[article] Esper Deathblade

[feline]

UW Stoneblade -to- Esperblade -to- the now, Deathblade: http://blog.mtgdeals.com/flongmore/esper-deathblade/

[Shawon]

You have a knack for being informative while being straight to the point. That's a skill set I have much need to improve with my writing. Good work.

[catmint]

Some good content but also a lot of "stating the obvious". Strongly disagree with 2 conclusions from this article.

1) SCG is not Legacy. Looking at TCdecks or thesource DTB selection gives you a much more objective view and stoneblade is far from domination. Also if you compare how good old stoneblade variants matched up against a wide meta I don't feel the current version has a bigger edge. Look at cascade and fire/grove. Also strong midrange engines which can keep up with stoneblade. Just because the SCG team is jumping on one train and many people in this series follow it does not make it the best build, best deck or whatever. These SCG hypes/trends have been wrong/temporary as well in the past.

2) The concept of "the best deck" is not viable for legacy. This is what makes the format great. For every step where you improve in one direction there is a tradeoff somewhere else. There is no way a linear deck can be the best deck (unless the format is broken) because it can be hated out and the non-linear "beat all deck" can never cover all angles. You seem to fail to see where deathblade is vulnerable.

[HSCK]

SCG Opens are the most important Legacy tournaments to plan for aren't they? Focusing your attention on the meta for one is more useful than looking elsewhere if you're in the states. The next Legacy GP isn't for 4.5 months, so in regards to the article I think the author is correct in his assessment on how to deal with the meta.

[catmint]

If you want to prepare for SCG - sure it helps. Altough I would write an article about "how to kick all the netdeckers ass" instead of writing "this is the best deck and you should play". Still, SCG is NOT legacy.

[HSCK]

So how would you define format beyond expected meta and trends for top 8-16 decks for the biggest Legacy tournaments being played?

[Patrunkenphat7]

Yes I must agree that from my experience even on the local level, everyone is jumping onto Deathblade. This is not a deck that was created and overly hyped by SCG players. They stole it from people who were consistently doing VERY well with it since March. I probably shouldn't say "stole," because there's nothing wrong with that, but my point is that there's a reason why they jumped on the wagon.

Also I think there is a reasonable debate as to how good it is compared to stock Esper, but that doesn't change the fact that at least in the United States, this is probably the deck to beat right now.

[Adryan]

The worst article i've read for a long time. No valuable information for anyone who has a brain and is playing Legacy for more than a month.

The time will show that it's only a good deck not the best deck. I'd say that Pfire Jund with Life from the Loam Maindeck has a positive matchup.

[Julian23]

I appreciate the time and dedication feline has always shown with regards to Legacy. That being said, I think the major point of criticism of her writing comes from it being rather strategically shallow, thus sometimes creating the impression of "stating the obvious". Still, for beginners and people only playing Legacy "casually", they provide valueable insight into the format.

[Kich867]

I don't actually understand the hype for this deck. It sacrifices it's combo matchup for having like, a slightly more positive fair deck matchup, and that just doesn't make sense to me. It's still just as bad against Punishing Jund as Esper is, except it's worse against Combo. Esper has like, 45-55% matchup main deck objectively against virtually all decks except probably Punishing Jund and maybe Shardless Bug. And if the pilot really knows what they're doing, it's probably closer to 60-80% in their favor. Experienced, expert Esper pilots are given a deck that has an answer to every strategy, and with amazing play requires only an inch of a lead to turn it into a mile. And then sideboards into wildly specific hate against everything, it turns into a deck that becomes extraordinarily focused to hate you out of the game no matter what you're playing.

For what? Losing lingering souls, supreme verdict main deck, counterspells, a consistent unfuckwithable manabase...gaining deathrite shaman and bob. They already have massive card advantage through brainstorm and jace, you don't need bob. Turn 3 jace is cool and all, but so is batterskull on turn 3. So is not dying to combo turn 1. So is having a better manabase and lingering souls..

[Patrunkenphat7]

The SCG players like Todd Anderson play very janky lists. The good lists of this deck play Geist main which is a fast clock against combo, a trump in any control matchup, and the best card against Punishing Jund. They also play enough blue cards to actually support Force of Will (not 14...), and they do not unnecessarily splash a 4th color for a removal spell. It does not have a worse combo matchup than stock Esper if you correctly build your list. The deck initially gained a lot of popularity because it has similar matchups to stock Esper, but it is very good against stock Esper. Deathrite Shaman adds a ton of utility in random matchups, and the ramp gives you the edge in Jace matchups. Saying that Punishing Jund with Life from the Loam is a bad matchup is an unfair statement, because the sole purpose of that deck is to beat fair decks while losing to everything else.

I will say that I have had decent success with the deck. My sanctioned match records included winning a GP Trial (7-0-1), winning a win-a-box (3-0), top 16 of an open (7-2), and 9th place at the last SCG Invitational (6-2). This is a combined sanctioned record of 23-4-1, and it was all before the Starcity grinders like Todd Anderson even started playing the deck. I played against a varied field and have a lot of experience playing many different archetypes. The deck is really good, and you should play it before passing judgement.

[sdematt]

The worst article i've read for a long time. No valuable information for anyone who has a brain and is playing Legacy for more than a month.

The time will show that it's only a good deck not the best deck. I'd say that Pfire Jund with Life from the Loam Maindeck has a positive matchup.


God forbid people write articles about Legacy for people who are just getting into Legacy, or are perhaps thinking about it.

-Matt

[TraxDaMax]

Thanks for the article.
I must say I enjoy reading mostly everything, even if I don't completely agree with everything. As is the case here.
I still need to get my butt kicked by this deck but I just haven't seen anybody play it in my meta, which is why I'm still sceptic about it "being the best deck".
Perhaps we have too many combo players, I don't know. I have the feeling people are still on the BUG/RUG train here.

Like last week we had a 66 man tourny, Top 4 split was Shardless Bug, Elves, BRUG, and UG Infect.
I myself didn't play against any Deathblade in 7 rounds. Even though I did play a diversity of decks (miracles, zoo, Junk, BRUG,U/W Stoneblade,The Gate, Elves)

What I do agree on is that the 1/2 Elf, has made a huge impact on Legacy. Played BRUG myself last week, and I'm really liking him over Goyf. The Tempo gain with a virtual landdrop is just huge. So I'd be quicker to say that Deathriteshaman.dec is the best deck to be playing.

[catmint]

So how would you define format beyond expected meta and trends for top 8-16 decks for the biggest Legacy tournaments being played?

As I wrote I think the DTB selection of the forum we are all using does already a pretty good job. It takes the top8-32 finishes from all tournaments posted on http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy and there is a system I dont know in details to weight the finishes. So I think a top16 of SCG counts more than a top4 of a 20 man tourney.

If there is a trend pushed by SCG many people take it over and it is also reflects in tcdecks from all the smaller tournaments beeing played. In case of deathblade it did not happen so far and I think it won't happen. Myself and others played with deathblade before SCG made it "big" and there is enough room to keep it in check. Besides the obvious jund I think you can also tune canadian and other tier decks to punish this version of deathblade which not everyone figured out yet.

[JDK]

As I wrote I think the DTB selection of the forum we are all using does already a pretty good job. It takes the top8-32 finishes from all tournaments posted on http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy and there is a system I dont know in details to weight the finishes. So I think a top16 of SCG counts more than a top4 of a 20 man tourney.

If there is a trend pushed by SCG many people take it over and it is also reflects in tcdecks from all the smaller tournaments beeing played. In case of deathblade it did not happen so far and I think it won't happen. Myself and others played with deathblade before SCG made it "big" and there is enough room to keep it in check. Besides the obvious jund I think you can also tune canadian and other tier decks to punish this version of deathblade which not everyone figured out yet.

Last time I checked it used http://tcdecks.net/tierdecks.php to determine DTBs.

[JanoschEausH]

SCG Opens are the most important Legacy tournaments to plan for aren't they? Focusing your attention on the meta for one is more useful than looking elsewhere if you're in the states. The next Legacy GP isn't for 4.5 months, so in regards to the article I think the author is correct in his assessment on how to deal with the meta.

I aggree that SCG Opens are one of the most important, because big and frequent, tournaments in the USA. But what I also see, is that the skill being shown on the streams is pretty low sometimes. There are a group of pros that play those events frequently and they have a much higher skill level than the average SCG competitor. Unfortunately those pro players often tend to play the same deck (Esper Deathblade in this regard), which leads to a lot of good finishes for the archetype. What people forget is, that Top 8 or Top 16 placements aren't attributable solely to how a deck is build. Luck and player skill are much more important variables. Someone once said: "You could hand Sam Black a deck with 60 Mountains and he still would find a way to win."

[HSCK]

So the best players just happen to be playing that deck and doing well? Maybe the best players are choosing that deck for a reason?

[mini1337s]

People know that combo is very strong in the current, and even moreso in the North American, metagame. It takes a certain type of person to enjoy Storm and Show and Tell variants, and I'd bet that they are in the minority. A lot of people want to have a creature based game for several reasons:
- Combat is generally one of the first aspects of the game that you learn
- In formats like standard or limited, it's generally the only/main way to win the game
- It's generally easier to understand (IE. Generally there is limited use of the stack and it can be understood with little knowledge of the game mechanics)
- The gameplay can be seen as being much more interactive than a spell-based game

People also want to maximize value in their collection. With the price of legacy at an all time high, it's no wonder that we see decks with high concentrations of crossformat cards. At this point, the main distinction between several tiered Legacy (Jund being a prime example) and Modern decks is whether your lands deal 2 damage or not.

[twndomn]

Right now, Legacy has 2 stars: Value and Combo

BUG and Stoneblade are known for the value of each card. Value as in, every card can be seen as 2 cards in 1 (1/2 dude with free equipment tutor).

Then there is combo, not belcher combo, but blue based combo, which includes high tide.

That and the race to see who can utilize graveyard better. That's the nutshell of legacy.