[deck] Control RiP_Helm

[Poron]

I started to play Miracle Control sometime ago, and after RtR, I slowly started to shift to this new version.

I noticed that no matter which deck I was against, the best thing I could do was to land a EF+RiP or a CounterTop lock.

At that point the whole engine of the deck became rather useless because all we had to find was the Helm of Obedience to close the match. Every else winning conditions, at that point were inferior.

So I started to add copies of Energy Field, Rest in Peace, Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top. Having the control of the stack (7-9 counters + CounterTop lock) the only thing that remained was to feel safe in the battlefield. That's where the green splash comes from: Sterling Grove. This gives us also SB bombs like Carpet of Flowers and Eyes of the Wisent

This deck evolves from the Miracle Control, and I feel it being an improved version.

The list:

3Sterling Grove
4Enlightened Tutor
4Brainstorm
3Sensei's Divining Top
3Counterbalance
4Rest in Peace
4Energy Field
4Force of Will
3Spell Pierce
3Stifle
2Detention Sphere
1Helm of Obedience
1Luminarch Ascension
1Porphyry Nodes

Lands:
4Flooded Strand
3Windswept Heat
4Misty Rainforest
4Tundra
2Tropical Island
1Island
1Plains
1Savannah

SB
3Carpet of Flowers
3Eyes of the Wisent
1Sterling Grove
3 Pithing Needle
something else

I like this deck a lot, the only thing is that I feel it being too slow to close the match (if we don't draw the Tutor for Helm)

[KazinMtg]

This deck is begging for 4 swords to plowshares and 3-4 terminus. That will solve your early agro problems. But really, you should just play miracles if you're going to want to do this.

[Poron]

Against early aggro (any kind) this deck only wants an Energy Field + Sterling Grove, eventually RiP.

Really, aggro matchup is something like >65% in my favour.
I only suffer Thalias archtype but that's where Porhyry Nodes comes into play.
An early E.Tutor for Nodes holds them very wel for 4-5 turns. At that point we often have Humility + Sterling Grove which's gg

[hqql]

[blablabla]

3Sterling Grove
4Enlightened Tutor
4Brainstorm
3Sensei's Divining Top
3Counterbalance
4Rest in Peace
4Energy Field
4Force of Will
3Spell Pierce
3Stifle
2Detention Sphere
1Helm of Obedience
1Luminarch Ascension
1Porphyry Nodes

Lands:
4Flooded Strand
3Windswept Heat
4Misty Rainforest
4Tundra
2Tropical Island
1Island
1Plains
1Savannah

SB
3Carpet of Flowers
3Eyes of the Wisent
1Sterling Grove
3 Pithing Needle
something else


..seriously? With all due respect good sir, but this looks quite a bit like a cheap mashup between Enchantress (Helm+RIP build) and CounterTop. I can imagine this deck being excruciatingly slow without any of the synergy and ramp one normally would find in Enchantress. There's a topic on the development of the deck right heya (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24692-Developmental-Enchantress-with-Rest-In-Peace-Helm) and I think you should really consider rebuilding your current deck towards it.

[Poron]

..seriously? With all due respect good sir, but this looks quite a bit like a cheap mashup between Enchantress (Helm+RIP build) and CounterTop. I can imagine this deck being excruciatingly slow without any of the synergy and ramp one normally would find in Enchantress. There's a topic on the development of the deck right heya (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24692-Developmental-Enchantress-with-Rest-In-Peace-Helm) and I think you should really consider rebuilding your current deck towards it.

this deck owns enchantress all day and all night.

useless to say I playtested that archtype for long and went this route just because of its better matchup against many DTB or other established

for example we fear Pernicious Deed? Indeed but we have 3 Stifle md. enchantress haven't.

not to mention we are much heavier then them with our CounterTop..

this deck 》》》》enchantress

but you're definitly right when you say my list is slow (at least in G1 without Carpet of Flowers)

[twndomn]

1. SDT
no excuse for not running 4 SDT. You want to do turn 1 Top.

2. clunky
4 Energy Field is clunky, totally garbage if you already have 1 in play.

[Poron]

you're definitly right about all but StP


I don't really feel like I want StP, never..
-2 Energy Field
-1 Rest in Peace
+1 Top

is something I have already done days ago

but, to me, you're understimating this list. a turn 0 Leyline + Sterling Grove seals some DTB matchup. Not to mention a single EF + RiP against Merfolk and Goblin, etc.

[Inf3rnalOn3]

How do you make a card highlighted so when you hover over it it shows a picture of the card? i would like to post my list, but want to make it user friendly.

Thanks!!

[KazinMtg]

How do you make a card highlighted so when you hover over it it shows a picture of the card? i would like to post my list, but want to make it user friendly.

Thanks!!

Use "cards" brackets. So basically like this [$cards] card name [$/cards] except without the $. I just put that in so you could actually see it.

[Inf3rnalOn3]

Use "cards" brackets. So basically like this [$cards] card name [$/cards] except without the $. I just put that in so you could actually see it.

Got it. Thanks! I'll post my deck tomorrow. :)

[Ralf]

@ the author of the thread.
I would not play lot of dual lands if I were you. Not in the meta right now.
There are a lot of games where you have to "tank" only with energy field online (without rest in peace). A waste and you are screwed.

Here is the list (few cards are different from mine) I've played during the GP Trial for Strasbourg at Bourges (44 players) reaching the semis...
Here is a summary that you might find interesting.

6 Island
4 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Flood stranded
4 Polluted delta
4 Rest in peace
4 Energy field
3 Brainstorm
4 Force of will
4 Sensei's divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Enlightened tutor
1 Helm of obedience
3 Spell pierce
3 Stifle
3 Oblivion ring
3 Porphyry node

SB:
4 Mindbreak trap
4 Divert
3 Echoing of Truth
2 Jace the Mindsculptor
2 Sword to Plowshares

As for the list. I was a bit on budget so that I could not make the 4th 'Flood Stranded' and had to pick a 4th 'Polluted delta'.
The SB was a last minute made (and very poorly) and except for the MBT, I did not use my SB at all even if I let some opponents believe that I was siding 10+ cards...
Luckily, I did meet only one discard lightly list (a variant of stoneblade) which did not even see a discard spell until I managed to land each game a counterbalance.


Round 1: Sneak & Show.

The guy was a newbie in Legacy. He had picked one of the most broken deck in the format and was expecting great results. I'm not a great player neither as I barely play tournaments (2 ou 3 a year maximum...) but luck was definitely on my side.

/lost the Toss/

Game 1 (1/0)

He managed a turn 1 S&T landing Emrakul.
I landed a Porphyry & say farewell to the Fatty.
By turn 2, I landed successfully a counterbal +top...Gameover.
It took him 8 more turns to discover that below the top were a CMC 3 and 4.
Not to say that every moves he made to recover were cowardly shred apart.
Eventually, he scooped.

Game 2 (2/0)

It was pretty much the same, except this time a resolve S&T with Emrakul met an oblivion ring.
Again, counter + top resolved made the day.

Results: 1-0-0

ROUND 2 Mirror match.

/Won the Toss/

Game 1 (0/1)

I didn't know that I was playing a mirror match.
By turn 3, I landed a Rip. Then he tried to land a CB, I won the counter battle and by turn 4 I resolved mine.
Nice CB bait, on his turn, he landed Helm (tapped out), I triggered the CB (land). I drew and scooped...

Game 2 (1/1) In 3 mindbreak 4 divert / Out: 3 Porphyry 4 Energy Field

I TOP turn 1 meeting one of his Fow.
I managed to land a CB by turn 3 (lucky) winning the counter battle again (got pierced and I FOW).
He did the same, and resolved his CB (bad trigger again...)
By turn 4, I drew into an Oblivion ring who got rid of his CB (the trigger met a land), then (turn 5) I drew another top and resolved it and he knew the battle was over and scooped.

Game 3 (2/1) Out 3 mindbreak / In 3 Energy field

Don't ask me why I made such a change in Game 3, but he played kinda a variant of my deck with Terminus / Angel and I expected a game 3 much more creatures orientated...Story will tell that I was right as he sided Geist and Clique.

This game was not very standard. No counters (CB)/No removal, I draw multiples Rip, which I finally managed to get rid off with a brainstorm and a fetch. Phewww.
By turn 3, he resolved a Geist and went to town.
By turn 4, a clique joined his forces and used it on himself to draw.
Luckily the much awaited brainstorm arrived and 'like a champ' allowed me to draw & land an energy field.
At this point, I knew I had him. My opponent started complaining about my side, that I should not have any fields left..blah blah.
The last game lasted until I managed to land a Helm. Mass was said.

Results: 2-0-0

ROUND 3 Sneak & Show

Another S&T list. The guy was far more experienced than the previous one and I knew that this match was going to be a pain in the ass.

/Won the Toss/

This match was not particularly one of my best ever...
I lost every counter battles from the start to the end.

Game 1 (0/1)

I threw a stifle to counter one of his fetch early game (turn 1 for him) and I missed it a few turns later when Emrakul was on the board and attacking... Every attempts I made to close the game were avorted. CB got countered and from there my opponent sat on playing nothing until he reached enough lands and a hand full of counter (Misdirection, FOW, pierce) to resolve a sneak attack.

Game 2 (0/2)

Pretty much the same as game 1 except that I managed to exile (O.Ring) sneak attack 3 times until he drew the fourth one. Nuts draw... I even managed to recover from an attacking emrakul and came back a bit in the game until the last sneak sealed the game.

Results: 2-0-1

ROUND 4 BELCHER

/Lost the toss/

I won't overextend on this match. Really.
I lost the first game because I did not have a FOW in hand and he went to town on his first turn.
Siding in only MBT. The next two games were pretty unfair for him as MBT closed out game 2 and FOW game 3...

Results 3-0-1

ROUND 5 STONEBLADE

/Lost the toss/

I do not remember pretty well this match as the first game took up to 40 min at least...
I locked him with a board full of CB, top, Rip, Energy field and waited until my opponent scooped.
Did I do it on purpose?
At the beginning no, I was just waiting for the 'right' time to bring down my helm but...as the game went on, I convinced myself that it was a smarter play to not show him my kill, at all.
Eventually, he scooped with 3 cards left in its library when mine was at 12(+).

Why such a choice? Well I was not sure I could win game 2 and 3. I had him show lots of discard + counter spells so that I was a bit afraid that my early resolved CB will never happen again in game 2 & 3. So I took the long route.
Anyway I didn't stall at all during this game. All of my turn were, draw, land/or not, discard and go...
A judge was watching anyway and he might have thought "What the hell is happening here, both players are drawing, then discarding and passing turns...". Well yeah, with CB + top on the field, I took some pleasure, once happy with my strategy, to go for an oldschool "mill" kill.

Game 2: Uh !? 5 min. I decided to reward my opponent for having such guts on the first game that I landed Rip+Helm combo by turn 5 to let him see THE kill !

If you read this, sorry mate, was looking for top 8... You got caught in something 'really' nasty.

Results 4-0-1

ROUND 6 BELCHER (Pairing is kidding right ?)

Well, we decided to make a draw for this one, as both of us were good to go to top 8 !
Cool, that was the perfect time for some rest as playing this deck is very very intensive (6 rounds already and barely 10 min rest between each round)

Results 4-1-1

TO BE CONTINUED...

[Poron]

top 8 without even Sterling Grove? good one! I'm glad to see some interest in the deck! :D

[Ralf]

top 8 without even Sterling Grove? good one! I'm glad to see some interest in the deck! :D

Actually, the tournament did take place in April. So that the "interest" was there before you posted a list.

I 've always liked the idea of having one and only one kill card in a deck and that is why my deck was originally built around that idea.
Anyway, that was just to let the community know that this strategy can "work" to a certain extend.

With abrupt decay all over the place, we will have some hard time to perform well but who knows...

I hope that some players will also give it a try (in tournament...) and that we will be able to share point of views and why not improve it to make it more competitive !!!

Quick add to the primer. I think "Oblivion ring" is better in the meta than "Detention sphere" to a certain extend because it does not die to REB...Just something to consider.

[Poron]

I wasn't trying the take the paternity of anything (this is definitly a RipHelm combo with CounterTop and EField) nothing that requires a NASA brainstorming.

I was just saying that I'm glad to see that the "idea" is liked by other guys

[Inf3rnalOn3]

My version of the deck. It's very similar to the above list, with a few differences. I am looking for input and improvements.

//Main
6Island
2Plains
4Tundra
4Scalding Tarn
4Flooded Strand
1Karakas
4Counterbalance
4Sensei's Divining Top
4Force of Will
4Brainstorm
4Rest of Peace
4Energy Field
3Counterspell
3Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3Swords to Plowshares
3Enlightened Tutor
2Spell Pierce
2Helm of Obedience
//Sideboard
1Moat
2Humility
2Back to Basics
3Leyline of Sanctity
1Engineered Explosives
1Flusterstorm
1Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1Ethersworn Canonist
1Disenchant
1Detention Sphere
1Ensnaring Bridge

I'll post my results from SCGTN later. Thanks.

[twndomn]

1. You don't need Sterling Grove to Top 8.

2. O Ring > Detention Sphere. I agree with that statement, totally unnecessarily to be able to pitch to FoW, when it can get REB/Pyro.

3. Land count, all these lists on this thread with land count below 22. This sounds like gambling to me, missing a land drop early game could cost you.

These rip-helm lists can be described as:
-1 Entreat the Angel from miracle
-3 Termius from miracle

+1 Counterbalance
+3 Energy Field

I post a similar argument in another thread, regarding non-green versions.

q: when no top, no rip, no ef:
a: tutor top
q: when top, no rip, no ef:
a: tutor rip
q: when top, rip, no ef:
a: tutor helm to win now.

At which point do you actually care about ef, other than you happen to sensei's diving top it or just blind top deck into it? With green for grove, of course it's different.

[Poron]

against goblin, I tutor EF to watch them cry 5-6 turns actually...

[Ralf]

After hundreds of games, I've never felt I was low on land count with only 20...
My curve is finally low (3 cards at 3cmc and 1 at 4 cmc). But this is because my deck is a bit awkward.

But who knows ? It feels more like a personal preference and a lot of testing against the field.

To be more precise, I'll add that my gameplan is not really to win by turn 5.
With this kind of deck, you want to glue your opponent and lock him down. If only all my matches could have ended with 1-0... You really don't want to play another game after the first one.

Porphyry nodes really is an ALL-STAR as it gives you a huge stalling effect. Depending on the deck you are facing, you should drop it right after the first resolved creature or the second. After the third, the stalling effect is completely shut-off as your opponent will still play creatures no matter what.
For the records, I've challenged STP & Porphyry. Porphyry is just better in this deck as it hoses troublesome creatures (hexproof, protection etc..). No need to say that with a EF + RIP running midgame, it will take out every creatures on the battlefield, one by one.
Of course, it happens that STP would have been better than Porphyry when you have to get rid of Bob.

Counterbalance is the BAIT. You can live without it. Really. Play it always before RIP. You want RIP to resolve. Once RIP + EF are settled, you will eventually draw into another counterbalance. Exception to this rule is combo deck (sneak, storm) where counterbalance > RIP.

As a side note, you have to play this deck as tight as possible. Avoid fetching for duals unless you really have to. Sometimes, I did not play my tundras at all just in case I lose RIP and then...losing EF on a wasteland. Generally if I have enough lands, I wait for a brainstorm + fetch to get rid of them all.

At last we can discuss about "stifle" MD. I like it. Sometimes it was a dead card. Sometimes, it won me games. If you consider packing it, remember that we are not a tempo deck...Don't use it on fetch !!! LOL :-(

@Inf3rnal:

1) Unfortunately, Jace is not going anywhere with our/your list. EF does not protect him, just cut it as we don't rely on massive removal such as wrath/terminus/verdict. I had him in the SB, he was really bad. Replace him with Clique. It will do a better job and it goes with your one-of Karakas.

2) Nice catch on the counterspell. I wish I had some against bad MU. But we still need to figure out if Pierce > Counterspell or Counterspell > Pierce. Generally Pierce > Counterspell early and then midgame Counterspell>Pierce definitely. As a control deck I would say I should have gone with counterspell but pierce are so relevant against discard and liliana turn 2...
This need more testing.

@ Poron:

I have thought about sterling grove. It does protect you a bit from abrupt decay. But I feel like it slow you down drastically. I cannot think of any kind of MU where I would have wanted him in my hand. Not to say that it screws your manabase, forcing you to run lots of duals which overall, imho, is not quite a good idea. I am more concern about being wasteland-proof that any other thing.
I'll tell why.

Some decks are really really hard to beat. Usually I like going the long route but against heavy discard decks, I can just pray to close the game by turn 5. And that is only possible if turn 5, I have 5 lands. That's the only way I could seal some deals against TA, Jund, etc... I mean that everything got blasted except RIP and then on turn 4, opponent's eot, tutor for Helm and kill.
Unless you tell me you win hands down against deck packing heavy discards MD (TA, Jund, etc...), I would not run it.

[Inf3rnalOn3]

@Ralf Would you consider taking the Jace out for Porphry Nodes? I often lose to creatures, and was debating putting Terminus back in the deck. I dislike Terminus, and think Nodes would be better overall. I don't mind Putting in V Cliques, they're still pitchable to FoW. Just wondered what your take was on the Nodes/Terminus/V Cliques.

Thanks!!

[Ralf]

What kind of deck are you losing to ? "creatures" is too vague to give you any good advice...

Here are my thoughts and some hints:

1) As stated before, Jace should go, imho.
2) Now I cannot just tell you to replace him by Porphyry. What I like with Porphyry is that it can give you, against fair decks, some card advantage which is what our deck is lacking above all. It also buys you time to resolve EF.
3) Consider revising your deck. I think you have two few basics.
4) You also miss some 3 cmc cards. You definitely need some (at least 2) because you are losing a great deal with CB.
5) Enlightened tutor should be a 4-of as we don't generate CA, so that you need to pick up the right card at the right time to seal the deal. Furthermore no need to say that with a CB in play a tutor is generally a "free counterspell" giving you back the card you lose by playing tutor. Given that your deck must include a way to tutor for 1 cmc, 2 cmc, 3 cmc and 4 cmc. I would not go for a tutorable 5 cmc card as FOW fullfil already this role and by the time a 5 cmc card is played you should already have answer for it (CB + Top + FOW, counterspell, etc..)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've been playtesting with infernalone. He struggles with RUG Delver and jund mostly. Also Merfolk I know has given him fits in our meta.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

About the decay thing:
I've been testing Stasis and did not test this. But I have a similar problem: Abrupt Decay is a pest. At least you can effort 2 Energy Field in play, something my Stasis list cannot. Also you should have less issues with permanents.

I tried Misdirection to some success. You could also try divert over spell pierce. Those also hit counterspells, just not permanents or show and tell. And they are bombs vs Hymn, sometimes even Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek (Duress targets opponents - too bad).

Hope this helps.

[Poron]

Green is your man here.

Sterling Grove + Carpet of Flowers (SB)

Abrupt Decay is a staple in 70% of the decks (roughly).

The decision, imho, is only about playing 3 Sterling Grove MD or NOT playing this deck