Time to quit Magic?

[Humphrey]

With the actual announcement of predator slivers I really asked myself. Is this still the game I enjoyed over the last 17 years? Actually I dont remember anything "cool" WotC pulled of. Instead my head is full of stupid changes Maro and his company executed.

It all starts with the border change, but then

-mythics
-planeswalker
-planeswalker points
-no player rewards
-tighten the reserved list
-wasted ftv boxes
-uninspired editions
-powercreep
-boring designs
-blue Snapcaster/Delver/Everything
-LaPille
-Maro

Seriously. What was the last awesome thing about wotc/magic you remember?

(Yep its whine, but maybe Im just getting to old for this game)

[walker]

Yeah quit.

[socialite]

It's a core set, this is essentially bitching about a new Tonka Truck line while owning a collection of actual monster trucks.

[Lt. Quattro]

Wait until from the vaults 20 is spoiled.

[Mr.C]

I've pretty much quit. I'll come back if/when Underground Seas and Legacy staples are at a reasonable price again.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Seriously. What was the last awesome thing about wotc/magic you remember?

Snapcaster Mage. Holy fuck is that guy fun.

[Humphrey]

Snapcaster Mage. Holy fuck is that guy fun.

When i hear Snapcaster, my association is: What the fuck, why isnt this guy red.

But thanks for mentioning...

[beastman]

What the hell is a predator sliver?

[(nameless one)]

What the hell is a predator sliver?

Slivers that look more like people and not slivers.

[Lemnear]

Slivers that look more like an Alien vs. Predator parody and not slivers.

Fixed

[baghdadbob]

I own one real deck i.r.l. but play a bunch of decks online on the free websites that still exist. I refuse to actually invest money into another legacy deck, but will spend money on singletons to keep my deck up to date. I refuse to give money to Hasbro particularly through mtgo, they are a bunch of money grubbing scam artists. 120$ for a slightly played Jace? You gotta be kidding me. You have to be able to separate the idea of a piece of cardboard from something that will pay the rent. I have given the company thousands and thousands of dollars in the past and that is enough. That should be enough money for an entire lifetime of entertainment. If Hasbro gets rid of all the free magic sites then I WILL sell my deck and quit completely. I can't imagine what kind of moron invests money in an online deck (sorry guys) the abstraction is just too much for me to comprehend. In my opinion Hasbro is an evil corporation that has seemingly stopped caring about appearances in exchange for every last penny they can get from every gamers pocket. Fuck em'. I hope someone from the company is reading this. If you want my respect back then you have to drop your lawsuits with people like Cockatrice, get rid of the reserved list, reprint duals and p9, BRING BACK PLAYER REWARDS IN A BIG WAY, and start investing into ALL formats. With little to none of your massive amounts of money you could reinvigorate and reinveste in the future of the company. STOP TRYING TO GRAB EVERY LAST DIME AND MAKE YOUR COMPANY SOMETHING WORTH PURCHASING!!!

Also o.p. I wouldn't blame you for quitting, because I don't think any of this shit will change.

[danyul]

Uh. Ok.

First of all, buying a Jace, at any price, wouldn't affect Hasbro one bit. They already made their money off of those Worldwake packs. You are just giving money to some dealer or shop or something when you buy a Jace. Preferably a shop since they provide places to play and keep the game growing and all that.

Second of all, Hasbro or WOTC or whichever entity you are raging at, would never do one, let alone all, of the crazy things you mentioned. They are getting by just fine without having to bend over backwards to please some fringe playerbase demanding not X, not Y, not Z, but the whole goddamn alphabet.

And thirdly, people play Magic Online because that's where the players are. If you like to play sealed and standard and all that shiz, MODO is a godsend. You can always get a game or draft going and, assuming you play often enough, I've been told that gathering up a set to redeem - into real cards - isn't some traumatic event.

It seems like some of you A) actively hate Magic, and B) don't feel like spending any money on this collectible (read: sometimes expensive) game.

You are Legacy players. You are the yacht-piloting, blinged-out, elite echelon of Magical card slingers. That comes with a clear cost. This is the most expensive *real* format (Vintage isn't a thing anymore, right?). If you want to play something cheaper, go try Standard. Or Pokemon. Or YuGiOh. Those will still cost you money though. Will you complain about those too?

Or you could just build a budget deck and enjoy the game for what it is. I have seen plenty of players like that and they seem to have a grand ol' time. And guess what? They have fun RIGHT ALONGSIDE all the players rocking Underground Seas and Jaces and whatnot.

Jesus where is this coming from? Why am I still typing? I don't actually care if you quit. Sell your duals and let somebody who actually likes Magic pick them up and PLAY A GAME with them.

[baghdadbob]

You are probably right about the dealer and the limited/draft part of your argument so I wont try to rebuttal that (cube draft i.m.o. is the only reason to own mtgo and even then it is still not good enough a reason). I do mostly play kitchen table stuff so I know where you are coming from. However there is no reason that magic cards should cost as much as they do and wizards could alleviate alot of the strife by reprinting cards that have no right to cost a thousand dollars. As far as hating magic your dead wrong there I just think it's bullshit to charge huge amounts of money for a piece of cardboard. And as far as selling my duals, I don't own 'em because I play mud. :wink:

P.S. The new sliver/humanoids are dumb sauce and Gatecrash is poop.

[danyul]

I hear you on that. I'm poor as shit. I understand. But those cards are expensive precisely because other people love this game too. They just love it a little more than you if we are measuring by the only metric that seems to matter in this game, or life, or whatever - money. You don't love Jace at the $120 dollar level. And that's perfectly okay. But Jace IS. And Jace will continue to BE, regardless of how much you love him. And Richy Rich across the way loves Jace at the $150 dollar level. And Jace is a fucking whore. Jace goes where the most money is. If anything, you should be mad at Richy Rich and Jace, because their mutual sluttishness has kept dearest Jace from your loving arms.

[baghdadbob]

lol Okay I feel you on that. Well played sir.

[Purgatory]

I hear you on that. I'm poor as shit. I understand. But those cards are expensive precisely because other people love this game too. They just love it a little more than you if we are measuring by the only metric that seems to matter in this game, or life, or whatever - money. You don't love Jace at the $120 dollar level. And that's perfectly okay. But Jace IS. And Jace will continue to BE, regardless of how much you love him. And Richy Rich across the way loves Jace at the $150 dollar level. And Jace is a fucking whore. Jace goes where the most money is. If anything, you should be mad at Richy Rich and Jace, because their mutual sluttishness has kept dearest Jace from your loving arms.

That was fantastic. Thanks a lot for the early morning laugh.

[Lt. Quattro]

Uh. Ok.

First of all, buying a Jace, at any price, wouldn't affect Hasbro one bit. They already made their money off of those Worldwake packs. You are just giving money to some dealer or shop or something when you buy a Jace. Preferably a shop since they provide places to play and keep the game growing and all that.

Second of all, Hasbro or WOTC or whichever entity you are raging at, would never do one, let alone all, of the crazy things you mentioned. They are getting by just fine without having to bend over backwards to please some fringe playerbase demanding not X, not Y, not Z, but the whole goddamn alphabet.

And thirdly, people play Magic Online because that's where the players are. If you like to play sealed and standard and all that shiz, MODO is a godsend. You can always get a game or draft going and, assuming you play often enough, I've been told that gathering up a set to redeem - into real cards - isn't some traumatic event.

It seems like some of you A) actively hate Magic, and B) don't feel like spending any money on this collectible (read: sometimes expensive) game.

You are Legacy players. You are the yacht-piloting, blinged-out, elite echelon of Magical card slingers. That comes with a clear cost. This is the most expensive *real* format (Vintage isn't a thing anymore, right?). If you want to play something cheaper, go try Standard. Or Pokemon. Or YuGiOh. Those will still cost you money though. Will you complain about those too?

Or you could just build a budget deck and enjoy the game for what it is. I have seen plenty of players like that and they seem to have a grand ol' time. And guess what? They have fun RIGHT ALONGSIDE all the players rocking Underground Seas and Jaces and whatnot.

Jesus where is this coming from? Why am I still typing? I don't actually care if you quit. Sell your duals and let somebody who actually likes Magic pick them up and PLAY A GAME with them.

I don't know about everyone here, but this describes me to a T.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/258/464/hqdefault_display_image.jpg?1338004896

[Lemnear]

I don't know about everyone here, but this describes me to a T.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/258/464/hqdefault_display_image.jpg?1338004896

Post of the day

So awesome that I consider this my new Avatar

[Hof]

With the actual announcement of predator slivers I really asked myself. Is this still the game I enjoyed over the last 17 years?
Yes and no. It is the same game, but different. I am inclined to agree that many changes have not been for the better. People change, too. I know I have changed. Moments like when I saw Force of Nature for the first time 100 years ago are not coming back. The thrill of opening a booster is certainly never coming back. Most of all that excitement is gone. It also has to do with growing up. Growing up and getting older sucks that way. Maybe some kid will crack open an M14 booster and be super excited about those new Slivers. Maybe they will keep the memory of that moment their whole life. I don't know. They are not Slivers to me. If Slivers become playable in Legacy, I will play them again. I love Slivers. That new vigilance Sliver seems strong. I have become cold and calculating. 99% of new cards are garbage. Cards designed for formats that I don't play and that are destined to rotate out to make way for new slightly different cards and keep the cash flowing into the company. What a ripoff. I don't want to be part of that.
So why do I keep playing? Because Magic is still the best strategy game that I know. I love Legacy format and I am addicted to deck building. Less than 1% of new cards have potential in Legacy. I wouldn't want it any other way. Time to quit Magic? If you enjoy Legacy half as much as I do, no why should you quit. It is a true Eternal format and largely unaffected by the influx of dumb, new cards. Don't worry about the new cards. Ask yourself if you enjoy the game.

[Esper3k]

You are probably right about the dealer and the limited/draft part of your argument so I wont try to rebuttal that (cube draft i.m.o. is the only reason to own mtgo and even then it is still not good enough a reason). I do mostly play kitchen table stuff so I know where you are coming from. However there is no reason that magic cards should cost as much as they do and wizards could alleviate alot of the strife by reprinting cards that have no right to cost a thousand dollars. As far as hating magic your dead wrong there I just think it's bullshit to charge huge amounts of money for a piece of cardboard. And as far as selling my duals, I don't own 'em because I play mud. :wink:

P.S. The new sliver/humanoids are dumb sauce and Gatecrash is poop.

Yeah you can't blame stores for selling cards at the prices they do. If people are willing to pay those prices, then it's bad business for stores NOT to sell at what they can get at.

[Humphrey]

Because Magic is still the best strategy game that I know. I love Legacy format and I am addicted to deck building. Less than 1% of new cards have potential in Legacy. I wouldn't want it any other way. Time to quit Magic? If you enjoy Legacy half as much as I do, no why should you quit. It is a true Eternal format and largely unaffected by the influx of dumb, new cards. Don't worry about the new cards. Ask yourself if you enjoy the game.

Well, this is another reason Im tired of Magic/Legacy. All the strategies have been explored. The format is kind of stale. Maybe Magic is still a good strategy game, but its more a gambling game. How many times you lost because yoe got paired against the rogue deck which canadian cant beat or how many times you lost to screw/flood or you only won because your topdeck turned the tides?

Im tired of magic and I feel anger about WotC. Maybe its time to quit and come back when Brainstorm is finally banned.

[Julian23]

It's puzzling you're first complaining about variance ("topdecked turned the tide") and follow it up with a bash on Brainstorm, the best variance-reducing card in the format.:frown: .

/edit: DAMNIT! Nothing to see here, move along. I once again fell for it. The Legacy equivalent of Godwin's Law.

[kiblast]

Well, this is another reason Im tired of Magic/Legacy. All the strategies have been explored. The format is kind of stale. Maybe Magic is still a good strategy game, but its more a gambling game. How many times you lost because yoe got paired against the rogue deck which canadian cant beat or how many times you lost to screw/flood or you only won because your topdeck turned the tides?

Im tired of magic and I feel anger about WotC. Maybe its time to quit and come back when Brainstorm is finally banned.

Well, let's say you have two different possible scenarios:

-One in which Rogue.decks don't exist, and the format is defined by Threshold VS Storm Combo VS Miracle Control VS BUG Aggrocontrol. The format becomes HIGHLY competitive, Sideboard and maindeck choices are the same in the 90% of the cases, let's say 70/75 cards are the same for every archetype with minor variations/tweaks to beat the mirrors. Only skill matters. The format evolves only when a new gamebreaking card gets printed ( Delver, Decay) this means the format is stale.

-One that offers great variety of decks, Rogue.decks exist even if they represent less than 20% of any meta. With slight adaptations this model represents legacy as we know it. 15 cards sideboards are not enough to cover every single bad matchup you have, and the format slightly shifts towards casual magic. The format is ever changing.

You say that legacy is more of a gambling game now. While I don't believe this statement is true, let's say that scenario 1 becomes effective, rogue matchups don't exist anymore. ---> Stale format, less luck involved.

Legacy stays as it is now, 2nd scenario. The format always changes, new adaptations of standard decks become viable, Legacy is a ''breathing'' entity in which the osmosis of strategies, combos and new cards among it and others formats is always present and active. Obviously this leads to--> Changing format, slightly more luck involved.

In which scenario would you prefer to play?

Legacy can't be stale and luck based at the same time. Thats some kind of oxymoron.

[Megadeus]

Well, this is another reason Im tired of Magic/Legacy. All the strategies have been explored. The format is kind of stale. Maybe Magic is still a good strategy game, but its more a gambling game. How many times you lost because yoe got paired against the rogue deck which canadian cant beat or how many times you lost to screw/flood or you only won because your topdeck turned the tides?

Im tired of magic and I feel anger about WotC. Maybe its time to quit and come back when Brainstorm is finally banned.

Gotta be trolling...

[JanoschEausH]

Yes and no. It is the same game, but different. I am inclined to agree that many changes have not been for the better. People change, too. I know I have changed. Moments like when I saw Force of Nature for the first time 100 years ago are not coming back. The thrill of opening a booster is certainly never coming back. Most of all that excitement is gone. It also has to do with growing up. Growing up and getting older sucks that way. Maybe some kid will crack open an M14 booster and be super excited about those new Slivers. Maybe they will keep the memory of that moment their whole life. I don't know. They are not Slivers to me. If Slivers become playable in Legacy, I will play them again. I love Slivers. That new vigilance Sliver seems strong. I have become cold and calculating. 99% of new cards are garbage. Cards designed for formats that I don't play and that are destined to rotate out to make way for new slightly different cards and keep the cash flowing into the company. What a ripoff. I don't want to be part of that.
So why do I keep playing? Because Magic is still the best strategy game that I know. I love Legacy format and I am addicted to deck building. Less than 1% of new cards have potential in Legacy. I wouldn't want it any other way. Time to quit Magic? If you enjoy Legacy half as much as I do, no why should you quit. It is a true Eternal format and largely unaffected by the influx of dumb, new cards. Don't worry about the new cards. Ask yourself if you enjoy the game.

I would recommend you try out GO. That's a hell of a strategic game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)

[joemauer]

Well, this is another reason Im tired of Magic/Legacy. All the strategies have been explored. The format is kind of stale. Maybe Magic is still a good strategy game, but its more a gambling game. How many times you lost because yoe got paired against the rogue deck which canadian cant beat or how many times you lost to screw/flood or you only won because your topdeck turned the tides?

Im tired of magic and I feel anger about WotC. Maybe its time to quit and come back when Brainstorm is finally banned.

I had no idea that this was supposed to be a ban Brainstorm thread.

[Lemnear]

I had no idea that this was supposed to be a ban Brainstorm thread.

"Ban Brainstorm!" is the M:TG-equivalent of Godwin's Law in Legacy Forums

[clavio]

I've been thinking about things like this recently. It's gotten to the point where the only thing that's enjoyable to me is winning, but I'm too busy to put in the time necessary to be really good. Also Cockatrice is gone.

I was very disappointed with the return block (but I really liked Innistrad). I don't know. It's weird because I've been playing so long, I can't see myself just quitting and never looking back. But I think it's getting close to that point.

[Esper3k]

I actually think the past two blocks have been real Eternal game-changers. Just look at the cards we got in these past two blocks:

Innistrad - Faithless Looting, Lingering Souls, Thalia, Griselbrand, Delver of Secrets, Sigarda, Cavern of Souls, Liliana of the Veil
Return to Ravnica - Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman, Rest in Peace, Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict

I'm sure there's more stuff I'm missing, but in the past two blocks we really got a bunch of Eternal gems.

[baghdadbob]

I actually think the past two blocks have been real Eternal game-changers. Just look at the cards we got in these past two blocks:

Innistrad - Faithless Looting, Lingering Souls, Thalia, Griselbrand, Delver of Secrets, Sigarda, Cavern of Souls, Liliana of the Veil
Return to Ravnica - Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman, Rest in Peace, Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict

I'm sure there's more stuff I'm missing, but in the past two blocks we really got a bunch of Eternal gems.

I agree with you completely. So what the fuck happened with Gatecrash? At least Alliances had Force of Will.

[Arsenal]

When it comes to "quitting" Magic, you should evaluate what drew you into Magic in the first place. Was it the social aspect? Was it the competitive aspect? Was it the financial aspect? Was it the collectible aspect? Maybe a combination? Basically, if you don't find yourself deriving any enjoyment from Magic on any level, then it's probably time you hang up your cards.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Maybe Magic is still a good strategy game, but its more a gambling game.

I feel like this is kind of a dark secret of magic.

As far as tournament results go, the strategy within a specific game of magic is secondary. The real meaningful strategy (imo) is in deck selection before going to a tournament and deck building for that specific event. Following that it's mostly about how you get paired.

I don't understand why you would want to play without Brainstorm though. That is one of the main things that makes luck a smaller factor in Legacy games. With such good filtering we have more games where both players can interact with each other and neither person gets mana screwed/flooded. A brainstorm ban would make me want to quit, not start playing more.


I agree with you completely. So what the fuck happened with Gatecrash? At least Alliances had Force of Will.

You can't expect every set to introduce a new legacy card. It would be horrible if every set had a Deathrite Shaman.

[menace13]

When it comes to "quitting" Magic, you should evaluate what drew you into Magic in the first place. Was it the social aspect? Was it the competitive aspect? Was it the financial aspect? Was it the collectible aspect? Maybe a combination?

It Was totally the bitches. Hot, semi-naked bitches, on a beach.

No, seriously. I have proof.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HztAWVUO1Zo

[PirateKing]

menace

God what a prefect future. Afterwards they all fly off in personal jetpacks. God I hate reality.

[Esper3k]

I agree with you completely. So what the fuck happened with Gatecrash? At least Alliances had Force of Will.

I think what happened to make Gatecrash and Dragon's Maze such disappointments for us is that RtR had all the goodies (and amazing ones they were) all in the first set, so we got spoiled and let down by it. If you look at RtR as a whole block, we still got a bunch of great stuff - it was all just up front.

So for me, I think it's actually a very cool time to be playing Legacy right now because we've been consistently getting big format shakers each block.

[Dan Turner]

Almost everyone quits at one time or another.

I play magic for the social interaction with my friends. Do I like to win, sure we all do but what I love more is seeing these people who refuse to net-deck and run rouge decks that just stomp the hell out of a local meta. To me net-decking is what will eventually kill legacy. Every one looks at a top 8 list and decides they have to play that instead of getting creative and look at their local meta and build a deck to beat that group. If Magic has lost the strategy for you it is most likely the fact that half that strategy is designing the proper deck.

[Phelix]

Im quitting.

ill come back when they ban blue.

and islands.

and you.





--- No seriously, why would wizards care? the game has never been more popular, and their product is going strong. So losing a supersmall percentage of durdlers seem worth it.

[Humphrey]

--- No seriously, why would wizards care? the game has never been more popular, and their product is going strong. So losing a supersmall percentage of durdlers seem worth it.

Actually Im thinking theyre selling the game for the fast profit (lots of players now), but losing in the long run (most new player leave the game after a short time and the old ones left as well)

[Aggro_zombies]

I think what happened to make Gatecrash and Dragon's Maze such disappointments for us is that RtR had all the goodies (and amazing ones they were) all in the first set, so we got spoiled and let down by it. If you look at RtR as a whole block, we still got a bunch of great stuff - it was all just up front.

So for me, I think it's actually a very cool time to be playing Legacy right now because we've been consistently getting big format shakers each block.
We've been consistently getting big format shakers since Alara, five years ago. Alara block really made Bant a viable color combination in addition to making Zoo a real deck; Zendikar brought Jace TMS, a boon for all slower blue decks, as well as Stoneforge and Emrakul; Scars brought Batterskull and a number of Reanimator cards; Innistrad had Snapcaster and Delver; RtR has Decay and Shaman.

In fact, since the original Ravnica block, only the Shadowmoor mini-block hasn't really contributed anything lasting. Time Spiral had Tarmogoyf, which single-handedly rewrote Legacy creature dynamics for years, while Lorwyn brought Thoughtseize and made Merfolk a viable deck (a position it held for years). This block isn't really that different from the historical average in terms of overall contributions, people are just disappointed because, as was said previously, the block was really front-loaded.

[Zand]

How often have you met or talked to the person that quit magic and sold their collection, only to return a few years later and have to buy in? Obviously you are dissatisfied with playing the game. So don't. I just wouldn't offload your collection straight away, you may want it later.

[HammafistRoob]

^ This
If you decide to quit put your collection away somewhere. Then two or three years down the road, if you still have no interest in the game,(unlikely) then go ahead and sell. Chances are either you'll be happy to still have the cards or they will be worth more.

[Megadeus]

If you need money, then sell. If not? Whats the rush?

[Finn]

Return to Ravnica

[TraxDaMax]

Who has ever been excited to see a core set anyways? I know I haven't.. I tend to avoid them as much as possible.
I mean, it's not like core set limited is any fun or hard for that matter.
I could see slivers adding some excitement to a core set in drafts and sealed. Atleast you have some kind of mini-synergy, that we older players immediately notice and think of the times when we built our first tribe deck. New players will get excited and start brewing with these things and eventually hopefully turn to the only real format, legacy. Where all your dreams(halls) can come true.