2 Card Combos.dec - Helm/Leyline + Hexmage/Depths + Painter's Grindstone

[Captain Hammer]

I request your help in optimizing a deck that incorporates three different two card combos thus making it exceedingly difficult for your opponent to hate out completely.

I wish to focus on making the deck combo as consistently as possible for now. I do like playing a high density of combo cards, it makes it exceedingly fun to play with in my playgroup, especially multiplayer because combo cards get blown up with a pretty high frequency :laugh:.

Here is my current list...

4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize

4 Crop Rotation
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Living Wish

4 Helm of Obedience
4 Rest in Peace
2 Leyline of the Void

3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage

4 Dark Ritual
2 Lotus Petal
2 Crystal Vein
4 Ancient Tomb

2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs

Wishboard
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Primeval Titan
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Xantid Swarm
10 Other Cards

Update:

Modified the list the remove the Painter's Grindstone combo in order to strengthen the other two combos. What prompted this change was the feedback below and the realization that the Painter's Grindstone was the weakest combo in the deck because it was both the most mana intensive combo, and it was the one combo where neither combo piece has much utility aside from the combo. In comparison, Hexmage blows up Planeswalkers and is a decent weenie blocker. Depths is free to cast, Thespian's generates mana and both are uncounterable and generate black mana in combination with Urborg. Leyline and RIP have a tremendous amount of utility even outside of the combo.

I would greatly appreciate if you could explain to me the reasoning behind any changes that you recommend to the above list.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and consideration.

[Richard Cheese]

At first glance, I'd drop Dark Ritual and run Rest In Peace over Leyline. Cut the number of Dark Depths, probably to one, and run Thespian's stage and Crop Rotation.

[Captain Hammer]

Crop Rotation + Thespian's Stage sounds wonderful.

Not a fan of cutting Dark Ritual, that card speeds up the critical win turn by one many games. I would prefer to cut lands and there is derth of them in the deck.

Otherwise, I updated the list based on your ideas.

[DireLemming]

Might be too slow (and/or cute), but how about a 1-of Primeval Titan in the board so you can assemble the Depths combo with a single wish?

[JamieW89]

How about Serum Powder?

[MountainGo]

I would cut the Painter-Stone combo. Helm goes for a win along the same axis and does it in a superior way IMO. I'd just focus on that and Depths and maybe add some more discard so you have more protection.

[Captain Hammer]

I would cut the Painter-Stone combo. Helm goes for a win along the same axis and does it in a superior way IMO. I'd just focus on that and Depths and maybe add some more discard so you have more protection.

Updated the opening post with your and Dire's suggestions.

I also cut a Crystal Vein in favor of Lotus Petal as the deck was becoming increasingly dependent on colored mana and not missing land drops as the Painter-Stone combo was faded away.

[uncletiggy]

I'm curious how this deck has been fairing vs the field I have my own project but I may load this up on cocatrice and give it a whirl dc was infested with graveyard based decks so maindeck hate/ combo enablers seems good and I adore stage depths took a game vs affinity on a mull to four where my only plays were urborg stage and depths with dark maverick

[apple713]

heres a thought, if you are going to cut it down to 2 combos the goal is to increase consistency.

if you run depth you should run depths / painter because living wish can tutor for painter as well. <--- if you wish to go this route i highly recommend BUG, Mirri's guile is a great SDT effect and it's in your colors. Blue has great cantrips for finding combo pieces much better than running living wish / enlightened tutor. Counterspells are better for protection as opposed to black for discard.

if you run helm /rip you should run helm / painter because e tutor can tutor for all parts. <--- this could be a UW deck and play blue counter spells instead of black for discard. Counterspells are better because it gives better game against combo decks and protects you when your opponent draws into an answer.

my 2 cents

[Poron]

1 combo is already fine.. you should just play tutors

Trinket Mage, Enlightened Tutor and if you want to go UWR Imperial Recruiter..

that's the best combo of the three you posted.

Hexmage's combo scoops to a StP

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I think apple is right. Two combos whose part are either interchangebla or at least tutorable by the same cards, are better then three. I like the Helm/Leyline/RiP/Painter approach, because RiP and LotV laughs at format, otoh, losing to Leyline of Sanctity sucks, and Marit Lage dodges it.

[uncletiggy]

I'm gonna work on a list when I get home tonight but I'm shifting discard to the board loosing the one mana tutors in favor of some grisley salvage and the one from theros that hits enchantments uping the fast mana count and craming chalice in for some seriously broken early game ill probably go to a 3/3 split between rip and lotv. Ill post a my initial test list but I think the main deck is going to be really strong agaisnt much of the field I think were looking at next level eva depths

[uncletiggy]

So I put this together with changes I said before only managed to work in two matches so far on cockatrice sadly against alluren and nourishing lich :rolleyes: 4-0 so far

[Captain Hammer]

Would love to see your test list Uncletiggy.

[uncletiggy]

here's my list

4 Chrome mox
4 Lotus petal
4 Chalice of the void
3 Helm of obedience
1 Scroll rack

4 Leyline of the void
2 Rest in peace
2 Sylvan library

2 Dark confidant
3 Vampire hexmage

3 Abrupt decay
2 Grisly salvage

4 living wish

4 ancient tomb
2 urborg tomb of yagmoth
2 thespian stage
3 dark depths
4 verdant catacombs
2 windswept heath
1 bayou
1 savanah
1 scrubland
1 forest
1 swamp

SB:
2 pithing needle
2 golgari charms
2 duress
2 thought seize
1 maelstrom pulse
1 toxic deluge

1 phyrexian revoker
1 vampire hexmage
1 thespian stage
1 darkdepths
1 wasteland

[FosterTheSnowMan]

Was just looking at this deck as I always love decks that have more than just one combo and I saw uncletiggy's list with a scroll tax Was just wondering if there might be a spot for Land Tax. Just wondering.

[apple713]

Was just looking at this deck as I always love decks that have more than just one combo and I saw uncletiggy's list with a scroll tax Was just wondering if there might be a spot for Land Tax. Just wondering.

looks like he's aiming for chalice on 1. not sure why but that probably y he's not playing land tax. if chalice is there to save marit form STP take chalice out and play something else. STP is the least of all the threats to marit lage.

Mirri's guile is better than sylvan library if your not aiming chalice at 1

[uncletiggy]

Chalice is there because it does work in every matchup and out right wins games. Hitting swords to plowshares is just a bonus. So far I'm unimpressed with salvage and w ould like to see a qasali pridemage or harmonic sliver in the wish board for things like ensnaring bridge.

[Captain Hammer]

here's my list

4 Chrome mox
4 Lotus petal
4 Chalice of the void
3 Helm of obedience
1 Scroll rack

4 Leyline of the void
2 Rest in peace
2 Sylvan library

2 Dark confidant
3 Vampire hexmage

3 Abrupt decay
2 Grisly salvage

4 living wish

4 ancient tomb
2 urborg tomb of yagmoth
2 thespian stage
3 dark depths
4 verdant catacombs
2 windswept heath
1 bayou
1 savanah
1 scrubland
1 forest
1 swamp

SB:
2 pithing needle
2 golgari charms
2 duress
2 thought seize
1 maelstrom pulse
1 toxic deluge

1 phyrexian revoker
1 vampire hexmage
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths
1 wasteland

That's a really solid looking list unclettigy. Thank you for posting it.

However, given the direction, you went with the deck, Im inclined to ask if the deck might be better served without Chalice (or the Helm combo) instead accommodating...
4 Crop Rotation
2-4 Knight of Reliquary

With Duress/Thoughtseize filling the role that Chalice played.

I dont feel Helm combo has a role if youre not playing a tutor (Enlightened Tutor) that can fetch up atleast one of the combo pieces.

[uncletiggy]

Chalice is staying for certain it wins too many games by locking people out of cantrips and buying time discard is a one shot use and more of speed bump then a wall that needs climbed. the helm combo is the secondary win con I'm not concerned about tutoring it up as the pieces actually serve as relevant hate in certain combo and aggro matches that come online turn 0 and aren't hosed by leyline of sanctity. Helm also can be put in off of show and tell ftw but is counterable so I'd rather not waste mana getting two for oned e tutering my five mana win con only to get dazed or forced or pierced. For now the salvages need to be further analized as they are the weakest cards in the 75 but they are usually imprinted on chalice so their value is two fold scroll rack is also on the chopping block for maybe another decay or library

[Captain Hammer]

Chalice is staying for certain it wins too many games by locking people out of cantrips and buying time discard is a one shot use and more of speed bump then a wall that needs climbed. the helm combo is the secondary win con I'm not concerned about tutoring it up as the pieces actually serve as relevant hate in certain combo and aggro matches that come online turn 0 and aren't hosed by leyline of sanctity. Helm also can be put in off of show and tell ftw but is counterable so I'd rather not waste mana getting two for oned e tutering my five mana win con only to get dazed or forced or pierced. For now the salvages need to be further analized as they are the weakest cards in the 75 but they are usually imprinted on chalice so their value is two fold scroll rack is also on the chopping block for maybe another decay or library

Great points. And I really do like Abrupt Decay in the deck as well. The other card I am looking at is Knight of Reliquary. It's such a solid ground pounder plus it tutors for your combo pieces.

[uncletiggy]

lol a little bit of a three month delay on that one... this was the list I finally settled on:

2 Vampire Hexmage
2 Dark Confidant

2 Sylvan Library
4 Living Wish
2 Into the North
2 Life from the Loam

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Rest in Peace
3 Helm of Obedience
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Mox Diamond

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Crystal Vein
1 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Peacekeeper

The board is still in progress but the main deck attacks from so many angles I haven't ironed out which of the three plans you really want to be on in each match-up chalice, depth's, or helm. I honestly haven't been seriously testing it it's my fun free win deck on cockatrice because sometimes LoTV + chalice @1 = rage quits

[GoboLord]

lol a little bit of a three month delay on that one... this was the list I finally settled on:

2 Vampire Hexmage
2 Dark Confidant

2 Sylvan Library
4 Living Wish
2 Into the North
2 Life from the Loam

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Rest in Peace
3 Helm of Obedience
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Mox Diamond

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Crystal Vein
1 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 1 Wasteland
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Peacekeeper

The board is still in progress but the main deck attacks from so many angles I haven't ironed out which of the three plans you really want to be on in each match-up chalice, depth's, or helm. I honestly haven't been seriously testing it it's my fun free win deck on cockatrice because sometimes LoTV + chalice @1 = rage quits

Few questions:

(1)
Why do you play "Into the North" > "Crop Rotation". Is it bc of Chalice of the Void?

(2)
Did you consider Grim Discovery to ro resurrect Vampire Hexmage and/or Dark Depth/Thespian Stage? Could also occassionally be nice to get your PEacekeeper back.

(3)
Back in the days when StifleNaught was a deck a guy around here used to play a 2-combo-deck with Stifle+Dreadnought and Hexmage + Depths. He ran Lim-Dul's Vault as a tutor, which I found quite efficient since both of your combos don't require many cards in hand (which is a good prerequisite for the card-disadvantage of LDV) nor do you need a high lifetotal (exept for Bob, ofc). And: it costs 2 mana, so it'S out of Chalice's usual range.

[uncletiggy]

Into the north is a consession to chalice you are correct.

grim discovery is sweet tech I was certainly unaware of i also have a jund list more focused on the depths plan that could benifit from this thanks for the heads up