[Article]Eternal Europe: M14 The End Of Days

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Well, I told you Dark Prophecy was going to be tackled today:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26553_M14-The-End-Of-Days.html

Enjoy and let me know what you think!

[Gheizen64]

Fecundity's better.

[Gheizen64]

I mean, i usually like your articles and i still like this article because it show some creative and good brewing, but fecundity has always existed and was never touched. I could've understood brewing something around young pyromancer, but not this honestly.

[TsumiBand]

I think it makes sense to try and exploit the one-sidedness though, right? Just maybe not in a Grixis list, even if it does have Dark Ritual.

Surprised not to see Intuition alongside Quiet Speculation. And I don't remember who said it but any list that runs Quiet Spec and Young Pyro could Intuition for Dread Return, Faithless Looting and "the right fatty to wreck someone's day".

Is Deep Analysis not worth the get in the Pyro/Spec list? It's worse than say Sign in Blood, but it's another potential Quiet Spec target, so maybe it's not.

[rufus]

Fecundity's better.

I'm a little surprised that there wasn't some kindof Glimpse of Nature build with Blood Pet/Tinder Wall/Wild Cantor/Overeager Apprentice and finishes out with something like Pawn of Ulamog.

[Shawon]

Fecundity is definitely better in Goblins than Dark Prophecy, because of the life loss from DP. You (Carsten) can go a step further and recreate a Legacy version of "Dirty Kitty," an old 2006(?) Extended Goblins deck that would use Fecundity, red Rituals including Skirk Prospector, and Empty the Warrens to churn out turn 2-3 wins. I think Brian David-Marshall's record with the deck was being able to reproduce 96 goblins in one turn.

[Gheizen64]

To me Dark Phrophecy is just another wasted opportunity. The card should totally have said "each time a creature die, draw a card and lose 1 life". This way it would've been interesting as a control card, with some side risks. I could've seen it in suicide even, play lots of shit and then snuff out/innocent bloods (for that Persecutor) and draw cards in the process to keep the gas going. It could've played like the old "fair" necro decks that played Knights and lifedrain spells. But like this is just a worse fecundity, because you'd want to play such a cards only in combo decks that care little about the opponent drawing some cards alongside the course of the game.

Problem is that had it triggered on every creature, it would have been overpowered in modern and standard because of every deck running lots and lots of creature. Sad that creature based engine cards are pratically impossible to print nowadays that every deck in modern formats run tons of creature. Even pod is considered overpowered by today's standards.

WotC keep trying for that BBB draw enchantment, but we're still far from it.

[nedleeds]

WotC keep trying for that BBB draw enchantment, but we're still far from it.

Technically it's not drawing; but it's decent.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/42.jpg

[Gheizen64]

Technically it's not drawing; but it's decent.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/42.jpg

Talking about necro, do people still run it in Vintage? It's still good? I remember reading somewhere that playing a Necro in vintage was asking to lose the game or something of the sort.

EDIT: looking at some TMD lists, necro is still used in some lists, but not as much as i though it would, someone more expert on the issue care to explain to me why the card is often skipped in lists?

[nedleeds]

I think lists without Dark Ritual might eschew it in the face of workshops/wastelands/strip mines. As far as netdecks go I think it's predominantly played in wish storm, and any black disruption deck (hexdepths / bg aggro) ...

[emidln]

Talking about necro, do people still run it in Vintage? It's still good? I remember reading somewhere that playing a Necro in vintage was asking to lose the game or something of the sort.

EDIT: looking at some TMD lists, necro is still used in some lists, but not as much as i though it would, someone more expert on the issue care to explain to me why the card is often skipped in lists?

People are dumb. That's the only reason for excluding Necro in decks that includes 5 easy ways to hit BBB on turn 1 (4 Dark Ritual, 1 Black Lotus).

[jamis]

Would including Phyrexian Altar in the Zombies list just be too cute? It's not a combo you're going to pull off quickly or as a Plan A since it's a four card combo, but it does give inevitability against decks that would try to go long with you.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

I didn't read the article. Carsten, I just want to know why you post your articles here for feedback and then clearly just ignore the thread directly after making it. (Prove me wrong and reply)

Not ignoring the thread - I always read every comment made on my articles, usually more than once, actually. I really want to make them as good as possible so feedback is very important for me. It's just that I have a lot to do lately - finally nearing the end of my studies - and I hate not taking the time to reply to questions in reasonable detail. So instead of posting bad/incomplete answers, I generally end up not answering at all at the moment. Correcting the impression that I don't care seemed important enough to respond even if I don't have the time to address everybody elses concerns at the same time, though.

@Everybody: Thanks for reading, there are some sweet ideas and suggestions in here. I'll try to make some more detailed answers to all of you happen later today!

[HammafistRoob]

Touche, I will snip my snarky post. I do like your articles in general, only reason I didn't read this is because the most playable card in M14 is an uncommon, the set is terrible.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

@Gheizen: making things one-sided opens up a lot of doors for use that otherwise would be impossible. Fecundity would really need a combo deck, for example, while this is a pretty sweet value tool. I fully expect this card to see play at some point in the future, even if right now the card pool is missing a card or two to really make Dark Prophecy as good as, say, Goblin Ringleader.
I agree, though, that it would have been totally sweet if it triggered from any creature.

@TsumiBand: Intuition plus Quiet Spec is a little heavy on the tutors, I feel. Deep ANalysis might be worth it but has been dropped from every deck I've tried to use Quiet Spec in because its terrible when drawn and not overly impressive when dumped in the yard.
As for the Reanimation package, how is "Dread Return, Faithless Looting, Fattie" better than just going "Unburial Rites, Gigapede, Fattie" and laughing at Lightning Bolt?

@Shawon: That's what that deck was called! Finally! And yes, Fecundity is probably better in a full Goblin Combo approach. Easier to cast, too.

@rufus: That would have been a sweet approach - maybe we could actually make a Kobolds-level version work? - which I never explored simply because I decided early on that you'd need to run far too many terrible creatures compared to Storm/S&T-based combo-decks to make an all-out combo version viable.

@jamis: I thought about Altar but decided it was too much of a combo piece and not good enough on its own. After rethinking, though, Altar might actually just be better for some of these decks (Zombies, Aristocrats) than any non-creature non-Bombardment sac outlet because it allows you to kind of combo off with Blood Artist and Lingering Souls/Promise of Bunrei/Gravecrawler anyway.

@HammafistRoob: Happy you're calling me out if that's the impression you have - that way I can correct it, otherwise I just wouldn't know^^

[Gheizen64]

I just don't see it honestly. As a "fair" card, and not in a combo deck, Arena's almost always better than this. When you start factoring multiple creature sacc'ed each turn, we go into combo realm and then fecundity's better because it's easier on the manabase. The only concrete advantage i see from this would be ritualing it, but still. Imho the card's just mediocre, Pyromancer is the better and more interesting one.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

I just don't see it honestly. As a "fair" card, and not in a combo deck, Arena's almost always better than this. When you start factoring multiple creature sacc'ed each turn, we go into combo realm and then fecundity's better because it's easier on the manabase. The only concrete advantage i see from this would be ritualing it, but still. Imho the card's just mediocre, Pyromancer is the better and more interesting one.

Nah, more figuring on turn 3 Dark Prophecy, turn 4 Lingering Souls or other (possibly not-yet-printed) token producers. After that this should outdraw Arena quite easily and lead to near combo level turns while the deck still grinds well without Prophecy (different from a normal combo deck that needs its engine to resolve). Young Pyromancer is clearly the most impactful card right now - but I don't find it all that inspiring as something to brew with, tbh (outside of absurd Cabal Therapy interactions).

[Kagehisa]

I would have compared Dark Prophecy to Skullclamp, which is banned. They share the one-sided effect.

Sorry for my very bad english.

On board :
Carrion Feeder
Gravecrawler
Skullclamp

3 mana to cast them all, 1 more to equip Gravecrawler, sac it to draw 2 card, pay 2 more mana (cast Gravecrawler from graveyard and equip it with Skullclamp), sac it to draw 2 cards, etc.

For 4 mana, you draw 2 and u can keep drawing 2 cards for 2 manas etc
6 mana means you draw 4 cards
8 mana means you draw 6 cards
10 mana means you draw 8 cards
etc

the Engine is 2 mana for 2 cards drawn

Now with Dark Prophecy
On board:
Carrion Feeder
Gravecrawler
Dark Prophecy instead of Skullclamp

5 mana to cast them all, sac draw 1 card, and pay one to cast Gravecrawler from graveyard, sac it to draw 1 again and again.

For 5 mana you draw 1 card and then you pay 1 mana to draw 1 card
For 6 mana, you draw 2 cards
For 7 mana, you draw 3 cards
etc

the engine is 1 mana to draw 1 card with life loss

Dark Prophecy can become better in card drawing if in the process you draw (2?) cards like Doom Traveler. I don't know...