Metagame choices with unlimited funds?

[Vastros]

Well for a bit of background:

I've loved legacy for about 4 years now. I start building a well placing deck slowly buying the pieces. I would get all the "budget" cards (<20 per card) and always ended up getting bored with the deck being proxied or frustrated with the fact I would have another $2000 just on lands + 5 cards. I ended up going from U/W stoneblade down to having a few budget decks. Dredge, Merfolk, Elves!, You get the picture. Well with 2 decks stolen and one deck sold for bills (I love my cardboard crack, but not enough to go homeless), I'm sitting here frustrated with two or three decks sitting unfinished (ANT, U/R Delver, and Reanimator).

In january I'm going to have about a 2.5/3k budget for magic due to fortunate events and having got the rest of my finances on track.

I've been reading up on the metagame and it seems to me that with the rise of TNN decks, combo or U/W/x stoneblade seems the best fit to enter the meta. I'm lucky enough to live in the Twin Cities (MN) and we have a fantasticly diverse metagame here. Depending on the shop you go to it is similiar to SCG opens, or a nice 500-1000 "budget" meta.

My current stances on combo and stoneblade:

I love stoneblade. I've loved it since standard. Esper and U/W/r Delver have caught my eye. To my understanding the two really are a difference in control/aggro?
Combo/storm: I recently started playing ANT (but have a background in Elves! and Hightide) and I've just gotten bored in fishbowling it. It seems very linear, am I playing it wrong, or is TES more what I'm looking for and havent tried it yet? Snt is apparently still the autowin but I hear its a "talentless" deck, and very boring.

Whatever I get I basically don't want to be screwed metawise. This is legacy and "all decks are viable" but at the same point I don't want to go in and have a lot of 30-70 matchups simply because TNN and the meta being full of decks that cause a lot of decks going 30-70.

Maybe I'm talking out my ass, but just my observations, What would be the best meta choice right now?

[Deadpool09]

Well for a bit of background:

I've loved legacy for about 4 years now. I start building a well placing deck slowly buying the pieces. I would get all the "budget" cards (<20 per card) and always ended up getting bored with the deck being proxied or frustrated with the fact I would have another $2000 just on lands + 5 cards. I ended up going from U/W stoneblade down to having a few budget decks. Dredge, Merfolk, Elves!, You get the picture. Well with 2 decks stolen and one deck sold for bills (I love my cardboard crack, but not enough to go homeless), I'm sitting here frustrated with two or three decks sitting unfinished (ANT, U/R Delver, and Reanimator).

In january I'm going to have about a 2.5/3k budget for magic due to fortunate events and having got the rest of my finances on track.

I've been reading up on the metagame and it seems to me that with the rise of TNN decks, combo or U/W/x stoneblade seems the best fit to enter the meta. I'm lucky enough to live in the Twin Cities (MN) and we have a fantasticly diverse metagame here. Depending on the shop you go to it is similiar to SCG opens, or a nice 500-1000 "budget" meta.

My current stances on combo and stoneblade:

I love stoneblade. I've loved it since standard. Esper and U/W/r Delver have caught my eye. To my understanding the two really are a difference in control/aggro?
Combo/storm: I recently started playing ANT (but have a background in Elves! and Hightide) and I've just gotten bored in fishbowling it. It seems very linear, am I playing it wrong, or is TES more what I'm looking for and havent tried it yet? Snt is apparently still the autowin but I hear its a "talentless" deck, and very boring.

Whatever I get I basically don't want to be screwed metawise. This is legacy and "all decks are viable" but at the same point I don't want to go in and have a lot of 30-70 matchups simply because TNN and the meta being full of decks that cause a lot of decks going 30-70.

Maybe I'm talking out my ass, but just my observations, What would be the best meta choice right now?
My opinion is go either rug delver, or esper stoneblade. These 2 deck are not going anywhere for a loooong time. They have a proven record of being good in any meta, especially esper stone blade. With rug delver, you're attacking their mana base while constantly applying pressure, with soft counters for back up. You're looking to out tempo your oppenent each turn. Tempo is a game concept and rug delver is the undisputed king of tempo decks. With esper stone blade, you have a bunch of different angles to attack your opponents with. Depending on how you build it, ( there's a bunch of different stone blade builds) you can have game vs any meta. You have acces to counters, discards, spot removal, the best walker ever, and now tnn. The biggest upside is our playing the colors blue white (and black) which mean you have a very versatile sideboard options. I, personally made a uw stoneblade deck a year ago and I never regretted it. The colors themselves are a good investment. You can transition to other decks easily, plus with stoneblade has a lot of different variations so you're not gonna get bored with it. Plus with smart trading and or buying, you're on a spend less than 3 k on on of these decks. Never ever pay scg price on the high dollar cards. eBay and forums will help you get the cards that you need for less.

[Grand Superior]

A couple of things on your stance (all in my opinion):

1. You're right, Blade Control and UWR Delver are different Stoneforge Mystic decks. Blade Control is a control deck at heart - providing answers to threats until it gets to the midgame and lands an unanswerable Jace, Stoneforge, or True-Name Nemesis. UWR Delver is a Tempo deck that aims to provide early pressure and disruption but has a bit more lategame than other tempo decks thanks to SFM and TNN.

2. ANT isn't as linear as you might think. The deck wins primarily with Past and Flames and tutor-chaining. Contrary to popular belief, Ad Nauseam is actually the weakest of the engines in that deck (despite being the deck's namesake). TES may just seem like it has more options and lines of play thanks to Burning Wish and the wishboard, but both decks are quite complex in their own rights and both require a fundamentally different method of play to do well with. TES is more likely to act like Belcher and win on turn one/assemble a Goblin horde on turn one while ANT takes its time and sculpts and disrupts into an unbeatable storm turn.

3. Show and Tell is intuitive and simple, but it isn't talentless. People just consider it talentless because it has a relatively linear gameplan and can just rip a Show and Tell and win. Using cantrips and fetchlands effectively is still a skill in itself, and its very easy to durdle your way into nothing and just lose.

For some suggestions, I recommend reading Bob Huang/akatsuki's December 2013 metagame analysis article on Channel Fireball:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/december-2013-legacy-metagame-analysis/

It has some good analysis on the best positioned decks right now and where to look into moving forward.

Given what you already have/what you've got experience with, I recommend looking into Canadian Threshold/RUG Delver (you've already got some pieces thanks to UR Delver) and Esper Stoneblade (You've got UW Stoneblade experience). Both seem to have some staying power moving forward.

[Darkenslight]

BUY ALL OF THE DECKS! :cool:

But on a more serious note, I would aim to get a playset of each dual and fetch first, then branch out into obtaining decks. The first goals should be an aggro, a control and a combo deck, and for an unlimited budget, I would look into LED combo, such as ANT or TES for your primary combo deck, Miracles or Esper for control, and RUG and BUG Delver for your 'aggro' deck.

EDIT: for a more creature-based combo deck, I'd look towards Elves!, and for an alternative to the Delver lists, perhaps look at Merfolk or Death & Taxes.

[Megadeus]

I would get BUG Staples. BUG has everything at its disposal (other than combo I suppose). You get super control in BUG Still with deeds and walkers, you can get a nice midrange shell like Shardless BUG, and you can get tempo in BUG Delver. Basically any style of fair deck, the BUG shell can support.

[Zombie]

I would get BUG Staples. BUG has everything at its disposal (other than combo I suppose). You get super control in BUG Still with deeds and walkers, you can get a nice midrange shell like Shardless BUG, and you can get tempo in BUG Delver. Basically any style of fair deck, the BUG shell can support.

BUG lands make up at least half the really expensive cards in ANT. You just need a Volcanic and the LEDs. Badlands can be substituted by a Gemstone Mine if necessary.

[Richard Cheese]

TinFins: you'll wish you had less fun.

[ShiftyKapree]

I would go with stoneblade since it's a solid deck and won't be going anywhere. But if I could choose one deck it would be RUG delver, but since you have stuff towards stoneblade I'd go with that it's a solid deck.

[Meekrab]

I think the history of the format suggests that "investing" in any deck that plays ~16 creatures is a bad idea, because Wizards is only too willing to push the power curve when it comes to critters and is probably never going to print YawgWill with flashback or an unrestricted Black Lotus again.

[Megadeus]

TinFins: you'll wish you had less fun.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/asfix/repository/8a25c3920ef15683010ef214f9770177/thumbnail_14438.jpg

[luckme10]

I think the history of the format suggests that "investing" in any deck that plays ~16 creatures is a bad idea, because Wizards is only too willing to push the power curve when it comes to critters and is probably never going to print YawgWill with flashback or an unrestricted Black Lotus again.

Agreed. If you're trying to buy into a deck that you want to last, I would seriously stay away from any goodstuff.dec out there. To put it into perspective, with the exception of dredge, AnT is the only deck that has remained relatively unchanged over the past 5 years, and yet, still produces strong numbers in the hands of a capable pilot.

[Megadeus]

I would go BUG. Get duals, Forces, DRS, Goyfs, Jaces. There. Now you can reasonably build whatever style you want without having to get a pile of staples.

[Stan]

Stay away from S&T, it's a very easy way to cheat any permanent into play, and the bitching about it will get louder. One day, they'll print some flashy 100 CMC uebercreature that eats Emrakuls for breakfast just to make Timmy drool, and you'll see what happened with SotF after vengevine got printed. The bitching about it gets too loud, and the old staple will be sacrificed and banned because they won't touch their expensive new mythic.

[apple713]

do you play to win or play to have fun?

if its fun, then just whatever

if its win then its show and tell

[cheerios]

any delver deck

[Wilkin]

Hmm.,..I'd say BUG Delver.

It has Deathrites and Brainstorms so you are less likely to get mana screwed. And you have access to plenty of TNN hate like Engineered Plague or Golgari Charm. And of course, having Force of Will is nice vs the unfair decks.

[Deadpool09]

Esper color decks, won't go away anytime soon. Playing combo can be mundane, it's repetitive, it wins, but it becomes boring after a while. If you wanna have fun, and still win, and have staying power, play an interactive deck, esper, uw, deathblade, those are in esper colors. Invest in colors you think will not go away soon.

[Vastros]

Thanks for all the amazing feedback everyone!

I narrowed it down to:

Esper Stoneblade, S&T, Tin Fins, and D&T.

I looked at BUG and RUG and didnt... Well they just didnt pop out at me. They look like fantastic decks, they just didnt pull me in.

Now time to read and study primers.


...like I dont do that all day anyways.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

BUY ALL OF THE DECKS! :cool:

But on a more serious note, I would aim to get a playset of each dual and fetch first, then branch out into obtaining decks...

...aka "How to waste money and have no deck available".

I'd build RUG, but well, I'm biased. Maybe I'd build BURG, but the fiddling around with the correct number of duals and fetches, and the DRS set, and this and that... Idk.
RUG is nice becasue it's pretty streamlined and you don't need anything special.
Take any blue fetches you got. Add peeled Trops, Volcs and Wastes. Bring to a boil, then insert gamey Tarmogoyfs. Season with Force of Will and while stirring constantly, flush into the loo.

[Vastros]

Wow! 892 views in just a few days =)

Like I said bad deck, rug just didn't appeal to me. Not a bad deck, just didnt pull me in.

Richard Cheese, Why tin fins over reanimator or SnT?

[Dia_Bot]

I'm quite biased as well but I would pick ANT/TES. If you find ANT to linear I would suggest TES or BW ANT (if you like playing basics/C ritual). But the truth is that once you get to play the deck to a certain level it really isn't all that linear and to play this deck to a fullest you will need to know and use every single trick in the book. The thing I like about the deck is finding those small windows in which you can win and using them leaving your opponent with a though of "how the fuck did I just lose that game..".
This is the reason I have been playing this deck for more than 4 years straight.

But it all depends in what you enjoy in this game. If you love a more aggro control approach like you find in stoneblade decks I would defenitely go for that. Imo stoneblade is here to stay, you will maybe have to change up some cards or sometimes add or remove a color to be optimal for the metagame but in the end these kinds of decks will be viable for a long time I think.

[Rood]

any delver deck

[Dzra]

I would avoid decks with a lot of cards that you won't be able to use elsewhere, such as Sneak Attacks and SNTs. Don't buy into BUG; the deck is one of the more expensive and doesn't put up the results. I think UWR Delver is probably one of the stronger choices. It's probably a toss up between UWR and Esper. Esper is a control deck leaning towards being a midranged deck. UWR is a Delver tempo deck with a Stoneforge late game. Would you rather cast Delvers, Lightning Bolts, and Spell Pierces or Thoughtseizes, Snapcasters, and Jaces? Either deck is a good fit in the meta and, should the meta shift, both will leave you with a plethora of good staples to use in your next deck.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Also, once you'll acquire the staples, it's pretty easy to switch between UWr Miracles and UWR Patriot. I'd say that RiP is very well positioned now when Goyfs and DRS are all over the place.

So, my advice is:
- if you want to save money and save yourself of tinkering, go for Can Thresh. You may upgrade it to BURG later. (But yeah, you wrote you don't like the decks, so...)
- if you wnat to have powerful (though linear) deck that needs lots of decisions and is quite funny, build ANT and TES (of money cards, those differ only in Burning Wishes). Sad thing is that you won't use LEDs, ITs and rites anywhere else then in combo.
- Esper Control. Who would not love to bother himself with control...
- or the UWR doubledeck.

[bjholmes3]

build ANT and TES (of money cards, those differ only in Burning Wishes).

And lands. TES typically runs 3 blue fetches and 2 Underground Seas, whereas ANT runs at least 7 fetches, including 4 Polluted Delta, more duals like Volcanic Island, Tropical Island, Bayou, and Badlands, and even Karakas.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

And lands. TES typically runs 3 blue fetches and 2 Underground Seas, whereas ANT runs at least 7 fetches, including 4 Polluted Delta, more duals like Volcanic Island, Tropical Island, Bayou, and Badlands, and even Karakas.

Karakas is played in both sb, isn't it?
True remark, thouh, I completely forgot about the lands issue.
TES: 2 USea, Volc, 3 Delta (ok, ok, I know...)
ANT: 2 USea, Volc, 4 Delta, then Trop, Bayou, Badlands and 3-4 fetches.. hm, these decks don't really overlap.
Btw, my above post is a perfect example of how the Legacy distorts view: I mean, it isn't completely strange to forget about USD 500 worthy of cards, as long as they are "mere" lands...

[Zombie]

I would avoid decks with a lot of cards that you won't be able to use elsewhere, such as Sneak Attacks and SNTs. Don't buy into BUG; the deck is one of the more expensive and doesn't put up the results. I think UWR Delver is probably one of the stronger choices. It's probably a toss up between UWR and Esper. Esper is a control deck leaning towards being a midranged deck. UWR is a Delver tempo deck with a Stoneforge late game. Would you rather cast Delvers, Lightning Bolts, and Spell Pierces or Thoughtseizes, Snapcasters, and Jaces? Either deck is a good fit in the meta and, should the meta shift, both will leave you with a plethora of good staples to use in your next deck.

Team America should be good, no? And it'd give a solid base to go for Shardless BUG if TNN gets the hammer, and gets you the most expensive part of ANT for the most part. Doesn't seem that bad of an idea to me.

[nedleeds]

I would buy beta duals and other good reserved list cards and make my own deck.

[bjholmes3]

Karakas is played in both sb, isn't it?
True remark, thouh, I completely forgot about the lands issue.
TES: 2 USea, Volc, 3 Delta (ok, ok, I know...)
ANT: 2 USea, Volc, 4 Delta, then Trop, Bayou, Badlands and 3-4 fetches.. hm, these decks don't really overlap.
Btw, my above post is a perfect example of how the Legacy distorts view: I mean, it isn't completely strange to forget about USD 500 worthy of cards, as long as they are "mere" lands...

Right? I lol @ Standard decks and their piddling 2-3 hundred dollar price tags. I could trade my mana base for the entire meta, lol.

So, out of the things you mentioned in your post, I would highly recommend you put together Patriot. For one, tempo decks prey on the format itself, not so much specific decks, so they are as a result good in almost every meta. Furthermore, you get a good number of staples together, making it easier to convert to other delver decks, Death and Taxes, or whatever else you should desire.

[Dzra]

Team America should be good, no? And it'd give a solid base to go for Shardless BUG if TNN gets the hammer, and gets you the most expensive part of ANT for the most part. Doesn't seem that bad of an idea to me.

Looking at the power level of the colors, Team America should be good, but the results usually miss the mark. I'm pretty sure that Lightning Bolt is just as important to the tempo/Delver plan as cards like Daze and Wasteland. Deathrite helps get some reach, but apparently it isn't quite the same. UWR or RUG Delver just put out much better results on average.

If you build UWR Delver, you have the complete mana base for UWr Miracles already, you have a lot of the mana base for Esper, and most of the mana base for RUG. Not to mention you'll have a full set of Wastelands, SFMs, FoWs, Dazes, Plows, Brainstorms, Ponders, Pierces, and Bolts. All of which will be staples in tons of decks for years to come. Even though UWR Delver can use any Blue fetches, I would try to get the full set of Flooded Strands because they can be ported to the most decks.

[say no to scurvy]

Patriot + goyfs/trops. Face it, RUG will always be a tier 1 metagame contender, but if it's not to your liking, then patriot has enough staples (stoneforge, equipment, TNN) that it too will be around for a while.

[Tormod]

Looking at the power level of the colors, Team America should be good, but the results usually miss the mark. I'm pretty sure that Lightning Bolt is just as important to the tempo/Delver plan as cards like Daze and Wasteland. Deathrite helps get some reach, but apparently it isn't quite the same. UWR or RUG Delver just put out much better results on average.

I agree.

This why I'm on bUrg. I rather be greedy and splash red for bolt, than to play tempo without. Deathrite Shaman + Bolt = yummy! So much reach.

[Dragonslayer_90]

I personally think that Team America is a more solid deck than people give credit for. It puts up more good finishes in Europe, which is probably a result of it being more popular there than in the States. My point is that I think what's keeping the deck in Tier 1.5 status in the states is that it's just underplayed because UWR and RUG are just more popular here. We have the some good players of the deck (Dan Signorini most notably, one of the creators of the archetype), but I think tournament variance just pushes the deck down since not enough people play it for it to top 8 more consistently. I know Dan Signorini missed the Top 8 at GP DC on account of tiebreakers and got 9th instead. Another good example of how much people play deck can affect its performance are Storm decks (ANT/ TES) in general. They've always been at least Tier 1.5 in the American meta and ANT in particular seems to put up better results in Europe, which I think is in large part due to the fact that the deck is very popular there. I know we have some damn good storm players in the U.S., but Show and Tell decks just seems to be the more popular combo archetype.