Dark Fire [Punishing Loam Control + Dark Depths Combo]

[klaus]

DARK FIRE

Hey peeps,
I've been brainstorming a lot on Punishing Pox (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27172-Punishing-Pox) lately. Being a die-hard UWx Control freak, tinkering with something outside of my color wheel was quite refreshing :smile: . Eventually my alternative approach turned out to be >20 cards off the OP list, so I figured it'd be best to start my own "lab".
Without further ado, this my current list along with some comments on choices:

4 Chalice of the Void (Chalice @1 is awesome if your deck supports it, period, also Mox Diamond enables turn 1 Chalices)
4 Hymn to Tourach (formerly Smallpox, the deck turned out kind of mana hungry, plus Hymn is stronger VS. Combo/Control, so I switched)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (only CMC1 spell due to Chalice, no real dissynergy since IoK is only really powerful on T1/2)
4 Punishing Fire (core of the deck, initially thought it'd be a decent wincon - turned out it's too slow on its own - hence Dark Stage)
4 Liliana of the Veil (absolute core - discarding land and get it back with LftL or P. Fire feels nice, also TNN)
4 Abrupt Decay (best removal spell in the game, nough said)
3 Life from the Loam (C/A engine, smoothes out Lili's +1, recurs Grove, Wasteland & Dark Stage )
2 Toxic Deluge (used to run Deed, with the addition of Chalice and due to the fact that I needed it primarily to kill critters, those got replaced)
2 Living Wish Recent adition - making Marit Lage happen more frequently and providing some flexibility with my mini wish board
[count: 31]

4 Mox Diamond (beautiful mana fixer, works neatly with 3 LftL, enables T1 Decay, Hymn, Chalice, Loam, T2 Lili)
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland (would love to include #4 but Dark Stage requires more colored land)
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland (could be a danger of cool things --> SB Canonist)
3 Grove of the Burnwillows (went back from 4 to 3)
1 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (vital to obtain BB for Hymn/Lili, get mana out of Dark Depths)
2 Barren Moor (added #2 after going down to 2 Dark Depths)
2 Thespian Stage
2 Dark Depths (Marit gets nicely protected by Chalice)
[count: 29/26/23]
While the land count seems very high at first sight, deducting Mox Diamond and Dark Depths it's just 23 actual mana sources.

SB:
2 Choke (golden against the ever blue meta)
2 Tormod's Crypt (with Chalice, Crypt looks like the strongest gy candidate)
2 Ethersworn Canonist (there is no better Combo hate for this deck, including 1 Scrubland, could be too fancy, but the Moxen make this choice test-worthy for the time being)
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Duress (against Combo Dark Fire needs to interact on turn 1)
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Toxic Deluge

Now feel free to bash!
I'll post some testing results soon.

[MD.Ghost]

First thoughts:

3 Toxic Deluge? - Waste of Maindeck Space with 4 Lilianas, 4 A.Decays and 4 Fires etc.

1 Slot shut be Nether Spirit - not the best beater, but with loam and liliana you can get him very easily. Works also good with the Chalice-Plan, because you can shut down Swords.

Toxic kills only Creatures, so you can (if you want cc3) try 2 Maelstrom Pulse instead to kill most relevant stuff.

[klaus]

First thoughts:

3 Toxic Deluge? - Waste of Maindeck Space with 4 Lilianas, 4 A.Decays and 4 Fires etc.

1 Slot shut be Nether Spirit - not the best beater, but with loam and liliana you can get him very easily. Works also good with the Chalice-Plan, because you can shut down Swords.

Toxic kills only Creatures, so you can (if you want cc3) try 2 Maelstrom Pulse instead to kill most relevant stuff.

Thanks for your feedback!
Deluge is the most recent addition and in fact hasn't been tested yet. I ran EEs in that slot briefly, but cut them when I realized 4 Decays already should be sufficient non-creature removal, plus you find yourself using EE mainly getting rid of creatures anyway.
Deluge used to be a SB spell and is currently part of the MD to really ensure I win against most creatured-based strategies. Between Liliana, IoK, Hymn, Chalice and the Waste lock I feel kind of comfortable against and Combo and Control (also P. Fire) already.
Without Deed or Deluge (with the latter being the much better hate) Swarm Aggro really poses a problem to the MD if we don't get the P. Fire engine running immediately, hence Deluge.
I agree that 3 look excessive on paper alongside P. Fire, Lili and Decay but remember that this deck has zero library manipulation.
Going down to 2 could be correct nevertheless though this highly depends on the given meta.
I don't really like Nether Spirit in non-Smallpox versions. I think I'd rather add another wincon, such as Garruk Relentless / Worm Harvest.
What other wincons come to mind?

[Manroe]

Hey Klaus, I played my punishing pox last night, and I found that a good idea for the extra sideboard slots is worm harvest. A bunch of dudes that can also win the game on the spot vs control. Really would have come in handy for me. Shoot, even Seismic Assault would have been to board in at times.

[klaus]

Hey Klaus, I played my punishing pox last night, and I found that a good idea for the extra sideboard slots is worm harvest. A bunch of dudes that can also win the game on the spot vs control. Really would have come in handy for me. Shoot, even Seismic Assault would have been to board in at times.

Hey Manroe,
thanks again for inspiring me to take a closer look at BGR! :cool:
Funny you would mention WH... I currently run it as a one-of in the MD. It does not convince me as a SB choice though, since G2/3 you will face serious gy hate, while it can singlehandedly swing G1s in our favor.

[Wombo Combo]

No love for Dark Confidant here?

[klaus]

No love for Dark Confidant here?

Considered him once in a while, but ultimately discarded the idea cause he will mostly die the turn he comes down, since he's the only creature. Without Bob however most creature removal will be dead draws my opponents, which I do enjoy.
Also this deck cannot apply any pressure outside of rather conditional Marit Lage, so even if I stick a Bob his lifeloss becomes actually dangerous.

[KristinXX]

- deluge

+ crop rotation


If you decide you want to play creatures hexmage should be top of the list

[klaus]

- deluge
+ crop rotation
If you decide you want to play creatures hexmage should be top of the list

Hey KristinXX, cheers for that suggestion!
Hexmage was in there at some point indeed - actually alongside Living Wish which flows better with Chalice than CR too. Hexmage just as Bob was kind of lackluster, as he mostly got killed right after hitting the battlefield. Living Wish however should see a comeback as a 1/2-of I think and simply replace 1-2 Dark Depths and 0-1 Thespian Stages.

[klaus]

I would play less bad and more good stuff.
Rofl..
Like?

[pfiremc13]

It would be nice to have a grove in the side if you don't draw one so you can wish for it.

Not sure what to cut though.

Worm harvest seems nice with all your lands and diamonds.

[MD.Ghost]

I don't really like Nether Spirit in non-Smallpox versions. I think I'd rather add another wincon, such as Garruk Relentless / Worm Harvest.
What other wincons come to mind?

I think 1 Nether Spirit is a must have slot, because it is only one slot and works from alone. It isn't a real win condition, but will do its work - shock your opponent or planeswalker every turn or block every turn (and also protect liliana).

Other Wincons:
Worm harvest
Gigapede
Vengeful Pharaoh
Garruk Relentless

Sideboard (non Graveyard Stuff):
Bitterblossom
Garruk Relentless
Desecration Demon

[tylerl0706]

This deck looks so sweet! I'm gonna try it out!

Can we try and fit a Raven's Crime in this list somewhere? It is such a powerful card with life from the loam and it can easily be dredged away! Repeatedly playing it in the same turn is just so awesome.

"Cards in hand?"
"3."
"Retrace Raven's Crime"
"Retrace Raven's Crime"
"..."
"Retrace Raven's Crime"

Feels good man. Feels good.

Darkblast is another possibility but there seems to be enough removal as is. But it does see more cards.

I want a Jace killer... like Pulse... but maybe the Punishing Fire is enough. Plus discard and wastelands... yeah.

I know it's bouncing back and forth, but I've had some nice luck with Nether Spirit. That little guy can help kill a jace which is awesome! Along with being something that's almost always constant... except for STPS... but we have Chalice for that!

[MD.Ghost]

I change the following:

Main:
-2 Toxic Deluge
+1 Nether Spirit
+1 Maelstrom Pulse

Sideboard:
-1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (if you have it than play it, but i don't want to spend the money)
+1 Toxic Deluge (2 Total)
-2 Choke
+1 Karakas
+1 Garruk Relentless

[klaus]

This deck looks so sweet! I'm gonna try it out!

Can we try and fit a Raven's Crime in this list somewhere? It is such a powerful card with life from the loam and it can easily be dredged away! Repeatedly playing it in the same turn is just so awesome.
"Cards in hand?"
"3."
"Retrace Raven's Crime"
"Retrace Raven's Crime"
"..."
"Retrace Raven's Crime"
Feels good man. Feels good.
Darkblast is another possibility but there seems to be enough removal as is. But it does see more cards.
I want a Jace killer... like Pulse... but maybe the Punishing Fire is enough. Plus discard and wastelands... yeah.
I know it's bouncing back and forth, but I've had some nice luck with Nether Spirit. That little guy can help kill a jace which is awesome! Along with being something that's almost always constant... except for STPS... but we have Chalice for that!
Glad you like it!
Darkblast and Raven's Crime sure are sexy they don't flow with Chalice though. And Chalice really wins games on its own, which is why I'm hesitant to cut it.
If you face tons of Jaces, which you seem to do :) Dreadbore should be a nice SB choice, but Punishing Fire really goes a long way and will always kill him, if they don't remove a combo piece.

@ MD Ghost:
Cutting Toxic Deluge or MD mass removal in general would only be an option, if Swarm Aggro went extinct. Otherwise the deck will ALWAYS fold to it. Atm I don't think there's a better spell to fill that slot. Heck I even got overrun by DnT the other day. Punishing Grove is nice to keep small hordes in check, but the problem is that many Aggro decks run Wasteland.

Nether Spirit keeps being brought up, so maybe I should give it a shot after all one of these days.

I have also considered Sorin, Lord of Innistrad as a non-gy-based wincon, a singleton Scrubland and 4 Moxen might not be enough though to support him..

[tylerl0706]

Oh yeah, I like who ever said to put Bitterblossom in the side! That card is really strong post board after they bring in the GY hate.

You're prolly right about the Raven's Crime but it might be worth testing.

Speaking of graveyard hate, there seems to be no out to Leyline of the Void. Which really hurts. Granted Rest in Peace is mostly more popular (And we can kill that thing soooo dead), a resolved Leyline is a problem.

I've always wanted to play Toxic Deluge since it came out. Seems really strong!