Theros thread

[mini1337s]

Hunt the Hunter {g}
Sorcery
Target green creature you control gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
It fights target green creature an opponent controls.
:cry:

Mmmm, Goyf mirrors :P

[Aggro_zombies]

77 cards out of 249:

Two cards which say it all:

Hunt the Hunter {g}
Sorcery
Target green creature you control gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
It fights target green creature an opponent controls.
:cry:
What an unbelievably bad card. Just from a Limited perspective, this thing is close to 12-14 pick territory just because of how ridiculously narrow it is. Not only do you and your opponent have to be in green, but you have to have two roughly equal-sized creatures (or yours has to be outright bigger) and both of those creatures must be green. I get that they don't want Removal > Everything in draft, but this is taking it way too far in the other direction. It feels like something out of Homelands.

[Barook]

Hunt the Hunter:

First reaction: "You can pump your shit and then kill theirs? Awesome!"
After actually reading the card: "You can't even cast it without an opponent having a green critter. This sucks!"

Edit:

Mmmm, Goyf mirrors :P
Or DRS mirrors which are way more common at this point than Goyf mirrors.

[Gheizen64]

Giant Growth solve Goyf mirrors too guise.

[lyracian]

The Red God is up on MTGS and looks playable.
Gives your creature ETB Shock and mass fire breathing for 2R.

[Shawon]

I'm honestly surprised the red god isn't the worst one in the cycle.

[rufus]

The Red God is up on MTGS and looks playable.
Gives your creature ETB Shock and mass fire breathing for 2R.

There's also combo/pseudo-combo potential in the form of Purphoros + creature production.

[Gheizen64]

It's a decent Pandemonium alternative. Most token producer in red aren't really good tho'.

Sam zombies possible inclusion? Gravecrawler become a ping 3 for B when u have a goblin bombardment into play. Too bad 4 mana is uncastable in that deck

[Aggro_zombies]

There's also combo/pseudo-combo potential in the form of Purphoros + creature production.
The gods and their weapons are all designed to get played together. So Thassa's Bident gives you extra cards when you activate Thassa to make creatures unblockable, and Pophyrous (or however you spell it) shocks people when you activate his Hammer to make a Golem. Nylea and her Bow give your creatures the always-amusing trample+deathtouch combination.

My guess is Heliod's spear either taps creatures to do something (making the vigilance relevant) or does something with clerics (making the tokens relevant). The black god is apparently Sign in Blood on a stick, but no one knows what his deal actually is yet.

[Barook]

Seems pretty good with Young Pyromancer. Make some tokens, throwing out some damage to the face, then pump the entire team for the alpha strike.

The damage is also pretty relevant tech against Planeswalkers, especially against Jace bounce.

Question is what deck would play him in Legacy at a 4 mana price tag. His abilities fit neither Imperial Painter nor Dragon Stompy and for other decks, he seems too slow.

[apple713]

With all these new legendary enchantment creatures with devotion, how do they interact with opalescence?

The conflict

opalescence would make them a creature with P/T = to their CMC
Since devotion is less than 5 they are not a creature.
If they are a creature because of opalescence would their P/T be set by opalescence or would they just use the P/T on the card?

[rufus]

...

Question is what deck would play him in Legacy at a 4 mana price tag. His abilities fit neither Imperial Painter nor Dragon Stompy and for other decks, he seems too slow.

I was looking for some kind of Replenish->(Pandemonium+Saproling Burst) thing, but it just doesn't seem to be there.



If they are a creature because of opalescence would their P/T be set by opalescence or would they just use the P/T on the card?

Self-setting abilities have the least priority, so they'll have the opalescence P/T, even when the devotion is high enough.

[ahg113]

With all these new legendary enchantment creatures with devotion, how do they interact with opalescence?

The conflict

opalescence would make them a creature with P/T = to their CMC
Since devotion is less than 5 they are not a creature.
If they are a creature because of opalescence would their P/T be set by opalescence or would they just use the P/T on the card?

I was thinking the same thing with Humility. If it's a creature with devotion satisfied, it'd become a dork 1/1?

[rufus]

I was thinking the same thing with Humility. If it's a creature with devotion satisfied, it'd become a dork 1/1?

The P/T on the card is a characteristic in effect before any continuous effects, so if it's a creature it becomes a 1/1 with no abilities. The 'uncreature' effect happens on layer 4, while humility's ability removal is on layer 6, so if you lose devotion, it will turn back into an enchantment with abilities.

[Amon Amarth]

Master of Waves. wat.

[HammafistRoob]

So they're "dumbing down" the game by printing a bunch of fucking yugioh cards. By that I mean cards with 9889 words of text on them.

EDIT-Oh, and God cards and Harpies.

[apple713]

I guess boros reckoner is gonna jump another $20 as red white becomes an incredibly strong deck in standard. Boros reckoner goes hand in hand with the red and white gods. He also fits the curve

Not to mention red white gets the best removal spell "chained to rocks" or some crap like that. It would basically be a swords with no drawbacks in that deck


On a seperate note Pyxis of Pandemonium seems to have an interesting interaction with a few cards in the legacy format, COUNTERBALANCE, Sensei's divining top, brainstorm, jace. Its nice to have something to mess with those decks and their library manipulation. Even if the second ability isnt ever used its interesting. You could easily figure out whats under your box by using a fetchland and searching your library. Maybe its something to consider for modern?

[rufus]

Master of Waves. wat.

They wanted more enablers for Force of Savegery. (Really, they wanted to confirm that token generation is part of :u:'s slice of the color pie.)

[apple713]

They wanted more enablers for Force of Savegery. (Really, they wanted to confirm that token generation is part of :u:'s slice of the color pie.)

seems like the game is turning into .... what slice of :u:'s color pie do the other four colors fall into?

[Amon Amarth]

seems like the game is turning into .... what slice of :u:'s color pie do the other four colors fall into?

It feels like it. That was one of the few things that Blue didn't seem like it did really well and this card looks playable in Standard. I really hope this is a cycle and not just another "blue does beatdown better than aggro colors" thing.

[BlackFlameAshura]

Really, they wanted to confirm that token generation is part of :u:'s slice of the color pie.

Didn't they already show recently that with Talrand? Now all we need is efficient token generation in black and we'll be set...oh wait, I tend to forget that zombie tokens are often times a thing...

[Koby]

Three thoughts after seeing Purphorus:

1. Turns small cheap dudes into shocks and larger cheaper dudes.
2. Young Pyromancer and Master of Waves BFF
3. Curse of the Swine is now a 2X fireball.

#game

[Offler]

Curse of Swine

1. I did not thought that such card will be ever printed.
2. Exiling should be ok, as cards like Pongify are effectively not killing, rather than transforming target. Regeneration, indestructibility or reanimation should not work in that case, if we are trying to follow the flavor.
3. Original "transforming" spells such as Ovinize, or Diminish were rendered completely ineffective due changes in layering rules, effects of Pongify or Rapid hybridization can be avoided by Indestructibility or reanimation.

New card represent something designed for recent game mechanics and following original idea and flavor. I just dont understand why it has X in its cost and possibility to destroy X targets.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

New card represent something designed for recent game mechanics and following original idea and flavor. I just dont understand why it has X in its cost and possibility to destroy X targets.
Because they want to keep the caster's creatures unharmed.
Still, maybe something like this...:

________________________________________
Curse of the Swines ............................ :2::u::u:

Enchantment - Aura

Enchant player.

When ~ etb, exile all creatures ench. player controls.
For each creature exiled this way, its contoller puts
a 2/2 green Boar creature token onto the bfd.

When ~ ltb, exile all 2/2 green Boar creature tokens
ench. player controls. For each creature token exiled
this way, its controller may return a creature card
from exile that ~ previously exiled.

"Soemoen should come with proper wording."
________________________________________


...would be better?
Note how Mask/Leyline prevents them from enchanting you, aka you got some preventive sphere/charisma thus men lead by you are unaffected by the curse, blah, blah.
Note how the eaten swine do not return the exiled creature, flavourful, flavourful...
Note how the 4 cmc resembles WoG and can't be played through Teeg.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It feels like it. That was one of the few things that Blue didn't seem like it did really well and this card looks playable in Standard. I really hope this is a cycle and not just another "blue does beatdown better than aggro colors" thing.

I like how counterspells in other colors is still a taboo though.

[Offler]

Really?

Lapse of Certainty
Avoid fate
Dash hopes
Mana tithe

On topic: I would re-word Curse of swine to have 1UU cost, and affect single creature. at all it will be almost as strong as Unmake. Back in Eventide people really liked Unmake...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Really?

Lapse of Certainty
Avoid fate
Dash hopes
Mana tithe

Compared to what non-blue effects you have in blue, these blue effects in non-blue suck.
At least Delver (as one of the best aggro creatures ever) shouldn't be blue, but should be red. Also, it shouldn't be flip card (in fact there should be none of them), instead it should be some "flip a coin" card like Frenetic Efreet.
Or just a 1/1 Bird Maiden with Delver's upkeep clause that upon fulfilling gains flying and +2/+1. We don't need the actual numbers printed on cards, we are already used to threshold, Goyfs and such.

EDIT:
Also on topic: I would rename the Swine curse to Gluttony and make it a 2UU enchantment reading "all creatures lose their abilities and become 2/2 green Boar creatures".

[Barook]

Also on topic: I would rename the Swine curse to Gluttony and make it a 2UU enchantment reading "all creatures lose their abilities and become 2/2 green Boar creatures".
So, blue Humility? I doubt they would print another rules clusterfuck like this.

[rufus]

EDIT:
Also on topic: I would rename the Swine curse to Gluttony and make it a 2UU enchantment reading "all creatures lose their abilities and become 2/2 green Boar creatures".

Humility-type effects are really annoying rules-wise, so they're probably avoiding them as much as they can.
(Ninjad)



...3. Curse of the Swine is now a 2X fireball.

Probably more like Alliance of Arms,Rise of the Hobgoblins,Martial Coup or Firecat Blitz.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yeah, I know how annoying (not only rules-wise) Humility is, the card was even mentioned in a "Top ten design mistakes of all times" MaRo (or whoever) wrote... :laugh:
That's the exact reason why I proposed the card. :tongue:

[Finn]

Curse of the swine may cross the lines in your eyes, but it still sucks ass in Legacy. Let wizards give blue this. White got direct damage a few years back, beast within is actually a decent removal spell for green that hits creatures. This is a lot, and I mean a lot worse than Psionic Blast, which caused a big uproar and sees zero play.

The Pyxis of Pandemonium on the other hand, looks very interesting to me. It loves Brainstorm, especially Jace Brainstorms, acts as a nifty disruption with Orcish Spy, and enables your finisher while keeping it out of your hand until you need it.

[Offler]

Curse of the Swine is quite good in EDH, as it gives possibility to permanently remove dangerous threats. It matters a lot even in German Highlander.

But its not the newest effect. Fade Away is long forgotten blue WG and also rarely sees play.

Only what surprises me is scale at which the spell works. Spells like Reality spasm were offering safety for only 1 turn, while combo threats still remain active on table.

But real strong countermagic... was not seen in blue for some time. The last gasp was Mindbreak trap or Cryptic command, but i hardly remember anything as good in blue...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

The Pyxis of Pandemonium on the other hand, looks very interesting to me. It loves Brainstorm, especially Jace Brainstorms, acts as a nifty disruption with Orcish Spy, and enables your finisher while keeping it out of your hand until you need it.
Sad that the Orcish Spy doesn't really work like I thought it works back in 1996. A one-mana fatesealing dude was pretty powerful in my first real deck, otoh, it was that more "first" than "real" deck with Flares and Craw Wurms. :smile: And then we even realized that similarly to his Librarian companion, this orc also has that last line of text that changes things drastically. :frown:

Question: Except for JTMS/Brainstorm, is there anything else (maybe not exactly Elemental Augury or Soldevi Excavations) that Pyxis may work with? Other than Orcish Spy.
Basically I ask if there some continuous effect that makes it possible to improve the top of library - ha! Sylvan Library! - so that we may first remove several bomb cards and then cheat them via Pyxis' second ability. It would be funny to put into play several overcosted bombs for the mere cost of seven mana. But then again if your JTMS/Sylvan Library/Orc... (um, nothing) is active for several turns AND simultaneously you have :7: available, then maybe you don't need Pyxis' "ultimate" to win...

An EDH card and kitchen table material, definitely. I like the design, it kinda resembles some good old stuff like Obelisk of Undoing, Feldon's Cane, Despotic Scepter... and Elvish Piper. Though some of those cards are more "old" than "good".

[Offler]

Though some of those cards are more "old" than "good".

That is subjective depending on format. Something that Type 2 players in our city refused to acknowledge. Then this forum introduced me into real EDH decks with Tier 1 generals... :)

edit:

As was mentioned before. "Nykthos, Shrine of Nyx" is not considered to be a good card, unless used in monocolor etc... When observing it from perspective of already built EDH deck, it is another combo piece.

[Koby]

Humility-type effects are really annoying rules-wise, so they're probably avoiding them as much as they can.
(Ninjad)


Probably more like Alliance of Arms,Rise of the Hobgoblins,Martial Coup or Firecat Blitz.

The difference between Curse and these is that the former is Standard legal and is actually pretty good and has synergy with existing token generators. Pointless in Legacy, sure.

[apple713]

Curse of the swine may cross the lines in your eyes, but it still sucks ass in Legacy. Let wizards give blue this. White got direct damage a few years back, beast within is actually a decent removal spell for green that hits creatures. This is a lot, and I mean a lot worse than Psionic Blast, which caused a big uproar and sees zero play.

The Pyxis of Pandemonium on the other hand, looks very interesting to me. It loves Brainstorm, especially Jace Brainstorms, acts as a nifty disruption with Orcish Spy, and enables your finisher while keeping it out of your hand until you need it.
If its second ability cost 4 instead of 7 it would be a plYed card in other formats, maybe even legacy.

[Barook]

If its second ability cost 4 instead of 7 it would be a plYed card in other formats, maybe even legacy.
I don't think we need even more crap to cheat Omniscience and Emrakul into play.

[FTW]

Three thoughts after seeing Purphorus:

1. Turns small cheap dudes into shocks and larger cheaper dudes.
2. Young Pyromancer and Master of Waves BFF
3. Curse of the Swine is now a 2X fireball.

#game

Seems OP in Norin the Wary EDH

[FTW]

If its second ability cost 4 instead of 7 it would be a plYed card in other formats, maybe even legacy.

That would be way too OP though. With Brainstorms and Ponders, it would be an uncounterable (essentially.. since you drop it earlier on turn 1 at 0 risk) Show and Tell that gave your opponent much less selection for hate (cannot just drop Confusion in the Ranks or Angel of Despair or Gilded Drake or Humility etc.. to foil. It would have to be your top card!).

Even at 7 mana, maybe playable in 12post to get around countermagic or if LD is keeping your off 10-15 mana.

[apple713]

That would be way too OP though. With Brainstorms and Ponders, it would be an uncounterable (essentially.. since you drop it earlier on turn 1 at 0 risk) Show and Tell that gave your opponent much less selection for hate (cannot just drop Confusion in the Ranks or Angel of Despair or Gilded Drake or Humility etc.. to foil. It would have to be your top card!).

Even at 7 mana, maybe playable in 12post to get around countermagic or if LD is keeping your off 10-15 mana.

yeah but its an artifact, which means its easily destroyed, and if it does get destroyed before you get to activate it then you lose those cards and decrease your likely hood of drawing them.

Yes it would be used to cheat stuff into play OBV but Modern doesnt really have things that can reliably manipulate the top cards of your library, so it should be fine there. In legacy is it really better than S&T? probably not since it requires set up

[iamajellydonut]

That would be way too OP though. With Brainstorms and Ponders, it would be an uncounterable (essentially.. since you drop it earlier on turn 1 at 0 risk) Show and Tell that gave your opponent much less selection for hate (cannot just drop Confusion in the Ranks or Angel of Despair or Gilded Drake or Humility etc.. to foil. It would have to be your top card!).

Even at 7 mana, maybe playable in 12post to get around countermagic or if LD is keeping your off 10-15 mana.

Pyxis is junk. "But uncounterable!" is a piss-poor excuse. It takes two turns to activate. It's still symmetrical and the the same manipulation one would use to arrange their own deck is available to everyone else and is currently the most played card in Legacy. On top of that, you make your win condition vulnerable to common removal and Stifle. Hell, even a well timed Flickerwisp can shit on its parade.

[FTW]

Pyxis is junk. "But uncounterable!" is a piss-poor excuse. It takes two turns to activate. It's still symmetrical and the the same manipulation one would use to arrange their own deck is available to everyone else and is currently the most played card in Legacy. On top of that, you make your win condition vulnerable to common removal and Stifle. Hell, even a well timed Flickerwisp can shit on its parade.

Not saying it will be broken, obviously. But if it cost 4 it's possible some SnT decks could make use of this as a plan B. That was my argument.

It comes down on turn 1. You don't have to exile anything immediately so nothing is vulnerable. You EOT exile top card, untap and then 4,T: to drop something. So functionally speaking, it is not really taking 2 turns to activate but the span between your opponent's End Step and your upkeep. Only vulnerable to instant-speed artifact hate/blink etc. And who would board in artifact hate against a Show and Tell deck? If they do, you're already winning. Any sorcery speed solution like Pithing Needle isn't a problem since you would just not bother to exile the card then and you go 1-for-1 with their hate card and cast SnT instead. Meh. Vialing in Revoker or Flickerwisp EOT would be annoying, but that's just one deck and you don't have to use the plan B against them.

It's a bigger mana commitment and set-up commitment so never going to be a plan A in Legacy. Clearly it would be slower than other options. But it allows you to play around the drawbacks to Show and Tell (vulnerability to mid-game Spell Pierce and REB, vulnerability to discard, the opponent being able to drop for free their hate card), which could prove to be useful sideboard tech in some matchups. Goblins, for example, Hail Mary hopes to swing the game by dropping Angel of Despair or Confusion in the Ranks and screwing up the SnT plan. Prison decks will drop Moat or Humility or whatever. An SnT deck chock full of countermagic can't do much against that if it does happen. But simply board into an artifact plan B could totally change that. The probability such a deck has that hate card in hand is fairly high. The probability it will be the top card exiled is very very small. Though other decks run library manipulation, SnT decks tend to run a lot more (Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, SDT) and YOU are in control of when the top card gets exiled, not the opponent, so it's harder for them to set up an answer (Brainstorm or Top in response is basically the only option, fewer options than if they could drop any card from their hand).

Many other decks hope to shred the SnT player's hand to get rid of SnT or the bomb. You can defend with countermagic, but if they have more discard you can lose. However, Hymns and Lilianas are pretty useless when you can drop a 1cc artifact that lets you combo off with an empty hand using just your top card. Again, potentially useful plan B tech.

However it costs 7 not 4 so it's total jank. Borderline playability in 12post, maybe, as a fringe inclusion.

[Malakai]

Theros:
Monstrosity -- Levelers
Bestow -- Licids + reverse Totem Armor
Devotion -- Chroma
Legends -- baby Kamigawa
Enchantments -- Remember Mirrodin and Scars of Mirrodin?
Heroic -- Why doesn't it trigger off your opponent's spells?

[FTW]

Heroic -- Why doesn't it trigger off your opponent's spells?

WotC seems to favour masturbating. See M14 slivers and new planeswalker/legend rules.

[Malakai]

The new Thoughtseize art makes me think they might like my plan of reprinting the dual lands with terrible, terrible art.

[Barook]

The new Thoughtseize art makes me think they might like my plan of reprinting the dual lands with terrible, terrible art.
The art for the MODO promo Duals has been pretty sweet (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/968) so far.

A shame that they can't be printed as promos since the change of the Reserve List.

[ahg113]

Curse of the swine may cross the lines in your eyes, but it still sucks ass in Legacy. Let wizards give blue this. White got direct damage a few years back, beast within is actually a decent removal spell for green that hits creatures. This is a lot, and I mean a lot worse than Psionic Blast, which caused a big uproar and sees zero play.

The Pyxis of Pandemonium on the other hand, looks very interesting to me. It loves Brainstorm, especially Jace Brainstorms, acts as a nifty disruption with Orcish Spy, and enables your finisher while keeping it out of your hand until you need it.

What is the white direct damage spell?

[MGB]

What is the white direct damage spell?

Sunlance

[ahg113]

Sunlance

Sunlance - Another bad example. Conditional creature only sorcery speed spell, in a block that was all about "color shifting". Sunlance did not create an equal offense to that of Swine.

Fade Away does not exile the creatures, and doesn't even force the creatures removal if the tax can be paid or alternative permanents can be sac'd.

Missed a red counterspell, Molten Influence, for the lulz.

[rufus]

...

Missed a red counterspell, Molten Influence, for the lulz.

Also Artifact Blast.

As for Pyxis, anything that costs 7 or more in Legacy pretty much has to be an immediate win to be worthwhile.

[FTW]

Hmm.. what if Pyxis was used just for its first ability? At the very least, it completely screws up the opponent trying to control Delver flips, Miracles, CB lock, hiding cards from discard with Brainstorm and just controlling the top 3 in general with cantrips. Not good enough to see play right now, but it's kind of funny hate vs blue decks in something like Welder MUD SB.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Really?

Lapse of Certainty
Avoid fate
Dash hopes
Mana tithe

On topic: I would re-word Curse of swine to have 1UU cost, and affect single creature. at all it will be almost as strong as Unmake. Back in Eventide people really liked Unmake...

Did you notice that all those cards 1) Are from Time Spiral block, and 2) Suck?

(Mana Tithe is okay actually.)

[Fatal]

I would rather say it can be sensei/brainstorm "filter" with (emrakul/other fattie) wincon in controls. I doesn't require mana until its done.

[TsumiBand]

Sunlance

How quickly we forget Righteous Blow and Shining Shoal... :(

there's a bunch of bad White damage spells but they involve redirection and/or the awful "attacking or blocking" phrase which neuters a ton of White spells into unplayability. It's probably for the best, as things like Celestial Flare would be too much stealing from the color the effect belongs to (Black in that case, obv) Kind of like exiling all the things and turning them into Boars? :(

[Nihil Credo]

Heroic -- Why doesn't it trigger off your opponent's spells?WotC seems to favour masturbating. See M14 slivers and new planeswalker/legend rules.

That struck me as a good question so I asked it: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/60200291712/why-doesnt-heroic-trigger-off-of-any-players-spells



nihilcredo asked: Why doesn't Heroic trigger off of any player's spells?

In design, they did. When the set got to development (and power concerns started getting addressed), they realized that they would have to cost for the opponent’s spells triggering it and it would make the cards look at lot worse. The point of heroic was about you building up so development changed it.
Note that, in general, it is design’s job to push boundaries and developments to then pull back when necessary.


Most of the +1/+1 counter-type effects don't change much in power level with the simpler design version, so that answer makes me think that there have to be several more cards like Akroan Crusader which actually become a lot better when you can't kill them without giving your opponent a token.

[Aggro_zombies]

That struck me as a good question so I asked it: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/60200291712/why-doesnt-heroic-trigger-off-of-any-players-spells

Most of the +1/+1 counter-type effects don't change much in power level with the simpler design version, so that answer makes me think that there have to be several more cards like Akroan Crusader which actually become a lot better when you can't kill them without giving your opponent a token.
In Limited, the +1/+1 counter guys would make burn spells worse as removal, particularly cheap burn spells. Burn already seems bad enough in a set with Bestow since they get a dude afterward, and Monstrosity makes it even worse since the creatures can grow out of burn range at instant speed. Combine that with red's weakness to enchantments (in an enchantment block) and you probably ended up with a Draft/Sealed format where red was by far the worse color - sort of like blue was in triple Zendikar.

[ahg113]

Combine that with red's weakness to enchantments (in an enchantment block) and you probably ended up with a Draft/Sealed format where red was by far the worse color - sort of like blue was in triple Zendikar.

I didn't play that draft season, but I'll take your word for it. Triple Zendikar is probably my new favorite format.

[Aggro_zombies]

I didn't play that draft season, but I'll take your word for it. Triple Zendikar is probably my new favorite format.
Why, because blue was awful in it, or because you enjoy playing eighteen lands in your mono-two-drop aggro decks?

[ahg113]

Either or, possibly both.

[Gheizen64]

Guys i just realized that Chained to the rocks answer emrakul off SnT for 0 mana, and in some decks it make a real good impression of a sword (beside being wastelandable, but i seriously think it's not that bad). But seriously, answering all SnT creatures while being SnT-able itself and maindeckable make for a card that's better than i thought and make SnT slightly worse thanks god. Too bad Boros have got no real cards outside of the charm maybe.

[apple713]

Did you notice that all those cards 1) Are from Time Spiral block, and 2) Suck?

(Mana Tithe is okay actually.)

mana tithe is soooooo far from OK, its on the opposite side of the scale with bad.... Have you ever played force spike? When was the last time force spike even saw a top 8?

[Barook]

Guys i just realized that Chained to the rocks answer emrakul off SnT for 0 mana, and in some decks it make a real good impression of a sword (beside being wastelandable, but i seriously think it's not that bad). But seriously, answering all SnT creatures while being SnT-able itself and maindeckable make for a card that's better than i thought and make SnT slightly worse thanks god. Too bad Boros have got no real cards outside of the charm maybe.
As long as you fetch a basic Mountain in other matches to make your Chains wasteland-proof, it might work, especially since it gets around the drawback of StP and PtE in aggressive decks (except those are dead in the water anyway).

If you run Zoo, it sounds hilarious to run MD Chains alongside KotR + Karakas since pretty much every S&T they play is going to punish them.


mana tithe is soooooo far from OK, its on the opposite side of the scale with bad.... Have you ever played force spike? When was the last time force spike even saw a top 8?
Maybe it would see play if they made a white Daze.

[Lord Seth]

Did you notice that all those cards 1) Are from Time Spiral block, and 2) Suck?

(Mana Tithe is okay actually.)
Lapse of Certainty was from Conflux.

[FTW]

Maybe it would see play if they made a white Daze.

OMGOMGsobad. Doesn't pitch to FoW, can't fetch a basic T1 and use mana on Delver/cantrip/Stifle and still represent white Daze.

[Barook]

OMGOMGsobad. Doesn't pitch to FoW, can't fetch a basic T1 and use mana on Delver/cantrip/Stifle and still represent white Daze.
You could jam down a Plains into AEther Vial or Mom, though.

[apple713]

As long as you fetch a basic Mountain in other matches to make your Chains wasteland-proof, it might work, especially since it gets around the drawback of StP and PtE in aggressive decks (except those are dead in the water anyway).

If you run Zoo, it sounds hilarious to run MD Chains alongside KotR + Karakas since pretty much every S&T they play is going to punish them.


Maybe it would see play if they made a white Daze.


it most certainly wouldnt because the white daze would see play and mana tithe would be inferior at that point. With such limited options people would easily play around those effects and they would become worthless cards to include.

[rufus]

You could jam down a Plains into AEther Vial or Mom, though.

Plains into Land Tax & White Daze would be stupid.

[apple713]

Plains into Land Tax & White Daze would be stupid.

ok but now what? you have too many cards in your hand and u can fill it with more lands.....

[rufus]

ok but now what? you have too many cards in your hand and u can fill it with more lands.....

Come to think of it, Tundra->Land Tax+Daze is probably a little derpy too.
If you have fast mana or discard cards like Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox or Gamble you can use up all three cards pretty easily.
Alternatively you can pull two basic lands, then play a land and a 1 drop.

[TsumiBand]

ok but now what? you have too many cards in your hand and u can fill it with more lands.....

http://i.imgflip.com/3e71b.jpg

Someone somewhere will think of something to do with all those cards.

[apple713]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145298&d=1378267497

This guy seems really good... Not liliana good but good. Although he visually looks like he should be Black Red

he can protect him self with creatures. His creatures have haste if you need to be offensive. He ramps the turn he comes into play so you dont have to miss dropping an immediate threat. His ultimate will probably win the game for you, unless you have terrible luck or play with a bunch of small crappy creatures.

[TsumiBand]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145298&d=1378267497

This guy seems really good... Not liliana good but good. Although he visually looks like he should be Black Red

he can protect him self with creatures. His creatures have haste if you need to be offensive. He ramps the turn he comes into play so you dont have to miss dropping an immediate threat. His ultimate will probably win the game for you, unless you have terrible luck or play with a bunch of small crappy creatures.

That guy is cool as shit.

[Norm]

Yeah he's nuts, definitely buying a set right now. I like how Jason Chan did the art too...fitting.

[Aggro_zombies]

This guy seems really good... Not liliana good but good. Although he visually looks like he should be Black Red

he can protect him self with creatures. His creatures have haste if you need to be offensive. He ramps the turn he comes into play so you dont have to miss dropping an immediate threat. His ultimate will probably win the game for you, unless you have terrible luck or play with a bunch of small crappy creatures.
The problem is that he and Domri both go in similar, creature-heavy green decks. Xenagos can go in decks with fewer creatures, but then his +1 is worse right out of the gates. He also doesn't really compare favorably to the DFC Garruk in those decks; both make 2/2s for zero loyalty, but Garruk can murder a guy and then flip into another reasonable planeswalker.

If this guy's first two abilities were switched, he'd be bonkers. As it is...eh.

[Antonius]

The problem is that he and Domri both go in similar, creature-heavy green decks. Xenagos can go in decks with fewer creatures, but then his +1 is worse right out of the gates. He also doesn't really compare favorably to the DFC Garruk in those decks; both make 2/2s for zero loyalty, but Garruk can murder a guy and then flip into another reasonable planeswalker.

If this guy's first two abilities were switched, he'd be bonkers. As it is...eh.

young pyromancer is rolling balls right now.

[apple713]

young pyromancer is rolling balls right now.

wtf does this even mean?

[Aggro_zombies]

young pyromancer is rolling balls right now.
True. Young Pyromancer is a thing. But I'm not sure what Xenagos does for such a deck, besides making more tokens and buckets of mana. One of the best colors to pair with YP is blue since you can chain cantrips into each other to make dudes and find more YPs, and Xenagos doesn't exactly help with that plan. Maybe in a Nic Fit deck? But I don't know what he's supposed to do there, either.

[Koby]

Guys i just realized that Chained to the rocks answer emrakul off SnT for 0 mana, and in some decks it make a real good impression of a sword (beside being wastelandable, but i seriously think it's not that bad). But seriously, answering all SnT creatures while being SnT-able itself and maindeckable make for a card that's better than i thought and make SnT slightly worse thanks god. Too bad Boros have got no real cards outside of the charm maybe.

Are we still complaining about S&T on turn 1 for Emrakul enough to play a shitty StP variant instead of O-Ring? Asking for a friend who hasn't played in 12 months.

Three thoughts about Xenagos:

1. Is WotC R&D just spoon feeding us synergies that all have mythic rarity?
2. Hasty horse people. That's a thing you can do now.
3. Cue the Griselbannedwagon for another way to cheat him into play?

That is all for tonite.

[rufus]

So here's a pattern that I really don't get:
White bestow cards:
Celestial Archon 3ww / 5ww
Observant Alseid 2w / 4w
- Bestow is cc + 2
Blue Bestow cards:
Nimbus Naiad 2u/4u
Thassa's Emissary 3u/5u
- Bestow is cc + 2
Black Bestow Cards:
Cavern Lampard 3b/5b
Nighthowler 1bb/2bb
- Bestow is cc +1 or cc+2
Green Bestow Cards:
Leafcrown Dryad 1g/3g
- Bestow is cc + 2
Red Bestow Cards:
Spearpoint Oread 2r/5r
Purphoros's Emissary 3r/6r
- Bestow is cc + 3

Not that any of those look playable, but I guess you have to pay extra for the red paint job.

[Aggro_zombies]

Not that any of those look playable, but I guess you have to pay extra for the red paint job.
It's coz red goes da fastest.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So far, here's what I've decided about Theros: Bad. Thanks for the Thoughtseize reprint, I'm buying none. 89 cards in and all I get is a crappy StP and a (FINALLY) reprint of a staple. Oh, and another sub-par elspeth. Groovy. I need moar goodness. RG Jank? No thanks.

-ABC

[Barook]

Xenagos seems pretty cool, but in Legacy, he has to put up with being compared to Garruk Relentless.

GR can kill a critter and switch to utility. Xenagos' tokens have haste, though, which can be pretty relevant against enemy walkers and after sweepers. Which decks can make good use of the mana boost? Doing nothing for 3 turns doesn't seem to hot before you can ultimate.


It's coz red goes da fastest.
Now I want a hasty Orc with the flavor text "Red goes fasta!".

Edit:
http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/ths/obasdfkjw8324lz/Owi4Zh3cJnx_EN_LR.jpg

Bolt-proof and immune to both AD and StP. Since he has Haste, he can also kill a Liliana or a Jace before they can do anything to it, making it very hard to kill.

Not sure if it has a place in any Legacy accel deck since its Monstrous ability quite frankly sucks.

[Fatal]

Looks nice but 5cmc is really high for example you already dead vs any combo, and vs fair deck you face bigger fattie in mulitple with protection (for 1G or 1GW guess which) or control can:
counter it hardcasting FoW (extreme example but show how slow it is) or just use Terminus..

Take Thrun in example - mana cheaper - same bolt/AD/StP proof, more over even dismember isn't a problem, can't be countered which is important when you tapping 4 mana for it, and can regenerate after Deed/Supreme Verdict which dragon can't.

On advantage - flying and haste both very nice but too slow, I can't see its place in legacy.

[Gheizen64]

It's as good as 5 -mana cost dragon can get. Pro-white make it unswordable and immune to all D&T tricks (flicker, mangara etc). Haste and flying mean this kill a Jace the turn it come down and mass removal still eat an attack. 5 mana is the far top end of the curve, especially for red, but it isn't that bad. I think it's as good as it get for dragon in legacy. Not playable in mono-red sadly, more in decks like nice-fit.

The new walker seems extremely good at first glance, but the more i think about it, the more i don't like it. The +1 is almost never relevant honestly. At 4 most legacy deck curve out. The 0 is good but the other abilities basically do little next to nothing. Liliana's good because it's often edict + gain 2-3 life and that already is decently playable at 3 mana. And often is even better than that. This is basically a "shit a 2/2 every turn" and nothing else. Unless you can play it in some deck that can use loads of mana. In standard there will be monstrous for that i guess, but legacy don't care. Swords and equipments maybe.

[Barook]

The haste thing potentially makes Xenagos relevant if you compare him to Garruk since he's a full turn ahead in damage output:

Garruk vs Xenagos damage output:

T0: 0 vs 2
T1: 2 vs 6
T2: 6 vs 12
T3: 12 vs 20

He can put alot more pressure on the opponent, especially against sweepers. However, he has to compete with Bloodbraid Elf at the :2::r::g: slot. On the upside, you can run a GSZ toolbox with him, unlike BBR. Might be cool for Punishing Jund, where you could put the extra mana to good use, but who knows.

[Gheizen64]

The haste thing potentially makes Xenagos relevant if you compare him to Garruk since he's a full turn ahead in damage output:

Garruk vs Xenagos damage output:

T0: 0 vs 2
T1: 2 vs 6
T2: 6 vs 12
T3: 12 vs 20

He can put alot more pressure on the opponent, especially against sweepers. However, he has to compete with Bloodbraid Elf at the :2::r::g: slot. On the upside, you can run a GSZ toolbox with him, unlike BBR. Might be cool for Punishing Jund, where you could put the extra mana to good use, but who knows.

Mmh if you compare it to bloodbraid it's good indeed. I mean, bloodbraid will often flip an effect that's worse than a 2/2 haste (discard for example). If this live 3 turn is better than bloodbraid, even if less versatile because it don't draw you anything. Too bad the +1 really do nothing in this format (or is there somewhere a playable mana sink?). I'll try this in nice fit for sure. Playing a T2 this can be pretty sick against tempo deck (he's not outside bolt range though). Playing the +0 3 turns in a row and then having 10 mana on some turn can be pretty nice i guess. The new dragon goes along with it pretty well i guess.

[Barook]

Mmh if you compare it to bloodbraid it's good indeed. I mean, bloodbraid will often flip an effect that's worse than a 2/2 haste (discard for example). If this live 3 turn is better than bloodbraid, even if less versatile because it don't draw you anything. Too bad the +1 really do nothing in this format (or is there somewhere a playable mana sink?). I'll try this in nice fit for sure. Playing a T2 this can be pretty sick against tempo deck (he's not outside bolt range though). Playing the +0 3 turns in a row and then having 10 mana on some turn can be pretty nice i guess. The new dragon goes along with it pretty well i guess.
I don't think that the Dragon fits into Jund. And 10 mana sounds excessive.

Scavenging Ooze, Punishing Fire and GSZ are all potential mana sinks. A Huntmaster of the Fells/Xenagos split with a GSZ package might be interesting.

Imagine curving like this (against fair decks):

T1 DRS, T2 Liliana, T3 Xenagos - sounds pretty backbreaking to me since Xenogas requires way different solutions than a BBR which can be easily burned (PF/Lavamancer), StP'ed or traded by a 2/X critter.

GSZ for Dryad Arbor makes an early Liliana much more likely as long as you can muster the double black from duals.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

mana tithe is soooooo far from OK, its on the opposite side of the scale with bad.... Have you ever played force spike? When was the last time force spike even saw a top 8?

Yeah I played it for a while in MUC. This was a few years back though. It's also pretty decent in Cube.

I don't really mean in Legacy in particular, although I messed around with running it next to Mental Misstep in Zoo when both were legal. I mean it's the only one of those that's not just entirely a piece of trash card and playable in any format. Non-white "counters" barely deserve the name really.

[FTW]

That dragon seems like it fits really smoothly into Dragon Stompy at the top of the curve. Immune to most played removal, I'd much rather see it over Rakdos Pit Dragon or Gathan Raiders, which both get pretty conditional on you maintaining Hellbent and die to Bolt and StP. While the Monstrosity is tough to activate, seems good in a deck with 16 lock pieces.

Yeah, in terms of racing haste is huge. Xenagos math is like curving out with multiple Goblin Guides where Garruk just makes Grizzly Bears. I wonder if his +1 will be abusable in a Modern ramp deck with Primeval Titans and Summoning Traps. Both Xenagos' ultimate and Summoning Trap would be sick for cheating out Titans and Eldrazi. Or you could spam tokens (to up his +1) and ramp into Warp World!!!

[rufus]

That dragon seems like it fits really smoothly into Dragon Stompy at the top of the curve. Immune to most played removal, I'd much rather see it over Rakdos Pit Dragon or Gathan Raiders, which both get pretty conditional on you maintaining Hellbent and die to Bolt and StP. While the Monstrosity is tough to activate, seems good in a deck with 16 lock pieces.


Gathan Raders costs :3: and a card.
Radkos Pit Dragon costs :2::r::r:.
If you wanted to slot a :3::r::r: card into the deck, it's got to match up with Arc-Slogger.

[apple713]

Gathan Raders costs :3: and a card.
Radkos Pit Dragon costs :2::r::r:.
If you wanted to slot a :3::r::r: card into the deck, it's got match up with Arc-Slogger.

I've always liked Inferno titan in dragon stompy type decks. An inferno titan that doesnt get swords clears the board and wins very fast. Wipes most Aggro decks and is bigger than goyf.

[apple713]

Aww they completly missed the boat with this planeswalker....like not even close to playable.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145387&d=1378353672

I was most looking forward to this card because of his spoiled artwork. Such a letdown. It's not terrible for standard....

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145390&d=1378354274

[ahg113]

I'm a fan of Tymaret, the Murder King. Aggressive utility bear, recur, makes use of tokens like a boss. Young Grixis, Team Italia, Zombardment. None of them are lighting the meta on fire, but he slots in perfect with all of these decks. Slightly mana intensive, but doable.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145388&d=1378353740

[FTW]

Aww they completly missed the boat with this planeswalker....like not even close to playable.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145387&d=1378353672

I was most looking forward to this card because of his spoiled artwork. Such a letdown. It's not terrible for standard....

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145390&d=1378354274

I can't believe I'm saying this, but these cards actually make me wish Thragtusk wasn't rotating.

Going +2, -5: turn 4 Thragtusk.... seems good while midrange opponent is Farseeking and Thinking Twice

Dropping Erebos on turn 4 also makes that Thragtusk+Angel hand look like a huge blank for stabilizing against aggro.

[Gheizen64]

Thymaret is not so bad for Zombardment. Offer you a sacrifice outlet from the graveyard while being a zombie himself. Then we got cryoclasm for mountains, a deathmark for black creatures but instant, and an exile target white permanent for 1W. Not too bad. The UB walker is pretty meh.

[ahg113]

The green fight card makes more sense that the cycle is complete. White got the best spell I reckon, exile for 2. Blue already counters, red is a funny LD spell, black creature removal and green creature "removal".

[Aggro_zombies]

Huh. The black god is a letdown, but then what hasn't been this set? Actually, that UB planeswalker is the first truly interesting card they've spoiled. I will have to pick one up.

[Rizso]

Extort just got so much better with the erebos!

As for the planeswalker the cost makes him really hard to evalueate. The cost is cheap enought that it can come down early and the board isnt so large for either side. Most deck will probly not be able to kill it when it comes down on turn 3. And even if they could they used at least 5 damage to get it down, 1/4 of your life. Probly not legacy playable but free counters, low cc removal and less threat density with low cc curves makes it stick easier.

[Darkenslight]

Extort just got so much better with the erebos!

As for the planeswalker the cost makes him really hard to evalueate. The cost is cheap enought that it can come down early and the board isnt so large for either side. Most deck will probly not be able to kill it when it comes down on turn 3. And even if they could they used at least 5 damage to get it down, 1/4 of your life. Probly not legacy playable but free counters, low cc removal and less threat density with low cc curves makes it stick easier.

Actually, I think the Nightmare Weaver is going to be a huge bomb for Esper Control. The key is his second ability, I love me some free Goyf/Mongoose action against UGx Delver, can hose control and may even have game against other decks.

[Tylert]

Extort just got so much better with the erebos!

As for the planeswalker the cost makes him really hard to evalueate. The cost is cheap enought that it can come down early and the board isnt so large for either side. Most deck will probly not be able to kill it when it comes down on turn 3. And even if they could they used at least 5 damage to get it down, 1/4 of your life. Probly not legacy playable but free counters, low cc removal and less threat density with low cc curves makes it stick easier.

I like how the black god can fuel with gas an Extort strategy. YOu can even play wrath as it is indestructible and still be ahead :)
It's a nice card.

[Aggro_zombies]

I like how the black god can fuel with gas an Extort strategy. YOu can even play wrath as it is indestructible and still be ahead :)
It's a nice card.
Well, your god likely reverts to being an enchantment if you Wrath, but Extort + Erebos seems like an EDH thing, mostly. I'm not sure how it'll compete in Standard with Smashy Gruul Aggro packing two planeswalkers and all the undercosted RG aggro dorks (Mystic, Tusker, various bloodrush guys, the new mythic dragon, Madcap Skills, etc.)

[Morte]

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDYNNF460Qn5kfw&w=210&h=210&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash4%2F1170719_10201869352873654_2095802525_n.jpg

Fleecemane Lion CC = GW
Creature — Cat Rare
3{G}{W}: Monstrosity 1. (If this creature isn't monstrous, put a +1/+1 counter on it and it becomes monstrous.)
As long as Fleecemane Lion is monstrous, it has hexproof and indestructible.
3/3

[Kayradis]

So, a rare Watchwolf with a possibility to get better late game?

Not a bad concept!

[HPB_Eggo]

I'm going to agree with the UB guy not being as bad as he first looks...

1) Destroys Brainstorm, Top, and whatnot. Less-so Top than any other, but if your opponent plays a BS and doesn't shuffle you can hit some valuable cards with this.

2) On an empty board against a deck with creatures in it, you have a solid chance of hitting a creature you're okay with putting out before your opponent can get rid of him. More importantly, his second ability is better in Legacy than any other format because of how low the curve is.

3) It's still relevant against combo. If you're in a spot where you're safe and can play out this guy, they have to start moving a bit faster to avoid his ultimate. And, of course, there's always the possibility that you hit an essential piece of the combo with his +2 and randomly beat them out of nowhere, and - as stated above - it can really mess with cantrips, particularly BS but also Ponder.

Probably won't make a huge splash, but I think he's definitely playable.

[dave8]

I'm going to agree with the UB guy not being as bad as he first looks...

1) Destroys Brainstorm, Top, and whatnot. Less-so Top than any other, but if your opponent plays a BS and doesn't shuffle you can hit some valuable cards with this.

2) On an empty board against a deck with creatures in it, you have a solid chance of hitting a creature you're okay with putting out before your opponent can get rid of him. More importantly, his second ability is better in Legacy than any other format because of how low the curve is.

3) It's still relevant against combo. If you're in a spot where you're safe and can play out this guy, they have to start moving a bit faster to avoid his ultimate. And, of course, there's always the possibility that you hit an essential piece of the combo with his +2 and randomly beat them out of nowhere, and - as stated above - it can really mess with cantrips, particularly BS but also Ponder.

Probably won't make a huge splash, but I think he's definitely playable.

His main problem is that he is UB.
So he competes with JTMS and LOTV.

[FTW]

His main problem is that he is UB.
So he competes with JTMS and LOTV.

He serves a very different function though. Jace buries the opponent in card advantage/quality, Liliana buries the opponent in card advantage/board advantage, Tezzeret buries the opponent in card advantage/board advantage, and this guy messes up Brainstorms and casts Goyfs.

[rufus]

1) Destroys Brainstorm, Top, and whatnot. Less-so Top than any other, but if your opponent plays a BS and doesn't shuffle you can hit some valuable cards with this.
...

I read that and thought 'it will suck if you use the ability and your opponent brainstorms in response."

[catmint]

the +2 ability makes bs and sd.top much stronger. Might mess up a ponder or preordain. Just accept there is no legacy walker in the set. :-/

[Offler]

Ashiok basically recycled Grimoire Thief, and got combined with Chainer, Demetia master... In a very twisted way...

Tibalt, the Fiend-blooded seems better to me. Its very chaotic, but some reanimators I know like him a lot = because he allows creatures to be in graveyard...

Ashion is definitely the strangest PW i have seen. I just ask myself if its worth play him...

[Megadeus]

He serves a very different function though. Jace buries the opponent in card advantage/quality, Liliana buries the opponent in card advantage/board advantage, Tezzeret buries the opponent in card advantage/board advantage, and this guy mills your opponent while not affecting the board and while you die

Fixed that for you

[apple713]

the +2 ability makes bs and sd.top much stronger. Might mess up a ponder or preordain. Just accept there is no legacy walker in the set. :-/


correct he makes SDT and BS stronger cause he lets them get rid of the bad cards they dont want. The only somewhat reasonable walker is the RG one with CMC 4. If he costed 3 he'd be great for legacy.


Fixed that for you

thanks, you fixed it so i didnt have to :)

[Gheizen64]

Imho it's slightly underrrated. I mean, it does nothing T1, but you could easily be playing a Goyf to protect him T2.

[FTW]

Fixed that for you

LOL, That's pretty much what I was getting at. Do you want to bury the opponent in overwhelming advantage, or durdle around messing up top cards and hoping to cast 1cc and 2cc creatures for 1UB?

[Star|Scream]

LOL, That's pretty much what I was getting at. Do you want to bury the opponent in overwhelming advantage, or durdle around messing up top cards and hoping to cast 1cc and 2cc creatures for 1UB?

Durdle.


I think people just like to hype up new cards--especially planeswalkers--so if the card blows up in 3 months they can link back to their post.

[Megadeus]

I enjoy durdling. This is a card I would play, but on a realistically competitive level it' pretty bad

[Barook]

I think people just like to hype up new cards--especially planeswalkers--so if the card blows up in 3 months they can link back to their post.
I wonder why nobody vindicated himself yet for Chandra, Pyromaster, just because she shat on a deck (Grixis Delver) that also gets even more shat on by Jitte this weekend.

[Lemnear]

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDYNNF460Qn5kfw&w=210&h=210&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash4%2F1170719_10201869352873654_2095802525_n.jpg

Fleecemane Lion CC = GW
Creature — Cat Rare
3{G}{W}: Monstrosity 1. (If this creature isn't monstrous, put a +1/+1 counter on it and it becomes monstrous.)
As long as Fleecemane Lion is monstrous, it has hexproof and indestructible.
3/3

Big Zoo/Maverick powerhouse! I knew those decks needed more Gaea's Cradle ...

[Koby]

For the same price of Gaddock Teeg and none of the usefulness against Control. Neat.

[Tammit67]

Big Zoo/Maverick powerhouse! I knew those decks needed more Gaea's Cradle ...

I dunno if powerhouse is the right word. Has 0 utility for Maverick and is quite a bit smaller than other 'top end' creatures I'd see out of big zoo

[Star|Scream]

I dunno if powerhouse is the right word. Has 0 utility for Maverick and is quite a bit smaller than other 'top end' creatures I'd see out of big zoo

Hook, line, and sinker.

[Tao]

Fleecemane Lion is not strong enough for Legacy but I do like the card a lot in general. Very good design.

The UB Planeswalker is not playable in Legacy I think. If you can protect him, you could protect Liliana, too. And her Ultimate wins too, but a turn faster. And if there is a creature then Lili is obviously better. The biggest problem I think is that he depends on the opponent's deck and that creatures are often best in a certain deck. Not Shaman and Tarmogoyf but what would you do in your UB Control deck if you mill stuff like Stoneforge Mystic, Lord of Atlantis, Goblin Warchief, Argothian Enchantress, Magus of the Moon, Imperial Recruiter or a Delver?

[TsumiBand]

Searing Spear 2.0...

http://ow.ly/i/33XaN

tl;dc

Lightning Strike :1::r:
Instant

-THIS- deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

Standard seasons without something comparable to either Bolt or Incinerate just sort of hurt me in the feels - how am I supposed to just show up to a random FNM with a little kid guys and burn deck if the burn all sucks? So I guess at least, this means I don't have to start cutting myself again.

Most of the burn in Standard is real bad though. I hate burn that is multicolor unless it is supergood like Lightning Helix. They need to make more of those things, I think then I would hate multicolor burn less. If they'd put Bolt and Duress on the same card I'd shit a cat.

[apple713]

From a purely casual standpoint (EDH), i've been waiting for this card for a long long time!

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145427&d=1378424000

[Mewens]

what, Seedborn Muse and Awakening and Intruder Alarm and Alchemist's Refuge and Aluren and Yeva, Nature's Herald weren't enough for you?

[apple713]

what, Seedborn Muse and Awakening and Intruder Alarm and Alchemist's Refuge and Aluren and Yeva, Nature's Herald weren't enough for you?

I wanted them on 1 card... and its a creature so it can be reanimated easily if it dies.

[TsumiBand]

From a purely casual standpoint (EDH), i've been waiting for this card for a long long time!

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145427&d=1378424000

I was about to post "I cannot believe this isn't Legendary" but then I was like "Oh wait but EDH" and then I was all "WOAH wait, did they really leave the Legendary supertype off, because EDH? They wouldn't do that" and then I was like "oh but they just did that whole thing where they went out of their way to make sure Extort doesn't fuck with color identity, because EDH, so maybe they would". Super weird. I'm not sure if they did that on purpose or not.

[apple713]

I was about to post "I cannot believe this isn't Legendary" but then I was like "Oh wait but EDH" and then I was all "WOAH wait, did they really leave the Legendary supertype off, because EDH? They wouldn't do that" and then I was like "oh but they just did that whole thing where they went out of their way to make sure Extort doesn't fuck with color identity, because EDH, so maybe they would". Super weird. I'm not sure if they did that on purpose or not.

legendary creatures usually bring something unique to the table, this creature doesnt do that, it just combines other non legendary creature abilities. If this creature itself had flash and it was legendary, it would be a great general IMO. Probably one of my favs.

[FieryBalrog]

legendary creatures usually bring something unique to the table, this creature doesnt do that, it just combines other non legendary creature abilities. If this creature itself had flash and it was legendary, it would be a great general IMO. Probably one of my favs.

No shit, it would be everyone's favorite, people usually like stupidly powerful cards. It would be the Herp to Prime Speaker Zegana's Derp.

[apple713]

scry lands just revealed.... incredibly dissapointed to be pulling CIPT lands as rares....

[rufus]

scry lands just revealed.... incredibly dissapointed to be pulling CIPT lands as rares....

They'd be pretty good 1-ofs if they were fetchable.

Edith: Phrophet + Puca's Mischief in an Embargo deck?

[Polish Tamales]

Anyone's opinions about Thassa and how Caleb's article outlined it's uses in Legacy (Miracle Top)?

[rufus]

Anyone's opinions about Thassa and how Caleb's article outlined it's uses in Legacy (Miracle Top)?

If Scry 1 were a compelling ability, then Sylvan Library would see more play. Not good as a creature, and the activated ability isn't very strong. I don't expect Thassa to see any competitive legacy play.

Also, if you're going to refer to something, link to it. http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/spoiler-spotlight-thassa-god-of-the-sea/

[alphastryk]

Anyone's opinions about Thassa and how Caleb's article outlined it's uses in Legacy (Miracle Top)?

Significantly worse than existing options.

[Koby]

That's the reason we lost Buddy lands in M14? So they could print Invasion tap lands with Scry?

Color me jaded.

Also, I realize most of the set is Limited/Standard geared with a few bones for Eternal (like Thoughtsieze reprint). That's the perspective I'm commenting about. I don't see many splashes made in Legacy from this set.

Scry lands. I'm going to cry when I open them in a booster. I imagine so will a new player.

[TsumiBand]

So typically, I'd definitely rather scry 1 than gain one life (Akoum Refuge and its friends), but I'm not positive that justifies the bump up to rare? Considering Gates were just printed at common. Lame.

[Mewens]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145453&d=1378441469

Reaper of the Wilds 2BG
Creature — Gorgon
Whenever another creature dies, scry 1. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card on the bottom of your library.)
{B}: Reaper of the Wild gains deathtouch until end of turn.
1{G}: Reaper of the Wild gains hexproof until end of turn.
4/5

I really want to love this card. It feels like it does too much for 4 mana, but then I remember that Tarmogoyf and Terminus are things.
Is there a grindy BG deck that could use a card like this?

[Nihil Credo]

Reaper of the Wilds 2BG
Creature — Gorgon
Whenever another creature dies, scry 1. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card on the bottom of your library.)
{B}: Reaper of the Wild gains deathtouch until end of turn.
1{G}: Reaper of the Wild gains hexproof until end of turn.
4/5Man, talk about throwing-dart design. What does hexproof have to do with the rest of the card? Why deathtouch on a 4/5? If it's to suicide it against a monster or something, why not let it trigger off its own death?

[Barook]

Scry lands. I'm going to cry when I open them in a booster. I imagine so will a new player.
Those lands should be uncommon. Making them rare is just insulting.

Reaper of the Wilds sucks.

I start to hope Theros sells like crap, just to get them realize that they should stop printing so much jank.

[apple713]

So typically, I'd definitely rather scry 1 than gain one life (Akoum Refuge and its friends), but I'm not positive that justifies the bump up to rare? Considering Gates were just printed at common. Lame.

The worst part is that they decided to print this shit immediately after ravinca block...with shock lands. any new player will make an immediate comparison and be like wtf this game blows.



Man, talk about throwing-dart design. What does hexproof have to do with the rest of the card? Why deathtouch on a 4/5? If it's to suicide it against a monster or something, why not let it trigger off its own death?

deathtouch is an ability a gorgon would have in the mythical world, similar to medusa and her petrifying gaze

[Mewens]

Reaper of the Wilds sucks.

I know you're right, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Barook]

The worst part is that they decided to print this shit immediately after ravinca block...with shock lands. any new player will make an immediate comparison and be like wtf this game blows.
Considering the target group they're aiming for now, those new players have the attention span of a gold fish.

In the end, those new players are what the media call the "Call of Duty" audience, hence dumbing the game down.

[Amon Amarth]

Those duals, ew. And spreading them out feels bad but then so would having all ten in the first set too. At rare no me gusta. But it's cheaper/easier to acquire lands for Standard, I guess?

[Valtrix]

We've all grown accustomed to powerful "dual" lands, but good "dual" lands are a luxury, not a given. Wizards is allowed to vary the strength of these lands for future standard and/or limited environments. I do agree this disparity can be confusing for new players, but I think most players would just ask their more experienced friends why this disparity might exist.

[Barook]

but I think most players would just ask their more experienced friends why this disparity might exist.
Wizards want to make more money with shitty dual land variants?

[Dice_Box]

Those lands... I mean if they want us Eternal format players to buy packs, Thoughtseize was a great idea. Now after seeing that my Rare slot might have one of those POS in it.... Yea I do not think that I will be an Eternal player that is opening packs for my cards, I will just go and buy the ones I want and stick to opening M14 when I win on a Tuesday night.

[Lemnear]

- Because WotC call themselves creative and innovative taking existing designs and just make a minor change.

- Because Reprints don't sell packs unless they are chase rares from older Sets and the Expansion/Core set they are reprinted in sucks otherwise

[Barook]

Those lands... I mean if they want us Eternal format players to buy packs, Thoughtseize was a great idea. Now after seeing that my Rare slot might have one of those POS in it.... Yea I do not think that I will be an Eternal player that is opening packs for my cards, I will just go and buy the ones I want and stick to opening M14 when I win on a Tuesday night.
Most sets aren't worth opening packs for as Eternal player, unless they contain enough value to trade for eternal staples. Not every set can be Future Sight.

[Megadeus]

Now I cant even cast a T1 Thoughtseize with my Theros Dual Lands! Just kidding standard is so fucking shitty and slow that casting TS on T1 is probably wrong anyway...

[Dice_Box]

I TS your shiny new Satyr Hedonist on turn two to slow you down...

My point was that the Duals feel uncommon. Maybe I am spoilt by the pool of options I have in the format I play, but those lands, they do not FEEL rare at all.

[Aggro_zombies]

The worst part is that they decided to print this shit immediately after ravinca block...with shock lands. any new player will make an immediate comparison and be like wtf this game blows.
Never mind shocklands. Compare these to Guildgates. Apparently adding scry 1 also adds two rarity levels to a card.


deathtouch is an ability a gorgon would have in the mythical world, similar to medusa and her petrifying gaze
What I don't get is why it's activated. Many gorgons have deathtouch or an ability like it as a static ability. Why give this one an activated deathtouch? To mirror the (really kind of random) hexproof activation? This card feels like a box-ticking exercise more than any sort of organic or top-down gorgon design.

It is sort of weird that this is now the second 4/5 for four in this set (the first was Ember Swallower). Are 4/4s for four too common now (literally, thanks to Rumbling Baloth), so we have to one-up ourselves to keep things exciting? No sir, I do not like this power creep. I do not like it one bit.

Also, I'm now taking bets on whether this set or M14 will be worse, to be paid out when the full set is spoiled.

[Dice_Box]

M14 had new goblins for me to dig for, this set has a Modern Gaea's Cradle. That both means that have something to offer, but the rest... I vote M14 will have been better overall with the new set having a more interesting flavor overall.

[lyracian]

Never mind shocklands. Compare these to Guildgates. Apparently adding scry 1 also adds two rarity levels to a card.
Which is probably the major reason these are getting hate. ETB Duals have been uncommon in (I think all) Modern frame sets until Ravnica put them at common and now they jump to rare for a 1 card peek! At Scry 2 I might have thought them worthwhile.


What I don't get is why it's activated. Many gorgons have deathtouch or an ability like it as a static ability. Why give this one an activated deathtouch? To mirror the (really kind of random) hexproof activation? This card feels like a box-ticking exercise more than any sort of organic or top-down gorgon design. It is sort of weird that this is now the second 4/5 for four in this set (the first was Ember Swallower). Are 4/4s for four too common now (literally, thanks to Rumbling Baloth), so we have to one-up ourselves to keep things exciting? No sir, I do not like this power creep. I do not like it one bit.It seems to have been given one black and one green ability but clearly it is a shape shifter as it has to decide if it is being one of the other! One of the Ravnica design articles said they were going to start giving Black creatures higher toughness to make them seem different from red creatures so I am guessing that is where the +0/+1 comes from.


If Scry 1 were a compelling ability, then Sylvan Library would see more play. Not good as a creature, and the activated ability isn't very strong. I don't expect Thassa to see any competitive legacy play.
Also, if you're going to refer to something, link to it. http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/spoiler-spotlight-thassa-god-of-the-sea/Thanks for the link. I like the idea of a Miracles of the Sea deck; I also think she will help Merfolk against those non-blue opponents like Maverick and Jund. I will probably just run her as a singleton to see how it actually plays.

[Hof]

New Benalia has seen no competitive play since 2007, and granted the Theros ones are a strict upgrade with two colors, but hardly enough to make a come into play tapped land playable outside of limited.
I would agree that they seem misplaced in the rare slot.
Those lands are too weak for Legacy, even for Modern, and because they occupy rare slots they will certainly make me value Theros boosters less (not that I would buy any anyway, to be fair, but there were some expectations for Legacy playable lands floating around on the web, which could have changed this assessment).

But hey, I am a Legacy player, and expect 98% of cards in new sets to be junk anyway. The task now is to correctly identifiy the 2% that isn't.

[Barook]

One of the Ravnica design articles said they were going to start giving Black creatures higher toughness to make them seem different from red creatures so I am guessing that is where the +0/+1 comes from.
Which is fucking stupid because how long until they realize that higher toughness is white's territory? No wonder black and red struggle with their identity these days.

Traditionally, it has been more like this:

:w:: higher toughness
:u:: crappy P/T due to more powerful spells (fuck you, Delver!)
:b:: high combat stats, but with a (managable) drawback (often paired up with higher power)
:r:: higher power
:g:: high P/T in general to balance out weaker spells

I like how W/R and U/G are opposites of each other. While black didn't belong to neither, it had its own niche that worked.

But since they haven't printed many powerful, black creatures with drawbacks for a while now because the average mouthbreather doesn't like drawbacks and print super-efficient evasive beaters in blue like Delver and Clique (which is also a major offender to the color pie - blue should not have hand disruption) instead, it's only a logical consequence that the color identities are a horrible mess.

[Aggro_zombies]

One of the Ravnica design articles said they were going to start giving Black creatures higher toughness to make them seem different from red creatures so I am guessing that is where the +0/+1 comes from.
This would work, except the other four mana 4/5 in the set is red (Ember Swallower).

So...yeah.

[menace13]

Strange that wotc would put these at rare with Rav shocks still legal. Even after Rav rotates, Theros seems like return to Legends set and has a good amount of multi colored cards. What set are they releasing after Theros? I would assume something that also follows the frame work of placing these lands as rare. M14 not having duals influences my line of thinking here as well.

[Opaco]

Strange that wotc would put these at rare with Rav shocks still legal. Even after Rav rotates, Theros seems like return to Legends set and has a good amount of multi colored cards. What set are they releasing after Theros? I would assume something that also follows the frame work of placing these lands as rare. M14 not having duals influences my line of thinking here as well.


Never mind shocklands. Compare these to Guildgates. Apparently adding scry 1 also adds two rarity levels to a card.

Adding scry 1 AND removing all the Gate subtype interactions. Even if those interactions were mostly only relevant in limited, at least they could do some amount of fixing/CA being fetched with things like Gatecreeper Vine or Maze's End. I cannot find it, but I remember that when Theros was being presented someone (maybe Maro?) said that they were quite excited with the new duals design or something along those lines. Really, since when is adding scry 1 indiscriminately could be considered "exciting"?

It seems that all effort in this set has been put in the setting and flavour, color identity (Curse) or rarity (Guildgates > Temples, Chained > Journey) be damned.

[Dice_Box]

It seems that all effort in this set has been put in the setting and flavour, color identity (Curse) or rarity (Guildgates > Temples, Chained > Journey) be damned.They made this mistake once before when they made a set call Kamigawa. Granted they toned its power down due to it being the set right after Mirrodin. What's the excuse this time?

[Lemnear]

They made this mistake once before when they made a set call Kamigawa. Granted they toned its power down due to it being the set right after Mirrodin. What's the excuse this time?

"The block isn't worse than Return to Ravnica! We're awesome!"

[Megadeus]

I guess I'm just mad that they make a big deal about legendary lands not strip mining each other, abd then they print shitty scry lands. I wish they at least would have made some sort of legendary utility duals or something

[Darkenslight]

I guess I'm just mad that they make a big deal about legendary lands not strip mining each other, abd then they print shitty scry lands. I wish they at least would have made some sort of legendary utility duals or something

Those will totally be printed in "Huey". Just to fuck with the players.

[lyracian]

This would work, except the other four mana 4/5 in the set is red (Ember Swallower).
So...yeah.Well that was what Maro wrote in one of his articles; I really can not be bothered to go look for it but I believe it was when he was talking about Bane Alley Blackguard.

[Rizso]

Theros drafts wont be needing gates ravnica block pretty much required it thats why it had keystones, otherstones as well as guildgates at lower rarity.

If Scrylands would be common the limited format would be crazy grabb a bomb and scry lands to find that game winning bomb every game.

Scrylands dampens mana screw and manaflood without puting resources into it, all it requires is taking it a bit slower. Actually have to play some basic lands in the deck, how aweful!

[TsumiBand]

Theros drafts wont be needing gates ravnica block pretty much required it thats why it had keystones, otherstones as well as guildgates at lower rarity.

If Scrylands would be common the limited format would be crazy grabb a bomb and scry lands to find that game winning bomb every game.

Scrylands dampens mana screw and manaflood without puting resources into it, all it requires is taking it a bit slower. Actually have to play some basic lands in the deck, how aweful!

"There have to be non-bomb rares in a set, because Limited" only works so many times.

I get it; there can't be an Enlarge or a Form of the Dragon in every pack. If I wanted a prize every time I opened a 4.00 pack I'd buy cereal all day. I think people are rightfully pointing out that new players are going to wonder how they went from common taplands and rare shocklands to these, though; they smell like uncommons through and through, and moreover there is nothing wrong with printing your mana fixing at uncommon for Limited.

[Kayradis]

The standard season will be boring. Again.

[Rizso]

Not every format needs ravnica lvl of mana fixing.

[Opaco]

Not every format needs ravnica lvl of mana fixing.

But there is no problem with having Eight Edition (original taplands, I don't know about how Invasion limited was) or Zendikar (refuges) level of mana fixing by printing them as uncommons.

[TsumiBand]

But there is no problem with having Eight Edition (original taplands, I don't know about how Invasion limited was) or Zendikar (refuges) level of mana fixing by printing them as uncommons.

"It's the mana fixing Standard deserves... even if it's the kind it doesn't need right now."

More than that though it is hard to intuit what is down the road. For now Standard still has shocks and Gates, but when out rotates the only cards we know exist to fix it right now are scrylands. I mean dang, is Terramorphic Expanse even in Standard? Market research indicates people hate not being able to cast spells when they lands tap for the wrong color, I thought anyway...

[Lemnear]

"It's the mana fixing Standard deserves... even if it's the kind it doesn't need right now."

no batman references ... please

[Barook]

I wonder what the scapegoat is going to be this time if Theros fails? Probably "Bestow being to complicated".

Mechanic-wise, the set is boring. Heroic sucks, Monstrous sucks, Bestow sucks, Devotion is a recycled Chroma (and meh) and the Scry cards are unimpressive to downright insulting. What the hell were they thinking?

When people purchase packs, they want value. Hence Modern Masters selling like hotcakes (a fun limited format helps, too).

[rufus]

I wonder what the scapegoat is going to be this time if Theros fails? Probably "Bestow being to complicated"...

I think that macroeconomic factors are bigger than set quality, and it will be a commercial success. For everything else, there's denial.

[Lemnear]

@Barook

They'll blame Enchantments as an overaged concept and worse Alternative to artifacts

[Gheizen64]

@Barook

They'll blame Enchantments as an overaged concept and worse Alternative to artifacts

They could errata all old enchantments to be colored artifact anyway and they'd nerf goyf and buff red together in a single move :cool:

[Kayradis]

Anyway, I'm expecting the next set to be somewhere between the "could be worse" and the "could be better".

Ill grind points outta standard for another 2 weeks with White Weenies before netdecking an "all-right" deck for Provincials.

[Barook]

They could errata all old enchantments to be colored artifact anyway and they'd nerf goyf and buff red together in a single move :cool:
But red can't destroy enchantments! That would be heresy!

Unless it's a brilliant move to make people sick enough of enchantments to get rid of them without the vast majority of people complaining.


Anyway, I'm expecting the next set to be somewhere between the "could be worse" and the "could be better".

Ill grind points outta standard for another 2 weeks with White Weenies before netdecking an "all-right" deck for Provincials.
Next set has Tom LaPille and Ken Nagle, so I predict the following:

- tons of unplayable crap
- one ridiculously overdesigned, narrow creature to deal with the latest R&D fuck-up (I'm looking at you, Skylasher) which is going to do jackshit
- 1-2 broken cards that are going to significantly alter the Legacy format

[Lemnear]

50$ a bet that Born of the Gods and Journey to Nyx each contain at least 1 of the following:

1) a 5cc+ white mythic Angel
2) a 5cc+ black mythic Demon
3) a 5cc+ red mythic Dragon

[Koby]

50$ a bet that Born of the Gods and Journey to Nyx each contain at least 1 of the following:

1) a 5cc+ white mythic Angel
2) a 5cc+ black mythic Demon
3) a 5cc+ red mythic Dragon

Really making a bold claim here. A fantasy game with fantasy creatures. You're clairvoyant or something?

[rufus]

50$ a bet that Born of the Gods and Journey to Nyx each contain at least 1 of the following:

1) a 5cc+ white mythic Angel
2) a 5cc+ black mythic Demon
3) a 5cc+ red mythic Dragon

Rounded out with a Sphinx and a Beast?

[Gheizen64]

WotC's being so Lazy with dual design. CipT isn't the only possible drawback they can have, but everything you see is CipT or simply CipT conditionaly (M10, Lorwyn, Shocks). I mean you could've had Odyssey filterlands with scry 1, lands that need you to bounce another land with scry 1, Gemstone mine variants, duals that give colorless or don't untap if you control no basics, duals that make you reveal your hand, duals that remove your graveyard, etc... instead they basically always go for the same land with minor differences, making deckbuilding a mana base a simple matter of "get the best dual" because they're all so similar. In legacy even more so. Horizon's the only dual that see consistent play outside of original dual lands.

[Lemnear]

Really making a bold claim here. A fantasy game with fantasy creatures. You're clairvoyant or something?

Nope, it's a complaint that they manage to reserve the same spots in every Expansion for the same creature types (ignoring every setting and worldbuilding) with the same absurd manacosts.

At least Khalia EDH gets a few new toys each Expansion :/

[TheDarkshineKnight]

But there is no problem with having Eight Edition (original taplands, I don't know about how Invasion limited was) or Zendikar (refuges) level of mana fixing by printing them as uncommons.

If there wasn't a problem, they would likely have been made uncommon. R&D didn't want mana fixing to be easily available in Theros limited, thus the cycle is rare. And while I know it's cool and all to hate on R&D for every real or imagined slight, I'd like to believe they have a fairly good idea of what they're doing with regards to Limited design.

[apple713]

Most sets aren't worth opening packs for as Eternal player, unless they contain enough value to trade for eternal staples. Not every set can be Future Sight.

Futuresight only became good after they printed a bunch of cards that worked well with them. goyf is the 1 exception.


Never mind shocklands. Compare these to Guildgates. Apparently adding scry 1 also adds two rarity levels to a card.


What I don't get is why it's activated. Many gorgons have deathtouch or an ability like it as a static ability. Why give this one an activated deathtouch? To mirror the (really kind of random) hexproof activation? This card feels like a box-ticking exercise more than any sort of organic or top-down gorgon design.

It is sort of weird that this is now the second 4/5 for four in this set (the first was Ember Swallower). Are 4/4s for four too common now (literally, thanks to Rumbling Baloth), so we have to one-up ourselves to keep things exciting? No sir, I do not like this power creep. I do not like it one bit.

Also, I'm now taking bets on whether this set or M14 will be worse, to be paid out when the full set is spoiled.

correct the ability shouldn't be activated and should be inherantly a static ability. But for 4CMC they cant keep it a 4/5. This probably should haave been a 3/4 with deathtouch and hexproof static

[Mewens]

There's also a subtheme of "when you scry, do something" that's cropping up in some of the spoilers. I wouldn't be surprised if the rare duals really had rare-feeling abilities at some point -- Scry 2 or something more exciting -- but that the combination of fixer + powerful card selection + bonus for doing things you already want to do "broke" FFFFFL (or whatever the fruit they're calling it now).

If that's true, my guess is that they did everything in their power to not just reprint the Invasion etb lands; they know that cycle's not well-liked, but any changes came too late in development to really shuffle the rarity around. They definitely look ugly at rare.

In any case, I wouldn't throw my hands up in disgust over the cycle quite yet, in terms of money. Standard's a weird beast, and we've only seen half the set; I wouldn't be surprised if, over the course of the block, the "bonus for scrying" mechanic ends up making these very attractive to certain decks in T2.

[Lemnear]

So you seriously think that they further reward Library manipulation? Wake up! They just use scry to Splash Library Manipulation into other colors than blue and continue to fuck with the colorpie

[TsumiBand]

Nope, it's a complaint that they manage to reserve the same spots in every Expansion for the same creature types (ignoring every setting and worldbuilding) with the same absurd manacosts.

At least Khalia EDH gets a few new toys each Expansion :/

I prefer this to throwing darts at a board and going "For this random dude with abilities, looks like we're going to be making iiit aaaaa... *toss* ...Beholder. Sweet." At least fatties with relevant existing creature types have a home outside of cheatFatIntoPlay.dec.

When things don't have meaningful or under-represented creature types, they necessarily lose more than they gain from being genetically ambiguous. Crosstown Courier pisses me right off because it is just a Vedalken. It has a race, but no class? Not a Vedalken Wizard, not a Rogue, not a Soldier or Advisor or anything, just... Vedalken. Weak sauce.

Also Kaalia of the Vast = Total. Don't talk shit about Total.

@ random 4/5 Gorgon for 2BG - apparently Black has toughness now, since there's that whole "we forgot how to make Black and Red seem different after stripping Black of its suicidal awesomeness" thing. If Black gets toughness and Green gets fat in general, I'll buy a 4/5 for 2GB.

Remember, for just 1 colorless more you get a 6/6 that changes color, regenerates, and gets madder and madder all the time (Spiritmonger). That guy's been around a good long time. Honestly I think it's hard to be mad about Gorgon Thing when you point back at Spiritmonger and go, "Yeah, well... yeah."



There's also a subtheme of "when you scry, do something" that's cropping up in some of the spoilers. I wouldn't be surprised if the rare duals really had rare-feeling abilities at some point -- Scry 2 or something more exciting -- but that the combination of fixer + powerful card selection + bonus for doing things you already want to do "broke" FFFFFL (or whatever the fruit they're calling it now).

If that's true, my guess is that they did everything in their power to not just reprint the Invasion etb lands; they know that cycle's not well-liked, but any changes came too late in development to really shuffle the rarity around. They definitely look ugly at rare.

In any case, I wouldn't throw my hands up in disgust over the cycle quite yet, in terms of money. Standard's a weird beast, and we've only seen half the set; I wouldn't be surprised if, over the course of the block, the "bonus for scrying" mechanic ends up making these very attractive to certain decks in T2.

This is actually pretty fair. With all the colors having access to Scry in some way, Standard may lend itself to a lot less variance than typical. It's not "everything's a Brainstorm" good, but when things trigger off of Scrying or when things trigger lots of Scry or whatever, and everyone's seeing the cards they want to see a little more often, it might actually work out to be a really interesting time to play Standard.

[Nihil Credo]

So you seriously think that they further reward Library manipulation? Wake up! They just use scry to Splash Library Manipulation into other colors than blue and continue to fuck with the colorpieGod forbid Blue shouldn't have a monopoly on drawing and controlling its draws a.k.a. arguably the strongest strategy in the game?

[obituary 95]

If there wasn't a problem, they would likely have been made uncommon. R&D didn't want mana fixing to be easily available in Theros limited, thus the cycle is rare. And while I know it's cool and all to hate on R&D for every real or imagined slight, I'd like to believe they have a fairly good idea of what they're doing with regards to Limited design.

I thought they had good ideas as well, then Tom LaPille hit magic and suddenly everyone was supposed to play with great sable stag.

[Lemnear]

God forbid Blue shouldn't have a monopoly on drawing and controlling its draws a.k.a. arguably the strongest strategy in the game?

Honestly, I don't think that the concept of card advantage should be limited to blue, nor should removal be limited to certain colors. Therefore I like the ability "fight" for green a lot.

However, I do expect that a development team, that praises itself at each opportunity they get, can come up with unique forms of cardadvantage/removal for each color.

Concepts like Cascade, leaving behind Token (like Thragtusk) or the possibility to "return from Grave" (Gravecrawler) are excellent ways to achieve cardadvantage in other colors than blue, like bounce, (blue) exile (white), destroying (Black), dealing direct damage (red) and fight (green) are unique ways of dealing with creatures.

Just slapping scry onto creatures, lands, Enchantments, instants and sorceries of every color is just lazy and the core of my grief here

[Anusien]

It always amazes me when people judge a set after seeing less than half of it and having never played it.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

It always amazes me when people judge a set after seeing less than half of it and having never played it.

Otoh, if you play the game for decade, it is really obvious that Veldt 2.0 ain't gonna be broken... w/e "broken" means.

[Lemnear]

It always amazes me when people judge a set after seeing less than half of it and having never played it.

We know the mechanics and have an idea how WotC implements them. It's too early to say the set is "bad" (I remind on RtR), but it's possible to make a Statement about the mechanics and make a guess about their use in Legacy

[Barook]

Futuresight only became good after they printed a bunch of cards that worked well with them. goyf is the 1 exception.
Aven Mindcensor
Bridge from Below
Horizon Canopy
Magus of the Moon
Narcomoeba
Pact of Negation (Flash)
Summoner's Pact (Flash)
Slaughter Pact
Tombstalker

To name a few. There are also corner cases that became better later.


I thought they had good ideas as well, then Tom LaPille hit magic and suddenly everyone was supposed to play with great sable stag.
It isn't just Tom LaPille, I see Maro as a major problem as well. Not everything he does is bad, but his stifling grip kills alot of creativity.

The recycling of old cards has become more blatant lately, especially at double/tripple the mana cost. Seedborn Muse: Awesome Edition is just the latest example.

[Koby]

It always amazes me when people judge a set after seeing less than half of it and having never played it.

For the most part (95%), these sets are not designed for Legacy or play with Legacy in mind. They are designed for Limited play and some application for Standard. This much is evident by the shear number of under-utilized cards in the Standard pool because how many "Giant Growth variation #197" are going to appear in Constructed?

As far as the Scry lands are concerned, putting them at rare is clearly a Developmental move to balance the ability of color splashing with the rest of the set. As further evidence, only 5 of possible 10 combinations show up. This leads me to think that not all 2 color pairs are heavily pushed in this set (yet.. there's a :b::r: Zombie King...). We can agree that a well built set can build any number of draft strategies such as Innistrad enabled. Theros block will be Large/Small/Small design, which means again that the bulk of the Fall set will need to flesh out the designs. Again, why the omission of the other 5 colored pairs?

Answer:
"Tom LaPille made a strong argument, though, that the previous year in Standard had extra time with the Return to Ravnica shocklands, and that the Gatecrash color pairs could use some extra time in the spotlight, so that is the model we went with. This left us with five more for the rest of the block. What will the order be for their release? You'll have to wait and see."

Yes, our dear friend Tom "Great Sable Stag" LaPille. Additionally, they were picked from all 10 pairs to line up with Standard's needs in the FFL, and possibly to the flow of booster drafts using THS x3. Sam Stoddard's Dev article also mentions that the use of Scry lands is designed to help game play in all formats. That's a great idea! However, putting them at rare means that a booster draft might see, 2-3 per draft. Which means we won't see them enough to help out most players in the draft.

We judge a set when we have enough information to call "bullshit" on R&D's pathetic moves after forcibly changing the Legend rules w/r/t Legendary Lands as the prime example. Instead we get Gateless Gates with Scry 1.

Pathetic.

[Aggro_zombies]

50$ a bet that Born of the Gods and Journey to Nyx each contain at least 1 of the following:

1) a 5cc+ white mythic Angel
2) a 5cc+ black mythic Demon
3) a 5cc+ red mythic Dragon
Considering the flavor people indicated there aren't angels on Theros, I will take you up on this one.

@Anusien: I'm judging this set by how much it makes me want to purchase it. I find all five of its main mechanics - Heroic, Monstrosity, Bestow, Chrom...er, Devotion, and Scry - to be workable but boring. None of those mechanics inspires me to build a deck, try the Limited format, or part with my money for packs or singles. Worse, all five will likely be carried through the block, which means things probably aren't going to get better (when was the last time they had six mediocre sets in a row?). As for individually interesting cards that would still motivate me to pick up singles to update my EDH decks, there haven't been any. Traditionally, some of the most exciting cards in the set are shown in the first week of previews, which really doesn't bode well for the rest of the set.

So yeah, unless things pick up significantly from here, this set gets a solid thumbs down.

[nedleeds]

It always amazes me when people judge a set after seeing less than half of it and having never played it.

I dont play sets. I play legacy and vintage. As of today this set is a shit pie.

[Lemnear]

Considering the flavor people indicated there aren't angels on Theros, I will take you up on this one.

Name me one Expansion or Core set in the last 7 years which had not at least one of the named (which was my claim).

Theros shouldn't have Angels by any means. I'll assault their Creative Department if they dare to print any

[Aggro_zombies]

And now we know why the scry lands are rare (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/60466850226/these-scry-lands-are-pretty-souring-actually-they).

I'm not sure I agree with vanilla taplands being uncommon by default, but assuming you believe that the rest of it makes sense. The uncommon slot does tend to be the home of build-arounds, quality removal, and game-swinging creatures as far as Limited is concerned (I'm willing to bet, for example, that there is an uncommon rare enchantment that deals 2 damage whenever you either cast an enchantment or enchant a creature you control).

[Lemnear]

And now we know why the scry lands are rare (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/60466850226/these-scry-lands-are-pretty-souring-actually-they).

I'm not sure I agree with vanilla taplands being uncommon by default, but assuming you believe that the rest of it makes sense. The uncommon slot does tend to be the home of build-arounds, quality removal, and game-swinging creatures as far as Limited is concerned (I'm willing to bet, for example, that there is an uncommon rare enchantment that deals 2 damage whenever you either cast an enchantment or enchant a creature you control).

Means: "we don't want too much multicolor in limited, but a shitload of cracked booster for Standard-constructed as soon as RtR rotates."

Such an enchantment-cycle would be nuts for Enchantress unless it costs at least 4 mana

[Dice_Box]

Such an enchantment-cycle would be nuts for Enchantress unless it costs at least 4 manaAs much as I agree, since we have not seen them get a lot of love lately, all the enchantments I have seen have been underwhelming.

[TsumiBand]

And now we know why the scry lands are rare (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/60466850226/these-scry-lands-are-pretty-souring-actually-they).

I'm not sure I agree with vanilla taplands being uncommon by default, but assuming you believe that the rest of it makes sense. The uncommon slot does tend to be the home of build-arounds, quality removal, and game-swinging creatures as far as Limited is concerned (I'm willing to bet, for example, that there is an uncommon rare enchantment that deals 2 damage whenever you either cast an enchantment or enchant a creature you control).

Then wtf Zendikar? 3 gold cards in ZEN block, uncommon tap-duals. Theros - already spoiled 14 multicolored cards, rare scry-duals. Why bother with uncommon mana fixing in ZEN, especially if the latter half of that set is going to be dominated by colorless Eldrazi?

[Aggro_zombies]

Such an enchantment-cycle would be nuts for Enchantress unless it costs at least 4 mana
Nah, it's because they do it every block now:

Pyroconvergence
Burning Vengeance
Furnace Celebration
Rumbling Aftershocks

It's the "uncommon enchantment meant to provide a build-around card in Draft for one of the set's/block's themes."

EDIT: @Tsumiband: reread the post. MaRo said that taplands are uncommon by default. Apparently, +1 life from the Zendikar lands was not enough of a benefit to justify increasing the rarity. Scry could go either way, but they decided to move it up because of Limited concerns.

I would argue that taplands are probably between common and uncommon just in terms of excitement - that is, there isn't any anymore - so a tapland + some marginal EtB benefit would be solidly uncommon while a major benefit - like the Core Set/Innistrad checklands - would be between uncommon and rare.

[Lemnear]

Nah, it's because they do it every block now:

Pyroconvergence
Burning Vengeance
Furnace Celebration
Rumbling Aftershocks

It's the "uncommon enchantment meant to provide a build-around card in Draft for one of the set's/block's themes."

Having 4 cards in your Enchantress.dec which all trigger 2 damage per cast enchantment is much more potent than Words of War and that was/is an Enchantress-staple at 3cc.

That's a very dangerous cycle if printed

[Aggro_zombies]

Having 4 cards in your Enchantress.dec which all trigger 2 damage per cast enchantment is much more potent than Words of War and that was/is an Enchantress-staple at 3cc.

That's a very dangerous cycle if printed
What I'm saying is that it's not a cycle. It's just that they do a one-of red uncommon enchantment that usually throws out Shocks whenever you do something with one of the block's themes. For example, I could see the Theros version of the card being something like:

Obligatory Shock Enchantment
Whenever you cast an enchantment spell, ~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
[High CMC]

Obligatory Shock Enchantment
Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of an Aura spell you control, ~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
[3cc]

Obligatory Shock Enchantment
Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of a spell you control, ~ deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
[3cc]

Something along those lines. It sort of depends on what red is supposed to be good at in this set. The latter card, for example, is your Hero deck backbone.

[Lemnear]

Yeah, every set has it's "Shock" in either form...

[Dice_Box]

Yeah, every set has it's "Shock" in either form...Well they have come out with this already: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145419&d=1378399670

[Gheizen64]

There's supposedly a reverse FoF at 2UR, reverse in the sense that you make the piles and the opponent choose.

I have no idea if this make it better or worse than FoF.

[TsumiBand]

There's supposedly a reverse FoF at 2UR, reverse in the sense that you make the piles and the opponent choose.

I have no idea if this make it better or worse than FoF.

2UR: draw two cards?

[Lord Seth]

There's supposedly a reverse FoF at 2UR, reverse in the sense that you make the piles and the opponent choose.

I have no idea if this make it better or worse than FoF.
We already had a reverse Fact or Fiction called Truth or Tale, and it cost only 1U and was definitely worse than the original. The player who picks which pile goes into the hand has a massive advantage over the player who divides them up. If it's a reverse Fact or Fiction at 2UR, it's not only worse than Fact or Fiction, it's downright terrible.

EDIT: Whoops, I misread Truth or Tale and didn't realize you only got one card from it.

[lordofthepit]

We already had a reverse Fact or Fiction called Truth or Tale, and it cost only 1U and was definitely worse than the original. The player who picks which pile goes into the hand has a massive advantage over the player who divides them up. If it's a reverse Fact or Fiction at 2UR, it's not only worse than Fact or Fiction, it's downright terrible.

That's because Truth or Tale put only one card from the worse pile into your hand. A 2-cc reverse FoF would definitely see play.

[Lord Seth]

That's because Truth or Tale put only one card from the worse pile into your hand. A 2-cc reverse FoF would definitely see play.I know, I just realized that and was coming back to edit my post to fix it, but it looks like you already replied to it. :(

I still think it's a lot worse than Fact or Fiction though, even if you discount the fact you now need to be in two colors. The person who gets to decide after the fact is the one with the advantage.

[rufus]

That's because Truth or Tale put only one card from the worse pile into your hand. A 2-cc reverse FoF would definitely see play.

That's probably true in general, though there are probably situations where you can make two mana+business piles. (Of course, at 4 cc, in legacy, you shouldn't need extra mana.)
Truth or Tale also doesn't fill the graveyard, while Fact or Fiction does.

[Barook]

It's nice for some mind games with your opponent to trick him into getting the cards you need.

Fact or Fiction doesn't see Legacy play anymore, so a worse version with a worse mana cost won't see play either in this format.

Yet another case of uncreative recycling of old, iconic cards. :rolleyes:

[TsumiBand]

It's basically a weird shitty Gifts Ungiven, then; you get five random cards off the top, and your opponent throws three in the bin for you.

[Darkenslight]

It's basically a weird shitty Gifts Ungiven, then; you get five random cards off the top, and your opponent throws three in the bin for you.

BUT THINK OF THE MIND GAMES! :D

But yes, this encourages a huge amount of bluffing and doublethink.

[Finn]

I think this card is a good idea, and I bet there is a strong Standard deck based upon it coming soon. Fact or Fiction was too good for a Standard with Psychatog and good counterspells. But this one demands red. Fact or Fiction is the better effect too because it gives the opponent less information at the time he makes his decision. But this one retains, and possibly improves upon (don't know) the part that rewards skilled players. I disagree that this simply a recycled idea. It is more than that. It just isn't for Legacy.

[alphacat]

It doesn't have search, and gives your opponent the choice. So, essentially, it combines the worst qualities of both FoF and Gifts Ungiven.

I think it's definitely going to have an impact in standard and modern. However, for formats with FoF, it will have no impact.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I think this card is a good idea, and I bet there is a strong Standard deck based upon it coming soon. Fact or Fiction was too good for a Standard with Psychatog and good counterspells. But this one demands red. Fact or Fiction is the better effect too because it gives the opponent less information at the time he makes his decision. But this one retains, and possibly improves upon (don't know) the part that rewards skilled players. I disagree that this simply a recycled idea. It is more than that. It just isn't for Legacy.

I agree completely. The new FoF will be awesome in Modern, I think helping out UWR control much more than stuff like combo (since you can hopefully pick the non-combo piece pile. FoF is frankly too strong for modern, but I'm a huge fan of cards that require playskill.

Legacy will be unaffected, since FoF is just better and easier to cast, but I'm still happy to see this type of card coming out. I thought they would just be printing big dumb creatures to lower the amount of skill needed completely.

[Megadeus]

Play sphinx of uthuun. Profit

[Phoenix Ignition]

Goodbye all copies of Angel of Despair in Legacy.

Say hello to

http://www.topdecker.gr/images/Ashen-Rider_9-9-2013topdecker.jpg

[Barook]

So they took Angel of Despair, added :1: to the mana cost, gave it exile and a die trigger? :eyebrow:

A better "cheat into play" card for sure, even if it's uncreative as fuck.

[Rizso]

Pack Rat might become something in constructed as its gives devotion to black and with the land that gives mana from devotion seem pretty sweet with it. And black got couple of card draw's going now. Underworld connection read the bones etc.

[Amon Amarth]

I think this card is a good idea, and I bet there is a strong Standard deck based upon it coming soon. Fact or Fiction was too good for a Standard with Psychatog and good counterspells. But this one demands red. Fact or Fiction is the better effect too because it gives the opponent less information at the time he makes his decision. But this one retains, and possibly improves upon (don't know) the part that rewards skilled players. I disagree that this simply a recycled idea. It is more than that. It just isn't for Legacy.

Agreed. I really like this card quite a bit. It makes me want to play Standard and jam some Gainsays and Magma Jets and Aetherlings and...

I think there is greater reward for casting neo-FoF, is your deck is built correctly. The card rewards a lot of things that seemed to be missing from MTG, at least in Standard. Should be playable in Modern too.

[TsumiBand]

Goodbye all copies of Angel of Despair in Legacy.

Say hello to

http://www.topdecker.gr/images/Ashen-Rider_9-9-2013topdecker.jpg

HOLY FUCK YES. HEART. <3 <3 <3

Man oh man is this going right in GhostCouncilEDH.dec. Yeah sure I'll sac this dude to GCoO and return it with Nim Deathmantle. Hi-freaking-larious.

[apple713]

Ashen Rider is sick, however should he really be mythic for a CMC of 8?

[Morte]

Goodbye all copies of Angel of Despair in Legacy.

Say hello to

http://www.topdecker.gr/images/Ashen-Rider_9-9-2013topdecker.jpg

Love the arakh of the girl. Didn't know the Dothraki were Greek people, maybe G. R. R. Martin is the secret identity of Homer. And no Wizards, I don't mean Homer Simpson...

[DrHealex]

That art belongs on the side of a van :D

[apple713]

Black finally got it!

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145537&d=1378699254

[Aggro_zombies]

Ashen Rider is sick, however should he really be mythic for a CMC of 8?
Angel of Despair was a rare with a CMC of seven, so...

Rider has two upgrades on it: exiling and a death trigger. Seems like a fair cost/rarity to me.

[Lemnear]

Half of the set spoilered ... only Legacy entry so far is Ashen Rider for Reanimator/Show&Tell, or did I miss something?

[apple713]

Half of the set spoilered ... only Legacy entry so far is Ashen Rider for Reanimator/Show&Tell, or did I miss something?

thoughtseize reprint, and potentially Xenagos. But we usually only expect to see 2 to 3 cards max from new sets.

The following come from the Magicthegathering website

what erebos should have been (Developments first draft)

Daimon
4B
Legendary Enchantment Creature – God
Intimidate
CARDNAME is indestructible.
At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent loses X life, where X is your devotion to black.
As long as your devotion to black is 5 or less, CARDNAME isn't a creature
8/5

"We had one more iteration of the black God that allowed you to regenerate any creature by discarding a card. It was super cool but so frustrating."

because something is frustrating in development they nix the idea, wtf... no wonder we get shitty sets.


"Since Mark maintains the color pie," isn't MaRo's favorite color Blue?

"Unfortunately, as we started FFL, it became apparent this was not enough. There are artifacts, enchantments, and Planeswalkers in Theros, and black couldn't remove any of them. So, weeks of FFL were spent making the black decks faster until they looked more like red decks. I decided something had to change, and I had an idea what" so they came up with hero's downfall....still doesn't answer enchantments or artifacts, and the planeswalkers in the set are so bad its a waste of a rare spot.

[lyracian]

Half of the set spoilered ... only Legacy entry so far is Ashen Rider for Reanimator/Show&Tell, or did I miss something?Angel of Despair is used occasionally in Dredge and as sideboard tech agains S&T so a few more decks that will want Rider.

[Rizso]

Ashen Rider is sick, however should he really be mythic for a CMC of 8?

Rarirty has nothing to do with its power. Its a way to control how many there will be in limited formats. The card thoes feel mythic as well.

[GoblinSettler]

That art belongs on the side of a van :D

So right!

Also, card feels very Ravnica to me. Obviously too good for Dragon's Maze. Must have had to push it back a set.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I like the Archon and will happily swap Britney with him.

[Dice_Box]

I like the Archon and will happily swap Britney with him.The new Archon is female.

[Barook]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145552&stc=1&d=1378708602

A legendary Glorious Anthem that can also kill creatures? 3 mana per activation is alot, but might be worth it in decks packing Vial.

[HPB_Eggo]

If Soldiers or WW were a thing in Legacy I could see it getting played, but it definitely isn't going into D&T so I'm not seeing it having a real impact unless a new deck shows up that wants it.

Not that it's bad, it just doesn't fit into anything right now. Right sort of deck would absolutely love that card.

[ivanpei]

I like this spear a lot. However Vedalken Shackles is still better at the 3cc control slot. The best deck to use this would be a control-ish token deck. Maybe bw deadguy ale with bitterblossom, lingering souls and elspeth? Maybe even the www card that makes 3 flyers.

It's a glorious anthem that's not winmore since it helps you kill attackers when behind.

[Tylert]

WTF!! the spear isn't an equipement :(
Too bad, it would have been a nice sideboard card for D&T to fight sulfur elementals, enginered plague or dread of night...

[TsumiBand]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145552&stc=1&d=1378708602

A legendary Glorious Anthem that can also kill creatures? 3 mana per activation is alot, but might be worth it in decks packing Vial.

Some of the other posters have already said as much -- I agree, there isn't a home for it just yet. It's too bad that the classic Crusade + dorks thing isn't actually a thing, because this is a really neat Glorious Anthem variant. I can imagine this being a relevant card in Standard, where Extort can be played to some effect and so the ability to destroy guys that get through is pretty okay.

[rufus]

...
Not that it's bad, it just doesn't fit into anything right now. Right sort of deck would absolutely love that card.

I think spear will be a house in standard, but the mana cost and conditionality make unplayable for legacy. (Still seems like one of the better cards in the set...)

[iamajellydonut]

Rider has two upgrades on it: exiling and a death trigger. Seems like a fair cost/rarity to me.

Except that rarity does not justify power?

[lyracian]

Except that rarity does not justify power?
I thought that was Maro's excuses for Mythics in the first place that rareity did equal power?

[Aggro_zombies]

The new Archon is female.
Not to mention half-black!

[TsumiBand]

I thought that was Maro's excuses for Mythics in the first place that rareity did equal power?

Right!

Except when it doesn't, because reasons.

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/60489512331/scrylands-being-rare-i-read-your-rationale-but-im#notes



tsumiband asked: @scrylands being rare: I read your rationale, but I'm still confused. Zendikar gave us the lifelands (when ETB, +1 life) at uncommon. I suppose on the whole I personally value scry 1 over +1 life. But it still seems like making two-color lands uncommon in a set with (according to Gatherer) 3 gold cards AND later explores colorless (Eldrazi), versus Theros which is already revealed to have 14 gold cards thus a greater need, but puts its two-color lands at rare. What am I missing?

You’re missing that Zendikar was a land block with a number of different land cycles. The life land cycle was uncommon because two other land cycles were rare and the life land cycle was less common than either of them.

[rufus]

MaRo is often more specious or self-aggrandizing in his writings than anything else. Paying too much attention will only irritate you.

[zulander]

It's really crappy that the blue enchantment/not creature card only costs 3cmc while the others are 4cmc. Cuz blue needs better cards, just cuz.

[TsumiBand]

It's really crappy that the blue enchantment/not creature card only costs 3cmc while the others are 4cmc. Cuz blue needs better cards, just cuz.

So, playing devil's advocate for a second -- it is actually the runt of the litter, at 5/5. I don't think the others really could come down much; the Black god with Night's Whisper on a stick could probably never cost 2B. Oddly, the Black one draws cards a lot more easily than the Blue one; you have to have Blue God + Bident to start drawing cards.

I mean scry 1 every upkeep will be cool and all especially with SDT, but compared against the other Gods I think it's probably fine.

[TsumiBand]

MaRo is often more specious or self-aggrandizing in his writings than anything else. Paying too much attention will only irritate you.

Yeah, well... yeah.

[Darkenslight]

Half of the set spoilered ... only Legacy entry so far is Ashen Rider for Reanimator/Show&Tell, or did I miss something?

Hero's Downfall - a :1::b::b: instant that kills a creature or PW. Purely sideboard tech, but hey.