[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

[Mackan]

I tried the black splash yesterday at my LGS. Here's my reasoning...
At first I did not want to add another color because 1) I did not think we actually needed cards from the other colors 2) I did not want to weaken my manabase. Then I figured that a small splash would perhaps be allright. Switching an island for a dual goes a long way in a deck with 8 fetches and 2 Lotus Petal. I am not talking Burning Wish splash, just a few sideboard cards like REB/thoughtseize or Pyroclasm/Massacre. I then looked at one of Lejay's lists and was tempted by the maindeck thoughtseize. I am not fond of running Thoughtseize maindeck without a swamp in the 75 and while Lejay put his in the sideboard I am super scared of Wasteland so I wanted it maindeck. Fetching for Underground Sea in the dark only to see a Wasteland in my opponent's hand from a Thoughtseize is exactly what could keep me awake at night. I did not want to reduce the number of blue sources for Swamp so I either had to add another land or to cut a sol-land. I realized that the tempo deck of choice now is BUG-Delver and not RUG-Delver which made the Defense Grid pretty pointless (because BUG is full of both discard and counterspells). Defense Grid still a good card against miracles, merfolk and Blade but it's not crucial and it's definitly not worth running the 4 sol-lands to support it. By reducing the total to 3-sol lands I could add a Swamp instead. So, with a mana base to support a few black spells I had to figure out what to cut for Thoughtseize. I do not want the full 4 because discard is a terrible topdeck and the lifeloss can be relevant. I am not sure if 2 or 3 is correct but for testing purposes I was going to start with 3.
Even thought I love both Gitaxian Probe and Flusterstorm I think these are the first cuts as Thoughtseize is almost a mix of the two. I went down to from 4 to 0 Probes and from 4 to 3 Flusterstorms for 3 Thoughtseize and an Intuition. I am going back and forth on Intuition but after losing to the deck itself (not finding the second combopiece) in great machups I put it back in the 75 to speed things up. With Thoughtseize it's also possible to spot Extirpate/Surgical Extractions. In the sideboard I removed the 2 Defense Grid for 2 Massacre, a card I was super happy to test as Meddling Mage was exactly the card I lost to after having Resolved Defense Grid in the finals of a MODO-daily a few days ago. It's of course not set in stone that I can't fit both in my sideboard, Defense Grid is pretty good at protecting Massacre, but I do not want to make any more big changes for testing purposes. A final upgrade was to replace Snap with Slaughter Pact.

M1: Dark Maverick.

G1: He mulliganed and a (delta->swamp) Thoughtseize revealed Hidden Gibbons, Jötun Grunt, 2 swords to plowshares. I got there in a turn or two.
G2: Opponent played duress turn 1,2,3 and I won turn 5. My hand was pretty redundant with multiple combo pieces and DTT. He did a misplay of using scavenging Ooze instead of keeping mana up to play Containment Priest in response to my Show and tell for Emrakul. I was not under much pressure so I would have waited for an Omniscience or a Cunning Wish and it's possible I would've found it in the 3-4 turns I had. It's still possible it was wrong for me to to go for it as I would've lost to karakas or Oblivion Ring but waiting only gives him more permanents in play and more chances of drawing either of these cards. With low enough life it's not unrealistic to die on the back-swing after an attack with Emrakul, so I played and preyed.

M2: ANT

G1: I kept Lotus Petal, fetchland, thoughtseize, flusterstorm, brainstorm, Island, Show and tell. Pretty amazing on the play. Not on the draw vs storm with a FTK :D
G2: I played Thoughtseize turn 1 and took his brainstorm, leaving him with a very weak hand. He pondered into ponder and I killed him turn 2.
G3: He played a Ponder, I played a Thoughtseize and removed one of his Brainstorms. He played cabal Therapy (drawn) and I force of willed it. I proceeded to kill him turn 2.
These games felt pretty stupid. I must say that even though I was lucky twice I felt pretty good overall with 3 flusterstorm 3 thoughtseize and 4 Force of Will.

M3: UWR-blade

G1: I Thoughtseized seeing Force of will, Spell Snare, Daze, Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull and 2 lands. Removing Force of Will. I asked him if he wanted to tap out for Stoneforge if I played Infernal Tutor or Exhume and he declined. I cantripped and played my second land. He played TNN and passed. I missed my third land and passed. He attacked and played stoneforge fetching Jitte. I cantripped and found A Lotus Petal. I had the combo but was missing a force of will or a land to pay for the Daze. I got there next turn because he would not have enough mana to equip TNN with Batterskull.
G2: Now it was time to try Massacre! I was pretty sure he had Meddling Mage but I did in fact not see them. It was still good as it killed a TNN and a Delver buying me plenty of time.

M4: 12-post

G1: I have played Miracles more than most and facing 12-post allways made me feel miserable. Now it was time to change that! I kept a 7 and won.
G2: I mulliganed to 5 before finding a spell. He kept 7 and played Sensei's Divining Top. Turn 3 I played Jace into untapped Tropical Island. I figured most lists play Flusterstorm and not Spell Pierce and waiting would not really accomplish anything with him having a top and me mulliganing to 5. Jace Resolved and I brainstormed the following three turns. I let a Chalice of the Void for 1 resolve. I then dug my own grave. It was pretty comical how I first managed to get back on a mull to 5, get a huge advantage and losing. Here's what happened. I brainstormed with Jace hoping to find a an additional Counterspell or a Cunning wish but all I found was more copies of Show and tell. I played Show and tell, he forced and I forced back. Show and tell resolved and I put Omniscience into play (ready to drop emrakul). He put Ashen Rider into play and I responded with DTT finding only Ponder and Force of will + 5 lands. Omniscience died and so did jace after he attacked it the next turn. Then I died. So maybe it was correct to play Show and tell there. It's not common for them to play Ashen Rider (it was not on my radar at all) but there was absolutley no reason to use Jace before show and telling. Instead I could've just bounced the Ashen rider and proceed to sculpt my hand.
G3: Turn 5 I cantripped three times into a Thoughtseize which he countered with Mindbreak Trap. Turn 6 or so I went played SnT on the back of Boseiju, who shelters all with double FoW and a Flusterstorm and won.
After the match he told me he sideaboarded 13 cards so this version of 12-post was certainly not the bye I was expecting...But today I was very lucky.

I liked the black splash and will continue to test it.

To end and overall great day I ripped 2 ugin, the spirit dragon and a monastary mentor from the 10 packs I won :-)

[kuroko16]

What kind of discard is popular in your meta? Hymn and spot discard
are very different.

Hymn and thoughtseize :frown:

[Zilong]

@Mackan
Glad to see someone talk about Lejay' Ub list, thanks for the report.

Some infos for you, according to the report of that tournament in the forum Legacy-France, the meta is full of combo decks, even include a Omni mirror match. The main deck 3 thoughtseize may do some excellent works.

And IMO, some decks have multi-form hate card, like discard+medling Mage+surgical+counter in esper, the thoughtseize can resolve these hates without the concern that u got the sideboard card but face a hate incorresponding.

About the defense grid, it has the same function as Boseiju, The list in TCDECKS has a little error, Lejay said that he play 2 cage, not Grid.

[zzregz]

@Mackan
Glad to see someone talk about Lejay' Ub list, thanks for the report.

Some infos for you, according to the report of that tournament in the forum Legacy-France, the meta is full of combo decks, even include a Omni mirror match. The main deck 3 thoughtseize may do some excellent works.

And IMO, some decks have multi-form hate card, like discard+medling Mage+surgical+counter in esper, the thoughtseize can resolve these hates without the concern that u got the sideboard card but face a hate incorresponding.

About the defense grid, it has the same function as Boseiju, The list in TCDECKS has a little error, Lejay said that he play 2 cage, not Grid.




Can you please post the link, i cant find the page. I just wanna check the decklist. Thanks... :)

[Zilong]

Can you please post the link, i cant find the page. I just wanna check the decklist. Thanks... :)

http://www.legacy-france.org/index.php?showtopic=12661
(the report original in franch, click the button in the topic for the lists)

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15988&iddeck=119214
(list in tcdecks, 2 defense grid→2 Cage)

[Mackan]

@Mackan
Glad to see someone talk about Lejay' Ub list, thanks for the report.

Some infos for you, according to the report of that tournament in the forum Legacy-France, the meta is full of combo decks, even include a Omni mirror match. The main deck 3 thoughtseize may do some excellent works.

And IMO, some decks have multi-form hate card, like discard+medling Mage+surgical+counter in esper, the thoughtseize can resolve these hates without the concern that u got the sideboard card but face a hate incorresponding.

About the defense grid, it has the same function as Boseiju, The list in TCDECKS has a little error, Lejay said that he play 2 cage, not Grid.

Black is having a huge comeback now, mostly because of BUG-delver and Grixis-midrange. Seeing as even this deck splashes for black I might have to re-evaluate Leyline of Sanctity again... Not that I like the Leyline-lottery but with Boseiju, Massacre and LLoS there is hardly anything that can penetrate our defenses... The cuts from my list would be 2 jace, 1 hurkyl's recall and the second grafdigger's cage.

Another hedge towards black could be to introduce sensei's divining top in the list. We allready run the full sets of Preordain, Ponder and Brainstorm so it's not really about comparing it to those but more as a 13th cantrip that is not gitaxian probe. I was allergic to SDT in high tide a couple of months ago but that deck is atleast a turn slower and the meta was not dominated by black spells the way I feel it is going to be in the near future. I am going to give it a shot. The whole thesis of "black" beeing the disruption of choice in the metagame will slow the games down and every card will matter more. This makes me want to go up to 19 lands and cut the 2 petals (and become pretty close to Lejay's exact list:).

SDT even "combos" with Lim-Duls vault which I am currently trying out as a 1-of (even though it's pure card-disadvantage and the opposite of what I just said). The alternatives are not really there so we have to work with what we got (demonic tutor would be pretty good I hear).

@Defense grid
It sure can have the same function as Boseiju but Defense grid is mainly there for decks with counterspells and wasteland. Seeing as those are more black than red we are fine without them (I hope).

EDIT: I will also test replacing LDV with Predict. The card is busted if you have time to set it up. It can also screw up opposing counterbalances and enlightened tutors as well as trigger of Delver of Secrets.

Current list:

CREATURES (2)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Omniscience
SORCERIES (15)
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
INSTANTS (19)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
3 Flusterstorm
1 Predict
ARTIFACTS (1)
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (19)
6 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Eladamri’s Call
2 Massacre
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Trickbind
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dig Through Time
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl’s Recall

[kuroko16]

Finish 11° ( 175 or 177 players I don't remember) last week in iTALY.

6-2

1) WIN 2-0 vs ANT
2) WIN 2-1 vs ANT
3) Lost 0-2 vs UWR Control
4) WIN 2-1 vs Food Chain
5) WIN 2-O vs Patriot
6) LOST 1-2 vs UW Control
7) WIN 2-0 vs Team America
8) WIN 2-0 vs Lands

my list:

Creatures [1]
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants [19]
1 Impulse
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [16]
1 Enter the Infinite
3 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments [4]
4 Omniscience

Lands [20]
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
8 Island


1 Sapphire Charm
1 Flusterstorm
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Rushing River
1 Firemind's Foresight
3 Defense Grid
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Release the Ants
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Noxious Revival
1 Divert
1 Misdirection

Make big error against UWR Control in game 3. Very unlucky against UW Control in game 6 :(

Boseiju, Who Shelters All is really a great card. Not sure about Divert in side. Probably i will change for another Boseiju or Jace.

[zzregz]

Finish 11° ( 175 or 177 players I don't remember) last week in iTALY.

6-2

1) WIN 2-0 vs ANT
2) WIN 2-1 vs ANT
3) Lost 0-2 vs UWR Control
4) WIN 2-1 vs Food Chain
5) WIN 2-O vs Patriot
6) LOST 1-2 vs UW Control
7) WIN 2-0 vs Team America
8) WIN 2-0 vs Lands

my list:

Creatures [1]
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants [19]
1 Impulse
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [16]
1 Enter the Infinite
3 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments [4]
4 Omniscience

Lands [20]
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
8 Island


1 Sapphire Charm
1 Flusterstorm
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Rushing River
1 Firemind's Foresight
3 Defense Grid
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Release the Ants
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Noxious Revival
1 Divert
1 Misdirection

Make big error against UWR Control in game 3. Very unlucky against UW Control in game 6 :(

Boseiju, Who Shelters All is really a great card. Not sure about Divert in side. Probably i will change for another Boseiju or Jace.


Congratulations!
Can please tell the details of your match to every round...
Thanks... :)

[kuroko16]

1) WIN 2-0 vs ANT

2) WIN 2-1 vs ANT

3) LOST 0-2 vs UWR Control

4) WIN 2-1 vs Food Chain

5) WIN 2-O vs Patriot

6) LOST 1-2 vs UW Control

7) WIN 2-0 vs Team America

8) WIN 2-0 vs Lands

Round 1 vs ANT 2-0

G1: My opponent starts with a Usea into a Duress. I've got a great hand, the only downside is that I have no protection. He decides to discard Gitaxian Probe, leaving a Show and Tell in my hand. Turn 2 I draw an Omni so Show and Tell for Omniscience for Emrakul. Easy game.

G2: He starts with Usea into a Ponder. I Have a Force of Will, Show and Tell, 3 Cantrips and 2 Lands. Turn 3 I decide to Show and Tell and he counters with Flustestorm. I was surprised and pass the turn. I was sure to be dead next turn but he did absolutely nothing. Next draw I found a Gitaxian Probe and he shows only 3 Dark Ritual and nothing more. In the next 2 turns I found another Show and Tell for Omni and Enter the Infinite.

　

Round 2 vs ANT 2-1

G1: Easy win on turn 3.

G2: Is totally different. He destroys me with 2 Duress and Cabal Therapy. I wasn't be able to stop him when he flashback a Cabal Therapy (sacrificing Dark Confidant) and I loose.

G3: I was convinced to be dead on his turn 3 but DTT saved me (played in response to Infernal Tutor) because I found a pitch for my Force of Will. Turn 4 I did Gitaxian and he shows me 2 Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal and a LED. So I decide to Show and Tell into Emrakul with 3 Force of Will in my hand. The next turn he plays a Dark Ritual (resolves), for a Dark Ritual (resolves), for a Cabal Ritual (resolves), for a LED (resolves) for a Lotus Petal (resolves): he thinks for a second and then plays Ad Nauseam (his last card in hand) but I counter it with Force of Will and win the game.

　

Round 3 vs UWR Control 0-2

G1: Turn 3 I play Show and Tell for Omni with Ponder, Impulse, Brainstorm and Pact of Negation. Gitaxian shows me only 1 Force of Will so I decide to go off. Unfortunately I can't find Enter the Infinite or Cunning Wish with Ponder + Brainstorm + Impulse: I see only lands. First time in my life. Dead for Pact of Negation.

G2: Lost an amazing counter war. He stops my Defense Grid two times and Jace destroys me. He was probably the best player I've played with in my life.

　

Round4 vs Food Chain 2-1

G1: I go off turn 3 (protected) and win with Emrakul.

G2: I make a big mistake. My fault.

G3: I go off turn 4 (with Boseiju) playing Cunning Wish and winning with Emrakul.

　

Round5 vs Patriot 2-0

G1: Turn 3 kill.

G2: Turn 3 kill.

　

Round 6 vs UW Control 1-2

G1: Turn 3 kill with Boseiju.

G2: I go off in turn 3. I have Force of Will, Show and Tell, 2 Omniscience and Emrakul. Show resolves. He drops Humility. Found nothing for the next 3 turns. Then I die.

G3: I black out and loose. I was still thinking about Humility on G2. My mistake.

　

Round 7 vs Team America 2-0

G1: Win on Turn 3.

G2: Win on Turn4. Misdirection is God.

　

Round 8 vs Lands 2-0

G1: Win on Turn 5 or 6 (2 Rishadan Port slows me down).

G2: Win onTurn 3 or 4.

　

I'm playing only Omnitell and Sneak and Show. At this moment I think that Omni is much better. Wasteland is not a problem and it's good against discard decks more than Sneak and Show.

I'm satisfied about my list. DTT is the best card in this deck.

The only doubt is about 1 Divert in the sideboard. Probably I will replace it for 1 Boseiju or something else. I really love the 1 Misdirection in side.

I'm a new player so probably I did many errors but thanks to my friends (Peter and Lino) I really improved very quickly.

Still really disappointed about that Turn 6.

Hope to improve for next tournament.

[Tokugawa]

1) WIN 2-0 vs ANT

2) WIN 2-1 vs ANT

3) LOST 0-2 vs UWR Control

4) WIN 2-1 vs Food Chain

5) WIN 2-O vs Patriot

6) LOST 1-2 vs UW Control

7) WIN 2-0 vs Team America

8) WIN 2-0 vs Lands

Round 1 vs ANT 2-0

G1: My opponent starts with a Usea into a Duress. I've got a great hand, the only downside is that I have no protection. He decides to discard Gitaxian Probe, leaving a Show and Tell in my hand. Turn 2 I draw an Omni so Show and Tell for Omniscience for Emrakul. Easy game.

G2: He starts with Usea into a Ponder. I Have a Force of Will, Show and Tell, 3 Cantrips and 2 Lands. Turn 3 I decide to Show and Tell and he counters with Flustestorm. I was surprised and pass the turn. I was sure to be dead next turn but he did absolutely nothing. Next draw I found a Gitaxian Probe and he shows only 3 Dark Ritual and nothing more. In the next 2 turns I found another Show and Tell for Omni and Enter the Infinite.

　

Round 2 vs ANT 2-1

G1: Easy win on turn 3.

G2: Is totally different. He destroys me with 2 Duress and Cabal Therapy. I wasn't be able to stop him when he flashback a Cabal Therapy (sacrificing Dark Confidant) and I loose.

G3: I was convinced to be dead on his turn 3 but DTT saved me (played in response to Infernal Tutor) because I found a pitch for my Force of Will. Turn 4 I did Gitaxian and he shows me 2 Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal and a LED. So I decide to Show and Tell into Emrakul with 3 Force of Will in my hand. The next turn he plays a Dark Ritual (resolves), for a Dark Ritual (resolves), for a Cabal Ritual (resolves), for a LED (resolves) for a Lotus Petal (resolves): he thinks for a second and then plays Ad Nauseam (his last card in hand) but I counter it with Force of Will and win the game.

　

Round 3 vs UWR Control 0-2

G1: Turn 3 I play Show and Tell for Omni with Ponder, Impulse, Brainstorm and Pact of Negation. Gitaxian shows me only 1 Force of Will so I decide to go off. Unfortunately I can't find Enter the Infinite or Cunning Wish with Ponder + Brainstorm + Impulse: I see only lands. First time in my life. Dead for Pact of Negation.

G2: Lost an amazing counter war. He stops my Defense Grid two times and Jace destroys me. He was probably the best player I've played with in my life.

　

Round4 vs Food Chain 2-1

G1: I go off turn 3 (protected) and win with Emrakul.

G2: I make a big mistake. My fault.

G3: I go off turn 4 (with Boseiju) playing Cunning Wish and winning with Emrakul.

　

Round5 vs Patriot 2-0

G1: Turn 3 kill.

G2: Turn 3 kill.

　

Round 6 vs UW Control 1-2

G1: Turn 3 kill with Boseiju.

G2: I go off in turn 3. I have Force of Will, Show and Tell, 2 Omniscience and Emrakul. Show resolves. He drops Humility. Found nothing for the next 3 turns. Then I die.

G3: I black out and loose. I was still thinking about Humility on G2. My mistake.

　

Round 7 vs Team America 2-0

G1: Win on Turn 3.

G2: Win on Turn4. Misdirection is God.

　

Round 8 vs Lands 2-0

G1: Win on Turn 5 or 6 (2 Rishadan Port slows me down).

G2: Win onTurn 3 or 4.

　

I'm playing only Omnitell and Sneak and Show. At this moment I think that Omni is much better. Wasteland is not a problem and it's good against discard decks more than Sneak and Show.

I'm satisfied about my list. DTT is the best card in this deck.

The only doubt is about 1 Divert in the sideboard. Probably I will replace it for 1 Boseiju or something else. I really love the 1 Misdirection in side.

I'm a new player so probably I did many errors but thanks to my friends (Peter and Lino) I really improved very quickly.

Still really disappointed about that Turn 6.

Hope to improve for next tournament.

Congratulations! During the tournament, do you feel 2 pieces of victroy condition (1 Emrakul and 1 EtI) inadequate?

[Lans89]

Congratulations! During the tournament, do you feel 2 pieces of victroy condition (1 Emrakul and 1 EtI) inadequate?

Ofc it is, there are many ways to get there (cunning wish, DTT, cantrips). The only problem with this deck is getting Show and Tell + Omniscience together :P Especially when facing discard like Cabal Therapy! But since DTT I'd rather face discard than Meddling Mage...

[kuroko16]

Congratulations! During the tournament, do you feel 2 pieces of victroy condition (1 Emrakul and 1 EtI) inadequate?

I love both of them.

"When possible I prefer to drop Emrakul as a win-con in G1, so my opponents will side in some Ensnaring Bridges or similar. In G2 I will (most likely) go off with Enter the Infinite."

[zzregz]

***Kuroko

R3:
G1: the sequence of cantrips should be:
impulse - brainstorm (if you will return 2 cards that you dont need) - ponder
Or
Impulse - ponder - brainstorm
Theres a high chance that you can get card that you need. Remember that uw* control is our archenemy so its very important to sequence our cantrips.

R6:
G2: When you cast emrakul for free because of omniscience the additional turn will trigger (just like cascade the spell is not yet resolve but a ability already triggers). You could have an additional turn. Remember that every turn is important this kind of matchup...


:)

[Windmill]

I noticed that no one here seems to run lotus petal. You guys don't feel that it makes your Reanimator match-up worse? I feel like in that match-up the only way to have a chance is to jam S&T before they get their Grisely online.

Can someone please also tell me their sideboarding for the following match-ups:

* Reanimator
* Tin-Fins
* Show & Tell
* Omnitell/mirror
* Miracles
* BUG

Thanks :)

I kind of like the idea of running more than 1 Emrakul, just because ETI is a bit more risky against a counter-heavy deck. I mean, if you drop Omniscience using Boseiju then you can cast Emrakul uncountered and attack on your free turn, forcing them to sac 6 permanents. That would almost always be game. It seems good against opposing S&T decks and any other counter-heavy deck. Whereas, if you use Boseiju to cast S&T and go the Release the Ants victory route, you just move the counter way to Cunning Wish or ETI.

Also, does anyone have any recommendations of how to fit 4 leylines in the sideboard while having defence grid? Is that even possible?

[Tokugawa]

I noticed that no one here seems to run lotus petal. You guys don't feel that it makes your Reanimator match-up worse? I feel like in that match-up the only way to have a chance is to jam S&T before they get their Grisely online.

Can someone please also tell me their sideboarding for the following match-ups:

* Reanimator
* Tin-Fins
* Show & Tell
* Omnitell/mirror
* Miracles
* BUG

Thanks :)

I kind of like the idea of running more than 1 Emrakul, just because ETI is a bit more risky against a counter-heavy deck. I mean, if you drop Omniscience using Boseiju then you can cast Emrakul uncountered and attack on your free turn, forcing them to sac 6 permanents. That would almost always be game. It seems good against opposing S&T decks and any other counter-heavy deck. Whereas, if you use Boseiju to cast S&T and go the Release the Ants victory route, you just move the counter way to Cunning Wish or ETI.

Also, does anyone have any recommendations of how to fit 4 leylines in the sideboard while having defence grid? Is that even possible?

IMO, improve a 10%-90% unfavorable matchup to 20%-80%, do not worth the maindeck slots. If you really need to fight Reanimator...maybe splash B would help?

[kuroko16]

Also, does anyone have any recommendations of how to fit 4 leylines in the sideboard while having defence grid? Is that even possible?


it is possible. Drew Levin sideboard

Sideboard

3 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Intuition
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Release the Ants
1 Rushing River
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Trickbind



Abut Leyline There are a lot more problems with Leyline of Sanctity than benefits,

[Mackan]

Here's some more random findings from ~20 matches on modo with the black splash. Most cards are set in stone and I've just been toying around with a few slots. The cards not brought up in the mess to follow are cards I haven't changed my mind about in a week or two...

Speed is an important factor. Emrakul turn 2-3 is a lot better than turn 3-4 (or turn 15 for that matter). Speed comes at a cost and in our case we can adjust it by including/excluding manasource like Lotus petal, Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors in our manabase. When adding black I removed one of my two Ancient tombs for a total of 3 Sol-lands. I was pretty happy with the result but in my latest list I chose to include a few probes on top of the thoughtseize which made me more comfortable with another City of Traitors over the last Ancient Tomb still in my deck. I am going back and forth on Lotus Petal and I don't really want them to be good but I am surprised of how often they bail me out. Not only great to enable DTT but also additional ways to win once it resolves.

I still struggle with the fact that we are only allowed to run 4 show and tell and 4 Omniscience. Sometimes it's hard to find and resolve both pieces so what can we do to increase the chances?
We are not allowed to play more than 4 of each so we can dismiss that :(

Here are FOUR ways:

1) play more protection. Either by slowing our opponent down or by protecting the pieces from counterspells or discard we are more likely to go off in time.

I like Thoughtseize.
I've been VERY happy with thoughtseize so far as it attacks hate in a unique way. It's an excellent card versus Flusterstorm, Xantid Swarm and Oblivion Ring in a way that no counterspell can match.
I will continue with 3 discard and 3 Flusterstorm and 4 Force of will for now.

2) play more cantrips. Increasing the velocity of the deck will allow you to see more cards. We allready run 12 and step from Preordain/Ponder to Portent is huge :/

I like Gitaxian Probe.
Right now I am trying to fit as many Gitaxian Probes as possible. These are great with DTT but to much life-loss can be frustrating if we also chose to Include Thoughtseize and Ancient tomb.

I did not like Sensei's Divining Top.
Because of how important DTT is we want our cantrips to end up in the graveyard and we also prefer if they cost 1 mana. SDT slows us down a lot, even as a 1-of. However IF discard becomes more common I can see running 1-2 in my sideboard for the same reasons some storm decks have them. It's just a fact that it's hard to win when we are allways hellbent (unless we resolve DTT)

3) play more tutors. If we can pick the card we want everything is great. Unfortunatly all tutors in legacy comes with a drawback...

I did not like Personal Tutor.
I found it only to be good turn 1-2 against decks with little or no interaction as it would help me set up show and tell for the next turn. It doesn't do more than that as I don't even run Enter the infinite. All it can find is either show and tell, ponder, preordain or thoughtseize. It's also unable to find the other combopieces in Omniscience and Emrakul. My conclusion is that I rather take a sour loss every ten games against these decks, which are all good matchups, than to run an actual mulligan in matchups where every card matters. Accepting the fact that omnishow sometimes poops on me has been a very important lesson to learn. It has helped me in tuning the deck with a clear mind, and to make better mulligan decisions. IF the local metagame is all elves or burn I can see including PT in my sideboard but as for now I am happy without it.

I did not like Lim-Dul's vault.
Overall I like LDV more than Personal Tutor but it's still not worth the card-disadvantage.

I kind of like Intuition.
Every tutor in legacy has it's own weakness, including Intuition. This is a big reason to why I rather max out on cantrips than to play with tutors. But If I want to add a "fifth" Snt/Omniscience I would play with Intuition. It can fetch any part of the combo (or even protection) at instant speed. This is huge. It costs 3 which is a mana more than I would like, but we can't have everything. Adding 2 additional cards in the graveyard is a two-edged sword. It "thins" the deck and it reduces the casting cost of Dig through time. Unfortunatly these 2 cards are allways going to be the best 2 cards in your deck if the attempt to go off for some reason fail, either by counterspells, vendilion clique or surgical extracion. In the grindier matchups and when you fear surgical extracion/extirpate Intuition will therefor allways be sided out (most likely for a DTT) and not something we would want to wish for unless desperate. When considering Intuition we have to take this into account which reduces it's overall usefullness by a lot. I am 100% certain I want 4 DTT somewhere in my list and if I was going to play Intuition I would not run more than 1 because of how often it's sideboarded out and how terrible the second Intuition is allways going to be. DTT and Intuition both serve a similar role in the deck as both are "gas" when you cunning wish pre-combo. Including Intuition in the sideboard open the possibility to put all 4 DTT in the main, if we want. I am not sure If I like 3DTT/Int+1DTT or 4DTT+1Int more but if I am allways going to sideboard Intuition out I think the first setup would be better. I get the feeling that cunning wish for intuition for show and tell is to slow. Wish->DTT with 6 cards in the graveyard makes it possible to go off a turn faster.

4) Play more raw CA. If we play stuff like Jace or Predict we can overcome opponent's trading 1for1.

I did not like Predict.
Don't get me wrong Predict is still a great card and getting rid of a blank (for delve!) while drawing 2 at instant speed for only 2 mana is a great deal in Legacy. It's just not what this deck needs. We have DTT allready and instead of fighting on the 1for1 axis we must protect our kill and fight over what matters. Omnishow is sometimes a control deck but it's important to know when to switch roles and go combo. Sometimes your opponent is ahead on cards but a lot of them doesn't matter so Predict was not the beast I was hoping for.


The sideboard.

I kind of like Jace, but not enough (breaks my heart).
In some matchups Jace is better-than-all as not only does he provide CA (like Predict) but he is a win-con on his own. With the addition of Thoughtseize to the deck I no longer fear going off with show and tell the way I did before which now makes Jace less needed. I am no longer as scared of Ashen Rider or Iona. So i cut him from my sideboard.

I did not like Leyline of Sanctity
I wanted to try it for 2 reasons. 1) fast combo. Having leyline in play for 0-mana buys a huge amount of time. 2) protection against discard from various decks.
1) vs combo, like ant/belcher/tes, we have enough interaction allready (especially with the black splash) and also a turn2-3-4 kill. We also "just" blank their discard and tendrils/belcher but not ETW. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, with the black splash we are pretty much pre-boarded vs other combo and the leyline-lottery is not needed.
2) vs tough tempo/midrange black decks, most likely bug-delver or grixis-pyromancer, we can't afford to draw a blank in the mid-game and we also still need to fight their counterspells. Leyline would be great against pox or burn but but that's not a big enough part of the metagame. Without the black splash I can see leyline of sanctity beeing nice to up the % vs storm.

I don't like Defense Grid, but sometimes it's the best card in the sideboard.
Flusterstorm is becoming more and more played. Red elemental blast is also having a resurgence (mostly because of this deck, honestly). Even if RUG is not a big player of the metagame the overall hate for our deck has gone up and will continue to go up which is why I put Defense Grid back in the deck.

I don't Like Vendilion Clique.
It's upside vs combo compared to Jace is not relevant enough to include it as an alternative win-con. Running thoughtseize allready gives us this angle of attack.

I don't like Surgical Extraction
I just want to mention that I cut it from my list some time ago. At first glance it seemed like a must to have graveyard hate as a wish-target. Surgical is not powerful enough and wishing for it turn 3 is often to late vs dredge/reanimator anyways. I replaced it with a second Grafdigger's cage.

I love Massacre.
Nuff said.

I don't really like Hurkyl's recall.
It's a powerful effect but not needed as often...

I like echoing truth.
We must have a catch-all bounce and the others options, including rushing river, costs an additional and important mana.

Cards on my list to test (sideboard).
Notion Thief (GOTCHA!)
Thoughtseize (the 4th)
noxious revival (I probably should...)
Nihil Spellbomb (value over power compared to cage?)
Ravenous Trap (it's probably a meta-call vs dredge as it's not a good hatecard vs reanimator).
Misdirection (A more loopsided Flusterstorm. if we chose to include 4 Flusterstorm maindeck this can be an alternative to Swan Song).
Boseiju main (How often is this worth it? the upside is huge but it's also a cipt land that shock you...)
Swamp sideboard (with 2 underground sea main I can see this happening but what I found vs tempo (which is the reason to run a basic) I could allways "use" the swamp to pay for daze so even if I can't play my cantrips of a swamp, it's still usefull in both casting my big spells and to protect me from taxing counters)
Another/additional wincons... firemind's foresight, release the ants, enter the infinite... I don't think we need anything else but good ol' Emrakul. Now matter how you do it you need another slot in the list. Is the additional angle worth that?


With all that said. This is the list I'll play at our LGS tonight!

CREATURES (2)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Omniscience
SORCERIES (17)
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
INSTANTS (17)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Flusterstorm
ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Lotus Petal
LANDS (18)
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Eladamri’s Call
2 Massacre
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Trickbind
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dig Through Time
2 Defense Grid
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl’s Recall

edit: random things.

[Windmill]

I don't actually play Omnitell yet, I'm just theorizing. But I suspect that I'm going to be running the deck with Emrakul being the win-con usually, and Release the Ants as a secondary win-con. There are lots of scenarios where I can imagine that winning that turn is very important.

I think I will however try and win with Emrakul usually because in conjunction with Boseiju it seems very back-breaking for blue-based decks that don't run Wasteland. So Miracles, Sneak & Show, U/R Delver and Merfolk (though as an old Merfolk player, this deck seems very resilient against them if you just have enough mana for their taxing counters). Uncounterable Show & Tell followed up by a uncounterable hard-cast Emrakul to annihilator 6. Against something like though D&T I *think* I'd rather sculpt my hand and set it up to win that turn. And against UWR Delver I'd like to have an out for their Meddling Mage (name S&T? Wish for pact/bounce. Name Wish? I'll play Emrakul).

I can imagine also that playing a sol land is a good way to bait out the wasteland from a BUG player, and they tend to play 2-3 Wasteland's these days, so if you use one of them up, your Boseiju is likely to stick and they don't have good answers to a hard-cast Emrakul either.

[Tokugawa]

Against merfolk, Boseiju would immediately be victim of their wastelands. We can't untap it the same turn we landed.

If they chose the Cavern-chalice, non-wasteland build…that's easier for us.

[KobeBryan]

Against merfolk, Boseiju would immediately be victim of their wastelands. We can't untap it the same turn we landed.

If they chose the Cavern-chalice, non-wasteland build…that's easier for us.

untrue.

Merfolk no longer runs wastelands.

its 4 caverns, 4 mutavaults, 12 islands. if there is standstill, it would be 4 caverns, 4 mutas, 3-4 mishras, then islands.

[Windmill]

I can 100% imagine running into a Merfolk player playing Wastelands though. A lot of players don't keep up with the competitive scene. When I go to GPs and play in the side events I'm always amazed at the strange cards I see players playing. If you do see a Cavern though it is a good sign that the player isn't using Wasteland if you're unsure.

If the Merfolk player wastelands the Boseiju it is hardly the end of the world since that would leave the sol lands untouched, which negates half their counters anyway. As a Merfolk player I always HATED Omnitell. If they sculpted their hand (and they had at least 4 turns before I killed them) to have 2 counters and enough mana to overcome Daze or Cursecatcher, I was just screwed.

[Lans89]

I've seen a list online with a red splash. Not for Burning Wish, but with 2 volcanic main and side 1 Through the Breach (so you can win after cunning wish if Show and Tell is extract or vs Sneaky Show for example), 2 Red Elemental Blasts and 3 Pyroclasm (I guess 2 would also be OK). You can shave some cards in the sideboard + cut some of the removal already there. I think it can improve a lot of matchups, especially UWR. Blasts deals with counters, Meddling Mage and fast Delvers, the Pyroclasms kill almost everything. I also like the blasts in a lot of other matchups, like Miracles (my flusterstorms main won't counter Counterbalance :P). But, like with every splash, it makes the deck more funerable. But maybe a splash like this is worth the loss? I tried the black splash too, but prefer running Probes in the main..

[Mackan]

I played the list from my last post yesterday...I was pretty tired so I am not sure the games really happened the way I remembered them.

R1: Elves
This matchup is pretty much a race G1 and winning the die roll sure is nice. Omnishow is on average about a turn faster and and we also have disruption/protection. Barring some unlucky draws or the hateful Julian sideboard with 4x choke and 4x flusterstorm we should be fine. In this case my opponent had no interaction and I had a reasonable draw. The match was over in a couple of minuts so we player a few more games with me winning with 5 or 6-1. Sideboarding -1 flusterstorm -1 cunning wish +2 grafdigger's cage. Flusterstorm is still fine but I don't know what else to cut and unless i see discard or counterspells I rely on my cages to stop GSZ and NO.
2-0

R2: UB tezzeret
G1: The matches against Gottfrid are allways exciting. You never play against a known deck but rather the whole of legacy. If there's any weird (but nice) tech you can be sure to find it in his decks...
He won the roll and mulliganed to 6 for a turn 2 Chalice of the void which I forced. I played my second land and resolved some cantrips finding show and tell. He played mox diamond and mox opal allowing him to play a thirst for knowledge. I durdled some during my turn. He played Trinisphere which was fine since I was under no pressure and allready had half my combo in hand. I drew Emrakul and figured I should probably go for it. With trinisphere in play any counterspell was turned off. He only had 3 cards in hand so if he had ensnaring bridge it would still be ok and if he had exactly 2 lands + jace I would be doomed. He had neither but dropped a trinket mage for executioner's capsule. With trinisphere in play he did not have enough mana to stop my spaghetti from taking over.
I sided in echoing truth and dig through time over 2 gitaxian probes, trying to minimize the effect of chalice of the void and trinisphere as much as I could. Now I only had 18 1drops :P Hurkyll's recall is such an mvp so I figured I would never wish for DTT if I was given the option.
G2: I mulliganed a decent, but cantrip heavy, hand for fearing chalice of the void=1. I think I must have either force of will or any of the combopieces in hand to make it playable. Chalice shutting down 18 cards is far worse than an actual mulligan. I kept an average hand with a show and tell, 2 lands and 3 cantrips. He played Creeping Tar pit t1 and passed. I resolved a Preordain and found force of will. He played a Chalice of the void which I forced. He followed it up with Trinisphere which resolved. I spent my whole turn 3 on a preordain finding me Omniscience. I had 2 DTT in hand so if it wasn't for trinisphere I would probably have the kill that turn. I was under no pressure so I was fine passing and going off slowly with one spell a turn. Unfortunatly he played tezzeret, agent of bolas who would kill me the next turn. My only out was to draw Emrakul, which I did.
I am not sure what to think of this matchup. It seems very loopsided. Sometimes he can shut my whole hand down turn1 and sometimes I just have the protected kill before he can really do anything. Given that we play a combodeck and play against a deck with the stax pieces AND flusterstorm/force of will it's probably unfavored but not by as much as for other combo. After the game he showed me some spicy 1ofs that would've wrecked me, including the abyss.
2-0

R3: Goblin Prison
I had a very good opener and killed him turn 3.

I thought about siding in massacre to deal with most of his treaths but BB vs 8 moon effects is far too optimistic. I sideboarded the same as I did vs UB Tezzeret. I kept all wishes not because I must have hurkyl's recall but because I want to have access to trickbind if he has stingscourger. Normally I want 1 DTT in the sideboard as a way to wish for gas pre-SnT but in this matchup I wanted all DTT in the deck. I put a lot of hope in finding the win with DTT once I have Omniscience and my opponent has either chalice of the void=1 or a sphere-effect in play. There's not enough time to set up a wish->dtt->win.
I had to remind myself that sometimes it's good to play cantrips into chalice just to make DTT cheaper. It's against all kind of value so I often miss this line.

g2: He played an early thorn of amethyst which happened to be very annoying. He followed that up with a Goblin Rabblemaster and attacked me for 1. I had played some cantrips and my hand was echoing truth, show and tell, omniscience, cunning wish and 2 DTT but I only had 4 mana available. I could buy myself some time with echoing truth on the tokens or I could bounce the thorn of amethyst. Only problem with the latter was that he would put it back in when I play show and tell. My plan was to show and tell next turn and just put Omniscience into play, then during my next turn I could bounce the thorn and Dig for emrakul. The following turn my opponent tapped out chalice of the void on 2 stopping both echoing truth and hurkyl's recall. He attacked me for 6 meaning I would be dead in two turns. He only had one card left in hand and even though my bounce was shut off I would still see 15 cards the next turn, hopefully finding emrakul. His last card was Siege Gang Commander which he put into play and killed me.

g3: I keep a nice turn 3 hand with o protection. He plays a Chalice of the void=1 and pass. I draw force of will, play a land and pass he plays some threat which I force pitching a cantrip. Turn 3 I play show and tell and put omniscience into play. He put put a sienge-gang commander into play. I resolve 2 DTT but because of Chalice of the void the only thing to take are 2 force of wills a land and a cantrip... He attacks with SCG and play something which I force using Omniscience. I draw a Ponder for my turn and immidiatly slam it on the table hoping he would forget the chalice, he don't. Next turn he play something and I force it using Omniscience, he attacks for 5 threating lethal next turn. I draw a cunning wish and since he is on 14 life from using Ancient tomb I kill him with emrakul.

I clearly got a bit punished for having my hate cost 2 mana. If I had Rebuild and not hurkyl's recall I could resolve it through Chalice=2 but at the same time I would have more problems resolving it through the sphere-effects anyway (Lodestone, thorn, thalia etc). It seems more logical to have the cunning wish target cost the as cunning wish as not to spread the mana costs when facing chalice of the void. I still think that IF the opponent has the opportunity he would play the chalice for 3 and that would stop both my combo and my hate. In the dark chalice of the void=2 is terrible against us and the only reason to play it is if your opponent know the exact list AND allready have a chalice=1 in play. I am not sure if either hurkyl's recall or rebuild belongs in the deck at all but I've been facing a lot of chalice decks lately.... Goblin Prison, UB tezz, sylvan plug are all reasonable decks in the meta. I'll keep it for now.

R4: BUG midrange
he curves DRS into Dark Confidant and I think about forcing it. I don't force it reasoning that he probably has a lot of terrible cards g1 against Omnishow (swords to plowshares, abrupt decay etc) so I better save the force of will for something important. I think he plays some discard but I am not sure. I resolve the win the following turn.

I sideboard nothing, thinking about the 4th flusterstorm but decide not to.

G2: He mulligan to 5 and my 7 is nice. He plays Ponder turn 1. I play Island and pass. He thoughtseizes and I brainstorm in response. Brainstorm, Gitaxian probe, 2x emrakul, 2x Omniscience and lands (one of which is a fetch). This was a pretty tough brainstorm. The best card in hand is Brainstorm but if I hide it on top of my deck he can discard Emrakul and I have to shuffle it away. To me the worst card is clearly the second Omniscience so I want him to take that but still have acces to the other. I know that he plays Liliana in the list so If I make him think I hid a show and tell on top (which is a reasoanble assumption) he would ignore emrakul and go for Omniscience so therefor I put Omniscience and Brainstorm back on top. He discarded the Omniscience and during my turn I probed seeing Liliana, force of will, golgari charm and another thoughtseize. I played a land and passed. He thoughtseized me and I brainstormed in response, drawing 2 lands and a flusterstorm which I used to counter the thoughteize. He plays liliana. I drew a Ponder for the turn and used it to Shuffle into force of will and pass the turn. He ticked Liliana up leaving him with force of will and golgari charm in hand. I drew a show and tell for the turn and played it to put Omniscience into play with a Force of will for his golgari charm and a land to discard from Liliana. He drew a blue card and forced my force. With a liliana in play I think it was correct to go for it in that situation.

G3.
I don't remember the rest of the game but I remember Forcing a Sylvan Library and the deciding point when I misplay. I have perfect information from a probe seeing Daze and a Liliana as the only relevant cards. I Ponder into brainstorm and look at the following cards: 2X emrakul, show and tell, Omniscience, 2x polluted delta and city of traitors. In play I have 2 tapped Island. I haven't made my landdrop for the turn. I know I want to put the second emrakul back but before thinking I put the city of traitors under it. I play the Polluted Delta an pass. He drops Liliana and I realize my mistake. My hand is now emrakul, polluted delta, show and tell, and omniscience. He ticks her up and I am forced to discard emrakul...to be able to pay for Daze. I shuffle my deck and draw a Preordain in my drawstep. I play my fetchland, show and tell omniscience into play and bottom both with preordain, drawing a land. He topdecks golgari charm to kill Omniscience and I lose a few turns later for not finding DTT. If I had thought things through I would've realized that I needed 2 mana but could not afford to get that from 2 cards. I wouldn't even expose myself to wasteland as I could've just passed the turn.

This matchup feels pretty bad overall but I am sort of glad that a misplay cost me the game. More often than not this is not the case with the deck as either your hand is either unbeatable or terrible... It's pretty boring in that sense.

edit: some lines made no sense so I adjusted them to be closer to what actually happened...

[Windmill]

I've seen a list online with a red splash. Not for Burning Wish, but with 2 volcanic main and side 1 Through the Breach (so you can win after cunning wish if Show and Tell is extract or vs Sneaky Show for example), 2 Red Elemental Blasts and 3 Pyroclasm (I guess 2 would also be OK). You can shave some cards in the sideboard + cut some of the removal already there. I think it can improve a lot of matchups, especially UWR. Blasts deals with counters, Meddling Mage and fast Delvers, the Pyroclasms kill almost everything. I also like the blasts in a lot of other matchups, like Miracles (my flusterstorms main won't counter Counterbalance :P). But, like with every splash, it makes the deck more funerable. But maybe a splash like this is worth the loss? I tried the black splash too, but prefer running Probes in the main..
The double green may make it very difficult to cast and no one has ever considered it seriously so there must be a reason, but instead of Through the Breach I feel like Eureka would fit better in the deck? The reason being that it has better synergy with the Omnitell gameplan of comboing out. You get to start, so you start with Omniscience and then combo out at instant speed before they get their turn to put stuff into play. Through the Breach turns us into a very bad Sneak Attack deck imho.

[Lans89]

The double green may make it very difficult to cast and no one has ever considered it seriously so there must be a reason, but instead of Through the Breach I feel like Eureka would fit better in the deck? The reason being that it has better synergy with the Omnitell gameplan of comboing out. You get to start, so you start with Omniscience and then combo out at instant speed before they get their turn to put stuff into play. Through the Breach turns us into a very bad Sneak Attack deck imho.

Nah it's just a 1-off 'option' in the side. You might use Breach just as much as some of the other narrow sideboard cards. It only works with 2/3 Emrakul I guess, and I always played with 1. So I guess it isn't what I'm looking for. But it was more about the other red options, the counter/removal suite, something that green doesn't offer us. Only black and red seem to be correct to splash. Most people think that red is an option for Burning Wish, but I wanted to show that it could be a pure sideboard splash also.

[YamiJoey]

It seems infinitely worse than a Wish build at that point. My only Red cards are 4 Burning Wish, targets for it, and the occasional extra Pyroclasm and Red Blasts. Wish provides protection against Extraction effects, but also increases your overall threat density, and provides you with main-deck answers to many of yoir problems.

[Lans89]

It seems infinitely worse than a Wish build at that point. My only Red cards are 4 Burning Wish, targets for it, and the occasional extra Pyroclasm and Red Blasts. Wish provides protection against Extraction effects, but also increases your overall threat density, and provides you with main-deck answers to many of yoir problems.

So just a 2 Volcanic splash for REB and Pyroclasms in the sideboard is bad? While agreeing that they are awesome vs fast delvers, meddling Mages, Counterbalance and help vs many other things? Can you even fit those in your BW build =)?

I kinda like it. But unlike vs UWR/grixis, vs BUG (or even RUG) delver the pyroclasms are difficult because they still have Tarmogoyf. But some people shave those down to 2, what do you think?

[Windmill]

Do you guys think there is even a point to running Enter the Infinite anymore? It feels like three Emrakul is the better plan. If you need to win at instant speed you can still use cantrips to put an expensive card on top and Release the Ants. Otherwise, you can just chain uncounterable Emrakuls and win that way. I just don't see what purpose Enter the Infinite plays anymore? Would appreciate any input, over at MTG Salvation they have been cutting it.

[Karhumies]

I played a tournament during the weekend and went 3-3 using a black splash. 2 game losses were due to my own misplays.

Wins against
- GWB goodstuff with spot discard, hymn, deathrite, tarmo

- Reanimator, he won game 1 with t3 Tidespout Tyrant bouncing my lands but post SB I crushed him

- UB midrange with Jace TMS, deathrite eating my grave so no DTT, spot discards

Losses against
- Jund discard / goodstuff with triple Liliana and deathrites eating my gy so I could not DTT. He used Goblin Rabblemaster as a clock. Dropped from Deathrite T2 that guy sure races us faster than a Tarmogoyf since we are in goldfish mode!

- bug delver, stifle + waste + spot discard + daze + deathrite eating the grave so no DTT was just brutal.

- death & taxes, last round I was out of top 8 and di not focus enough. game 1 fizzled my own combo when I should have won, game2 mana screw where triple cantrip did not find a third land for the SnT I had in starting hand.


All in all, I faced 5/6 decks with black spot discard and 4/6 decks with Deathrite Shaman. Cutting back on DTT due to opposing deathrites seems like a solid option IMO.

I loved
- MD Dream Halls, won me 3 games.
- SB Defense Grid, won me 2 games. Makes Dream Halls into a non-symmetric effect ftw. T2 D.Grid, T3 SnT into Dream Halls into EtI was enough to win.
- MD 1of Dark Ritual over Lotus Petal to help cast the Dream Halls
- SB Firemind's Foresight mini-loop

I hated
- MD basic swamp, it lost me 2 games (Stifled fetch to lock me out of U, not being able to Brainstorm + fetch 2 away with opening hand Swamp + fetch)
- MD Flusterstorm. Did not hit Liliana. Against half the decks it was a dead MD card since my opponents were heavily non-blue and non-storm. etc.
- MD 1of Personal Tutor, lost me 2 games where a cantrip would have been enough to keep on going. Terrible idea to run it.
- MD Echoing Truth, terrible idea to run it over Impulse "to save a SB slot". Never needed MD bounce with this deck, dead card.

Not sure about these
- MD Thoughtseize, 50% hit something useful, 50% I felt it should have been a cantrip instead. Seems meta dependant.
- MD UG Sea, was wastelanded multiple times. Not good if running Dream Halls, but probably playable if not running it. Faced 0 Blood Moon / Back to Basics.
- MD Boseiju, won me 2 games against Blue decks but lost me 2 games against Wasteland. Seems meta dependant.
- SB Rushing River, felt like a win-more
- SB Noxious Revival, felt like a win-more

I feel the deck archtype is strong overall but my last minute changes to deck list were all terrible and costed me heavily.

For the record,
1) I was running 1of Intuition SB with MD targets 2x Emrakul 1x EtI, opponents let me keep 1 Emrakul for casting and I shuffled the grave. I tried not to show this game 1 if possible in case they had Surgical in their SB.

2) My gy hate was 1-1 split cage and surgical. Surgical was not wishboard target. Reanimator typically runs E.Truth so double cage is not as valuable as diversified hate. My Reanimator opponent bounced my cage game 3 with E.Truth only to play straight into my Surgical after which I dropped the Cage back for match win.

[KobeBryan]

Do you guys think there is even a point to running Enter the Infinite anymore? It feels like three Emrakul is the better plan. If you need to win at instant speed you can still use cantrips to put an expensive card on top and Release the Ants. Otherwise, you can just chain uncounterable Emrakuls and win that way. I just don't see what purpose Enter the Infinite plays anymore? Would appreciate any input, over at MTG Salvation they have been cutting it.

Ensaring bridge. I know you have wipeaway, but if you have used it, you have no other strategy to go off on. Its only 1 card, so it hardly hurts you.

[Windmill]

Ensaring bridge. I know you have wipeaway, but if you have used it, you have no other strategy to go off on. Its only 1 card, so it hardly hurts you.
I guess my point was more than we've got so many cantrips which can manipulate the top of our library (brainstorm, ponder, preordain) and lots of high CC cards (Emrakul, Omniscience and Dig Through Time) do we need Enter the Infinite to begin with anyway? Is it realistic enough to cantrip your way into a high cc card on the top of your library in a pinch when you need to go off without hitting your opponent with Emrakul?

[Karhumies]

do we need Enter the Infinite to begin with anyway?
Dream Halls + EtI = you win
Dream Halls + Emrakul = you do not win

Simple as that.

[Tokugawa]

Dream Halls + EtI = you win
Dream Halls + Emrakul = you do not win

Simple as that.

But, Snt + EtI = do not win

Snt + Emrakul = (sometimes) win

Personally, I always feel unsecurity when directly Snt an Emrakul…

[Karhumies]

But, Snt + EtI = do not win

Snt + Emrakul = (sometimes) win

Personally, I always feel unsecurity when directly Snt an Emrakul…

No Dream Halls in 75, No B.Wish in 75, No Eureka in 75, Surgical Extraction to SnT = game loss.

[Mackan]

Surgical extraction will only kill you if you allready have Show and tell in your graveyard and you are unable to counter it. In almost every other scenario that surgical extraction is a mulligan.

You can play around Surgical Extraction by:
Delving the target away with DTT.
Target the Show and tell with your own surgical/Noxious revival.
With enough time it is also possible to hardcast Omniscience.

If you know your opponent is on the surgical extraction plan you can build a hand that wins on the spot and try to not expose yourself to discard spells before going off.

[zzregz]

Surgical extraction will only kill you if you allready have Show and tell in your graveyard and you are unable to counter it. In almost every other scenario that surgical extraction is a mulligan.

You can play around Surgical Extraction by:
Delving the target away with DTT.
Target the Show and tell with your own surgical/Noxious revival.
With enough time it is also possible to hardcast Omniscience.

If you know your opponent is on the surgical extraction plan you can build a hand that wins on the spot and try to not expose yourself to discard spells before going off.


Are you realy gonna target your SaT using your own Surgical? Or your just giving up? Seriously? Or your not familiar to the card?

[Quasim0ff]

Are you realy gonna target your SaT using your own Surgical? Or your just giving up? Seriously? Or your not familiar to the card?

I'm pretty sure he talks about an opponents Surgical.

[Julian23]

Are you realy gonna target your SaT using your own Surgical? Or your just giving up? Seriously? Or your not familiar to the card?

He is familiar with the card, but you might not be. If you counter your opponent's Surgical Extraction by targeting the targeted Show and Tell with your own Surgical Extraction, you don't have to find all the copies.

Choose target card in a graveyard other than a basic land card. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for any number of cards with the same name as that card and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library.

[Tokugawa]

Accurate explanation, Julian.

[Karhumies]

Surgical extraction will only kill you if you allready have Show and tell in your graveyard and you are unable to counter it.

True. A deck packing MD 1 mana target discard effects + (tax) counters to our SnT + SB Surgical Extraction is our worst enemy. Especially if the opponent goes first in g2/g3 and opens up with the spot discard. It can be game over on turn 1 for us.

[KobeBryan]

He is familiar with the card, but you might not be. If you counter your opponent's Surgical Extraction by targeting the targeted Show and Tell with your own Surgical Extraction, you don't have to find all the copies.

Choose target card in a graveyard other than a basic land card. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for any number of cards with the same name as that card and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library.

Thats a hardcore play.

How often does this ever happen.

[laserstone]

For those of you playing just 1 Emrakul, 1 Enter, how consistently are you able to find your wincons? I'm playing 1 Emra, 3 Enter, 1 Dream Halls, and I'm finding having Enter in hand super helpful. I have a lot of DnT and Maverick in my meta, so the black splash comes in handy.

I'd love some feedback on my list (mainboard and side), and what you'd recommend changing. I'd like to fit 3 Leyline into the board (for all the Shardless/BUG decks and Storm in the meta) but I'm not sure what to cut.

Here's my list:
Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants
1 Impulse
1 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will

Sorceries
3 Enter the Infinite
2 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments
4 Omniscience
1 Dream Halls

Artifacts
2 Lotus Petal

Lands
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Polluted Delta
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Flooded Strand
5 Island
2 Underground Sea

1 Sapphire Charm
1 Flusterstorm
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Rushing River
1 Intuition
2 Defense Grid
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Release the Ants
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Noxious Revival
2 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge

[Karhumies]

I'd like to fit 3 Leyline into the board (for all the Shardless/BUG decks and Storm in the meta) but I'm not sure what to cut.

1 Sapphire Charm
1 Flusterstorm
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Rushing River
1 Intuition
2 Defense Grid
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Release the Ants
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Noxious Revival
2 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge

Sapphire Charm, Flusterstorm, Massacre/Toxic Deluge/Slaughter Pact seems like 3 cards to cut for the Leylines.

Btw, I really like your MD.

[Windmill]

So I've been playtesting the deck trying to decide whether to build it, and I love it - I've decided to go for it. I personally don't like Enter the Infinite right now and am going to cut it from the deck. I've got three win cons which makes me very flexible. The downside is that since my plan is usually to attack with Emrakul, I can't play pacts. The hardest thing for me is finding Show & Tell. I feel like this deck would take a beating from Death & Taxes:

Play Omniscience and then play Emrakul, attacking for the win, usually chaining Emrakul's together in the process.
Play Omniscience and then DTT or Wish for Dig and cantrip chain my way through the deck, placing an Emrakul or Omniscience back on top of my library then wishing for Release the Ants for the win.
In a pinch or if I think I can get there, play Emrakul.
Here is my decklist, my sideboard could probably do with a lot of help:

Creatures
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants
3 Spell Pierce (in an unknown meta, two of these will be Flusterstorms)
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Intuition

Sorceries
4 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments
4 Omniscience

Lands
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All (in an unkown meta I'll go down to 1. In my meta I can get away with this due to a lack of Wasteland)
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
6 Island

Sideboard
1 Release the Ants
3 Defence Grid
2 Flusterstorm
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Dig Through Time
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
1 Intuition
1 Pongify

[YamiJoey]

Has anyone been interested in Crystal Vein? When you crack it to cast Dig, it is basically a Mishra's Workshop. (THE HYPER-BOWL!) I'm currently playing 2, w/2 Tombs. (With Boseiju in the board)

[KobeBryan]

Has anyone been interested in Crystal Vein? When you crack it to cast Dig, it is basically a Mishra's Workshop. (THE HYPER-BOWL!) I'm currently playing 2, w/2 Tombs. (With Boseiju in the board)

I have. Its better for me than city. And its like 1000x less in costs

[Karhumies]

my sideboard could probably do with a lot of help:

Sideboard
1 Release the Ants
3 Defence Grid
2 Flusterstorm
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Dig Through Time
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
1 Intuition
1 Pongify

What is the Hurkyl's for in the SB? If you don't necessarily need it, you could go MD -1 Preordain +1 Impulse (cmc2) and SB +1 Firemind's Foresight. That way, you can C.Wish for a F.Foresight mini-loop netting you 2 extra cards.

[zzregz]

What is the Hurkyl's for in the SB? If you don't necessarily need it, you could go MD -1 Preordain +1 Impulse (cmc2) and SB +1 Firemind's Foresight. That way, you can C.Wish for a F.Foresight mini-loop netting you 2 extra cards.



It depends on the meta using hurkyls recall for sb but it is good to decks that has chalice or trinisphere.

[Windmill]

What is the Hurkyl's for in the SB? If you don't necessarily need it, you could go MD -1 Preordain +1 Impulse (cmc2) and SB +1 Firemind's Foresight. That way, you can C.Wish for a F.Foresight mini-loop netting you 2 extra cards.
Recall is in there because there is a lot of MUD in my meta, unfortunately. But I do like Firemind's Foresight and will fit it in somehow, maybe take out one of my Flusterstorms and put it in, that way I can Release the Ants without it being so awfully clunky. I'd nab cunning wish (3cc) Impulse (because why not) and Brainstorm. I'd then dig for some high CC spell to put on the top of my library, and then Release the Ants them in the face with my second cunning wish :) thanks for the idea.

I'm also thinking of maybe taking out 3 defense grid and 1 dig and replacing it with 4 leylines? I don't know. I will test the BUG match-up and see.

So far I've play tested it quite a lot against the following decks:

Affinity (easy win)
Elves (win, but I need to go fast)
Burn (pretty easy win imho)
Reanimator (I got destroyed, shock horror)


I have. Its better for me than city. And its like 1000x less in costs
I think that I prefer City tbh because it enables T2 wishes and, importantly for me, intuition. I think you run a burning wish variant, right? If so having 3 mana on T2 isn't all that important to you is my guess. The cities are definitely making my wallet extremely sad, same with the leylines. Even worse are the flusterstorms. I can suck up paying $70+ for lands that enable cool amazing plays, but paying $70+ for what is usually just a worse version of spell pierce makes me sad, it is the thing I plan to pick up last.

[Karhumies]

Reanimator (I got destroyed, shock horror)


SB
1 Surgical
1-2 Grafdigger's Cage
(2 Defense Grid)

Bring everything in including Surgical, you are wasting 3 mana and a C.Wish otherwise for a free spell.

Mulligan into Surgical, Cage or FoW. If we are on the play, also S.Pierce or Flusterstorm or 1 mana black discard is OK. Without Cage or Surgical in hand, counter their first Entomb.

D.Grid is questionable. It prevents them from using free counters if they land Griselbrand from our SnT but it also makes it difficult to counter their combo attempt, so I would not like to land a Grid before Probing them.

Basically, they are faster than us but we have more counters. That's why our plan g2&g3 is to foil their first attempt, then go off ourselves before they can attempt combo 2nd time. They don't want to SnT vs us so they are kinda screwed if we land a gy hate.

Beware of Tidespout Tyrant and Iona @ blue.

EDIT:
Also play around Daze if you can afford it and Boseiju in SnT if you can since they don't run Wasteland. Dream Halls is a great card in this MU because traditional animator can not land Iona off of it and Tin Fins can not land Emrakul off of it. Making D.Halls very much skewed in our favor.

[Mackan]

SB
1 Surgical
1-2 Grafdigger's Cage
(2 Defense Grid)

Bring everything in including Surgical, you are wasting 3 mana and a C.Wish otherwise for a free spell.

Mulligan into Surgical, Cage or FoW. If we are on the play, also S.Pierce or Flusterstorm or 1 mana black discard is OK. Without Cage or Surgical in hand, counter their first Entomb.

D.Grid is questionable. It prevents them from using free counters if they land Griselbrand from our SnT but it also makes it difficult to counter their combo attempt, so I would not like to land a Grid before Probing them.

Basically, they are faster than us but we have more counters. That's why our plan g2&g3 is to foil their first attempt, then go off ourselves before they can attempt combo 2nd time. They don't want to SnT vs us so they are kinda screwed if we land a gy hate.

Beware of Tidespout Tyrant and Iona @ blue.

Normally vs reanimator you want to stop their careful study/entomb but with with a show and tell deck atleast I prefer to fight over the animate dead/reanimate/exhume instead. They normally can't afford to both have a fatty in hand for your show and tell aswell as a target to reanimate in the graveyard. I recently cut Jace which was otherwise a nice card against them... now I have to work for it by going off with omnishow and perfect information (so no ashen rider/tidespout tyrant) + emrakul in hand to ignore Iona/griselbrand. It's an uphill battle for sure but with 3 fluster 3 thoughtseize 2 cage 4 fow you have enough tools to slow them down and grind them out with DTT. I think it's correct to side in a Boseiju in the matchup.

[Karhumies]

Normally vs reanimator you want to stop their careful study/entomb but with with a show and tell deck atleast I prefer to fight over the animate dead/reanimate/exhume instead. ... with 3 fluster 3 thoughtseize 2 cage 4 fow you have enough tools to slow them down and grind them out with DTT. I think it's correct to side in a Boseiju in the matchup.

If you are not running seize in the list, fast Gitaxian Probe + SnT can work. Try to save the Probe for the SnT turn if possible to make sure they don't hide stuff with Brainstorm or draw into fatties with non-instant cantrips.

If you do get the Cage (or very fast SnT) into hand, you can let their Entomb resolve, play the cage and/or fight over their animation spell. If they go for the Entomb, chances are they don't have a fattie in hand...but there is also the possibility they have a fat but they lack a discard outlet.

Despite all this, Tin Fins can occasionally have very explosive openings with D.Rit, Entomb, Shallow Grave which are difficult to compete against.

[kkkant]

Hi, Im relatively new to the deck, but Im very much loving it. Last sunday I played it for the first time and did 7-0 at a local tournament (!!) with a pretty traditional list. My biggest doubts are on the sb anyway, so If someone can answer some of my questions or give me a hand I will appreciate it :)

Im playing the monoblue list. Although is has a little more trouble finding the combo pieces unnlike the UR/Grixis one, i think the ability to go off at instant speed with cunning wish/FF/Release the ants is AMAZING aggainst cards like Oblivion Ring, Ashen Rider, Qasali Pridemage, Vencer, etc.

Maindeck:
6 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
1 City of Traitors
2 Ancient tomb (thinking about switching both for crystal vein)
1 Boseiju

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dig Through Time (wouldnt go under 4)
1 Impulse

4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm

4 Cunning Wish
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
1 Emrakul

SB:
1 Iona (not really sure, but seems like a fine option to fasten up things aggainst some tough matches, like Elves, Burn, Reanimator or ANT)
1 Release the Ants
1 Fireminds Foresight
1 Eladamris Call
2 Massacre
2 Defense Grid
1 Noxious Revival (im guessing its good aggainst discard decks, right? and of course surgical extractoin and occasionaly reanimator/dredge/storm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Boseiju

Until this im pretty sure , but the doubts start here:
1 Rushing River - Why? This deck doesnt really suffer from permanent-based hate, except for meddling mage or an ocasional ethersworn cannonist, both which can be answered with massacre/echoing truth
1 Pact of Negaton - Do we ever side it in? Or its just for CW?
1 Saphire Charm - Idem rushing river. Is really 2 massacre and 1 echoing truth too little for a deck full of cantrips?
1 Swan Song - Seems like the only one that can really convince me here.
1/2 Grafdiggers Cage - I figure its great vs reanimator, ant and elves, but im not sure what to cut for it.
(Edit) Trickbind - Why do we ever want it in a monoU build? To spend a wish on it seems pointless since we can win at instant speed with Fireminds Foresight.

I dont think i want leylines anywere on the 75. Although they are great aggainst discard and storm, i think it takes too much space on the sb, and even then it has a random effect that can be terrible for us if we do not draw them on our starting hand. Besides, i think discard is not THAT good aggainst us, since we have brainstorm to protect our stuff, and dig through time to take advantage of it (and to save of from surgical extraction)

Ideas? Suggestions?

[pandaman]

Took Ub OmniManiac to the local 4-rounder last night and went 4-0.

List:

5 Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Dig Through Time

4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Enter the Infinite
3 Dream Halls
3 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Trickbind

4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm

Sideboard

1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Research//Development
1 Firemane's Foresight
1 Trickbind
1 Wipe Away
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Pact of Negation
1 Dig Through Time
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Swamp
2 Massacre
2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress

Round 1 v UB Reanimator. Win 2-1.

Game 1, I'm on the play, and he mulls to five. On his Turn 2 he plays Careful Study, discarding a Griselbrand, and on his Turn 3 he attempts to Reanimate it. I FoW, he FoWs back, and I use my second FoW. He then plays a second Reanimate, getting his Griselbrand. I go for it on my Turn 4, and he finds a Daze and Force off his draw 7. What a five carder!

Out: 3 Show and Tell. In: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Duress.

Game 2, I'm again on the play, and he mulls to six. He makes a lot of land drops and because he's not drawn much action I'm able to disrupt him with Thoughtseize, Flusterstorm, and Force of Will before going off.

Game 3, I'm on the draw, and we both keep our seven card openers. On his Turn 2 he gets a Tidespout Tyrant in the yard and we fight over some Reanimation, but I lose. Tidespout enters, but the last card in hand isn't a spell he can use to bounce one of my two lands. The next turn, I ram a Show and Tell. He doesn't have Iona, and I have Omni and EtI for the win.

Round 2 v BUG Delver. Win 2-1.

Game 1, I'm on the draw, and he leads with a Delver of Secrets. Although it doesn't flip for a couple of turns it's joined by a Tarmogoyf and a Deathrite Shaman to assist it in putting my life total under threat. I shuffle away a Ponder I should have taken a chance with because it had a USea in it and he had a Wasteland on the Board. I don't find an enchantment to put in with my Show and Tell and scoop in the face of lethal damage.

No board.

Game 2, I'm on the play, and I open a strong hand with permission, which is only missing one part of the combo. I use cantrips to find that missing part plus some land to play around his soft counters. I go off through his Force of Will.

Game 3, I'm back on the draw, but again open a strong hand with permission only missing one combo piece. Again, I find it and use a Flusterstorm to play through his Force of Will.

Round 3 v Shardless BUG

Game 1, I'm on the draw and commence looking for my combo. He plays a Shardless Agent on his Turn 3 blind-flipping a Hymn to Tourach, followed by another Hymn to Tourach on Turn 4. He also has a Force of Will for my Brainstorm in response to the second Hymn, forcing me to deploy my own Force of Will in response to try and protect at least some part of my combo. However, I then draw land, land, Flusterstorm, Flusterstorm and die. I did have a Dig Through Time in there, but he ripped a Jace and fatesealed it away.

No board.

Game 2, I'm on the play, and he's on a slow hand with no Hymns, thankfully. I get enough mana to play around some soft counters, and run through his Force of Will. He's still got one card in hand with a mana open (I put him on Flusterstorm) and tries to counter my Enter the Infinite when I only have two mana open by putting Flusterstrom and two copies on the stack. I pay for two copies and hardcast FoW to see off the third.

Game 3, back on the draw, and again I get to the stage where I have enough counterspells to go off. I play Show and Tell, have a FoW for his FoW, put my Omniscience down and then EtI. He has one card in hand, no mana open, so I figure I'm home. MINDBREAK TRAP! Was not expecting that. Fortunately for me, I had a Cunning Wish on top of my library from a Ponder the previous turn, and just draw and play it the next turn for the win.

Round 4 v Elves. Win 2-0.

Game 1 I'm on the play and keep SnT, Omni, EtI, Wish, Flusterstorm, Brainstorm, land. Because Elves is faster (in my opinion) I keep it hoping to Brainstorm into land on Turn 2. I don't, but fortunately he's on a slower hand too, so I SnT on my Turn 4 into Omni. RECLAMATION SAGE! Good hand against my deck, but I have a Cunning Wish to Trickbind the trigger for the win.

Game 2, I'm on the draw, with Duress, FoW, SnT, Omni, land, Dream Halls. I Duress a Natural Order and Force his Glimpse on Turn 2. Like a champ, I draw land, land, EtI and win on my Turn 3. Better lucky than good.

The deck is amazingly powerful even though I made a few identifiable mistakes. Will play again!

[Mackan]

A short report...
3-1:ed the legacy DE on modo today beating 2x uwr blade, ub gurmag angler beatdown (!?) and losing to burn (he had a fast start g1 and I mulled to 4 g2).
4-0:ed the LGS yesterday beating bug tempo (with sinkhole), 12post, uwr-blade and infect.
I had a session this weekend where I played about 30 games pre and postboard vs a competent infect player. The matchup is slightly unfavored and the die-roll matters a lot.
I switched the hurkyl's recall in my sideboard for a surgical extraction. Reanimator is having a resurgence and dredge is a bad matchup.
Also trying rushing river over echoing truth after discussing it a bit with Lejay.
Overall pretty happy with the deck. Sorry for the brief report... If you have any questsions feel free to ask :-)

[KobeBryan]

I'm playing a blue/black build with discards over flusterstorm.

I'm finding i don't really need defense grid all too much. How are you guys feeling about this card.

There's discard in the meta now that I feel maybe more counters/divert/misdirection is better than defense grid.

[pandaman]

Mackan, what was your list for those tournaments?

[Mackan]

I'm playing a blue/black build with discards over flusterstorm.
I'm finding i don't really need defense grid all too much. How are you guys feeling about this card.
There's discard in the meta now that I feel maybe more counters/divert/misdirection is better than defense grid.

To me this is a very intresting topic. Right now the ONLY archetypes I feel slightly unfavored against are bug-delver, grixis midrange and reanimator. All packing both counterspells and discard, which makes our default line of defense with boseiju and defense grid less attractive. The same goes for Leyline of Sanctity which I talked about in a previous post. You don't want LLoS if they have their counterspell draw and you do not want the Defense grid if they go for discard. I had Jace, TMS in my sideboard to combat this but found him a bit slow. I've yet to find something I like to combat these decks. The sideboard is becoming pretty tight so we don't have space to fit everything we want. I think it's the correct assumption that we have to cut defense grid to make room for these counterspells (atleast in my list).

Additional counterspells seems a lot better vs these decks than defense grid. There are some things to consider. First of all, if we cut defense grid from the list and replace them with more of what we allready have we lose a whole angle of attack. Defense grid dodges flusterstorm and red elemental blast and it can also stop every piece of interaction during the turn when you go off (like multiple counterspells or vendilion clique. On paper Defense grid is perfect vs tempo strategies like RUG and pretty good vs control in general. It's lacking against decks where we would want to counterspell on their turn (infect and the mirror for example) and decks which have both discard and counterspells. So even though Defense grid has a unique and more powerful effect it's maybe not enough to compensate for the amount of UB/x and combo in the metagame.

So, which counterspell would be best for handling these type of decks? Overall reanimator/bug-delver/grixis delver are fast. I don't think we can afford to tap 2 mana for the actual Counterspell but sadly everything that costs 0 or 1 mana have their own built in weaknesses. Plus, we want Dig Through Time to be cast asap all the time. The cards below focus on these 3 decks.

Misdirection - Every card counts and we allready pack 4 force of will to help us get hellbent. I don't think I want Misdirection unless the metagame is full of hymn to tourach. The fact that a misdirected thoughtseize from the opponent most likely will not take a relevant card (as the opponent still chose) makes it even less appealing. It's a powerful effect though and pre-board it's a very wishable card. But it's not attractive enough imo.

Daze - A 2-of Daze in the 75 could be pretty good as it's very unexpected and powerful (yay, free spells!). Missing a land drop is not something we want though and Daze is bad defending against counterspells when we try to resolve a 3-mana spell (they will most likely be able to pay). If we were allways on the play It would be a strong consideration...

Disrupt - Maybe I am wrong but I think this card is pushing the greed to far. Paying 2 mana is not a lot... 1 mana even less so. Daze atleast can be played for free.

Spell Pierce - I am a bit allergic to taxing counters because it forces you to rush into a lot of situations as these cards drops in value as the game progress. Spell Pierce is a pretty underwhelming sideboard card unless we are terrified of sneak attack, Liliana or counterbalance I see it as a strictly worse flusterstorm (which is more of a hardcounter with the potential blow-out attached to it). We can't have more than 4 flusterstorm in the list though but I want a more powerful effect from a sideboard card.

Divert - This is something I like. It is more narrow than Spell Pierce but it's also a lot more powerful. Disrupting a discard spell and forcing them to discard a random card is actually pretty good. Sometimes we get the only blue card for force of will, sometimes we reduce their clock and besides, all of them play with 4 brainstorm. A bit of a gamble against reanimator to be sure...

Envelop - Only stops cantrips and discard. We want something that stops counterspells and discard.

Dispel - See above and think the other way around.

Swan Song - A nice topdeck, a 1 mana answer to all of our problems AND the upside of handling Counterbalance, Sneak attack etc. This is a STRONG candidate and I used to run it in my board as a wishable counterspell when I ran 4 Flusterstorm maindeck. It's pretty bad vs cabal therapy though...

Spell Snare. Stops some counterspells and discard in Counterbalance, Counterspell, Snapcaster mage and Hymn to tourach. Unfortunatly pretty poor overall vs the 3 decks we want to sideboard against (except for maybe reanimator).

Honorable mention, Dimir charm. Kills their hatebear and stops their discard. The flexibility is not worth the additional mana though.

Mental misstep - Please come back! :P

We could also include more discard ourselves to combat both their discard and their counterspells. This unfortunatly comes with other problems. I rather not play with more than 3-4 discard spells in my deck as they become pretty bad after a while when you draw too many of them. The manainvestment is also a big difference between discarding and counterspelling and answering spells on the stack is often a lot better. I also do NOT want be include more black cards in my way to fight BUG-delver. Wasteland is a real card and I don't want to be stuck without a blue source. This could easily happen if (when) I keep a 1-lander with or without a basic swamp in the deck. With just a few black cards it's ok to be unable to cast them in the early game. Discard spells are normally bad topdecks but to be fair the other cards on this list are too so if the options aren't there it's atleast worth a shot. The 3 thoughtseize in my list I think is enough to provide a most excellent angle of attack to deal with flusterstorm, hatebears and other combo without having to many difficulties in drawing multiples or not beeing able to cast them.

Conclusion. Given how the meta is not very full of RUG and that we don't have a sideboard-plan against 2 of our 3 most feared matchups (reanimator we atleast got "covered") it is safe to assume we can cut Defense Grid in favor of a defensive, low cmc, card to deal with opposing counterspells AND discard. I think the Safest bet is to play Swan Song in this slot. The other realistic options are all taxing effects and personally I think it's a good habit to avoid those in a combo/control deck.

How much disruption could we actually include? I fear we are pretty close to over-sideboarding.


Mackan, what was your list for those tournaments?

Here's my list.

CREATURES (2)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Omniscience
SORCERIES (17)
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
INSTANTS (17)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Flusterstorm
ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Lotus Petal
LANDS (18)
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Eladamri’s Call
2 Massacre
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Trickbind
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dig Through Time
2 Defense Grid (will try 2 Swan song moving forward)
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Rushing River (or echoing truth)
1 Surgical Extraction (or hurkyl's recall)

How do you like your list? It looks pretty perfect as far as Dream halls builds go:)
Did you try without it too?

I want more consistency in my list but from previous testing I found that Dream halls was to slow. I also tried it as a 1of in my sideboard but with thoughtseize In the deck I no longer fear to cast show and tell as much as before. Plus, playing with Dream halls would more or less force me to switch one emrakul for ETI. Show and tell for emrakul is surprisingly effective. Liliana, Jace and Karakas see very little play these days.

[pandaman]

I've always wondered why Cunning Wish is still in builds that don't use the sideboard to win. Couldn't it just get cut for three more manipulation spells, and then you just sideboard like a non-Wish deck? I've never tested it without (I run the Maniac win condition) but I think Wish would be my first cut if I did.

[Mackan]

What do you mean? Eladamri's call fetches Emrakul...

[KobeBryan]

To me this is a very intresting topic. Right now the ONLY archetypes I feel slightly unfavored against are bug-delver, grixis midrange and reanimator. All packing both counterspells and discard, which makes our default line of defense with boseiju and defense grid less attractive. The same goes for Leyline of Sanctity which I talked about in a previous post. You don't want LLoS if they have their counterspell draw and you do not want the Defense grid if they go for discard. I had Jace, TMS in my sideboard to combat this but found him a bit slow. I've yet to find something I like to combat these decks. The sideboard is becoming pretty tight so we don't have space to fit everything we want. I think it's the correct assumption that we have to cut defense grid to make room for these counterspells (atleast in my list).

Additional counterspells seems a lot better vs these decks than defense grid. There are some things to consider. First of all, if we cut defense grid from the list and replace them with more of what we allready have we lose a whole angle of attack. Defense grid dodges flusterstorm and red elemental blast and it can also stop every piece of interaction during the turn when you go off (like multiple counterspells or vendilion clique. On paper Defense grid is perfect vs tempo strategies like RUG and pretty good vs control in general. It's lacking against decks where we would want to counterspell on their turn (infect and the mirror for example) and decks which have both discard and counterspells. So even though Defense grid has a unique and more powerful effect it's maybe not enough to compensate for the amount of UB/x and combo in the metagame.

So, which counterspell would be best for handling these type of decks? Overall reanimator/bug-delver/grixis delver are fast. I don't think we can afford to tap 2 mana for the actual Counterspell but sadly everything that costs 0 or 1 mana have their own built in weaknesses. Plus, we want Dig Through Time to be cast asap all the time. The cards below focus on these 3 decks.

Misdirection - Every card counts and we allready pack 4 force of will to help us get hellbent. I don't think I want Misdirection unless the metagame is full of hymn to tourach. The fact that a misdirected thoughtseize from the opponent most likely will not take a relevant card (as the opponent still chose) makes it even less appealing. It's a powerful effect though and pre-board it's a very wishable card. But it's not attractive enough imo.

Daze - A 2-of Daze in the 75 could be pretty good as it's very unexpected and powerful (yay, free spells!). Missing a land drop is not something we want though and Daze is bad defending against counterspells when we try to resolve a 3-mana spell (they will most likely be able to pay). If we were allways on the play It would be a strong consideration...

Disrupt - Maybe I am wrong but I think this card is pushing the greed to far. Paying 2 mana is not a lot... 1 mana even less so. Daze atleast can be played for free.

Spell Pierce - I am a bit allergic to taxing counters because it forces you to rush into a lot of situations as these cards drops in value as the game progress. Spell Pierce is a pretty underwhelming sideboard card unless we are terrified of sneak attack, Liliana or counterbalance I see it as a strictly worse flusterstorm (which is more of a hardcounter with the potential blow-out attached to it). We can't have more than 4 flusterstorm in the list though but I want a more powerful effect from a sideboard card.

Divert - This is something I like. It is more narrow than Spell Pierce but it's also a lot more powerful. Disrupting a discard spell and forcing them to discard a random card is actually pretty good. Sometimes we get the only blue card for force of will, sometimes we reduce their clock and besides, all of them play with 4 brainstorm. A bit of a gamble against reanimator to be sure...

Envelop - Only stops cantrips and discard. We want something that stops counterspells and discard.

Dispel - See above and think the other way around.

Swan Song - A nice topdeck, a 1 mana answer to all of our problems AND the upside of handling Counterbalance, Sneak attack etc. This is a STRONG candidate and I used to run it in my board as a wishable counterspell when I ran 4 Flusterstorm maindeck. It's pretty bad vs cabal therapy though...

Spell Snare. Stops some counterspells and discard in Counterbalance, Counterspell, Snapcaster mage and Hymn to tourach. Unfortunatly pretty poor overall vs the 3 decks we want to sideboard against (except for maybe reanimator).

Honorable mention, Dimir charm. Kills their hatebear and stops their discard. The flexibility is not worth the additional mana though.

Mental misstep - Please come back! :P

We could also include more discard ourselves to combat both their discard and their counterspells. This unfortunatly comes with other problems. I rather not play with more than 3-4 discard spells in my deck as they become pretty bad after a while when you draw too many of them. The manainvestment is also a big difference between discarding and counterspelling and answering spells on the stack is often a lot better. I also do NOT want be include more black cards in my way to fight BUG-delver. Wasteland is a real card and I don't want to be stuck without a blue source. This could easily happen if (when) I keep a 1-lander with or without a basic swamp in the deck. With just a few black cards it's ok to be unable to cast them in the early game. Discard spells are normally bad topdecks but to be fair the other cards on this list are too so if the options aren't there it's atleast worth a shot. The 3 thoughtseize in my list I think is enough to provide a most excellent angle of attack to deal with flusterstorm, hatebears and other combo without having to many difficulties in drawing multiples or not beeing able to cast them.

Conclusion. Given how the meta is not very full of RUG and that we don't have a sideboard-plan against 2 of our 3 most feared matchups (reanimator we atleast got "covered") it is safe to assume we can cut Defense Grid in favor of a defensive, low cmc, card to deal with opposing counterspells AND discard. I think the Safest bet is to play Swan Song in this slot. The other realistic options are all taxing effects and personally I think it's a good habit to avoid those in a combo/control deck.

How much disruption could we actually include? I fear we are pretty close to over-sideboarding.



Here's my list.

CREATURES (2)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Omniscience
SORCERIES (17)
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
INSTANTS (17)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Flusterstorm
ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Lotus Petal
LANDS (18)
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 City of Traitors
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Eladamri’s Call
2 Massacre
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Trickbind
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dig Through Time
2 Defense Grid (will try 2 Swan song moving forward)
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Rushing River (or echoing truth)
1 Surgical Extraction (or hurkyl's recall)

How do you like your list? It looks pretty perfect as far as Dream halls builds go:)
Did you try without it too?

I want more consistency in my list but from previous testing I found that Dream halls was to slow. I also tried it as a 1of in my sideboard but with thoughtseize In the deck I no longer fear to cast show and tell as much as before. Plus, playing with Dream halls would more or less force me to switch one emrakul for ETI. Show and tell for emrakul is surprisingly effective. Liliana, Jace and Karakas see very little play these days.

I like your build.

I however run 1 firemind's foresight with 4 cunnings since FF usually gets you another cunning wish.

Nevertheless, I run an impulse which is a mini Dig.

I have been toying with the idea against the mirror and its Mind break trap as a 1 of in the board. It stops ANT and TES, which we have a problem with. It also stops flusterstorms.

[pandaman]

What do you mean? Eladamri's call fetches Emrakul...
But you run Emrakul main. It"s not like RtA or Maniac where the win is SB only. So why not cut Wish, go up to 4 Emrakul Main?

[pandaman]

For example, without Wish, you could run:

4 Emrakul
4 SnT
4 Omni
12 cantrips and 4 DTT
4 FoW
4 Flusterstorm
4 Thoughtseize
20 land

And then your sideboard gets more traditional.

[Tokugawa]

But you run Emrakul main. It"s not like RtA or Maniac where the win is SB only. So why not cut Wish, go up to 4 Emrakul Main?

Why not go up to 4 Emrakul and 4 Griselbrand main? Drawing ability of Griselbrand is absolutely awesome.:tongue:

[pandaman]

Why not go up to 4 Emrakul and 4 Griselbrand main? Drawing ability of Griselbrand is absolutely awesome.:tongue:
Are you being facetious?

[kkkant]

For example, without Wish, you could run:

4 Emrakul
4 SnT
4 Omni
12 cantrips and 4 DTT
4 FoW
4 Flusterstorm
4 Thoughtseize
20 land

And then your sideboard gets more traditional.


I dont hate the idea, having 4 emrakul gives you the option to SnT-> Emrakul a lot more often which is just fine vs a lot of matchups, the downsides of that are:
-Emrakul is a dead card in hand, where wish isnt at all
-automatically losing to ensnaring bridge (although not a popular maindeck option)
-not having the option to go off at instant speed (responding to a oblivion ring trigger, a pyroblast or a qasali pridemage, or even vs sneak and show or omniscience mirror who run burning wish instead of cunning)

Im running the 4 wishes 1 emrakul build, so there's no huge difference in the amount of combo pieces MD (-4 wishes -1 Impulse +3 Emrakul), nevertheless i consider it a very interesting idea, since it opens up 3 slots in the sb compared to the traditional version.

[Mackan]

@Mindbreak trap
It's not great at fighting discard but it's certainly worth mentioning when talking about counterspells. I will do some testing with it before I draw any conclusions but if it's there to beat storm I don't think it's not worth a slot. I did think about it some weeks ago but dismissed it because it's not as good vs storm as one might think. They usually discard your wishes before going off, or they go off before you reach 3 mana. With the metagame shaping up I think that in a few weeks Flusterstorm will be a staple in any blue deck, even maindeck, and MBT is fine against that and counterspell-wars in general. So it's perhaps not a strictly "anti-storm" card anymore. It's also one of the few ways we can answer a cast emrakul in the mirror. The "play 3 spells" is easy to play around for show and tell-based combo so perhaps it's too unreliable. I'll give it some testing though! I am still ONLY concerned about bug-delver, grixis control and reanimator.

@Firemind's foresight/Impulse/release the ants/research//development/lab man/(Enter the infinite)
As I see it there is no real reason not to trust Mr 15/15 Spaghetti. I played with Lab-man in my first list and kind of liked it, it's not very vulnerable to hate and it kills instantly. Sadly it also requires Enter the infinite in the list which is more or less just a worse card than Emrakul imo. Show and telling Emrakul is often enough and show and tell for Enter the Infinite is not. In a list with Dream Halls you need EtI as you can't play Emrakul off it anyways and I think pandamans list above is a very good example of a list like that. I am still not convinced we need Dream Halls (weird as it is, since it was even banned for a while...).

The Release the ants-kill makes us vulnerable to a lot of hate we otherwise ignore (Trinisphere, Thalia, Etherworn Canonist etc). As a complement to Emrakul it's a nice tech and we cover most hate in legacy with both angles. The ability to go off->release the ants with an oblivion ring trigger on the stack is good but is it worth the additional slots in the deck? I think Cunning wish->trickbind and get there with the rest of the hand is often enough, even if it requires another card. For scenarios when we go Snt->Omniscience and the don't put anything relevant into play we can almost allways win with Cunning Wish->Eladamri's call->Emrakul or Just Cunning Wish->Dig Through Time. Having the option of going Cunning Wish->Firemind's Foresight->Rta-kill does not come up often enough to be worth 2 sideboard slots imo (FF+RtA). Impulse MD is also worse than Gitaxian Probe. I rather die on the backswing after an emrakul attack (or try to bounce/slaughter pact an attacker) than play additional cards to cover a scenario that happens every 100 games. There's an emergency win available by just including a Release the Ants in sideboard and hope to get there of a cantrip but If I have Omniscience in play and a wish I would rather go for DTT in most scenarios. Sadly there is little upside of trying to cover all angles with the deck. The brute force of Show and Tell and Dig through time will win many, many games and making sure this happens I think is better than to get fancy.

@Emrakul 3-4
As much as I praised Emrakul above I think he comes with significant diminishing returns in multiples and I rather have virtual copies of more Emrakuls from Cunning Wish instead. Cunning Wish is not a great card but it's a lot better than Emrakul when drawn. I have been really happy with 2 Emrakul but I can see going down to 1 also even if it's a bit greedy. One is often enough but the second is there to give you an out when one hit is not enough (to compensate for the lack of Rta without playing the card in a way) and gives you another out to Grindstone for free. If you want more Emrakul I think it's better to play Sneak and Show instead. The beauty of Omnishow is that we run only about 10 combopieces (2 Emrakul, 4 SnT, 4 Omniscience) compared to S&S ~16 (4 Griselbrand, 4 Sneak Attack, 4 Emrakul, 4 Show and tell). Most redundant combopieces can also be pitched to Force of Will in Omnishow. Sneak and Show can only brute force their way to victory (and are a lot better at that than we are) but it comes with the downside of drawing Terrible cards in the mid/late-game where we find counterspells and DTT instead, taking the control role instead.

I played the list from my previous post in the Legacy DE yesterday and went 3-1

R1: Bug-Delver. I liked the addition of Swan song and even though I lost 1-2 I felt pretty good about the matchup. I won the first pretty easy and he put some early pressure and had the counterspells/discard to back it up in the second. I mulliganed to 4 in the decider before I found a land.

R2: Julian on elves
G1: was pretty close but Emrakul finished him and I went down to 2 on the backswing. G2: I had the t2 Emrakul with 2X fow backup... fun magic :(

R3: UR-blue moon. A friend of mine put together a very intresting list with counterspells and blood moon maindeck. G1 I thoughtseized him and saw a pretty weak hand which led me to force of will his brainstorm a few turns later before going off with perfect information. In the second game we played land go for a while before I found Boseiju which forced him to tap low for blood moon, unable to fight my counterspells.

R4: CalebD on Tin-Fins. He got an early Liliana into play (!) and I was forced to force a Shallow Grave that left me with no cards to go off. I brought a lot of cards from the sideboard and got him with Surgical Extraction in response to him trying to raise Griselbrand from the dead. The game went on for a while and I won the deciding counterspell war. G3: He put a liliana into play and later ultimated it on my 5 lands / 1 grafdigger's cage. I sacrificed the cage and force of willed his attempt to reanimate Griselbrand. He played Dark Confidant and I played another cage on my turn and Swan sung my own thoughseize to start the race. I had a few counterspells left and when I found show and tell->Omni->Emrakul a turn later I decided to go for it as I was maybe not winning the race anymore with a Children of Korlis joining Caleb's army the previous turn.

[Tokugawa]

Durward just released an article (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/tin-fins-ii-the-updatening/) this week, about fitting LotV into Tinfins decks...so it is possible to see him playing that version.

[Discus]

Hi Mackan,

How about 2 duress instead of swan song ?
It doesn't increase the delver's clock and can be casted before our big turn to save mana.
Sometimes, i stucked with too many counters than i can cast.
In other hand, duress isn't fully effective against opponent discard, but playing a noxious revival instead of cranial extraction is more resiliant against discard and can interact with reanimation spell too.

An other idea, but i didn't tested yet against delver, is a couple of repeal.
This card generating a huge tempo on fliped delver + cantrip and fill graveyard for DTT. It's flexible and can be used on an unexpected meddling mage.
But maybe it's too cute.

[Windmill]

I've been practising with this deck as much as I can since I'm still so new to it. Here have been my experiences so far pre-sideboard.

Burn: Winning 75% of the time. Occasionally I lose because I fumble and fail to find a Show & Tell in time. I usually can find some sort of thing to cheat into play since I'm running 7 of them, it is the Show & Tell that causes me the problems.

Big BUG: Did some small testing. Never had to face a Lily yet (phew!) but thoughtseize/Hymn hasn't actually been too bad for me. Noxious Revival is a pretty sweet card, I will say that. I've won each time I've played against Big BUG, but the sideboard looks horrific.

Miracles: Only played one game. I think I was going to win but I got really lazy and almost got blown out by a Vendilion Clique.

Elves: I felt confident in this match-up. I think we go about the same speed, but I have better interaction to slow them down. We played with sideboards too, and I didn't encounter any discard to be fair.

Infect: I punted pretty hard when playing this deck even in a pre-sideboard state. They just go so fast. I now know that I should counter the creatures over their pump spells. If we win the dice roll and can get a T3 combo I think we'll win, but if we lose the dice-roll then they can comfortably win on T3 a lot of the time it seems, whereas we only sometimes win on T3.

Thoughts: Deck is slow. Occasionally sure you'll have T2 blowouts, and T3 kills much more often, but still I see myself going to T4 a lot of the time. I can see that the deck has legs against Delver decks, miracles and decks that aren't combos. But against fast decks that pack interaction, it is pretty tough going. The main issue is that I struggle to find the right combo pieces.

I love DTT but can't rely on it when versing combo decks because it won't get me there fast enough, I can normally cast it at most T3 and then find myself dead T4...

Intuition is a great but very slow card. I still wouldn't mind trying to fit another one into my 60. I am very happy with the land.

Here is my current 75:

6 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 City of Traitors
2 Boseiju

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
4 Cunning Wish
4 Show and Tell
3 Dig Through Time

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce

4 Omniscience
3 Emrakul

SB:
1 Release the Ants
1 Fireminds Foresight
1 Eladamris Call
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dig Through Time
1 Trickbind
1 Intuition (thinking of removing this. Wishing for Intuition is SO SLOW and SO CLUNKY)
1 Pognify
~4 Flexi Spots

[kuroko16]

I've been practising with this deck as much as I can since I'm still so new to it. Here have been my experiences so far pre-sideboard.

Burn: Winning 75% of the time. Occasionally I lose because I fumble and fail to find a Show & Tell in time. I usually can find some sort of thing to cheat into play since I'm running 7 of them, it is the Show & Tell that causes me the problems.

Big BUG: Did some small testing. Never had to face a Lily yet (phew!) but thoughtseize/Hymn hasn't actually been too bad for me. Noxious Revival is a pretty sweet card, I will say that. I've won each time I've played against Big BUG, but the sideboard looks horrific.

Miracles: Only played one game. I think I was going to win but I got really lazy and almost got blown out by a Vendilion Clique.

Elves: I felt confident in this match-up. I think we go about the same speed, but I have better interaction to slow them down. We played with sideboards too, and I didn't encounter any discard to be fair.

Infect: I punted pretty hard when playing this deck even in a pre-sideboard state. They just go so fast. I now know that I should counter the creatures over their pump spells. If we win the dice roll and can get a T3 combo I think we'll win, but if we lose the dice-roll then they can comfortably win on T3 a lot of the time it seems, whereas we only sometimes win on T3.

Thoughts: Deck is slow. Occasionally sure you'll have T2 blowouts, and T3 kills much more often, but still I see myself going to T4 a lot of the time. I can see that the deck has legs against Delver decks, miracles and decks that aren't combos. But against fast decks that pack interaction, it is pretty tough going. The main issue is that I struggle to find the right combo pieces.

I love DTT but can't rely on it when versing combo decks because it won't get me there fast enough, I can normally cast it at most T3 and then find myself dead T4...

Intuition is a great but very slow card. I still wouldn't mind trying to fit another one into my 60. I am very happy with the land.

Here is my current 75:

6 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 City of Traitors
2 Boseiju

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
4 Cunning Wish
4 Show and Tell
3 Dig Through Time

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce

4 Omniscience
3 Emrakul

SB:
1 Release the Ants
1 Fireminds Foresight
1 Eladamris Call
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dig Through Time
1 Trickbind
1 Intuition (thinking of removing this. Wishing for Intuition is SO SLOW and SO CLUNKY)
1 Pognify
~4 Flexi Spots

my list is pretty equal. in main i use 1 boseiju 1 flusterstorm 1 Pact. you think spell pierce is better? never test

honestly boseju is a great card ( especially against miracles and uw control )

[Windmill]

Spell pierce is, purely a meta choice. I got a lot of MUD and Affinity running around so it means that spell pierce isn't a dead card game 1. Plus it deals with Lily too.

[KobeBryan]

I think the hardest matchups for this deck is anything with black and blue.

Between discard and counters, how do we board against them?

[Poron]

Bug is one of the worst matchups because of discards, Stifle and Wastelands (for Boseiju) as well as graveyard emptier like DRS.. fast clock as well with Delver and Tarmogoyf..

ah yes Dark confidant is a free card advantage with clock Liliana wrecks us and Vendilion Clique is great on Show and Tell.

I like bug infact

[pinkfrosting]

Leyline of Sanctity is always an option. It fell to the wayside during the UR delver meta because BUG was declining, but now that BUG is back on top I think it's a viable option again. Turns off therapy, lily, hymn, duress, thoughtseize, inquisition, and more. This deck is also very consistent at being able to shuffle away redundant copies.

[Esper3k]

Just a note, Leyline doesn't actually do much against Liliana. Her +1, which I think the deck cares more about, doesn't target.

[Windmill]

So let's say we have 4 sideboard cards to bring in against BUG (whether they be leylines or something else). What do you take out? Cantrips? Probes being the first one to go? I don't know what I can comfortably remove from the deck when sideboarding tbh.

Taking Omni to a small 12ish-man event this weekend which will be neat. My current sideboard is this:

1 Release the Ants
1 Fireminds Foresight
1 Eladamris Call
1 Noxious Revival
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dig Through Time
1 Trickbind
1 Pognify

With ~5 flexi sideboard slots. I anticipate my hardest match-ups I'll potentially face being Tin-Fins, BUG and MUD. Which is a massive improvement over Merfolk which had to face copious amounts of affinity, goblins, MUD and Elves. I also feel like Omni has game against everything, even it's bad match-ups courtesy of the wishboard. Noxious revival is sick, if I can keep BUG off of a Lily I feel like I can deal with the discard.

I'm also thinking of removing the Release the Ants win-con for my meta. I think the only time I'll use it as a back-up plan is if I'm versing S&T decks and need to win at instant speed once S&T resolves. I'm the only S&T player in my little meta right now so I think it'd be better if I just stuck Reanimator hate there. To other metas I'll keep it for the S&T match-up.

[kuroko16]

my current side is:

1 Sapphire Charm
1 Flusterstorm
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Rushing River
1 Firemind's Foresight
3 Defense Grid
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Release the Ants
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Noxious Revival
1 Swan Song or Divert
1 Misdirection


Pognify is interesting..i will test for my next tournament

i really love Jace but in main deck i use only 3 city and 0 ancient tomb and is really difficult cast Jace without Lotus petal or ancient in my opinion


someone use 1 intuition in side?

[Windmill]

Yeah I picked pognify so that I could remove a hate bear for more than one turn at instant speed. There might be a reason people prefer sapphire charm but to me, pognify seems better, they can have their 3/3 for all I care.

[Karhumies]

There might be a reason people prefer sapphire charm...

Typically, the reason to run Sapphire Charm *in a tempo shell* (e.g. Delver) are the indirect phasing out rules.



702.25f When a permanent phases out, any Auras, Equipment, or Fortifications attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out “indirectly.” An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification that phased out indirectly won’t phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the permanent it’s attached to.
...
702.25k Phased-out tokens cease to exist as a state-based action. See rule 704.5d.

Most notably, these rules affect Batterskull attached to a Germ token which is targeted by Sapphire Charm.

However, we are not a tempo deck and therefore do not really care about Batterskull's lifelink (since we don't really care about the opponent's life total) and vigilance. In my opinion, the equipment package most harmful to us is Stoneforge Mystic + Sword of Feast and Famine. SoFF provides a discard effect which goes through Leyline of Sanctity, and gives the opponent additional land untaps to interact with us. E.g. untapping Rishadan Port and Wasteland, as well as additional mana for Containment Priest in response to our SnT->Emrakul plan.


One minor difference between Sapphire Charm and Pongify is the wording "an opponent controls". Sapphire Charm can not be Diverted or Misdirected to target one of our creatures...which, in this deck, makes no difference at all since Emrakul has protection from colored spells anyhow.


In other words, I don't see many reasons for us to run Sapphire Charm. For example, Pongifying a Thalia to get multiple tax-less cantrip turns seems to me much better than bouncing or phasing out the Thalia, even though the opponent gets the 3/3 token.

[Esper3k]

Question for those of you guys running Release the Ants without any Enter the Infinite - are you just purely relying on cantrips to set up the top of your library?

[wonderPreaux]

Question for those of you guys running Release the Ants without any Enter the Infinite - are you just purely relying on cantrips to set up the top of your library?

There's also Noxious Revival, I suppose. Revival for even a DTT on top trumps a good number of other decks if you can't Revive an Omni, and if you can put an Emrakul on top you can try to draw and cast it. Still, it does seem rather card-intensive to do any of these things.

[Karhumies]

Question for those of you guys running Release the Ants without any Enter the Infinite - are you just purely relying on cantrips to set up the top of your library?

Quote from page 62. I have bolded the important section.

F foresight will save you against v clique. Before its always my problem SaT resolve then v clique into play take out emrakel or ent. But now SaT resolve put omni into play v clique for my opponent then i cast c wish get f foresight then get brainstorm impulse c wish, cast impulse then brainstorm and i cast cwish get RtA to kill my opponent. Remember not to cast impulse (use it only if necessary) always hide it to your library. I made my sb a toolbox for high percentage of winning every match...

Basically, with Omniscience in play, you can C.Wish-> Firemind's Foresight mini-loop to get C.Wish, Impulse and Brainstorm. Casting Impulse to start off a cantrip chain until you find something (Dig, Omniscience, Emrakul) to Brainstorm on top and then C.Wish->Ants gives pretty good odds for success.

Nevertheless, easycasting Emrakul, passing the turn to yourself and attacking should typically be Plan A. Not Ants.

[zzregz]

Quote from page 62. I have bolded the important section.


Basically, with Omniscience in play, you can C.Wish-> Firemind's Foresight mini-loop to get C.Wish, Impulse and Brainstorm. Casting Impulse to start off a cantrip chain until you find something (Dig, Omniscience, Emrakul) to Brainstorm on top and then C.Wish->Ants gives pretty good odds for success.

Nevertheless, easycasting Emrakul, passing the turn to yourself and attacking should typically be Plan A. Not Ants.


My WinCon:
Plan a - SaT to Emrakul
Plan b - SaT to omni to emrakul
Plan b.2 - dhalls to omni to emrakul
Plan c - SaT to omni to EtI to Cwish to RtA
Plan c.2 - dhalls to omni to EtI to Cwish to RtA
Plan c.3 - Sat to omni to Cwish to Fforesight to impulse to brainstorm to cwish to RtA
Plan c.4 - dhalls to omni to cwish to Fforesight to impulse to brainstorm to Cwish to RtA
Plan d - SaT to dhalls to EtI to Omni to emrakul/ cwish to RtA
Plan d.2 - dhalls to EtI to omni to emrakul/ cwish to RtA
Plan e - SaT to dhalls/ dhalls to fforesight to ???? (This is complicated)

Plan a to b.2 is a no brainer wincon but plan c to e is a complicated wincon.
I hope this will help you and also just practice everyday to master the skills in winning.
:)

[zzregz]

Quote from page 62. I have bolded the important section.


Basically, with Omniscience in play, you can C.Wish-> Firemind's Foresight mini-loop to get C.Wish, Impulse and Brainstorm. Casting Impulse to start off a cantrip chain until you find something (Dig, Omniscience, Emrakul) to Brainstorm on top and then C.Wish->Ants gives pretty good odds for success.

Nevertheless, easycasting Emrakul, passing the turn to yourself and attacking should typically be Plan A. Not Ants.


My WinCon:
Plan a - SaT to Emrakul
Plan b - SaT to omni to emrakul
Plan b.2 - dhalls to omni to emrakul
Plan c - SaT to omni to EtI to Cwish to RtA
Plan c.2 - dhalls to omni to EtI to Cwish to RtA
Plan c.3 - Sat to omni to Cwish to Fforesight to impulse to brainstorm to cwish to RtA
Plan c.4 - dhalls to omni to cwish to Fforesight to impulse to brainstorm to Cwish to RtA
Plan d - SaT to dhalls to EtI to Omni to emrakul/ cwish to RtA
Plan d.2 - dhalls to EtI to omni to emrakul/ cwish to RtA
Plan e - SaT to dhalls/ dhalls to fforesight to ???? (This is complicated)

Plan a to b.2 is a no brainer wincon but plan c to e is a complicated wincon.
I hope this will help you and also just practice everyday to master the skills in winning.
:)

[13reaper666]

Did anyone else play against Mana Maze? It's a total blowout. Isn't it?

[wonderPreaux]

Did anyone else play against Mana Maze? It's a total blowout. Isn't it?

It's a blowout in a world where you don't have Emrakul? If they show in Maze and you show in Emrakul, or Show omni & cast Emrakul, what did the Maze really achieve? I guess it breaks you if you were going for a Wish line, I guess.

[emidln]

It's a blowout in a world where you don't have Emrakul? If they show in Maze and you show in Emrakul, or Show omni & cast Emrakul, what did the Maze really achieve? I guess it breaks you if you were going for a Wish line, I guess.

It delays you a turn anyway. You still wish for a bounce spell on their upkeep (nice bonus, it's close to uncounterable by them), and then wipe away it in your upkeep, then continue to combo.

[Brentane]

Hello community. I'm trying to have a blue deck so I can use my Force of Wills and they are not sitting in my binder. I keep bouncing between OmniTell, Merfolk, and Reanimator. OmniTell is raw power, Merfolk is tribal (one of my favourite synergies) and a staple, and Reanimator is a faster combo deck that has toolbox utility. So my question to the community is, why should I play OmniTell? What is the benefits? What are the down sides? Why is it better than Merfolk and Reanimator?

[Tokugawa]

Hello community. I'm trying to have a blue deck so I can use my Force of Wills and they are not sitting in my binder. I keep bouncing between OmniTell, Merfolk, and Reanimator. OmniTell is raw power, Merfolk is tribal (one of my favourite synergies) and a staple, and Reanimator is a faster combo deck that has toolbox utility. So my question to the community is, why should I play OmniTell? What is the benefits? What are the down sides? Why is it better than Merfolk and Reanimator?

As a former Merfolk player, i'd say that althrough Merfolk is mono blue, its playstyle is totally different from usual Legacy blue decks. It has less interaction and no sculpting spells(which bring the most confortable player experience of blue cards) like brainstorm, ponder and DtT. Personally speaking, Merfolk is not a blue deck.

Merfolk was once the No.1 DTB deck at some timepoint about 4~5 years ago; and it had notable declination in tournaments of recent years.

For Omnitell and Reanimator, both are combo decks focused on "cheating" big things to play, both have fine interaction and sculpting. Reanimator is a bit faster, but more vulnerable to hate.

Reanimator is about 3x the price(since you already have FOWs) of Omnitell.

[Dziga Murnau]

Isn't Lim-Dul's Vault better than Impulse in Ub version? Outside of FF it's a Vampiric Tutor, often without lifeloss. In FF package it finds us Emri for RtA finish.
One more question: with FF do we really need Trickbind? Instead of countering some nasty trigger why no to just win on the spot with the same RtA ending?
Also, found quite suitable running a lone Emri in MD: after first attack just sac him to Cabal Therapy, shuffle and find once again.
Not the thing I ever thought about with the deck, but no EtI nowadays. Drawing the whole library was always so fun, but seems as a not needed option right now.

[zzregz]

Isn't Lim-Dul's Vault better than Impulse in Ub version? Outside of FF it's a Vampiric Tutor, often without lifeloss. In FF package it finds us Emri for RtA finish.
One more question: with FF do we really need Trickbind? Instead of countering some nasty trigger why no to just win on the spot with the same RtA ending?
Also, found quite suitable running a lone Emri in MD: after first attack just sac him to Cabal Therapy, shuffle and find once again.
Not the thing I ever thought about with the deck, but no EtI nowadays. Drawing the whole library was always so fun, but seems as a not needed option right now.



It depends on your build. I have 2 EtI mainboard to have a loop of multiple turns:
Once omni is into play - i cast emrakul (done then attack next turn) - cast EtI - cast emrakul - LOOP
( i used this strategy to DnT/ miracle/ mavs/ reanimator/ prison strategy decks)

[kuroko16]

It is possible beat Infect?

[zzregz]

It is possible beat Infect?


Yes its possible. They are counter lite and low cantrips. The key to beat them is gitaxian probe to know the strategy that you will do. Sometimes they have no counter spells but has creature and pump spell, so you will counter their creature. Sometimes they have cantrips but low on mana curve, so you will counter noble hierarch. Theres a big possibility that they will have a bad hand if you will cut their decks properly. And remember that if they brainstorm on turn 1 or 2 counter it coz theres a big possibility that they have a bad hand.
Just play test everyday and im sure you will have a 70 to 80% winning chance. I swear to god! :)
Oh! One more thing surgical is a good sideboard removing brainstorm, creature, or pump spells.

[Karhumies]

As a former Merfolk player, i'd say that althrough Merfolk is mono blue, its playstyle is totally different from usual Legacy blue decks. It has less interaction and no sculpting spells(which bring the most confortable player experience of blue cards) like brainstorm, ponder and DtT. Personally speaking, Merfolk is not a blue deck.

Merfolk was once the No.1 DTB deck at some timepoint about 4~5 years ago; and it had notable declination in tournaments of recent years.

For Omnitell and Reanimator, both are combo decks focused on "cheating" big things to play, both have fine interaction and sculpting. Reanimator is a bit faster, but more vulnerable to hate.

Reanimator is about 3x the price(since you already have FOWs) of Omnitell.

As for Merfolk, there has been little reason to run it in Legacy after Delver was printed. Merfolk used to have good and tight MUs against other fair decks such as Zoo, Goblins, UW Tempo, BW Tempo, Landstill, etc. But the Legacy metagame of today is very different compared to the metagame 4-5 years ago. IMO, Modern Merfolk is probably more viable than Legacy Merfolk currently (I am currently slowly building one into modern).

As a former reanimator player, I can tell you that a turn 1 MD Deathrite Shaman, turn 2 MD Rst In Peace and post-board Grafdigger's Cage/Surgical Extraction/Extirpate really hurt.

If you are considering other monoblue decks also as a budget choice, IMO you should also consider monoblue Delver (Vendilion Clique, Jace TMS cost a lot, though) and Painter's Servant + Grindstone combo deck (the core of that deck is colorless).

[Tokugawa]

As for Merfolk, there has been little reason to run it in Legacy after Delver was printed. Merfolk used to have good and tight MUs against other fair decks such as Zoo, Goblins, UW Tempo, BW Tempo, Landstill, etc. But the Legacy metagame of today is very different compared to the metagame 4-5 years ago. IMO, Modern Merfolk is probably more viable than Legacy Merfolk currently (I am currently slowly building one into modern).

As a former reanimator player, I can tell you that a turn 1 MD Deathrite Shaman, turn 2 MD Rst In Peace and post-board Grafdigger's Cage/Surgical Extraction/Extirpate really hurt.

If you are considering other monoblue decks also as a budget choice, IMO you should also consider monoblue Delver (Vendilion Clique, Jace TMS cost a lot, though) and Painter's Servant + Grindstone combo deck (the core of that deck is colorless).

Omnitell is not one of the most poweful budget(<$1000) legacy decks now, but THE most powerful.

Power level of the deck should be considered before investment(althrough not expensive, it is still $1000). Any painter deck without Blood moon strategy, should be categorized under "Rogue decks" today. The "core" of painters deck(if it even exist) is not any single card they play, but the cards other players playing. Blue and tricolor are popular? Then painters decks thrive.

There are also other mono-blue budget decks like Solidarity(Reset-based Hightide), but...tournament results would tell whether they could compete with Omnitell.

[Karhumies]

Omnitell is not one of the most poweful budget(<$1000) legacy decks now, but THE most powerful.

TBH, Elves, Oops and LED dredge do give us a run for the money in that price category, though. But out of these decks, we are the only one running Force of Will, which is a big bonus.

[Dutch253]

So I read somewhere that this is the best deck in Legacy not playing duals. Is that accurate? I'm really trying to break into Legacy but can afford duals.

[Tokugawa]

So I read somewhere that this is the best deck in Legacy not playing duals. Is that accurate? I'm really trying to break into Legacy but can afford duals.
DnT players would disagree that.

Omnitell may insert a pair of undergroundsea for casting sideboard hate cards. Typical DnT decks would not accept any duals.

[Dutch253]

DnT players would disagree that.

Omnitell may insert a pair of undergroundsea for casting sideboard hate cards. Typical DnT decks would not accept any duals.

What I found advantageous about this deck is that it plays cards used in other tier one decks like Force. Building DnT doesn't leave you with many Legacy staples for other decks.

[Curtis Dittmar]

Has there been any talk of transformational side baords? If so page #s would be appreciated.

[BaroqueW]

Has there been any talk of transformational side baords? If so page #s would be appreciated.

Allow me to reply the other way round :)
Here are two links to a Food Chain combo list with a transformational SnT sideboard:


http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23711-Food-Chain-Combo&p=766044&viewfull=1#post766044
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27206-Primer-Food-Chain-Combo&p=786847&viewfull=1#post786847

[emidln]

Has there been any talk of transformational side baords? If so page #s would be appreciated.

I suspect, but do not know for certain, that in the 4 Probe 4 DTT lists siding in 4 Monastery Mentor at the cost of 2 white sources in your 75 is an outstanding transform against most hate packages. It only really cuts you off from multiple copies of Pact of Negation, which is something most people have trimmed down to 1 in the wishboard.

I mentioned on Storm Boards (and someone even tested it a little to decent results) that playing SDTs maindeck (also complements Mentor) and then having the option to side in Miracles cards like Terminus would be very strong against some of the deck's more difficult matchups like DnT.

[YamiJoey]

Oh dear God I can't escape the menace that is me playing Top in every iteration of every deck I play. :(

EDIT: I actually brewed up this complete pile when I was going through my "Make every deck and put CounterTop in it" phase.

Permanents: 11
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Omniscience

Spells: 30
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Preordane
4 Cunning Wish
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
4 Dig Through Time

Lands: 19
8 Island
8 Fetchlands
3 Sol Lands

Take from this what you will, but there's definitely room for a sideboard to be made that shifts into Miracles.

[Windmill]

Has anyone thought of using Faerie Macabre in the sideboard for Reanimator decks?

I'm trying to think of the best graveyard hate to side in. Initially I thought surgical extraction since it can be played turn 0. But so can Faerie Macabre, and it can't be countered. Seems pretty good.

[Curtis Dittmar]

BaroqueW- Not quite what i was thinking,definitely looks spicy for my Shardless Food Chain board though.


emidln- I checked storm boards. Thanks for the idea.

4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Enter The Infinite
3 Dream Halls
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time

4 Flusterstorm
3 Pact Of Negation

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Top

10 Fetch
4 City Of Traitors
5 Island
1 Tundra

Side Board
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Terminus
1 Silence
1 Plains
1 Dig Through Time
1 Trickbind
1 Intuition
1 Wipe Away
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 R@D

Is the example list that he gives.
I like the idea of Silence/Monastery Mentor,but i feel like Terminus wouldn't be necessary for my list. Also what do you think the ideal boarding strategy would be?

My list is
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
3 Dream Halls
3 Enter The Infinite
1 Dig Through Time
1 Emrakul

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
3 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Impulse

4 Force Of Will
3 Flusterstorm

2 Ancient Tomb
2 City Of Traitors
6 Fetch
10 Island

Sideboard
1 Firemind's Forsight
1 Dig Through Time
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Trickbind
1 Release The Ants
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River


Control variants are what i always have trouble against. Id like the rest of the board to play like Elves or Food Chain even.

[Karhumies]

sideboard for Reanimator decks?

I'm trying to think of the best graveyard hate to side in.

Some of the best gy hate against Reanimator include:
Extirpate
Leyline of the Void
Surgical Extraction
Faerie Macabre
Reanimate
Tormod's Crypt
Grafdigger's Cage
Nihil Spellbomb
Noxious Revival (we might be running this card in our 75 already btw)

Basically, as long as it costs 0-1 mana and is not conditional, it's good enough. Reanimator will not typically combo turn 1. Cards coming from hand are typically better than permanents because they will typically side in bounce effects such as Echoing Truth. Also, diversified hate is better than multiples of the same card in case they run Cabal Therapy (or Echoing Truth for permanents).

Surgical, Noxious and Grafdigger's are my personal faves.

[kuroko16]

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16373


2° and 4° same list.


perfect main deck in my opinion ( some times 1 replace 1 pact of negation with 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All )

side with 1 Dream halls... is really necessary? 1x when you use it?


No defense grid and 2 boseiju. i don't understand. i love boseiju but some times Defense grid are the best choice.

[gobblor]

Hello, I was wondering if someone could explain what/how Firemind's Foresight is used for. Is it a value card or is there some combo that leads to a win after using it?

[sjmcc13]

It tutors for Intuition (with Impulse and Brainstorm/flusterstorm) which you then use to grab an Enter the Infinite.
The odds of being able to cast it without a Omniscience of dream halls in play are pretty much nill, so it is basically to tutor for a tutor to go off

[wonderPreaux]

Hello, I was wondering if someone could explain what/how Firemind's Foresight is used for. Is it a value card or is there some combo that leads to a win after using it?

Foresight also gives you a way to respond to triggered effects on your Show and Tell. While people tend to be cutting/trimming Enter the Infinite, Foresight can have value in providing you a stream of cantrips to find your Emrakul or w/e.

Example: You have Show and Tell, Omniscience, and Cunning Wish only. The coast seems clear, so you go for the Show and Tell, planning to Wish for Foresight, Foresight into Wish + Impulse + Cantrip, and parlay that into some sort of win (if you know the top card of your deck can win the clash, you could just wish for Release the Ants).

But, oh no, the opponent brought Ashen Rider to class! If you don't play Foresight, the best you can do here is Wish for Dig Through Time (or Intuition for Dig Through Time) and try to set up a string of instant-speed cantripping into Release the Ants or find a main-deck Trickbind, or find Wish + cantrip so you could Wish for Trickbind and keep going off. If you just Wish for Trickbind directly, you obviously can't go off (no cards left), but all these possible paths involve a lot of luck.

But, with you playing Foresight, this become an easy thing to handle. Foresight can pull Trickbind from your main, or Wish > Trickbind from the SB + 2 other cards to keep going off with. Since people seem to be cutting EtI, not everyone can fish for Intuition > EtI, but that's another strong play. I also don't see a lot of Dream Halls, but if you are running a build with 3+ EtI, Intuition and Dream Halls, there's a neat line you can do with Dream Halls, Wish, and 2 blue cards.
- Put Dream Halls into play.
- Discard 1 card to play Cunning Wish for Foresight.
- Discard 1 card to play Foresight for Intuition, Impulse/Trickbind, and a 1 cmc card (this is currently your entire hand).
- Discard 1 card to play Intuition for 3 Enter the Infinite.
- Discard 1 card to play Enter the Infinite. You are now holding your whole deck.
- Discard 1 card to play Omniscience.
- Win game.

[Karhumies]

Hello, I was wondering if someone could explain what/how Firemind's Foresight is used for. Is it a value card or is there some combo that leads to a win after using it?

There are multiple profitable lines of play.

Typically, they begin with
Omniscience in play
C.Wish-> F.Foresight
F.Foresight-> C.Wish, Impulse, Brainstorm
Now you have value. Time to turn that into a win con.

Example 1)
Impulse to cantrip for a better card
Brainstorm can then set up the top card.
C.Wish-> Release the Ants

Example 2)
(Impulse typically first)
C.Wish -> Eladamri's call
Eladamri's Call -> Emrakul
Emrakul
you can spend or save the Brainstorm.

Example 3)
(Impulse first)
C.Wish -> Intuition
Intuition -> 3x Emrakul / Enter the Infinite
Emrakul / Enter the Infinite
spend/save value cards

Example 4)
C.Wish-> Pact of Negation / Trickbind to avoid losing the game. Use value cards to dig for a win.

[Curtis Dittmar]

BaroqueW- Not quite what i was thinking,definitely looks spicy for my Shardless Food Chain board though.


emidln- I checked storm boards. Thanks for the idea.

4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Enter The Infinite
3 Dream Halls
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time

4 Flusterstorm
3 Pact Of Negation

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Top

10 Fetch
4 City Of Traitors
5 Island
1 Tundra

Side Board
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Terminus
1 Silence
1 Plains
1 Dig Through Time
1 Trickbind
1 Intuition
1 Wipe Away
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 R@D

Is the example list that he gives.
I like the idea of Silence/Monastery Mentor,but i feel like Terminus wouldn't be necessary for my list. Also what do you think the ideal boarding strategy would be?

My list is
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
3 Dream Halls
3 Enter The Infinite
1 Dig Through Time
1 Emrakul

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
3 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Impulse

4 Force Of Will
3 Flusterstorm

2 Ancient Tomb
2 City Of Traitors
6 Fetch
10 Island

Sideboard
1 Firemind's Forsight
1 Dig Through Time
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Trickbind
1 Release The Ants
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River


Control variants are what i always have trouble against. Id like the rest of the board to play like Elves or Food Chain even.

Any body else at where im at?

[zzregz]

Any body else at where im at?


Well it depends on your meta.

Additional sb would be:
2-3 d grid
1-2 g cage
1-2 boseiju, WSA
1 s extraction
1 noxious revival
1-2 flusterstorm
1 wipeaway
1 PoN
1 intuition
1 p jest
(This is the best sb i could think of)

[YamiJoey]

P Jest?

[P-E]

polymorphist jest i guess

[YamiJoey]

That seems sort of reasonable. What are we using the Jest for?

[Tokugawa]

"Until end of turn, each creature target player controls loses all abilities and becomes a blue Frog with base power and toughness 1/1."

Unfortunately, effect of Polymorphist's Jest only last to "end of turn", not "end of your next turn".

So we must cast it the same turn we go off. However, we must reach tremendous 7(!) mana(against Thalia) or 6 mana(against other hatebears) first. I don't know how this card could work for this deck.

[emidln]

"Until end of turn, each creature target player controls loses all abilities and becomes a blue Frog with base power and toughness 1/1."

Unfortunately, effect of Polymorphist's Jest only last to "end of turn", not "end of your next turn".

So we must cast it the same turn we go off. However, we must reach tremendous 7(!) mana(against Thalia) or 6 mana(against other hatebears) first. I don't know how this card could work for this deck.

It doesn't. Splash Massacre and/or Toxic Deluge.

[Brentane]

Just wondering who to talk too about this thread's banner? I made a banner for OmniTell for MTGSalvation and though the community here might like it. Here is the banner image (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ihqQNBkj7tE/VOxz-FoH-GI/AAAAAAAAAIw/vc5Ve8kv0ss/w2236-h1324-no/OmniTell_MTGSBanner.jpeg).

[Karhumies]

That seems sort of reasonable. What are we using the Jest for?
To prevent lethal in combat during an opponent's turn (e.g. Progenitus, True-Name Nemesis with equipment).

For most of the other plausible scenarios, we already have bounce effects and/or Trickbind.

[Dziga Murnau]

To prevent lethal in combat during an opponent's turn (e.g. Progenitus, True-Name Nemesis with equipment).

For most of the other plausible scenarios, we already have bounce effects and/or Trickbind.
Curfew is just better in such scenarios. In Ub version you get access to Darkness. Taking some snaps from 1/1 frogs is too much a nonsence for six mana.

[Sansian]

Just wondering who to talk too about this thread's banner? I made a banner for OmniTell for MTGSalvation and though the community here might like it. Here is the banner image (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ihqQNBkj7tE/VOxz-FoH-GI/AAAAAAAAAIw/vc5Ve8kv0ss/w2236-h1324-no/OmniTell_MTGSBanner.jpeg).

The OP, LeJay, is still active on the forums. He's your best bet. Also, that's a pretty brilliant job of blending them images. The font is slightly wonky, but top notch work on stitching the card arts together. : )

[wonderPreaux]

I have a question about this deck that came up as I was looking over some tourney results: how do people come up with the ratios for how many Emrakul/EtI to run in their 60?

Having never really played the deck, this is my understanding of it:
- EtI and Emrakul can, to an extent, substitute and complement each other. Both are really good at being played off Omni and then getting parlayed into a victory.
- EtI is better with Dream Halls in the deck, but it seems few people play that these days.
- OP notes that Emrakul is a great plan for hatebears, it also seems very good agaisnt countermagic, especially with Boseiju.
- However, reliance on Emrakul (and a lack of Dream Halls) can leave you open to incidental things that randomly stop your combo, especially with no EtI to grab all your Cunning Wishes.
- While great bombs, these cards can be dead draws and you can at least YOLO a SnT when you're holding an Emrakul
- Numbers seem to be all over the place, I've seen lists with 4 of each, 1 of each, just Emrakuls, just EtI, and everything in between. This perplexes me, given that it seems so important to optimize both the number of live cards pre-combo, and the access to win-con setups post combo.

So, I'm wondering, how do you decide what config to run, and what sort of gains/losses do you get from given proportions? I would have to guess the only explanation for lists being all over the palce isthat there could also be some meta-dependency to it, or some other main/side deck correlation I missed from not really knowing this deck.

[emidln]

Curfew is just better in such scenarios. In Ub version you get access to Darkness. Taking some snaps from 1/1 frogs is too much a nonsence for six mana.

I ran Cryptic Command for a long time as a wishable bounce+draw spell that was not CMC=3 and could sometimes fog+draw or counter+draw. It wasn't terrible.

[kkkant]

Hey guys which do you consider to be the best advantage of the mono U version Vs. the UR/Grixis one?
I've been trying the tricolor one last week and worked out really really well for me. Burning wish fetching show and tell was awesome, plus izzet charm MD is just great, the 3 modes are really usable, either faithless loothing which fills the yard, spell pierce or bolting a meddling mage/thalia/gaddock teeg/delver. Plus, the manabase isnt very compromised; i ran 3 sol lands, 8 fetchlands, 2 volcanid, 2 u sea, 4 islands 1 mountain.
I guess not being able to wish for trickbind means you instantly lose aggainst ashen rider/oblivion ring efects, thats really something to take into consideration; but anyways, those two cards dont see a lot of play today.

[Dziga Murnau]

WonderPreaux, I prefer to play minimum dead pre-combo cards, so 0 EtI and only 1 Emrakul. After printing DtT EtI became just a win more card (first, we do not need to grab the whole deck to win, second, it doesn't matter what spell do we fight for after SnT resolves). SnT -> Emri is the worst play in the deck, as meta get used to defend against this typical Sneak'n'Show action. He still is our primary way to victory, but he better just sit somewhere in the library all alone before Omniscience get into play.
That means only 5 completely uncastable on their own cards. Pretty neat for me.

kkkant, use Firemind's Forsight trick to win in response to Oring/Rider trigger.

Gonna try 4th wish main. It's the best card to play with Omni and with dedicated side not so incredibly clunky.

[kkkant]

WonderPreaux, I prefer to play minimum dead pre-combo cards, so 0 EtI and only 1 Emrakul. After printing DtT EtI became just a win more card (first, we do not need to grab the whole deck to win, second, it doesn't matter what spell do we fight for after SnT resolves). SnT -> Emri is the worst play in the deck, as meta get used to defend against this typical Sneak'n'Show action. He still is our primary way to victory, but he better just sit somewhere in the library all alone before Omniscience get into play.
That means only 5 completely uncastable on their own cards. Pretty neat for me.

kkkant, use Firemind's Forsight trick to win in response to Oring/Rider trigger.

Gonna try 4th wish main. It's the best card to play with Omni and with dedicated side not so incredibly clunky.


It seems i didnt made myself clear enough; i know i can beat o ring/rider with the monoU (thus cunning wish) version, im saying the UR (burning wish) is the one that doesnt have any outs.

[Megadeus]

It seems i didnt made myself clear enough; i know i can beat o ring/rider with the monoU (thus cunning wish) version, im saying the UR (burning wish) is the one that doesnt have any outs.

It takes a turn, but why not just wish for the Sorcery one man's bounce spell, bounce oring, then win?

[kkkant]

It takes a turn, but why not just wish for the Sorcery one man's bounce spell, bounce oring, then win?

Yes, its an out. Not the very best but an answer after all. Ashen rider/Recelamation Sage are the biggest problem anyway

[Dziga Murnau]

Yes, its an out. Not the very best but an answer after all. Ashen rider/Recelamation Sage are the biggest problem anyway

This is one of the weakness of ur-omni. Yes, it has 7 SnT, but it also is less resilient to dedicated hate. I also strongly dislike BWish in Omnitell. Not blue, not instant, not finding anything relevant beyond SnT. For two mana we need to get more.

[Poron]

This is one of the weakness of ur-omni. Yes, it has 7 SnT, but it also is less resilient to dedicated hate. I also strongly dislike BWish in Omnitell. Not blue, not instant, not finding anything relevant beyond SnT. For two mana we need to get more.

Enter the Infinite and Diabolic Tutor.

Cunning and Burning Wish are good here because they allow you to both look for pieces and close the game with Ominiscience in the field.

[Brentane]

I take it 3 Ancient Tombs instead of 3 City of Traitors is a bad idea? To much life loss? If so, I'll be using Crystal Veins until I can get the Cities.

[Poron]

I prefer Lotus Petal over all of them

[kkkant]

BWish is just nuts. It helps you assemble show+omni (which cwish doesnt) and if you alraedy have a omniscience in play it fetchs enter the infinite/spiraling embers. The only downside is failing to win vs ashen rider, but on the upside you can win through Iona for blue, which monou cant fight unless you have the emrakul in hand.

[Karhumies]

Hey guys which do you consider to be the best advantage of the mono U version Vs. the UR/Grixis one?

Opponent's Wasteland, Stifle and Blood Moon. Especially Delver, Painter-Stone, Merfolk and Death & Taxes MUs.

[KobeBryan]

BWish is just nuts. It helps you assemble show+omni (which cwish doesnt) and if you alraedy have a omniscience in play it fetchs enter the infinite/spiraling embers. The only downside is failing to win vs ashen rider, but on the upside you can win through Iona for blue, which monou cant fight unless you have the emrakul in hand.

The BW version is too slow in my opinion. It also cannot stop shit like flikerwisp

[wonderPreaux]

I have a question about this deck that came up as I was looking over some tourney results: how do people come up with the ratios for how many Emrakul/EtI to run in their 60?

Having never really played the deck, this is my understanding of it:
- EtI and Emrakul can, to an extent, substitute and complement each other. Both are really good at being played off Omni and then getting parlayed into a victory.
- EtI is better with Dream Halls in the deck, but it seems few people play that these days.
- OP notes that Emrakul is a great plan for hatebears, it also seems very good agaisnt countermagic, especially with Boseiju.
- However, reliance on Emrakul (and a lack of Dream Halls) can leave you open to incidental things that randomly stop your combo, especially with no EtI to grab all your Cunning Wishes.
- While great bombs, these cards can be dead draws and you can at least YOLO a SnT when you're holding an Emrakul
- Numbers seem to be all over the place, I've seen lists with 4 of each, 1 of each, just Emrakuls, just EtI, and everything in between. This perplexes me, given that it seems so important to optimize both the number of live cards pre-combo, and the access to win-con setups post combo.

So, I'm wondering, how do you decide what config to run, and what sort of gains/losses do you get from given proportions? I would have to guess the only explanation for lists being all over the palce isthat there could also be some meta-dependency to it, or some other main/side deck correlation I missed from not really knowing this deck.


WonderPreaux, I prefer to play minimum dead pre-combo cards, so 0 EtI and only 1 Emrakul. After printing DtT EtI became just a win more card (first, we do not need to grab the whole deck to win, second, it doesn't matter what spell do we fight for after SnT resolves). SnT -> Emri is the worst play in the deck, as meta get used to defend against this typical Sneak'n'Show action. He still is our primary way to victory, but he better just sit somewhere in the library all alone before Omniscience get into play.
That means only 5 completely uncastable on their own cards. Pretty neat for me.

I can understand not wanting a lot of dead cards, so I can understand the 0-1 Emrakul/0-1 EtI builds. Do you miss a lot from not having EtI to set up the Release the Ants/Lab Man kills and do you have trouble ever finding the singleton Emrakul, though? I'm thinking that balance is likely the factor that most influences peoples choices. Is there anyone running 4+ EtI/Emrakul total that could comment on their thought process for that? I think Lejay's last big list for the deck had 2 Emrakul and 3 EtI (no intuition to go with that, though), is anyone else running a win-con heavy list like that?

[Dziga Murnau]

I can understand not wanting a lot of dead cards, so I can understand the 0-1 Emrakul/0-1 EtI builds. Do you miss a lot from not having EtI to set up the Release the Ants/Lab Man kills and do you have trouble ever finding the singleton Emrakul, though? I'm thinking that balance is likely the factor that most influences peoples choices. Is there anyone running 4+ EtI/Emrakul total that could comment on their thought process for that? I think Lejay's last big list for the deck had 2 Emrakul and 3 EtI (no intuition to go with that, though), is anyone else running a win-con heavy list like that?

No problems at all. Post-Omni every cantrip in my hand is EtI, as it replaces itself with another one and so on until I find Emri or Wish. It wasn't so strong until KTK and DtT printing, of course, but now you look for free in 7 cards and get two: wincons or more DtT and cantrips. Emri+3 Wishes is 4 Emris, that's enough with 17 cantrips/tutors.
For Ant-kill I use FF - quick, reliable and easy kill (I also use FF for the second Emri attack, if needed).

I would like to see Lejay's tips for his victorious build also.

[wonderPreaux]

No problems at all. Post-Omni every cantrip in my hand is EtI, as it replaces itself with another one and so on until I find Emri or Wish. It wasn't so strong until KTK and DtT printing, of course, but now you look for free in 7 cards and get two: wincons or more DtT and cantrips. Emri+3 Wishes is 4 Emris, that's enough with 17 cantrips/tutors.
For Ant-kill I use FF - quick, reliable and easy kill (I also use FF for the second Emri attack, if needed).

I would like to see Lejay's tips for his victorious build also.

I'm guessing you're talking about Firemind's Foresight here. In finding another Cunning Wish you get access to Noxious Revival for another draw > attack, but how do you set up an Ant kill? Is it just using the Impulse + Ponder/Brainstorm to set up Ants?

[YamiJoey]

How do we Noxious Revival for a second Emrakul attack?

[wonderPreaux]

How do we Noxious Revival for a second Emrakul attack?

Put a card on top of your deck so you don't deck if you had to draw the whole deck to Emrakul

[YamiJoey]

Oh, I see. I assumed you meant if they had lethal on the swing back. This is why I play 4 Omni/2 Emrakul. Show->Emrakul is very good. Omni->Enter w/2 Emrakuls is infinite turns.

[Dziga Murnau]

I'm guessing you're talking about Firemind's Foresight here. In finding another Cunning Wish you get access to Noxious Revival for another draw > attack, but how do you set up an Ant kill? Is it just using the Impulse + Ponder/Brainstorm to set up Ants?

I play 2 Lim-Dul's Vault in main to find combo pieces pre combo and put emrakul on topdeck for Ants)
Second attack usually made by saccing Emri to Therapy flashback and FF works here as the second Eladamri's Call (Call is shuffled into the library and becomes that 2-mana instant for FF).

[KobeBryan]

I play 2 Lim-Dul's Vault in main to find combo pieces pre combo and put emrakul on topdeck for Ants)
Second attack usually made by saccing Emri to Therapy flashback and FF works here as the second Eladamri's Call (Call is shuffled into the library and becomes that 2-mana instant for FF).

I don't think you need 2 lim duls

you can play lim duls then you Cunning wish FF for the two of.

then play it for the win con.

Then again, why Lim duls when you basically have omni in play.

[Dziga Murnau]

I don't think you need 2 lim duls

you can play lim duls then you Cunning wish FF for the two of.

then play it for the win con.

Then again, why Lim duls when you basically have omni in play.

1. I started with one, but had too many situations, when I used it pre-combo to find pieces, got a vendilion clique from SnT and could not win with Ants, because the lone LDV was already in graveyard. Second copy is good when it stays in the library and also when it waits in hand - in any case it will do it's job.
2. LDV got their way in main after black splash suggestion almost immideatly. It searches everything before combo turn, it's the best two mana instant for FF-Ants kill, it pitches to force, it can be played from basic swamp after first turn Thoughtseize, it protects combo pieces from discard. I am always happy to cast it (and watch my opponents reading that mystically underplayed Vampiric Tutor too).

[Curtis Dittmar]

Tryed this board at Flipside Gamings 1k.

1 Dig Through Time
1 Firemind's Forsight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Trick Bind
1 Release the Ants
1 Rushing River
1 Echoing Truth
3 Defense Grid
2 Vendilion Clique
3 True-Name Nemisis

Never played against control,however TNN complemented by Cliques seemed better than splashing.

Cliques where awesome!

Boarded 2 in vs ANT,Spiral Tide,no Halls Omni and RUG Delver (complemented by Defense Grids).

Being able to hit a Ruic Thar/Rec Sage or just disrupt Elves seemed better than a Dream Halls. So i brought 1 in on the play.

Having the ability to block a 20/20 was also nice,so i brought 1 in vs R/G lands to.

The card was just awesome the hole day!

[Windmill]

Do you guys think that one Underground Seas would be enough when splashing for Massacre?

[KobeBryan]

Do you guys think that one Underground Seas would be enough when splashing for Massacre?

No. I run 1 swamp just in case of wastelands

[Dziga Murnau]

Do you guys think that one Underground Seas would be enough when splashing for Massacre?

I stopped at 2 Seas 1 Swamp in a heavy B build. For Massacre only 1 Sea seems ok (you really do not need more than one to resolve against hatebears).

[vermelho]

Hello everybody,
That's my first post in this thread but I was following this one about two weeks reading tips and triks to play with this magnifiant deck.
I have then build this 75 to play in a Legacy 2k(2kusd of prize) in my region.

MD
8 island
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
2 city of traitors
1 ancient tomb

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 preordain
4 dig through time
4 gitaxian probe

4 force of will
2 pact of negation

4 cunning wish
4 show and tell
4 ominiscience
2 emrakul
1 impulse

SB
4 leyline of sanctity
2 boseiju
1 grafdigger's cage
1 noxious revival
1 firemind's foresight
1 trickbind
1 sapphire charm
1 release the ants
1 flusterstorm
1 rushing river
1 eladamri's call



first match
against UWR Stoneblade
g1 - I start pondering at first turn, second turn I sit down a Polluted Delta and then Brainstorm giving back two trash cards and shuffle cracking the Delta. Turn 3 I have G.Probe and pieces of the combo.
g2 - Turn two he have an stoneforge in game that searchs for an Batterskull. I Try to combo off turn three with 2 counters(fow and pact) in hand but It's nothing against him flusterstorm.
g3 - I'm able to combo off on turn three again but this time with boseiju and some counters in my hand.
1-0

second match
against BW Deadguy Ale
g1 - Is impossible to fight against 2 tidehollow
g2 - This time I start with Leyline of Sanctity and they dont have much to do. I finish this game in Turn 3 easily
g3 - Again I have a start hand with Leyline and I go off in Turn 4 with SAT to Omniscience and he show an Oblivion Ring. With the O.Ring tigger on the stack I cast cunning wish to Firemind's foresight to Cunning wish+impulse+Brainstorm and I won with Release the ants.
2-0

third match
against monoU Omnitell
For my fortune he don't have idea how to play in the mirror, and maybe how to play with this deck =)
g1 - He waste him counterspells with my show and tell and then play him own show and tell... We both put Ominiscience on the play and then they try to go off with Cunning wish but I have a response with DTT that don't found cunning wish but found another DTT that don't found cunning wish but found another DTT that don't found cunning wish and the I loose... I see 21 cards with DTT plus 6 wish ponder(shuffle) and Brainstorm
g2 - I go off fast on turn three knowing him hand thank's to Gprobe and finish
g3 - Without Idea on how to use G probe he cast it on turn one and register my hand with nothing usefull except one Brainstorm. They go off on turn 3 with SAT and I try to found something usefull with Brainstorm that give me an emrakull. He show's me a emrakull on the Sat an me too ;) Mine attack first and GG.
3-0

fourth match
against UWR stoneblade
g1 - I don't have to hurry against stoneblade and then I have time to sculpt my hand and try to combo on turn five to SAT and after a nice counter war I won and go to G
g2 - Now I have access to Boseiju who can help me against him counters. But they have a turn two Meddling Mage to SaT, I try cunning wish(with boseiju) to sapphire charm but I don't have two more turns to go off protect with Boseiju
g3 - I start very fast and combo on turn two thanks to city of traitors and Gitaxian probe and blue pact
4-0

fifth match
against monoR burn
ID
4-0-1

Sixth match
against UWR midrange(stoneblade control)
I don't remember about this match, but me and my opponnent have decided to Play but split the prize, this way, one of us will finish at first and won 800usd and the other will be in some position that will receive something like 100usd.
And then I won very easily and fast G1 and G2 and I finish at first place and he in sixth winning 110usd.
As we have decided to split the prize, each one won 455usd.
5-0-1

Top 8 (battle for a place in the Brazilian National legacy championship)
against Sliver (wow)
I know that the only ways they have to interact with me is with a playset of FOW and a playset of Daze. And I know too that they don't have so many cards to discard to the FOW.
The only thing I need is to play safe against daze and then I won G1 and G2 very easy.
6-0-1

Top 4
against URb pyromancer (with Young pyro and Cabal Therapy)
g1 - I don't have so many chances against turn two Young Pyro and turn three G probe followed by two cabal therapy with flashback.
g2 - Everything that I want now is one Leyline. I open a hand with Leyline, city of traitor, ponder, ponder, preordain,SaT and omniscience.... You will keep this hand ?
I keep and have EIGHT TURNS WITHOUT DRAW A SINGLE ISLAND OR FETCH LAND OR GITAXIAN PROBE.
7-1-1

[laserstone]

@vermelho Good run! How did you like pacts in an enter-less build, and how often does Foresight fail to kill? I play 2 flusters instead, since I usually kill with emrakul and can't always pay for pact on my 2nd turn.
I also don't play leyline, opting for the black splash (2 massacre, 1 deluge, 1 slaughter pact) in its place (and a couple thoughtseize in the main). I'm usually able to win even through a couple discard; how does leyline play for you? Would you recommend it over other board cards?
For reference, my board ATM is:
2 grid
1 misdirection
1 eladamri
1 release ants
1 toxic deluge
2 massacre
1 noxious
1 surgical
1 rushing river
1 trickbind
1 dig
1 boseiju
1 slaughter pact

In other news, 4-0d the local again this week (3-0-1, split R4 but won in for-fun games).
R1 bye
R2 Stiflenought: lost g1 to 10 counterspells including Arcane denial and Stubborn denial (?!). Won g2 normal way. G3 put omni into play, he puts in steal enchantment. Have to dig for more combo pieces and go off again 3 turns later, win with enter.
R3 Dredge: t2 wish for surgical on bridges both games.
R4 Miracles: force his t2 counterbalance, dig finds boseiju, win. G2 he bounces my omni with venser. Die to snapcaster beats. G3 boseiju in opener -> omni -> emmy wins.

Maybe it's just my meta, but I haven't done worse than 3-1 with omnitell in the 7-8 weeks i've played it. Deck seems really good right now.

[vermelho]

@vermelho Good run! How did you like pacts in an enter-less build, and how often does Foresight fail to kill? I play 2 flusters instead, since I usually kill with emrakul and can't always pay for pact on my 2nd turn.
I also don't play leyline, opting for the black splash (2 massacre, 1 deluge, 1 slaughter pact) in its place (and a couple thoughtseize in the main). I'm usually able to win even through a couple discard; how does leyline play for you? Would you recommend it over other board cards?
For reference, my board ATM is:
2 grid
1 misdirection
1 eladamri
1 release ants
1 toxic deluge
2 massacre
1 noxious
1 surgical
1 rushing river
1 trickbind
1 dig
1 boseiju
1 slaughter pact

In other news, 4-0d the local again this week (3-0-1, split R4 but won in for-fun games).
R1 bye
R2 Stiflenought: lost g1 to 10 counterspells including Arcane denial and Stubborn denial (?!). Won g2 normal way. G3 put omni into play, he puts in steal enchantment. Have to dig for more combo pieces and go off again 3 turns later, win with enter.
R3 Dredge: t2 wish for surgical on bridges both games.
R4 Miracles: force his t2 counterbalance, dig finds boseiju, win. G2 he bounces my omni with venser. Die to snapcaster beats. G3 boseiju in opener -> omni -> emmy wins.

Maybe it's just my meta, but I haven't done worse than 3-1 with omnitell in the 7-8 weeks i've played it. Deck seems really good right now.



IMHO Leyline and Boseiju is very necessary and they do what they have to do. I can't see me playing without this six SB cards.
Talking about the Pact, I'm honestly thinking about change for Flusterstorm, because the only way to fight against flusterstorm is with another flusterstorm. But I did'nt have any problem to pay the pact, by the way I ever won when resolve the Ominiscience. This build is based to win at instant speed avoiding ashen riders, Oblivion ring and the next turn pact. I won only two times in the last championship using emrakul. I thought that you LIKE to attack with emrakul just to F**K your opponent table cause you obviously can kill then using RTA ;)

[Karhumies]

Omni->Enter w/2 Emrakuls is infinite turns.

This is the reason why I have 2 Emrakul minimum in my builds.

If running Intuition in the SB, 2 Emrakul + 1 EtI gives you 3 targets for Intuition.

[laserstone]

IMHO Leyline and Boseiju is very necessary and they do what they have to do. I can't see me playing without this six SB cards.
Talking about the Pact, I'm honestly thinking about change for Flusterstorm, because the only way to fight against flusterstorm is with another flusterstorm. But I did'nt have any problem to pay the pact, by the way I ever won when resolve the Ominiscience. This build is based to win at instant speed avoiding ashen riders, Oblivion ring and the next turn pact. I won only two times in the last championship using emrakul. I thought that you LIKE to attack with emrakul just to F**K your opponent table cause you obviously can kill then using RTA ;)

What would you consider cutting from my board for leylines? I already know and love boseiju, I am 4-0 in matches against miracles almost entirely because of that card.

Also, do you ever fizzle with firemind's foresight? If so, how often? I'm considering cutting my last remaining mainboard enter for one more cwish, and cutting noxious in my board for foresight, but I'm not sure.

[vermelho]

What would you consider cutting from my board for leylines? I already know and love boseiju, I am 4-0 in matches against miracles almost entirely because of that card.

Also, do you ever fizzle with firemind's foresight? If so, how often? I'm considering cutting my last remaining mainboard enter for one more cwish, and cutting noxious in my board for foresight, but I'm not sure.

I never have fizzle with FF. We have lot of cards with high CC, and even a Force of will is a very expensive CC in Legacy. So, you can shoot cunning wish to FF and retrieve another C wish, Impulse and Brainstorm. Play first the Impulse to see 4 cards (you need to aim to Emrakul, omniscience, dig through time or fow - in this order) and bring any big card.... after impulse play Brainstorm to see three more cards and aim for the same cards and then put a high CC card on the top. Use cunning wish to Release the ants and GG.
I really can't see how can fizzle after FF ;-)

In you SB, actually you have
2 grid
1 misdirection
1 eladamri
1 release ants
1 toxic deluge
2 massacre
1 noxious
1 surgical
1 rushing river
1 trickbind
1 dig
1 boseiju
1 slaughter pact

As you can see in my SB, I'm not using defense grid since I have 2 boseiju in the Sideboard. And I dislike boseiju MD.
So, If you have boseiju MD you can start moving they for the SB and then with 2 boseiju in SB you can cut the 2 grid.
IMHO again, the black splash is just for massacre and then you need to remove this toxic deluge from SB.
Rushing River, Trickbind, Release the Ants is really necessary cards.

Ok, then we have some cards to share thoughts.

Noxious
Surgical
slaughter pact
eladamri's call
misdirection
dig

Noxious Revival - I'm using 1-off in my SB too. But I don't known why. I thought that noxious could be used to put some card with low CC from my opponent yard on top of their deck, but reading again the CLASH rules, the player can choose to put the clashed card in the top or botton of the deck. So, the only reason to use Noxious is to play it against surgical that is a real reason to maintain it in the SB.
Surgical - For me it's unnecessary. You want to combo off and not to delay the opponent.
Slaughter pact - I have played without it but I have suffered a bit against meddling mages, maybe you can maintain it in the SB.
Misdirection - change it for a Pact of negation
Dig - move it to MD, you need 4 Dig MD.

And then we have the following
2 grid - CUT
1 misdirection - CHANGE FOR PACT OR FLUSTER
1 eladamri - OK
1 release ants - OK
1 toxic deluge - CUT
2 massacre - OK
1 noxious - OK
1 surgical - CUT
1 rushing river - OK
1 trickbind - OK
1 dig - MOVE TO MD
1 boseiju - INCREASE ONE
1 slaughter pact - OK

Slots available:
1 dig + 1 surgical + 1 deluge + 2 grid = 5 - 1 boseiju = 4 slots (leyline)

What you think ?

[KobeBryan]

IMHO Leyline and Boseiju is very necessary and they do what they have to do. I can't see me playing without this six SB cards.
Talking about the Pact, I'm honestly thinking about change for Flusterstorm, because the only way to fight against flusterstorm is with another flusterstorm. But I did'nt have any problem to pay the pact, by the way I ever won when resolve the Ominiscience. This build is based to win at instant speed avoiding ashen riders, Oblivion ring and the next turn pact. I won only two times in the last championship using emrakul. I thought that you LIKE to attack with emrakul just to F**K your opponent table cause you obviously can kill then using RTA ;)

With massacre, you don't really need slaughter pact.

Not too many people play IONA anyways, and if you really need space, that would be the first to cut.

[vermelho]

With massacre, you don't really need slaughter pact.

Not too many people play IONA anyways, and if you really need space, that would be the first to cut.

Massacre isn't wishable, slaughter pact is !
That's is the reason why you did not cut the pact.

[Kanti]

Can I ask why I've seen some list with a 1-of Impulse? I know it's a minor thing, but why woudn't this deck always want to be main-boarding DTT? It seems amazing pre-combo, and acts as CWish #5 in many senses once you land Omniscience. Unless you are running both?

[KobeBryan]

Can I ask why I've seen some list with a 1-of Impulse? I know it's a minor thing, but why woudn't this deck always want to be main-boarding DTT? It seems amazing pre-combo, and acts as CWish #5 in many senses once you land Omniscience. Unless you are running both?

To max the effectiveness of FF.

[Windmill]

Firemind's Foresight lets us grab a 2cc card, so Impulse is the best one. If Omniscience is in play, we can cast a cunning wish and get FF, cast it to get another 3cc instant (such as another wish), a 2cc instant and a 1cc instant. So we play Impulse so we can grab this. It turns a single cunning wish into a cunning wish + 2 cantrips. In an emergency, with Release the Ants, you can use this to go off at instant speed:

Show & Tell -> Omniscience
Cunning Wish -> Firemind's Foresight
Firemind's Foresight -> Cunning Wish, Impulse & Brainstorm
Impulse -> Find the highest CC card you can
Brainstorm -> Draw another 3, pick the highest CC card in hand and put it back on top (with impulse/brainstorm, we get to dig through 7 cards, like a DTT)
Cunning Wish -> Release the Ants
Cast Release the Ants, clash, and if you win it then victory.

vermelho I really appreciated your tournament report. Was surprised to see you go off on T3 quite a lot, because I honestly don't! I consistently go off on T4 but not T3. I wonder why your list goes off on T3 more than mine. The big change I've done is removed an Intuition (I was running 2 in the MD which was unusual) and replaced it with a 4th probe. I goldfished 10 games and I definitely went off on T3 more than I did, but 10 goldfishes isn't enough to really say much ;)

[laserstone]

I'll ask again: for those more experienced with Firemind's Foresight, how often do you fail to find a high enough CMC card in the top X cards? I goldfished a couple times and in two of those games couldn't find a high enough CMC card, but maybe I'm just unlucky.

[Dziga Murnau]

I'll ask again: for those more experienced with Firemind's Foresight, how often do you fail to find a high enough CMC card in the top X cards? I goldfished a couple times and in two of those games couldn't find a high enough CMC card, but maybe I'm just unlucky.
I'll say again (and shut out until I get some serious tournament results) that Lim-Dul's Vault instead of Impulse let you put Emrakul on topdeck and just win without any gambling with cantrips.

[Lans89]

Firemind Foresight is best vs Death and Taxes postboard. If they show in a flickerwisp you can cunning wish for Firemind, search BS + Trickbind + a new cunning wish for the win. Ofc, there are more situations like that, and this is the main reason why I always keep Firemind in the sidbeoard :)

[Karhumies]

I'll say again (and shut out until I get some serious tournament results) that Lim-Dul's Vault instead of Impulse let you put Emrakul on topdeck and just win without any gambling with cantrips.

Not worth splashing black IMO. In monoblue you can run 1U version of Twincast (forgot the name) to copy C.Wish to Eladamri's Call or Noxious a DtT on top. Or gutsily run 1x Eladamri main for Omni/ FF without sources.

SnT into Omni into LDV then pass turn without cantrips is just not good enough IMO.

[vermelho]

I'll ask again: for those more experienced with Firemind's Foresight, how often do you fail to find a high enough CMC card in the top X cards? I goldfished a couple times and in two of those games couldn't find a high enough CMC card, but maybe I'm just unlucky.

In my last championship, after get a omniscience into play and get the FF for BS, Impulse and another wish the highest card that I found was a Force of will - CC=5 - But it's enoght to win some times.


Talking about LDV against Impulse.
If you have Black in your build, Ok, go with LDV. But in a build without Black splash you have a dead card in your deck being able to play only after omniscience.

[laserstone]

As you can see in my SB, I'm not using defense grid since I have 2 boseiju in the Sideboard. And I dislike boseiju MD.
So, If you have boseiju MD you can start moving they for the SB and then with 2 boseiju in SB you can cut the 2 grid.
IMHO again, the black splash is just for massacre and then you need to remove this toxic deluge from SB.
Rushing River, Trickbind, Release the Ants is really necessary cards.

...

And then we have the following
2 grid - CUT
1 misdirection - CHANGE FOR PACT OR FLUSTER
1 eladamri - OK
1 release ants - OK
1 toxic deluge - CUT
2 massacre - OK
1 noxious - OK
1 surgical - CUT
1 rushing river - OK
1 trickbind - OK
1 dig - MOVE TO MD
1 boseiju - INCREASE ONE
1 slaughter pact - OK

Slots available:
1 dig + 1 surgical + 1 deluge + 2 grid = 5 - 1 boseiju = 4 slots (leyline)

What you think ?

Defense Grid is very good against delver. (There isn't much in my local meta, which makes grid seem bad, but at larger events it will certainly be a contender). Boseiju, on the other hand, is easily wasteland-able, and can't really be sided in vs. delvers because it has to live 2 full turns before it is useful. What do you think? Anybody else with experience playing Grid, what do you think?
I agree with you about surgical and deluge - I'm playing them only because my local meta has enough D&T/Maverick/Dredge for those cards to be important. At a larger tourney, I probably wouldn't play them.
What do you folks think about Lotus Petal in the main? I'm playing 2, in place of a land and a Preordain. I haven't seen them in more than 1 game over 7 matches, though, so I don't really know good they are :\

Next local, I'm going to try a Foresight/Lim Dul's Vault build with 2 Emmy and no Enter main. I'll let you know how it goes.

[vermelho]

Defense Grid is very good against delver. (There isn't much in my local meta, which makes grid seem bad, but at larger events it will certainly be a contender). Boseiju, on the other hand, is easily wasteland-able, and can't really be sided in vs. delvers because it has to live 2 full turns before it is useful. What do you think? Anybody else with experience playing Grid, what do you think?
I agree with you about surgical and deluge - I'm playing them only because my local meta has enough D&T/Maverick/Dredge for those cards to be important. At a larger tourney, I probably wouldn't play them.
What do you folks think about Lotus Petal in the main? I'm playing 2, in place of a land and a Preordain. I haven't seen them in more than 1 game over 7 matches, though, so I don't really know good they are :\

Next local, I'm going to try a Foresight/Lim Dul's Vault build with 2 Emmy and no Enter main. I'll let you know how it goes.

Delver have only soft counters that you can play around it(daze, spell pierce) and FoW.
We have 4 FoW and 2 Pact/Flusterstorm + 4 cunning wish that can found another Pact or Fluster.

I really don't see a reason to use Grid in this deck.

Against Stoneblade, Miracles and other kind of hard counterspell deck the Boseiju does the job well.

Again, surgical is not needed since we already have Noxious revival against Reanimate decks.

I Don't play with Petal for the same reason that I play with only 3 sol lands. We don't need to be fast and go off on turn one or two. We need to make the table with lands, sculpt the hand using cantrips and then go off when you are secure that you cannot be stoppable. Resilience.

[pandaman]

I can see how Defence Grid is attractive against Delver. Against RUG, it shuts off their interaction with anything but our instant-speed cantrips and slows them down by forcing them to (usually) Bolt during their turn. Against BUG, it leaves them with discard as their only meaningful interaction and because BUG doesn't have the reach of RUG, we have more time for our hand to recover. However, is it really necessary if you're playing a swathe of basic lands, sol lands you can save until your combo turn to assist playing around soft counters, Brainstorm and Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce to answer/mitigate hand disruption, and eight to 10 counterspells of your own? I have asked that question of myself a lot and my current answer is no, and that I would rather shore up genuinely bad matchups like Storm, Sneak 'n Show, and Reanimator.

[rlesko]

Omnitell is a deck I've been interested in running for a while and I'm finally collecting the last few pieces I had a few questions about the most recent lists.

-the inclusion of firemind's foresight and impulse without enter the infinite
I'm familiar with cunning wish -> firemind's foresight -> get cunning wish, impulse, and cantrip (brainstorm). How often does this win? I was under the impression this combo used to be included in the Dream Halls lists just to net blue cards to keep the combo going. Or is this just something you go for if you already have emrakul in hand?

-only having 4 combo "enablers" (only 4 show and tell as opposed to 4 show and tell +dream halls in previous versions)
It seems like with the printing of dig through time dream halls stopped being included. Is it just not necessary with all of the digging (pun not intended) the deck can do now? It is never problematic to find just 1 show and tell?

-intuition
It is one of my favorite cards. Should I play it or not?

-Leyline of Sanctity
Is this card necessary for the sideboard?

thanks!

[laserstone]

Omnitell is a deck I've been interested in running for a while and I'm finally collecting the last few pieces I had a few questions about the most recent lists.

-the inclusion of firemind's foresight and impulse without enter the infinite
I'm familiar with cunning wish -> firemind's foresight -> get cunning wish, impulse, and cantrip (brainstorm). How often does this win? I was under the impression this combo used to be included in the Dream Halls lists just to net blue cards to keep the combo going. Or is this just something you go for if you already have emrakul in hand?

-only having 4 combo "enablers" (only 4 show and tell as opposed to 4 show and tell +dream halls in previous versions)
It seems like with the printing of dig through time dream halls stopped being included. Is it just not necessary with all of the digging (pun not intended) the deck can do now? It is never problematic to find just 1 show and tell?

-intuition
It is one of my favorite cards. Should I play it or not?

-Leyline of Sanctity
Is this card necessary for the sideboard?

thanks!

Hey, I've been playing omni for a while now. The deck is an absolute house. My winrate in the past three months has been obscene - easily 80% or above.

1) I am a recent adopter of FF, and I'm really liking it. Enter is so awful in the main; I'm happy that I no longer have to get stuck on show+enter, and spots are opened for tech like petals, or just extra cantrips. You have enough instant cantrips that impulse will often find you omni or emrakul, but there is the chance that you won't get there. I'm playing black, so I recently switched my Impulse for Lim Dul's Vault, and I'm loving the extra consistency it offers the foresight kill.

2) We have more than enough digging power to consistently find our combo pieces. Dig through time is just so incredibly powerful. Omni's game plan is more to sculpt an unbeatable hand than to jam threats until one gets through, so 1 show is usually enough, but it's never much trouble finding a second if you need one. I play a singleton dream halls main, which often gets sided out, but it's nice to know that I have outs to a random surgical on show, or a meddling mage. You really hate it when you don't need it, and it's invaluable when you do.

3) I play 1 intuition main, and like it as flexible combo piece #2. More than one starts slowing down the deck, and I was never happy finding 2 intuition in my hand when I tried 2 main. Intuition as a wish target was fine, but I replaced it with dig and haven't looked back.

Hope this helps! Other sourcers, please feel free to call me out on anything I said. I love a good debate, and I love to learn.

[Dziga Murnau]

Hey, I've been playing omni for a while now. The deck is an absolute house. My winrate in the past three months has been obscene - easily 80% or above.

1) I am a recent adopter of FF, and I'm really liking it. Enter is so awful in the main; I'm happy that I no longer have to get stuck on show+enter, and spots are opened for tech like petals, or just extra cantrips. You have enough instant cantrips that impulse will often find you omni or emrakul, but there is the chance that you won't get there. I'm playing black, so I recently switched my Impulse for Lim Dul's Vault, and I'm loving the extra consistency it offers the foresight kill.

2) We have more than enough digging power to consistently find our combo pieces. Dig through time is just so incredibly powerful. Omni's game plan is more to sculpt an unbeatable hand than to jam threats until one gets through, so 1 show is usually enough, but it's never much trouble finding a second if you need one. I play a singleton dream halls main, which often gets sided out, but it's nice to know that I have outs to a random surgical on show, or a meddling mage. You really hate it when you don't need it, and it's invaluable when you do.

3) I play 1 intuition main, and like it as flexible combo piece #2. More than one starts slowing down the deck, and I was never happy finding 2 intuition in my hand when I tried 2 main. Intuition as a wish target was fine, but I replaced it with dig and haven't looked back.

Hope this helps! Other sourcers, please feel free to call me out on anything I said. I love a good debate, and I love to learn.

Looks like I've got an ally for LDV in main) Can you share your decklist?

[Tokugawa]

Yasooka Shota(former player of the year) achieved 9-0 in GP Kyoto day1, with Omnitell. Can't wait to see his decklist...

[kuroko16]

Yasooka Shota(former player of the year) achieved 9-0 in GP Kyoto day1, with Omnitell. Can't wait to see his decklist...



Can you copy here the list when you find it? Thanks:smile:

[Esper3k]

Looks like he's playing a red splash:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpkyo15/shota-yasooka-omnitell-vs-hayato-kawachi-death-and-taxes-2015-04-17

[anakyn]

Hello everyone :)

I started testing this deck yesterday playing some pre-board games vs Team America, Stile/Pierce/Confidant version.
I found the matchup really difficult: between their fast clock, massive & cheap disruption and utility creatures (Confidant makes them draw more counters, Deathrite delays our DTT while dealing us damage), I found it's too much to fight through.

The first turns are spent sculpting our hand with cantrips, but they often fall prey of Pierce and Daze, so many times I just can't find the combo pieces before I'm dead to their threats.
If I FOW / Fluster their cheap counterspells on my cantrips, or if I FOW their Delver / Confidant, then I have no protection against their FOWs when I try to combo.

I haven't tried any post-board games yet, but I guess that they are even worse: we have Defense grid, but they have more discard and more Flusterstorms, and they can always Decay the Grid.


Have you got any suggestions regarding this matchup? Thanks in advance.

[Tokugawa]

Looks like he's playing a red splash:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpkyo15/shota-yasooka-omnitell-vs-hayato-kawachi-death-and-taxes-2015-04-17
And according to the report of Round 9, he had some pyromancer sideboard strategy.

[kuroko16]

Lightning Bolt ???????

[Ruckusmh]

And according to the report of Round 9, he had some pyromancer sideboard strategy.

Can you link this?

From when I was watching the coverage in round four he was playing a single Bolt presumably out of the side, as well as pyroclasms and at least 2 young pyromancer. Unusual, but obviously it's working for him.

I know there was some discussion a few pages back about Monastery Mentor out of the side and YP is sort of like that as well.

[KobeBryan]

Looks like that guy death was on the right track with playing both red, cunning wish, and burning wish.

[laserstone]

Looks like I've got an ally for LDV in main) Can you share your decklist?

Creatures
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Intuition

Sorceries
2 Preordain
3 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments
4 Omniscience
1 Dream Halls

Artifacts
2 Lotus Petal

Lands
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Polluted Delta
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Flooded Strand
5 Island
2 Underground Sea

Board:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Rushing River
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Release the Ants
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Dig through Time
2 Massacre
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

I'm already playing black, so LDV comes at no extra cost. It's incredibly powerful normally, and best of all, I can now cut Enter entirely because Foresight with LDV is as good, if not better, than Enter (which puts you at risk of decking) (also, Enter is an awful card to have in the main deck).

[Windmill]

Just because someone does well with cards doesn't mean they're good for everybody to play. I don't for one minute believe that lightning bolt is a good card for the deck to play.

That said, I'm still saving up for my Volcanic Islands as my next card/s to get.

[KobeBryan]

Just because someone does well with cards doesn't mean they're good for everybody to play. I don't for one minute believe that lightning bolt is a good card for the deck to play.

That said, I'm still saving up for my Volcanic Islands as my next card/s to get.

I agree. If anything, sudden shock is better

[Tokugawa]

Can you copy here the list when you find it? Thanks:smile:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpkyo15/9-0-decklists-2015-04-18

here are the decklists.

3 of them are Omnitell.

[Brentane]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpkyo15/9-0-decklists-2015-04-18

here are the decklists.

3 of them are Omnitell.

This is very interesting. None of them use Leyline of Sanctity. Does anyone else think we should not need them anymore?

[Tokugawa]

This is very interesting. None of them use Leyline of Sanctity. Does anyone else think we should not need them anymore?
After print of DTT, it is less painful to recovery from 1-for-1 discards. Won't bring Leylines unless my meta is filled with Hymn decks...

[laserstone]

After print of DTT, it is less painful to recovery from 1-for-1 discards. Won't bring Leylines unless my meta is filled with Hymn decks...

Keep in mind that their red splash was probably a meta call - IIRC they were expecting lots of UR and RUG delver. Leyline probably wasn't necessary when only a small portion of their meta was playing black.

[Kanti]

Question about this deck. Does anyone else thingsplashing a USea main-deck really worth it just to run 1 Snuff Out in the sb? I understand that you can cast it g1, but woudn't dodging Wasteland and just Wishing for like a Chain of Vapor be better, in some senses? Not sure if this is just a corner case with the deck I'm looking at in the top 8 of the GP, but man, that seems bold. Same for the lists running Massacre in a sense. Woudn't it be better to just stick to Ur unless you are running stuff like Duress?

[Windmill]

What I find very interesting is that they're all running 2-3 sol lands.

So I did some test games against affinity (big in my local meta) and I got DESTROYED. An easy match-up was brutal because they won the dice roll. They'd kill me turn 4, whereas I was killing them on turn 4. Unless I got a T3 combo I was dead. And getting a T3 combo is not very consistent for me. I get it consistently on T4, not T3, that is more of a lucky draw. I find I usually get T3 combos when I started with a combo piece in hand - a hand of cantrips will be risky to find the combo by T3.

Made me wonder if I should play with more sol lands (up it to 4-5) so I can play intuition on T2 against aggressive decks to combo out on T3.

Of course, a Grand Prix is an entirely different situation and there you wouldn't expect to play against much Affinity. The fast decks I'm guessing you'd expect at a GP would be faster combo. And 2/3 of those Omni lists were running 8 counterspells main instead of the usual 7.

[kuroko16]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=04/18/2015&end_date=04/19/2015&start=1&finish=16&event_ID=45&city=Providence



:eek::eek:

5 omnitell :smile::smile::smile:

[YamiJoey]

Affinity isn't a good deck.

*The More You Know logo*

[Tokugawa]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=3&start_date=04/18/2015&end_date=04/19/2015&start=1&finish=16&event_ID=45&city=Providence



:eek::eek:

5 omnitell :smile::smile::smile:


This result is not surprising. Omnitell had abnormal poor results in the last few SCG IQs before this one. Few top16 apperance, and out-of-time builds(just like MD 3+ halls). This deck has its raw power, it won't always underperform, yeah?

However, Omnitell would be talked as "public enemy" by crowds in next weeks.:mad: More hate is coming...more REB,choke,canonist,Chris Pikula...what you expect to see?

[Star|Scream]

I hate discussing budget here, but what is the ideal sol land manabase? Can you get by on tombs/petals or are cities absolutely necessary?

[YamiJoey]

I play 1 Ancient Tomb and 2 Crystal Vein. It only really works because I'm playing Burning Wish, I think. If you have a high reliance on Cunning Wishing for things before you go off then it almost certainly isn't good enough.

[laserstone]

Anyone able to offer advice on how to approach the Omnitell mirror?

[twndomn]

Anyone able to offer advice on how to approach the Omnitell mirror?

Not gonna pretend I'm an expert. However, this GP Kyoto Top 8 video pretty much answered your question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwQVaz8Nr9U&t=1h21m52s

[Curtis Dittmar]

Anyone able to offer advice on how to approach the Omnitell mirror?

Dream Halls is really good in the mirror.

[Karhumies]

Anyone able to offer advice on how to approach the Omnitell mirror?

Dream Halls is the key card.

Other great cards post-board:
Defense Grid (prevents opponent from going for Instant Ants win off your SnT)

Surgical Extraction (if opponent is going the FF or Intuition route you can deny their plan)

Counters to FF / DtT / Ants / EtI / Emrakul

Edit:
Running 2+ Emrakul for additional extra turns also helps. Ants can be foiled by an opposing Brainstorm.

[Mackan]

Dream Halls is the key card.

Other great cards post-board:
Defense Grid (prevents opponent from going for Instant Ants win off your SnT)

Surgical Extraction (if opponent is going the FF or Intuition route you can deny their plan)

Counters to FF / DtT / Ants / EtI / Emrakul

Edit:
Running 2+ Emrakul for additional extra turns also helps. Ants can be foiled by an opposing Brainstorm.

Dream halls is 1) not played in most lists 2) not good in the mirror. With a stock list I recommend patience and trying to resolve DTT protected with counterspells at the opponent's eot. Sometimes you can Gitaxian Probe and see that the coast is clear but that's not very common. If you want to improve the matchup you should not include Dream Halls but jace, vendilion clique, young pyromancer or thoughtseize or more fringe stuff I didn't test Including Notion theif, snapcaster mage or tasigur.

Defense grid can be good but it's application is far more narrow than anything. It's more likely your opponent will benefit more from this unless you can play it and go off in the same turn (and your opponent can't counter the show and tell).

Surgical extraction is not that great either. I would not side it in as it's a mulligan more than not. It could be wished for in the case of intuition but in most other cases I would rather have anything else.

[MGB]

Question for the Omni players here:

What is the most *effective* hate piece against this deck? What do you guys lose to more often than anything else?

[emidln]

Dream halls is 1) not played in most lists 2) not good in the mirror. With a stock list I recommend patience and trying to resolve DTT protected with counterspells at the opponent's eot. Sometimes you can Gitaxian Probe and see that the coast is clear but that's not very common. If you want to improve the matchup you should not include Dream Halls but jace, vendilion clique, young pyromancer or thoughtseize or more fringe stuff I didn't test Including Notion theif, snapcaster mage or tasigur.

Defense grid can be good but it's application is far more narrow than anything. It's more likely your opponent will benefit more from this unless you can play it and go off in the same turn (and your opponent can't counter the show and tell).

Surgical extraction is not that great either. I would not side it in as it's a mulligan more than not. It could be wished for in the case of intuition but in most other cases I would rather have anything else.

Dream Halls is outstanding in the mirror. Your side out all Show and Tells. You play the same (or more) instant-speed solutions than your opponent (making their SnT a crap shoot), but you can combo on your turn with extra relevant cards in your deck (Enter the Infinite). Further, because you play Dream Halls and kill this turn, you actually get to play Pact of Negation. This is a huge advantage with a Dream Halls looming because you'll have more resources once the Dream Hall is in play. I'd take a Dream Halls list over a non-Dream Halls list for the mirror any day.

[KobeBryan]

Question for the Omni players here:

What is the most *effective* hate piece against this deck? What do you guys lose to more often than anything else?

Nothing specific.

Its a combination of discard and counters.

Thats the hardest thing to fight through.

[Baum]

Question for the Omni players here:

What is the most *effective* hate piece against this deck? What do you guys lose to more often than anything else?

Surgical Extraction on a discarded/countered Show and Tell or Slaughter Games win against versions without Dream Halls.

[KobeBryan]

Surgical Extraction on a discarded/countered Show and Tell or Slaughter Games win against versions without Dream Halls.

i forgot about that. Yes. That card is GG. The only good part is no one runs more than 2 copies.

[Adan]

Question for the Omni players here:

What is the most *effective* hate piece against this deck? What do you guys lose to more often than anything else?

Iona, Shield of Emeria.

[BaroqueW]

Question for the Omni players here:

What is the most *effective* hate piece against this deck? What do you guys lose to more often than anything else?

For me, discard (liliana, Raven's crime, hymn)+ surgical extraction or extirpate. Without Dream Halls or another alternative way to combo it is lights out.
Krosan grip on omniscience too can be a bane.

A lot of things you would otherwise think of (meddling Mage for instance) is just a hoop to jump through, not a problem as such unless you have a fast clock alongside it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BaroqueW]

Iona, Shield of Emeria.

That too. I am running a grixis build to have a chance against her (burning wish + black wishboard option) and discard/extirpate (burning wish for s&t). Never had the "chance" to face reanimator with that configuration though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KobeBryan]

Iona, Shield of Emeria.

not that hard. We have slaughter pact

[Patrunkenphat7]

Question for the Omni players here:

What is the most *effective* hate piece against this deck? What do you guys lose to more often than anything else?

I think Thoughtseize + Hymn is the hardest thing for this deck to deal with. The deck is very good in the Asian and European metas but might struggle a bit in the US where a lot of players jam Deathrite and discard. Obviously the deck did fine at the most recent SCG 5k, but it's just a great deck... I still think I'd try to find SB room for 4 Leylines in the US.

[lordofthepit]

Question for the Omni players here:

What is the most *effective* hate piece against this deck? What do you guys lose to more often than anything else?

I don't play Omni, but sandbagging a Ethersworn Canonist for Show and Tell with the ability to cast REB, Wear/Tear, etc. to destroy Omniscience after it gets cheated into play is a hardlock against over 95% of the Omniscience decks out there (barring shenanigans like hardcasting Omni or Emrakul).

Edit: they do have the ability to Show in Emrakul directly

[KobeBryan]

I don't play Omni, but sandbagging a Ethersworn Canonist for Show and Tell with the ability to cast REB, Wear/Tear, etc. to destroy Omniscience after it gets cheated into play is a hardlock against over 95% of the Omniscience decks out there (barring shenanigans like hardcasting Omni or Emrakul).

Edit: they do have the ability to Show in Emrakul directly

That is not hard at all to overcome.

Discard and counters are the most difficult hate to deal with...i.e. BUG

[lordofthepit]

That is not hard at all to overcome.

Discard and counters are the most difficult hate to deal with...i.e. BUG

You'll have to explain to me how a single card that locks out the entire Omniscience plan while being resistant to countermagic or removal on the combo turn, enabling the opponent to blow up Omniscience before you can do anything, is "not hard at all to overcome", while discard and counters is so much more difficult for a deck with 16-17 cantrips, 4 Digs, and your own pile of interaction.

[KobeBryan]

You'll have to explain to me how a single card that locks out the entire Omniscience plan while being resistant to countermagic or removal on the combo turn, enabling the opponent to blow up Omniscience before you can do anything, is "not hard at all to overcome", while discard and counters is so much more difficult for a deck with 16-17 cantrips, 4 Digs, and your own pile of interaction.

So the card makes us can't cast more than one spell.

We can EOT your turn, get sudden shock.

On our turn, we sudden shock it, go off.

Its not like we aren't backed by counters to stop your wear tear/REB. Also, once Omni is in play, we can do a variety of instants to protect it from REB or wear tear. Of course it won't happen every single time, but if you lock us with a ethersworn, its not going to hinder our entire deck.

Like i said, a combination of discard and counters are the most annoying.

[YamiJoey]

Canonist is really slow, that's why. If they put a Canonist in off a S/T and don't have lethal or an answer to Omni on their turn, they have lost. You will be able to cast a Spell (ie. Cunning Wish) on their turn, and then a Spell (ie. Wipe Away) on yours. If you were relying on Sorceries like Burning Wish or an Enter the Infinite, then it can be a problem.

It's a card that can definitely kill you, but we do have answers to, and the ability to play around.

[kkkant]

I think you people are failing to see lordofthepit's point. He says if you play show and tell, and the opponent lets it resolves, puts a cannonist in play and then plays a pyroblast targeting omniscience is just like game over for us, since we cant respond.

[KobeBryan]

I think you people are failing to see lordofthepit's point. He says if you play show and tell, and the opponent lets it resolves, puts a cannonist in play and then plays a pyroblast targeting omniscience is just like game over for us, since we cant respond.

Its not game over.

We start over again.

[Mackan]

Dream Halls is outstanding in the mirror. Your side out all Show and Tells. You play the same (or more) instant-speed solutions than your opponent (making their SnT a crap shoot), but you can combo on your turn with extra relevant cards in your deck (Enter the Infinite). Further, because you play Dream Halls and kill this turn, you actually get to play Pact of Negation. This is a huge advantage with a Dream Halls looming because you'll have more resources once the Dream Hall is in play. I'd take a Dream Halls list over a non-Dream Halls list for the mirror any day.

First of all, our lists are very different. I don't think Enter the Infinite is necessary which is why I don't run Dream Halls in my list as it can't cast Emrakul (and casting Omniscience is not enough). It costs a huge amount of mana and the symmetrical aspect is really hurting in legacy as everyone and their mom play with blue counterspells. I really like PoN but since I am on the Emrakul plan (and not even rTA) I choose to run flusterstorm (and thoughtseize) over it. Given your current setup with PoN I think Dream Halls is fine in the mirror but it's still not great. It takes a huge amount of resources to set up. First you need 5 mana, then dream halls, then Eit+blue. This is about 4 cards just to get going and given how Dream halls is symmetrical your opponent will be able to resolve dtt, flusterstorm etc with Eti on the stack... that can't be good. Even if you can cast PoN for free. Sometimes you have enough PoN to back it up and sometimes your opponent have no acces to flusterstorm but I think it's more likely your Eti will get countered and your opponent will resolve Omniscience by removing a Ponder and then you are down on cards and battle Dream halls vs Omniscience.

The ONLY reliable way to win in the mirror in my opinion is to grind your opponent down resolving DTT and then play show and tell (preferably of a Boseiju)->omniscience->emrakul and counter their cunning wishes for trickbind on the emrakul trigger. This can backfire, of course, if your opponent has 6 lands in play and omniscience+emrakul in hand and you are below 16 life and 5 lands. Or if he get lucky with RtA. But I'll take that if it ever happens.

I still side out some show and tell as they are the worst cards in the deck by far. Hopefully my patience will result in a perfect 8-9 card hand when I go off or a punt from my opponent that lets me put omniscience into play and resolve more spells than him.

Like I wrote in my earlier post the mirror is pretty silly and if you expect a lot of Omnishow (which is probably correct) you can add another angle including Jace, Young Pyromancer, Venser, shaper savant, Notion Thief, Vendilion Clique, Delver of Secrets (not recommended) or just more disruption like reb, thoughtseize, swan song etc.

[Baum]

Its not game over.

We start over again.


Of course we can recover from Canonist into Pyroblast. But if the opponent has a reasonable clock in play, things can get ugly.

Besides, I went 6:0 at a local tournament last Sunday with a UB List:


4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
2 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
3 Thoughtseize
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
5 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Sideboard:

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Defense Grid
2 Massacre
2 Pack Rat
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Swan Song
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Wipe Away


The matchups were:

Sneak Show – 2:0
Belcher – 2:1
Maverick – 2:0
Aggro Elves (WTF?) – 2:0
BUG Delver – 2:1
RUG Delver – 2:0

Thoughtseize and Massacre proved to be awesome before and after someone suggested Lim-Dûl's Vault over here, I decided to try it out.

LDV is just great to find the combo and provides a 100% save RtA Kill at instant speed (and we can cut Trickbind). So I ran 2 to use one to fetch my combo pieces and one for the win. Against Belcher and BUG Delver there were situations where LDV was the only card to get me out, searching up both the missing piece and Dig Through Time to start the cantrip chain.

I went down to 3 Dig, because multiple Digs can be somewhat clunky. I would love to play the 4th Dig as a Wish target, but I couldn't find room in the sideboard. Without LDV I would still play 4 Dig in the maindeck.

I'm not completely sold on the Swamp, but with Discard/Massacre/LDV I want to keep my black source for a couple of turns. Another non blue land hurts the manabase though...

The Pack Rats were a spontaneous inclusion after I saw the list with SB Young Pyromancer at GP Kyoto on Saturday evening. The Rats should be great against Miracles since they board out StP and Terminus. Playing against good Miracles players can be difficult, because Vendilion Clique and Venser are a pain in the ass and Counterbalance is difficult to overcome if they have a 3 on top and don't screw it up. A resolved Pack Rat wins in 3 attacks.
Having a win condition besides Show and Tell should be good in the mirror, too.

Hurkyl's Recall is a nod to my local metagame, which has an above average number of MUD and Lands.

Moving forward, I'll cut the 2 Defense Grids for another Boseiju and a counterspell (Spell Pierce or Swan Song). Defense Grid is just bad against Miracles (you can't counter a mainphase Clique, which is their best card) and BUG Delver (you can't counter their discard, you can't brainstorm in response).

[Adan]

Iona, Shield of Emeria
not that hard. We have slaughter pact

With Iona on board, you have no possibility to tutor or dig for that singleton Slaughter Pact. And even if you manage to somehow have it, you need at least one black source available to ensure that you don't die to the delayed trigger and in addition to everything you must pray that the opponent isn't able to counter it.

Oh, and she beats your face in within 3 turns. 3 turns to find a random singleton card that you don't even really want to board in against Reanimator.

If you think this is "not that hard", then you obviously have never played this deck at all. You should just stop posting in here.

Anyway, I wanted to discuss the general trend of this deck as I've been living under the rock when it comes to Legacy. When I played OmniHalls last time, I played emidln's build (the one with 4 Halls, 4 CWish, singleton Trickbind or Impulse MD and Firemind's Foresight in the board, with CWish --> R&D --> LabMan kill in the SB).


Nowadays, Dream Halls have been dropped entirely from the lists (it's appearing here and there, but the general consensus is that seems to be obsolete in the age of DTT). This leads to the question how efficiently this deck manages to assemble the 2 card combo that is SnT --> Omniscience, and what it can do once it does. As Carsten Kötter said in his article, the endgame of OmniShow plays a bit like High Tide, once Omniscience hits the board, you are basically just generating a lot of value with cantrips and DTT until you find a game-ender (Emrakul, directly or indirectly via Wish --> Eladamri's Call).

This plan seems to work out quite well, if you can efficiently resolve DTT, that is. You can accomplish this by running either Gitaxian Probe or Thoughtseize when splashing black.

Now, the way the deck looks like right now forces you to substitute Pact of Negation for something else that will do better in a grindy matchup - I played Flusterstorms for quite a time, but sometimes I'm asking myself whether Spell Pierce is not the better card overall, since it's more flexible. Being able to hit things like SDT and Counterbalance is actually key against Miracles, Spell Pierce on Aether Vial really impacts DnT as it also kinda prevents them to Rishadan Port you aggressively, and hitting things like LED against Dredge or Liliana of the Veil in addition to Thoughtseize/Hymn against Value-BUGs also seems very nice.

The basic gist is that Pierce is the card that is better at dragging you into the mid- and lategame where the chances of you winning become higher and higher while at the same time fueling DTT. How do people feel about Flusterstorm vs. Spell Pierce?

[KobeBryan]

With Iona on board, you have no possibility to tutor or dig for that singleton Slaughter Pact. And even if you manage to somehow have it, you need at least one black source available to ensure that you don't die to the delayed trigger and in addition to everything you must pray that the opponent isn't able to counter it.

Oh, and she beats your face in within 3 turns. 3 turns to find a random singleton card that you don't even really want to board in against Reanimator.

If you think this is "not that hard", then you obviously have never played this deck at all. You should just stop posting in here.

Anyway, I wanted to discuss the general trend of this deck as I've been living under the rock when it comes to Legacy. When I played OmniHalls last time, I played emidln's build (the one with 4 Halls, 4 CWish, singleton Trickbind or Impulse MD and Firemind's Foresight in the board, with CWish --> R&D --> LabMan kill in the SB).


Nowadays, Dream Halls have been dropped entirely from the lists (it's appearing here and there, but the general consensus is that seems to be obsolete in the age of DTT). This leads to the question how efficiently this deck manages to assemble the 2 card combo that is SnT --> Omniscience, and what it can do once it does. As Carsten Kötter said in his article, the endgame of OmniShow plays a bit like High Tide, once Omniscience hits the board, you are basically just generating a lot of value with cantrips and DTT until you find a game-ender (Emrakul, directly or indirectly via Wish --> Eladamri's Call).

This plan seems to work out quite well, if you can efficiently resolve DTT, that is. You can accomplish this by running either Gitaxian Probe or Thoughtseize when splashing black.

Now, the way the deck looks like right now forces you to substitute Pact of Negation for something else that will do better in a grindy matchup - I played Flusterstorms for quite a time, but sometimes I'm asking myself whether Spell Pierce is not the better card overall, since it's more flexible. Being able to hit things like SDT and Counterbalance is actually key against Miracles, Spell Pierce on Aether Vial really impacts DnT as it also kinda prevents them to Rishadan Port you aggressively, and hitting things like LED against Dredge or Liliana of the Veil in addition to Thoughtseize/Hymn against Value-BUGs also seems very nice.

The basic gist is that Pierce is the card that is better at dragging you into the mid- and lategame where the chances of you winning become higher and higher while at the same time fueling DTT. How do people feel about Flusterstorm vs. Spell Pierce?

When was the last time you even saw Iona.

The decks that pack it you have a 30% win percentage against them.

You will be losing to them despite Iona even seeing the board

You have 4 cunning wish. If you see an Iona in the gy. You better be getting your pact or you aren't that good.

[jorke88]

When Bug was ramping about a year or two ago it was more like a 50/50 against them because landing a leyline was really goood against them. They'd usually only have 1 piece of disruption which was really easy to roll through. The deck is not as fast as U/r or Rug, so with a leyline in play you had all the time in the world to shape your hand before going off.

[Uroborian]

Has any of you (all) had the displeasure of having opponent play Display of Dominance? Its been talked about on other forums as a SB card, Versus Omni and Miracles, and wondering what are your thought on them using it against you? Is it something to play around?

[Macky984]

Has any of you (all) had the displeasure of having opponent play Display of Dominance? Its been talked about on other forums as a SB card, Versus Omni and Miracles, and wondering what are your thought on them using it against you? Is it something to play around?

I havn't seen it. It seems like there are way better options in the sideboard that would be played over this card. Red Blast & Abrupt Decay being some of them.

Here's my Omni-Tell list... and I will say that I got rid of my last Enter the Infinite for an Intuition... and that has made a HUGE difference.

http://deckstats.net/decks/15202/224361-macky-s-omni-tell?saved=1&lng=en

[KobeBryan]

Of course we can recover from Canonist into Pyroblast. But if the opponent has a reasonable clock in play, things can get ugly.

Besides, I went 6:0 at a local tournament last Sunday with a UB List:


4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
2 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
3 Thoughtseize
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
5 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

Sideboard:

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Defense Grid
2 Massacre
2 Pack Rat
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Swan Song
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Wipe Away


The matchups were:

Sneak Show – 2:0
Belcher – 2:1
Maverick – 2:0
Aggro Elves (WTF?) – 2:0
BUG Delver – 2:1
RUG Delver – 2:0

Thoughtseize and Massacre proved to be awesome before and after someone suggested Lim-Dûl's Vault over here, I decided to try it out.

LDV is just great to find the combo and provides a 100% save RtA Kill at instant speed (and we can cut Trickbind). So I ran 2 to use one to fetch my combo pieces and one for the win. Against Belcher and BUG Delver there were situations where LDV was the only card to get me out, searching up both the missing piece and Dig Through Time to start the cantrip chain.

I went down to 3 Dig, because multiple Digs can be somewhat clunky. I would love to play the 4th Dig as a Wish target, but I couldn't find room in the sideboard. Without LDV I would still play 4 Dig in the maindeck.

I'm not completely sold on the Swamp, but with Discard/Massacre/LDV I want to keep my black source for a couple of turns. Another non blue land hurts the manabase though...

The Pack Rats were a spontaneous inclusion after I saw the list with SB Young Pyromancer at GP Kyoto on Saturday evening. The Rats should be great against Miracles since they board out StP and Terminus. Playing against good Miracles players can be difficult, because Vendilion Clique and Venser are a pain in the ass and Counterbalance is difficult to overcome if they have a 3 on top and don't screw it up. A resolved Pack Rat wins in 3 attacks.
Having a win condition besides Show and Tell should be good in the mirror, too.

Hurkyl's Recall is a nod to my local metagame, which has an above average number of MUD and Lands.

Moving forward, I'll cut the 2 Defense Grids for another Boseiju and a counterspell (Spell Pierce or Swan Song). Defense Grid is just bad against Miracles (you can't counter a mainphase Clique, which is their best card) and BUG Delver (you can't counter their discard, you can't brainstorm in response).

Every deck gets ugly when there's a clock and no way to stop it or win.

[Arksz]

Since discards tend to wreck house what do people think about Leyline of Sanctity? I see most lists seem to forgo it.

[Kanti]

The Wishboard is huge, and running x4 DTT helps tons vs discard. Honestly not too afraid of discard when I have a playset of Ponder, Preordains, and Brainstorms working in tandem with Dig through Time, not to mention the 1-of Impulse, and Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm that the deck is running. Discard really isn't that big a deal.

[pandaman]

First of all, our lists are very different. I don't think Enter the Infinite is necessary which is why I don't run Dream Halls in my list as it can't cast Emrakul (and casting Omniscience is not enough). It costs a huge amount of mana and the symmetrical aspect is really hurting in legacy as everyone and their mom play with blue counterspells. I really like PoN but since I am on the Emrakul plan (and not even rTA) I choose to run flusterstorm (and thoughtseize) over it. Given your current setup with PoN I think Dream Halls is fine in the mirror but it's still not great. It takes a huge amount of resources to set up. First you need 5 mana, then dream halls, then Eit+blue. This is about 4 cards just to get going and given how Dream halls is symmetrical your opponent will be able to resolve dtt, flusterstorm etc with Eti on the stack... that can't be good. Even if you can cast PoN for free. Sometimes you have enough PoN to back it up and sometimes your opponent have no acces to flusterstorm but I think it's more likely your Eti will get countered and your opponent will resolve Omniscience by removing a Ponder and then you are down on cards and battle Dream halls vs Omniscience.

The ONLY reliable way to win in the mirror in my opinion is to grind your opponent down resolving DTT and then play show and tell (preferably of a Boseiju)->omniscience->emrakul and counter their cunning wishes for trickbind on the emrakul trigger. This can backfire, of course, if your opponent has 6 lands in play and omniscience+emrakul in hand and you are below 16 life and 5 lands. Or if he get lucky with RtA. But I'll take that if it ever happens.

I still side out some show and tell as they are the worst cards in the deck by far. Hopefully my patience will result in a perfect 8-9 card hand when I go off or a punt from my opponent that lets me put omniscience into play and resolve more spells than him.

Like I wrote in my earlier post the mirror is pretty silly and if you expect a lot of Omnishow (which is probably correct) you can add another angle including Jace, Young Pyromancer, Venser, shaper savant, Notion Thief, Vendilion Clique, Delver of Secrets (not recommended) or just more disruption like reb, thoughtseize, swan song etc.

Remember, emidln is running the LabMan kill and no Emrakul, which means his list abuses Dream Halls to its fullest potential. So the strategy you are proposing to win the mirror probably doesn't apply as well against his version, where Dream Halls will, as he explains, give him an advantage over the now conventional Emrakul/Dig Through Time build without EtI and Halls.

[Macky984]

The Wishboard is huge, and running x4 DTT helps tons vs discard. Honestly not too afraid of discard when I have a playset of Ponder, Preordains, and Brainstorms working in tandem with Dig through Time, not to mention the 1-of Impulse, and Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm that the deck is running. Discard really isn't that big a deal.

Discard is actually a bigger deal than it seems. Sure we have lots of Cantrips and ways to draw cards. But as with just about any combo deck... Our hand is typically fragile and Thoughtseizes and Hymns really hurt. Depending on the meta and which shop I'm at... I'll most likely have at least 3 Leyline of Sanctity's in the board.

[Karhumies]

Regarding problematic cards:
We are a 2 card combo deck, and we need to hold both pieces in hand simultaneously in order to go off. Any effect which takes out one of those pieces from hand (discards, clique) or worse, exiles them from our library (surgical, extirpate) are terrible for us. Counters, especially free ones, can also be problematic, but only if the opponent has a decent clock forcing us to go off without Boseiju or with a hand unsuited for a counter war. Basically, black is the color of evil followed by blue.

Regarding the mirror match:
If our plan is to SnT->Omniscience->Emrakul, the risk is that the opponent will drop an Omni of their own off our SnT.

If this happens, the opponent should not be going for C.Wish->Trickbind.They should be going for C.Wish->Firemind's Foresight->Ants win. If our Emrakul is on the stack, the opponent has a great opportunity to win clashes and Ants us for lethal.

The beauty in Dream Halls is that although symmetric, it does not open up the Ants win con for the opponent, and chances are the Dream Halls version has been built to exploit EtI whereas the "mirror" opponent does not even run any.

[Adan]

Discard is actually a bigger deal than it seems. Sure we have lots of Cantrips and ways to draw cards. But as with just about any combo deck... Our hand is typically fragile and Thoughtseizes and Hymns really hurt. Depending on the meta and which shop I'm at... I'll most likely have at least 3 Leyline of Sanctity's in the board.

What's bothering me about Leyline is the fact that you have to mulligan into it; and decks with discard actually profit from you taking a lot of mulligans as it doesn't go well with your actual gameplan of assembling a 2-card-combo. And drawing any further Leylines in the mid- and lategame is like a time walk for your opponent. It makes me tilt really hard every time that happens.

Discard spells like Hymn and Thoughtseize can be countered with Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm (Pierce can also hit Lilianas), sometimes the damage can be minimized with a well-timed Brainstorm and Dig Through Time gives us an excellent card to recover from all that - this was not possible in the DreamHalls build that emidln proposed like 2 years ago or so.

If you are really worried about discard, I guess I'd prefer Monastery Siege. Conceptually the card should to everything you want, it either filters crap and fuels DTT at the same time or it protects you from discard.

[Baum]

The other thing I don't like about Leyline is that it's not great against decks with both discard and counterspells.

Against BUG Delver you can easily lose if you have a Leyline hand and they have mono counterspells. I'd rather board in additional counters to fight their discard 1 for 1.

Leyline is obviously awesome against stuff like Jund, but I haven't seen the deck in a long time.

[Karhumies]

Leyline is obviously awesome against stuff like Jund, but I haven't seen the deck in a long time.

In my last tournament, I round 1 lossed against Jund. Your meta may vary.

If you are looking for an all-around compromise SB slot, Divert is a reasonable option. It also works in counterwars. Competes with Flusterstorm and Swan Song depending on your meta. IMO, Spell Pierce and Pact of Negation are top MD contenders depending on your build. MD Flusterstorm not hitting opposing Liliana of the Veil after they have spot discarded us some can really hurt.

[pandaman]

In my last tournament, I round 1 lossed against Jund. Your meta may vary.

If you are looking for an all-around compromise SB slot, Divert is a reasonable option. It also works in counterwars. Competes with Flusterstorm and Swan Song depending on your meta. IMO, Spell Pierce and Pact of Negation are top MD contenders depending on your build. MD Flusterstorm not hitting opposing Liliana of the Veil after they have spot discarded us some can really hurt.
Could you explain your reasoning for Divert a little more? It seems that it's inferior to both Spell Pierce (doesn't counter Lilliana) and Flusterstorm (only one copy versus two and usually more from storm trigger). Do you think it's worth including over those cards purely for the possibility of creating value through a misdirected discard spell? And even then, it doesn't work against Duress and if you target a Cabal Therapy they'll just name Black Lotus and you've generated no value. I ran Divert in my Doomsday list but it was to protect my Laboratory Manic from Abrupt Decay. We don't need that function here.

[emidln]

Could you explain your reasoning for Divert a little more? It seems that it's inferior to both Spell Pierce (doesn't counter Lilliana) and Flusterstorm (only one copy versus two and usually more from storm trigger). Do you think it's worth including over those cards purely for the possibility of creating value through a misdirected discard spell? And even then, it doesn't work against Duress and if you target a Cabal Therapy they'll just name Black Lotus and you've generated no value. I ran Divert in my Doomsday list but it was to protect my Laboratory Manic from Abrupt Decay. We don't need that function here.

I suppose Divert is reasonable if you're more concerned with countering Thoughtseize and Hymn than the combo mirror. It's miserable to be holding Divert when your opponent casts a key spell like Glimpse, Show and Tell, etc.

[pandaman]

But both Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce counter Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach, and don't leave you miserable when someone rams a Glimpse or Show and Tell. I am sceptical about whether generating value off opponent's discard is worth not being able to counter such key spells.

[pandaman]

Flusterstorm has been serving me admirably in that regard. Although I'm occasionally miserable when someone casts a Liliana or a Jace. I was thinking about a 2/2 split of Pierce/Flusterstorm for that reason.

[Karhumies]

Could you explain your reasoning for Divert a little more?

As far as the sideboard goes, running less than 4 white Leylines against discard seems unoptimal because you need to mulligan into it. Running 4 Leylines robs you from a lot of SB space, depleting the wish board. If there is significantly more Hymn to Tourach and Thoughtseize in the metagame than there is storm, Divert becomes a viable side board option over Flusterstorm. Hitting a Hymn with Divert is especially profitable for us, and can almost single handedly buy us enough time to win that game compared to "only" Spell Piercing the Hymn.

Of course, what you should be using in the SB depends on what you are running MD. If you are not runnign any Spell Pierce in the main, then in that case, yes Spell Pierce is an even better catch-all one mana counter in the SB. But supposing that you already have some Spell Pierce in the main, then in that case the selection of additional counters to use in the SB (instead of using white Leylines) is not very clear cut IMO. Especially if you are playing in a small-ish FLGS metagame and have knowledge about what decks you will be running into a lot in the tournament.

Divert also has some very fringe/niche uses. One of the less infrequent ones is finding out g1 opponent is running Stifles, in which case you can bring Diverts in and only fetch in response to the opponent's fetches with a blue mana open for Divert.

tl;dr Lots of Hymn to Tourach and Stifle in the meta without a lot of storm decks -> Divert for "greedy" profit

[Karhumies]

...and in case you were wondering what some of the less frequent Divert uses are, here are a few:
Lightning Bolt into Goblin Guide
Sinkhole
non-Wipe Away Bounce aimed at Omniscience
Red Blast into opponent's blue permanent

Sure, these cards are played much less in contemporary decks than they used to back in the day. Furthermore, the current Decks to Beat on this forum run very few cards which target anything in the first place. Which is precisely why these are all fringe targets. Additionally, for pretty much all of them you are just happy enough to counter them without redirection. So Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach and Stifle (and blue counterspells, same as Spell Pierce but worse than Flusterstorm) is where it's at with Divert value.

[emidln]

The two most interesting things about LDV are that it makes the deck more stable and lets you cut all actual win conditions from the deck. You can purely play for Wish->FF->Wish+LDV+BS and then LDV+BS into more cantrips into another Wish. This requires having 2 wishes left, but is pretty reasonable. If you didn't want to be as greedy, you could also play Split Decision to get with FF with the upside that a lot of the time it can target someone (you or your opponent's Dig through Time). I want to run 3-4 LDV, and probably Lotus Petal to really maximize LDV (Petals make it more likely to negate the cost of your cantrip by using Brainstorm to find combo piece + petal). As an interesting aside, Petal really opens up the Mentor splash.

[Macky984]

I put a lot of thought into a black splash for hand disruption, massacre, ability to pay for Slaughter Pact and Lim Dul's Vault... but just having to fetch an underground sea and be open for a Wasteland really sucks.

I enjoy being virtually Wasteland proof :D

[pandaman]

I put a lot of thought into a black splash for hand disruption, massacre, ability to pay for Slaughter Pact and Lim Dul's Vault... but just having to fetch an underground sea and be open for a Wasteland really sucks.

I enjoy being virtually Wasteland proof :D
I board a Swamp, but I only bring in Black from the sideboard. Seas are juicy Wasteland targets indeed. But your Sold lands would survive longer!

[pandaman]

Also, I am considering ditching Slaughter Pact for Snuff Out. Thoughts?

[pandaman]

The two most interesting things about LDV are that it makes the deck more stable and lets you cut all actual win conditions from the deck. You can purely play for Wish->FF->Wish+LDV+BS and then LDV+BS into more cantrips into another Wish. This requires having 2 wishes left, but is pretty reasonable. If you didn't want to be as greedy, you could also play Split Decision to get with FF with the upside that a lot of the time it can target someone (you or your opponent's Dig through Time). I want to run 3-4 LDV, and probably Lotus Petal to really maximize LDV (Petals make it more likely to negate the cost of your cantrip by using Brainstorm to find combo piece + petal). As an interesting aside, Petal really opens up the Mentor splash.
Talking about your version (LabMan and sans Emrakul) aren't all win conditions already cut from your deck? Are your comments more directed towards the Emrakul/RtA version?

[Dziga Murnau]

The two most interesting things about LDV are that it makes the deck more stable and lets you cut all actual win conditions from the deck. You can purely play for Wish->FF->Wish+LDV+BS and then LDV+BS into more cantrips into another Wish. This requires having 2 wishes left, but is pretty reasonable. If you didn't want to be as greedy, you could also play Split Decision to get with FF with the upside that a lot of the time it can target someone (you or your opponent's Dig through Time). I want to run 3-4 LDV, and probably Lotus Petal to really maximize LDV (Petals make it more likely to negate the cost of your cantrip by using Brainstorm to find combo piece + petal). As an interesting aside, Petal really opens up the Mentor splash.

Why cut all the wincons? Live just one and then find it with LDV and win) be it Emri for Emri or Ants plan, or Enter for Maniac plan. Now I play a single LDV, because I found a way to effectively combo out with LDV in graveyard. I'll write how things turned out after today's Russian Legacy Championship.

[Tokugawa]

Also, I am considering ditching Slaughter Pact for Snuff Out. Thoughts?

It cannot hit Teeg.

[pandaman]

It cannot hit Teeg.
That's the deal-breaker then. Slaughter Pact stays. Thanks for reminding me, I haven't seen a Teeg in so long I had almost forgotten the card existed! But it would be embarrassing to run into one and get caught with your pants down, so to speak.

[YamiJoey]

Can I ask why we're playing Slaughter Pact, or is it exclusively a Black build card?

[Lans89]

Can I ask why we're playing Slaughter Pact, or is it exclusively a Black build card?

No it's played in almost every mono blue version. Slaughter Pact is good because it's cheap. You need that versus decks like D&T. But there are also situations like this:

You have 3 Islands and your show and tell combo in hand, but face a meddling mage on show and tell. You can cunning wish for slaughter pact (maybe at the end of your opponents turn). Pact the meddling mage in your next turn and still be able to win with your 3 Islands in play.

[YamiJoey]

Ah, so you do actually just cast it and die if it doesn't go well. That's fine. Wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I think Dismember is the safer SB option for mono-U.