Have this ever happened to you?

[Deadpool09]

We all know crediting someone with creating or innovating a deck is a hard task.
Everyone can just look up in the net and just copy paste a deck. I don't have a problem against spikes doing that.
What I'm trying to say is, have you ever created a deck on your own and, and finding out that list already existed and is competitive? I know a lot of grinders in my area claim that,(they mostly play standard) .
Some I actually witness create a deck in front of me,then weeks later some guy from CFB or scg won with almost the exact same list.
Some very similar happened to me more or less a year ago. Back then, I'm still building my legacy staples collection. I was working towards building esper stoneblade. I have the tundras but I don't have any onslaught fetches. I decided to make a brew for the time being. I always loved delver and Geist of saint traft together. As far as i know, No one really paid atteion to Geist in legacy. So I decideed to make a uwr delver deck. The inspiration came from the uwr delver deck that used to be competitive in modern. I had the fetches (scalding tarn, arid Mesa) 2 tundras so I decided to go for it.
I posted my list on a certain website. And I got bashed for it. Even the people in my shop was saying playing lightning lot and stp was counter productive, and saing I should drop geist and white all together , and stick with ur delver.
My decision o stick with white came fom the fact that Geist needs a clear path in order to deal max damage. So I thought stp and grim lava manner was justifiable. I made few more tweaks and added stone forge mystic. I started winning at my shop at a consistent basis. But still, the regulars there would not acknowledge the deck. So I decided o just Put it away and just go on with esper. A year later, Erik smith and Fabiano won scg, with a list similar to mine. Now I'm not saying they saw my list , because I already deleted it. Now the same people that bashed me online and irl, some of them are playing the deck. It's funny to think that when a pro played a relatively new list, he's gonna get credit for it, and everyones gonna think that since it came from a pro, it's a good deck. But when I plyed the deck a year before, since I'm a nobody, almost everyone dismissed it,(except from my group of friends). The big difference is, I never won a major event with to put the spotlight on the deck itself. Has this thing ever happened to you guys?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Nothing similar happened to me, niether do I remember anything similar happening in our lgs, but congrats. Sad that you''d put away the deck, it'll be funny to troll the guys of your lgs with it. "And my crap deck that many pros play woins again, thanks for your money, guys, I really love this Tundra I just won. See you next week." :laugh:

[Tormod]

Happens all the time, brewers rarely get credit for their lists.
Credibility is given to those that are known.

eg. "Team Rocket" doesn't acknowledge that Finn created death and taxes.

[ESG]

It seems as if you're upset about this, but your list was not that novel, so you shouldn't feel as if something was stolen from you. You weren't playing some sleeper combo; you were playing efficient spells that all saw significant play in the format. You simply had a different configuration. I knew at least two people in my area who were running similar builds at the time you describe. I can guarantee you that they came up with the idea on their own. It's not hard to determine that Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt are strong removal spells. I don't see why you can't be happy with the fact that you won events at your local store with your deck. Maybe you were ahead of the curve. Why be dissatisfied?

Typically, results are what get people's attention. If you had taken your deck to an SCG Open Series event and won it, you would have received recognition and analysis. Caleb Durward was considered an unknown -- then he destroyed a GP with Vengevine Survival and people sat up and took notice. He then became a big name by continuing to post high-profile finishes with different decks.

Credit is often misplaced when commentators are discussing deck designers, but you're delusional to think you deserve some kind of commendation for your build. Be happy with your winnings and move on. If you want to be in the big spotlight, bring your next brew to a big event and win with it.

[Tao]

Happens all the time, brewers rarely get credit for their lists.
Credibility is given to those that are known.

eg. "Team Rocket" doesn't acknowledge that Finn created death and taxes.

Of course he did. What is the story behind this? Who is "Team Rocket"?

[TsumiBand]

I so rarely actually *design* a deck much less create something which is worth more than the exercise it was to put it together, so usually I'm just riffing on a pre-existing concept already.

Sometimes I get sadmad when I see that a two-card combo I thought I figured out all by myself was actually a well-explored Terrible Idea on some distant message board somewhere. About a month ago, I thought that I was the first person to notice Disciple of Bolas + Wall of Blood… nnnnnnope. :(

[T-101]

Its just part of magic. You gt the same idea, indepentent of the internet hivemind, or you decklist gets miscredited. All you really have is knowing that you yourself were responsible for something. Even if you dont get credit, or are ridiculed, you know what the real deal is, which should be all that matters.

[apple713]

who's to say that the person that made the deck famous didn't invent it independently just like you did with no outside influence. There are only a handful of options when creating a deck. Im certain someone somewhere has had your deck idea but they followed through with it and made it popular. you took a backseat and a passive approach.

my high school friend had the idea for Facebook back in 2002 but he never built it.

[Julian23]

Now the same people that bashed me online and irl, some of them are playing the deck.

Welcome to step 2 of the life cycle of a deck.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah I mean really, is this honestly A Big Deal though?

I can appreciate wanting credit or whatever, but like… in Magic, the biggest credit a deck can get is really just "other people played it". So, hey, look, you did it. TA-DA.

[Deadpool09]

It seems as if you're upset about this, but your list was not that novel, so you shouldn't feel as if something was stolen from you. You weren't playing some sleeper combo; you were playing efficient spells that all saw significant play in the format. You simply had a different configuration. I knew at least two people in my area who were running similar builds at the time you describe. I can guarantee you that they came up with the idea on their own. It's not hard to determine that Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt are strong removal spells. I don't see why you can't be happy with the fact that you won events at your local store with your deck. Maybe you were ahead of the curve. Why be dissatisfied?

Typically, results are what get people's attention. If you had taken your deck to an SCG Open Series event and won it, you would have received recognition and analysis. Caleb Durward was considered an unknown -- then he destroyed a GP with Vengevine Survival and people sat up and took notice. He then became a big name by continuing to post high-profile finishes with different decks.

Credit is often misplaced when commentators are discussing deck designers, but you're delusional to think you deserve some kind of commendation for your build. Be happy with your winnings and move on. If you want to be in the big spotlight, bring your next brew to a big event and win with it.
I'm talking about in a local scene level. Never implied that i innovated something. Players in my lgs ignored it, but when a pro makes it big, suddenly its legit. I wanna make sure this happens to a lot of people not only me, hence I post it here.

[H]

I've done this multiple time in Vintage.

I came up with something extremely close to RUG Delver about 2 months before Hajduk won with it at an NYSE event (IIRC something like 50 of the same 60). I also made BUG fish, extremely similar to what has won the last 2 BoM for Vintage (except I had 1 less DRS).

Each time, I felt like attacking with creatures in Vintage wasn't what I wanted to do. I still feel that way, just turns out it really is powerful, oops.

These things are bound to happen, multiple independent discoveries of synergies, because we all have access to essentially the same information. Some differences here and there due to metas, but the card pool is the card pool. In fact, it would be unimaginable that this doesn't happen all the time.

[Tormod]

Yeah I mean really, is this honestly A Big Deal though?

I can appreciate wanting credit or whatever, but like… in Magic, the biggest credit a deck can get is really just "other people played it". So, hey, look, you did it. TA-DA.

A bid deal, no, But an interesting topic of conversation.

Sometimes people just like to chat

[Julian23]

but when a pro makes it big, suddenly its legit.

Here's the point you are (subconsciously?) ignoring: it's not about the pro. It's about winning something with it. Since you never won anything with it, the deck had never really proven itself.

If you are confident about your deck, stick to it. Unlike popular believe, the tier decks of Legacy didn't just evaporate out of thin air and can actually be dated back to some well-known deckbuilders that worked on them a lot and popularized them. If you lack the confidence/money/time to put your deck out on the big stage of a tournament, someone else will do one day. And it won't matter what he did before that.


Also, when I first read your post, I felt genuinely sad, very sad when I came across this:


I started winning at my shop at a consistent basis. But still, the regulars there would not acknowledge the deck. So I decided o just Put it away and just go on with esper.

I imagine you having a new cat. You named her Snowball and really liked her a lot. You found her in a small animal shelter just outisde town and took her home during a time of depression. Snowball was an awesome companion and even though she wasn't a beauty queen, you loved her. The two of you spent a lot of time together and you loved how each morning she would wake you up and each night sleep next to your bed. Because she liked you, too. In the animal shelter, all she had had was the concrete floor. You started taking her with you and show her to your friends. They are all heartless idiots and just told you your cat sucks. You felt hurt. Really hurt. Why didn't they like Snowball? She's been with you for quite some time now and she's been the best friend you ever had and so much more. But she sucks as a cat, they said.

The next morning you took her back to the cat shelter. You didn't say goodbye, just handed her to the lady that put away into another room.
That was the day you decided to build Esperblade.

One year later, you see Snowball with someone else. She looks so much better than she ever did with you. "Princess Prettypie, you're such a good cat, we will be best friends forever!" said Gerrad Fabiano.

[Mantis]

Exactly the same thing happened to me actually. Funnily enough, I built a deck with Veteran Explorer, GZS, Witness, Therapy, Brainstorm, Intuition, Pernicious Deed and a combo finish long before Veteran Explorer was ever mentioned on The Source. I initially thought I was really onto something and I just needed a few tweaks to break the format, but it never happened as with so many of my other brews. So I just sat idly as the thread developed because I was planning on rocking it at a big tournament if I could find those last tweaks. It took the Nic Fit guys forever to get a half decent list out there but unfortunately neither my own brew nor the Nic Fit decks could ever reach top tier.

But very nice work you built this UWR Captain America deck, too bad you didn't stick with it. Seems like you missed a chance to do well at a big tournament while the deck was still not on the radar :(

[Julian23]

Exactly the same thing happened to me actually. Funnily enough, I built a deck with Veteran Explorer, GZS, Witness, Therapy, Brainstorm, Intuition, Pernicious Deed and a combo finish long before Veteran Explorer was ever mentioned on The Source.

I feel especially with NicFit, lots of people felt like they already "had it" before it got more well known. Speaking for the Munich community, Michael "Wuaschti" Thiel had been playing the core of the deck ever since 2006 and did pretty well with it even in "small" big tournaments like GP sideevents and the Bazaar League.

[Koby]

Exactly the same thing happened to me actually. Funnily enough, I built a deck with Veteran Explorer, GZS, Witness, Therapy, Brainstorm, Intuition, Pernicious Deed and a combo finish long before Veteran Explorer was ever mentioned on The Source.

Now that's just silly talk. GSZ was added in 2011. The Nic Fit thread was started in the same year, but based on other Veteran Explorer decks that were floating around, noteably Planeswalker Rock (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16650). Selective bias is biased.

[TsumiBand]

OH WAIT I FORGOT ABOUT MINE. I totally built Zombie Bidding way before it was A Thing.

Bidding was a weird card/deck because it changed creature types a lot. Beast Bidding was a popular deck because recursion with Ravenous Baloth was real good against aggro; however, Noxious Ghoul just turned it into a stalemate; before the Warchiefs existed to give the deck reach in the combat phase, X-Bidding v. Zombie Bidding was just horrible for a lot of matchups.

People didn't think much of it, but then it started popping up and doing all right in places. I never quite understood how it was that Goblins ended up being the Bidding deck that people tend to think of first, except maybe it had the Food Chain effect - the deck didn't need it to be good, whereas Zombies really kind of did need that extra kick in the ass to be worthwhile. Also, Sharpshooter + any Goblin that sacs things was a good way to turn an impending Wrath into a bunch of direct damage, so resolving Patriarch's Bidding during a Bidding v Bidding matchup wasn't nearly as one-sided when one deck was Gobbos.

But yeah, UB Zombie Bidding is my fucking deck. I even played Read the Runes and (I think) Breakthrough when people said it was shitty. I don't think it stayed a good deck for very long because of Goblins, but I thought it was cool to see it get played. I took it to mean that I had a good idea, as opposed to seeing other people playing it and going "THIEVES" or being sad about notoriety, because it's just one of those things.

Different people often have the same ideas; haven't you ever met someone who claimed to have had some interesting personal revelation as a kid, and you go "OMFG I thought the same thing, I thought I was the only one." This stuff is just human nature; it applies not just to card games. Speaking from personal experience, I realized at a really early age that since there was literally no way for me to prove that people around me are sentient -- you all walk and talk and seem to have feelings but you might just be on auto-pilot, and I'd never actually be able to prove it either way. You can't prove your self-awareness to me, you cannot measure it in pounds or bring it to me in a bowl, so I can only observe that I'm the only person that's sentient. I never told anyone about it or talked about it because, well, what would be the point? and then one day at an all-night LAN party in like 9th grade some other kid busts out his big revelation at like 1 in the morning and I was just like "haha whatever man that's something i figured out when i was like 5".

That's kind of not the same at all but it totally is. People come to similar conclusions, it's just a thing. That's all.

[Deadpool09]

Here's the point you are (subconsciously?) ignoring: it's not about the pro. It's about winning something with it. Since you never won anything with it, the deck had never really proven itself.

If you are confident about your deck, stick to it. Unlike popular believe, the tier decks of Legacy didn't just evaporate out of thin air and can actually be dated back to some well-known deckbuilders that worked on them a lot and popularized them. If you lack the confidence/money/time to put your deck out on the big stage of a tournament, someone else will do one day. And it won't matter what he did before that.


Also, when I first read your post, I felt genuinely sad, very sad when I came across this:



I imagine you having a new cat. You named her Snowball and really liked her a lot. You found her in a small animal shelter just outisde town and took her home during a time of depression. Snowball was an awesome companion and even though she wasn't a beauty queen, you loved her. The two of you spent a lot of time together and you loved how each morning she would wake you up and each night sleep next to your bed. Because she liked you, too. In the animal shelter, all she had had was the concrete floor. You started taking her with you and show her to your friends. They are all heartless idiots and just told you your cat sucks. You felt hurt. Really hurt. Why didn't they like Snowball? She's been with you for quite some time now and she's been the best friend you ever had and so much more. But she sucks as a cat, they said.

The next morning you took her back to the cat shelter. You didn't say goodbye, just handed her to the lady that put away into another room.
That was the day you decided to build Esperblade.

One year later, you see Snowball with someone else. She looks so much better than she ever did with you. "Princess Prettypie, you're such a good cat, we will be best friends forever!" said Gerrad Fabiano.
So I'm guessing you still miss your cat snowball?
Man, I just shared a story with the intention of having a discussion. Wasn't expecting the bad bad vibes from some of the people here. Never said anything about people stealing my ideas. My point was it took, pros to convince the regulars at my lgs to see I made a decent deck back then. My fault is I never stuck with it, maybe because i just came back to the game after 8 years

[Bed Decks Palyer]

This thread is now about kitten.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxx8uBSs1qzys7SUJY1Ck7m3p0ddFOK0e_MBvaVxsM0rEGuSm8_w

Back in early 200x a friend of mine built quite powerful Tressplenish deck. But he dismantled it, because reasons... you know, only cowards play powerful decks, and of course, one must find home for the crappy cards like Crash of Rhinos. Years later I was smashed by Tress for the first time in rounament and I remembered Tom.

[TheMightyQuinn]

I'm confused. They were dismissing your deck whilst you happily (and consistently) smashed them with it? Learn to let stuff roll off your back. "Cool, thanks for the tips. I have to go pick up my winnings now. Bye."

[HammafistRoob]

I just want to say that UWR wasn't that good before TNN was a thing. Geist is bad.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'm confused. They were dismissing your deck whilst you happily (and consistently) smashed them with it? Learn to let stuff roll off your back. "Cool, thanks for the tips. I have to go pick up my winnings now. Bye."

Never heard about that thing called "psychic someting"? :smile:
I totally do understand what happened, sometimes even good results are not enough when everybody mocks you. Otoh, this is not football and one should be able to overcome the urge to throw away the cards just to make the crowd happy.

[Julian23]

My point was it took, pros to convince the regulars at my lgs to see I made a decent deck back then.

My point was that you are wrong about that. If you read my post, you will know why as I clearly addressed its about winning something, not about being a pro.

Also, you really seem to give to much about what others think of your deck. If you made a decent deck back then, props to you. If you are winning with it a lot, that's awesome! And then you put it away, because your peers said it still sucked..? I guess that should be even more reason for you to smash face. I mean, when the early iterations of D&T/Maverick came up, lots of people were overly critical about it (as with almost every new deck). Joke's on them half a year later.

[Darkenslight]

I remember two of these things, both of them in Ravnica-era:

In Extended, I worked on a CAL (Confinement Assault Loam) deck, but I just couldn't get the mana to work, and for Standard I was working on Warp World combo. Both of these were from Ravnica's release. Both were independent of the Pro players of the time. And both were hilarious to watch playing, though WW could do a fine Solidarity impression of One Big Turn.

[TsumiBand]

I remember two of these things, both of them in Ravnica-era:

In Extended, I worked on a CAL (Confinement Assault Loam) deck, but I just couldn't get the mana to work, and for Standard I was working on Warp World combo. Both of these were from Ravnica's release. Both were independent of the Pro players of the time. And both were hilarious to watch playing, though WW could do a fine Solidarity impression of One Big Turn.

I definitely remember playing against a Warp World deck during some Standard season. I swear my opponent was running like 17 Bogardan Hellkites for it to work as often as it did.

[Darkenslight]

I definitely remember playing against a Warp World deck during some Standard season. I swear my opponent was running like 17 Bogardan Hellkites for it to work as often as it did.

Yeah, that was a variant - mine ran with Galvanic Arc and Fists of Ironwood alongside Anarchist for the potential to go infinite. So you could conceivably take down a Life combo player with it.

[YamiJoey]

I was tuning my UW Miracles deck and after about half an hour of working stuff out ended up with Shardless BUG minus Liliana, I think. It was quite a surreal experience. I do it all the time. I'll work on something for ages, and then later on find an incredibly similar deck that does well, did well, or was always just bad. It's always hilarious, and always makes me kind of sad.

[Grollub]

Only happend with the "obvious" decks back in the old days: make a deck play it, post it and see a lot of other people had thought the same across the globe.

Godzilla.dec
Rec/Sur (so obvious I don't even think it counts lol).
Post-necro AK/Intuition/Sapphire Trix with a few buddies on mtgnews forum.
Pattern/Rector in block.
Welder/Tinker in block.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'd love to play Warp World deck in Legacy. It'll be funny.

Hey, I just remebered that in fact I got a similar experience! I built an UW Control back in 1997 or so, without seen any such deck prior to it. Otoh, this hardly may count, as 1) a frined of mine played U Control which inspired me and 2) another friend of mine played Blackblade Control which also inspired me.
So it was quite obvious to put StPs, counterspells, WoGs, Mahamotis, Serra Angels, Control Magics + CoAs and such into one deck, so the only real comparison is that some ppl mocked the deck... becasue they were losing to it.

[RainbowPenguin]

Uhm, guys? Why are you all writing about those decks that weren't really good, or weren't good but were close to something that other players made before/after that was an actual good deck, or that one good deck that was good but then you didn't want to play it anyway because silly reasons?


This tread is clearly about Snowball.

[TsumiBand]

Uhm, guys? Why are you all writing about those decks that weren't really good, or weren't good but were close to something that other players made before/after that was an actual good deck, or that one good deck that was good but then you didn't want to play it anyway because silly reasons?


This tread is clearly about Snowball.

Hey hey HEY.

Zombie Bidding was the shit.