[Deck] 8Tezz.dec - UB Tezzeret

[Ellomdian]

You dont have to enchant the same thing that you need to have eight copies of, am I reading this right? Enchant something that they cant Decay, go Thopter crazy, win?

Yessir, you are reading that correctly. I should have been clearer in my post, since the card is brand spankin' new and all. You can enchant one of your durable artifact lands, make a bunch of thopters, and win before they even see combat. It presents the same kind of threat as a Tezz ultimate under those conditions, but with a much harder to answer wincon. Also, if you have someone under a bridge, you are setting up a pretty durable wincon outside of any other cards (even if it's going to take some turns.)

Look, I'm not saying that you aren't in a good board position if you are cranking out thopters. But there are an awful lot of games where when I stabilize the board, my opponent is at 20+, and unless I have the Tezz one-shot set up, it's going to take 2-3 turns of combat to get there.

[Shamaatae]

Having a super hard time nailing my 75 with this deck. Some questions:
(im playing grixis)

How important is the 2nd island? w/o blood moon?
I dont play FoW, is 2 daretti + 1 explosives enough for problem permanents?

Most important one:
How are the matchups?

[TTX]

I've moved into Tezzerator because of how much I dislike the BR Reanimator deck everywhere online.
I don't really like FoW or Thopter/Sword combo, so I made use of the main deck Leyline of the Void as a nerf agent
and win condition.
What do you guys think of this list?

4 Baleful Strix

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
3 Dack Fayden
2 Dimir Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Helm of Obedience
2 Transmute Artifact
1 Nether Void
1 Crucible of Worlds

1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
1 City of Traitors
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn

SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1 The Abyss
SB: 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Witchbane Orb
SB: 2 Torpor Orb
SB: 2 Lodestone Golem
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives

[NetterMizuno]

Hello! I'm starting to build legacy deck that i have tested months in xmage (went trough almost all the top tier deck in last 5 months or so play testing) and this one has stuck with me the most. Here is the list i am currently using. no abyss or chain as those are REALLY expensive and i'm even hesitant of getting duals at first as they are whopping 350€ for UG D: (student bla bla bla poor bla bla bla finland bla bla bla)

Land (24)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Badlands
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Inventors' Fair
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Swamp
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Wasteland

Artifact (16)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Mox Diamond
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
3x Thopter Foundry

Planeswalker (10)
2x Dack Fayden
2x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Sorcery (2)
2x Transmute Artifact

Creature (8)
4x Baleful Strix
3x Glint-Nest Crane
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation

Sideboard (15)
2x Blood Moon
1x Cursed Totem
1x Damnation
1x Engineered Plague
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Helm of Obedience
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2x Pithing Needle
1x Trinisphere

Any toughts and comments and tips :3

[bruizar]

I wanted to talk about Metallic Mimic.

Metallic Mimic combos with Animation Module in a similar fashion as Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek. However, it also combos brilliantly with Glen Elendra Archmage. For that reason, I've been thinking this could be slotted into UB Tezzeret.

The mana cost should not be a problem since Padeem, Consul of Innovation, Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek are played.

[Navsi]

I wanted to talk about Metallic Mimic.

Metallic Mimic combos with Animation Module in a similar fashion as Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek. However, it also combos brilliantly with Glen Elendra Archmage. For that reason, I've been thinking this could be slotted into UB Tezzeret.

The mana cost should not be a problem since Padeem, Consul of Innovation, Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek are played.

Mimic only combos with Animation Module if you have a way of making a Servo / applying a +1/+1 counter each turn to start the chain, unless you want to pay 3 mana every turn to get it started. It also means your combo pieces are vulnerable to Swords, Terminus, Chalice@1, Deathrite and Lightning Bolt (and now Push). Remember that Glen Elendra Archmage really costs 5 mana not 4, since you'd need to hold up a blue source to get anything out of her.

[Poron]

Overall Foundry combo only really needs Foundry out.

Sword can be also in the graveyard which means you can always Transmute it into whatever you need with 0 impact to your board state

[Ephemeron]

Overall Foundry combo only really needs Foundry out.

Sword can be also in the graveyard which means you can always Transmute it into whatever you need with 0 impact to your board state

This. Foundry is alright on its own, at the very least having a foundry and a couple of artifacts means someone needs to think twice before attacking with a Pyromancer or a delver or whatever.

Sword also has a ton of synergy with Dack and new Daretti since having it in the graveyard isn't a problem. It also triggers when you play a Baleful Strix, which is pretty nice.

I don't know what you could possibly cut out of the deck to put in Metallic Mimic and Animation Module, the deck is already pretty tight between mana rocks and planeswalkers and thopter/sword. I guess you could play that other combo in place of thopter sword but that just seems strictly worse.

[bruizar]

This. Foundry is alright on its own, at the very least having a foundry and a couple of artifacts means someone needs to think twice before attacking with a Pyromancer or a delver or whatever.

Sword also has a ton of synergy with Dack and new Daretti since having it in the graveyard isn't a problem. It also triggers when you play a Baleful Strix, which is pretty nice.

I don't know what you could possibly cut out of the deck to put in Metallic Mimic and Animation Module, the deck is already pretty tight between mana rocks and planeswalkers and thopter/sword. I guess you could play that other combo in place of thopter sword but that just seems strictly worse.

Well, not strictly worst, just different. I understand all these points for thopter foundry and sword of the meek, but it seems like people are glancing over what the new combo offers. Glen Elendra Archmage shuts down all removal spells, combo and burn (Price of Progress being the big one here) and blocks creatures, including delver of secrets without dying. It is essentially a chalice of the void on steroids. Animation Module is shut off by Chalice of the Void for 1 but you play transmute artifact so that's not a real issue. I think the main reason not to run it in tezz is because not enough creatures come into play with a +1/+1 counter on it. If cards like Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer and Arcbound Ravager would be in the deck, it would be a different story. I do think that the Glen Elendra combo is powerful enough to test it (Perhaps multiple Glen Elendra's and a singleton Mimic/Module).

[Ephemeron]

Glen-Elendra Archmage gets wrecked by Deathrite Shaman though. I certainly don't want to stifle innovation or anything, but DRS is the most played creature in the format by a longshot, so any slow grindy combo that gets neutered by it is kinda a non-starter in my eyes. Getting Glen-Elendra and metallic mimic together in time against combo also seems iffy, since you'd need mana acceleration and you'd pretty much have to play 4 GEA to have a chance of finding one in time against combo since the deck doesn't have any cantrips (other than Dack looting). Against burn, I'd rather have Thopter Sword because it's faster to put together and it gains you life.

[Darkenslight]

Glen-Elendra Archmage gets wrecked by Deathrite Shaman though. I certainly don't want to stifle innovation or anything, but DRS is the most played creature in the format by a longshot, so any slow grindy combo that gets neutered by it is kinda a non-starter in my eyes. Getting Glen-Elendra and metallic mimic together in time against combo also seems iffy, since you'd need mana acceleration and you'd pretty much have to play 4 GEA to have a chance of finding one in time against combo since the deck doesn't have any cantrips (other than Dack looting). Against burn, I'd rather have Thopter Sword because it's faster to put together and it gains you life.

That's fair. However, this can be resolved with the usual suspect Pithing Needle. I suspect that it largely depends unpon whether your meta plays a lot of hate like that. It's still a somewhat potent idea to have somewhere in the deck, though.

[JackaBo]

If you want to counter spells every turn run null brooch. Combos with bridge as well.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

[a tribe called trest]

Extreme long time lurker, just finally decided to get around to signing up. Its been quite some time since anyone mentioned a white splash, and I figured I would share a list I've been having success with. To be clear, I'm not looking at white as a 3rd color, but rather as a 4th color. The greed is real. It started simply as me adding a tundra so I could support containment priests in the sideboard because sneak and show is miserable. It sort of morphed into a much different animal from there.

Lands 24

Academy Ruins x1
Ancient Tomb x4
Badlands x1
Island x2
Polluted Delta x4
Scalding Tarn x2
Swamp x1
Tundra x1
Underground Sea x3
Volcanic Island x2
Wasteland x3

Artifacts 22

Chalice of the Void x4
Mox Diamond x4
Thopter Foundry x4
Baleful Strix x4
Sword of the Meek x3
Dimir Signet x2
Ensnaring Bridge x1

Planeswalkers 8

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas x4
Dack Fayden x4


Spells 6

Force of Will x4
Transmute Artifact x2



Sideboard 15

Leyline of the Void x4
The Abyss x2
Toxic Deluge x2
Vindicate x2
Breya, Etherium Shaper x1
Ethersworn Canonist x2
Helm Of Obedience x1
Ensnaring Bridge x1



My general musings/findings have been that the canonists have been great. Have had a much easier time resolving them against combo than I ever did Lodestone Golem. Also, transmuting extraneous chalices and mana rocks for them is much easier than going up to lodestone in the early game when you really want it. Initially I was running two containment priests, but they were proving too unrelieable unless I played 3. At that point it was simply too much space to dedicate to them.

The spice has been the vindicates. They replaced 2 copies of new Daretti, and I haven't looked back. I was finding too many games where i'd get only 1 activation out of the daretti anyway, so the flexibility of vindicate was welcomed. I no longer feel miles behind an opponent that resolves a sylvan library or a jace. The loss of life from Anguished Unmaking proved too problematic in a deck with tombs and fetches to want the instant speed upgrade. Breya hasnt been anything special, but i've liked that shes both a blue card for force, and a transmute target for the combo matchups.

Moving forward, I would maybe consider adding another tundra and removing the badlands to support a supreme verdict if these TNN decks keep prospering. I'm still getting steamrolled by Sneak and Show and Burn, but the vindicates have helped with my DNT matchup. If anyone is looking to shake up their deck a bit, give it a shot. I'm also all ears for any potential cards i could be overlooking. Cheers.

[sdematt]

Isn't there some creature that's has "1BW+ Tap: Vindicate"? I think it's from Shards or something.

I think if you want to improve Sneak and Show, the easiest way is to play more Bridges, and just play Humility and Enlightened Tutor. Humility plays well with Thopter Foundry, and Tezz's +1.

Edit: I was thinking of Ethersworn Adjudicator. Still seems okay ;)

[a tribe called trest]

Isn't there some creature that's has "1BW+ Tap: Vindicate"? I think it's from Shards or something.

I think if you want to improve Sneak and Show, the easiest way is to play more Bridges, and just play Humility and Enlightened Tutor. Humility plays well with Thopter Foundry, and Tezz's +1.

Edit: I was thinking of Ethersworn Adjudicator. Still seems okay ;)

The adjudicator is pretty sweet, but unfortunately a huge mana sink.

Humility is definitely interesting. Has value against Eldrazi/dnt too. Ill probably bump the badlands for a 2nd tundra and give it a shot in the board.

[EunB]

I agree with Matt, if you're having trouble with Sneak, just play more Ensnaring Bridge. It does everything the deck wants vs that and many other MUs. You should have 4 Leyline for any GY hate so Priest seems unnecessary.

[Poron]

I agree with Matt, if you're having trouble with Sneak, just play more Ensnaring Bridge. It does everything the deck wants vs that and many other MUs. You should have 4 Leyline for any GY hate so Priest seems unnecessary.

Bridge is great but SnS has 4 Griselbrand that will let him 14 on the spot to find his removal.

Without a Padeem I wouldn't rely on it too much

[hymnyou]

Bridge is great but SnS has 4 Griselbrand that will let him 14 on the spot to find his removal.

Without a Padeem I wouldn't rely on it too much

Show and ape stock lists don't really run non-creature removal. Usually only run 1 echoing truth or 1 wipeaway for removal post board.

[nedleeds]

I play 4 Bridge and have since TKS gained traction, I'm at least 10-0 vs. Sneak and Show in comp REL matches since then. That deck is a bye with Tezzeret. Eldrazi can always nut you if you are on the draw but I dont ever recall losing against it with 4 Bridge Tezz.

[a tribe called trest]

I play 4 Bridge and have since TKS gained traction, I'm at least 10-0 vs. Sneak and Show in comp REL matches since then. That deck is a bye with Tezzeret. Eldrazi can always nut you if you are on the draw but I dont ever recall losing against it with 4 Bridge Tezz.


How many other matchups are you keeping the 4 bridges in against post board? I'm definitely skimping on them by only running 2 in the 75, but felt like i was boarding some number of them out all the time when i ran 4.

[sdematt]

You can also run the greedy Forcefield to say "Fuck you" to Griselbrand attacks. Bridge if your horse and buys you a few turns for sure. Once you hit any gas, you're basically golden. They have 14 cards, and then cantrips, to kill your Bridges, all while you're throwing down lockpieces or setting up Thopters, or Needling Sneak.

But again, Humility just wrecks that deck. You could just go totally Esper and run 2x Humility out of the board to replace Abyss and stuff. OR, run 4 and gank them off the Show and Tell itself. Spicy AF.

-Matt

[Ellomdian]

If you want to counter spells every turn run null brooch. Combos with bridge as well.


I still have 1x Brooch in the board for 'random_weird_legacy.dec', where a simple lock is enough to deal with cards I haven't read from Alliances or something. It's kind of the silver-iest of silver bullets, but it's damn effective at what it does.


How many other matchups are you keeping the 4 bridges in against post board? I'm definitely skimping on them by only running 2 in the 75, but felt like i was boarding some number of them out all the time when i ran 4.

I'm perfectly happy running 3 between the 75 (1 main 2 side right now) and I can see an argument for getting the 4th one in there if you are playing against enough random aggro. But 4 main? That's... heavy. Like, it's a straight dead card in most control matchups. It's only benefit in multiples is durability against removal, and if you can't dump your hand against early aggro, you are still going to be dead.

[nedleeds]

How many other matchups are you keeping the 4 bridges in against post board? I'm definitely skimping on them by only running 2 in the 75, but felt like i was boarding some number of them out all the time when i ran 4.

Of the popular netdecks

I keep 4 in versus Elves or any Tarmogoyf deck. Versus any Equipment deck I may shave a couple, I essentially want it on my 4th or 5th turn. I board all but one out versus Miracles assuming there are some number of Mentors or SCMs lurking. Something like Infect I probably keep 1 in as well.

Death and Taxes presents a problem, you want a bridge but the mana denial and Thalia pressures your ability to empty your hand (or even cast the Bridge).

[hoernchen]

I started to build Tezzeret some time ago and ended up with this list:
Land (23)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Inventors' Fare
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
3x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Volcanic Island
2x Wasteland

Artifact (19)
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Dimir Signet
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Mox Diamond
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry

Planeswalker (8)
2x Dack Fayden
1x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Creature (4)
4x Baleful Strix

Instant (4)
4x Force of Will

Sorcery (2)
2x Transmute Artifact

Sideboard (15)
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Dread of Night
1x Pyroclasm
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Trinisphere
1x Blood Moon
2x Lodestone Golem
1x The Abyss
3x Leyline of the Void
1x Helm of Obedience

Can you give me some thoughts about it? My Meta is quite full of Death and Taxes, that is why I play a dread of night.

[a tribe called trest]

Just make sure to look them squarely in the eye when you cast virtue's ruin. Also has relevance against teeg.


Anyone ever have any experience trying treachery? Stole a knight of the reliquary with it the other night in an otherwise unwinnable game. Small sample size is small.

[hoernchen]

Just make sure to look them squarely in the eye when you cast virtue's ruin. Also has relevance against teeg.


Anyone ever have any experience trying treachery? Stole a knight of the reliquary with it the other night in an otherwise unwinnable game. Small sample size is small.


Virtue's ruin is a funny idea, I guess they would not believe their eyes. But I chose Dread of night as a 1 Mana Spell against them, since sometimes it gets really hard to go through their mana denial plan. Else there are packed 1 Pyroclasm and 2 Toxic Deluge in the SB. I was even thinking of making a 1/1 split with Damnation for paying less life ...

[TTX]

I've been enjoying a new list making use of Ballista.
I'd like to find a way to squeeze in some Wastelands. Any ideas?


// 60 Maindeck
// 17 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
4 Dimir Signet
2 Talisman of Dominance

// 9 Creature
4 Baleful Strix
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
4 Walking Ballista

// 1 Enchantment
1 The Abyss

// 3 Instant
3 Force of Will

// 22 Land
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Inventors' Fair
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of Whispers
2 Seat of the Synod

// 6 Planeswalker
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Tezzeret the Seeker

// 2 Sorcery
2 Transmute Artifact


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Helm of Obedience

// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Lodestone Golem

// 5 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Dread of Night

// 2 Instant
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Misdirection

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Yahenni's Expertise

[gibsonjunkie]

Good morning everyone! I work nights so the last week or so I've been reading all 104 pages of this thread looking for tech and tips on the deck, and it's been really useful. About three weeks ago, I finished my first (slightly suboptimal, but fully playable!) Legacy deck.

Link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-09-15-tezzerator/

Sorry for not hard posting the list here, using this on mobile is a pain.

My playgroup has Lands, various BGx variants, D&T, Elves, and a few other tier 1/2 decks. Oddly enough, nobody really plays Miracles. I absolutely adore Daretti maindeck, but I'm beginning to wonder if my one-ofs are better off in the sideboard. Specifically Ratchet Bomb and Lodestone Golem are ones I'm iffy on. I think Pithing Needle is great, especially in my meta where it nearly always hits something game 1.

A card I think might be worth some consideration is Metallic Rebuke. Being able to tap a Chalice or a Sword or Thopter Foundry and hold up a usually-one-cost Mana Leak seems really good, but I haven't had the opportunity to test it out yet.

Thanks for reading!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Wake]

Here's me giving back to the community for once :D

I 5-0ed FNM last night with this:


Artifact (21)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Coercive Portal
4x Dimir Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Izzet Signet
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundry

Sorcery (2)
2x Transmute Artifact

Land (21)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
2x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Seat of the Synod
3x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island

Instant (4)
4x Force of Will

Planeswalker (12)
4x Dack Fayden
1x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Sideboard (15)
3 Sphere of Resistence
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
Witchbane Orb
2 Toxic Deluge
3 misdirection
1x Welding Jar

The biggest thing I've got my eye on is the welding jar, but it just makes me laugh, and Bridge is vulnerable to Abrupt Decay so I bring it in vs GBX decks where it not only protects against Abrupt Decay but also helps empty my hand quicker. I could see it being a 3rd Deluge, a 4th Misdirection (another good way to protect Bridge), or a 4th Sphere.

Shout outs to Logan for putting me on the deck, it's been gas!

[JackHighHeel]

Hey guys, first post in the Forum, although I am a long time Lurker :smile:

So I have been playing Miracles, Lands and some BUG Decks for a long time now - for the last few smaller tournaments I was playing a Tezz list which is basically a mixture between the last few posted ones. I think the deck is pure gold in a Miracles, Reanimator and Burn heavy meta. The ability to really support 4 Leylines in the SB made me love this deck. For some reasons the hardest common MU for me turned out to be any BUG Leovold or TNN decks (although Leovold is not the thread for us, since we do not play targeting spells/abilities at all) and Elves with recurring Reclamation Sage. So how does you plan against those decks look like? Should i play more Engineered Plague?

I play 1 Padeem main and one in my SB, as he is pretty strong against Decay.deck. On the other hand, he disrupts our Bridge plan. I have thought about cutting down to one bridge main, and play more Padeem instead. I am almost always happy when i draw him. What are your experiences?

[gibsonjunkie]

I don't see how Padeem disrupts the Bridge plan?

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[filln]

I don't see how Padeem disrupts the Bridge plan?

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Padeem draws you cards, which could theoretically be a problem if you can't deploy your hand fast enough.

[bruizar]

Here's me giving back to the community for once :D

I 5-0ed FNM last night with this:


Artifact (21)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Coercive Portal
4x Dimir Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Izzet Signet
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundry

Sorcery (2)
2x Transmute Artifact

Land (21)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
2x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Seat of the Synod
3x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island

Instant (4)
4x Force of Will

Planeswalker (12)
4x Dack Fayden
1x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Sideboard (15)
3 Sphere of Resistence
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
Witchbane Orb
2 Toxic Deluge
3 misdirection
1x Welding Jar

The biggest thing I've got my eye on is the welding jar, but it just makes me laugh, and Bridge is vulnerable to Abrupt Decay so I bring it in vs GBX decks where it not only protects against Abrupt Decay but also helps empty my hand quicker. I could see it being a 3rd Deluge, a 4th Misdirection (another good way to protect Bridge), or a 4th Sphere.

Shout outs to Logan for putting me on the deck, it's been gas!

-1 Dack Fayden
+1 Oath of Jace?

[hoernchen]

-1 Dack Fayden
+1 Oath of Jace?

Oath of Jace sounds quite interesting. Anyone already tried it?

[gibsonjunkie]

Padeem draws you cards, which could theoretically be a problem if you can't deploy your hand fast enough.
Fair enough.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[hoernchen]

I put together a litle SB plan for the most common MUs I am facing in my LGS. What do you think guys, any comments or suggestions?
Land (23)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Badlands
1x City of Traitors
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Inventors' Fare
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Volcanic Island
2x Wasteland

Artifact (18)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
2x Dimir Signet
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Crucible of Worlds

Planeswalker (8)
2x Dack Fayden
1x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

Creature (4)
4x Baleful Strix

Instant (4)
4x Force of Will

Sorcery (2)
2x Transmute Artifact

Enchantement (1)
1x The Abyss


Sideboard (15)
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pyroclasm
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Trinisphere
2x Blood Moon
2x Lodestone Golem
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Slaughter Games

/// Sideboard ///
MIRACELS
Out:
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x The Abyss
In:
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Trinisphere

BUG Midrange
Out:
4x Force of Will
In:
2x Blood Moon
2x Toxic Deluge

D&T
Out:
4x Force of Will
In:
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pyroclasm
2x Toxic Deluge

DELVER
Out:
1x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
4x Force of Will
1x The Abyss
In:
1x Pyroclasm
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Trinisphere
2x Blood Moon

SNEAK & SHOW
Out:
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Sword of the Meek
1x Thopter Foundry
In:
1x Trinisphere
2x Lodestone Golem

LANDS
Out:
4x Force of Will
1x The Abyss
In:
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Helm of Obedience

ELVES
Out:
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
1x The Abyss
In:
1x Pyroclasm
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Trinisphere

STORM
Out:
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x The Abyss
1x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
In:
1x Trinisphere
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Slaughter Games

FOOD CHAIN/ALUREN
Out:
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
In:
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Blood Moon
1x Slaughter Games

[Sisyphos]

Don't have enough time to go through every matchup you listed, just going to adress two things that jump out to me.



MIRACELS
Out:
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x The Abyss
In:
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Trinisphere


I usually side in Helm against Miracles even in game 2, for sure in game 3 if they show me Rest in Peace. Same goes for most other decks that bring in Rest in Peace.



STORM
Out:
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x The Abyss
1x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
In:
1x Trinisphere
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Slaughter Games


When I developed the use of Helm/Leyline in the board of Tezzeret decks, one of my main concerns was increasing the amount of T0 interaction with Storm especially when you are on the draw. Leyline denies a lot of lines to win for Storm and is immune to the most common hate (Decay) and even their new tech against Chalice decks (Culling Scales) whilst giving you a win condition that rivals Storm in speed. Leaving Leyline/Helm in the board and keeping cards like Daretti (totally dead in the matchup), the full five pieces of ThopterSword (much too slow in the matchup) and the playset of Strix makes no sense to me.

[Ephemeron]

Don't have enough time to go through every matchup you listed, just going to adress two things that jump out to me.



I usually side in Helm against Miracles even in game 2, for sure in game 3 if they show me Rest in Peace. Same goes for most other decks that bring in Rest in Peace.



When I developed the use of Helm/Leyline in the board of Tezzeret decks, one of my main concerns was increasing the amount of T0 interaction with Storm especially when you are on the draw. Leyline denies a lot of lines to win for Storm and is immune to the most common hate (Decay) and even their new tech against Chalice decks (Culling Scales) whilst giving you a win condition that rivals Storm in speed. Leaving Leyline/Helm in the board and keeping cards like Daretti (totally dead in the matchup), the full five pieces of ThopterSword (much too slow in the matchup) and the playset of Strix makes no sense to me.

I agree with all of this. Leyline is a solid card against Storm in general (when I play 4c Loam I always board it in and it definitely slows them down and is hard for them to get rid of). I've also won with Helm and no Leyline against storm. Chalice (especially multiple chalices) can lock them out pretty good and I've had games where I've just activated Helm over 7 or so turns and just milled them out. The combo is definitely worth bringing in.

The point on RIP is also good. Getting the ol' reverse Helm kill is amazing. It's kinda fallen out of favor in Miracles since they ride Snapcaster so hard these days, but it's still around in DnT so it could be worth your time to bring it in against them.

[hoernchen]

Thank you a lot for the thoughts put in my SB plan. I updated now the two MUs:
STORM
Out:
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x The Abyss
1x Jace, the Mind Sculpture
1x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2x Thopter Foundry
2x Sword of the Meek
In:
1x Trinisphere
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Slaughter Games
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Helm of Obedience

MIRACELS
Out:
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x The Abyss
1x Helm of Obedience
In:
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Trinisphere
1x Thopter Foundry

[Sisyphos]

Finally got around to trying out a list with Walking Ballista for a couple of matches. Well... color me impressed. It is obviously dead against Storm, but single-handedly won me games against a BUG deck, absolutely destroyed DnT and even against Miracles, where I was skeptical about its impact, it did a very good job of pressuring Jace and killing Cliques and even Mentors. Definitely going to try it out further. I'm also thinking about taking a page out of Vintage Ravager Shop lists and using a build playing Ravager/Ballista/Hangarback.

[Rampart]

Finally got around to trying out a list with Walking Ballista for a couple of matches. Well... color me impressed. It is obviously dead against Storm, but single-handedly won me games against a BUG deck, absolutely destroyed DnT and even against Miracles, where I was skeptical about its impact, it did a very good job of pressuring Jace and killing Cliques and even Mentors. Definitely going to try it out further. I'm also thinking about taking a page out of Vintage Ravager Shop lists and using a build playing Ravager/Ballista/Hangarback.

What is your list? Always interested in how people shoehorned them into the deck.

[Sisyphos]

What is your list? Always interested in how people shoehorned them into the deck.

I played the list posted here (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-tailoring-removal-a4bc46de-b786-44b3-b79d-983a0455e00b) with some very minor changes. Played a second City of Traitors instead of the second Inventors' Fair, switched from two Bridges main and two Trinispheres in the board to one of each main and one of each in the board, played one Mox Opal instead of the sixth mana rock (another thing I wanted to try out for quite some time) and made some changes to the board based on my local metagame.

[sdematt]

I played the list posted here (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-tailoring-removal-a4bc46de-b786-44b3-b79d-983a0455e00b) with some very minor changes. Played a second City of Traitors instead of the second Inventors' Fair, switched from two Bridges main and two Trinispheres in the board to one of each main and one of each in the board, played one Mox Opal instead of the sixth mana rock (another thing I wanted to try out for quite some time) and made some changes to the board based on my local metagame.

Please tell me we're moving to some Trinket Mage action. Fuck yes.

[hoernchen]

Anyone spent some attention to the Tezzeret list making 2nd place at KMC, spoiled on MTG Goldfish? What do you guys think of not playing FoW at all?

[Sisyphos]

Anyone spent some attention to the Tezzeret list making 2nd place at KMC, spoiled on MTG Goldfish? What do you guys think of not playing FoW at all?

It is the first UBr list I've seen with such a setup, but playing Helm/Leyline main and cutting FoW is nothing new. Some U/B lists have been doing so since 2014 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26246-Deck-8Tezz-dec-UB-Tezzeret&p=837781&viewfull=1#post837781). Though I would never run only 3 Leyline main. If you want to go deep enough to run the combo main, go all the way to make it more likely to have it as soon as possible, especially when in UBr you have Dack to pitch excess copies.

I have never seen FoW as essential to the deck. It is replacable. The deck is not really good at coming back from 2-1ing itself, so FoW is for emergency use only. Especially in a version running Helm/Leyline main or an increased number of artifacts, you also run the risk of simply having it stuck in your hand as you run very few blue cards to pitch. So depending on the list you're running, FoW is actually worse than other options like Flusterstorm or Mindbreak Trap.

[Ephemeron]

Anyone spent some attention to the Tezzeret list making 2nd place at KMC, spoiled on MTG Goldfish? What do you guys think of not playing FoW at all?

I haven't played FoW in the deck (grixis for me) for some time and I haven't missed it a bit. You only really want FoW to stop a combo deck that's about to kill you, or if you can kill your opponent quick enough that the tempo is worth the loss of card advantage. Tezz usually cant take advantage of the tempo, and we have enough other tools in the deck that combo matchups shouldn't give you too many problems. Chalice, Bridge, Leyline, 3sphere, Lodestone Golem, etc are all cards at your disposal that give assorted combo decks fits. MUD/Stax decks don't need FoW to shitcan combo and I don't think Tezz does either really.

Additionally, it's always put me off a bit that usually pitching a blue card to FoW results in losing one of your main business cards, like a Thopter Foundry or a planeswalker. I found myself a lot of times casting FoW and then not really having anything to follow it up with.

[a tribe called trest]

I haven't played FoW in the deck (grixis for me) for some time and I haven't missed it a bit. You only really want FoW to stop a combo deck that's about to kill you, or if you can kill your opponent quick enough that the tempo is worth the loss of card advantage. Tezz usually cant take advantage of the tempo, and we have enough other tools in the deck that combo matchups shouldn't give you too many problems. Chalice, Bridge, Leyline, 3sphere, Lodestone Golem, etc are all cards at your disposal that give assorted combo decks fits. MUD/Stax decks don't need FoW to shitcan combo and I don't think Tezz does either really.

Additionally, it's always put me off a bit that usually pitching a blue card to FoW results in losing one of your main business cards, like a Thopter Foundry or a planeswalker. I found myself a lot of times casting FoW and then not really having anything to follow it up with.

I've found the best use for fow in this deck isn't necessarily for combo decks, but for the truly preposterous situations legacy presents. An enchantress player casting solitary confinement, the elves player casting a winter orb, the food chain player casting manipulate fate, the DNT player casting cataclysm, the burn player dropping a sulfuric vortex...etc etc etc. Somewhere along the day, you are going to encounter something that you couldn't possibly have accounted for in your sideboard given the dizzying depth of the format. fow ends up being a potential catch all answer for the ridiculous. It's not always a great answer, but the opportunity cost isn't outrageous as it's a card that is debated to get played anyway for its value against combo.

I do think we should try to maximize it's value if run though. Ie running a fire/ice before the 2nd/3rd copy of kolaghan's command, a flusterstorm before the 2nd/3rd copy of lodestone golem, a keranos or padeem before the copy of batterskull/wurmcoil.

[Ellomdian]

Played *ACTUAL PAPER MAGIC* today (gasp...!) in a 19 player GPT today. #1 in Swiss, dropped before T8 because I still don't know if I am going to Vegas.

It's nice to know that a straight U/B list is still viable. Played against Reanimator, Rock, and Eldrazi. ID'd and played for fun against Sneak&Show and Miracles. Ensnaring Bridge is still a Very good card.

Play of the day: Reanimator BLOWS me out T1 with a Sire. G2, he T1 Pitch-casts Unmask targeting himself. I pitchcast MisD, retargeting it on myself. Why, yes, I will 3-for-2 myself to keep from losing on the spot... :)

Hoping to play more often, as I have been informed the Denver scene is healthier than when I took a break. Probably going to keep slinging this list, unless something else catches my eye... I do have a set of my own Dack's now :cool:

[Undomian]

Made top 8 of a local today after crushing FNM last night playing with some Ballista in my maindeck and a Liquidmetal coating just for shits and giggles before losing to a bunch of sideboard cards against Grixis Deliver. Ballista has been about what I expected it to be, but I think I'm going to keep playing it until I play against more matchups where it actually matters. Today's tournament was bye, MUD (2-0), D&T (2-1, misplayed with Ballista to lose this), Miracles (2-0), and draw. Coating wrecked our Enchantress player (TBH these stupid interactions are mostly why I wanted to try it again) but I don't think that card is long for my list.

[Ellomdian]

Made top 8 of a local today after crushing FNM last night playing with some Ballista in my maindeck


- What is your list currently? I looked back through a few pages, and didn't see anything current.

- I'm still trying to wrap my head around Ballista in UB. I have a ton more mana, so it can go bigger, but it seems better against Aggro matchups than midrange when compared to stuff like Damnation and The Abyss. If we were still in a world where you have to kill a Delver T1 every other game, it seems really good, but I don't think we live in that world anymore. O/c, it DESTROYS DnT, so there's that... :cool:

[Cyanhur]

Hi,

i am starting to play grixis Tezz, i like this deck.

Can someone give me some side table to help me?

I have a tournament in 3 week.

I am playing that list :

Creature

4 baleful strix

Planewalkers

4 Tezz
2 dack
1 daretti
1 jace

Spell

4 force
2 transmute
1 toxic deluge

Artifact

4 mox diamond
4 calice
2 dimir
2 bridge
3 foundry
2 sword
1 crucible

Lands

1 academy
4 ancient tomb
1 badland
1 city of traitors
1 creeping tar pit
1 inventor's fare
2 island
4 polluted delta
1 swamp
2 underground sea
1 urborg
1 volcanic Island
1 scalding tarn
2 wasteland

Sideboard

1 the abyss
1 toxic deluge
2 trinisphere
1 EE
1 engineered plague
2 Flusterstorm
3 leyline of the void
1 helm
1 missdirection
1 ghirapur
1 daretti

I am not sure about missdi and the second trini.

[Undomian]

- What is your list currently? I looked back through a few pages, and didn't see anything current.

- I'm still trying to wrap my head around Ballista in UB. I have a ton more mana, so it can go bigger, but it seems better against Aggro matchups than midrange when compared to stuff like Damnation and The Abyss. If we were still in a world where you have to kill a Delver T1 every other game, it seems really good, but I don't think we live in that world anymore. O/c, it DESTROYS DnT, so there's that... :cool:

I registered this based on my expected metagame (we've had a LOT of players on Elves and S&T recently, which really means that I probably shouldn't have played this deck in the first place :rolleyes:):


1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland
4 Baleful Strix
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dack Fayden
2 Dimir Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Force of Will
1 Liquimetal Coating
4 Mox Diamond
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Transmute Artifact
2 Walking Ballista
Sideboard:

1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Force of Will
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Lodestone Golem
2 Toxic Deluge


Probably wouldn't register that exact 75 again. Ballista is great against Elves, but other than that it just makes good matchups better and is straight up useless a nonzero percentage of the time. My inner Johnny really wants Liquimetal Coating to be good (on paper it's reasonable to me with 6 ways to abuse it in the 75), and I did manage to remove a postboard Rest in Peace with it one game by taking it with Dack and turning it into a Thopter, but there are definitely times when the card is bad. I'm not sure why it took me so long to try out Inventor's Fair. That card was awesome every time I drew it. Swapping out a Wasteland for that was the easiest thing to do without having much time to test, but it's possible that the card I remove for it should be something else.


Hi,
i am starting to play grixis Tezz, i like this deck.
Can someone give me some side table to help me?
I have a tournament in 3 week.

I am playing that list :
<decklist>

I am not sure about missdi and the second trini.

Your maindeck choices look pretty normal, though I'm not sure how great Crucible actually is given that you're playing less fetchlands and only 2 Dack. I'm also not a huge fan of your changes to the deck's manabase; swapping out blue lands for Badlands and Urborg might make it difficult to cast Jace and Transmute in a pinch. As for your SB, Misdirection is great against most flavors of BUG, and the second Trinisphere is great against combo but might be better as the first Lodestone Golem. It's less disruptive, but it can't be hit by Abrupt Decay and it provides a quick clock.

[a tribe called trest]

[QUOTE=Undomian;1002230]I registered this based on my expected metagame (we've had a LOT of players on Elves and S&T recently, which really means that I probably shouldn't have played this deck in the first place :rolleyes:):


1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland
4 Baleful Strix
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dack Fayden
2 Dimir Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Force of Will
1 Liquimetal Coating
4 Mox Diamond
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Transmute Artifact
2 Walking Ballista
Sideboard:

1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Force of Will
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Lodestone Golem
2 Toxic Deluge


Probably wouldn't register that exact 75 again. Ballista is great against Elves, but other than that it just makes good matchups better and is straight up useless a nonzero percentage of the time. My inner Johnny really wants Liquimetal Coating to be good (on paper it's reasonable to me with 6 ways to abuse it in the 75), and I did manage to remove a postboard Rest in Peace with it one game by taking it with Dack and turning it into a Thopter, but there are definitely times when the card is bad. I'm not sure why it took me so long to try out Inventor's Fair. That card was awesome every time I drew it. Swapping out a Wasteland for that was the easiest thing to do without having much time to test, but it's possible that the card I remove for it should be something else.



With only 2 wastelands and no crucible in the 75, are they not just better off being additional fetches at that point? Haha also agreed on liquimetal coating, its so juicy on paper. Would you sooner go up to 4 ballista? or go to 0?

[Undomian]

With only 2 wastelands and no crucible in the 75, are they not just better off being additional fetches at that point? Haha also agreed on liquimetal coating, its so juicy on paper. Would you sooner go up to 4 ballista? or go to 0?

That could certainly be an option, yeah. I just really like having access to that sort of effect, so if I try anything it would likely be a fetch and a Dust Bowl or something. As for Ballista, I'm probably more likely to go back to accepting that Elves is unwinnable and not playing it since that, D&T, and Grixis Delver are the only (well represented) decks where it's effective, and the latter two are already even to favorable matchups.

[CptHaddock]

Played *ACTUAL PAPER MAGIC* today (gasp...!) in a 19 player GPT today. #1 in Swiss, dropped before T8 because I still don't know if I am going to Vegas.

It's nice to know that a straight U/B list is still viable. Played against Reanimator, Rock, and Eldrazi. ID'd and played for fun against Sneak&Show and Miracles. Ensnaring Bridge is still a Very good card.

Play of the day: Reanimator BLOWS me out T1 with a Sire. G2, he T1 Pitch-casts Unmask targeting himself. I pitchcast MisD, retargeting it on myself. Why, yes, I will 3-for-2 myself to keep from losing on the spot... :)

Hoping to play more often, as I have been informed the Denver scene is healthier than when I took a break. Probably going to keep slinging this list, unless something else catches my eye... I do have a set of my own Dack's now :cool:

Out of curiosity what does your UB list look like now (if you don't mind sharing)? I found one you posted a while back, I imagine it's roughly sameish. I tried out the UBr version that Undomian has been championing and found that it really didn't fit my playstyle, would be very curious to try out UB.



4 Baleful Strix
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
2 Dimir Signet
4 Talisman of Dominance
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Polluted Delta
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Force of Will
3 Transmute Artifact
4 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Damnation
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Staff of Nin
1 The Abyss

1 Toxic Deluge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sun Droplet
1 Notion Thief
2 Thoughtseize
1 Null Brooch

[Undomian]

Well we lost our best matchup, which is kind of a hit to the deck. It'll be interesting to see how this deck evolves post-Miracles. I'm anticipating either an overload of removal to deal with the impending Deathrite apocalypse or a resurgence of combo as an archetype, both of which allow for this deck to remain playable.

[a tribe called trest]

Etched Champion's time to shine with a little padding of the artifact count? no fear of terminus anymore and its strong in the face of abruptdecay.dec

[Cyanhur]

Okok tanks, i Will make some change.
What do you think -badland - urborg for 1 underground and 1 volcanic ? Or More Feitch?
What Can i play main deck if i cut crucible? A second toxic deluge main deck ?

And what is your opinion about loosing miracle Match up?
Tezzerator is fine vs stoneblade ? 4 c contrôle ? Grixis delver?

I havent any experience with the deck and i dont know if i have to make some change main deck and sideboard ?

Witch older card will be good again? The abyss? Mephistoles?

[Undomian]

Okok tanks, i Will make some change.
What do you think -badland - urborg for 1 underground and 1 volcanic ? Or More Feitch?
What Can i play main deck if i cut crucible? A second toxic deluge main deck ?

And what is your opinion about loosing miracle Match up?
Tezzerator is fine vs stoneblade ? 4 c contrôle ? Grixis delver?

I havent any experience with the deck and i dont know if i have to make some change main deck and sideboard ?

Witch older card will be good again? The abyss? Mephistoles?
If you insist on playing Creeping Tar Pit you probably want to add a Volc and another fetchland. This deck is historically fine against Stoneblade, Grixis Delver is about even to favorable depending on your draws and exact deck configuration, and while I don't have a ton of playtesting against the recent 4C Control lists, that matchup does not look great. Who can say what the metagame and everyone else's decks will end up looking like, though, with Miracles out of the format?

Also, for the record, Chains and The Abyss never stopped being good. :wink:

[gibsonjunkie]

Yeah, I'm really, really afraid the deck is much worse in the larger meta post-Top ban. I personally think everyone should be playing a one-of Padeem mainboard now with the potential for Abrupt Decay going up now.

[hoernchen]

I really don't like the interactions between Padeem and Bridge.

I am not so worried looking at the future of this deck, me for the moment just pack 2 Deluge in the MB and will be happy to even hit the Board with a Chalice or board wipe them.

Lets see how the Meta will develop now. I expect a lot of D&T and Delver

[Cyanhur]

Someone was at the mkm series ?
We saw a tezz deck at round 8 with 5-2.

Any other tournament ? Is the deck fine in the meta?

Sneak, food chain is it a bad match up?

[Ephemeron]

Someone was at the mkm series ?
We saw a tezz deck at round 8 with 5-2.

Any other tournament ? Is the deck fine in the meta?

Sneak, food chain is it a bad match up?

Normal sneak n' show is a decent matchup. Game 1 they're actually just stone dead to Ensnaring Bridge so Transmute into that ASAP. I would imagine the omnishow version to be worse since they can just release the ants on you.

I haven't played against food chain a lot, but I remember it being a pretty lousy matchup. They have the standard bug matchup problem of not being bothered by chalice as much and walking ballista means their combo kills you even though Ensnaring Bridge.

[Undomian]

These matchups are part of the reason I tend to play a lot of Lodestone Golems in my sideboard. That card is great against Omni (less so against Sneak, but it's still a fine disruptive piece against them) and stops the combo half of Food Chain entirely.

[gibsonjunkie]

Yeah the 4c Control matchup is absolutely miserable imo. Played it last week and got blown out after they Pyroblast-ed Jace, then untapped and slammed their own. Ouch.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[gibsonjunkie]

I really don't like the interactions between Padeem and Bridge.

I am not so worried looking at the future of this deck, me for the moment just pack 2 Deluge in the MB and will be happy to even hit the Board with a Chalice or board wipe them.

Lets see how the Meta will develop now. I expect a lot of D&T and Delver
Honestly it isn't all that bad. The only time you really end up getting screwed is if you draw Force, and at that point you can probably hardcast it to get it out of your hand, or maybe loot it away with Dack. I have only really had them both on the board at the same time once or twice and it didn't feel that awful.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Farone]

Someone was at the mkm series ?
We saw a tezz deck at round 8 with 5-2.

Any other tournament ? Is the deck fine in the meta?

Sneak, food chain is it a bad match up?

I was playing against the Tezzeret deck in r8 (I was the DnT guy), not sure what list he was on tbh. Our first game (off camera) took like 25-30min, he had Padeem and Bridge on the table and played a tezzeret agent of bolas afterwards. Was kinda grindy but fun game.
he dropped afterwards sadly, would've loved to see the deck played out the 10 rounds.

[Cyanhur]

I was playing against the Tezzeret deck in r8 (I was the DnT guy), not sure what list he was on tbh. Our first game (off camera) took like 25-30min, he had Padeem and Bridge on the table and played a tezzeret agent of bolas afterwards. Was kinda grindy but fun game.
he dropped afterwards sadly, would've loved to see the deck played out the 10 rounds.

Okok thanks for the informations.
Did you remember if at rounds 10, if he was in the higher table?

I will do a tournament each weekend from the next 3 weekend.

I will try to make a report for each tornament.

[Malakai]

Finally got around to trying out a list with Walking Ballista for a couple of matches. Well... color me impressed. It is obviously dead against Storm, but single-handedly won me games against a BUG deck, absolutely destroyed DnT and even against Miracles, where I was skeptical about its impact, it did a very good job of pressuring Jace and killing Cliques and even Mentors. Definitely going to try it out further. I'm also thinking about taking a page out of Vintage Ravager Shop lists and using a build playing Ravager/Ballista/Hangarback.

I have used Hangarback Walker as Baleful Strix 5-6 and found that it does a very good impression. It's probably better than Glint-Nest Crane because a 1/3 can't really block anything, where Hangarback gets you two blocks minimum and threatens to grow in a meaningful way.

I don't see how Walking Ballista is any good, though. At 2 mana you only get one block out of it, and at 4 mana there are much better things to be doing.

[Cyanhur]

Hi,

Someone did some games with the new meta? What are your impressions?

Exept 2 deluge in main what we have to change main or in sideboard ?

[Poron]

Pyroclasm.

Play 18 of them

[Ellomdian]

Out of curiosity what does your UB list look like now (if you don't mind sharing)? I found one you posted a while back, I imagine it's roughly sameish. I tried out the UBr version that Undomian has been championing and found that it really didn't fit my playstyle, would be very curious to try out UB.

If by 'Roughly' you mean pretty much that 75, you would be correct. Honestly I haven't found any major adaptations for the main in the last year or so, and it's been mostly sideboard tech to adapt to different events/metas. I think it's a fine starting point, and you can easily cut The Abyss and Staff of Nin to free up slots to tweak it to your preference. There's an older post that discusses the 'core' of the deck (~50 cards) versus the flex slots, so you can go from there.


Yeah, I'm really, really afraid the deck is much worse in the larger meta post-Top ban. I personally think everyone should be playing a one-of Padeem mainboard now with the potential for Abrupt Decay going up now.

I'm confused, Miracles dying has meant wayyyyy fewer MD decays for me since people don't feel like they have to run it for that matchup. If anything, I've seen less artifact hate as decks start to load up on answers to creatures. I like Padeem in theory, but I don't like narrow, proactive answers that die to Swords in the Main, and as a 1-of post-board that you can't search for, I have to question the value. At least my pet singletons are redundant or tutor-able.


Pyroclasm.

Play 18 of them

*THIS* has been my experience post Top-Ban. I'm within spitting distance of getting another Bridge in the main (Probably at the cost of Staff, since I've seen way fewer Lillianas) and seriously considering another Deluge in the board. I'd probably have No Mercy back in here too, if I wasn't losing so much life to f'ing DRS drains.


I don't see how Walking Ballista is any good, though. At 2 mana you only get one block out of it, and at 4 mana there are much better things to be doing.

At 2 mana, I only get one block out of my Strix, but it has other merits. 2 mana for a 1/1 Ballista isn't even great, but it still shoots the crap out of a bunch of random dorks that Mommy can't protect from. The added value comes when you have colorless available at EOT but don't have other things to be doing, which is the case with this deck a lot.

[a tribe called trest]

Anyone have any experience with izzet charm? A rare card that has some value against elves/dnt while also being reasonable against sneak and show/omnitell.

[sdematt]

Anyone have any experience with izzet charm? A rare card that has some value against elves/dnt while also being reasonable against sneak and show/omnitell.

Cursed totem?

[Poron]

I don't understand this deck with no red.

Daretti
Blood Moon
Pyroclasm/Rolling Earthquake
Dack Fayden (+Chains of Mephistopheles seen we can't play Leovold)
Better E.E.

Overall, the name of the deck itself doesn't make sense anymore: which is Tezzeret 5-8?
There has never been another played Tezzeret apart from AoB. Just Jace, Dack Fayden and Daretti.

[a tribe called trest]

Cursed totem?

Better against dnt/elves than izzet charm is for sure, but only hits grizz on the show and tell side. With omniscience running around more, dropping a bridge or abyss off the show and tell feels worse than trying to counter it on the stack.

[Ellomdian]

I don't understand this deck with no red.

Daretti
Blood Moon
Pyroclasm/Rolling Earthquake
Dack Fayden (+Chains of Mephistopheles seen we can't play Leovold)
Better E.E.

Overall, the name of the deck itself doesn't make sense anymore: which is Tezzeret 5-8?
There has never been another played Tezzeret apart from AoB. Just Jace, Dack Fayden and Daretti.

I mean, I'd happily argue the merits of the UBx versions versus the UB ones - and we've done so, extensively, a looonnnggg time ago, in this thread. The biggest arguments are mana consistency, susceptibility to Wasteland, and the relative strength of Mox Diamond accelerated strategies with and without Diamond openings. I also don't think that Crucible/Waste 'lock' is very good in Legacy if you don't already have control of the board, and if you have control, why are you derping around with a bad prison lock, but that's a matter of preference.

8Tezz originally referred to the fact that JTMS was a less-powerful Tezz, AoB, but people played Seekers back when Helm/Leyline was a really good wincon because of Graveyard decks being more prominent, mostly due to Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time.

So, do you want to play Dack, a situational planeswalker, Daretti, an overhyped welder that doesn't pitch to FoW when you are getting combo'd out, and a supporting cast of Diamonds, Crucibles, and Wastelands that *might* be relevant when you draw them, and might not because you are just getting crushed by a Goyf; or do you want to be able to T2 JTMS and play MD Damnation?

Neither answer is 'right.' If I was changing the name of the thread, it would probably be "Sol Lands into Mana Rocks for Tezz AoB and Other Walkers.dec." Of course, that sounds ridiculous, and I played a looooot of Trix, which is the most ridiculous 'real' deckname.

[.dk]

Neither answer is 'right.' If I was changing the name of the thread, it would probably be "Sol Lands into Mana Rocks for Tezz AoB and Other Walkers.dec." Of course, that sounds ridiculous, and I played a looooot of Trix, which is the most ridiculous 'real' deckname.

I take exception to this. We specifically named Tin Fins to be more ridiculous than any other deck name - much more so than Trix. I mean, it's one of our biggest claims to fame! C'MON MAN!

[Ellomdian]

I take exception to this. We specifically named Tin Fins to be more ridiculous than any other deck name - much more so than Trix. I mean, it's one of our biggest claims to fame! C'MON MAN!

Fair point. I suppose a Sea Lab reference is more obscure than a Breakfast Cereal. Ridiculousness Points re-accorded. :)

[.dk]

Fair point. I suppose a Sea Lab reference is more obscure than a Breakfast Cereal. Ridiculousness Points re-accorded. :)

Ok good, glad we got the important point of contention here cleared up. Proceed and go on about your business. :)

[a tribe called trest]

I don't understand this deck with no red.

Daretti
Blood Moon
Pyroclasm/Rolling Earthquake
Dack Fayden (+Chains of Mephistopheles seen we can't play Leovold)
Better E.E.

Overall, the name of the deck itself doesn't make sense anymore: which is Tezzeret 5-8?
There has never been another played Tezzeret apart from AoB. Just Jace, Dack Fayden and Daretti.


TezzaDacktyl?

[Undomian]

TezzaDacktyl?

I named it Dack in Black for a reason :wink:

[Undomian]

Having not played in a tournament since the banning, I was pretty apprehensive about how this deck might perform in the new meta, but it looks like we don't have much to worry about. Ended up taking home a Gaea's Cradle last night in a local tournament for second place (rip my ever owning a foil Cradle, which was first prize). Played against Burn (2-1), Pox (2-0), D&T (2-1), Elves (2-1), BUG Delver (1-2). Probably could have won against BUG with better mulligan decisions. I ended up playing this:

4 Baleful Strix

4 Dack Fayden
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

3 Force of Will
2 Transmute Artifact

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Liquimetal Coating

4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet

1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Inventor’s Fair
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Dust Bowl

SB:
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Force of Will
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 The Abyss


Liquimetal Coating is probably still really bad but with 6 MD cards that can interact with it in a pretty powerful way I've been able to make some stupid plays out of nowhere. The MD Trinisphere is also somewhat suspect, but it hasn't been bad yet.

[gibsonjunkie]

Having not played in a tournament since the banning, I was pretty apprehensive about how this deck might perform in the new meta, but it looks like we don't have much to worry about. Ended up taking home a Gaea's Cradle last night in a local tournament for second place (rip my ever owning a foil Cradle, which was first prize). Played against Burn (2-1), Pox (2-0), D&T (2-1), Elves (2-1), BUG Delver (1-2). Probably could have won against BUG with better mulligan decisions. I ended up playing this:

4 Baleful Strix

4 Dack Fayden
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

3 Force of Will
2 Transmute Artifact

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Liquimetal Coating

4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet

1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Inventor’s Fair
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Dust Bowl

SB:
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Force of Will
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Engineered Explosives
1 The Abyss


Liquimetal Coating is probably still really bad but with 6 MD cards that can interact with it in a pretty powerful way I've been able to make some stupid plays out of nowhere. The MD Trinisphere is also somewhat suspect, but it hasn't been bad yet.

4 Dack seems like a lot, but I'm intrigued. Did you miss being able to slam Jace at all?

[Undomian]

4 Dack seems like a lot, but I'm intrigued. Did you miss being able to slam Jace at all?

I've been playing 4 Dack over any copies of Jace since very shortly after he was printed, you can look further back through the thread for my arguments on that if you want.

[a tribe called trest]

Having not played in a tournament since the banning, I was pretty apprehensive about how this deck might perform in the new meta, but it looks like we don't have much to worry about. Ended up taking home a Gaea's Cradle last night in a local tournament for second place (rip my ever owning a foil Cradle, which was first prize). Played against Burn (2-1), Pox (2-0), D&T (2-1), Elves (2-1), BUG Delver (1-2). Probably could have won against BUG with better mulligan decisions. I ended up playing this:

4 Baleful Strix

4 Dack Fayden
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

3 Force of Will
2 Transmute Artifact

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Liquimetal Coating

4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet

1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Inventor’s Fair
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Dust Bowl

SB:
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Force of Will
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Engineered Explosives
1 The Abyss


Liquimetal Coating is probably still really bad but with 6 MD cards that can interact with it in a pretty powerful way I've been able to make some stupid plays out of nowhere. The MD Trinisphere is also somewhat suspect, but it hasn't been bad yet.



Did you keep the liquimetal coating in against dnt and elves? If so, was it any good or just better off being a 3rd deluge?

Dust bowl is sweet

[Undomian]

Did you keep the liquimetal coating in against dnt and elves? If so, was it any good or just better off being a 3rd deluge?

Dust bowl is sweet

No, it comes out against most things, which is part of why I keep saying that it's probably bad. A sweeper out of the board takes it's place against those decks. Were I to register this deck for a real tournament (read: not a local thing) I likely would not have that in my deck.

[hoernchen]

I went back in the threat yesterday to find your thoughts on playing 4 Dack Fayden, but couldn't find it. Can you repost it, or send a link of your post.

Thanks!

[gibsonjunkie]

I've been playing 4 Dack over any copies of Jace since very shortly after he was printed, you can look further back through the thread for my arguments on that if you want.
I read the whole thread a while back. Must've missed it or forgot. I might have to give it a spin sometime!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Undomian]

I went back in the threat yesterday to find your thoughts on playing 4 Dack Fayden, but couldn't find it. Can you repost it, or send a link of your post.

Thanks!

Look around this post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26246-Deck-8Tezz-dec-UB-Tezzeret/page11&p=817050#post817050) to see if anyone else was commenting on it at the time. I wasn't playing 4 then, but that stuff still applies. To make a tl;dr of this, Dack:

Usually comes down a turn before Tezzeret given a non-Sol land draw
Finds our threats
Loots away cards that might be terrible in a given matchup
Loots away "the other half of the deck" a.k.a. the mana, when necessary
Has great synergy with Bridge and SotM
Finds SB cards (unlike Tezzeret, generally)
Wrecks opposing artifact decks
A lot more, I'm sure, but it's too early in the morning for me to make a long post

[Cyanhur]

Can someone tell when we need to side the chains of mephistoles ? Because i am not sure but i want to put in everytime when my oponent is playing contrip.

Thanks for your anwser.

[a tribe called trest]

Can someone tell when we need to side the chains of mephistoles ? Because i am not sure but i want to put in everytime when my oponent is playing contrip.

Thanks for your anwser.

You can probably make a reasonable argument for bringing it in every match if you run 4 Dack Fayden and leave them in. It's always live. It also happens to be on the 8tezz venn diagram of pimp factor and oddly synergistic.

[hoernchen]

Look around this post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26246-Deck-8Tezz-dec-UB-Tezzeret/page11&p=817050#post817050) to see if anyone else was commenting on it at the time. I wasn't playing 4 then, but that stuff still applies. To make a tl;dr of this, Dack:

Usually comes down a turn before Tezzeret given a non-Sol land draw
Finds our threats
Loots away cards that might be terrible in a given matchup
Loots away "the other half of the deck" a.k.a. the mana, when necessary
Has great synergy with Bridge and SotM
Finds SB cards (unlike Tezzeret, generally)
Wrecks opposing artifact decks
A lot more, I'm sure, but it's too early in the morning for me to make a long post


Thank you for the link. Didn't think it will be so much in front

[nimkee]

I did a quick search but bricked. Any tips for 4c loam matchup for either straight UB or grixis tezz builds?

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[Ghost588]

List is old I know but did this build ever take off anywhere? Would it be decent now in a more creature meta?

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD071897/

[Cyanhur]

List is old I know but did this build ever take off anywhere? Would it be decent now in a more creature meta?

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD071897/

Why not with some change.

Miracle will be back maybe. It's fine for us.
Anyone did some tornament? Or will going at the Gp Vegas?

[NetterMizuno]

How do you guys deal with the (cencor) leovold? Im getting really tired to see that heap of dung every other match. I dont mind the part they draw (which is rare) it just hits so badly me with the no extra draws clause that its driving me nuts.

[filln]

How do you guys deal with the (cencor) leovold? Im getting really tired to see that heap of dung every other match. I dont mind the part they draw (which is rare) it just hits so badly me with the no extra draws clause that its dricing me nuts.

Toxic Deluge is my main answer to Leovold, though I'm not extremely troubled by him. His draw prevention only affects Dack and Strix while the targeting ability doesn't come into play too often either.

[NetterMizuno]

Toxic Deluge is my main answer to Leovold, though I'm not extremely troubled by him. His draw prevention only affects Dack and Strix while the targeting ability doesn't come into play too often either.

I do Padeem MD and it hurts like hell not be able to draw when my hand usually lines with couple trix, padeem (and sometimes with dack) its so god damn frustrating not get any value out of when vs him :/

How many deluges you main and side? any other removal/wraths you run?

[filln]

I do Padeem MD and it hurts like hell not be able to draw when my hand usually lines with couple trix, padeem (and sometimes with dack) its so god damn frustrating not get any value out of when vs him :/

How many deluges you main and side? any other removal/wraths you run?

Oh, I forgot about Padeem. I run two Deluge in the side, though sometimes will bring one in main depending on meta. Only other removal I run is targeted: Ghirapur Aether Grid (probably not great against Leovold), Daretti, or Breya/Keranos (for fun). You could potentially try a Fatal Push or two as well?

[a tribe called trest]

How do you guys deal with the (cencor) leovold? Im getting really tired to see that heap of dung every other match. I dont mind the part they draw (which is rare) it just hits so badly me with the no extra draws clause that its driving me nuts.

I was feeling similarly annoyed by that card. Came to the conclusion with top out of the format, I can live with just completely ignoring null rod. I'm on 3x deluge 2x ee. Has helped greatly with those matchups. Trying to hold up b/r for the great cards like daretti and k command while also trying to hit the blue planeswalkers feels impossible in the face of wasteland. Rather just try to sweep up the idiots and race with thopters/blue walkers. If someone plays a null rod, just tip my cap and move on. EE does a reasonable job of killing problematic artifacts not named null rod that you would use k command and daretti for anyway. Too hard to combat the possibility of that card and all the value pile decks simultaneously. Also something undomian mentioned in an above post, Dack is the card that mostly finds your sideboard cards. EE is one of the few cards that the Tezzadacktyl (maybe a thing?) can grab.

List for reference

Lands x23

4x ancient tomb
3x scalding tarn
4x polluted delta
3x underground sea
3x volcanic island
1x badlands
2x island
1x swamp
1x inventors fair
1x academy ruins

creatures x4

4x baleful strix

artifacts x19

4x chalice of the void
4x mox diamond
4x thopter foundry
3x sword of the meek
2x ensnaring bridge
2x dimir signet

planeswalkers x8

4x tezzeret, agent of bolas
4x dack fayden

instant/sorcery x6

4x force of will
2x transmute artifact


sideboard x15

4x leyline of the void
3x toxic deluge
1x the abyss
1x nether void
1x mindbreak trap
1x flusterstorm
2x engineered explosives
1x helm of obedience
1x lodestone golem

[Ellomdian]

I did a quick search but bricked. Any tips for 4c loam matchup for either straight UB or grixis tezz builds?

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4C Loam is Jund with better drawing and slower threats, and they are actually 'real' threat light. They Maindeck Decay, so you can't sit back on Bridges as much. Get a 4CC+ wincon online ASAP, and save removal/sweepers for Knights - it's going to take a loooooong time to PFire you down. I personally SB out ThopterSword, and bring in MisD (any deck with decay) and Removal.

Going to be harder in the Grixis builds, because you don't have as many 4CC options. Decay is a hell of a lot stronger against that version.


How do you guys deal with the (cencor) leovold? Im getting really tired to see that heap of dung every other match. I dont mind the part they draw (which is rare) it just hits so badly me with the no extra draws clause that its driving me nuts.

I'm assuming you are playing the Grixis version, because it's much more dependent on drawing extra cards than the straight UB one. My solution has been (and will continue to be) Mass removal - you can cheat with Deluge and Perish, pay full retail for Damnation, or even try to get sneaky with Barter in Blood. I'm curious if there is value in Anger of the Gods for the Grixis build, but Undomain would have to speak to that :p

[Undomian]

I'm assuming you are playing the Grixis version, because it's much more dependent on drawing extra cards than the straight UB one. My solution has been (and will continue to be) Mass removal - you can cheat with Deluge and Perish, pay full retail for Damnation, or even try to get sneaky with Barter in Blood. I'm curious if there is value in Anger of the Gods for the Grixis build, but Undomain would have to speak to that :p

Anger of the Gods/Slagstorm/Sweltering Suns could be good, but those all run into the same problem that Fiery Confluence does in that RR is really difficult to hit in the face of Wasteland.

[hymnyou]

Anger of the Gods/Slagstorm/Sweltering Suns could be good, but those all run into the same problem that Fiery Confluence does in that RR is really difficult to hit in the face of Wasteland.

Pyroclasm.

[CptHaddock]

Pyroclasm.

Clasm doesn't kill Leovold on it's own unfortunately. Sudden Demise might be something to try out but I feel like at that CMC you might just be better off casting Damnation or Deluge.

[Undomian]

Yeah I like Whipflare (or similar) a lot against a Elves-heavy metagame but for anything larger it's basically Deluge/Damnation/Sudden Demise, and I personally prefer Deluge most times. As mentioned earlier, EE is also fine, but has the unfortunate drawback of killing the Dack Dayden that Leovold was shutting down anyway. Even though it draws them a few cards under Leovold, The Abyss is still really good against any flavor of BUG, and as with any other deck spot removal (i.e. Daretti) works against it as well.

[NetterMizuno]

I'm assuming you are playing the Grixis version, because it's much more dependent on drawing extra cards than the straight UB one. My solution has been (and will continue to be) Mass removal - you can cheat with Deluge and Perish, pay full retail for Damnation, or even try to get sneaky with Barter in Blood. I'm curious if there is value in Anger of the Gods for the Grixis build, but Undomain would have to speak to that :p

Correct im on grixis plan with heavy basic land count. I havent gotten round to get duals so blood moon main deck also.


Anger of the Gods/Slagstorm/Sweltering Suns could be good, but those all run into the same problem that Fiery Confluence does in that RR is really difficult to hit in the face of Wasteland.


Looks like need to add second deluge from side to main then.

[nimkee]

4C Loam is Jund with better drawing and slower threats, and they are actually 'real' threat light. They Maindeck Decay, so you can't sit back on Bridges as much. Get a 4CC+ wincon online ASAP, and save removal/sweepers for Knights - it's going to take a loooooong time to PFire you down. I personally SB out ThopterSword, and bring in MisD (any deck with decay) and Removal.

Going to be harder in the Grixis builds, because you don't have as many 4CC options. Decay is a hell of a lot stronger against that version.



I'm assuming you are playing the Grixis version, because it's much more dependent on drawing extra cards than the straight UB one. My solution has been (and will continue to be) Mass removal - you can cheat with Deluge and Perish, pay full retail for Damnation, or even try to get sneaky with Barter in Blood. I'm curious if there is value in Anger of the Gods for the Grixis build, but Undomain would have to speak to that :p
Im going back to the straight UB build for a couple weeks so that is a good thing. I really like the diversity and digging of grixis though. It sounds greedy but I want to add an academy rector for all the juicy enchantments we can run in grixis...chains abyss and moon for starters. I remember seeing a high placing list out of japan that ran detention sphere plus Breya too.

Anyone have good things to say about Breya and 4 color tezzerator?

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[hoernchen]

I just found this decklist, placing 3rd in a 130 man tournament.
What do you folks think about the decklist?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23299&iddeck=180616

[Ellomdian]

Im going back to the straight UB build for a couple weeks so that is a good thing. I really like the diversity and digging of grixis though. It sounds greedy but I want to add an academy rector for all the juicy enchantments we can run in grixis...chains abyss and moon for starters. I remember seeing a high placing list out of japan that ran detention sphere plus Breya too.

Anyone have good things to say about Breya and 4 color tezzerator?

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I think she's a hard to cast planeswalker that dies to most creature removal :P Seriously, though, I feel like you are just going to have mana problems. You're going to be broken in half by wasteland draws, you lose on the spot to Blood Moon, just so messy. Try it for fun, but I feel like it's just too much.


I just found this decklist, placing 3rd in a 130 man tournament.
What do you folks think about the decklist?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23299&iddeck=180616

I think it must have gotten awfully lucky against fast (see: Combo) decks, because it has 0 MD interaction outside of Chalice. I like Cloister if you're willing to toss the FoWs.

[hoernchen]

I think it must have gotten awfully lucky against fast (see: Combo) decks, because it has 0 MD interaction outside of Chalice. I like Cloister if you're willing to toss the FoWs.

I am not so sure about that. With the Leylines you already do some work against combo. There were always lists that didn't include FoW in the MD

[gibsonjunkie]

I am not so sure about that. With the Leylines you already do some work against combo. There were always lists that didn't include FoW in the MD
I think the consensus is to play 2-3 main and the rest in the side. If you don't get turn 1-2 Chalice vs. Combo you kinda just die without it.

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[Cyanhur]

Hi, I did a trial for the legacy belgium cup yesterday. We were 33 players (6 round + top 8). I finished at the 13 place.
This is my little report.

My deck list :

3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
4 Dack Fayden


creatures

4 Baleful Strix


Spells and artifact


3 Force of Will
1 Bottled Cloister
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Dimir Signet
1 Sword of the Meek
2 Transmute Artifact
2 Thopter Foundry
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond


Lands


2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Inventor's Fair


Side


3 Lodestone Golem
1 Force of Will
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 The Abyss
1 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Plague
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Engineered Explosives


Roun 1 0-2 vs TES
G1 : I did calice T2, before escape a discard. Was thinking its fine for me but he find Burning with to destroy my calice then combo
G2 : Mulligan 5 and i can't do any thing

I really want trinisphere.

Round 2 2-0 vs Sneak and show

i think this match up is really easy

G1 : show and tell turn 1 he put Grisel and me Bridge, then it's win
G2 : Opponent play moon T2 but i have a hand with dimir and mox, it's fine then i find 2 bridge, he concede, he juste have one whip away

Round 3 1-2 vs eldrazi

I was crazy to lost this match
G1 : never find a 4 source of mana
G2 : Mulligan to 6 and i keep a hand with 3 strix swamp island bridge, easy win
G3 : I never find a Tezz, i had dack fayden with 14 count and bottle on the board. My opponent played leyline of the void at the start, i Force the first helm and he find a second helm at additionnal turn. ONLY 12 cards left in my deck
My board was blood moon, 2 bridge, many token with daretti.....

Round 4 2-1 vs Bug deck
G1 : Calice T1 then he Forced, Tezz t2 it's win
G2 : Never find something to destroy the board, i lost with 2drs
G3 : Calice T1 ok, Tezz t2 ok, my opponent played null rod and i have 2 mox and tomb, then i created 2 5/5 i win

Round 5 2-1 vs ANT

G1 : T1 calice for 1, but he cant do the combo at T3 with 2 cabal ritual
G2 : Mulli 5 and my opponent mulli 3, i lock the game with calice and transmute into golem
G3 : mulli 6, I locked the game with mephisto and dack on my opponent + golem T4 he concede

Round 6 0-2 vs Ur delver
I can't do something
G1 : dunno what my opponent played, i keep a hand without calice, then T1 1/2 prowess, T2 a second then 3 bolt ... it's lost
G2 : Mulli 6 but he have a perfect hand, Pyroblast, 2 Fow, Daze and delver for Force, he killed me faster.

Then i finished with 3-3.

Sorry for my bad English.

I love the deck, but i think i will put 2 trinisphere and just keep 1 golem, but what do you about to cut 2 toxique 1 bridge and bottle for 4 punishing fire and in the mana base i cut 2 feitch and on volcanic island.

[Sisyphos]

I think the consensus is to play 2-3 main and the rest in the side. If you don't get turn 1-2 Chalice vs. Combo you kinda just die without it.

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Not necessarily. I depends what you spend the slots you get from taking out FoW on. In my artifact heavy lists that can't support FoW, I always played more Trinispheres and Lodestones then the stock lists do. The real T1 combo decks (Belcher, Oops, etc) are rather fringe, ANT rarely actually kills on T1. Cutting FoW brings disadvantages in some matchups, but you don't just die to combo without it if you configure the rest of the deck with your lack of FoW and the amount of combo in your meta in mind.

[a tribe called trest]

Not necessarily. I depends what you spend the slots you get from taking out FoW on. In my artifact heavy lists that can't support FoW, I always played more Trinispheres and Lodestones then the stock lists do. The real T1 combo decks (Belcher, Oops, etc) are rather fringe, ANT rarely actually kills on T1. Cutting FoW brings disadvantages in some matchups, but you don't just die to combo without it if you configure the rest of the deck with your lack of FoW and the amount of combo in your meta in mind.

Anyone else think nether void seems much better positioned right now than 3ball? Hurkyls being the flavor instead of abrupt decay can lead to huge blowouts. Echoing truth nabbing a chalice on 0 and 1 is also particularly annoying.

[Davek]

Anyone else think nether void seems much better positioned right now than 3ball? Hurkyls being the flavor instead of abrupt decay can lead to huge blowouts. Echoing truth nabbing a chalice on 0 and 1 is also particularly annoying.
I was thinking the same thing. Btw i'm the guy who went 3rd in that 130 men tournament a couple of weeks ago. I was a bit disappointed about how easily storm players can actually remove all our locks in a single row (see hurkyl) and i was honestly thinking about trying leyline of sanctity in sb, which also saves you from food chain and at the very least slows aluren quite a lot. Nether void could be another viable option too.

[josallo]

I was thinking the same thing. Btw i'm the guy who went 3rd in that 130 men tournament a couple of weeks ago. I was a bit disappointed about how easily storm players can actually remove all our locks in a single row (see hurkyl) and i was honestly thinking about trying leyline of sanctity in sb, which also saves you from food chain and at the very least slows aluren quite a lot. Nether void could be another viable option too.

Hi Davek!

I'm very interested in your sideboard's plan.

Please, could you tell us how do you sideboard against the actual tier1 decks?

Lots of thanks!

[Sisyphos]

I was thinking the same thing. Btw i'm the guy who went 3rd in that 130 men tournament a couple of weeks ago. I was a bit disappointed about how easily storm players can actually remove all our locks in a single row (see hurkyl) and i was honestly thinking about trying leyline of sanctity in sb, which also saves you from food chain and at the very least slows aluren quite a lot. Nether void could be another viable option too.

If you are looking for non-artifact replacements for Trinisphere, why not play In the Eye of Chaos instead of Nether Void? It's nonsymmetrical (well at least with 90% of your deck), you save mana and a couple of hundred bucks.

[Ellomdian]

I feel like I'm having the same debate in 2 different threads...

Soft-lock components in Legacy are only as effective as the convenient answers to them. Sure, 3-sphere is amazing, unless they T1 delver and beat you to death for 5 turns before you get to cast it. Bridge is fantastic, unless they are on Storm. Wasteland/Crucible is *Fun*, except they are Burn and just kill you with some Mountains.

I find the most success with this deck happens when I can establish accelerated, moderate disruption (Chalice or Bridge,) get a threat going (Jace, Tezz or ThopterSword,) and can answer 1-2 cards that are a faster clock or represent disruption to my plan (Damnation, FoW.) The games I lose more often than not are when I try to staple together irrelevant lock pieces or simply can't find a way to win the game before my opponent establishes a critical mass to ignore what I am doing.

It really doesn't matter what Lock pieces you try to use - I have Nether Voids and Into the Eye's sitting in a binder - you need to be able to win the game after you've spent time, mana, and cards disrupting your opponent. You don't get to just build a weak prison and say 'I win!'

I feel like when I try to take out FoWs, I have significantly less game against Show decks. Bridge is great, unless they bury you in cards before they even think about attacking. MD Leyline feels like a straight-up blank against half the field. Being unable to cast 3-sphere until Turn 2 on the Draw makes it neigh-unplayable for me in the UB builds. From my testing, I feel like one of the biggest strengths of the UBR version isn't being able to play kitchy kool cards, it's being half a turn faster to the stuff you want to do midgame, after you've already disrupted your opponent.

Build your deck however you want and enjoy doing it, but don't come back and complain that you couldn't win because your opponent cast a T2 goyf (but he paid 3 for it!) and proceeded to get in the red zone for 4 turns while casting Inquisitions and Decays.

[a tribe called trest]

There was another 5-0 list on mtgo with Breya. In terms of kooky secondary win cons, wouldnt hazoret the fervent be better? Works with bridge, thopter/sword, and the abyss.

[Undomian]

Breya continually showing up in MTGO lists is almost certainly more because of people copy/pasting lists than the card actually being good. That card is still nigh impossible to cast and not as high impact as it should be.

[filln]

Breya continually showing up in MTGO lists is almost certainly more because of people copy/pasting lists than the card actually being good. That card is still nigh impossible to cast and not as high impact as it should be.

I also wouldn't underestimate the fun factor too. I would venture a guess that many players aren't planning to spike with Tezz, meaning some sub-optimal, but fun cards are often tossed in (e.g., Liquimetal Coating).

[nimkee]

I also wouldn't underestimate the fun factor too. I would venture a guess that many players aren't planning to spike with Tezz, meaning some sub-optimal, but fun cards are often tossed in (e.g., Liquimetal Coating).
Just playing devils advo here.

Who has actually tested Breya in any significant way? What about her and canonist mainboard? You can cast them using the mox diamonds or transmute for them.

Mostly interested in hearing people testing her.

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[a tribe called trest]

Just playing devils advo here.

Who has actually tested Breya in any significant way? What about her and canonist mainboard? You can cast them using the mox diamonds or transmute for them.

Mostly interested in hearing people testing her.

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I had a list a few pages back splashing white when top was still legal. The TLDR was cannonist was awesome, Breya was meh. Stacking Lodestones and countering on the stack feels comfortably better than cannonist now though in the face of hurkyls recall.

[Ellomdian]

Breya continually showing up in MTGO lists is almost certainly more because of people copy/pasting lists than the card actually being good. That card is still nigh impossible to cast and not as high impact as it should be.

Careful, with rational talk like that, you might realize that dropping R makes your mana base so much more stable... :wink:

At least I don't have to entertain this sort of malarky with UB. Without Diamonds, I don't think it's possible to have a reliable splash. And my pet card is a Planeswalker that happens to be an artifact. :cool:

[Davek]

Soft-lock components in Legacy are only as effective as the convenient answers to them. Sure, 3-sphere is amazing, unless they T1 delver and beat you to death for 5 turns before you get to cast it. Bridge is fantastic, unless they are on Storm. Wasteland/Crucible is *Fun*, except they are Burn and just kill you with some Mountains.

I find the most success with this deck happens when I can establish accelerated, moderate disruption (Chalice or Bridge,) get a threat going (Jace, Tezz or ThopterSword,) and can answer 1-2 cards that are a faster clock or represent disruption to my plan (Damnation, FoW.) The games I lose more often than not are when I try to staple together irrelevant lock pieces or simply can't find a way to win the game before my opponent establishes a critical mass to ignore what I am doing.

It really doesn't matter what Lock pieces you try to use - I have Nether Voids and Into the Eye's sitting in a binder - you need to be able to win the game after you've spent time, mana, and cards disrupting your opponent. You don't get to just build a weak prison and say 'I win!'

I feel like when I try to take out FoWs, I have significantly less game against Show decks. Bridge is great, unless they bury you in cards before they even think about attacking. MD Leyline feels like a straight-up blank against half the field. Being unable to cast 3-sphere until Turn 2 on the Draw makes it neigh-unplayable for me in the UB builds. From my testing, I feel like one of the biggest strengths of the UBR version isn't being able to play kitchy kool cards, it's being half a turn faster to the stuff you want to do midgame, after you've already disrupted your opponent.

I think i'll probably have to defend the choice of maindeck leylines... well, i have to say that since i put them maindeck i found 3 times out of 4 victory came from there. Helm kills much quicklier than any other thing this deck usually runs and as well expressed above this is a key factor. Imho Leyline turns out to be a decent live card against most of the field, because almost every fair deck runs Deathrite Shaman (42,56% of total legacy decks play it - source Mtg Goldfish), often paired with some other graveyard-based creature like goyf or angler. All control decks use at least 3 Snapcasters mage (played in 18,97% of total legacy decks), which happens to be a lot worse once leyline is in play. Then we have combo decks and in most of them a part or even their whole strategy is graveyard-focused. Reanimators fold to it g1, storm cannot win through his most relayable route, lands loses his most precious engine and dredge simply loses. Of course there are decks that are almost or totally immune to that (Sneak and show, Omnitell, Eldrazi, MUD, Goblins, Elves...) but it can't be considered a blank card, as much as you would consider a Grinstone a blank card in a Painter-stone deck. If you're running Helm, Leyline is always a part of a 2 card combo, which also may disrupt your opponent's plan.

[nimkee]

I think i'll probably have to defend the choice of maindeck leylines... well, i have to say that since i put them maindeck i found 3 times out of 4 victory came from there. Helm kills much quicklier than any other thing this deck usually runs and as well expressed above this is a key factor. Imho Leyline turns out to be a decent live card against most of the field, because almost every fair deck runs Deathrite Shaman (42,56% of total legacy decks play it - source Mtg Goldfish), often paired with some other graveyard-based creature like goyf or angler. All control decks use at least 3 Snapcasters mage (played in 18,97% of total legacy decks), which happens to be a lot worse once leyline is in play. Then we have combo decks and in most of them a part or even their whole strategy is graveyard-focused. Reanimators fold to it g1, storm cannot win through his most relayable route, lands loses his most precious engine and dredge simply loses. Of course there are decks that are almost or totally immune to that (Sneak and show, Omnitell, Eldrazi, MUD, Goblins, Elves...) but it can't be considered a blank card, as much as you would consider a Grinstone a blank card in a Painter-stone deck. If you're running Helm, Leyline is always a part of a 2 card combo, which also may disrupt your opponent's plan.
I was testing again last night and Leyline main was decent. Bridge was better than expected too as I somehow ended up in topdeck mode against czech bug and grixis multiple times. While I only got the leyline kill once out of 12 or so games it shut down a bunch of decks...with drs snappy or therapy. It also stranded gurmags in hand.

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[NetterMizuno]

So lately, because being poor and shit, i have tried more basic land heavy variant and have had better success(on internet, havent had chance to play this on paper yet but i have it at least) than the last one. Seeing opponent having 2-3 wastelands on field and no target for them does get me little giddy.
But its still pretty much budjed version of the deck but you gor to start somewhere.
Thus running stuff like Blood Moon in main(straight wins in some matchups) and having success with whir too, been thinking of adding grid on the side too. Chains and Abyss are next on my list after the Diamond that i will get. (Duals are last ones) What do you guys think of the list.

Land (24)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Inventors' Fair
3x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Sunken Hollow
2x Swamp
1x Wasteland
Instant (2)
2x Whir of Invention
Artifact (16)
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Dimir Signet
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Mox Diamond
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
3x Thopter Foundry
Planeswalker (8)
2x Dack Fayden
2x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Creature (5)
4x Baleful Strix
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
Sorcery (3)
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Transmute Artifact
Enchantment (2)
2x Blood Moon

Sideboard (15)
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Cursed Totem
1x Engineered Plague
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Helm of Obedience
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2x Pithing Needle
1x The Abyss
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Trinisphere

[nimkee]

So lately, because being poor and shit, i have tried more basic land heavy variant and have had better success(on internet, havent had chance to play this on paper yet but i have it at least) than the last one. Seeing opponent having 2-3 wastelands on field and no target for them does get me little giddy.
But its still pretty much budjed version of the deck but you gor to start somewhere.
Thus running stuff like Blood Moon in main(straight wins in some matchups) and having success with whir too, been thinking of adding grid on the side too. Chains and Abyss are next on my list after the Diamond that i will get. (Duals are last ones) What do you guys think of the list.
There was a deck that top 8d maybe 6 months ago or so that was similar. I think it ran Saheeli too but the oddest thing was no blue duals I believe. Ill look it up...its a beut. Kinda looks like he is playing his binder.

Maybe this will give you some ideas budget wise. A stable mana base is always a plus. I got wasted out of a couple games out of the last dozen I played. Bloodmoon main with sol lands and diamonds main is also sweet. Im tempted to brew around that myself but it feels dragon stompy-ish. How many moons are you running?

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14289&d=285273&f=LE

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[NetterMizuno]

The list in quote is the deck i run and currently i have setled to 2 moons in main. 3 felt too much.

[nimkee]

The list in quote is the deck i run and currently i have setled to 2 moons in main. 3 felt too much.
I tested Breya with that crazy unstable manabase last night...and it t7rns out stabler than I thought. She put in some serious work. I also turn 2d her. T1 stryx into t2 transmute and a sol land.

Tezz placed 2nd in the legacy challenge. 4 dack 3 tezz 2 daretti build with a lmc main. Spice-E. It was running dustbowl too which seemed odd.



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[nimkee]

I tested Breya with that crazy unstable manabase last night...and it t7rns out stabler than I thought. She put in some serious work. I also turn 2d her. T1 stryx into t2 transmute and a sol land.

Tezz placed 2nd in the legacy challenge. 4 dack 3 tezz 2 daretti build with a lmc main. Spice-E. It was running dustbowl too which seemed odd.



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Breya in action:

https://youtu.be/rZHPF_q--7k

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[Cyanhur]

Breya in action:

https://youtu.be/rZHPF_q--7k

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Thanks for you video. I Watched it can you tell your deck liste ?

[nimkee]

Thanks for you video. I Watched it can you tell your deck liste ?

I mostly just copied VoxVornVoltair's list from reddit, or the parts that I had. I didn't have the whipflare (I know they are somewhere...) so I added another bridge, a Padeem, and I cut one golem for a trinisphere.

I like this list a lot. I am going to try that Legacy Challenge list on Thursday to compare and see which I like better. I am decent-ish with Tezzeret, but I felt sort of lost playing Breya. She gives you a ton of different options once on board and I think I through a couple of games in the tournament away with her on board.

2 Transmute Artifact
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Dimir Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Academy Ruins
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Badlands
1 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland
1 Breya, Etherium Shaper
4 Baleful Strix
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Dack Fayden

Sideboard
2 Blood Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Notion Thief
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 The Abyss
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Trinisphere
1 Padeem

[Ellomdian]

I tested Breya with that crazy unstable manabase last night...and it t7rns out stabler than I thought. She put in some serious work. I also turn 2d her. T1 stryx into t2 transmute and a sol land.

Must be nice to live in a world where you are the only one in the room playing Wasteland... :wink:

[Cyanhur]

Someone is D2? At Vegas??

We have someone at the 2nd place at mtgo legacy challenge.

[nimkee]

Must be nice to live in a world where you are the only one in the room playing Wasteland... :wink:
Actually my meta is full of them so I often ditch one of the oddball duals to a diamond. With 4 diamonds and the other fun of duals it was surprisingly easy to cast her. Im on a ridiculously good streak against 4c loam. That maverick match was a bit tight but I squeezed it out despite his timely wastelands.

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[nimkee]

Must be nice to live in a world where you are the only one in the room playing Wasteland... :wink:
I switched to a daretti build with lmc last night. The manabase IS smoother, and has some awesome plays. T1 sword of the meek into t2 daretti is amazing. Or lmc plus daretti or dack. The raw power of untapping with breya is real though. I twelved someone to the dome the other night.



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[Ephemeron]

For people who are playing Breya, I'd be interested in some more information on the card. I think we can all agree that just based on raw power, it more than meets the threshold for playability. If it cost 2UB I think we'd all probably make some room for at least one copy in the deck. So to ascertain the cost/reward nature of it's hideous mana cost, I'm curious about the following:

1. How many times did you hardcast Breya (as opposed to Transmuting for it)?

2. Related to 1, how many times did you draw Breya and have it rot in your hand (or discarded it to Dack or something) because you didn't have the mana to cast it?

3. If you Transmuted for it, in your opinion, was Breya the best card you could've gotten or would another card have been roughly as good in that situation (i.e., Ensnaring Bridge, Thopter/Sword, Liquidmetal Coating, etc.)?

[Cyanhur]

I did a paper tornament yesterday.
I lost in final vs BUG control.

I did 5-2, results :

win 2-1 vs miracle
win 2-1 vs slivoïde
win 2-0 vs Sneak and show
Lost 0-2 vs grixis delver
win 2-0 vs UB reanimator
Win 2-0 vs MUD
Lost 0-2 vs BUG control

I am enjoy about my result, next week i have the belgium Cup trial.
My only problem is "JACE". I dont know how can i win when my opponent can cast jace.
What is the solution with grixis Tezz? I am playing liquid to take the control but i really want something vs jace.

My sideboard was :

1 Trini
1 Golem
2 pyroclasm (i will change one pyro for one whipflare)
2 toxic deluge
1 Force
3 Leyline
2 Blood moon
1 EE
1 Abyss
1 Méphisto

Maybe i can cut one pyro for Notion or revoker?

[Undomian]

When you lose to a Jace, you've usually instead lost to all of the cards that lead up to it. Jace just happens to be the best way to actually kill you in those kinds of decks.

[Davek]

I'm testing a singleton Phyrexian Revoker md which also offers a little help against jace... it's a nice card and i appreciate its versatility

[nimkee]

I tried out the grixis super-friends with Daretti and Dack in addition to Tezz and Jace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLCYXywXZm8

It was pretty good. My opponent punted a few times but against other midrange or non-combo decks grixis superfriends felt great. I only had 3 dack so I added a jace too.

[gibsonjunkie]

nimkee, what's your decklist if you don't mind my asking?

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[hoernchen]

The more I play with the deck the more the importance of Dack is showing up to me. Interssingly I got a suggestion from a friend this week and now I am trying Lim-Dûl's Vault as a 2off at the moment. Anyone ever tried it out and has some experience with it?

[quantumactivist]

Hi all just played a 100+ win-a-mox with our old friend tezz. Started strong 3-0 but wheels fell off due to mulligan errors and 1 maybe misplay for a 3-3. Field was pretty tough lot of well known east coast legacy grinders. Deck was great.

I played mb Leyline/helm instead of thopter sword as Baltimore has loads of lands/Aggro Loam/ reanimator. Also not playing fows mb in favor of trinispheres. Also playing a spicy 1-of liquimetal coating for my 3x dack 2x daretti ( more on this later). Also to note , 2x blood moon side. My reasoning for no thopter sword was that it's slow and I was expecting a lot of faster decks. Also on 3x bridge

Rnd 1: 2-1 - Aggro loam
G1 - Get waste locked
G2 - he mulligans
G3 -t1 blood moon ;)

Rnd 2: Ub reanimator 2-0
G1 - I bridge/tezz. He cantrips, plays an island/bayou and scoops. I think he's on bug and board in moons

G2 - I Leyline/bridge and he durdles. I finally see that he's on reanimator. He inexplicably griselbrands down to 4 and I have an active tezzeret at 5 :) . Got lucky

Rnd 3 - esper stoneblade 2-1

G1 - he has an early stoneforge and an answer to bridge

G2 - long game that I win off tezz beats. Chalice does work as well as deluge to kill true names

G3 - I bait out a few counterspells and land a blood moon which he loses to

Rnd 4: rb reanimator 1-2

Paired against one of my friends.

G1 - get there with bridge/ chalice
G2 - I have turn 0 Leyline. He hardcasts sire on t1 :(
G3 - long drawn out game where I kept a chalice hand and he has loads of interaction (he plays white with wear/tear and celestial purge) . Game goes long but he gets there through a bridge with tidespout

I should've been much more aggressive with mulligans and the sb force of wills were horrible here.

Rnd 5 - grixis delver 0-2

Grixis Delver has to be one of the worst matchups unless you land an early chalice. Kcommand fucking Owns you. Lose easily trying to play around daze . This matchup probably needs some sb slots as its so popular.

Rnd 5 - lands

Lands is a great matchup however I think I misplayed in G3. Got a little greedy and was probably a little fatigued :/

G1 - get wasted out
G2- he can't beat bridge and Leyline
G3- soooo long story short I have Leyline in play, 6 mana, transmute, diabolical edict in hand. He has depths, stage, grove. I decide to tap out to get helm with no mana floating. if I whiff next turn on a mana source I wont be able to kill him. He crop rotates for an ancient tomb and kills me.

Some thoughts : FOW doesn't seem necessary in a build without thopter/sword. A lot of ppl brought in gy hate thinking I had it. Leyline was fantastic and definitely fits in more stax-y builds like mine. Daretti was very underwhelming and I'm thinking about cutting it entirely along with the liquimetal coating which was blank cardboard a lot of the time . Tempo decks deserve a significant portion of the sb I think. I want to cut the arcane lab and force of wills from the sb for more ways to interact the board. I was testing a fire covenant sb but never saw it.

I'm on my phone but I'll post my decklist if ppl r interested.

Deck was great would definitely run it back. Seeing ppl sweat over their cantrips all day made me so happy to be playing a chalice deck :)

Happy tezz- ing



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[Ephemeron]

Oh damn, were you at the MTGFirst Mox Sapphire tourney? I was playing Tezz there too, thought I'd be the only one.

[quantumactivist]

Ya lol didn't see you! How'd u do?


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[quantumactivist]

TBH don't really know exact numbers but tourney was great


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[Ephemeron]

Ya lol didn't see you! How'd u do?


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Poorly hah. 1-3 drop. L vs. Sneak and Show, W vs. 12Post, L vs. Shardless, L vs. Burn = call it a day early. Just didn't get the draws I needed when I needed them and lost too many die rolls, the pain of playing a chalice deck. I did go home and jam some MTGO and killed a man with Nicol Bolas, God Pharaoh, so that was cool, maybe the first time in Legacy haha. My only regret was going 4-1 in the league, I wanted the list posted so bad.

MTG First always does an excellent job with their events though, looking forward to the upcoming Emerald one.

[Lavamane]

Hello, everyone.

I have lurked this forum for years now and I have finally decided to contribute. My name is Ryan Burk and if you've ever watched one of the now-deceased South Florida Magic Sunday Legacy streams, you've probably seen me pilot this deck to moderate success while making a ton of play-errors and mistakes due to being massively hungover. I have played this deck for over 5 years. My highest achievement was going 9-1 during Grand Prix New Jersey a few years ago. I miss the Treasure Cruise era, but I digress.

While the Grixis builds seem fun and innovative, I honestly think in the state of the current meta, that returning to U/B is integral to being successful with this deck. I know, Dack Fayden is amazing, but I really think the deck loses a lot of what made it great in its original incarnation, an extremely stable mana base. With the rise of all of these Grixis/Deathrite Shaman derivatives and the steady rise in the popularity of Death and Taxes, I feel that the deck loses a lot. Additionally, a lot of the Grixis Tezz builds run Wasteland to be used in concert with Crucible of Worlds. I feel that as Deathrite Shaman's prevalency stays constant, this strategy becomes less useful. Wasteland always was a great tool in keeping our deck from casting the large cmc (by Legacy standards) spells that get us ahead, whereas Wasteland vs. the majority of decks in the top-tier is not quite as useful as they can lean on Shaman to cast the majority of spells in their deck. It helps them cast Gurmag Angler as well.

I have also tried removing Thopter/Sword combo. I know, this sounds insane at first, but hear me out. I have lost plenty of games from being unable to interact effectively with my opponent's board presence, or simply not being able to string together the resources to make the combo happen. I have also lost while having the combo online and my opponent having a solution to get past it, or win while ignoring it altogether. I still recognize that when it does happen, sword combo is hugely advantageous. The metagame has shifted significantly since the banning of Top and I wanted to pivot the deck in a way to better fight against what's out there.

The removal of Transmute Artifact was perhaps the hardest choice to make for my current version. We all know how powerful tutors are, especially in eternal formats, but we must also recognize that Transmute is definitively card disadvantage. We are 2-for-1-ing ourselves to tutor for an answer. We still end up paying full price for what we get in a roundabout manner, and it has a restrictive mana cost, UU. It's sorcery speed. It does not guarantee that your opponent does not already have an answer for what you get. When you have a ton of mana and signets, the card is amazing. When it is stranded in your hand because you don't have an artifact already in play, can't afford to pay for what you will tutor, or cannot produce UU, the card is useless. I am currently testing consistency over raw power and liking it.

That being said, I have added new additions to the deck. I welcome your thoughts and criticism here as a lot of it seems a little outlandish at first.

Supreme Will
Yes, the Hour of Devastation draft pick. The Impulse effect we get off of its first mode goes a long way for this deck. Often, I find that I would lock up the game with an early Chalice of the Void or Ensnaring Bridge and then topdeck turn after turn waiting for a way to end the game, giving my opponent valuable time to find an answer. I also recognize the deck's variance in making its land drops. The biggest way we lose is by being unable to cast our haymakers. In the short time I have been testing this card, Impulsing to make the correct land drop has led me to win a number of games. At first glance this may not seem like the best use of this card's resources, but think of how many times a player will cast a Ponder hoping to make a land drop. I have chosen this over Thirst for Knowledge because of the rise of Leovold, Emissary of Trest. Supreme Will does not draw these cards.

By now you are probably asking yourself "Why not just use Impluse?" Yes, Impulse is 1 mana cheaper to cast, but the second mode of Supreme Will also matters. Now that I am not running ThopterSword, I see that I am much more vulnerable to Burn, which can already be something of a headache for this deck. More often than not, I am able to produce 3 mana by turn 2, allowing me to counter problem cards like Eidolon of the Great Revel, Price of Progress, or Sulfuric Vortex. Burn is usually a deck that loses to its own inconsistencies. They get stuck on 1 or 2 mana frequently, or flood out with 5 or 6 mountains in the mid-to-late game, unable to finish those last points of damage. Aggressive use of Supreme Will to counter their early plays has proven to be an effective tool to defeat them as we become much more favored to win as the game goes longer.

The same can be said of our matchup against Sneak and Show, a notoriously awful pairing. Previously, I found myself thinking "have Ensnaring Bridge immediately or lose." Chalice of the Void is only effective when they are making use of their high number of cantrips to assemble their combo. Aside from those, its Force of Will or bust, which almost always gets met with a Force of Will of their own. Supreme Will, at the very least, gives us another layer of protection that they will not expect. I did some initial testing of this and it seemed to even the playing field by a noticeable degree, but still did not put us over the edge. Some decks will just always have a tough matchup.

Walking Ballista
I liked this card as soon as it was spoiled. I wanted to find a way to incorporate it into the deck right away. Then, I saw this MTG Goldfish article (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-tailoring-removal-a4bc46de-b786-44b3-b79d-983a0455e00b) and jumped on it. It has proven itself time and time again. I am always satisfied to see one of these when plussing my Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and am even more pleased when I have an Academy Ruins in play. It interacts with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' minus ability, instantly creating a massive ping-machine that you can continually sink mana into if you have nothing better to do. It kills Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, and Young Pyromancer very easily. I love this card to death. I have killed 5 creatures in a single turn with it during a grinder of a match with a Death and Taxes player. This card is a beast.

Umezawa's Jitte
It's an artifact. We can find it easily with our deck. We can attach it to Baleful Strix, Walking Ballista, or a random 5/5 we've made with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. It controls the board. It ends games. It keeps us alive by gaining us life when we need it to. It's been great so far. There is a reason why this card continues to be a mainstay of the format.

Thopter Spy Network
Going deep here. It serves as a token machine to be used in unison with Umezawa's Jitte, or to chump block attackers to keep ourselves, or a planeswalker alive. It's a card-draw engine. It also has proven itself useful against Lands. Now that I am no longer running ThopterSword, getting nugged by a Marit Lage becomes a liability. I'm still undecided on this one, but I like it so far. Enchantment removal rarely shows itself anyways.

Karn Liberated
We make a ton of mana. Why not cast a giant, stupid-powerful planeswalker to help control the board, or hurt your opponent's hand? Karn rules.

If interested, I can make an addendum to include my sideboard choices, but I feel like I have already taken a lot of your time and they mostly speak for themselves.

Most of you have probably skimmed past most of the content I've written so far, which is cool, I guess. I won't leave you hanging. Here's what you really want: a decklist!

TEZZERATOR 2: BALLISTA DAY

Lands
x4 Ancient Tomb
x4 Polluted Delta
x3 Underground Sea
x2 Island
x2 Inventor's Fair
x2 Seat of the Synod
x1 Vault of Whispers
x1 Academy Ruins
x1 Swamp
x1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
x1 City of Traitors

Creatures
x4 Walking Ballista
x4 Baleful Strix

Planeswalkers
x4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
x2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
x1 Karn Liberated

Enchantments
x1 The Abyss
x1 Thopter Spy Network

Instants and Sorceries
x4 Force of Will
x4 Supreme Will

Artifacts (Non-creature)
x4 Chalice of the Void
x4 Dimir Signet
x2 Talisman of Dominance
x2 Ensnaring Bridge
x1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
Disclaimer: This sideboard is tailored to my local meta. I would make changes to this before competing in a larger event

x1 Helm of Obedience
x4 Leyline of the Void
x1 Trinishpere
x1 Notion Thief
x3 Lodestone Golem
x1 Dread of Night
x2 Toxic Deluge
x1 Grip of Phyresis (Mega lols vs. Stoneblade and Death and Taxes decks)
x1 Torpor Orb

There we have it! I'm glad we made this journey together, or something like that. I can post tournament reports and deeper analysis if there's enough interest. Thank you for your time!

[quantumactivist]

I like ballista a lot. Delver is a bad matchup and it seems great there.

I get your reasoning for going ub but dack and moons are tough for me to personally cut

I also really like the Jitte idea. We need ways to interact the board more besides deluge and strix

Supreme will is .... spicy . Don't really know what to think would have to test it. Seems better in ub



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lavamane2]

Hello, everyone.

I have lurked this forum for years now and I have finally decided to contribute. My name is Ryan Burk and if you've ever watched one of the now-deceased South Florida Magic Sunday Legacy streams, you've probably seen me pilot this deck to moderate success while making a ton of play-errors and mistakes due to being massively hungover. I have played this deck for over 5 years. My highest achievement was going 9-1 during Grand Prix New Jersey a few years ago. I miss the Treasure Cruise era, but I digress.

While the Grixis builds seem fun and innovative, I honestly think in the state of the current meta, that returning to U/B is integral to being successful with this deck. I know, Dack Fayden is amazing, but I really think the deck loses a lot of what made it great in its original incarnation, an extremely stable mana base. With the rise of all of these Grixis/Deathrite Shaman derivatives and the steady rise in the popularity of Death and Taxes, I feel that the deck loses a lot. Additionally, a lot of the Grixis Tezz builds run Wasteland to be used in concert with Crucible of Worlds. I feel that as Deathrite Shaman's prevalency stays constant, this strategy becomes less useful. Wasteland always was a great tool in keeping our deck from casting the large cmc (by Legacy standards) spells that get us ahead, whereas Wasteland vs. the majority of decks in the top-tier is not quite as useful as they can lean on Shaman to cast the majority of spells in their deck. It helps them cast Gurmag Angler as well.

This is all fine and well reasoned. The Grixis builds are powerful and get access to strong red tools but the UB builds are more explosive and take over the game much more convincingly in my opinion. Your view that we don't want to be on wasteland is also well reasoned and you had obviously thought it out. I agree wholeheartedly here.


I have also tried removing Thopter/Sword combo. I know, this sounds insane at first, but hear me out. I have lost plenty of games from being unable to interact effectively with my opponent's board presence, or simply not being able to string together the resources to make the combo happen. I have also lost while having the combo online and my opponent having a solution to get past it, or win while ignoring it altogether. I still recognize that when it does happen, sword combo is hugely advantageous. The metagame has shifted significantly since the banning of Top and I wanted to pivot the deck in a way to better fight against what's out there.

You're right, Thopter Combo doesn't always lock up the game. There's situations in which you have it online and just can't stabilize hard enough with it, or you're sitting there with a Sword of the Meek but no Foundry and wondering where you've gone wrong in life. It's my opinion that 3 slots should be devoted to it nonetheless. While there are some games it doesn't lock up, it does lock up the vast majority of them. Thopter Foundry is also just very, very strong by itself. And you're right, the meta HAS shifted. Thopter Foundry is really quite strong at most of the meta decks right now. A steady stream of blockers, less abrupt decays running around, lifegain, and when push comes to shove it just flat out overwhelms creature based strategies. Thopter Combo wasn't your best weapon against Miracles in the first place either; your planeswalkers were. Thopter Combo is there as a 'I win' button against most of the fair, creature based matchups - and the fair, creature based matchups are everywhere right now!


The removal of Transmute Artifact was perhaps the hardest choice to make for my current version. We all know how powerful tutors are, especially in eternal formats, but we must also recognize that Transmute is definitively card disadvantage. We are 2-for-1-ing ourselves to tutor for an answer. We still end up paying full price for what we get in a roundabout manner, and it has a restrictive mana cost, UU. It's sorcery speed. It does not guarantee that your opponent does not already have an answer for what you get. When you have a ton of mana and signets, the card is amazing. When it is stranded in your hand because you don't have an artifact already in play, can't afford to pay for what you will tutor, or cannot produce UU, the card is useless. I am currently testing consistency over raw power and liking it.

There is an argument for taking Transmute out of the deck and you hit a few key points of it. Like sure, if you're going to stick by your guns and cut Thopter Combo obviously a big reason to run Transmute goes out the window. However, transmutes aren't there to just turn a signet into a Foundry. They're there for when you realize you're playing against Lands t1g1 when they go Forest -> Exploration -> Mox Diamond -> Wooded Foothills -> Loam and now you're sitting there knowing how you have to play your next few turns to 1. Play around wasteland and 2. Turn this Talisman and Transmute you have in your hand into a Bridge and just win the game. Transmute is there to give you options and outs that are in the whole of your deck when you can assess the situation and use the card accordingly. Yes, I could Supreme Will to dig for a Bridge in the same exact scenario, or maybe delay them by countering the inevitably dredged loam, or hell it might even find something cool like a Tezzeret or Jace! Both cards have their downsides, I don't think Supreme Will is in the same real of power level as Transmute is though and I don't think it's where the deck wants to be in terms of trying to increase consistency. At it's heart UB Tezzerator is a tap out control deck that utilizes lock piece artifacts and planeswalkers to lock the opponent out of the game. It's why force is so powerful in our deck, we're consistently tapping out on our turn to try to put shit into play to make our opponents lives miserable. Supreme Will doesn't really further that play mentality in the least and actually just encourages more reactive based play. If you're on the back foot with Tezzerator you're typically having a bad time.

Transmute is also there for post board. Typically a Tezz sideboard will bring in powerful situational artifacts out of the board to help deal with specific matchups or strategies. Transmute goes and finds those cards for you and honestly THIS is what cinches me on the card. You're able to take those silver bullet answers you've brought in and find them, consistently, because that's what the card literally says to do. Also, if you're not on Transmute I think a big reason to run Helm Leyline combo is null and we can probably find better ways to combat grave strategies that use less slots.


That being said, I have added new additions to the deck. I welcome your thoughts and criticism here as a lot of it seems a little outlandish at first.

Supreme Will
Yes, the Hour of Devastation draft pick. The Impulse effect we get off of its first mode goes a long way for this deck. Often, I find that I would lock up the game with an early Chalice of the Void or Ensnaring Bridge and then topdeck turn after turn waiting for a way to end the game, giving my opponent valuable time to find an answer. I also recognize the deck's variance in making its land drops. The biggest way we lose is by being unable to cast our haymakers. In the short time I have been testing this card, Impulsing to make the correct land drop has led me to win a number of games. At first glance this may not seem like the best use of this card's resources, but think of how many times a player will cast a Ponder hoping to make a land drop. I have chosen this over Thirst for Knowledge because of the rise of Leovold, Emissary of Trest. Supreme Will does not draw these cards.

By now you are probably asking yourself "Why not just use Impluse?" Yes, Impulse is 1 mana cheaper to cast, but the second mode of Supreme Will also matters. Now that I am not running ThopterSword, I see that I am much more vulnerable to Burn, which can already be something of a headache for this deck. More often than not, I am able to produce 3 mana by turn 2, allowing me to counter problem cards like Eidolon of the Great Revel, Price of Progress, or Sulfuric Vortex. Burn is usually a deck that loses to its own inconsistencies. They get stuck on 1 or 2 mana frequently, or flood out with 5 or 6 mountains in the mid-to-late game, unable to finish those last points of damage. Aggressive use of Supreme Will to counter their early plays has proven to be an effective tool to defeat them as we become much more favored to win as the game goes longer.

The same can be said of our matchup against Sneak and Show, a notoriously awful pairing. Previously, I found myself thinking "have Ensnaring Bridge immediately or lose." Chalice of the Void is only effective when they are making use of their high number of cantrips to assemble their combo. Aside from those, its Force of Will or bust, which almost always gets met with a Force of Will of their own. Supreme Will, at the very least, gives us another layer of protection that they will not expect. I did some initial testing of this and it seemed to even the playing field by a noticeable degree, but still did not put us over the edge. Some decks will just always have a tough matchup.

The only redeeming quality about this card is as you mentioned it puts a card into your hand rather than drawing a card for when you're staring down a Leovold. There's obviously going to be other cases where this edges out Thirst as well; but there's something to be said about putting three new cards in your hand and discarding any cards - whether they be ones that were drawn or cards that were already there. Maybe it is the real deal, but I find it extremely hard for that to be the case as a four of. I'd shave down to two if I were you and find just inherently stronger cards to put in the newly created slots.


Walking Ballista
I liked this card as soon as it was spoiled. I wanted to find a way to incorporate it into the deck right away. Then, I saw this MTG Goldfish article (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-tailoring-removal-a4bc46de-b786-44b3-b79d-983a0455e00b) and jumped on it. It has proven itself time and time again. I am always satisfied to see one of these when plussing my Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and am even more pleased when I have an Academy Ruins in play. It interacts with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' minus ability, instantly creating a massive ping-machine that you can continually sink mana into if you have nothing better to do. It kills Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, and Young Pyromancer very easily. I love this card to death. I have killed 5 creatures in a single turn with it during a grinder of a match with a Death and Taxes player. This card is a beast.

Card is amazing. I continually change my numbers around on this card between 1, 2, and 3. I've never ran four of them.


Umezawa's Jitte
It's an artifact. We can find it easily with our deck. We can attach it to Baleful Strix, Walking Ballista, or a random 5/5 we've made with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. It controls the board. It ends games. It keeps us alive by gaining us life when we need it to. It's been great so far. There is a reason why this card continues to be a mainstay of the format.

Umezawa's Jitte will always be a good card in a wide variety of situations. I cut it from my list because while really strong I believe in diversifying the ways to win the game within the deck. Some of the best ways to combat our deck are things such as Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Revoker, Abrupt Decay, and other activated ability or artifact hate cards. Umezawa's Jitte passes none of those tests sadly and so while it is quite strong and will sometimes just win the game, I let it go in favor of cards that did pass those tests.


Thopter Spy Network
Going deep here. It serves as a token machine to be used in unison with Umezawa's Jitte, or to chump block attackers to keep ourselves, or a planeswalker alive. It's a card-draw engine. It also has proven itself useful against Lands. Now that I am no longer running ThopterSword, getting nugged by a Marit Lage becomes a liability. I'm still undecided on this one, but I like it so far. Enchantment removal rarely shows itself anyways.

Meh. This should probably just be your 3rd Jace. Don't get me wrong, I think the card is sweet and all, I was super hyped for it on release because I wanted it to be good. It's just not though. Look at it this way, if you're not running Transmutes because you're "scared about UU" and "what if you don't have an artifact in play" then why are you running this card?


Karn Liberated
We make a ton of mana. Why not cast a giant, stupid-powerful planeswalker to help control the board, or hurt your opponent's hand? Karn rules.

Karn is sweet. Karn is powerful and if he hits the table you're probably going to win. This just isn't a meta where it's worth having a 7 mana walker in your hand that possibly just gets stranded there because your opponent is a wasteland deathrite deck and you're on two jaces and 0 thirsts and lacking ways to turn him into something else. I would run him if I could pitch him to force. I unfortunately can't however and I personally find that to be very lame.


If interested, I can make an addendum to include my sideboard choices, but I feel like I have already taken a lot of your time and they mostly speak for themselves.

Most of you have probably skimmed past most of the content I've written so far, which is cool, I guess. I won't leave you hanging. Here's what you really want: a decklist!

TEZZERATOR 2: BALLISTA DAY

Lands
x4 Ancient Tomb
x4 Polluted Delta
x3 Underground Sea
x2 Island
x2 Inventor's Fair
x2 Seat of the Synod
x1 Vault of Whispers
x1 Academy Ruins
x1 Swamp
x1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
x1 City of Traitors

Creatures
x4 Walking Ballista
x4 Baleful Strix

Planeswalkers
x4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
x2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
x1 Karn Liberated

Enchantments
x1 The Abyss
x1 Thopter Spy Network

Instants and Sorceries
x4 Force of Will
x4 Supreme Will

Artifacts (Non-creature)
x4 Chalice of the Void
x4 Dimir Signet
x2 Talisman of Dominance
x2 Ensnaring Bridge
x1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
Disclaimer: This sideboard is tailored to my local meta. I would make changes to this before competing in a larger event

x1 Helm of Obedience
x4 Leyline of the Void
x1 Trinishpere
x1 Notion Thief
x3 Lodestone Golem
x1 Dread of Night
x2 Toxic Deluge
x1 Grip of Phyresis (Mega lols vs. Stoneblade and Death and Taxes decks)
x1 Torpor Orb

There we have it! I'm glad we made this journey together, or something like that. I can post tournament reports and deeper analysis if there's enough interest. Thank you for your time!

Here are the changes I'd make to your list while trying to keep to the spirit of the direction you've taken it:
-1 Walking Ballista
-1 The Abyss
-1 Thopter Spy Network
-2 Supreme Will
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Karn Liberated
-1 Inventor's Fair
-1 Seat of the Synod
-2 Dimir Signet

1. Take out Walking Ballista because you don't want to see an excess amount of them.
2. I used to be a staunch believer in The Abyss, but its not great in the current meta. Boardwipes are just better right now - especially with TNN being as prevalent as he is.
3. See above about Thopter Spy Network
4. You can turn these into cards that do more for you in the long run.
5. It's a great card, I've witnessed it do wonders in the deck, I think there's cards that do more in the same slot.
6. Karn is too slow and doesn't make up for it by being able to be pitched to force.
7. Inventor's Fair is too slow as well. Maybe its what the deck needs if you're not running Transmutes, but I'm still not convinced that not running transmutes is correct.
8. Seat and Inventor's fair were mainly taken out to make room for two City of Traitors.
9. The two extra Signets should ~probably~ be Mox Diamonds. UB isn't a 4 Mox Diamond sort of deck, but I love two in it.

I'm not going to tell you what to add because if I had my choice I'd just turn it into my personal list.

I am going to suggest that you try with 2 Deluge's in the main board. Cutting Notion Thief and a Loadstone and running 4x Thought-Knot's in the board. Cut another land for the fourth City of Traitors. Find room for the 3rd Jace. Play around with Vendillion Clique in the main. Cut Grip of Phyresis and find room for a Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker in your board. I know this leaves a lot of slots still open in the mainboard. I am confident that if you still do not want to play Transmutes or Thopter Combo you can find cards better suited to take those slots than the ones you are currently using. I'd suggest you look at Liliana of the Veil to start with. She might not pass many of the tests that I tried to get Jitte to pass, but she's like Jace in that she's powerful without any help from anything else. She doesn't need an artifact in play or a creature to attach to. I'm not currently running her, but I'd mess around with two if I were you. I've used her in the past to great affect. If you do go back to Transmutes or Thopter Combo, you don't need to go deep on them. I'm confident that the correct numbers for the combo are two foundries and one sword. You don't always want or need them, but foundry is amazing by itself a lot of the time - the life and a couple 1/1 flyers can go a long way. One thing to keep in mind with Transmutes vs Supreme will is mana intensiveness. If you're trying to find and cast a bridge with SW that's a required 5 mana if you NEED to do it that turn. If you're trying to transmute into bridge you need 3 to 5 and an artifact. They also can't stop ETB's from whatever comes into play from transmute and that can catch people off guard. Transmuting for a Revoker or Needle can be back breaking because it's just not on people's radar most of the time.

I have to go do other shit now so I'm going to end this fairly abruptly. If you have any questions I'd be happy to give you more detailed reasoning over any of my suggestions or comments either here or on fb.

[Lavamane]

Thanks for the constructive criticism, my dude. I appreciate that this didn't just degenerate into an "I'm right, you're wrong," back-and-forth. You've made some great points and I will incorporate a few of them.

I really like having 4 Thought-Not Seers in the SB. That's gas and works against a wide range of decks. Solid advice.

I really want to keep Jitte in the main. It's outperformed my expectations and works exceptionally well at what it does.

I agree with cutting Karn and Spy Network. I saw them in a couple of lists that made top 8 at some Japanese tournaments a while ago. I got on the hype train, but the points you make check out.

I had considered cutting 1 Supreme Will. There were a few occasions where I had 1 or even 2 in my hand that I just never had to cast. Like, my hand was full of gas and I had a Tezzeret on the board already with a Force of Will in hand. I like running 3, 2 I'm a little cold on, but would consider.

I've thought about putting Trading Post in. I love that card. It turns your duplicate Chalice of the Voids and Signets into fresh cards to see, or are discarded to gain life. It synergizes with Walking Ballista as it can get them back from the graveyard. It even makes goats! Goats are adorable and I love them.

I still am pretty cold on Transmute. The arguments for using it are solid and stand against the scrutiny, but why not use Tezzeret the Seeker instead? It costs 5, but whatever. It's a tutor machine, ramps mana, gives artifact creatures bad vigilance, and gives a double activation on Trading Post. It's a 5-mana autowin when you're running Helmline. I really like it.

Padeem has also caught my attention. I just don't like the fact that she eats a Swords to Plowshares at 4 mana. This would help in instances where you're playing against Lands and want to give your Ensnaring Bridge hexproof. She's great versus Burn as well. No Smash to Smithereens, no Searing Blood on your Baleful Strix, high toughness.

4 is the correct number of Walking Ballista. From my experience, there is never an instance where I think I have seen too many (except versus combo decks). It's usefulness is insane.

I think 6 signets is where I want to be. Are you saying to run 24 lands instead? That's probably okay. I don't like running Mox Diamond in UB at all. It's another source of card disadvantage in a deck that does not have a way to make up for it with Loam or Crucible. I'm firm on this one.

I want the Abyss to be broken like it used to be, but TNN being able to dodge it really does hurt it so much. This is probably correct.

I'll make some changes and do an in-depth report at my next tournament, which is Legacy FNM this Friday at Coolstuff Games Hollywood. If you're in the area come hang.

[Ephemeron]

Are you having a back and forth discussion with yourself?

[quantumactivist]

Ya I was wondering that too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lavamane]

Are you having a back and forth discussion with yourself?

No. That person's name is lavamane2. Learn to read.

[Ephemeron]

No. That person's name is lavamane2. Learn to read.

ok bud

[a tribe called trest]

Hello, everyone.

While the Grixis builds seem fun and innovative, I honestly think in the state of the current meta, that returning to U/B is integral to being successful with this deck. I know, Dack Fayden is amazing, but I really think the deck loses a lot of what made it great in its original incarnation, an extremely stable mana base. With the rise of all of these Grixis/Deathrite Shaman derivatives and the steady rise in the popularity of Death and Taxes, I feel that the deck loses a lot. Additionally, a lot of the Grixis Tezz builds run Wasteland to be used in concert with Crucible of Worlds. I feel that as Deathrite Shaman's prevalency stays constant, this strategy becomes less useful. Wasteland always was a great tool in keeping our deck from casting the large cmc (by Legacy standards) spells that get us ahead, whereas Wasteland vs. the majority of decks in the top-tier is not quite as useful as they can lean on Shaman to cast the majority of spells in their deck. It helps them cast Gurmag Angler as well.




I agree with the idea grixis probably isn't great at wastelanding people out of the game right now with all the DRS. I'm off it completely. Once youre off it though, you can easily make a reasonable manabase out of grixis. EX

24x lands

4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Island
2x Swamp
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Academy Ruins


No Wastelands and 8 fetchlands gives you the option of going extremely greedy on duals, or extremely conservative on duals to play around wasteland/blood moon. I skew conservative so I can comfortably add the bigger sources of card advantage like the abyss and Keranos in the board. My biggest gripe with straight U/B is it cant leverage its manabase to run Engineered Explosives as effectively. True name/Leovold are both nuisances and EE deals with them.


Love the Grip of Phyresis

[quantumactivist]

So I've been testing Walking Ballista and it's been performing really well.

Helps out a lot in some of our unfavorable matchups like Delver/DnT

Sick with Tezz minus

Good late game threat.

It's obviously not great in unfair matchups. Do people think this is better in the sb? I have mine mb as I'm not playing thopter sword and having more win cons is nice

Also intrigued if ppl have any words on the white splash / Breya for grindy matchups. I've been dreaming of adding stoneforges to the deck but can't get around the greedy mana base. We're so greedy already !

Any thoughts ? Thanks!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lavamane]

I agree with the idea grixis probably isn't great at wastelanding people out of the game right now with all the DRS. I'm off it completely. Once youre off it though, you can easily make a reasonable manabase out of grixis. EX

24x lands

4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Island
2x Swamp
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Academy Ruins


No Wastelands and 8 fetchlands gives you the option of going extremely greedy on duals, or extremely conservative on duals to play around wasteland/blood moon. I skew conservative so I can comfortably add the bigger sources of card advantage like the abyss and Keranos in the board. My biggest gripe with straight U/B is it cant leverage its manabase to run Engineered Explosives as effectively. True name/Leovold are both nuisances and EE deals with them.


Love the Grip of Phyresis

I mean, so does Toxic Deluge. It's just a shame it isn't an artifact

[Lavamane]

So I've been testing Walking Ballista and it's been performing really well.

Helps out a lot in some of our unfavorable matchups like Delver/DnT

Sick with Tezz minus

Good late game threat.

It's obviously not great in unfair matchups. Do people think this is better in the sb? I have mine mb as I'm not playing thopter sword and having more win cons is nice

Also intrigued if ppl have any words on the white splash / Breya for grindy matchups. I've been dreaming of adding stoneforges to the deck but can't get around the greedy mana base. We're so greedy already !

Any thoughts ? Thanks!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They aren't at their strongest in the unfair matchups, but if anything, they provide a clock. In those preboard matchups, your Chalices and FoW should be enough to carry you.

I think you are way more likely to get paired against a fair deck where Ballista is a beast, lately.

[gibsonjunkie]

I love Walking Ballista, personally. I'm also currently working on testing a one-of Mirage Mirror in my sideboard, especially against lands/turbo depths matchups which there's a decent amount of in my area.

How do people feel about playing 2 Spire of Industry over Darkslick Shores?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[CptHaddock]

So for those of you still playing this deck now how are you faring against 4c Control? It feels like with the number of decays/goyfs going down this deck is slightly more viable.

[gibsonjunkie]

The one time I played against it I struggled, but it was more due to my unfamiliarity with the matchup than anything they did.

I agree on your point of this deck being better with fewer decays running around. That card is a real beating.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[gigasturtz]

How does the new planeswalker rule effect this deck? Do you think you are more likely to run Tezzeret, the Seeker in addition to AOB now?

[erevans444]

Hey guys. I have been testing a bit. Just updated my deckles. I have none of these cards yet, but this is the list I've been play testing with friends. I just wanted some opinions. It is a more budgeted list running a lot of basics to work better with the main deck Blood Moons. I have not tested the Tezzeret, the Seeker but with the changes to the planeswalker rule, I feel like a 1 of of it is miles better than the 1 of Whir of Invention that I was playing.

4 Baleful Strix
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dimir Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Blood Moon
1 Tezzeret, the Seeker
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Transmute Artifact
3 Dack Fayden
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast

1 Great Furnace
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
1 Inventors’ Fair
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

SB:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Cursed Totem
1 Dread of Night
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Trinisphere
3 Force of Will
1 Witchbane Orb

[Ephemeron]

How does the new planeswalker rule effect this deck? Do you think you are more likely to run Tezzeret, the Seeker in addition to AOB now?

I always liked Tezz the Seeker as a 1-of in the straight UB version. The Grixis version is a bit tighter and Dack's looting effect kinda takes the place of Tezz searching up artifacts. But I probably would be more likely to try big Tezz as a 1-of in Grixis with this rule change. It's an undeniably powerful card, especially in post-board games where you have LotV and Helm in your deck.

[gigasturtz]

Trying this tonight, I'll report back. first day with the deck.


Academy Ruins 1
Ancient Tomb 3
City of Traitors 1
Inventors Fair 1
Island 2
Polluted Delta 4
Seat of the Synod 3
Swamp 1
Underground Sea 3
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1
Vault of Whispers 1

Chalice of the Void 4
Dimir Signet 1
Ensnaring Bridge 2
Mox Diamond 2
Mox Opal 2
Sword of the Meek 2
Talisman of Dominance 2
Thopter Foundry 2
Umezawa's Jitte 1
Thopter Spy Network 1
Baleful Strix 4
Walking Ballista 3

Transmute Artifact 2
Supreme Will 2
Force of Will 4

Jace, the Mind Sculptor 1
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas 3
Tezzeret the Seeker 1

SB:
Toxic Deluge 2
Notion Thief 1
Flusterstorm 2
The Abyss 1
Invasive Surgery 1
Sphere of Resistance 3
Grafdigger's Cage 3
Pithing Needle 1
Trinisphere 1

[keys]

I'd try Basilisk Collar instead of Jitte, and maybe add a Trinket Mage to go find it, since it combos really nicely with Ballista.

[Undomian]

This thread is already 6 feet under the front page of the forum, but I’ll post this here regardless. I attended a local Win-A-Tabernacle tournament yesterday to a 4-1-1 swiss finish and a T8 loss to my loss in the swiss. I played this, but I’m not going to recommend that anyone actually take this to a serious event unless you’re feeling lucky:



Dack in Black

4 Baleful Strix
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Dack Fayden
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
2 Transmute Artifact
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Dust Bowl
1 Inventors’ Fair
1 Academy Ruins

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Blood Moon
2 Toxic Deluge


You’ll notice that I opted to not play force, and that was a metagame choice for this particular store where there are generally very few combo players and a lot of X delver and D&T. I really don’t think that that’s right for the long term direction of the deck, but it felt right for this event. It’s worth noting that this probably bit me in the ass in my losses, but whether or not I’ve been able to get there without this configuration is a different question entirely.

R1: Dredge (2-1)
And to think, I almost took Helm/Line out of my sideboard for this tournament. Game 1, he’s on the play, and Dredges me before I can find a Bridge and get hellbent. Game 2 effectively ends when I mulligan to a Leyline that he has no answers to. Game 3 is a little more interesting in that I don’t have a Leyline, but T1 Trinisphere into Chalice into Bridge is pretty effective too.

R2: Bant Stoneblade (1-1-0)
I sit down, and we make some conversation where I find out that he remembers me from some tournament 3 years ago where I was playing this deck. Whoops. I wish my memory was that good! In G1 he leads on DRS, which relieves me; I built my deck to beat that card today, and I was excited to try it. A few turns of Magic reveals that he’s on Bant Stoneblade with no SoFaI, and the Terrible Trifecta is eventually assembled behind their Bridge to grind out a win. Game 2 is another grindy affair that ends up going to time, and when we end up going to turns I’d already switched my play patterns from “how can I grind out a win” to “how can I not lose.”

R3: Grixis Delver (2-1)
Round 3 sees me paired against a very strong Grixis Delver pilot from the area, but thankfully I have some confidence in my list for today with regards to this matchup. Game 1 ends when I eventually assemble Thopter/Sword, which is essentially unbeatable preboard for them. I land a Blood Moon on turn 2 in Game 2, but actually end up losing when his Pyromancer into double Grudge on my artifact mana goes the distance over a few turns. Game 3 sees him mulligan to 6, and is a grindy game where he’s able to remove some of my hate, but eventually a Moon goes uncontested and other lockpieces follow. EE was incredible in this matchup, killing multiple permanents every time I cast it.

R4: Infect (1-2)
Having just played him at FNM two days ago, we were both pretty familiar with each other’s lists (and had even talked about sideboard plans against each other for some time!). I win the die roll, and keep a hand full of Baleful Strixes to hopefully eat his creatures. Unfortunately, his hand was T1 Elf into T2 2x Invigorate + Berserk to bash me for a lot of poison. G2 ends shortly after Blood Moon arrives to destroy his manabase. G3 comes down to a critical turn where he controls 2 Trop, Inkmoth, 2 Noble, and an Elf. My hand has Blood Moon and Deluge, and I choose to shut off the Nexus and some of his mana with Moon and Deluge the turn after. This ends up being too greedy, as his Nobles and a pump spell finish the job.

R5:Landstill (ID)
I get paired against the guy I drove with, and since we had agreed to a car split, we decided to just draw this round rather than make for a feel-bad moment.

R6: Burn (2-1)
His perspective of the matchup here (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/73q6l1) is a bit more detailed than my recollections, so you can read that if you want.

T8R1: Infect (0-2)
I’m mildly salty about getting paired against this again given that I don’t think I had a single other bad matchup in the top 8, but what can you do. G1 his hand unfortunately very similar R4G1, and my lone thopter token is unable to stop his 20/10 trampling Infect creature from killing me. In G2 I keep a promising hand with some Blood Moons and a Daretti, but he remembers to fetch his basic forest, has a Grip for my Moon, and an Inkmoth Nexus to get around my Daretti.

I win a judge Karakas, and my Landstill friend loses in the finals to win an Underground Sea. I drew Trinisphere a lot, and it was awesome every time that I did. EE + Daretti was also a potent combination for removing my opponent's stuff, something that I'm not really used to doing in my normal maindeck configuration.

All in all, not a bad day. In other news, I found my other copies of City of Traitors, so I'm looking forward to trying a straight UB version of this deck for the first time in awhile next week at FNM now that the planeswalker rule is changed.

[a tribe called trest]

How was the sorcerous spyglass for you?

[Undomian]

Drew it once, it didn't really matter when I did. Theoretically it was good against Infect, but I never drew it either time I played that. Probably will keep trying it given the opinion some of the red stompy players have of the card.

[Sisyphos]

Drew it once, it didn't really matter when I did. Theoretically it was good against Infect, but I never drew it either time I played that. Probably will keep trying it given the opinion some of the red stompy players have of the card.

I haven't gotten much testing in with Spyglass in a Tezzeret shell, but have been playing it in various Stompy shells. It can lead to total blowouts ("Oh you kept a hand with two Flooded Strands as your only lands. Guess you are not casting any spells this game...") and is never dead as all common decks include some form of activated ability. Even if the card you name does not come up in the game at all, the value of the information provided is immense. My estimate so far is that it isn't as strong in Tezzeret as it is in other shells, as Tezzeret (apart from some of the UBR-lists) does not complement it with additional mana denial but if you had a Needle or a Revoker in your list, Spyglass is a significant upgrade and I'd try to fit it into the deck, probably 1-2 main.

[MrFrowny_]

Hey guys, I've decided on building a Grixis Tezzerator list with a light-white splash. Here is the list:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/652214#paper

I know it's kinda greedy but I like decks like that. Anyways, what do you all think?

[DaBase]

I am interested to join the Tezz-Club. Always loved the style of the deck. Allready tried the deck in Cockatrice goldfish-style. Since still need some cards, mainly the Duals and Mox Diamond, I wonder if and how this can be substituted. The duals land can be substituted by shock- and basiclands. Of course the win percentage may decrease a bit but long term those cards are on my shopping list.
Due to the price spike of Mox Diamond I am not sure, if I will buy those cards.
I would prefere the Grixis variant of the deck, which would cause an increased need of Mox Diamond. Now I need the opinion of the Tezz-Gang :)
Would Grixis Tezzeret be playable without Mox Diamond? Is UB Tezzeret more recommended without Mox Diamond and how is UB Tezzeret compared to Grixis Tezz in a delver and D&T heavy meta?

Regards
DaBase

[Undomian]

Hey guys, I've decided on building a Grixis Tezzerator list with a light-white splash. Here is the list:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/652214#paper

I know it's kinda greedy but I like decks like that. Anyways, what do you all think?

I personally dislike Breya, but to each their own I guess. I'm also not 100% sure how good Detention Sphere actually is. That guy does put up pretty consistent results despite his worse-than-usual manabase, though, so if that list is your style I'd say go for it .


I am interested to join the Tezz-Club. Always loved the style of the deck. Allready tried the deck in Cockatrice goldfish-style. Since still need some cards, mainly the Duals and Mox Diamond, I wonder if and how this can be substituted. The duals land can be substituted by shock- and basiclands. Of course the win percentage may decrease a bit but long term those cards are on my shopping list.
Due to the price spike of Mox Diamond I am not sure, if I will buy those cards.
I would prefere the Grixis variant of the deck, which would cause an increased need of Mox Diamond. Now I need the opinion of the Tezz-Gang :)
Would Grixis Tezzeret be playable without Mox Diamond? Is UB Tezzeret more recommended without Mox Diamond and how is UB Tezzeret compared to Grixis Tezz in a delver and D&T heavy meta?

Regards
DaBase

You're going to have a hard time playing UBr without Mox Diamond, as that card is pretty vitally important to the deck's strategy and manabase. Luckily, UB doesn't need that, and that build recently received a pretty huge buff with the change to the Planeswalker rules. I haven't done a lot of testing with the UB variant recently, so I don't have a list, but the ones in the primer could probably be a reasonable starting point with some number of Tezzeret the Seeker over Jaces.

[Sisyphos]

In addition to what Undomian said, I have found the printing of Walking Ballista to significantly improve the matchups against DnT and/or Delver for UB Tezzeret. Against DnT the card is downright filthy. If your meta is heavy with those decks, I would play a playset main.

[a tribe called trest]

I am interested to join the Tezz-Club. Always loved the style of the deck. Allready tried the deck in Cockatrice goldfish-style. Since still need some cards, mainly the Duals and Mox Diamond, I wonder if and how this can be substituted. The duals land can be substituted by shock- and basiclands. Of course the win percentage may decrease a bit but long term those cards are on my shopping list.
Due to the price spike of Mox Diamond I am not sure, if I will buy those cards.
I would prefere the Grixis variant of the deck, which would cause an increased need of Mox Diamond. Now I need the opinion of the Tezz-Gang :)
Would Grixis Tezzeret be playable without Mox Diamond? Is UB Tezzeret more recommended without Mox Diamond and how is UB Tezzeret compared to Grixis Tezz in a delver and D&T heavy meta?

Regards
DaBase


To be blunt, grixis is not worth playing without mox diamond. It fix the mana, provides additional ways to cast turn 1 chalice without the need to run multiple city of traitors, and makes it easier to get under bridge in tight spots than added signets would.

You can however make some adjustments to the mana base for budgetary constraints. 1 of each volc, sea, and badlands with 8 fetches and more basics is fine. You can run blood moons in the side to make it less of a budgetary concession and more of an active gameplan.

[DaBase]

Thank you, guys. So the best plan would be to go with UB first and maybe going Grixis later.

I have planned to go with following starting decklist:
// 17 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dimir Signet
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek

// 8 Creature
3 Walking Ballista
4 Baleful Strix
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation

// 1 Enchantment
1 Thopter Spy Network

// 4 Instant
4 Force of Will

// 22 Land
4 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
2 Watery Grave (budget replacement for Underground Sea)
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Island
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Academy Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crystal Vein (budget replacement for City of Traitor)

// 6 Planeswalker
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Tezzeret the Seeker

// 2 Sorcery
2 Reshape (Budget replacement for transmute artifact)


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Helm of Obedience
SB: 2 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 1 Witchbane Orb
SB: 2 Lodestone Golem
SB: 1 Notion Thief
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge

Due to some budget replacements the deck contains couple of game plans:
- thopter/sword combo
- Tezz making artifacts
- beatdown of walking ballista / Tezz ultimate

[Sisyphos]

Don't play Thopter Spy Network. The card is not worth a slot in any deck. Possible replacements: 4th Ballista, a sweeper (Deluge or Damnation), Jace the Mindsculptor. I'd mention The Abyss as well, but as you're working on a budget version that is probably out of question. Other consideration would perhaps be a 23rd land. I have considered going up to 23 due to a lot of mulligans recently and with Vein instead of City you might lack mana for follow up plays. But you'd have to test to find out if an additional land is necessary.

[Undomian]

Reshape is also pretty terrible, so you might be better served with Whir of Invention (or maybe like Fabricate) in that slot.

[a tribe called trest]

Reshape is also pretty terrible, so you might be better served with Whir of Invention (or maybe like Fabricate) in that slot.


We probably aren't there yet, but I can foresee a day when Whir of invention becomes an upgrade on transmute in a straight u/b build. Chalice, sorcerous spyglass, crucible, bridge are all good lock pieces that provide value tapping for Whir. Maybe in a few years as more artifacts get printed.


To the folks trying multiple Tezz the seekers in U/B with the new walker rule, is the goal to be helming people main board again? How much value is it providing as a 5 mana tutor? Enough to warrant moving off Jace?

[Sisyphos]

To the folks trying multiple Tezz the seekers in U/B with the new walker rule, is the goal to be helming people main board again? How much value is it providing as a 5 mana tutor? Enough to warrant moving off Jace?

So far I've not moved back to Helm maindeck yet, as the five slots required make the deck a bit clunky and the meta is not as graveyard reliant as during the Treasure Cruise/Dig through Time era. But having 4 Transmute effects (2 of them reusable) instead of 2 adds a lot of consistency. You find Bridge/ThopterSword/Trini or other silver bullets much easier. The deck never played as much shuffle effects as other decks that play Jace, so you can't abuse infinite Brainstorm as much. Look at it this way: Would the deck rather draw a random extra card each turn or find the missing lock/combo piece? But then again I played Seekers even before the rules change so maybe I'm a bit biased.

[Ellomdian]

You're going to have a hard time playing UBr without Mox Diamond, as that card is pretty vitally important to the deck's strategy and manabase. Luckily, UB doesn't need that, and that build recently received a pretty huge buff with the change to the Planeswalker rules. I haven't done a lot of testing with the UB variant recently, so I don't have a list, but the ones in the primer could probably be a reasonable starting point with some number of Tezzeret the Seeker over Jaces.

Undomain has far more experience w/ the Grixis build than me, so he's authoritative, but IMO the only reason to play the Grixis build over the UB one is that Diamonds give you more explosive draws. You need to be doing something unfair T1/T2/T3 (or you are losing a lot of games) and Grixis does that more reliably.


Thank you, guys. So the best plan would be to go with UB first and maybe going Grixis later.

I have planned to go with following starting decklist:

(Budget-ish decklist here.)



So, this point comes up in Legacy a lot, but it bears repeating in the context of this deck: There are specific cards in the pool that make various strategies just work, and those strategies aren't particularly effective outside of them. Trying to play a deck like this without access to the appropriate engine cards (Sol Lands, Diamonds in the Grixis build) is likely going to result in a very unsatisfactory experience for you. If you want to try out the deck before you acquire cards, play with proxies. But if you try to sleeve up a discount version for a sanctioned match, you had better hope that your opponent decided to play Modern cards that day, because you lose so many of the advantages that the deck is exploiting within the context of the format. The deck was originally fully predicated on landing a 4cmc walker on T2, because that was difficult for opponents to interact with. Making the same play T4 can often mean you are just straight dead-on-board.


We probably aren't there yet, but I can foresee a day when Whir of invention becomes an upgrade on transmute in a straight u/b build. Chalice, sorcerous spyglass, crucible, bridge are all good lock pieces that provide value tapping for Whir. Maybe in a few years as more artifacts get printed.


To the folks trying multiple Tezz the seekers in U/B with the new walker rule, is the goal to be helming people main board again? How much value is it providing as a 5 mana tutor? Enough to warrant moving off Jace?

Man, if Whir wasn't always UUU... The value of Transmute is that it can function on an absurdly low base. I played a game last week that was T1 Tomb, Sword / T2 Talisman, Sea, Transmute Sword for Foundry. It just boggles my mind having a tutor that requires UUU, when I win an awful lot of games because I did something busted with 2UU.

I'm still not sold on a MD combo that requires you to draw a BB2 enchantment naturally in an environment where the graveyard isn't reliably being heavily abused, but the new walker rule certainly makes people that are bound and determined to make their good cards cost more than 4 happy.

--

Honestly, overall, I'm a bit down on Tezz (and mid-range value strategies) right now. Miracles-less Miracles (UWx Control) is kind of Garbage-y, and the strongest decks I am seeing regularly are either straight up broken (SnT) or Aggro decks with value creatures that make Baleful Strix look downright homely, and that can comfortably sit behind a Bridge for 3-4 turns while still proactively interfering with my plan. If Czech Pile and DnT continue to make up large portions of the meta, feasting on bad Grixis players and the like, it's probably time to pack up Chalices and just bring something Scary to class for 2U.

[Undomian]

I'm in agreement with Ellomdian that this deck isn't in a great spot right now. I've told others that the draw to this deck is that it was the best Chalice deck because it got to play Force of Will to supplement your combo plan and a combo that is pretty good against anything fair. In a format where Force is not great, to say the least, and the best fair deck is playing a thousand ways to destroy your combo pieces, that draw is somewhat lacking. If you want to be playing the best Chalice deck at this particular point in time, the ones with Blood Moon or stupidly pushed creatures are probably a bit better off.

Not that that means that I'm not playing the deck; I have entirely too much fun with Thopter/Sword for that. :laugh:

[a tribe called trest]

I'm with both of you on the deck not being well positioned at the moment. The leyline helm combo takes up too much sideboard space to properly fight the pile and value decks. There's no free wins with tormods crypt, but its much better in that kind of meta. You can bring in 1 or 2 against them to help mitigate the snapcaster flashbacks without needing to over commit with helmline. Keranos is also a house in that matchup if you can resolve it

[Ellomdian]

If you want to be playing the best Chalice deck at this particular point in time, the ones with Blood Moon or stupidly pushed creatures are probably a bit better off.


And, more importantly, I don't think Chalice-on-One is even in the Top 5 plays you could be doing in Legacy currently. We've been talking locally how little true tempo there is in the meta right now - I know a few Czech Pile players that wouldn't even know what to do if they got Wasteland-ed and Fetch-Stifled, but because the only low-to-the-ground deck seeing lots of play is Burn, they don't have to worry about it.

I moved my Cities into SnT this weekend, and I'm trying to figure out what I still don't own for AnT. If the rest of the format doesn't want to police the truly unfair stuff... :cool:

[filln]

https://i.imgur.com/X2hlFMB.jpg

Any thoughts about Storm the Vault // Vault of Catlacan in Grixis Tezz? With thopter tokens and Strix it's not too hard to get in for combat damage and once it flips you can sink the mana into creating more Thopters or a Walking Ballista. That said, if you already have Thopter + Sword out you're probably going to win. Seems like a fun one-of than a staple but I'll be testing it anyway.

[Undomian]

Yeah, that card seems extremely win-more, and 4 mana is competing with actual win conditions. Academy is powerful at any point in the game, especially with Thopter/Sword, but the front being basically useless kind of throws me off of the card entirely.

[a tribe called trest]

Search for azcanta flipping into that academy land would have been our ideal card

[Ellomdian]

https://i.imgur.com/X2hlFMB.jpg

Any thoughts about Storm the Vault // Vault of Catlacan in Grixis Tezz?

- It costs 4, so it's competing with stuff like Tezz AOB and JTMS.

- It takes quite a long time to actually flip.

- When it does actually flip, it... helps you have more mana to cast stuff. You know, the stuff in your deck you weren't able to cast with the 4 mana you had to play it in the first place...

Sure, it looks like Academy. But in Legacy, it's about as functional as the Cradle one is in Elves - you don't really need more mana if you've got it online in the first place.

[civet five]

- It costs 4, so it's competing with stuff like Tezz AOB and JTMS.

- It takes quite a long time to actually flip.

- When it does actually flip, it... helps you have more mana to cast stuff. You know, the stuff in your deck you weren't able to cast with the 4 mana you had to play it in the first place...

Sure, it looks like Academy. But in Legacy, it's about as functional as the Cradle one is in Elves - you don't really need more mana if you've got it online in the first place.

Just want to point out that it flips off of 5+ artifacts, not just Treasures. I agree that 8Tezz probably isn't the place for it, but it is pretty easy to flip in Legacy and doesn't require combat damage to flip.

[Ellomdian]

Just want to point out that it flips off of 5+ artifacts, not just Treasures. I agree that 8Tezz probably isn't the place for it, but it is pretty easy to flip in Legacy and doesn't require combat damage to flip.

Most of the time in UB, I have less than 5 artifacts in play unless I am going off with Thopters or playing to a corner-case Tezz ult.

If you want to flip it, you can, but your board state is likely to be garbo when you do.

Of course, I've been playing around with Mirage mirror this week, so what do I know?

[Undomian]

I have been absolutely crushing my locals with this recently, having gone 4-0-1 in the last two events I've played in:



4 Baleful Strix

2 Transmute Artifact
3 Force of Will

4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Dack Fayden
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Search for Azcanta

4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet

1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
1 Dust Bowl
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Force of Will
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 The Abyss
2 Toxic Deluge


There's been a lot less Czech Pile recently, which I can probably attribute most of that to, but I've also just been very happy overall with the performance of this configuration in the recent metagame.

[a tribe called trest]

Are you ever boarding out Azcanta? Or is it giving enough value to clear the top of the deck even against grave hate

[Undomian]

Are you ever boarding out Azcanta? Or is it giving enough value to clear the top of the deck even against grave hate

I only very rarely board it out. It's very good at finding sideboard cards in the postboard games.

[a tribe called trest]

Thread has been pretty dead, so ill toss out a random white splash/non force of will build I've been dicking around with that feels pretty good.


4 baleful strix
1 breya ethereum shaper

2 transmute artifact

4 mox diamond
2 dimir signet
4 chalice of the void
4 thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
2 ensnaring bridge
1 crucible of worlds

4 dack fayden
4 tezzeret, agent of bolas

1 academy ruins
4 ancient tomb
1 inventors fair
2 island
4 polluted delta
3 scalding tarn
1 swamp
1 tundra
2 underground sea
2 volcanic island
4 wasteland

s/b

3 tormods crypt
1 flusterstorm
2 abrade
2 containment priest
2 ethersworn canonist
1 engineered explosives
2 lodestone golem
2 batterskull



The maindeck breya can easily be something more practical like engineered explosives or ensnaring bridge, but without force of will in this build it seems better to be going forward with threats rather than defensive. Until people start playing the good reanimator deck again, I'm gonna keep trying to get away with crypt instead of leyline to gain some sideboard space, and have a card or two to help nerf snapcaster mage in grindy games.

Cut force of will in order to bump up the land count to support wasteland/crucible. I dont think this deck is capable of wastelanding and force of willing at the same time, so that was where the decision point came. Wanted to have more live cards against delver in game 1.

Cards ive been most happy with are the white sideboard cards against combo, and abrade. Its a clean instant answer to drs that doesnt get pyroblasted, and also destroys an aether vial/needle.

[smutko]

I need sideboard help!

Here's my list:

(21 Lands)
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Glimmervoid
1 Academy Ruins

3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond (I really hate this card but I'm not sure what I want instead)

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Baleful Strix
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Time Sieve (I'm trying it out as a way to end the game the turn I untap with a Seeker, definitely cuttable)

4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Thoughtcast
4 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Tezzeret Agent of Bolas
3 Force of Will

Sideboard cards I like:
Misdirection
Tormod's Crypt
Ethersworn Canonist (As a 1-of to tutor with tezz)

Sideboard cards I'm not seeing in the last few lists posted to this thread but I'm curious to try:
Dismember
Spatial Contortion
Engineered Explosives

Sideboard cards I've tried and found unsatisfying:
Chill
Echoing Truth
Lodestone Golem
Bitterblossom
Defense Grid

I'm aware my deck is a bit different that the one you all have more experience with but I'm struggling to make sideboard plans i'm happy with and wondered if I could get any suggestions here.
How good is Inventors' Fair?

Thanks!

[Undomian]

That is a bit different than what we usually talk about, so which matchups are you having issues with?

[smutko]

I'm mostly looking to shore up my delver matchup, as its easily the most played deck online right now (at least in my experience).

Currently my board is:
2 collective brutality
2 toxic deluge
2 misdirection
1 ethersworn canonist
2 tormods crypt
1 grafdiggers cage
3 lodestone golem
2 echoing truth

[a tribe called trest]

I'm mostly looking to shore up my delver matchup, as its easily the most played deck online right now (at least in my experience).

Currently my board is:
2 collective brutality
2 toxic deluge
2 misdirection
1 ethersworn canonist
2 tormods crypt
1 grafdiggers cage
3 lodestone golem
2 echoing truth

I'd personally toss in some number of engineered explosives over the echoing truths. it kills delver/deathrite at the same mana cost of deluge without the life loss which is very relevant in the matchup. You can also find yourself in a situation where you have a strix on the table. explosives allows you kill their board while keeping your strix for another future delver or angler.

[kingtk3]

Hi guys,
I'm planning to bring Tezzerator to the next big tournament, and the list I'm sitting on right now is something like this

MAIN
4 chalice of the void
3 ensnaring bridge
2 sword of the meek
3 thopter foundry
2 dimir signet
3 Mox Diamond
4 baleful strix
3 force of will
2 Collective brutality
3 Dack fayden
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
3 tezzeret, agent of bolas
2 transmute artifact
2 Toxic Deluge
3 underground sea
2 Badland
2 volcanic island
2 island
1 swamp
4 polluted delta
1 Scalding tarn
1 bloodstained mire
4 ancient tomb
1 Inventors' Fair
1 academy ruins
1 city of traitors

SIDE
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 chains of mephistopheles
2 slaughter games
1 trinisphere
1 Nether Void
1 The Abyss
1 Engineered plague
1 force of will
2 blood moon


Since is quite some time that I can't attend to some medium-big tournament, I'd like to hear some criticism to the deck. As you can see I pack a little more disruption MD than usual.
There are two things that troubles me:
the low blue count to support the 4th FoW, but at the same time I kind of want an answer to turn 1 combo
I don't have a way to manage opponent's fast planeswalker, especially Liliana, the last hope, apart FoW which is, however, a card that I don't like in those MU (BUG and Grixis namely)

I'm pondering to swap the 4th FoW in the side with something like sorcerous spyglass or even dreadbore or to the slaughter.
I'm also thinking about swapping the FoW and a bridge MD with 3 leylines and the helm, since I think that against many deck (grixis delver, BUG mainly) leyline is better G1 than G2-3, but I'm still unsure.

Thank you for your feedback.

[gibsonjunkie]

Shoutout to Jake Farrar getting 22nd at the team open this weekend! Pretty sweet UB list. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118494

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[NetterMizuno]

There have been modern Tezzeret discord that got legacy section, please feel free to join (i'm not the one that made it but i want more people there to talk about tezzeret) https://discord.gg/RSnYU2P

And taht list is nice, not something i would run but i can see it doing well.

[Peebs]

Shoutout to Jake Farrar getting 22nd at the team open this weekend! Pretty sweet UB list. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118494

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Thank you! I had a blast playing this deck, and even though Day 2 didn't live up to our 9-0 Day 1, we had a great time at the tournament.

I played a whole lot of Deathrite decks, as we predicted going in, and my turn 1 Chalices of the Void backed by the full 4 Force of Will in the main usually meant a very quick game 1 in my favor, followed by confused looks from the opposing team about how to sideboard. Lands was the second most common opposing deck, and Ensnaring Bridge with Chalice of the Void on 2 locked them out of Punishing Fire, Life from the Loam, and Marit Lage wins. I lost both matches to Miracles, and all three matches to Death and Taxes. I'd definitely like to increase the number of Walking Ballistae in the main deck because Phyrexian Revoker was incredibly difficult to deal with. Toxic Deluge in the board helped, but I couldn't stem the tide forever.

As far as changes to my list go, I'm definitely looking at shifting to Grixis for Dack and Blood Moon (love me some Blood Moon!). I am wary of its increased vulnerability to Wasteland, but Dack seems to ease most of the frustrations I had over the weekend. I'd like to see how Null Brooch and Ghirapur Aether Grid, two suggestions I received over the tournament, perform as well.

[Cyanhur]

Thank you! I had a blast playing this deck, and even though Day 2 didn't live up to our 9-0 Day 1, we had a great time at the tournament.

I played a whole lot of Deathrite decks, as we predicted going in, and my turn 1 Chalices of the Void backed by the full 4 Force of Will in the main usually meant a very quick game 1 in my favor, followed by confused looks from the opposing team about how to sideboard. Lands was the second most common opposing deck, and Ensnaring Bridge with Chalice of the Void on 2 locked them out of Punishing Fire, Life from the Loam, and Marit Lage wins. I lost both matches to Miracles, and all three matches to Death and Taxes. I'd definitely like to increase the number of Walking Ballistae in the main deck because Phyrexian Revoker was incredibly difficult to deal with. Toxic Deluge in the board helped, but I couldn't stem the tide forever.

As far as changes to my list go, I'm definitely looking at shifting to Grixis for Dack and Blood Moon (love me some Blood Moon!). I am wary of its increased vulnerability to Wasteland, but Dack seems to ease most of the frustrations I had over the weekend. I'd like to see how Null Brooch and Ghirapur Aether Grid, two suggestions I received over the tournament, perform as well.

Nice results ! Can you tell us what was your match up day 1? What was the reason to loose vs miracle? Do you think with red you have a better chance?

[Poron]

This deck is Grixis to me.

Dack Fayden and Chain of Mephistopheles is a hardlock for every control deck and Daretti 2.0 is great even alone

You can even Goblin Welder around in case you drop Chalice, but I wouldn't

[Cyanhur]

This deck is Grixis to me.

Dack Fayden and Chain of Mephistopheles is a hardlock for every control deck and Daretti 2.0 is great even alone

You can even Goblin Welder around in case you drop Chalice, but I wouldn't

Do you have a recent grixis list?

[Peebs]

Nice results ! Can you tell us what was your match up day 1? What was the reason to loose vs miracle? Do you think with red you have a better chance?

Day 1 was 2 D+T, 2 Show and Tell (won vs Sneak and Show, lost against Omnitell), Lands, and about 4 Deathrite/Delver decks. I lost to Miracles on Day 2 because even though I brought in Helm/Leyline, they got out an early Search for Azcanta, and the Scry 1 every turn let them find relevant cards and throw away not useful ones. They won with Angel tokens after Council's Judgementing my bridges. I think with Red in the deck I'd have a better Miracles matchup; simply seeing more cards with Dack would have kept me in the game better.


Daretti 2.0 is great even alone

I'm having trouble seeing what the fuss is over RB Daretti, could someone please enlighten me?
What should I change from the UB list I played to make it Grixis?

[kingtk3]

Day 1 was 2 D+T, 2 Show and Tell (won vs Sneak and Show, lost against Omnitell), Lands, and about 4 Deathrite/Delver decks. I lost to Miracles on Day 2 because even though I brought in Helm/Leyline, they got out an early Search for Azcanta, and the Scry 1 every turn let them find relevant cards and throw away not useful ones. They won with Angel tokens after Council's Judgementing my bridges. I think with Red in the deck I'd have a better Miracles matchup; simply seeing more cards with Dack would have kept me in the game better.



I'm having trouble seeing what the fuss is over RB Daretti, could someone please enlighten me?
What should I change from the UB list I played to make it Grixis?

In grixis I play 2 slaughter games in the side, which help against combo but are also strong versus miracle, exiling his few win conditions. Dack is also good because, as you said, he cycles through your deck.

Daretti is a nice PW because
- it's cheap
- it defends himself with chumpblockers or killing creatures
- he can remove annoying creatures that don't interact with the combat phase (DRS, Leo, ecc...)
- he destroys artifact, which can be relevant against this new surge of big mana decks, and is an out against null rod, pithing needle, phyrexian revoker, sorcerous spyglass

[Cyanhur]

The last time i played this grixis list :

4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
3 Dack Fayden

4 Baleful Strix

3 Force of Will
1 Trinisphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Dimir Signet
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Transmute Artifact
3 Thopter Foundry
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond

2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Inventor's Fair


sideboard


2 Lodestone Golem
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 The Abyss
2 Blood Moon
1 Trinisphere
1 Engineered Plague
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Force of Will

[Foamy]

I'm having trouble seeing what the fuss is over RB Daretti, could someone please enlighten me?
What should I change from the UB list I played to make it Grixis?

Daretti gives the deck some much-needed interaction with the opponent's board. In addition to what kingtk3 said, Daretti's abilities also interact favorably with Sword of the Meek. Sword is one of the artifacts that you least mind sacrificing to his -1, and his +1 brings back any Swords that have been looted away with Dack or binned for various reasons (including the aforementioned -1).

Congrats on your strong finish! It's always great to see this deck doing well.

[a tribe called trest]

I've disliked the daretti basically in every matchup except DNT. If the defender token had flying it would have made a huge difference. Holding up black red to cast it turn 3 against delver for example is pretty brutal in the face of daze/wasteland. If you want to kill the delver you need to sack whatever Mana rock you used to turbo it out, then you get blown out by wasteland or bolt. It's definitely great against dnt, but I think abrade and ballista give you enough game against that deck to ignore how clunky the daretti is elsewhere.

[gibsonjunkie]

I've gone down from 2 to 1 copy of Daretti in my list, but he is insane at breaking a board stall. Late game I'm almost never disappointed to topdeck him.

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[jpowell]

I've 5-0'd my last 3 MTGO leagues with straight UB Tezz. I've always played Grixis with Dack/Daretti but decided to try UB again after seeing the list from the SCG team tournament.
I'm still not sold on Force of Will with so few blue cards and it seems to get boarded out quite often.

I've made a few tweaks after each league, this is my most recent list:

4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
2x Inventors' Fair
1x Academy Ruins
2x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
2x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Urborg
2x Underground Sea

4x Mox Diamond
2x Transmute Artifact
2x Collective Brutality
4x Baleful Strix
3x Thopter FOundry
3x Dimir Signet
1x Talisman of Dominance
2x Sword of the Meek
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Trinisphere
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4x Force of Will
1x Tezzeret, the Seeker
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Walking Ballista

Sideboard:
1x Engineered Plague
2x Toxic Deluge
1x The Abyss
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Trinisphere
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Lodestone Golem
1x Witchbane Orb

[gibsonjunkie]

I've 5-0'd my last 3 MTGO leagues with straight UB Tezz. I've always played Grixis with Dack/Daretti but decided to try UB again after seeing the list from the SCG team tournament.
I'm still not sold on Force of Will with so few blue cards and it seems to get boarded out quite often.

I've made a few tweaks after each league, this is my most recent list:

4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
2x Inventors' Fair
1x Academy Ruins
2x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
2x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Urborg
2x Underground Sea

4x Mox Diamond
2x Transmute Artifact
2x Collective Brutality
4x Baleful Strix
3x Thopter FOundry
3x Dimir Signet
1x Talisman of Dominance
2x Sword of the Meek
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Trinisphere
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4x Force of Will
1x Tezzeret, the Seeker
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Walking Ballista

Sideboard:
1x Engineered Plague
2x Toxic Deluge
1x The Abyss
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Trinisphere
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Lodestone Golem
1x Witchbane Orb

May I ask why you're playing Mox Diamonds? I feel like I only really see them in the Grixis builds or builds playing the Wasteland/Crucible combo. I really love the sideboard Witchbane Orb. Otherwise I really dig your list, and congrats on the great finishes!

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[CptHaddock]

May I ask why you're playing Mox Diamonds? I feel like I only really see them in the Grixis builds or builds playing the Wasteland/Crucible combo. I really love the sideboard Witchbane Orb. Otherwise I really dig your list, and congrats on the great finishes!

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I'm very curious about this as well. I've seen a few UB lists that run diamonds before a playset of either signets or talismans. From my experience playing UB it's a little uncommon to need color fixing minus the sol land heavy draws.

Regardless it's impressive that you have done well on MTGO. I've found that everytime I play on MTGO I run into a lot of Czech Pile decks and that matchup seems close to unwinnable barring chalice on 1 resolving and staying on the board turn 1.

[kingtk3]

I'm in grixis, but once upon a time I was playing straight UB with signets and talismans.
Mox was adopted by grixis for color fixing, that is true, but after that players learnt that mox gives a nice speed boost too.

Someone could advocate that signet boosts speed too, but that happens from the turn after it comes into play, while mox gives you mana immediately. This is important in some scenarios, landing chalice@1 on turn 1 without tomb/city, needing an extra mana to play around daze in the first turns and play a 3 mana PW on turn 2 being the most relevant. UB doesn't play 3 mana PW so the benefits are a little less, but still mox holds its merits.

To be fair, this comes with the price of card disadvantage, but when you are in a hurry to hide under the bridge this is a pros instead of a cons.

If I'll come back to UB I don't know if I'll play mox, but I'll surely consider it.

[gibsonjunkie]

Looking to lock in a 75 before GP Seattle in April, and here's approximately where I'm at:

Maindeck (60 cards) :u::b::r:

1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Badlands
2 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volcanic Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 City of Traitors
2 Spire of Industry
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp

4 Baleful Strix
1 Walking Ballista
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dimir Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Mox Diamond
1 Crucible of Worlds

2 Dack Fayden
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

2 Transmute Artifact
3 Force of Will

Sideboard (15 cards)
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Slaughter Games
1 Blood Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Force of Will
1 Trinisphere
1 Sorcerous Spyglass

I'm looking to add 2 Wastelands, but I'm not sure how I would re-tool the manabase to accommodate them. I really like the 2 Spires of Industry in this deck, but I feel like they are the most likely candidates. I also go back and forth on Urborg in this list, but fully understand why it should be in the list. I also think my sideboard could use some work, especially in an open meta.

[jpowell]

I like the diamonds because they've seemed to help get the early chalice / trinisphere a more consistently ( tho, small sample size ). 4 May be a bit overkill though.

I'll be making some more tweaks, possibly going back to trying a grixis version for my next few leagues later this week. Will try to remember to post back with list & results.

[a tribe called trest]

Regardless of grixis or straight u/b, Mox diamond allows for the most powerful thing in a vacuum this archetype is capable of. Turn 1 chalice into Turn 2 tezz isn't possible without Mox(not counting spirit guides or petals). I play 4 of in both

[gibsonjunkie]

Once again, Jake Farrar at 15th at SCG Worcester with Grixis Tezzeret! Congrats, Jake!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119250

[Cyanhur]

Once again, Jake Farrar at 15th at SCG Worcester with Grixis Tezzeret! Congrats, Jake!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119250

Yes congrats !
I hope he will make a report.

[Undomian]

Always good to see the deck doing well in a tournament!

[Peebs]

Thanks guys! I had quite a time tracking down a Chains of Mephistopheles to borrow, but I found one in time (and now I can use my winnings to buy my own!!!)

Adding red for Dack and Daretti makes the deck SO much more consistent; I see tons more cards with Dack so I can find my hoser enchantments and lock up board states.

As for the tournament itself, my matchups went a little like this:

Day 1:
Sneak and Show, 1-0
Bridge and Foundry help against big attackers.

Turbo Depths, 2-0
This was against the guy who drove me down to the event, as is tradition for anyone who travels to large events.

DnT, 2-1
The judges entered my previous round's record backwards, so I actually got paired down against an acquaintance. After I lost, I said "Bummer, now I'm 2-1" to which he said "Wait, I'm 2-1 now..." then we checked the slip, went to the judges, they corrected my match 2 record, but kept the results of round 3.

Sneak and Show, 3-1
Opponent hard-cast Omniscience against me (taking 6 from ancient tombs), tried to Brainstorm his Emrakul onto his library, but forgot about Chalice. (but I didn't actually pay any mana for iiiiittttttt) Attempted to go off with Release the Ants manually, and lost the clash to end that game and match.

R/W Bomberman, 4-1
This was a spicy one. I lost Game 1 after he went infinite with LED and Walking Ballista, and games 2 and 3 he was on the Monastery Mentor beatdown plan. Luckily I had my Engineered Plague, so his Monks never got out of control. I won with Tezz 5/5 beats.

3/4C Deathrite (I grouped these all together, I know there are specific delineations between them but I wasn't able to determine them while playing), 5-1
These decks blended together for me over the weekend, but there wasn't anything truly remarkable about them; I cast chalice on 1, they couldn't do anything, so I won.

3/4C Deathrite, 6-1

TES, 7-1
Chalice is great against decks trying to cast lots of spells.

3/4C Deathrite, 8-1 to finish Day 1
Off camera feature match. In Game 1, he scooped immediately after I cast Daretti from behind Chalice on 1, which is certainly an interesting reaction I did not anticipate.

Day 2:
3/4C Deathrite, 9-1
Another off camera match, another deathrite deck that loses to chalice.

Grixis Delver, 9-2
Lost to Noah Walker on camera in round 11, commentators had a great time trying to identify some of the cards in my decklist. I had low impact hands, he had all the answers and a decent clock, so the games were over pretty quickly.

Turbo Depths, 9-3
I lost the second game because I was too confident in my hexproof ensnaring bridge that was drawing me two cards a turn, and thought "What could kill me through this?" and discarded a force of will to Dack. Next turn, he made Marit Lage and cast Rite of consumption, hitting me for 20. Womp Womp.

3/4C Deathrite, 10-3
This one was fun; I got to steal a Pithing Needle on Thopter Foundry, sac it for Transmute Artifact to find a Thopter Foundry, then combo off.

TES: 11-3
I Transmute Artifact'd for a Chalice with no counters on it for the first time, and it locked him out of his mana rocks to secure the win for me.

Eldrazi, 11-4, Ended up 15th overall
I had played against Dylan a few times before, but never in Legacy. He had two very explosive starts before I could get a defense up, but in game 2, I had The Abyss, so the only thing I was afraid of was running Reality Smashers. He hit me with one, down to 7, then he cast Warping Wail to make a scion for The Abyss trigger, attacked me down to 2, then cast another eldrazi to allow at least one to get in for lethal next turn.
He made 7th after Swiss, and we had very similar breakers, so I'm pretty sure that was a win-and-in for me, but I just came to play Magic so I didn't let that get to me.

As far as changes to the deck, I anticipate a lot more artifact removal in the future, from cards like By Force, K Command, and Abrade, so Chalices aren't going to be as game-breaking as they have been recently. Definitely moving Padeem back into the main deck, probably in place of Daretti. I'm considering Collective Brutality as well, because it kills Deathrite and more opponent hand information is great.

[maCHOOga]

Thanks guys! I had quite a time tracking down a Chains of Mephistopheles to borrow, but I found one in time (and now I can use my winnings to buy my own!!!)



Congrats on the finish. I had multiple friends message me over the weekend telling me that Tezz was on camera. Unfortuatenly I was unable to tune in to watch.

I'm contemplating playing Tezz at an upcoming team event. What is a suitable replacement if I don't have Chains of Mephistopheles? I got the Abyss covered though! :-)

[Peebs]

I would jam Slaughter Games or another way to beat decks that rely on drawing cards to find their win conditions, which also happen to be blue decks that want to counter everything that tries to stop them from doing so.
Maybe Notion Thief if you're UB?

[CptHaddock]

Thanks guys! I had quite a time tracking down a Chains of Mephistopheles to borrow, but I found one in time (and now I can use my winnings to buy my own!!!)

As far as changes to the deck, I anticipate a lot more artifact removal in the future, from cards like By Force, K Command, and Abrade, so Chalices aren't going to be as game-breaking as they have been recently. Definitely moving Padeem back into the main deck, probably in place of Daretti. I'm considering Collective Brutality as well, because it kills Deathrite and more opponent hand information is great.

It's kind of interesting that you have been having as much success as you have with the Czech Pile (4c control) matchups. I primarily play on MTGO and have a lot of trouble with that MU. I've found that I usually run into situations where all my stuff gets decayed/blasted/k-commanded and i'm just unable to do anything. Any advice for the matchup? How do you find yourself normally boarding in that matchup?

Congrats on your tournament run!

[Peebs]

It's kind of interesting that you have been having as much success as you have with the Czech Pile (4c control) matchups. I primarily play on MTGO and have a lot of trouble with that MU. I've found that I usually run into situations where all my stuff gets decayed/blasted/k-commanded and i'm just unable to do anything. Any advice for the matchup? How do you find yourself normally boarding in that matchup?

Congrats on your tournament run!

MU advice:
Play around Daze as much as you can. Your Sol lands are great for this, but denying them the opportunity to freely fill their GY is big for delaying Gurmag Angler a turn or two until you can find Bridge. I usually run Mana rocks out first if I'm on the draw to bait counters, and save my more impactful artifacts for a turn or two later. On the play you're trying to jam and protect Chalice, and there's really not that much else that matters. They're GOING to counter at least some of your stuff, don't get too worried about having it happen and just stream out must-answer cards.

For siding:
If I see Young Pyromancer, I'll bring in Engineered Plague and the other Ballista, but if not, then just Chains, Deluge, Padeem (will be MB going forward), Misdirection, and Trinisphere. If I see a higher than normal amount of counters in game 1, I'll also bring in Lodestones.

I'll usually take out about 2 Forces, 1 Thopter Foundry, 1-2 Baleful Strix, maybe a Signet. Signets are crucial to get around Wasteland, so I never take out more than 1, but decks heavier on 4 colors tend to play fewer copies, so one is ok with Mox Diamonds (since your nonbasics are going into the GY anyway!).

Thanks, I hope I can bring it to more events soon and get more reps with it beyond these last two events and FNM!

[gibsonjunkie]

How did 3 Dack Fayden feel? I'm on two but have been contemplating going up to three.

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[Peebs]

I think 3 is the correct number, but I would consider playing 2 if I needed room for another main deck card.

[kingtk3]

I would jam Slaughter Games or another way to beat decks that rely on drawing cards to find their win conditions, which also happen to be blue decks that want to counter everything that tries to stop them from doing so.
Maybe Notion Thief if you're UB?

Congratz on the finish! I run grixis too with a list very similar to yours (basically no fows, no ballista, 1 more land/daretti/bridge/deluge and 1 trini MD) and I would like to know:
- how where the fows? didn't they feel awkward with so few blu pitch which are all so good to play?
- how was ballista? did it really shine or something like a second deluge would have been the same?
- against which deck do you side Misdirection in?
- why no blood moon in the side? I think it's a great card to have this days, and we can land it turn1 to hardlock 4c control and such

You should definetly try a couple of slaughter games in the side because apart destroying combo, they are useful against control too, since the rely on few threats. In my list they take your lodestone golem's slots, if it can help.

EDIT: how do you guys play against big eldrazi? they ramp very fast with sol lands and artifacts and I don't think we can manage their threats (newlamog, ugin, ecc...)

[Peebs]

Congratz on the finish! I run grixis too with a list very similar to yours (basically no fows, no ballista, 1 more land/daretti/bridge/deluge and 1 trini MD) and I would like to know:
- how where the fows? didn't they feel awkward with so few blu pitch which are all so good to play?
- how was ballista? did it really shine or something like a second deluge would have been the same?
- against which deck do you side Misdirection in?
- why no blood moon in the side? I think it's a great card to have this days, and we can land it turn1 to hardlock 4c control and such

You should definetly try a couple of slaughter games in the side because apart destroying combo, they are useful against control too, since the rely on few threats. In my list they take your lodestone golem's slots, if it can help.

EDIT: how do you guys play against big eldrazi? they ramp very fast with sol lands and artifacts and I don't think we can manage their threats (newlamog, ugin, ecc...)

Thank you!
-Force felt very necessary; lots of combo decks in the northeast Legacy scene. I had 19 blue cards main, and for this tournament I brought the fourth Force from the side to the main in place of Trinisphere.
-Ballista was great against Young Pyromancer and DnT (although I still lost those matches). I like my configuration of 1 each Ballista 1 Deluge main and 1 each side, because sometimes your opponents don't have any creatures and they're dead cards.
-Misdirection comes in against decks that play Abrupt Decay, since they often have a deathrite as well (or even better, True-Name!) that can take that bullet for your Chalice. Maybe even High tide, if they still play BSZ?
-I didn't really think of Blood Moon in this deck, but artifact mana plays very well along side land locks like BM. I think there's plenty of annoying cards for 4c to deal with already, but I'll keep it in mind going forward.
I used Lodestone to hose Storm and also put a clock on them, but SG can definitely do the first part without being countered.

I lost the only match I played against Eldrazi, but it really comes down to landing and protecting Bridge ASAP. The Abyss definitely helps as well, and you've also got some free slots main against them (since they also play chalice, those come out immediately!) Slaughter games is at its best here, as Ulamog is basically their only way to get rid of bridge (since you should be stealing their ratchet bombs with Dack!)

[JohnDonnerball]

Hey Guys,
first time posting on the Source, made an account only for the love of Tezzeret.

first of all, congrats to Jake for the 15th place with this beauty!

I've been playing Tezzerator for about 3 months and have surely a lot to learn!
Especially the Sideboard gives me a hard time, with all this options and the powerful black enchantments this deck allows us to play, Abyss, Chains and Nether Void.
Luckily I own two copies of each one. But how many of wich one are the right amount in the SB? Keep it "traditional" and play only one Abyss and one Chains?
And does Nether Void make any sense at all?
At the moment I try two Abyss and one Chains, sometimes topdecking a second Abyss is a bit awkward especially when you don't have the Greatest Thief in the Multiverse to loot it away.


My current List

//Lands
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

//Planeswalker
3 Dack Fayden
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

//Artifacts
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Dimir Signet
4 Mox Diamond

//Stuff
4 Force of Will
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Transmute Artifact

//Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
1 Walking Ballista
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation

//Sideboard
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Misdirection
2 The Abyss
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Trinisphere

greetings from Germany!

Tobi

[Tucane]

Hey Guys,
first time posting on the Source, made an account only for the love of Tezzeret.

first of all, congrats to Jake for the 15th place with this beauty!

I've been playing Tezzerator for about 3 months and have surely a lot to learn!
Especially the Sideboard gives me a hard time, with all this options and the powerful black enchantments this deck allows us to play, Abyss, Chains and Nether Void.
Luckily I own two copies of each one. But how many of wich one are the right amount in the SB? Keep it "traditional" and play only one Abyss and one Chains?
And does Nether Void make any sense at all?
At the moment I try two Abyss and one Chains, sometimes topdecking a second Abyss is a bit awkward especially when you don't have the Greatest Thief in the Multiverse to loot it away.


My current List

//Lands
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

//Planeswalker
3 Dack Fayden
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

//Artifacts
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Dimir Signet
4 Mox Diamond

//Stuff
4 Force of Will
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Transmute Artifact

//Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
1 Walking Ballista
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation

//Sideboard
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Misdirection
2 The Abyss
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Trinisphere

greetings from Germany!

Tobi

Welcome!

I like The Abyss vs various flavors of BUG and Eldrazi... so if you expect those then more copies should be fine. It does nothing vs TNN though. If I owned 2 Chains, I'd definitely run both in my SB with a full playset of MD Dack's:-)

[gibsonjunkie]

From the Dominaria spoilers today:

The Antiquities War
3U Enchantment — Saga

(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)

I, II — Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal an artifact card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.

III — Artifacts you control become artifact creatures with base power and toughness 5/5 until end of turn.

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[Undomian]

I'm really excited to test Damping Sphere, I think that card might have a lot of potential even if it does mess with our sol lands.

EDIT: I think The Antiquities War is probably garbage. It's a worse Tezz, AoB that can't even make chump blockers in a pinch.

[a tribe called trest]

I'm really excited to test Damping Sphere, I think that card might have a lot of potential even if it does mess with our sol lands.

EDIT: I think The Antiquities War is probably garbage. It's a worse Tezz, AoB that can't even make chump blockers in a pinch.

Kinda narrow, but antiquities war is probably decent sideboard tech against pile. It dies to red blasts just the same as tezz and dack, but it can't be attacked or bolted off the table like dack and tezz.

[Undomian]

Kinda narrow, but antiquities war is probably decent sideboard tech against pile. It dies to red blasts just the same as tezz and dack, but it can't be attacked or bolted off the table like dack and tezz.

As with any card it can't hurt to playtest it, but I can think of a few other 4-mana do-nothings that are probably more effective in that matchup, and I even play one of them. :really:

[a tribe called trest]

As with any card it can't hurt to playtest it, but I can think of a few other 4-mana do-nothings that are probably more effective in that matchup, and I even play one of them. :really:

Haha well said.

The only counter I'd offer is that while it durdles and does nothing initially, the game will end when it gets to 3rd lore counter.

[gibsonjunkie]

No, I definitely agree it's probably not good enough. Just thought it was worth serious discussion. It definitely is a harder-to-interact-with Tezz, though. I believe you get the first effect immediately at least.

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[Foamy]

I'm speaking mostly in the context of UB here, but I think I'd be more interested in testing Karn, Scion of Urza before I try playing The Antiquities War. The Constructs that he makes off his -2 will often be 3/3s at the very least, and his first two abilities can help you find cards while also keeping his loyalty pretty high. With all of that said, though, he strikes me as a worse Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Tezzeret's +1 gives you the best artifact among the top five, while Karn's +1 gives you the worst card among the top two. Tezzeret can make three 5/5s in a row with his minus, while Karn can only make two X/Xs before needing to go up. Karn is most certainly outclassed by other planeswalker options, but he's still worth a cursory glance, at least.

[Peebs]

Interesting to note that Karn can be cast off only 2 Sol lands, and can’t be pyroblasted.

[Cyanhur]

Interesting to note that Karn can be cast off only 2 Sol lands, and can’t be pyroblasted.

Yes, maybe we can do something with it.

I played your list since some days with padeem main, i am enjoy!

I will do a big tornament in 15 days i hope i will be ready

[Cyanhur]

Interesting to note that Karn can be cast off only 2 Sol lands, and can’t be pyroblasted.

What can we change main deck for it?

[kingtk3]

I'd sooner play coercive portal than the new karn

[a tribe called trest]

The way Karn is worded, it's card draw gets around leovold. It's probably good in any U/B builds running 7 sol lands.

[kingtk3]

That's true. I should elaborate my previous post: if you use +1 and -1 in sequence, baby Karn is like a faster coercive portal which can be killed by attacking creatures.
Of course the portal can be destroyed by artifact removals, but they are fewer than creatures.

What I really don't like is that the opponent gets to choose what card you get with the +1 (which should be the most irrelevant for you) and that he gain information of your hand and can play accordingly. I don't know if that's a huge factor but it's something to consider.

However karn also has a -2 which can protect him or give you a win condition: in this deck however I don't think the tokens will be larger than Tezzeret AOB animated artifacts, unless you already have the sword/thopter combo, but in this case you're already winning.

[Peebs]

Agreed, Karn seems like a worse Tezzeret AoB, but if we're in the market for more than 4 Tezz, it's worth looking into. I'm not really sure what would come out for it/them, though.

Also, if the opponent is attacking our planeswalkers, that means they aren't attacking us, so we get some pseudo-lifegain there. If we have a bridge active, then they aren't attacking anyway! "Drawing" cards lessens bridge's effect, of course, but if it's buying us time against a deck like Sneak and Show, a card or two isn't going to mean the difference between swinging with Griselbrand or not.