[Deck] Stormchantress

[Dihensoeur]

INTRODUCTION

After tested many version of Enchantress (GW, GWu, GWr, Helm ...), I couldn't find the solution that I liked.
Then I discovered the UG version (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25035-U-G-Enchantress) that I found interesting.

But Stormchantress is not at all like UG Enchantress but inspired from it. I will explain you first a little introduction of UG Enchantress to show fundaments that inspire me for Stormchantress. Then what's new.

I Little introduction of UG Enchantress

1 Cards

Words of Wind: The main kill of the deck. It's not the most popular words from Enchantress (like Words of war) but can do many things with a good installation. The main goal is to send back the opponent's board without remove our board and so lock him. But the card can do some interactions too, like return back an enchantment to replay it to draw or return back creatures with good effect (Cloud of Faeries or Eternal Witness).
For me, it's not a real kill, it needs to have an important installation and so it's slow and frangible.

Cloud of Faeries: It allows to untap 2 lands and Enchantress can make lot of mana on 2 lands with enchant lands. So the card is very good to have lot of mana and can be get back by Words of wind and so make infinite mana. But it's not all, it can be recycled to draw (and so can trigger Words of wind in a bad situation to restart the engine) and can block.
For me, to have infinite mana with Words of wind, we need to have at least 3GU on 2 lands + 2 Argothian Enchantress/Enchantress's Presence + 1 Cloud of Faeries + 1 enchantment that cost G in hand. It's very difficult to have all of them in a meta with counter spell, discard and Abrupt Decay.

Seal of Removal: Allow to send back opponent's creature (like delver). But it's mainly used to return back Cloud of Faeries and Eternal Witness. (It can send back Emrakul under show&tell too!). So a very good card.

2 Personal conclusion

For me, the deck kill only with Words of wind (if the opponent want to give up or by attack with Faeries) or by Living wish on Emrakul and all of them can be easily managed even if the deck can try to get back them by Eternal Witness. Moreover, it keeps the same defaults from classical Enchantress: weakness VS management of Argothian/Presence (by Liliana by example) and takes lot of damage before enable to maybe win.
Some lists play Emrakul Maindeck (I agree and I do the same).

But I found the principle good and suggest another way to exploit them.

II What's new?

1 Cards

Cloudstone Curio: If Cloud of Faeries is used to make lot of mana, why not push the concept? Curio allows to do it.
With only 1 enchant land and 2 Cloud of Faeries we have infinite mana and so with only one Argothian Enchantress/Enchantress's Presence => infinite draw and so win (explained after). But Curio allows to do more than only make infinite mana, it allows to return back enchantment too for free. You can consult a list of combo at the end of this topic in annexe. This card allows us to have infinite mana very faster than Words of wind and can do lot of things when we look the list of combo.

Abundant Growth: This card was tested in classical enchantress but without success. In this version, it allows us to make the deck very constant. No Argothian Enchantress/Enchantress's Presence (discarded, countered, destroyed...) ? but a curio in the battelfield ? Ok you can draw any card you want for one Green mana by card (you put an Abundant Growth and get back another etc... or an enchant land that you put in untap land then get back Abundant Growth and go...). And under infinite mana => Win.
This card can work with Words of wind by return back itself via the draw trigger

Wall of Blossoms: Enchantress.decks are weakness vs Liliana and take lot of damage before win (often too damage and lose).Wall of Blossoms gives us an excellent wall (so tempo), a creature to be sac under Liliana, gives us CA and combo with Cloudstone Curio to have infinite draw and so win, what do we need more?!

Serra's Sanctum: It's a non basic land and gives White mana yes. But gives us lot of mana and we have Cloud of Faeries and Emrakul.

Tendrils of Agony: We can play many spell in one turn and more by Cloud of Faeries even some infinite loops via Cloudstone Curio. Mmmh, it looks like storm no? Yes, an efficient way to win. 2 black mana are very easily to have: Abundant Growth or Utopia Sprawl that moving on another forest to change the color. We don't need to be in infinite mode to use Tendrils, we need only 7,8 spells to deals 16-18 (enough because opponents use fetch), and 8spells is easily when you can move enchant land from tap land to an untap land to get lot of mana. You can use Tendrils with less storm to get time in a critical situation (deals 8-10 and gain 8-10 life is very good :D) then get back the spell by Eternal Witness to win.
For me, I prefer this way to win because the kill is uncounterable and kill in one turn, these points are very important for me.

We have still Emrakul that is uncounterable too and generally kill in one turn (and we can do infinite turn with it for obstinate opponents). It can be cast very easily by Cloud of Faeries.

Extinction of Words of wind: Kept for long time as an alternative of Cloudstone Curio, my personal tests and tests from friends show us that the card is finally useless in this version.
We found it too slow, too expensive to use it and inefficient vs actual meta.

2 Personal conclusion

The deck is regular and can kill starting from T2 (generally T4-T5 but sometimes T2-T3). Yes it's surely the slowest combo deck of the actual meta but has some way to gain time and still efficient vs all no-combo.decks. Moreover we have 15 slots in sideboard to win vs combo :cool:.

III The side

It's maybe the most difficult part of a deck. I will show you my sideboard and some cards from others sideboards that are in testing. Any new ideas will be welcome.

Gaddock Teeg: Good vs combo, stop FoW, Jace, E.E.... and not inconvenient for us (we can still send back it to kill with Tendrils and we have Emrakul).

Leyline of Sanctity: Protect us from planeswalkers, combo, discard, burn...

Harmonic Sliver: To destroy artefact (Ethersworn Canonist) but mainly enchantment like Seak attack or Omniscience. Via Cloudstone Curio we can repeat the effect infinite time.

Seal of Primordium: Like for Harmonic but to keep a number of enchantment cards in the deck. It still efficient vs countertop.deck and MUD.

Flusterstorm: To be efficient vs combo.deck.

Grafdigger's Cage: vs ANT/Elves and vs Dredge/Rea that we can meet sometimes.

Totem maudit: vs Elves/D&T/Maverick/Dark Maverick. Maybe vs Grisel.deck too.

From friends:

Venser, Shaper Savant: vs all, show&tell.deck, control.deck. Via Curio we can send back the opponent's board.


IV Match-up

TempoThresh (Good): It can stifle many thing but it stills weak vs Elephant Grass and Seal of removal. Wall of blossoms works very well to stop Tarmogoyf and Nimble Mongoose.

EsperBlade(Good): It's slow, Batterskull is black and so Elephant Grass stop it (or we can use a Seal of removal in a bad situation). It's easy to start combo.

Shardless BUG (Good): Deathrite Shaman has few target in our graveyard...so useless. Again Wall of blossoms stops easily Tarmo/Shardless. Abrupt Decay has too many target and so it will not fatal for us. We have Leyline to be protected from discard and planeswalker in game2/3.

DeathBlade (Good): Like EsperBlade, it is slow and Shaman has no target so few efficient.

Jund (Good): It has no counter spell so it's very good for us. Again, our wall stops Bloodbraid Elf. After side, Leyline protect us from mass discard.

Miracle (Good): It is slow but has many counter spell. We will need to play around Counter balance (but play an enchantment make us draw even the enchantment is countered ^^). After side, Gaddock protect us from E.E, jace.... and Harmonic sliver + Seal of primordium vs Counter balance.

For combo deck, the first game is winnable only if we go combo before the opponent (but it's not often the case).

Omniclash (not good): Maybe Gaddock + Flusterstorm are enough to win.

ANT (not good): Maybe cage, Gaddock, Leyline and flusterstorm can do something.

Elves (not good): Maybe Gaddock, Cursed totem and flusterstorm allow us to win.

SneakShow (not good): We can put Emrakul/Seal of removal under show&tell but we still weak vs Sneak. Gaddock, seal of primordium, harmonic sliver and flusterstorm allow us often to win.

V Conclusion

Stormchantress is promising. It's not a brainless.deck and have a lot of tricks that make it very constant and don't have the weakness from others Enchantress versions. It's efficient vs lot of deck of the actual meta even combo.deck are not its best friends (like some DTB).

ANNEXE: Combo with Cloudstone Curio:

1 Fetch + 1 Serra's sanctum => Sanctum effect x2.

2 Abundant Growth => G: Draw.

1 Argothian Enchantress/Enchantress's Presence + X Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl => We can move enchant land from tap land to an untap land to economize many mana and so draw many cards.

2 Cloud of Faeries + 1 Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl => Infinite mana.

1 Cloud of Faeries + any creature with an effect + (1U + CCM of the creature) manas on 2 lands => Infinite effect of the creature (infinite draw with Wall of blossoms, get back all cards with Eternal Witness...).

Same with one additionnal mana => + infinite mana.

2 Cloud of Faeries + Eternal Witness + at least 1GU manas on 2 lands => Infinite mana + infinite draw by recycling faeries and get back with Witness.

My list

Maindeck

1 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
8 Forest

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Cloudstone Curio
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

1 Eternal Witness
2 City of Solitude
4 Elephant Grass
4 Seal of Removal

3 Wall of Blossoms
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Abundant Growth

Sideboard

1 Cursed Totem
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline of Sanctity


Constructive opinions are welcome.

Thanks.

[Mr. Froggy]

There's a thread in Established very close to this I think, check out UG Enchantress.

[Dihensoeur]

There's a thread in Established very close to this I think, check out UG Enchantress.
Like as said, it's not at all like UG Enchantress thread, many cards are similar yes, but the goal, the strategies, the speed are different.

You won't tell to a Shardless BUG player "you should go to Team America thread".

You can try to play UG Enchantress then Stormchantress and you will see the different.

[ESG]

Stormchantress is promising. It's not a brainless.deck and have a lot of tricks that make it very constant and don't have the weakness from others Enchantress versions.

The deck has more tricks than traditional Enchantress builds, but this mana base is considerably more fragile. There also are lots of conditional cards in this deck compared to traditional builds. I like the initiative, but I feel it's misleading to claim this deck is all upside.

[Dihensoeur]

The deck has more tricks than traditional Enchantress builds, but this mana base is considerably more fragile. There also are lots of conditional cards in this deck compared to traditional builds. I like the initiative, but I feel it's misleading to claim this deck is all upside.

Can you please explain more about your opinion?




this mana base is considerably more fragile

Only 3 non-basics lands. 17 lands is completely enough and allow us to mull without problem.
If you check traditional Enchantress builds (the Startcity games by example), you see generally more than 3 nonbasics lands.
If it's the number of lands that trouble you, the curve is less than traditional enchantress and allow us to play less lands than them without problem.
We are actually 3-4 players which play the deck without having any problem with mana base.



There also are lots of conditional cards in this deck compared to traditional builds


Can you explain please with examples and arguments please? In this way we can have a real discussion, I will understand your opinion and I explain you my point.
Because this deck has built, particularly in the goal to be not conditional like traditional Enchantress builds. If any key cards are removed, there is always another plan to win easily.

You should try the deck to make you your own opinion.

[Freggle]

Dihensoeur nice to see you still enchantress brewing. This deck shows a great deal of potential!

The most exciting thing I see is this version can be the best suited to fight combo since everything can be cast under Gaddock Teeg outside of your Tendrils of Agony win.

I was going to build this on Magic Online last night but I got a bit appalled to see that Cloud of Fairies was $10 a piece. I have these cards in paper so I try it there, but there are some things I'd like to address now.

To your list:

Why no Green Sun's Zenith? I know you have to make cuts to fit in everything you did, but Green Sun's gives the deck quite a bit of flexibility (like tutoring up a Teeg for the proper match-ups.

I like the old school tech of Wall of Blossoms. I was thinking of trying it in GW Helm, but couldn't figure out the cuts.

Why Tenrils? Isn't Emrakul just better all around?

Since you go infinite pretty easily have you considered Eye of Ugin?

On the same topic no Karakas to go infinite (in turns)?

I see there are only 17 lands (again I assume to cram it all) that seems to light for Leyline of Sanctity even with Spawls and growths.

Have you considered Helix Pinnacle? ...since you can (potentially) go infinite in turns and with mana it's a solid I win card in the strange event that Enchantress confinement locks you and get Sigarda out. This also all still works under Teeg and gives you an additional enchantment over Tendrils

City of Solitude - In all my days of playing Enchantress this should almost always be Choke as it severely hinders the player regardless of counter magic or not. It's good against things like High tide or Bug for example especially in conjunction with Elephant Grass. Might even be better as a Blood Moon in your build.

Overall, again this is exciting stuff. Hopefully what I wrote is helpful. I know you have been working on this for months.

[Slag]

The deck can use Seal of Removal to bounce Emrakul for infinite turns. Using Karakas to get around Teeg and other hate-creatures is something good to consider, though. I was recently locked out of the game with an Iona naming blue while playing traditional ug enchantress comboat a local tournament.

You make a good point about choke, and I've never been disappointed with maindeck blue hate in enchantress, but City will also protect Cloud from removal during the combo.

[Freggle]

The deck can use Seal of Removal to bounce Emrakul for infinite turns.

Actually, the way to go infinate is to bounce Emrakul with another creature with Curio out. With Seal since you sacrifice I don't think you can go "infinate." Karakas is just good to have though like you mentioned.


You make a good point about choke, and I've never been disappointed with maindeck blue hate in enchantress, but City will also protect Cloud from removal during the combo.

Control does not have the luxury to wait to counter the combo pieces. If they do that usually will mean that we have stuck enchantress effects and we will overload their counter wall and present more than one Cloud in any one given turn. Or follow-up a spicy counter with a Choke Overall I have played both and in over 80% of the scenarios you come across in a total match Choke will win you more matches than city. Even in combo-chantress where you have more than 1 copy of combo pieces.

Edit: ...and Witness (and possibly Green Sun's) to get back the pieces that do get countered.

[Megadeus]

City does help you against Abrupt Decay decks though which may be relevant.

[KazinMtg]

Seems fine. The only glaring thing I see the deck lacking is GSZ. Essentially having enchantresses #9-12 is a big deal, and should add considerably to the consistency of the deck.

Other than that, seems like an interesting brew and I wish you luck sir!

[Michael Keller]

How about using cards like Cadaverous Bloom and Oath of Lim-Dul as an engine? You basically just play out your enchantments, draw cards and cycle through your entire deck.

Eventually, you just play out a Tendrils or hard-cast an Emrakul.

[Freggle]

I gotta say this is pretty fun:

Creatures (13)
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness

Artifacts (4)
4 Cloudstone Curio

Enchantments (20)
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Abundant Growth
3 Seal of Removal
1 Helix Pinnacle

Sorceries (3)
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands (20)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
7 Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Karakas
1 Serra's Sanctum

Dihensoeur, You're on to something here.

[Dihensoeur]

Thanks all for your points!



The most exciting thing I see is this version can be the best suited to fight combo since everything can be cast under Gaddock Teeg outside of your Tendrils of Agony win.

We can easily bounce Gaddock by Curio/Seal to kill with Tendrils if you want.



Why no Green Sun's Zenith? I know you have to make cuts to fit in everything you did, but Green Sun's gives the deck quite a bit of flexibility (like tutoring up a Teeg for the proper match-ups.


Seems fine. The only glaring thing I see the deck lacking is GSZ. Essentially having enchantresses #9-12 is a big deal, and should add considerably to the consistency of the deck.

Other than that, seems like an interesting brew and I wish you luck sir!
My first version was with x3 GSZ before discover Wall of Blossoms. After some games, I found GSZ not very good because:
- GSZ doesn't give CA (because GSZ go to the deck)
- By GSZ we are still dependent of Argothian engine that is a weakness of Enchantress and I don't want anymore the Enchantress weakness.
- I found that I took too damage from opponent's creatures.

After I dicovered Wall of Blossoms and I found it very powerful. I replaced all GSZ by them because it's a very good wall that will take removal so we need to have it in many copy and put it T2 VS Tarmogoyf with CA is very good :smile:. Moreover we can sac it under Liliana to keep Argothian with CA!
Some of friends want to keep GSZ and I can understand them (principaly to tutor Witness). I like play the deck without GSZ because I believe in the draw engine to have all cards that I want. But I won't prohibit any player which want to play the deck with GSZ ! Absolute not!



Why Tenrils? Isn't Emrakul just better all around?

For me, any combo deck must have at least 2 way for win. In preference one by the battlefield, and one direct.
Moreover, Tendrils can give you time by storm 4-5 spells and that cost less than Emrakul (5 spells that cost 1 + 4 for tendrils = 9 manas < 15 :cool:).



Since you go infinite pretty easily have you considered Eye of Ugin?
On the same topic no Karakas to go infinite (in turns)?
Have you considered Helix Pinnacle? ...since you can (potentially) go infinite in turns and with mana it's a solid I win card in the strange event that Enchantress confinement locks you and get Sigarda out. This also all still works under Teeg and gives you an additional enchantment over Tendrils

The deck can get infinite by many way but, to be very constant, we mustn't to believe entirely on it! That's why we don't want to play some cards that work only in infinite mode.
Moreover, we want a real kill, I mean, a kill that give you the victory in the turn without give any chance to the opponent (and uncounterable). Pinnacle need to be in infinite mode + wait a turn + is counterable.
Emrakul on the battlefield with an extra turn is generally enough to win, otherwise you can bounce it with Curio/Seal to repeat the process.



I see there are only 17 lands (again I assume to cram it all) that seems to light for Leyline of Sanctity even with Spawls and growths.

No, because you can untap land with faeries. By example, I have 2 forest, one with utopia on blue, and one Abundant Growth on the other.
I full tap and take GUW (white from Abundant), I put faeries with GU, untap and tap to get GUWW and so put Leyline of Sanctity without problem.
Moreover, we play Serra's sanctum too.



City of Solitude - In all my days of playing Enchantress this should almost always be Choke as it severely hinders the player regardless of counter magic or not. It's good against things like High tide or Bug for example especially in conjunction with Elephant Grass. Might even be better as a Blood Moon in your build.

City of Solitude VS Choke: it's a difficult choice. Someone want absolutly City, someone want absolutly Choke.
I prefer for the moment City because I want to play peacefully. Opponents can play lot of cards to disturb our engine (stifle on faeries, removal cards, counterspell...) and so we lose some turn. If you play Choke, depending of the opponent's deck, he can turn around it by Deathrite Shaman, but City = "you have to counter it otherwise I will win!".



Overall, again this is exciting stuff. Hopefully what I wrote is helpful. I know you have been working on this for months.

Thanks, yes I'm working on it for months. And I believe very much on it. More I play the deck, more I convince players to play it because they see the potential and the fun to play Stormchantress.


How about using cards like Cadaverous Bloom and Oath of Lim-Dul as an engine? You basically just play out your enchantments, draw cards and cycle through your entire deck.
Eventually, you just play out a Tendrils or hard-cast an Emrakul.
Cadaverous Bloom is a good idea that a friend told me recently. I will test it in x1. It seems an excellent idea because we can win directly with it on the battlefield. We don't need Oath of Lim-Dul, Cadaverous will work perfectly alone with the draw engine of the deck.
Thanks to think about this idea! You reinforce my desire to test it :smile::smile:!


I gotta say this is pretty fun:

Creatures (13)
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness

Artifacts (4)
4 Cloudstone Curio

Enchantments (20)
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Abundant Growth
3 Seal of Removal
1 Helix Pinnacle

Sorceries (3)
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands (20)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
7 Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Karakas
1 Serra's Sanctum

Dihensoeur, You're on to something here.
I think you don't need Karakas, this version doesn't care opponent's Gaddock Teeg or Thalia. And it's dangerous to have too nonbasics lands.
I don't suggest you Pinnacle for reasons that I said above.


For information: a friend will test Brainstorm in this deck.

Thanks all again, it's been pleasure to read you :smile:!
I hope that you will take fun to play the deck !

[ESG]

Can you please explain more about your opinion?

Sorry, I misspoke when I said "manabase." I was focusing on the four colors you're trying to generate and the fact that a good number of this deck's cards can form awkward hands. For example, going into a match blind, would you keep a hand of 1 City of Solitude, 2 land, 1 Elephant Grass, 1 Seal of Removal, 1 Cloudstone Curio, and 1 Utopia Sprawl? Doesn't that hand become perilous if you don't get your Cloudstone Curio onto the battlefield? This deck is merging two forms of engines, but that isn't necessarily better than running one engine. I don't want to get into a debate about one being superior to the other, because I feel that both can have a place, but surely a disadvantage of this build is the number of clunky hands that contain potential combo pieces that don't profit unless you have the other piece. You have an Enchantress engine and a bunch of non-enchantments. Cloudstone Curio can do some amazing things, but the deck still faces the same obstacles, like discard and Force of Will, so going off with Cloudstone Curio is not a given.

You don't run Green Sun's Zenith, so you are heavily dependent on drawing Utopia Sprawl or Abundant Growth to produce colors outside of green. Leyline of Sanctity looks really rough. How far are you willing to mull down to find it? And if you don't find it and are stuck on, say, five cards, isn't it a terribly dead draw at that point? Likewise, Tendrils does nothing for you until you generate a bunch of storm and can generate BB, at which point you could probably play Grapeshot or anything else; whereas, with a traditional build, a win condition like Sigil of the Empty Throne does not require a combo finish. As you said, the two builds have different game plans in mind, so I'm not saying you need to run Sigil.

Traditional Enchantress builds usually are either aligned to the single purpose of getting the Enchantress engine going or focus on the engine while also utilizing a silver-bullet strategy. I am not trying to denigrate your build, but I felt your initial post was overly glowing. (As I said, "all upside.") It's very common for posters in the New and Developmental Decks section to overstate their build's merits while not mentioning the disadvantages. I'm saying there are pros and cons between this build and the traditional Enchantress build, just as there are with the one in the UG Enchantress thread in the Established section.

[Dihensoeur]

Thanks you for your details.


Sorry, I misspoke when I said "manabase." I was focusing on the four colors you're trying to generate and the fact that a good number of this deck's cards can form awkward hands. For example, going into a match blind, would you keep a hand of 1 City of Solitude, 2 land, 1 Elephant Grass, 1 Seal of Removal, 1 Cloudstone Curio, and 1 Utopia Sprawl? Doesn't that hand become perilous if you don't get your Cloudstone Curio onto the battlefield?

The number of awkward hands of this deck and of others enchantress deck is very difficult to estimate, mainly without test them, it's juste your feeling and I can understand that, but by experiment it's not the case. Opposed to traditional Enchantress, I don't need a hand with Argothian/Presence to keep it because I can draw lot of card without them. For your example, yes I will mull for this hand, like a traditional Enchantress will mull if it has no Argothian/presence in hand. It's not a problem to mull, the decision to mull is a very difficult decision for all decks in Magic.
I don't need absolutly Curio. I don't want to be dependent on a card. I can draw without Curio, I can make lot of mana without Curio (Faeries+Seal by example).
I can win without Curio via Tendrils or Emrakul. So it's not perilous if I don't get Curio or if Curio is exiled by Surgical.



This deck is merging two forms of engines, but that isn't necessarily better than running one engine. I don't want to get into a debate about one being superior to the other, because I feel that both can have a place, but surely a disadvantage of this build is the number of clunky hands that contain potential combo pieces that don't profit unless you have the other piece.

Like as explained, I'm not dependent of any card in the deck. Tell me which card is removed by Surgical and I will explain you the ways to win that the deck can do.



You have an Enchantress engine and a bunch of non-enchantments. Cloudstone Curio can do some amazing things, but the deck still faces the same obstacles, like discard and Force of Will, so going off with Cloudstone Curio is not a given.
You don't run Green Sun's Zenith, so you are heavily dependent on drawing Utopia Sprawl or Abundant Growth to produce colors outside of green. Leyline of Sanctity looks really rough. How far are you willing to mull down to find it? And if you don't find it and are stuck on, say, five cards, isn't it a terribly dead draw at that point? Likewise, Tendrils does nothing for you until you generate a bunch of storm and can generate BB, at which point you could probably play Grapeshot or anything else; whereas, with a traditional build, a win condition like Sigil of the Empty Throne does not require a combo finish. As you said, the two builds have different game plans in mind, so I'm not saying you need to run Sigil.

I understand you point, you say that because you have never tested the deck. You should try to see that your fears don't really exist.
I'm not dependent on Curio, I can draw even Argothian/Presence are managed, I can mull to 5 without problem of lands to get Leyline. I can easily play it like as explained in previous post.
For Tendrils, play 4-5 spells even 8 spells without Curio is not a problem at all! You have never play lot of spells in a turn with a Enchantress.deck ? Mostly that is very easier in this version. And for BB, it's easy with Utopia/Abundant and Faeries.
You need only 7-8 spells to win with Tendrils or less to gain life and so time. Grapeshot needs 20 spells! I already think about it and Brainfreeze too but Tendrils is the best.
About GSZ, I explained why.



Traditional Enchantress builds usually are either aligned to the single purpose of getting the Enchantress engine going or focus on the engine while also utilizing a silver-bullet strategy. I am not trying to denigrate your build, but I felt your initial post was overly glowing. (As I said, "all upside.") It's very common for posters in the New and Developmental Decks section to overstate their build's merits while not mentioning the disadvantages. I'm saying there are pros and cons between this build and the traditional Enchantress build, just as there are with the one in the UG Enchantress thread in the Established section.
I'm not coming here without experiment. I play the deck for months with friends that allow us to etablish MUs and some improving.

You should try the deck. If I convinced more and more people to play it, it's not by chance, it's because there is a very potential. I don't tell "my deck is perfect" (like someone in some threads....). I'm here in "New and Developmental decks" to share you my idea and search some ideas to improve the deck to DTB. The more we are to play the deck more the deck will be improved.

[Freggle]

Maybe I just like the degenerate parts of the deck but have you tried Aluren in here? ...that does some stupid stuff too.

Here was my brief testing pile:

4 Cloudstone Curio
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Wall of Blossoms
3 Wall of Omens
4 Aluren
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Abundant Growth
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
9 Forest
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
1 Tropical Island

Edit: With Cloudstone Curio & Aluren out this deck goes infinite in mana and card draw at instant speed. (Cloud of Faireies, and Wall of ...) So basically you draw the deck to Emrakul and take your turn swing bounce swing. With tuning this can be a real thing.

[KazinMtg]

Maybe I just like the degenerate parts of the deck but have you tried Aluren in here? ...that does some stupid stuff too.

Here was my brief testing pile:

4 Cloudstone Curio
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Wall of Blossoms
3 Wall of Omens
4 Aluren
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Abundant Growth
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
9 Forest
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
1 Tropical Island

I love this list! Aluren is always fun, and this seems like a cool way to do it without spending a fortune on recruiters. What do you think about -3 wall of omens +3 coiling oracle? I just love that card in aluren decks, and with the ton of mana fixers in here it seems like a good fit.

[Freggle]

I love this list! Aluren is always fun, and this seems like a cool way to do it without spending a fortune on recruiters. What do you think about -3 wall of omens +3 coiling oracle? I just love that card in aluren decks, and with the ton of mana fixers in here it seems like a good fit.

I'll try it out. It seems cool. This might also be a deck that can abuse the disruption / accelerator of Carpet of Flowers and Spreading Seas & Sea's Claim that worked well in the Spreading Illusions (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23437-Developmental-Spreading-Illusions-An-Enchantress-Variant&highlight=spreading) deck I tried a while ago.

[Dihensoeur]

Maybe I just like the degenerate parts of the deck but have you tried Aluren in here? ...that does some stupid stuff too.

Here was my brief testing pile:

4 Cloudstone Curio
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Wall of Blossoms
3 Wall of Omens
4 Aluren
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Abundant Growth
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
9 Forest
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
1 Tropical Island

Edit: With Cloudstone Curio & Aluren out this deck goes infinite in mana and card draw at instant speed. (Cloud of Faireies, and Wall of ...) So basically you draw the deck to Emrakul and take your turn swing bounce swing. With tuning this can be a real thing.

For me, we don't need Aluren. Don't forget that Aluren doesn't seem to work alone in your list. To keep stability, we need to not depend of any card. Try your list and tell me whats happens! More we are to test many way, more the deck will be improved.



I'll try it out. It seems cool. This might also be a deck that can abuse the disruption / accelerator of Carpet of Flowers and Spreading Seas & Sea's Claim that worked well in the Spreading Illusions (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23437-Developmental-Spreading-Illusions-An-Enchantress-Variant&highlight=spreading) deck I tried a while ago.

That could be very cool if we can find a way to increase the chance to combo T2!

[frodoberghins]

hi guys, what do you think about this list?

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [B] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
8 [P2] Forest (2)
1 [A] Bayou
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor

// Creatures
1 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

// Spells
2 [VI] City of Solitude
4 [VI] Elephant Grass
4 [NE] Seal of Removal
4 [AVR] Abundant Growth
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
4 [B] Wild Growth
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
3 [RAV] Cloudstone Curio
2 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [7E] Darkest Hour
SB: 4 [M11] Duress


a little Black splash, for 6 cards in side:

Darkest Hour: very good lock with Elephant grass, against aggro deck
Duress/thoughtseize: another card vs combo, our worst MU

[Dihensoeur]

hi guys, what do you think about this list?

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [B] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
8 [P2] Forest (2)
1 [A] Bayou
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor

// Creatures
1 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

// Spells
2 [VI] City of Solitude
4 [VI] Elephant Grass
4 [NE] Seal of Removal
4 [AVR] Abundant Growth
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
4 [B] Wild Growth
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
3 [RAV] Cloudstone Curio
2 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [7E] Darkest Hour
SB: 4 [M11] Duress


a little Black splash, for 6 cards in side:

Darkest Hour: very good lock with Elephant grass, against aggro deck
Duress/thoughtseize: another card vs combo, our worst MU

Darkest Hour works perfectly with Elephant Grass yes and so stop aggro decks but more important, stop Sneak&Show!
The problem can be that Darkest Hour does nothing alone, but I'm interesting by your tests about it!

Duress/thoughtseize: I tested these cards in solo mode in order to see the speed and efficience vs combo. My personal tests hadn't been good. But I'm not a pro player so maybe I'm wrong.

I just would like to suggest you:
- 2 Spell Pierce
+ 2 Flusterstorm because it's more effience vs counterspell/combo.

[frodoberghins]

Darkest Hour works perfectly with Elephant Grass yes and so stop aggro decks but more important, stop Sneak&Show!
The problem can be that Darkest Hour does nothing alone, but I'm interesting by your tests about it!

Duress/thoughtseize: I tested these cards in solo mode in order to see the speed and efficience vs combo. My personal tests hadn't been good. But I'm not a pro player so maybe I'm wrong.

I just would like to suggest you:
- 2 Spell Pierce
+ 2 Flusterstorm because it's more effience vs counterspell/combo.


mmm, maybe i prefere

-4 spell pierce
+4 thoughtseize

but with 10 black cards in side, we need 2 more fetchlands, to tutoring bayou in the first turn!

[Dihensoeur]

mmm, maybe i prefere

-4 spell pierce
+4 thoughtseize

but with 10 black cards in side, we need 2 more fetchlands, to tutoring bayou in the first turn!

Yes, you should play more fetchlands. I'm playing 6 fetchlands.


Note: I was thinking about Cadaverous Bloom, but it doesn't seem finally to be useful. Because it totally depends of Argothian enchantress/Enchantress's presence.

[Dihensoeur]

Hi all,

Some ideas from many people:

- Ancestral Knowledge:
In order to manage before/during combo. It can be useful to exile useless lands and/or to get a key card by searching it on top10 of our deck.
I'm actually test it x1 instead of one Elephant Grass.

- Coiling Oracle:
Works like Wall of blossoms in combo mode but puts untap lands. But it needs blue mana and doesn't block anything.

What is your opinion?

[Dihensoeur]

Little tournament to train myself and try new sideboard.


1 Bayou
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
8 Forest
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
3 Argothian Enchantress
3 Wall of Blossoms
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Cloudstone Curio
1 Ancestral Knowledge
2 City of Solitude
3 Elephant Grass
4 Abundant Growth
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Seal of Removal
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard:

1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Duress


Round 1: DeathBlade (1-2)

Game1: I go storm T4.

Side: +4 LL, +1 Gaddock

Game2: He mull to 5, I keep a bad hand (missplay): 2 seal of removal, 1 argothian and 4 lands (I thought that he removed discard cards to avoid LL). Bad idea, Thoughtseize T1 => Argothian out. I topdeck some LL and lands, he puts Jace and control me.

Game3: LL in start hand, I put quickly gaddock, I need only one blue mana to combo (Tropical island was destroyed) but I never see utopia or abundant and a Vendilion kill me.

0/1

Round 2: Big Red (2-0)

Game1: He mull to 5, put T1 Sandstone Needle, "What is this deck???", T2 he puts Ancient Tomb "ah ok it's big Red! A chance for me to test the new side!", with his lands and a spell he puts Inferno Titan (T2 wow!). I did a new missplay because I was a Seal of Removal and I didn't use it to bounce Titan. Finally I go combo with 1 life :).

Side: +4 Duress, +2 Gaddock, +1 Sliver

Game2: T1 Duress => Sneak Attack out (good :D ), he draws some lands, I draw many card via Wall and Curio until get a faerie => Win.

1/1

Round 3 Elves (0-2)

Game1: Elves! I never played vs a elves in a tournament so good training. Especially that my opponent is a pro player! I can go T4 but he goes T3 (normal).

Side: +4 Duress, +2 Gaddock, +1 Pernicious Deed

Game2: Duress, Gaddock and Pernicious in start hand => go! Duress T1 but he had 3,4 lands some elves and harmonic sliver. T2 faerie + Gaddock in order to counter GSZ/NO (but NO had been removed) and attack :D. T3 Pernicious to slow him. He plays Harmonic sliver to destroy Pernicious. He puts Nettle Sentinel, I thought that it's a key card for elves and so he will never use it to block Gaddock => Bad he blocks (ok I learned the lesson :D). I topdeck the second gaddock before he draws 2 GSZ :D. The game is slow, we don't draw that we want. He fall to 12 life. Finally he puts Elvish Archdruid and kill me.

1/2

Round 4: Jund (2-0)

Game 1: Bloodbraid Elf but Wall :D + Elephant Grass, T6-T7 I go storm.

Side: +4 LL

Game 2: LL in start hand and I put Emrakul T3

2/2

Round 5: CloudPost (2-0)

Game1: I put some Seal of removal to avoid him to use Show&Tell, I go combo wall+faerie T5.

Side: +Sliver, +4 Duress

Game2: Again some Seal for show&Tell, I discard him a Krosan Grip, I put Emrakul but he exiles it with Mindbreak trap (oh!). I go combo, put a City of solitude :D then tendrils.

3/2

In this little tournament, 3 wins = 3 theros boosters ^^.

Conclusion:
It was a good training for me. I still need to continue to train myself because I always do stupid missplays.
I can see that discard is very good vs combo but I need to have Thoughtseize to be more efficient vs elves.

[Mortox]

I was thinking of a similar idea with Cloudstone and Cloud of Faeries when I happened across this thread, very interesting deck ideas in here.

Another card that works well with most of the interactions here is Phantasmal Image which can come in as virtual copies of Argothian Enchantress and Cloud of Faeries. Even better if you decide to run Steely Resolve naming Faeries all of your creatures (minus Walls if you play them) have Shroud, but can still interact with Cloudstone and further copies of Phantasmal Image since neither "target" anything. The only thing this idea doesn't play nice with is Seal of Removal, as Phantasmal Image dies to it if targeted, and if you run Steely Resolve naming Faeries, none of your creatures can thereafter be targeted by Seal while the Steely Resolve remains in play.

That being said I personally like the idea of Phantasmal Image since it has dual-purpose here and can even copy opposing creatures in awkward situations; not ideal, but it can be useful.

With that said, I'd probably consider dropping the Seals if I were going this route, and perhaps even the walls as you would get a lot more redundancy with the Phantasmals which could free up a few slots. I'd like to see some variation of the deck that uses the core Enchantress elements but perhaps with a little more combo 'security' if it were possible to fit in countermagic/Silence or more copies of City of Solitude; or I was thinking even Dosan the Falling Leaf if you were running MD GSZ (which I probably wouldn't if I was running Phantasmal) so that you your opponent can't just sit back with a Flusterstorm or something like that in hand while you run down your clock and then just stop you dead.

I think the "core" list if I were going to try the Phantasmal route would be something like:

18 Lands
4 Abundant Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Phantasmal Image

3 Cloudstone Curio
2-3 Steely Resolve
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 alternate wincon (Helix Pinnacle/Tendrils of Agony)


Now that's 53-54 cards without any Walls or Seals of Removal; you could definitely make an argument for at least 4 Wall of Blossoms or 4 Wall of Omens for the Cloudstone synergy as well as the relevant defense they could offer before you combo off. You could also just run classic Enchantress cards like Elephant Grass to fill the defensive slot, or of course some kind of GSZ package with Eternal Witness and a variety of targets in the SB (Teeg, Pridemage, Harmonic Sliver, Kitchen Finks, Dosan, w/e.) Some sort of fancy wishboard is also possible with either Living Wish, Glittering Wish, or Cunning Wish depending on what you want to focus on. I think Living Wish (2-3?) could be cool with things like Teeg/Dosan/Karakas/Eternal Witness/Finks/Tabernacle/Bojuka Bog, etc. in the side to answer specific matchups.

I think one of the biggest issues with this concept (Enchantress version) from a competitive standpoint is that it's essentially a combo deck, but it's not an extremely fast combo, I mean you have to make it to at least T3-4 I'm guessing, and have a Cloud of Faeries in hand at that point, and have gotten a couple acceleration enchantments along the way, and even then you'll be somewhat reliant on your draws to get you there. So the point is that it's a slowish combo deck, that doesn't run much (any?) disruption/defense but instead relies on redundancy, which might be fine in a meta full of 'fair' decks that are trying to beat you down with Goyfs or Batterskulls or something, but when you're contending with OmniTell, Dredge, Reanimator, Tin Fins, ANT, TES, Painter, etc., and all you really have is MAYBE a set of Leyline of Sanctity in the board, I think it's unrealistic to expect to make it to T3-5 consistently. We could jam Leyline of the Void in the board as well, or perhaps Mindbreak Traps, but I feel like we'd be stretched thin and reliant on our opponents fumbling which isn't really a good strategy. These thoughts aren't based on playtesting mind you, I'm really just thinking out loud, so if results prove different than I'll eat my words but I just feel like the concept, as cool as it is, is too slow to contend with the other powerful combo decks that exist given the amount of hate we're packing, and the awkward part is that most hate doesn't even really 'fit' the deck, if you get my meaning.

I was also thinking about another sort of deck without the Enchantress element, using either Glimpse of Nature and/or Beck (Beck/Call) as the draw engine; cast one of them before you start chaining off with Curio/Faeries and you inevitably draw your entire deck; Beck is a 'may' trigger which is relevant, and is a blue card making a counter-heavy version a consideration with 4 MD FoW among other spells. Could also run Coiling Oracle in this version for additional draw power, perhaps even Brainstorms to set-up those free land-drops, as well as being another blue card. The major weakness with this approach I think, is that you still want to run acceleration enchantments to create mana-gain from Faeries, but without an Enchantress package, running such enchantments is much less synergistic, plus you likely wouldn't be running Serra's Sanctum in this case either which is one of the biggest mana boosters. Alternatively I suppose you could run a playset of Gaea's Cradle (or less optimally Simic Growth Chamber) to create a mana-gaining combo, but I suppose it all sounds kind of loose.

In the end though I keep thinking that I'm just imagining a worse version of Aluren (as Freggle has already mentioned has innate synergy with this archetype.)

[Dihensoeur]

Thanks for your interesting opinion.

Before talking about Phantasmal Image, I just want to remind that this deck can win without Faeries or/both Cloudstone Curio (strong consistency).

After thinking many hours about this card, this is my opinion:

What could we copy in the deck?

Argothian enchantress
+ Image gain shroud
- GSZ is better (cost one more but green and doesn't need to have already an argothian in the battlefield)

Wall of blossoms
+ Instant Draw
- GSZ is still better
- Image can be more easily destroyed than the real wall
- Wall offer us an instant draw + defense early in the game, a Image without nothing in the battelfield is a dead card.

Other green cards:
- GSZ is still better

Cloud of faeries
+ Image works with Cloudstone Curio
- Need to have already a faerie in hand/battlefield

What could we copy from opponent?

Emrakul
=> no, we can't use Image under Show and tell to copy an Emrakul u_u.

Dark confidant
=> If we reveal an Emrakul.......

Any other creature
=> can be easily managed by its removal.

Conclusion:
I think the card is too dependent by our battlefield/hand to be really useful. But I will test it (surely x1 or x2) to be sure. I was a good idea to think about it.


About Steely Resolve: As I said, I'm not dependent of faeries so it's not matter that faeries are managed/exiled so we don't need to reinforce the protection of faeries. Moreover we have City of solitude that protect us during combo.

About Dosan the Falling Leaf: City protect us from abilities like Jitte's abilities (that can kill faeries), Dosan protect only spells and it's not an enchantment.

About Living wish: That can be cool but how do you include it? And what is the impact on the speed of the deck? I can't estimate it.



I think one of the biggest issues with this concept (Enchantress version) from a competitive standpoint is that it's essentially a combo deck, but it's not an extremely fast combo, I mean you have to make it to at least T3-4 I'm guessing, and have a Cloud of Faeries in hand at that point, and have gotten a couple acceleration enchantments along the way, and even then you'll be somewhat reliant on your draws to get you there. So the point is that it's a slowish combo deck, that doesn't run much (any?) disruption/defense but instead relies on redundancy, which might be fine in a meta full of 'fair' decks that are trying to beat you down with Goyfs or Batterskulls or something, but when you're contending with OmniTell, Dredge, Reanimator, Tin Fins, ANT, TES, Painter, etc., and all you really have is MAYBE a set of Leyline of Sanctity in the board, I think it's unrealistic to expect to make it to T3-5 consistently. We could jam Leyline of the Void in the board as well, or perhaps Mindbreak Traps, but I feel like we'd be stretched thin and reliant on our opponents fumbling which isn't really a good strategy. These thoughts aren't based on playtesting mind you, I'm really just thinking out loud, so if results prove different than I'll eat my words but I just feel like the concept, as cool as it is, is too slow to contend with the other powerful combo decks that exist given the amount of hate we're packing, and the awkward part is that most hate doesn't even really 'fit' the deck, if you get my meaning.

I know this deck is the slowest combo deck. That's why I'm searching on the good anti-combo sideboard. Generally, a match combo VS combo is "who goes first?", the goal to defeat combo for this deck is to slow it until we go combo. We're more consistence VS combo-hate that others combos (like discard), more slow but more consistence.
I suggest to you to test the list and tell me you're feeling. It's very amusing to play this deck.




I was also thinking about another sort of deck without the Enchantress element, using either Glimpse of Nature and/or Beck (Beck/Call) as the draw engine; cast one of them before you start chaining off with Curio/Faeries and you inevitably draw your entire deck; Beck is a 'may' trigger which is relevant, and is a blue card making a counter-heavy version a consideration with 4 MD FoW among other spells. Could also run Coiling Oracle in this version for additional draw power, perhaps even Brainstorms to set-up those free land-drops, as well as being another blue card. The major weakness with this approach I think, is that you still want to run acceleration enchantments to create mana-gain from Faeries, but without an Enchantress package, running such enchantments is much less synergistic, plus you likely wouldn't be running Serra's Sanctum in this case either which is one of the biggest mana boosters. Alternatively I suppose you could run a playset of Gaea's Cradle (or less optimally Simic Growth Chamber) to create a mana-gaining combo, but I suppose it all sounds kind of loose.

In the end though I keep thinking that I'm just imagining a worse version of Aluren (as Freggle has already mentioned has innate synergy with this archetype.)

Interesting way. But as you said, it seems to be an aluren way with no enchantment in the final so no enchantress.deck.



Thanks for your opinion.

[Dihensoeur]

Last List (that I'm currently test):

MainDeck

1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
9 Forest

1 Eternal Witness
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Leafcrown Dryad

1 Garruk Wildspeaker

2 Cloudstone Curio

3 Seal of Removal
4 Abundant Growth
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Cursed Totem
3 Seal of Primordium
3 Thoughtseize
4 Phyrexian Revoker


Personal feeling from my experience:

x3 duress and x3 kozilek MD work well vs all decks. They allow us to fight efficiently combo and assure us when we want start combo or put a key card (like enchantress).
I give up Emrakul as a win con, because it needs to be in combo mode and when we are in combo mode, we always prefer to play Tendrils for an instant win.
So it doesn't give us another plan, specially when we're fighting card like Canonist.
So I'm testing Garruck that seems to be synergic with the deck:
- First ability is like a fearies.
- Second allow to put threat or token to fight liliana.
- Third can be a surprise win by attacking with Argothian as 3/4 and others creatures.

I give up Wall of blossoms because I win at least 9/10 times with the combo Faerie+curio+wall (that doesn't like as an Enchantress deck).
So I'm testing Leafcrown that can stop delver and some others creatures and it makes the combo with curio more "Enchantress".

I give up Leyline because it's definitively not a good hate-combo. I put Revoker instead for the moment. Revoker is efficient VS combo and more than Leyline.

Someone suggest to think about compost because the actual meta is very BUG. And Dread of night to fight D&T.
I will think about them.