Making a public complaint on the Reserved list

[BVB09]

Hi,
First of all, I'm sorry if this post doesn't belong to this subforum, I wasn't sure where to post it.

I was wondering if It would be interesting to make a public complaint, like collecting signatures, a Trending topic hashtag on twitter, etc... about the Reserved List.
As the attendance to tournaments all over the worlds shows, with the lastest example of the GP, the Legacy community is huge, and we're becoming more and more and creating a really interesting format.
I know WotC has said they won't reprint cards in the Reserved List. But I can't be the only who thinks if they had a good reason, they would. It's known that they like the lists even less than we do. Only card collector like it, and even though I have a big collection I would love to see it gone.

I'm convinced that by doing something like this we can catch the attention of WotC at least, and make they think aboout this.
Come on, we are thousands and thousands of players, a situation like this, where the company loses money because of one politic and has the huge mayority of their players against it, can't prevail in the future. It's completely ridiculous.

I would love to hear your thoughts. :)

[JanoschEausH]

I don't think they care as long as it's not inherently profitable.

What i mean is:

1. Buying booster packs is the worst thing anyone can do (from a financial point of view) in each and every format.
2. You will always be better off, buying single cards for your deck.
3. Sadly, Wizards business modell is selling booster packs and not selling single cards.

Therefore: As long as they won't change their business modell, Legacy players are not customers but rather a nuisance in their eyes.

And even if they removed the reserved list. What would happen? They won't be able to print most of the cards on that list in regular expansions anyways due to the power level of Standard. They could create non-standard-legal products featuring cards from the reserved list. The problem with this is, that they wouldn't be able to financially profit from this product over a long time. It's like a cure for cancer which has to be taken once to prevent getting cancer for the rest of one's life. No one would produce this shit, because having alot people take cancer medicals over and over again is way more profitable. Coming back to Legacy: It would be a one-time thing. At the same time they would be destroying the capital of almost every single-cards-shop there is and devaluate collections all over the planet.

[kingsey]

Just save your $ and buy the cards you want.

[Griselpuff]

This was an interesting proposal:

http://accordingtowhim.blogspot.com/2013/07/magic-gathering-solution-to-reserved.html

[PirateKing]

As has been said before, removed from the Reserve List does not move them any closer towards reprinting anything. Lots of cards aren't on the reserved list. Wake me up when they reprint Force of Will

[Tormod]

I think you need to approach an audience that doesn't have Legacy cards that wants them.

Most Legacy guys already know the deal and have adapted for the existing market.

If you get something going, I'll sign

[Malchar]

Speaking as someone who traded a bunch of stuff for Phyrexian Dreadnoughts right before they announced that they would print a judge foil version, I actually appreciate the reserved list.

[Mr.C]

inb4 lock.

Speaking as someone with a five-figure collection, fuck it, reprint everything. They won't until it makes financial sense, though, so don't get your hopes up.

[apple713]

inb4 lock.

Speaking as someone with a five-figure collection, fuck it, reprint everything. They won't until it makes financial sense, though, so don't get your hopes up.

if they simply just promoted legacy and held more than 2 GP's / PT's a year for it it would make a lot of financial sense. I think if they held a legacy masters prices would probably be fine. The packs would have to be outrageously expensive though.

[prateta]

I'd truly appreciate this. Something like Modern Masters for Legacy, yeah. Because, think about it. You want to play legacy (more than one deck, maybe? Have more fun?). You have to buy lands, which are basically the essential stuff in legacy. You can't reach competitive play w/o proper land base, which is often the most expensive part of the deck.

Why should I pay the biggest amount money for freaking footsoldiers? Lands are the basic stuff, it shouldn't be the most expensive part of the deck. It makes no sense. I'd love to see some old lands reprinted. Let away dual lands, at least Wastelands and lands like Karakas, Rishadan Port, City of Traitors etc...

The deal is, Wizards don't really want to support legacy players, because as has been said before, we are very little profit for them. That's why they invented Modern and why they're supporting it so much. In my town I've allready noticed many long-time legacy players have moved to Modern. Simply because they can play more decks for less money, there is more support from Wizards etc.

I'm not sure what would need to happen for Wizards to start supporting legacy. In my opinion, they don't realise that there are thousands of legacy players, which (if the marketing is good) can make them even more money than Modern. Because, let's face it. Rich people (or people who can save money; those who put a lot of money into MtG) play legacy. The moment they realise this, the shit is gonna happen.

[Barook]

I'd truly appreciate this. Something like Modern Masters for Legacy, yeah. Because, think about it. You want to play legacy (more than one deck, maybe? Have more fun?). You have to buy lands, which are basically the essential stuff in legacy. You can't reach competitive play w/o proper land base, which is often the most expensive part of the deck.

Why should I pay the biggest amount money for freaking footsoldiers? Lands are the basic stuff, it shouldn't be the most expensive part of the deck. It makes no sense. I'd love to see some old lands reprinted. Let away dual lands, at least Wastelands and lands like Karakas, Rishadan Port, City of Traitors etc...

The deal is, Wizards don't really want to support legacy players, because as has been said before, we are very little profit for them. That's why they invented Modern and why they're supporting it so much. In my town I've allready noticed many long-time legacy players have moved to Modern. Simply because they can play more decks for less money, there is more support from Wizards etc.

I'm not sure what would need to happen for Wizards to start supporting legacy. In my opinion, they don't realise that there are thousands of legacy players, which (if the marketing is good) can make them even more money than Modern. Because, let's face it. Rich people (or people who can save money; those who put a lot of money into MtG) play legacy. The moment they realise this, the shit is gonna happen.
But they already make money from us in the most exploitable way possible - see: Commander sets, especially 2013 with TNN.

One deck with chase cards (TNN and Baleful Strix) and to get it, the retailer has to order the entire batch of 5 Commander decks.

And the cost argument is pretty bad since Modern also got extremely expensive, especially decks that share staples with Legacy. See: Jund.

[thecrav]

inb4 lock.

Speaking as someone with a five-figure collection, fuck it, reprint everything.

Seconded

[apple713]

But they already make money from us in the most exploitable way possible - see: Commander sets, especially 2013 with TNN.

One deck with chase cards (TNN and Baleful Strix) and to get it, the retailer has to order the entire batch of 5 Commander decks.

And the cost argument is pretty bad since Modern also got extremely expensive, especially decks that share staples with Legacy. See: Jund.

legacy players don't buy commander decks and keep them. casual players buy commander decks and legacy players trade for them. I bought 2 mind seize decks and sold the TNN's just cause i wanted the rest of the pack for free. I think TNN is trash because I play combo so its a non issue for me.

[socialite]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QiHaQZKXE9g/UF14-eA4SWI/AAAAAAAACuU/VHZDNgSw3LI/s1600/jill-greenberg-crying-photoshopped-babies-end-times-17.jpg

[prateta]

And the cost argument is pretty bad since Modern also got extremely expensive, especially decks that share staples with Legacy. See: Jund.

Please compare modern mana base (in general) with legacy. There is much more logic in modern, since the mana base is almost free compared to legacy.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Please compare modern mana base (in general) with legacy. There is much more logic in modern, since the mana base is almost free compared to legacy.

Tundra = Hallowed Fountain
Tropical Island = Breeding Pool
Badlands = Blood Crypt
Scrubland = Godless Shrine
Volcanic Island = Steam Vents
Underground Sea = Watery Grave
Savannah = Temple Garden
Taiga = Stomping Ground
Plateau = Sacred Foundry
Bayou = Overgrown Tomb

[prateta]

Yes. New duals are many times cheaper. They're ok for modern as there is nothing else. They are shit for legacy.

Sent from my Lenovo S920_ROW using Tapatalk

[BVB09]

This was an interesting proposal:

http://accordingtowhim.blogspot.com/2013/07/magic-gathering-solution-to-reserved.html

Yes, that's a very very good idea from my point of view (however a decade may be too long).
But I never had heard of it, italso had 0 comments. That's the problem, we haven't had a voice powerfull enough to reach WotC.
That's why I think we could do something big that caught their attention...


I don't think they care as long as it's not inherently profitable.

What i mean is:

1. Buying booster packs is the worst thing anyone can do (from a financial point of view) in each and every format.
2. You will always be better off, buying single cards for your deck.
3. Sadly, Wizards business modell is selling booster packs and not selling single cards.

Therefore: As long as they won't change their business modell, Legacy players are not customers but rather a nuisance in their eyes.

And even if they removed the reserved list. What would happen? They won't be able to print most of the cards on that list in regular expansions anyways due to the power level of Standard. They could create non-standard-legal products featuring cards from the reserved list. The problem with this is, that they wouldn't be able to financially profit from this product over a long time. It's like a cure for cancer which has to be taken once to prevent getting cancer for the rest of one's life. No one would produce this shit, because having alot people take cancer medicals over and over again is way more profitable. Coming back to Legacy: It would be a one-time thing. At the same time they would be destroying the capital of almost every single-cards-shop there is and devaluate collections all over the planet.

They'll know how to make money out of it. They have a marketing or development department or whatever to do so. Printing a cards costs 0.02 to them and there's people happy to pay $140 for an Underground Sea. The market obviously exists.
A limited print edition like Modern Masters could be the answer. But even "Legacy preconstructed decks" featuring one dual or 2 fecthlands, 5 per year for example, could keep them getting more throught years.
Also they could increase the number of GPs they make every year. I'm sure they'll make a lot of money from that. They probably like this list even less than we do.


As has been said before, removed from the Reserve List does not move them any closer towards reprinting anything. Lots of cards aren't on the reserved list. Wake me up when they reprint Force of Will

I know, but obviously by doing this it's clear that we want the cards to be actually reprinted.


Speaking as someone who traded a bunch of stuff for Phyrexian Dreadnoughts right before they announced that they would print a judge foil version, I actually appreciate the reserved list.

I think that prefering to have thousands of players unable to get into the format and doesn't leting this format grow and be more diverse for a couple bucks it's a really selfish attitude...

[Mr.C]

Now that I think about it more, Modern Masters showed them that they can jam expensive cards in packs, mark up the price and immediately sell all the product.

If I were in sales, I'd be thinking about the crazy amounts of money we could make by reprinting just non-P9 cards. They could retail @ $30 per pack and people would be lining up outside stores to buy that stuff. If there were foil Duals in them, holy crap. I don't doubt there are people at Hasbro going "hmmm... I wonder if it's worth it to cash into the massive popularity of Magic right now..."

[Stan]

Not this shit again. They won't abolish that list, ever. Pleeeeeeeeeeeease accept that and move on. It doesn't matter how vocal you are about your butthurt sense of entitlement, you have absolutely no say in this matter.

[Mr.C]

Not this shit again. They won't abolish that list, ever. Pleeeeeeeeeeeease accept that and move on. It doesn't matter how vocal you are about your butthurt sense of entitlement, you have absolutely no say in this matter.

And here we go again. Took a while, this time.

[prateta]

Not this shit again. They won't abolish that list, ever. Pleeeeeeeeeeeease accept that and move on. It doesn't matter how vocal you are about your butthurt sense of entitlement, you have absolutely no say in this matter.

Can't we be discussing the fact that reserved list is killing the Legacy format? The only butthurt in this topic is you.

[copywriter]

Even though I own Alpha Power I would love to see reprints. I want to play with my cards, not just look at them.

Tell me where to sign and how to spread the word.


- from Norway

[Luklinda]

Can't we be discussing the fact that reserved list is killing the Legacy format? The only butthurt in this topic is you.

I don't understand what you're talking about; legacy isn't being killed or dying off from anything. The format is still growing and larger than ever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magic:_The_Gathering_Grand_Prix_events

Attendance for GP's is through the roof and even if WotC is cutting back on legacy GP's next year, SCG is increasing the number of legacy tournaments.

Reserved list exists, the company has no reason to change/alter it so... flap away as much as you want but they're not gonna do anything about it. Might not be the best for players, but from the companies perspective there is absolutely zero incentive to produce reprints at this point. Especially with modern so young and WotC pushing that format.

[Malchar]

Why should I pay the biggest amount money for freaking footsoldiers? Lands are the basic stuff, it shouldn't be the most expensive part of the deck. It makes no sense. I'd love to see some old lands reprinted. Let away dual lands, at least Wastelands and lands like Karakas, Rishadan Port, City of Traitors etc...

Land aren't "footsoldiers". Mother of Runes, Delver of Secrets, Putrid Imp, Grim Lavamancer, and Llanowar Elves are footsoldiers. They also aren't "the basic stuff". Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest are the basic stuff, and the prices for those are actually very reasonable.

Dual lands aren't used in every deck. They are only used in specific multi-color decks. Even something as ubiquitous as Wasteland is only used in about 25% of decks at most. The other nonbasics are really only used in one or two specific archetypes, just like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Imperial Recruiter, or Imperial Seal.

[Stan]

Why should I pay the biggest amount money for freaking footsoldiers? Lands are the basic stuff, it shouldn't be the most expensive part of the deck. It makes no sense. I'd love to see some old lands reprinted. Let away dual lands, at least Wastelands and lands like Karakas, Rishadan Port, City of Traitors etc...

Nothing personal against this person, but this is not a butthurt sense of entitlement? Boo hoo I want to play with the cool cards but they cost too much. I have a wife, an 11 month old son and I'm currently building a house, and I can play legacy. Get a job, it helps.

You're not petitioning a government, people. This is a private company. They decide their corporate policy, and they don't owe you an explanation for it. They heard who they wanted to hear about it, and if you are reading this and you are not Ben Bleiweis or Steve Menendian, you weren't invited because they don't really care about what you have to say.

Do I wish that they'd reprint duals? Of course. Do I have any delusions that whining and bitching about how I want that on an internet forum matters? Hell no. Their sales are booming, tournament attendance in every supported format, including Legacy is up, and shareholders are happy. Nobody cares what randominternetguy54986235 has to say about it. You're not fightin' da man, you're boring your fellow forumusers with the umpteenth thread about the same, useless topic. Grow up.

/endrant

[thecrav]

Dual lands aren't used in every deck. They are only used in specific multi-color decks.

Where "specific mult-color decks" means "all multi color decks that aren't affinity"

[stage]

It's pretty foolish to pretend Legacy is not an expensive format. Outside of a few fringe decks like Burn, Affinity, and Oops, All Spells!, you're playing an inexpensive deck if you "only" spend $800-1000. I don't know how this compares to other card games, but it's certainly a significant amount of money for most people, especially those who have dependents or don't have a full-time job.

The cost evidently isn't harming the format that much, though, judging by recent tournament attendance, and Wizards has made it pretty clear that they won't reprint Reserved List cards come hell or high water, no matter how many petitions.

It seems like there are many topics to debate which actually produce actionable conclusions, including the following:

1) Should Wizards reprint mid- to high-price staples, such as Wasteland, Karakas, Port, FoW, Tarmogoyf, fetches, Jace, TNN, and Show and Tell?
2) Should Wizards more systematically reprint expensive, lesser-used cards like Grim Tutor?
3) How extensive should reprints be? Should they be in English only, or multiple languages? Should they include foils?
4) Should Wizards set price targets (floors, or ceilings, or both) for cards, possibly depending on factors like rarity and date originally printed?
5) Should Wizards continue printing mythic rares?

My opinion (response to (1)-(4))

I think the goal should be to minimize the financial barrier to entry for competitive Legacy while minimizing the relative decrease in the values of current collections. I believe Wizards should reprint mid- to high-price staples fairly extensively in English nonfoil with relatively very limited, if any, foil or foreign reprints. Wizards would promise to fairly strictly adhere to price targets for staples based on rarity and time since original printing, and would issue reprints semifrequently with quantities depending on cards' deviation from these targets. Reprints would be in great enough quantity that their wholesale price would far exceed average cost of production, so Wizards and players would both be able to benefit from this system.

[Higgs]

I've seen this idea of reprinting non-reserve list staples come up several times and it seems to make a lot of sense at first sight. However what most people are missing is that, easier access to these staples would increase the demand for this format and therefore put a higher strain on the prices of reserve list cards. You'd have more people with FoWs and Jaces who'd want to build Brainstorm decks but the amount of blue duals would remain the same. I think this would stretch the availability problems way too much and end up actually harming the format.

Btw Stan, very good post. I wished this forum had a like button.

[Julian23]

While the thought itself follows some kind of logic, I can't agree with the conclusion.

What you are basically saying is: the more people play Legacy, the worse.

[Higgs]

Not really. For more people to play Legacy you have to give them all. If you give people half and not give the other half, then there'll be an even greater demand for the not given half and that half will still put the upper cap on the amount of people who can play the format as they like. Pivotal reserve list cards, such as dual lands, will still dictate the availability. What good is Jace and FoW without U. Seas or Tundras?

[Julian23]

Not really. For more people to play Legacy you have to give them all. If you give people half and not give the other half, then there'll be an even greater demand for the not given half and that half will still put the upper cap on the amount of people who can play the format as they like. Pivotal reserve list cards, such as dual lands, will still dictate the availability. What good is Jace and FoW without U. Seas or Tundras?

I draw the opposite conclusion here. The more people that want to play the format, the better for the format. If this means prices rising, it also means that more people are actually playing the format...and that's the most important part in the first place. If prices are not rising, there's had probably been no influx of new players to the format.

On another note, even if dual lands were to rise in pricd due to additional interest to play the format, the initial cost to break into it would still be lower than now if WotC were to reprint non-reserved list staples such as Fetchlands, Force etc.

[Higgs]

I think our main focus is we want more people to play the format instead of wanting more people to want to play the format. Printing non-reserved list staples would definitely increase interest in the format but the bottleneck would still be the duals lands. If you increase the supply of everything else and increase the demand, that bottleneck would get even tighter. Obviously there could be an argument here in which the decrease in the prices of reprinted staples could outweigh the increase in the prices of dual lands. But honestly I don't know if it's possible to hit that optimal sweet spot where the overall cost of decks would actually be lower and I sure don't have the background to be able to elaborate on the economics of it all. However my gut feeling says that duals would double in price, everyone would latch onto their existing duals as if it's their last breath and there would be crowds of people who had all these fancy legacy staples without the appropriate manabase to pair with.

[JanoschEausH]

Well they could reprint alot of Legacy's staples. For example Force of Will. I think Force of Will could easily be printed in a new expansion because it would't be good in Standard. Force of Will is only good when degenerate things happen.

[Julian23]

Well they could reprint alot of Legacy's staples. For example Force of Will. I think Force of Will could easily be printed in a new expansion because it would't be good in Standard. Force of Will is only good when degenerate things happen.

In the current Standard, I feel Force of Will would be a really good card for UW and Esper. Having watched the coverage of the latest GPs, I feel card advantage is so disgustingly unimportant to the format, it makes me cry. Players that are able to Sphinx Revelation for 5 without dying on the next turn should never lose.

Other than that, FoW is still a fair card that could easily be printed into Standard. If they make it Mythic though, prices won't really be affected at all.

[Barook]

In the current Standard, I feel Force of Will would be a really good card for UW and Esper. Having watched the coverage of the latest GPs, I feel card advantage is so disgustingly unimportant to the format, it makes me cry. Players that are able to Sphinx Revelation for 5 without dying on the next turn should never lose.

Other than that, FoW is still a fair card that could easily be printed into Standard. If they make it Mythic though, prices won't really be affected at all.
Timmy Mouthbreather won't like it when his overcosted Standard Junk fatty gets countered for free. Hell, Counterspell is considered "too good" - and FoW is the overall better counterspell, CA be damned when it's pitched. FoW would probably see quite some hardcasting, too, considering how slow Standard is + the lack of mana disruption.

[nedleeds]

Seconded

Thirded but make them Alara Foil pack style packs and all foil, English and new border so I'd want no fucking part of them.

[PirateKing]

Thirded but make them Alara Foil pack style packs and all foil, English and new border so I'd want no fucking part of them.

New border like purple or something, like timeshift rarity color style? That would be disgusting, I approve.

[TsumiBand]

Thirded but make them Alara Foil pack style packs and all foil, English and new border so I'd want no fucking part of them.

For serious, this is all it would take.

If the promise is strictly founded on the notion that functional reprints necessarily devalue the originals, I would still argue that from a collector's standpoint, there is a mile-wide difference between an original Beta Scrubland and a theoretical m15 Scrubland. It's the same with damn near any genuine collectible; if I go melt down a bunch of tin cans and cars and flagpoles and construct a perfect replica of the Model A, it isn't the genuine article -- and it's that status as 'genuine original' that provokes the collectible aspect of it, not its content or its in-game function. The words on the pages of Action Comics #1 are not what make it collectible; if it were so, I could simply print the words onto a sheet of 8.5 x 11 paper and have it insured for $1m USD.

I will take a new border foil dual with ugly expansion symbols all goddamned day, if it would mean modifying or otherwise dissolving the Reprint Policy. Collectors don't care, because new-border, 20 years after the fact, and so on. Players get their cards.

The people who might 'lose' I guess are players who 'care about their investment' but also want to play those cards regularly. Of the groups described here, IMHO these are the people who seem to have the most sense of entitlement. There are precious few things you can buy and use regularly that maintain their value unless you can repair them. Like, a house -- buy a piece of shit house/car/etc, fix it up, turn it over for more than you bought it for. You can't do that with a Magic card; its condition cannot be improved, its deterioration is guaranteed. I don't care how many sleeves you put on that card, or how gingerly you shuffle it, or how pissed you get when your opponent riffles your deck for you when it's pretty much right there in the floor rules that it is expected to do so. Expecting to be able to regularly haul out your 'prized possessions' and then expect them to increase in value as you continue to use them and continue to mangle them -- however microscopically -- that is wanting your cake and eating it too. It's comparable to taking your Shelby Cobra for a Sunday drive every weekend, and then getting pissed off when it depreciates. You used it, hurp.

[Stan]

For serious, this is all it would take.

If the promise is strictly founded on the notion that functional reprints necessarily devalue the originals, I would still argue that from a collector's standpoint, there is a mile-wide difference between an original Beta Scrubland and a theoretical m15 Scrubland. It's the same with damn near any genuine collectible; if I go melt down a bunch of tin cans and cars and flagpoles and construct a perfect replica of the Model A, it isn't the genuine article -- and it's that status as 'genuine original' that provokes the collectible aspect of it, not its content or its in-game function. The words on the pages of Action Comics #1 are not what make it collectible; if it were so, I could simply print the words onto a sheet of 8.5 x 11 paper and have it insured for $1m USD.

I will take a new border foil dual with ugly expansion symbols all goddamned day, if it would mean modifying or otherwise dissolving the Reprint Policy. Collectors don't care, because new-border, 20 years after the fact, and so on. Players get their cards.

The people who might 'lose' I guess are players who 'care about their investment' but also want to play those cards regularly. Of the groups described here, IMHO these are the people who seem to have the most sense of entitlement. There are precious few things you can buy and use regularly that maintain their value unless you can repair them. Like, a house -- buy a piece of shit house/car/etc, fix it up, turn it over for more than you bought it for. You can't do that with a Magic card; its condition cannot be improved, its deterioration is guaranteed. I don't care how many sleeves you put on that card, or how gingerly you shuffle it, or how pissed you get when your opponent riffles your deck for you when it's pretty much right there in the floor rules that it is expected to do so. Expecting to be able to regularly haul out your 'prized possessions' and then expect them to increase in value as you continue to use them and continue to mangle them -- however microscopically -- that is wanting your cake and eating it too. It's comparable to taking your Shelby Cobra for a Sunday drive every weekend, and then getting pissed off when it depreciates. You used it, hurp.

Why? Those people bought cards while being explicitly assured by WotC that those cards wouldn't be reprinted, ever. Their no-reprint expectztion is legitimate. It's the people who insist that this unfortunate promise be broken because they want to play with those cards without having to pay the current market price for them that have entitlement issues. If you want reprints, wait until the copyright expires in the 2060s or 2070s.

[Barook]

If you want reprints, wait until the copyright expires in the 2060s or 2070s.
Don't the copyrights for some parts already run out soon?

[Stan]

Don't the copyrights for some parts already run out soon?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Steps to issuing a public complaint about the reserve list to WotC.

1: Determine the direction of the wind.
2: Align your body so that you are facing directly into the wind.
3: Begin pissing.

[TsumiBand]

Why? Those people bought cards while being explicitly assured by WotC that those cards wouldn't be reprinted, ever. Their no-reprint expectztion is legitimate. It's the people who insist that this unfortunate promise be broken because they want to play with those cards without having to pay the current market price for them that have entitlement issues. If you want reprints, wait until the copyright expires in the 2060s or 2070s.

…the rest of the paragraph was 'why'. This group of people wants to be able to maintain the value of a scarce item by shuffling the shit out of it every month/week/day/whatever. You want to collect? Cool, lock your cards in a vault, or behind glass display-only style. You want to play? People are allowed and encouraged by the floor rules to shuffle their opponents' decks; and if you don't let them, I'm sure a judge will be more than happy to accommodate your request by shuffling in their place. It's being used and worn out. The vast precedent in nearly all other things - cars, books, art, and so on - all of these things when handled by a collector with the expectation that their value should increase, would not drive their cars to work or casually hang their art next to their family photos in the hallway as if it were the same thing.

I don't understand what's so tough about this -- you even call it an 'unfortunate promise'. There's no slippery slope fallacy to invoke here; breaking a bad promise is not so misguided as keeping a bad one, and it doesn't establish a precedent for them to just throw caution to the wind and run the gamut of policies and rules they've established and re-evaluate them all. It's a single poor decision made 20 years ago. There's nothing compelling about a company that keeps shitty promises, there's no integrity there whatsoever.

[Stan]

…the rest of the paragraph was 'why'. This group of people wants to be able to maintain the value of a scarce item by shuffling the shit out of it every month/week/day/whatever. You want to collect? Cool, lock your cards in a vault, or behind glass display-only style. You want to play? People are allowed and encouraged by the floor rules to shuffle their opponents' decks; and if you don't let them, I'm sure a judge will be more than happy to accommodate your request by shuffling in their place. It's being used and worn out. The vast precedent in nearly all other things - cars, books, art, and so on - all of these things when handled by a collector with the expectation that their value should increase, would not drive their cars to work or casually hang their art next to their family photos in the hallway as if it were the same thing.

I don't understand what's so tough about this -- you even call it an 'unfortunate promise'. There's no slippery slope fallacy to invoke here; breaking a bad promise is not so misguided as keeping a bad one, and it doesn't establish a precedent for them to just throw caution to the wind and run the gamut of policies and rules they've established and re-evaluate them all. It's a single poor decision made 20 years ago. There's nothing compelling about a company that keeps shitty promises, there's no integrity there whatsoever.

What do you expect to accomplish with this plea of yours? The person who replied directly before you expressed the situation as it is far more powerful than I could. Wizards has heard those arguments before. They just don't care. By now, they haven't promised not to reprint the duals and other goodies once, but twice. Read the following words carefully:
that
list
will
not
be
abolished

Memorize them, think about their meaning, then get over it. I am well aware that the most important function of internet forums is to provide a safe venue for society's malcontents to blow off steam with some harmless whining, but surely you guys can find other horses that haven't been beaten to death so often.

[PirateKing]

Promises made my companies are just words, they can redact and alter whatever policies they please. There is no outside force hindering them from completely abolishing the reserved list. But it wouldn't be so bad if the company heads themselves stood up for it. The fact that if pressed, they admit it was a mistake, and would do things differently if they could. So the debate really boils down to which is worse:


We made a bad promise that we know is bad, but for the good of the company we're going to keep our bad promise, despite knowing it's a bad promise
or

We made a bad promise that we know is bad, but for the good of the company we're going to renege on our promise, because it was a bad promise and we are good company.

[Stan]

Yeah well, you know the old saying. Hope in one hand and shit in the other, then see which one fills up first.

[BVB09]

If anyone stills interested, a guy on MTGS started a thread and made this petition:

https://www.change.org/petitions/wizards-of-the-coast-revise-the-reserved-list-print-legacy-masters

I have already signed.

[Mr.C]

If anyone stills interested, a guy on MTGS started a thread and made this petition:

https://www.change.org/petitions/wizards-of-the-coast-revise-the-reserved-list-print-legacy-masters

I have already signed.

Petition? Seriously?

Magic is making a shitton of money for Hasbro right now. They're not going to touch *anything* that could remotely jeopardize that.