[Podcast] Everyday Eternal #3 - Armageddon

[thecrav]

This week on Everyday Eternal, Matt Pavlic (sdematt), Jacob Kory (koby), Sean O’Brien (nedleeds), and Sam Craven (thecrav) discuss the Legacy format’s reliance, or over-reliance, on non-basic lands and what you can do to punish these greedy manabases.


Link! (http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=4054)

This episode is a bit shorter than the previous two. We finished up early to bullshit, which got cut due to, well, honestly, me being really tired while editing. Based on previous feedback though, I'll be making sure to leave the bullshit from now on!

Let us know what you think @EternalMTG or everydayEternalCast@gmail.com

Addendum: We may or may not be recording a cast this week. Everyone's still a little tired from Vegas and some of us are feeling a little off.

[sdematt]

I have awful allergies in this podcast. Please excuse them.

If we end up recording tonight, I'll also be sick :P

-Matt

[ScatmanX]

Really liked this one. Keep em coming!
Thanks.

[nedleeds]

We stated the obvious a little bit too much in this one and didn't get detailed enough IMHO. Will look to improve in the future. <lashes self> :rolleyes:

Edit: HAHAHAAHAHAAH "Despite punting more than Raul Allegre" ... I think he was actually a kicker.

[Megadeus]

Lol at the comment about my red dark confidant... God Tibalt was terrible. I was punting more than Reggie Roby.

[nedleeds]

Lol at the comment about my red dark confidant... God Tibalt was terrible. I was punting more than Reggie Roby.

Hey I didn't mention you by name. But yes .... Sean Landeta or Reggie Roby was what I was looking for.

[Megadeus]

as a (depressed) dolphins fan, ill take any comparison to Reggie Roby that I.can get

[nedleeds]

I'm a Jet fan. Unsure what's worse. At least the Dolphins have a storied history, and the greatest passer in history. The Jets have an alcoholic party animal who sacked into a Super Bowl win ... and the butt fumble.

[Megadeus]

I'm a Jet fan. Unsure what's worse. At least the Dolphins have a storied history, and the greatest passer in history. The Jets have an alcoholic party animal who sacked into a Super Bowl win ... and the butt fumble.

There's always Tim Tebow I suppose... I'm glad a jets fan is willing to admit Namath is a tad overrated lol

[Koby]

EE 3, also known as "lets metaphorize about punting"

[oarsman]

I am stunned that the entire podcast group decided that killing Sylvan Library was more important than Dark Confidant.

[guelahpapyrus]

Saw World War Z. It's more action/horror than anything else. B+.

[sdematt]

I am stunned that the entire podcast group decided that killing Sylvan Library was more important than Dark Confidant.

I mean, I'm sure there are situations where one is better than the other, and it depends on the deck you're playing. Where I'm coming from in my answers is my deck has Decays and Swords. I can always draw another removal than can kill Confidant (ex. I'd have 6 pieces left that kill confidant, but only 3 that kill Sylvan).

It also depends on your life total, board position, deck you're playing, deck they're playing, etc. Either way, Sylvan is not a good card to see across the table and I would want to kill it immediately, Joe.

-Matt

[thecrav]

Saw World War Z. It's more action/horror than anything else. B+.

I predict there will be more WWZ conversation tonight, whether we do a cast or not!

[nedleeds]

There's always Tim Tebow I suppose... I'm glad a jets fan is willing to admit Namath is a tad overrated lol

Yeah Namath has a big fucking ball sack and a decent arm, but wasn't consistent and would be viewed as Ken O'Brien if he lost that game. The greatest QB ever is John Elway and it's not particularly close. He took DII teams to the Super Bowl 3 times, is still the best all around athlete to play quarterback (strength, speed, arm strength). Maybe Montana is a better leader / winner but he had 5 hall of famers. Ditto Bradshaw. Marino is probably the most accurate and best pure passer ever.

Staying on topic, Island is a good card.

[Megadeus]

Yeah Namath has a big fucking ball sack and a decent arm, but wasn't consistent and would be viewed as Ken O'Brien if he lost that game. The greatest QB ever is John Elway and it's not particularly close. He took DII teams to the Super Bowl 3 times, is still the best all around athlete to play quarterback (strength, speed, arm strength). Maybe Montana is a better leader / winner but he had 5 hall of famers. Ditto Bradshaw. Marino is probably the most accurate and best pure passer ever.

Staying on topic, Island is a good card.

I can get with Elway. Montana is the MJ of football. He was a great athlete but he had the knack to win (and like you said, great players surrounding him), but I can get behind Elway being the best overall body of work in terms of every skill needed to be a QB. Bradshaw is horribly overrated in my book. Him and Namath both have more career INTs than TDs. I know it was a run first league back then but jeez.

Island is indeed a god card. It casts a delver then helps daze stuff. Magic.

As for the Sylvan Library discussion, I can get behind killing that over a Bob. Card selection, and sometimes card advantage. Im also glad that you guys pointed out that was an activated ability that you may decline to activate incase your opponent has a notion thief or something else that is ridiculous.

[HammafistRoob]

There's always Tim Tebow I suppose... I'm glad a jets fan is willing to admit Namath is a tad overrated lol

Tebow signed up to be Brady's benchwarmer, so basically the Jets are idiots and need new coaching. I never understood why they played Sanchez at all, besides Rex Ryan obviously having a man crush on him.

I am also shocked about the Bob vs. Library discussion. Of course it really comes down to the board state, life totals, and how many answers you have for each and whatnot. But Bob generates CA much better while also being a clock. In a lot of situations Library is basically a bad Sensei's Top(meaning you can't afford to pay 4). I've won many games against active Library, can't say the same of Bob.

[nedleeds]

A deck might have 8-10 ways to remove bob. but only 3-4 to remove library. bob may incur enough life loss for a deck with a good deal of damage on board to risk having him live. sylvan can provide higher card quality; while bob (barring a top; jace; or sylvan) is still a random card. there is no absolute right or wrong answer and the various heuristics involved in targeting bob or sylvan are pretty vast.

"a computer can never learn to brainstorm" - Alex "2 Explores" Bertocheaty

[HammafistRoob]

Very true sir. However, in the scenario we are describing, I'm assuming you currently have only one answer to either one. If you don't topdeck an answer to Bob in 2-3 turns(even with 8, this is very possible) the game is effectively over ~90% of the time. Against most decks, Library is more of an insane CQ machine, so it's quite hard to really compare the two on a fundamental level.

Obviously if you're playing Miracles Library is far more scary for you. But I thought we were talking about a BGx deck? If I'm piloting a BGx deck sitting across from Bob and Library, it really depends on the gamestate more than anything. Sure Bob is random and all, but my curve keeps that in check. How many times does having Bob around actually kill you? I don't think that's really a feasible part of the comparison since it should pretty much never happen. At his worst in this scenario he will net you 1 card and they will burn their topdecked removal on him, seems pretty good still. At his best, he can hit them for 2 while you keep the board clear. Heck he can even fog a creature, but that is sooo corner-case.

Idk, they are both phenomenal in their own light. You can't really make a call on the right play with no information other than you're both on BG decks.

EDIT- Wow that was a rambling post, sorry I'm slightly inebriated. Also epic quote leeds, had me rollin' (see great quotes thread)

EDIT2- Also, it's debatable if Sylvan creates more CQ. If you have tons of fetches(you should) then it's definitely possible. But without a shuffle effect it only lets you see 1 new card per turn, whereas Bob GIVES you 2 new cards per turn. Basically, w/o a shuffle effect, Sylvan lets you see 4 cards in 2 draw steps. Bob gives you 4 cards in 2 upkeeps at a marginal cost. Granted if you add a fetch to the equation Sylvan lets you see 6 cards in 2 draw steps. Or if you paid 4 it skews these numbers obviously. The point is that Sylvans strength is also random, albeit in a completely different way. Now I'm not saying Bob is a better CQ engine, I actually don't think he is, but there are things that are tough to factor in which make it debatable.

[ESG]

These podcasts are good. You guys are entertaining and insightful, and you have great chemistry.

[nedleeds]

<snip wall of text>

You see my point, there's no absolute right or wrong. I think in the future we'll do a better job of proposing a scenario - then writing it up in the show notes - and going around and discussing play lines. If you can read the game state it makes for more compelling babbling.

e.g.

Deck lists A and B, life totals, your hand, and the board ....

[(nameless one)]

I was a little disappointed that it was short. I guess I'm just greedy.

But honestly, it was good. How to beat Bastard.dec; I approve.

I wonder if Armageddon Stax can make a comeback.

Also, I feel that Suppression Field can really wreak havoc in the format right now. I mean look at this: Super Jace, Deathrite, Fetchlands, Lilliana. Come one, does anyone have the kahunas to pull this off?

When I first saw the title, this is the first thing that came to my mind:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Jt_g10Jug‎

[sdematt]

More than a few people have told me it's too short. We'll talk it over.

-Matt

[nedleeds]

Also, I feel that Suppression Field can really wreak havoc in the format right now. I mean look at this: Super Jace, Deathrite, Fetchlands, Lilliana. Come one, does anyone have the kahunas to pull this off?

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25474-I-m-a-Juggernaut-gt-Drop-gt-SCG-Atlanta-with-M0AT_ST0MPY

Really now?

[HammafistRoob]

More than a few people have told me it's too short. We'll talk it over.

-Matt

I didn't think so, but you could always make up for it next episode if you'd like. To me it doesn't matter how long it is, as long as there is good quality topics and discussions. You guys obviously do your homework and do a good job of getting different opinions out there. You all come up with good ways to either support anothers theories or counteract them, and it leads to very good listening material.

[(nameless one)]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25474-I-m-a-Juggernaut-gt-Drop-gt-SCG-Atlanta-with-M0AT_ST0MPY

Really now?

Of course! The Nether Void guy figures it out!

[KIP_NZ]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25474-I-m-a-Juggernaut-gt-Drop-gt-SCG-Atlanta-with-M0AT_ST0MPY

Really now?

For more than 1 reason you are my MTG hero.
1) For home brewing this concoction
2) As an ex-judge for slapping players around for not understanding the rules
3) For the EE podcast.
4) The O'Brien school is the school I love the most.

I used to play in the mid 90's & your Nether Void deck featured in either Duelist or Inquest had me dreaming of playing a Nether Void on an opponent then. Fast forward 16 years and I got back into the game last April and immediately ordered 3 Nether Void's for my home brew Legacy Smokestack / Pox deck to try and brew. Needless to say that deck didn't work out well till Cavern of Souls got printed & now I run a Void / Sinkhole / Cavern of Souls naming Zombies deck as my home brew which gets a lot of WTF questions from people. After seeing your Moat deck I'm tempted to build my own Moat deck with a different slant :)

I've been lurking on this forum for over a year & this post finally made me register.

[sdematt]

Recorded a good cast tonight even through some extraordinary technical difficulties. It'll be up in a jiffy! Stay tuned!

-Matt

[Goin Aggro]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25474-I-m-a-Juggernaut-gt-Drop-gt-SCG-Atlanta-with-M0AT_ST0MPY

Really now?

Sorry to go off topic on the podcast: It's great.

Nedleeds, you're a fucking hero for building and playing that deck. There's just no other way to describe it.

[Megadeus]

That deck = Infinite Frustration (and infinite lulz if you are watching it played)