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KntrellCL
05-28-2013, 04:52 AM
Ive been working on a Control deck which use Life from the Loam engine for card advantage and develop mana base without failing land drops.


Spells [34]

Counterspells [11]
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare

Cantrips [7]
4 Brainstorm
3 Life from the Loam

Assist [3]
3 Intuition

Board-Control [10]
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares


Win Condition [3]
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor

Lands[27]

Mana Source [18]

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Savannah
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest

Utility Lands [4]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Tranquil Thicket

Control [3]
3 Wasteland

Manlands [2]
2 Mishra's Factory


Cards selection:

Counters: I like the idea of playing counters on this deck in a big number (trying to support Force of will on early turns). Spell pierce is really good at spells which are really annoying against this deck (since this deck plays a lot of creatures removal). Spell snare has shown to be really good, it gets rid of Dark Confidant, Sylvan Library, Snapcasters, GOYFS (too much pressure if you dont have StP on hand) and Hymn to Tourach (which is almost useless if you have loam online) but it hurts on early game.

Cantrips:

Brainstorm is just a 4-of on any U-based deck and is just Nuts with LFTL. Is just one of the best cards on legacy and I take full advantage of this card on this deck. You can use any of its draw to dredge loam back to your hand. This has shown to be very useful in plenty of diferent situations.... you can get back multiple copies of loam (ie... two copies on GY, and take 1 back to the deck and shuffle) or some other times you need to hit Punishing Fire into the GY or Wasteland/Academy or EE. If you cast a loam BEFORE BS... you can get back some dual lands you dredge away with 1 fetch, taking back those dual lands and then fetch again. In any other case, you can just brainstorm as normal.

Life from the Loam... this card has been my favorite since its release. You can create entire decks around it or using it as an assist card. I like the fact it helps to almost never fail a land drop, which is VERY important on control decks. It also provides cycle lands to keep drawing, a lot of fetchlands, fix mana colors and recursible wastelands.

I like the idea of playing wasteland with LFTL but it's not the main strategy, i like them on this deck to waste opossing groves of the burnwillows, which is a very powerful engine against control.


Assists:

Intuition: with this card you can get part of the engines you need on that or future moments. You can create a bunch of diferents package with intuition. Also a blue card to pitch with FOW. For 2U you can ensure to land grove/punishing engine and loam or Academy/EE/loam engine against aggro. Or Loam/thicket/thicket against control or something simple like 3 EE against a bunch of Goyfs attacking.

Board Control:

I know this is a very slow deck, so Im trying to keep it alive against aggro decks.

White provides us with the best creature removal, Swords to Plowshares. Enough reason to play it. I usually used this cards just for big creatures I usually cant get rid with Punishing Fire. White also provides good cards for SB.

Punishing Fire: This card gives you the advantage in long therms. Having "infinite" removals is just fantastic, you are trying to keep this game as long as you can. You can control easily opossing PWs with this card.

Engineered Explosives.... I chose this card for many reasons... you can blow out multiples Goyfs.... multiple dark shamans and some other permanents which I dont have any other answer (like artifacts and enchantments). With 4C, you can take care almost everything important you should be worried about.

PWs

Jace, TMS: Just the best PW in magic. You can take a lot of advantage with this card (as I explained on the Brainstorm section). It's a good finisher but Ive been using it very aggresively.

Mana base:

The mana base is PRETTY greedy and it needs protection.... I fetch ONLY if I needed it...

The single Forest has been my heroe (here... and in my Lands deck) is just fantastic... it ensures you can play LFTL everytime.


Utility Lands:

Academy ruins is used to abuse with EE, but it has some other functions.... Usually this deck goes through the entire deck. Sometimes if I want loam back but I want to protect the amount of cards my deck has left, I can get back EE in my oponents EOT and then doing it again on my Upkeep... ensuring i will dredge away 2 artifacts + 1 random card.

Karakas... is a really great card, its has almost no drawback.... so having it around has been very useful. I like playing 1 on MD for any urgency. (Also, I play Vendilion Clique on SB, it has a great interaction).

Tranquil Thicket: I usually used it to keep my LFTL safe, but it also works for drawing new spells. Every single card you draw, you can turn it into LFTL or a random card from the top. But sometimes, you need to drop a land AND draw a spell, so this card make this happen. It works wonderful for playing around oposing Cliques. You can draw on your draw step and the cycle on your main phase, get back loam.... casting it and then get back your Tranquil Thicket

Control Lands:

Wasteland: you can abuse of wasteland+LFTL but this is not the main strategy. I put this card to protect myself from other groves, cavern of souls or plenty of other utility lands which gives my oponent some recursion (ie. Volrath's Stronghold).

Man Lands:

Mishra's Factory.... this is just for flavor... I love mishra's factory but I have to admit that I started with 4 copies and now I have 2. Probably with the new rules, this cards will be change for 1 Thespian's Stage + 1 Dark Depths.

But I must say... on many cases... Factories were very good against Liliana, Mongoose and other cards!



Match Ups


Ive been testing on Cockatrice against random people and also with some friends. I also went to a 4 round Swiss tournament and did 4-0 against Esper Deathblade, Reanimator, Belcher and BUG Tempo. The deck's perfomance was awesome and I didnt do any changes until now.

Until now, Ive this results:



Esper Deathblade: Very Favorable. Punishing Fire does most of the work and LFTL is just too much for their greedy manabase. The only card you should worry is DRS.

RUG Delver: Even to favorable. It depends if they play Stifle or not. Stifle version has a little edge over the Non'Stifle version on this MU. This deck plays a little amount of creatures, so usually you have response with Goyfs and Delvers, but Mongoose is a real deal here. You should try to land a EE at 1 and destroy as many mongoose you can. Taking care of the R sources is also very important (more than the G sources), because you can Stabilize with very low life and they can reach you with some bolts.

BUG Delver: Favorable, this deck is just like RUG delver but just worst. Decays are death cards and they play no mongose. Tombstalker can be removed with StP or bounce with Jace. Some versions plays with Clique, so watch out with your loams or a bad Punishing Fire.

Show and Tell: Very Unfavorable, I can almost say you have no outs against this deck. They play the same amount of counters, but they have to protect just 1 time the Show n Tell and GG, especially if they go for Sneak Attack. Karakas is just not enough and StP gets countered 90% of the times with Griselbrand. You need Heavy SB on this MU
nd
Goblins: Even to Favorable.... if they started too quickly, almost no deck can beat that. Try to take care of Lackey and counter Aether vial and then stall the game with Punishing Fire. EE is "good" on this match up, but they play a lot of diferent CMC creatures. Swords are used to get rid of warchief and chieftain (most important creatures in mid game) and Fire should be used against Piledriver and other stuff. SB heavily on this MU too since your Counterspells are almost dead cards. Supreme Verdict and Blue Elemental Blast are good removals to keep up this MU.

Belcher: Very favorable. With 11 counters and 3 EE... they cant go for chalbelcher or goblins.

UW Miracles: Very Favorable.... same as esper.... Punishing Fire is just too strong on this MU. You can use EE against Counterbalance if they are playing any and also against their angels. Counters should be used against RIP if they are playing it....and watch out with Vendillion or Blood Moons. REB in SB is pretty sweet against opossing Jaces. Watch out for Back to Basics.

Jund: Favorable.... Punishing fire take care of DRS, Bobs, BBE. StP for Goyfs and Spell Snare does a lot of work on this MU. Sylvan Library is a card you should be worried. It gave them gas and you usually use a lot of groves so they can keep paying lifes!


Storm: Very Favorable. I cant tell that much on this MU but with 11 counters you should be doing great....

UB Tezzerator: Very Favorable... Until now, EE has been really good on this MU.... they produce a lot of Mana, especially with Sol lands, so spell pierce usually gets worse through the MU, but if you can keep wastelands in play, they get value again.... Spell Snare are use to keep Chalice out of the Way.... Baleful Strix is very slow clock, so dont worry about him... try to keep Tezz out of the board and Jace.

Burn: Very Unfavorable. Price of Progress will catch you up. Even if you could Stabilize, they will draw some burns and win at the end. Without a card like Counterbalance I think this is one of the most difficult MUs. Blue elemental blast and Vendilions comes in on G2.


I would like to hear some opinions and try new stuff! This is DEVELOPMENT section... many times I post a new deck I got posts like " TRY THIS DECK..." or I dont know... If I want to play a Top Tier deck, I would it done long time ago. I really want to create a LFTL control deck since I play Lands in real life and I think the card can bring some new decks besides Aggro Loam and Lands. Thanks!

kingtk3
05-28-2013, 06:38 AM
Although there are differences in card choices, this deck feels like Landstill: for example you play EE while Landstill has Pernicious deed (which is quite an improvement).
I'm not an expert but maybe you can find some advice in their forum: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?9413-Deck-UBGx-Landstill/page73

One thing I know however: 11 counters will not save you from storm if you don't have a clock, like say Merfolk. Decent storm players will simply wait and sculpt the perfect hand than discard your counters or Silence you and go off. Remeber that for each spell that you counter the storm count increments by 2.

KntrellCL
05-28-2013, 12:59 PM
Although there are differences in card choices, this deck feels like Landstill: for example you play EE while Landstill has Pernicious deed (which is quite an improvement).
I'm not an expert but maybe you can find some advice in their forum: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?9413-Deck-UBGx-Landstill/page73

One thing I know however: 11 counters will not save you from storm if you don't have a clock, like say Merfolk. Decent storm players will simply wait and sculpt the perfect hand than discard your counters or Silence you and go off. Remeber that for each spell that you counter the storm count increments by 2.

You are probably right about discard and storm, as I said, I havent tested that much. I think with the dark depths combo... the match up is going to improve.

Also, it does look like landstill... thats why is named it Loamstill haha. Landstill use Life as an assist card if they need to get back some manlands... instead, Im trying to use LFTL as an card advantage engine.

Aggro_zombies
05-28-2013, 01:08 PM
You're better off trying to use planeswalkers to generate card advantage. They don't come with a giant "don't graveyard hate me, bro" sign and also don't eat mana, time, and tempo for breakfast.

A one-of Loam to recur fetchlands is fine, though.

twndomn
05-28-2013, 01:18 PM
So you modified land.dec, threw away chalice and added back brainstorm, StP, and Jace. Put a "new age" label on it and splash in irrelevant "still" in the name. I don't know if I should call this clever or just not giving credits/references correctly.

I find it funny that you have no graveyard hate, when you could have easily put a Bojuka Bog somewhere. Sure, Manaless dredge might not be tier 1, but Legacy is a format simply utilize graveyard as a resource or hate it.

Benie Bederios
05-28-2013, 01:35 PM
The one problem there was with Life from the Loam and Standstill, is that the cards themselve aren't really good together. Crucible of Worlds was the weapon of choice in Landstill because you could use it under a Standstill.

Both cards are good though. There was a deck ITF (It's the Fear.) That deck was a control deck with Loam as draw-engine. Might be worth looking into.

BB

Aggro_zombies
05-28-2013, 01:44 PM
The one problem there was with Life from the Loam and Standstill, is that the cards themselve aren't really good together. Crucible of Worlds was the weapon of choice in Landstill because you could use it under a Standstill.

Both cards are good though. There was a deck ITF (It's the Fear.) That deck was a control deck with Loam as draw-engine. Might be worth looking into.

BB
He's not running Standstill, though. He just called it "Loamstill" because it uses LftL to fill some of the card-advantage role Standstill played in Landstill decks.

KntrellCL
05-28-2013, 02:19 PM
So you modified land.dec, threw away chalice and added back brainstorm, StP, and Jace. Put a "new age" label on it and splash in irrelevant "still" in the name. I don't know if I should call this clever or just not giving credits/references correctly.

I find it funny that you have no graveyard hate, when you could have easily put a Bojuka Bog somewhere. Sure, Manaless dredge might not be tier 1, but Legacy is a format simply utilize graveyard as a resource or hate it.

I just dont understand where is the LANDS modification dude, you should think before posting. Im a Lands player and Lands is a deck with a lot of utility lands and ABUSE from them with cards like Exploration, Mox Diamond, Manabond and its strategy is to control the oponent's MANA DEVELOPMENT. Or any control deck with life from the loam it's lands?

Lands deck composition.... 36-43 lands (most of them utility lands) and 17-24 spells (4 loam, 10 mana acceleration effects, 3 tutors and usually 7 artifacts). Lands plays Chalice of the Void on SB to protect their GY from Surgical etc, and protect their Bobs from StP if the oponent kept some in MD. So tell me, where is the Lands deck here? for using wasteland and loam? Sorry, I didnt know this was an aggro loam too or an astral slide or CAL deck. Any loam based deck WILL a lot of the same cards of Lands.dec because is just the best way to use LFTL.

Also, Bojuka bog for what? You cant fetch it, is a sorcery speed ability and it comes into play tapped for BLACK mana. In any case I think GY hate is needed... Id rather to use Tormod's Crypt with Academy Ruins recursion, but tell me, what GY do you need to blow out? Any DRS shaman deck will use YOUR GY to feed it, against opossing Punishing? that's why Im using Wasteland to keep them out of Groves.... Reanimator? they can EOT entomb and then reanimate.... also, you are not going to draw or have bojuka bog in your opening hand by the time you need it. Against Goblins, Esper, Jund, what? I just dont get it.


I just dont apreciate when some random guy wants to give some negative comments and has no idea what's he's talking about. About the "still" part, I put there because the deck comes from Landstill base, which has it's name from STANDSTILL... card I think it doesnt get along with LFTL and terrible against Aggro MU, which is the archetype Im trying to beat with the deck. The same thing happened to Aggro loam, which has it's name for the first deck which use Seismic Assault + LFTL, but now is a mid range control deck.

twndomn
05-28-2013, 04:53 PM
Also, Bojuka bog for what? You cant fetch it, is a sorcery speed ability and it comes into play tapped for BLACK mana. In any case I think GY hate is needed... Id rather to use Tormod's Crypt with Academy Ruins recursion, but tell me, what GY do you need to blow out? Any DRS shaman deck will use YOUR GY to feed it, against opossing Punishing? that's why Im using Wasteland to keep them out of Groves.... Reanimator? they can EOT entomb and then reanimate.... also, you are not going to draw or have bojuka bog in your opening hand by the time you need it. Against Goblins, Esper, Jund, what? I just dont get it.



There is no point focusing on instant speed or sorcery speed, the point is you don't have MD method to deal with opponent's graveyard, period.

How much idea do you have, about your own deck? First, you don't even have Crypt in your MD. Even if you do have Crypt MD, you EOT intuition for Academy Ruin-LftL-Tormod Crypt, your opponent most likely would give you Loam, then you have to use Loam to play Ruin, then get crypt Next Turn. Now with Bog, you can EOT intuition for LftL-Wasteland-Bog, which will most likely net you a Wasteland in hand, you dredge to pick up Loam, play it to pick up Bog, play Bog on that exact Same Turn. I can then achieve the same repeatable trick by wasting my own Bog, Loam it back the next turn, not to mention people would do this intuition play to deny opponent's non-basic to begin with. The fact that Bog has stronger synergy with Loam than Crypt already warrants a spot, I don't see why you would even bother.

Upon second look, I'm sorry to inform you that there is nothing "new age" about your version, more like a "rehash" to me. Some say it could be rehash from Standstill or from land.dec, like I care.

FTW
05-28-2013, 06:58 PM
Ummm you can tutor Bojuka Bog easily.

Intuition for Loam + Bog + Tranquil Thicket. If they give you Thicket, cycle to dredge Loam, then cast Loam and drop Bog. If they give you Loam, cast to drop Bog. If they give you Bog, play Bog. Intuition at EOT obviously if you have 3 mana instead of 6.

Since you are playing Blue and Intuition, you could also run 1-2 Tolaria West. That would let you tutor for utility lands like Bojuka Bog or even just Tormod's Crypt.

There is no reason to play a deck around Loam just for the card advantage with fetchlands/cycling and not the toolbox too. They're LAND slots, lol.

EDIT: I see the guy above me already posted that. Touche.
Anyway, I have seen RUG control decks with Loam and Punishing Groves before. This is nothing new. I don't know why you are calling it "Loamstill" and not "RUG Loam" or "LandLoam". You replaced the (stand)"Still" with a "Loam", not the lands LOL. "Dreadstill" and "Deedstill" ditched the "Land" and kept the "still" because they kept Standstill and ditched the manlands for another engine. You're doing the opposite...

Poron
05-28-2013, 07:03 PM
please, explain why 0 Terminus and 0 Tops

preddi
05-30-2013, 06:11 AM
I really like decks like this, but my meta is infested with combo decks of all sorts. Is there any appropriate way to improve these matchups (mainly storm, Tin Fins and SnT)?

And this Deck needs more Forbid :>

The Treefolk Master
05-30-2013, 01:31 PM
You might find some useful ideas here (I have the deck currently built; but haven't tested it yet): http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_loam_control_with_da.html

Aggro_zombies
05-30-2013, 01:57 PM
I really like decks like this, but my meta is infested with combo decks of all sorts. Is there any appropriate way to improve these matchups (mainly storm, Tin Fins and SnT)?

And this Deck needs more Forbid :>
Not running cards like Forbid would be a start.

Running an actual clock capable of applying pressure within the first couple turns of the game would also help.