[Deck] Sneak and Show

[snurly]

Blightsteel is weak to STP, but is a legit one hit kill and immune to Karakas. Not sure how it or Progenitus is not good with Sneak Attack?

Edit: Also, Blightsteel is slightly more hard-castable than Emrakul and 100% more than Griselbrand :)

[StoneColdEffy]

Hey Guys!

So I made this Eternal Top 8 Playoff thing at my LGS. As far as I know, the other 7 players are all on Miracles, BUG or Omni-Tell which makes me believe this deck might be the best positioned. I've tried to come up with a list to kind of prey on these three decks while still having game against anything else. I'm 100% sure there will be no Death and Taxes and RUG Delver.
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Island

4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack

4 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe

4 Lotus Petal

1 Intuition
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
3 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon
2 Swan Song
2 Through the Breach
1 Echoing Truth
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor


So would like thoughts on the deck! It's a bit unique cause I'm trying to prey specifically on these three decks. Also any tips on SBing would be much appreciated. One of the things I'm most unsure about is the 4th Volcanic Island or 3 Volc/1 Mountain, and the Intuition/Jace slots. Also maybe Top is good? I think I need the Probes for training wheels :P

PS I came up with the decklist by looking through a bunch of old lists and came up with this sort of template:
7 Blue Fetchlands (4 Tarns if playing basic Mountain)
4 Volcanic Island or 3 Volcanic Island/1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Island

4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack

4 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe

4 Lotus Petal

2 Other Slots (Daze, 4th Probe, Jace, Intuition, Misdirection, Preordain, Top)

Sideboard:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Blood Moon
1 Echoing Truth
2 Pyroblast
2 Swan Song
2 Through the Breach
3 Pyroclasm

Other SB options:
1 Boesiju, Who Shelters All
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1/2 Ashen Rider
Jace SB
2/3 Defense Grid
Flusterstorm
Divert

[JPA]

Your list looks pretty good for the meta you described. However, what do you need 3 Pyroclasm for against those decks? I would rather play more Through the Breaches or add Wipe Away(s).

Top is also really good against all 3 of them.

[DavidHernandez]

Hey Guys!

So I made this Eternal Top 8 Playoff thing at my LGS. As far as I know, the other 7 players are all on Miracles, BUG or Omni-Tell which makes me believe this deck might be the best positioned. I've tried to come up with a list to kind of prey on these three decks while still having game against anything else. I'm 100% sure there will be no Death and Taxes and RUG Delver.

Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
3 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon
2 Swan Song
2 Through the Breach
1 Echoing Truth
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Blood Moon
1 Echoing Truth
2 Pyroblast
2 Swan Song
2 Through the Breach
3 Pyroclasm

Other SB options:
1 Boesiju, Who Shelters All
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1/2 Ashen Rider
Jace SB
2/3 Defense Grid
Flusterstorm
Divert
For me, one page back, I was going to run 3 Pyroclasms in the board but went with 2. In the main I put Elesh Norn. This was a huge success for me. Against Goblins and Merfolk it was the winning move. Had I run into Death & Taxes it would also have been a bomb against them, and it doesn't suck against Delver decks. If you don't want it in the main, you could try one of them in the board in place of the third Pyroclasm.

Dave

[KjU]

I'm trying to evaluate the different 1-mana counterspells based on their effectiveness against discard. The main reason is the fact that T1 - Deathrite Shaman, T2- Thoughtseize (with active DS) has become a very VERY common senario. In this particular situation both Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are dead (inkl. Divert).
Obviously you can build up storm with Fluster, but that's very hard to do, especially if you're on the draw, and it's rarely cost efficient.
Swan Song doesn't have this problem, and is the best answer to the "deathrite problem". But then you run into another common play which is; T1- Probe into Cabal Therapy (mostly against Ant). Swan Song is basically dead here and the only way to use it effectively is to either counter the Probe (denying them a draw) or to just let everything resolve :/

What are your opinions on which 1-mana counters to use (if you're not running LoS in the SB) and why?

- KjU

[StoneColdEffy]

Your list looks pretty good for the meta you described. However, what do you need 3 Pyroclasm for against those decks? I would rather play more Through the Breaches or add Wipe Away(s).

Top is also really good against all 3 of them.

I was thinking that Blood Moon is great but doesn't stop Delver/DRS, so possibly Pyroclasm+Blood Moon would be a great way to stop the BUG decks. Fwiw, this is the meta I'm expecting:
1-2 Omni Tell
1 Deathblade
0-1 Jund
2-3 Miracles
2-3 BUG Delver

Anyway I updated my list based on recommendations:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Island

4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack

4 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe

4 Lotus Petal
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
3 Blood Moon
2 Swan Song
2 Wipe Away
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Through the Breach
1 Pyroclasm

I think 3 Through the Breach may be too much. Btw, how would you SB against those 5 decks with this list? I heard against Miracles that you take out all your Show and Tells which seems quite decent.

Cheers

PS Also I realized Defense Grid might be okay. But maybe I'm boarding into too many permanents? Swan Song may be unnecessary. Also I'm not too sure when Wipe Away is good. I know its great against cards like Ensnaring Bridge, but when do you really board it in?

[rockout]

You can board in wipe away in basically every match up but its best against decks that bring in humility or ensaring bridge. Being uncounterable makes it much better than echoing truth in most situations but truly shines when you have to bounce and win through counter magic.

[snurly]

Blightsteel is weak to STP, but is a legit one hit kill and immune to Karakas. Not sure how it or Progenitus is not good with Sneak Attack?

Edit: Also, Blightsteel is slightly more hard-castable than Emrakul and 100% more than Griselbrand :)

Also multiple Blightsteel don't suffer from the Legendary rule.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[Zodiac_Dragon]

Hey Guys,

playing the following list in a local tourment in Hanover (Germany) and ending 14 from 57. I except Miracles, BUG and D&T, which came up a lot but I hadn't had a matchup against. :eyebrow:

Main Deck:
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
1 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
1 Flusterstorm
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Sneak Attack
4 Lotus Petal
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
2 Pyroblast
1 Misdirection
1 Echoing Truth
2 Through the Breach
2 Blood Moon
2 Defense Grid
2 Grafdigger's Cage

The 1 Preordain instead of Ponder was for the Top's.

Round 1: 2:0 against Burn
- Show and Tell into Griselbrand - Win!
Round 2: 1:2 Mono Blue Matyr
- Game 1 he can't find a solution for Show and Tell, in the other Games he countered everything. :frown:
Round3: 1:2 Tin Fins
- Fast Win in Game 1, I saw nothing from him. The consequense: Game 2 loss because of wrong boarding (no Graveyard hate, he looked like Blade -> U Sea, Ponder). Game 3 I started with 5 cards (no land in both other hands), after that he comboing me out...
Round 4: 2:0 Patriot
He can't found the solutions for Sneak Attack.
Round 5: 2:1 All Spells
Force of Will was the Matchbreaker :laugh:
Round 6: 2:0 Affinity
His list was not optimal (without Mox Opal). So he was not fast enought (but very tough matches).

I think I had a little bit bad luck with so many strange matchups. But some questions to you guys: Is a Blood Moon / Defense Grid Split useful? What is better against Discard strategies? Leylines or something like Misdirection main and Divert in the board? Sure, when you have the Leylines on your opening it's the best you can get, but otherwise they are 4 dead cards. Furthermore I am thinking about 1 Blood Moon in the Main due to the current Meta.

I am new here, so I hope posting this - not Top8- list is ok. :confused:

Cheers
Kai

[beebles]

I think I had a little bit bad luck with so many strange matchups. But some questions to you guys: Is a Blood Moon / Defense Grid Split useful? What is better against Discard strategies? Leylines or something like Misdirection main and Divert in the board? Sure, when you have the Leylines on your opening it's the best you can get, but otherwise they are 4 dead cards. Furthermore I am thinking about 1 Blood Moon in the Main due to the current Meta.

I am new here, so I hope posting this - not Top8- list is ok. :confused:

Cheers
Kai

I think these things come down to a matter of personal game play philosphy and comforts. If you think you are a super skilled player that is the best guy in the room, you may want to run Misdirections in the board over leyline since it is not dead if you draw them or whatever and it isn't as luck dependent as Leyline.

When I play this deck I run 4 Leyline out of the board. Yeah it sucks to draw into them, but they simply flat out kill Jund, Burn, Storm etc. if you get them. Plus I seem to hard cast them off petals more often then you would think.

The problem imo with running more than 5 or 6 pitch spells, is you start to draw multiples, and it is hard to accumulate enough blue cards to cast them all. Plus Misdirecting a Thoughtseize still costs you two total cards.

That is my personal opinion.

I think a blood moon/grid split is fine. If I only had space for one of those I would go with Moon since it is better in more match ups, whereas Grid only shines vs. Tempo.

Grid can be awkward in some match ups, like if you play a Grid and then can't counter your opponent's Liliana or Meddling Mage.

[DavidHernandez]

I agree with Beebles. What I dislike about multiple Misdirection is that you have to discard to make it work, so the opponent still succeeds in his plan. Then, next turn, they hit you again and take your business spells. I'm a huge fan of Leylines for this reason, and they come down uncounterable.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[GoblinZ]

Todd Anderson piloting Sneakshow is on camera now, he just crushed a merfolk deck

It is wierd that the merfolk player play chalice and board in hurkyl's recall against a sneakshow deck....

[Megadeus]

Yeah Hurkylls Recall is literally a blank. Not sure what that was all about. These Chalice merfolk decks seem bad.

[JPA]

Good luck to Todd in the Top 8, it's been too long since we won a trophy. :cool:

[Zombie]

Good luck to Todd in the Top 8, it's been too long since we won a trophy. :cool:

I hope you won't ever again, we don't need more S&T players ;_;

[rxavage]

I hope you won't ever again, we don't need more S&T players ;_;

I feel obligated to apologize in advance because I plan on taking SCG Prov next week.

[Zombie]

btw, out of interest, do you folks think S&S would survive Emrakul and Griselbrand getting the hammer and having to use the more conditional big fatties in the format?

[JPA]

btw, out of interest, do you folks think S&S would survive Emrakul and Griselbrand getting the hammer and having to use the more conditional big fatties in the format?

Griselbrand was the reason it became Tier 1. So no, I don't think it would keep its position as combo-DTB #1, but it wouldn't die completely either.

[Megadeus]

It would be pretty bad tbh. Griselbrand would be worse to see banned for this deck. If both got banned? This deck would probably not be a thing. People would probably go back to NO for cheating in fat men.

[DavidHernandez]

btw, out of interest, do you folks think S&S would survive Emrakul and Griselbrand getting the hammer and having to use the more conditional big fatties in the format?
Based on results, this is not the "end all" of decks. Emrakul and Gris don't warp the format enough to be banned. That's like saying we should ban Delver of Secrets, who appears in more winning decks.

[Zombie]

Based on results, this is not the "end all" of decks. Emrakul and Gris don't warp the format enough to be banned. That's like saying we should ban Delver of Secrets, who appears in more winning decks.

I have way less issues with Delver tbh. It's not good for the color balance of the format, but I don't feel like the game is just plain dumb when I play against Delver decks apart from the T1 Delver T2 natural flip, waste you nutdraw, and even that can be mitigated by simply playing basics. That or when they play TNN.

S&T, on the other hand, just feels dumb every step of the way. The card itself - oh hey, it's the actual threat so you have to stop it instead of being able to stop it partway like you can with engine decks - you don't even have to expose the win con to counterspells afterwards like you have to with broken mana engines. It's a 3 mana sorcery that puts stuff into play from your hand so it evades most traditional card-logistic indicators of brokenness being afoot - cards coming into play from unusual zones, lots of cards being played in one turn, expensive spells being cast, and so forth. Unlike NO, it requires no sacrifice in board position to even try to get one through.

And then the win cons themselves are just about the least situational and, frankly, offensively dumb cards ever printed - Bargain with Lifelink (???), Emrakul, oh hey all my cards are free into Komplete Kombo In A Kan ("Now with a built-in failsafe so you can't accidentally deck yourself.")

All of which is topped off by Leyline, which immunizes the deck to the main form of combo hate that is naturally good against it for no mana investment and makes mulligans into lottery.

It may win less than Delver, but that's only because it can lose to itself, which Delver can't. That doesn't mean it's fine. The games involving the deck suck, just like the TNN ones do.

[jimmythegreek]

I have way less issues with Delver tbh. It's not good for the color balance of the format, but I don't feel like the game is just plain dumb when I play against Delver decks apart from the T1 Delver T2 natural flip, waste you nutdraw, and even that can be mitigated by simply playing basics. That or when they play TNN.

S&T, on the other hand, just feels dumb every step of the way. The card itself - oh hey, it's the actual threat so you have to stop it instead of being able to stop it partway like you can with engine decks - you don't even have to expose the win con to counterspells afterwards like you have to with broken mana engines. It's a 3 mana sorcery that puts stuff into play from your hand so it evades most traditional card-logistic indicators of brokenness being afoot - cards coming into play from unusual zones, lots of cards being played in one turn, expensive spells being cast, and so forth. Unlike NO, it requires no sacrifice in board position to even try to get one through.

And then the win cons themselves are just about the least situational and, frankly, offensively dumb cards ever printed - Bargain with Lifelink (???), Emrakul, oh hey all my cards are free into Komplete Kombo In A Kan ("Now with a built-in failsafe so you can't accidentally deck yourself
All of which is topped off by Leyline, which immunizes the deck to the main form of combo hate that is naturally good against it for no mana investment and makes mulligans into lottery.

It may win less than Delver, but that's only because it can lose to itself, which Delver can'involving the deck suck, just like the TNN ones do.

Welcome to legacy bra.

[AnziD]

Just putting it out there to any people playing in big events soon - with Surgical Extraction seeing a lot of play right now, perhaps it would be a good idea to switch up the fetchlands in the deck, i.e. to play

4x Tarn
1x Delta
1x Strand
1x Rainforest

It's really subtle, but in an ideal world it would be preferred.

[Unassigned]

I had to sig that one, jimmy. :)

Anyway, it always makes me chuckle when people complain about cheap threats and ALWAYS attack sneak and show. Forget Reanimator, just Sneak. lol...

Legacy is balanced, no matter how badly you try and justify bannings. Gris and Emrakul aren't format defining decks. Delver and Stoneforge? Yeah, those are. People play around their metagame, and that's why we have sideboards lol. If you can't handle a combo deck and complain about it when they beat you, then you aren't taking a serious approach to this format. Combo, control and aggro are all well represented across the board in the standings. People whine about Delver, Stoneforge, Gris, TNN and even Brainstorm. Well, if you can't handle this then go and play Standard.

With that rant over, who all will be in Columbus for the Invi this weekend? I'll be there, but I'm currently debating if I'll be running Sneak or ANT. My Standard decision is between UW Control and RW Burn. I would like to go on record by saying that I am very annoyed that this is a Standard Top 8, lol.

[ORDAL]

Hi guys, can someone explain why the lists now have two jace?

[Shuvel]

Jace can be really good in the mirror match and it makes the control matchups better.

If you don't have your complete combo but you have a Jace it makes them have to answer that first. The amount of card draw you can get off of a Jace can be pretty unreal if your opponent is durdling. The ability to Brainstorm every turn is pretty awesome! Also it can can clear the way for you if something is in the way and preventing you from attacking or going off (For example, bounce Meddling Mage/Revoker, go off, win :D). He is also pitchable to FoW which makes him that much better.

I've been trying out 2 Jaces in the main for a while and I have been enjoying the results. He can be quite the house.

[Zombie]

I had to sig that one, jimmy. :)

Anyway, it always makes me chuckle when people complain about cheap threats and ALWAYS attack sneak and show. Forget Reanimator, just Sneak. lol...

Legacy is balanced, no matter how badly you try and justify bannings. Gris and Emrakul aren't format defining decks. Delver and Stoneforge? Yeah, those are. People play around their metagame, and that's why we have sideboards lol. If you can't handle a combo deck and complain about it when they beat you, then you aren't taking a serious approach to this format. Combo, control and aggro are all well represented across the board in the standings. People whine about Delver, Stoneforge, Gris, TNN and even Brainstorm. Well, if you can't handle this then go and play Standard.

Oh, yay. The "go play Standard" card. Sure didn't see that one coming. Why would I go play a whole uninteresting format when I enjoy Legacy as a whole apart from one deck? Also, "Show and Tell is zero fun to play against unlike the rest of the format" =/= "I can't deal with Show and Tell, concede the matchup and just whine a ton". I prepare for it and fight it because I have to. That doesn't mean I enjoy it, because I don't. Not one bit.

The complaint also never was that it was some meta-dominating monster. It was that games against S&T are not interesting, the dynamics of the namesake broken card are horrible compared to every other broken deck/engine in the format sans TNN (said other broken decks are actually fun to play against because the games are far more interactive and nuanced), and that Leyline makes it even worse. Little else. Hell, most people I ask would like to ban S&T the card, I'd just rather see the dumbest targets go and have the deck need to play really strong but actually contextual cards - Terastodon, Ashen Rider, Progenitus, Elesh Norn, Worldspine Wurm, Sphinx of the Steel Wind and so on, and to have to pay actual mana for its protection spells instead of just having a Decay-proof discard blanker on the field from the get go, no mana needed, no counters allowed.

[cab0747]

Oh, yay. The "go play Standard" card. Sure didn't see that one coming. Why would I go play a whole uninteresting format when I enjoy Legacy as a whole apart from one deck? Also, "Show and Tell is zero fun to play against unlike the rest of the format" =/= "I can't deal with Show and Tell, concede the matchup and just whine a ton". I prepare for it and fight it because I have to. That doesn't mean I enjoy it, because I don't. Not one bit.

The complaint also never was that it was some meta-dominating monster. It was that games against S&T are not interesting, the dynamics of the namesake broken card are horrible compared to every other broken deck/engine in the format sans TNN (said other broken decks are actually fun to play against because the games are far more interactive and nuanced), and that Leyline makes it even worse. Little else. Hell, most people I ask would like to ban S&T the card, I'd just rather see the dumbest targets go and have the deck need to play really strong but actually contextual cards - Terastodon, Ashen Rider, Progenitus, Elesh Norn, Worldspine Wurm, Sphinx of the Steel Wind and so on, and to have to pay actual mana for its protection spells instead of just having a Decay-proof discard blanker on the field from the get go, no mana needed, no counters allowed.

I think you can make the argument that many decks in Legacy are not interesting to play against. There are few ways to interact with Dredge (especially manaless), Burn, Pox, Storm, and probably a few others I am forgetting. However, none of these decks, Sneak and Show included, are format warping or deserving of any kind of ban. There are ways to interact with them and ways to sideboard against them.

[Zombie]

I think you can make the argument that many decks in Legacy are not interesting to play against. There are few ways to interact with Dredge (especially manaless), Burn, Pox, Storm, and probably a few others I am forgetting. However, none of these decks, Sneak and Show included, are format warping or deserving of any kind of ban. There are ways to interact with them and ways to sideboard against them.

To be fair, my annoyance at S&T would be dramatically lessened if Leyline didn't exist. That way I could at least trust my mulligans against you instead of going "hey, three discard yess- or will these be complete blanks from T0?" the other (nonblue) non-discard hate against the deck is just quite narrow because S&T as a card dodges an absurd amount of traditional combo hate. Still would like the fatties to be the more context-dependant ones and not Emrakul and Griselbrand though. The lack of fucks given by those two cards is just dull.

And yeah, nutdraws all across the board are pretty bad. But S&T is still quite unique in how little it exposes or commits in the process of doing broken things. Like, compare to Channel, which requires commitment to green instead of blue. You can throw them out like S&T's to bait counters, but if an opponent lets a Channel resolve, you still have to weigh if you want to actually commit the life to try casting your broken card because they could just counter it or in case of Banefire bolt you to death. S&T you just plop in Griselbrand and draw a new hand with more gas. If they Swords it, so much the better. And Channel, the nonblue card with more failure points, is banned.
Same kind of dynamic with many other cards that do broken things. Storm's rituals mean they still have to expose the tutor, or you can trip them with a well-placed counter and the whole thing falls apart. Just trying Natural Order means you sacrifice some of your board position. Also, Craterhoof needs onboard resources to actually be lethal. A lethal NO on the stack? Have a look at this Golgari Charm. Glimpse/hardcast Hoof require heavy commitment to the board to make happen at all, and both Storm/Elves need heavy nonblue commitment so you can't really sit behind counter backup. If they want to proof themselves against hate, it requires an investment in-game - they have to resolve the anti-hate and find time for it. Leyline has none of that.

Even most other 2-card combos like Painter need to have two permanents on the field at the same time and have to expose both combo pieces through the graveyard or the stack as well before they can just kill you.

[JPA]

To be fair, my annoyance at S&T would be dramatically lessened if Leyline didn't exist. That way I could at least trust my mulligans against you instead of going "hey, three discard yess- or will these be complete blanks from T0?" the other (nonblue) non-discard hate against the deck is just quite narrow because S&T as a card dodges an absurd amount of traditional combo hate. Still would like the fatties to be the more context-dependant ones and not Emrakul and Griselbrand though. The lack of fucks given by those two cards is just dull.

And yeah, nutdraws all across the board are pretty bad. But S&T is still quite unique in how little it exposes or commits in the process of doing broken things. Like, compare to Channel, which requires commitment to green instead of blue. You can throw them out like S&T's to bait counters, but if an opponent lets a Channel resolve, you still have to weigh if you want to actually commit the life to try casting your broken card because they could just counter it or in case of Banefire bolt you to death. S&T you just plop in Griselbrand and draw a new hand with more gas. If they Swords it, so much the better. And Channel, the nonblue card with more failure points, is banned.
Same kind of dynamic with many other cards that do broken things. Storm's rituals mean they still have to expose the tutor, or you can trip them with a well-placed counter and the whole thing falls apart. Just trying Natural Order means you sacrifice some of your board position. Also, Craterhoof needs onboard resources to actually be lethal. A lethal NO on the stack? Have a look at this Golgari Charm. Glimpse/hardcast Hoof require heavy commitment to the board to make happen at all, and both Storm/Elves need heavy nonblue commitment so you can't really sit behind counter backup. If they want to proof themselves against hate, it requires an investment in-game - they have to resolve the anti-hate and find time for it. Leyline has none of that.

Even most other 2-card combos like Painter need to have two permanents on the field at the same time and have to expose both combo pieces through the graveyard or the stack as well before they can just kill you.

To sum this up: The reason that you hate S&S is that it is the best combo deck? :wink:

Personally, I disagree with your statement that
other broken decks are actually fun to play against because the games are far more interactive and nuanced) I hate playing vs Elves for example (unless I beat them :tongue: ). Even if you make all the right decisions concering removal/discard/counters, they are awesome at topdecking the game-winning NO/GSZ/Craterhoof/Cradle/Ooze/w/e, nullifying all of the awesome "interaction and nuances" that might have happened until then.
I'd rather get Emrakul'd twice in a quick 10-minute-match and move onto the next round without a headache than losing a 50minute-war against Elves where I made all the right decisions and still got topdeck-hoofd. That's just my opinion, and even though I don't share your view, I can totally understand it.

[JPA]

With that rant over, who all will be in Columbus for the Invi this weekend? I'll be there, but I'm currently debating if I'll be running Sneak or ANT. My Standard decision is between UW Control and RW Burn. I would like to go on record by saying that I am very annoyed that this is a Standard Top 8, lol.

No problem, just rock the Legacy Open if you miss the Top 8. :cool:

And stick with Sneak&Show, of course. ;-) Can't comment on Standard..

Defense Grid might be a good SB-choice for the Invi, I heard a lot of grinders like to play Tempo-decks at those tournaments. And even though Todd and CVM had decent success with their list at the last 2 Opens, I don't like cutting the basic Mountain, playing with only 8 real cantrips and without Intuition/Misdirection...

[GoblinZ]

Hi guys, can someone explain why the lists now have two jace?

It is the meta call, if you expect a delver-heavy meta or a meta full of more aggressive decks, I don't think you would like to play Jace. Jace is mainly for miracle and mirror.

[GoblinZ]

To sum this up: The reason that you hate S&S is that it is the best combo deck? :wink:

Personally, I disagree with your statement that I hate playing vs Elves for example (unless I beat them :tongue: ). Even if you make all the right decisions concering removal/discard/counters, they are awesome at topdecking the game-winning NO/GSZ/Craterhoof/Cradle/Ooze/w/e, nullifying all of the awesome "interaction and nuances" that might have happened until then.
I'd rather get Emrakul'd twice in a quick 10-minute-match and move onto the next round without a headache than losing a 50minute-war against Elves where I made all the right decisions and still got topdeck-hoofd. That's just my opinion, and even though I don't share your view, I can totally understand it.

JPA, I like playing elves for the same reason that I like playing SNT...Consistency, Card advantage and a fast kill....

[dcosiem]

What's up Sneak and Show players?

I've been playing this deck for almost a year now. I would consider myself pretty expert at this deck because I guess I made it to the top 4 at a tournament once of 32 players. But, then again I don't consider myself the best Magic player. Have anyone tried running a single maybe two Omniscience in this deck along with the rest of the majority of the deck like 4 sneak attacks? I conjecture this point because I feel that it's nice to switch things up against your opponent sometimes when they especially are well tuned to knowledge of the format. Unless you're a noob, you're deck is probably fined tune to be 50% against the field and to your experience. I believe playing 1 single or maybe 2 omniscience can have an overwhelming effect on the game because you can play your game in a way that people can recognize your playing sneak and show, but when you finally are able to cast Show and tell without disruption then by dropping an Omniscience instead of the usual big creature or Sneak Attack, it forces opponents to become utter helpless to deal with it. Only in certain matches, some decks are able to deal with Omniscience but I believe most blue decks cannot. For me, the only match-ups that really matter to me to win in is any Blue-base control deck because they have the most resistance to combo. To wrap up my conclusion, I believe it's necessary to run Omniscience somwhere in this list because simply put, mirror matches become more favorable and who doesn't like to play Time Walk?

Dan

[JPA]

I believe playing 1 single or maybe 2 omniscience can have an overwhelming effect on the game because you can play your game in a way that people can recognize your playing sneak and show, but when you finally are able to cast Show and tell without disruption then by dropping an Omniscience instead of the usual big creature or Sneak Attack, it forces opponents to become utter helpless to deal with it.

If you want to play a 3-card-combo-deck, play Omniclash. There is no reason to put two dead cards into Sneak&Show.

[GoblinZ]

If you want to play a 3-card-combo-deck, play Omniclash. There is no reason to put two dead cards into Sneak&Show.

I saw some random lists playing a few omniscience in the maindeck before, it seems SNT into Omniscience into Emrakul is a good way to break up karakas+revoker lock in the pre-board game. I guess it is the only value you get from playing omniscience...

[dcosiem]

If you want to play a 3-card-combo-deck, play Omniclash. There is no reason to put two dead cards into Sneak&Show.

If you don't know how to read English, then I don't understand whether or not I've made it clear to you. There are cases when Show and Tell isn't as good as we would assume it to be. For example, in matches with Death and Taxes or simply the mirror match. When you Show and Tell, they can always put down Revokers, Managara or O-ring in DNT's case. In Show and Tell Match up's they can put down an Emrakul. Situations like this, would seem to make Omniscience to be stronger out then to the usual method.


I saw some random lists playing a few omniscience in the maindeck before, it seems SNT into Omniscience into Emrakul is a good way to break up karakas+revoker lock in the pre-board game. I guess it is the only value you get from playing omniscience...

Yea, it's random, but I think it's effective because it catches opponents of their guard. "One's success is not the same as another."

[Polishguy00]

I tried a version of the deck with Omni in there for a short time and found that the deck wanted the cantrips more. I even tried a version with Worldspine Wurm as an extra non-Legendary creature. That, um, didn't work and was spurned by my kitchen game bias because my friend loves to play Death and Taxes. The deck seems like the general idea of 23 ways to have mana, 8 creatures, 8 enablers plus cantrips and/or Jace is the normal split for a reason.

Now, the question I have for all is if anyone feels Dack Fayden has a chance in the deck, replacing Jace.

I see a few reasons for it:
-It has a way to cantrip. This could lead to pitching an extra Emrakul or something.
-It can buy turns against Jitte/Batterskull.

Thoughts?

[JPA]

If you don't know how to read English, then I don't understand whether or not I've made it clear to you. There are cases when Show and Tell isn't as good as we would assume it to be. For example, in matches with Death and Taxes or simply the mirror match. When you Show and Tell, they can always put down Revokers, Managara or O-ring in DNT's case. In Show and Tell Match up's they can put down an Emrakul. Situations like this, would seem to make Omniscience to be stronger out then to the usual method.

I would rather Show and Tell in Progenitus against D&T than Omniscience, which requires me to have a third card. Like I said, the D&T-resilient 3-card-combo-deck you are looking for is MonoU-Omniclash, not Sneak&Show. Omniscience has zero synergy with Sneak Attack and is often a dead draw, I see no reason to play it.

And I really hope no one is that stupid to play a blind Show and Tell into creature in the mirror match.

[zinedrei]

A lethal NO on the stack? Have a look at this Golgari Charm. Glimpse/hardcast Hoof require heavy commitment to the board to make happen at all, and both Storm/Elves need heavy nonblue commitment so you can't really sit behind counter backup.

if i may, compare these "answers" to a simple card like Karakas.

heck, you don't even need to cast it. just play land then go.
if this is the t1 land my DnT opp drops, my whole line just change.

so point is, for every card there is usually answer, similar to Golgari Charm as an answer to a lethal NO to Hoof, and for SnT, a simple land is the answer.

it is "unfair" because of the perception that high casting cost crits needs to drop down late in the game and SnT has a way to put them into play t1. however, it becomes "fair" since everyone has access to a sideboard which will be an answer to those "unfair" plays.

like what was mentioned before, if someone doesn't have the appropriate board, then they are not approaching the meta with the best possible way.

speaking of Omniscience, I'd rather have a singleton Progenitus instead or an Ashen Rider. At least I'll have an answer to whatever permanent my opp puts into play especially that Karakas.

:)

[Unassigned]

I forgot to post about my Invi results...

Obviously I was not Top 8, but did VERY well. I originally planned on playing UW Control & ANT, but was convinced to run RW Burn and Sneak & Show literally 30 minutes outside of Columbus. The reasoning that I was convinced is due to the fact that I spent a lot of my day on Wednesday developing (what I felt) was the perfect Sneak sideboard setup for the metagame. I went with the following:

Invitational List:

3 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

4 Lotus Petal

4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Intuition

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell

Sideboard:

3 Blood Moon
2 Ashen Rider
2 Through the Breach
2 Pyroclasm
2 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All.

... it was the perfect call for my matchups. I'm doing this all from memory, but I faced Elves, UWR Delver, 3x BUG decks, Miracles, Sneak & Show, and Reanimator throughout the event. In Legacy, I lost Day 1's first round of Legacy to my friend Kevin Gerhart who was on Shardless BUG (I was forced to Emrakul him to a lonely Baleful Strix while I was at 1. Went into 4x Ponders and 2x Brainstorms without seeing any other creature in G1). G2 I couldn't keep up with his tempo and succumbed to 2x Goyf's. I proceeded to win the remaining three rounds for X-3 and made the cut for Day Two.

The Day Two Standard luck shined on me and I was able to 4-0 it out. I'm already out of T8/T16 contention, but still able to cash if I don't lose 3 rounds of Legacy. I win the first round of Legacy against BUG Delver. Lost G1, won games 2 & 3 by baiting his counters and landing Blood Moon to lock him out of any non-FoW spells. I faced UWR Delver next. I get G1, he gets G2, and G3 I clear his board with Pyroclasm and Probe him. He shows 2x Daze and 2x Spell Pierce. I don't have enough mana to pay for the last Daze, but can after I play my land next turn so I pass. He draws and passes. I draw and move in... he topdecked his last Daze. Such is life. After this I faced the mirror and get G1 off of a fast Show-into-Sneak-into-both-men draw. Games 2 & 3 I have all of the draw spells, but never see any creatures. I noted on my life sheet that in games 1/2/3, not once did I ever see/draw any of my FoW's/Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm/Swan Songs. I need to win this last round to at least cash/make points. He mulls to Five and is on the play. Fetchland into U Sea into Entomb Sire of Insanity into Petal into Reanimate. I Force his Reanimate and of course his last card is a Daze. G2 I get out a T1 Cage and navigate into an easy win. G3 we both mull to 5 and I have a good amount of counters. He has three Duress and neuters my hand. I'm left with Gris, Ponder and Ancient Tomb in hand with 3x Volcs in play. He casts Show & Tell. with two cards left in hand. He's played a land and is tapped out. I have no choice but to put Gris into play and he puts a Tidespout in. "Do you have the Petal or Probe?" He casts Petal to bounce my Gris and I can safely pay 14 and proceed to completely brick on my draws. Ten of which are lands, two are Petals, with a Flusterstorm and another Ponder. Both Ponders give me nothing and I extend the hand. Oh well, it happens. I still Day Two'd (Kevin and I were the only ones in our group to Day Two) and had a blast with all of my friends. We went to Max & Erma's on Saturday night and I swear that our waitress has the patience of a saint. We gave her a lot to deal with, including a 6-shots-of-vodka-fueled Feline "Grandma" Longmore. :tongue:

Can't wait for Somerset in August and I'll definitely be in Columbus in November.

Now... something that I've been testing online and I'm extremely happy with the results is that I've been running a trio of Fire / Ice in the main deck. This has tremendously improved the problematic issues that we face Game 1 against a vast array of decks. It slows down Elves, hits Revoker/Thalia/Mother of Runes/Delver/Deathrite, taps an EOT Marit Lage or Karakas, pitches to Force of Will... it allowed me to win two matches last night at my local shop.

My current list has changed via -2 Probe, -1 SDT, -1 Intuition for +3 Fire / Ice, +1 Jace. I also swap out the 2 Swan Song for 2 Flusterstorm if I see more combo than Miracles.

[GoblinZ]

For those who play maindeck JtMS, Do you side out jace agaisnt RUG/BUG tempo?

And I have not played Todd Anderson's list yet, how do you sideboard in the match-up I mentioned above with his list? He does not even play Pyroblast or REB.

[J-Funk]

Now... something that I've been testing online and I'm extremely happy with the results is that I've been running a trio of Fire / Ice in the main deck. This has tremendously improved the problematic issues that we face Game 1 against a vast array of decks. It slows down Elves, hits Revoker/Thalia/Mother of Runes/Delver/Deathrite, taps an EOT Marit Lage or Karakas, pitches to Force of Will... it allowed me to win two matches last night at my local shop.

Oh my. I am in love with this idea. I'll be testing at my weekly tomorrow. I'm also currently testing a singleton Ashen Rider in the maindeck. I suspect it can help with the always frustrating Karakas matchups.

[Unassigned]

For those who play maindeck JtMS, Do you side out jace agaisnt RUG/BUG tempo?

And I have not played Todd Anderson's list yet, how do you sideboard in the match-up I mentioned above with his list? He does not even play Pyroblast or REB.

Against RUG, yes. Against BUG, no. I personally am not a fan of Todd's list. I only run a single Jace because I hate that it's a dead card in several matchups, or a 4cc one-shot Brainstorm in others.



Oh my. I am in love with this idea. I'll be testing at my weekly tomorrow. I'm also currently testing a singleton Ashen Rider in the maindeck. I suspect it can help with the always frustrating Karakas matchups.

How'd this work out for you? It's been amazing for me, online and live. I've had more than a few Game 1 opponent freakouts over a maindeck Fire hitting a Stoneforge Mystic or 2-for-1ing a Dryad Arbor + other Elf.

[J-Funk]

I'm really into it. I killed a couple of baleful strixes and a deathrite shaman over the course of the night. I'm going to run two of them at SCG Portland.

[JPA]

I'm really into it. I killed a couple of baleful strixes and a deathrite shaman over the course of the night. I'm going to run two of them at SCG Portland.

I'm not sure if Izzet Charm doesn't do the job just as good as Fire, while being more versatile and not dead in the Combo- and Miracles-matchup. Fire is definitely better against D&T and Elves.

Anyways, good luck in Portland!

[J-Funk]

I'm not sure if Izzet Charm doesn't do the job just as good as Fire, while being more versatile and not dead in the Combo- and Miracles-matchup. Fire is definitely better against D&T and Elves.

Anyways, good luck in Portland!

A valid point, but I think the 1 colorless in Fire/Ice is actually super relevant considering SOL lands, and ice tapping a karakas is extremely important, even if it works only once. It could be the difference.

[JPA]

ice tapping a karakas is extremely important

Nice, didn't think about the Ice-part being relevant. Mana-denial-shenanigans on the upkeep might also make a difference, especially against other combo decks.

[Unassigned]

Nice, didn't think about the Ice-part being relevant. Mana-denial-shenanigans on the upkeep might also make a difference, especially against other combo decks.

I'm loving the addition of Fire/Ice. I had tested Izzet Charm a long time ago, but it was far too clunky and was often sided out as not as versatile as I anticipated. As I listed at the end of Post #291, it's so critical to be able to hold off a Marit Lage or tap a Karakas EOT. I've been using it to great effect in the Elves and Death & Taxes matchups. It's also helped me in the early turns against Delver decks. In fact, last night I got a 2-for-1 on two unflipped Delvers Game 1. I'm just extremely happy with the addition and doubt that I'll be moving off of it anytime soon. While it's not amazing in the Miracles matchup, neither is Izzet Charm. But overall, I feel that this adds a main deck out against some of our worst matchups. Not to mention that it pitches to FoW... :D

[J-Funk]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69466

Well, we got there sorta. The losses occurred in round 3 to Death and Taxes and round 7 to BUG delver. BUG continues to be one of our hardest matchups, and in my loss I had to mulligan in the two games I lost. Winning that match starting with 6 is VERY difficult.

I'm in love with fire//ice. It did so much work today. MVP play was killing a Mother of Runes and a Phyrexian Revoker at end of turn after Mom was vialed in.

Jace also did incredible work. He's definitely there to stay.

Overall, I think this is still a premier deck. We still have bad matchups, but they are definitely winnable. I think BUG is probably the worst, so I'm going to be searching for better ways to handle that matchup. I was able to win against a BUG deck in round 9, which felt like a good piece of redemption.

[JPA]

Congrats Jeremy!

[Unassigned]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=69466

Well, we got there sorta. The losses occurred in round 3 to Death and Taxes and round 7 to BUG delver. BUG continues to be one of our hardest matchups, and in my loss I had to mulligan in the two games I lost. Winning that match starting with 6 is VERY difficult.

I'm in love with fire//ice. It did so much work today. MVP play was killing a Mother of Runes and a Phyrexian Revoker at end of turn after Mom was vialed in.

Jace also did incredible work. He's definitely there to stay.

Overall, I think this is still a premier deck. We still have bad matchups, but they are definitely winnable. I think BUG is probably the worst, so I'm going to be searching for better ways to handle that matchup. I was able to win against a BUG deck in round 9, which felt like a good piece of redemption.

Congrats on the nice finish, bud!

I don't know if it's me or what, but BUG (Shardless, Delver and Traditional Control) have recently been extremely easy for me. If I manage to get game 1, I'm boarding out all of my Forces, along with a mixture of others depending on what version I'm playing against, and I'm bringing in 2 Ashen Rider, 2 Through the Breach, 2 Pyroclasm and 3 Blood Moon. Sometimes I'll also bring in Boseiju and/or the Swan Songs/Flusterstorms. That match is traditionally about resources and I've felt that the Forces deplete you too much in a match where their plan is to run YOU out of resources, so don't play into their plan.

I'm very happy that you're enjoying the Fire/Ice plan. I tweeted Gerry Thompson about it since he's going to be writing an article about Sneak & Show in the next day or two on SCG. I'm expecting the usual complainers to be calling for the banning of Show & Tell or Griselbrand in the comments section.

Another idea I've been running online, believe it or not, has been running a trio of Batterskull in the sideboard. With the sol lands, it's been surprisingly good. While three may not be the correct number, it's definitely been hilarious to suit up an Emrakul into a 19/19 vigilant lifelinker.

btw, added you on FB Jeremy.

[J-Funk]

I was wondering who that was, makes sense now!

I find BUG most difficult because of all of the angles they can attack us from. In my match loss, the real and true killer was a resolved Lilliana. I really don't see a good way to come back from that card. I'm probably going to experiment with Pithing needles in the sideboard. Between Needle and Blood moon we should be able to completely turn off their threats. I'm also considering putting 1-2 Diverts in the board to send Thoughtseizes and Hymns back at their face. I feel Divert is probably better than Misdirection as BUG players tend to tap out for their early discard spells, and I don't want to be losing two cards for the play. I'll let you know where I end up.

[JPA]

the real and true killer was a resolved Lilliana. I really don't see a good way to come back from that card.

Top is pretty good against Liliana. It can help you find Sneak Attack while floating creature(s) on top, essentially enabling you to win with 0 cards in hand.

[Unassigned]

I was wondering who that was, makes sense now!

You mean who tweeted Gerry?

Also, SDT is beneficial, but I think that this is really matchup dependent. I like it in more of the aggro matchups instead of Jace, but Jace tends to win out against the field.

[The Duressed]

You mean who tweeted Gerry?

Also, SDT is beneficial, but I think that this is really matchup dependent. I like it in more of the aggro matchups instead of Jace, but Jace tends to win out against the field.

Does it win out against the field, though? I've been thinking about this for a while, and I keep flipping back and forth between Jace and SDT.

** SDT
RUG
BUG tempo
BUG Shardless
Patriot
Death and Taxes

** Jace
Miracles
Mirror
Omni-Show
Stoneblade

** Jace? They're both pretty bad
Reanimator
Storm
Elves

Agree? Disagree? It kind of seems like your choice depends mostly on the meta game you expect. I don't really like saying that because there probably should be an answer that is more correct in more situations, but I can't seem to find it.

[JPA]

Does it win out against the field, though? I've been thinking about this for a while, and I keep flipping back and forth between Jace and SDT.

** SDT
RUG
BUG tempo
BUG Shardless
Patriot
Death and Taxes

** Jace
Miracles
Mirror
Omni-Show
Stoneblade

** Jace? They're both pretty bad
Reanimator
Storm
Elves

Agree? Disagree? It kind of seems like your choice depends mostly on the meta game you expect. I don't really like saying that because there probably should be an answer that is more correct in more situations, but I can't seem to find it.

Disagreeing with your list. ;-) Top is excellent in any matchup where you have to fight against discard or, just like Jace, where the games go long. Both Top and Jace are not that great against Tempo decks (except BUG), since they are too slow most of the time. Jace is definitely higher impact than Top, but doesn't do anything against early-game discard.

[Unassigned]

Gerry Thompson gave a much appreciated shout out to Jeremy and I, Re: Fire // Ice.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28854_Portland-Two-Formats-Sixteen-Monsters.html?fb_action_ids=10104601654070275&fb_action_types=og.likes

[GoblinZ]

Does it win out against the field, though? I've been thinking about this for a while, and I keep flipping back and forth between Jace and SDT.

** SDT
RUG
BUG tempo
BUG Shardless
Patriot
Death and Taxes

** Jace
Miracles
Mirror
Omni-Show
Stoneblade

** Jace? They're both pretty bad
Reanimator
Storm
Elves

Agree? Disagree? It kind of seems like your choice depends mostly on the meta game you expect. I don't really like saying that because there probably should be an answer that is more correct in more situations, but I can't seem to find it.


I used to think top is bad against storm because it is too slow, but it turns out to be pretty good in some situations. playing top and hiding a fow on the top of library is really hard for them to get through...

And about Jace: after some testing, I finally drop the Jace for top and preodain...I predict my meta will become faster than before, playing Jace against DnT, burn or some tempo variant seems really poor...

And I doubt Jace is really great against miracle, especially post board. Tapping out for Jace is really a dangerous move imo, they may just blast your Jace and resolve Counterbalance, Jace or something else.

[J-Funk]

Loving the shout-out. Feels good, man. Re: this jace conversation, I am 100% on board with keeping him in at the moment. He does much good and gets us out of so many jams. Obviously there are matchup a where I want to cut him, but most of the time he is amazing. This is my own personal experience. I still want to find room for sdt, but I think I might actually be in the sideboard.



Gerry Thompson gave a much appreciated shout out to Jeremy and I, Re: Fire // Ice.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28854_Portland-Two-Formats-Sixteen-Monsters.html?fb_action_ids=10104601654070275&fb_action_types=og.likes

[i_b_TRUE]

Hey guys, another Sneak and Show player here! I also feel that Jace is necessary in the decklist. was wondering how you feel about Blood moon in the SB? Gerry T went over why its actually terrible in the decklist. what do you guys think?

[J-Funk]

Hey guys, another Sneak and Show player here! I also feel that Jace is necessary in the decklist. was wondering how you feel about Blood moon in the SB? Gerry T went over why its actually terrible in the decklist. what do you guys think?

I'm totally done with Blood Moon. Any game where it makes a difference is a game where my opponent is off to a bad start anyway. It almost never gets slammed on Turn 1, and by turn 2 or 3 an opponent usually has a DRS or Delver on the board, so it's only going to make so much of a difference. I'm excited to try Pithing Needle in its spot for now.

[i_b_TRUE]

Yes I have added in pithing needle as well... Great against SdT and Karakas. Also been testing misdirection as it was something GerryT thought needed to be added to the SB. He didn't like through the breach but I feel it's needed

[J-Funk]

Yes I have added in pithing needle as well... Great against SdT and Karakas. Also been testing misdirection as it was something GerryT thought needed to be added to the SB. He didn't like through the breach but I feel it's needed

I'm actually going to be testing Divert instead of Misdirection, but the thought is the same. I don't like the idea of having even more pitch cards in a deck where cantripping and countering is so important

[Unassigned]

Hey guys, another Sneak and Show player here! I also feel that Jace is necessary in the decklist. was wondering how you feel about Blood moon in the SB? Gerry T went over why its actually terrible in the decklist. what do you guys think?

Not sure about you guys, but Blood Moon is a must IMHO. Perhaps I'm having unusually positive results, but this has shut off so many decks that we really need to slow down. Reanimator (A really bad matchup for us) being one of them. In DRS matchups, I place a higher priority on countering or using a Fire/Ice on a DRS if I decide to go the Blood Moon route. Delver and Goyf are annoying while in play, but if you're already too behind to make Blood Moon worth it, then you shouldn't even bother with that path. Your main focus at that point should be trying to force through your threats. I ran into this situation several times and I have to disagree that Blood Moon is unnecessary.

TTB vs Omni is a tough call, because I feel that comparing them is like apples and oranges. They aren't meant to do the same thing. TTB is a "surprise!" tactic, while Omni is 99% of the time being paired with a Show & Tell.

[J-Funk]

Not sure about you guys, but Blood Moon is a must IMHO. Perhaps I'm having unusually positive results, but this has shut off so many decks that we really need to slow down. Reanimator (A really bad matchup for us) being one of them. In DRS matchups, I place a higher priority on countering or using a Fire/Ice on a DRS if I decide to go the Blood Moon route. Delver and Goyf are annoying while in play, but if you're already too behind to make Blood Moon worth it, then you shouldn't even bother with that path. Your main focus at that point should be trying to force through your threats. I ran into this situation several times and I have to disagree that Blood Moon is unnecessary.

TTB vs Omni is a tough call, because I feel that comparing them is like apples and oranges. They aren't meant to do the same thing. TTB is a "surprise!" tactic, while Omni is 99% of the time being paired with a Show & Tell.


Blood moon is one of those weird "your mileage may vary" cards that really comes down to personal experience. I think a lot of us have love/hate relationships with it because when it is good, it's incredible. But when it's a dead draw or comes down too late it's incredibly frustrating. I'm curious to see if I will miss it with my new SB build. I'll report back findings.

[menace13]

Reanimator (A really bad matchup for us) being one of them.
I dont think Moon is useful in that match up. Theyre much faster than any other combo deck not named storm. They need 1 swamp for the combo split up over a turn and a half. Even worse against lists with ritual.

[GoblinZ]

I dont think Moon is useful in that match up. Theyre much faster than any other combo deck not named storm. They need 1 swamp for the combo split up over a turn and a half. Even worse against lists with ritual.

even worse because they run petals...

[Unassigned]

I dont think Moon is useful in that match up. Theyre much faster than any other combo deck not named storm. They need 1 swamp for the combo split up over a turn and a half. Even worse against lists with ritual.

I've routinely brought in Blood Moon (on the play, not on the draw) and have had enough success to justify the inclusion of it in this matchup. While most builds do have a single Swamp and Island, saying that it's a bad concept because they have Petals and 2 basics while we bring it into matchups that have more sources than this feels like this is kind of a poor argument to make.

[The Duressed]

Loving this conversation about Jace, top, and moon. Here's another somewhat contentious issue: how do people feel about two Ashen Rider in the side? Where are the match ups that this really shines? Is it worth it?

[J-Funk]

Loving this conversation about Jace, top, and moon. Here's another somewhat contentious issue: how do people feel about two Ashen Rider in the side? Where are the match ups that this really shines? Is it worth it?

Death and Taxes, Junk/Maverick, and anything playing Karakas. It's a good card with a powerful ability, and I have certainly ridden it to victory against a few DnT decks. There was a brief period of time when Death and Taxes was everywhere that I was actually mainboarding one and only running three Emrakuls. I wasn't totally sold on it, but it's certainly an option. I'd say it's definitely meta dependent. If you're running into a lot of the junk, maverick, and D&T decks in your area I could see putting two in the sideboard (or one in the mainboard).

For fun, try sneak attacking your Ashen Rider for MAXIMUM VALUE!

[Unassigned]

Loving this conversation about Jace, top, and moon. Here's another somewhat contentious issue: how do people feel about two Ashen Rider in the side? Where are the match ups that this really shines? Is it worth it?


Ashen Rider has been a little pet of mine. I have a lot of 12 Post, Depths and D&T in my Meta. Karakas can be a pain, so this is a reliable answer and viable threat against these decks. It's also a strong card against Painter. I could see 1 or 2 being thrown into the main deck in a meta that is heavy against large bodies. I've been stopped Game 1 more than once to an Ensnaring Bridge and have considered a spot in the main, but as J-Funk said, it's a definite metagame call there. I don't think that I would have it in the main if I were heading to an Open, but who knows.

[GoblinZ]

Actually, that match seems weird for me... Even when I play painter against reanimator, I think moon is not good at all, especially on the draw. Unless I resolve a fast moon effect, moon could be really really bad if you topdeck one.

As Menace said above, a fast moon might lock yourself up instead of your opponent, while a later moon just does nothing.

And you need more counters, graveyard hates, TTB and bounces postboard, I don't think you have room for moon, which is much less efficient than other cards.

[Aggro_zombies]

This is a friendly reminder: when you see forum flames, report, don't reply! Pissing on each other derails the thread and generates more work for the mods.

[GoblinZ]

Todd Anderson lost to Bryant Cook with turn one Griselbrand...I cannot understand why he activated griselbrand's ability that turn...

[JPA]

Todd Anderson lost to Bryant Cook with turn one Griselbrand...I cannot understand why he activated griselbrand's ability that turn...

Because he didn't read the "How to use Griselbrand"-section in the primer.

[Unassigned]

Todd Anderson lost to Bryant Cook with turn one Griselbrand...I cannot understand why he activated griselbrand's ability that turn...

I'm really not sure. Maybe he was looking for a Lotus Petal? Still don't agree with that line though.

[GoblinZ]

I'm really not sure. Maybe he was looking for a Lotus Petal? Still don't agree with that line though.

I also saw he activate Griselbrand too early in game two, because he obviously was searching for a fast sneak kill, but he forgot he already cast three(maybe two?) petals before... When Cook cast Cabal Therapy, he hided two Fow on the top of the library. If I were Cook, I would blindly name Emrakul, which he did have one in hand. Then two fow would be shuffled away, and there was a chance that Todd could not draw any fow with one more activating.

[Unassigned]

I also saw he activate Griselbrand too early in game two, because he obviously was searching for a fast sneak kill, but he forgot he already cast three(maybe two?) petals before... When Cook cast Cabal Therapy, he hided two Fow on the top of the library. If I were Cook, I would blindly name Emrakul, which he did have one in hand. Then two fow would be shuffled away, and there was a chance that Todd could not draw any fow with one more activating.

Exactly. All he needed to do was pump the brakes and he could have easily coasted, but he didn't. G3, all he needed to do was sit back. If he sits back and doesn't draw, he makes his opponent go all in on a Wish or Tutor, that's when you dig for Force and wreck their day. I'm sure Todd has been reamed for this line of play already by friends/fellow players. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he just had a "brain fart" and lost his focus. Happens to all of us once in a while.

[TheRandomGuy]

Hi there! I'm a long time lurker here at The Source and started being active in Legacy since March 2014. I played Jund as my "return" deck from a long hiatus, then switched to "demons n' tentacles" aka Sneak Show last month. I had a 3-0 in my weekly using the deck for the first time before joining a big local legacy event the week after.
Here are my tournament reports on two events where I finished both at the Top 8 (also the first couple of major events that I played the deck :P). I apologize if it's gonna be a long read. Enjoy. :)

DISCLAIMER: Most of the round-by-round reports are from memory. This is my first time writing a report, so please spare me. :D

PART I

06/29/2014: Cerberus Legacy Open 8

Lands:
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 island
1 Mountain

Creatures:
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Intuition
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Misdirection

Sideboard:
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wipe Away
1 Pyroblast
1 Shattering Spree

Round 1: Esper Stoneblade w/ Deathrite Shaman (not DeathBlade, as per the deck's owner)

Game 1:
I went first and kept a hand with Probe, Lands, Show and Tell, Griselbrand, Force of Will, Ponder. I pondered to setup my next two turns and drew a Brainstorm. He went with Underground Sea and Deathrite Shaman. I probed him next turn to see if the coast is clear, and put Griselbrand into play via Show and Tell while he put another land in play. I drew 7 and win three turns later.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Force of Will -1 Spell Pierce -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Show And Tell
+3 blood moon +2 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away +2 Through the Breach

Game 2:
He goes first with Deathrite Shaman. I dig my deck for any protection to a second turn Liliana of the Veil but didn't find anything. Lucky for me, he didn't have a Liliana on his second turn. I kill his shaman with pyroclasm and attempted to cast Blood Moon but he countered it. I probed his hand and saw a Liliana and a Vendilion Clique. Lucky for me he got himself color screwed to not cast any of those threats (1). I dropped a sneak attack that turn and killed him with Griselbrand and Emrakul next turn.

1-0-0 (2-0)

Round 2: GW Maverick

Game 1:
He goes first with Fetch, Savannah, Noble Hierach. I went with the usual business spell openers, but then he played Thalia. He didn't have any wastelands so I risked playing my sol lands to have me cast expensive business spells (casting a 1U Ponder sucks T_T). He continues to build his board state with Dryad Arbor and a Sylvan Library, then two turns and a handful of beatings from Thalia and Arbor later, I managed to put Sneak Attack into play via Show and Tell, and he put a Knight of the Reliquary in play, then passed the turn. I have two red sources open and a Scalding Tarn then dropped Griselbrand, drew 7 and proceeded to the combat phase. I played Emrakul via Sneak Attack during the beginning of combat step, then he put Karakas into play via Knight of the Reliquary's activation. He bounced Emrakul during that step, I let it resolve and put Emrakul back into play by cracking Scalding Tarn for a Volcanic Island to put Emrakul into play again (we are still in the beginning of combat step). He calls a judge to ask if it's still legal, in which it is, since it is our play around Karakas anyway. The judge explains to him the rules and I proceed to annihilate him with Griselbrand and Emrakul that turn.

SB:
-1 Misdirection -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Show and Tell -1 Spell Pierce -3 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -1 Intuition
+2 Through the Breach +3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +2 Grafdigger's cage +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
I keep a hand of Ponder, 3 Lands, Pyroclasm, Show and Tell and a Spell Pierce. He mulligans to 6 and opens up with Noble Hierarch. I Pondered to Pyroclasm, Griselbrand, Fetch and drew the Pyroclasm. Next turn he plays a qasali pridemage and attacked me for 2. I killed both with Pyroclasm and passed the turn. He then pushed back by playing both Thalia and Mother of Runes and passed the turn. I kill both of them again with Pyroclasm. He plays a lone Dryad Arbor on his turn while I play a Griselbrand via Show and Tell on mine. Good thing he dropped a land and is on top deck mode. I lock him up with Blood Moon as he extends his hand.

2-0-0 (4-0)

Round 3: URW Patriot (He's also in the Top 8 too)

Game 1:
He goes first and plays Volcanic Island, Ponder, go (I have a feeling that this is going to be the mirror x_x). I played an open Island and passed the turn. He then cracked a fetch to a Tundra and played a Delver of Secrets. I played a fetchland and played ponder to set up my next turns, he then plays a Stoneforge Mystic searching for a Batterskull. I probe him next turn to check if the coast is clear, and cast Show and Tell dropping Emrakul. I attacked the following turn and we're on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Spell Pierce
+3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +1 Pyroblast +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
This game was a really close. He had me at 6 life due to delver beats but survived thanks to Pyroblast. Lucky for me he didn't have red mana to finish me off with Lightning Bolt. All he had was a wasteland and a Tundra and a lone Lightning Bolt in his hand after we went to a counter-war for my Show and Tell (As I had a Griselbrand in my hand). I played a Blood Moon to lock him out of blue mana (for Ponder and Brainstorm to dig for another Lightning Bolt). He then rips another Lightning Bolt from the top of his deck and kills me on the spot. (2)

No changes in the SB

Game 3:
I'll keep this short. He established his tempo with Delver and locked me out with Meddling Mage naming Show and Tell. I tried to fight back with Pyroclasm but ended up losing the counter war. I die a few turns later.

2-1-0 (5-2)

Round 4: UG Berserk Infect

Game 1:
I go first by playing Island and passing the turn. He goes first with a Tropical Island to a Glistener Elf. I probe him to drop Emrakul on the second turn as he puts an Inkmoth Nexus. I attack next turn and he doesn't recover from Emrakul's annihilating tentacles and went on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
He starts with an Inkmoth Nexus. I did the deck's usual openers and he played a Blighted Agent. I endure his poisonous attacks with the agent and an animated Inkmoth Nexus and then drops a Glistener Elf. I kill his creatures with Pyroclasm and stabilized by countering pump spells targetting the Inkmoth Nexus. A few turns later, I play Sneak Attack and annihilate him with Emrakul, he takes 15 and concedes.

3-1-0 (7-2)

Round 5: MUD

Game 1:
I go first with Island, Ponder and Petal. He mulls to 5 and goes Ancient Tomb, Lightning Greaves. I then play a land and cast Show and Tell putting Emrakul into play while he puts a Blightsteel Colossus. He equipped Blightsteel Colossus with Lightning Greaves and attacked. I blocked with Emrakul and reduced to a mere 4/4. I attack next turn and he concedes.

SB:
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -2 Show and Tell -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Blood Moon +1 Wipe Away +1 Shattering Spree +2 Through the Breach


Game 2:
I have a Ponder, Petal, Lands ( an Ancient Tomb, a volcanic island a fetchland), Show and Tell, Griselbrand as my starting had. He opens up with Ancient Tomb to Metalworker. I set up with fetchland to Volcanic Island then Ponder (which has a land, a Shattering Spree and another petal in it) I took Shattering Spree and played Lotus Petal then passed the turn. He then plays Grim Monolith to Trinisphere while I did nothing and just played a land. He then plays another Grim Monolith by tapping Metalworker revealing a Lodestone Golem and passed. I drew the Lotus Petal, played my Sol Land and Passed. An uncounterable Lodestone Golem comes into play thanks to a Cavern of Souls and the untapped Grim Monolith. I drew the petal, then cast Shattering Spree targetting the Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem using 2 volcanic islands and Ancient Tomb to pay for the spell with replicate(3). I play my Lotus Petal and cast Show and Tell to Griselbrand as he puts another Metalworker into Play. I drew 7 and a few attacks and counterspells later, I'm in the Top 8. :D

4-1-0 (9-2)

Round 6: ID to Top 8

4-1-1 (9-2)

***Playoff Rounds***

Quarterfinals: Burn

Game 1:
My opponent as higher seed went first as he beats me with Goblin Guide and burns me off to 8 life. He has a couple of cards in his hand land as I cast Show and Tell to an Emrakul as he drops a land. I attack and annihilate him and we move on to game two.

SB:
-1 intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Scultpor -1 force of will -1 gitaxian probe -2 lotus petal
+1 shattering spree +1 wipe away +3 pyroclasm

Game 2:
He went first with Goblin Guide, then follows up with Grim Lavamancer, then Vexing Shusher. I killed them all with Pyroclasm. After he passes his turn, I cast a Sneak Attack and pass the turn back to him. He tries to burn me but my counters save me, I drop Griselbrand and Emrakul and attack for the win.

(11-2)

Sadly, I got beaten by Miracles on the semi-finals with a really close match. He has all the answers and just beats me up with Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster Mage. Sensei's Divining Top is just bonkers. I scooped up my cards, wished my opponent the best of luck and thanked him for the experience (as he is one of the veteran players here). Good for him that he won the tournament. :P

(1)Well he could have cast Liliana on his last turn to have me discard since I only have like three cards in hand, but he thought that I didn't have anything and opted to wait instead. I got lucky that I drew an Emrakul from my Griseldraw. He wasn't able to get another blue source to cast his vendilion clique. :(
(2) Was playing Blood Moon in this situation right here? I didn't have anything and all I needed was to lock him out of blue mana for him not to ponder or brainstorm for me to have enough time to dig for a Sneak Attack or Show and Tell to turn the tide.
(3) I dunno if what I did was legal, but I confirmed from my opponent himself that the replicate cost will still be the same even if Trinisphere is in play. He also clarified that it'll still cost me 3 mana to cast Shattering Spree even if it's taxed by Lodestone Golem as long as Trinisphere is in play. Clear me up on this guys. :)

*I know, I board in more than what is necessary for every matchup. If you have any sideboarding tips or a sideboard configuration, that would be much helpful!

Stay tuned for Part II guys!

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!

[blindspotxxx]

Hi there! I'm a long time lurker here at The Source and started being active in Legacy since March 2014. I played Jund as my "return" deck from a long hiatus, then switched to "demons n' tentacles" aka Sneak Show last month. I had a 3-0 in my weekly using the deck for the first time before joining a big local legacy event the week after.
Here are my tournament reports on two events where I finished both at the Top 8 (also the first couple of major events that I played the deck :P). I apologize if it's gonna be a long read. Enjoy. :)

DISCLAIMER: Most of the round-by-round reports are from memory. This is my first time writing a report, so please spare me. :D

PART I

06/29/2014: Cerberus Legacy Open 8

Lands:
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 island
1 Mountain

Creatures:
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Intuition
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Misdirection

Sideboard:
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wipe Away
1 Pyroblast
1 Shattering Spree

Round 1: Esper Stoneblade w/ Deathrite Shaman (not DeathBlade, as per the deck's owner)

Game 1:
I went first and kept a hand with Probe, Lands, Show and Tell, Griselbrand, Force of Will, Ponder. I pondered to setup my next two turns and drew a Brainstorm. He went with Underground Sea and Deathrite Shaman. I probed him next turn to see if the coast is clear, and put Griselbrand into play via Show and Tell while he put another land in play. I drew 7 and win three turns later.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Force of Will -1 Spell Pierce -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Show And Tell
+3 blood moon +2 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away +2 Through the Breach

Game 2:
He goes first with Deathrite Shaman. I dig my deck for any protection to a second turn Liliana of the Veil but didn't find anything. Lucky for me, he didn't have a Liliana on his second turn. I kill his shaman with pyroclasm and attempted to cast Blood Moon but he countered it. I probed his hand and saw a Liliana and a Vendilion Clique. Lucky for me he got himself color screwed to not cast any of those threats (1). I dropped a sneak attack that turn and killed him with Griselbrand and Emrakul next turn.

1-0-0 (2-0)

Round 2: GW Maverick

Game 1:
He goes first with Fetch, Savannah, Noble Hierach. I went with the usual business spell openers, but then he played Thalia. He didn't have any wastelands so I risked playing my sol lands to have me cast expensive business spells (casting a 1U Ponder sucks T_T). He continues to build his board state with Dryad Arbor and a Sylvan Library, then two turns and a handful of beatings from Thalia and Arbor later, I managed to put Sneak Attack into play via Show and Tell, and he put a Knight of the Reliquary in play, then passed the turn. I have two red sources open and a Scalding Tarn then dropped Griselbrand, drew 7 and proceeded to the combat phase. I played Emrakul via Sneak Attack during the beginning of combat step, then he put Karakas into play via Knight of the Reliquary's activation. He bounced Emrakul during that step, I let it resolve and put Emrakul back into play by cracking Scalding Tarn for a Volcanic Island to put Emrakul into play again (we are still in the beginning of combat step). He calls a judge to ask if it's still legal, in which it is, since it is our play around Karakas anyway. The judge explains to him the rules and I proceed to annihilate him with Griselbrand and Emrakul that turn.

SB:
-1 Misdirection -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Show and Tell -1 Spell Pierce -3 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -1 Intuition
+2 Through the Breach +3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +2 Grafdigger's cage +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
I keep a hand of Ponder, 3 Lands, Pyroclasm, Show and Tell and a Spell Pierce. He mulligans to 6 and opens up with Noble Hierarch. I Pondered to Pyroclasm, Griselbrand, Fetch and drew the Pyroclasm. Next turn he plays a qasali pridemage and attacked me for 2. I killed both with Pyroclasm and passed the turn. He then pushed back by playing both Thalia and Mother of Runes and passed the turn. I kill both of them again with Pyroclasm. He plays a lone Dryad Arbor on his turn while I play a Griselbrand via Show and Tell on mine. Good thing he dropped a land and is on top deck mode. I lock him up with Blood Moon as he extends his hand.

2-0-0 (4-0)

Round 3: URW Patriot (He's also in the Top 8 too)

Game 1:
He goes first and plays Volcanic Island, Ponder, go (I have a feeling that this is going to be the mirror x_x). I played an open Island and passed the turn. He then cracked a fetch to a Tundra and played a Delver of Secrets. I played a fetchland and played ponder to set up my next turns, he then plays a Stoneforge Mystic searching for a Batterskull. I probe him next turn to check if the coast is clear, and cast Show and Tell dropping Emrakul. I attacked the following turn and we're on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Spell Pierce
+3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +1 Pyroblast +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
This game was a really close. He had me at 6 life due to delver beats but survived thanks to Pyroblast. Lucky for me he didn't have red mana to finish me off with Lightning Bolt. All he had was a wasteland and a Tundra and a lone Lightning Bolt in his hand after we went to a counter-war for my Show and Tell (As I had a Griselbrand in my hand). I played a Blood Moon to lock him out of blue mana (for Ponder and Brainstorm to dig for another Lightning Bolt). He then rips another Lightning Bolt from the top of his deck and kills me on the spot. (2)

No changes in the SB

Game 3:
I'll keep this short. He established his tempo with Delver and locked me out with Meddling Mage naming Show and Tell. I tried to fight back with Pyroclasm but ended up losing the counter war. I die a few turns later.

2-1-0 (5-2)

Round 4: UG Berserk Infect

Game 1:
I go first by playing Island and passing the turn. He goes first with a Tropical Island to a Glistener Elf. I probe him to drop Emrakul on the second turn as he puts an Inkmoth Nexus. I attack next turn and he doesn't recover from Emrakul's annihilating tentacles and went on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
He starts with an Inkmoth Nexus. I did the deck's usual openers and he played a Blighted Agent. I endure his poisonous attacks with the agent and an animated Inkmoth Nexus and then drops a Glistener Elf. I kill his creatures with Pyroclasm and stabilized by countering pump spells targetting the Inkmoth Nexus. A few turns later, I play Sneak Attack and annihilate him with Emrakul, he takes 15 and concedes.

3-1-0 (7-2)

Round 5: MUD

Game 1:
I go first with Island, Ponder and Petal. He mulls to 5 and goes Ancient Tomb, Lightning Greaves. I then play a land and cast Show and Tell putting Emrakul into play while he puts a Blightsteel Colossus. He equipped Blightsteel Colossus with Lightning Greaves and attacked. I blocked with Emrakul and reduced to a mere 4/4. I attack next turn and he concedes.

SB:
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -2 Show and Tell -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Blood Moon +1 Wipe Away +1 Shattering Spree +2 Through the Breach


Game 2:
I have a Ponder, Petal, Lands ( an Ancient Tomb, a volcanic island a fetchland), Show and Tell, Griselbrand as my starting had. He opens up with Ancient Tomb to Metalworker. I set up with fetchland to Volcanic Island then Ponder (which has a land, a Shattering Spree and another petal in it) I took Shattering Spree and played Lotus Petal then passed the turn. He then plays Grim Monolith to Trinisphere while I did nothing and just played a land. He then plays another Grim Monolith by tapping Metalworker revealing a Lodestone Golem and passed. I drew the Lotus Petal, played my Sol Land and Passed. An uncounterable Lodestone Golem comes into play thanks to a Cavern of Souls and the untapped Grim Monolith. I drew the petal, then cast Shattering Spree targetting the Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem using 2 volcanic islands and Ancient Tomb to pay for the spell with replicate(3). I play my Lotus Petal and cast Show and Tell to Griselbrand as he puts another Metalworker into Play. I drew 7 and a few attacks and counterspells later, I'm in the Top 8. :D

4-1-0 (9-2)

Round 6: ID to Top 8

4-1-1 (9-2)

***Playoff Rounds***

Quarterfinals: Burn

Game 1:
My opponent as higher seed went first as he beats me with Goblin Guide and burns me off to 8 life. He has a couple of cards in his hand land as I cast Show and Tell to an Emrakul as he drops a land. I attack and annihilate him and we move on to game two.

SB:
-1 intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Scultpor -1 force of will -1 gitaxian probe -2 lotus petal
+1 shattering spree +1 wipe away +3 pyroclasm

Game 2:
He went first with Goblin Guide, then follows up with Grim Lavamancer, then Vexing Shusher. I killed them all with Pyroclasm. After he passes his turn, I cast a Sneak Attack and pass the turn back to him. He tries to burn me but my counters save me, I drop Griselbrand and Emrakul and attack for the win.

(11-2)

Sadly, I got beaten by Miracles on the semi-finals with a really close match. He has all the answers and just beats me up with Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster Mage. Sensei's Divining Top is just bonkers. I scooped up my cards, wished my opponent the best of luck and thanked him for the experience (as he is one of the veteran players here). Good for him that he won the tournament. :P

(1)Well he could have cast Liliana on his last turn to have me discard since I only have like three cards in hand, but he thought that I didn't have anything and opted to wait instead. I got lucky that I drew an Emrakul from my Griseldraw. He wasn't able to get another blue source to cast his vendilion clique. :(
(2) Was playing Blood Moon in this situation right here? I didn't have anything and all I needed was to lock him out of blue mana for him not to ponder or brainstorm for me to have enough time to dig for a Sneak Attack or Show and Tell to turn the tide.
(3) I dunno if what I did was legal, but I confirmed from my opponent himself that the replicate cost will still be the same even if Trinisphere is in play. He also clarified that it'll still cost me 3 mana to cast Shattering Spree even if it's taxed by Lodestone Golem as long as Trinisphere is in play. Clear me up on this guys. :)

*I know, I board in more than what is necessary for every matchup. If you have any sideboarding tips or a sideboard configuration, that would be much helpful!

Stay tuned for Part II guys!

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!

These are what I would board out.

Against Burn I would cut the Gitaxian Probes and not the Petals.

Against Maverick I wouldn't cut the Petals for Grafdigger's.

Against Deathblade I would cut all Petals as the game will become an attrition war.

[Hank Zhong]

Hi there! I'm a long time lurker here at The Source and started being active in Legacy since March 2014. I played Jund as my "return" deck from a long hiatus, then switched to "demons n' tentacles" aka Sneak Show last month. I had a 3-0 in my weekly using the deck for the first time before joining a big local legacy event the week after.
Here are my tournament reports on two events where I finished both at the Top 8 (also the first couple of major events that I played the deck :P). I apologize if it's gonna be a long read. Enjoy. :)

DISCLAIMER: Most of the round-by-round reports are from memory. This is my first time writing a report, so please spare me. :D

PART I

06/29/2014: Cerberus Legacy Open 8

Lands:
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 island
1 Mountain

Creatures:
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Intuition
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Misdirection

Sideboard:
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wipe Away
1 Pyroblast
1 Shattering Spree

Round 1: Esper Stoneblade w/ Deathrite Shaman (not DeathBlade, as per the deck's owner)

Game 1:
I went first and kept a hand with Probe, Lands, Show and Tell, Griselbrand, Force of Will, Ponder. I pondered to setup my next two turns and drew a Brainstorm. He went with Underground Sea and Deathrite Shaman. I probed him next turn to see if the coast is clear, and put Griselbrand into play via Show and Tell while he put another land in play. I drew 7 and win three turns later.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Force of Will -1 Spell Pierce -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Show And Tell
+3 blood moon +2 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away +2 Through the Breach

Game 2:
He goes first with Deathrite Shaman. I dig my deck for any protection to a second turn Liliana of the Veil but didn't find anything. Lucky for me, he didn't have a Liliana on his second turn. I kill his shaman with pyroclasm and attempted to cast Blood Moon but he countered it. I probed his hand and saw a Liliana and a Vendilion Clique. Lucky for me he got himself color screwed to not cast any of those threats (1). I dropped a sneak attack that turn and killed him with Griselbrand and Emrakul next turn.

1-0-0 (2-0)

Round 2: GW Maverick

Game 1:
He goes first with Fetch, Savannah, Noble Hierach. I went with the usual business spell openers, but then he played Thalia. He didn't have any wastelands so I risked playing my sol lands to have me cast expensive business spells (casting a 1U Ponder sucks T_T). He continues to build his board state with Dryad Arbor and a Sylvan Library, then two turns and a handful of beatings from Thalia and Arbor later, I managed to put Sneak Attack into play via Show and Tell, and he put a Knight of the Reliquary in play, then passed the turn. I have two red sources open and a Scalding Tarn then dropped Griselbrand, drew 7 and proceeded to the combat phase. I played Emrakul via Sneak Attack during the beginning of combat step, then he put Karakas into play via Knight of the Reliquary's activation. He bounced Emrakul during that step, I let it resolve and put Emrakul back into play by cracking Scalding Tarn for a Volcanic Island to put Emrakul into play again (we are still in the beginning of combat step). He calls a judge to ask if it's still legal, in which it is, since it is our play around Karakas anyway. The judge explains to him the rules and I proceed to annihilate him with Griselbrand and Emrakul that turn.

SB:
-1 Misdirection -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Show and Tell -1 Spell Pierce -3 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -1 Intuition
+2 Through the Breach +3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +2 Grafdigger's cage +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
I keep a hand of Ponder, 3 Lands, Pyroclasm, Show and Tell and a Spell Pierce. He mulligans to 6 and opens up with Noble Hierarch. I Pondered to Pyroclasm, Griselbrand, Fetch and drew the Pyroclasm. Next turn he plays a qasali pridemage and attacked me for 2. I killed both with Pyroclasm and passed the turn. He then pushed back by playing both Thalia and Mother of Runes and passed the turn. I kill both of them again with Pyroclasm. He plays a lone Dryad Arbor on his turn while I play a Griselbrand via Show and Tell on mine. Good thing he dropped a land and is on top deck mode. I lock him up with Blood Moon as he extends his hand.

2-0-0 (4-0)

Round 3: URW Patriot (He's also in the Top 8 too)

Game 1:
He goes first and plays Volcanic Island, Ponder, go (I have a feeling that this is going to be the mirror x_x). I played an open Island and passed the turn. He then cracked a fetch to a Tundra and played a Delver of Secrets. I played a fetchland and played ponder to set up my next turns, he then plays a Stoneforge Mystic searching for a Batterskull. I probe him next turn to check if the coast is clear, and cast Show and Tell dropping Emrakul. I attacked the following turn and we're on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Spell Pierce
+3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +1 Pyroblast +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
This game was a really close. He had me at 6 life due to delver beats but survived thanks to Pyroblast. Lucky for me he didn't have red mana to finish me off with Lightning Bolt. All he had was a wasteland and a Tundra and a lone Lightning Bolt in his hand after we went to a counter-war for my Show and Tell (As I had a Griselbrand in my hand). I played a Blood Moon to lock him out of blue mana (for Ponder and Brainstorm to dig for another Lightning Bolt). He then rips another Lightning Bolt from the top of his deck and kills me on the spot. (2)

No changes in the SB

Game 3:
I'll keep this short. He established his tempo with Delver and locked me out with Meddling Mage naming Show and Tell. I tried to fight back with Pyroclasm but ended up losing the counter war. I die a few turns later.

2-1-0 (5-2)

Round 4: UG Berserk Infect

Game 1:
I go first by playing Island and passing the turn. He goes first with a Tropical Island to a Glistener Elf. I probe him to drop Emrakul on the second turn as he puts an Inkmoth Nexus. I attack next turn and he doesn't recover from Emrakul's annihilating tentacles and went on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
He starts with an Inkmoth Nexus. I did the deck's usual openers and he played a Blighted Agent. I endure his poisonous attacks with the agent and an animated Inkmoth Nexus and then drops a Glistener Elf. I kill his creatures with Pyroclasm and stabilized by countering pump spells targetting the Inkmoth Nexus. A few turns later, I play Sneak Attack and annihilate him with Emrakul, he takes 15 and concedes.

3-1-0 (7-2)

Round 5: MUD

Game 1:
I go first with Island, Ponder and Petal. He mulls to 5 and goes Ancient Tomb, Lightning Greaves. I then play a land and cast Show and Tell putting Emrakul into play while he puts a Blightsteel Colossus. He equipped Blightsteel Colossus with Lightning Greaves and attacked. I blocked with Emrakul and reduced to a mere 4/4. I attack next turn and he concedes.

SB:
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -2 Show and Tell -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Blood Moon +1 Wipe Away +1 Shattering Spree +2 Through the Breach


Game 2:
I have a Ponder, Petal, Lands ( an Ancient Tomb, a volcanic island a fetchland), Show and Tell, Griselbrand as my starting had. He opens up with Ancient Tomb to Metalworker. I set up with fetchland to Volcanic Island then Ponder (which has a land, a Shattering Spree and another petal in it) I took Shattering Spree and played Lotus Petal then passed the turn. He then plays Grim Monolith to Trinisphere while I did nothing and just played a land. He then plays another Grim Monolith by tapping Metalworker revealing a Lodestone Golem and passed. I drew the Lotus Petal, played my Sol Land and Passed. An uncounterable Lodestone Golem comes into play thanks to a Cavern of Souls and the untapped Grim Monolith. I drew the petal, then cast Shattering Spree targetting the Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem using 2 volcanic islands and Ancient Tomb to pay for the spell with replicate(3). I play my Lotus Petal and cast Show and Tell to Griselbrand as he puts another Metalworker into Play. I drew 7 and a few attacks and counterspells later, I'm in the Top 8. :D

4-1-0 (9-2)

Round 6: ID to Top 8

4-1-1 (9-2)

***Playoff Rounds***

Quarterfinals: Burn

Game 1:
My opponent as higher seed went first as he beats me with Goblin Guide and burns me off to 8 life. He has a couple of cards in his hand land as I cast Show and Tell to an Emrakul as he drops a land. I attack and annihilate him and we move on to game two.

SB:
-1 intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Scultpor -1 force of will -1 gitaxian probe -2 lotus petal
+1 shattering spree +1 wipe away +3 pyroclasm

Game 2:
He went first with Goblin Guide, then follows up with Grim Lavamancer, then Vexing Shusher. I killed them all with Pyroclasm. After he passes his turn, I cast a Sneak Attack and pass the turn back to him. He tries to burn me but my counters save me, I drop Griselbrand and Emrakul and attack for the win.

(11-2)

Sadly, I got beaten by Miracles on the semi-finals with a really close match. He has all the answers and just beats me up with Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster Mage. Sensei's Divining Top is just bonkers. I scooped up my cards, wished my opponent the best of luck and thanked him for the experience (as he is one of the veteran players here). Good for him that he won the tournament. :P

(1)Well he could have cast Liliana on his last turn to have me discard since I only have like three cards in hand, but he thought that I didn't have anything and opted to wait instead. I got lucky that I drew an Emrakul from my Griseldraw. He wasn't able to get another blue source to cast his vendilion clique. :(
(2) Was playing Blood Moon in this situation right here? I didn't have anything and all I needed was to lock him out of blue mana for him not to ponder or brainstorm for me to have enough time to dig for a Sneak Attack or Show and Tell to turn the tide.
(3) I dunno if what I did was legal, but I confirmed from my opponent himself that the replicate cost will still be the same even if Trinisphere is in play. He also clarified that it'll still cost me 3 mana to cast Shattering Spree even if it's taxed by Lodestone Golem as long as Trinisphere is in play. Clear me up on this guys. :)

*I know, I board in more than what is necessary for every matchup. If you have any sideboarding tips or a sideboard configuration, that would be much helpful!

Stay tuned for Part II guys!

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!

Sweet report and congrats on the finish!

I've recently crossed over to Sneak and Show from Reanimators and have been loving the deck so far. One thing I've been trying out in the sideboard is 3-4 red elemental blasts / pyroblasts. It may seem like a lot but when 9 out 10 top decks play blue (the only non-blue decks being D&T and Elves), it's almost never bad. Most importantly though, it kills delvers. I realized that blue deck are all fairly manageable as long as they don't have a delver pressuring us.

In your report, it looks like if you had more blasts, you could've won alot more counter wars and killed more delvers. Speaking of blue, another card I like out of the sideboard right now is defense grid. It is great against all the blue decks not playing black for discard, i.e. rug delver, miracles, uwr delver. I like it over boseiju, which is slow, gets wasted, costs life, and doesn't protect your sneak attacks. I have also been unimpressed with blood moon lately, mostly due to being bad against a resolved delver. It seems great on paper, but definitely worse in practice. A couple in the SB might still be correct, in conjunction with REBs to kill resolved delvers.

With 3 SB blasts, the decks I'm most afraid of playing are BUG delver and D&T, and I've been trying out different cards. MD Fire and Ice seems like a sweet against D&T so that's definitely an option. For BUG, maybe divert could be a good SB option.

[Unassigned]

Sweet report and congrats on the finish!

I've recently crossed over to Sneak and Show from Reanimators and have been loving the deck so far. One thing I've been trying out in the sideboard is 3-4 red elemental blasts / pyroblasts. It may seem like a lot but when 9 out 10 top decks play blue (the only non-blue decks being D&T and Elves), it's almost never bad. Most importantly though, it kills delvers. I realized that blue deck are all fairly manageable as long as they don't have a delver pressuring us.

In your report, it looks like if you had more blasts, you could've won alot more counter wars and killed more delvers. Speaking of blue, another card I like out of the sideboard right now is defense grid. It is great against all the blue decks not playing black for discard, i.e. rug delver, miracles, uwr delver. I like it over boseiju, which is slow, gets wasted, costs life, and doesn't protect your sneak attacks. I have also been unimpressed with blood moon lately, mostly due to being bad against a resolved delver. It seems great on paper, but definitely worse in practice. A couple in the SB might still be correct, in conjunction with REBs to kill resolved delvers.

With 3 SB blasts, the decks I'm most afraid of playing are BUG delver and D&T, and I've been trying out different cards. MD Fire and Ice seems like a sweet against D&T so that's definitely an option. For BUG, maybe divert could be a good SB option.

Welcome to the Dark Side. :)

Blasts are hardly ever a bad call to include in your sideboard. I think that the number is completely dependent upon your metagame.

Fire // Ice was discussed back on Page 15. It's been doing pretty decent work in our main decks. This is also a complete meta call. I ended up taking them out this week in favor of 2 main deck Ashen Riders to see how they tested against a heavy Miracles meta at my local store. I hardly ever drew them, so I didn't get much feedback. Still Top 4'd for some prize money. :)

As for Blood Moon, it seems to be falling out of favor to more people lately. If you had to take it out, what would you replace it with to compensate?

[nodahero]

I think the replacment for blood moon is very dpenendent on your meta. I think common alternatives in boards (as in cards I rarely see along side blood moon) include Leyline and Defense grid.

[i_b_TRUE]

So I got some testing in today vs Burn, Jund, Elves, DnT and Miracles. I cut the x3 Blood Moon for x3 Leyline of Sanctity... I was very dissapointed with Leyline as Burn played around it with their creatures and Eidilon is still very annoying since it doesnt target. And vs Jund it was decent at best. (I think Blood Moon is still going to keep its spot there as its an Auto Win usually in alot of matchups.)

vs Burn
The matchup is fairly easy G1 as they cannot disrupt the combo but make sure you kill them before they kill you. SB games, you just need to be leery of Ensnaring Bridge and Pyroblasts. I usually bring in the 1 Echoing Truth for another out to Bridge with Shattering Spree. All of the games I lost was when i had to mulligan and had terrible starts.

7-5 Win

vs Jund

This is another easy one... since that don't have FoW its pretty easy to beat them... Just hold your FoWs for Liliana and Discard if necessary. I tried Misdirection but I dont like being down so many cards along with FoW. There was discussion with Divert, but I am not sure if its good or not. Can anyone give some feedback on the BUG Delver matchup? (Since it plays closely to Jund style with discard spells)

5-1 Win

vs Elves

Another easy G1, just hold FoW or Spell Pierce for their NO or GSZ... or sometimes Glimpse depending the situation but usually its an auto counter since they are trying to go off. SB games get a little tricky since they bring in Progentius, Ruricthar etc... I usually board out 2 Show and Tell for 2 TTB. Grafdiggers Cage is also really good vs them.

5-1 Win

vs DnT

Our worst matchup by far... I did test Fire/Ice vs them and it was pretty good. Karakas is just so annoying but there is not much we can do. G1 games I was getting stomped (without Fire/Ice) SB games, I bring in Needle for Karakas and it seems to do the job. Thalia is also an issue, but nothing that just beats us. Anyone have other suggestions vs DnT? I also feel that this deck is terrible unless its against us, lol.

1-3 Loss

vs Miracles

This is one of the most grindy matchups for us. We did not get to test any SB games today unfortunately. But we played 3 MB games and they matchups were very tight. My plan was to counter all of his Tops or Counterbalances which destorys their gameplan. I am not to sure how to SB vs them, but Pithing Needle is very good vs Top and our MB Jace's are also very good in the MU... Also assuming Swan Song is a house vs them.

2-1 Win

My Current Decklist...

MB
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul

4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
1 Intuition
4 Show and Tell
2 Jace, TMS
4 Sneak Attack
4 FoW

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
3 Volcanic Island

SB
1 Boseiju
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Pithing Needle (might want 2)
1 Shattering Spree (might cut)
2 Swan Song
1 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon (cut Leyline as it underperformed)
2 TTB (might want 3)

Let me know any feedback... I would also like some advice on the RUG/BUG/UWR Delver matchups as no one at my LGS plays these.

[mulder]

Game 2:
I have a Ponder, Petal, Lands ( an Ancient Tomb, a volcanic island a fetchland), Show and Tell, Griselbrand as my starting had. He opens up with Ancient Tomb to Metalworker. I set up with fetchland to Volcanic Island then Ponder (which has a land, a Shattering Spree and another petal in it) I took Shattering Spree and played Lotus Petal then passed the turn. He then plays Grim Monolith to Trinisphere while I did nothing and just played a land. He then plays another Grim Monolith by tapping Metalworker revealing a Lodestone Golem and passed. I drew the Lotus Petal, played my Sol Land and Passed. An uncounterable Lodestone Golem comes into play thanks to a Cavern of Souls and the untapped Grim Monolith. I drew the petal, then cast Shattering Spree targetting the Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem using 2 volcanic islands and Ancient Tomb to pay for the spell with replicate(3). I play my Lotus Petal and cast Show and Tell to Griselbrand as he puts another Metalworker into Play. I drew 7 and a few attacks and counterspells later, I'm in the Top 8. :D


Why not simply play turn 1 Show and Tell into Griselbrand?

[TheRandomGuy]

Why not simply play turn 1 Show and Tell into Griselbrand?

Well Game 1 he had a Blighsteel Colossus in his hand, which means he's on Forgemaster MUD. I didn't want to risk a blind SnT to Griselbrand against a Blightsteel Colossus or an impending Forgemaster setup.

[JPA]

Hi there! I'm a long time lurker here at The Source and started being active in Legacy since March 2014. I played Jund as my "return" deck from a long hiatus, then switched to "demons n' tentacles" aka Sneak Show last month. I had a 3-0 in my weekly using the deck for the first time before joining a big local legacy event the week after.
Here are my tournament reports on two events where I finished both at the Top 8 (also the first couple of major events that I played the deck :P). I apologize if it's gonna be a long read. Enjoy. :)

DISCLAIMER: Most of the round-by-round reports are from memory. This is my first time writing a report, so please spare me. :D

PART I

06/29/2014: Cerberus Legacy Open 8

Lands:
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 island
1 Mountain

Creatures:
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Intuition
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Misdirection

Sideboard:
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wipe Away
1 Pyroblast
1 Shattering Spree

Round 1: Esper Stoneblade w/ Deathrite Shaman (not DeathBlade, as per the deck's owner)

Game 1:
I went first and kept a hand with Probe, Lands, Show and Tell, Griselbrand, Force of Will, Ponder. I pondered to setup my next two turns and drew a Brainstorm. He went with Underground Sea and Deathrite Shaman. I probed him next turn to see if the coast is clear, and put Griselbrand into play via Show and Tell while he put another land in play. I drew 7 and win three turns later.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Force of Will -1 Spell Pierce -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Show And Tell
+3 blood moon +2 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away +2 Through the Breach

Game 2:
He goes first with Deathrite Shaman. I dig my deck for any protection to a second turn Liliana of the Veil but didn't find anything. Lucky for me, he didn't have a Liliana on his second turn. I kill his shaman with pyroclasm and attempted to cast Blood Moon but he countered it. I probed his hand and saw a Liliana and a Vendilion Clique. Lucky for me he got himself color screwed to not cast any of those threats (1). I dropped a sneak attack that turn and killed him with Griselbrand and Emrakul next turn.

1-0-0 (2-0)

Round 2: GW Maverick

Game 1:
He goes first with Fetch, Savannah, Noble Hierach. I went with the usual business spell openers, but then he played Thalia. He didn't have any wastelands so I risked playing my sol lands to have me cast expensive business spells (casting a 1U Ponder sucks T_T). He continues to build his board state with Dryad Arbor and a Sylvan Library, then two turns and a handful of beatings from Thalia and Arbor later, I managed to put Sneak Attack into play via Show and Tell, and he put a Knight of the Reliquary in play, then passed the turn. I have two red sources open and a Scalding Tarn then dropped Griselbrand, drew 7 and proceeded to the combat phase. I played Emrakul via Sneak Attack during the beginning of combat step, then he put Karakas into play via Knight of the Reliquary's activation. He bounced Emrakul during that step, I let it resolve and put Emrakul back into play by cracking Scalding Tarn for a Volcanic Island to put Emrakul into play again (we are still in the beginning of combat step). He calls a judge to ask if it's still legal, in which it is, since it is our play around Karakas anyway. The judge explains to him the rules and I proceed to annihilate him with Griselbrand and Emrakul that turn.

SB:
-1 Misdirection -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Show and Tell -1 Spell Pierce -3 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -1 Intuition
+2 Through the Breach +3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +2 Grafdigger's cage +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
I keep a hand of Ponder, 3 Lands, Pyroclasm, Show and Tell and a Spell Pierce. He mulligans to 6 and opens up with Noble Hierarch. I Pondered to Pyroclasm, Griselbrand, Fetch and drew the Pyroclasm. Next turn he plays a qasali pridemage and attacked me for 2. I killed both with Pyroclasm and passed the turn. He then pushed back by playing both Thalia and Mother of Runes and passed the turn. I kill both of them again with Pyroclasm. He plays a lone Dryad Arbor on his turn while I play a Griselbrand via Show and Tell on mine. Good thing he dropped a land and is on top deck mode. I lock him up with Blood Moon as he extends his hand.

2-0-0 (4-0)

Round 3: URW Patriot (He's also in the Top 8 too)

Game 1:
He goes first and plays Volcanic Island, Ponder, go (I have a feeling that this is going to be the mirror x_x). I played an open Island and passed the turn. He then cracked a fetch to a Tundra and played a Delver of Secrets. I played a fetchland and played ponder to set up my next turns, he then plays a Stoneforge Mystic searching for a Batterskull. I probe him next turn to check if the coast is clear, and cast Show and Tell dropping Emrakul. I attacked the following turn and we're on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal -2 Spell Pierce
+3 Blood Moon +3 Pyroclasm +1 Pyroblast +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
This game was a really close. He had me at 6 life due to delver beats but survived thanks to Pyroblast. Lucky for me he didn't have red mana to finish me off with Lightning Bolt. All he had was a wasteland and a Tundra and a lone Lightning Bolt in his hand after we went to a counter-war for my Show and Tell (As I had a Griselbrand in my hand). I played a Blood Moon to lock him out of blue mana (for Ponder and Brainstorm to dig for another Lightning Bolt). He then rips another Lightning Bolt from the top of his deck and kills me on the spot. (2)

No changes in the SB

Game 3:
I'll keep this short. He established his tempo with Delver and locked me out with Meddling Mage naming Show and Tell. I tried to fight back with Pyroclasm but ended up losing the counter war. I die a few turns later.

2-1-0 (5-2)

Round 4: UG Berserk Infect

Game 1:
I go first by playing Island and passing the turn. He goes first with a Tropical Island to a Glistener Elf. I probe him to drop Emrakul on the second turn as he puts an Inkmoth Nexus. I attack next turn and he doesn't recover from Emrakul's annihilating tentacles and went on to game 2.

SB:
-1 Intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Pyroclasm +1 Wipe Away

Game 2:
He starts with an Inkmoth Nexus. I did the deck's usual openers and he played a Blighted Agent. I endure his poisonous attacks with the agent and an animated Inkmoth Nexus and then drops a Glistener Elf. I kill his creatures with Pyroclasm and stabilized by countering pump spells targetting the Inkmoth Nexus. A few turns later, I play Sneak Attack and annihilate him with Emrakul, he takes 15 and concedes.

3-1-0 (7-2)

Round 5: MUD

Game 1:
I go first with Island, Ponder and Petal. He mulls to 5 and goes Ancient Tomb, Lightning Greaves. I then play a land and cast Show and Tell putting Emrakul into play while he puts a Blightsteel Colossus. He equipped Blightsteel Colossus with Lightning Greaves and attacked. I blocked with Emrakul and reduced to a mere 4/4. I attack next turn and he concedes.

SB:
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor -1 Misdirection -2 Show and Tell -1 Gitaxian Probe -2 Lotus Petal
+3 Blood Moon +1 Wipe Away +1 Shattering Spree +2 Through the Breach


Game 2:
I have a Ponder, Petal, Lands ( an Ancient Tomb, a volcanic island a fetchland), Show and Tell, Griselbrand as my starting had. He opens up with Ancient Tomb to Metalworker. I set up with fetchland to Volcanic Island then Ponder (which has a land, a Shattering Spree and another petal in it) I took Shattering Spree and played Lotus Petal then passed the turn. He then plays Grim Monolith to Trinisphere while I did nothing and just played a land. He then plays another Grim Monolith by tapping Metalworker revealing a Lodestone Golem and passed. I drew the Lotus Petal, played my Sol Land and Passed. An uncounterable Lodestone Golem comes into play thanks to a Cavern of Souls and the untapped Grim Monolith. I drew the petal, then cast Shattering Spree targetting the Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem using 2 volcanic islands and Ancient Tomb to pay for the spell with replicate(3). I play my Lotus Petal and cast Show and Tell to Griselbrand as he puts another Metalworker into Play. I drew 7 and a few attacks and counterspells later, I'm in the Top 8. :D

4-1-0 (9-2)

Round 6: ID to Top 8

4-1-1 (9-2)

***Playoff Rounds***

Quarterfinals: Burn

Game 1:
My opponent as higher seed went first as he beats me with Goblin Guide and burns me off to 8 life. He has a couple of cards in his hand land as I cast Show and Tell to an Emrakul as he drops a land. I attack and annihilate him and we move on to game two.

SB:
-1 intuition -1 Jace, the Mind Scultpor -1 force of will -1 gitaxian probe -2 lotus petal
+1 shattering spree +1 wipe away +3 pyroclasm

Game 2:
He went first with Goblin Guide, then follows up with Grim Lavamancer, then Vexing Shusher. I killed them all with Pyroclasm. After he passes his turn, I cast a Sneak Attack and pass the turn back to him. He tries to burn me but my counters save me, I drop Griselbrand and Emrakul and attack for the win.

(11-2)

Sadly, I got beaten by Miracles on the semi-finals with a really close match. He has all the answers and just beats me up with Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster Mage. Sensei's Divining Top is just bonkers. I scooped up my cards, wished my opponent the best of luck and thanked him for the experience (as he is one of the veteran players here). Good for him that he won the tournament. :P

(1)Well he could have cast Liliana on his last turn to have me discard since I only have like three cards in hand, but he thought that I didn't have anything and opted to wait instead. I got lucky that I drew an Emrakul from my Griseldraw. He wasn't able to get another blue source to cast his vendilion clique. :(
(2) Was playing Blood Moon in this situation right here? I didn't have anything and all I needed was to lock him out of blue mana for him not to ponder or brainstorm for me to have enough time to dig for a Sneak Attack or Show and Tell to turn the tide.
(3) I dunno if what I did was legal, but I confirmed from my opponent himself that the replicate cost will still be the same even if Trinisphere is in play. He also clarified that it'll still cost me 3 mana to cast Shattering Spree even if it's taxed by Lodestone Golem as long as Trinisphere is in play. Clear me up on this guys. :)

*I know, I board in more than what is necessary for every matchup. If you have any sideboarding tips or a sideboard configuration, that would be much helpful!

Stay tuned for Part II guys!

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!

Congrats on your finish and thanks for the write-up.

I like your sideboarding for the most part, except:

vs Deathblade: I would not board out any Spell Pierces against them, it hits discard, counters and Planeswalkers, which are the things you care about (except Meddling Mage / Vendilion Clique). Pyroblast is also pretty good (Meddling Mage, V-Clique, Jace, FoW).

vs Maverick you can definitely board out all of the Spell Pierces and should bring in Shattering Spree (Needle/Revoker, other hate-cards, random equipment). I would leave in some Probes and the Petals.

vs MUD: I'm not so sure about that matchup, Blood Moon only seems worth against the Post-version to me.. Spell Pierce doesn't do much in my opinion either. I would probably board out Spell Pierces, leave the Moons in the sideboard and not board out any Petals/Probes/Show and Tells.


I think the replacment for blood moon is very dpenendent on your meta. I think common alternatives in boards (as in cards I rarely see along side blood moon) include Leyline and Defense grid.

Leyline does nothing against Tempo decks or Karakas-strategies without heavy discard. The replacement for Blood Moon against Tempo is Defense Grid, which is even better than BM against Tempo, but far less versatile. The replacement against Karakas-decks could be Needle, I guess..

However, I wouldn't cut the 3 Blood Moons from the sideboard at the moment.


On another note, all 4 Sneak&Show lists in the Top 32 of SCGKC play 1 Mountain. It's good to see that negative trend started by Todd come to an end. I couldn't ever imagine cutting the Mountain.

[TheRandomGuy]

These are what I would board out.

Against Burn I would cut the Gitaxian Probes and not the Petals.

Against Maverick I wouldn't cut the Petals for Grafdigger's.

Against Deathblade I would cut all Petals as the game will become an attrition war.



Congrats on your finish and thanks for the write-up.

I like your sideboarding for the most part, except:

vs Deathblade: I would not board out any Spell Pierces against them, it hits discard, counters and Planeswalkers, which are the things you care about (except Meddling Mage / Vendilion Clique). Pyroblast is also pretty good (Meddling Mage, V-Clique, Jace, FoW).

vs Maverick you can definitely board out all of the Spell Pierces and should bring in Shattering Spree (Needle/Revoker, other hate-cards, random equipment). I would leave in some Probes and the Petals.

vs MUD: I'm not so sure about that matchup, Blood Moon only seems worth against the Post-version to me.. Spell Pierce doesn't do much in my opinion either. I would probably board out Spell Pierces, leave the Moons in the sideboard and not board out any Petals/Probes/Show and Tells.

Thanks for the input guys! Definitely gonna put those in mind the next time I'll play the deck. As for Part II, I'll work on it this week. :cool:

[Hank Zhong]

Been testing this deck alot lately, going to a big tourney this weekend, but haven't settled on a SB yet. There are so many sideboard options available, and sideboard space is really tight. For a large tournament representative of the DTB metagame, which 15 cards would provide the best coverage?

Here are the candidates:

3 pyroclasm - elves, D&T, UWR delver, BUG delver, deathblade
3 pyroblast/REB - All blue decks =)
3 blood moon - All delver variants and deathblade/shardless bug
2 defense grid - UWR delver, RUG delver, miracles
2 through the breach - mirror, reanimator, D&T?
2 grafdigger's cage - reanimator, dredge, elves
2 vendilion cliques - All fast combo decks, and probably all blue decks in general. Seems great during post board games, where game play slows down, and sometimes you just beat with the clique 6-7 times ftw, I can even see mainboarding it instead of the 2 jaces in some lists because it complements the S&T plan so perfectly
2 divert - shardless bug and bug delver
2 swan song - all fast combo decks and miracles
1 flusterstorm - all fast combo decks and probably all blue decks
1 pithing needle - D&T, miracles, bug delver, shardless
1 shattering spree / vandalblast - D&T mostly + another out to random permanent hate like chalice, bridge and needle from other decks
1 wipe away / echoing truth - D&T, miracles, mirror, reanimator, any deck packing random permanent hate

25 cards total, need to pick 15, any thoughts/suggestions?

[i_b_TRUE]

Been testing this deck alot lately, going to a big tourney this weekend, but haven't settled on a SB yet. There are so many sideboard options available, and sideboard space is really tight. For a large tournament representative of the DTB metagame, which 15 cards would provide the best coverage?

Here are the candidates:

3 pyroclasm - elves, D&T, UWR delver, BUG delver, deathblade
3 pyroblast/REB - All blue decks =)
3 blood moon - All delver variants and deathblade/shardless bug
2 defense grid - UWR delver, RUG delver, miracles
2 through the breach - mirror, reanimator, D&T?
2 grafdigger's cage - reanimator, dredge, elves
2 vendilion cliques - All fast combo decks, and probably all blue decks in general. Seems great during post board games, where game play slows down, and sometimes you just beat with the clique 6-7 times ftw, I can even see mainboarding it instead of the 2 jaces in some lists because it complements the S&T plan so perfectly
2 divert - shardless bug and bug delver
2 swan song - all fast combo decks and miracles
1 flusterstorm - all fast combo decks and probably all blue decks
1 pithing needle - D&T, miracles, bug delver, shardless
1 shattering spree / vandalblast - D&T mostly + another out to random permanent hate like chalice, bridge and needle from other decks
1 wipe away / echoing truth - D&T, miracles, mirror, reanimator, any deck packing random permanent hate

25 cards total, need to pick 15, any thoughts/suggestions?


Here is my SB at the moment... I REALLY want to squeeze in Defense Grid but I cant make room :frown:

1 Boseiju
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shattering Spree
2 Swan Song
1 Echoing Truth
3 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon
2 TTB

[Unassigned]

Been testing this deck alot lately, going to a big tourney this weekend, but haven't settled on a SB yet. There are so many sideboard options available, and sideboard space is really tight. For a large tournament representative of the DTB metagame, which 15 cards would provide the best coverage?

Here are the candidates:

3 pyroclasm - elves, D&T, UWR delver, BUG delver, deathblade
3 pyroblast/REB - All blue decks =)
3 blood moon - All delver variants and deathblade/shardless bug
2 defense grid - UWR delver, RUG delver, miracles
2 through the breach - mirror, reanimator, D&T?
2 grafdigger's cage - reanimator, dredge, elves
2 vendilion cliques - All fast combo decks, and probably all blue decks in general. Seems great during post board games, where game play slows down, and sometimes you just beat with the clique 6-7 times ftw, I can even see mainboarding it instead of the 2 jaces in some lists because it complements the S&T plan so perfectly
2 divert - shardless bug and bug delver
2 swan song - all fast combo decks and miracles
1 flusterstorm - all fast combo decks and probably all blue decks
1 pithing needle - D&T, miracles, bug delver, shardless
1 shattering spree / vandalblast - D&T mostly + another out to random permanent hate like chalice, bridge and needle from other decks
1 wipe away / echoing truth - D&T, miracles, mirror, reanimator, any deck packing random permanent hate

25 cards total, need to pick 15, any thoughts/suggestions?

Given your options, I would go with the following:

3 Pyroclasm
2 Blood Moon
2 Through The Breach
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pyroblast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Echoing Truth
1 Shattering Spree

What is your main looking like? That might change some decisions.

[Hank Zhong]

Given your options, I would go with the following:

3 Pyroclasm
2 Blood Moon
2 Through The Breach
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pyroblast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Echoing Truth
1 Shattering Spree

What is your main looking like? That might change some decisions.

the stock 51 + 4 spell pierce, 4 probe, and 1 intuition

4 pierces have been great, though I can definitely see having the 3-1 pierce/misdirection split. Intuition has been good to excellent every time i drew it. there were multiple games where I used it to assemble to combo, other times, I use it to grab a sol land or fow for protection, yes, demonic tutor is still good at 3 mana.


the probes are the only slots I'm not sure on. I personally love to have information when playing a combo deck and so I have been happy with 4, but if the plan is to not lose to D&T, then i can see jamming 2-3 fire/ice instead. Preordain is another candidate to replace some number of probes with. They seems a bit unnecessary, but it never hurts to be more consistent. Probe vs preordain is essentially speed vs consistency.

[nodahero]

If you wanted to hedge your bets a bit and be better against DnT and Miracles how would you adjust the main and or side?

[Hank Zhong]

If you wanted to hedge your bets a bit and be better against DnT and Miracles how would you adjust the main and or side?

i would play 2 fire/ice in the MD over 2 probes or 1 probe and 1 intuition. For the SB, I would want at least 3 pyroclasms and 2 pithing needles.

I can't see losing to D&T too often if you have 2 fire/ice, 3 pyro and 2 needles, which gets vial and karakas. You basically become a control deck with a combo kill against them post board.

For miracles, in addition to the needles which are great against them, i would play 2-3 REBs and a boseiju against them. One of the ways miracles can win quickly is via clique beatdown and REB takes care of that easily. I also like to counter their brainstorms with REB because they often have dead miracle cards in their hand they need to put back.

[JPA]

If you wanted to hedge your bets a bit and be better against DnT and Miracles how would you adjust the main and or side?

In addition to what Hank Zhong wrote, Sulfur Elemental is also a very strong SB card against D&T and definitely useful as a beater against Miracles, since they won't have any spot-removal post-board (except maybe Council's Judgement, and you can be happy when they waste that on the Elemental).

Another possibility is adding Progenitus to the sideboard, because it gets around all of the permanent-based hate both D&T and Miracles have to offer.

[nodahero]

Awesome. Thanks for the input.

Now I just need to decide if I am playing this or if I am going to play 12 post this weekend.

[JPA]

Awesome. Thanks for the input.

Now I just need to decide if I am playing this or if I am going to play 12 post this weekend.

That depends on whether you want to win whatever tournament you play this weekend. If it's a small local tourney, 12-post might be more fun, regardless of success. If it's an SCG Open, you should probably play the better deck. :tongue: :tongue:

[The Duressed]

It also depends on what you expect to play against. If all you want to do is smash miracles, definitely play post.

[nodahero]

The meta I faced last time was fairly open until the top 8 when it was like 3 BUG lists and 3 Miracles lists plus a Tezz list and me with Sneak and Show.

If my priamrily focus is to beat Miracles and BUG which seems better?

[The Duressed]

I'd probably at Sneak Show. If these guys are to be believed (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi), BUG is a rough matchup for Post because of wasteland and Liliana. I also think that Sneak Show is better against the other decks in the format by a healthy margin, which certainly isn't a trivial factor.

[GoblinZ]

I got 2nd in a 23-players tournament today, actually split the prize with friend in the final. Here is what I met today:

Round one 2-0 vs ANT
Round two 2-0 vs BUG Delver
Round three 0-2 vs Elves ( lose to worldsplne wurm game 2)
Round four 2-0 vs ANT
Round fine 2-0 vs UW Blade Control

Top 8 2-0 vs BUG Delver

Top 4 2-0 vs Omnitel

Final 0-2 vs Foodchain Combo (really bad draw in both game...)

Game one against omnitel is really crazy...I show into Griselbrand on turn three, he let it resolve and put omniscience into play after some considerations. On his turn, he ponder first and tried to reslove Enter the Infinite. I fow, he fow back. I cast misdirection, he fow. I activated Griselbrand and fow, he fow back! I was crazy and draw extra seven and I found two fow in a row...I then fow again, he cast Pact of Negation, I cast my last fow to counter his Enter the Infinite, he scooped...

Griselbrand is really crazy...

[dcosiem]

I got 2nd in a 23-players tournament today, actually split the prize with friend in the final. Here is what I met today:

Round one 2-0 vs ANT
Round two 2-0 vs BUG Delver
Round three 0-2 vs Elves ( lose to worldsplne wurm game 2)
Round four 2-0 vs ANT
Round fine 2-0 vs UW Blade Control

Top 8 2-0 vs BUG Delver

Top 4 2-0 vs Omnitel

Final 0-2 vs Foodchain Combo (really bad draw in both game...)

Game one against omnitel is really crazy...I show into Griselbrand on turn three, he let it resolve and put omniscience into play after some considerations. On his turn, he ponder first and tried to reslove Enter the Infinite. I fow, he fow back. I cast misdirection, he fow. I activated Griselbrand and fow, he fow back! I was crazy and draw extra seven and I found two fow in a row...I then fow again, he cast Pact of Negation, I cast my last fow to counter his Enter the Infinite, he scooped...

Griselbrand is really crazy...

Youre extremely lucky that it turned out like this.

[GoblinZ]

Youre extremely lucky that it turned out like this.

Yeah, definitely quite lucky, I did not expect he had so many counters... Game two I board 2 show and tell out anyway..

[dcosiem]

Yeah, definitely quite lucky, I did not expect he had so many counters... Game two I board 2 show and tell out anyway..

The one great thing about this deck because it's so ridiculously powerful that even if you fuck up, this deck will forgive you. : P This is good for beginners at least right away.

What's everyone's sideboard look's like? I need some suggestions. I need 2 cards. I have:

2 Grafdiggers's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Through the Breach
1 Wipe Away
2 Pyroclasm

[Shuvel]

I honestly would run a 3rd pyroclasm. You really want to hit that in your DnT match up. You could also run a Boseiju.

[somethingdotdotdot]

I've had this deck for a while, but never really played it since I usually prefer playing control. However, I've decided to dust it off to play at a few weeklies every now and then. The main problem I'm having is that the local meta is basically infested with dnt--literally 1/2 the players that show up are usually piloting that deck. I know if I wanted to win more consistently, I should switch to a different deck, but I personally prefer to just try and construct a board to play through them (largely without super specific hate cards like sulfur elemental or anarchy).

This is where I'm currently at

Creatures (8)
4x Emrakul
4x Griselbrand

Spells (29)
2x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Fire//Ice
4x Force of Will
2x Flusterstorm
2x Spell Pierce
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Show and Tell
4x Sneak Attack

Mana (23)
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Island
1x Mountain
3x Volcanic Island
2x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
3x Lotus Petal

SB:
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Pithing Needle
2x Blood Moon
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Through the Breach
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Wipe Away

The main questions I have are:
1) Have any of you tried the 20 land, 3 petal configuration rather than 19 land, 4 petal? How do you feel about it--is the added consistency of land worth the loss of explosive power
2) Have cages been enough to deal with elves/dredge/reanimator? They seem like a very niche card and the spaces could be used for something more worthwhile.
3) How do you board vs dnt? Given my heavy removal suite, I've been doing: -2 Sneak Attack, -4 Fow, -2 Spell Pierce, -2 Flusterstorm; +2 TTB, +2 Blood Moon, +3 Pithing Needle, +3 Engineered Explosives. EE has performed far better than clasm vs dnt in my experience--it gets to dodge their active mom, which pyroclasm has a lot of trouble dealing with.

[Juice11]

The one great thing about this deck because it's so ridiculously powerful that even if you fuck up, this deck will forgive you. : P This is good for beginners at least right away.

What's everyone's sideboard look's like? I need some suggestions. I need 2 cards. I have:

2 Grafdiggers's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Through the Breach
1 Wipe Away
2 Pyroclasm

I completely agree. It just topdecks so well. I've never played another deck that felt as broken as this one. I wish I could find a way to make this into a vintage deck. As far as more cards for your sideboard, I would look at a 3rd cage or 3rd blood moon. I also like shattering spree for artifact hate.

[GoblinZ]

The main questions I have are:
1) Have any of you tried the 20 land, 3 petal configuration rather than 19 land, 4 petal? How do you feel about it--is the added consistency of land worth the loss of explosive power
2) Have cages been enough to deal with elves/dredge/reanimator? They seem like a very niche card and the spaces could be used for something more worthwhile.
3) How do you board vs dnt? Given my heavy removal suite, I've been doing: -2 Sneak Attack, -4 Fow, -2 Spell Pierce, -2 Flusterstorm; +2 TTB, +2 Blood Moon, +3 Pithing Needle, +3 Engineered Explosives. EE has performed far better than clasm vs dnt in my experience--it gets to dodge their active mom, which pyroclasm has a lot of trouble dealing with.

1. If your meta is infested with DNT, petal is good against Thalia.
3. I don't like cutting sneak attack here. I personally run 1 Elesh Norn and 1 Massacre Wurm, and board out two griselbrand against DNT.


@Juice11 I think this deck already has a vintage version, see BOM list.

[dcosiem]

the stock 51 + 4 spell pierce, 4 probe, and 1 intuition

4 pierces have been great, though I can definitely see having the 3-1 pierce/misdirection split. Intuition has been good to excellent every time i drew it. there were multiple games where I used it to assemble to combo, other times, I use it to grab a sol land or fow for protection, yes, demonic tutor is still good at 3 mana.


the probes are the only slots I'm not sure on. I personally love to have information when playing a combo deck and so I have been happy with 4, but if the plan is to not lose to D&T, then i can see jamming 2-3 fire/ice instead. Preordain is another candidate to replace some number of probes with. They seems a bit unnecessary, but it never hurts to be more consistent. Probe vs preordain is essentially speed vs consistency.

Holy shit. Im not the only one who has these same line of thoughts. I play the 3 spell pierce/1 misdirect instead of 4. The misdiect has one me a good game against miracles. I love intuition so much that i play 2 because 1 is not enough to ever draw it. Ive tested preordain over probe. It definitly makes the deck more consistent. But in same cases information makes the game of magic a lot easier for you. With all these ideas of firce and ice. I got a new idea. What if we sided board grove and punishing fire combo? Sweet huh?

[JPA]

I got a new idea. What if we sided board grove and punishing fire combo? Sweet huh?

No.

This has been discussed in this thread before and we came to the conclusion that there is no point in playing slow, clunky spot-removal over sweepers like Pyroclasm.

[Juice11]

1. If your meta is infested with DNT, petal is good against Thalia.
3. I don't like cutting sneak attack here. I personally run 1 Elesh Norn and 1 Massacre Wurm, and board out two griselbrand against DNT.


@Juice11 I think this deck already has a vintage version, see BOM list.


I actually just picked up a massacre wurm because there are a few D&T players by me. I looked for the BOM list, but couldn't find it. Do you have a link by any chance?

[GoblinZ]

I actually just picked up a massacre wurm because there are a few D&T players by me. I looked for the BOM list, but couldn't find it. Do you have a link by any chance?

The wurm is awesome against DnT, I play Elesh Norn mainly because I don't have a second wurm. With this kind of SB, you don't need cut SNT against DnT any more.

All the vintage sneakshow lists are categorized into Rogue on Tc Decks, including the bom list last year. I feel really sorry I can't give you the link now because of my f***ing internet.....

[dcosiem]

No.

This has been discussed in this thread before and we came to the conclusion that there is no point in playing slow, clunky spot-removal over sweepers like Pyroclasm.

Really? I guess I ain't reading all of the threads. Thanks for the notice.

[mulder]

What are the reasons to use Petal instead of Simian Spirit Grunt?
Grunt is uncounterable, provides a 2/2 body when needed and can give you a surprise answer to Daze or Spell Pierce. The only disadvantage i see is that it only gives red mana... .

[menace13]

What are the reasons to use Petal instead of Simian Spirit Grunt?
Grunt is uncounterable, provides a 2/2 body when needed and can give you a surprise answer to Daze or Spell Pierce. The only disadvantage i see is that it only gives red mana... .
Mainly to drop early Show and Tell and keep hands with Sol Land, Petal, and Cantrips. I played SSG in few dailies on mtgo when Emidln refused to return Petals he borrowed from me. I like having the flexibility of blue mana over Surprise Daze payments, sneaky Sneak Attack activation, or surprise REBS.

[Unassigned]

Had a little 17-player tournament at my LGS last night and ended up taking 4th due to some poor tiebreakers.

Ran with the following list:

3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

4 Lotus Petal

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show & Tell

4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul
1 Ashen Rider

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm

2 Jace TMS

1 Fire / Ice
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Sideboard:

2 Through the Breach
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ashen Rider
1 V Clique
1 Pyroblast
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Fluserstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shattering Spree


Round 1: Ian w/ Merfolk

Win G1 quickly, but games 2 & 3 I draw no counters. Game 3 he Turn 1's a Chalice of the Void (his only one in the Sideboard) on 0... I smile and say OK. I then proceed to draw 3 Lotus Petals in a row with no Brainstorm to go with my fetchland. M'k...

Round 2: Brendan w/ UWR Delver

Game 1 I mull to 3, having no less than 3 monsters in hand every mulligan. I keep a hand of Island, Force of Will and Ponder. Needless to say, I lose this game. Game 2 I get down an early Blood Moon and protect a Sneak Attack to win. Game 3 was a very close match that I should have lost. I keep his board empty with Pyroclasms, but he navigates them effectively by not overcommitting. I'm at 4 life, staring down his board of 5 lands, flipped Delver, and a True Name with Sword of Feast & Famine equipped. He has no cards in hand. I have Emrakul and Sneak Attack in hand and draw Brainstorm with four land and a Lotus Petal in play. I Brainstorm to see Griselbrand and two Show & Tell. Since my only way I can possibly win is to attack with Gris this turn to stay above lethal, I put one Show back with Emrakul on top. Show Sneak into play and sneak Gris in, gaining 7 with no cards in hand. He draws and swings in with both guys and passes. I draw, activate Sneak and swing in with Emrakul when he realizes he forgot to hold the flipped Delver back.

Round 3: Nick w/ Sneak & Show

I get Game 1 with Sneak Attack backed by Flusterstorms and a pair of Force's. Game 2 we cantrip away, but I can't find any of my creatures. I counter 2 Sneak Attacks in a row, but he has a third and I lose the resulting counter war. Game 3 I was able to draw into multiple counterspells while he was locked on three land. I power a Sneak Attack into play and win with Emrakul while he put himself to 15 with Gitxian Probe, fetchlands and Forces.

Round 4: Ian w/ Belcher

I get Game 1 with a turn 2 Griselbrand, knowing that I have enough countermagic to stop his mana spells if he puts a Charbelcher into play. He drops LED into play and scoops after two attacks. Game 2 I keep another Turn 2 Gris hand and he plays a turn 1 Xantid Swarm. My countermagic is nullified and he had just enough mana to cast and activate Charbelcher. Game 3 I have a counter-heavy hand and bide my time. I stop his attempts to go off with Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce until I draw Sneak Attack for my Griselbrand into Emrakul and win.

Round 5: Adam w/ BG Pox

Game 1 is a bit of a grind because while scouting after matches, I noticed that he never had a Wasteland in hand or in play. Ever. So I made the assumption that he didn't play/own them. I was wrong and he Loam locks me and even has some weird Urborg/Spreading Algae shenanigans. Either way, my deck forgives me and allows me to eventually get a Sneak Attack into play thanks to Lotus Petal. I bid my time and wait for a fetchland or other source of red mana for my Emrakul/Griselbrand in hand. I get it and we go on to Game 2. I keep a land heavy land and know he's boarding into heavy discard, so I keep a 5 land, Force and Griselbrand hand. Turn 1 Inquisition of Koz bricks and we play land-go for several turns. He hits a few of my lands and then lays a Chains of Mephistopheles into play. This slows me down a lot and he eventually finds a Crop Rotation for a Dark Depths/Thespian Stage win. Game 3, I lay down a Turn 2 Blood Moon and he plays no basics. We play Draw/Go for two turns and I find my Sneak Attack for the win.


Most of my sideboard was not utilized, as I wasn't paired up against High Tide, 12 Post, ANT or the Dredge decks that were running around. I wasn't impressed with my addition of V Clique in the sideboard either. I think I would have been happier with that slot being either a Boseiju or another Pyroclasm. I won't be running this configuration in Somerset next weekend, because this is mainly tuned for my local meta. Hope to see some of you in New Jersey!

[Lawyer]

Hey, I run the version of sneak and show found here,


http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7851&d=245217&f=LE

I'm having a lot of trouble playing against merfolk. They get to being 5/5s very quickly and there is enough counter magic to disrupt my deck. How should I play against this deck. Should I remove swan song from my sb for red elemental blast?

Thanks for your time



Thanks rxavage. The primer is still in progress, more sections like "How to identify you play against X" (similar to what apple713 did) and "Tips and Tricks" will be added soon.


@apple713: I appreciate your work, but there are a few mistakes in what you wrote; you also left out UWR Delver completely. Here are some corrections:



I will add my own version to the matchup-section in the primer soon.

[JPA]

Thanks for the report, Adam, and good luck in Somerset!


Hey, I run the version of sneak and show found here,


http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7851&d=245217&f=LE

I'm having a lot of trouble playing against merfolk. They get to being 5/5s very quickly and there is enough counter magic to disrupt my deck. How should I play against this deck. Should I remove swan song from my sb for red elemental blast?

Thanks for your time

As I wrote in this thread before, I don't like the Todd/CVM-list (which Boswell copied). Merfolk is a tough matchup, no doubt. If you manage to go off on T2-4 with Daze-backup, it's usually enough, but they do have some pretty explosive starts, often paired with counters.

REB is a pretty strong sideboard-card in general, I wouldn't go without at least one or two. If you want to hate out Merfolk specifically (like Sulfur Elemental vs Death and Taxes), you could swap the Pyroclasms for Volcanic Fallouts. Hate-fatties like Massacre Wurm are another option.

[somethingdotdotdot]

Given that all of KTK is now spoiled, have any of you given any thought to adding Dig Through Time into the deck as a 1-2 of? I think the card is very similar to intuition, which certain versions still run as a 1-2 of. I wanted to compare the two a bit and see if any of you guys think dtt is better than intuition:

Pros of intuition
- as long as there are 3 copies of a card left, it's a 3 mana instant demonic tutor
- castable t2 with island/sol land
Cons of intuition
- cant find a card if less than 3 are in the deck (usually relevant when goin off the second time)
- weak to surgical extraction postboard
- significantly lowers the odds of drawing the tutored card afterwards (relevant if the card you intuition for gets countered)

Pros of dtt
- results in card advantage--which means you could potentially get both enabler+fattie
- wont reduce the chance of w/e you get
- can shrink opposing goyfs
- utilizes a resource that is otherwise unused in this deck (gy)
Cons of dtt
- wont necessarily find the card you want
- probably wont be cast until turn 3-4

So what do you guys think?

[Captain Hammer]

Given that all of KTK is now spoiled, have any of you given any thought to adding Dig Through Time into the deck as a 1-2 of? I think the card is very similar to intuition, which certain versions still run as a 1-2 of. I wanted to compare the two a bit and see if any of you guys think dtt is better than intuition:

Pros of intuition
- as long as there are 3 copies of a card left, it's a 3 mana instant demonic tutor
- castable t2 with island/sol land
Cons of intuition
- cant find a card if less than 3 are in the deck (usually relevant when goin off the second time)
- weak to surgical extraction postboard
- significantly lowers the odds of drawing the tutored card afterwards (relevant if the card you intuition for gets countered)

Pros of dtt
- results in card advantage--which means you could potentially get both enabler+fattie
- wont reduce the chance of w/e you get
- can shrink opposing goyfs
- utilizes a resource that is otherwise unused in this deck (gy)
Cons of dtt
- wont necessarily find the card you want
- probably wont be cast until turn 3-4

So what do you guys think?

Dig through time gets you two cards that you want, intuition only gets one. That's very relevant since you want to combo with free counter protection and play 8 threats, 8 enablers and 8 free counters so the odds of getting both missing pieces is very good when you dig.

[JPA]

I like Intuition a bit more, at least in theory (haven't tested with Dig). Generally, you want to spend Turn 3/4/5 comboing off, not cantripping. I feel it's really slow and cheaper cantrips might just be more effective overall.

[apple713]

dig would at best be a 1-2 of in sneak and show. It would replace the intuition spot but that being said it doesn't actually do anything better than intuition. It is likely to end up costing the same as intuition and achieve the same goal of assembling your combo. Anyone who's played with the deck knows that 7 cards may not be enough sometimes. For such a large investment you want more solidified results. Also note that many versions have cut intuition entirely from the deck for more reliable means of searching like SDT.

Lets consider optimal situations where you can cast this card quickly
T1 fetch cantrip (2 cards in grave)
T2 Fetch cantrip cantrip (5 cards in grave)
T3 fetch spell pierce (7 cards in grave) DTT eot

so maybe on T3 after fetchalnds and cantrips its possible. I think it's likely to have an average of T4 in our deck.

Intuition is T2 possible and gets exactly what you need. Very rarely will you keep an opening hand where you do not have any combo pieces in hand.


just my 2 cents...

[catmint]

Dis is much slower (avg turn to cast) as intution and not as powerful in assembling the combo fast. Even intution is slow sometimes, but has enough power to be a solid 2 of in the maindeck as it can bait counters EOT and give you exactly what you need. Imagine you dig into a cantrips and need to spend another turn to find what you actually want. My verdict: way to slow for maindeck but people will try it out because it is such a cool effect.

Only relevant matchup where it is better than intuition is miracles, but without thinking about too much I can't imagine having Dig in the sideboard over the powerful hate cards sneak can play.

Dig might be better in the monoblue dreamhalls deck where card advantage matters more and you care much less about the board position/life total (speed) since you kill in the turn you go off. Without being an expert in this deck I think it plays more cantrips and could cut some preordains for that. Maybe it gets lejay to stop playing with a single leyline in the maindeck. :tongue:

[Unassigned]

Given that all of KTK is now spoiled, have any of you given any thought to adding Dig Through Time into the deck as a 1-2 of? I think the card is very similar to intuition, which certain versions still run as a 1-2 of. I wanted to compare the two a bit and see if any of you guys think dtt is better than intuition:

Pros of intuition
- as long as there are 3 copies of a card left, it's a 3 mana instant demonic tutor
- castable t2 with island/sol land
Cons of intuition
- cant find a card if less than 3 are in the deck (usually relevant when goin off the second time)
- weak to surgical extraction postboard
- significantly lowers the odds of drawing the tutored card afterwards (relevant if the card you intuition for gets countered)

Pros of dtt
- results in card advantage--which means you could potentially get both enabler+fattie
- wont reduce the chance of w/e you get
- can shrink opposing goyfs
- utilizes a resource that is otherwise unused in this deck (gy)
Cons of dtt
- wont necessarily find the card you want
- probably wont be cast until turn 3-4

So what do you guys think?

I don't like either of these cards in Sneak & Show. Treasure Cruise perhaps has a place in Omni and/or Dredge, but I can see too many instances where it's a dead card in your hand.

As for Dig Through Time, I don't like the idea of depending on blind luck to hit your combo pieces. Think of when we've missed when drawing 7 with Griselbrand? I can see that easily happening here. Intuition is cheaper, more direct, gets you exactly what you want and just overall wins out over DTT.

[dcosiem]

Anyone who replaces Intuition for Dig Through Time is an idiot. Intuition get's you want you want instantly oppose to the latter card. We are playing a combo deck that requires 2 cards to win. It's not storm where we're fishing for a set of cards to win that will number out more than 3 usually. Sneak and Show is just an all-out powerful deck when it runs well. You can luck out easily and win matches 10 minutes into your round. Tell me you haven't done that before? :cool:

[J-Funk]

I think everyone is missing a really important aspect of Dig Through time: That it gets two cards instead of one. Being able to pick up a combo piece AND a piece of protection off of the same card is incredible. Worst comes to worst you at least pick up some more cantrips and filter away some unneeded lands or spells.

If we fail to combo off the first time we attempt, and you all know how that feels, Dig Through Time is the BEST way to refuel to go off again. Pick up a combo piece+cantrip, post board silver bullet plus protection spell, two copies of combo piece, the results are varied and valuable.

This is not comparable to drawing seven of griseldaddy since we're always looking or something very specific off him, usually either petal or FoW. Dig gets you options, it opens up lines, it gets you back into the game. I will be testing two or three of them in my deck.

Anyway, I just took third in a 30 man top-8 event yesterday, pre DDT changes with this list:


4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
1 Fire // Ice
1 Intuition
4 Force of Will
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
3 Spell Pierce
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island

1 Ashen Rider
2 Blood Moon
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Divert
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shattering Spree
1 Fire // Ice


Only losses were to Bant Maverick in the first round (Counterspells, Teeg, Karakas was an issue) and Miracles in the semifinals. The loss to miracles was brutal:
I have three show and tells, an emrakul, and a jace in hand. Three land in play
1. I play show and tell, we fight over it, he uses up all his countermagic to counter it.
2. He passes
3. I play show and tell, I put in Emrakul, he puts in Venser for the bounce.
4. Attack with Venser, pass
5. I play my third Show and Tell, put in emrakul.
6. He untaps, plays Jace, bounces.
7. I draw land, play Jace, he pyroblasts it.
8. I draw Sneak attack, forced to tap out to try to resolve it.
9. He wear//tear 's it.

Totally brutal, I thought I had it locked up. If I had Griselbrand instead of Emrakul in hand we would have gotten there. Alternatively, a fifth land would have let me get one Emrakul hit in at least. Rough beats.

I still contend that this is a top deck in the format, and I'm not sure why people have been shying away from it. The only changes I will be making is probably removing the Diverts from the sideboard. when they are good, they are good, but I don't think they are relevant enough. Not sure what I will be replacing them with yet, maybe Swan Songs or Boseiju's

Looking forward to testing Dig Through Time in the future.

[JPA]

Congrats on your result, Jeremy! Miracles is a close matchup and if neither player gets the nut-draw it gets even closer and grindier.

I will definitely test Dig through Time, because I find it hard to evaluate its power without actually playing it.

Gus Schade made Top 8 of SCG Indy with a new take on the list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=73450

I messaged him on Facebook and am curious to hear his thought process behind the list and how it performed.

[Lans89]

I played 5 games with my Miracles vs Sneaky Show playing 2x Dig, and it was awesome! I lost 1-4 and in 3 games Dig found the winconditions or the FoW + blue card. It isn't even hard to cast both if you find them! But when playing Sneaky Show I would still be worried with all those Needles in peoples sideboards (to fight Miracles lately)...

[klaus]

I think everyone is missing a really important aspect of Dig Through time: That it gets two cards instead of one. Being able to pick up a combo piece AND a piece of protection off of the same card is incredible. Worst comes to worst you at least pick up some more cantrips and filter away some unneeded lands or spells.

This.

[klaus]

I think everyone is missing a really important aspect of Dig Through time: That it gets two cards instead of one. Being able to pick up a combo piece AND a piece of protection off of the same card is incredible. Worst comes to worst you at least pick up some more cantrips and filter away some unneeded lands or spells.
This.

Also: SNT ain't no all-in Combo.dec such as Belcher. VS Control.decs being able to reinforce efficiently is vital.

[Unassigned]

Congrats on your result, Jeremy! Miracles is a close matchup and if neither player gets the nut-draw it gets even closer and grindier.

I will definitely test Dig through Time, because I find it hard to evaluate its power without actually playing it.

Gus Schade made Top 8 of SCG Indy with a new take on the list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=73450

I messaged him on Facebook and am curious to hear his thought process behind the list and how it performed.

I've actually been waiting to talk to him as well. I was planning on playing Miracles in Columbus and GPNJ, but if the Dig's impress me enough in testing, I might stick to my Legacy roots. I also noticed his list included the two main deck Blood Moon's, a Misdirection and cut the Ponder count to two. Can't argue with the results, and I'm sure the Blood Moon G1 caught a lot of people off guard.

[AnziD]

I've actually been waiting to talk to him as well. I was planning on playing Miracles in Columbus and GPNJ, but if the Dig's impress me enough in testing, I might stick to my Legacy roots. I also noticed his list included the two main deck Blood Moon's, a Misdirection and cut the Ponder count to two. Can't argue with the results, and I'm sure the Blood Moon G1 caught a lot of people off guard.

Seems like cutting the Ponders is not right. Anyways, last night I took this deck to locals for the first time in a few months so I could test out DTT. I wanted to see how good the card was and started with 4 copies. I went 3-1 losing to BUG Delver and beating Elves, a rogue deck, and High Tide (though I should chalk HT up to a loss because he fizzled after casting 4 Time Spirals, which... doesn't seem likely). Here are some observations:

1. Confirmed: This card is very powerful in this deck. As everyone has theorized, finding the extra combo piece/FOW/whatever was awesome.
2. The card can whiff. Of the 5 or so times I cast it last night I did not find what I wanted twice. However, one time I got a cantrip instead. The other time I had to take a land (top 7 cards only had cantrips, land, and a Lotus Petal).
3. I found myself pitching the card to FOW a lot more than I wanted. What that means is that DTT did not come online fast enough. This makes sense if you think about it. Unlike DelverCruise decks, we don't have "other spells" like Bolt or Plow or creatures to fuel DTT. We really only have cantrips and fetches, and I found that it wasn't enough to power the card when I wanted to cast it (t3 or t4). What this means is that the 4th copy is probably unnecessary. The deck has a weird tension with DTT. I tried out 4 copies yesterday because I thought that I always wanted to see a DTT immediately after I cast my first SNT/Sneak Attack. If my SNT doesn't get countered, my fatty will win the game. If my SNT does get countered, then I have DTT to reboot and go for round 2. However, it's awkward because the deck can't sustain 4 DTT. This leads to the next point...
4. In all honesty, this card did not solve what I find to be the biggest issue with SNT - the deck can cave in on itself at times. It's a bit slow, really only against Delver decks where you have to dance around Daze and Pierce. It's the first few turns after you lose the first counter war that the deck is super vulnerable. The idea is that DTT should show up immediately then to sort of bring you back. Like I mentioned earlier, DTT is usually NOT live //for 2 mana// at this point, which is really what we need it to be. And, because it is difficult to cast in these critical few turns, it is less powerful than I initially imagined.
5. Still, that being said, see point #1. For example, DTT won me a game that would have otherwise been unwinnable in that it got me an extra Petal to combo off a turn earlier.
6. I took the standard Jace list and made the following changes:

-2 Jace, -2 Spell Pierce (2 total), -1 Land (18, cut an Ancient Tomb)
+4 DTT, +1 Gitaxian Probe (4 total)

This by no means feels correct, but I wanted to test out the 4th DTT and see whether or not SNT could actually play 4 (in the same way that the new UR Delver played 4). Moving forward I would probably test this deck again with 3 DTT, but I think other things would have to change as well. It may just be the case that Sneak and Show is not the optimal SNT deck for DTT. I also want to try this card in an Omnitell similar to Logan Mize's list, since having a naked Omniscience in play makes this card a lot easier to cast. Also the extra 4 cantrips help fuel DTT as well.

[JPA]

Gus told me DTT performed nicely; helping to recover from Counterwars, finding two pieces at once (combo piece + combo piece, combo piece + protection) and even on the bad digs finding more cantrips or something like Brainstorm+fetch.

He also said maindeck Blood Moon was supposed to punish the greedy three/four-color manabases of decks like Team America, RUG and Deathblade and performed ok; it's obviously an easy side-out against most other decks.

He boarded the third DTT in against Miracles and thinks he probably should have boarded the 2 maindeck copies out against faster decks like Elves.

Gus beat RW Painter, 2 Miracles, Elves, 2 Deathblades and Lands in the Swiss, losing only to RUG Delver and then against Elves in the Top 8.

[javiermelero]

First of all, excuse my bad english.

I tested yesterday two copies of DTT in a small local tournament. I went 4-0 and I only played the spell once and saw it twice (the time I did not play it I had already a sneak in play and I was in BIG DUDES mode, so no need for it...). I sided it out in two games (goblins and burn; the same way I would have done with JTMS).

The time I cast it was fantastic and performed as good as expected. It was during the last match of the last round against food chain. A very typical situation for us, he is playing draw and go with a full hand and a guy in play hitting and I am stuck with some counters, the fatties but no way to play them. I drew it and played EOT (paying four, as we havent had any counter-fights and my graveyard was only two cantrips and two lands). He let it resolve (another HUGE benefit, because people will doubt if the have to go for it. And sometimes they will make the wrong choice). In my seven i see Sneak and TTB (even better than drawing protection and something Intuition cant do) and throw away some fatties and lands. Next EOT I go for it and fight a little just to untap and Sneak insanity for the win.

I didnt have the chance to try it in the other scenario I am willing to do: after a lost counterfight. Now I will have no troubles going for it more agressively and spending my counters if, at the end of the day, I have a DTT to refill with his hand exhausted.

If delvers decks go, as it looks, into delve mode, sneak will have easier first turns combos. And they are one of our worst matchups.

For now, DTT seems like a house to me. I replaced two JaceMS in the main and I think Ill be like this for a time. I usually side out gitaxian probes a lot, but now they make perfect food for DTTs...

Next week I will test de TC in Patriot.

[cris_rj]

Iam playing the following version:

creatures:
4 emrakul
4 griselbrand
2 progenitus

Spells:
4 fow
4 daze
2 spell pierce
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 show and tell
4 sneak attack
4 lotus petal

lands:
4-Scalding Tarn
4- ancient Tomb
2- island
2-volcanic island
2- city of Traitors
1- moutain
2- misty Rainforest
1- arid mesa

sideboard
1 Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Through the Breach
3 Pyroclasm
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Echoing Truth

I love Tampo in this deck ! I normally play tomb/traitor for 2 and use tampo to see top 3 cards, for a fast combo !
Any suggestions or critics ? thx !!

[e_hawk77]

So yesterday I played in a lolocal tourney with the deck. Haven't played this deck in awhile due to the fact I have had mixed results with it in the past due to the fact that even with all the cantrips you would brick too much for my liking. I decided to give it a try last night and see if dig through time had fixed this and I wasn't disappointed. This card is amazing. One of the weird things though is I was short 1 emrakul for my list but after playing the deck I wonder if I don't just want 2 and more cantrips or proactive spells like lightning bolt or fire/ice. Maybe I'm wrong but with dig it was very easy to set up your hand with the combo and some protection. What do you guys think?

[Unassigned]

So yesterday I played in a lolocal tourney with the deck. Haven't played this deck in awhile due to the fact I have had mixed results with it in the past due to the fact that even with all the cantrips you would brick too much for my liking. I decided to give it a try last night and see if dig through time had fixed this and I wasn't disappointed. This card is amazing. One of the weird things though is I was short 1 emrakul for my list but after playing the deck I wonder if I don't just want 2 and more cantrips or proactive spells like lightning bolt or fire/ice. Maybe I'm wrong but with dig it was very easy to set up your hand with the combo and some protection. What do you guys think?

It worked for Gus Schade. He's still on his same 75. We're going to a GPNJ Trial at a local store this Sunday, so I'll keep you guys posted with how we both perform. I'm still torn between what I'll be playing at the moment. It's a toss up between Miracles or Sneak & Show.

[JPA]

Won the monthly Legacy tournament in Hannover (Germany) today. 60 players, 6 rounds, no Top 8.

I don't feel like writing a too detailed report, so here are some short notes:

Rd. 1 Miracles 2-0: My turn 3 Probe shows me a lot of clunky Miracle spells in his hand in game 1 and Show and Tell Emrakul gets there.

Game 2 he surprises me with 2 Meddling Mages. Luckily, I still have Through the Breach and manage to block one of the Mages with Griselbrand, drawing 7 after the block which ultimately win me the game.

Rd. 2 BUG Delver 2-0: Game 1 I probe him after cantripping for the first 2 turns, while he played a Deathrite Shaman and a Brainstorm + Hymn on turn 2 (Hymn hit irrelevant pieces, since my hand was really redundant), Gitaxian Probe shows me only creatures and Emmy gets it done.

I misdirect a turn 2 Hymn in game 2, hitting his only real clock (Tarmogoyf) and a land. I keep on durdling around with cantrips until I go Blood Moon (resolves, he has 1 DRS) into Show and Tell (gets FoWed) into Sneak Attack, resolves. The End

Rd. 3 MUD 2-1: Really close games. He started with turn 1 Chalice on 1 in all three games, if I remember correctly.

Game 1 I kill him with Sneak Attack on turn 3 after countering some spell in the first turns, don't remember.

Game 2 I have turn 2 Show and Tell with Lotus Petal still open and Sneak Attack + Griselbrand in hand. Since he already had a Metalworker out there I thought I would rather try and kill him on the same turn, thus deciding to put Sneak Attack into play, facing a Wurmcoil Engine from his side. Naturally, Griselbrand fails to find Emrakul in the next 14 cards and a Phyrexian Revoker coming out of Cavern of Souls seals the deal on turn 3.

Game 3 I keep a mana-light hand with 2 Force of Wills and Through the Breach. He keeps my mana in check with double Wasteland, and after countering his Lodestone Golems we both find ourselves in topdeck mode. He starts beating down with Revoker + Metalworker, but doesn't find a Wurmcoil Engine or another big creature to race my Show and Tell - Emrakul.

Rd. 4 Reanimator 2-1:

Game 1 I put him on BUG Delver / ANT after turn 1 U-Sea Ponder. His eot2 Entomb into Iona shows me that he knows what I am playing and tells me that he has a Griselbrand in hand in case I go for Show and Tell. Luckily for me, the rest of his hand is counters and he doesn't find a Reanimation spell before I punch a Sneak Attack through. Dig Through Time helped with that, didn't expect the game to go that long in this matchup.

Game 2 he has protected turn 2 Griselbrand and I drown in mana-sources after whiffing on two Ponders.

Game 3 I keep a FoW-protected Grafdigger's Cage hand which gets there eventually, because he didn't find a green source for Abrupt Decay in time.

Rd. 5 Deathblade 2-0: In game 1 he simply has no way to interact with me. Game 2 he Spell Pierces and Flusterstorms my Show and Tell and dies to Sneak Attack on the turn after. Rather fast, uneventful games, but a very pleasant and friendly opponent nonetheless.

Rd. 6 Sneak & Show 4-0 (1-1-1): My buddy Tobi and I were the only ones at 5-0 so we decided to draw and play it out to decide who gets to take the prize for 1st. In game 1 I managed to recover from a turn 3 sneaky annihilation while he failed to draw another creature or a cantrip for several turns; was pretty funny. Even though he boarded 9 cards, while I boarded 4, his draws didn't seem to be capable of beating mine. I think he might have overboarded a little bit.

I played those in the flex-slots: 3 Spell Pierce, 1 Misdirection, 2 Dig Through Time, 3 Gitaxian Probe. The rest is the stock list.

and this sideboard:

2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Through the Breach
3 Pyroclasm
2 Swan Song
2 Echoing Truth

This is the list I found to be the best balanced after testing in multiple Dailies on MTGO. UR Delver can be an annoying matchup and 2 Defense Grid + 3 Pyroclasm (the 2 Echoing Truth come in, too) are usually enough to beat their tax-counters + fast clock. I am not 100 % set on Dig Through Time yet. It was extremely powerful in the late-game, but often too slow and got Brainstormed away / pitched into FoW.

[Micron]

Hi, it's been a while since I posted on the Source. As I've been reading this thread to get some ideas for the tournament, seems fair to contribute now that I got to play the deck.
Just came house after a Top8 in the LCL October (63 men, year's lowest :frown:) and this is the list I played:


4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
2 Blood Moon
4 Force of Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
2 Spell Pierce
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island

2 Echoing Truth
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
3 Pyroclasm
2 Swan Song
2 Defense Grid
2 Through the Breach


IMO, Dig Through Time is here to stay. When resolved the card was excellent at finding either protection, business and even red producers to Sneak Attack Activations when I was lacking Volcanic Islands/Petals. As Gus Schade, I decided to play a pair of copies of Blood Moon as additional bombs vs popular decks here as Canadian, BUG and Jund. Never had the chance to drop it T1 and because of my pairings wasn't needed at all, so it went to my SB a lot. The rest ain't nothing new, I like the Probes to see if the coast is clear and Pyroclasm off the side is the hell of a card nowadays with UR everywhere.

Rounds and memories of the games:
R1. Jund (2-0). Luckily, G1 he went the creature route and Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant can't compete vs Griselbrand at all. Had to fow a Liliana of the Veil and took the game short after. G2 He mulled to 6. In T2 he tapped for Duress, I brainstormed to hide the Blood Moon and tapped out for a Shaman which I forced, I drop the Moon and it was pretty much game although we played a long one because I wanted a Sneak/Through the Break kill as I sided out Probes and never had information of his hand.

R2. UR Cruise (2-1). G1 I had a ridiculous hand of Tomb, Petal, Petal, S&T, Emrakul, Fow and blue card. He Probed T2 and tapped out for a Swiftspear with 4 cards in hand. I went for it and he scooped. I actually was fearing a mirror match but that wasn't the case, if he hadn't played the creature, I wouldn't have gone for it. G2 I mulled to 6 and he needed TRIPLE Force to prevent me going off. A Swiftspear out of Pyroclasm's range and a Ponder+Bolt ended it. G3 I won it with Griselbrand + Emrakul through Sneak Attack.

R3. Reanimator (2-0). G1 I Pierced two Entombs and he only was able to drop an Elesh Norn on the yard. At some point I resolve S&T, he drops Griselbrand, I drop Sneak Attack into Emrakul to prevent him drawing. I had 2 Griselbrand for the next turn and he scoops with his board clear. G2 he mulled to 5 and I won it with Through the Breach into Griselbrand into more stuff. He never played a discard spell which would have made things more difficult.

R4. Omniscience w Enter the Infinite (2-1). After a really long G1 with both of us too afraid to S&T, he ended up winning it by HARDCASTING Omniscience, I saw Blood Moon in my hand a realized what a moron I was. I had fowed previously a S&T from Intuition so he wasn't finding the last copy and his list didn't play Dream Halls. Oh well. G2 he drew toons of cards with Brainstorms, Ponders, Preordains, Treasure Cruises and Dig Through Times, this man had all of them. I won the counterwar when he went off thanks to Pyroblast, Fow and Swan Song. When I was at 5 from Bird hits, I drew a Sneak Attack won with Emrakul. I won G3 in turn 5 when after a Brainstorm I saw the necessary red source to activate a resolved Sneak Attack through Lotus Petal.

R5. BUG (ID)
R6. Miracles (ID).

Top8 (Merfolks). He played a list without Dazes and Wastelands and I managed to lose G1. He starded with Vial and Chalice of the Void at 0 which turned to be key as I had Island, Fetch and Petal as producers. He Fowed a S&T and applied the pressure that Merfolk usually do. Starting my turn with lethal on the table my lands were Island, Island, Volcanic, City of Traitors, in hand Sneak Attack and Emrakul vs his 6 permanents. I proceed to draw... Lotus petal. Scoop. G2 I kept a land with producers, Sneak Attack and Defense Grid, which resolved T2 off Ancient Tomb. After a Brainstorm and both Probes failed to draw a creature and lost to his double Lord + Mutavault.

Overall the deck felt really consistent and just had to mulligan only thrice through the tournament.

[J-Funk]

I'm really surprised we're not seeing Sneak and Show getting better finishes right now with all the Elves decks running around. What do you guys suppose accounts for the lack of showings?

[JPA]

I'm really surprised we're not seeing Sneak and Show getting better finishes right now with all the Elves decks running around. What do you guys suppose accounts for the lack of showings?

It is just very underplayed. New Legacy players can't afford the cards and most long-time Legacy players think they have a better chance to win if they play something that allows them to utilize their format-knowledge better. Sneak & Show has a lot of raw power, and even if you make mistakes (by using your cantrips inefficiently for example) you can still get a lot of free wins. Other decks reward you more for good technical play, even though they are less "powerful".

It is also a matter of location. There are very few dedicated Sneak and Show players on the East Coast, where most SCG Opens take place. Midwestern Opens usually have more Sneak&Shows in the Top 8/16, because they have very proficient S&S-pilots like Dylan Jones, Adam Jansen, Chris Bergeson, Adam Fronsee, Gus Schade, Jason Jaco and all the others I'm forgetting right now. :tongue:

[dave8]

How do you guys cantrip efficiently?
If you open a hand with a BS, Ponder and SP do you play a cantrip or hold for a turn?

[Vandalize]

How do you guys cantrip efficiently?
If you open a hand with a BS, Ponder and SP do you play a cantrip or hold for a turn?

Depends a lot. If you're playing against black decks, the better play is to play land -> go, so that you can Spell Pierce his discard spell or Brainstorm in response to protect your cards. If he goes for other plays, you can Brainstorm EOT. If you don't have fetchlands in your hand, you should also start with BS then follow with Ponder, to shuffle if necessary.

@thread

My latest list, after seeing a lot of posts here (and some testing, of course):

Lands [19]
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain

Creatures [8]
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells [33]
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Lotus Petal
3 Spell Pierce
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Blood Moon
1 Intuition
1 Misdirection

Sideboard [15]
3 Pyroclasm
3 Through the Breach
2 Echoing Truth
2 Defense Grid
2 Flusterstorm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Blood Moon
1 Ashen Rider

I've tested Dig Through Time, and found it pretty bad. I know it has a lot of reach and draw power, but I've come to some awkward situations:

1) Sometimes you don't get 6 cards into your graveyard fast enough.
2) Once you've attack with Emrakul with Sneak Attack (and your opponent hasn't scooped, or have Stifled your annihilator trigger), Emrakul will shuffle your graveyard, and DTT will be uncastable.
3) Once I've have enough cards to cast DTT, I already cantripped to my combo (or permission to push the combo through).

All in all, it was being just Force of Will fodder, and the few times I was actually able to cast it, only once or twice it was good. That being said, I think I'll go with Intuition, as a safe slot, since it pretty much fits the same role as DTT (and nobody's playing Surgical Extraction).

Have you guys experienced something similar?

[Koby]

Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

Thanks.

[GoblinZ]

Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

Thanks.

Question 1: Chas Hinkle played two moon in main and had a good finish in GP Wangshington.

here is the list: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12214&iddeck=89529

Actually I don't think it's a good idea now to play moon in main with a lot miracle, elves or UR delver in current meta...needle is better imo against DnT.

Question 2 : I have not tested Dig my self, but I assume it is good against discard and control, but seems too slow against any deck with a fast clock. You can cast intuition on turn two, but can rarely cast dig on turn two. And dig anyway requires UU, which may be a problem too.

[JPA]

Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

Thanks.

1) It didn't. Gus Schade played it at SCGIndy, because he expected a lot of 3c/4c Tempo decks and Deathblade. I wouldn't play them (main deck) at the moment, we don't want any dead cards in race-matchups like UR Delver and Elves.

2) You usually cast Intuition the turn before you go off, DTT is much slower but great at recovering after a lost counter-war. I am still testing with DTT, but Intuition has been passing tests for 4 years :wink: - it's always a safe choice as a 1/2-of.

Edit @Koby or any Mod/Admin: Could you please remove the "l" in the thread title ("[Deckl]")?

[Vandalize]

Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

Thanks.

#1
Blood Moon is great against Tempo decks, and being BUG Delver one of our worst matchups (probably after DnT), I think it's fine to put 2 Moons maindeck. Everyone knows it's pretty much GG when you can resolve it. They're a must counter against lots of decks, and even against decks it's not great, hating on Karakas or Gaea's Cradle can buy you a turn or two. Also, don't forget that Elves lists now run plenty of fetchlands to support DRS.

It also makes sideboarding easy against decks that tend to play basics.

All in all, it's probably the same reason why UR Delver and Miracles are playing 1-of Pyroblast maindeck. It's great against some matchups, worthless against others. Doesn't take a whole lot of space, and as a 2-of you're unlikely to draw both.

#2
I'd probably go for Intuition. Easier casting, finds everything you need, nobody's playing Surgical Extraction. DTT requires a setup, and it's only truly great against discard decks in a long run (you can Spell Pierce and Brainstorm hide in the early turns). I'd probably only want DTT against Jund or Pox, to be fair.

[Unassigned]

Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?

Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

Thanks.

Here's my take on both of these...

Gus ran this in a pretty wide open metagame and got rewarded. While you'd think that it would be a less-than-powerful card in many cases, it's actually a backbreaker against many decks in the early turns. Consider how Miracles does have basics, but also runs anywhere between 8-10 fetchlands, 3-4 duals, plus 1-2 Karakas and possibly Mystic Gate. If they expect it, they can easily play around it, but they will not in the first game and Gus actually stole two game 1's because of exactly that line of play. It's a very personal choice due to the evolving metagame. I'm running the pair in the main now and I've only found it useless a three times, two being against UR Delver and the other against an Omni opponent when we got into the late game. The card steals games all by itself, but decide for yourself if the risk of a dead card is worth it. We are seeing a heavy Elves, UR, Miracles and BUG metagame. Blood Moon being insane against one, slightly less than moderate against two, and pretty abysmal against the other.

As for Dig vs Intuition, I've changed my initial tune on this card. Originally, I was against it, but it definitely does have it's place. It helps greatly in the Miracles matchup, but doesn't shine as much in the aggro matchups. I feel like it's fine in a more combo/control-oriented field, but I would run Intuition in a heavy aggro field. Personally, I feel like the best shell for Dig is in High Tide and Omni-Show. Both run 12 1cc cantrips, a plethora of fetchlands, and fuel their yard extremely fast while sculpting their hands with combo pieces.

[Norm]

Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

Thanks.

I've found Intuition to be the better card in most instances. It allows for better sideboards, more consistent early combo turns and doesn't rely on the graveyard whatsoever.

Testing DTT has proven that it's a powerful card worthy of inclusion, but not likely as more than a 1 or 2 of. Initially, I wanted to run 3 DTT with a single Intuition because it opens the (slow) line of Intuition for 3 DTT while putting 3 cards in the yard to fuel it. The result was that I drew these early DTT and wished they were Intuitions. Despite casting a handful of turn 2 DTT, I rarely found it to be more powerful than Intuition.

I'll continue testing throughout the week but I'm likely going to be on either 2 Intuition + 2 DTT or 3 Intuition + 1 DTT for Eternal Weekend. I think it's a fantastic card for longer games and gives you an out to scenarios where you've been out-attrition-ed (active Lilly post failed combo, for example) while also allowing you to more easily overpower the blue decks. Ultimately, I value speed and consistency above easier recovery and extra padding which is what I believe DTT offers this deck.

On an unrelated note, I'm psyched to be back on my favorite legacy deck of all time after scrubbing out with UR delver at Worcester in my first event since returning home.

Keep making monsters, boys. :cool:

[JPA]

On an unrelated note, I'm psyched to be back on my favorite legacy deck of all time after scrubbing out with UR delver at Worcester in my first event since returning home.

Keep making monsters, boys. :cool:

Awesome to have you back, Norman! I still remember your great report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23768-Where-The-Wild-Things-Are-20th-at-SCG-Providence-with-Sneak-Attack) and hope we will get to read another one after Legacy Champs. :smile:

[Norm]

Awesome to have you back, Norman! I still remember your great report (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23768-Where-The-Wild-Things-Are-20th-at-SCG-Providence-with-Sneak-Attack) and hope we will get to read another one after Legacy Champs. :smile:

Thanks, JPA!

I always have fun playing this deck so I'll be sure to take notes and follow up with you guys afterward.

By the way, you did an awesome job with this primer. Thanks for the great contribution!

[sawatarix]

dig through time is not what this deck wants to do in my opinion.
Sneak Show is designed to put a dude on the field as fast as possible (!)
In my testing games against team america i lost more than half of the games because i got raced even after i executed the combo because i played to "controlish"- seriously,this is the worst kind of loosing.

What the deck needs is additional speed and demonic tutors so gitaxian probe and intuition have their home here.
Dtt is a great tool to recover later in the game but i would rather build a deck which has such a strong early game that there won't be a lategame most of te time.

[Unassigned]

Not to distract from the purpose of this thread, but please use the current "goings-on" in the Magic world as a reminder to play legit, and hold your opponents to the same standard that you are engaging in. Protect yourself, and always call over a judge for any suspect play. It saddens me to see what's transpired over the last several days in the game that I love.

[tescrin]

Intuition = Demonic Tutor (for 3 mana + the occasional shuffle graveyard/library)

Why would DTT be more powerful?
Maybe supplementary, but IMO Sneakshow probably shouldn't open itself up to more hatebears (Teeg) than it needs to. What makes the deck powerful aside from being compact combo + myriad counters is that it's resilient. I could have a board of

You're at 5-HP (somehow), 5 lands
I have DRS, Teeg, Thalia, Canonist, Wasteland, Karakas, Bayou

and you can still just Land, S&T->Sneak->Emmy with me being essentially ~100% chance to lose. While the above board is exaggerated (and thalia makes it a lot of lands to double-sneak), the exaggeration shows why diluting the deck too much with weird cards will probably weaken it. Teeg probably comes in for something against you just to make your line more convoluted, and at a time when Miracles is being targeted by Teegs everywhere and Cruise + DTT is being meta'd against; I feel like opening yourself up needlessly in a deck as reliable and powerful as this one isn't worth it.

Think about how confident that board state looks while being a ~100% to lose. Can't cast sneak. Can't dig + do stuff. Can't pay for things easily. Can't show in fat and have it work. He's probably sandbagging Decay for a Moon, maybe sitting on Lily and didn't want to tap out due to said Moon. Then Boom. Lose.

[Brentane]

Hello people. My mate said I should try out this deck because it sounds like my playstyle. I've got the cards for and played 12 post and Reanimator. I told him how this deck is a combination of the two, but without a toolbox option and he said I should give it a go. So I'm gonna proxy the deck up for Monday and see how it plays. Any advice on the deck?

P.S. As for decks I play now, I mostly play Elves, some Goblins, some Merfolk, and trying U/R Delver at the moment. Would this deck be a great inclusion for my Gauntlet? I'll take apart U/R Delver if it becomes a deck I play.

[JPA]

Any advice on the deck?


There is plenty of advice in the primer!

[apple713]

Any advice on the deck?




There is plenty of advice in the primer!



yes, read the primer. this is one of the best primers i have seen on the site.

[sawatarix]

how have Jace the Mind sculptor and vendillion clique been in the maindeck for you guys?

Both cards were pretty good against Miracle Control and having more "threats" felt always good so far.
Other people say that jace is just a 4-Mana Brainstorm because we have no way to protect it from opposing creatures.

[i_b_TRUE]

Just got back from Eternal Weekend. Was 4-0, then 4-2 and had to leave Rd 7 my girl friend got sick at work and I had to pick her up :frown:

I will have a tournament report tomorrow. But quickly, DTT got countered the 2 times I cast it... I kind of miss Jace... and My 2 losses were Deathblade and Jund (triple thoughtseized g1 & g2 against Jund.) I do feel like I want Leyline of Sanctity back in the SB. Lemme know your thoughts and I'll have the report for tomorrow!

[i_b_TRUE]

Hey guys, here is the list I played at Eternal Weekend on 10/25/14. I started off 4-0, then fell to 4-2 and had to leave rd 7 as my girl friend got sick and I had to drive an hour to pick her up at work. But I did want to write a small tournament report and share my thoughts. I've been playing the deck for about 5 months and I do feel like I make misplays from here and there, but I do feel I have confidence and a tight grasp on what my game plan is each game and how to utilize each cantrip correctly.

Lands [19]
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain

Creatures [8]
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells [33]
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Lotus Petal
3 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Dig Through Time
1 Misdirection

Sideboard [15]
3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Echoing Truth
2 Defense Grid
2 Swan Song
2 Blood Moon
2 Grafdiggers Cage

Rd1. Opponent was a no show :eyebrow:
After waking up at 6am, and getting there by 8am... and they player meeting was scheduled for 9am, we didnt start until 11am. It did affect me a little since I was aggravated over the long wait and didnt even get to play rd1... but I'll take the win.

Rd2. vs Lands
G1, he was on the play and went Mox diamond, land pass. I had Island into Ponder... I found SnT which was exactly what I needed for my Hand of Petal, Emrakul, City of Traitors and win easily. G2 I board in the Blood Moons and he has a slow start and isnt doing much, I find a Blood Moon on my brainstorm and lock him out until I find Griselbrand.

Rd3. vs Elves
G1, he was on the play with Land DRS. I had a slow start but had a FOW for a quick Glimpse or Natural Order if he had one. The game went long and i countered his first Natural Order and went SnT into Emrakul. He then bounced his Visionary with Wirewood to find another Natural Order for Craterhoof but it wasnt enough damage and I had Emrakul to block.
G2, I had to Mull to 6, but I found a Cage for T1. That was able to slow him down as he was just attacking with his guys, I landed a Sneak Attack into Griselbrand, Drew 7 which put me to 2 life but I found an Emrakul for the win.

Rd4. vs RW Painter
G1 was quick, he had Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit guide, into Recruiter... I had FOW for it. I went on to find Emrakul for my SnT to win.
G2, We both had to mull to 6. We both went land pass for 3 turns, on t4 he decided to go for recruiter and i let it resolve as i had Sneak Sttack into Emrakul next turn with FOW back up for his Pyroblast for the win.

Rd5. vs Jund
G1, not even close. I had to mull to 5 with an opener of Tarn, Tomb, SnT, Brainstorm, Spell Pierce. He had T1 Thoughtseize and took my Brainstorm. T3 he has double Thoughtseize which was 3 in his first 2 turns... you can figure out that it was over after that.
G2, I had to mull to 5 again but Had Tomb, Volcanic, Blood Moon, FOW, Sneak Attack. I had land pass. He started with T1 DRS, I had T2 Blood Moon. We went back and forth for a while as he just kept attacking with DRS. He drew a thoughtseize followed by a second one after that. I saw 2 ponders which I had to shuffle twice. He finally drew a swamp to use DRS to Abrupt Decay my Blood Moon, Landed a BBE into Bolt and DRS for the win.

Rd5. vs Esper Deathblade
G1, I was on the draw and had to mull to 5 once again... Opener was no land, 6 hand was Griselbrand, Spell Pierce, 4 land (which seemed unkeepable) He had t1 Thoughtseize and took my Ponder and just stumbled to his Stoneforge and TNN.
G2, I had a solid start, I had turn 1 Defense Grid and won from there.
G3, Had to mull to 5 and kept Volcanic, Delta, Pyroclasm, Ponder, Sneak Attack (pyroclasm for Meddling Mage) I was able to draw well, but he had to much pressue, Stoneforge into Liliana, into Jace and fateseal me out.

All in all it went well. But from the tournament and the last, I lost games to Jund and Esper Deathblade due to Thoughtseize. I do miss having Leyline of Sanctity and think I will add it and cut the blood moons. I also think Defense Grid needs to be in the list... and I want to cut Swan Song for Flusterstorm. I also only cast DTT twice and they were both countered. I kind of missed Jace in the Jund/Deathblade matchups. I also was disapointed I didnt face any UR Delver lists since during testing, Sneak and Show was destroying it. What do you guys think of the changes? Let me know, thanks and let's keep this deck going!

[Brentane]

Hi people. Proxied up Sneak and Show and I love how it is just so powerful. Was playing with my friends with casual games with it, and I felt so guilt. I don't know if it was because they were proxied and not real or because the deck was powerful. But I had the biggest grin every time I saw an Emrakyl off a ponder or brainstorm. Usually I am disappointed when I see one in 12 Post, so this was a nice change. Feels so awkward dropping an Emrakyl casually on turn 2. In the primer I did not notice anything on why someone should not play this deck. Can anyone give me any reasons which might want to not build this deck?

[apple713]

Hi people. Proxied up Sneak and Show and I love how it is just so powerful. Was playing with my friends with casual games with it, and I felt so guilt. I don't know if it was because they were proxied and not real or because the deck was powerful. But I had the biggest grin every time I saw an Emrakyl off a ponder or brainstorm. Usually I am disappointed when I see one in 12 Post, so this was a nice change. Feels so awkward dropping an Emrakyl casually on turn 2. In the primer I did not notice anything on why someone should not play this deck. Can anyone give me any reasons which might want to not build this deck?

you probably won't find any really good reasons here. not everyone likes playing combo, or has a ton of money to invest in cards that only see play in few decks.

the deck does have issues with consistency occasionally but otherwise it is very solid and has very few weak matchups

[Vandalize]

How good is Gitaxian Probe in this deck? Information it provides is always useful, but often I wish it was a Spell Pierce, or more business. Storm combo has a better shot with Gitaxian Probe because they can combo with Cabal Therapy for full value.

This is my list:

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
3 Intuition
3 Spell Pierce
1 Misdirection
2 Blood Moon
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
SB: 3 Through the Breach
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth (this slot is really bad, only really useful against Enchantress and Chalice of the Void decks)
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Ashen Rider
SB: 1 Shattering Spree

Echoing Truth is a necessary evil? Should I find place for Leyline of Sanctity, since I'm playing without DTT?

[Grand Superior]

I don't run Gitaxian Probe in Sneak and Show and I agree with your sentiment. I know that the free information is fantastic, but I do always wish that the card was a Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Intuition, Dig Through Time, or even a Preordain. Storm does make better use of it not just because of Cabal Therapy, but because it adds to the Storm count and to Threshold for Cabal Ritual (although I will say that Dig Through Time does make Gitaxian Probe in Sneak and Show sound more appealing).

Echoing Truth - It might just be me, but I'd never leave without at least two copies of bounce in my 75. Sneak and Show may not be the format's boogeyman at the moment, but I hate knowing that I can't deal with a "must-answer" permanent like Ensnaring Bridge or Humility.

As for Leyline of Sanctity - IMO it's not a good sideboard card to be running right now. My other Legacy deck is Team America/BUG Delver and over on that thread there seems to be some consensus that targeted discard just isn't cutting it in the new Treasure Cruise world and Liliana of the Veil matches up horribly against Monastery Swiftspears and UR Delver. People there seem to be dropping discard in favour of cards like Stifle and that makes it seem like the Leyline of Sanctity SB slots are better used elsewhere.

[Koby]

I think Gitaxian Probe shines best against matchups where Show & Tell is sometimes a liability, and also against Tempo decks that play soft counters. In both cases, it's value shines well above Spell Pierce or other taxing counters. In matchups where you know you're favored, you simply board them out (Elves for instance).

[Unassigned]

I've been doing a lot of testing against the latest flavor of the month, UR Delver. Seeing as the meta is swamped with it, I decided to test a theory last night.

Rather than running Pyroclasm in my board, I ran Volcanic Fallout. The additional mana for instant speed and uncounterability seemed to be well worth it. The 2 damage to both players could be considered a boon or a bane, depending on your game position. Either way, I faced UR Delver several times and Fallout was a wrecking ball. I didn't need to worry about their Daze, Force or boarded Flusterstorms. It also allowed me to sit back while my Elves opponent was comboing off, and I swept his board when he went for his Behemoth. The only time I regretted it was when I brought it in against UWR Delver, and had to give them a target for their Wastelands after it was cast.

That being said, does anyone else think that this could be worth looking into more?

[Koby]

Even thought Fallout has positive points for it against counter-magic, I feel that we're playing the "deal 2 damage to everything" effect because it's a convenient mana cost of 2 mana. This is particularly important against D&T matches, where Thalia would make it cost :2::r:.

I'm less concerned with Pyroclasm against UR Delver, as we should just be jamming Defense Grid, checking their hand with Gitaxian Probe, and resolving S&T as soon as possible under the Grid. Pyroclasm may be too slow for this matchup post-board. Therein lies the danger of over-boarding against a mostly even matchup.

[Unassigned]

True, but that is another matchup where the instant speed could shine as well. I haven't tested that one yet. Perhaps I'll seek one out tonight and see how it plays out. As for Defense Grid, I'm not a fan of it at all in the S&S sideboard. I think that this was discussed many pages back as a sideboard card that has lost it's efficacy over recent time.

[JPA]

I love Defense Grid, it's the best card in the Tempo matchup in my opinion.

I would always board Pyroclasm against UR Delver, slowing them down is pretty valuable. I found the games against them to be a race pretty often, since they don't have as much disruption as the other Delver decks.

Hence my boarding plan against them:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Force of Will
-2 Dig Through Time

+3 Pyroclasm
+2 Defense Grid
+2 Echoing Truth

[Ellomdian]

I think Gitaxian Probe shines best against matchups where Show & Tell is sometimes a liability...

This is a bit of an understatement, but I feel like it is a good summary why I love Probes in this deck. Knowing that you have a few turns to assemble a more resilient combo is worth just as much as finding out that the coast is clear right now. While you might not be able to eke out extra value on a Therapy, having complete information about a given turn is invaluable.If you are encountering situations where you wish the Probe was something else, odds are you could (and should) have cycled the Probe already.

[Koby]

Hence my boarding plan against them:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Force of Will
-2 Dig Through Time

+3 Pyroclasm
+2 Defense Grid
+2 Echoing Truth

I think that in this case, boarding in Echoing Truth is the over-boarding. I would also keep the Forces in, as countering an early Delver is a good way to buy a ton of time. DTT is rubbish for this matchup tho, so that's an easy board out.

[JPA]

I think that in this case, boarding in Echoing Truth is the over-boarding. I would also keep the Forces in, as countering an early Delver is a good way to buy a ton of time. DTT is rubbish for this matchup tho, so that's an easy board out.

Echoing Truth can also buy a ton of time as well as getting rid of random permanent hate like Needle (which I encountered online a lot).

I don't feel 4 FoWs are necessary when we have Defense Grid post-board. 3 Pyroclasm are enough to get rid of Delvers, no need to FoW them.

[Unassigned]

Echoing Truth can also buy a ton of time as well as getting rid of random permanent hate like Needle (which I encountered online a lot).

I don't feel 4 FoWs are necessary when we have Defense Grid post-board. 3 Pyroclasm are enough to get rid of Delvers, no need to FoW them.

Truth is definitely the right call in the Delver matchup. But as for Defense Grid, I really just prefer Boseiju in that slot, especially since Defense Grid has no effect on Counterbalance.

JPA - Thoughts on Fallout?

[JPA]

Truth is definitely the right call in the Delver matchup. But as for Defense Grid, I really just prefer Boseiju in that slot, especially since Defense Grid has no effect on Counterbalance.

JPA - Thoughts on Fallout?

I just prefer Defense Grid in a Tempo-heavy metagame. Boseiju is obviously awesome against Miracles and in the mirror, where Defense Grid is useless.

@Fallout: I don't really like it. Boseiju+Pyroclasm does the same job against UR Delver and Pyroclasm's upside (:1: less) outweighs the instant-speed and uncounterability of Fallout in my opinion.

It's awesome against Merfolk, though - a super annoying matchup!

[Unassigned]

@Fallout: I don't really like it. Boseiju+Pyroclasm does the same job against UR Delver and Pyroclasm's upside (:1: less) outweighs the instant-speed and uncounterability of Fallout in my opinion.

With the booming popularity of Delver, I'm not sure that I want to rely on a 2 card combo that still doesn't do 2 damage to my opponent (still 2 to me due to Boseiju) and no longer instant speed to wipe a board. I'm still in the very early stages of testing this, and with work, Halloween and my anniversary with my wife coming up on Sunday, I haven't had time to test this much at all since the initial night. I think I'll run it during my local Tuesday night Legacy and go from there.

[MGB]

Ruh Roh!

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/63/702/635503477634202761.png

[MaximumC]

Ruh Roh!

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/63/702/635503477634202761.png

That horrible noise you hear from the next room is the sound of all the Death & Taxes players cackling manically.

[Koby]

That horrible noise you hear from the next room is the sound of all the Death & Taxes players cackling manically.

The fact they need to cast this (with mana) is a point against it from the D&T perspective. That means it can be countered.

I'm mistaken. It might still be bad for Sneak & Show. They can Vial in Containment Priest, even though it stops future Vial cheats.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The sudden silence you hear from the other room is the sound of all the Death & Taxes players realizing yet again that they still don't play blue.

[wonderPreaux]

The fact they need to cast this (with mana) is a point against it from the D&T perspective. That means it can be countered.

they can cavern it, human is a good tribe for them, they even get thalia, right?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The fact they need to cast this (with mana) is a point against it from the D&T perspective. That means it can be countered.

I'm mistaken. It might still be bad for Sneak & Show. They can Vial in Containment Priest, even though it stops future Vial cheats.

Are you sure? Doesn't the fact that it's a static effect mean that it exiles itself upon entering the battlefield?




they can cavern it, human is a good tribe for them, they even get thalia, right?

Yeah, but most lists afaik only run a singleton Cavern. In a list with no draw whatsoever, that sounds like an out, not a strategy.

-ABC

[d0nkey]

they can cavern it, human is a good tribe for them, they even get thalia, right?

It doesn't counter it, it just RFG's it instead.

[i_b_TRUE]

This card should only show up in DnT. Plus we have Pyroclasm for it already for that matchup for EOT Echoing Truth... we shouldnt be to worried.

[Koby]

Are you sure? Doesn't the fact that it's a static effect mean that it exiles itself upon entering the battlefield?


Yes, check out Comp Rules 614.12:


614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent's characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.

Example: Voice of All says "As Voice of All enters the battlefield, choose a color" and "Voice of All has protection from the chosen color." An effect creates a token that's a copy of Voice of All. As that token is put onto the battlefield, its controller chooses a color for it.
Example: Yixlid Jailer says "Cards in graveyards lose all abilities." Scarwood Treefolk says "Scarwood Treefolk enters the battlefield tapped." A Scarwood Treefolk that's put onto the battlefield from a graveyard enters the battlefield tapped.
Example: Orb of Dreams is an artifact that says "Permanents enter the battlefield tapped." It won't affect itself, so Orb of Dreams enters the battlefield untapped.

614.12a. If a replacement effect that modifies how a permanent enters the battlefield requires a choice, that choice is made before the permanent enters the battlefield.

[Brentane]

I was really into getting this deck, but now I am scared of Containment Priest. It's just so good for D&T. Want to kill the Elves matchup? CP. Want to kill Reanimator? CP. Want to kill Sneak & Show? CP.

[i_b_TRUE]

This could be depressing if this card destorys 3 decks... but for Sneak and Show we do have SnT and Pyroclasm out of the board. So I think we should be fine. Reanimator and Elves have an issue.

[Unassigned]

Ruh Roh!

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/63/702/635503477634202761.png

One more reason why I'm liking the instant speed of Volcanic Fallout more and more over Pyroclasm.

[Polishguy00]

I was playing around with some weirder lists this weekend in mtgo dailies:

Tried playing 2 Cruises and 2 Digs instead of Spell Pierce with some success. I just wanted to try to find something that continues to be good on it's own later in a game. Still, it not much to go on as I had a few bad keeps and an epic punt from being a bit rusty in Legacy since the scene recently died at my LGS. There seems to be a tiny advantage where I have to sac or discard Emrakul after I have already delved--get rid of the lands, etc. Plus, DTT and the Cruises also ate up counters to open the doors a couple times.

I'm still playing 2 Fire/Ice instead of two Jace. One main deck TTB for 9th enabler is the other one.

On that white card, I was mad at first, but it really is just another bad card in a bad match-up. Not sure if it is any worse than Clique taking an enabler.

Just working on tweaking the SB for Jersey; my first Legacy GP. I am down to

1) Deciding on trying 2 Daze main like the two recent top 20 finishes at SCG Opens did. Fire/Ice would probably be what I take out.
2) Switching out 2 Swan Songs for Defense Grids on SB

Anyone else try anything above recently?

[JPA]

Switching out 2 Swan Songs for Defense Grids on SB


I wouldn't replace one with the other, since they are boarded in completely different matchups (Song against Combo/Miracles, Defense Grid against Tempo).

[Brentane]

Want to build this deck so much, but with the printing of Containment Priest, I don't know if I want too. Is this deck just dead against the card and what are some ways to beat it?

[Ragdoll]

Want to build this deck so much, but with the printing of Containment Priest, I don't know if I want too. Is this deck just dead against the card and what are some ways to beat it?

It potentially could make a tough matchup even harder so who cares? Plus there's already a v.clique/venser thing so one more is not the end of the world :)


Offtop to the sneak&show pilots: why are you using pyroclasms/v.fallouts (almost uncastable in d&t matchup) instead of some sulfur elementals/black splash (massacre/dread of night)? It's been more than two years since I've played sneak show but I've never been using pyro in d&t matchup (mother of runes, wastelands, ports etc) so I wonder :)

[Polishguy00]

I wouldn't replace one with the other, since they are boarded in completely different matchups (Song against Combo/Miracles, Defense Grid against Tempo).

Yeah. I just don't know which one to learn towards. I'm more comfortable with Song since I have had it in since I built the deck (Been back playing for about a year and we had an ANT player at my LGS).

As for the 2 DTT and 2 Tresure Cruise experiment:

Went 3-1 last night, losing to the Aggro Mono White Solider Deck that I had never played against before. He seemed to have a nut draw in Game 1 (20+ damage on turn 3) and I punted game 2 with bad sequencing along with an epic mis-click. It is extremely possible I would have lost anyway, but it was bad. Beat 12 Post, Elves and Miracles.

DTT won a game on it's own. Cruise won another by finding an extra blue card for Force of Will to protect Sneak Attack. So, I have some time this weekend for another couple dailies, but I think I am on this for Jersey:

Land (19)
4 Volcanics
4 Tarns
2 Flooded Stand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Tratiors

Spells (33)
4 Lotus Petal
2 Daze
1 Through the Breach
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time
2 Treasure Cruise
4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell

Fatties (8)
4 Emrakul
4 Griselbrand

Sideboard (15)
2 Through the Breach
3 Blood Moon
2 Swan Song
1 Boseiju
3 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Shattering Spree
1 Echoing Truth

JPA, I think I would be weakest running into Dredge since no one has ever played that at my LGS and I still haven't run into it online. Any advice, besides aggressive mulligans to get Grafdigger's in hand? I am happy to hear any advice at all since my level of play probably stands at "competent."

[JPA]

JPA, I think I would be weakest running into Dredge since no one has ever played that at my LGS and I still haven't run into it online. Any advice, besides aggressive mulligans to get Grafdigger's in hand? I am happy to hear any advice at all since my level of play probably stands at "competent."

Counter their enablers (Careful Study, Putrid Imp, Faithless Looting, Breakthrough, LED) if you can. Since you don't play any Spell Pierces, the matchup (your combo-matchup in general) will probably be very tough in game 1.

Also note that you can make use of the legend rule to get rid of their Bridge from Below(s) (attacking with Griselbrand, then Show and Telling another one into play post-combat, sacrificing the tapped one, to have a blocker and exile their Bridges).

Generally, the matchup comes down to a race, so avoid keeping slow hands unless you have a ton of permission to buy you the needed time.

[GoblinZ]

Have you seen Brad Nelson's newest list ? what is the point playing overmaster again in current meta?

[S1N1STER]

Have you seen Brad Nelson's newest list ? what is the point playing overmaster again in current meta?

I ran one maindeck at SCG Worcester, everytime I drew it in games vs. miracles or delver it was good. There were a few times I even cast it without a S&T and my opponent cast FoW on it. I ended up going up to 2 of them on Saturday for a dual land event and while I went 2-2 then drop, I still like it with all the maindeck pyroblasts I was seeing in the delver decks.

[GoblinZ]

I ran one maindeck at SCG Worcester, everytime I drew it in games vs. miracles or delver it was good. There were a few times I even cast it without a S&T and my opponent cast FoW on it. I ended up going up to 2 of them on Saturday for a dual land event and while I went 2-2 then drop, I still like it with all the maindeck pyroblasts I was seeing in the delver decks.

Oh, sure, I forget about maindecking pyroblast recently, overmaster seems really good or even necessary in current meta.

[JPA]

Overmaster seems nice against the overload of REB-effects being played right now, yeah. Still, I really dislike the sideboard choices Brad made. Leyline seems very unnecessary in the current meta and I wouldn't leave home without at least 2 Through the Breaches and some amount of Pyroblasts (being able to counter post-board Treasure Cruises is very important).


My main deck for GPNJ is pretty much set right now, except for 2 slots:

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Force of Will
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
1 Misdirection
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Daze / 2 Fire||Ice / 2 Overmaster / 2 Dig Through Time

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
3 Island

Even kind of forgotten cards like Intuition or Preordain are still an option. Intuition especially is getting heavily undervalued at the moment, with all the DTT-hype.

My current SB for GPNJ (might get changed after playing trial(s) on friday):


3 Pyroclasm
2 Through the Breach
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blood Moon
2 Defense Grid
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Echoing Truth

Hope to meet some of you at the Grand Prix! PM me if you want to meet up!

[S1N1STER]

I agree with you about his sideboard 100%, and actually the sideboard I was planning on playing is the same as yours except 2x REB because I don't own a Korean pyroblast, and I like to go with 1 wipe away, 1 echoing truth. Also I think I am going back to 2 intuition after trying out dig a few times, I am thinking about running 3 overmaster tool in case I need to find one with an intuition, not sure though.

[Polishguy00]

Hmmm, interesting in that sideboard is the exact one I had when I originally constructed the deck.

Glad that someone else mentioned the Leylines, because I couldn't understand that selection, either.

Also, with some more testing over the weekend, I am going with this for the spells (Fatties and lands are redundant) portion of the deck for the GP:

Spells (33)
4 Petals
4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
1 Through the Breach
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Misdirection
2 Dig Through Time
2 Fire/Ice

SB Right Now:
3 Pyroclasm
1 Pyroblast
1 Boseiju
1 Echoing Truth
1 Shattering Spree
2 Through the Breach
2 Swan Song (Kind of liking the Defense Grid idea, though, I forgot about them)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blood Moon

[Unassigned]

Hope to meet some of you at the Grand Prix! PM me if you want to meet up!

I will be at the GP with Gus Schade and John Wiley. We're going to arrive sometime Thursday afternoon/evening and definitely get in on some of the side events (like the last chance GP trials) before the insanity of the GP on Saturday. What day will you be getting there?

[JPA]

I will be at the GP with Gus Schade and John Wiley. We're going to arrive sometime Thursday afternoon/evening and definitely get in on some of the side events (like the last chance GP trials) before the insanity of the GP on Saturday. What day will you be getting there?

I will fly on Thursday and play trials on Friday. Guess I'll see you guys there!

[i_b_TRUE]

I will fly on Thursday and play trials on Friday. Guess I'll see you guys there!

Hey I'll be there also for the gpt... I'll see you guys there as well.

Jpa and final decision on the 2 last slots ?

[i_b_TRUE]

Being from NJ I would say we need to worry about DnT... Very popular in the area

[JPA]

Jpa and final decision on the 2 last slots ?

Not made yet. Still got time until Saturday morning. :tongue:

[Unassigned]

Convinced Gus to run Volcanic Fallout and a single Echoing Truth. Will report back after a few rounds.

[i_b_TRUE]

Convinced Gus to run Volcanic Fallout and a single Echoing Truth. Will report back after a few rounds.

3-3 at GP 😐

I'll give more I insight later... Rough day with mulligans... Also wana make a lot of SB changes

[i_b_TRUE]

2nd place at GPT Friday at GPNJ...

Rd1. W 2-0 vs Reanimator
Rd2. W 2-0 vs Burn
Rd3. W 2-1 vs Miracles
Rd4. W 2-0 vs MUD
Finals. L 0-2 vs Lands (one of the best matchups but had to mulligan both games)

GP

Rd1. W 2-0 vs Storm
Rd2. L 1-2 vs Landstill
Rd3. L 1-2 vs Dark Maverick (G3 mull to 4 even though I had a chance to win it with a great t1 ponder, but he had SB thoughtseize)
Rd4. W 2-0 vs Nic Fit
Rd5. W 2-1 vs UR Delver
Rd6. L 1-2 vs DnT

I played very well and had a sweet play vs UR Delver to win the game, I had Defense Grid and Sneak Attack out facing down 2 swiftspears and elemental tokens for lethal on his turn... i played by second Defense Grid, and I dazed it to bounce my tapped volcanic to replay the land to Sneak in Griselbrand to stay alive and ponder next turn to find Emrakul for the win,

I did have a long Friday night and didnt get to sleep until 2am :mad:
I think i will cut the x1 DTT and add a second Misdirection MB... SB needs some work... Blood Moon seems to be on the decline in the meta... not to sure. I do like Pithing Needle vs DnT

[CabalTherapy]

JPA went from being 3-2 to an awesome 13-2 @GPNJ. Congratulations to Berlin's one and only SneakShow player.

[GoblinZ]

JPA went from being 3-2 to an awesome 13-2 @GPNJ. Congratulations to Berlin's one and only SneakShow player.

Does he make top 16 with that record? really awesome, contratulations to JPA!

[CabalTherapy]

Does he make top 16 with that record? really awesome, contratulations to JPA!

Yes. 13th place.

[i_b_TRUE]

Yes. 13th place.

Congrats JPA! I think you were in my pod for the GPT #6 on Friday... I saw when you lost to DNT but wasnt't sure if it was you... I made the finals but lost to Lands :frown:

[JPA]

Thanks guys. I will write more later.

[GoblinZ]

Thanks guys. I will write more later.

Besides expexcting your report, I am really curious about your final decision about playing one dig and fire/ice and how it performs for you.

And I would also like to know if misdirection is worth playing in current meta, I personally doubt it but I want to know your idea about it. Thank you.

[i_b_TRUE]

Besides expexcting your report, I am really curious about your final decision about playing one dig and fire/ice and how it performs for you.

And I would also like to know if misdirection is worth playing in current meta, I personally doubt it but I want to know your idea about it. Thank you.

Misdirection acts as another FoW mainly (extra counterspell)

[2moon1]

I finished 10-5 at the GP with JPA's list with the flex spots being 1 intuition and 1 overmaster. They were both very good throughout the day.

[JPA]

I don't know yet if I'll write a full report, can't remember all of the details.

My matchups, however, were:

Rd. 1 BUG Delver 2-1 W
Rd. 2 Painter 2-0 W
Rd. 3 UWR Delver 0-2 L
Rd. 4 Infect 2-0 W
Rd. 5 Manaless Dredge 0-2 L
Rd. 6 UR Delver 2-1 W
Rd. 7 Miracles 2-0 W
Rd. 8 Elves 2-0 W
Rd. 9 Goblins 2-1 W

Rd. 10 Burn 2-0 W
Rd. 11 BUG Delver 2-1 W
Rd. 12 UWR Stoneblade 2-1 W
Rd. 13 Dredge 2-0 W
Rd. 14 bUrg Delver 2-0 W
Rd. 15 UWR Delver 2-1 W

When I'm back home I might write the report, or at least a little bit about my card choices, matchups, etc.

[GoblinZ]

Misdirection acts as another FoW mainly (extra counterspell)

Oh sure I know that obviously, it is not only a pseudo fow but it shines against hymns...

what I mean is if in the post KTK meta, misdirection is as efficient as it was before, with bug variant is on the decline.

@JPA you dodged DNT all the weekend, haha.

[CabalTherapy]

I don't know yet if I'll write a full report, can't remember all of the details.

My matchups, however, were:

Rd. 1 BUG Delver 2-1 W
Rd. 2 Painter 2-0 W
Rd. 3 UWR Delver 0-2 L
Rd. 4 Infect 2-0 W
Rd. 5 Manaless Dredge 0-2 L
Rd. 6 UR Delver 2-1 W
Rd. 7 Miracles 2-0 W
Rd. 8 Elves 2-0 W
Rd. 9 Goblins 2-1 W

Rd. 10 Burn 2-0 W
Rd. 11 BUG Delver 2-1 W
Rd. 12 UWR Stoneblade 2-1 W
Rd. 13 Dredge 2-0 W
Rd. 14 bUrg Delver 2-0 W
Rd. 15 UWR Delver 2-1 W

When I'm back home I might write the report, or at least a little bit about my card choices, matchups, etc.

Now that is what I call diversity of MUs. Awesome run. Once more it becomes so evident in Legacy to play one deck and master it instead of switching stuff from tournament to tournament.

[Polishguy00]

Nice job, JPA. I was happy to see that.

I don't see why a novice in modern Magic terms (played from 1994-2000, but only back since October of last year) like myself would write a long report on a 4-3 scrub out, but I was happy with most of my play. Made a couple sideboarding mistakes. Overall, my first GP was a blast and realized how much there is still to learn, but also was happy about feeling like I was holding my own as a player.

In general, my list worked well except for Dig Through Time. I will be putting 2 Spell Pierce back in if this result continues. Fire/Ice over-performed and having the 9th main board enabler seemed good for me as well.

My final sideboard of 3 Pyroclasm, 2 Grafdigger's Cage, 2 Defense Grid, 2 Through the Breach, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Pyroblast, 1 Boseiju, 1 Shattering Spree worked out. I may remove the 2nd Through the Breach for something else, though.

Just for reference:
R1: UWRb Stoneblade L0-2, Bricked in G1 on a Dig Through Time, needing a monster to win.
R2: Burn, W2-0 I love Griselbrand.
R3: UWR Stoneblade, W2-0 Ran him out of answers.
R4: ANT, L0-2, He was able to win on T3 both games. G1 Had Sneak Attack out on turn two on draw with Griselbrand waiting, but he was able to find line of play win.
R5: Merfolk, L1-2, Each deck won when on the play.
R6: UR Delver, W2-0, This was the highlight match for me. Spent more time shuffling than playing.
R7: MUD W2-1, Had a fun sequence of turns at the end that involved Shattering Spree, Echoing Truth and just enough mana for Through the Breach Emrakul with him right at 15.

Happy to reach over .500 in first GP.

[Norm]

Grats JPA! I wish I knew that was you, I'd have said hello.

[Unassigned]

Congrats on 13th, JPA!

Since I missed any byes, I ran the 3rd GP Trial and ended up getting flooded in the finals against D&T. Ended up grinding my way Day One to a 7-1-1 record. Day Two, I severely bombed the first three rounds, but was able to win out the final three and squeak into the cash cutoff at 217th.


Rd. 1 Tribal/Lord Elves (Non-Combo) 2-0
Rd. 2 Dredge 2-0
Rd. 3 UR Delver 2-0
Rd. 4 Burn 2-0
Rd. 5 Esper Deathblade 1-2
Rd. 6 4c Zoo 2-0
Rd. 7 UR Delver 2-0
Rd. 8 Death & Taxes 2-1
Rd. 9 Death & Taxes 1-1-1

Rd. 10 Miracles 0-2
Rd. 11 UWR Delver 1-2
Rd. 12 Esper Stoneblade 1-2
Rd. 13 UWR Stoneblade 2-1
Rd. 14 UR Delver 2-0
Rd. 15 UWR Stoneblade 2-1

Had a great time at my first GP and even had one of our group barely miss Top 8 (MUD player beat him in the 15th round to knock him out of Top 8 contention and ended up in 23rd place).

[JPA]

I am really curious about your final decision about playing one dig and fire/ice and how it performs for you.

The split worked out great for me. I played 2 Fire//Ice in the trials on friday and they definitely won me some games against Death and Taxes and UR Delver. However, I wanted some more late-game power and at least 1 more cantrip, so I added the best cantrip and late-game card in the format (DTT) and figured that it would help me find the 1 Fire // Ice if I ever really needed it (for example against in G1 against D&T with Revoker+Karakas) while also finding the needed combo pieces later on in the game.

Misdirection was a decent card, as always, even though the abscence of Hymn to Tourach in the current metagame probably makes it a little worse. One funny situation I had come up was this:

Miracles-player: Vendilion Clique
me: Dig Through Time
Miracles-player: Force of Will
me: Misdirect your Force of Will to your Vendilion Clique

That was pretty nice. :tongue:

Other than that, Blue Elemental Blast, Pyroclasm and Defense Grid were probably the best cards in the sideboard. Blue Blast countered a crucial Imperial Recruiter against Painter (he had Tormod's Crypt out and would have Grindstoned me next turn) as well as countless Red Elemental Blasts. With Byes I might have played something else in that slot, but I expected a lot of red decks in the first rounds.
The whole sideboard felt pretty well-rounded, every single card had its use over the 15 rounds.

Dodging D&T felt pretty good, even though I enjoy playing that matchup; it's always close and with maindeck Fire as well as a loaded sideboard not as lopsided as most people think. I'm actually happier that I didn't have to play Reanimator, which is the matchup I'm least comfortable playing.

Also a big shoutout to all of my opponents, very nice people without exception, as well as to SCG for running a great tournament. I will definitely come back to the US for more, at the latest in February for the Pro Tour.

[Ancestral]

JPA congratz on your finish !! but fire/ice main deck is for possible hatebaears oh turn down de clock of UR delver for example? also, how you feel about all containment priests around? i m just curios to see if it affects show and tell that much as expected.

[JPA]

JPA congratz on your finish !! but fire/ice main deck is for possible hatebaears oh turn down de clock of UR delver for example? also, how you feel about all containment priests around? i m just curios to see if it affects show and tell that much as expected.

Yes, that's what Fire//Ice is there for. It can also tap a Karakas EOT to be able to Sneak Attack in Griselbrand (Emrakul gets around Karakas anyway) or do other shenanigans.

Containment Priest is mostly a 1-3 of sideboard card in decks like Death and Taxes, UWR Delver/Miracles/Control or Esper Blade. Those are matchups where you board in Pyroclasm anyway (except Miracles), so it doesn't really change anything.

[GoblinZ]

Yes, that's what Fire//Ice is there for. It can also tap a Karakas EOT to be able to Sneak Attack in Griselbrand (Emrakul gets around Karakas anyway) or do other shenanigans.

Containment Priest is mostly a 1-3 of sideboard card in decks like Death and Taxes, UWR Delver/Miracles/Control or Esper Blade. Those are matchups where you board in Pyroclasm anyway (except Miracles), so it doesn't really change anything.

Thank you for your detailed reply, JPA. Dig through time can find fire/ice if necessary, which seems really decent. And since Containment Priest has flash, pyroclasm may be too late to deal with it, which thus makes fire/ice much better in this situation.

[dcosiem]

Thoughts on Treasure Cruise

Has anyone thought of using Treasure Cruise in this deck and how many? I'm consider trying it out, but I wonder if anyone has already tried it, and what they think of it so far? It's pretty powerful right?

[Unassigned]

Thoughts on Treasure Cruise

Has anyone thought of using Treasure Cruise in this deck and how many? I'm consider trying it out, but I wonder if anyone has already tried it, and what they think of it so far? It's pretty powerful right?

We are a combo deck. Drawing a random 3 isn't as powerful as cherry-picking 2 out of the top 7. This was discussed some pages back, maybe 3-5.

[MGB]

Question: I've seen much less of this deck both in person and on MTGO.

Is the new Post-Khans metagame more hostile to this deck? Is Sneak'n'Show no longer a Tier 1 strategy?

Is it even worth building this deck going forward?

[JPA]

Question: I've seen much less of this deck both in person and on MTGO.

Is the new Post-Khans metagame more hostile to this deck? Is Sneak'n'Show no longer a Tier 1 strategy?

Is it even worth building this deck going forward?

The metagame is a very good one for Sneak and Show, since people play less counters maindeck than ever before. UR Delver replacing BUG Delver as THE deck to beat is also very convenient.

It's definitely worth building the deck and I don't know what makes you believe otherwise.

[GodsAreShining]

Congrats to JPA for results! Can i ask you what are your sideboarding plan against the various mu you have found at gp
Thanks!

[Ice1590]

Grats to JPA! Im interested too in your sideboarding especially vs heavy discard deck and ur delver 😁

[JPA]

Remember that these numbers might not be 100 % how I actually boarded in the GP, since I will often adjust numbers depending on any unexpected cards they bring in against me. Also, please don't take this advice as gospel, as there are many different valid sideboarding strategies with this deck.

BUG Delver
+2 Blood Moon, +1 Pyroblast / +1 REB (the new lists play more blue spells like Treasure Cruise and Stifle/Spell Pierce)
-1 Gitaxian Probe, -2 Force of Will, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Painter
+1 Blue Elemental Blast, +1 Echoing Truth, +2 Through the Breach (if you see Phyrexian Revoker you probably want Pyroclasm too)
-3 Gitaxian Probe on the play / -3 Spell Pierce on the draw, -1 Mountain

UWR Delver
+2 Defense Grid, +2 Blood Moon, +1 Blue Elemental Blast, +1 REB / +1 Pyroblast, +3 Pyroclasm
-4 Force of Will, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, -3 Spell Pierce, -1 Dig Through Time, -1 Gitaxian Probe ; boarding out 3 Gitaxian Probe instead of 1 DTT and 1 Emrakul or leaving in the Spell Pierces is also possible, depending on your playstyle.

Infect
+2 Blood Moon, +1 REB / +1 Pyroblast, +3 Pyroclasm
-1 Mountain, -1 Dig Through Time, -2 Force of Will, -1 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, -1 Misdirection

UR Delver
+3 Pyroclasm, +2 Defense Grid, +1 Blue Elemental Blast, +1 REB / +1 Pyroblast, +1 Echoing Truth
-4 Force of Will, -3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Mountain, -1 Dig Through Time

Miracles
+2 Defense Grid, +1 REB / +1 Pyroblast, +1 Echoing Truth, +2 Through the Breach, +1 Blue Elemental Blast
-1 Mountain, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, -1 Fire // Ice, -3 Gitaxian Probe, -2 Lotus Petal ; this can be adjusted depending on the Miracles-build you're facing and I can definitely understand if you feel the need to leave in all three Probes and board out more Petals / 1-2 Show and Tells instead.

Elves
+3 Pyroclasm, +1 Echoing Truth, +2 Grafdigger's Cage
-1 Dig Through Time, -1 Mountain, -1 Misdirection, -3 Gitaxian Probe

Goblins
+3 Pyroclasm, +1 Echoing Truth, +1 Blue Elemental Blast, +2 Through the Breach
-1 Misdirection, -3 Spell Pierce, -1 Dig Through Time, -2 Gitaxian Probe

Burn
+1 Blue Elemental Blast, +1 Echoing Truth, +2 Pyroclasm, +2 Through the Breach
-3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Mountain, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, -1 Dig Through Time

UWR Stoneblade
Depends on the build. Against the control-version I would board similarly as against Miracles, against the more aggressive version more as against UR Delver.

Dredge
+2 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Echoing Truth, +3 Pyroclasm
-1 Misdirection, -3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Mountain, -1 Dig Through Time

on the play I might also board in Red- and maybe even Blue-Blast effects.

bUrg Delver
+2 Defense Grid, +2 Blood Moon, +1 Blue Elemental Blast, +1 Pyroblast / +1 REB
-3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Dig Through Time, -2 Force of Will, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

As you can see, I used every sideboard card throughout the Grand Prix, which confirms me in my sideboard-building decisions. ;-)

[Ice1590]

Thanks i rlly like your sideboarding plan! Actually im playing both version of show ans tell (omnitell and sneak) but i dont know what is bettere in the current meta xD your opinion?

[JPA]

Actually im playing both version of show and tell (omnitell and sneak) but i dont know what is better in the current meta xD your opinion?

Until the format is 70 % Containment Priest decks I see no reason to play Omnitell over Sneak & Show.

[JPA]

Nick Loiacano is currently in the semifinals at SCGATL with a very nice list. :wink:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=76809

[Ice1590]

So is better playing omnitell when priest become more present in the meta...

[KjU]

So is better playing omnitell when priest become more present in the meta...

Depends on what "more present" means exactly, but C. Priest does absolutely nothing against omnitell. As mentioned earlier omnitell is a little too slow in the current meta, so either you play SneakNShow and occasionally loose to a priest or you make your omnitell deck faster and a little less consistent.

Hope that helped :)

[GoblinZ]

Have u ever seen Brad Nelson‘s player’s championship decklist?

I know it is a highly metagamed list, but does Omniscience in the sb make sense combating Containment Priest, DnT or even Reanimator and mirror?

SNT into Omniscience into Emmy seems game over while regardless of what they may put in.

[dcosiem]

Have u ever seen Brad Nelson‘s player’s championship decklist?

I know it is a highly metagamed list, but does Omniscience in the sb make sense combating Containment Priest, DnT or even Reanimator and mirror?

SNT into Omniscience into Emmy seems game over while regardless of what they may put in.

I've done that to so many opponents on cockatrice that yes you are right it's effective. I mean if you truly are seeing a lot of death and taxes in your meta, it's better to say to main deck omniscience as 1 or 2 at least to give yourself a higher chance to win the first game.

Containment Priest is a 2/1 vanilla creature. Just pyroclasm the bitch.

[trolliver]

Containment Priest is a 2/1 vanilla creature. Just pyroclasm the bitch.


That quote LOL

SaS seems so much fun to play. Does not deserve all the hate that it gets!

[JPA]

As written many times before, Omniscience will win you some games you would otherwise lose, but will be a dead card a larger amount of times. I would rather play a flexible card like Fire // Ice or swap to Omnitell altogether if I expect a lot of Containment Priests.

I will spend the next month testing and tuning my GPNJ list for SCG Indy, which I will attend since it's conveniently taking place on the weekend before Pro Tour Washington. Will be my first SCG Open and the new 2-day-format with huge payout seems like a lot of fun. :cool:

[i_b_TRUE]

JPA, do you have a recent list you could share? I've been playing a ton of 1v1 edh (french) and been out of the legacy format a while. Planning to attend SCG NJ in 2 weeks. thanks!

[JPA]

JPA, do you have a recent list you could share? I've been playing a ton of 1v1 edh (french) and been out of the legacy format a while. Planning to attend SCG NJ in 2 weeks. thanks!

Not yet, really. I still think my GPNJ list is a fine choice, but right now I'm tinkering with some interesting innovations and old favorites. I'll tell you about it once I find something worth sharing.

[Polishguy00]

Not yet, really. I still think my GPNJ list is a fine choice, but right now I'm tinkering with some interesting innovations and old favorites. I'll tell you about it once I find something worth sharing.

I am also trying to figure out a better version for the current state of the metagame, usually playing around with the slots that I have Fire/Ice and Misdirection, what used to be Intuition, whatever. I like tinkering with those deck slots and coming up with any idea, no matter how bad. Flusterstorm has been good there, lately, too.

Do you think Telepathy has any value? Sure it might only be FOW pitch if you see it turn 3-4-5, but we have ways to avoid that problem. I just think perfect information can make things easier with all the white running around.

Do you feel it is time for the Leyline of Sanctity sideboard, removing Blood Moon? I'm pretty convinced on 4 Pyroclasm, 3 Leylines and 3 Defense Grid to begin the SB. Of course, being heavily into the Defense Grid may already invalidate my Telepathy idea.

Again, I am only a year into playing the deck, but I would appreciate your thoughts.

[JPA]

Do you think Telepathy has any value? Sure it might only be FOW pitch if you see it turn 3-4-5, but we have ways to avoid that problem. I just think perfect information can make things easier with all the white running around.

Do you feel it is time for the Leyline of Sanctity sideboard, removing Blood Moon? I'm pretty convinced on 4 Pyroclasm, 3 Leylines and 3 Defense Grid to begin the SB. Of course, being heavily into the Defense Grid may already invalidate my Telepathy idea.


Probe is much better than Telepathy, it's free AND it replaces itself.

Leyline was o.k. during the Jund / Shardless BUG meta, due to their massive amount of discard (+Liliana). I see no reason to run them at the moment and am curious why you think it might be time for Leyline again.

[Polishguy00]

Probe is much better than Telepathy, it's free AND it replaces itself.

Leyline was o.k. during the Jund / Shardless BUG meta, due to their massive amount of discard (+Liliana). I see no reason to run them at the moment and am curious why you think it might be time for Leyline again.

I appreciate the response, though I was thinking about running Telepathy with the Probes, providing 6-7 ways to get perfect information. I could still use the Probes to move through the deck if Telepathy was already out. I haven't found much besides Fire/Ice in the 3-5 slots I move around that has been consistently good in my games, though Flusterstorm has gotten the closest, IMO. Just wanted to throw something else to try even if it probably was de-bunked pages and pages ago.

With the Leylines, I missed something pretty obvious when posting previously. Locally, there is more Storm than normal. While it is around more than normal in the current meta, I am surely skewed by the prevalence in a small-ish local LGS playgroup. Without a chance to play in a large setting until March, the recent stuff has been small groups and a lot of turn 2s with rare fizzles. I've also run into a lot of it on MTGO, so probably just on a weird run of match-ups. For instance, I cannot remember when I last saw U/R Delver.

[Deckerator]

Hey im very new to this thread. Have you already done some experiences against Containment Priest?
Why isn't this deck as popular as it was some month ago?

I have watched Brad Nelson at the SCG player’s championship and i like Omniscience in the sb.
Now i collect more experiences with this deck :)

[GoblinZ]

I appreciate the response, though I was thinking about running Telepathy with the Probes, providing 6-7 ways to get perfect information. I could still use the Probes to move through the deck if Telepathy was already out. I haven't found much besides Fire/Ice in the 3-5 slots I move around that has been consistently good in my games, though Flusterstorm has gotten the closest, IMO. Just wanted to throw something else to try even if it probably was de-bunked pages and pages ago.

With the Leylines, I missed something pretty obvious when posting previously. Locally, there is more Storm than normal. While it is around more than normal in the current meta, I am surely skewed by the prevalence in a small-ish local LGS playgroup. Without a chance to play in a large setting until March, the recent stuff has been small groups and a lot of turn 2s with rare fizzles. I've also run into a lot of it on MTGO, so probably just on a weird run of match-ups. For instance, I cannot remember when I last saw U/R Delver.

Don’t rely on leyline against Storm, I can tell you as a player usually playing both sides...

they can just land a swarm, attack you, go for Ad Nauseam, drawing bunch of cards and bounce your leyline to kill you. Also mulligan for leyline is not worth, drawing leyline natrually is bad, multiple leylines in the open hand are terrible...

[Unassigned]

Hey im very new to this thread. Have you already done some experiences against Containment Priest?
Why isn't this deck as popular as it was some month ago?

I have watched Brad Nelson at the SCG player’s championship and i like Omniscience in the sb.
Now i collect more experiences with this deck :)

Combo decks in general are better positioned right now, with the onset of UR Delver and the soft permission spells. The reason that ANT and Reanimator are making such a big showing is that they have a bit more consistency and tend to go off faster than the Show decks.