Meta Direction

[testing32]

Based on the GP and SCG results -

This is the first time in a long time that RUG hasn't been in the top 16 of an SCG event. The deck is probably having a rough time with TNN. It doesn't really have good answers for a resolved TNN. Daze and REB aren't good enough answers.

Esperblade and snapcaster is back and is probably the best deck.

There seem to be 2 delver decks still vying for the top tempo spot. It will be interesting to see which one wins out. My money is on BUG based on the really solid SB options that black provides as well as the two pronged attack of discard and counters on combo.

The best sword is now clearly fire and ice.

Show and tell also isn't going anywhere.

Where does it go from here?

My guess is that the esper lists will become better tuned and really tough to beat. The lists are in flux right now and are still putting up good results. It's going to be hard to find a deck that can consistently beat them.

[Adryan]

The best deck in a meta full of fair decks is probably "Jund Control" with more PW and no BBE. But people are too stupid/lazy to build something like that.

[testing32]

The best deck in a meta full of fair decks is probably "Jund Control" with more PW and no BBE. But people are too stupid/lazy to build something like that.

I disagree. A planeswalker control deck with no jace and brainstorm doesn't sound correct.

Legacy isn't a wide open as people would like to think it is.

[nedleeds]

The best deck to play is a deck with Brainstorm. 7 of 8 ... and to think Survival got banned for being dominant.

[TheArchitect]

The best deck in a meta full of fair decks is probably "Jund Control" with more PW and no BBE. But people are too stupid/lazy to build something like that.

You mean like nic fit, or more specifically scapewish nic fit? Those decks often dont even bother with target removal, a 3/1 is pretty unimpressive when you are casting deeds, damnations, grave titans or scapeshifts for 36 damage.

All of the "prays on fair blue decks" decks will be good: 12 post, sneak and show, MUD, UB Tezz, Nic Fit, Punishing Jund, Burn, etc.

Also, the meta will adapt, there are million ways to deal with a 3/1 without targeting or damaging it.

[Adryan]

I disagree. A planeswalker control deck with no jace and brainstorm doesn't sound correct.

Legacy isn't a wide open as people would like to think it is.

What is Jace doing against Punishing Fire and Xenagos? Dying? The most powerful tool for every control deck is SDT, not Brainstorm because the longer the game goes the better SDT is than BS.

[apple713]

What is Jace doing against Punishing Fire and Xenagos? Dying? The most powerful tool for every control deck is SDT, not Brainstorm because the longer the game goes the better SDT is than BS.

Pretty sure your wrong on brainstorm vs sdt. 50% of all legacy decks play brainstorm but a significantly smaller portion plays sdt. Sdt is colorless so it could be played even by decks that are not. Blue and yet brainstorm hAs significantly more of the meta than sdt

[clavio]

The best deck to play is a deck with Brainstorm. 7 of 8 ... and to think Survival got banned for being dominant.

8 of 8 played lands! :-0

[Adryan]

Pretty sure your wrong on brainstorm vs sdt. 50% of all legacy decks play brainstorm but a significantly smaller portion plays sdt. Sdt is colorless so it could be played even by decks that are not. Blue and yet brainstorm hAs significantly more of the meta than sdt

To my knowledge there is only one pure Controldeck in the DTB section.... not every legacy deck that plays blue is a control deck ;)

[testing32]

To my knowledge there is only one pure Controldeck in the DTB section.... not every legacy deck that plays blue is a control deck ;)

Every good one plays blue

[Erdvermampfa]

Playing Brainstorm in control is wrong anyways, at least if you're not trying to assemble incorporated combos.

[Julian23]

Playing Brainstorm in control is wrong anyways, at least if you're not trying to assemble incorporated combos.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Griselpuff]

Funny that you don't even play Brainstorm right now Julian :P

I agree, I think UWR and BUG are two of the best decks right now. Also really strong are Elves, TrueBlade and Sneak and Show.

[Wilkin]

Based on the GP and SCG results -

This is the first time in a long time that RUG hasn't been in the top 16 of an SCG event. The deck is probably having a rough time with TNN. It doesn't really have good answers for a resolved TNN. Daze and REB aren't good enough answers.

Esperblade and snapcaster is back and is probably the best deck.

There seem to be 2 delver decks still vying for the top tempo spot. It will be interesting to see which one wins out. My money is on BUG based on the really solid SB options that black provides as well as the two pronged attack of discard and counters on combo.

The best sword is now clearly fire and ice.

Show and tell also isn't going anywhere.

Where does it go from here?

My guess is that the esper lists will become better tuned and really tough to beat. The lists are in flux right now and are still putting up good results. It's going to be hard to find a deck that can consistently beat them.

If it's Esper blade build or another 3 color Delver, I think a deck like Imperial Painter can do well, especially one that has Ensnaring Bridge main.

And someone mentioned Jund. Hmmm.....if the meta does shift towards Delver/TNN builds then yeah, Jund would be a good choice. Golgari Charm is an awesome card....
kills True-Name Nemesis.
Kills an unflipped Delver
Hurts Elves a lot
Can take out a Leyline of Sanctity vs Sneak attack deck (I guess it can take out Sneak attack too but if opponent has open red, you are still screwed)
And can protect your guys from say Pyroclasm.

[mini1337s]

Playing Brainstorm in control is wrong anyways, at least if you're not trying to assemble incorporated combos.
http://i.imgur.com/sXkmrwU.jpg

[BlackPurple]

Playing Brainstorm in control is wrong anyways, at least if you're not trying to assemble incorporated combos.

GG

[twndomn]

Are you people tired of Sneak and Show taking over Legacy trophies yet?

How about after Sneak and Show slaying all the TNN decks to take the trophy in style? Still don't care?

Why pay attention to all the lazy players who paid the money to make Death and Taxes only to find out it does nothing to TNN? You know they just want TNN banned so their deck would be competitive again.

[rancOr_]

So TNN does put up results as expected. I agree that there are more then enough answers for it and the meta will adjust. Some decks that don't have troubles with TNN and are competitive: Elves, Jund, BG(x),Imperial Painter, Shardless bug, Miracles, ANT, Sneaky Show,.. So there are more then enough decks that can beat TNN decks even non-blue ones. I think pple will realize that Liliana/Toxic deluge are huge atm, and decks like Jund/BG will get more popular as they beat all the fair decks and have a decent shot against combo when build properly.. Also as I said IP laughs at these decks. Same with most combo decks so yeah..no need to worry IMHO. Grtz

[dontbiteitholmes]

Based on the GP and SCG results -

This is the first time in a long time that RUG hasn't been in the top 16 of an SCG event. The deck is probably having a rough time with TNN. It doesn't really have good answers for a resolved TNN. Daze and REB aren't good enough answers.

Esperblade and snapcaster is back and is probably the best deck.

There seem to be 2 delver decks still vying for the top tempo spot. It will be interesting to see which one wins out. My money is on BUG based on the really solid SB options that black provides as well as the two pronged attack of discard and counters on combo.

The best sword is now clearly fire and ice.

Show and tell also isn't going anywhere.

Where does it go from here?

My guess is that the esper lists will become better tuned and really tough to beat. The lists are in flux right now and are still putting up good results. It's going to be hard to find a deck that can consistently beat them.

I think more than RUG losing outright to TNN people who play RUG were worried about losing to TNN and thus switched to RUW or BUG which are probably just more relevant decks right now with Stifle falling slightly out of favor. In decks without ramp it's still entirely reasonable for RUG to delay that 3rd mana until turn 4 and then just have counters on top of that, also Blasts and Vortex out of the board don't hurt (plus Grudge for equipment) so I don't think it's unwinnable by any means (and I know people who had a similar experience with the deck at the GP). That said I don't think RUG is where you want to be right now with so many other strong options, also it can have issues against TNN hate cards.


Are you people tired of Sneak and Show taking over Legacy trophies yet?

How about after Sneak and Show slaying all the TNN decks to take the trophy in style? Still don't care?

Why pay attention to all the lazy players who paid the money to make Death and Taxes only to find out it does nothing to TNN? You know they just want TNN banned so their deck would be competitive again.

I don't even know about that. I mean I watched some of those SCG matches and the D&T player against TNN played pretty suboptimal magic and was still in it till the bitter end. They ended up going to time but there were points where he misplayed and it set him back. Also there are legit options for D&T sideboards against TNN that haven't been showing up yet, only time will tell if they will make a difference. (also most of the money in D&T is in the Karakas and I don't think anyone can be mad about buying Karakas, definitely not a card I see going down in value anytime soon)

[Tylert]

Are you people tired of Sneak and Show taking over Legacy trophies yet?

How about after Sneak and Show slaying all the TNN decks to take the trophy in style? Still don't care?

Why pay attention to all the lazy players who paid the money to make Death and Taxes only to find out it does nothing to TNN? You know they just want TNN banned so their deck would be competitive again.

D&T does not need to deal with TNN. It just needs to race TNN, and it is largely capable of doing so with its multiple flyers.

[Finn]

Yeah, D+T is mostly going with being faster as a preboard plan. Mother of Runes helps a fair bit here. Selecting flying options instead of ground (Aven Mindcensor over Leonin Arbiter, Serra Avenger over Mirran Crusader, don't cut the Flickerwisps) helps. Sword of Fire and Ice back in the main is a key component as it does extra damage and can force through a ground pounder. Finally, we have a number of (bitter pill) options from the board. Taken as a whole, it is a decent plan. Not great.

RUG on the other hand looks to be in bad shape. I bet that the numbers from November will be the first ever since Tarmo in which RUG is not amongst the very top decks. December should be even moreso as number of players drops.

My hope is that the black decks will load up on the hate, keeping the number of TNNs to a reasonable amount.

[Megadeus]

If I had the money and cared to play a competitive deck I'd be on Elves. After watching it at the GP and hearing and reading Julians report, the deck is stupid good. You get to ignore TNN for the most part, and you can theoretically outrace combo.

[Final Fortune]

RUG is dead, you're either on True Name Nemesis or /black, or on True Name Nemesis and /black if you think Zealous Persecution is as good of an option as Golgari Charm and Tombstalker. Sword of Fire/Ice is probably better than Umezawa's Jitte right now, especially if you can form Voltron with a Batterskull.

I think I'd be looking at non Storm combo or aggro right now, with all the blue decks running TNN and/or Delver and concentrating on -1/1 sweepers, something like LED Dredge or Affinity could probably tear a whole in the format while everybody plays TNN, anti-TNN etc. and other decks like Goblins and Elves take the SB flack pretty hard.

[Tormod]

The best sword is now clearly fire and ice.


Sword of Feast and Famine is still the best sword
Sword of Fire and Ice is the best sword if you're NOT running True Name Nemesis

[Megadeus]

FaF is awesome. Seems underplayed. Everyone just wants to be able to attack through a true name right now.

[nedleeds]

RUG is dead

Bwahahaha ... I love the internet. What an absurd statement.

[Tormod]

Canadian Thresh certainly isn't dead.

More Canadian Thresh lists made Day 2 followed by Death and Taxes at GPDC

There were TWO 13-2 Thresh lists at GPDC.

[Zombie]

If I had the money and cared to play a competitive deck I'd be on Elves. After watching it at the GP and hearing and reading Julians report, the deck is stupid good. You get to ignore TNN for the most part, and you can theoretically outrace combo.

You don't, as a rule. You're slower than the very fast decks, about as fast as ANT (but without maindeck discard), and probably a bit faster than SnT. The meta slot Elves has is about the same as Shardless, Jund and Nic Fit try to occupy - the ultimate fair deck muncher that happens to be soft to combo. Of course, you munch fair decks super well, having a good matchup against most anything and not being that horridly soft to combo anymore. It's just a stupid good deck though, all told. As long as you can dodge Miracles or your name is Julian Knab.

[Finn]

I dunno guys. TNN looks pretty bad for RUG. I suppose we will see.

[apple713]

Playing Brainstorm in control is wrong anyways, at least if you're not trying to assemble incorporated combos.


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


Uh o, I think Erdvermampfa committed a cardinal sin.

[Final Fortune]

Canadian Thresh certainly isn't dead.

More Canadian Thresh lists made Day 2 followed by Death and Taxes at GPDC

There were TWO 13-2 Thresh lists at GPDC.

Making D2 is of little consequence, give it enough time and people are going to realize how badly RUG is positioned right now - people are always slow to let go of their loved ones.

[nedleeds]

I dunno guys. TNN looks pretty bad for RUG. I suppose we will see.

A 3 mana main phase spell that requires UU? I don't get it. How is this back breaking for RUG? Don't they also play lands that make red mana? I'd be more scared of a resolved and protected SFM if I was an internet RUG player.

[testing32]

I played RUG to D2 of DC. I chose RUG b/c of how tuned the list was and I didn't want to bring a brew to a GP. As the new meta has started to firm there is no way I would bring RUG now.

There were also availability problems for TNN at the GP.

[twndomn]

All the Vial decks that don't run Deathrite Shaman and True Name Nemesis have to consider their game plan going forward. Currently, people are freaking out about TNN much like when DRS became popular, everyone was jamming DRS into their deck, remember that time?

At least some intelligent people are using their heads, trying to revive Pox. The intention was good, but I have not seen any decent results. The only trend I spot is that WUR Delver with TNN is better than RUG Delver. At some point the number of copies of TNN in a given tournament will be larger than the number of copies of Goyf. That's about where the meta would stabilize.

[Megadeus]

The 12th place Pox list was sweet. Mainboard Night of Soul's Betrayal? Yes please.

[Arsenal]

I'd be more scared of a resolved and protected SFM if I was an internet RUG player.

I agree. When a SFM player gets to untap with SFM still alive (after tutoring for Batterskull), that game is nigh unwinnable. Whereas you can race 1-2 TNN with your dudes + Bolts, you cannot race a Batterskull. Now if they have SFM + TNN, then gtfo and kill me already...

[thecrav]

Making D2 is of little consequence, give it enough time and people are going to realize how badly RUG is positioned right now - people are always slow to let go of their loved ones.

Does that include the people whose "loved ones" are this idea that TNN should be banned?

[lavafrogg]

I dunno guys. TNN looks pretty bad for RUG. I suppose we will see.

Nemesis still doesn't block delvers or burn and can be countered/denied just like any other spell.3 is the new 4 obviously, haven't you heard?;p

[Tormod]

Making D2 is of little consequence, give it enough time and people are going to realize how badly RUG is positioned right now - people are always slow to let go of their loved ones.

I've heard all these sob stories before.
Rest in Peace was supposed to kill RUG
Deathrite shaman was supposed to kill RUG
Abrupt decay was supposed to kill RUG
and now True Name Nemesis is supposed to kill RUG?

Are you saying that tempo is dead?
Are you saying a resolve True-Name equals GG?
You can't kill tempo, because its a STRATEGY.

TWO RUG decks went 13-2 as well to finish top 16 and win themselves a invite to PTBNG, is that of any consequence?
What is of no consequence is making prediction about the future based on conjecture.

[Griselpuff]

RUG is still the top deck in terms of having most high placing finishes since the release of C13. This is including the early tournaments in Europe/Eternal Weekend where there might have been TNN supply issues.

I'll be writing a metagame analysis article that should be up in a week or so, so stay tuned! :laugh: