he had a germ on it he would've swung in earlier.

Bearing that in mind, I'd love to hear whether the vindicate target on T7 in g2 was the right one.

Match 3: Jin-and-tonic Reanimator

Game 1 (I was on the draw)

T1:
Swamp, entomb, iona, shield of emeria in grave.
Swamp, go.

T2:
island, exhume, get back iona, shield of emeria naming black, shows me a grip of 2x force of will, daze, brainstorm = GG.

SB: -4 hymn to tourach, -1 elspeth, knight-errant, -1 sword of body and mind, +1 thoughtseize, +3 extirpate, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 diabolic edict

Game 2 (I was on the play)
He mulligans to 6.

T1:
I inquisition of kozilek and see a hand of entomb, exhume, reanimate, exhume, lands. I take entomb. He seems pretty unhappy. He draws and passes.

T2:
Tidehollow sculler shows that he drew a sphinx of the steel wind. I pick that.

T3 and beyond:
Tidehollow sculler gets joined by some friends (Dark Confidant and Bitterblossom) while he struggles to get something into the yard. GG.

Game 3 (I was on the draw)

This game was a breeze because I had a god hand of extirpate, extirpate, extirpate, swamp, tidehollow sculler, swords to plowshares, diabolic edict. Even though I had only 1 land, with 3 extirpate I couldn't really go wrong. It helped that I topdecked a scrubland HEHEHEH IN YOUR FACE.

At one point he had sundering titan in the yard and cast exhume, I extirpated it in response, and managed to get back my dark confidant (that he used force of will on earlier). That was a slap to the face for him i guess.

2-0 (1-2)

Thoughts:

Not much to say? G1 was a blowout. G2 the T1 inquisition of kozilek for entomb was crucial. G3 I got insanely lucky with the opening hand.

Match 4: Dredge (against my good friend WX a.k.a stubbornone whose report at the same tournament can be read here (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7207996&postcount=1612))

Game 1 (I was on the play)

I kept a hand with scrubland, wasteland, marsh flats, dark confidant, stoneforge mystic, elspeth, knight-errant, and vindicate

T1
I lay a scrubland, he draws and discards Golgari grave troll.

T2
I draw a tidehollow sculler. I think for a bit and lay a wasteland and a dark confidant.

He dredges for 6 and hits a narcomoeba (and also a darkblast in yard). He plays a gemstone mine.


T3
I reveal a hymn to tourach and go down to 18. I draw a Swords to Plowshares. I use Marsh flats for Swamp and go down to 17. I use the wasteland i played on T2 to hit the gemstone mine, and then play the tidehollow sculler, seeing a grip of Golgari grave troll, stinkweed imp, stinkweed imp, city of brass, city of brass, cephalid coliseum. That's a lot of dredgers! I pick golgari grave troll and pass.

He dredges darkblast, lays city of brass, taps it to darkblast my dark confidant and he's now on 19.

T4
I draw a stoneforge mystic and cast it getting a Umezawa's jitte. I go to town with the tidehollow sculler to put him on 17.

He dredges darkblast, casts the cephalid coliseum and cracks it and dredges golgari thug, and draw 2 cards, getting a narcomoeba in the process and also a bridge from below + cabal therapy in the yard, he then discards 2 stinkweed imps and 1 ichorid, he sacrifices narcomoeba to flashback cabal therapy naming umezawa's jitte, stripping my hand of the jitte and getting a 2/2 zombie in the process.

T5
I play a marsh flats and fetch a scrubland, going down to 17, I cast vindicate on the city of brass for kicks, swing with the tidehollow sculler and he opts not to block with the zombie token and goes down to 15.

He pays the cost to get back 1 ichorid removing a putrid imp in the yard, dredges a stinkweed imp which flips another bridge from below, lays a gemstone mine, flashback on cabal therapy (sacrificing ichorid and getting 2 more zombies), naming elspeth, knight-errant (which he saw in my hand earlier).

T6
I draw a bitterblossom, attack with my tidehollow sculler which he elects not to block once more, putting him down to 13. I play the bitterblossom.

Ichorid comes back again (removing another imp). He dredges another stinkweed imp (getting another ichorid and cabal therapy into the yard). City of brass taps along with gemstone mine to put him on 12, he plays a golgari thug, flashbacks the cabal therapy again using the ichorid (now he has 5 zombies), I swords to plowshares the golgari thug in response, knowing that he knows what is in my hand and will be likely to name Swords to plowshares.

T7
I go down to 16 from bitterblossom, I swing with tidehollow sculler and he elects not to block once more, going down to 11. I vindicate my stoneforge mystic, removing the 2 bridge from belows in the yard..

He dredges a darkblast, kills my faerie token, reanimates 2 ichorids, swings with everything and thats that.

It doesn't really matter because I have no answer to 5 2/2 zombies.

SB: -4 hymn to tourach, -4 vindicate, -1 Sword of Body and Mind, +3 extirpate, +3 phyrexian crusader, +1 diabolic edict, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 thoughtseize

Game 2 (I was on the play):
I can sum this up in five points:
1) T1 cabal therapy nails 2 extirpate in my hand (he's my friend, he noes)
1) CA from dark confidant
2) 3rd extirpate on bridge from below
3) unlucky with the dredging?
4) batterskull wins games (I managed to get it in play just in time)

Game 3 (I was on the play - maybe he wants to DDD?)
He mulligans to 6 sadly, so no DDD action.
His T1 cabal therapy for extirpate misses, I screw up his mana somehow and get him into mana trouble, forcing him to choose between breakthrough or putrid imp. He went for the former and it didn't really make inroads.
Eventually, I get my extirpates, hit his Ichorid and Golgari Grave Troll, Vindicate my own Stoneforge Mystic to kill 2 Bridge from below in his yard. It wasn't hard from then on.

Thoughts:

Dredge is hard. I got lucky. I don't know what else to say.

Outcome:

Couldn't expect much after going 0-2, I only played on because my other friend playing goblins was still in it, and then after 4 rounds when it was clear none of us were going to top8 i dropped.

It kinda sucked that I prepared for zoo variants, NORUG, and stoneblade but missed horribly...like *really* horribly. Then again I saw NORUG and zoo at the top tables, I think it was downhill after i lost the first round.

Once metagame breakdown and winning decklists have been released I will post them here.

Comments welcome!

[Leto]

Phillipp, I would cut Chrome Mox if you feel comfortable with it. Change the Duresses for either Thoughtseizes or Inquisitions, or a split. I would also do -2 Swamp, +1 Plains +1 Wasteland.

underlined is not right in my Opinion. IoK is atm subpar to Duress, especially if you hit a meta full of NORUG and Stoneblade. IoK picks no Batterskulls, no NO, no Forces, no Jaces, no Elspeths. I played today a 7 Round Tournament (more on that case tommorow) and was happy not to bring IoK but a 2/3 Split on TS/Duress


Also, 3 Fetid Heath is 1-2 too much

[Rizso]

On the heath if you are trying to play both WW and BBB spells you probly need to run a higher amount of the Heaths.

Tbh imo the best 1cc discard spells is still Thoughtseize.

[Einherjer]

Ye I know about the Thoughtseizes, ill just go and buy 2 i guess.. 4 Duress 2 TS ok? Or what do you guys prefer. On this point you are right.

On the Heaths..sorry but you are all wrong. As said I wanna reach BBB and WW. So 3 Heaths is more like the minimum I wanna run...honestly. please try this card out first, before flaming it cause its no oldschool Dual. Its ways better than Scrubland, when drawn (I KNOW ITS NOT FETCHABLE)

[Rizso]

I wouldnt touch duress before even maxing out thoughtseizes and IOK or tidehollow for that matter.

I run 3 Thoughtseizes 1 iok main with 1 thoughtseize and 1 iok in the board.

[bfeingersh]

I currently play 3 Thoughtseize 3 IoK 2 Sculler main, 2 Duress 2 Sculler board.

[Leto]

well, I think IoK is in the current meta weaker than Duress, as it can not grab really important stuff against a number of DtB (NORUG, Hive Mind...). In this MUs the proactive disruption is quite important, because it is easier to accomplish for us, than dealing with their resolved strategies. And IoK simply won't work there (Discarding NO is easier and more economic than dealing with Progenitus for example)

And that TS is simply the best Discard-Spell in general is right, I have no doubt about that point.

About the Heaths, I played a deck, also needin WW (Elspeth) and BBB (Gatekeeper) with and without Heaths, so I know a bit about the card and the deck ;)

And in my Opinion, 3 is to much. Why?
-not fetchable (obvious but important)
-you play 6 Lands in your 21 that don't provide B or W on Turn 1.
-You open yourself up to (unnecessary) Mulligans (Waste + Land is not that uncommon in Startinghands and Waste + Heath sucks hard)
-fails the Wasteland-Test (Scrubs too, but the Manabase was 1 of DGA Upsides all the time), and this matters even more as your Lists lacks Drawmanipulation (blue Decks can brainstorm for Lands,if one gets wasted, green have Loam/Knight)

my advise would be to play 1-2 and test out, if it works. Its not that the card is bad, its simply that you dont want to draw multiples

[Rizso]

well, I think IoK is in the current meta weaker than Duress, as it can not grab really important stuff against a number of DtB (NORUG, Hive Mind...). In this MUs the proactive disruption is quite important, because it is easier to accomplish for us, than dealing with their resolved strategies. And IoK simply won't work there (Discarding NO is easier and more economic than dealing with Progenitus for example)

And that TS is simply the best Discard-Spell in general is right, I have no doubt about that point.

About the Heaths, I played a deck, also needin WW (Elspeth) and BBB (Gatekeeper) with and without Heaths, so I know a bit about the card and the deck ;)

And in my Opinion, 3 is to much. Why?
-not fetchable (obvious but important)
-you play 6 Lands in your 21 that don't provide B or W on Turn 1.
-You open yourself up to (unnecessary) Mulligans (Waste + Land is not that uncommon in Startinghands and Waste + Heath sucks hard)
-fails the Wasteland-Test (Scrubs too, but the Manabase was 1 of DGA Upsides all the time), and this matters even more as your Lists lacks Drawmanipulation (blue Decks can brainstorm for Lands,if one gets wasted, green have Loam/Knight)

my advise would be to play 1-2 and test out, if it works. Its not that the card is bad, its simply that you dont want to draw multiples

He does run higher count of lands as well as Chrome Moxes, he runes 24 mana sources. So he pretty much run the normal 19 lands but added 2 more extra Heaths.

Wasteland proof doesnt matter that much today, not when running just a 2 colored deck with 4-6 basics. Chance of lossing to your own mana base is higher losing to opposite wastelands.


Edit: The new card Mentor of the Meek might be a card that fits our deck.

[Micki]

Hello there!

This is the list I am playing at the moment and some questions I hope to get opinions on.

4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland (I only have 3)
3 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Fetid Heath
1 Tainted Field
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Swamp
2 Plains

4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Mirran Crusader

3 Bitterblossom
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate

4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind

My sideboard is metagame dependent so there is no use in posting it, auto includes are Perish, SoFI, Misstep and GY hate.

Here's my thoughts/questions;

1) I don't like Gatekeeper but everyone is playing it so it has to be good or? Personally I prefer Nighthawk but that card on the other hand is one that everybody hates. Both costs 3 mana to play in most cases (and Gatekeeper bbb) so that can't be the reason. Yes, Gatekeeper is great when my opponent has only one creature in play and that creature is Progenitus and yes Gatekeeper forces my opponent to sacrifice a creature where as Nighthawk doesn't but still... A 2/3 flying deathtouch has to better than a 2/2 without evasion?. Do explain this one so that my stupid finnish head understands.

2) I can't decide what would be the correct split between StoP and Vindicate since I only run 6 atm. Maybe 4+4 would be correct but what should I cut?

3) I switched from 19 lands + 3 Mox to 22 lands and I have been quite happy with that decision, thoughts on that?

4) Has anyone tried to play Weathered Wayfarer to enable tutoring for Wasteland, Karakas, Volrath's Stronghold and others?

[NathanS2k]

Ran a BWr list in a Legacy Star City Games Invitational Qualifier. It was my first real legacy tournament and made quite some minor misplays. Would've made top 8 had I won against Junk at 4-1 as I would've definitely been able to draw the last match, but got mana screwed game 1 and mana flooded game 2. Ended up 4-3. The deck is definitely a lot of fun to play.

I am extremely happy I decided to run red as Lavamancer is so extremely awesome. Also, even though it is very good, I hate running Chrome Moxes, so I was happy to cut them. REB in the board is also great. I ran the following list:

Land (22)
1x Swamp
4x Scrubland
4x Badlands
2x Plateau
4x Marsh Flats
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wasteland

Artifact (4):
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Creatures (14):
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Dark Confidant
2x Mirran Crusader

Instant (6):
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Lightning Bolt

Sorcery (12)
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Vindicate

Enchantment (2)
2x Bitterblossom


Sideboard (15)
2x Relic of Progentius
3x Phyrexian Crusader
1x Darkblast
3x Extirpate
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Perish


I feel the list is good, but not yet optimal. Any tips will be greatly appreciated..

This deck look very much like Team Italia than Deadguy Ale.

[lyracian]

Here's my thoughts/questions;

1) I don't like Gatekeeper but everyone is playing it so it has to be good or? Personally I prefer Nighthawk but that card on the other hand is one that everybody hates. Both costs 3 mana to play in most cases (and Gatekeeper bbb) so that can't be the reason. Yes, Gatekeeper is great when my opponent has only one creature in play and that creature is Progenitus and yes Gatekeeper forces my opponent to sacrifice a creature where as Nighthawk doesn't but still... A 2/3 flying deathtouch has to better than a 2/2 without evasion?. Do explain this one so that my stupid finnish head understands.

Nighthawk is a better body; Gatekeeper is there to be an Edict that gives you a body as well. It kills one creature then blocks a second and hopefully gives better value than Chainer's Edict

[Rizso]

New liliana is very interesting for Deadguy.

Liliana of the Veil 1BB (Mythic)
+1: Each player discards a card
-2: Target player sacrifices a Creature.
-6: Separate all permanents target player controls into two piles. That player sacrifices all permanents in the pile of his or her choice.
3 Loyalty

[lyracian]

New liliana is very interesting for Deadguy.

Liliana of the Veil 1BB (Mythic)
+1: Each player discards a card
I can see her working well in a Pox or Gate deck. Not so sure on the +1 effect here though. Do you really want to be wasting resources to try and build up her loyalty?

[paladin3056]

I think the new Lilianna would be really good, I imagine the late game with a lot of dead discard spells that we don't need or SFM when we have all the equipment already in play. She is very good since she has discard, Diabolic Edict and a strong board control, she would be a strong utility card for DGA IMO.

[lyracian]

She is very good since she has discard, Diabolic Edict and a strong board control, she would be a strong utility card for DGA IMO.I had not thought of it that way. I guess if you are throwing away Thoughseize/Hymn you are making them zero cost discard spells that add loyalty counters.

[Awake]

Hello everyone :)
i'm getting interested by the Deadguy deck, and more in this version that i took some pages before ^^:
1 [EVE] Fetid Heath
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [UNH] Swamp
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [R] Scrubland
4 [TE] Wasteland
2 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [MOR] Bitterblossom
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
4 [AP] Vindicate

but i have a little question about the new liliana; I would love to test her, but what would you put off to enter her?
I would also ask some advice for someone starting with this deck :)
thanks in advance :)

[Rizso]

I would treat her as removal and discard combination. It doesnt take much for her to create an advantech just like any other planeswalkers.

If it was only possible to use sun titans! XD

[paladin3056]

There are many redundant spells that we do not want late game such as an extra Bob if we have one in play (having 2 in play can be fun but thats suicide), extra SFM if we have all the equipment we need, extra Chrome Mox and discard spells which would do us no good in the late game. Lilianna will put those to good use as discard spell for zero, she also acts as creature removal while you can hold onto your STP or Vindicates for future use. With her ultimate you get a quasi Vindicate on a walker which has never been done before (except for Nicol Bolas, but he is unplayable due to his casting cost). I'm planning to playtest her right now, I would just have to proxy her and see how the deck would fare. For those wondering what to remove, I suggest exchange them for the Gatekeeper for Malakir since she has the same CMC, technically, with it except 1BB is easier to achieve rather than the BBB of Gatekeeper, she would then be the primary target of creature attacks since her ultimate really hurts.

[Awake]

There are many redundant spells that we do not want late game such as an extra Bob if we have one in play (having 2 in play can be fun but thats suicide), extra SFM if we have all the equipment we need, extra Chrome Mox and discard spells which would do us no good in the late game. Lilianna will put those to good use as discard spell for zero, she also acts as creature removal while you can hold onto your STP or Vindicates for future use. With her ultimate you get a quasi Vindicate on a walker which has never been done before (except for Nicol Bolas, but he is unplayable due to his casting cost). I'm planning to playtest her right now, I would just have to proxy her and see how the deck would fare. For those wondering what to remove, I suggest exchange them for the Gatekeeper for Malakir since she has the same CMC, technically, with it except 1BB is easier to achieve rather than the BBB of Gatekeeper, she would then be the primary target of creature attacks since her ultimate really hurts.

which means you'll play at least 2 copy of liliana, isn't it "too much" since you only really want to see her mid/late game? just asking since I didn't play the deck yet (I gonna do it tomorrow ^^)

[Awake]

There are many redundant spells that we do not want late game such as an extra Bob if we have one in play (having 2 in play can be fun but thats suicide), extra SFM if we have all the equipment we need, extra Chrome Mox and discard spells which would do us no good in the late game. Lilianna will put those to good use as discard spell for zero, she also acts as creature removal while you can hold onto your STP or Vindicates for future use. With her ultimate you get a quasi Vindicate on a walker which has never been done before (except for Nicol Bolas, but he is unplayable due to his casting cost). I'm planning to playtest her right now, I would just have to proxy her and see how the deck would fare. For those wondering what to remove, I suggest exchange them for the Gatekeeper for Malakir since she has the same CMC, technically, with it except 1BB is easier to achieve rather than the BBB of Gatekeeper, she would then be the primary target of creature attacks since her ultimate really hurts.

which means you'll play at least 2 copy of liliana, isn't it "too much" since you only really want to see her mid/late game? just asking since I didn't play the deck yet (I gonna do it tomorrow ^^)

[Einherjer]

Ye i think 2 is a decent amount. But im not convinced yet if this planeswalker is really playable in Legacy....

[movingtonewao]

Hi could someone comment on my report a page back :(? Would like to learn if I made any play errors. thanks!

[Rizso]

Hi could someone comment on my report a page back :(? Would like to learn if I made any play errors. thanks!

The jitte vs Elspeth is one damn hard choice, but I think I would go for the Jitte as you got a Crusader to get through to the Elspeth.

problem is that it would take as long to kill elspeth with that crusader as it would to poison him out.

[movingtonewao]

The jitte vs Elspeth is one damn hard choice, but I think I would go for the Jitte as you got a Crusader to get through to the Elspeth.

problem is that it would take as long to kill elspeth with that crusader as it would to poison him out.

its a choice between batterskull, jitte and elspeth. I posted the report on mtgsalvation as well and a dude said that jitte is the no-brainer choice because an active jitte kills all my guys. But if the batterskull comes back (which it eventually would), then he's a wall against my crusader. Then again, an active jitte kills me on the spot :( I recall not being able to sleep that evening, all the scenarios were playing in my head as to what would've happened if i picked each choice.

[movingtonewao]

-double post :(-

[Rizso]

My reasoning is that elspeth and jitte will close the game pretty much in the same amount of time. However active Jiite limits our draws so much. Cant get our own Jitte, Bob or Stoneforge active. So only real topdeck would be an other Vindicate. So would kill the jitte.

On lililan, she does answer progenitus and emrakul. She is both a discard and a removal in one spells, so she ups both the discard and removal in the deck while being a planeswalker that might end annihilate half their board or more.

[movingtonewao]

My reasoning is that elspeth and batterskull will close the game pretty much in the same amount of time. However active Jiite limits our draws so much. Cant get our own Jitte, Bob or Stoneforge active. So only real topdeck would be an other Vindicate. So would kill the jitte.


This really helps me understand it a lot better. Thanks for the comment by the way! Nobody here really paid attention :/ Whats your take on the chains of mephistopheles? Is it worth a slot in the SB or is it too cheesy.

As for lilian, I agree she could easily replace 1 thoughtseize or 1 diabolic edict anytime. I'm a bit iffy about the pre-order price though, considering she's quite narrow, its a tad too high.

[movingtonewao]

double post again!!! -something wrong with my pc?-

[Rizso]

Playing legacy and standard so dont really care that much about lilianas cost if she works in the deck. Only annoying part is gonna be geting the foiled to continue pimping out the deck :P

Active jitte finish the games faster against us then batterskull does. You can chump batterskull until you draw and answer for it. Active jitte only jitte or vindicate answer it. The -1/-1 abilty of jitte will cut of bobs so lower chance to get the answers. Against batterskull you still go the chance to draw your own stoneforge and get a batterskull going. In your senario I would say jitte would be the right choice. But every choice isnt always the same. Like if you was able to cut of your opponent from all their creatures, jitte isnt as dangerous as Elspeth or Batterskull.

[movingtonewao]

thanks for the tip! Wow i didn't know jitte was that strong. Vindicate is a really hard-to-use card :(

[paladin3056]

@movingtonewao - Hard to say, I think either way if you don't draw another vindicate to kill the other it is pretty much GG since he has a strong card advantage with any combination of Elspeth, Jitte and Batterskull. But take note that once jitte becomes active it doubles as removal which either Elspeth and batterskull doesn't have thus making the fairy tokens useless for blocking.

On Chains of Mephistopheles, its quite interesting as a way to stop control, the only problem I see is that it is costly and hard to find.

If we are going to fit liliana in the deck it could possibly replace Gatekeeper of Malakir since it is easier to cast, and becomes a must kill for the opponent. The thing about lili is that she has a pseudo vindicate as its ultimate skill, the only problem is how to choose the piles correctly.

[Rizso]

Not gonna replace The gatekeepers they still holds weapons so. But probly gonna do split.

I see people run without Chrome Mox and without Mental Misstep. How are you gonna do on the play against any faster decks? While might not be needing both but imo 1 of the 2 are needed to catch up.

Probly gonna remove The relic of progenitus from my board As I feel 3 Extractions and Mortarpod is what should be considered for the dredge. 5th card really wont make the matchup that much better. Probly want like 3 Liliana in the 75 maybe even 4, testing will tell. She does add removal and discard from just 1 card. And got a gut feeling she is quite painful to play against, kinda like Gideon in standard is.

I feel the Phyrexian Crusader tech does its job against zoo really great, taking the matchup to slightly favorful if not more, specially the 1 dropp zoo there all but 10 cards are either red or white. Jitte + Crusader is pretty hard for 1dropp zoo to beat.

I feel we have quite good matchup against NO-RUG or Natural Order overall. Multiple Edict effects, attacking their hand, Force of Will working in our favor every 2 for 1 is a win for us, Perish and ways to attack their 0-2 basic manabase.

A card I have been thinking of having in my board is a Crucible of Worlds, wastelocking someone is very tempting to be tested out. Specially against any control deck.

Maybe even increase planeswalker even more, 3-4 liliana and 2-3 Elspeth in the 75. Planeswalkers are exellent to grind someone out.

[movingtonewao]

@movingtonewao - Hard to say, I think either way if you don't draw another vindicate to kill the other it is pretty much GG since he has a strong card advantage with any combination of Elspeth, Jitte and Batterskull. But take note that once jitte becomes active it doubles as removal which either Elspeth and batterskull doesn't have thus making the fairy tokens useless for blocking.

On Chains of Mephistopheles, its quite interesting as a way to stop control, the only problem I see is that it is costly and hard to find.

If we are going to fit liliana in the deck it could possibly replace Gatekeeper of Malakir since it is easier to cast, and becomes a must kill for the opponent. The thing about lili is that she has a pseudo vindicate as its ultimate skill, the only problem is how to choose the piles correctly.

On the elspeth, batterskull, jitte issue: I think after much afterthought, jitte is the definite answer. Considering my bitterblossom tokens and crusader on the board, I could chump soldiers/germ all day, hence elspeth and batterskull will take longer to grind me down, whereas jitte is a fast tide-turner.

On Chains: OK lets say i manage to get my hands on some, is it even that great? My friends say its a very narrow card and is dead if i draw it late.

On Liliana: i think the piles should be land in one pile and non-land in the other. Of course this depends on the situation. Then again I doubt we would use the ultimate often, most of the decks these days have some form of creatures, and the decks that don't run creatures are usually fast combo decks where you don't want to be using a liliana (because too slow).

@ Riszo:

On Gatekeepers: BBB is a horrible cc, and against control decks with no creatures you play him as a grizzly bears. 1 or 2 is enough.

On relic of progenitus: If dredge is your problem, use extraction/extirpate. But relic is randomly good against other things, like even a pumped up tarmogoyf, a life from the loam, and so on.

On Phyrexian Crusader: Not just zoo, I think even against a deck like NO RUG, its not half bad to have him around, dodges their removal + carries equipment like a king.

Crucible of Worlds: cute, but with no way to tutor it up you almost always wish this were something else. For a singleton, you probably want something like Elspeth to win you the game immediately.

On liliana: no more than 1-2. You don't really want dead cards in your hand firstly, and secondly she's no jace. Too many planeswalkers clog up your deck too, feels clunky to do that.

[Rizso]

Liliana is a planeswalker that you play use a couple of turns then you replace it with an other. She is no jace or elspeth you ride to victory.

I run my deck without mirran crusaders so the BBB or BBBB isnt much problem for me.

[Rizso]

Hate doing double posts but was a while sense last post.

I have seen a couple successful UW-blade decks on modo that runs Gideon and/or Baneslayer Angel in their board. I have been liking the Chrome Moxes but Im thinking of experimenting with a Dark Ritual version instead once Liliana gets released. Thinking of testing out a planeswalker trio of Liliana, Elspeth and Gideon. Fueling out them faster with Ritual and Fetid Heaths.

Theorized version

3 Dark Rituals
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Elspeth
1 Gideon
3 Bitterblossom
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flat
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
2 Fetid Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 plain
4 Swamps

Average mana curve 1.35.

[Einherjer]

I was at our little 8men Tournament today with this list
2 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
3 Fetid Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
5 Swamps
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jötun Grunt
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Bitterblossom
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Perish
2 Thorn of Amethyst


And yeah, lets continue to the report.

I:8-Wish-Junk BGW
1) On this game the only error happens I can think of. I was at 3 Mana and played a Top, then recognizing that I wasnt able to cast a Hymn due one white and one black mana. So yeah, that actually lost me this game.
2) This was pretty much mirror. He TS, me Duress, He Bob, me Bob, he Bob, me Bob and so on and so on. An topdecked Jitte wins the game.
3) He plays 2 Bobs while I have a Bitterblossom. He actually doesnt find some lifegenerating source and so on dies to his Bob revealing Mental Misstep
1-0

II:Merfolk
1) I just tríed to push a Batterskull trough, which I was able to.
2) He didnt let my Stoneforge resolve, but after a few turns I topdeck a Jitte and win.
2-0

III:Merfolk
1) Hes a bit manascrewd and so its pretty easy to win.
2) Even though he manages to play a pithing Needle on Stoneforge I beat him down with Nighthawks and Bitterblossoms.

Yeah I placed first out of this 8 people. I liked the deck and every single choice in it.
But feel free to comment.

[Einherjer]

no comments guys?

[Rizso]

Only 2 Scrublands? Is the list a budget version?

What made you go back to Vampire Nighthawks and Jötun Grunt?

[Einherjer]

I couldnt afford more than 2 Scrubs earlier, so I tried to make it as good as possible. And believe it or not, it runs as smooth as a 4 Scrubland list. Even though I could afford 2 more now.

I was torn between Nighthawks and Gatekeepers... And I first thought Gatekeepers made the cut but then spontaniously decided to take Nighthawks. And I really liked it all the time. I couldnt remember a single matchup where I wished they were Gatekeepers. Didnt face NoRug yet.

Jotun Grunts actually got alot of positive points:
1) Out of bolt-range
2) Mainboard GY-hate
3) Stopping Zoo and early Merfolk on their own
4) Re-using your Equipments and Lands

You see, they are pretty neat arent they? I would try them out.

Greetings

[bfeingersh]

I think Fetid Heaths are a fine Scrubland replacement. You will occasionally get hands with like, 2 Heaths and a Wasteland as your only mana, but most of the time it's fine.

Here are some things I would change:

1) Go down to 3 equipment main. I currently run Jitte/Batterskull/SOBM main with a second Batterskull in the board.

2) Change Duress to IoK main, and Therapy to Duress in the board. If it's a budget list, IoK makes a fine Thoughtseize substitute. There are only a few cards at 4+ you tend to worry about, namely NO, Jace, Tendrils/IGG/AdN.

3) I'm a huge fan of Tidehollow Scullers (I run 2 main, 2 board) but maybe that's just me.

4) The sideboard seems a little loose. Your main looks pre-boarded against Zoo, which is a bad matchup as I'm sure everyone would agree, but your side looks a little unorganized. Therapy comes in against combo? I'd rather have the reliability of Duress out of the board. It sucks Therapying for Infernal Tutor and getting owned by them having the AdN/IGG already in their hand. Thorn is an okay catch-most against combo, but I'd rather have Canonist as it hits Elves and is better against Enchantress (I don't know if that's worth having on your radar, but my LGS has 2 people who play those decks). Often Enchantress makes enough mana to play around Thorn if they have a fast start.

What do you bring Pithing Needle in against? How much Dredge/Reanimator do you face that you feel it's worth devoting 6 slots to grave hate?


My board is currently:

3 Perish
2 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Duress (3 TS, 3 IoK, 4 Hymn main)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tidehollow Sculler (2 main)
1 Bitterblossom (2 main)
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Batterskull (1 main)

The metagame at my weekly events is a lot of green decks (NO RUG, Aggro Bant, BGW Junk, Intuition Elves) and a few combo decks (Elves, ANT x3, Enchantress, Hive Mind), and no graveyard decks (occasionally one guy brings Dredge, but he usually plays Fish). At a larger tournament I'd probably cut the Batterskull, Bitterblossom and Perish for assorted Crypt-style hate, but not Leyline.

[Einherjer]

No my deck isnt budget. I do the avaiable money to buy Thoughtseizes and I do have IoK but I really prefer Duress over all of them.
And yes, my sideboard is messy :P

[Rizso]

Currently running 20 lands instead of the 19.

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark confidant
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Bitterblossom, currently testing as 4 of but might be a 3
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquision of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Dark Ritual / Chrome Mox

4 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
2 Fetid Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamps
1 Plains , really hate this card in the deck but crucible is just about in every wasteland deck in my meta, so have to adapt

Board:
2 Perish NO-RUG / Maverick
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir Against decks where discards are less useful and removal is better.
3 Phyrexian Crusader Mainly Zoo-matchup but also works in other matchups. Crusader can win this matchup himself.
3 Surgical Extraction Combodecks, dredge. Also see them quite useful against the control matchups.
2 Phyrexian Arena Serves as extra confidants against control decks like stoneblade, bug still and others.
1 Mortarpod Dredge matchup, NO-RUG and other Decks with lots of 1 toughtness creatures.
1 Umezawa's Jitte Against Zoo and other red decks with Ancient Grudge.
1 Manriki-Gusari Against stoneforge Decks.

I used to run Tidehollow Sculler but Ancient Grudge has started to pop up in alot of boards and Grudge takes them out as a bonus to attack the equipments.

Dont like Jöton at all, IMO he is bad at gy hate as he is to slow at it. Same with Nighthawk so much investment for a 2/3 creature.

[paladin3056]

More goodies for BW:

Nevermore - 1WW
Enchantment (Rare)
As Nevermore enters the battlefield, name a nonland card.
The named card can't be cast.
"By the law of Avacyn, the following thoughts, words, and deeds are henceforth disallowed."

Silence of Stone - 1W
Enchantment (R)
Artifact abilities cannot be activated.

I like the new Null Rod, on the plus side you can pitch it for Chrome Mox for those running it unlike Null Rod which cannot be pitched, it is SB card at least and could stop opposing swords as well.

As for Nevermore, an even better Runed Halo and a monocolored enchanment version of Meddling Mage is good, can be pitched for Chrome Mox as well. ISD is looking better for us as well.

[Rizso]

I find nevermore to explensive and the WW cost sucks... Only card from ISD so far Im intersted in is Liliana.

Not been running any nullrod for long time doubt im gonna do it now neither. If affinty ever gets any bigger I rather run serenity and have board against Enchantress as well.

[Surak]

Riszo, how do you like the rituals?
been pondering for a long time for adding them to the deck

Cheerz!

[Rizso]

They have been fine so far, but real test is gonna be when geting hold of Liliana. if they are mental missteping it, its 1 less misstep to care about later. Deck might change even more with liliana, puting own missteps into the deck again. What the ritual and mox does to the deck is making it have more unfair draws and more dead draws in the late game. With Chrome mox play I have won many games where i have been able to cast spells onet or 2 turn sooner. What I like about ritual is against zoo its possible for a turn 1 Phyrexian Crusader on the draw.

[Surak]

i'm gonna post my list asap.
I'm playing 3-4 Mirran crusaders as my finisher.
I'm worrying that the synergy with the rituals of far off like this.
Was also pondering on adding 2-3 celestial dawns.
I run 2 x Elspeth, 3-4 Mirran as with double W casting cost, and hymn with double black. any thoughts?
Not playing scrubland yet, cause i can't get my hands on them (playing 4x Tainted Field at their spot atm.)

edit: with ritual on the play i guess you go for thoughtseize(or IoK) + hymn?

I see nobody's playin gerrard's verdict anymore, reason?

[Oiolosse]

Hymn>Verdict imo and in most people's opinions I would say.

Also, I you have the available money Thoughtseize is heaps better than IoK, if only for Jace.

I haven't played my list since batterskull but I run Basilisk Collar and it is awesome. The deathtouch pairs very well with Bitterblossom and my list also runs Elspeth with Confidant so the lifegain seems necessary at times.

I was toying around with Stillmoon Cavalier but was always on the fence. His evasion is great with equipment but his innate p/t sucks. What are y'alls thoughts?

[bfeingersh]

@Surak: If you can't get Scrublands, Fetid Heath is probably the next best option with a curve like that. Don't play Ritual! Although filtering Ritual mana through Fetid Heath can be okay. Turn 2 Elspeth is cool, but don't get Dazed.

@Oiolosse: I've heard good things about Basilisk Collar as well, but I don't know what I would cut for it in my board.

@Paladin3056: Would you play Null Rod in this deck (with Mox, SDT, and equipment)? I wouldn't, and I wouldn't play Silence of Stone either. Nevermore is interesting as a different board plan against combo. If they think you're boarding in Duress and other various hand disruption, they might not have Chain of Vapor. If you play Sculler they'll probably bring bounce in though. I've moved Runed Halo in and out of my board and I don't know why I'd run this 1WW card over the WW one. I guess Nevermore has protection from Empty the Warrens and Show and Tell.

[Rizso]

Changed arround with the deck again....

I decided I didnt really like the bitterblossoms and rather spend life on drawing cards with the arena, misstep back in to the deck but the board. Cuted a Vindicate for a dismember. Cuted the 5th fetch for a Swamp, running moxes again.

So deck is now with latest updates:

4 Dark Confidance
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 phyrexian Obliterator
3 Gatekeeper of malakir
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and mind
2 Phyrexian Arena

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
3 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 hymn to Tourach

3 Chrome mox
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrublands
2 Fetid heaths
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Plains, god, I still hate this card! :P
4 Swamps
4 Wastelands

Board
2 Perish
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Mortarpod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Mental Misstep

I really felt I wanted more cheap removal, Changing a Vindicate for a Dismember really felt good cos it avoids both Spellsnare, Mental Misstep and Daze. Most of the time Vindicate does kill creatures anyway and dismember is so easy to cast with little mana or with enought mana anyway. Such a good spell. If it proves to be worth it even more might even reduce some more vindicates for dismembers.

[bfeingersh]

I've been running Go for the Throat as my generic creature removal (4 Swords, 2 Throat, 4 Vindicate) but I could see putting Dismember in that spot. I was worried about taking extra damage but this is a black deck after all, derp.

[paladin3056]

Ah forgot about the disynergy between Chrome Mox and Silent Stone oh well moving on. I also see Liliana having a lot of potential since she is a strong utility card being discard, creature removal and pseudo vindicate in one.

On our matchups against Reanimator, is it that we have an auto loose to it game 1? I fought against a friend of mine running reanimator, and a reanimated Jin-Gitaxias or Elesh Norn hurts a lot, especially Elesh Norn since most of the creatures we run have a toughness of at most 2 instantly killing all of our creatures, Jin on the other hand would just be a matter of top decking removal and praying that your opponent doesn't have counter back up (which is not likely with him drawing 8 cards a turn). My friends' build has tons of counters so I am not sure if it applies to other reanimator builds as well, but it is very hard fought battle with him countering almost anything I throw at him then he would reanimate Jin refill his hand for more counters then the battle continues on. Then post board should an opening hand of any of our GY hate be good enough to battle this? Would mulling aggressively for an opening hand of Leyline of the Void be a good play?

[Surak]

most likely what i'm going to propose is already propsed, but going to post it anyway.
Did mass removal (wrath / DoJ) already has been considered as a SB card? when playing creature decks, I often feel like it would come in handy, but with bob on the field 4 other 4CMC card might do alot dmg :/?
thoughts?

[Rizso]

I have had positive matchup against Reanimate so far :P

Losing only to Reanmaite t2 Gingitaxis on the play while being mana screwed. To beat them you need to have removal for that Gingitaxis in game 1. Game 2 and 3 Briniing in the Missteps, extractions. Hope you get a hand with combination of discard spells, missteps and extractions and lands then draw into creatures / removal. Gitaxis is the most dangerous creature for us. Gatekeeper does take good care of the other creatures that have shroud.

Only mass removal I play is Perish. Think i have seen some play a damnation or 2 in their board but I dont really like. What decks do you want that against? and 4 mana. A mass Removal i have been thinking of is the Black Sun Zenith only 2 damage from revaling from bob. Shuffles it self into the deck. Costs only 3 mana to kill empty the warren tokens. But really atm the decks where it goes perish does that job atm.

[paladin3056]

I have considered mass removal as part of my SB, WoG might be a little bit more expensive for this deck since they can reanimate as early as turn 2 or 3, so it might be too late when I cast this so I widened my card choices to Retribution of the Meek (I read something about this here), can kill Elesh Norn and Jin since they have 4 or more Power and is only 3 CMC. BSZ can be considered but it would cost at least 6 to kill a Jin.

Yeah, Jin is very devastating if reanimated early, I had that happened to me a couple of times during playtest and it is very hard to deal with. I had to pray when I top decked removal that he doesn't have counter backup. Elesh Norn can be dealt with but a combination of both is very deadly.

Another card I have considered is Phyrexian Metamorph, kills legends like Jin and I use it to copy my own or opposing Batterskulls, if I need it to copy something else I use the bounce ability of Batterskull to reuse Metamorph to get rid of annoying legends like Jitte's. It's very versatile since you do not need to use MD slot for extra Jitte to get rid of oppossing Jittes, and can copy the strongest creature an opponent controls such as KotR, goyfs etc. A singleton would do since you do not want him in your hand if you don't need anything to copy. The only downside I see is that he can't be imprinted on a Chrome Mox.

[bfeingersh]

I've never lost a match to Reanimator, and rarely a game. Just make sure their Jin doesn't stick around a turn. Pre-board I have 6 instant speed spot removal spells in addition to all the hand disruption. I also have the miser's Karakas. They have no answer to that besides Angel of Despair, which also eats Swords/Gatekeeper/GFTT/Vindicate.

With 8-10 hand disruption spells, 6 instant speed spot removal, and possibly mental misstep for entomb/reanimate/careful study/cantrips I don't think you should have any real issues with that matchup.

[paladin3056]

Ok noted, more instant removal, I only run 4 at the moment which is STP, might up that count to 6 or 7 with either GftT and Dismember. Karakas is another option I was thinking of since the version I was play testing with doesn't run wastelands, but I am having a hard time finding one so instant removal will have to do at the moment.

I was considering this from ISD:

Victim of Night BB
Instant (C)
Destroy target non-Vampire, non-Werewolf, non-Zombie creature.

It can hit pesky artifact creatures like Ravager, opposing Revokers, Master of Etherium, etc. The only con I see here is the cost BB, any thoughts?

[lyracian]

It can hit pesky artifact creatures like Ravager, opposing Revokers, Master of Etherium, etc. The only con I see here is the cost BB, any thoughts?
It is probably the best Terror variant printed so far in terms of killing power. Double black though really focus's the deck on black with a splash of white, just like triple and quadruple black does for the creatures, so you probably can not use spells that are double white as well.

[Rizso]

Would much rather play dismember or go for the throat then that spell.

[LegacyDan]

Ok noted, more instant removal, I only run 4 at the moment which is STP, might up that count to 6 or 7 with either GftT and Dismember. Karakas is another option I was thinking of since the version I was play testing with doesn't run wastelands, but I am having a hard time finding one so instant removal will have to do at the moment.

I was considering this from ISD:

Victim of Night BB
Instant (C)
Destroy target non-Vampire, non-Werewolf, non-Zombie creature.

It can hit pesky artifact creatures like Ravager, opposing Revokers, Master of Etherium, etc. The only con I see here is the cost BB, any thoughts?

If anything, Liliana of the Veil is the best option from Innistrad so far. And even then, I couldn't honestly suggest the card for the maindeck, sideboard maybe would be the best choice for her.

[fallenphoenix]

Played at the local GPT for Amsterdam today with the following list:

4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Gerrard's Verdict
3 Mental Misstep

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Scrubland
3 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Chrome Mox

SB:
3 Perish
3 Extirpate
2 Path to Exile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Duress
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Enlightened Tutor

I went 4:2 and was pretty content overall. Verdict and Batterskull were the weakest cards imho (Verdict>Hymn just b/c of mana-issues).
The two matches I lost each went to game 3 where I mulled into oblivion each game.

[bfeingersh]

Split the finals of the Battleground Duel for Duals today. ~30 people, top 8 breakdown was Deadguy x2, team America, aggro loam w/ natural order, URg landstill, junk depths, reanimator, merfolk. Top 4 Deadguy x2, aggro loam, reanimator. The other Deadguy player in the top 4 had a very different build with chrome mox, maindeck revokers, mirran crusader, SoFI, duress and cabal therapy as main disruption (he said he didn't have thoughtseizes).

List and short report to come after I get wasted tonight.

[bfeingersh]

Here's what I played yesterday:

Creatures (12):
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tidehollow Sculler

Instants (6):
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Dismember

Sorceries (14):
4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

Planeswalker (1):
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Enchantment (2):
2 Bitterblossom

Artifact (5):
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (20):
1 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Scrubland
1 Fetid Heath
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas

Sideboard (15):
1 Batterskull
3 Perish
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Duress
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Bitterblossom
2 Phyrexian Crusader


Round 1: URg Landstill with Stifle/Dreadnaught (made top 8)

Every bad excuse applies to these games. I took a mulligan each game, got stuck on 2 lands after getting hit by multiple wastelands, and he had multiple Grim Lavamancers. They weren't very close.

0-1 (0-2)

Round 2: Cephalid Breakfast

I was sitting next to this guy as he played my friend in round 1. I had a little idea of what I was facing but it looked like the do literally everything combo deck. He had played Nomads, Cephalid Illusionist, Therapy, and Narcomoebas, but also Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull, and Triskelion. I wasn't really sure what to expect.

Game 1 I rip his hand up and win with a Jitte on 5 counters preventing him from playing much of anything. I board thinking that he had the usual Kiki-Jiki/Sky Hussar combo as well as Ooze/Devourer/Triskelion as a backup plan, and bring in Ghostly Prison. Turns out he wasn't on that plan.

Game 2 my turn 2 hymn hits a Mimeoplasm. I guess that explains things. He plays Stoneforge Mystic and gets Shuko and plays it. That also explains some things! Game 2 ended uneventfully, but he was definitely playing an interesting brew. He said he drew a bunch of dead cards, but that's why I don't like Cephalid Breakfast. They have like 12 cards you never want in your hand.

1-1 (2-2)

Round 3: Team America

Don't really remember this round well, but it was pretty typical of how this matchup goes. Lots of Hymning, then hopefully drawing well afterwards.

2-1 (4-2)

Round 4: Merfolk (made top 8)

It's my friend Ethan, and he asks if I want to ID. I'd be fine playing it out since Merfolk is a cakewalk, but I was also fine gambling with drawing there and just playing the last round. If we played it out, the loser would be out of contention while the winner might get paired down against an x-1-1 and have to play anyway. He ended up winning his round 5 as well before losing to Aggro Loam in the quarters.

2-1-1 (4-2)

Round 5: Faerieninjastill!

His deck was pretty cool, but just being cool doesn't win you matches. He never had a clock and I was fine playing under Standstill for a while, then leisurely broke it, got a Jitte, cleared his board, and killed him. I learned some stuff about how Ninjutsu worked though.

3-1-1 (6-2)

Top 8: Junk Depths

I thought he was playing BUG Landstill. I saw him picking his cards up after one of his swiss matches and I saw Innocent Blood, P. Deed, Life from the Loam, and Bayous. Whoops! Game 1 he's on the play with the Hexmage beatdown plan while aggressively Wastelanding me out.

Game 2, he took a mulligan and didn't look too happy about his keep. He played a couple guys, I had a Perish and beat down with some Bobs.

Game 3, he opens with T1 Mox, Living Wish for Wasteland, T2 Living Wish for Goyf and kill my land. I Dismember the Goyf and play a Bob. He doesn't have removal for Bob and I accumulate lands as he keeps putting blockers in my way. I find enough removal to eventually kill him. He mentions that he thought he was too all-in on comboing during the swiss and thought he should just try to play the creature game against me, since his creatures are generally bigger.

4-1-1 (8-3)

Top 4: Aggro Loam with Natural Order (Micah Greenbaum, who won an SCG open with a different list from the same archetype)

I don't know how I won this. I think this matchup is quite horrible, and only won due to some ridiculous luck. Game 1 I'm on the play with T2 Bob, T3 Bob, T4 Elspeth. He Dreams for 1 but still needs to kill my Elspeth, which he doesn't do. I'm threatening an Elspeth emblem, but I can't realistically make one without losing her to Punishing Fire, which slows me down for a while but I find a Bitterblossom and ride them out. I feel like I had what was the perfect opening in this matchup, and I was on the play, and I still BARELY won.

Game 2 he took a double mulligan and leads with Forgotten Cave tapped. Not good. I Inquisition him and see Cave, Loam, Loam, Bob. I obviously take the Bob. He cycles his Cave and plays a Verdant Catacombs. Next turn he starts Loaming and drawing some cards, but I already have a Stoneforge online and his few creatures are too little too late. I play a top. He has 6 cards in hand, and casts Dreams for 4 to kill my Stoneforge, Germ and all my lands (notably, 3 of my 4 basics). I draw a land and play a Bitterblossom before he can do anything else. He said any other combination of 4 cards to discard would have been fine, but dumping all of the lands he had in hand while simultaneously clearing his board was too much, and left the Terravore that would have ended the game stranded in his hand.

5-1-1 (10-3)

Top 2: Split with Reanimator, yay. I know I recently said Reanimator is an easy matchup, but my friend who drove had to get home and it was an hour drive or so, so we left. Got me some Mare Sotterraneos, swag.

[paladin3056]

Would much rather play dismember or go for the throat then that spell.

Have to agree with that, Dismember is much more versatile hands down. With its cost going from :1:, :1B: or :1BB: and can kill a large majority of creatures, except a developed Goyf and an overdeveloped KotR, its pretty much the 2nd removal of choice together with Go for the Throat.


If anything, Liliana of the Veil is the best option from Innistrad so far. And even then, I couldn't honestly suggest the card for the maindeck, sideboard maybe would be the best choice for her.

I am currently testing her in my deck and I'm still getting a hand on how to use her properly. The best moment to play her is when my opponent has a few cards in hand and no creatures in play, she has pretty much locked the game by then. If I draw her in the early game I will just imprint it on my Chrome Mox since I don't want her too early, too many key spells in hand that I don't want to discard.

@bfeingersh - great work, I was wondering how was 20 lands working for you, don't you get mana screwed? I'm running 20 lands and 2 Chrome Mox and even then I get mana screwed, I was wondering if its because of bad luck. Is 2 Bitterblossom enough in the deck or would you add 1 more?

[bfeingersh]

@paladin: Not particularly, but I could definitely see adding another basic or two. The deck can function decently on 2 lands, as long as you don't go all in on a Stoneforge, then get Swordsed and Wastelanded off white the next turn. The only times I really getting screwed are when I mull into a 6 card hand like Marsh Flats, Wasteland, Stoneforge, Thoughtseize, Vindicate, Tidehollow Sculler on the play game 1. Fetching Swamp on T1 is the safest play, but getting a Scrubland lets you do good stuff on T2... as long as they don't have a Wasteland. Which they always do, obviously.

[annoiato]

Today I took part to a 66th people tournament.

MY LIST
creatures
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic
istant
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
sorcery
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
enchantment
3 Bitterblossom
artifact
1 Batterskull
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
lands
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Scrubland
5 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

sideboard
4 Extirpate
3 Perish
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Pithing Needle
3 Duress

G1: Kinda Standstil, 2-1
G2: Canadian Threshold, 2-1
G3: Zoo, 0-2
G4: Junk, 1-2
G5: Cefalid Breakfast, 2-0
G6: Merfolk UB, 2-1
G7: Team America, 1-2

Final: 4-3

Thoughts:
1) Aven Mindcensor: I choose this card as a maindeck answer to Natural Order, Stoneforge and Intuition. I didn't find Natural Order and Intuition decks. During G1 this card has been weak and not usefull, alle the time I played it, it has been removed or didn't make any difference. I always side it out.
2) Chrome Mox: Any time I started the game playing this card, I won the game. This card give to the deck what it needs to become more competitive: speed!
3) Mental Misstep: in my meta, quite all the decks plays misstep! I choose to play it maindeck to have an answer to other Misstep and to protect my creatures from removal. Life loss is intensive. Maybe Mother of the Runes is better?
4) Gatekeeper of Malakir and Bitterblossom are so good. I'm thinking about playing one more copy each.
5) Ghostly Prison: I choose this card as sideboard answer to aggro deck but I found it weak. I think I should have a maindeck answer to aggro decks.

[Rizso]

With Mental Misstep gone from the meta game we have to get ready for a surge of combo, counterbalance and large reduction of control decks.

Time to dust of the Engineered Explosives to battle Counterbalance.

[paladin3056]

Just read the ban list on Mental Misstep for Legacy, and it seems that certain archetypes would return. Never saw that coming, then again it is widely used by a wide range of decks, even those running without blue. Now we won't be afraid of casting an STP without having it Misstepped, now they have to use the old ways of FoW, Daze and Spell Pierce. I think the Meta would revert back to the way it was before MM, just with a few changes with the addition of ISD.

@bfeingersh - yeah this deck can survive with just 2 lands, 3 is better to cast our Vindicates and Swords or even Liliana of the Veil. There are some times that I get a hand full of non basics and no fetches like a scrubland and a waste or Scrubland and a Fetid Heath, should I mulligan for a more stable land base or keep and pray for no wastes?

@annoiato - how were your match ups against Zoo, Junk and Team america? Aven Mindcensor is an interesting card, but I was wondering what to put out since the deck is really tight already.

[Tim the Enchanter]

With the inevitable return of Counterbalance, Goblins, and Spiral Tide I think I'm going to revert to a list similar to the one I made T8 in Charlotte with. Vials and more white centric with some number of Phyrexian Revoker in the main. That guy is the nuts and won me so many games. Dropping him with Vial in response to Candelabra always makes me smile.

Bring back Enlightened Tutor, at least in the board, and life is good, plus you can play one O-Ring as searchable removal. Mother of Runes might not be bad to have a gain.

Firespout and EE will probably see more play again and that's pretty bad news.

Truth be told I don't even know if I'll continue playing Magic at all. I was burnt out for a while and didn't really want to go to the last couple big events I did, but I needed the Open points. Then SCG changed their point structure and I won't even get free tournament entry anymore. I may just sell my cards and buy a motorcycle.

[Rizso]

A accelerator is gonna be needed thats for sure. Glad i didnt sell my 4 foilad AEther Vials in case thats the road the deck should be going. Thought I do like the discard heavy mox version.

[bfeingersh]

I think I'm moving back to Aether Vials and Serra Avengers as well.

[Einherjer]

No, please dont move to the dark side of Deadguy. Dont leave the strong side.

I tell you, Aether Vial and Avengers SUCK BALLS. Honestly, what do you want a 3/3 for? Chumpblocking a raging Knight of the Reliquary? Or what?`

Nah, if you really wanna play acceleration, please do use Chrome Moxe.

Greetings

[Richard Cheese]

With the inevitable return of Counterbalance, Goblins, and Spiral Tide I think I'm going to revert to a list similar to the one I made T8 in Charlotte with. Vials and more white centric with some number of Phyrexian Revoker in the main. That guy is the nuts and won me so many games. Dropping him with Vial in response to Candelabra always makes me smile.

Bring back Enlightened Tutor, at least in the board, and life is good, plus you can play one O-Ring as searchable removal. Mother of Runes might not be bad to have a gain.

Firespout and EE will probably see more play again and that's pretty bad news.

Truth be told I don't even know if I'll continue playing Magic at all. I was burnt out for a while and didn't really want to go to the last couple big events I did, but I needed the Open points. Then SCG changed their point structure and I won't even get free tournament entry anymore. I may just sell my cards and buy a motorcycle.

I proxied up a list based on that one, and thought it was really solid. Personally I think less discard effects is the way to go since these colors don't really offer much in terms of draw fixing and hand sculpting.

[Einherjer]

Less discard? NO WAY! I was thinking of playing like 4 Hymn 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress. So adding 2more discard. Dont play less. You dont wanna lose to Combo, trust me.

[annoiato]

@annoiato - how were your match ups against Zoo, Junk and Team america? Aven Mindcensor is an interesting card, but I was wondering what to put out since the deck is really tight already.

Against Zoo (with Steppe Lynx) I had no chances to win. It is too fast and my Ghostly Prison were too slow (maybe also a wrong sideboard choice's).
Against Junk and Team America I played a good fight but lost due bad topdeck!
Aven Mindcestor is not strong enough to take place maindeck. Too situational.

Post BAN I'm thinking about play again with Mother of the Runes (to protect creatures from removal) and Vial (to avoid rising Couterbalance and Snare decks) and back with SOFI.

[Richard Cheese]

Less discard? NO WAY! I was thinking of playing like 4 Hymn 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress. So adding 2more discard. Dont play less. You dont wanna lose to Combo, trust me.

I'd rather lose to aggro? Be realistic, discard alone has never been good enough to stop a good storm player. They'll just play out their mana sources and use every opportunity to dig for a tutor then chain tutors in to AdN or IGG to win.

People just need to get over their hard-ons for discard because it just isn't the all-inclusive answer it gets made out to be. It's usefulness varies wildly based on the game state, and for every game that you just wreck your opponent's hand, you'll have another game where you hit something redundant, or they just top-deck another threat/answer.

Go ahead and devote 10 slots to discard if you want, but you better be packing some Tops so you can attempt to find something that's actually relevant against Zoo after turn 3, or to deal with that Progenitus that came off a Natural Order hidden by a Brainstorm.

[Rizso]

Its not like Ethersword Canonist does much against a potent storm player either. Some strange card is probly more usefull like Sadistic Sacrament. Or just ignore the storm matchup all together and accept to lose to it without spending your whole board plan against it. Mean Epic storm does run 4 silence effects and 4 duresses thats alot of protection. Our clock is slow and they can set their gameplan up and blow us out with AD naus, Past or iggy.

And rather spend the board to strenghten the deck against zoo, merfolk, , no rug and countertop / blade decks. Even if we spend all 15 cards in the board against storm i dont think its gonna be reaching 50%.

Plan with misstep gone is no more Go for the throat and lowered the amount of Vindicates.
Removal suite is now:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Gatekeeper of malakir
2 Ghastly Demise
1 Dismember
2 Vindicate

Expecting alot more Merfolk, Zoo and goblins now and elves for that matter.

[Richard Cheese]

Where I've had the most success, and I think most storm players would agree (please correct me if I'm wrong), is with multiple, varied hate. Canonist alone is not very good. Canonist + Null Rod + Leyline of Sanctity? That will buy you a lot of time.

Discard alone won't make it, but discard + counters or other hate has a much better chance.

To me, it's just a meta choice. If your meta is full of Hive Mind and Spiral Tide, rock lots of discard. If it's TES/AnT, pack more diverse hate, and hope to get luckier than they do. Still, the whole point of combo is that sometimes it just craps out a win and there's nothing you can do about it. I'd rather strengthen the 50/50 matchups, and try to use combo-hate that has usefulness in other matchups as well.

[Tim the Enchanter]

No, please dont move to the dark side of Deadguy. Dont leave the strong side.

I tell you, Aether Vial and Avengers SUCK BALLS. Honestly, what do you want a 3/3 for? Chumpblocking a raging Knight of the Reliquary? Or what?`

Nah, if you really wanna play acceleration, please do use Chrome Moxe.

Greetings


Less discard? NO WAY! I was thinking of playing like 4 Hymn 3 Thoughtseize and 3 Duress. So adding 2more discard. Dont play less. You dont wanna lose to Combo, trust me.

You annoy the shit out of me and I've never taken anything you say slightly seriously.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I have been a major factor in this deck's rise in popularity and success, and call myself an authority on this deck. I've made money at every SCG Open I've played this in. A T8 in Charlotte, with the whiter build, a T16 in Baltimore, and a T32 in Richmond. I also missed the money at the Indy Invitational by 1 match and lost in the T8 of an IQ because I drew 11 lands against one of the decks worst match ups. What the fuck have you done?

Have you ever seen someone flash V Clique in response to Show and Tell to win the game? You can do that, but better, with Vial and Sculler. How bout stopping Spiral Tide by Vialing Revoker in response to Candelabra or a Canonist after a High Tide?

I'd like to fit some Thoughtseize in but it's not mandatory.

I think your right about Avenger. What would I possibly want a 3/3 flyer with vigilance for in a format where most dudes are smaller and don't have flying. I mean she can't even stand toe to toe with green creatures while carrying a sword or with a Mom out, and getting 4 Jitte counters a round just seems terrible.

I'm not worried about combo. I am worried about recurring EE, Pernicious Deed, and Firespout which will all see more play.

Revoker is going to be stone cold nuts again. I promise.

[bfeingersh]

@Dickcheese: I think Canonist + Heavy discard is varied enough. Tidehollow Sculler is great in the combo matchups. Play that shit like Alara block constructed.

[Einherjer]

You annoy the shit out of me and I've never taken anything you say slightly seriously.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I have been a major factor in this deck's rise in popularity and success, and call myself an authority on this deck. I've made money at every SCG Open I've played this in. A T8 in Charlotte, with the whiter build, a T16 in Baltimore, and a T32 in Richmond. I also missed the money at the Indy Invitational by 1 match and lost in the T8 of an IQ because I drew 11 lands against one of the decks worst match ups. What the fuck have you done?

Have you ever seen someone flash V Clique in response to Show and Tell to win the game? You can do that, but better, with Vial and Sculler. How bout stopping Spiral Tide by Vialing Revoker in response to Candelabra or a Canonist after a High Tide?

I'd like to fit some Thoughtseize in but it's not mandatory.

I think your right about Avenger. What would I possibly want a 3/3 flyer with vigilance for in a format where most dudes are smaller and don't have flying. I mean she can't even stand toe to toe with green creatures while carrying a sword or with a Mom out, and getting 4 Jitte counters a round just seems terrible.

I'm not worried about combo. I am worried about recurring EE, Pernicious Deed, and Firespout which will all see more play.

Revoker is going to be stone cold nuts again. I promise.

Could Mr. Arrogant show us the way to go after Mental Misstep ban then?

[CorpT]

Could Mr. Arrogant show us the way to go after Mental Misstep ban then?

He did. You ignored him.

[Einherjer]

He did. You ignored him.
By doing what? I wanna see an decklist not like 2 cards.

[bfeingersh]

Theory and discussion > Blind decklists

I'll trust Tim's opinion over just about anyone else's in this thread.

[Tim the Enchanter]

By doing what? I wanna see an decklist not like 2 cards.

Look at the T8 from SCG Charlotte. They have it listed as Tim Frank instead of Mr. Arrogant if you're having trouble finding the right one.

There are some changes I would make but I haven't thought about it too much because I haven't really been playing Magic recently. In fact, I played very little Magic at all between those big events and no Legacy at all.

[Richard Cheese]

By doing what? I wanna see an decklist not like 2 cards.

Philipp let it go. Tim is the only person I know that consistently posts results at major tournaments with this archetype. Either put up some numbers to back up your ideas or just be willing to let go of some of these pre-conceived notions of what's good and what isn't.

Anyway...

Tim where do you stand on Mom? I've never been that impressed with her, both on my side and the opponent's, but some people just swear by her.

[bfeingersh]

I like her in Vial builds, with or without Misstep legal. She just does a bunch of stuff. Blanking Batterskull is a big one, as well as getting Sworded guys in.

[Tim the Enchanter]

When you play a bunch of creatures, versus BB, Mom is pretty good. She pretty much beats Merfolk on her own, and saving your guys from removal is key. On top of that she lets you push dudes through which is also pretty good. I had never thought of blanking Batterskull but it's true and a great reason to have her around. I'm not sure how dominant SFM will be post MM though.

[Einherjer]

Sorry for what I said but I was a lil pissed - not concerning this forum though.
Would you mind posting your list. I might prox it just to see how I like it - no worries it actually is good.
Greetings

[bfeingersh]

I think she'll be less prevalent but definitely still around. Before MM was printed, people weren't really on to her for legacy, she was just finally becoming a true powerhouse in standard at the time. Now that the jury is in on her, I think she's here to stay.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Lands 21
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
4 Plains
2 Swamp

Artifacts 7
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Body and Mind

Spells 10
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Enlightened Tutor

Creatures 22
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant

SB 15
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Plague
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Meekstone
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Null Rod
1 Runed Halo
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

Remember this was pre MM and Batterskull. I don't think any of the other new swords were out yet either. If you want to read the tournament report you can find it here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20752-8th-at-SCG-Charlotte-with-Hate-Crimes

[Osmin]

Tim, did you drop Vial this summer only because of Mental Misstep?

Such build made top8 recently (before ban) at GPT Amsterdam (50+ people) here in Moscow:

Lands
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
3 Plains
3 Swamp

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Serra Avenger
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Aven Mindcensor

Sorceries
4 Vindicate
3 Thoughtseize

Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifacts
4 AEther Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


Upd.: Forgot proper tag for decklist :(

[Leto]

Suggestions to Tim's List (take it not to serious, as the european/german Meta is totally different from the US-Meta) in the Post-MM-Era

-Is the Karakas Main really ok, without a way to tutor it up? Sure its a good out against Emrakul and Progenitus, but in every Deck without KotR or a similar way to tutor it, it looks really random. But as I dont own one, my thoughts are theory only.

-The Equipments will be Jitte, Sword of xy and Batterskull, I assume. Vial makes SFM a lot stronger, from vialing him in EoT of your Opponent so you can vial in Batterskull on your Upkeep (if needed). Safes Batterskull from Discard... The Sword-Question is more challenging in my Opinion, as it relies much on Playstyle, which Sword fits. I for instance would go with Fire&Ice in the Main. Its Protection are OK (Blue more Important than Red) and the effects support the Deck as they fasten your Clock (Avenger = 3 Turn Clock), granting further CA and killing opposing Utility-Critter you dont want to waste your Removal on.

-As you save much Mana through Aether Vial, and you have 2 Maindeck Enlightened Tutors, wouldn't it be good to have a 1off SDT. You can tutor for it in Round 3-5 so you dont run out of Gas by drawing 11 Lands or control the Lifeloss of multiple Bobs.


Some thoughts that came on my Mind as I read your List.

In preparation for the new Liliana, I brewed this List for a Tournament on Sunday


// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Abyssal Persecutor

// Spells
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Duress
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mortarpod
3 Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Perish
SB: 1 Planar Void
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Green
SB: 3 Tidehollow Sculler


The Goal of this List, is to decide games faster than the normal DGA-Lists do. For this I included Abyssal Persecutors into the List, in the Spot of Elspeth. He is the biggest Guy in the Air, has trample and has only cc4. The Drawback was never a problem for me with 8 Removal Maindeck and a tutorable Mortarpod. With Liliana there will be even more outs for him. Second alteration is Chrome Mox. I know, its an old Hat and not everybody likes the idea (me included) but in testing he did rather well. The deck can put up some fierce starts like
T1: Mox -> Hymn T2: Vindicate his Land T3: Percy

Sideboard is rather Random as I dont know how the Ban will work out for my Meta

PS: Osmin, the tag is [.Cards][./cards] without the dot

[bfeingersh]

1: It does nothing to Progenitus.

2: It's a good one-of, the opportunity cost of running it is quite low.

[Leto]

@bfeingersh

I assume you are commenting my deck (you are a bit short in your post^^*)

1: 3 Perish from the Board + CoP: G to stall him was the Plan. I am aware I have no outs but racing him G1, but it looks ok with Percy, Batterskull, Nighthawk and Jitte

[bfeingersh]

I was referring to Karakas in general.

[Richard Cheese]

I hate maindeck Karakas. Can't be fetched, wasteable, useless 90% of the time. It should only be a sideboard card, and even then only for decks with KotR or Loam.

Also, @Leto

If you're going the Percy route, I would drop Duress/Thoughtsieze for Cabal Therapy, Nighthawk for Gatekeeper, and possibly cut Mortarpod and the 4th Persecutor. He's a good finisher, but sucks in multiples, and you definitely want something uncounterable like Therapy to be able to get rid of him. You have 8 removal main already, but you don't want to be sitting on it just so you can off your own guy.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Karakas was a hold over from when I was trying out Weathered Wayfarer. At the time Emrakul was a pretty big threat and it seemed good to have around since it was on color and occasionaly useful. I certainly wouldn't play it now.

I didn't drop Aether Vial directly because of MM. MM also made other decks, like Counterbalance and Spiral Tide, non-playable so there wasn't a need for Vial. On top of that I fell in love with Bitterblossom and the build moved away from being creature based and making Vial worse for me. I never needed Vial, in fact it usually got boarded out in some number, and it was time for it to go in large part thanks to the effect that MM had on the rest of the meta.

As I've said repeatedly, Sword of Body and Mind is the sword right now. It's just that good. This deck just grinds it out and SoBM lets you swing through your opponents threats and generate your own. I do like SoFI and SoWP is also a strong contender depending on the meta.

The MD E Tutors will probably become SFM, she wasn't nearly as powerful last time around, since I think it's good to not tip your hand in the first game and SFM is still pretty awesome.

Top is good, but if I can find room for other cards I think I would want Thoughtseize first.

[Draener]

I would think that sword of feast and famine is pretty good in the metagame, since it fight combo pretty well and still gives you protection from relevant creatures (dumb green creatures and batterskull). Combined with mother of runes to give you pro-jace, I think you will be in pretty good shape.

[Rizso]

Tim, how was the Weatherered Wayfarer in your testing?

Been liking that card sense it was printed for the first time in Onslaught.

Anyway neither of the versions will be the best. It all depends on metagame, personal preference and playstyle. For myself I cant say I like to play the vial version and prefair the more grindy version.

[annoiato]

Quick question:
is it possible to introduce in this shell the Marit combo through the use of Vampire Hexmage and Weathered Wayfarer? Or is it just sick?

[Leto]

I would be in huge trouble finding slots for this. It would be +1 Depths +3 Hexmage +2-3 Wayfarer I think, 6-7 Cards for a "3-Card-Combo" is it not worth I think.


@Richard

4th Percy is only in there because of Chrome Mox to imprint him. Mortarpod via SFM is also "semi-uncounterable" but maybe I cut somewhere for the Therapy. Something I discovered when I played with him (I have ~40 Games with him) is, that it is not really hard to get rid of him. He hits the table, swings 3times and the Opponent is under 0. Good. I need to get rid of him to win but hes still a 6/6 sitting on my side of the Table = huge Roadblock for my opponent as well while I dig with Top and Bob for the Game-ending Card. He can not play Removal on him. There are little Creatures in Legacy that can pass him. Only Problem are Decks that finish via Progenitus or by spells (Combo, Burn).

Atm I have 10 Ways to get rid of him. Vindicate, Sword, Mortarpod, Jitte, 2 of them tutorable. Maybe I put in 1 or 2 Gatekeeper as well (for him and my NORUG-MU^^)

[Osmin]

I didn't drop Aether Vial directly because of MM. MM also made other decks, like Counterbalance and Spiral Tide, non-playable so there wasn't a need for Vial. On top of that I fell in love with Bitterblossom and the build moved away from being creature based and making Vial worse for me. I never needed Vial, in fact it usually got boarded out in some number, and it was time for it to go in large part thanks to the effect that MM had on the rest of the meta.


It is not obvious for me (and I think for somebody else) to board out Vial. In what match-ups would you do this? May be Zoo and fast aggro?

[Tim the Enchanter]

I never liked Weathered Wayfarer. My buddy swore by him, but he was also playing Crucible and was able to Wastelock people. I found him to be underwhelming almost all the time. A lot of times I would try to bait a Daze of Force with him and it wouldn't work and then he wouldn't do much anyway because I really wanted to be playing other things with the mana I had.

It is not obvious for me (and I think for somebody else) to board out Vial. In what match-ups would you do this? May be Zoo and fast aggro?

The more important question is when do you leave all 4 in? The answer is against Counterbalance and combo mostly, and probably dredge so you can flash in a blocker to get rid of their Bridges. Against everything else, you are the control and need to play as such. Therefore, you need cards that answer things on the board and Vial doesn't. Plus if you board in Chalice it's dead once you land one usually.

I'm not saying that you always take all 4 out. I'm just saying that you almost always take out at least a couple. The thing with Aether Vial is that if you don't have it in your opening hand, and aren't playing against something with a bunch of counters, then you aren't going to play it until the 4th or 5th turn anyway because you have better things to be doing with that one mana. They also come out, at least in some quantity, against other Vial decks because you want to name Vial with Revoker as it's usually much more important to their gameplan than yours.

I'm thinking Elspeth may be a good addition. After playing a good but more with this deck I think that she actually can be played on a fairly regular basis. Unfortunately this list is so tight I have no idea what to cut to make room for TS and Elspeth unless it was -1 Mom, -1 Revoker, -1 Vial, -2 E Tutor for +2 SFM, +2 TS, and +1 Elspeth...

Volrath's Stronghold is another decent choice for getting back Revokers and Avengers.

Philip: No comments on the list you were beggin me for?

[Osmin]

Thanks for the explanations.

[Einherjer]

I wasnt begging, because I have my own totally different one. And I do like mine. I dont really like yours, but as youre obviously successful I cant say yours is bad. So I keep saying nothing. What do you want me to say?
I mean Id change too many things, cause I just personally dont like to play it this way - which shouldnt mean its bad - by no means.

Greetings

[Nordvoll]

Hi guys! I've mostly just been lurking the forum until now.

I have a different version of DG ale than many of you, and it have done quite well so far.
But I'm really struggeling against NOprog.

What are your sb plan against them?
I try to keep removing their creatures, so my sac effects hits Prog, but most of the time i just can't keep up with all the creatures they play.


MY deck (testing some minor changes post ban. -2 Mirran Cruasaders + 2 Ghastly Demise and some sb changes)

4 Scrublands
1 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
1 Fetid heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

1 Batterskull
1 SOLAS
1 Jitte

4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vampire Nighthawk

2 Ghastly Demise
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Hymn
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate

SB
1 Relic of Progentius
1 Thorn of Amethyst (or cannonist)
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Diabolic edict
4 Surgical Extraction

[Krondo9]

Run Perish. It is easily NO RUG's worst nightmare.

[bfeingersh]

Depending on your meta you might prefer Retribution of the Meek as it hits a lot of the same decks, although it's obviously slightly worse against RUG and significantly worse against Zoo. Retribution catches some other stuff that Perish doesn't: Tombstalker, Emrakul, Reanimator.dec, most creatures with Swords on them.

(FWIW I side 3 Perishes and 0 Retributions)

[Surak]

did anyone test lilliana of the veil already?
How did she play?

[Einherjer]

Another question: With the meta getting faster, is it time to go back to Dark Ritual or Chrome Mox?

[Rizso]

Quite sure merfolk will return with full force as it was before misstep took over the format. Quite sure im gonna stick with mox just to get alot more power when being on draw. Hopefully merfolk takes over the format making combo less appealing to play :P. I for one dont really want to use slots in the board for the combo if i dont really have to.

Hopefully alot more will be known after the next scg open.

[annoiato]

Quite sure im gonna stick with mox just to get alot more power when being on draw.
Do you always side out mox in g2 and g3 (if you are not on draw)?

[Tim the Enchanter]

I almost always sided out moxen games two and three regardless of if I was on the draw or play.

Like I've said before, I think it's time for a return to Aether Vials. Good luck resolving anything under a Counter-Top lock.

[Leto]

I'm not sold on a return of CBTop, they had big problems before MM was printed due to a more diverse Mana-Curve in many decks and Cards like GSZ.

I am not that experienced, so maybe I am wrong on that thought, but some People who are way smarter than I am think the same, so I am not really worried about CounterTop atm^^

[Abantau]

4 mother of runes
4 phyrexian revoker
4 dark confidant
4 serra avenger
2 jotun grunt
3 tidehallow skuller
3 stoneforge mystic
3 leonin relic-warder

4 swords to plowshares

4 aether vial
1 batterskull
1 sword of light and shadow
1 sword of body and mind
1 umezawa's jitte

1 karakas
2 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
3 swamp
3 plain
4 scrubland
4 wasteland

Sideboard
3 enlightened tutor
1 thorn of amethyst
1 tormod's crypt
1 relic of progenitus
1 ethersworn canonist
1 chalice of the void
2 ghostly prison
1 engineered plague
1 cursed totem
1 rune halo
2 burrenton forge-tender

Hi guys went back to the vial build with MM getting axed, and im taking this to a local tourey next week.

Took out vindicate and put in relic warder so that it wont be affected by thorn of amethyst.

Weighing the possibilities that combo and countertop will get a comeback and felt that vial is in a good position here.

What do the vial users think?

[ubernostrum]

I've played with variations of Tim's Vial build off and on since seeing his performance in Charlotte, and now I'm leaning toward running something like it next weekend in Nashville. Got some tough choices to make, though, and thinking I probably can't reliably make them until late tomorrow when we see what sorts of things happen in Indy.

Anyway... thoughts/opinions would be appreciated on the following:

Serra Avenger: right now I'm running a split of 2 Avenger, 2 Mirran Crusader. Avenger's awesome, of course, but having a Crusader or two main has helped quite a bit shoring up the Zoo matchup and breaking some of the ground stalemates that come up a lot versus Junk. Not sure the split's right, though, especially if there's a lot of fish in the field.

The twenty-first land: I'd been running a singleton Volrath's Stronghold in this slot since the recursion's always handy, but over time I'm less and less impressed with it. Despite Tim's complaints about it not really belonging in his original list, I'm kinda feeling like going back to a Karakas here just because it sometimes randomly wins a game. Also, while the matchup against Hive Mind is good, things get a lot worse when they switch to the S&T into Emrakul plan, and I wouldn't complain about having another way around that.

Elspeth or Bitterblossom: right now I'm running one Elspeth, no Blossoms. Given that I'm already running Bob and don't have ways to gain life outside of Jitte, I feel a bit anxious about running Bitterblossom. On the other hand, a resolved Blossom just beats so many decks right now.

For the record, here's the list I'm tinkering with at the moment:

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler

Equipment
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Other
4 Aether Vial
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate

Land
2 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
4 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Plague
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Null Rod
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

[unicoerner]

I would add another Mystic and one Batterskull. Then you have more ways to get life. Then you could remove the Else for Bitterblossom

[Einherjer]

Do I see right? Not a single Thoughtseize or Hymn to Tourach? Thats madness. My list looks like this at the moment:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Bitterblossom

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Batterskull
1 SoLaS
1 SoBaM
1 Umezawas Jitte
3 Senseis Divining Top

4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Fetid Heath
3 Swamps
1 Plains


Thats what I would consider to be a DGA - the Vial-lists are more like Blades of Glory?

Greetings

[Aadz0r]

I went 2nd place out of 41 in a GPT today winning 3 byes for GP Amsterdam. I ran the following list:

Lands (21)
4x Scrubland
4x Marsh Flats
4x Plains
2x Swamp
3x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland

Artifacts (7)
4x Aether Vial
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Creatures (24)
4x Mother of Runes
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Dark Confidant
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Serra Avenger

Instants (6)
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Go for the Throat

Sorceries (2)
2x Vindicate

Sideboard (15)
3x Perish
4x Mindbreak Trap
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Phyrexian Metamorph

My matches were:
1: 2-0 vs Maverick
2: 2-1 vs Team America
3: 2-0 vs UW Stoneblade (he finished 1st)
4: 2-0 vs Reanimate
5: I.D.
6: 1-2 vs ANT with white splash

Quarter's: 2-1 vs Reanimate (same as round 4)
Semi's: 2-1 vs ANT (same as round 6)
Finals: vs UW Stoneblade (same as round 3) We split the prizes and played for planeswalker points. He won the first game, and I decided to just scoop the second, as my friends were already waiting for like 2 hours on me, and I was getting extremely tired and hungry. I really liked the vial version and am definitely taking this to the GP.

[Osmin]

Hi, Aadz0r! Congratulations on finish.
Could you describe your sideboard plans? Side ins/outs.

[Aadz0r]

Well, I created the sideboard the night before. I had a board without Enlightened Tutor, but after finding out that my combo match was worse than I expected, I decided to pack lots of anti combo. So, I brewed the sideboard with a friend who always plays ANT, so he told me what was good which was; if you have a canonist with protection on the field and a Mindbreak Trap in your hand they basically can't win. So I decided to go with the Tutors to make up for the space that the Trap's cost me. I wanted some hate against the random Dredge match which is pretty bad for us, and something against burn. I really wanted to play Warmth, but I couldn't borrow it from anyone, so CoP:Red is also good, especially with an active Vial. The Metamorph was for Reanimate, NO, and Show and Tell decks.

I'm usually very bad at sideboarding, so besides the things that are usual I might have done a couple of things wrong, but my boarding was as followed:

Vs Maverick: -1x Stoneforge Mystic, -1x Batterskull, -1x Vindicate, +3x Perish.
I don't really like Batterskull in this match, and so 4x Stoneforge is also too much. I think I should've removed another Stoneforge instead of the Vindicate.

Vs Team America: I believe I removed 3x Phyrexian Revoker and added 3x Perish. He only plays 4x Tarmogoyf I know, but since Revoker didn't have a target against him (I didn't see any Jace), extra removal is never bad. I left the last Revoker in, because I thought there was nothing to add, but I should've either put in a Metamorph to be able to block his Goyf or Tombstalker, or a Relic to weaken his Goyfs.

Vs UW Stoneblade: Nothing. The entire deck is just amazing against them. I didn't bring anything to ease this match up, because I think it is already at least 60-40 with all the hate we play, and I didn't bring a sideboard to ease our good matches, but rather to improve our bad ones.

Vs Reanimate: -4x Phyrexian Revoker, -1x Batterskull, +2x Enlightened Tutor, +1x Wheel of Sun and Moon, +1x Relic of Progenitus, +1x Phyrexian Metamorph
The revokers have no targets against him, and the Batterskull is just useless if they have a fattie. What came in seems pretty obvious right.

Vs ANT: -4x Swords to Plowshares, -2x Go for the Throat, -1 Stoneforge Mystic, -1x Batterskull. +4x Mindbreak Trap, +1x Ethersworn Canonist, +1x Thorn of Amethyst, +2x Enlightened Tutor.
Also seems pretty obvious to me. I need all the hate I can possibly get. I won game 2 on exactly what I hoped for: Canonist + Mindbreak Trap, and lost game 3 because I kept a hand with little hate. SHould've mulled there, but I was already top 8 and figured, screw it.

The top 8 matches were only matches that I already played before, and I believe I boarded the same. There was just one epic moment against Reanimate in the semi's. I had Vindicate + Swords to Plowshares in my hand with a confidant on the board. It was 1-1 in games, so the winner would go through to the last 4. He reanimates Iona naming white so I was pretty screwed, so I was like ****. Only Go for the Throat saves me now, so I flip with confidant: Phyrexian Metamorph. Me happy face, he looked like he wanted to throw up. After that I beat him down with confidant. :) And another moment was in the last game vs ANT in the semis, where he saw my hand, and saw I was holding a Mindbreak Trap, I draw Revoker in my turn, and have a Vial on 2, so I pass the turn. He plays Chant, Ponder, Dark Ritual, LED. I respond with Vial into Revoker and he puts up the 'sad face'. Two turns later I have lethal on the board next turn, and he tries to combo off without protection hoping that I would fail, but when the 5th card he plays is a tutor, and he has no cards in hand, I trap his tutor and win the game.

If you guys have any tips for me please tell me, cause I still suck with sideboarding and would love to get some advise from more experienced players.

[Einherjer]

Did you NEVER miss Thoughtseite or Hymn to Tourach? I couldnt play without them.

[ubernostrum]

My own experience with playing Vial builds off and on for the past few months is that you really need to think about it as a different sort of deck. Traditional DGA runs heavy disruption and wants to use it to knock the opponent out of the game quickly, so that the sub-par (by Legacy standards) creatures can mop up.

The Vial builds, though, play a more tempo-oriented game; the disruption is lighter and less straightforward, and so you have to use it more carefully -- where "Swamp, Mox, Hymn you" is almost never a bad first-turn play with the traditional builds, a Vial-oriented deck will rarely drop Tidehollow Sculler immediately; in this deck it fills the sort of role Vendilion Clique does in some of the newer breeds of blue decks. You want to hang on to Scullers to Vial in response to a critical combo piece, or to clear the way for something that has to resolve.

Same goes for Phyrexian Revoker, and the Enlightened Tutor package with a bunch of bullets in the board; it's a different approach, and takes some getting used to, but can be very rewarding once you have some familiarity with it (and when the meta's right).

[Einherjer]

Well said.
But in the european Meta the "traditional DGA" as you call it is known as Deadguy Ale - whereas the "Vial-oriented deck" as you call it is known as Blades of Glory, so if you ask me, there are 2 different archetypes.

[Richard Cheese]

After that movie with Will Ferrel and Josh Heder?

[warai]

I see several builds using Tidehollow Sculler as the only source for discard. With combo returning in full strength Thoughtseize is an auto include.

I prefer the Non-Vial list with a more disrupt oriented package and less creatures. Stoneforge Mystic, Confidant and Sculler with Bitterblossom and equipment do the job.

[Einherjer]

You would play the Sculler without playing Aether Vials? Thats pretty risky.

My list for reference:
Manabase
3 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
2 Fetid Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
5 Swamps

Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jötun Grunt

Discard
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize

Removal
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate


Rest
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Bitterblossom

Equips
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow (or Fire and Ice)

[warai]

I would play it but only as a 2 of in a non vial build.

If you play Vial you need to play 3/4 of and reduce the number of Hymns/Duress in order to take full advantage of it.

[bfeingersh]

I played 4 Scullers between main and board over the last few months and never ran Vials.

I'm playing in a small tournament for Forces this weekend. If I don't find the remaining cards for my new Wizards list (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22218-Team-Wizzy-(Grixis-Wizards)) (3 Volcanics and a USea... ugh.), I'll probably be running Deadguy or Esper Deadguy. Any thoughts on which is the best sword now?

[ivanpei]

I'm not really sure where to post my list as basically I'm playing a blue splash deadguy. It's similar to this deck so I'll just post it here for discussion. Here's the list:

4 Bob
4 SFM
4 Snapcaster
4 Mom

1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
4 Stp
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Ghastly Demise
4 Brainstorm
4 Hymm to Tourach
2 Vindicate

4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
9 Fetch
1 Swamp

Basically the blue splash is for brainstorm and snapcaster. Why play the 3rd colour? Brainstorm IMO is what stands between deadguy and other superior midrange decks. Brainstorm gives blue decks consistency and is a unique effect that deadguy cannot replicate (top really isn't that efficient). Ever draw too much discard and have them sitting dead in your hand when your opponent has nothing in hand but he is ahead in board position?

That's what brainstorm can help with, fixing mana screw/floods and shuffling back chaff. What I like about snapcaster is that he is ideal in this type of deck. In a blue core deck (force and dazes) snapcaster cannot reliably recast force/daze, so the number of snaps you can run is limited. Also snapcaster works best in a deck with equipment so he becomes a legitimate threat and not just a coral merfolk.

There are 14 1cc cards snapcaster can target in this deck and also 4 2cc ones in Hymm. For those who have experienced it, double hymm is absolutely crippling and Snapcaster really helps up discard/removal density. That's why I find him better than say Serra Avenger/Jotun Grunt/Tidehollow Sculler/Phyrexian revoker. These creatures are narrow, they are just good against either aggro or control/combo. Snapcaster is both excellent against aggro, control and combo while upping your creature count and potential equipment carriers.

[bfeingersh]

Ever draw too much discard and have them sitting dead in your hand when your opponent has nothing in hand but he is ahead in board position?
...
What I like about snapcaster is that he is ideal in this type of deck. In a blue core deck (force and dazes) snapcaster cannot reliably recast force/daze, so the number of snaps you can run is limited.
Yes.

Also snapcaster works best in a deck with equipment so he becomes a legitimate threat and not just a coral merfolk.
YES.

I've been testing a UBr Wizards deck with Snapcaster, a small faerie package (Sprites/Cliques), Bob and Lavamancer and the issue is that nothing is a threat without the 2 random equipment (Jitte/SOFAF).

I'm going to run this tonight at our testing session with the following changes:

-1 Fetch
-1 Snapcaster
-1 Mom Runes
-1 Thoughtseize

+1 Elspeth KE
+3 Serra Avenger

Sideboard I haven't decided on but I figure it will have at least 6 cheap counters (Pierces, maybe Counterspell?) for combo, at least 3 Perishes, another Vindicate, and probably Scullers.

Edit: After thinking about it some more I don't think I'll run the Avengers. I am going to cut 1 land for an Elspeth though.

[Einherjer]

I won the locals yesterday with the following list:
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Plains

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jotun Grunt

3 Senseis Divining Top
3 Bitterblossom
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 SoBaM
1 SoLaS
1 Batterskull

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

And I still DONT think Vial is the way to go.

[warai]

I'm not really sure where to post my list as basically I'm playing a blue splash deadguy. It's similar to this deck so I'll just post it here for discussion. Here's the list:

4 Bob
4 SFM
4 Snapcaster
4 Mom

1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
4 Stp
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Ghastly Demise
4 Brainstorm
4 Hymm to Tourach
2 Vindicate

4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
9 Fetch
1 Swamp

Basically the blue splash is for brainstorm and snapcaster. Why play the 3rd colour? Brainstorm IMO is what stands between deadguy and other superior midrange decks. Brainstorm gives blue decks consistency and is a unique effect that deadguy cannot replicate (top really isn't that efficient). Ever draw too much discard and have them sitting dead in your hand when your opponent has nothing in hand but he is ahead in board position?

That's what brainstorm can help with, fixing mana screw/floods and shuffling back chaff. What I like about snapcaster is that he is ideal in this type of deck. In a blue core deck (force and dazes) snapcaster cannot reliably recast force/daze, so the number of snaps you can run is limited. Also snapcaster works best in a deck with equipment so he becomes a legitimate threat and not just a coral merfolk.

There are 14 1cc cards snapcaster can target in this deck and also 4 2cc ones in Hymm. For those who have experienced it, double hymm is absolutely crippling and Snapcaster really helps up discard/removal density. That's why I find him better than say Serra Avenger/Jotun Grunt/Tidehollow Sculler/Phyrexian revoker. These creatures are narrow, they are just good against either aggro or control/combo. Snapcaster is both excellent against aggro, control and combo while upping your creature count and potential equipment carriers.

I like your list, but it lacks 2 Unearth Maindeck. Take Mother of Runes out and insert some Tidehollow Sculler to take greater advantage from the ETB triggers.

[bfeingersh]

I ended up playing Ivan's list with -1 Mom, IoK, Fetch, Tundra, +1 Plains, Elspeth, 2 Unearths. Pretty happy with it but I'd like to get a sword in there somewhere.

[paladin3056]

Seems this deck isn't dead after all. See list below from this link: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6915&iddeck=50153

Deck Name: B/W Stoneblade Position: 4
Deadguy Ale Daniel Potter Sideboard

Creatures [25]
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler

Instants [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [6]
2 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize

Artifacts [4]
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Lands [21]
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Fetid Heath
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland

Sideboard [15]
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Path to Exile
2 Perish
1 Retribution of the Meek
2 Vindicate

Interestingly, it seems that this deck didn't play any chrome mox and vials and went straight to aggro instead packing disrupting creatures like Mother of Runes, Revokers, Tidehollows and Aven mindcensor then using strong hitters like Mirran Crusader. Sideboard looks good to utilizing the ET package as well. Looks like the old DGA Vial deck with no Vials to me.

Any other thoughts?

[makochman]

Seems this deck isn't dead after all. See list below from this link:

Interestingly, it seems that this deck didn't play any chrome mox and vials and went straight to aggro instead packing disrupting creatures like Mother of Runes, Revokers, Tidehollows and Aven mindcensor then using strong hitters like Mirran Crusader. Sideboard looks good to utilizing the ET package as well. Looks like the old DGA Vial deck with no Vials to me.


Deadguy was never dead (pun unintended).

Because Mental Misstep is out, Deadguy doesn't really want Chrome Mox anymore, and can play more 1-drops. Counterbalance has not made a return (yet?), so Aether Vial is not needed either. A simple yet elegant build I must say.

[Rizso]

Seems this deck isn't dead after all. See list below from this link: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6915&iddeck=50153

Deck Name: B/W Stoneblade Position: 4
Deadguy Ale Daniel Potter Sideboard

Creatures [25]
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler

Instants [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [6]
2 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize

Artifacts [4]
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Lands [21]
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Fetid Heath
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland

Sideboard [15]
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Path to Exile
2 Perish
1 Retribution of the Meek
2 Vindicate

Interestingly, it seems that this deck didn't play any chrome mox and vials and went straight to aggro instead packing disrupting creatures like Mother of Runes, Revokers, Tidehollows and Aven mindcensor then using strong hitters like Mirran Crusader. Sideboard looks good to utilizing the ET package as well. Looks like the old DGA Vial deck with no Vials to me.

Any other thoughts?

I saw the last game of his against Team America where he lost against geting his land wasted and Snapcaster being a badass. Cant say im a fan of karakas, show and tell is alot weaker now with alot faster combos in the format. Without mental misstep in the format, Thoughtseize is once again one of the strongest spells in the format. I like his version, fan of Mother of Runes. She makes game math alot harder for the opponent.

[willhocks]

I went 6-2-1 at the Starcity Open in Indianapolis ending up 23rd with a BW list. I have subsequently decided on a light blue splash for Snapcaster Mage. I had a lengthy description of my card choice reasoning typed up but the interwebs decided to delete it and now I'm too lazy to retype it. Here's my current list:

4x Thoughtseize
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Vindicate
2x Hymn to Tourach
2x Esper Charm

4x Dark Confidant
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Serra Avenger
2x Snapcaster Mage

3x Aether Vial
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Feast and Famine

4x Scrubland
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
2x Swamp
1x Plains
4x Marsh Flats
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand

SB:
3x Perish
2x Path to Exile
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Spell Pierce
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Serenity
1x Planar Void
1x Phyrexian Metamorph

The Deck is very streamlined and has been very consistent for me. I'm still testing the 2x Esper Charm//Hymn split but I have to say so far I haven't once wished that the Charm in my hand was a Hymn instead. I also like Vial as a 3 of, because it is always trumped turn 1 by Thoughtseize and I never want to see multiples of it, but when I do stick one it is often crucial for my tempo. (And Tidehollow+Vial is just stupid good.)

[ubernostrum]

This list I posted on the previous page (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2597-Deck-Deadguy-Ale-(B-w-Confidant)&p=591211&viewfull=1#post591211) was what I ended up running at SCG Nashville, to 6-2 and an 18th place finish. Only changes I'd make are probably cutting the last two Serra Avengers and going all-in on Mirran Crusader, and swapping Perish in for Ghostly Prison in the board (Perish would have changed the outcome of at least one of my losses).

There was never a point when I wanted Feast and Famine over Body and Mind, or Thoughtseize or any other "real" discard, let alone any sort of third-color splash :)

[f|i[p]]

brought a similar list to a tournament and failed with it... I don't think im such a bad player however...

with 21 lands 4 vials

all creatures were 2 cc...

and the only spells I needed 3 mana was for 3 vindicates and the equipments...

Relying on serra avenger as the only win condition is also probably a mistake on my part..

I often found the deck mana hungry...and always wanting my 3rd land.. and 4th...mana drop
Im not sure if its because there is so much 2 cc spells or what... or if its because I mostly faced aggro decks...

The deck felt really slow....but I also felt it was capable of winning any match ups....

I guess that was my main concern, lack of win conditions and its quite slow..

[danpo]

Howdy! Thanks for the kind words on my list for Starcity Nashville.
A lazy, late and hasty report follows:

Placed fourth out of 169 last weekend with W/b Stoneblade. List here. (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/20362)
Basically I went in expecting a field of High Tide, Tendrils, Ichorid and Merfolk. I ended up facing these decks zero times, but had a fun day and made $850, so no complaints!
In the wake of Mental Misstep’s banning I had thought about incorporating blue into the deck I placed 9th with in Atlanta (http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40717), possibly sans FOW in the vein of the James R. Bant deck that won the Grand Prix (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gppro11/welcome).
In the end I went with the assumption that it’s easier to Thoughtseize correctly than cast Force of Will correctly. Think about it: Hymning yourself to get ahead is hard! I also opted to just let Hymn and Gatekeeper go because I figured getting BB and BBB would be hard if I was serious about casting Mirran Crusader. The end result I didn’t even shuffle until we were underway. Ha!

R1
Heath was playing Natural Order/Show and Tell. G1 he wins the roll and has an early Hierarch. I mulled to five but turn-two a Phyrexian Revoker naming Hierarch, and on turn three Heath is sad. A subsequent Wasteland into Sculler reveals I have indeed crushed his hopes and dreams of a T3 Natural Order.
G2 He manages to get Jitte on a 3/4 Goyf, at which point he kills a dude and goes to 4/5, enabling Retribution of the Meek to solve the board. Discard keeps him pinned down and off his combos while I smash him down.
2-0

R2
The mirror! Whaaaat?
Game one takes a half hour and climaxes in an epic board state as I have Revoker, Bob, Stoneforge and two Moms versus his two Phyrexian Crusaders and like a Stoneforge, and we both have Sword of Feast and Famine on the board, plus he has Jitte. I keep Momming up something carrying equipment to get in, and my opponent can’t swing back effectively because I’m moving gear to untapped guys and leaving Revoker behind to shunt his pro-white, pro-black Crusader’s protection and in turn get protection of its own via Mom - no Jitte counters sir! Eventually the card-advantage from keeping Bob alive just smothers him, but it was close: a couple times I had to remember to peel Jitte counters of my own for insurance life before revealing to Bob.
At some point my opponent also wasted one of his Vindicates by forgetting what Mom does, which didn’t hurt me.
G2 I keep a loose hand, he Hymns away my white source and thusly steals game two with poison counters. Game three ends in a draw befitting the mirror. Nice opponent!
1-0-1

R3
Played against Dustin, a friend of a friend I’ve split a few rooms with. Dustin is hilarious and addresses me as “Witch” all the time. Incidentally I am wearing a SkeletonWitch shirt and Dustin loves Jesus. Yep.
He is with Esper Counterbalance today, and we both mull to 6 when Dustin declares “Oh you’re getting raped!” I then mull to four and keep a hand of Fetid Heath, Vindicate, Aven Mindcensor, Mirran Crusader.
Dustin plays Island, Top, and then spins on one land for a few turns while I hit runner-runner lands into Aven Mindcensor on three. By this point Dustin, still stuck on one, has had to discard a Dreadnought I think. He remarks aloud he’s not sure whether or not he cares, clearly holding counter, and lets Mindcensor resolve.
He then finds three fetchlands and whiffs on all of them. At some point I make him counter a Vindicate and maybe stick a Wasteland on Underground Sea? The whole time I’m like “In for two.” “In for two.”
Basically that Mindcensor tips some very awkward luck in my favor.
I don’t remember game two at all except to say I think Mirran Crusader was rude and Dustin was not happy.
2-0-1.

R4
Nice opponent in Bant, he finished 9th. List here. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gppro11/welcome)
I almost mess up game one as we have an awkward ground stall and I can’t seem to find a fourth land to go Jitte Equip in one go, even though I chose Jitte with a Mystic! I tell him I am going to make a weird play, him knowing Jitte is in my hand by choice, and I play another Mystic to get Batterskull, which proceeds to solve all my problems. Game two is helped when his Meddling Mage names Swords to Plowshares, which is in his hand but never mine. He cracks in for awhile double-exalted but I stabilize with equipment and I think a late Perish salts the wound.
3-0-1

R5
Raul is playing Snapcaster BUG and game one he shreds my hand with flashback Inquisition of Kozilek and my Thoughtseizes feel real lousy by comparison. This game takes like a half hour and I end up getting ground down by a Snapcaster that does probably 14 damage. I don’t remember much except game two I got double Mom via Fetid Heath on T2 which made Raul’s spot removal hate life, and G3 was very close and may have been in turns when I just barely managed to kill him thanks to huge card advantage from Bob breaking a topdeck war, and I think Sword of Fire and Ice pushing me over the top in the nick of time. Aven Mindcensor also kept him one mana short of what he needed for what would've been the clutch Pernicious Deed. Another very nice and entertaining opponent!
4-0-1

R6
Chris Van Meter
U/W Stoneblade, eventual 2nd place finisher, list here. (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41200)
He plays an early Stoneforge for Batterskull, but I keep him off cheating it in by naming Stoneforge with Revoker. Life is good until I attack said Revoker into a Mutavault, d’oh. I maintain relative parity for a long time with two Moms, but probably make a mistake in trying to just race Chris instead of murdering a Jace that sat on five counters and Brainstormed probably four turns in a row. Somewhere in there I also played Mother of Runes like it was 1998 and tapped blockers don’t deal damage. If you think that’s bad you should hear me bitch about wanting damage to stack so I can 2-for-1 people with Qasali Pridemage...
G2 he sticks an Elspeth and I respond with my best impersonation of this right here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Scream.jpg).
Super nice opponent, and also mega humble when I asked about life as an alléged professional.
4-1-1.

R7
Adam is playing Zoo and forgets to attack me with his T2 Pridemage, then taps out without using it, affording me a window to actually STP it and thereby keep some equipment out. This all proves costly for him, as at one point this game I am on three life, meaning if he’d remembered to swing he would’ve taken it. Instead I eventually stabilize my life with Batterskull and win.
Game two takes too long and I also lose. I encourage Adam to play faster and more sloppily because our two decks should really really not be starting game three with less than ten minutes remaining, but there we are. Looking back I was probably brusque over not wanting to wind up drawing in extra turns; I hope this did not hurt old Adam’s feelings, as I have known him since about 2006.
Anyway game three he forgets I have Mother of Runes on the board a couple of times and loses a couple of burn spells this way. I manage to find a Mirran Crusader and smash all in during extra turns #2 and 4 with like Mom and Stoneforge and stuff to squeak enough damage through. I was at enough life to happily not use Swords to Plowshares on his Knight of the Big/Big, as doing so would’ve given him waaay too much life to get there with my last possible attack.
5-1-1.

R8
Win and in. Drew is a nice guy who ends up 16th with Imperial Aluren, list here. (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41216)
I have the discard and the dudes to keep him from ever seeming too close to combo-ing out. I'm definitely just smashing in with Moms as I'm confident removal isn't my main concern from him. But I can’t remember quite what his kill-mech is so I let a Revoker sit in my hand about four turns while grinding him out. Answer: should’ve named Cavern Harpy and ground him out faster, but I got there.
G2 he mulls to four. To salt the wound I have E.Tutor for Canonist and Sculler his Repeal. Sorry dude.
6-1-1.

In the top eight I vote to split, because betting double-or-nothing $325 on the assumption you won’t get screwed is like surfing in trunks made of steak: just asking to get bit. Anyway I believe my opponent declined, and you can read about that costing him here:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/quarterfinals_bobby_graves_vs_.html
When reviewing my decklist he asked what Retribution of the Meek does. I told him it kills Tombstalkers and leaves Mirran Crusader intact. Sorry, is that rude?
7-1-1.

In the top four we agree to split and I am suddenly able to Vial in three car payments ahead of curve. $_$
Then Todd Anderson rolls me 2-0; his list here (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41205). If you caught it live and thought I played sloppy as hell, you’re right.
I guess Revoker could name Pernicious Deed against his board but whatever, Todd is definitely a tighter player than me and good for him; he was a very nice and fun opponent and maaad patient even when I was busy making illegal plays and getting warned. So good for him and Chris.

Thoughts on my 75:
My manabase needs tuning. Urborg is cute but rarely relevant. The fishy dudes are all awesome. I’m not in love with Batterskull but sometimes it just batters a bunch of skull while gaining you like 8 life and making racing seem miserable for the opponent. I often boarded out whatever piece of gear seemed least relevant and the fourth Mystic, and often boarded in Vindicates. Not having at least one Engineered Plague to tutor-up post-board feels like a mistake in retrospect. It’s tempting to say a Thoughtseize or three could be replaced with Inquisition because the lifeloss gets scary and Sculler also hits whatever else you’re scared of, but how that split skews someone else has to figure out. I NEVER WISHED I HAD AETHER VIAL OR CHROME MOX OR BITTERBLOSSOM.

Props: everyone from Murfreesboro who reminded me not to have too much fun and instead win. Sterling for retrieving pizza. This: ! (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/13775)<---This list right here. I knew I hadn’t been smart enough to figure this approach out on my own.

Slops: I'm trying to talk less shit these days, friends. Play a bunch of Magic and freak out, okay?

[lyracian]

I NEVER WISHED I HAD AETHER VIAL OR CHROME MOX OR BITTERBLOSSOM.

Props: everyone from Murfreesboro who reminded me not to have too much fun and instead win. Sterling for retrieving pizza. This: ! (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/13775)<---This list right here. I knew I hadn’t been smart enough to figure this approach out on my own.

Nice report.
You say you never missed having Vial and then link a list with four of them? Are you planning to change to that next or saying that is what you based your list on?

[lyracian]

I NEVER WISHED I HAD AETHER VIAL OR CHROME MOX OR BITTERBLOSSOM.

Props: everyone from Murfreesboro who reminded me not to have too much fun and instead win. Sterling for retrieving pizza. This: ! (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/13775)<---This list right here. I knew I hadn’t been smart enough to figure this approach out on my own.

Nice report.
You say you never missed having Vial and then link a list with four of them? Are you planning to change to that next or saying that is what you based your list on?

[danpo]

I linked to the list from SCG Charlotte that played E.Tutor and Vial because I was a bigger fan of that 60 in May and June than seemingly clunkier lists packing weird numbers of Rituals and Chrome Moxes in hopes of resolving everything from Mirran Crusader to Phyrexian Obliterator. Awk-ward.
At the time playing Tidehollow Sculler seemed like an offbeat choice over Hymn to Tourach, and maindeck Revoker struck me as strange, but I built that list and had grand fun with it for awhile, then put it on the back burner to focus on G/W Maverick for a couple months, and still had it in mind when I came back to W/B. So! Credit where credit's due, hence that link.
(G/W is what convinced me to switch from Serra Avengers to the Mindcensor/Crusader team btw.)
Anyway yeah I like the idea of being able to name Vial with Revoker, and mana issues aside I like the way my list top-decked, and I think it's plenty susceptible to Pernicious Deed already, so I guess my bottom line is no, I'm not planning on reverting to Vial this minute.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Since I can't get to the linked site at work I'm goin to assume that the list you linked is my T8 list from Charlotte. I'm glad it was an inspiration and led you to good things. Obviously it wasn't perfect since there were very few people that took the list seriously until I did well with it, and even then it seemd to be plagued by naysayers and bad pilots.

If I start playing Magic again I'll definitely be looking closely at the differences between the two lists. I do like Mindcensor quite a bit and think he's really good for this style deck.

Thanks for the credit.

[timmycolossus]

So My question is. How is the matchup against control decks like bugstill, ub control, and uw control with snapcaster? Next question If the matchup is poor what can be used in the board to improve the matchup? For instance would vial improve the matchup against control. I know I have a lot of different questions but I am a maverick player and am looking to be able to play a creature based version of this deck.

[Einherjer]

Im playing an Vialless Version of this deck with 4 Thoughtseize 4 Hymn etc. and as creatures 4 SFM 4 Bob 4 Nighthawk 2 Jotun Grunt and rest some removal und equipment stuff and Bitterblossom.

I didnt have any problems with any Controlmatches before Snapcaster came, didnt play DeadguyAle since the release. I dont know if it changed much but they were all somewhat favourable.

[Swindy]

we have a bit of a bad matchup with control decks because we play a 1 for 1 game, as do they but we have nothing as high impact as jace. there are three ways I have liked in testing to deal with this problem but none of them involve staying strictly B/w
1. Red splash (a single plateau will do if money is tight) gives you access to pyroblast which is amazing.

2. blue splash, as discussed above a blue splash for snapcaster, brainstorm and if you really want mana leak is quite powerful as our snapcasters are better than theirs (snappy + force = bad snappy + hymn = amazing)

3. green splash. The addition of 1-2 green sources to play 3-4 copies of knight of the reliquary (NOT GOYF) can allow us to have more high impact spells so as to end the game much faster. do not use tarmogoyf! a big dumb beater is the last thing we need! the difference between 2 and 3 cmc shouldn't be too relevant in the control matchups anyways.


As for fighting it in just straight black white it can be done but is very hard. you need to go ultra aggressive with targeted discard getting rid of their powerful control elements (free spells, board wipe, jace) and then use one or two high impact creatures (SfM, bob) to gain a ton of advantage. we beat these deck by beating them at their own game. card advantage is king and we can make tons of it

[ubernostrum]

Control decks are not a bad matchup, unless they're Counterbalance-based and can get the engine running before you stick a Vial :)

Seriously, in Nashville I lost to Todd playing BUG because I wasn't really awake yet and because I'd been expecting him to be on NO RUG. Otherwise... well, the following round I basically obliterated a Stoneblade opponent.

If you're running the Vial build, obviously that's your strongest card against them, but really the whole deck's good. You're putting them in a Zoo-ish sort of dilemma where they don't have enough counterspells and removal to deal with everything you cast, and your creatures do much more disruptive things to their game plan. Zoo doesn't Revoker their Jaces and Mystics, or run Mom to protect from spot removal and keep those bears hating. Plus, Jace dies to Vindicate, just like practically every other permanent in the game.

And, honestly, the control decks just aren't running enough board sweeps nowadays to make a dent; even as little "discard" as Sculler can get there.

[yutang]

Hey all

I recently picked up three sweet altered Bitterblossoms and I thought of Deadguy Ale as a deck that I've always wanted to play. I'm reading through most of this thread (still on Page 123) but I just wanted to put this list up for your critiquing:

Lands (22)
4x Swamp
4x Scrubland
2x Plains
4x Marsh Flats
2x Arid Mesa
2x Verdant Catacombs

Creatures (12): - Is this too little?
4x Dark Confidant
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Tidehollow Sculler

Planeswalkers (3):
2x Liliana of the Veil - Don't see why this doesn't fit in Deadguy Ale, she provides both removal and discard
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant - Late game card, shores up Zoo matchup

Enchantments (3):
3x Bitterblossom - I really want these in the deck

Artifacts (3):
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Body and Mind

Discard (10):
2x Cabal Therapy - Goes well with Bitterblossoms
4x Inquisition of Kozilek - No Thoughtseize due to 1) Budget reasons and 2) Better against Zoo which we struggle against
4x Hymn to Tourach - Is this outdated? However, my meta is quite blue

Removal (7):
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Vindicate

Sideboard:
3x Perish (Zoo, GW Maverick)
1x Sword of Fire/Ice (Tribal)
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Planar Void
1x Warmth (Burn)
2x Engineered Plague (Tribal)
1x Cursed Totem (DnT)
1x Serenity (Enchantress)
1x Ethersworn Canonist (Storm)


I understand that this deck's weaker matchups are Zoo and G/W Maverick. Are the Perishes enough to shore up this matchup?

Furthermore, I have seen the move towards Vial lists with hatebears - is that a better direction than the more controllish style of my deck?

[Rizso]

2 BW decks in the top 16 scg Kansas city, 1 vial version 1 Mox version.'

The deck is fine against Maverick. Reason zoo is bad mu is cos of their reach and loads of removal all the reach gives.

[funyun45]

Hey all

I recently picked up three sweet altered Bitterblossoms and I thought of Deadguy Ale as a deck that I've always wanted to play. I'm reading through most of this thread (still on Page 123) but I just wanted to put this list up for your critiquing:

Lands (22)
4x Swamp
4x Scrubland
2x Plains
4x Marsh Flats
2x Arid Mesa
2x Verdant Catacombs

Creatures (12): - Is this too little?
4x Dark Confidant
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Tidehollow Sculler

Planeswalkers (3):
2x Liliana of the Veil - Don't see why this doesn't fit in Deadguy Ale, she provides both removal and discard
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant - Late game card, shores up Zoo matchup

Enchantments (3):
3x Bitterblossom - I really want these in the deck

Artifacts (3):
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Body and Mind

Discard (10):
2x Cabal Therapy - Goes well with Bitterblossoms
4x Inquisition of Kozilek - No Thoughtseize due to 1) Budget reasons and 2) Better against Zoo which we struggle against
4x Hymn to Tourach - Is this outdated? However, my meta is quite blue

Removal (7):
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Vindicate

Sideboard:
3x Perish (Zoo, GW Maverick)
1x Sword of Fire/Ice (Tribal)
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Planar Void
1x Warmth (Burn)
2x Engineered Plague (Tribal)
1x Cursed Totem (DnT)
1x Serenity (Enchantress)
1x Ethersworn Canonist (Storm)


I understand that this deck's weaker matchups are Zoo and G/W Maverick. Are the Perishes enough to shore up this matchup?

Furthermore, I have seen the move towards Vial lists with hatebears - is that a better direction than the more controllish style of my deck?

I hate to burst your bubble, but I just switched from Bitterblossom to Elspeth in my build. It's much better, especially after the banning of Misstep. I'd go -3 BB, +2 Elspeth. I'd also go -2 Liliana. Her removal effect is so-so, and her first ability is only good when you have some way to break the symmetry of the effect (like in Pox, where she seems like she'd be amazing).

Without Vial, I'm not huge on Tidehollow Sculler. He's neat, but honestly I think Mother of Runes and/or Phyrexian Revoker is far better (again, in a Vial-less build; he's probably better than Revoker in a Vial build).

I've also recently lost the third Stoneforge target and put it in the SB. I have yet to come up against a situation where I regret it. For your build, I'd much rather topdeck a fourth Vindicate than the third sword in the Stoneforge package, and the situations where you're running for a situational sword like SoF&I or SoB&M first or even second, or are putting down a third Stoneforge Mystic, just don't come up that often.

Hymn is definitely not outdated. It's still probably the best 2-for-1 in Legacy. Auto 4-of in Deadguy.

Perish is amazing and is a definite 3+ in the Sideboard. It, along with Engineered Plague, really helps against Zoo (so does Mother of Runes). However, I disagree that Maverick is a bad matchup. It's about 50/50. But, like you, I do't run the Vial build, and prefer the controllish side of Deadguy. It works very well against midrange decks like Maverick.

[Einherjer]

Ill show you my list, which Ive won 3 locals in a row

4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamps
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Plains

4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jotun Grunt

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 SoBaM
1 SoLaS
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Bitterblossom

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

Sideboard is something like:
4 Extirpate
3 Perish
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
2 Path to Exile
2 Thorn of Amethyst

Im pretty confident about EVERY choice in this deck.

Things you might NOT like:
4 Equips: I really like having enough equipments in long battles of attrition vs Maverick, Stoneblade and stuff. You do tutor up the right one via SFM and find any via the library - which is better than it sounds.

Vampire NIghthawk: He has been such a powerhouse - 4 lifeswing is good - even in Legacy. Hes the best blocker - even better than tarmogoyf

Jotun Grunt: Mainboard dredgehate + its recycling your stuff in your graveyard

3 Tops: Some would say 2 are enough, some would say we dont need them. I can just tell you its pretty impossible for me to play without them + without Vial/Mox. Id suggest 2-3


Greetings

[Qweerios]

@Phillipp802

Solid classic Deadguy list! Here is how I suggest you should improve it:

Jotun Grunt isn't a very good card by itself and fades away really fast. I suggest you try a couple of Tombstalkers instead. Since you play 3 Tops, there are no reasons to be afraid of him. Besides, with 4 VNH, Batterskull, SoLS, and Jitte, you have a lot of life gain to make up for any of the life loss already in your deck.

Speaking of swords, SoFI is much better than SoBM. I value pro red over green when all your creatures are within Bolt/Grim range. Pro white is superior to green any day of the week so I don't see the need to fetch SoBM over SoLS. Green only really offers relevant protection against Goyf and Terravore while white offers protection from StP, PtE, Crusader, and Vindicate. Not to mention that I wouldn't want to connect with a SoBM against a Terravore and that SoLS also offers protection from common black removal. In short, SoLS > SoBM vs. Aggro and SoFI > SoBM vs. Control and Small Aggro (Merfolk, Mav, Goblins, Deadguy, etc...)

Also, don't you get mana/color screwed often with only 20 lands? With 4 Wastelands I would lean towards 21-22 lands.

[from Cairo]

Jotun Grunt fades, but it has application against just about every deck in the established/tier 1-1.5 metagame. Dredge guys, Life from the Loam, Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Grim Lavamancer, Snapcaster Mage, Tombstalker. Versus Tribal it often persuades them not to swing for the turn it comes into play, and then clocks in for 4 or eats a chump.

2x seems like an alright count. You don't always want to see multiples and it's better in the midgame than turn 2.

I don't think it can be counted on as a 'go the distance' win condition like SFM -> Batterskull or Tarmogoyf or w/e, but it's a solid piece of tech that is generally disruptive for a few turns. Sometimes it gets some damage through, sometimes serves as an abyss-esque effect against swarm agro, or eats a removal spell. For a 2 mana investment I'm generally pretty pleased with it's output.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Speaking of swords, SoFI is much better than SoBM. I value pro red over green when all your creatures are within Bolt/Grim range. Pro white is superior to green any day of the week so I don't see the need to fetch SoBM over SoLS. Green only really offers relevant protection against Goyf and Terravore while white offers protection from StP, PtE, Crusader, and Vindicate. Not to mention that I wouldn't want to connect with a SoBM against a Terravore and that SoLS also offers protection from common black removal. In short, SoLS > SoBM vs. Aggro and SoFI > SoBM vs. Control and Small Aggro (Merfolk, Mav, Goblins, Deadguy, etc...)


Because nobody plays Knight of the Reliquary and Tarmogoyf isn't really a threat anyway... I think that unless your meta is full of RUG decks SoBM is indeed better than SoFI. Anything with a sword on it is already out of Lavamancer range, so you can't use that argument, and if it has >1 toughness it's out of bolt range too. I'm also far more concerned with staying alive against green fatties than I am with black removal in general. SoBM lets you swing past an army of Goyfs/KotR/Clique/Merfolk/Elves and gives you a blocker to replace the tapped guy. SoLS requires you to have a dude in your yard and mana open to cast him again, and nothing better to do with that mana. Obviously SoFI is better against Goblins but that's one 2%of the field on any given day versus 80%

[from Cairo]

Sword of Fire and Ice serves a different function than the other 3 playable Swords imo. SoF&I is played first for it's triggers and the protections are the tacked on bonus, where the other swords are played more for their protections with their triggers being a tacked on bonus.

I think Stoneforge packages really want a go-to for the Jace-based control and slower/disrupted combo match ups. Sword of Fire and Ice provides the reliably fastest clock while drawing into more fuel to stay ahead. It splash buffing the Merfolk and Goblins match ups isn't too bad either.

Obviously Jitte is auto include.

I think cases can be made for SoB&M, SoF&F, SoL&S and Batterskull depending on one's list and expected meta.

SoB&M and Batterskull help in lists with less creatures, since they each provide more. And I would agree with Tim the Enchanter that versus Knight of the Reliquary SoB&M is probably the strongest. If your list doesn't have much evasion this sword is appealing because it makes one's bears able to get in for 4 through walls of Goyfs and Folk.

SoF&F is good against BUG getting around their removal and dodging Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker. It plays well with more creature heavy lists, since you can swing through, untap and reequip to a blocker, and if one's deck has land tricks (Maze of Ith, Rishadan Port) or a higher curve it's aides some to that too.

SoL&S is good against Zoo putting all your guys out of Bolt range and pro-PTE, being able to get guys back from the 'yard can be good for attrition battles, probably more so than most of the other triggers. I think the pro-White is the big sell point here.

Most Stoneforge Mystic lists I run tend to have Mother of Runes, so Swords To Plowshares/Path To Exile are already mitigated to some degree and SoL&S makes my equipment wearer unable to gain Mom protections. For these reasons I tend to not be too fond of the sword, if one didn't run Mother of Runes I could see their pov being understandably different.

[Rizso]

If you really wants a sword against zoo the sword of war and peace is alot stronger then solas. Pretty much only need 1 guy with that sword equiped to go in to unlosable mode.

TBH the creatures I fear the most atm is KotR and Thrun. Thought if you dont have any mavericks in your meta this might not be a problem.

I use only sobam as my sword equipment. SOBAM is the only sword that increases your board position without any more mana useage and makes you able to attack and still have creatures back to block. 5 Connections at most is needed, anymore and their deck is gone already.

Only reason atm I would consider SOFaI would be if goblins and merfolk where everywhere or if playing with Serra Avengers.


As of right now I use a couple of maindecked Relic of Progenitus. For the simple reasons to counter Megaman (snapcaster), dredge, reanimate and to blow out kotr and tarmogoyfs.

[dal9ll]

I definitely agree that choice of Swords becomes a meta call. Jitte should be an auto-include. Batterskull I'm not a HUGE fan of in this deck, mostly because of its high cost.

What are everyone's thoughts on running a playset of Chrome Mox in this deck? A turn 1 Bob, SFM, Hymn, Tidehollow, or Sinkhole all seem pretty devastating!

[Leto]

Ten, maybe 15 Pages back in this thread are all pros and cons for chrome mox listed.

I played 3 a period but dropped them cos they are dead cards later and often you don't want to play a 2drop turn one, but play discard, so you won't get the full value. Plus its CDA

[Rizso]

Was gonna try out some new cards today... but I lost first matchup against tempotresh after 2x mul 1 fetch hands vs stifle decks, bad start. And draw the sucky neccesary evil singleton Plain. Was expecting alot more snapcaster and maverick but instead I get paired with combo elves, bant-blade/GSZ deck and countertop-stoneblade deck. 3 Hours before tournament I removed my Ethersworn Canonists from my board wich sucked they would be great against that elf deck :P

Cards I was planning to try out more further was Maindecked Bitterblossom Mortarpod, Blade Splicer without moxes / Vials. But didnt really get to test much of it sadly.

Mortarpod kills:
Grim Lavamancer
Snapcaster
Bob
Noble
Mom
Delver
Hoses Dredge
with more!

Theory behind Blade Splicer. With snapcaster in the format before board UWx decks got 4 swords and 4 snapcaster and after board they have up to 4 extra paths. Or the tempo decks got 4 bolts and 4 snap before board. This imo makes it pretty much impossible to play with Mirran Crusader without mother of runes and Counters. As well as 1WW mana cost is bad with Stifle waste of tempotresh is back. Blade Splicer is a solid 2 for 1 board presence when every body can carry a sword or jitte to victory. As well as it can be sacrificed to Cabal Therapy and still have a 3/3 creature left. The golem is large enought to trade with nimble mongooses or even win against it when the splicer is in play. Splicer theory is about the same as Joe Bernal's bw deck where he had 3 Spectral Processions. Thought that card having 6cc is to harsh drawback with bob imo. Much props to him for sticking to the archtype and develope it in a scg blue metagame.

Lessons learned from today:
*Relearn to play against naked Counterbalance :(
Played Bitterblossom against a naked Counterbalance while having a Gatekeeper in hand I could play the same turn to check if there was a 2cc ontop. lololol shot myself the foot. Im blaming the lack of sleep "cough" or something :P

*Add 1 more land to the deck, just not fetchlands. Probly a Ghostquarters RUG mana is very greedy. If not just an other Swamp.

*Hymn to Tourach can still steal games from nowhere!

*Anti-graveyard cards in Relic and Surgical Extractions are really strong atm, Specially against thoes pesky rug decks.

[Narluin]

I run this list in a small tournament, 4 round swiss:

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
3 Mirran Crusader

4 Inqusition of Kozilek
3 Hymn to tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

3 Bitterblossom

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of fire and ice
1 Batterskull

2 Liliana of the veil
2 Elspeth, knight errant

4 scrubland
1 Godhollow shrine
2 plains
2 swamp
3 wasteland
4 marsh flats
3 verdant catacombs
2 arid mesa

Had a sideboard with enlightened tutor toolbox.

I had not anticipated any burn decks, of course I ran in to two of them. Lost both (2-0, 2-1). Lost vs u/w snapcaster/stoneforge (2-1). Got a bye so no last game.

Overall I missed the last hymn against RDW and a warmth in sideboard... When I opposed the UW player I knew I needed to land a Bitterblossom to win. Got there with the tutorpackage secondgame when tutoring into the bitterblossom and slaming it turn two when he had only plains in play. Third game I managed to get it into play quite early about turn 4 but it wasnt enough. He just beat me down with a batterskull and SoFaF when my Vindicate had gone bad to a FoW.

Changes I will probably make is +1 hymn -1 Liliana. She was worthless in these games, but is great in other games. Hymn is better overall...

[conley1000000]

Looking forward to GP Indy in march, i'm trying to evolve my deck for the current meta. Try'd to make it aggresive enough to deal with RUG, but still be able to beat the combo/control decks...Been lulling over the Vial version or mox/bitterblossom version...I went with vial and here is the deck i'm starting to test...
2 Jötun Grunt
4 Dark Confidant
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Serra Avenger
3 Mother of Runes
1 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
2 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
1 Fetid Heath
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Planar Void
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Tidehollow Sculler

[Rizso]

I would say 18 creatures are to low for a Vial version. Phyrexian Revoker and Tidehollow are both strong in the vial versions.

Myself im considering exploring more of the token rout like Joe Bernal's list or a more planeswalker based version with couple of more lands.

[conley1000000]

I would say 18 creatures are to low for a Vial version. Phyrexian Revoker and Tidehollow are both strong in the vial versions.

Myself im considering exploring more of the token rout like Joe Bernal's list or a more planeswalker based version with couple of more lands.

I had Revoker and sculler in my old list, but with all the bolts running around its hard to keep your beater alive with mom, and keep one of those two alive. Versions I've run before have only had at most 21 creatures.

[Narluin]

I had Revoker and sculler in my old list, but with all the bolts running around its hard to keep your beater alive with mom, and keep one of those two alive. Versions I've run before have only had at most 21 creatures.

This is why you play the token list :P You get a lot of creatures at a low cost that says "do u have sweeper?" when u play it..

[KobeBryan]

What do you guys think about Kor Skyfisher It allows for some bouncing, turn 3 acceleration, a flyer, and some tidehollow sculler shenanigans like what Death and Taxes does with Flickerwisp. Resets Jotun Grunts counters, and reuses stoneforge if needed. Theoretically you can bounce your lands if they try to wasteland them via vial.

[conley1000000]

This is why you play the token list :P You get a lot of creatures at a low cost that says "do u have sweeper?" when u play it..

yeah, thats the other version i was thinking of. I like that version too, but just not sure of the build. I didnt like Bernals last list with spectral procession, but i like the idea. I just dont like the negative sides of it with the mox version with losing a card, and the life loss with bob, and bitterblossom. I do like the mox versions ability to t2 3 drops, which Aven mindcensor is onet that i'd like to try. Great tempo

[Rizso]

Gonna try out a token list with Bitterblossom, Elspeth, bladesplicer as maindecked token generator and Timely Reinforcements in the board as extra token generator. Not tried out Timely in Legacy yet. But played it very much in standard where the card pretty much killed of red aggro/burn strategies.

[conley1000000]

Anyone tested a singleton horizon canopy in place of a plains for a random draw effect. I've seen it in some other bw decks

[Rizso]

Also seen that singleton canopy but unless playing more white cards in the deck I dont like the white mana only on turn 1. But like where it increases the land count while still able to replace it self.

I do have a couple of plans I want to try out in a token heavy deck. But not ready to share yet :P

I do plan to try out Joe's list with Spectral Proccession, after all spectral is one of the cheapest 3 for 1 spells in the game.

[Rizso]

I must say I have quite pleased with both Bladesplicers and Spectra Proccession. I do see why Joe tried out Spectrals. Was pretty sceptical about them at start. But 3 Guys for 3 mana in world of so many 1 touchness creatures as well as pretty much only pinpoint removal is played. When combined with Cabal Therapy they are a beast.

The Chrome Moxes does makes his version alot better.

[TsumiBand]

I must say I have quite pleased with both Bladesplicers and Spectra Proccession. I do see why Joe tried out Spectrals. Was pretty sceptical about them at start. But 3 Guys for 3 mana in world of so many 1 touchness creatures as well as pretty much only pinpoint removal is played. When combined with Cabal Therapy they are a beast.

The Chrome Moxes does makes his version alot better.

I'm uber tempted to try this now. I suggested Spectral Procession over Vampire Nighthawk a billion pages ago but never did try it out... I don't think I even considered its synergy with Cabal Therapy.

Also @ Chrome Mox - I have always played two and I find that to be exactly right. I also rock Ancient Tombs though, because secretly I wish I was playing Angel Stompy. Meh :/

[Kring]

So im building this deck. With 3 things in mind
1- Disruption in form of discard: Thoughtseize/inquisition, Hymn to tourach, And tidehollow sculler
2- Aether vial and creatures to back it up. In this blue meta, i think its very good.
3- Mystic, and equipments


4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures [19]
4 AEther Vial
1 Batterskull
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
Spells [19]
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
4 Scrubland
7 Swamp
4 Wasteland
Lands [22]
SIDEBOARD
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Extirpate
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Perish
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate

I have some issues with the land base: To cast hymn to tourach on turn 2, 20 lands with wasteland were really few. I added more lands because of it. Should i forget the wastelands, drop the mana back to 20/21 and get another creature?

Edit: Just got remembered that if i can get more fetches, my problem is solved

[slikwilly]

So im building this deck. With 3 things in mind
1- Disruption in form of discard: Thoughtseize/inquisition, Hymn to tourach, And tidehollow sculler
2- Aether vial and creatures to back it up. In this blue meta, i think its very good.
3- Mystic, and equipments


I ran something similar the other day. Not many players at the shop this weekend though so my 3-0 result isn't very significant. (SCG St. Louis was nearby, lots of regulars went to that instead.)

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Enlightened Tutor

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
3 Tidehollow Sculler

2 Bitterblossom

4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull

2 Wasteland
3 Plains
4 Scrubland
4 Marshflats
9 Swamp

Beat RUG Delver 2-0, Fish 2-1, and Merfolk 2-1. I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm swapping Surgical Extraction for a couple Ethersworn Canonist. The idea was to deal with Snapcasters, and I generally have been able to have a vial up at 2. Vialing in a Canonist shuts down the Snapcaster and nets a body in the process. Hoping to play tomorrow to find out how well that works out.

[Einherjer]

Just so you see that there are other DGA-Versions that actually are good,
my list:

//lands
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Fetid Heath
1 Plains

//creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jotun Grunt

//artefacts/enchantments
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 SoBaM
1 SoLaS
3 Bitterblossom
3 Senseis Divining Top

//removal/discard
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate



I dont run a vial and still crush all the Stoneblade decks... So i really dont think Vial is a necessity...


Greetings

[Kring]

necessity? i dont think so. I do think that vial is just a option and the lists that don´t have it, just have the DGA mandadory cards (imo) in 4'ofs (hymn, vindicate), and the lists who run vial, have them on 3ofs/2ofs, and some in the sideboard if the meta requires it.

My opinion? It doesnt change one bit, running vial or not, its just a choice. Although it does develop the board position more, and i like the tidehollow sculler tricks with it!

Im running this list:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures [21]
4 AEther Vial
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
Spells [20]
2 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Lands [21]
SIDEBOARD
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Extirpate
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Perish
1 Vindicate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Relic of Progenitus
Sideboard [15]

[Rizso]

My thought on tokenlist, gonna try a heavy discard version with Thougthseize, Inquision, Cabal therapy and Hymn. Low removal count, no vindicate. Board then really heavy with removal and gy hate.