[Developing] Esper/4 Color Wizards/Human based aggro-control

[mini1337s]

It seems as if Wizards/Humans is poised to develop into an established deck. You can play 8 effects that generate uncounterability while fixing mana in the form of Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial. Both are different, but play similar roles in allowing the deck to easily cast creatures at varying speeds.

For playable cards you have (and this is by no means a definitive list):

Human Based Wizards:
Dark Confidant (Human Wizard)
Meddling Mage (Human Wizard)
Shadowmage Infiltrator (Human Wizard)
Snapcaster Mage (Human Wizard)
Sylvan Safekeeper (Human Wizard)
Trinket Mage (Human Wizard)
Voidmage Prodigy (Human Wizard)

Other notable Wizards:
Vendilion Clique (Faerie Wizard)
Aven Mindcensor (Bird Wizard)
Qasali Pridemage (Cat Wizard)

Other notable Humans:
Ethersworn Canonist (Human Cleric)
Mirran Crusador (Human Knight)
Fiend Hunter (Human Cleric)
Weathered Wayfarer (Human Nomad Cleric)
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (Human Soldier)
Mother of Runes (Human Cleric)
Notion Thief (Human Rogue)



I've been toying around with the following idea as a potential deck:

4x Dark Confidant (Card Advantage)
4x Mother of Runes (Protection versus spot removal, in particular Abrupt Decay)
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (Slows down combo and control gameplans)
4x Weathered Wayfarer (Pseudo-KotR. Fetches Wastelands and Cavern of Souls)
4x Meddling Mage (Cast on cards that 2-3 for 1 the deck, like WoG, Terminus, etc. Can be a maindeck combo piece answer)
3x Vendilion Clique (Flashes in without Aether Vial. Duress effect attached to a strong clock)
1x Qasali Pridemage (Artifact removal, exalted bonus for small creatures)

4x Aether Vial (Uncounterable creatures with flash? Sounds like a plan)
2x Umezawa's Jitte (Very versatile removal, protection, lifegain).

1x Zealous Persecution (Gotcha card, helps fix clogged boards)

4x Spell Pierce/Discard spell (I think this deck wants to be reactive, but this slot is flexible)
4x Swords to Plowshares (auto include)

4x Cavern of Souls
4x Wasteland
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
1x Marsh Flats
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Underground Sea
3x Tundra
1x Scrubland


Sideboard cards:
Meekstone
Retribution of the Meek
Notion Thief
Trinket Mage + Pithing Needle/Relic of Progenitus/Nihil Spellbomb/Engineered Explosives
Voidmage Prodigy
Fiend Hunter


Looking for suggestions to make this into a legitimate deck. It might not be tier 1, but it seems like a great metagame attack deck, especially in a metagame with a lot of Control and Combo.

[HPB_Eggo]

Vedalken Aethermage is probably worth a look here, as you can then run some toolbox wizards, and Aether Vial helps fix the problem of paying three to fetch them.

From there you can start looking around at some very powerful one-of wizards, probably among the strongest being Glen Elendra, Patron Wizard, and Venser.

[(nameless one)]

Notion Thief is a human that has a hefty effect.

Pair it up with Standstill and AEther Vial.

Standstill will never be against you. If you have an active Vial before you slap in Standstill, that's a good position for you. Unlike Merfolk, you can resolve a Standstill with on a losing board, slap in Notion Thief and boom! Threat that shuts down Brainstorm + three cards!

[Greenpoe]

Unlike Merfolk, you can resolve a Standstill with on a losing board, slap in Notion Thief and boom! Threat that shuts down Brainstorm + three cards!

Wouldn't you still need Vial out to do this play? If you have Standstill out with Norton Thief still in your hand, and you cast Norton Thief, then Standstill's trigger would resolve first and they would draw the cards. You'd need to have it already out on the field when you play Vial.

[Remy]

Looking for suggestions to make this into a legitimate deck. It might not be tier 1, but it seems like a great metagame attack deck, especially in a metagame with a lot of Control and Combo.

Very interesting concept, I've been all about the 'rogue' ideas lately myself. First question that comes to mind however is; Why don't you play any riptide laboratories? Defense against spot removal, fits in your colors, and it can be used to replay Meddling Mages if you named a bad card (say they sided out something you didn't think they would) you can bounce and replay him (at instant speed if you have an active Vial) and potentially even turn him into a hardlock, constantly bouncing and switching based on what the opponent is trying to do.

[thecrav]

I think this is a really interesting idea, but what's the big finish? It seems like most of the stuff you're going to be playing are two and three power, which isn't a whole lot.

[mini1337s]

I think this is a really interesting idea, but what's the big finish? It seems like most of the stuff you're going to be playing are two and three power, which isn't a whole lot.
It's built on the premise of Vintage Wizards which locks you out of the game and beats you down with 2/2s. There is potentially room for more equipment or planeswalkers like Elspeth, but the original list has been doing alright on cockatrice testing.
Essentially you crush Control and Combo, but have trouble with fair strategies. A deck like Junk is the worst matchup.

[(nameless one)]

Wouldn't you still need Vial out to do this play? If you have Standstill out with Norton Thief still in your hand, and you cast Norton Thief, then Standstill's trigger would resolve first and they would draw the cards. You'd need to have it already out on the field when you play Vial.

LOL you're right.

I must be stoned when I typed that.

[Wincheee]

One friend allways play a fucking annoying monoblue wizards with something like
4 Patron wizard
4Cursecstcher
4 martyr of frost
4 voidmage prodigy
Some guys with wizardcycling
1 Sower, 1 Venser, shackless, fow, etc...

[thecrav]

I missed it on the first read through, but I love the idea of 3-4 maindeck Meddling Mages - oops, I accidentally your deck!

Would Riptide Laboratory or Karakas be worth throwing in? Uses:

Thalia - if we need several things out fast, we can save some mana
Vendillion Clique - these shenanigans are already well documented
Confidant - If we're getting low on life, we can save ourselves

Additionally, declaring blocks then returning to hand can effectively Maze of Ith one of their creatures.

[guybrush3]

It's built on the premise of Vintage Wizards which locks you out of the game and beats you down with 2/2s. There is potentially room for more equipment or planeswalkers like Elspeth, but the original list has been doing alright on cockatrice testing.
Essentially you crush Control and Combo, but have trouble with fair strategies. A deck like Junk is the worst matchup.

is there a way to PM me with a wetransfer cockatrice cuz i cant download it please? it will be nice.
Thumbps up for this deck-idea

[Wincheee]

One friend allways play a fucking annoying monoblue wizards with something like
4 Patron wizard
4Cursecstcher
4 martyr of frost
4 voidmage prodigy
Some guys with wizardcycling
1 Sower, 1 Venser, shackless, fow, etc...

[mini1337s]

Tested some more today and was matched up with a few interesting decks. Did surprisingly well versus Merfolk, as I could forgo fetching Islands most of the time. Testing Fiend Hunter in the side, and it completely changed combat by exiling lords.
Played versus UW Miracles, felt like I was in the driver's seat the entire time. On the play with a Cavern, they can't come back. T1 Mom, T2 Thalia, T3 Meddling Mage on Terminus... GG.

Also, the best part of this deck is that it's just like invitationalcards.dec . Meddling Mage, Bob, Voidmage Prodigy... the potential to run Sylvan Safekeeper, Snapcaster Mage, Shadowmage Infiltrator lol...

[GoboLord]

I havn't tested the deck yet, but wouldn't Shardless Agent be worth a try? I know, you have to hardcast him, but then again, in such a creature-dense deck you are likely to actually reveal another 2/2 beater. Unfortunately this deck has some number of cards that you better don't want to reveal (like Thalia#2, Spell Pierce, Aether Vial).
Just being curious what people have to say about him.

[mini1337s]

I havn't tested the deck yet, but wouldn't Shardless Agent be worth a try? I know, you have to hardcast him, but then again, in such a creature-dense deck you are likely to actually reveal another 2/2 beater. Unfortunately this deck has some number of cards that you better don't want to reveal (like Thalia#2, Spell Pierce, Aether Vial).
Just being curious what people have to say about him.
Generally, you want to flash in creatures with Vial (if possible), to maximize the amount of information you have before making a play. You hit the nail on the head; Shardless Agent into a Thalia, Pierce, etc, just leaves you with a 2/2 for 3. I could see it having application, but only versus decks with Wrath effects.

Has anyone else tried this out in any capacity? I've been pretty happy with my testing, and haven't had as much issue versus the fair creatures decks as I thought I would.

EDIT:
Current List
4x Dark Confidant
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Weathered Wayfarer
4x Meddling Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
1x Qasali Pridemage

4x Aether Vial
2x Umezawa's Jitte

4x Spell Pierce
4x Swords to Plowshares

4x Cavern of Souls
3x Wasteland
1x Riptide Laboratory
3x Flooded Strand
2x Marsh Flats
1x Polluted Delta
1x Island
1x Plains
3x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Scrubland

SIDEBOARD:
3x Fiend Hunter
2x Rest in Peace
2x Retribution of the Meek
2x Mirran Crusader
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Trinket Mage
1x Meekstone
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Relic of Progentitus

[bob2008]

Hi sourcerers,
I like the idea of the deck...
How about Brainstorm instead of Pierce?
Another idea is to run at least 2 Aven Mindcensor MD (cut a Quasali ans X ???) to support the mana denial plan?

regards,

bob

[Qweerios]

What are the advantages of having "Wizard" as a tribal deck aside from Cavern of Souls? It seems to me like Cavern increases the color spread for creatures but also limits the use of colored spells or abilities like Voidmage Prodigy's ability and Daze (Which I think is strictly superior to Spell Pierce in a Vial deck).

Why Vial at all? The collection of wizard creatures is best coupled with cheap spells and removal rather than by using a card to get them out faster.

Is black really necessary for Bob? If Vial is the way to go, perhaps Standstill is a better plan.

Grim Lavamancer is another wizard worth looking into as well. Probably the best 1drop out there.

Aven Mimeomancer makes a Delver every turn.

Trinket Mage into Meekstone sounds like a strong line of play for a fish deck.

I think there are 2 approaches to take with this deck:

a) The Vial route that would work best with a lot of creatures, some form of heavy card advantage (Standstill/Bob), and a tutor package with Vedalken Aethermage.

b) The midrange route that would focus on combining efficient spells with inherently good wizards such as Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Trinket Mage, Grim Lavamancer, and use cards like Patron Wizard or Voidmage Prodigy to take advantage of the tribal part of the deck.

I believe option "a" is a watered down version of Merfolk, and that option "b" has more potential but requires the deck to be very blue heavy and limit the splash to 1-2 colors. As far as good maindeck wizards go, white doesn't offer very many, green is a bit of a stretch, and black only offers Dark Confidant.

Here are some notable synergy:

Grim Lavamancer + Trinket Mage into Basilisk Collar
Riptide Laboratory + Vendilion Clique/Spellstutter Sprite
Trinket Mage into Meekstone with Fire // Ice
Patron Wizards + Spellstutter Sprite/Snapcaster Mage/Vendilion Clique

[mini1337s]

What are the advantages of having "Wizard" as a tribal deck aside from Cavern of Souls? It seems to me like Cavern increases the color spread for creatures but also limits the use of colored spells or abilities like Voidmage Prodigy's ability and Daze (Which I think is strictly superior to Spell Pierce in a Vial deck).

Why Vial at all? The collection of wizard creatures is best coupled with cheap spells and removal rather than by using a card to get them out faster
The list I've currently been testing has forgone Voidmage and Daze, and I've had okay results at this point in testing. I really like that Spell Pierce can also act as a pseudo-Mana Leak with Thalia out which, coupled with Wasteland and Weathered Wayfarer, can be back-breaking versus U/x control.
The inclusion of Vial was to allow the deck to "cast" each creature as an uncounterable spell when you had the most amount of information available. Combat tricks, free mana, etc have been worthwhile so far, but I would love to see alternate vial-less lists.


Is black really necessary for Bob? If Vial is the way to go, perhaps Standstill is a better plan.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Lo9wZsPUiU0/UN6Uc84lyLI/AAAAAAAADgU/Ieq0YTNS334/s1600/why-not-both.jpg

4x Dark Confidant
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Grim Lavamancer
3x Trinket Mage
2x Vendilion Clique

3x Standstill
3x Counterbalance

4x Aether Vial
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Engineered Explosives

3x Spell Pierce
1x Counterspell
4x Lightning Bolt

4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Tundra
3x Island
4x Cavern of Souls
1x Riptide Laboratory



SIDEBOARD:
3x Red Elemental Blast
2x Mindbreak Trap
2x Divert
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Meekstone
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Izzet Staticaster
3x Meddling Mage

[Qweerios]

I made a little version of this deck that I tried on cockatrice, it's not half bad.


Creatures (18)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Patron Wizard

Spells (22)
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay

2 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island

Sideboard (15)
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Disfigure
2 Thoughtseize
2 Deathmark
2 Engineered Plague

[zulander]

I'm confused as to why you wouldn't play the best human wizard (http://magiccards.info/query?q=grim+lavamancer&v=card&s=cname) in legacy right now.