[Deck] NO-BUG

[Kich867]

I had been thinking for awhile about NO-RUG back in the day and how it was a really great deck because of Mental Misstep, and how I didn't -quite- understand why Red was even there besides cheap removal and I guess Red-Blast to make casting it easier. So I've been toying with the idea of NO-BUG, which gives you: Deathrite Shaman, possibly Liliana, Thoughtseize, and Abrupt Decay.

The big draw here for me is that the deck can operate almost entirely as a standard BUG list that has this very powerful bomb spell to seal it if it makes sense to use. Here's the list I've been testing to excellent results with:

// Creatures: 12
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Progenitus
2x Vendilion Clique

// Spells: 28
1x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Thoughtseize
4x Natural Order
2x Ponder

3x Force of Will
3x Spell Pierce
3x Daze
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm

// Lands: 20
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
2x Bayou
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Island
1x Forest
1x Swamp

// Sideboard:
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Sylvan Library
1x Darkblast
1x Duress
2x Golgari Charm
3x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Flusterstorm
1x Force of Will
1x Engineered Explosives

I feel pretty confident in most matchups I've played so far, with more experience Esper feels like an ok matchup, probably relying more on just the standard bug plan. Show and Tell doesn't feel like that big of a deal with so much counter magic and discard as well as a fast clock. Dredge was tense, but with Deathrite Shamans, counterspells for their dread returns, and spell bomb's in the side I feel pretty comfortable here as well. Those are the matchups I've been playing thus far.

I think the biggest thing that's been bothering me is the lack of usefulness for Daze, though it has proven to be an interesting card to work with. It's actually just more useful to force people to play around it, giving me time to build up or play my own threats a tad more aggressively. A 21st land would be nice, and I've considered dropping a daze for it. Otherwise the list feels quite tight.

[KazinMtg]

Is having only 10 green creatures enough to make it worth it? I like the concept, but it feels like you'll probably need to up that to at least 12.

[kiblast]

You should probably play another Dryad Arbor. Also, you are playing already 6 turn one accellerations so curving out into t2 Clique t3 JTMS or Order is the most broken thing you can do. Is there any chance you can fit some Jaces as well?

Let's test it.:smile:

[igri_is_a_bk]

I'd change 4 Delta to 4 Misty so you can fetch Arbor. As an Elves player with a lot more green dudes, I can tell you that's still a major sac outlet for NO.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

You may be interested in checking out this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19683-Deck-UGB-River-Rock-(formerly-Intuition-Thresh)) deck. The loss of Mental Misstep was unfortunate, and prompted a switch away from the tempo of Snuff Out towards the power of Abrupt Decay. It's been a little while since I updated the thread, since I've not attended a tourney in a while (although I plan to--perhaps tomorrow or next week). I need to update the primer a bit too, especially to reflect my current list. It's actually pretty decent in the current metagame, although firmly Tier 2.


My current list looks like this:

Lands (19)

3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Wasteland


Creatures (16)

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Gigapede
1 Progenitus


Spells (26)

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Intuition
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
3 Natural Order
1 Unearth
1 Life from the Loam


Sideboard (15)

4 Duress
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Mana Leak



I may start using 1 Deathrite Shaman in place of 1 Noble Hierarch, but I think that more (at least, more than 2) would be counterproductive.

[Kich867]

I may start using 1 Deathrite Shaman in place of 1 Noble Hierarch, but I think that more (at least, more than 2) would be counterproductive.

I don't actually understand this, given that Noble Hierarch cannot tap for black (relevant) and provides almost no utility to the deck. Deathrite Shaman is a relevant clock and provides enough utility to warrant his inclusion completely over Noble Hierarch.

I was about to type it all out, but you should probably know already the many reasons he's a substantially better card. I had gotten to a lengthy paragraph about him before stopping. There's nothing Noble Hierarch actually does that's relevant besides tapping for mana and Deathrite does that better in a more relevant way.

If you're worried about him and Tarmogoyf, it's -quite- easy to avoid hindering a Tarmogoyf. In my rather lengthy experience playing BUG variants it's actually never been a relevant interaction, and unless you and your opponent simply do nothing there's never a shortage of instants or sorceries to eat. If you're worried about multiples feeling redundant, they sometimes are, but the card is so cheap and so powerful he demands answer, and typically running multiples out is the wrong play anyways. Although sometimes it's the right call, the other day I had 2 deathrite shamans and a 4/5 goyf out against Show and Tell, and after a lengthy counter war that I won, hitting someone for 8 every turn is a rather fast clock. He's a lot easier to use than Grim Lavamancer, and the damage is -not- insignificant.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I don't actually understand this, given that Noble Hierarch cannot tap for black (relevant) and provides almost no utility to the deck. Deathrite Shaman is a relevant clock and provides enough utility to warrant his inclusion completely over Noble Hierarch.

I was about to type it all out, but you should probably know already the many reasons he's a substantially better card. I had gotten to a lengthy paragraph about him before stopping. There's nothing Noble Hierarch actually does that's relevant besides tapping for mana and Deathrite does that better in a more relevant way.

If you're worried about him and Tarmogoyf, it's -quite- easy to avoid hindering a Tarmogoyf. In my rather lengthy experience playing BUG variants it's actually never been a relevant interaction, and unless you and your opponent simply do nothing there's never a shortage of instants or sorceries to eat. If you're worried about multiples feeling redundant, they sometimes are, but the card is so cheap and so powerful he demands answer, and typically running multiples out is the wrong play anyways. Although sometimes it's the right call, the other day I had 2 deathrite shamans and a 4/5 goyf out against Show and Tell, and after a lengthy counter war that I won, hitting someone for 8 every turn is a rather fast clock. He's a lot easier to use than Grim Lavamancer, and the damage is -not- insignificant.


Actually, my concern is over turn 2 and 3 mana; I only have five fetches and 19 lands, one of which has summoning sickness. Your version, by contrast, has 20 lands (minus Dryad), a full eight of which are fetches.

I agree thats DS is superior. My reticence is born of caution and a desire to playtest first.

[HammafistRoob]

Does this deck need removal? With NO isn't the plan to just go bigger than your opponents threats? I feel like if you cut Abrupt Decay(gasp!!) and added 3 Jace and a 2nd GSZ you could consistently be dropping bombs on turn 3 while running a bunch of reactive spells to back you up. I would also try out a few sol lands, maybe just 4. I know turn 2 NO or Jace sounds like magical christmasland.
EDIT-Maybe something like this could be beast.

// Creatures: 12
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Progenitus
2x Vendilion Clique

// Spells: 27
2x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Thoughtseize
4x Natural Order

3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4x Force of Will
3x Spell Pierce
3x Daze
4x Brainstorm

// Lands: 21
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Island
1x Forest
4x Ancient Tomb

[Kich867]

The goal is moreso to not go balls deep on the NO-Pro plan. The deck firmly operates as a midrange BUG deck (and often wins solely on the back of having a quick clock with disruption). It simply has the option of slamming a progenitus and asking if they can beat you in a turn or two.

I agree to an extent that Abrupt Decay isn't the greatest, but I would not go so deep on hoping to find a natural order and keeping a green creature alive long enough.

[HammafistRoob]

All I did to your list is
-4 Decay
-2 Ponder
-4 Delta
-1 Swamp
-1 Island
-1 Bayou
+1 Force
+1 GSZ
+3 Jace
+4 Tomb
+4 Misty

I don't think this makes you rely on NO more at all because I actually added another wincon that also acts as psuedo removal. I believe it's at least worth a try.

[Juice11]

I know this is an old thread, but I have been working on this deck for the past couple of months and played it to 3-3 at the GP last weekend.

The List:

Creatures 16
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Heirarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Baleful Strix
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Progenitus

I really like this creature suite, 7 mana dorks plus dryad arbor seems like the perfect number to allow for consistent explosive starts. Strix and Goyf help to block up the board and give you time to NO. Craterhoof was a late edition and it really performed well. He stole me at least 2 games.

Spells 2
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time
3 Natural Order
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dismember

Dismember can be replaced with anything, I think a pulse or disfigure out be ok. It could also be a 2nd zenith or 3rd ponder. DTT was stellar, it won me 2 games throughout the day by itself and really performed well overall.

Land 19
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

I think the land count is solid, I was siding out basic forest for every deck without wasteland. I think 18 lands is optimal with all the mana dorks and the low curve. Cradle has some real applications as a utility land.


Sideboard 15
2 Disfigure
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Ruric Thar, The Unbowed
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Scavenging Ooze

The sideboard was pretty janky to be honest. The planeswalkers are for miracles, but I never played against miracles so I never really got to see how they performed. The thoughtseizes, spell pierces, and disfigures were all very good. The second scooze was lackluster and I didn't get to use the other 2 order targets.


Cards considered:
Scryb Ranger
Gaea's Cradle
Island
Vendillion Clique
Birds of Paradise
Eternal Whitness
Thragtusk
Thrun the Last Troll


The deck felt really solid, I made a few mistakes throughout the day. I didn't actually see a Natural order until my 4th match which was pretty odd. The deck can win just by playing as a bug good stuff style deck. Having the NO combo really helps to close out games when you have just a couple of small creatures.