Eureka Stax - yes, another Eureka thread

[frogger42]

Just a reminder to basement builders who don't leave their confines: give constructive criticism! I've been hearing how terrible Eureka is from people who've never played it. That doesn't work here. If you have experience with this card, I'm glad to hear what you think about it. And if not, no worries, feel free to make card suggestions or point out problems with the list or whatever.

So I just built this deck a few days ago, but the idea's been mulling in my head for at least a year. Basically, the theory is to run a Prison-y Stax deck with Eureka to get all your lock pieces down in one turn. So far, I've been finding the more Planeswalkers you get down (powerful ones - not Ajani), the more you're breaking Eureka. So it's not quite Stax... but it does run the manabase and prison elements like it. Here's a list:


4 Mox Diamond
4 Savannah
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Karakas
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland

3 Eureka
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Humility

4 Elspeth, Knight Errant
3 Batterskull
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Gideon Jura
3 Karn Liberated



Eureka - Because everything is inherently castable in this deck, Eureka becomes more of a skill card than a "I need to play this to win" card. Like Dream Halls in Omni-Show. If you're in the position where it might backfire, just stick to the normal plan, Stan - drop PW'ers and prison pieces. Why include it? I think it's nice to have some unfair Legends card that can blow out certain MUs. It also sneaks stuff through counters (like Humility) and gives another "need to counter" spell in those MUs.
Karakas/ Oblivion Ring - to shut down Teeg (just in case), or to bounce the more prevalent Thalia, who just demolishes this deck. O ring is like another activation of Karn off of Eureka, should you need it.
Crucible - I tried another version that didn't have a great manabase, and I think Crucible is a good idea to maintain resiliency in the face of Wasteland. No room for manlands.
Chalice - Still stops Brainstorm, StoPs, and Spell Pierce.
Karn, Vraska et al. - These go 1-for-1 against your opponent's Eureka drops, except you still have a card on the table to generate card (and board) advantage next turn.


SB: Rest in Peace, Trinisphere, Leyline of Sanctity, O Rings 3 and 4.

It's just built, so it's definitely far from optimized. Feel free to come at me with your ideas!

[lochlan]

Eureka seems awful in this deck. It doesn't do nearly enough and it lets your opponent play things for free. I wouldn't feel safe casting it in this deck unless I had at least two of the following: Vraska, Karn, O.Ring. And even then you can still just die to decks with a high creature count.

[(nameless one)]

This needs Tangle Wires to deal with anything Oring and your Planeswalkers can't deal with (aka Swarm Aggro)

[Poron]

why not Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in such a deck?
Also, Doubling Season would be just fun (though mere win more)

[frogger42]

Eureka seems awful in this deck. It doesn't do nearly enough and it lets your opponent play things for free. I wouldn't feel safe casting it in this deck unless I had at least two of the following: Vraska, Karn, O.Ring. And even then you can still just die to decks with a high creature count.

Then don't cast it against Zoo...?

Tangle Wire seems really interesting, actually. The one problem is that it can also tap lands, and if my opponent plays out a couple for free, then it doesn't end up doing anything. I think O Ring is a bit more predictable.

[frogger42]

why not Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in such a deck?
Also, Doubling Season would be just fun (though mere win more)

I went with Karn instead because he also takes care of any permanent with his -3, plus he's castable. I didn't want any cards that would stick in your hand without Eureka, because sometimes you won't want to play Eureka - like against Goblins or other decks with high threat-density. Eureka is a liability then, except when you have Humility.
I think Doubling Season isn't necessary, because basically you want to remove threats right after Eureka, but what the deck wants is more activations off the PW'ers. I think this is too fancy, but Rings of Brighthearth would fit right in, though O Ring is much more versatile.

[(nameless one)]

Tapping your lands?

I sure that if you resolve Eureka and flop down your hand, you'd only be tapping your lock pieces. Also, if you get multiple planeswalkers on the field, you are way ahead. Tangle Wire just ensures your planeswalkers don't die to aggro.

By itself, you might tap one or two lands, along with your Chalice and Crucible. It still slows down the opponent more than it slows you. You're already a slow deck with little deck manipulation. You need all the stall you need to draw into your bombs

Picture this: you turn 2 Tangle Wire. Sure your not doing anything next turn. But the following second turn, you could be windmill slamming Eureka and spamming the board while your opponent complains on how stupid Stax decks are.

[nedleeds]

Am I counting right, 30 lands/mox? With no library manipulation? Your Eureka is likely to be bad Explore most games.

[frogger42]

Picture this: you turn 2 Tangle Wire. Sure your not doing anything next turn. But the following second turn, you could be windmill slamming Eureka and spamming the board while your opponent complains on how stupid Stax decks are.

I think there's some merit to what you're saying. Tangle Wire does slow the game down and let Eureka be that much more brutal a turn or two down the line. After a Eureka, though, I think it'd mostly tap down the extra lands my opp laid down. I also suspect it might not be a great meta choice with Stoneforge Mystic an auto-include in any white deck. One card making 3 permanents... oof. I can definitely see it rocking the SB, as it would hurt certain aggro MUs. I'll try it out after I figure out the manabase and all.

Eureka tends to go for 2, sometimes 3 pieces. Not a whole lot, but it also keeps them from being countered. I suppose if you've been wasted out of playing stuff for a couple turns, it'd be a massive catch-up to cast it. Still trying the deck out, though, so we'll see how it goes - some situations it's crazy, sometimes it's just a horrible topdeck. Stuff to work out. Thanks!

[somethingdotdotdot]

I dont think wasteland is something you want to play with eureka. Resource denial in general seems counterproductive when you give your opponent a way to cheat anything they were about to cast into play. This is especially true when your things dont just straight up win the game for you.

[frogger42]

I dont think wasteland is something you want to play with eureka. Resource denial in general seems counterproductive when you give your opponent a way to cheat anything they were about to cast into play.

You're right about this. I was looking for low-costed things to put into the deck for Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors, and Crucible of Worlds seemed the best option. Those slots would either be Wasteland or Mishra's Factory, and I figured Waste was just generally a more powerful card than Factory; hence the inclusion of Waste. It might be better as a couple Tabernacles, but I'm not a huge fan of the card here.

I don't run auto-win cards like Omniscience with Eureka so that I can run castable spells instead, and not rely so hard on resolving a CMC 4 card to win. I'm trying to use Eureka as a "win more" card instead of a "win now" card, so it's really a different strategy. Eureka is far riskier than Show and Tell to resolve, so I don't want to have to rely on it always; I'd like the option to blow out certain decks, or just grind with PW'ers if I hit something that benefits more than I do off my own Eureka. It's why Omni/Show runs Dream Halls - not just for more Omni's, but so that you can hardcast your combo piece in case Show and Tell won't win it for you (O-Ring, Meddling Mage). It's a risk vs power proposition - I don't want to rely on Eureka for too many reasons. There are no good "win now" cards when I run Humility, too.
(Hence why Karn > Nicol Bolas)

EDIT: Thanks for the feedback!

[frogger42]

I put my best man on this deck. He suggested Batterskull was teh nutz; whereas Vraska was awkward to cast. So out with Vraska and black! I agree, totally.
I dunno what he won against Round 1, but the deck lost to infect R2. Just too fast; got it in Turn 2 on the play. It seems like it might be possible to run this kind of deck as a Tier 1.5-2, but I strongly suspect it's going to be very slow without Eureka for this format. Still, it's got a lot of potential bombs to resolve (always nice).

EDIT: The deck apparently is a pain not to have library manipulation, but I didn't include Sylvan Library because there aren't that many shuffle effects (5 fetches... and Crucible, sort of). I think Abundance is a consideration, except it only helps when you have 4 mana and are likely winning the game already... nuts. Sensei's Top runs into Chalice and Scroll Rack I don't think quite fits the deck. I'd love suggestions for what to do about this.

[frogger42]

I played the deck last week and won a round or two. The big, miserable problem with it: it's so bloody slow! I think I want to cut Karns and move them to the SB, find something around CMC 3 that will work wonders somehow. I don't think Tangle Wire is that card, but it might be.
Also, I think I want to get a couple of those lands as Chrome Moxen. That wouldn't be a bad idea, help speed the bloody mana curve up.

Or I might do BG. I have a few tech-y cards in mind :)

[thefreakaccident]

This deck would be great with a focus on hellbent shit, like ensnaring bridge. Well maybe not great, but it would be better?

Tabernacle?

If tabernacle, maybe Armageddon in the board, removing something for flagstones as well?

[frogger42]

This deck would be great with a focus on hellbent shit, like ensnaring bridge. Well maybe not great, but it would be better?

Tabernacle?

If tabernacle, maybe Armageddon in the board, removing something for flagstones as well?

I was actually working on a BG brew with Gibbering Descent (and Braids, Tangle Wire) but took out Eureka for a bit. I might go back to that. Didn't think to run Bridge...