Stupid Morph Question

[rufus]

Let's say I have Yawgmoth's Agenda in play, and Birchlore Rangers in my graveyard, and that my opponent has Circu, Dimir Lobotomist and has exiled Birchlore Rangers with it.

Can I cast Birchlore Rangers from my graveyard using morph?

Circu prevents me from playing any card that has the name 'Birchlore Rangers'. Morph doesn't turn cards in the graveyard face down, so it seems that at the start of casting process (before Birchlore Rangers is moved on the stack) Circu should prevent it, right?

P.S. There's a 2005 ruling for Circu on gatherer about 'copies aren't cards' which confuses me a bit:


10/1/2005 Circu's last ability doesn't prevent copies of the exiled cards from being cast because copies aren't cards.

I'm guessing that's deprecated.

[TsumiBand]

Let's say I have Yawgmoth's Agenda in play, and Birchlore Rangers in my graveyard, and that my opponent has Circu, Dimir Lobotomist and has exiled Birchlore Rangers with it.

Can I cast Birchlore Rangers from my graveyard using morph?

Circu prevents me from playing any card that has the name 'Birchlore Rangers'. Morph doesn't turn cards in the graveyard face down, so it seems that at the start of casting process (before Birchlore Rangers is moved on the stack) Circu should prevent it, right?

P.S. There's a 2005 ruling for Circu on gatherer about 'copies aren't cards' which confuses me a bit:

I'm guessing that's deprecated.

I'm inclined to think that the special rules involving Morph actually let you try to cast the spell. The spell is considered facedown before it's moved onto the stack; this is different from, say, I dunno, Bestow, which changes the card's type after it's been placed on the stack as a creature spell.


707.4. Objects that are cast face down are turned face down before they are put onto the stack, so effects that care about the characteristics of a spell will see only the face-down spell’s characteristics. Any effects or prohibitions that would apply to casting an object with these characteristics (and not the face-up object’s characteristics) are applied to casting this object. The permanent the spell becomes will be a face-down permanent.

I don't see anything which specifically says this action is zone-dependent; apparently this was part of a rules cleaning-up with Future Sight's release. The game will see a face-down spell as having "always been" face-down, with all the characteristics implicit with a face-down spell and none of the characteristics of the face-up aspect of the spell/card.

By my estimation, I don't think there's anything Circu can do to prevent you from casting Birchlore Rangers as a face-down spell.

[stage]

Face-down spells have no name (even though your opponent will know what card it is), so Circu won't prevent you from casting them.

There are a lot of morph rulings here https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/87 including two relevant (albeit simpler) scenarios where a) there is just a Meddling Mage and b) there is just a Yawgmoth's Agenda

[rufus]

My example was a little simplified: The original thought involved Haakon, Stromgald Scourge hit with Artificial Evolution (Knight -> Elf) rather than Yawgmoth's Agenda. With Circu, Dimir Lobotomist exiling another Birchlore Rangers.

The question has to do with whether casting with morph is available:

702.36a Morph is a static ability that functions in any zone from which you could play the card it's on, and the morph effect works any time the card is face down....

You can't play the card based on it's current properties, so is Morph really available? (Probably -- I'm pretty sure you can play Zoetic Cavern using morph after playing your land card for the turn.)

[Malchar]

P.S. There's a 2005 ruling for Circu on gatherer about 'copies aren't cards' which confuses me a bit:

I'm guessing that's deprecated.

That would apply for something like Isochron Scepter where you're casting a copy of another card. It doesn't apply very often though.

To your other observation about zones and Zoetic Cavern: That particular rule is merely checking whether or not the zone that the card is in will allow you to cast spells from it. For example, you can cast spells from you hand by default, but you can only cast spells from your graveyard if you have a particular effect like Yawgmoth's Will. The rule isn't concerned with any external factors such as whether or not you have enough mana to cast the spell or if there are any restrictions like Circu.

[TsumiBand]

Really the thing to keep in mind is that (a) regardless of what actions people take in real life (ie, people tap mana THEN play their spells, even though you don't have to do this until later in casting before passing priority), the game itself treats placing a spell on the stack as the very first action when casting anything (b) the card is face-down before it even goes onto the stack. This means that its characteristics are strictly those of a face-down spell and nothing else. Circu on Birchlore Rangers doesn't affect Birchlore Rangers in your graveyard because the game has no idea that you're trying to play a spell named "Birchlore Rangers"; it just sees a face-down spell going onto the stack. Whether or not it is the same card or same object is a non-issue because its name is not Birchlore Rangers; its name is non-existant.



702.36b To cast a card using its morph ability, turn it face down. It becomes a 2/2 face-down creature card, with no text, no name, no subtypes, no expansion symbol, and no mana cost. Any effects or prohibitions that would apply to casting a card with these characteristics (and not the face-up card‘s characteristics) are applied to casting this card. These values are the copiable values of that object‘s characteristics. (See rule 613, "Interaction of Continuous Effects," and rule 706, "Copying Objects.") Put it onto the stack (as a face-down spell with the same characteristics), and pay {3} rather than pay its mana cost. This follows the rules for paying alternative costs. You can use morph to cast a card from any zone from which you could normally play it. When the spell resolves, it enters the battlefield with the same characteristics the spell had. The morph effect applies to the face-down object wherever it is, and it ends when the permanent is turned face up.

[rufus]

...
To your other observation about zones and Zoetic Cavern: That particular rule is merely checking whether or not the zone that the card is in will allow you to cast spells from it. ....

I do think that the morph condition should really be written that way: "...you could cast a facedown card..." rather than "...you could cast the card it's on..."