mugs
01-04-2014, 08:39 PM
Turbo Prison
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuvraT2GSQoqx8y-WUKJkMffgKlcJnnq3sK0VNcBP_A9cRBFZpSQ
Highlighted by Caleb Durwald as the winner of a rogue legacy deck design on Channel Fireball this December not much has been discussed since. The original deck and Caleb’s suggestion are in his article http://www.channelfireball.com/home/legacy-weapon-rogue-squadron/
Some of my take on the deck.
I don’t know if turbo is the right description for this type deck, though it can play fast it’s fundamentally slow prison like. The acceleration while possibly mistaken for Tezz is way different than Tezzeret planeswalker control decks with sol lands and 2cc rocks pumping out fast Chalice of the Void or planeswalker(I find True Name Nemesis has put a big dent in most planeswalkers viability in legacy) rather it seems to enable it to out flank wasteland, spell pierce, daze stuff while accelerating into bigger spells. The prison moniker is fair as the deck aims to resolve creature hate notably Humility that can shut down a significant majority of decks played in legacy. Lastly is the mana base coupled with the draw suite, and tight intuition package that gels with the Mox/ Mana base.
Typical opening hand wants a Mox but doesn’t likely play it till turn 2-4 usually. The deck is somewhat a natural foil to an opponent casting Show and Tell, stacked vs any creature based win condition, benefits from opponents unfamiliarity with deck and/or assuming it is affinity early on. Also, opponents are not expecting a Humility or Supreme Verdict. Card draw enables a cycling like flow of cards – keeping pressure on control and maintaining answers to aggro’s disruption or aggression. When dealing with combo the deck would seem weak, but the thing is most of the major combo decks use creatures as their win condition (almost no chance vs storm based decks). The deck is weak to equipment and planeswalkers, so recognizing deck types and prioritizing limited resources to deal with them is important. Thopter foundry gives some inevitability and is hard to stop main deck. Lastly Wasteland /Life from the loam can be a strong element mid game onwards.
Main Deck (reflecting Calib Durwalds assessment)
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
2 Tree of Tales
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
2 City of Brass
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Humility
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
3 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
Sideboard
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
Matchups: I just went over the current decks to beat in this part and the caveat is: I find my optimism is often too enthusiastic with assessment of the matchups, but the general play assessments are closer.
Death and Taxes: it looks like an easy matchup but it is not, rather it is very difficult but can approach even with a lot of practice. Prison with Darksteel Citadel and Moxes resist having mana development tempo’d and is unlikely vs most decks, but not D&T which contains wastelands, Rishadan, Phyrexian Revoker and Thalia becoming an effective hindrance. Once the deck can reliably utilize 4 mana the tide of play will likely fall towards the prison player. Post Sideboard: Toxic Deluge and a few Pithing needles can stymie their disruption and help speed up Mox Opal
RUG tempo: is a good matchup mana disruption is not very effective they often waste time and their own speed attempting to do so – draw spells or creature hate they can’t counter it all – eventually wiping the board and stabilizing. Looking to get Thopter Foundry online to stay out of burn range. Post board some Krosan Grip can keep most of the decks concerns in control.
UWR Delver: is a good matchup similar to RUG tempo just play around Spell Pierce/Daze and inevitability sets in. Post board Krosan Grips keep any equipment down with sometimes pithing needle. On a side note (sometimes it is not unreasonable to board out Sword of the Meek – it is not overly needed and lets you ignore GY hate like Rest in Peace, because there is typically more than enough artifacts to sacrifice for thopter tokens without the need for recursion)
Blade Control: can vary to the build but generally is a decent matchup especially if they are low on Jace’s– card advantage will overload them. Intuition is key for a recurring wasteland /or Engineer Explosive package. Post board: Pithing needles and some Krosan Grips
Elves: is a good matchup it’s all about speed of creature wipes and eventually resolving a Humility. Post board: an extra Toxic Deluge and some Pithing Needles slows them down and speeds you up.
Jund: is a good matchup barring a well curved disruption/aggro hand by Jund, the prison deck with dig out out from the distruption wipe the board and start cleaning up. Liliana of the Veil is not overly effective but can pressure. Prison is worried about reach via burn, so mid-game Intuition is key for a recurring wasteland /or Thopter package. Post board: a Toxic Deluge, Oblivion Ring and Thopter Foundry help out versus there increased disruption and beatdown attempts.
Sneak Show: is a good matchup – show and tell into a Humility or Ensnaring Bridge is game over, and Oblivion Ring and Karakas are not too shabby either. The real battle is Sneak Attack, and the prison deck tries to resolve a Humility or recurring package for Ensnaring bridge. I have had Show and Tell resolve only to Supreme verdict away a resolved Emrakul. Post board: Pithing Needles on Sneak Attack, Oblivion Rings, and Vendillion Clique – Blood moon often comes in versus Prison but it is mostly not effective enough vs Moxes letting a Oblivion Ring/Krosan Grip remove it if need be. A decent play is to just hold Humility/Oblivion Ring and setup wasteland/Ensnaring Bridge recursion.
Ad nauseam (or most any storm) – almost no chance – even a resolved Chalice is only delaying their win as the prison deck is too slow to capitalize on it. Post Sideboard: why try I think it is better to focus on improving winnable matches.
Miracle control: Ok’ish dependant on the build, but winnable. Jace, the Mind Scupture is bad news and ideally it is nullified with Oblivion Ring. The best option is recurring Engineered Explosives to keep whatever they are doing off the board – Humility will often hider their game plan and they’ll often let it resolve. There is the benefit from control players unfamiliarity and or out draw them. Post board: Pithing Needle on Jace on top, Krosan Grip and Vendillion Clique help.
Shardless BUG: Decent and winnable. The battle winds up being a constant trade as they often have early disruption and can keep up on card parity. Jace, if they have him, is there trump, while BUG is quite vunerable to a wasteland lock. Post board: Toxic Deluge, some Pithing Needles
Maverick: is a decent matchup and getting to 4 mana is important. Keeping Gaddock Teeg off the board and equipment in check is mostly all it takes. I find Engineered Explosives rises in value in this role. Post board: Pithing needles, Toxic Deluge and maybe some Krosan Grip.
Team America: is decent matchup, but hand disruption + counterspells can help them race, ideally a creature wipe and card draw will enable stabilization: Post board: Toxic Deluge, If they run Pernicious Deed its usually lights out for prison with best bet having some form of Darksteel Citadel/Gimmervoid on the board and Intuitioning for Life from the Loam and Academy Ruins.
Some other considerations
Understand how to play vs price of progresses (ie get Thopter on line)
Durwald emphasized Nihil Spell Bomb vs Graveyard decks. I find that too optimistic and often too slow – yes its great, but Dredge will often just recover or therapy it, and Reamimator will counter it, or thoughtsieze. If I felt it was viable I would consider Relic of Progenitus also as working around your own Graveyard removal is not typically a problem. I like Leyline of the Void it is castable and the deck can dig out of a mulligan from oblivion fairly well. The Prison deck does pretty good either way – but the Leyline pitches in vs Opponents playing Opp's all Spells, Lands, and helps with the desperate attempt to interact with storm.
Thopter Combo can close out a game fairly quickly.
My current Alternative:
Oblivion Ring has felt too weak lately and wondering if adding +1 Thopter Foundry/Intuition/Engineered Explosives is better and main decking 1 Pithing Needle over the Chalice of Void since it seems to come in often and assists this deck vs it’s concerns. I am not overly confident Creeping Tarpit (or any manland) is good enough, and might consider just running a better manasource.
Main Deck
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
2 Tree of Tales
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
2 City of Brass
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Humility
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Life from the Loam
3 Intuition
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
3 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
Sideboard
2 Toxic Deluge
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
Thanks for reading any comments welcome
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuvraT2GSQoqx8y-WUKJkMffgKlcJnnq3sK0VNcBP_A9cRBFZpSQ
Highlighted by Caleb Durwald as the winner of a rogue legacy deck design on Channel Fireball this December not much has been discussed since. The original deck and Caleb’s suggestion are in his article http://www.channelfireball.com/home/legacy-weapon-rogue-squadron/
Some of my take on the deck.
I don’t know if turbo is the right description for this type deck, though it can play fast it’s fundamentally slow prison like. The acceleration while possibly mistaken for Tezz is way different than Tezzeret planeswalker control decks with sol lands and 2cc rocks pumping out fast Chalice of the Void or planeswalker(I find True Name Nemesis has put a big dent in most planeswalkers viability in legacy) rather it seems to enable it to out flank wasteland, spell pierce, daze stuff while accelerating into bigger spells. The prison moniker is fair as the deck aims to resolve creature hate notably Humility that can shut down a significant majority of decks played in legacy. Lastly is the mana base coupled with the draw suite, and tight intuition package that gels with the Mox/ Mana base.
Typical opening hand wants a Mox but doesn’t likely play it till turn 2-4 usually. The deck is somewhat a natural foil to an opponent casting Show and Tell, stacked vs any creature based win condition, benefits from opponents unfamiliarity with deck and/or assuming it is affinity early on. Also, opponents are not expecting a Humility or Supreme Verdict. Card draw enables a cycling like flow of cards – keeping pressure on control and maintaining answers to aggro’s disruption or aggression. When dealing with combo the deck would seem weak, but the thing is most of the major combo decks use creatures as their win condition (almost no chance vs storm based decks). The deck is weak to equipment and planeswalkers, so recognizing deck types and prioritizing limited resources to deal with them is important. Thopter foundry gives some inevitability and is hard to stop main deck. Lastly Wasteland /Life from the loam can be a strong element mid game onwards.
Main Deck (reflecting Calib Durwalds assessment)
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
2 Tree of Tales
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
2 City of Brass
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Humility
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
3 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
Sideboard
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
Matchups: I just went over the current decks to beat in this part and the caveat is: I find my optimism is often too enthusiastic with assessment of the matchups, but the general play assessments are closer.
Death and Taxes: it looks like an easy matchup but it is not, rather it is very difficult but can approach even with a lot of practice. Prison with Darksteel Citadel and Moxes resist having mana development tempo’d and is unlikely vs most decks, but not D&T which contains wastelands, Rishadan, Phyrexian Revoker and Thalia becoming an effective hindrance. Once the deck can reliably utilize 4 mana the tide of play will likely fall towards the prison player. Post Sideboard: Toxic Deluge and a few Pithing needles can stymie their disruption and help speed up Mox Opal
RUG tempo: is a good matchup mana disruption is not very effective they often waste time and their own speed attempting to do so – draw spells or creature hate they can’t counter it all – eventually wiping the board and stabilizing. Looking to get Thopter Foundry online to stay out of burn range. Post board some Krosan Grip can keep most of the decks concerns in control.
UWR Delver: is a good matchup similar to RUG tempo just play around Spell Pierce/Daze and inevitability sets in. Post board Krosan Grips keep any equipment down with sometimes pithing needle. On a side note (sometimes it is not unreasonable to board out Sword of the Meek – it is not overly needed and lets you ignore GY hate like Rest in Peace, because there is typically more than enough artifacts to sacrifice for thopter tokens without the need for recursion)
Blade Control: can vary to the build but generally is a decent matchup especially if they are low on Jace’s– card advantage will overload them. Intuition is key for a recurring wasteland /or Engineer Explosive package. Post board: Pithing needles and some Krosan Grips
Elves: is a good matchup it’s all about speed of creature wipes and eventually resolving a Humility. Post board: an extra Toxic Deluge and some Pithing Needles slows them down and speeds you up.
Jund: is a good matchup barring a well curved disruption/aggro hand by Jund, the prison deck with dig out out from the distruption wipe the board and start cleaning up. Liliana of the Veil is not overly effective but can pressure. Prison is worried about reach via burn, so mid-game Intuition is key for a recurring wasteland /or Thopter package. Post board: a Toxic Deluge, Oblivion Ring and Thopter Foundry help out versus there increased disruption and beatdown attempts.
Sneak Show: is a good matchup – show and tell into a Humility or Ensnaring Bridge is game over, and Oblivion Ring and Karakas are not too shabby either. The real battle is Sneak Attack, and the prison deck tries to resolve a Humility or recurring package for Ensnaring bridge. I have had Show and Tell resolve only to Supreme verdict away a resolved Emrakul. Post board: Pithing Needles on Sneak Attack, Oblivion Rings, and Vendillion Clique – Blood moon often comes in versus Prison but it is mostly not effective enough vs Moxes letting a Oblivion Ring/Krosan Grip remove it if need be. A decent play is to just hold Humility/Oblivion Ring and setup wasteland/Ensnaring Bridge recursion.
Ad nauseam (or most any storm) – almost no chance – even a resolved Chalice is only delaying their win as the prison deck is too slow to capitalize on it. Post Sideboard: why try I think it is better to focus on improving winnable matches.
Miracle control: Ok’ish dependant on the build, but winnable. Jace, the Mind Scupture is bad news and ideally it is nullified with Oblivion Ring. The best option is recurring Engineered Explosives to keep whatever they are doing off the board – Humility will often hider their game plan and they’ll often let it resolve. There is the benefit from control players unfamiliarity and or out draw them. Post board: Pithing Needle on Jace on top, Krosan Grip and Vendillion Clique help.
Shardless BUG: Decent and winnable. The battle winds up being a constant trade as they often have early disruption and can keep up on card parity. Jace, if they have him, is there trump, while BUG is quite vunerable to a wasteland lock. Post board: Toxic Deluge, some Pithing Needles
Maverick: is a decent matchup and getting to 4 mana is important. Keeping Gaddock Teeg off the board and equipment in check is mostly all it takes. I find Engineered Explosives rises in value in this role. Post board: Pithing needles, Toxic Deluge and maybe some Krosan Grip.
Team America: is decent matchup, but hand disruption + counterspells can help them race, ideally a creature wipe and card draw will enable stabilization: Post board: Toxic Deluge, If they run Pernicious Deed its usually lights out for prison with best bet having some form of Darksteel Citadel/Gimmervoid on the board and Intuitioning for Life from the Loam and Academy Ruins.
Some other considerations
Understand how to play vs price of progresses (ie get Thopter on line)
Durwald emphasized Nihil Spell Bomb vs Graveyard decks. I find that too optimistic and often too slow – yes its great, but Dredge will often just recover or therapy it, and Reamimator will counter it, or thoughtsieze. If I felt it was viable I would consider Relic of Progenitus also as working around your own Graveyard removal is not typically a problem. I like Leyline of the Void it is castable and the deck can dig out of a mulligan from oblivion fairly well. The Prison deck does pretty good either way – but the Leyline pitches in vs Opponents playing Opp's all Spells, Lands, and helps with the desperate attempt to interact with storm.
Thopter Combo can close out a game fairly quickly.
My current Alternative:
Oblivion Ring has felt too weak lately and wondering if adding +1 Thopter Foundry/Intuition/Engineered Explosives is better and main decking 1 Pithing Needle over the Chalice of Void since it seems to come in often and assists this deck vs it’s concerns. I am not overly confident Creeping Tarpit (or any manland) is good enough, and might consider just running a better manasource.
Main Deck
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
2 Tree of Tales
2 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
2 City of Brass
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Humility
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Life from the Loam
3 Intuition
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
3 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
Sideboard
2 Toxic Deluge
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
Thanks for reading any comments welcome