[Deck] Owling Brown

[phazonmutant]

Hey guys. Alphastryk and I did what we always do when driving on long Magic trips - brew up a sweet deck! I'm not sure if it's good, but it seems like an interesting idea and definitely has some strong plays.

The idea is to port Owling Mine to Legacy, or alternatively port Shops to Legacy. Alphastryk claimed there was this card called Misers' Cage and I just didn't believe him, and that started a sweet brew session. We believe that Ebony Owl Netsuke is a powerful effect to close the game if you can lock your opponent out, and Howling Mine is going to be better for you if your opponent can't cast spells. Of course, Howling Mine is a dangerous effect in Legacy, but with a bunch of Chalices, 3balls, and Spheres, maybe we can even beat combo. So here's where we got to:
// Lock Pieces
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
1 Winter Orb

// Kill
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Lodestone Golem

// Enablers
4 Howling Mine
3 Font of Mythos
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Trading Post

// Mana Sources
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Buried Ruin

The sideboard probably would have some number of Cursed Totem, Sphere of Resistance, Spine of Ish Sah (for Show and Tell), maybe even Leyline of Sanctity.

We tried a build with Great Furnace and Goblin Welder, but couldn't make the numbers fit right. Mox Opal was a consideration in that build, but even with them, Welder would be hard to cast and have disynergy with Chalice. Tangle Wire + Winter Orb seems like a powerful effect, so maybe it's right to get more Orbs in the deck, but couldn't find room. We also started with 2 Misers' Cage, but it just didn't seem impactful enough with 4 Owls and 4 Golems. What do you guys think?

[monovfox]

2 Trading Post


Count me in on helping this, going to test it after a shower.

played a few matches.

what I liked:
Howling Mine
Netsuke
Crucible
Trading Post
Winter Orb
Tangle Wire

What I hated:
Font of Mythos
Lodestone Golem
Triniaphere (I feel like it is much more of a vintage card, and it doesn't make show and tell cost more mana)

The problem with the latter two being 4 mana. Lodestone golem is a great card, but I think we need a grim monolith or 2 to support him.

Winter Orb and Tangle wire were amazing. Would play again.

I'd actually just play 4x ghost quarter instead of Buried Ruin, because it helps with the "you cannot do shit plan".

Generally speaking, 4 is the rough spot in the curve, I suggest we find a way to fix that.

[Darkenslight]

Land:
2 Karakas
2 Buried Ruin
2 Scorched Ruins
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mox Diamond

Win conditions:
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Staff of Nin

Artifacts:
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Mox Diamond
4 Howling Mine
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Trading Post
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grim Monolith

Just off the top of my head. One of the things I'd potentially look into is Exploration-effects (or Burgeoning for ridiculous starts. Alternatively, Walking Atlas seems like a fun fit.

[Spigore]

This looks like a very interesting deck!

I think the power of the lock comes from Tangle Wire. It definately slows down the entire game, building up on both player's hands.
I have not yet tested the deck but I think Lodestone Golem is quite important for it's taxing effect, alongside a beating or two.
Staff of Nin seems like an interesting addition to the deck and can speed up the mid-late game where you want to dig for additional beatings or lock pieces.

Looking forward on how this deck turns out. Will give decklists a try, it seems like a blast to play!

[Monkey_Island]

Have you guys considered Iron Maiden? It costs one more, does one less damage if the oppenent have 7 cards but it doesn't have the conditional requirement of Ebony Owl Netsuke...

[monovfox]

here's my list
win-cons//
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Lodestone Golem

lock pieces and recursion//

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
2 Winter Orb
4 Howling Mine
3 Font of Mythos
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Trading Post

//Mana
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Grim Monolith


why I cut Trinisphere:
Trinisphere is absolutely insane... in vintage. I feel like its usefulness in legacy is limited, in comparison to vintage (well, atleast in the mainboard). When the most important spell in the format (show and tell) costs 3 mana, I see no reason to run it. Chalice of void should do the same thing in game 1 with help from lodestone golem and friends.

Now, not to say that I will not be packing 3 spheres in the side. I will be doing that. Card is nuts. If anyone has arguments against not-running trinisphere in the main, let me know (also, how does it interact with omniscience?).

I agree with the thoughts on being able to make multiple land drops in one turn. If there is something I wish this deck could do, it would be that.

I'm not running Buried Ruin, as Trading Post does the same thing, without costing us a land drop. Ghost quarter is absolutely insane in the current format, and I really want to take advantage of that by running 4 of the.

Btw, if you have lots of affinity and storm in your meta, I would totally run trinispheres in the main. I might do a 2/2 split of trinisphere to chalice, or just cut all chalice for trinisphere, and put chalices in the sideboard.

It's late, I hope my thought process makes sense.

Cheers-
Monovfox

Edit: @Iron Maiden CD, Netsuke is better, because we usually get them to have 7 cards in hand anyhow.

[Nonex]

If anyone has arguments against not-running trinisphere in the main, let me know (also, how does it interact with omniscience?).

Everything costs 3. Same with Dream Halls. Trinisphere waits until all kinds of costs are calculated and locked, then replaces mana requirements if they are too low.

[Canarias4life]

What do you do vs creatures? he can't play nothing but his creatures can attack you. Why don't you play (blue) transmute artifact?

[Finn]

If you go into blue there are benefits

mana breach
overburden

Otherwise, Sphere of Resistance

[alphastryk]

What do you do vs creatures? he can't play nothing but his creatures can attack you. Why don't you play (blue) transmute artifact?

Board 4 batterskulls and 4 spellskites? Seems like that should stonewall them enough.

[Canarias4life]

What do you think about this deck list? I have pendrell mists(I havent got The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale) to defend, thirst for knowledge to draw, transmute artifact to search any artifact and tezzeret the seeker to finish the game.

//Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
14 Island
4 Seat of the Synod

//Spells
4 Azorius Signet
4 Chalice of the Void
2 transmute artifact
3 Pendrell Mists
4 howling mine
3 ebony owl netsuke
1 Talisman of Progress
3 Tangle Wire
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Trinisphere
4 Winter Orb

In the second game we can play Back to basics over 3 winter orb :P

[Spigore]

If you go into blue there are benefits

mana breach
overburden

Otherwise, Sphere of Resistance

Breach and Overburden look a bit awkward when you're playing Rishadan Port to lock them from using their lands in the mainphase.
However, it's an interesting approach.

I assume Smokestack has been considered?

[alphastryk]

Breach and Overburden look a bit awkward when you're playing Rishadan Port to lock them from using their lands in the mainphase.
However, it's an interesting approach.

I assume Smokestack has been considered?

Smokestack was in some of the original lists, and it's certainly powerful enough to try out.

I think the best way to handle creatures would be something along the lines of boarding 4 Tabernacles....

[.dk]

Umm, pretty much awesome. Must build and bring to a local sometime! Haven't played a stax-ish or stompy variant in a long time and would likely crap all over the billions of storm players around here.

This deck feels like it wants some number of Tabernacles and/or Maze of Ith in the 75.

[Madmankevinx]

What about working in some Grim Monolith and splashing black for Nether Void and The Abyss as lock pieces? Not to mention that black has many options to deal with creatures, like damnation and various other spot removal.

[Freggle]

and Howling Mine is going to be better for you if your opponent can't cast spells.

Have you considered:

Ethersworn Canonist - Opponent can't cast, you can
Phyrexian Metamorph - Just good, and can copy sphere effects
Horn of Greed - Even land drops don't reduce your opponents hand & turbo charges you.
Academy Ruins - Get stuff back
Engineered Explosives - Opps you resolved something important.
Tron lands - Might suck.

[nedleeds]

Nether Void and Abyss together sound like a match made in N&DD forum retard heaven.

Moving on to actual suggestions that aren't completely retarded, I think Metamorph is pretty strong in this kind of deck where most of your lock pieces are good in multiples (Lodestone, Tangle Wire, Spheres, Mines, Owls) ... it also kills Thalia, Teeg and can salvage a game where an opponent taps out to SnT a legend and you have a sphere effect out.

Somebody mentioned that Trinisphere is bad vs. SnT. Well ... against OmniTell there's nothing I'd rather drop off the SnT. It ends their turn and gives you free reign on your turn. Trinispheres only real problem is being awful in multiples.

[phazonmutant]

Metamorph does seem strong. I've never wanted to cast Font of Mythos, so that's probably just not necessary. I think the deck might need to play more lands though. In the couple of matches I played I had a ton of hands that just didn't have enough lands. Maybe 26 is the right number?

[alphastryk]

Metamorph does seem strong. I've never wanted to cast Font of Mythos, so that's probably just not necessary. I think the deck might need to play more lands though. In the couple of matches I played I had a ton of hands that just didn't have enough lands. Maybe 26 is the right number?

That definitely could make sense considering we will be throwing away Wasteland and Ghost Quarter and City of Traitors will betray us on occasion.

[Zupponn]

I was gonna suggest the Canonist, but Freggle beat me to it. It seems insane in this deck, especially if you drop a T1 Chalice to invalidate the majority of their removal.

EDIT: Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon are probably worth a look as well.

[Freggle]

Metamorph does seem strong. I've never wanted to cast Font of Mythos, so that's probably just not necessary. I think the deck might need to play more lands though. In the couple of matches I played I had a ton of hands that just didn't have enough lands. Maybe 26 is the right number?

Or consider Crucible of Worlds

[Poron]

or consider a whole different strategy. Notion Thief to steal all of his draws and to win with overwhelming card advantage.

[alphastryk]

Or consider Crucible of Worlds

There are 2 Crucibles in the list...

[phazonmutant]

So I've gotten like 10 matches in and so far here are my thoughts:

The manabase is already sketchy, I really can't see adding a color. Like maybe you could adjust it to play the artifact lands and Mox Opal? But it seems like it detracts a lot from the utility lands. I haven't used Port much, but Ghost Quarter and Factory are very good so far.
Tangle Wire is good, but I don't think it's a 4-of. It's a great way to close once you drop something, but Howling Mine and Trinisphere both turn off if you tap them and it does slow us down from making a 4-drop and if they have a creature in play it's pretty bad.
On the other hand, Sphere of Resistance has been very good. I think the deck wants a couple in the maindeck.
The deck doesn't have much that affects the board, so I think a pile of Tabernacles and some Metamorphs in the main seem really good.


So here's where I'm at right now:
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
4 Howling Mine
1 Trading Post
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Tangle Wire
2 Winter Orb
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Mox Diamond
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Rishadan Port
1 Buried Ruin
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 4 Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Cursed Totem
SB: 2 Tangle Wire
SB: 4 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

It's definitely rough, but I've been impressed with some of the interactions. It really does feel like Vintage Shops sometimes.

[Poron]

how do you deal with a turn 0 Delver of Secrets, Nimble Moongose, Goblin Guide, Vexing Devil.. or just anything that beats?

(+4 Metalworker +2 Winter Orb)

[phazonmutant]

how do you deal with a turn 0 Delver of Secrets, Nimble Moongose, Goblin Guide, Vexing Devil.. or just anything that beats?

(+4 Metalworker +2 Winter Orb)

Yeah, that's the real issue, isn't it? My thought is that mana denial and Tabernacles will help postboard and Metamorph will help preboard, but I'm not really sure. The best I've found in the current build is lock out any subsequent plays and race them with Lodestone Golem and Factory.

[Poron]

why isn't Smokestack your best friend?

also, your deck is shouting for Metalworker, really, doesn't make anysense you're not running it ALONG with All is Dust

[Mr. Safety]

With Buried Ruin as tech in the deck...Mindslaver?

[monovfox]

If you go into blue there are benefits

mana breach
overburden

Otherwise, Sphere of Resistance

Seems like a bit if a non-bo with winter orb if I am not mistaken

[guybrush3]

splash white for x4 these Equipoise

[Poron]

nono All is Dust is your man

[FTW]

Nonononon

Notion Thief FTlulz

[Spigore]

So Phazon,

I haven't tested the suggested lists yet but I'm just wondering:
How much is the Owl hitting for? Can you get your opponents locked and drawing for the owl to hit, or is it the situational hit?

As the 75 look now, in my eyes, Maze of Ith looks more promising than Tabernacle.
Maze of Ith provides a permanent lock-out of a creature from hurting you, whereas Tabernacle could be worked around.
Although the Maze doesn't protect you from multiples, it does stall the beatings long enough for you to drop Golem + Lockpiece 1 (+ Lockpiece 2) and race them.

[phazonmutant]

So Phazon,

I haven't tested the suggested lists yet but I'm just wondering:
How much is the Owl hitting for? Can you get your opponents locked and drawing for the owl to hit, or is it the situational hit?

As the 75 look now, in my eyes, Maze of Ith looks more promising than Tabernacle.
Maze of Ith provides a permanent lock-out of a creature from hurting you, whereas Tabernacle could be worked around.
Although the Maze doesn't protect you from multiples, it does stall the beatings long enough for you to drop Golem + Lockpiece 1 (+ Lockpiece 2) and race them.

I mean....4, right? Seriously though, yeah that's a real concern. Netsuke doesn't affect the board and only works if your deck is going to plan. That being said, if you're ever on the play it feels nuts, and if you have even just a Chalice or a Sphere, often Netsuke will deal 8+ damage. I'm not convinced that Netsuke by itself will make this deck competitive, but it doesn't seem right out. I've had games where Netsuke did 16 and a Factory helped out to close the game.

Maze is good at stopping damage, but Tabernacle is better at tying up their mana. Most of our gameplan is mana denial anyway so it seems more synergistic. I'm a little bit sceptical about land-type lock pieces because I already feel constrained that I can only make one land drop per turn. There's just so many spells that you want to deploy immediately that wasting a land drop is a real cost.

[Spigore]

If you're sceptical about land-type lock pieces because you want to deploy your mana base and yank in those artifacts;
Perhaps you could consider dropping Maze of Ith or Tabernacle and go for Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard?
It's pretty much depending on how you're able to empty your hand, but I don't think that will be much of a problem.

A bigger downside of Ensnaring Bridge is that is falls to Abrupt Decay. I don't know how much this deck prisons the opponent though.
Next to that, Claws of Gix + Ensnaring Bridge is pretty old school tech. ;)

I should stop brainfarting and get the 75 together and start testing.
IMHO Netsuke should definately stay in the deck. What's not to like from an Owl just staring your opponent to death? :)

EDIT: I agree that Tabernacle ties up their manabase, but so it does yours. Next to that Tabernacle can't come down in multiples and is overpriced cardboard against Sneaky Show.

[.dk]

Ensnaring Bridge is typically good in more traditional stax type lists... but doesn't really work well when you're playing cards like Howling Mine. Your hand stays too full, and likely delvers and mongeese will still be getting through just fine. Deathrite is also a bit of an issue if you're relying too heavily on Bridge - Tabernacle does great work with Deathrite on the board.

[phazonmutant]

If you're sceptical about land-type lock pieces because you want to deploy your mana base and yank in those artifacts;
Perhaps you could consider dropping Maze of Ith or Tabernacle and go for Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard?
It's pretty much depending on how you're able to empty your hand, but I don't think that will be much of a problem.

A bigger downside of Ensnaring Bridge is that is falls to Abrupt Decay. I don't know how much this deck prisons the opponent though.
Next to that, Claws of Gix + Ensnaring Bridge is pretty old school tech. ;)

I should stop brainfarting and get the 75 together and start testing.
IMHO Netsuke should definately stay in the deck. What's not to like from an Owl just staring your opponent to death? :)

EDIT: I agree that Tabernacle ties up their manabase, but so it does yours. Next to that Tabernacle can't come down in multiples and is overpriced cardboard against Sneaky Show.

Yeah, those are pretty much the concerns I have with Tabernacle. It's hard skipping a land drop and it's not fantastic against Sneak and Show. On the other hand, I think that it's going to be really good against all the other decks like Thresh and Elves considering how much mana denial this deck has. It's also another card to pitch to Mox Diamond.

.dk pretty much summed up why Ensnaring Bridge isn't good.

[.dk]

If you want to get really cutesey and use Ensnaring Bridge, you could pack Bottled Cloisters though... That will still work. :)

[Freggle]

Ensnaring Bridge is typically good in more traditional stax type lists... but doesn't really work well when you're playing cards like Howling Mine. Your hand stays too full, and likely delvers and mongeese will still be getting through just fine. Deathrite is also a bit of an issue if you're relying too heavily on Bridge - Tabernacle does great work with Deathrite on the board.

If symmetrical draw makes Ensnaring Bridge bad would it make Ivory Tower decent? ...it can also be paired with Reliquary Tower for additional fun. This could also help by giving the deck a central focus, and give more weight to the owl, draw plan.

I see you do have the Crucible of Worlds for additional protection for the tower. (Thanks for correcting me as well.)

[.dk]

If symmetrical draw makes Ensnaring Bridge bad would it make Ivory Tower decent? ...it can also be paired with Reliquary Tower for additional fun. This could also help by giving the deck a central focus, and give more weight to the owl, draw plan.

I see you do have the Crucible of Worlds for additional protection for the tower. (Thanks for correcting me as well.)

Ivory Tower is kind of a non-bo with Chalice and Sol Lands. :(

[Spigore]

Razormane Masticore
Masticore

Could be options to removing pesky creatures, if Tabernacle is not what this deck can afford to play.
Just my 2 cents, but then again I doubt their usefulness.

Did anyone besides Phazon actually played the deck?
I'm eager to test but can't find the time to do so, TGIF soon!

[monovfox]

Why werent these lists running spellskite again?

Also, deck needs more discussion becuase it is awesome. I'll be playing it at a 10 proxy event soon.

[phazonmutant]

So about that Vise unban? Vise and Chalice aren't friends but that's ok, we can just play more Spheres.

4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Trinisphere
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Tangle Wire
4 Black Vise
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
2 Winder Orb
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Mutavault

[nedleeds]

Winder Orb is strong.

[nedleeds]

I think I want 24-25 lands for Mox Diamond. I also want at least 3 Crucibles and I want 2-3 The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale. I don't think I want the full 4 Owls, it's the worst card in the deck.

[rufus]

I think I want 24-25 lands for Mox Diamond. I also want at least 3 Crucibles and I want 2-3 The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale. I don't think I want the full 4 Owls, it's the worst card in the deck.

A ghost quarter or two would also help with the wastelock thing.

[(nameless one)]

So about that Vise unban? Vise and Chalice aren't friends but that's ok, we can just play more Spheres.

Or you run Smokestack with it. With Smokestacks, if you managed to resolve an early Chalice @ 1, you can later sac it to Smokestack. Smokestack is also a resistor to your opponent once it's active.


Also, with Winter Orb, I think the Cloudpost manabase can supplement your manabase. But if your gonna do that, you might want to compliment them with Mox Diamond.

This was my MUD list. I might convert it to Owling Brown:


4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Mishra's Factory
3 City of Traitors
3 Vesuva
3 Wasteland

4 Mox Diamond
3 Grim Monolith

4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
1 Crucible of Worlds