Gruul Aggro

[flrn]

I played Naya Blitz in the last Standard PTQ season and therefor experienced, how broken of a card Burning-Tree Emissary is. I knew that he already had a home in a modern deck and since a lot of people around me are actually playing Legacy, I thought to myself, why don't you try this guy out. So when my friends met up to playtest Legacy, I joined them and tried it out. After a couple of tests, I ended up with a list, I was ready to bring to a local six round tournament. This are the 75 cards I registered:

4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt

3 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
4 Taiga
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Path to Exile
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Oblivion Ring

Wild Nacatl and Experiment One are simply 3/3 creatures for one mana. You have to have them in your deck to constantly get explosive starts. Goblin Guide and Tarmogoyf are pretty self-explanatory in this kinda strategy. Burning-Tree Emissary allows to get three to four creatures on the board turn two, which is pretty insane, given the current metagame. Flinthoof Boar is actually pretty decent. People are not expecting this creature and when they saw them in earlier games, they always have to fear the three power haste guy, which could come along. He is a cc2 creature, which is great for Burning-Tree Emissary or just laying him out with two lands in play, because getting to three lands does not always work. Vexing Devil is pretty decent in this strategy. Since it comes into play, before the opponent gets to decide wether or not he takes four damage, the Devil evolves Experiment One, which can make the Experiment a 4/4. Also, against decks with white creature removal, you're not always getting a creature into the graveyard for your Tarmogoyf. Vexing Devil helps there out too. And if for some reason, the opponent decides, not to take four damage, you have a pretty good beater for just a single red mana. Kird Ape is kinda the best of the rest. Due to him being a 2/3, he helps out making Experiment One a 3/3 on turn two. I started out with two of them in my first draw of the deck and went up to four.

So why would you play this pile of crap? Because it is currently well positioned within the european metagame. There are not many people playing storm combo or UW Miracle. The metagame mostly consists of fair creature decks like Jund, Canadian Threshold, Deathblade, Elves or Death'n Taxes. Against these decks, you are well positioned with a creature heavy aggressive strategy. Their creatures are small and die to Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning with the exception of Tarmogyf. Because everything dies to three damage, our creatures are at least as large as any other creature in the current metagame, except for Tarmogoyf. With this aggressive strategy, we force our opponents to either jump block, do bad trades or trade one fore one. But we don't mind trading one for one, because we are overloading the board with creatures anyway. The ten burn spells are the ten best ones for this archetype. Yes, I tried Price of Progress. It was an additional burn spell in the deck, when I tested it. I felt, like I needed more creatures. Therefor it got cut. It sadly can't compete with Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning or Fireblast, because it can't target creatures. It makes us less flexible. And that kinda sucks.

As I already stated, I took this to a tournament and this is the reason, why I started this thread. I had so much fun, that I actually started working on the list. 34 people attended and I ended up in seventh place with a 4-2 record, due to good breakers. I beat Deathblade, Goblins, Elves and TES. I lost to Canadian Threshold and UW Miracles. Video Features of the tournament:

Round 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLXXuvJVm_k
Round 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HX0GI7bGYU

So after some further testing, we came to some conclusions. First of all Deathrite Shaman has to be killed immediatly. Always. You never want them to be able to ramp up. The lifegain are just the icing on the cake for the opponent in the matchup, but what's really problematic is the ability to ramp. Secondly, in the european scene Canadian Threshold pilots are using Stifle to try and manascrew their opponents. Getting a fetchland stifled is pretty bad for us, because we are mostly playing with two to three lands in play (so we can get more creatures on the board). In comparison to Wasteland, they don't even lose any tempo, because they get to keept their land around/don't need to waste a landdrop to try and screw us. Therefor, we thought about cutting fetchlands. But even with less fetchlands, we still feed opposing Deathrite Shaman's, if we don't have the removal for it. So we developed a manabase without fetchlands:

4 Plateau
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Savannah
4 Stomping Ground
4 Taiga

The old manabase (fetchlands count for all three colours) had 14 green, 16 red and 12 white sources. The new one has 11 green, 15 red and 10 white sources. This is a bit worse in comparison to before, but we feel like the upside is good enough to try it out. The additional damage mostly doesn't matter, because we should be the aggressor in most of our matchups. Additionaly, Red Elemental Blasts suck in the board. I added a third Path to Exile for the tempo matchups, to get rid of Tarmogoyf and two Sulfuric Vortex as a lategame card against decks, that can stall us out or remove our board (like UW Miracle, Enchantress or UB Tezzeret). This leaves me with one free slot for a 'bullet'. Currently I would play Electrickery in this slot. It is great against Lingering Souls, Elves and Death'n Taxes. As of now, this is my current list:

4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt

4 Plateau
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Savannah
4 Stomping Ground
4 Taiga

Sideboard:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Electrickery
3 Path to Exile
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Sulfuric Vortex

I can only recommend you to try this out and not to underestimate the amount of damage the deck can deal in the shortest amount of time. I had numerous turn three kills with it.

(Sorry for my bad english.)

[catmint]

Nice to see someone wants to revive aggro. I suggest you delete this thread and add your input to the existing Zoo thread.

[flrn]

Nice to see someone wants to revive aggro. I suggest you delete this thread and add your input to the existing Zoo thread.

I think, this is pretty different from the stuff, we used to see come out as Zoo. Therefor I decided to start a new thread.

[catmint]

It is indeed different. However Zoo is dead currently and if what you created works this will what Zoo develops in and other former zoo players will adapt their lists and play this. Maybe other elements of the old zoo will find a place in your deck once tuned.

The colors, the strategy and a vast majority of the spells are the same. You tune a little bit and include new toys - does not make it a new deck. Also in the interest of the quality of the forum the thread count should be kept low, but the quality of existing/established threads should be improved. Your content does provide some decent content so maybe you attract more people by posting in a very established thread with 220 pages instead of opening one with a Deck Name which will make sure most people won't take you seriously. :wink:

[flrn]

Done. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25707-Primer-Deck-Zoo&p=742377&viewfull=1#post742377)

[flrn]

Since the people in the Zoo thread didn't seem interested in this approach of the deck, I'm gonna post in here again.

I used the second version of the deck in a local 16 player tournament and ended up going 4-0, winning the thing. But what does this mean for this thread? Well for once, the shockdual / dual manabase seems stable enough to support the deck. It's still explosive as hell and that's a thing not many decks do right now.

MVP was Flinthoaf Boar once again.

Would love some feedback from people, who actually tried this out, rather than people telling me this sucks, because it plays no fetchlands.

[Asthereal]

Let me throw in a few ideas:

1. Stifle alone cannot be enough reason to wreck a perfectly fine fetch base, in my not very humble opinion. Yes, you will encounter Canadian Thresh and American Delver every now and then, but that's just two decks in a meta full of randomness. Unless your local store tourney meta consist of 50% those two decks, I would just stick to the base that will be most stable against most matchups. Let's not forget that Wasteland is run by much more lists than Stifle. Fetch into basics will often prove necessary, and even against decks with Stifle you can often play around them.

2. Let me first state that I really like your idea of using Flinthoof Boar. I had never thought of that guy. But... I feel that the Boar isn't good enough to play the full set. If you draw multiple copies in your opener, it will slow you down significantly. I suggest you go back to three.

3. The list requires three colours (white for Wild Nacatl and sideboard cards). I feel this interferes with the use of Fireblast. If you want to have Fireblast as an option, you must fetch Duals. Those get Wasted, leaving you are low on mana and unwilling to fire Fireblast. I know it's a great finisher, but I feel the risk is somewhat high in Legacy. You mentioned wanting to always immidiately kill Deathrite Shaman. Perhaps you could switch to Forked Bolt instead. Forked Bolt kills most relevant guys in Legacy, and could even 2-for-1 a few. Let's make a list of relevant guys:

These all die to Forked Bolt:
- Delver of Secrets (both versions)
- Deathrite Shaman
- Mother of Runes
- Noble Hierarch
- Dryad Arbor
- almost all of the creatures in the Elves deck
- all Merfolk (if you are fast enough)
- Dark Confidant
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Snapcaster Mage
- Vendilion Clique
- Bloodbraid Elf
- Lingering Souls tokens

Feel free to add more if you like. And Forked Bolt can still be used to ping off the last points of life an opponent might have. I feel it is much more widely useable than Fireblast.

4. I miss Grim Lavamancer. I'm not saying he is mandatory, but I think that guy is way too good to not at least seriously test. Care to elaborate why you left him out?

[Tao]

Since the people in the Zoo thread didn't seem interested in this approach of the deck, I'm gonna post in here again.

I used the second version of the deck in a local 16 player tournament and ended up going 4-0, winning the thing. But what does this mean for this thread? Well for once, the shockdual / dual manabase seems stable enough to support the deck. It's still explosive as hell and that's a thing not many decks do right now.

MVP was Flinthoaf Boar once again.

Would love some feedback from people, who actually tried this out, rather than people telling me this sucks, because it plays no fetchlands.

It doesn't suck because it doesn't play fetchlands, but it is worse than what it could be. Replacing 10 of the Duals with 10 Fetchlands will give you 10 additional colored sources. For a deck that wants 3 colors on turn 2 I don't know what else you expect to be said about this.

I still think that the deck wants GSZ but I was wrong about the card that should be cut. Cut Kird Ape. He is only your 3rd-4th 1-drop anyway. Experiment One and Nacatl are always better and sometimes you want Guide over him. GSZ will be a better 1-drop when you have many 2-drop spells and little mana. And as soon as you have one extra mana to spare it is a 3/3 (Nacatl) instead of a 2/3. With 2 extra Mana it is a 4/5. Post board you will be glad to have 5 copies of Gaddock Teeg and Qasali Pridemage in the deck for just 2 SB slots.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I played some speed Zoo relatively recently and has some mediocre results with it. The Zoo thread wasn't interested in my list, so I'll post it here as it shares some things in common with this deck.

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Vexing Devil
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
1 Fireblast
2 Boros Charm

3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa

My meta was unfortunately quite hostile to this list, with multiple Miracles players and a lot of combo at the time. My results against fair decks were generally pretty good, and I was able to race combo occasionally. I did not experiment with Burning-Tree Emissary although the results y'all have gotten speak for themselves. The one big drawback of my list is that it is difficult to play Thalia due to the high amount of burn spells. Boros Charm and POP are both insane though. Ghor-Clan Rampager is a huge blowout in creature combat, and I actually won a game against BURG tempo by hard-casting it (bigger than Mongeese lol). I am currently playing midrange decks because my meta is full of tempo and midrange strategies, but I might come back to this if I can pick up some foreign Burning-Trees. I'm not sure how I feel about the no-fetch manabase - I have never tried it so I'm instinctively suspicious there, but it might work.

EDIT: My list originally had Kird Ape over Lavamancer. However, Ape was very mediocre, and after getting shit on by Deathrite Shaman I added Lavamancer (who has a license to kill Deathrites).

[Megadeus]

I have Goyfs for the week and that list looks dope... I like BTE emmissary in these sorts of lists. Why don't you play him?

[thefreakaccident]

I've been running lists similar to these you have in this thread, except for a a few key differences.

1. I have a primary focus on 1cmc critters, and

2. Proclamation of rebirth

Proclamation is sick nasty in experiment zoo nowadays, nabbing 3 overpowered beaters, reusing devils/etc.
The card is very powerful with enough threat density at 1 cmc. It plus experiment one actually makes spark elemental playable. (Turn one experiment one, turn two guide+spark elemental, swing 8).

Bringing back multiple guides/elementals on a newly swept board can end the game right after they think they've stabilized. It can also just forgo the 'big burn' and go for a board reset of 3/3s/ 4/3s.

EDIT: You should only ever play price of progress if you yourself have little to no nonbasics, which is difficult to maintain in an aggressive 3c deck.

[Richard Cheese]

Has anyone tested Talara's Battalion in a list like this? Seems like a crappy topdeck, but it seems like with this deck the game should mostly be decided by the time you dump your hand. If you had more tramplers, you could even get real old school and rock some Varchild's War-Riders.

Also, anyone notice this list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59841) winning the Standard open this weekend? More oriented towards ramping out big dudes, but it reminded me of this deck...and of 1997.

[SpeedOfDark]

Cool deck. I like that you are able to capitalize on flinthoof boar's 2 modes, both of which are decent:
2 mana 3/3
3 mana 3/3 haste

Also liking the experiment one. Definite fit for a deck like this.

Suggestions:

1. Fetchlands. I feel like you lose more by omiting them then you gain. Especially when 4 of your creatures have specific land-based requirements to get bigger (goyf, ape, boar, nacatl).

2. 1-3 late game cards. I understand that like zoo or burn, your deck is intended to dump its hand and hit hard and fast, however sometimes you will run out of gas. When you do, you would rather have at least 1 card in your top 15 or so that can help drag you to the finish line, even if it is a slower card, by casting it as your last spell. Technically your reach can do this, but it will only usually help if the opponent is at 3 life or less. I'm thinking 2 sylvan library is a good fit for your deck. If you would rather stay in creature/burn territory, something like 2 scavenging ooze could fill a similar role. If you play ooze last, you can spend your mana on him if you don't draw more gas and presumably they will not have any removal left after your first onslaught, so he could potentially take over the game.

edit: Domri Rade might also fit the role of 1-2 late game cards since you are so creature dense, but I think I prefer sylvan library.