[Podcast] Everyday Eternal Episode 12: Commander 2013, SCG Seattle, Johnny Decks, etc

[sdematt]

Greetings all,

Everyday Eternal Episode 12 has just been released! http://www.eternalcentral.com/everyday-eternal-podcast-episode-12-big-things-on-the-horizon/

On this episode we finish the discussion on everyone's favourite Johnny deck, then move on to Matt's wrap up of SCG Seattle. Then, we talk about the possible impact of Commander 2013 on Legacy (we were mostly right :cool:), and wrap up talking about Eternal Weekend and Bazaar of Moxen in Paris.

Hope you guys enjoy! Please comment! :)

-Matt

[Shawon]

Needs moar nedleeds!

I understand how you guys want to explain what cards do for people who don't know them, but what do you think of just including card tag links on the article page, and refer to it whenever you talk about card X, instead of having to define each card's text every time? I feel it saves a lot of time, and it makes it easier for people more knowledgeable to not just zone out.

No mention on Bane of Progress' Eternal applicability?

Congrats to Koby on becoming a homeowner!

[L0cke]

I understand how you guys want to explain what cards do for people who don't know them, but what do you think of just including card tag links on the article page, and refer to it whenever you talk about card X, instead of having to define each card's text every time? I feel it saves a lot of time, and it makes it easier for people more knowledgeable to not just zone out.

Not all of us can listen at a computer with those links available and it would be quite annoying to have them bring up some obscure card and have to just suffer through the rest of the discussion with no idea what the text is, or worse, stop listening until I can get to a computer just to look up that one card.

[Megadeus]

Not all of us can listen at a computer with those links available and it would be quite annoying to have them bring up some obscure card and have to just suffer through the rest of the discussion with no idea what the text is, or worse, stop listening until I can get to a computer just to look up that one card.

Agreed. I listen on my phone while Im at work or studying or something a lot.

[Koby]

Congrats to Koby on becoming a homeowner!

Thank you!


Not all of us can listen at a computer with those links available and it would be quite annoying to have them bring up some obscure card and have to just suffer through the rest of the discussion with no idea what the text is, or worse, stop listening until I can get to a computer just to look up that one card.

That's what we're shooting for. I listen to podcasts on my work commutes, so having stone-alone podcasts is ideal. For links to Top 8 or other mediums, i tmake sense to include in the show notes. For 15 second explanations, we'll just bite the bullet and explain it out loud.

[Richard Cheese]

Congrats to Koby on becoming a homeowner!

Take that, Obama!

[GiveMeYourOil]

Thank you for making this awsome podcast. !

Keep it up :)

[mini1337s]

Thank you for making this awsome podcast. !

Keep it up :)

Goddamn, make a Everyday Eternal playmat!
OR, holy shit, COMBINE theSource's new playmat with a Logo for Everyday Eternal.

How much to get it double signed?

[HammafistRoob]

Haven't listened yet, I will listen to this and the last one later on. I just wanted to say congrats to Koby for taking down Utter-Leyton, score one for TheSource! Anyway, were you surprised to not see Progenitus sided in? He would've killed you in that one extra turn, and you got some sauce draws to boot :).

[Koby]

Haven't listened yet, I will listen to this and the last one later on. I just wanted to say congrats to Koby for taking down Utter-Leyton, score one for TheSource! Anyway, were you surprised to not see Progenitus sided in? He would've killed you in that one extra turn, and you got some sauce draws to boot :).

I was very much surprised to see it wasn't boarded in. I still have to take that line regardless. At worst, I learn about this configuration and move to G3. My only concern in the matchup was: 1) stop Natural Order - Behemoth kills 2) Stop GSZ for 3 that would break up my Painter wash, and 3) counter Viridian Shaman hard cast. I was also aware I was going to get clocked fast, which meant minimizing the damage I was taking form Sentinels. Normally with Welder out, I only keep around Grinstone so I can weld back in the Painter after activation; but in this case I needed a blocker too. Oh I guess there's also 4) don't let DRS or Scavenging Ooze break up the graveyard for Welder tricks.

I boarded: -3 Grim Monolith -2 Wurmcoil Engine -1 Nihil Spellbomb + 3 Ensnaring Bridge +3 Spellskite (disenchant & untap redirects, plus blocking)

I also drew pretty damn well. It's easy-mode when you have 3 mana on turn 2 and both pieces in hand. :D

[Shawon]

What does the crew think about Cloudpost.dec and its position in the metagame?

[thecrav]

What does the crew think about Cloudpost.dec and its position in the metagame?

Quick thoughts: It wrecks miracles, but if I'm going to be attacking with Emrakul, I probably want to be playing Show and Tell.

(further thoughts to be posted when not at work and/or on an episode of the cast)

[lordofthepit]

Congrats, Koby!

Also, how did those Volcanic Islands and Transmute Artifacts work in the Maverick deck you played this weekend?

[Koby]

Congrats, Koby!

Also, how did those Volcanic Islands and Transmute Artifacts work in the Maverick deck you played this weekend?

We recorded about 10 days ago, then I took the Maverick list to a local event. Went 2-3, so back to combo! :D

[lordofthepit]

We recorded about 10 days ago, then I took the Maverick list to a local event. Went 2-3, so back to combo! :D

That's all right, you can call anything Maverick these days. Nice deck tech with the U/R Painted Maverick.

[Higgs]

We need a Vintage Masters discussion with Sean on board.

[Kayradis]

What about a word with Julian on the next episode?
Could be called : Hoofing The BoM

[HammafistRoob]

Quick thoughts: It wrecks miracles, but if I'm going to be attacking with Emrakul, I probably want to be playing Show and Tell.

(further thoughts to be posted when not at work and/or on an episode of the cast)

But TurboDrazi plays show and tell as well. I think it's been well positioned for a while now.

[(nameless one)]

Quick thoughts: It wrecks miracles, but if I'm going to be attacking with Emrakul, I probably want to be playing Show and Tell.

(further thoughts to be posted when not at work and/or on an episode of the cast)

A MUD list featuring 12post made top 4 at Eternal Weekend. Seems legit.

@Podcast: I have something to listen to at work today. Nice.

@Koby: congratulations on the house.

[thecrav]

We need a Vintage Masters discussion with Sean on board.

Go check the Vintage forum. His opinion is basically that MODO is stupid.

[nedleeds]

We need a Vintage Masters discussion with Sean on board.

I get it, I just have zero interest in rebuying everything as SQL server rows. I posted that here and on the drain.



I for one am not interested in buying sql server rows from Randy Bueller but if it spurs even a 100 people to try to pick up vintage then that's great. In reality I doubt it will do much to push real sanctioned vintage though. Perhaps proxy tourneys will see an uptick as players can give vintage a drive before coming out. This won't affect any "metagame" as the availability will be completely different IRL. The vast majority of IRL vintage players won't buy in for one reason or another (interface, already ave this stuff why pay, price of surrounding staples, etc.).

Another thing to keep in mind is that power is on it's own rarity sheet, meaning it's going to be super rare. Meaning the prices might creep north of $100 for a guid assigned to your account / mox. I think you are insane for even considering paying that much for a row in a database when a Bazaar costs $200.




There is no limit to the "printing", WoTC can just manipulate the price by inserting rows. I think if you could buy 40 duals and 40 fetches in a Sorcerers Land Box for MTGO for something reasonable like $100.00. You might get some people interested but by the time you add up the prices you can buy quite a few reserved list staples IRL. It's just not even an option, I'd sooner sink the cash into more beta duals.

Underground Sea - $40

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Underground+Sea+%5BME2%5D (http://"http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Underground+Sea+%5BME2%5D")

Polluted Delta - $21

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Polluted+Delta+%5BONS%5D (http://"http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Polluted+Delta+%5BONS%5D")

Mana Drain - $26

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mana+Drain+%5BME3%5D (http://"http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mana+Drain+%5BME3%5D")

Workshop - $28

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mishra%27s+Workshop+%5BME4%5D (http://"http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Mishra%27s+Workshop+%5BME4%5D")

force of Will - $103

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Force+of+Will+%5BMED%5D (http://"http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Force+of+Will+%5BMED%5D")

[Barook]

The only viable arguments in the Vintage Masters discussion is not wanting to buy everything twice and that MODO is a huge pile of shit in terms of usability.

The "data row" argument annoys me to no end since its fucking stupid and populist fear mongering. In the end, paper cards are only cardboard with ink. Value is determined how much people want to pay for said item, no matter what it is.

Sure, if MODO was shut down, the cards would be gone. It's not like paper cards would lose quite a bit of value as well, aside from the collector items like power and other staples. However, Magic is healthier than ever before with setting records everywhere and MODO is a huge moneymaker for them since the cost factor is basically non-existant (iirc, Wizards' MTG profit is in the ballpark of 40-50% from MODO alone - let that since into your head for a moment). If the game tanked, you would see it by a mile coming and selling online collections is extremely easy and a matter of days if you wanted to jump ship at any time.

Paper cards are an investment and about social interaction.

MODO is more about actually playing the game (if you don't care about the social interactions), especially in a format as dead as Vintage IRL.

Different strokes for different people, I guess.

[nedleeds]

It's a sound argument because I have my cards in my possession and Sam has his cards. Even if the DCI dies, and all WotC crumbles and the employees all sail off to the moon we can start the "Texas / Georgia All Star Magic Fight League". If Randy turns MODO off. You have nothing. You don't decide when they turn it off. If you can't understand the difference then I can't help you.

I understand value is determined by what the market will bear.

It doesn't have to be just that it shuts down, an unfavorable court ruling or the IP rolling to public domain or any other number of factors impact it. They aren't collectible. Database rows have no intrinsic value they have utility which is why they have value. My beta lotus has both utility and collectible value.

[Barook]

If Randy turns MODO off. You have nothing. You don't decide when they turn it off. If you can't understand the difference then I can't help you.
That's exactly the fear mongering I was talking about. MODO won't be turned off out of the blue - only if Magic dies as a whole since it's far too profitable, and that doesn't happen from one day to another. If you fear that Magic is dying, you can jump off early enough.


It doesn't have to be just that it shuts down, an unfavorable court ruling or the IP rolling to public domain or any other number of factors impact it.
Unfavorable court ruling? Like what? Apple suing Wizards because of round corners?

If the IP becomes public domain, you can see it coming by a mile away. Again, if you fear that Magic is dying, sell your online collection within days.

All I see is unreasonable assumptions about the sudden death of Magic/MODO. You won't wake up with a message that MODO is going to shut down anytime soon - not without alot of signs beforehand.

[danyul]

If one guy fears the death of MTG enough to sell out of the game (especially a guy like nedleeds) then he likely won't be the only one and selling out of his digital collection in a matter of days will probably not be so easy. Other people are sure to have the same idea and prices will tank pretty fast when everybody starts jumping ship.

You are forgetting the tactile nature of the game. I don't test online because I find no satisfaction in it. Some people like shuffling cards and playing things and tapping stuff and just generally *interacting* with a tangible board. Clicking two buttons and clicking two more to attack with a pixelated dragon just isn't as satisfying as tapping some cards here, holding the dragon in my hand, slamming that badboy down in slowmo and watching my opponent's soul drain out of his face when he realizes that I have a dragon and all he has are regrets.

I'm not worried about the future death of MODO. I'm worried about its present state of lifelessness.

[ESG]

Matt, I also faced a Sire of Insanity in that tournament, except it was out of Charbelcher! And I was a reader. ;)

Koby, I would love to see Griselbrand banned. That's No. 1 on my Magic wish list; however, I suspect that WOTC will ban Show and Tell. I don't know when that day will come, though. Considering that WOTC also printed Omniscience and Enter the Infinite, I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this printed in the next year or two:

Prizzelblargen, World Ender
8BBUURR
Creature- Horror
10/10
When Prizzelblargen, World Ender enters the battlefield, exile all of target opponent's permanents and his or her life total becomes zero.

Matt, I feel Deathrite Shaman has more of a chance against Reanimator than Scavenging Ooze because it at least comes down on Turn 1, but I'm not that keen on either of them as foils to Reanimator, especially now that most Reanimator players are running Lotus Petals. This is one of the reasons Griselbrand-based strategies are so degenerate. Your only realistic "hate" is Force of Will and maybe Daze and Spell Pierce, and if I have Deathrites maindeck in addition to those, then I give myself the best possible chances outside of running Miracles. Being someone who is not afraid to maindeck hate cards in order to ambush a target, I can say that it usually doesn't work, either because you get paired against that strategy or that you don't draw those cards when you do get paired. One of the most tilting games of Magic I ever played was when, sick of losing to Reanimator, I ran Junk Depths with four maindeck Extirpates, Crop Rotations for Bojuka Bog or Karakas, and numerous Edict effects, and I got paired against Reanimator and had to mull to five before I saw a hate card. I had my Crop Rotation Misstepped, then had my Edict Dazed, then had my second Edict Forced. I also was playing Mental Misstep but didn't see any in that match.

The frustrating part -- at least for those of us who love non-blue strategies -- is that as time goes on, Legacy is pushing people more and more into Force of Will-based strategies, because those are the only ones that can realistically fight spells on the stack. As you guys noted with Griselbrand, once it's in play, the game is effectively over. Not every single time, as some Sourcers love to point out, but virtually every time. Sneak and Show dominated the Invitational for the reasons you stated, but also because when lots of money is on the line, people run the most busted deck in order to have the best chance at cashing.

[Dzra]

Griselbrand may be banworthy eventually, but I don't think it's because of Reanimator. Reanimator's strength is that it has favorable combo MUs. It actually loses quite embarrassingly to certain non-Blue fair strategies like Death and Taxes and Maverick. Sneak Attack is possibly another matter, as Griselbrand is quite ridiculous there. Sneak Attack makes Karakas and GY mostly irrelevant.

[apple713]

grisselbrand is probably a mistake like tarmogoyf. Probably not ban worthy but probably shouldn't have been printed. The issue is that WOTC is going to print creatures and every once in a while and a deck will abuse that creature....There are enough decks in the format that that have access to very fast combos so if you ban the griselbrand strategy you switch the power to other decks just as degenerate.

I think WOTC banns cards when they represent 50+% of the top 8. So if we see 6 sneak attack decks in multiple top 8's that may be the sign to start selling yours.

[GoblinSettler]

It is a rainy night in a bad part of town and at the intersection of Grizzz St. and Johnny lies the corpse of my favorite two card combo, Gamekeeper and Cabal Therapy. Emrakul and dude have killed the fun of cheaty creatures for me. So Grisslebland.