GB Elders

[Zupponn]

Current Decklist:

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Dungrove Elder
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Scute Mob
1x Nylea, God of the Hunt
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
1x Dryad Arbor

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Living Wish
3x Thoughtseize
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

9x Forest
4x Bayou
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Swamp

Sideboard:
1x Ashen Rider
1x Dungrove Elder
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Minister of Pain
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Thragtusk
1x Stingerfling Spider
1x Wilt-Leaf Liege
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
2x Massacre

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Original Post:

So, a while back I was experimenting with a mono green ramp beatdown list, which can be viewed here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23924-Mono-G-Ramp&highlight=). This list was fairly decent against other creature based decks, but ran into trouble against combo. Looking back at the thread, I remember people suggesting adding black for a way to deal with all sorts of things, so I've recently been experimenting with the idea.

Here's where I'm at now:

4x Veteran Explorer
4x Dungrove Elder
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Scute Mob
3x Vinelasher Kudzu
3x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Scavenging Ooze

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Umezawa's Jitte

9x Forest
4x Bayou
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Swamp
1x Dryad Arbor

I have little idea as to what kind of sideboard I'd be looking at now, but it would most definitely include some number of Ensnaring Bridge, Thorn of Amethyst, and Relic of Progenitus.

The deck is mainly focused on getting out lands to fuel its threats and then playing the beatdown game. It's not super flashy or anything, but there is a lot of synergistic power here. Starting a game with Veteran Explorer and then going Cabal Therapy, sac Explorer for flashback, and then Dungrove Elder is a pretty brutal opening. Most of the cards in the deck are included because they work well together. The card that I've been liking the least right now has been Sylvan Safekeeper mainly because it's not a huge threat. I've been thinking about trying Deathrite Shaman in there to see how that works out. I figure that he's both a fairly decent threat, messes with the graveyard, and generates black mana if I run into a Wasteland heavy game.

I probably have more to write, but I can't think of how I want to write it right now, so if you have any thoughts on the decklist, let me know. Thanks!

[SpeedOfDark]

Hi,

cool deck! Several of the cards in your list are pet cards of mine :P

Deathrite shaman is neat, but I have a feeling you want to stick with land-based ramping since you have so much synergy there already. If you do test out with deathrite, you will probably only want 2-3 of him since you don't want to be drawing multiples.

Sakura-tribe elder is probably one of the weaker cards in this deck, so I will suggest possible replacements. The main problem with it is that its basically a rampant growth that gets to block one creature. And if you're on the offensive (which I imagine you are most of the time), the block doesn't really help.

If you use it as an attacker with upside, then this is probably better:
viridian emissary: Has the advantage of being more aggressive if it gets to attack and has sweet cabal therapy synergy, but you cannot fetch a land on command unless you have a cabal. It also does the blocking thing better than sakura-tribe elder. If it gets sotp'ed you won't get a land, but if they are wasting their top removal on this piece of crap, I think you're ahead anyways.

If you use sakura-tribe elder as a pure ramp spell, here are stronger ones:
new frontiers: biggest ramp spell ever. Since we are talking legacy, it should be mostly 1-sided (and you can always board it out in the few match ups where it is symmetrical). At X=1 its basically a rampant growth or less, but as long as x is 2 or more and you have a threat in play, your payout should be decent.

three visits: forest-specific rampant growth on steroids. Notice 2 things:
1. this can fetch bayou
2. the land comes into play untapped
The net effect is like a 1 mana rampant growth that can fetch dual lands. (There are also functional reprints of this card)

---

I don't necessarily recommend cutting sakura-tribe elder entirely, because it is nice to have the flexibility of GSZ into him if it is good to a particular board state. However, you do not need 4 of him to do this so 1-2 should be sufficient.

[Blastoderm]

I dont think Scute Mob should be a 4 of. You could increase vinelasher to 4. Scute mob does nothing until you have lots of lands in play, maybe cut it down to 3? Even having it has a 1-of green sun's target would be good.

Natural Order might be good in here as well. 4 mana isn't really a problem if you're ramping. You have so many creatures to sacrifice as well.

Veteran Explorer needs another sacrifice outlet other than cabal therapy. In Nic Fit I play innocent blood or birthing pod and phyrexian tower. You could try playing 1-2 phyrexian towers.

I also think you could find room for more discard like Thoughtseize. Combo seems like a difficult matchup. It also takes away removal or counterspells before you land a natural order. Sylvan safekeeper can go down to 1 or 2 especially since you have green sun's zenith (abuse it!!!).

[Zupponn]

Hi,

cool deck! Several of the cards in your list are pet cards of mine :P
Thanks! :)

Deathrite shaman is neat, but I have a feeling you want to stick with land-based ramping since you have so much synergy there already. If you do test out with deathrite, you will probably only want 2-3 of him since you don't want to be drawing multiples.
If I would use him, it would only be as a 2 or 3 of like you suggested. I'd probably take out the Sylvan Safekeepers as they've been a little underwhelming lately.

Sakura-tribe elder is probably one of the weaker cards in this deck, so I will suggest possible replacements. The main problem with it is that its basically a rampant growth that gets to block one creature. And if you're on the offensive (which I imagine you are most of the time), the block doesn't really help.
I sort of had this feeling too.


viridian emissary
new frontiers
three visits
Of these three, the Emissary stands out the most just because he's a creature. The other two are nice, but probably better suited for a different kind of deck than this one.

I don't necessarily recommend cutting sakura-tribe elder entirely, because it is nice to have the flexibility of GSZ into him if it is good to a particular board state. However, you do not need 4 of him to do this so 1-2 should be sufficient.
Yeah, I feel he's a good one-of in this deck. Sometimes all you need is a Rampant Growth.



I dont think Scute Mob should be a 4 of. You could increase vinelasher to 4. Scute mob does nothing until you have lots of lands in play, maybe cut it down to 3? Even having it has a 1-of green sun's target would be good.
Yep, I think that 3 Scute Mobs and 4 Vinelasher Kudzus is correct, although I have been wondering about trying out Tarmogoyf in the Kudzu's place.

Natural Order might be good in here as well. 4 mana isn't really a problem if you're ramping. You have so many creatures to sacrifice as well.
The only problem I see with Natural Order is I don't know what I'd be searching for. I mean, the thing you want to go get would be Progenitus, but does adding those cards dilute my current plan at all?

Veteran Explorer needs another sacrifice outlet other than cabal therapy. In Nic Fit I play innocent blood or birthing pod and phyrexian tower. You could try playing 1-2 phyrexian towers.
Maybe 1 at most. I want to keep my non-forest count as low as possible to grow Dungrove Elder as big as I can.

I also think you could find room for more discard like Thoughtseize. Combo seems like a difficult matchup. It also takes away removal or counterspells before you land a natural order. Sylvan safekeeper can go down to 1 or 2 especially since you have green sun's zenith (abuse it!!!).
Sylvan Safekeeper is definitely one of the cards I'm looking to cut down to maybe at most 1. I might get rid of it entirely, as my main man, Dungrove Elder already has hexproof. Thoughtseize would definitely be an option for those 2-3 slots then. I think that I'd want to test it out vs Deathrite Shaman right now. If nothing else I could go Shaman mainboard and Thoughtseize sideboard or something.

[J-Funk]

This deck seems really fun! A couple thoughts, do we think there's a place for Rancor in here? If we're slapping Jittes on our Dungrove, we definitely want him to connect and rancor seems pretty good.

I definitely like the cabal therapies here, but I'd agree that you probably want thoughtseize as well somewhere in there.

Final thought: Thrun? He seems pretty good here. Basically, if you can disrupt combo early game with discard and then slap down some fatties, baby you've got a stew going!

[rufus]

Three Visits is a functional reprint of Nature's Lore which doesn't cost $20.

You may not want to go this route, but a Life from the Loam / Manabond engine could be a decent fit for a concept like this.

A fun option might be Collective Voyage/New Frontiers maybe with Amulet of Vigor or Early Harvest.

[MoxBropal]

Very cool deck. How about Grafted Wargear as a sac/outlet, plus fast clock? Also Strangleroot Geist, albeit weak to StP, synergizes really well with the sac effects.

[Zupponn]

This deck seems really fun! It is! And surprisingly competitive as well!

A couple thoughts, do we think there's a place for Rancor in here? If we're slapping Jittes on our Dungrove, we definitely want him to connect and rancor seems pretty good.Rancor could be really good, but I'm struggling to find something to cut to fit it in. I'd rather just have the Jittes and lots of dudes personally.

I definitely like the cabal therapies here, but I'd agree that you probably want thoughtseize as well somewhere in there.Oh, yes. Those Seizes are definitely going in this. They help so much.

Final thought: Thrun? He seems pretty good here. Basically, if you can disrupt combo early game with discard and then slap down some fatties, baby you've got a stew going!Right now, I'm trying out a single copy as a GSZ target, but the problem becomes "When do I want him over Dungrove?" and that situation has yet to arise. I'll keep him in for now, but I'm not sold on him yet, no matter how good he is.


Three Visits is a functional reprint of Nature's Lore which doesn't cost $20.Personally, I'd rather have the body on Sakura-Tribe Elder or Viridian Emissary than the untapped land.

You may not want to go this route, but a Life from the Loam / Manabond engine could be a decent fit for a concept like this.This could be really good if I wanted to go a less creature heavy route. I do like having a lot of creatures in the deck though.

A fun option might be Collective Voyage/New Frontiers maybe with Amulet of Vigor or Early Harvest.I remember trying out Collective Voyage for a while in the old mono green list, but it just wasn't good here.


Very cool deck. Thanks! :)

How about Grafted Wargear as a sac/outlet, plus fast clock? Also Strangleroot Geist, albeit weak to StP, synergizes really well with the sac effects.
Grafted Wargear is a little expensive for my tastes. I'd rather just have Jitte. You can always use a counter to kill your own Veteran Explorer if you need to. Strangleroot Geist, on the other hand, is on my "to test" list.

I thought I'd also post the list I'm testing right now:

4x Dungrove Elder
4x Vinelasher Kudzu
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Scute Mob
2x Viridian Emissary
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Scavenging Ooze

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Thoughtseize

9x Forest
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Swamp

And a tentative sideboard:
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Pithing Needle
2x Diabolic Edict

EDIT: I thought it might be a good idea to post a bunch of "to test" cards here too in case anyone has any thoughts on them:

Deathrite Shaman
Witchstalker
Strangleroot Geist
Nylea, God of the Hunt
Eternal Witness
Master of the Wild Hunt
Champion of Lambholt
Scryb Ranger

[Timber]

I don't know if the 1 colorless totally throws off your curve or if the 2 power on the Emissary is better, but Wood Elves gives you a 1/1 body and an untapped Bayou. I run them in my Modern Death Cloud deck.

[Zupponn]

I don't know if the 1 colorless totally throws off your curve or if the 2 power on the Emissary is better, but Wood Elves gives you a 1/1 body and an untapped Bayou. I run them in my Modern Death Cloud deck.

I remember running one as a tutorable target back in the mono green version of this deck, but it wasn't as good as Sakura-Tribe Elder because of the Elder's ability to sac himself. I might test out using the Elder, the Elves, and the Emissary all as one-of tutorable targets, but at the moment I'm happy with the 2 Emissaries and the one Elder.

In other news, Nylea, God of the Hunt has been far more useful recently than Thrun, the Last Troll as a GSZ target because she gives Dungrove Elder trample. Also, every time I have thought that Thrun would be useful, Dungrove is just better. Some of the only cards that Thrun is better against would be stuff like Supreme Verdict and Pernicious Deed, both of which can be played around when you're running huge dudes. Anybody is free to correct me if I'm wrong here.


EDIT: Also updated the OP with the current list.

[J-Funk]

Nylea is a great idea, it solves the Trample issue in a really creative way. Are you finding that she actually turns into a creature ever, or does she work more like an indestructible enchantment. (FWIW, thrun's 2GCC brings her closer)

[Zupponn]

Nylea is a great idea, it solves the Trample issue in a really creative way. Are you finding that she actually turns into a creature ever, or does she work more like an indestructible enchantment. (FWIW, thrun's 2GCC brings her closer)

So far, she hasn't really been a creature too much. I just want her as an indestructible enchantment most of the time anyways, mostly to avoid StP. I also don't bother to search her up unless I'm going to kill them either the turn of or the next turn, so attacking with her really isn't a top priority.

[Zupponn]

So, I've been tinkering with the sideboard recently and have modified it pretty heavily. I think Golgari Charm is a great inclusion to combat a few nasty things in the world today (True-Name Nemesis, Moat, etc.). I also haven't been completely happy with Ensnaring Bridge as it stops my big dudes from attacking as well, so I'm experimenting with both Stingerfling Spider and Fleshbag Marauder to see how I like those cards against Sneak Show. The Marauder is the more useful of the two I think. Lastly, I added a single Emrakul for both the Sneak Show and Painter Stone strategies. I have updated the Current List part of the OP with the new sideboard.

The maindeck seems pretty solid right now, although I am thinking about swapping a single Jitte for a Sword of Fire and Ice to help fight the TNN decks. Vinelasher Kudzu still hovers near the chopping block until I find something I like better. He's just such a terrible topdeck that I seem to be more disappointed in him than not. Tarmogoyf and NO Prog are options I want to test out now as they both require less setup and are much better topdecks later in the game.

As always, I'm open for comments and suggestions and hope that what I just wrote made sense. :)

[Zupponn]

I haven't given up on this deck yet. Recently I've been playing around with Living Wish in the main to give the deck more ways to get Dungrove Elder onto the battlefield. Using Wish also allows me to build a more useful and flexible sideboard.

Here's a tentative list:

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Dungrove Elder
3x Scute Mob
1x Nylea, God of the Hunt
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Vinelasher Kudzu
1x Dryad Arbor

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Living Wish
3x Thoughtseize
3x Abrupt Decay

2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

9x Forest
4x Bayou
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Swamp

Sideboard:
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Ashen Rider
1x Dungrove Elder
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Stingerfling Spider
1x Viridian Shaman
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith

The lone Vinelasher Kudzu probably needs to be something else and I've been thinking about Eternal Witness, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I also added in some Deathrites, which have been pretty good so far, while swapping out the third Jitte for a Sword of Fire and Ice. I've also been wondering if a second Dryad Arbor would be useful, but I'm worried that it would muck up the early plays too much if I draw one and it also makes my manabase a little more vulnerable.

The sideboard was sort of hastily thrown together, and I think there are some good ideas and bad ideas in there. I'm not sure if Maze of Ith is necessary and I'm also not sure if having both Viridian Shaman and Wickerbough Elder is necessary. Having that kind of effect is very good, but I might not need both in the Side.

As always, comments and criticism are welcome. Thanks for reading. :)

[Blastoderm]

Hey,

Great to see you continue working on this deck, I haven't tested it but I'm interested. When I have more time I'll have more input but at first sight, the SB needs some work. Gaddock Teeg should be an autoinclude. Too many cards that I suspect you side in vs show and tell. I'll investigate your list more after work.

[MirrorMask]

How about including Dark Confidant on the list? I have a similar deck with rancor instead of swords but with confidant included. it works pretty nice since you tend to over extend with so much ramp.

[Zupponn]

Hey,

Great to see you continue working on this deck, I haven't tested it but I'm interested. When I have more time I'll have more input but at first sight, the SB needs some work. Gaddock Teeg should be an autoinclude. Too many cards that I suspect you side in vs show and tell. I'll investigate your list more after work.
The only problem that I have with Teeg is that I have few to no ways to cast it, depending on which decklist I'm going with. Show and Tell has always been a really tough matchup for this deck, but I might have a tad bit too much hate for that in here. Maybe something like Mesmeric Fiend might be an idea for the wishboard if I'm looking to shore up the combo matchup a bit though.


How about including Dark Confidant on the list? I have a similar deck with rancor instead of swords but with confidant included. it works pretty nice since you tend to over extend with so much ramp.
I'm not really sure about Bob. I don't think I've ever thought about him in this deck. He might be a good fit in the main if I decided not to go the Wish route or he could also be a sexy piece of the wishboard as well.

[Zupponn]

I've kept working on the Wish list and am really liking it. It allows the deck to be much more flexible than before by searching up those silver bullets that win games.

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Dungrove Elder
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Scute Mob
1x Nylea, God of the Hunt
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
1x Dryad Arbor

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Living Wish
3x Thoughtseize
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

9x Forest
4x Bayou
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Swamp

Sideboard:
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Ashen Rider
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Dungrove Elder
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Stingerfling Spider
1x Viridian Shaman
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Wilt-Leaf Liege
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith

So, not too different than before, but the main changes include finally getting rid of that Vinelasher Kudzu in the main and filling out the rest of the sideboard. In the main the Kudzu got replaced by an Eternal Witness for some extra utility, while in the side I added both Wilt-Leaf Liege to combat Liliana and other discard and decided to give Doomwake Giant a try to nuke those pesky True-Name Nemesises. The ideas behind the choices are solid, but I need to work some more to see if they will prove themselves in testing.

[MoxBropal]

You could also up the clock with 4x Strangleroot Geist and a few Grafted Wargear. The wargear really synergies with the sacrifice theme.

[Zupponn]

You could also up the clock with 4x Strangleroot Geist and a few Grafted Wargear. The wargear really synergies with the sacrifice theme.

If I would go that route, then I most likely would drop the Wish plan. I don't think that there is room in the deck for both strategies. Personally, I want to keep going on the Wish route, as it has been extremely good so far and I never have been sad when I have drawn a Wish at any point in the game. There's always something useful in the Sideboard to go grab. With Geist and Wargear, I can think of many times where they would not have been useful at all, so for now I plan on keeping the slightly slower but more versatile strategy.