WotC's plan for Modern and Legacy

[twndomn]

It's no secret that WotC does not like Legacy. The explanation is simple, Legacy players don't buy a lot of cards. We buy decent singles when they are released, which often are as low as they can go. I am not suggesting Legacy players are cheap, it's just my observation of the market. As a result, Legacy is certainly not the cash cow format for WotC like Standard. The Reserved List is another obvious attempt to drop the support on Legacy staples, cut off supplies for Legacy to drive up card pricing. In the long run, Legacy attendance will drop, since players shy away due to entry barrier, when they see the price tags.

WotC certainly recognizes the pressure coming from players/customers, who love Magic but refuse to chase the constant-rotating bottomless-pit of Standard. Sure, Limited players will always do what they do, but what about us, the constructed lovers who don't want to update our decks every year? Modern seems to be the solution, except one problem, I didn't pick up my Goyf when they were cheap. When WotC tries to promote Modern and helps players who missed the boat on Modern staples by releasing Modern Masters, WotC inadvertently lowers the entry barrier for people who want to get into Legacy. While WotC expects people to use Goyf and Dark Confidant for Modern decks, some will inevitably spend some more money to pick up the Duals and Fetches as well.

For Legacy players like me, this is awesome. Some Legacy "collectors" sure will complain about the drop of their existing assets. However, in the long run, this Modern Masters would actually boost Legacy event's attendance by injecting more supplies into the market, introducing more players into the Legacy format.

Has this ever happen to you: You've been assured over the phone that a Legacy tournament would happen, since there would be enough players to attend. When you actually drove there, you found out otherwise. Of course, everything I've mentioned above has more to do with my wishful thinking than reality. Hopefully, with the increase in supply of Legacy staples and minimal number of hoarders, we start to see more Standard/Modern players coming to Legacy, and sustain the format for the long haul. While WotC might come up with new methods to push players into playing Modern from Legacy in the future, at least Modern Masters would benefit both, for now.

[swoop]

Every legacy player that I know buys cards, especially cards from recent sets, or just drafts for fun.

How many cards from recent sets were used for decks? A lot.
How many legacy players have side-decks for Modern? Quite a few.

Do legacy decks buy boosters? No, they don't unless they draft. They buy singles from people who open boosters.

[Koby]

It's no secret that WotC does not like Legacy. The explanation is simple, Legacy players don't buy a lot of cards. We buy decent singles when they are released, which often are as low as they can go. I am not suggesting Legacy players are cheap, it's just my observation of the market. As a result, Legacy is certainly not the cash cow format for WotC like Standard. The Reserved List is another obvious attempt to drop the support on Legacy staples, cut off supplies for Legacy to drive up card pricing. Hopefully, in the long run, Legacy attendance will drop since players shy away due to entry barrier when they see the price tags.

If WotC doesn't like Legacy, why do they continue to offer Grand Prix stops with the format?
While Legacy players don't buy a lot of cards, it's because most of the cards printed don't exceed the power level of the format's staples. Only so often do Deathrite Shamans show up.
The Reserve List pre-dates Legacy as a format, and is not an "obvious attempt to drop the support" of Legacy. It's a draconian policy that has long outlived its purpose, but for the time being remains in place. It certainly has no intent on keeping Legacy staples expensive.

Hopefully, "attendance at Legacy will drop" off? What exactly are you preaching?


WotC certainly recognizes the pressure coming from players/customers, who love Magic but refuse to chase the constant-rotating bottomless-pit of Standard. Sure, Limited players will always do what they do, but what about us, the constructed lovers who don't want to update our decks every year? Modern seems to be the solution, except one problem, I didn't pick up my Goyf when they were cheap. When WotC tries to promote Modern and helps players who missed the boat on Modern staples by releasing Modern Masters, WotC inadvertently lowers the entry barrier for people who want to get into Legacy. While WotC expects people to use Goyf and Dark Confidant for Modern decks, some will inevitably spend some more money to pick up the Duals and Fetches as well.

Wizards doesn't expect anything from its players, except to continue buying sealed product and attend tournaments. They don't need anything from Modern players moreover, since they get all their revenue from Limited and Standard (or close to 90% of it). The Eternal formats exist for the sole reason of providing a release valve on older cards. Its a placeholder for players to use the cards they collected in years gone by and still feel like an important member of the MTG community. Wizards gains not one cent from players buying fetchlands and duallands from 3rd party retailers. It's a shame that Goyf is so expensive as to be out of reach for so many players, but continued success at playing Constructed for affordable costs means watching the sets as they are released and riding the first wave of anticipation.


For Legacy players like me, this is awesome. Some Legacy "collectors" sure will complain about the drop of their existing assets. However, in the long run, this Modern Masters would actually boost Legacy event's attendance by injecting more supplies into the market, introducing more players into the Legacy format.

That is yet to be seen. While in theory, yes that will occur; practice has shown to move in more complex ways. Nothing is stopping said "collectors" from hoarding up the new supply and creating similar shortages with this new batch of singles.


Has this ever happen to you: You've been assured over the phone that a Legacy tournament would happen, since there would be enough players to attend. When you actually drove there, you found out otherwise.

No. I try to contact the store owner if I'm unsure a tournament will fire. Relying on players will lead to disappointment in my experience.


Of course, everything I've mentioned above has more to do with my wishful thinking than reality. Hopefully, with the increase in supply of Legacy staples and minimal number of hoarders, we start to see more Standard/Modern players coming to Legacy, and sustain the format for the long haul. While WotC might come up with new methods to push players into playing Modern from Legacy in the future, at least Modern Masters would benefit both, for now.

Cool story, bro.

[twndomn]

If WotC doesn't like Legacy, why do they continue to offer Grand Prix stops with the format?
While Legacy players don't buy a lot of cards, it's because most of the cards printed don't exceed the power level of the format's staples. Only so often do Deathrite Shamans show up.
The Reserve List pre-dates Legacy as a format, and is not an "obvious attempt to drop the support" of Legacy. It's a draconian policy that has long outlived its purpose, but for the time being remains in place. It certainly has no intent on keeping Legacy staples expensive.


Because there is demand to ask WotC to do so. Yes, there's GP Legacy, but GenCon doesn't have Legacy this year, makes you wonder if motivation is to quiet Legacy players' compliant or WotC's attempt to generate profit.

How would you know what the real intent of Reserved List or WotC for that matter is? Do you work for WotC or something?



Wizards doesn't expect anything from its players, except to continue buying sealed product and attend tournaments. They don't need anything from Modern players moreover, since they get all their revenue from Limited and Standard (or close to 90% of it).

Which supports my opening paragraph, WotC does not want to support Legacy, why would WotC care about Legacy players' complaints, when this group is less than 10% of WotC's profit portfolio?

Corporations are profit-driven by nature. When the complaints are loud enough, they become demand, and demand can be fulfilled as WotC earns profit; in this case, it's Modern Masters.

[Julian23]

Most successful Legacy players in my area actually buy a lot of cards, sometimes even 1-2 displays when a new set comes out. One guy recently even got himself 5 displays. The reasoning behind this was simple: you start doing really well in tournaments, especially GPs. You start making money of very big Legacy tournaments. You want more. You start playing Modern, one of us even went to the finals of a Modern GP. You want more. You also start playing Standard and even do well there.

[(nameless one)]

I don't play Standard but I do Draft when I get a chance.

So I am still buying sealed products from them.

[Higgs]

Plans for Legacy: Ignore until it dies
Plans for Modern: Milk until it bleeds

As an eternal player I don't buy sealed product and even if were to play Modern I wouldn't buy sealed product either. The reason is when a new set comes out unless it's full of future eternal staples you don't get value for your money. I don't play Standard so I don't know what to do with all that junk I open from boosters. The only sealed product I'll be opening is Modern Masters because it's sort of a cube and drafting looks fun. Plus I can still take away useful cards from a fun draft. It's win-win.

[swoop]

You should take atleast 2 aspirins before you draft MM.

[Finn]

I'm sure I have seen this thread before. The truth is that none of us know. Wotc probably don't know.

[(nameless one)]

You should take atleast 2 aspirins before you draft MM.

The Source definitely needs a "like" button.

[Lemnear]

Isn't it obvious that with the release of Power to MODO WotC sends a clear signal for the Future of the older eternal formats? If they can't/do not want to reprint the reserved list cards in physical form they flood the online platform with them to use the self-created loophole in the RL while keeping the financial entry-barrier for potential interested players far below the buy-in for the physical alternative.

The message for players is a clear decision to pass on the former social aspect of playing the game with the physical medium and live opponents in favor of a cheaper experience with a first-hand-controled market in front of a screen which however directly rivals existing and Future Online Games which is a hilarious uphill battle for M:TG imo

[Esper3k]

Because there is demand to ask WotC to do so. Yes, there's GP Legacy, but GenCon doesn't have Legacy this year, makes you wonder if motivation is to quiet Legacy players' compliant or WotC's attempt to generate profit.

While Vintage/Legacy Champs aren't at GenCon this year, there are still plenty of Legacy tournaments for some pretty nice prices (Uncut AQ sheets, etc.).

[Dan Turner]

Saying legacy players don't buy sealed product is just talking out your ass.

A majority of Legacy players play sealed/draft as well as play Modern. Heck I will even play standard sometimes if I just have to get my fix.

I pretty much play everything from Kitchen table to Vintage. I am primarily a Legacy player but I buy playsets of each set when they come out.

Buying open product of new sets is supporting wizards since someone had to open that product to get the cards, I always figure when I buy a playset of new sets it is about a case worth of cards I am getting without the trouble of trading off my extras for the few I need to finish a playset.

[twndomn]

Saying legacy players don't buy sealed product is just talking out your ass.

A majority of Legacy players play sealed/draft as well as play Modern. Heck I will even play standard sometimes if I just have to get my fix.

I pretty much play everything from Kitchen table to Vintage. I am primarily a Legacy player but I buy playsets of each set when they come out.

Buying open product of new sets is supporting wizards since someone had to open that product to get the cards, I always figure when I buy a playset of new sets it is about a case worth of cards I am getting without the trouble of trading off my extras for the few I need to finish a playset.

And how many of you, or how many people around you, actually play Legacy, Modern, Sealed, Draft, and purchasing playsets all at the same time? Sounds like you are an individual who value collectible hobbies more so than the others. Using yourself as an example doesn't always work. Buying open product is Not supporting Wizards, it's supporting your LGS. Open product's value is not decided by Wizards, it's arbitrary. As far as WotC is concerned, it does Not gain a cent from secondary collectible market, just as Koby has described.


Isn't it obvious that with the release of Power to MODO WotC sends a clear signal for the Future of the older eternal formats? If they can't/do not want to reprint the reserved list cards in physical form they flood the online platform with them to use the self-created loophole in the RL while keeping the financial entry-barrier for potential interested players far below the buy-in for the physical alternative.

The message for players is a clear decision to pass on the former social aspect of playing the game with the physical medium and live opponents in favor of a cheaper experience with a first-hand-controled market in front of a screen which however directly rivals existing and Future Online Games which is a hilarious uphill battle for M:TG imo

Above is very possible.

[socialite]

Insert more whining about the reserve list.

[Richard Cheese]

I think the assumption that WotC doesn't like Legacy is just silly. They've been pretty clear that they don't test new product in eternal formats, but they keep an eye on the community for managing the banned/restricted lists (see MM). They've also given us some real gems in special sets like Commander and Planechase, because guess what? Eternal formats can drive sales! Granted a lot of Legacy/Vintage/EDH folks pick their playsets up online rather than opening product, but someone had to open that product for things to be available on ebay/SCG/MKM/etc. in the first place. Personally, I play sealed events for any set that has more than a couple cards I'm interested in, especially if speculation has prices all jacked up.

[MGB]

Isn't it obvious that with the release of Power to MODO WotC sends a clear signal for the Future of the older eternal formats? If they can't/do not want to reprint the reserved list cards in physical form they flood the online platform with them to use the self-created loophole in the RL while keeping the financial entry-barrier for potential interested players far below the buy-in for the physical alternative.

The message for players is a clear decision to pass on the former social aspect of playing the game with the physical medium and live opponents in favor of a cheaper experience with a first-hand-controled market in front of a screen which however directly rivals existing and Future Online Games which is a hilarious uphill battle for M:TG imo

But comparing M:tG to other types of online games is like comparing apples to oranges. The same player who likes awesome-gfx fast-gameplay FPS games might not ever play a slower, strategic card game like Magic, and vice versa for the Magic player.

[Dan Turner]

And how many of you, or how many people around you, actually play Legacy, Modern, Sealed, Draft, and purchasing playsets all at the same time? Sounds like you are an individual who value collectible hobbies more so than the others. Using yourself as an example doesn't always work. Buying open product is Not supporting Wizards, it's supporting your LGS. Open product's value is not decided by Wizards, it's arbitrary. As far as WotC is concerned, it does Not gain a cent from secondary collectible market, just as Koby has described.



Above is very possible.

Actually my LGS has to open product to get the singles. Every rare the sell from a new set is a pack wizards sold. Actually we have everything from vintage on going on at least twice a month.

[r3dd09]

Actually my LGS has to open product to get the singles. Every rare the sell from a new set is a pack wizards sold. Actually we have everything from vintage on going on at least twice a month.

Vintage and Legacy twice a month? I might have to move...

[H]

Vintage and Legacy twice a month? I might have to move...

We run Legacy every Friday and Vintage at least once a month. We all buy some amount of sealed product, even if it is only a quarter of a box. Others of us do buy boxes, since we play other formats too, like EDH and now getting into Modern (which will probably replace a Legacy FNM here once in a while). This is in what I would sort of consider the middle of nowhere, considering I moved here (Louisiana) from New York.