[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

[pandaman]

I think Dismember is the safer SB option for mono-U.
You often don't have four life to spare, unfortunately. You run down to single digits almost every game, and regularly below five, I find. I win at one life at least once every event I play, and I have had to use SPact at that low life total. Had it been Dismember (or Snuff Out for that matter) I'd have been dead.

[Arksz]

So a bit curious, why do most of the lists from Japan run 2 Emrakuls? Don't you only need one to Wish->Call

[Patrunkenphat7]

You often don't have four life to spare, unfortunately. You run down to single digits almost every game, and regularly below five, I find. I win at one life at least once every event I play, and I have had to use SPact at that low life total. Had it been Dismember (or Snuff Out for that matter) I'd have been dead.

What version do you run? Often times Slaughter Pact will shut off your cast Emrakul win which means you need to Firemind's Foresight for Bstorm, Impulse, and Wish and hope to hit an Emrakul or Omniscience on your Impulse + Bstorm. Obviously you can cantrip chain off these too, but there is a chance to whiff on the 4 cards in your deck, and I think there is definitely an actual cost to running the Pact.

[pinkfrosting]

I've been wondering about this too. It seems pretty ballsy to run slaughter pact or pact of negation in a deck that isn't running Enter the Infinite. How consistently can you go off when Cunning Wish for Foresight is your only route to winning in one turn?

[Ruckusmh]

The two most interesting things about LDV are that it makes the deck more stable and lets you cut all actual win conditions from the deck. You can purely play for Wish->FF->Wish+LDV+BS and then LDV+BS into more cantrips into another Wish. This requires having 2 wishes left, but is pretty reasonable. If you didn't want to be as greedy, you could also play Split Decision to get with FF with the upside that a lot of the time it can target someone (you or your opponent's Dig through Time). I want to run 3-4 LDV, and probably Lotus Petal to really maximize LDV (Petals make it more likely to negate the cost of your cantrip by using Brainstorm to find combo piece + petal). As an interesting aside, Petal really opens up the Mentor splash.

I've been stewing on this since you posted it, LDV seems potentially outstanding here in general to me and Mentor out of the SB is kind of a fascinating idea.

Do you have a list that goes in this direction? I'd love somewhere to start working from.

[Tokugawa]

So a bit curious, why do most of the lists from Japan run 2 Emrakuls? Don't you only need one to Wish->Call

These list don't bring EtI; so only 1 Emrakul as victory condition is not enough.

There are some circumstance you totally cannot win with only 1 Emrakul in your deck.

For example, your opponent already have 6+ permanents in play. They take a swing, sacrifice 6 whatever, and kill you with remaining creatures. URx Pyromancer decks are popular in Japan, which is easy to exceed 6 permanents after landing a Pyromancer.

Also, DnT are not very popular there, 2 Emrakul slightly increase the success rate of directly SNT-Emrakul risk.

[Tokugawa]

I've been stewing on this since you posted it, LDV seems potentially outstanding here in general to me and Mentor out of the SB is kind of a fascinating idea.

Do you have a list that goes in this direction? I'd love somewhere to start working from.
This deck don't have daze,top or buring spells for abusing Prowess. Mentor would usually just be a more expensive Pyromancer.

And R splash would bring many useful tools in sideboard; while W don't.

Two 9-0 Omnitell decks in GP Kyoto day1 have creatures as backup beatdown plan, they chose Pyromancer and Rabblemaster.

[pandaman]

What version do you run? Often times Slaughter Pact will shut off your cast Emrakul win which means you need to Firemind's Foresight for Bstorm, Impulse, and Wish and hope to hit an Emrakul or Omniscience on your Impulse + Bstorm. Obviously you can cantrip chain off these too, but there is a chance to whiff on the 4 cards in your deck, and I think there is definitely an actual cost to running the Pact.
I'm on the Research//Development into Laboratory Maniac kill with the full compliment of Enter the Infinite in the deck. So after resolving Show and Tell I just Cunning Wish for Slaughter Pact, see off the pesky Teeg, and combo. Plus, I splash Black so I can pay the upkeep cost if I need to.

[Ruckusmh]

This deck don't have daze,top or buring spells for abusing Prowess. Mentor would usually just be a more expensive Pyromancer.

And R splash would bring many useful tools in sideboard; while W don't.

Two 9-0 Omnitell decks in GP Kyoto day1 have creatures as backup beatdown plan, they chose Pyromancer and Rabblemaster.

The tokens that Mentor leaves behind are substantially harder to deal with. I can definitely see the benefit of the red splash, but I think that Pyromancer or Rabble is more along for the ride in those lists as opposed to one of the major reasons to splash.

I don't think it's prudent to say that because one list was very successful in a single (albeit large) event, there should be no discussion of any alternatives.

[Quasim0ff]

I'm on the Research//Development into Laboratory Maniac kill with the full compliment of Enter the Infinite in the deck. So after resolving Show and Tell I just Cunning Wish for Slaughter Pact, see off the pesky Teeg, and combo. Plus, I splash Black so I can pay the upkeep cost if I need to.

How many Dig Through Time?

[Adan]

I've been wondering about this too. It seems pretty ballsy to run slaughter pact or pact of negation in a deck that isn't running Enter the Infinite. How consistently can you go off when Cunning Wish for Foresight is your only route to winning in one turn?

On some awkward cases you can CWish for Trickbind and counter the delayed trigger.

However, you are right, this is something to consider once I drop all Enter the Infinite.

I played this list to a mediocre 3-2 finish yesterday in a 19 ppl event:

2 City of Traitors
2 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
6 Island
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Omniscience
4 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
3 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Enter the Infinite
3 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
1 Misty Rainforest

SB: 1 Dig Through Time
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Swamp
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Noxious Revival
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage

R1: ANT 2-0

R2: Mirrormatch, Shouta Yasooka list, 0-2 (at one point he goes off with double backup and 1 cunning wish and 3 DTT and me not having Flisterstorm. g2 I get stuck on Island, Boseiju, topdecking the 2nd Boseiju)

R3: BUG Delver 2-1 (Thoughtseize is great in this MU once you board in the Swamp! However, in g1 I wish Flusterstorm was Spell Pierce because the plan was Snt-Emrakul and Flusterstorm could not counter that Liliana. Could have won it by ripping Omniscience, but a 5/6 Goyf was finishing me off pretty quickly)

R4: Miracles 2-1 (g2 I get locked out of the game with Counterbalance. Boseiju was sick in g3)

R5: Jund 1-2 (in g3 thoughtseize reveals me irrelevant cards so I know I can slam SnT --> Emrakul next turn. He topdecks Hymn to Tourach and hits both SnT and Emrakul. My graveyard disappears and I topdeck Dig Through Times. Humiliating.)

Overall this deck plays out very smooth if you play your cantrips correctly. However, I'm thinking about dropping Enter the Infinite entirely and play something along the lines of Shouta Yasooka, even though the red splash is quite weird. Something I realized is that I might have underestimated Gitaxian Probes. They might be better than playing Thoughtseizes, because they let you cycle through your deck at a faster pace, provide information for a safe kill and most importantly, you fill your grave faster to fire off DTTs. Maybe staying mono blue is a viable option, you can play Flusterstorms in the SB and Sapphire Charm as anti-creature hate.

I would probably give up on graveyard hate entirely, you can't win against a proper Reanimator player anyway.

[YamiJoey]

This deck don't have daze,top or buring spells for abusing Prowess. Mentor would usually just be a more expensive Pyromancer.

And R splash would bring many useful tools in sideboard; while W don't.

Two 9-0 Omnitell decks in GP Kyoto day1 have creatures as backup beatdown plan, they chose Pyromancer and Rabblemaster.

And if the Rabble or Pyro list missed out on T8, you'd be saying "No-one plays Rabblemaster in Legacy, what are you thinking?" or "Well it's been proven that Rabble is better than Pyro for us.".

There seems to be a really shitty mentality about nothing being good until it wins a Pro Tour or whatever. Can we please stop that?

[Ruckusmh]

And if the Rabble or Pyro list missed out on T8, you'd be saying "No-one plays Rabblemaster in Legacy, what are you thinking?" or "Well it's been proven that Rabble is better than Pyro for us.".

There seems to be a really shitty mentality about nothing being good until it wins a Pro Tour or whatever. Can we please stop that?

My interest in Mentor mainly stems from the fact that if you untap with him as long as you can cast 1-2 spells it is very very hard to lose. Young Pyro is not the same, as if they are able to remove it the tokens are pretty terrible. Rabble can't beat any other creatures on the board.

The real question is not whether Mentor would be good (the answer is almost certainly yes), it's whether or not you can justify losing the rest of what splashing red brings you for a much better sb bear.

[Barsoom]

I never played Slaughter Pact, i always played Rapid Hybridization/Pongify instead. Slaughter Pact trigger is even more problematic with the new version without Dream Halls/Enter the Infinite.

[YamiJoey]

W in the board isn't terrible, and I am always (ALWAYS) looking for excuses to play Top. Between us playing 4 Dig Through Time, already being Wasteable with Sol Lands, and already Stifleable with Fetches for Brainstorm, I don't see us losing much more often to our mana-base, anyway. The 'Keep Tundra + Cantips, die to Wasteland and no second mana' is possible, but the amount of games you will win from making an early Mentor and just beating people to death seems way higher.

EDIT: Also; +1 on the Rapid Hybridisation plan. I might go with that instead.

[Dziga Murnau]

So I finished 14th in 102-man Russian Legacy Championship, the only Omnitell in top16. Tournament report can be found here (http://topdeck.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=44781). Well, it's in Russian, but at least you can look my decklist (currently writing from my phone).
Quick results: 5-2, lost to Team America and Reanimator, won Loam, Merfolks, Omnitell (being my teammate with the same list), Elves and Painter.

Never needed RtA or Eladamri Call, with current sideboard resolved FF just win, though you have to chain some spells often. LDV became less appealing because I don't need it for Ant-kill. 6 discard spells instead of additional counters just rule.

[pandaman]

How many Dig Through Time?
Three.

[Dziga Murnau]

How do you look at postside tempo plan? Young Pyromancer is really good with Cabal Therapy, but it's too many splashes in a deck, that tends to be non-wastelandable (I am speaking from the point of view of OmniTell with heavy black splash for discard). The same goes of Rubblemaster and Monastery Mentor - it's third color. What options do we have?
Goal of tempo plan out of sideboard - dealing with heavy discard/counter decks and decks like Reanimator, where we just have no time to establish our own game plan, as all our resources are thrown at disrupting opponent's game plan.
(maybe I a, too desperate about Reanimator, as it killed me one step before top8 in Russian Legacy Championship)

[Spam]

So I finished 14th in 102-man Russian Legacy Championship, the only Omnitell in top16. Tournament report can be found here (http://topdeck.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=44781). Well, it's in Russian, but at least you can look my decklist (currently writing from my phone).
Quick results: 5-2, lost to Team America and Reanimator, won Loam, Merfolks, Omnitell (being my teammate with the same list), Elves and Painter.

Never needed RtA or Eladamri Call, with current sideboard resolved FF just win, though you have to chain some spells often. LDV became less appealing because I don't need it for Ant-kill. 6 discard spells instead of additional counters just rule.
I wanted to learn russian anyway.
How many times can you actually have omniscience plus Emrakul facing omniscience plus Emrakul! Man, the mirror with this deck is insane.

[Karhumies]

In terms of Reanimator MU, SB grave hate and Dream Halls are top cards. Iona on blue is among their top cards, good luck discarding a white card for d.halls.

[useL]

In terms of Reanimator MU, SB grave hate and Dream Halls are top cards. Iona on blue is among their top cards, good luck discarding a white card for d.halls.

Ashen Rider or Angel of Despair would do that =)

[Dziga Murnau]

I wanted to learn russian anyway.
How many times can you actually have omniscience plus Emrakul facing omniscience plus Emrakul! Man, the mirror with this deck is insane.
I made an idiot mistake right there: knowing my opponent will cast Emrakul his next turn from topdeck and attack, I pondered for some Cunning Wish or other action instead of just cantripping into 6th land. If I chose a land from Ponder and dropped it, I'd have 6 lands, Omni and Emri. In that case, facing an attacking Emrakul, I would sacrifice useless land, block him with my own Emrakul and continue the game with Omni. But I had to sacrifice everything including Omni, and block emrakul with Emrakul and had empty board...


In terms of Reanimator MU, SB grave hate and Dream Halls are top cards. Iona on blue is among their top cards, good luck discarding a white card for d.halls.

You won't live until you are able to cast Dream Halls against Reanimator.

[Spam]

I made an idiot mistake right there: knowing my opponent will cast Emrakul his next turn from topdeck and attack, I pondered for some Cunning Wish or other action instead of just cantripping into 6th land. If I chose a land from Ponder and dropped it, I'd have 6 lands, Omni and Emri. In that case, facing an attacking Emrakul, I would sacrifice useless land, block him with my own Emrakul and continue the game with Omni. But I had to sacrifice everything including Omni, and block emrakul with Emrakul and had empty board...



You won't live until you are able to cast Dream Halls against Reanimator.
Also casting a second omniscience would have done the trick.
The only solution against reanimator is Force, and if they go for it on turn one or two with Force and Daze you just loose. If they slow down then you have a chance.
Also, sometimes, noxious revival can ruin their plans.))

[pandaman]

I play 4 FoW, 4 Flusterstorm plus 3 Cunning Wish for Surgical Extraction preboard, and 4 Thoughtseize post board. That is enough, from my testing results, to put me into positive matchup territory with Reanimator.

[Dziga Murnau]

Also casting a second omniscience would have done the trick.
The only solution against reanimator is Force, and if they go for it on turn one or two with Force and Daze you just loose. If they slow down then you have a chance.
Also, sometimes, noxious revival can ruin their plans.))
I think, we need something uncounterable to be stronger. 4 Leyline of the Void (we really have room for it, especially in my list with no RtA and EC) or some number of Faerie Macabre. Leyline just stops them until they found some bounce (Show and Tell plan don't work for them, as we land Omniscience and win), and before it we can safely discard their business. Macabre is absolutely unstoppable, but shoots only once.

[elFinFas]

Hy people.
What is the top list of the omnitell deck right now?!

Thanks

[Lejay]

This is a forum, not yahoo question nor a fast-food. Read the last few pages please sir.

[Spam]

I think, we need something uncounterable to be stronger. 4 Leyline of the Void (we really have room for it, especially in my list with no RtA and EC) or some number of Faerie Macabre. Leyline just stops them until they found some bounce (Show and Tell plan don't work for them, as we land Omniscience and win), and before it we can safely discard their business. Macabre is absolutely unstoppable, but shoots only once.
To me it really depends on how prominent is reanimator or dredge in your meta. Leyline is usually game for them, but I never felt the need simply because most of the time counters do the work and I do fear decks that are more popular in my meta (miracles, miracles everywhere!!)

[emidln]

Leyline of the Void

It seems like missing the point if you side Leyline of the Void and then cast Show and Tell for them.

[Curtis Dittmar]

It seems like missing the point if you side Leyline of the Void and then cast Show and Tell for them.

Opening with Leyline and preparing to win with triggers on the stack shouldn't be a problem.

Weekly events aside,I feel like Reainimater isn't even worth the board space. All the controll decks put Reainimater in check.

[Dziga Murnau]

It seems like missing the point if you side Leyline of the Void and then cast Show and Tell for them.
With LotV my game plan will be: drop LotV before first turn -> discard big guys -> safely go off with Boseiju. In this case Reanimator guy would have to search for bounce and fight with my discard and Digs for more discard at the same time, while all his key cards (4 Entomb, 8 reanimating spells, all fatties) are blanks and Careful studies work wrong.
But that's work only in my discard heavy build.

It's a pity, Bribery is not an instant in this case.

[Karhumies]

You won't live until you are able to cast Dream Halls against Reanimator.

That's why you have the grave hate: to live long enough.

1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Noxious Revival
(1x extra slot if the metagame calls for it)

Mulligan into grave hate / FoW, prevent their first attempt to go off, then go off before they are trying the second time. It's not a great MU, but at least in my experience, that has been a solid game plan.

[Arksz]

I have been playing lands for a bit and wanted a combo deck to complement my Grindy main squeeze.
So recently picked up the deck and am really loving it so far.

I was trying to run a mainboard intuition but it's just so clunky and gets countered by soft permission a lot. It just seems so good though as a pseudo demonic tutor. Maybe it can take a wishboard slot?

My question is about the sneak and show matchup. It seems kind of bad. Played it the other night. It pretty much devolves into a huge counter war over his sneak attack and If it resolves I lose. I did have some slow hands assembling my own combo but it's hard to push it through with all his counter Magic, especially after board.

[bodea1981]

So I was sneak and show for quite a while and love the deck.... I moved to Omnitell last week and went 3-0-1 in a tournament this past Saturday....I must say i am loving the deck.... casting dig through time for free is awesome..... I have an IQ coming up this Saturday and looking for some opinions and options for my side board (im not super happy with some of the card selctions but i know the sideboard is tight as it is)... also what do you side out... i was shaving cantrips... and i sideboarded really light.... mind you i have not read through this entire primer yet.

My meta has RUG Delver, BUG Delver, Miracles, Lands, Dredge, Maverick, infect, Death and Taxes, Omintell, UW Merfolk (standtill version), Shardless Bug, USA stoneblade, and Esper Stoneblade, and sometimes Reanimator (its played like once every other month).

Thanks in advance guys.

Without further ado here is my deck list... its pretty stock from what i gather.

Main Deck
4x Show and Tell
4x Omniscience
4x Cunning Wish
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Preordain
4x Ponder
3x Dig Through Time
2x Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
2x Spell Pierce
1x Flusterstorm
1x Impulse
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
1x Volcanic Island
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
5x Islands

SB- 2x Defense Grid
SB- 1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB- 1x Eladamri's Call
SB- 1x Wipe Away
SB- 1x Dig Through Time
SB- 1X Release the Ants
SB- 1x Flusterstorm
SB- 1x Graffdigger's Cage
SB- 1x Trickbind
SB- 1X Pact of Negation
SB- 1x Slaughter Pact
SB- 1x Firemind's Foresight
SB- 1x Pyroblast
SB- 1x Surgical Extraction

I would like to fit an echoing truth in for sure and a misdirection

My Matches were the following:
Omintell- won 2-1 (plus 2x defense grids, 1 x Jace, the mindsculptor, 1x pyroblast, minus 3x cantrips 1x wish)
Infect- won 2-1 (plus 1x pyroblast, minus 1x wish)
UW merfolk- won 2-1 (plus 1x pyroblast, 1x Jace, the Mindsculptor, minus 2x cantrips)
Miracles- 1-1 draw

[cris_rj]

I saw the u/r omni decklist at GpKioto, with 2 young pyromancer, 2 lightening bolt and 1 electrickery in side

My questions are, when you side in, side out those cards ? I side in to block creature decks ? like rug, DnT and marcerick
Why using only 2 sol lands ? In my test it slows the deck.

[Baum]

You want to have Pyromancer against Miracles, since they board out all their removal. Especially if you are not running Boseiju to get past their permission.
The creatures are also great in the mirror. It can be pretty dangerous to cast Show and Tell, so another angle of attack makes sense.

[KobeBryan]

So I was sneak and show for quite a while and love the deck.... I moved to Omnitell last week and went 3-0-1 in a tournament this past Saturday....I must say i am loving the deck.... casting dig through time for free is awesome..... I have an IQ coming up this Saturday and looking for some opinions and options for my side board (im not super happy with some of the card selctions but i know the sideboard is tight as it is)... also what do you side out... i was shaving cantrips... and i sideboarded really light.... mind you i have not read through this entire primer yet.

My meta has RUG Delver, BUG Delver, Miracles, Lands, Dredge, Maverick, infect, Death and Taxes, Omintell, UW Merfolk (standtill version), Shardless Bug, USA stoneblade, and Esper Stoneblade, and sometimes Reanimator (its played like once every other month).

Thanks in advance guys.

Without further ado here is my deck list... its pretty stock from what i gather.

Main Deck
4x Show and Tell
4x Omniscience
4x Cunning Wish
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Preordain
4x Ponder
3x Dig Through Time
2x Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
2x Spell Pierce
1x Flusterstorm
1x Impulse
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
1x Volcanic Island
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
5x Islands

SB- 2x Defense Grid
SB- 1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB- 1x Eladamri's Call
SB- 1x Wipe Away
SB- 1x Dig Through Time
SB- 1X Release the Ants
SB- 1x Flusterstorm
SB- 1x Graffdigger's Cage
SB- 1x Trickbind
SB- 1X Pact of Negation
SB- 1x Slaughter Pact
SB- 1x Firemind's Foresight
SB- 1x Pyroblast
SB- 1x Surgical Extraction

I would like to fit an echoing truth in for sure and a misdirection

My Matches were the following:
Omintell- won 2-1 (plus 2x defense grids, 1 x Jace, the mindsculptor, 1x pyroblast, minus 3x cantrips 1x wish)
Infect- won 2-1 (plus 1x pyroblast, minus 1x wish)
UW merfolk- won 2-1 (plus 1x pyroblast, 1x Jace, the Mindsculptor, minus 2x cantrips)
Miracles- 1-1 draw

electrickery is good, but the 1 damage won't be enough to kill a board of hate bears.

[bodea1981]

electrickery is good, but the 1 damage won't be enough to kill a board of hate bears.

Thanks... I was think after seeing shouta's list but DnT is like 2 people in my meta... I dunno if it warrants a slot since they rarely play.... I may put in for the IQ though... Seems reasonable for a 60 person tourney.

[Karhumies]

My question is about the sneak and show matchup. It seems kind of bad. Played it the other night. It pretty much devolves into a huge counter war over his sneak attack and If it resolves I lose. I did have some slow hands assembling my own combo but it's hard to push it through with all his counter Magic, especially after board.

If you can find the SB space for 1-2 blasts, it can help the MU. Another, clunkier option for counter wars in general is finding out an instant you can Boseiju through.

[YamiJoey]

Did you just advicate for the use of Mana Leak? Why is everyone on the Mana Leak plan all of a sudden?

[Spam]

Oh, no! Are we trying to play them again in legacy!? Because I've all ready burned my set a long time ago!

[bodea1981]

Thanks Lejay for putting in all the effort for this thread.

On the lands.... initial primer say 6 to 7 fetches.... i see alot of lists w 8 to 10 fetches... any reason for so many fetches?

Still I want to get comfortable with sideboard.

Quick Questions
1. What is the sapphire charm for? It looks like phase out mode would be most used but doesn't creature comeback at EOT against DnT.
2. Why rushing rivers over say echoing truth?
3. Noxious revival vs surgical extraction?
4. Trickbind is used in what capacity? Trigger for pacts or CB im guessing
5. What do you use against BUG delver?

[pandaman]

Thanks Lejay for putting in all the effort for this thread.

On the lands.... initial primer say 6 to 7 fetches.... i see alot of lists w 8 to 10 fetches... any reason for so many fetches?

Still I want to get comfortable with sideboard.

Quick Questions
1. What is the sapphire charm for? It looks like phase out mode would be most used but doesn't creature comeback at EOT against DnT.
2. Why rushing rivers over say echoing truth?
3. Noxious revival vs surgical extraction?
4. Trickbind is used in what capacity? Trigger for pacts or CB im guessing
5. What do you use against BUG delver?

Fetches: people are splashing a second colour and need them to reliably find dual lands. They also enable faster Dig Through Time.

Sapphire Charm: I don't use it, so I'll defer to others.

Rushing River: you can bounce two different permanents if necessary ( Canonist and Thalia, for example).

Surgical Extraction: to give you game against Dredge, Reanimator, and faster combo.

Noxious Revival: to recover your combo pieces from the graveyard (often in response to Surgical Extraction!).

Trickbind: Oblivion Ring or Reclamation Sage triggers when they're put in off Show and Tell. And also MANY other things that randomly come up, like comboing with an active Vial on two counters against Death & Taxes.

BUG Delver: some use Defence Grid. I use Flusterstorm on their discard, Dig Through Time to recover from it, and sol lands to make Force of Will their only relevant counterspell. Others will have different views.

[bodea1981]

Fetches: people are splashing a second colour and need them to reliably find dual lands. They also enable faster Dig Through Time.

Sapphire Charm: I don't use it, so I'll defer to others.

Rushing River: you can bounce two different permanents if necessary ( Canonist and Thalia, for example).

Surgical Extraction: to give you game against Dredge, Reanimator, and faster combo.

Noxious Revival: to recover your combo pieces from the graveyard (often in response to Surgical Extraction!).

Trickbind: Oblivion Ring or Reclamation Sage triggers when they're put in off Show and Tell. And also MANY other things that randomly come up, like comboing with an active Vial on two counters against Death & Taxes.

BUG Delver: some use Defence Grid. I use Flusterstorm on their discard, Dig Through Time to recover from it, and sol lands to make Force of Will their only relevant counterspell. Others will have different views.

Thanks Pandaman.... what list do you use at the minute? are you splashing a second colour or are you straight mono blue.

I appreciate the input.

The deck is alot of fun.... I will post my results after the tourney on Saturday... but I usually do poor in bigger tournaments... its almost always 0-2 drop... but im gonna stick it out this weekend even if i do poorly just to get reps with the deck... then off to VEGAS for modern masters.... gonna play in all the legacy side events with the deck!

[pandaman]

I am not playing the current list. I still play a playset of Enter the Infinite and use the Research//Development into Laboratory Maniac kill. It's similar to lists emidln has posted throughout the thread. It's not the most popular version, which you will find plays one or no EtI and Emrakul /RtI as the kill.

[YamiJoey]

Sapphire Charm has a weird "Exile target Batterskull" mode.

If the Germ Phases out, the Batterskull Phases out with it. The Batterskull will Phase back in whenever the Germ does. When the Germ Phases out, it ceases to exist, and never Phases back in.

Sapphire Charm - Instant
U: Exile target Batterskull.

[Mockingbird]

Sapphire Charm has a weird "Exile target Batterskull" mode.

If the Germ Phases out, the Batterskull Phases out with it. The Batterskull will Phase back in whenever the Germ does. When the Germ Phases out, it ceases to exist, and never Phases back in.

Sapphire Charm - Instant
U: Exile target Batterskull.Why would an equipment card phase out with the creature it's attached to?

[Dziga Murnau]

Why would an equipment card phase out with the creature it's attached to?

It's Magic, man. Rules of phasing just say so.

[kuroko16]

this week i have a big tournament in italy. ( last time 6-2 with this deck 1 month ago)

not sure for 2-3 slot.


There are many many miracles in Italy so I was thinking of using this list.


http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=83401



Not sure about NO DEFENSE Grid in side or use 1 Boseiju in Main.



maybe replace 1 pact with Swan Song or spell pierce?


any idea?

[Burnplayer]

Hi my name is Manuel Gómez and I've create the established list of omnitell, then the people have copied me:

Here the first decklist:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16373&iddeck=122420


Here an article (in spanish)

Part 1:

http://www.ingeniobcn.com/omni-tell-en-legacy

Part 2:

http://www.ingeniobcn.com/omni-tell-en-legacy-part-2

[Julian23]

Hi my name is Manuel Gómez and I've create the established list of omnitell, then the people have copied me:

Look at that guy, lol. Bold claim, especially when linking to decklists and articles from between February and April 2015.

The established and good lists of OmniTell lists have looked like that ever since fall 2014 when Dig Through Time entered the format.

[Lemnear]

Look at that guy, lol. Bold claim, especially when linking to decklists and articles from between February and April 2015.

The established and good lists of OmniTell lists have looked like that ever since fall 2014 when Dig Through Time entered the format.

The day Dig Through Time was spoilered I wrote in this very forum that it will replace Enter the Infinite and will revive OmniTell. Go look it up. Claiming to be the originator of that idea half a year later is pathetic especially as we've seen the indeed successful implementation of DTT already proven in tournaments last year

[nevilshute]

Nerdraging over who gets credit as the originator of a 2014 show and tell deck. GG :laugh:

[Burnplayer]

In this type of decks, the small differences are very important. I designed this list and on the following week of be publishing in TC decks, 3 boys of Providence's SCG copied me the 75 cards. My list is the most perfect and balanced, for this reason the people copy me.

[Julian23]

In this type of decks, the small differences are very important. I designed this list and on the following week of be publishing in TC decks, 3 boys of Providence's SCG copied me the 75 cards. My list is the most perfect and balanced, for this reason the people copy me.

Whatever works for you.

[Lans89]

Ok, close this thread, we found 'the list' :cool:!

[bodea1981]

is this like the ultimate troll??

Omnitell List w DTT was up around the banning of TC. The great thing about the list is that they have options for your wish board and you can make tweeks you like main deck.

whatever.

[Spam]

Wait, so you're saying that this list is just a copy? From the past!?
Damn thieves!
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15272&iddeck=113410

[Dziga Murnau]

In this type of decks, the small differences are very important. I designed this list and on the following week of be publishing in TC decks, 3 boys of Providence's SCG copied me the 75 cards. My list is the most perfect and balanced, for this reason the people copy me.

Your list has some unneeded cards. For example, Eladamri's Call is unnecessary, even though you've got only one Emrakul and no Intuition/LDV mainboard. After Omni you just make this chain:
Wish -> FF (get Brainstorm, Impulse, Wish) -> Wish -> Intuition (get Emrakul, Wish, Wish) -> Wish -> Noxious Revival (put Emrakul on top) -> Brainstorm -> Emrakul. Pretty easy.

Also, you intentionally decided to not fight with fast grave-based decks like Reaimator and Dredge? Just Nox and Surgick (as we cal them in Russia) seems too little hate for them.

[bodea1981]

So for those who run 3 DTT v 4 DTT and 3 Wish v 4 Wish?

Is it a preference... does the deck become too clunky w 4 ofs?

I apologize to everyone on this thread for all the questions... just trying to get comfortable with my own build that looks like everyone's elses build:cool:

[KobeBryan]

So for those who run 3 DTT v 4 DTT and 3 Wish v 4 Wish?

Is it a preference... does the deck become too clunky w 4 ofs?

I apologize to everyone on this thread for all the questions... just trying to get comfortable with my own build that looks like everyone's elses build:cool:

you really need to grind some games.

I found 4 dtt was too much, but i have one in the side. because of that, i use 4 wishes.

When Omni is out, i do not have a dtt, i can wish for it.

[bodea1981]

you really need to grind some games.

I found 4 dtt was too much, but i have one in the side. because of that, i use 4 wishes.

When Omni is out, i do not have a dtt, i can wish for it.

I agree that I have to grind the games... i am just data collecting... trust me i appreciate all the input.

Thanks Kobebryan.

[KobeBryan]

Your list has some unneeded cards. For example, Eladamri's Call is unnecessary, even though you've got only one Emrakul and no Intuition/LDV mainboard. After Omni you just make this chain:
Wish -> FF (get Brainstorm, Impulse, Wish) -> Wish -> Intuition (get Emrakul, Wish, Wish) -> Wish -> Noxious Revival (put Emrakul on top) -> Brainstorm -> Emrakul. Pretty easy.

Also, you intentionally decided to not fight with fast grave-based decks like Reaimator and Dredge? Just Nox and Surgick (as we cal them in Russia) seems too little hate for them.

I found that unless you pack 4 GY removal, its not really worth dedicating too many slots against these two decks. I think these two decks have a 80% win rate against us.

[kkkant]

Im playing 2 grafdiggers cages in the sb also. Helps vs reanimator, dredge, ant and elves, all of them pretty tough matchups.

[Julian23]

Your list has some unneeded cards. For example, Eladamri's Call is unnecessary, even though you've got only one Emrakul and no Intuition/LDV mainboard. After Omni you just make this chain:
Wish -> FF (get Brainstorm, Impulse, Wish) -> Wish -> Intuition (get Emrakul, Wish, Wish) -> Wish -> Noxious Revival (put Emrakul on top) -> Brainstorm -> Emrakul. Pretty easy.

Also, you intentionally decided to not fight with fast grave-based decks like Reaimator and Dredge? Just Nox and Surgick (as we cal them in Russia) seems too little hate for them.

You just said he doesn't have Intuition, so how is he supposed to go that route without it? You could say -1 Eladamri's Call +1 Intuition, but that's different.

One should also note that that line only works if you have not cast any other Wish yet.

[Dziga Murnau]

You just said he doesn't have Intuition, so how is he supposed to go that route without it? You could say -1 Eladamri's Call +1 Intuition, but that's different.

One should also note that that line only works if you have not cast any other Wish yet.

He's got an Intuition in sideboard, that's why I proposed such a wish-demanding chain) in my build, for example, only two wishes required, and even one is enough (just get FF, find Emri with LDV and draw it with Brainstorm). With three wishes avaluable post-Omni you cast FF - Ituition for Emri and 2 Wishes, find second Emri with LDV, Nox first one on top, draw both with Brainstorm and cast both for two extra turns.

Of course, EtI into two Emri is shorter, but it is completely dead precombo. I always apologies nowadays for killing with such a long spell chain, but it saves two slots in such a small sideboard as we have.

[Star|Scream]

He's got an Intuition in sideboard, that's why I proposed such a wish-demanding chain) in my build, for example, only two wishes required, and even one is enough (just get FF, find Emri with LDV and draw it with Brainstorm). With three wishes avaluable post-Omni you cast FF - Ituition for Emri and 2 Wishes, find second Emri with LDV, Nox first one on top, draw both with Brainstorm and cast both for two extra turns.

Of course, EtI into two Emri is shorter, but it is completely dead precombo. I always apologies nowadays for killing with such a long spell chain, but it saves two slots in such a small sideboard as we have.

What is your build

[Dziga Murnau]

What is your build

I changed it a bit since Russian Legacy Championship (-2 Preordain, +Impulse and Probe main, +4 Leyline of the Void side)

// TOPDeck.ru: FamilyTell

// Win
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience

// Tutors
4 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

// Answers
4 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

// Cantrips
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Dig Through Time
1 Impulse

// Manabase
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
5 Island
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Dig Through Time
SB: 1 Noxious Revival
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Snuff Out
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Flusterstorm

Impulse made his way into main because of "basic swamp issue" (which sometimes makes our cantrips virtually cost 2, if we run out of discard). Maybe with 4 Probes discard should be played as 4 Therapies + 2 Thoughtseize it's up to testing. And I'm okay with 4 LotV right now, though I'd like to find room for Surgical Extraction.

[dionykos]

hi my name is manuel gómez and i've create the established list of omnitell, then the people have copied me:

ha,
ha,
ha.

[bodea1981]

I changed it a bit since Russian Legacy Championship (-2 Preordain, +Impulse and Probe main, +4 Leyline of the Void side)

// TOPDeck.ru: FamilyTell

// Win
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience

// Tutors
4 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dul's Vault

// Answers
4 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize

// Cantrips
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Dig Through Time
1 Impulse

// Manabase
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
5 Island
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
2 City of Traitors
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Dig Through Time
SB: 1 Noxious Revival
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Snuff Out
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Flusterstorm

Impulse made his way into main because of "basic swamp issue" (which sometimes makes our cantrips virtually cost 2, if we run out of discard). Maybe with 4 Probes discard should be played as 4 Therapies + 2 Thoughtseize it's up to testing. And I'm okay with 4 LotV right now, though I'd like to find room for Surgical Extraction.

thats a cool list... How is the discard working for you? Is it that good or is that a meta call where you are... I assume because you have alot of TEPS or ANT..... I feel like preordain is one of the best cards in the deck though....and should be a 4 of... I was jamming a bunch of games last night and thought preordain consistently overperformed.

you could cut a leyline for an extraction or the boseiju in the board. but sideboards are very hard to cover everything with the deck.

This is only what found in my limited testing... we will see how it works out on Saturday when i play in SCG IQ.

[Lemnear]

I'm sure TEPS was an old Extended deck with Mind's Desire and Sins of the Past ;)

[bodea1981]

I'm sure TEPS was an old Extended deck with Mind's Desire and Sins of the Past ;)

LOL... I guess that we call The EPic Storm at my local... but fair point.

[Lemnear]

LOL... I guess that we call The EPic Storm at my local... but fair point.

TPS = The Perfect Storm - Vintage deck - blue-centric Storm.dec with Force of Will (not to confuse with Long.dec)
TES = The Epic Storm - Legacy deck - red-centric and uses Wishes
TEPS = The Extended Perfect Storm - Extended Deck - Mind's Desire and Sins of the Past as engine fed by Lotus Bloom

easy to confuse ;D

[Dutch253]

Is this deck any cheaper than other decks in the format that are running duals? The land base just seems to be the biggest investment in any Legacy deck and I'm hoping to find something decent without having to sell my kidneys. ;)

[bodea1981]

TPS = The Perfect Storm - Vintage deck - blue-centric Storm.dec with Force of Will (not to confuse with Long.dec)
TES = The Epic Storm - Legacy deck - red-centric and uses Wishes
TEPS = The Extended Perfect Storm - Extended Deck - Mind's Desire and Sins of the Past as engine fed by Lotus Bloom

easy to confuse ;D

Well now i can correct everyone. Thanks you sir:laugh:

[Bobmans]

Is this deck any cheaper than other decks in the format that are running duals? The land base just seems to be the biggest investment in any Legacy deck and I'm hoping to find something decent without having to sell my kidneys. ;)

Any deck running either blue duals, Tarmogoyfs or exotic cards like Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale, Candelabra of Tawnos or whatever will be more expensive then this deck. And yes, this deck is in DtB section so i wouldn't worry about this being decend. If you check out lists on mtgdecks or most other netdeck sites there are average prizes covered.

[Karhumies]

Any deck running either blue duals, Tarmogoyfs or exotic cards like Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale, Candelabra of Tawnos or whatever will be more expensive then this deck. And yes, this deck is in DtB section so i wouldn't worry about this being decend. If you check out lists on mtgdecks or most other netdeck sites there are average prizes covered.

Buy-in / upgrade strategy:
Get 4x Show and Tell + 1x Emrakul + 3-4x Cunning Wish now. At that point, the deck is already budget playable and you can upgrade as you go. Omniscience, Brainstorm, etc. cost next to nothing, basically. City of Traitors can be subbed with Ancient Tomb / Crystal Vein when buying in.

[Dutch253]

Buy-in / upgrade strategy:
Get 4x Show and Tell + 1x Emrakul + 3-4x Cunning Wish now. At that point, the deck is already budget playable and you can upgrade as you go. Omniscience, Brainstorm, etc. cost next to nothing, basically. City of Traitors can be subbed with Ancient Tomb / Crystal Vein when buying in.

Very cool. I'll definitely be looking into this. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Karhumies]

Very cool. I'll definitely be looking into this. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just checked Omniscience single prices and realized it has gone way up recently as this deck has become more popular. :-/

Anyhow, a relatively simple & straightforward mid-budget build would be something along these lines:
4x Show and Tell
4x Omniscience
4x Cunning Wish
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Preordain
4x Ponder
3x Dig Through Time
2x Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
3x Spell Pierce
1x Impulse
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ancient Tomb
1x Crystal Vein
8x Island

Sideboard:
1x Firemind's Foresight
1x Release the Ants
1x Noxious Revival
10x Wishboard cards based on what you have
2x Hate slots based on what your local meta has


For lower budget tips which will downgrade the performance significantly
- Enter the Infinite is way cheaper than Emrakul
- Dream Halls is way cheaper than Show and Tell
- Disrupting Shoal / Pact of Negation is way cheaper than FoW

[Dutch253]

Just checked Omniscience single prices and realized it has gone way up recently as this deck has become more popular. :-/

Abyhow, a mid-budget build would be something along these lines:
4x Show and Tell
4x Omniscience
4x Cunning Wish
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Preordain
4x Ponder
3x Dig Through Time
2x Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
3x Spell Pierce
1x Impulse
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ancient Tomb
1x Crystal Vein
8x Island

Sideboard:
1x Firemind's Foresight
1x Release the Ants
1x Noxious Revival
10x Wishboard cards based on what you have
2x Hate slots based on what your local meta has

Funny how that happens! Thanks a lot for the list, much appreciated!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bobmans]

Funny how that happens! Thanks a lot for the list, much appreciated!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Crystal Veins is fine to use. Often i would hold back a tomb/city for the turn i want to S&T into Omni to prevent getting it wasted. 1 maindeck Boseiju is fine to. I wouldnt have problems with 6-8 u fetch and 6-8 islands along with 3-4 veins and 1 boseiju making a total of 19 lands.

2 Emrakul is on the safe side but 1 is fine to. 2 Emrakul gives you the ability to loop it (thru enter the inf.) and win without having to pass the turn to your opponent.
I am not a fan but LabMan is a wincon to. And it is cheap.

[Dziga Murnau]

thats a cool list... How is the discard working for you? Is it that good or is that a meta call where you are... I assume because you have alot of TEPS or ANT..... I feel like preordain is one of the best cards in the deck though....and should be a 4 of... I was jamming a bunch of games last night and thought preordain consistently overperformed.

you could cut a leyline for an extraction or the boseiju in the board. but sideboards are very hard to cover everything with the deck.

This is only what found in my limited testing... we will see how it works out on Saturday when i play in SCG IQ.

I prefer proactive protection (in Russian it's called "prikryshka"), than reactive, if it costs any mana. That helps to combo as soon as possible being sure that you have won counter war before even starting it. First turn Thoughtseize into second turn Cabal Therapy often just clears path for us. Besides, discard has such a huge benefit for our deck as discarding their nasty permanents planned to land with our Show and Tell (sorry, Ashen Rider, hit a graveyard, please). Also it fuels DtT faster - I was surprised, how fast can I cast it for two, if I do not stick counters in hand, but throw discard in opponent's face (easily on turn three, thus winning the attrition war). And, of course, 6 discards works good against THEIR discard and looks like pre-sideboarded deck against other combo.

Preordain is really good, but nowadays Probes got their place. Information and playing 56 cards is better for me, as I use direct tutors for combo pieces (and discard give me luxury to have time to cast them - and that statement is not a contradiction with my aim to combo as soon as possible).

All in all, that's just my approach to Omnitell combo - I see it more controllish and less YOLO, than many other successful legacy combos, so I prefer to play more protection (10 cards mainboard, no less) but need to spend effectively every mana I have (that's 6 mana before combo on turn 4) and every card working right now for my victory (so all my love to Therapies, best discard in Magic).

[Dziga Murnau]

I've got question to those, how prefer LabMan kill nowadays - why? What matchups does improve EtI-Wish-Research-LabMan-win chain?
Asking, as I fell in love with the deck because of Enter the Infinite and LabMan and would like to return to them even though Flying Spaghetti Monster seems stronger and more resilient to me.

[pandaman]

I've got question to those, how prefer LabMan kill nowadays - why? What matchups does improve EtI-Wish-Research-LabMan-win chain?
Asking, as I fell in love with the deck because of Enter the Infinite and LabMan and would like to return to them even though Flying Spaghetti Monster seems stronger and more resilient to me.
I still play it, because my friend brought me a signed altered foil Laboratory Maniac back from a GP he attended in Germany and it would be a shame not to use it! And I also like that when I go to win the game there's really nothing that can stop me.

[Varal]

I still play it, because my friend brought me a signed altered foil Laboratory Maniac back from a GP he attended in Germany and it would be a shame not to use it! And I also like that when I go to win the game there's really nothing that can stop me.

It's opening you to different hate like Notion Thief and company.

[pandaman]

It's opening you to different hate like Notion Thief and company.
How is Notion Thief going to stop LabMan? Or are you talking about Thief on EtI?

[Varal]

How is Notion Thief going to stop LabMan? Or are you talking about Thief on EtI?

Yes, it blocks Enter the Infinite. Technically, it also blocks Laboratory Maniac for one turn but, once you've drawn your whole deck, you can probably take care of the Notion Thief.

[pandaman]

If they have a Thief and can protect it, all power to them. But I've never had anyone who could do it.

And Brainstorm with Thief on the stack takes care of if they're trying to stop LabMan.

[Dziga Murnau]

I still play it, because my friend brought me a signed altered foil Laboratory Maniac back from a GP he attended in Germany and it would be a shame not to use it! And I also like that when I go to win the game there's really nothing that can stop me.

So, in your case it's a poetry issue) what I dislike in EtI way in the first place is that it's always a three card combo meanwhile Emri let us play simply SnT-FSM and win. It is not that seldom to pitch Omni to FoW to push SnT through and drop Emrakul.
EtI is better with Dream Halls but that's FOUR card combo.

[pandaman]

I have a thing for Maniac. For fun, I jam it into decks as a win-con whenever I can. Rehab possibly required.

Sorry, I'm having a mental blank, FSM is what?

[Dziga Murnau]

I have a thing for Maniac. For fun, I jam it into decks as a win-con whenever I can. Rehab possibly required.

Sorry, I'm having a mental blank, FSM is what?

Flying Spaghetti Monster, nickname for Emrakul)

[pandaman]

The thing I don't like is that SnT into FSM (all hail His noodly appendage) is that you don't just win. You need to deal with all sorts of garbage between that turn and your next turn: Karakas, ORing, Terminus, Sower of Temptation, DSphere, etc.. I'd prefer to set up a situation to resolve EtI and be guaranteed to win. However, I don't want to put my opinion forward as being better, because the Emrakul version sans the EtI is the version putting up results. I play mine 'cause I like the LabMan win :)

[Bobmans]

Yes, it blocks Enter the Infinite. Technically, it also blocks Laboratory Maniac for one turn but, once you've drawn your whole deck, you can probably take care of the Notion Thief.

Forcing your opponent to draw his entire deck thru EtI -> Notion Thief is something that wins the game for you... Offcourse you have tons of cantrips so probably your library is smaller, but... Emrakul hitting the yard fixes that. Notion Thief looks better on paper then it really is. Basicly it can make EtI an instant win.

[sawatarix]

Discard is a huge thing in this Deck.So is Lim-Dul's Vault.
I jammed a list fitting my playstyle and went 5:1:0 yesterday in Tokyo. Sometimes I need to jam Show and Tell instead of Tendrils of Agony ;)

[Arksz]

Discard is a huge thing in this Deck.So is Lim-Dul's Vault.
I jammed a list fitting my playstyle and went 5:1:0 yesterday in Tokyo. Sometimes I need to jam Show and Tell instead of Tendrils of Agony ;)

Mind posting your list? I see a few with discard, I'm interested in trying it out!

[YamiJoey]

Forcing your opponent to draw his entire deck thru EtI -> Notion Thief is something that wins the game for you... Offcourse you have tons of cantrips so probably your library is smaller, but... Emrakul hitting the yard fixes that. Notion Thief looks better on paper then it really is. Basicly it can make EtI an instant win.

It's really unlikely you'll EtI for a win if they have Notion Thief for about 6,000,000 reasons.

[Bobmans]

It's really unlikely you'll EtI for a win if they have Notion Thief for about 6,000,000 reasons.

Theoriecrafting. I actually pulled it of during a tournament. I played Intuition searching 1x Emrakul and 2x EtI. He choose EtI, Emrakul hit the yard and i won.

[YamiJoey]

Theoriecrafting. I actually pulled it of during a tournament. I played Intuition searching 1x Emrakul and 2x EtI. He choose EtI, Emrakul hit the yard and i won.

So your hand was S/T, Omni, Intuition? (Or Wish for FF or whatever.) Because this is about the only way to do it. You also need to have not cast more than one Dig Through Time, or else you probably still just have less total cards than them.

[kuroko16]

some one is testing the "Red" splash?

opinion?

[Adan]

some one is testing the "Red" splash?

opinion?

The red splash is good, a lot of people seem to like it. Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast is very good when you are facing a meta with a lit of controlish decks and disposes Meddling Mages. A lot of people also argue that Young Pyromancer is a good SB option against Miracles and the mirror.

On the other hand, the black splash gives you edge against decks splashing Meddling Mages and Death & Taxes.
Massacre is great. And Toxic Deluge is also pretty nice to have.

I personally like the black splash better, I also like how Lim-Dul's Vault enables instant-speed RtA-kills against CiP-Triggers and is basically Vampiric Tutor. Miracles basically has to counter it out of fear for Boseiju (which I didn't play, but certainly will in the future).

Black doesn't have a creature like Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor, but I had the idea of jamming Gurmag Angler and/or Tasigur into the SB against Miracles. They can't be hit by Counterbalance and Angler kills in 4 swings while Tasigur is one turn slower but can potentially dig up nice stuff and/or fuels DTT.

[bodea1981]

Hello All just to give a tournament update on how i did this past weekend. I audibled to mono blue omnishow instead of the usual splash of red because of all the wastelands decks that were there. My record was 2-2-1 i dropped in the 6th since i couldnt top 8 and wanted to go to the mayweather pacquio fight... in hindsight i should have just played magic.
the list i registered was the following:
MD:
4x show and tell
4x omniscience
4x ponder
4x gitaxian probe
4x brainstorm
4x force of will
4x preordain
4x cunning wish
3x dig through time
2x spell pierce
2x emrakul, the aeons torn
2x spell pierce
1x flusterstorm
1x impulse
7x island
4x polluted delta
4x scalding tarn
2x city of traitors
1x ancient tomb
1x boseiju, who shelters all
SB:
2x defense grid
1x boseiju, who shelters all
1x dig through time
1x eladamri's call
1x firemind's foresight
1x flusterstorm
1x grafdigger's cage
1x noxious revival
1x pact of negation
1x release the ants
1x rushing river
1x surgical extraction
1x trickbind
1x wipe away

Round 1- Miracles (kyoto list) 1-1 Draw
Game one Mull to 6 kept a decent opener w on piece combo a cantrips... could find my other pieces of combo.. grinded me out w clique
Game two Mull to 6 comboed turn 3... put venser into play... i put trigger on the stack wished for trickbind
Game 3 draw as we had 6 minutes after game 2

Round 2- TES 2-0 Win
Game 1- comboed off turn 3
Game 2- comboed off turn 5

Round 3- Tezzerator 1-2 Loss
Game 1- Comboed late as drawing poorly.
Game 2- mulligan has chalice on 1 and leyline of void in play lost
Game 3- made a big misplay where i should have wished for surgical extraction but didnt and ultimately cost me the game.

Round 4- Merfolk 2-0 win
Game 1- comboed off turn 4
Game 2- comboed off turn 4 again

Round 5- Elves 1-2 loss
Game 1- comboed off turn 2
Game 2- didnt draw last combo piece in time... was one turn late
Game 3- got cabal therapy and lost on stupid misplay with brainstorm in hand.

Round 6 I dropped cause I wanted to go watch Pacman and mayweather... but really after watching fight should have just stayed to get more reps w deck.... overall I feel had I played better I could have easily made top 8.... deck was extremely powerful and felt i couldnt lose once omniscience was in play.

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice over the last week.... I appreciate it.

[bodea1981]

The red splash is good, a lot of people seem to like it. Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast is very good when you are facing a meta with a lit of controlish decks and disposes Meddling Mages. A lot of people also argue that Young Pyromancer is a good SB option against Miracles and the mirror.

On the other hand, the black splash gives you edge against decks splashing Meddling Mages and Death & Taxes.
Massacre is great. And Toxic Deluge is also pretty nice to have.

I personally like the black splash better, I also like how Lim-Dul's Vault enables instant-speed RtA-kills against CiP-Triggers and is basically Vampiric Tutor. Miracles basically has to counter it out of fear for Boseiju (which I didn't play, but certainly will in the future).

Black doesn't have a creature like Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor, but I had the idea of jamming Gurmag Angler and/or Tasigur into the SB against Miracles. They can't be hit by Counterbalance and Angler kills in 4 swings while Tasigur is one turn slower but can potentially dig up nice stuff and/or fuels DTT.

I tried red splash... it was fine... it really felt like win more against miracles. Im anxious to try the black spash... i feel like its good and that game against ur bad matches become much better.

[Baum]

[...]
Black doesn't have a creature like Young Pyromancer or Monastery Mentor, but I had the idea of jamming Gurmag Angler and/or Tasigur into the SB against Miracles. They can't be hit by Counterbalance and Angler kills in 4 swings while Tasigur is one turn slower but can potentially dig up nice stuff and/or fuels DTT.

Right now I'm running Pack Rat as the sideboard creature. It's great against Miracles but slightly weaker against the mirror because you want to keep a full hand to stop them from comboing. But it still works if you're careful.

In theory, I don't like Angler and Tasigur against Miracles, because they are weak to a Jace bounce.

Edit:
How often do you use Pact of Negation? I'm thinking about cutting it for Misdirection or Mindbreak Trap (depending on the metagame). I hate the fact that it is often impossible to use Pact defensively due to the upkeep cost. Also, if you use Pact, you have to go for the RtA win for the same reason, which could be an Issue.

My current Ub sideboard for reference (no Trickbind because I run Lim-Dûl's Vault):

2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pack Rat
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Noxious Revival
1 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pact of Negation

[bodea1981]

Right now I'm running Pack Rat as the sideboard creature. It's great against Miracles but slightly weaker against the mirror because you want to keep a full hand to stop them from comboing. But it still works if you're careful.

In theory, I don't like Angler and Tasigur against Miracles, because they are weak to a Jace bounce.

Edit:
How often do you use Pact of Negation? I'm thinking about cutting it for Misdirection or Mindbreak Trap (depending on the metagame). I hate the fact that it is often impossible to use Pact defensively due to the upkeep cost. Also, if you use Pact, you have to go for the RtA win for the same reason, which could be an Issue.

My current Ub sideboard for reference (no Trickbind because I run Lim-Dûl's Vault):

2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pack Rat
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Noxious Revival
1 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pact of Negation



I am on the fence about pact as well... i never seem to use it or never want to wish for it.

[Adan]

Right now I'm running Pack Rat as the sideboard creature. It's great against Miracles but slightly weaker against the mirror because you want to keep a full hand to stop them from comboing. But it still works if you're careful.

In theory, I don't like Angler and Tasigur against Miracles, because they are weak to a Jace bounce.

In the other hand, if they tap down early for Jace bounce, it gives you a window to combo as it bottle-necks their mana for all their 1-mana counters and especially Counterspell. And Jace is relatively easy to hit with Spell Pierce.


Edit:
How often do you use Pact of Negation? I'm thinking about cutting it for Misdirection or Mindbreak Trap (depending on the metagame). I hate the fact that it is often impossible to use Pact defensively due to the upkeep cost. Also, if you use Pact, you have to go for the RtA win for the same reason, which could be an Issue.

Yeah, I realized that Pact of Negation was the shittiest card in my whole 75 when I played Milano last Saturday. Finished 6-2 and got 16th. I exchanged PoN for Flusterstorm for a 8-man-sideevent I played on Sunday, went 2-1.


My current Ub sideboard for reference (no Trickbind because I run Lim-Dûl's Vault):

2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pack Rat
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Noxious Revival
1 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pact of Negation


I don't understand Spell Pierce, Swan Song, Engineered Explosives and Pact of Negation. When you are running black, you definitely want to splash Massacre. Spell Pierce and Swan Song are terrible wishtargets in my opinion, Flusterstorm is the superior card. I also think you should find room for Slaughter Pact or something.

The two matches I lost were always due to Ethersworn Canonist and your build looks somewhat naked against it.

[TraxDaMax]

In the other hand, if they tap down early for Jace bounce, it gives you a window to combo as it bottle-necks their mana for all their 1-mana counters and especially Counterspell. And Jace is relatively easy to hit with Spell Pierce.



Yeah, I realized that Pact of Negation was the shittiest card in my whole 75 when I played Milano last Saturday. Finished 6-2 and got 16th. I exchanged PoN for Flusterstorm for a 8-man-sideevent I played on Sunday, went 2-1.



I don't understand Spell Pierce, Swan Song, Engineered Explosives and Pact of Negation. When you are running black, you definitely want to splash Massacre. Spell Pierce and Swan Song are terrible wishtargets in my opinion, Flusterstorm is the superior card. I also think you should find room for Slaughter Pact or something.

The two matches I lost were always due to Ethersworn Canonist and your build looks somewhat naked against it.

I was brainstorming earlier about Swan Song being a pretty nice card vs Sneak n Show. It basicly hits everything in their deck that is relevant, and from what I heard it isn't a fantastic match up.
I haven't played it or anything, so I'll have to find that out. Flusterstorm is generally probably better though.

[Baum]

[...]
I don't understand Spell Pierce, Swan Song, Engineered Explosives and Pact of Negation. When you are running black, you definitely want to splash Massacre. Spell Pierce and Swan Song are terrible wishtargets in my opinion, Flusterstorm is the superior card. I also think you should find room for Slaughter Pact or something.

The two matches I lost were always due to Ethersworn Canonist and your build looks somewhat naked against it.

Spell Pierce and Swan Song aren't really Wish targets. I board them in against combo decks, Miracles and decks where i want to cut a couple of my maindeck Flusterstorms (e.g Lands). Spell Pierce also comes in against Delver and MUD.

The Engineered Explosives are a test. All the relevant hatebears are CMC 2 anyway, so they get blown up. EE also hits stuff like Thorn of Amethyst and Spheres (Lands and MUD are relevant in my metagame) and Counterbalance (though I only board in one against them). It can also slow down Elves if necessary.
There might come up situations where I die because I can't play and activate Explosives in the same turn. As I said: Right now it's just a test and I might switch back to Massacre.

[Adan]

I was brainstorming earlier about Swan Song being a pretty nice card vs Sneak n Show. It basicly hits everything in their deck that is relevant, and from what I heard it isn't a fantastic match up.
I haven't played it or anything, so I'll have to find that out. Flusterstorm is generally probably better though.

It is fantastic. If you can Show and Tell into Omniscience and resolve Emrakul, they are always dead, no matter how many cards they draw with Griselbrand. In that case their only out would be to put in Sneak Attack and sneak in a blocker for Emrakul, but they will still lose their boardposition while everything's 4free on your side.
Griselbrand is basically the only relevant card they have. And if you are clever, you can bait 2 Griselbrand activations, then fetch up Emrakul with Wish --> Call and then smash him nevertheless.

Oh, and Thoughtseize is a great card in this pseudo-mirror. Probably the best card to have.


Spell Pierce and Swan Song aren't really Wish targets. I board them in against combo decks, Miracles and decks where i want to cut a couple of my maindeck Flusterstorms (e.g Lands). Spell Pierce also comes in against Delver and MUD.

Ah well, I think you should play Spell Pierces in the mainboard in general as it is the more flexible card. In Milano I was able to hit a couple of SDTs, Aether Vials, Counterbalances and Liliana of the Veil, and that always won me games on the long run. Run 3 Pierces main and add one Flusterstorm to your SB and you should be fine.


The Engineered Explosives are a test. All the relevant hatebears are CMC 2 anyway, so they get blown up. EE also hits stuff like Thorn of Amethyst and Spheres (Lands and MUD are relevant in my metagame) and Counterbalance (though I only board in one against them). It can also slow down Elves if necessary.
There might come up situations where I die because I can't play and activate Explosives in the same turn. As I said: Right now it's just a test and I might switch back to Massacre.

The only justification I can see to play EE is a metagame that is infested with decks running Chalice and Trinisphere. But against hatebears, you can simply run Toxic Deluge. It usually costs you only 1-2 life to swipe everything relevant. Massacre won me the game 3 against Lejay after I saw a Savannah in g2 because it was 4free.

On the other hand, EE can also be great against Death & Taxes (although I also played against a GW build splashing Gaddock Teeg and SB Chokes and Krosan Grip, Teeg blanks Massacre as well as EE, so yeah).

[Baum]

Yeah, I could see switching to MD Spell Pierces. Right now my MD disruption package is 4 FoW, 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Boseiju.

The problem with Toxic Deluge is that it costs 4 with Thalia in play. Otherwise I would probably use it. EE costs a total of 4 as well but it can be split over two turns.

Another argument against Massacre is that D&T can actually play around it with some Hands by using Karakas, Canopy or Flagstones. Same goes for Shardless BUG with Meddling Mage.

[kuroko16]

2 omnitell in top8 here in Italy (Ovino Milan) all of them with red splash

[famdoola]

I am on the fence about pact as well... i never seem to use it or never want to wish for it.



Hey so, i've been lurking for quite a while, so just wanna say thanks to everyone who has contributed -- decided tonight to add to the convo/share my decklist & experiences.

First off, As far as PoN goes, i agree -- in hundreds of games i cant think of 1 time where i wished for it, or really wanted to side it in, and other cards are just more effective it seems like, but perhaps those who play 2 MD can convince me otherwise.

This is the list that mine has evolved into over the past 2 months or so, and has been giving me way better results than the more traditional decklist was giving me.


COMBO STUFF 13
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Cunning Wish

PERMISSION 8
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction

DRAW 20
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Impulse

LAND 19
8 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Crystal Vein
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All


SIDEBOARD 15
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Curfew
1 Intuition
------
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Back to Basics
1 Pact of Negation
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
1 Wipe Away
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Echoing Truth

---Unfortunately i dont have the $$$$ for Duals, City of Traitors, or anything else right now, so i don't like testing with them as i want to know my deck as best as possible, and the Veins/Tomb definitely can change the way you play ---


WIN-CON

So i dont run RtA or Noxious, and rely strictly on Emrakul for the Win. Having 1 has been pretty effective, but once i get a 2nd copy i will test with the 2nd --


The goal ultimate win is SnT - Omni - Emrakul, Turn 2, Attack , Wish- Curfew, Attack again ---- I like the fact that 1 Curfew replaces Nox/RtA and leaves me another SB slot, plus as i've read on this thread, the RtA win isnt always 100%. It has also been great in the mirror, and can be used in a ton of different situations.

And if you want a laugh, i've actually Wished for a Swan Song and countered my own brainstorm, so i could win after a BacktoBasics lockdown, so yeah LOL.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SnT-Emrakul

Like all of us, what we dont want to do is straight SnT-Emrakul, but unfortunately thats the way it goes sometimes ---

So i was wondering if we could compile a list of other decks where this option ISNT as bad as it seems.

Through playtesting theres definitely some decks that dont have an answer for it at all, so i think it would be good to know i.e Traditionally UR Delver/ShardlessBUG as well as others,
don't run removal, aside from lilly , but certain board states in any matchup can give you enough info to know hes safe (probe, surgical, mana available etc.,) --

I think this would be helpful to have accessible to look at so it can get better ingrained because decklists are constantly evolving and it can be difficult to keep track of what's what.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MD SURGICAL EXTRACTION

This started as just an idea, stemming from the black splashing with Thoughtseize.

Now, i haven't tested Thoughtseize, and it definitely seems better, but doing so means adding the Black and opening ourselves up to Wasteland hate and again ($$$ For DUALS)

Surgicals benefits at the very least are checkout opponents hand...and see if we can go off.

but it can also remove 4 threats while doing so, be it Counterspells, Hatebears, Goyfs, Combo pieces or whatever pertinent from their library.

So yes, you are reliant on the spell hitting the graveyard, but the fact that you can even target a Fetchland can stricken a mana base so we can go off, or hit a cantrip so they have less answers can really give us the time we need to assemble and go off.

Many times i've had 2 SnT in hand game one, bait counter with first, pass turn -- hit surgical on their end step, remove counters/see that i can go, and Win next turn.

All these things considered, and a bunch of playtesting has me convinced that a 3/1 split of Probe/Surgical is really stellar for Mono-U.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


IMPULSE

- I'm still on the fence with this, and have periodically put an ETI or 4th Probe, in it's place.

It's definitely great to grab with FF, and can help keep putting junk at the bottom with DTT and Preordains as well as grabbing what you need, but im not sure if it's benefits there outweigh the ETI,4th Probe, or a prospective 2nd Emrakul.

I Think with a gun to my head i'd probably exchange it for another Emrakul, but yeah $$$ is tight and dont have a 2nd one right now. :rolleyes:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SIDEBOARD CHOICES


Already talked about Curfew, so i guess ill defend the other oddity there which is:

Back to Basics.

When i first put this in the Sideboard, it was just a placeholder until i got other cards, but the effectiveness of it has convinced me that it needs to stay.

There are greedy mana-bases all over the Meta, and Back to Basics becomes a must-counter, and if it resolves pretty much seals the game, atleast in my experience.

I absolutely love it and has proven effective early,mid and late game, and is pretty much always sided in aside from a few matchups.

We aren't a crazy glass cannon turn 1/2 type deck, although sometimes yes it works out that way, as we often win with less than 10 life, so to me having a card that adds to their must-counter list, helps greatly in those matchups.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CONCERNS



PACT OF NEGATION

like i was saying up top, it hasn't really felt like a necessity but it's still just hanging out in my SB, so i'm not really sure what to do with it.

INTUITION

Feels clunky, and is pretty much still in my SB because of like 2 times where it was useful, but i feel like the only place it should be, if anywhere, is MD.


2ND SURGICAL

Even with 1 MD, i have found it useful to wish for one in G1, but i'm not entirely sure if it doesn't have a better replacement in the SB.



DAZE // MISDIRECTION // SPELL PIERCE // 2ND FLUSTER // STIFLE


Daze - it can be awesome cuz Wish-Daze, is only costing 3 mana, which can be really nice and surprising as no1 really expects us to be playing it, and has definitely helped in mana-restrictive counter wars.

Misdirection -- I liked the idea of it against discard after SB, cut it just feels terrible going wish - misdirection/exiling a cantrip or whatever G1. Still not completely out of the question but as of right now its been cut.

Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm -- It's definitely relatively easy to wish for either and cast, or to prep for an upcoming counter-war, so this has become more of a which to MD and which to SB type situation , like do i keep x2 spell pierce and 1x fluster MD or x3 spellpierce and x2 flusters SB. I definitely dont feel like going under 2 spell pierce MD is correct.

Stilfe - Becomes really versatile and great to have in addition to trickbind, attacking mana bases, as well as a target for FF. I have really loved in it in use against a variety of decks.


So I'm thinking...

SIDEBOARD 15
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Curfew
------
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Back to Basics
1 Pact of Negation
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
1 Wipe Away
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Echoing Truth

(-1) - Intuition
(-1) - Pact of Negation
(-1) - Surgical
(+1) - Stifle
(+1) - Spell Pierce
(+1) - Ratchet Bomb


I also haven't had the chance to try out Defense Grid, I only own 1 so i'm not sure if it's even viable as 1-of, perhaps theres something you guys think i could drop to try it out with?

Also, is Ratchet Bomb viable for Mono U ? Seems on first glance like it would be, as like EE it can get rid of a shit-ton of problems in one fell swoop, maybe Truth could be swapped for it instead of the 2nd surgical?

Thanks for Reading, and thanks again to everyone who has contributed before me, i have a big local tourney (25+ competitive) coming up this wednesday, that i'll be sure to give the rundown of after i go undefeated. :cool::cool::cool::cool: lol
Cheers

[GoblinZ]

2 omnitell in top8 here in Italy (Ovino Milan) all of them with red splash

Where can I find the decklists from Ovino Spring? Thank u.

[HeicNoenumPax]

Where can I find the decklists from Ovino Spring? Thank u.

http://www.metagame.it/liste-mazzi-legacy/2209-legacy-top-8-main-event-ovinospring-2015.html

[kuroko16]

Where can I find the decklists from Ovino Spring? Thank u.

Main_Legacy@Ovino_Spring - 208 Players

3°

6 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Ancient Tomb
2 Volcanic Island
1 City of Traitors
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Omniscience
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Impulse
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
60
SIDEBOARD
1 Dig Through Time
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Pyroblast
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Sudden Shock
1 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Through the Breach
1 Release the Ants



6°

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
5 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Dig Through Time
4 Cunning Wish
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Impulse
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
60
SIDEBOARD
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
1 Release the Ants
1 Wipe Away
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Through the Breach
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria





red splash for both of them

opinion?

[bodea1981]

Main_Legacy@Ovino_Spring - 208 Players

3°

6 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Ancient Tomb
2 Volcanic Island
1 City of Traitors
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Omniscience
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Impulse
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
60
SIDEBOARD
1 Dig Through Time
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Pyroblast
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Sudden Shock
1 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Through the Breach
1 Release the Ants



6°

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
5 Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Force of Will
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Dig Through Time
4 Cunning Wish
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Impulse
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
60
SIDEBOARD
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Trickbind
1 Release the Ants
1 Wipe Away
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Through the Breach
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria





red splash for both of them

opinion?

They are basically the Kyoto GP lists and are fine... I do like the Iona in the board... thats very techie.

[TheRandomGuy]

What matchups does Young Pyromancer come in? What cards are taken out for it post board?

[trolliver]

Hello guys! Always wanted to hardcast Emrakul så i think this is the deck for me :) But i have some questions. First of all I think i want to play with the black splash because I already got the UGS. But its hard to decide whaat build to go. Any suggestions? I have read the thread but have not come to any conclusion...

My second question (call me dumb but i dont see it...) is how can you cast RtA without EtI?

I hope this post isnt to bad...

And ofc i can skip the bsplash and just go mono.

Have a nice day!

[pandaman]

You can use Omniscience on top with RtA because it's unlikely they will have a CMC 10 card in their deck. So you don't necessarily need Emrakul.

Regarding the Black splash, I have had a lot of success with Thoughtseize x 4, Massacre x 2, and Swamp x 1 from the sideboard, with a single Sea and 7-10 fetchlands in main. 10 fetchlands is too much damage, so currently reduced to 7. Others, such as Kei, have been playing Thoughtseize x 4 main with good results. So you can experiment with what works better for you.

Some use Toxic Deluge instead of Massacre. I tested both, but every time I drew a Toxic Deluge it seemed that I didn't have enough life to activate it and win. But it does play around Gaddock Teeg because it's CMC 3, unlike massacre, which you won't be able to cast if Teeg is on the board (you'll have to Cunning Wish for Slaughter Pact/Bounce first). But I haven't seen Teeg around for a while (more common are D&T hatebears and Meddling Mage from UWx decks, and more recently Shardless BUG with sideboard Savannah for Meddling Mage, so watch out for that!), so I perceive the risk of having that situation arise as low.

Thoughtseize from the sideboard improved your dreadful matchups of Storm and Reanimator to the point that, in my opinion, you're better than 50/50 postboard. You have more cantrips than either deck so you'll be able to find your disruption more consistently. Against Storm (Infernal Tutor) and Reanimator (Iona) you can use Surgical Extraction off Cunning Wish after discard (you might pick other cards, of course, depending on the game state, but that's what I would go for in a vacuum). Decks that play Thoughtseize main have an even more positive matchup against combo, but sacrifice a little more mana stability than the splash from the sideboard, and also take more damage, which can be relevant against the Delver decks if they get a fast start. Of course, you could use that Thoughtseize to take the Delver and slow their clock, so there is another application of it!

Not too relevant (because it relates only to the Research//Development Laboratory Maniac kill I use with Enter the Infinite, and that is not the currently accepted "best kill"), even if you don't board in Thoughtseize, you can still Research for up to three to put in your library to draw before Maniac if you're worried about what might be in your opponent's hand (Sudden Shock, Wipe Away or Sudden Death, for example, which would kill/bounce your Maniac with the draw spell on the stack, causing you to lose the game. Well, it really wouldn't with Wipe Away because you'd just counter your own draw spell, recast Maniac, and go again. But with the others, it would be fatal.

Targeted discard is incredibly powerful in this deck, as in any combo deck. If you also run Gitaxian Probe, you could test Cabal Therapy instead of Thoughtseize, but only if you're very confident in your ability to use it without Probe as a crutch and have a good knowledge of the format and each matchup and the cards your opponent had likely found and has in his or her hand. I'd prefer Thoughtseize, because although I'm very good with Therapy, I feel that there is such a diversification of hate that can affect this deck that you might benefit from the 100% certainty of hitting a relevant card Thoughtseize provides and Therapy lacks.

[kkkant]

I dont see the point on playing thoughtseize on the sb. I think Grafdigger's cage fits that role much better. It works aggainst reanimator, dredge, ANT and elves much better than discard does, the 4 of them really bad matchups.

On another topic, im testing with 17 lands and 4 lotus petal MD (also, 2 lim duls vault, but im not pretty sold on that) and they are working GREAT.
My point is that this deck was born con 19/20 lands, including 6 islands because of the MD dream halls, which was an alternate wincon which we should be able to hardcast efficiently.
Since the impression of DTT and dream halls's repplacemente, i think its not longer necessary to have that many mana sources available, since we have CMC3 at the top of our curve.
Im currently playing 8 fetchlands, 4 islands (acuatlly more than i need), 2 u seas (just for limduls and massacre), 3 sol lands and 4 petals.
Petals have not only been great making turn 2 or even 1 combo possible, but exceptional for making those dead land draws into DTT accelerators (i've been casting turn 2 DTT with 1 petal really often)

[pandaman]

I really don't know how to respond to a statement that you don't see the point of playing Thoughtseize in the sideboard. It's targeted hand disruption that allows you to take from your opponent what they need to execute their combo. Grafdigger's Cage doesn't fit that role at all. If you want to play reactive hate, that's fine of course, but I'm much rather obtain perfect information and take the most threatening card in my opponent's hand away from them. I should add that Thoughtseize can also be used, judiciously of course, against control decks that seek to out-counter you. It allows you to see what you need to deal with and what to play around. Again, information and proactivity. I find it has been working well for me.

[trolliver]

You can use Omniscience on top with RtA because it's unlikely they will have a CMC 10 card in their deck. So you don't necessarily need Emrakul.

Regarding the Black splash, I have had a lot of success with Thoughtseize x 4, Massacre x 2, and Swamp x 1 from the sideboard, with a single Sea and 7-10 fetchlands in main. 10 fetchlands is too much damage, so currently reduced to 7. Others, such as Kei, have been playing Thoughtseize x 4 main with good results. So you can experiment with what works better for you.

Some use Toxic Deluge instead of Massacre. I tested both, but every time I drew a Toxic Deluge it seemed that I didn't have enough life to activate it and win. But it does play around Gaddock Teeg because it's CMC 3, unlike massacre, which you won't be able to cast if Teeg is on the board (you'll have to Cunning Wish for Slaughter Pact/Bounce first). But I haven't seen Teeg around for a while (more common are D&T hatebears and Meddling Mage from UWx decks, and more recently Shardless BUG with sideboard Savannah for Meddling Mage, so watch out for that!), so I perceive the risk of having that situation arise as low.

Thoughtseize from the sideboard improved your dreadful matchups of Storm and Reanimator to the point that, in my opinion, you're better than 50/50 postboard. You have more cantrips than either deck so you'll be able to find your disruption more consistently. Against Storm (Infernal Tutor) and Reanimator (Iona) you can use Surgical Extraction off Cunning Wish after discard (you might pick other cards, of course, depending on the game state, but that's what I would go for in a vacuum). Decks that play Thoughtseize main have an even more positive matchup against combo, but sacrifice a little more mana stability than the splash from the sideboard, and also take more damage, which can be relevant against the Delver decks if they get a fast start. Of course, you could use that Thoughtseize to take the Delver and slow their clock, so there is another application of it!

Not too relevant (because it relates only to the Research//Development Laboratory Maniac kill I use with Enter the Infinite, and that is not the currently accepted "best kill"), even if you don't board in Thoughtseize, you can still Research for up to three to put in your library to draw before Maniac if you're worried about what might be in your opponent's hand (Sudden Shock, Wipe Away or Sudden Death, for example, which would kill/bounce your Maniac with the draw spell on the stack, causing you to lose the game. Well, it really wouldn't with Wipe Away because you'd just counter your own draw spell, recast Maniac, and go again. But with the others, it would be fatal.

Targeted discard is incredibly powerful in this deck, as in any combo deck. If you also run Gitaxian Probe, you could test Cabal Therapy instead of Thoughtseize, but only if you're very confident in your ability to use it without Probe as a crutch and have a good knowledge of the format and each matchup and the cards your opponent had likely found and has in his or her hand. I'd prefer Thoughtseize, because although I'm very good with Therapy, I feel that there is such a diversification of hate that can affect this deck that you might benefit from the 100% certainty of hitting a relevant card Thoughtseize provides and Therapy lacks.


WOW thanks for a really good reply. This is true the source! :) Im going off to bed so i will post a better reply tomorrow. But really big thanks!

[kkkant]

I really don't know how to respond to a statement that you don't see the point of playing Thoughtseize in the sideboard. It's targeted hand disruption that allows you to take from your opponent what they need to execute their combo. Grafdigger's Cage doesn't fit that role at all. If you want to play reactive hate, that's fine of course, but I'm much rather obtain perfect information and take the most threatening card in my opponent's hand away from them. I should add that Thoughtseize can also be used, judiciously of course, against control decks that seek to out-counter you. It allows you to see what you need to deal with and what to play around. Again, information and proactivity. I find it has been working well for me.

Im not saying thoughtseize isnt good- its an incredible card, and if i had the space on my sb i would play it no doubt. But i find more effective, since we are already playing disruption in the form of counterspells and getting information via gitaxian probes, to have a lock to which they are obbligated to respond (in the case of reanimator and dredge) rather than another disruption. Remember that the best way to stop a combo is Disruption+Clock+Lock. I guess its more efficient if we are playing the three of them instead of 2.
And as an ANT player, i know cage isnt nearly enought to stop us, so i guess thoughtseize is better in this matchup.
On the other hand, seize doesnt help vs dredge at all, and its really a tough match up that we are not gonna resolve with 1 surgical and 1 noxious revival.

[wonderPreaux]

Im not saying thoughtseize isnt good- its an incredible card, and if i had the space on my sb i would play it no doubt. But i find more effective, since we are already playing disruption in the form of counterspells and getting information via gitaxian probes, to have a lock to which they are obbligated to respond (in the case of reanimator and dredge) rather than another disruption.
And as an ANT player, i know cage isnt nearly enought to stop us, but neither are a few thoughtseizes. Vs elves im not sure which one is best, but if i have to choose i guess im sticking with cage.

Were I to be playing this deck, I would play UB. I think Thoughtseize should be used as a substitute for some Probes and some number of counters, letting you combine disruption and info into one slot. The info is the same, and Omni-Tell can get such high value from Dig and Wish that the comparative slowness of Seizing an opponent versus Probing and cantripping is acceptable.

[kkkant]

Were I to be playing this deck, I would play UB. I think Thoughtseize should be used as a substitute for some Probes and some number of counters, letting you combine disruption and info into one slot. The info is the same, and Omni-Tell can get such high value from Dig and Wish that the comparative slowness of Seizing an opponent versus Probing and cantripping is acceptable.

I was talking about SB thoughtseize, MD is a different story. Although im not entirely comfortable with it, i can see why there are so many people using it. I just dont like playing a basic swamp, and i dont know if would play MD seize without it.

[pandaman]

It's difficult to debate the question because I'm running LabMan kill through Research//Development, not the Emrakul/RtI kill, and I'm not running Probr. So we're probably at odds with our opinions mostly because you're thinking about your list and I'm thinking about mine. And also, I've just written Dredge off from the sideboard entirely. If I hit it, I just mulligan looking for a T2 kill. I'll leave it to the rest of the format to make sure it doesn't get to me. Combo (Storm and Reanimator), however, I confident I can take because bringing in four Thoughtseize gives me 12 disruption spells in g2 as well as 12 cantrips and 3 DTTs to find them.

[Adan]

My result in Milano last weekend:

Jund Dephts 2-0
Death & Taxes 0-2
ANT 2-0
Shardless BUG 2-0
RUG Delver 2-0
UR Omnitell 2-1
Thopters 0-2
Shardless BUG 2-1

6-2 in mainevent

Miracles 2-1
Death n' Taxes Green 2-0
Miracles 0-2

2-1 in a sideevent

With this list:

5 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Stand
1 Mistry Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 City of Traitors

2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
3 Dig Through Time
4 Cunning Wish
2 Lim-Dul's Vault

//Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Massacre
1 Swamp
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Wipe Away
1 Pact of Negation / Flusterstorm (Mainevent / Sideevent)
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Dig Through Time
1 Noxious Revival

Some random notes:

- 1 maindeck U-Sea is probably enough, I think I'll just play another Island as 18 mana is already quite light and you need to hit landdrops. I feel like playing another Island instead of the U-Sea would make the deck even more streamlined.

- Lim-Dul's Vault = Vampiric Tutor. Super smooth card, I was really surprised. It's also a quite good counter bait against Miracles because you could potantially search up a Boseiju.

- Pact of Negation was the most senseless card in my 75 for the mainevent, which is why I changed it to Flusterstorm. Still not sure whether that's necessary, but at least you can board in Flusterstorm as a supplement counterspell against decks where you need it like Reanimator, ANT and the mirrormatch.

- Spirit of the Labyrinth = bitch (lost g1 against DnT due to it)

- Ethersworn Canonist = bitch (lost the g3 against DnT and the g2 against Thopters against it)

- maindeck Gitaxian Probe and SB Thoughtseize feels good to me, Gitaxian Probe gives you info and lets you cycle through your deck more quickly, which also means it fuels DTT. I find this more important in g1 than having maindeck Thoughtseize as it has a certain clunkyness to it. I prefer to board it in against deck where you can efford to go at a slower pace

[Cave]

Hello guys! Always wanted to hardcast Emrakul så i think this is the deck for me :) But i have some questions. First of all I think i want to play with the black splash because I already got the UGS. But its hard to decide whaat build to go. Any suggestions? I have read the thread but have not come to any conclusion...

My second question (call me dumb but i dont see it...) is how can you cast RtA without EtI?

I hope this post isnt to bad...

And ofc i can skip the bsplash and just go mono.

Have a nice day!

One really easy way to close the game with Release the Ants without going through Enter the Infinite is what follows.

1. Drop the combo (SnT->Omniscience)
2. Start cantripping until you get to one of the following scenarios.

2.1. Hand consisting of Emrakul/Omniscience, Brainstorm and Cunning Wish

You simply brainstorm and put the Big Fat Card on the top, then Wish for Ants and GG.

2.2. Hand consisting of Emrakul/Omniscience and Cunning Wish

In this case, you Wish for Firemind's Foresight. You cast foresight and get Brainstorm, Impulse, Cunning Wish.
You cast Brainstorm, put the Big Fat Card back on the top, then cast Cunning Wish for Release the Ants and close the game.
If, for whatever reason, Release the Ants fails to close the game, you impulse into Emrakul, hardcast it, and profit.

2.3. Hand constisting of Cunning Wish and Cunning Wish

You wish for Eladamri's Call, cast it, and get Emrakul.
At this point, your hand is Emrakul+Cunning Wish, which is case 2.2, so you proceed as it's written in there.

There you go.

P.S. To be honest, I lately feel like RtA finisher is kinda redundant as mr. Flying Spaghetti Monster usually gets there on its own.
I'm probably thinking of dropping my maindeck EtI for a second copy of Emrakul, and maybe even dropping SB RtA for a Curfew, just in case I need Annhilator 13 for some reason.
But then again, I run UB (4 therapies md) and this might hinder my bluecount further. I don't know, I need testing.
Any thoughts of it? (Btw, Massacre is just God)

[KobeBryan]

One really easy way to close the game with Release the Ants without going through Enter the Infinite is what follows.

1. Drop the combo (SnT->Omniscience)
2. Start cantripping until you get to one of the following scenarios.

2.1. Hand consisting of Emrakul/Omniscience, Brainstorm and Cunning Wish

You simply brainstorm and put the Big Fat Card on the top, then Wish for Ants and GG.

2.2. Hand consisting of Emrakul/Omniscience and Cunning Wish

In this case, you Wish for Firemind's Foresight. You cast foresight and get Brainstorm, Impulse, Cunning Wish.
You cast Brainstorm, put the Big Fat Card back on the top, then cast Cunning Wish for Release the Ants and close the game.
If, for whatever reason, Release the Ants fails to close the game, you impulse into Emrakul, hardcast it, and profit.

2.3. Hand constisting of Cunning Wish and Cunning Wish

You wish for Eladamri's Call, cast it, and get Emrakul.
At this point, your hand is Emrakul+Cunning Wish, which is case 2.2, so you proceed as it's written in there.

There you go.

P.S. To be honest, I lately feel like RtA finisher is kinda redundant as mr. Flying Spaghetti Monster usually gets there on its own.
I'm probably thinking of dropping my maindeck EtI for a second copy of Emrakul, and maybe even dropping SB RtA for a Curfew, just in case I need Annhilator 13 for some reason.
But then again, I run UB (4 therapies md) and this might hinder my bluecount further. I don't know, I need testing.
Any thoughts of it? (Btw, Massacre is just God)

Massacre is good, but sudden shock and pyroclasm is very strong.

[Cave]

Massacre is good, but sudden shock and pyroclasm RAPES

I know, I know. Still, most hatebears you want to deal with in this game are white, so I guess massacre is not too shabby as well.

One really good pro-black point is that this deck tends to go off on turn 3 with exactly three mana, because you only pack 2-3 sol lands and not 5-6 like our sneaky counsins.
In this scenario, pretty much all support counters* tend to be sitting in our hand with nothing to do except being excellent targets for all our swear words.
By splashing black, you can discard on turn 2 and go off on turn 3: this of course implies some major downsides (lucky topdecks, not being able to respond on-stack) but in most cases it is worth splashing for Sea (just look at what ANT can do with barely packing 6-7 discard spells).

For the sake of "this has to be said", I would like to remember that packing therapies not only helps with protecting our combo, harassing our opponent and synergizing with probe.
Running CT also allows some sick combo shenanigans with EtI, where if you EtI, then you can take up to 5 additional turns in a row by casting all therapies + emrakul, then take your additional turn, attack for 15+annihilator 6, sac emrakul to flashback therapy, reshuffle graveyard, then use all your hand (30-40 cards) to dig into the deck until you find EtI again and repeat the process. And that is 75 damage + Annihilator 30.
While EtI'ing into Ants win on the spot, this version of the combo also wins 100% of the time, allows you to remove undesired permanents (30 of them) and most importantly, takes out RtA from your sideboard for more effective g2 answers/wish targets; also you get protection from 14 total copies of Therapy (5+4+3+2), 4 FoWs and 3 Wishes. On a sidenote, you don't actually need to do this for 5 times (:tongue:) as usually 2 cycles of Emrakul attacking are well enought to win the game, so this is also only a bit slower than Ants finisher.
But yeah, I have yet to test this & it's such a minor thing; i had to say it tho.


*Non-fow

[famdoola]

I know, I know. Still, most hatebears you want to deal with in this game are white, so I guess massacre is not too shabby as well.

One really good pro-black point is that this deck tends to go off on turn 3 with exactly three mana, because you only pack 2-3 sol lands and not 5-6 like our sneaky counsins.
In this scenario, pretty much all support counters* tend to be sitting in our hand with nothing to do except being excellent targets for all our swear words.
By splashing black, you can discard on turn 2 and go off on turn 3: this of course implies some major downsides (lucky topdecks, not being able to respond on-stack) but in most cases it is worth splashing for Sea (just look at what ANT can do with barely packing 6-7 discard spells).

For the sake of "this has to be said", I would like to remember that packing therapies not only helps with protecting our combo, harassing our opponent and synergizing with probe.
Running CT also allows some sick combo shenanigans with EtI, where if you EtI, then you can take up to 5 additional turns in a row by casting all therapies + emrakul, then take your additional turn, attack for 15+annihilator 6, sac emrakul to flashback therapy, reshuffle graveyard, then use all your hand (30-40 cards) to dig into the deck until you find EtI again and repeat the process. And that is 75 damage + Annihilator 30.
While EtI'ing into Ants win on the spot, this version of the combo also wins 100% of the time, allows you to remove undesired permanents (30 of them) and most importantly, takes out RtA from your sideboard for more effective g2 answers/wish targets; also you get protection from 14 total copies of Therapy (5+4+3+2), 4 FoWs and 3 Wishes. On a sidenote, you don't actually need to do this for 5 times (:tongue:) as usually 2 cycles of Emrakul attacking are well enought to win the game, so this is also only a bit slower than Ants finisher.
But yeah, I have yet to test this & it's such a minor thing; i had to say it tho.


*Non-fow




In my post a couple days ago, this is kinda what i was getting at with RtA, that it just doesnt seem like a sure lock, and it doesnt do much of anything if its not killing the opponent -- whereas Curfew can bounce Marit Lage, A Hate Bear, Opposing SnT headaches AND you can Just Cast Emrakul - take 2nd turn, swing, curfew him back, play again, WIN.

So instead of ETI/Ants etc. its just 1 card that costs U that can be played off an End-Step wish if you really need to bounce and are mana deprived.

To me it just seems more versatile, and yeah thats my 2 cents. Would love to hear your thoughts.


I've also been experimenting with Merchant Scroll instead of Impulse as it can give you a DTT/Wish/Counter or grab a SB'd in instant since we have so many and puts those cards directly in our hand.

Merchant Scroll
Pros --- Can Grab DTT, Brainstorm, Counters, Wish and any instant blue card u may have SB'd in
--- Costs 1U
--- you KNOW what you're getting.
---- Shuffle Effect
Cons --- It's a Sorcery
---- Doesnt get you everything
--- It's not an Instant
Impulse
Pros ---- Instant
--- Costs 1U
---- Can put junk at the bottom and give you what you need which could be Anythin in the deck.
Cons ---- Don't know what you're getting
--Doesnt see much play aside from getting chosen for FF loop
---- Only Taking 1 out of 4



So, because of all this i've started testing it in Impulse's place.


and yoooooo the ETI/CABAL Therapy move sounds so awesome, i'd love to get some Seas so i can test out the U/B but as of right now stickin with the MonoU

[Dziga Murnau]

I am happy to see my approach to the deck (discard instead of counters that cost mana to use our mana effectively and combo out as soon as possible) gets more popular)
I looped Emri with Therapies even when he was single in main - with some funny things like FF -> Noxious Revival, Eladamri Call (previously casted), Intuition; Intuition for two left Therapies, Call for Emri, Nox for FF; cast Emri, Time Walk, draw FF, attack, flashback Therapy sacing Emri, shuffle grave into library; REPEAT.
FF is not just Magic. It is art. No other cards in sideboard do we need to win (sorry, ants and Eladamri), especially when we power it up with Lim-Dul's Vault.
EtI as far as I love this card also should not be played. Another Emri in the slot is just better.

[trolliver]

Thx fpr the answers earlier in the thread. Sry for not quoting... So my feeling tells me that the thoughtsieze is very good in the main. Ive played esper before so that card is a big favorite of mine. But dont we take much more dmg when we also play lim dum? With the petals you can afford the extra dmg because you could go off earlier right? And also with petals how is the consistency with the deck. Should be harder to come back if you fail once.

So this is just questions and some ideas from me in the discussion.

Have a nice weekend guys!

also i will post my list when soon :)

[Dziga Murnau]

Thx fpr the answers earlier in the thread. Sry for not quoting... So my feeling tells me that the thoughtsieze is very good in the main. Ive played esper before so that card is a big favorite of mine. But dont we take much more dmg when we also play lim dum? With the petals you can afford the extra dmg because you could go off earlier right? And also with petals how is the consistency with the deck. Should be harder to come back if you fail once.

So this is just questions and some ideas from me in the discussion.

Have a nice weekend guys!

also i will post my list when soon :)
In my opinion, Petals are for YOLO decks, be it glass cannons like AllSpells/Belcher, or more stable, resilient and protected but still YOLO ones like TinFins/ANT/TES. OmNiTell does not need that much speed in exchange with losing stability. We already have Cities to be fast and we have no reason to be even faster.

LDV very seldom eats more than Vampiric Tutor, at least in my experience. Besides, it's so often a counter bait, it really doesn't matter if it resolves or not - we either get what we need or "discard" their answer. It's a win-win position (especially I love when LDV gets countered with FoW).

[bodea1981]

I am happy to see my approach to the deck (discard instead of counters that cost mana to use our mana effectively and combo out as soon as possible) gets more popular)
I looped Emri with Therapies even when he was single in main - with some funny things like FF -> Noxious Revival, Eladamri Call (previously casted), Intuition; Intuition for two left Therapies, Call for Emri, Nox for FF; cast Emri, Time Walk, draw FF, attack, flashback Therapy sacing Emri, shuffle grave into library; REPEAT.
FF is not just Magic. It is art. No other cards in sideboard do we need to win (sorry, ants and Eladamri), especially when we power it up with Lim-Dul's Vault.
EtI as far as I love this card also should not be played. Another Emri in the slot is just better.

So what does your list look like today??

I am curious since out of all the black splash lists i've seen, I have liked yours the most as a starting point. I started at the list you posted that was in Russian... sorry I cant read or speak Russian.

[Dziga Murnau]

So what does your list look like today??

I am curious since out of all the black splash lists i've seen, I have liked yours the most as a starting point. I started at the list you posted that was in Russian... sorry I cant read or speak Russian.

Thank you) List is here: https://deckbox.org/sets/959140
Sideboard is strange nowadays because of 4 Leylines of the Void. That's just my personal fear of faster combo decks, abusing graveyard. I want to smash them with uncounterable hate and protect it until I safely can go off. Normal people should replace them with 2 Cages and two instants for Wishes or, I think, even 2 "Plan B cards", Pack Rats as an example, and two instants.
European meta become more and more flooded with Miracles, so one of Boseiju moved into main.

One of the strongest Miracle players in Russia, Alexander Kilyuk, advises to play red Blasts to win Miracles. I see the point: we should break Counterbalance, and to do it we only need one REB - if opponent counters it with top, he will have no 3-mana spell on topdeck to get our key spells. That leads me to the thoughts if we can squeeze third color into the deck.

And if we can - do we really need red? We can go green and casts Decays on our opponents heads.

[bodea1981]

Thank you) List is here: https://deckbox.org/sets/959140
Sideboard is strange nowadays because of 4 Leylines of the Void. That's just my personal fear of faster combo decks, abusing graveyard. I want to smash them with uncounterable hate and protect it until I safely can go off. Normal people should replace them with 2 Cages and two instants for Wishes or, I think, even 2 "Plan B cards", Pack Rats as an example, and two instants.
European meta become more and more flooded with Miracles, so one of Boseiju moved into main.

One of the strongest Miracle players in Russia, Alexander Kilyuk, advises to play red Blasts to win Miracles. I see the point: we should break Counterbalance, and to do it we only need one REB - if opponent counters it with top, he will have no 3-mana spell on topdeck to get our key spells. That leads me to the thoughts if we can squeeze third color into the deck.

And if we can - do we really need red? We can go green and casts Decays on our opponents heads.

Thats awesome... thanks again.....I play one boseiju main.... and i honestly think thats enough against miracles since most lists dont play wastelands.... I am a fan of cages cause of the utility against elves, dredge and reanimator... it seems miracles is one of the biggests decks here in the states now too... But I feel we have a good match up if we play well already... echoing truth, wipe away, trickbind or rushing river seem like they are good enough against miracles. The Death and taxes match just seems miserable and so does reanimator since we dont have that much to battle them with.... discard is pretty bad against them unless they have all big creatures in hand.

Im gonna build a list and and test it for a bit and see if i like the results. Also how do you like 18 lands??? I run 19 and thats been good... i feel really comfortable with 19 lands.

I would luv to add green as get abrupt decays... wishing for an abupt decay seems gross and improves our match against esper thopter too.

3 thoughtseize and 3 therapy.... thats pretty brutal.... but i feel like no preordain is not right.... its so good.... better than probe i think but I understand the need for probe.... well im off to brewing and ill be using your deck as the base.... thanks again.

[Dziga Murnau]

Thats awesome... thanks again.....I play one boseiju main.... and i honestly think thats enough against miracles since most lists dont play wastelands.... I am a fan of cages cause of the utility against elves, dredge and reanimator... it seems miracles is one of the biggests decks here in the states now too... But I feel we have a good match up if we play well already... echoing truth, wipe away, trickbind or rushing river seem like they are good enough against miracles. The Death and taxes match just seems miserable and so does reanimator since we dont have that much to battle them with.... discard is pretty bad against them unless they have all big creatures in hand.

Im gonna build a list and and test it for a bit and see if i like the results. Also how do you like 18 lands??? I run 19 and thats been good... i feel really comfortable with 19 lands.

I would luv to add green as get abrupt decays... wishing for an abupt decay seems gross and improves our match against esper thopter too.

3 thoughtseize and 3 therapy.... thats pretty brutal.... but i feel like no preordain is not right.... its so good.... better than probe i think but I understand the need for probe.... well im off to brewing and ill be using your deck as the base.... thanks again.

18 lands because of Probes - without them we need to go up to 19. Also, probes let us be less reliant on mana cantrips. Now I prefer to look at Preordain slots as tutor slots - instead of pretty efficient cantrip spells I've got overcosted ones which give me exactly what I want: Intuition for anything, LDV for anything, 4th Wish for anything beyond combo pieces and second Emrakul for, well, Emrakul (lol).
Maybe I am too vintage, but directly tutoring cards is better than digging for them. Legacy players just do not agree with me by some strange occasion.

[famdoola]

18 lands because of Probes - without them we need to go up to 19. Also, probes let us be less reliant on mana cantrips. Now I prefer to look at Preordain slots as tutor slots - instead of pretty efficient cantrip spells I've got overcosted ones which give me exactly what I want: Intuition for anything, LDV for anything, 4th Wish for anything beyond combo pieces and second Emrakul for, well, Emrakul (lol).
Maybe I am too vintage, but directly tutoring cards is better than digging for them. Legacy players just do not agree with me by some strange occasion.


I played type 1 or rather vintage years ago when i was first starting to learn the game, and this was a huge thing i had learned and is troublesome with legacy at times which is why i have been testing, and honestly loving Merchant Scroll > Impulse.

Its either been Countered every time i casted it, or resolved and i got my DTT or Wish to go off, other times i have scrolled for a flusterstorm or FOW, to have the backup to get SnT to Omni to Emrakul.

Impulse just feels so goddamn weak now.

[Matsaya]

The question is not tutor vs digging, but ritual vs instant.

Usually people play intuition only for the ability to win on instant speed : wish on Firemind foresight, FF on wish + intuition + brainstorm, intuition + brainstorm : digg to find a high CCM and ptu it on the top of the library, wish on release the ants -> win.

These may look a bit complicated, but it is essential to win trough oblivion ring put in play with show and tell (you win with the trigger of O-ring on the stack).


I think that everybody agree that impulse is not a good card, but it is the best CCM 2 blue instant to search with FF and thus a necessary evil. (some people will argue that Lim dul vault is better)

If you don't want to win at instant speed, it is probably better to play neither intuition, nor merchant scroll, nor FF.

[kkkant]

Hey! Im glad to say i just scored top8 (4-1-1) at a local tournament (40 people) with my 4 petals list. Sadly i lost aggainst UG infect which was faster on g1, and on g3 answered my intuition for S&T with surgical - fow - daze :(

Heres the list:
Lands (17)
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Island
8 Fetchlands (i try to use all the blue ones so i can mislead my opponents as much as i can)
2 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors

Sorceries:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Show and Tell

Instants:
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Cunning Wish
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Intuition
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm

Artifacts:
4 Lotus Petal

Enchantments:
4 Omniscience

Creatures:
1 Emrakul

Sideboard:
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rushing River
1 Boseiju
1 Intuition
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Noxious Revival
1 Misdirection (a lot of bug in my meta)
1 Flusterstorm
1 Stifle
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants
1 Eladamri's Call
2 Grafdigger's Cage

I can only speak good for petals, MD intuition and Lim duls. I just loved this list. In fact, the only matches i lost were by mistakes of my own.
I think the deck can afford the card disadvantage of the petals (because of the DTT's) on favor of the incredible speed they give you (not only being able to go off on T1, T2 with a flusterstorm protection, but also playing consistenly t2's DTT).

[pandaman]

Hard luck, kkkant. You only have one Intuition (for Foresight usually) and the one time you use it you end up on the losing end of such a combination of cards. I'd say you made the correct play because it seems you could protect your Intuition from one counter. If you made that play every time you had Intuition in hand and could win with SnT next turn you'd definitely have positive EV. So don't get too down! Good finish!

[KO Bossy]

Hello everyone.

I've been watching some videos online and came across a primer for this deck. I am really digging it. I don't have any Legacy deck at all and recently learned that my LGS is starting to hold Legacy tournaments once a week. I figure this might be a good time to dive in and am thinking this deck might be the one for me.

I was wondering if anyone had any advice or suggestions about the core package. I can't really afford FoWs right now, but it seems that I can replace them maybe with something else for the time being. Really, the absolute must have cards seem to be 4 Show and Tell, 4 Omniscience, 3-4 Cunning Wish and at least 1 Emrakul. So if these are the essentials, I can work my way up to the more expensive stuff over time, and I at least have something to play. Am I correct in this analysis?

Eventually, this is what I want my deck to look like. I would love some criticism.


Lands

City of Traitors x3
Flooded Strand x3
Polluted Delta x2
Misty Rainforest x2
Boseiju, Who Shelters All x1
Island x8



Creatures

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn x2


Spells

Show and Tell x4
Omniscience x4
Cunning Wish x4
Brainstorm x4
Ponder x4
Preordain x4
Force of Will x4
Gitaxian Probe x4
Dig Through Time x3
Pact of Negation x2
Enter the Infinite x1
Lim-Dul's Vault x1



Sideboard

Dig Through Time x1
Boseiju, Who Shelters All x1
Grafdigger's Cage x2
Wipe Away x1
Flusterstorm x1
Release the Ants x1
Firemind's Foresight x1
Slaughter Pact x1
Intuition x1
Eladamri's Call x1
Surgical Extraction x1
Rushing River x1
Impulse x1
Trickbind x1



I've read through most of this thread for ideas. Seems pretty self explanatory. The single EtI is just as a back up for the Emrakuls. In case they get stuck at the bottom of the deck, I have an alternate card to clash with for RtA. LDV seems really useful. I know there's some disagreement between that and Impulse, but here's the way I look at it. Ultimately, we have to dig through the deck to find our combo. SaT, Omniscience, CW for RtA, that's the combo. Or SaT Emrakul, or SaT, Omniscience, Emrakul. With RtA, we have to set up our library for a high mana card for clashing. DTT let's us dig really deep, but we can't stack the deck. Brainstorm let's us dig and put back. Preordain let's us take a look, and we can draw a card, allowing us to set up things if Emrakul is in the top 2. Ponder let's us look as well, and also reshuffle if needed, then draw. LDV just let's us straight up filter to the bottom until we find what we need, then stack our next 5 cards. So we dig through until we find Emrakul or EtI (for those that run it), put it on top, CW for RtA and we're off to the races. It seems a really useful digging tool. After resolving FF, I'd grab this as the two mana card over Impulse, personally.

Anyway, if anyone has suggestions on card layout for my proposed deck, please let me know. I'd prefer to get the right cards the first time instead of the wrong ones.

[Cave]

LDV seems really useful. I know there's some disagreement between that and Impulse, but here's the way I look at it. Ultimately, we have to dig through the deck to find our combo. SaT, Omniscience, CW for RtA, that's the combo. Or SaT Emrakul, or SaT, Omniscience, Emrakul. With RtA, we have to set up our library for a high mana card for clashing. DTT let's us dig really deep, but we can't stack the deck. Brainstorm let's us dig and put back. Preordain let's us take a look, and we can draw a card, allowing us to set up things if Emrakul is in the top 2. Ponder let's us look as well, and also reshuffle if needed, then draw. LDV just let's us straight up filter to the bottom until we find what we need, then stack our next 5 cards. So we dig through until we find Emrakul or EtI (for those that run it), put it on top, CW for RtA and we're off to the races. It seems a really useful digging tool. After resolving FF, I'd grab this as the two mana card over Impulse, personally.

The disagreement about LDV vs Impulse is real. However, there should be no disagreement in the fact that impulse is stricly better than Lim-Dûl's Vault in a monoblue list. The deck already has a decently unfair amount of cards you can only play under very specific circumstances (DTT's, Omniscience, Emrakul, C.Wishes most in most matches and 2-3x sideboard slots).
Why would it be worth, to add further variance and unstability to the deck by adding a 2CMC vampiric tutor? And as good as it can get, a tutor that is unplayable unless you already dropped the combo (so you pretty much won anyways)!

Trust me, you'd better run impulse for consistency or spare money to buy 'dem Seas.

However, I ask you to go back 2-3 pages and read my posts about the deck. At this very specific point of my thought process and testing, I (and many with me) am not totally convinced anymore of the supreme necessity of the RtA finisher. You can just attack with Emrakul 99,9% of the time, and this pretty much invalidates your necessity to have an offcolor LDV in a blue list.

[KO Bossy]

The disagreement about LDV vs Impulse is real. However, there should be no disagreement in the fact that impulse is stricly better than Lim-Dûl's Vault in a monoblue list. The deck already has a decently unfair amount of cards you can only play under very specific circumstances (DTT's, Omniscience, Emrakul, C.Wishes most in most matches and 2-3x sideboard slots).
Why would it be worth, to add further variance and unstability to the deck by adding a 2CMC vampiric tutor? And as good as it can get, a tutor that is unplayable unless you already dropped the combo (so you pretty much won anyways)!

Trust me, you'd better run impulse for consistency or spare money to buy 'dem Seas.

However, I ask you to go back 2-3 pages and read my posts about the deck. At this very specific point of my thought process and testing, I (and many with me) am not totally convinced anymore of the supreme necessity of the RtA finisher. You can just attack with Emrakul 99,9% of the time, and this pretty much invalidates your necessity to have an offcolor LDV in a blue list.

Well I figured I'd be playing LDV after Omniscience hit the table anyway, so the black mana in the cost wouldn't be an issue. By looks alone, it seems strong. Again, haven't tested it since I don't have the deck. However, it seems that I can dig right to the bottom of my deck, if need be, to find what I need and not mill myself (since the cards go to the bottom of the library). Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain and DTT all dig as well, but DTT doesn't allow cards to be put back on top, and the other 3 don't dig that far.

But you make a good point-unless Omniscience is in play via SaT, its a dead card. Either way, both are really inexpensive, so I can pick up both, test them and see how well they work.

As for RtA vs Emrakul, if you're in the clear to combo off, Emrakul is pretty much a winner, yes. However, there are times when an opponent will have over 15 life and you can't finish them in 1 turn. Once the Annihilator 6 hits, its pretty much game over from there, but its not always a 100% win. Against decks like Storm or some other crazy, one turn combo, that turn could be the difference between a win and loss. RtA, if you combo off with that, that's a win that turn.

Not to mention, if you're just going to forgo the RtA finish, why have Omniscience at all? Just SaT Emrakul in and do it that way.

RtA and Emrakul are alternate finishers. I guess that's why the deck is so good. You can win with one or the other. What if an opponent has Meddling Mage naming Emrakul? Without RtA, that's a loss. You can counter it, but there's probably going to be more than 1. You can CW for Wipe Away, but since Mage would only be going back to our opponent's hand, it'll just get cast again. If you counter it, you could wish for Surgical Extraction and exile all of them, I guess, but that leaves you open to other threats that Extraction won't be able to answer.

Either way, I do want to stick to a mono blue list. Maybe some day I can expand into something else, but Underground Seas, Volcanic Islands and company...outta my price range. Even FoW is stretching it, but I can make 100 or so bucks per copy work. 250-300 for one land...doesn't work right now. Plus, with FoW, while its pretty important for T0 countering, I can at least replace it with Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm or something to tide me over. Without dual lands, splashing a color isn't going to work out to well. I could just fetch basics, but that would slow me down way too much.

[Dziga Murnau]

Well I figured I'd be playing LDV after Omniscience hit the table anyway, so the black mana in the cost wouldn't be an issue. By looks alone, it seems strong. Again, haven't tested it since I don't have the deck. However, it seems that I can dig right to the bottom of my deck, if need be, to find what I need and not mill myself (since the cards go to the bottom of the library). Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain and DTT all dig as well, but DTT doesn't allow cards to be put back on top, and the other 3 don't dig that far.

But you make a good point-unless Omniscience is in play via SaT, its a dead card. Either way, both are really inexpensive, so I can pick up both, test them and see how well they work.

As for RtA vs Emrakul, if you're in the clear to combo off, Emrakul is pretty much a winner, yes. However, there are times when an opponent will have over 15 life and you can't finish them in 1 turn. Once the Annihilator 6 hits, its pretty much game over from there, but its not always a 100% win. Against decks like Storm or some other crazy, one turn combo, that turn could be the difference between a win and loss. RtA, if you combo off with that, that's a win that turn.

Not to mention, if you're just going to forgo the RtA finish, why have Omniscience at all? Just SaT Emrakul in and do it that way.

RtA and Emrakul are alternate finishers. I guess that's why the deck is so good. You can win with one or the other. What if an opponent has Meddling Mage naming Emrakul? Without RtA, that's a loss. You can counter it, but there's probably going to be more than 1. You can CW for Wipe Away, but since Mage would only be going back to our opponent's hand, it'll just get cast again. If you counter it, you could wish for Surgical Extraction and exile all of them, I guess, but that leaves you open to other threats that Extraction won't be able to answer.

Either way, I do want to stick to a mono blue list. Maybe some day I can expand into something else, but Underground Seas, Volcanic Islands and company...outta my price range. Even FoW is stretching it, but I can make 100 or so bucks per copy work. 250-300 for one land...doesn't work right now. Plus, with FoW, while its pretty important for T0 countering, I can at least replace it with Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm or something to tide me over. Without dual lands, splashing a color isn't going to work out to well. I could just fetch basics, but that would slow me down way too much.
Really, read last like 20 pages of the thread - there are answers to your questions spreaded all around, and many tips and tricks about deck machanics you just haven't noticed yet.
For example, remember that strong winning position (in vacuum, though, not against hatebears or Miracles) is three cards in hand - SnT+Omni+third business spell, ideally Wish (with weak winning position being SnT+Emrakul). LDV, the card, which I strongly protect as a key part of FF trios, is not a business spell in this case, as it doesn't put a spell in your hand. There's no more embarassing situation for OmniPlayer, than put the mighty enchantment and... pass the turn with an empty hand.
So LDV is better looked at as second turn counter bait and second turn Vampiric for combo pieces. In FF trio it is needed when you are afraid of gravehate (no Intuition shenanigans) AND need to deal with anti-Omni thing on the stack (so the Wish is busy).

Can I give you some exersise?) Find a way, how can you attack with Emrakul 3-4 times in a row without passing the turn to an opponent with only one Emrakul maindeck and what good cards you should add to the list to make it possible)

[Cave]

Well I figured I'd be playing LDV after Omniscience hit the table anyway, so the black mana in the cost wouldn't be an issue. By looks alone, it seems strong. Again, haven't tested it since I don't have the deck. However, it seems that I can dig right to the bottom of my deck, if need be, to find what I need and not mill myself (since the cards go to the bottom of the library). Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain and DTT all dig as well, but DTT doesn't allow cards to be put back on top, and the other 3 don't dig that far.

But you make a good point-unless Omniscience is in play via SaT, its a dead card. Either way, both are really inexpensive, so I can pick up both, test them and see how well they work.

When you drop the Omnibomb the deck has plenty of resource to dig through itself (:laugh:) until you find a finisher. LDV is adding little to no improvement to the deck in that context.
You need to be UB to really exploit that card (= cast it PRE-COMBO). If I were you, i'd switch LDV with a intuition in the maindeck, because you can Intu on Emrakul/EtI/Wish and win anyways.


As for RtA vs Emrakul, if you're in the clear to combo off, Emrakul is pretty much a winner, yes. However, there are times when an opponent will have over 15 life and you can't finish them in 1 turn. Once the Annihilator 6 hits, its pretty much game over from there, but its not always a 100% win. Against decks like Storm or some other crazy, one turn combo, that turn could be the difference between a win and loss. RtA, if you combo off with that, that's a win that turn.

There are literally infinite ways to cheat emrakul in and out of play multiple times in a turn (one is Curfew and another is Cabal Therapy, for example) and exploit its uber come-into-play-trigger.
You can set up the deck to mathematically win the game even if you go the Emrakul route, by taking multiple turns in a row.


Not to mention, if you're just going to forgo the RtA finish, why have Omniscience at all? Just SaT Emrakul in and do it that way.

1. No, because I love extra turns.
2 No, because things like Oblivion Ring exist. Omniscience is better because you can C.Wish and Trickbind stuff. Our deck is not designed to blindly throw Emrakul onto the battlefield. You can do that against certain decks, but not in every matchup.




RtA and Emrakul are alternate finishers. I guess that's why the deck is so good. You can win with one or the other. What if an opponent has Meddling Mage naming Emrakul? Without RtA, that's a loss. You can counter it, but there's probably going to be more than 1. You can CW for Wipe Away, but since Mage would only be going back to our opponent's hand, it'll just get cast again. If you counter it, you could wish for Surgical Extraction and exile all of them, I guess, but that leaves you open to other threats that Extraction won't be able to answer.

Meddling mage on Emrakul will never ever happen unless they have a first Meddlig Mage on SaT. And even then, the correct play is Meddling Mage#2 naming Cunning Wish.


Either way, I do want to stick to a mono blue list. Maybe some day I can expand into something else, but Underground Seas, Volcanic Islands and company...outta my price range. Even FoW is stretching it, but I can make 100 or so bucks per copy work. 250-300 for one land...doesn't work right now. Plus, with FoW, while its pretty important for T0 countering, I can at least replace it with Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm or something to tide me over. Without dual lands, splashing a color isn't going to work out to well. I could just fetch basics, but that would slow me down way too much.

You can go for Ravnica Shocklands: they cost only 2 HP (you can afford that: i play with 1 City and 2 Ancient Tombs*), they are fetchable, and you don't have to pay a lot for them.
U/R and U/B Shocklands are called Watery Grave and Steam Vents :laugh:

*I prefer not to lose random lands while attempting to win.

[Dziga Murnau]

Cave, you spoiled my exersise --_--

[Matsaya]

Can I give you some exersise?) Find a way, how can you attack with Emrakul 3-4 times in a row without passing the turn to an opponent with only one Emrakul maindeck and what good cards you should add to the list to make it possible)

Could you please provide the solution.

So far, I found some solutions but none was really good.
The problem I want to solve is the following :

Only 3 card in hand : show + omni + come other card. Find a way to attack with emrakul 3-4 times in a row without passing the turn to an opponent with only one Emrakul maindeck.
If the third card is enter the infinite, the solution is pretty easy. But otherwise, I don't see how it is possible. Sure, we can always chain draw spells and hope to find something good, but I would prefer a solution with no luck involved.

[Dziga Murnau]

Could you please provide the solution.

So far, I found some solutions but none was really good.
The problem I want to solve is the following :

If the third card is enter the infinite, the solution is pretty easy. But otherwise, I don't see how it is possible. Sure, we can always chain draw spells and hope to find something good, but I would prefer a solution with no luck involved.
My riddle was about Cabal Therapies and their ability to kill Emrakul and shuffle him into library so we can find him again and cast 3 more times (if we play 3 Therapies).

You're riddle is harder (no luck term), but is solvable, if we play 1 EtI, 3 Cabal Therapies and 1 Intuition main (which is 1 EtI away from the main I play).
Third card is Cunning Wish. The chain is:
1.Wish -> Firemind's Foresight
2. FF -> Brainstorm, LDV, Intuition
3. Intuiton -> Emrakul
4. ! in responce to shuffling ! LDV -> EtI, Brainstorm -> draw EtI then shuffle all your grave, including resolved FF, Intuition, LDV and BS
5. EtI -> draw everything, put something on top, cast Emrakul, get a turn
6. Draw last card, attack, cast Therapy #1, flashback Therapy #1 with Emrakul, shuffle Emrakul and EtI, draw EtI with Ponder.
7. Repeat step 5 as many times as many Therapies there were in your main. As I play 3, it is 4 attacks with Emri.

[Matsaya]

Ok thank you.

But then you need to play 1 EtI, 3 Cabal Therapies, 1 Intuition and 1 LDV main. But no RtA in the side.

Actually I play the mono blue version with 1 RtA and 1 elamdari call in the side and 1 Split Decision main (nearly dead before combo, but sometimes you can copy an opponent counter).

I don't like to play a dead card before combo, but then with wish in hand you may win at instant speed with oblivion ring trigger on the stack. I should confess that I really like this line of play. Indeed, one big caveat of the solution wish -> trickbind is that you used a valuable card and thus it is possible you don't have anything more in hand to kill your opponent.

[Karhumies]

By looks alone, it seems strong. Again, haven't tested it since I don't have the deck.

That's why free online deck editors with goldfishing capabilities exist, e.g. tappedout.net.

Allows you to test first, and then discuss about the test results instead of asking questions without any test experience.

[Dziga Murnau]

Ok thank you.

But then you need to play 1 EtI, 3 Cabal Therapies, 1 Intuition and 1 LDV main. But no RtA in the side.

Actually I play the mono blue version with 1 RtA and 1 elamdari call in the side and 1 Split Decision main (nearly dead before combo, but sometimes you can copy an opponent counter).

I don't like to play a dead card before combo, but then with wish in hand you may win at instant speed with oblivion ring trigger on the stack. I should confess that I really like this line of play. Indeed, one big caveat of the solution wish -> trickbind is that you used a valuable card and thus it is possible you don't have anything more in hand to kill your opponent.
Every first Wish after Omni is always Wish -> FF, because it's literally Wish -> Wish + Brainstorm + what you put in 2cc slot. And only after it second Wish goes for what you need.

RtA and EC are just winmores with the mighty FF. I stiil can't figure situations when you have to win through them because you cannot make it with FF.

[Baum]

If you don't run Therapies to loop Emrakul, you need RtA against Decks that flood the board with 7+ permanents and kill you on the backswing. EC is nice against Burn with an Eidolon in play because S&T, Wish, EC, Emrakul only costs 6 life. It also helps against any deck with Bolt if you are too low on life to safely LDV for Emrakul. It really depends in how your maindeck looks like.

[Karhumies]

If you don't run Therapies to loop Emrakul, you need RtA against Decks that flood the board with 7+ permanents and kill you on the backswing. EC is nice against Burn with an Eidolon in play because S&T, Wish, EC, Emrakul only costs 6 life. It also helps against any deck with Bolt if you are too low on life to safely LDV for Emrakul. It really depends in how your maindeck looks like.

This.

In particular, D&T with Thalia on the board makes it difficult to afford long storming / cantrip chains. In this scenario, Wish->EC->Emrakul can be the most profitable line of play.

Problem is, by the time you get to swing with Emrakul via FF route, chances are they have enough permanents for a lethal backswing.

[Karhumies]

Emrakul attacks, trigger on the stack
Opponent leads off with High Tide
...this is one of those moments when RtA seems like a nice card to have in the 75. "No, I kill YOU first" and all that jazz.

[Cave]

Emrakul attacks, trigger on the stack
Opponent leads off with High Tide
...this is one of those moments when RtA seems like a nice card to have in the 75. "No, I kill YOU first" and all that jazz.

I am sorry, but seriously, no. :laugh:

1. Solidarity is literally 0,1% of the metagame. I mean, ANY metagame.
2. Even then, Solidarity, one and only win condition is brain freeze. Just in case you didn't notice, most lists run 2 emrakul now so it's really really difficult to get your deck milled.
3. Even then, if you run UB you can patiently wait for them to cast their huge Brain Freeze, then sac Emrakul to Therapy. It is really rare that they are also able to force you to draw before your next turn.
4. That's why they wouldn't usually start their combo with Emrakul trigger on the stack. They normally combo you out during your upkeep to be able to use Reset and force you to draw without using any spell (your turn draw).
5. Even then, if Emrakul is on the battlefield and you run only 1 emrakul so you can get milled, chances are Omniscience is on the battlefield as well. And this deck also happens to pack Trickbind in the sideboard.
Against Solidarity, Trickbind practically reads "1U, Instant, Split Second: You cannot lose this game". If you really fear solidarity, you can scout it with probe, and rush your first cunning wish to get trickbind.

I don't seriously think that Solidarity existing is a valid reason for this deck to run Release the Ants finisher.

Oh btw, for whoever wondering how to make multiple turns with emrakul in UB lists, i made a post 2 pages ago.
Monoblue lists can just pack 1x Curfew, that is also a decent sidein option.

[Mackan]

I am sorry, but seriously, no. :laugh:

1. Solidarity is literally 0,1% of the metagame. I mean, ANY metagame.
2. Even then, Solidarity, one and only win condition is brain freeze. Just in case you didn't notice, most lists run 2 emrakul now so it's really really difficult to get your deck milled.
3. Even then, if you run UB you can patiently wait for them to cast their huge Brain Freeze, then sac Emrakul to Therapy. It is really rare that they are also able to force you to draw before your next turn.
4. That's why they wouldn't usually start their combo with Emrakul trigger on the stack. They normally combo you out during your upkeep to be able to use Reset and force you to draw without using any spell (your turn draw).
5. Even then, if Emrakul is on the battlefield and you run only 1 emrakul so you can get milled, chances are Omniscience is on the battlefield as well. And this deck also happens to pack Trickbind in the sideboard.
Against Solidarity, Trickbind practically reads "1U, Instant, Split Second: You cannot lose this game". If you really fear solidarity, you can scout it with probe, and rush your first cunning wish to get trickbind.

I don't seriously think that Solidarity existing is a valid reason for this deck to run Release the Ants finisher.

Oh btw, for whoever wondering how to make multiple turns with emrakul in UB lists, i made a post 2 pages ago.
Monoblue lists can just pack 1x Curfew, that is also a decent sidein option.

It is very likely the solidarity player will go off in response to show and tell and not the annihilator 6 trigger so the example seems bad. Even if this is the case a decent solidarity player would likely play high tide during the upkeep anyways. Reset can't be played at this point (which you falsly stated above) but trying to make high tide resolve is crucial and not giving the opponent a chance to draw a counter is often correct. Now IF the pretty bad example with high tide in response to Annihilator 6 occur it is FALSE that solidarity can't win.

Either he wishes for surgical extraction with the emrakul-shuffle trigger on the stack OR he Blue sun's zenith for the rest.

Trickbind does very little as Solidarity can use Snapcaster Mage to recast Brain Freeze.

I still agree that using Solidarity as an example for anything is pretty pointless as you are right that it's not a real deck (sadly). I still want to make sure nobody thinks your post is correct.

[Baum]

Why would you want to have Trickbind in your board and cut RtA? If you run RtA side and LDV main, you can kill in response to any triggered stuff that gets thrown into the S&T. And you get the non Emrakul win for all other corner cases.

Also, I don't see how Curfew is a reasonable sideboard option. Decks that run hatebears tend to run other creatures as well.

[Karhumies]

FWIW, I attempted to showcase a scenario where you want to go off via RtA in response to the opponent winning the game. Without running RtA in the SB, this generic line of play is not possible.

Solidarity was just the first example that came across my mind while writing the previous post. Probably because Solidarity is the #1 deck utilizing the go off in response strategy anyways which subconsciously connected the dots in my head. I am sure someone can think of a better example (Attack / Tendrils for lethal? Sneaky Show MU, instant combo off of opposing SnT?)

[Karhumies]

It is very likely the solidarity player will go off in response to show and tell and not the annihilator 6 trigger so the example seems bad.
...
I still agree that using Solidarity as an example for anything is pretty pointless as you are right that it's not a real deck (sadly). I still want to make sure nobody thinks your post is correct.
In 2010 in a big tourney, I've had a Solidarity player gladly land an extra Island off my SnT (G2 with Oozing, T2 SnT into Emrakul), let me pass the turn to them to get yet another land drop, then go off in response to Annihilator trigger with Blue Sun's Zenith, forcing me to draw myself to death.

...and yes, it is a pretty far-fetched scenario. I challenge you to think of a better one. :p

[Matsaya]

Every first Wish after Omni is always Wish -> FF, because it's literally Wish -> Wish + Brainstorm + what you put in 2cc slot. And only after it second Wish goes for what you need.
.

I agree. But my problem is that if you want to answer the trigger of an o-ring you use the second wish for trickbind and all you have in hand is brainstorm + a 2cc card. In monoblue version this usually means brainstorm + impulse.
In that case you have to hope to find something good (other cantrips are ok) in the top 7 cards.

[Cave]

It is very likely the solidarity player will go off in response to show and tell and not the annihilator 6 trigger so the example seems bad. Even if this is the case a decent solidarity player would likely play high tide during the upkeep anyways. Reset can't be played at this point (which you falsly stated above) but trying to make high tide resolve is crucial and not giving the opponent a chance to draw a counter is often correct. Now IF the pretty bad example with high tide in response to Annihilator 6 occur it is FALSE that solidarity can't win.

Either he wishes for surgical extraction with the emrakul-shuffle trigger on the stack OR he Blue sun's zenith for the rest.

Trickbind does very little as Solidarity can use Snapcaster Mage to recast Brain Freeze.

I still agree that using Solidarity as an example for anything is pretty pointless as you are right that it's not a real deck (sadly). I still want to make sure nobody thinks your post is correct.

My post is correct overall. My only mistake was believing Reset can be used only during upkeep and not only after; and that mistake occurred because it's been like one year and a half since i saw someone playing that deck. LOL
Solidarity is a deck that is well known for failing to combo on its own much more often than wanted.
Now you are trying to say it can win by freeze+recast freeze with snapcaster to overcome trickbind+extract emrakul+draw spell through our permission? Yes it can.
Chances are it will most likely not happen though.
And by the way, if it can win through all the struggles our deck puts into its way NATURALLY and effortlessly (i.e. emrakul just sitting in the deck, we don't have to do anything and it already hinders them a bit), then wishing for RtA is not a valid solution.
Solidarity is not a reason for this deck to pack RtA, I seriously have to advocate for that.
We have many many many better options.

@Kharumies i'm not mad at you for any reason, you don't have to apologize. It's just that I strongly disagree with your point there :laugh:
I know it can happen as it did to you. However, OmniTell is a way different deck from SnS. 90% of the time if you have emrakul in play, you have taken an extra turn and dug through most of your deck. So i guess it's really no problem. As Mackan correctly states, their best options is going off in response to SnT, but we have plenty of ways to handle that.

@Baum: You need trickbind. Standard sidein plan for most aggro-ish decks is EtB-Exile-Permanent-effects.
However, Release the Ants is just not necessary. If they can win instant speed, they will do it in response to SnT.
If you pack curfew, you get the same "i win 100%" effect, you can bounce something for annihilator 12+1, and you get a *decent* side-in option. While it's not as good as Rushing River or Wipe Away, at least it *does* something instead of sitting there like RtA just because you want to be cool and finish the game with a spell.

[Baum]

It you run LDV you can simply kill them with Wish > Foresight > BS/LDV/Wish > RtA at instant speed in response to their exile trigger. So you don't need a Stifle effect in your board. That's what I tried to point out.

[Chronatog]

It's surprising to see so many posts about Black-Blue OmniTell in the thread dedicated to Mono Blue deck ("MonoU OmniTell"). Anyway. Getting back to MonoU.

Did anyone use Ensnare and/or Mindbreak Trap in SB as targets for Cunning Wish against fast decks?

For example, Elves can be fast and very nasty, and if we don't have any hard counters when they go off (e.g. [cads]Force of Will[/cards]) we are finished. So in situation when we have three mana available, but no counters in hand, we either can a) try to find Force of Will, or b) wish for some "free" spell from SB, stop them, and go off ourselves next turn.


In (a) we potentially can dig as deeply as 7 cards - 4 with Impulse and 3 more with Brainstorm (assuming that we can cast only instants). However, there is still a chance that we don't find Force of Will. And most likely we will not have both Impulse and Branstorm, taking into account that typically there is only on Impulse in our deck. So realistically we will be able to operate with the top four cards (assuming two Brainstorms).

So (b) looks like a sure deal - wish for Mindmreak Trap to counter Natural Order or Craterhoof Behemoth, or for Esnare to tap all creatures. The last one can be tricky since we would cast it for an alternative cost and if we don't already have Show and Tell, Omniscience, and any sol land in our hand, we are finished. There is still a chance to top deck a sol land though, but very slim.

All this sound complicated, and ideally it would be much easier to card Intuition for three Force of Wills, but I like to have optionality in case we have only Cunning Wish.

I never tried Ensnare or Mindbreak Trap for the situation described above so if you have some thoughts or practical observation, please share.

[Mackan]

It's surprising to see so many posts about Black-Blue OmniTell in the thread dedicated to Mono Blue deck ("MonoU OmniTell"). Anyway. Getting back to MonoU.

Did anyone use Ensnare and/or Mindbreak Trap in SB as targets for Cunning Wish against fast decks?

For example, Elves can be fast and very nasty, and if we don't have any hard counters when they go off (e.g. [cads]Force of Will[/cards]) we are finished. So in situation when we have three mana available, but no counters in hand, we either can a) try to find Force of Will, or b) wish for some "free" spell from SB, stop them, and go off ourselves next turn.


In (a) we potentially can dig as deeply as 7 cards - 4 with Impulse and 3 more with Brainstorm (assuming that we can cast only instants). However, there is still a chance that we don't find Force of Will. And most likely we will not have both Impulse and Branstorm, taking into account that typically there is only on Impulse in our deck. So realistically we will be able to operate with the top four cards (assuming two Brainstorms).

So (b) looks like a sure deal - wish for Mindmreak Trap to counter Natural Order or Craterhoof Behemoth, or for Esnare to tap all creatures. The last one can be tricky since we would cast it for an alternative cost and if we don't already have Show and Tell, Omniscience, and any sol land in our hand, we are finished. There is still a chance to top deck a sol land though, but very slim.

All this sound complicated, and ideally it would be much easier to card Intuition for three Force of Wills, but I like to have optionality in case we have only Cunning Wish.

I never tried Ensnare or Mindbreak Trap for the situation described above so if you have some thoughts or practical observation, please share.

Omnishow is about as fast as elves so using sideboard slots for a goldfish scenario when you need a wish AND can go off the next turn is likely not worth it. If elves is a big problem in your local meta I would play grafdigger's cage in this slot and use my wishes to set up for the combo instead. Cage is also a great card va dredge and reanimator, both beeing ok choices in the current meta.

[Arksz]

So quick question
My opponent has out a Thalia and I have a resolved omniscience. I want to cast dig through time for free. Can I exile 1 card to cast it for free or does the tax effect make me pay one mana?

It seems they changed the way delve works after the cards were released so I'm a bit unfamiliar with it.

[Karhumies]

@ Chronatog

In the 1 mana disruption slot, Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are the "big tournament currently expected legacy metagame" choices. However, if you feel that in your FLGS you absolutely want to hit creatures as well in a monoblue build, you can try going into "Old Fogey mode" and experiment with a Force Spike or two. If they play into it, that will buy you some time; if they play around it, that will also buy you some time.

Typically, our deck is much more interested in countering non-creatures though. But if you know there's Thalia, E.Canonist, Elf combo and Gaddock Teeg heading your way in masses that's an option.

[pandaman]

Force of Will + Flusterstorm main and Thoughtseize side will allow you to beat Elves. I haven't lost to it yet.

[Chronatog]

Omnishow is about as fast as elves so using sideboard slots for a goldfish scenario when you need a wish AND can go off the next turn is likely not worth it. If elves is a big problem in your local meta I would play grafdigger's cage in this slot and use my wishes to set up for the combo instead. Cage is also a great card va dredge and reanimator, both beeing ok choices in the current meta.
Grafdigger's Cage is a good option. Though, I am not sure that it is reasonable to have several of them in main deck. At least three of them if we want to use Intuition to find it. And if it is in SB, it is too late to wish for it in the first round because we first need to survive at least three turns to be able to cast it.

My intent is to add some cards to SB that would help to handle a variety of decks in the first round.

[Chronatog]

@ Chronatog
In the 1 mana disruption slot, Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are the "big tournament currently expected legacy metagame" choices. However, if you feel that in your FLGS you absolutely want to hit creatures as well in a monoblue build, you can try going into "Old Fogey mode" and experiment with a Force Spike or two. If they play into it, that will buy you some time; if they play around it, that will also buy you some time.

So far my experience with Elves tells me that most of the soft counters don't work well against them. Elves players know about Daze, Spell Pierce, and others, and have plenty of mana available. Flusterstorm is good for decks that play a lot of cheap spells and the most important later during their turn (Elves is a good example). However, they also know about Flusterstorm and may cast the most important spells/creatures during the first main phase to have both extra mana available and keep count of spells played low. Plus, Flusterstorm is pretty expensive and I am not sure that it adds much value to the deck for its $$$ price.



However, if you feel that in your FLGS you absolutely want to hit creatures as well in a monoblue build, you can try going into "Old Fogey mode" and experiment with a Force Spike or two. If they play into it, that will buy you some time; if they play around it, that will also buy you some time.

Typically, our deck is much more interested in countering non-creatures though. But if you know there's Thalia, E.Canonist, Elf combo and Gaddock Teeg heading your way in masses that's an option.
Personally, back then I liked Disrupt more than Force Spike. However, in this environment, I think, Spell Snare is more relevant for OmniTell than any other counters, except Force of Will. Most of our worst disruptions are creatures with cmc2 or some cards like Umezawa's Jitte. So Spell Snare feels all right except against Chalice of the Void.

[Chronatog]

Force of Will + Flusterstorm main and Thoughtseize side will allow you to beat Elves. I haven't lost to it yet.
I like the idea of splashing Black and adding some discard spells. However, just right now I am working on a MonoU version. It looks like it can play pretty well and just needs some SB adjustments.

[pandaman]

It does play well, admittedly. But your worst matchups are faster combo (Elves and Storm) and Reanimator. Elves is a DtB, Reanimator is seeing not insignificant play, and we all know from recent tournaments how deep Storm can go (in the hands of a strong pilot it is, in my opinion, the best deck in Legacy). The Delver/Stoneblade/BUG Control/Jund/Junk/D&T matchups aren't too bad for us. 4 Thoughtseize in the board, combined with your 4 FoW and Spell Pierces/Flusterstorm in the main deck, make it so that Storm/Reanimator/Elves really have to God-draw you to win. They are matchups you'll likely lose to if you don't have some cards in. Thoughtseize can also be used against Miracles effectively. And Black gives you Massacre for D&T and those pesky UWx decks and now BUG Control splashing W for Meddling Mage.

[KO Bossy]

OK so I've spent the afternoon doing some testing online.

Thoughts:

FF is such a god card for this deck its insane. Not a surprise but seeing it in action makes even more of an impact. As if people didn't know already, this should be Wish target #1.

I also like both RtA and Emrakul as win triggers off of Omniscience. Kind of a 1-2 punch. Finish off game 1 with Emrakul, then your opponent may assume that's the win con. Then throw them a curveball game 2 with RtA and they may not see it coming. Both work well, I think.

[lost_ronin_soul]

I have an omnitell list and have two questions to help me sideboard better. With a standard mono blue list, 1What is the best sideboard strategy against another mono blue list? 2. What is the basic sideboard strategy against a omnitell list running red splash for burning wish (yes, rare but meta game specific)?

[pinkfrosting]

I have an omnitell list and have two questions to help me sideboard better. With a standard mono blue list, 1What is the best sideboard strategy against another mono blue list? 2. What is the basic sideboard strategy against a omnitell list running red splash for burning wish (yes, rare but meta game specific)?

1. Generally I find in the mono U mirror that, when either you or the other player decide to put omniscience in play, that you want to end the stack with a C-wish for wipe away, then wipe away their omniscience. The power of split second in this type of stack war is crazy, and there's really nothing they can do about it. Let them burn their flusterstorms and defensive spells on your digs and cantrips, then wish away their Omni. If they cast a wish then you pretty much have to wish in response then try and defend it, if you suspect they're going for the same line. If you can probe them a turn or two before the Omni turn you can get enough info to know whether or not you can win the war. Also, if your opponent is inexperienced, they may even have more wishes/counters and lose if you go for it.

The average game might look something like this

Opponent casts show and tell
You both put down Omni
Opponent attempts to dig
You attempt to dig
Opponent attempts to brainstorm
You attempt to impulse
Opponent attempts to cunning wish
You attempt to cunning wish
Opponent attempts to force
You defend it with whatever countspells you have left
Wish resolves, wipe away their Omni

I actually also side 1 dream halls in my mono U list to break the symmetry in these types of matchups. It's great in mirror, vs reanimator, and vs miracles as well as any other fringe decks where the symmetry of show and tell can be dangerous (aluren, etc...)

2. The SB strategy against UR Omni is exactly the same, and even easier for us because they have fewer instants in their hand most of the time.

[Ogh!]

I actually also side 1 dream halls in my mono U list to break the symmetry in these types of matchups. It's great in mirror, vs reanimator, and vs miracles as well as any other fringe decks where the symmetry of show and tell can be dangerous (aluren, etc...)


I don't understand this point as Dream Halls allows your opponent to benefit from its effect as well. Would you please elaborate?

[Spam]

Cast defense Grid, cast Dream Halls and then cast your Omniscience or your single copy of Enter the Infinite for some funny wins. In the mirror, my plan is to basicly side out Show and tell and just wait for them to cast it; from there I try to bring more instants to the table.

[Lans89]

I don't understand this point as Dream Halls allows your opponent to benefit from its effect as well. Would you please elaborate?

See Dream Halls as Show and Tell number 5 in the mirror, not as 5th omni. So you play Omni after Dream Halls and win from there. Your opp is able to do some stuff, but you'll have more cards to cast with Omni.

[lost_ronin_soul]

1. Generally I find in the mono U mirror that, when either you or the other player decide to put omniscience in play, that you want to end the stack with a C-wish for wipe away, then wipe away their omniscience. The power of split second in this type of stack war is crazy, and there's really nothing they can do about it. Let them burn their flusterstorms and defensive spells on your digs and cantrips, then wish away their Omni. If they cast a wish then you pretty much have to wish in response then try and defend it, if you suspect they're going for the same line. If you can probe them a turn or two before the Omni turn you can get enough info to know whether or not you can win the war. Also, if your opponent is inexperienced, they may even have more wishes/counters and lose if you go for it.

Thanks for the fast reply. I been thinking about possibilty tackling that problem with cunning wish before going off. This way as soon as i have priority i can wipe away their omniscience. Is it better to hold cunning wish for the counter war of to go for cunning wish->wipe away at the end step of opponent's turn so you have the answer ready to go?

[Poron]

how does Dream Halls break any simmetry?

the only card that breaks consistently the simmetry is Gitaxian Probe, allowing you to see his hand and decide if you want to combo off or dig more

[Chronatog]

Cast defense Grid, cast Dream Halls and then cast your Omniscience or your single copy of Enter the Infinite for some funny wins. In the mirror, my plan is to basicly side out Show and tell and just wait for them to cast it; from there I try to bring more instants to the table.
And what if they do the same? (side out Show and Tell)

[pinkfrosting]

I don't understand this point as Dream Halls allows your opponent to benefit from its effect as well. Would you please elaborate?

You use dream halls to put omniscience into play. Your opponent can only cast instants at a cost of 2-for-1, while you will have access to your whole hand for free, assuming your omniscience resolves. It can backfire, but generally I find that if it does, my opponent uses most or all of their remaining cards trying to stop omniscience from resolving and won't have any gas on their turn. In this matchup it functions as another way to get omni into play, not as a wincon on it's own.

In other matchups like reanimator, it avoids awkward situations like giving them a griselbrand and 14 cards from our show and tell, or scooping to iona. In these matchups, the only card that matters the turn you cast halls is FoW, which already has halls effect embedded anyway.


And what if they do the same? (side out Show and Tell)

Then the race to 10 mana is on!

I generally keep in at least 2 show and tells personally in the mirror. If I probe my opponent and see that he clearly has less interactive instants than I do, I like to be able pull the trigger.

[Ogh!]

You use dream halls to put omniscience into play. Your opponent can only cast instants at a cost of 2-for-1, while you will have access to your whole hand for free, assuming your omniscience resolves. It can backfire, but generally I find that if it does, my opponent uses most or all of their remaining cards trying to stop omniscience from resolving and won't have any gas on their turn. In this matchup it functions as another way to get omni into play, not as a wincon on it's own.


I'm not convinced. You suggest using 3 cards (Dream Halls, pitch + Omniscience itself) plus 5 mana just to put Omniscience on the stack (!). From my experience (a lot of MTGO) you will very likely lose the (very likely) ensuing counter war with your remaining 4 vs. an opponent's 7, especially once you've turned on his Cunning Wishes (e.g. for Pyroblast in the case of the prevalent UR Omni) or Dig Through Times via Dream Halls. The mirror match is always about a gigantic fight about the stack and by casting Dream Halls and using it to put Omniscience on the stack you put yourself into a very disadvantageous position (mana-wise and card-wise).

[pinkfrosting]

I'm not convinced. You suggest using 3 cards (Dream Halls, pitch + Omniscience itself) plus 5 mana just to put Omniscience on the stack (!). From my experience (a lot of MTGO) you will very likely lose the (very likely) ensuing counter war with your remaining 4 vs. an opponent's 7, especially once you've turned on his Cunning Wishes (e.g. for Pyroblast in the case of the prevalent UR Omni) or Dig Through Times via Dream Halls. The mirror match is always about a gigantic fight about the stack and by casting Dream Halls and using it to put Omniscience on the stack you put yourself into a very disadvantageous position (mana-wise and card-wise).

This is probably generally true, and I shouldn't be quick to judge the efficacy of a card based on personal successes. I have resolved it twice in the mirror and both times it worked for me, but a sample size of 2 is not statistically significant.

The times that it did work, I had dig though time to add additional blue cards to my hand and win the ensuing stack war, and my opponents had too many sorcery speed cards/lands to outpower my smaller hand. But you are right, most of the time the player with more cards should win and still have a wincon left over for the following turn.

[laserstone]

Anybody tried splashing green for abrupt decay? I've already got B in my list for thoughtseize, lim-dul and massacre, and my meta is infested with miracles. I'm thinking about adding a trop to the main and trying 3 decay in place of leylines, which are now pretty useless since all the BUG players switched to miracles.

[Mackan]

Anybody tried splashing green for abrupt decay? I've already got B in my list for thoughtseize, lim-dul and massacre, and my meta is infested with miracles. I'm thinking about adding a trop to the main and trying 3 decay in place of leylines, which are now pretty useless since all the BUG players switched to miracles.

Just play Boseiju and don't bother with abrupt decay.

[Cave]

TOP8'd at local event (20-ish players) with UB Omnitell.
With DNT (3-4 resilient players) being a major force in the metagame and white-creature-based aggros like Pikula and Bant rising in numbers, I figured out discard and SB massacre would help a lot: the first being really better than spellpierce against hatebears ( :laugh: ) the second for obvious reasons.
Here's my list


UB Omnitell

1 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn

4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
1 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
1 Enter the Infinite

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Force of Will

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
------------------
3 Defense Grid
2 Massacre
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
1 Wipe Away
1 Rushing River
1 Boseiju, who shelter's all
1 Trickbind
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Release the Ants

We also invited a really skilled artworker to the tournament, so afterwards I stopped by to have my asian EtI pimped. She did an amazing job.
http://i59.tinypic.com/oh0j08.jpg

Round 1 - Death and Taxes 2-0, 1/0/0
I learned why you should never ever consider cutting Release the Ants. I won both game responding to Flickerwisp targetting Omniscience, with a well timed Wish for FF into BS, LDV, Wish

Round 2 - ANT 2-1, 2/0/0
G1 and G3 Really long and grindy games where we discarded the hell out of each other. Eventually he finished his gas and I came out in the long range. People around me exploded when I topdeck'd my final show and tell G3. Also, G1 he did some major mistakes. For example, I therapied him and saw Delta + Ponder, and in his next 2 turns he played a strand and a preordain which he topdecked, leaving me with relevant information about his hand when he could play similar options which I already knew.

Round 3 - Canadian Threshold I.D., 2/1/0
He didn't felt comfortable with the matchup and neither did I: I wanted to play against decks that didn't pack as much stack disruption as he did. We agreed on a draw

Round 4 - Death and Taxes 2-0, 3/1/0
My plan worked! He played Death and Taxes so I was pretty much set up against him. Moreover, our metagame being infested with white-based-aggro led him to long mirror matches in the last 3 rounds, so he never had time to scout my deck. He kept without Thalia and when he cast revoker, he named Jace TMS thinking I was BUG Control (because of me having one Sea in the battlefield). When I drop my combo, he lands Flickerwisp. I have Emrakul in hand so I decide to Wish for Trickbind, counter the trigger and close the game with mr.15/15. That was because since he knew so little about my deck, hiding Ants from him could have been relevant for G2/G3. However, in G2 he mulls to five with basically no gameplay (land land stoneforge revoker mother if i'm correct) and I stomp over him.

Round 5 - ANT, I.D., 3/2/0
I was first in Swiss Rounds and he was fourth, so we agreed on a I.D.

TOP8 - BANT Aggro control, 1-2
Game 1 he pressures me a lot but I am able to lure him into FoW'ing an EOT Intuition and I went off on my turn. I can't remember much about game 2 but I know he drops Canonist on my SnT and i'm low of HP so i concede. Game three he has 2 meddling mages and two dazes in his opening hand and I mulled to 6. Couldn't find a Massacre in time.

Well yeah, i'm pretty salty about my top8 loss but he played well, so he deserved it.
I honestly don't know what could be done to improve the deck but for sure I will not remove Ants from sideboard (lots of weird online tests made me think it was viable though).
Lim-Dûl's vault is the real deal in this deck and it's well worth the splash.

[TnA_Will]

I'm not a OmniTell player but working on Sideboarding strategies against this deck. I had a few times in play testing where I have 2 meddling mages hit the board after sideboarding. My question is, in your guys opinion if someone playing against you has access to multiple mages is the "right" call to name Cunning Wish and Emarkul? I'm not sure if you guys run any main deck release the ants (win con) or any actual removal main deck or if you have to use Cunning Wish to go get it? From what I've seen from lists and the people I've played at tournaments naming the 2 above mentioned cards would basically be an auto victory?

Thanks for any insight!! Trying to get ready for Starcity Wooster!!

[Lans89]

I'm not a OmniTell player but working on Sideboarding strategies against this deck. I had a few times in play testing where I have 2 meddling mages hit the board after sideboarding. My question is, in your guys opinion if someone playing against you has access to multiple mages is the "right" call to name Cunning Wish and Emarkul? I'm not sure if you guys run any main deck release the ants (win con) or any actual removal main deck or if you have to use Cunning Wish to go get it? From what I've seen from lists and the people I've played at tournaments naming the 2 above mentioned cards would basically be an auto victory?

Thanks for any insight!! Trying to get ready for Starcity Wooster!!

Since people only play Show and Tell and almost no Dream Halls, naming Show and Tell (MM1) and Cunning Wish (MM2) would almost be an auto win. But they could have a combination of Rushing River, Wipe Away, Sapphire Charm and Slaughter Pact (stays side most of the time) sided in. However, a lot of people splash red now, with acces to REB's/sudden shock/pyroclasm after boarding, or black for Massacre/toxic deluge. People have to expect hatebears if they side in stuff like that. But because of the diverse hate (even blasts are often split between pyro and REB), I believe it's still best to name Cunning Wish with your second Meddling Mage :)

[daniels]

I've read almost 40 pages of information, but I still have one question: Using 4 digs and no dream halls MD, wich combination is better, 1 emrakul, 1 emrakul + 1 eti or 2 emrakul ?

[Cave]

I've read almost 40 pages of information, but I still have one question: Using 4 digs and no dream halls MD, wich combination is better, 1 emrakul, 1 emrakul + 1 eti or 2 emrakul ?

1. You should drop one DTT since you rarely hardcast more than one in a match.
2.

a. One emrakul is the best way to spare slots, but it doesn't allow you much flexibility and reduces the amount of paths you can take to the win. You can just Wish for Call, cast Emrakul, take an extra turn, and attack; or in certain cases you can BS your emrakul back on the top and Wish for Ants.

b. Emrakul + EtI allows you to find your finisher in a much easier way (you pack 2 instead of 1 :laugh: ) and reduces the chance you drop your combo and pass because you have nothing to do.
EtI emergency pitches to FoW (which is pretty good) and allowcs you clean and safe wins (since you literally have access to all "oh s---" buttons in the deck). You also get to easily bypass attack phase. However, EtI on itself is a bad card because it does nothing but sit there and wait for Omniscience to be live

c. 2 Emrakul allows you beat the game through attack phase without letting your opponents get an extra turn. It also makes you harder to get milled (vs solidarity). It is also pretty good against any non-blue deck since Emrakul is difficult to remove; therefore improving your %'s to SnT-> Emrakul is good. However, running 2 emrakul doesn't allow you to clear the game with Ants as often as you'd want, which can mean trouble in certain cases (extra-turns/edicts/random shenanigans).

Most people stick with 2 Emrakuls. As for me, I still prefer running 1 eti (also for surgical extractions).

[iosmacman]

I played in the Dallas IQ tjis weekend ended up going 6-2 and top 16. This was my first tournment over 12 people and I had just finished the deck the day before . My loses where to TES and miracles. The lose to miracles I won game one and had omniscience oust and played dig and added to my hand Instead of picking 2 without thinking . Game 3 I didn't draw good .I think overall it was a good weekend and a great of how food the deck is even with my crappy playing.

[KobeBryan]

1. You should drop one DTT since you rarely hardcast more than one in a match.
2.

a. One emrakul is the best way to spare slots, but it doesn't allow you much flexibility and reduces the amount of paths you can take to the win. You can just Wish for Call, cast Emrakul, take an extra turn, and attack; or in certain cases you can BS your emrakul back on the top and Wish for Ants.

b. Emrakul + EtI allows you to find your finisher in a much easier way (you pack 2 instead of 1 :laugh: ) and reduces the chance you drop your combo and pass because you have nothing to do.
EtI emergency pitches to FoW (which is pretty good) and allowcs you clean and safe wins (since you literally have access to all "oh s---" buttons in the deck). You also get to easily bypass attack phase. However, EtI on itself is a bad card because it does nothing but sit there and wait for Omniscience to be live

c. 2 Emrakul allows you beat the game through attack phase without letting your opponents get an extra turn. It also makes you harder to get milled (vs solidarity). It is also pretty good against any non-blue deck since Emrakul is difficult to remove; therefore improving your %'s to SnT-> Emrakul is good. However, running 2 emrakul doesn't allow you to clear the game with Ants as often as you'd want, which can mean trouble in certain cases (extra-turns/edicts/random shenanigans).

Most people stick with 2 Emrakuls. As for me, I still prefer running 1 eti (also for surgical extractions).

I sometimes find that 3 digs are enough too. I currently have the 4th in my sideboard. Its usually wished for with cunning wish. However, if FF, i can just wish for FF, then get there.

BUT, i have had maybe 2 games where i dug 2 times and i still couldn't get my Emrakul in time.

[janluis1]

Hello guys! I would like to know im testing this deck and I love it! Few questions for you experts!

1)how is better to sequence cantrips ( especially ponder and preordain) when do you choose one over the other!?
2) Is trickbind essential? When and how do you use it!?I made hundreds of games and I never casted once. I allways comboed off in response to a trigger ( either Vendillion Clique or Venser).

Tnx in advance for your support!

[KobeBryan]

Hello guys! I would like to know im testing this deck and I love it! Few questions for you experts!

1)how is better to sequence cantrips ( especially ponder and preordain) when do you choose one over the other!?
2) Is trickbind essential? When and how do you use it!?I made hundreds of games and I never casted once. I allways comboed off in response to a trigger ( either Vendillion Clique or Venser).

Tnx in advance for your support!

I like to ponder first. dig deeper. After i see two crappy cards, I can get rid of it without shuffling with the preordain.

trickbind is your best card against DNT

[janluis1]

I like to ponder first. dig deeper. After i see two crappy cards, I can get rid of it without shuffling with the preordain.

trickbind is your best card against DNT

Why specifically is our best card against Death and taxes!? Just for Flickerwisp!?

[kkkant]

Hello guys! I would like to know im testing this deck and I love it! Few questions for you experts!

1)how is better to sequence cantrips ( especially ponder and preordain) when do you choose one over the other!?
2) Is trickbind essential? When and how do you use it!?I made hundreds of games and I never casted once. I allways comboed off in response to a trigger ( either Vendillion Clique or Venser).

Tnx in advance for your support!

Usually the correct sequence for cantrip is:

With fetchland available:
1-Brainstorm
2-Ponder
3-Preordain

Without fetchland available
1-Preordain
2-Ponder
3-Brainstorm

Of course, its a generic rule that doesnt apply to every case, but i find it to be very effecitve.


Im not a big fan of trickbind, but it is there to side it in vs decks that has ETB effects (like o.ring, ashen rider, etc) so you can Cunning wish - Firemind's Foresight - Brainstorm, Trickbind, Cunning wish so you are not forced to go off at instant speed.

[Poron]

a Omnishow that doesn't play Dream Halls or any other way to win, how does it win against anyone who holds a Iona in hand?

Don't you feel this deck needs mandatory discards?

[kkkant]

a Omnishow that doesn't play Dream Halls or any other way to win, how does it win against anyone who holds a Iona in hand?

Don't you feel this deck needs mandatory discards?


Show and tell - Omniscience - Emrakul
Or either
Show and tell - Emrakul

[Ogh!]

a Omnishow that doesn't play Dream Halls or any other way to win, how does it win against anyone who holds a Iona in hand?

Don't you feel this deck needs mandatory discards?

Omniscience into Emrakul is a possible out here. However, if your opponent holds a Iona in hand, he's certainly playing reanimator, which is an abysmal MU anyways. You'll very likely lose with or without discard.

Nevertheless, some people play OmniTell with a black splash for Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy in the MD.

[Lans89]

Omniscience into Emrakul is a possible out here. However, if your opponent holds a Iona in hand, he's certainly playing reanimator, which is an abysmal MU anyways. You'll very likely lose with or without discard.

Nevertheless, some people play OmniTell with a black splash for Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy in the MD.

One of the Ovino top 8 lists has 1 Iona side, and I've already seen people copying it :P

[KobeBryan]

Usually the correct sequence for cantrip is:

With fetchland available:
1-Brainstorm
2-Ponder
3-Preordain

Without fetchland available
1-Preordain
2-Ponder
3-Brainstorm

Of course, its a generic rule that doesnt apply to every case, but i find it to be very effecitve.


Im not a big fan of trickbind, but it is there to side it in vs decks that has ETB effects (like o.ring, ashen rider, etc) so you can Cunning wish - Firemind's Foresight - Brainstorm, Trickbind, Cunning wish so you are not forced to go off at instant speed.

without fetchland, i would not go preordain, ponder brainstorm.

i would actually brainstorm first. then use preordain or ponder. You don't want to be BS locked by any chance for 2 turns.

Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

[janluis1]

without fetchland, i would not go preordain, ponder brainstorm.

i would actually brainstorm first. then use preordain or ponder. You don't want to be BS locked by any chance for 2 turns.

Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

So let s say then is your very first turn of the game. You are on the play. Your hand is 2 islands 2 fows 1 ponder 1 brainstorm and 1 preordain. What do you do!?

[Arksz]

without fetchland, i would not go preordain, ponder brainstorm.

i would actually brainstorm first. then use preordain or ponder. You don't want to be BS locked by any chance for 2 turns.

Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

If you brainstorm after preordain you see 6 cards instead of only 4. Better chance to find a fetch or the business spells you need. I sometimes find the hardest part is getting one of the combo pieces since we only have 4 copies of each. I would usually risk it for the extra two looks.

Also your technically drawing those two cards anyway just without knowing them if you brainstorm / preordain.

[KobeBryan]

If you brainstorm after preordain you see 6 cards instead of only 4. Better chance to find a fetch or the business spells you need. I sometimes find the hardest part is getting one of the combo pieces since we only have 4 copies of each. I would usually risk it for the extra two looks.

But do you really want to cantrip a fetch when you are looking for business. I don't like the risks being BS locked.

As a combo deck without a clock and without board presence, i don't think you can afford to be locked out 2 turns.

[kkkant]

So let s say then is your very first turn of the game. You are on the play. Your hand is 2 islands 2 fows 1 ponder 1 brainstorm and 1 preordain. What do you do!?

The correct order is preordain go, then, if you drew a fetch for next turn, its brainstorm, fetch, then ponder (assuming you didnt drew nuts with bs and wont be needing to clean any garbage from your hand, in that case you play the land and pass the turn).
Edit: That, of course, varies on the matchup also. Lets say you have 2 islands,1 fow, 1 ponder 1 brainstorm 1 preordain and 1 show and tell and you know you are playing vs a deck with discard, its better to just island-go to protect our show and tell with brainstorm without spending a fow.



But do you really want to cantrip a fetch when you are looking for business. I don't like the risks being BS locked.

As a combo deck without a clock and without board presence, i don't think you can afford to be locked out 2 turns.
Against those decks where trickbind is necessary, you don't board it in. You leave it in the sideboard. You FF, for cunning wish, impulse, brainstorm. Then you use the Cunnign wish for the trickbind.

If you play preordain, then ponder, then brainstorm, and you get bs-locked, either you had terrible luck (by not seeing a single fetchland or the bussiness you needed in 10 cards) or there is something terribly wrong with the pilot.

Anyway, the order was not meant to be played that way, its just a "ranking" from best to worst cantrip in either situation.

The hole idea of playing trickbind its that ,besides the split second, that of course its an upside but not that huge if you think about it, since if there are more than 1 activation of a single ability in the stack like, for example, sneak attack (happened to me that my opponent saw the cunning wish -> trickbind play coming and activated sneak attack 2 times in order to get it to resolve through it), tidespout tyrant or counterbalance, you only get to counter 1 of them, is that you can fetch it with fireminds foresight and not losing the card adavantage.

Let me be clear:

Scenario A, trickbind on the SB
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, Impulse, BS. Cunning for trickbind, then you are left with 1 impulse and 1 brainstorm.

Scenario B, trickbind on the MD (of course game 2)
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, trickbind, BS. Trickbind the ability, then you are left with cunning wish and BS

Im just saying, in one situation you are left with 1 BS and 1 Impulse on your hand, and in the other you are left with 1 Cunning Wish and 1 BS in hand. In which one would you rather be? I think the downside of having it (a dead card) in the md on games 2-3 is not that bad compared to its upside.

[KobeBryan]

The correct order is preordain go, then, if you drew a fetch for next turn, its brainstorm, fetch, then ponder (assuming you didnt drew nuts with bs and wont be needing to clean any garbage from your hand, in that case you play the land and pass the turn).
Edit: That, of course, varies on the matchup also. Lets say you have 2 islands,1 fow, 1 ponder 1 brainstorm 1 preordain and 1 show and tell and you know you are playing vs a deck with discard, its better to just island-go to protect our show and tell with brainstorm without spending a fow.




If you play preordain, then ponder, then brainstorm, and you get bs-locked, either you had terrible luck (by not seeing a single fetchland or the bussiness you needed in 10 cards) or there is something terribly wrong with the pilot.

Anyway, the order was not meant to be played that way, its just a "ranking" from best to worst cantrip in either situation.

The hole idea of playing trickbind its that (besides the split second, that of course its an upside but not that huge if you think about it, since if there are more than 1 activation of a single ability in the stack like, for example, sneak attack, tidespout tyrant or counterbalance, you only get to counter 1 of them) is that you can fetch it with fireminds foresight and not losing the card adavantage.

Let me be clear:

Scenario A, trickbind on the SB
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, Impulse, BS. Cunning for trickbind, then you are left with 1 impulse and 1 brainstorm.

Scenario B, trickbind on the MD (of course game 2)
Show and tell, you see ashen rider, you play cunning -> FF -> Cunning, trickbind, BS. Trickbind the ability, then you are left with cunning wish and BS

Im just saying, in one situation you are left with 1 BS and 1 Impulse on your hand, and in the other you are left with 1 Cunning Wish and 1 BS in hand. In which one would you rather be? I think the downside of having it (a dead card) in the md on games 2-3 is not that bad compared to its upside.


Trick bind game 2 is not "of course" because of the dead card situation. You actually dig far deeper with BS and Impulse. With that, I would rather have it always remain on the side than have that card sit in hand.

[Cave]

As for cantrips casting order, here's a 2-y-old post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25666-Primer-Deck-High-Tide&p=712159&viewfull=1#post712159) of mine.

As for Trickbind, if you run UB you barely need that card because you win in response to everything. :laugh:

[Matsaya]

Trick bind game 2 is not "of course" because of the dead card situation. You actually dig far deeper with BS and Impulse. With that, I would rather have it always remain on the side than have that card sit in hand.

Depends on the situation. If you have omniscience on table you dig far deeper with brainstorm + wish->dig trough time.

[KobeBryan]

Depends on the situation. If you have omniscience on table you dig far deeper with brainstorm + wish->dig trough time.

Yes we know that. The. Situation was whether having trickbind in main game 2 is better or impulse

[dte]

Yes we know that. The. Situation was whether having trickbind in main game 2 is better or impulse

And it is what Matsaya was talking about: if you need trickbind and have wish post omni, you dig deeper by wish ==> FF ==> Wish (DTT) + BS + tricbind than with wish ==> FF ==> wish (trickbind) + BS + impulse.
As impulse is most often better than trickbind precombo, the question wether to put trickbind or impulse main in G2 rely on how likely you think you will need trickbind post omniscience. If you believe it's quite likely, then put trickbind main and 1 DTT SB.

[kuroko16]

Guys speaking about red splash in witch match-up you side in Young pyromancer and 1 Through the Breach?

[Dziga Murnau]

Guys speaking about red splash in witch match-up you side in Young pyromancer and 1 Through the Breach?

Youngsters are against Miracles and mirror. Breach is against mirror and Meddling Mages. But Breach as a wish target better stay in board.

[kuroko16]

Youngsters are against Miracles and mirror. Breach is against mirror and Meddling Mages. But Breach as a wish target better stay in board.

Isn't to slow wish for breach?

I love young against in miracles... There is another match up to side in?

[Varal]

Isn't to slow wish for breach?

I love young against in miracles... There is another match up to side in?

Pox, it can be hard to combo out with all their sinkhole and discard spells. They probably won't have sweeper and a Pyromancer should go the distance or at least seriously affecting their gameplan.

[famdoola]

Tourney Report


Hey so i just went 4-1 at my LGS out of about 30 ppl, not sure my exact standing cuz i had to bail and we split top 4, but yeah heres the list i went with.


4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Cunning Wish
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Enter the Infinite



4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Preordain
3 Gitaxian Probe

4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Twincast

2 Crystal Vein
7 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Ancient Tomb


SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Curfew
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Sapphire Charm
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Swan Song





Round 1 :

BUG 12 post iteration 2-1

won g1 with an enter the infinite playing emrakul then bounciung back with curfew-discarding- and having perfect 7 to get him back again.
g2 -- just couldnt get there
g3 -- opened with leyline for his discard, and a good deal of business spells, found a boseiju and hte pieces, GG



Round 2 :

Countertop 1-2

g1 - dugdown 40 cards in my library, had to hardcast omni, it gets countered, too low on life to hardcast it again -- i resolved 2 DTTs during the match and had a boseiju and emrakul in hand to completely go off and yeah, real shit luck there.

g2 -- i force his turn 1 top, and then extract it, ponder - pass, turn 2 drop Defense grid with FOW, and i just dug my life away and finally got there.

g3 -- dug my brains out, already extracted his top on like turn 3, and like g1 just couldnt get there.



Round 3

Storm

G1. Most pieces in hand, he therapies a bunch but i just keep digging and getting them again, relatively easy game.

g2 - have spell pierce in hand so i just kept digging while leave a mana open to pierce any discard, eventually get there.

2-0


round 4

12post

g1 - get there and get there quick, SnT omni - FF -- wish -twincast- brainstorm --

double the wish get call/curfew attack for 30 GG


g2 -- was a wild matchup as i knew he had the krosan grip in hand after fighting through 2 thorns, cant remember the exact thing that happened but i know i misplayed horribly and rally shouldve won.

g3 -- Mull'd to 6 and got pithing needle, he starts getting his combo together then i drop needle on stage, slows him down enough for me to chaincantrips to get my pieces - before i can go off i pass turn -- he goes to get Life from loam, and i just can feel he has the Krosan in his hand so i forced it knowing he can only cast the Grip if he plays another land so it goes back to me and its GG.


Top 8



we decided to split for this, and played 1 game just to see who gets on the Top 4 board

U/R Delver

g1 - great opening hand, with probe i know he has FOWs 2 Daze and A DTT plus a bolt

so i end up just emptying his hand during counterbattle, keeping Omni/Emrakul in mine, knowing theres a DTT on top,

cast the DTT, get the Snt and GG




Was a pretty great night, finally broke my 3 consecutive 2-2's, and felt like i really SB'd correctly and chained the cantrips really well.

Twincast performed really well as dropping omni with a Twincast and either Wish/DTT in hand just makes it GG, whereas with Impulse its still up in the air, so right now i really love its versatility and am keeping it MD for the foreseeable future.

[Adan]

I like to ponder first. dig deeper. After i see two crappy cards, I can get rid of it without shuffling with the preordain.

The correct line of play would be either to Ponder, get a useful card, shuffle away the crap with a fetchland, then Preordain and see fresh cards, or other way around would be to Preordain first, scry away the 2 cards if they are unnecessary, draw the unknown one, then Ponder. This way you see up to 7 cards (2 from the Scry, the one you draw off Preordain, the 3 cards Ponder shows you and maybe a 7th if you decide to shuffle with it).

Your way shows you 3 cards with Ponder and one with Preordain as the Scry will show you known cards.


Trickbind is your best card against DNT

Actually Emrakul is the best card, Trickbind is only relevant if the opponent boards in Oblivion Ring. The worst card DnT - or any other deck with white - can bring is Ethersworn Canonist.

Even without Trickbind you can in principle win at instant speed against a CiP trigger since DnT is unable to win clashes when you have Dig Through Time, Omniscience or Emrakul floating on the top of your library. Force of Will may also work occasionally once they have fetched their Batterskull with SFM.

[Cave]

The correct line of play would be either to Ponder, get a useful card, shuffle away the crap with a fetchland, then Preordain and see fresh cards, or other way around would be to Preordain first, scry away the 2 cards if they are unnecessary, draw the unknown one, then Ponder. This way you see up to 7 cards (2 from the Scry, the one you draw off Preordain, the 3 cards Ponder shows you and maybe a 7th if you decide to shuffle with it).

Your way shows you 3 cards with Ponder and one with Preordain as the Scry will show you known cards.

I bring your attention again to my post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25666-Primer-Deck-High-Tide&p=712159&viewfull=1#post712159) in the High Tide thread.
Both preordain -> ponder and ponder -> preordain are correct, depending on what you want to achieve.
Deciding which sequence is stronger on a purely theorical view is pointless.
The first combination will give you the best overall hand quality (you get the best out of your topdeck), while the second will dig into the deck in a more efficient way (you don't get stuck with shitty cards on top).
This is of course valid in a no-fetch enviroment. Further shuffle effects will of course invalidate my theory here.

Edit: for those who are so lazy that they don't want to click.
Basically, if you have 2+ different cantrip spells in hand, you can have 2 situations:

a. I have bad hand quality (like, 2+ unneeded cards) and I want to improve: Brainstorm> preordain> ponder
b. I miss one specific card and i need to find it to win/or I will lose: ponder > preordain > brainstorm.

[Brentane]

Hey Omniscience players, I have a problem with this deck. I do love the idea behind it, the power of it, and how it is unique as well as being mono-coloured. My problem is it is way to powerful for my playgroup. On the rarest occurrence, one of my mates might win from my Show and Tell, but other than that they have no answers to the deck. It is getting to a point where it is to powerful for their liking to play against. Now the idea to stop playing the deck with them has come to mind, but isn't Legacy a format where you are suppose to practice your decks until you know them inside and out? Or is OmniTell considered straight forward enough that I should not worry about it as to me it seems to be an easy deck to master?

[Julian23]

If you're always playing against the same set of 2-3 players, things become pretty stagnant quickly if nobody adjusts their maindecks and/or sideboards.

[ESG]

My problem is it is way to powerful for my playgroup. On the rarest occurrence, one of my mates might win from my Show and Tell, but other than that they have no answers to the deck.

Nice problem to have. I recommend entering some tournaments and either making some easy money or being brought back down to earth.

[GoblinZ]

How do you guys beat UR or Grixis delver?

[kuroko16]

How do you guys beat UR or Grixis delver?

Defense grid is very powerful but in this moment i play the UR Shoota version and there is no space for Defense in Side :(



ps. CVM Dech tech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc5Rwq51dH8

[GoblinZ]

Defense grid is very powerful but in this moment i play the UR Shoota version and there is no space for Defense in Side :(



ps. CVM Dech tech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc5Rwq51dH8

I never consider grid now even against delver, usually they can put you on a very fast clock, so I would rather cast more cantrips than resolve grid.

Also grid is useless against probe+therapy.

[kuroko16]

I honestly dont like Defense in this meta but i think are powerful against ur. in this moment i really really love the shoota version :) Against grixis with red we have some powerful cunning wish target :cool:

[AlmostGrown]

Is there any particular reason that Boseiju, Who Shelters All is not in the main deck of Omnitell?

[CutthroatCasual]

Is there any particular reason that Boseiju, Who Shelters All is not in the main deck of Omnitell?

I know some lists playing it main, most sideboard it because Wasteland/FoW decks are strong against Omnitell.

[Julian23]

While it's ok, it's also overrated. I'd hate having it in the opening hand. Against a lot of decks with countermagic, you still already side out like 2 FoW. It's more about maneuvering to the right spot to eventually grind the opponent out than to Force a Show and Tell through with Boseiju. To me, the two City of Traitors have already been awkward enough at times.

[Baum]

While it's ok, it's also overrated. I'd hate having it in the opening hand. Against a lot of decks with countermagic, you still already side out like 2 FoW. It's more about maneuvering to the right spot to eventually grind the opponent out than to Force a Show and Tell through with Boseiju. To me, the two City of Traitors have already been awkward enough at times.

I thought about siding out FoW in grindy matchups as well but never did it so far. Against which decks would you trim Forces?

On Boseiju: I like having access to one in the MD. Since I'm playing UB with LDV anyway, I can find it if I need it. You just shouldn't count it as a land slot but rather as a disruption "spell".

[henweigh]

Which decks are the best match ups for this deck and which are the worst?

[laserstone]

Which decks are the best match ups for this deck and which are the worst?

Worst matchups are: Legends Miracles, Reanimator, Dredge
Best matchups: Painter, 12-Post

Most other decks are somewhere in between.

[kuroko16]

hi guys. next week i have a Tournament in Italy. ( probably about 100 player)

not sure to bring The Mono U or Red Splash :(

last tournament i made top8 with Red splash but this time i have no idea about the Meta i will find.



what do you think is best deck in this moment in a medium tournament ?


thanks

[Spam]

hi guys. next week i have a Tournament in Italy. ( probably about 100 player)

not sure to bring The Mono U or Red Splash :(

last tournament i made top8 with Red splash but this time i have no idea about the Meta i will find.



what do you think is best deck in this moment in a medium tournament ?


thanks
I still think mono U is the best choice; more stable, streamlined and effective.

[guillemnicolau]

Worst matchups are: Legends Miracles, Reanimator, Dredge
Best matchups: Painter, 12-Post

Most other decks are somewhere in between.

Last saturday I played against a 12-post similar to this one (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16423&iddeck=122841) and it was a pain in the ass. I gitaxianed and saw primeval titan + krosan grip. And yes, it's hard to beat that, as if you show into omniscience, he'll krosan it in response to primeval's hability, and if you show into emrakul he'll search a karakas with the primeval anyway...

Also, painters, with 8 maindeck rebs, it's not that easy to beat.

[daniels]

I'm playing here against some non-tier decks like Monoblack Reanimator and Monored Sneak Attack and the biggest challenge for me is to deal with Iona, Shield of Emeria.

If they handle to put Iona into field (using their spells or even my Show and Tell), it's gg for me. I thought I could Stifle it's ability, but it's not a triggered ability.

How do you handle Iona?

[JPoJohnson]

A few options:

1. Splash a color (like one tundra to get white removal with Cunning Wish in response).
2. Go off before
3. Be smart about what you counter and what you let through. Save your counters for what's truly key.
4. Sometimes that just happens. Realize that if your opponent out-draws you that sometimes you just lose.

I personally don't think that Iona has a large enough presence to truly fear, but for smaller local metas tailoring your deck can be extremely beneficial.

[daniels]

But if Iona comes into play using Show and Tell, we don't have the chance to use anything, am I correct?

[JPoJohnson]

Correct.

[KobeBryan]

Worst matchups are: Legends Miracles, Reanimator, Dredge
Best matchups: Painter, 12-Post

Most other decks are somewhere in between.

How is painter's a good matchup. They run 8 blasts.

I haven't tested against this deck much as its not really prevalent

[Baum]

The matchup against Painter actually is pretty decent. Was the first matchup I ever tested with Omnitell.
If they don't run MD Tormod's Crypt, they can't win game 1 because we've got Emrakul. Their 7-8 Blasts are literally the only cards that matter at all and they don't have cantrips to find enough of them in time. Unlike Sneak Show, we don't care about stuff like Ensnaring Bridge. SB sphere effects are annoying but beatable.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Maybe w/r painter, but there is a ur painter and it does run cantrips, as well as force and 6-8 blast effects.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Baum]

I never tested against UR Painter. Ran into Grixis Painter once, but my opponent was on tilt even before the first game started, so he probably didn't play well.
Anyway, I think if you encounter Painter, it's more likely to be mono R or RW.

[Karhumies]

In the painter thread, many pilots have admitted their g1 against us is horrible. Their SB plan against us is typically digging/tutoring for Etherium Sculptor, then when we play SnT, they land the Sculptor with a follow-up Blast to Omniscience on the same turn. The Sculptor also does not constrict their own combo potential.

[Lans89]

But if Iona comes into play using Show and Tell, we don't have the chance to use anything, am I correct?

A lot of people play 1 Slaughter Pact on the side. Side it it and /prey :frown: There is nothing better I'm afraid xD

[Avez]

In the painter thread, many pilots have admitted their g1 against us is horrible. Their SB plan against us is typically digging/tutoring for Etherium Sculptor, then when we play SnT, they land the Sculptor with a follow-up Blast to Omniscience on the same turn. The Sculptor also does not constrict their own combo potential.

I think you mean Ethersworn Canonist and sometimes RW Painter has one even in mainboard. I have to admit that playing Painter myself versus Omnitell is usually just horrible, regardless of the 6-7 mainboard red blasts :frown:

[Julian23]

TIL Preordain is pretty good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUSt-c5s8P0

[Dziga Murnau]

How is painter's a good matchup. They run 8 blasts.

I haven't tested against this deck much as its not really prevalent

They just cannot win as long as you fight their gravehate (Tormod's Crypt first of all). If you extract it, they'll have to beat with Painters to get you. So you have all the time to assemble the combo.
But you should play 2 Emri: one on the battlefield, one in library just in case.

[mariobross]

Hello everyone I started playing the deck recently but I already have win some
smaller tournaments from 30-40 players(I think it is much merit in the deck ...).

I play the version with red, this is my list:

Creatures 2
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants 19
1 Impulse
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Sorceries 16
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell

Enchantments 4
4 Omniscience

Lands 19
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 City of Traitors
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
6 Island

SIDE:
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Pyroclasm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Wipe Away
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Through the Breach
1 Trickbind



I wanted to know your opinions on side-IN/OUT in the most important metch up as:
Miracle, Grixys, Team America, BUG control, D & T and Threshold UGR


obviously a deck that uses 3-4 cunning wish in main can not sid-in too much because of the wish board to keep in side,
but I'd still like learn from you more experienced, as you would in the sidate these metch-up.

I think the side-IN/OUT as well be one of the most important aspects of the game,
which is why I wanted to bring your attention to the side-IN/OUT




P.S. I also have the problem of Trickbind, in 20 games I have it used maybe one time ... as you used this card????

[Julian23]

P.S. I also have the problem of Trickbind, in 20 games I have it used maybe one time ... as you used this card????

I used Trickbind a lot on Magic Online; it is the one change I have made to Shouta's GP list, removing Entreat the Ants for it. They are both pretty much the same card, allowing you to win with an annoying triggered ability on the stack. The only thing is that Entreat requires slightly more setup.
There's the corner case scenario of not being able to win without the attack step, but I think that's negligible.

[guillemnicolau]

I used Trickbind a lot on Magic Online; it is the one change I have made to Shouta's GP list, removing Entreat the Ants for it. They are both pretty much the same card, allowing you to win with an annoying triggered ability on the stack. The only thing is that Entreat requires slightly more setup.
There's the corner case scenario of not being able to win without the attack step, but I think that's negligible.

Well, it's not exactly the same, in the mirror killing in response to your opponents DTT or cunning wish might be really relevant.