[Development] A Glimpse of Stormy Kobold Clouds

[DemolitionColorScheme]

First off, let's start out that I've always had a little fascination with MTG's tiny 0 CMC Kobolds. They're useless, weak and frankly ... quite cute.

Now, I know there have been Kobold decks, like the one focussed on Chalice of the Void, Glimpse of Nature and Multani's Presence. Sadly, that one felt really unstable and really ... Belcher takes the crown here. Then there's one that 'abuses' Cloudstone Curio for Kobold bouncing, but they've had different versions which felt rather unstable as well.
I tried designing one that was a bit more stable and is less focussed on drawing into luck or constantly needing to Mulligan for the combo. I tried combining the decks and tried to find certain synergies.

This is the current version:

Land [19]:
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand

Creatures [6]:
2 Crimson Kobolds
2 Crookshank Kobolds
2 Kobolds of Kher Keep

Cantrips [12]:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain

Discard [4]:
4 Cabal Therapy

Intel [4]:
4 Gitaxian Probe

Counter [5]:
4 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation

Combo [9]:
4 Cloudstone Curio
3 Glimpse of Nature
1 Brain Freeze
1 Tendrils of Agony

Contingency Plan [1]:
1 Spellbook

Sideboard (under construction):
2 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Submerge
4 Thoughtseize

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Options:
Dark Ritual
Culling the Weak
Diabolic Intent (no revealing, which I see as a huge plus)
Personal Tutor
Intuition

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My previous version didn't use Glimpse but used Muddle the Mixture and Perplex for tutoring and countering but it slowed the deck down quite a bit. I ran more Brainfreeze's and no Tendrils as well, which meant I had to sacrifice cantripping, which - honestly - is better than tutoring in most cases. Glimpse enables me to combo out way faster. All I need is one Curio, a Kobold and Glimpse and I can just pick up the deck and go wild. If I don't have enough mana to go off that turn Spellbook enables me to just keep the entire deck in my hand (minus a few cards for safety) and go off that next turn. It is the flaw of the deck ... It's no OmniClash / Show and Tell (which I normally play). I can combo out in a turn, but I do need more mana than a 2C/1U Show and Tell (+ Omniscience / Dream Halls and Enter the Infinite). However, this deck is more of a threat with having Cabal Therapy and Kobolds. A turn 1 Cabal Therapy (or start out with a Probe), name FoW - for instance, fail or succeed and see the hand and then cast a Kobold, sac it and butcher the hand further is a quite wicked start of the game.

Thoughts?
I realize this will never be a top tier deck, but even if not, it's a nice alternative vs Show and Tell and in this day and age, it kinda has a surprise factor.

[KazinMtg]

I haven't playtested the deck at all but I feel like you really want 4 glimpses, and you really dont need the spell book "contingency plan". Its a combo deck, you either win or lose. Just make it more consistent and dont worry about contingency plans until the sideboard.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

I haven't playtested the deck at all but I feel like you really want 4 glimpses, and you really dont need the spell book "contingency plan". Its a combo deck, you either win or lose. Just make it more consistent and dont worry about contingency plans until the sideboard.
The thing is, with a Cloudstone out, a Glimpse and a Kobold I can combo, but the problem can appear that I can combo but end up being tapped out due to playing a Cloudstone and a Glimpse in the same turn (CMC 4), but I know I can combo because I just peaked my opponents hand with a Probe or a Cabal Therapy. I can lay down the Cloudstone and then skip a turn ... but giving your opponent a turn can be a dangerous thing. The Spellbook enables me to prepare-combo and ensure I can combo next turn, because I basically have my entire deck in my hand, including all counters and discard, which makes the opponents next turn pretty much useless. It has saved my ass a few times.

Regarding the Glimpse; yeah, that makes sense. It's a part of the combo, so it should be 4, indeed. Now I just need to see what I need to ditch ...

[Plm]

Hi, fun deck.

I guess you need 2 kobold + curio + glimpse (or storm spell) to win, as curio cannot bounce the kobold that came in play :frown:

3 card combo is though to assemble, maybe play some lim dul's vault ?

Why not take a page of spanish inquisition and play tall men, culling the weak and diabolic intent ?

The thing that trouble me is the low kobold count, but I'm lazy and didn't even goldfish the deck so...

[Mystical_Jackass]

Is there any advantage to speeding the deck up? I'm just throwing these ideas out there, so take it or leave it. I guess the main thing that came to me, being a combo, is that there was no ramp.

4x Dark Ritual (-->Curio, turn1 seems legit)
4x Lotus Petal (faster dig, combo sooner)
3-4x E. Tutor (turn 1, fetch Curio. Opens up for toolbox hate like O. Ring or Needle kind of plays?)
2-4x Regrowth (since you splash green, get backed countered or destroyed Curio, brainstorms, etc.)

Also, whats your game plan if opponent opens with Chalice 0 or something?

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Hi, fun deck.

I guess you need 2 kobold + curio + glimpse (or storm spell) to win, as curio cannot bounce the kobold that came in play :frown:

3 card combo is though to assemble, maybe play some lim dul's vault ?

Why not take a page of spanish inquisition and play tall men, culling the weak and diabolic intent ?

The thing that trouble me is the low kobold count, but I'm lazy and didn't even goldfish the deck so...
Are you absolutely sure? Since I've read that you can actually bounce one Kobold. It's not what Curio was designed for, but I read that it was allowed. If it turns out that you can't bounce 1 Kobold, then ... I don't really feel this deck would work. It would add another card to the combo, which means I would need to add more Kobolds, which are basically dead draws, besides saccing them for Cabal Therapy.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Is there any advantage to speeding the deck up? I'm just throwing these ideas out there, so take it or leave it. I guess the main thing that came to me, being a combo, is that there was no ramp.

4x Dark Ritual (-->Curio, turn1 seems legit)
4x Lotus Petal (faster dig, combo sooner)
3-4x E. Tutor (turn 1, fetch Curio. Opens up for toolbox hate like O. Ring or Needle kind of plays?)
2-4x Regrowth (since you splash green, get backed countered or destroyed Curio, brainstorms, etc.)

Also, whats your game plan if opponent opens with Chalice 0 or something?
I'm not sure acceleration has its place here. At least, black mana. The main combo is Brain Freeze, Tendrils is a backup for things like Show and Tell, which often run 1 maindecked Emrakul (it would shuffle the entire graveyard back into the library). I find that I'm often not mana-starved since all of the stuff I play, besides Curio is 1 mana and Brain Freeze is 2.

E. Tutor is awesome ... but splashing white in there didn't seem like a good idea to me, since I'm already just splashing green in there.

Regrowth is a good thing to consider, indeed. Not sure what I would ditch, though. I don't want to make the deck become too disjointed.

I haven't encountered Chalice at 0 at all. It was used a lot in the past, not seeing it show up in SBs lately. Answer, which I was considering is Abrupt Decay.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Hm, I think Plm is right about Curio. When you come and think of it; you cast a Kobold and Curio's ability gets triggered, you may choose another permanent, next to the one you've casted and return that one. Which means the combo would, indeed ... need 2 Kobolds. Man, that's a shame. This deck can't get any better because of this ... I'm open to suggestions, but I'm now rather sceptical regarding it, haha. a 3-card combo is doable, but 4 ... !? Hm.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Hm, I think Plm is right about Curio. When you come and think of it; you cast a Kobold and Curio's ability gets triggered, you may choose another permanent, next to the one you've casted and return that one. Which means the combo would, indeed ... need 2 Kobolds. Man, that's a shame. This deck can't get any better because of this ... I'm open to suggestions, but I'm now rather sceptical regarding it, haha. a 3-card combo is doable, but 4 ... !? Hm.

I got it!

Ranger of Eos x4

Cut back on kobolds, use them only for combo. Splash :w: for E. Tutors, you're set. I mean, dude this is combo not some mid-range aggro, you really can't go 3 colors for better tutors? And you run sol lands, you can tutor for curio turn1, drop it turn 2, Ranger turn 3 and be setup to win turn 4.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

I got it!

Ranger of Eos x4

Cut back on kobolds, use them only for combo. Splash :w: for E. Tutors, you're set. I mean, dude this is combo not some mid-range aggro, you really can't go 3 colors for better tutors? And you run sol lands, you can tutor for curio turn1, drop it turn 2, Ranger turn 3 and be setup to win turn 4.
Hah! You're a hero! That's quite cool! It's a shame the Ranger's CMC isn't smaller ... But, can't have it all.
Would you advize just dropping Black altogether then? All I use it for now is Cabal Therapy and sacing Kobolds to do so. So, in your opinion, what should I drop out of the current list in replacement for the Ranger and the E. Tutors?

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Also, you can bounce lands with Curio as well. Now, I was wondering, can you tap a City of Traitors and then play a land and return the City to your hand? Or do you still need to sacrifice it? What comes first on the stack?

[Mystical_Jackass]

Hah! You're a hero! That's quite cool! It's a shame the Ranger's CMC isn't smaller ... But, can't have it all.
Would you advize just dropping Black altogether then? All I use it for now is Cabal Therapy and sacing Kobolds to do so. So, in your opinion, what should I drop out of the current list in replacement for the Ranger and the E. Tutors?

That's a good question. Well, I think for starts:
-2 Kobolds (they're just combo filler)
-4 Cabal Therapy
+4 Ranger

And the more I think about it, you might just want to SB the FoW for when you really need to fight through blue magic... strictly for what you need, I'm almost thinking more of a Quinn "Silence" approach might work better, and to fog aggro like Goblins that might try to race you?

+4 Orim's Chant
-4 FoW

Lastly, since you're really just gonna' be forcing cards through, some stuff might be countered or destroyed, OR you just need to pickup a fetch/brainstorm I think Regrowth would just be a great "glue" card to piece the deck together, give a little more durability.

+4 Regrowth
-2 Preordain (12 cantrips might be a little much anyways)

What you think about something like that?

[HPB_Eggo]

More of a question than a condemnation, but what differentiates this deck from simply being a weaker version of Alluren?

[DemolitionColorScheme]

That's a good question. Well, I think for starts:
-2 Kobolds (they're just combo filler)
-4 Cabal Therapy
+4 Ranger

And the more I think about it, you might just want to SB the FoW for when you really need to fight through blue magic... strictly for what you need, I'm almost thinking more of a Quinn "Silence" approach might work better, and to fog aggro like Goblins that might try to race you?

+4 Orim's Chant
-4 FoW

Lastly, since you're really just gonna' be forcing cards through, some stuff might be countered or destroyed, OR you just need to pickup a fetch/brainstorm I think Regrowth would just be a great "glue" card to piece the deck together, give a little more durability.

+4 Regrowth
-2 Preordain (12 cantrips might be a little much anyways)

What you think about something like that?
This might actually work ... !
Orim's Chant might be a good substitute for countering, indeed. If we're gonna use the Kobolds just for comboing out, why not just toss 4 of them out of the deck and leave 2 of them in there, especially if I'm not gonna use Cabal Therapy anymore. In the case of losing a Kobold, Regrowth can bring one back as well.

How about
+ 4 Ranger
+ 4 Orim's Chant
+ 4 E. Tutor
+ 2 PoN

- 1 Tendrils
- 1 Preordain
- 4 Cabal Therapy
- 4 Kobolds
- 4 FoWs

Now ... where to place the Regrowths ...

[DemolitionColorScheme]

More of a question than a condemnation, but what differentiates this deck from simply being a weaker version of Alluren?
I'm not really seeing a correlation between a Storm deck like this and Alluren, but maybe I'm missing something here. :smile:
Please enlighten me!

[HPB_Eggo]

I'm not really seeing a correlation between a Storm deck like this and Alluren, but maybe I'm missing something here. :smile:
Please enlighten me!

Aluren wins by doing the exact same thing this deck does - playing a ton of free dudes. Once you get to the point where you're playing through all your free guys both decks have, essentially, already won - the fact that one wins through creatures alone and the other draws a ton of cards and then casts Tendrils or Brain Freeze doesn't really differentiate them.

To my mind, Aluren is faster and requires fewer cards to go off. It contains roughly the same amount of protection and drawing before going off and only falls behind in that department after this deck draws all of its cards - at which point it has, in fact, already won. It also has a secondary plan that speeds up its primary plan - that of turning things sideways. It can also gain life when built correctly and is more resilient to things like StP because it can play its creatures at instant speed.

I'm sure this deck has its own advantages, but I'm having a decent amount of difficulty figuring out what they are.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Aluren wins by doing the exact same thing this deck does - playing a ton of free dudes. Once you get to the point where you're playing through all your free guys both decks have, essentially, already won - the fact that one wins through creatures alone and the other draws a ton of cards and then casts Tendrils or Brain Freeze doesn't really differentiate them.

To my mind, Aluren is faster and requires fewer cards to go off. It contains roughly the same amount of protection and drawing before going off and only falls behind in that department after this deck draws all of its cards - at which point it has, in fact, already won. It also has a secondary plan that speeds up its primary plan - that of turning things sideways. It can also gain life when built correctly and is more resilient to things like StP because it can play its creatures at instant speed.

I'm sure this deck has its own advantages, but I'm having a decent amount of difficulty figuring out what they are.
Yes, I just found out about it. I've been gone from MTG for a while and hadn't heard of an Aluren deck before. I just checked it out and the philosopy is very-very similar. It's actually quite cool! As I see it, it runs FoWs and Cabal Therapy as well, which the current rendition of this deck won't let me do ... sadly. Hm! Interesting.

[Mystical_Jackass]

I'm sure this deck has its own advantages, but I'm having a decent amount of difficulty figuring out what they are.

Well, this is the New and Development thread, which is about developing new deck ideas and strategies. I don't think he needs to validate an untested, incomplete deck.

But since this combo does seem to fall somewhere between Aluren and Quinn I think that's the natural question. Obviously speed and consistency are going to be the natural questions, next how resilient or well it can protect the combo. One thing you might be able to have over Aluren is E. Tutor, I know Aluren has some tutoring but it's pretty nice having a T1 tutor ability or toolbox, other than that I'm not really sure, the good thing about the deck is besides the Ranger it plays under a very low curve, there's to ramping to any 5cmc spells which is kind of nice at least.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Well, this is the New and Development thread, which is about developing new deck ideas and strategies. I don't think he needs to validate an untested, incomplete deck.

But since this combo does seem to fall somewhere between Aluren and Quinn I think that's the natural question. Obviously speed and consistency are going to be the natural questions, next how resilient or well it can protect the combo. One thing you might be able to have over Aluren is E. Tutor, I know Aluren has some tutoring but it's pretty nice having a T1 tutor ability or toolbox, other than that I'm not really sure, the good thing about the deck is besides the Ranger it plays under a very low curve, there's to ramping to any 5cmc spells which is kind of nice at least.
Yeah, it worked well when it just needed 1 Kobold, since that's the core. You could build around it to taste. But since I found out you do in fact need two ... the whole build crumbled. I don't really feel super motivated to carry this idea on.

The upside of this deck is that the CMC curve is, indeed, low. But with the adding of the Ranger, that gets upped as well. Getting 3 mana for a Curio can be a Turn 2 or 3 drop, but even now, getting the 2 Kobolds via the Ranger is always going to take longer, let alone stand have enough mana to get the combo itself. Besides, most of the protection / threats that I had with the Kobolds, counters and discard has to be pretty much removed completely to even add the two tutors (E. and Ranger - I'll count them both as tutors for now) and the Regrowths.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

It doesn't require double green. That and Aluren was...fun and instant speed, and while this may be fun, it's not instant speed, giving it even less of an advantage, and that is bad as aluren is dead. My buddy since 6th grade (we're 26 now) used to play a C. Curio list (he was much more about the fun aspect, whereas I'm about tournament play) that wrecked a ton of my decks, but he had a play-style and building technique all his own. I could never replicate it, and I don't recall exactly what he did in his build, but it was not for a tournament setting, that is certain. I once saw him lethal storm with a Brain Freeze using multiple Mirari's Wake and Cunning Wishes. It was rediculous. Drinking gets me off-topic, sorry for the troll...

-ABC

[Blastoderm]

I have some things to contribute to this as I play Cherri0s.

- I saw someone mention regrowth. Noxious Revival has been amazing for me even though it puts it on top of library. It costs 0 to play.

- I haven't tested the Cloudstone Curio storm combo yet but it's something I want to try out. Right now I play 4 beck 4 glimpse and kill with signal pests or beastmaster ascension. It plays a bit like affinity. The ascension is a one card combo with kobolds/ornithopter/memnite. I think this is the direction you want to go instead of all these cantrips. You can probably fit the curio combo in there somewhere!

- If you really want to go the curio route, maybe fabricate would be better than the cantrips as it finds it for you immediately. Sure it's 3 mana but in kobolds.dec you play 4 gaea's cradle.

- It just seems like instead of the cantrips you can play 12 kobold, 4 memnite, 4 phyrexian walker, 4 ornithopter (yes i know curio doesnt work with the constructs). That way you can draw a million cards and have two wincons: ascension and curio.