[Born of the Gods] Spoiler Thread

[Lemnear]

Let's start with the 5 prerelease rares:



Silent Centinel
Creature - Archon (rare)

Flying
Whenever ~ attacks, you may return target enchantment card from your graveyard to the battlefield.

4/6



Mediator of the Ideal
Creature - Sphinx (rare)

Flying
Inspiration - Whenever ~ untaps, reveal the top card of your library. If its an artifact, creature, or land card you may put it onto the battlefield with a manifestation counter on it. It is an enchantment in addition to its other types.

4/5



Devourer of Hope
Creature - Demon (rare)

Flying
, Sacrifice another creature: Regenerate ~.
, Sacrifice two other creatures: Destroy target creature.

6/4



Firestir Dragon
Creature - Dragon (rare)

Flying
: ~ deals 1 damage to target creature. That creature can't block this combat. Activate this ability only if ~ is attacking.

5/4



Wild Devastating Nessian
Creature - Hydra (rare)

Tribute 6 (As this creature enters the battlefield, an opponent of your choice may put 6 +1/+1 counter on it.)
When ~ enters the battlefield, if the tribute wasn't pay, you may have ~ fight another target creature.

6/6

[Lemnear]

Buy-a-Box Promo:


Nefarious Burn - 1RRR - Instant
Nefarious Bun deals 5 points of damage to target creature or planeswalker. If it is your turn, scry 2.


The only Walker in the set:


Kiora, the Crashing Wave - 2UG

Planeswalker — Kiora
+1: Until your next turn, prevent all damage that would be dealt to and dealt by target permanent an opponent controls.
-1: Draw a card. You may play an additional land this turn.
-5: You get an emblem with "At the beginning of your end step, put a 9/9 blue Kraken creature token onto the battlefield."

Loyalty 2

[johanessen]

The only Walker in the set:

Kiora, the Crashing Wave - 2UG

Planeswalker — Kiora
+1: Until your next turn, prevent all damage that would be dealt to and dealt by target permanent an opponent controls.
-1: Draw a card. You may play an additional land this turn.
-5: You get an emblem with "At the beginning of your end step, put a 9/9 blue Kraken creature token onto the battlefield."


Note that has loyalty 2.

[Aggro_zombies]

Good thing I wasn't planning on going to the prerelease because those promos sure as hell aren't motivating me to do so.

EDIT: Interesting to note the promos for this set follow the same pattern as the promos for Theros: the blue one is the best, the white and black ones are conditionally good, the red one is a reasonable body, and the green one is kind of bad.

[Jitse]

Good thing I wasn't planning on going to the prerelease because those promos sure as hell aren't motivating me to do so.

EDIT: Interesting to note the promos for this set follow the same pattern as the promos for Theros: the blue one is the best, the white and black ones are conditionally good, the red one is a reasonable body, and the green one is kind of bad.

I don't agree, I think the white one is clearly the worst. The green one is probably a lot better then you give it credit for a 6 costing 12/12 is big. the black one is the most powerful but also the most expensive the red one is better then the blue since they both need to attack to do something but the red one attacks for more and always does something where the blue one is a big gamble. So I think it's Red --> Blue --> Black --> Green --> White

[joretapo]

Lol big monsters probably useless in legacy the blue one is laregely more powerfull than the others, are they taunting the anti blue community?

[apple713]

~Silent Sentinel is the only one that might see play in legacy. Returning an enchantment from the grave to play is pretty sexy. Even at that its not very good. Its overcosted and in legacy would require reanimator with additional set up. after some thought this set seems pretty terrible.

I'll add that spring leaf drum is still the best card in the set so far.

[Barook]

I'll add that spring leaf drum is still the best card in the set so far.
That's not hard with 7% of the set spoiled.

Nefarious Burn at least somewhat tries to hide the "double the mana cost and effect"-thing that has been going on lately. Would it haven been broken to hit players? It costs tripple R, and for a rare, they could have upped the powerlevel quite a bit. It's not like Lava Axe was broken.

[miguelmatix]

The white sentinel is the best. Could be played in some moat stompy or stax IF the mana cost was 5 or less. This way none of them might get play besides reanimation decks...

Lets see the rest of the set.

[Jitse]

Lol big monsters probably useless in legacy the blue one is laregely more powerfull than the others, are they taunting the anti blue community?

Seriously, these are prerelease promo's this is sealed not legacy. None of these cards are playabel in legacy, no cards that cost 5 or more and that not immediatly win the game once they hit play are playabel in legacy (batterskull costs 2)

[TsumiBand]

That's not hard with 7% of the set spoiled.

Nefarious Burn at least somewhat tries to hide the "double the mana cost and effect"-thing that has been going on lately. Would it haven been broken to hit players? It costs tripple R, and for a rare, they could have upped the powerlevel quite a bit. It's not like Lava Axe was broken.

Yeah, I thought it was a real shame that this spell says "target creature or planeswalker". 5 to the face for 4 is just too good, apparently?

I'm impelled to rehash ye olde "planeswalkers and burn spells are fucking stupid" monologue… but I'll skip the preamble and just say that it is going to generate an amount of RTFC now whenever there's a burn spell if they make a habit of printing burn that applies directly to the planeswalker. They can't print too many of those before they start wondering wtf all those burn redirection rules are actually there for, amirite?

[Looooooooo]

~Silent Sentinel is the only one that might see play in legacy. Returning an enchantment from the grave to play is pretty sexy. Even at that its not very good. Its overcosted and in legacy would require reanimator with additional set up. after some thought this set seems pretty terrible.

I'll add that spring leaf drum is still the best card in the set so far.

Lol after like 5 cards!? Really?!
And especially after the spoiler of promos, which are notably underpowered to not spoil the prerelease and such events...

- L

[Barook]

I'm impelled to rehash ye olde "planeswalkers and burn spells are fucking stupid" monologue… but I'll skip the preamble and just say that it is going to generate an amount of RTFC now whenever there's a burn spell if they make a habit of printing burn that applies directly to the planeswalker. They can't print too many of those before they start wondering wtf all those burn redirection rules are actually there for, amirite?
And they can't even errata old burn spells to target planeswalkers because due interactions which make them untargetable.

[TsumiBand]

And they can't even errata old burn spells to target planeswalkers because due interactions which make them untargetable.

That's fine, they can totally print

Bolt Two
Sorcery :r:

Bolt Two deals 3 damage to target creature, planeswalker or player.

Arguably this is not 'better' than Chain Lightning. There are precious few times when a dedicated burn deck does not consider Chain Lightning's 'drawback' a boon. Ask a Red Mage how they enjoy throwing Chain Lightning back in their opponent's face without losing cards. But there are a ton of intangibles to consider as well, and I know that just uprooting a bunch of rules can be as careless as creating them willy-nilly.

It does begin to beg the question though -- "why does old burn work so much different than this new burn spell" or "why does targeting a creature or a planeswalker with a burn spell have no special rules, but burning a player has all these redirection rules". It really does feel like the only thing they're waiting for is a richer set of tools to supplant the current kludge.

[Barook]

That's fine, they can totally print

Bolt Two
Sorcery :r:

Bolt Two deals 3 damage to target creature, planeswalker or player.

Arguably this is not 'better' than Chain Lightning. There are precious few times when a dedicated burn deck does not consider Chain Lightning's 'drawback' a boon. Ask a Red Mage how they enjoy throwing Chain Lightning back in their opponent's face without losing cards. But there are a ton of intangibles to consider as well, and I know that just uprooting a bunch of rules can be as careless as creating them willy-nilly.

It does begin to beg the question though -- "why does old burn work so much different than this new burn spell" or "why does targeting a creature or a planeswalker with a burn spell have no special rules, but burning a player has all these redirection rules". It really does feel like the only thing they're waiting for is a richer set of tools to supplant the current kludge.
Sure, they could print that, but since it can already damage players, there's no point to include Planeswalkers under the current rules. Maybe if they abolished the current redirection rule, but that would make red suck even more as a color and Planeswalkers even stronger.

[TsumiBand]

Sure, they could print that, but since it can already damage players, there's no point to include Planeswalkers under the current rules. Maybe if they abolished the current redirection rule, but that would make red suck even more as a color and Planeswalkers even stronger.

I'm not talking about 'current rules'. I'm imagining some weird 'in-between' place where they have this collection of burn/other spells that target planeswalkers explicitly, so that by the time they launch a new block which starts the trend of offering new burn spells (Bolt 2.0, followed closely by Shock 2.0, Volcanic Hammer, and so on and so forth, in different blocks or m-something Core Sets, whatever), there is existing Red jank to try and mind the gap for a brief period while new-burn comes trickling in. In fact, according to the BotG spoiler, that new burn is already trickling in, so… yeah.

Look, I understand the arguments against making a change for change's sake when we have a working model for burn redirection to include a card type that was never a consideration when 99% of the burn spells in the game were already printed. And I'm legit not trying to turn the thread into a bitchfest about how planeswalkers are or aren't a giant monkey-patch into the game's previous set of permanents and methods for interacting with other cards. However - and this is of course an opinion, so take it however you like - IMO it's a poor practice to start introducing these spells (damaging spells in particular) that all have different methods for dealing with the same permanents. The fact that Lightning Bolt AND NewBurnSpell interact with planeswalkers - but one is explicit and the other is implicit - is exactly the kind of rules garbage that WotC tries to get rid of lately.

There are two sets of cards for two sets of rules to accomplish the same game action - I'm not talking about "everything is a Time Walk" here, I'm talking about literally casting a red burn spell that deals damage to a planeswalker as part of the spell's actual resolution and rules text. The only reason to even print this card in this way is to introduce the possibility of seeing more burn spells that damage one or more targets but exclude a particular kind. You can't print "[this] deals damage to target player or planeswalker" under the current rules, not because it isn't allowed, but because the rules of the game currently make that a really subversive card to print. For example, giving your permanents shroud becomes meaningless against such a card, under the current rules. Take the rule away, and this card has limited potential to be okay.

In fact -- take the rule away, and now change "target" to "each"! That card should never exist under the current rules because redirection makes it super good against players with walkers, and there isn't even actually a good way to print that card under the current rules without breaking a lot of things or having a shitpot of convoluted text.

So yeah, I mean… again I don't want to derail here, but look at the most recent series of blocks. There are more damage prevention spells that just say "permanent" instead of "creature or player". There are "destroy" spells which target planeswalkers. There's going to be a burn spell that excludes players in favor of planeswalkers. IIRC they weren't even going to print Dreadbore when 'walkers originally came out because they built all these goofy rules up around them, so why bother with targeting them at all? Now I can just Dreadbore a motherfucker, which to me feels like the question of "why bother" is now being applied in reverse internally. I mean given enough cards and time, at some point someone will look at Gatherer and go "there are like 27 different Red spells that target planeswalkers, and we have all these shitty rules on file to fix… what problem, exactly?"

[Aggro_zombies]

I don't agree, I think the white one is clearly the worst. The green one is probably a lot better then you give it credit for a 6 costing 12/12 is big. the black one is the most powerful but also the most expensive the red one is better then the blue since they both need to attack to do something but the red one attacks for more and always does something where the blue one is a big gamble. So I think it's Red --> Blue --> Black --> Green --> White
The green one is a vanilla 12/12, though, and it's only a 12/12 if your opponent lets it be a 12/12. Actually good cards with Punisher-type mechanics have historically given you insane card advantage and/or allowed you to make some decisions to mitigate those of your opponent (see: Gifts, FoF). This card doesn't do either of those things.

Reading the red one again, it actually is better than I gave it credit for. The problem is that red in Theros Sealed is painfully mediocre. Maybe Born of the Gods changes that, but my suspicion is it doesn't, so in that case I think the blue promo edges it out for being in a stronger overall color.

EDIT: I sure hope there's more mechanics in this set than Tribute and whatever Inspiration is supposed to be (my guess is that the relevant bit is making other permanents enchantments for whatever reason). If not, I'm calling it now: Bad Set in a Row #5.

[TsumiBand]

The Green one is Not Great if your opponent has a creature that doesn't give a shit whether or not it fights anything. I'm not sure when a vanilla 6/6 for 6 became "not great", but there it is; if they have no reason to pay Tribute, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a very expensive chump blocker.

Little kids will eff up the Red one because no one ever seems to activate abilities/play spells before they pass priority for blockers. :/

Blue Sphinx is a weird S&T that works with untapping things? Hm.

It's all pretty EDH-y right now. Eh.

[Meekrab]

I'm not sure when a vanilla 6/6 for 6 became "not great", but there it is;
A vanilla six mana creature of just about any size is pretty meh.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Crap, I'm starting to hate the PWs and the rules associated with them more and more and more. I guess time will come when I may throw my Lightning Bolts into garbage can because they won't hurt PWs anymore.
I'd love if Pws were never made. Or, if at least they made them with shroud (cause they're mighty PWs hiding in mist of their knowledge and powaful magick and stuff), so only the creatures may eat them because reasons why powaful magick and hiding in the mist don't work on creatures.
Wow, this game sucks.

EDIT: Otoh, maybe this is the first step before removing the rules' garbage and errating the burn that it targets the PWs. Idk...

[Aggro_zombies]

The Green one is Not Great if your opponent has a creature that doesn't give a shit whether or not it fights anything. I'm not sure when a vanilla 6/6 for 6 became "not great", but there it is; if they have no reason to pay Tribute, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a very expensive chump blocker.
In this block, a 6/6 that fights something is not guaranteed to survive. Theros has several commons that will kill this thing in a fight, especially once we count creatures that have gone Monstrous. Bestow also makes this guy worse: even if you murder their primary guy, then still end up with the Bestow guy, and it's a toss-up whether your Hydra will survive or not. But if they have a dude that you can outright kill with the Hydra, and that dude is important enough, they just give you the 12/12 and chump it for a while. Bestow helps quite a bit with that plan as well.

The problem with this mechanic - and I say this without even seeing more cards with it, because it's kind of baked in to the mechanic - is that it's yet another Way to Make Big Dudes in a block that already has Bestow and Monstrous and Heroic. That Tribute is a Punisher mechanic just guarantees it'll be the worst iteration of Making Big Dudes in a block that didn't really need more ways to make derpy monsters derpier.

[FTW]

The Derp - 7 r/w/g/u/b
Legendary Enchantment Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Nicol Bolas God
Loyalty: 7
Say "herp": ~ gets +3/+2 until end of phase. If this is the fourth time you've activated this ability this turn, opponent may kick you in the balls. If opponent does, sacrifice all permanents you control.
0/4

[Barook]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150737&d=1389589349

Yet another shitty Bob variant - hooray! :rolleyes:

[Rizso]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150737&d=1389589349

Yet another shitty Bob variant - hooray! :rolleyes:

At least its possible to combine with Springleaf Drum :D

[Aggro_zombies]

At least its possible to combine with Springleaf Drum :D
You can combine regular Bob with Springleaf Drum too. In fact, you don't even need Springleaf Drum to get value out of regular Bob.

I'm hoping there's some interesting cards in this set somewhere - today's previews don't contain any, and the block mechanics don't suggest there will be any - but even if there are a handful of sweet cards, we're just on the level of Dragon's Maze: an overall bad set with a few cool things in it. I kind of figured that would be the case given how committed this block is to creatures, but Christ, are a bad Punisher mechanic and an untap trigger the best they could come up with? Either Magic is running out of actual design space or this block represents some serious teething issues on the part of the new Design team members.

[thecrav]

I think Pain Seer will mostly be used as a poor-man's-Confdant in modern.

I don't think there's much to say about it in legacy unless someone finds a [good] way to make it tap without attacking or untap multiple times in a turn.

I think there's potential for it to get played in Vintage. Blockers are less common and it can be 'turned off' when you're low on life or taking infinite turns but trying not to die.

[Megadeus]

A better than blood scrivenger. I kinda like it. Ral Zarek best friend

[Aggro_zombies]

A better than blood scrivenger. I kinda like it. Ral Zarek best friend
People are hyping this guy for Standard with Hidden Strings and Zarek, but at that point you're just making a bad Underworld Connections. I think Pain Seer will get tested in the WB Human Aggro deck, but I don't think there's anywhere else for him that isn't already running the vastly superior Connections.

Maybe if there's a BR Aggro deck or something, he'll get played there.

As it is, this looks like the set's designated Card to Dump ASAP.

[TsumiBand]

A better than blood scrivenger. I kinda like it. Ral Zarek best friend

I was kind of thinking that too. I have this awful Rakdos deck for Modern that runs Scrivener with shit like Dangerous Wager as it's easy to cast and my hand should be damn near empty by the time I'd cast it anyway, so maybe this thing could just hop in its chair and I could quit playing "sometimes" draw spells. Or I just could keep doing it anyway, because it's just a bad deck.

The first God they spoiled seems real bad. I assume "Devotion to white and blue >= seven" means that it's white + blue symbols you control.. hard to say what hybrid mana does to the count without getting a ruling. Anyway, that particular card didn't seem very good. Not as good as the first round of Gods anyway.

Skyreaping is kind of interesting though, right? I mean.. if you're just casting Pyroclasm for flying things, it doesn't take too much Devotion to clear the skies of all flyers in the 2 - 4 toughness range. I dunno.

[thecrav]

The first God they spoiled seems real bad. I assume "Devotion to white and blue >= seven" means that it's white + blue symbols you control.. hard to say what hybrid mana does to the count without getting a ruling. Anyway, that particular card didn't seem very good. Not as good as the first round of Gods anyway.



Hybrid mana symbols such as [U/W] Mana count toward both their colors but aren't counted twice.

SOURCE (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/bornofthegodsmechanics#anchor4)

[Nihil Credo]

I think Pain Seer will mostly be used as a poor-man's-Confdant in modern.

I don't think there's much to say about it in legacy unless someone finds a [good] way to make it tap without attacking or untap multiple times in a turn.

I think there's potential for it to get played in Vintage. Blockers are less common and it can be 'turned off' when you're low on life or taking infinite turns but trying not to die.

The problem with Seer is less the need to attack than the fact that you're skipping your first draw.

If you drew on your first turn it might well have been viable for very aggressive Jund builds. Pushing past DRS and 1/xes in general is big.

[Lemnear]

The problem with Seer is less the need to attack than the fact that you're skipping your first draw.

If you drew on your first turn it might well have been viable for very aggressive Jund builds. Pushing past DRS and 1/xes in general is big.

This creature rewards being already far ahead on board, which is a plain stupid game design.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150748&d=1389589690

Really Wizards? Did a card that basically says "All your creatures are unblockable*" really need to be at Uncommon?

I know, I know, it dies to removal, but it's still an annoyingly swingy card in Sealed/Draft.

*Unless the opponent has Reachers.

[Lemnear]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150748&d=1389589690

Really Wizards? Did a card that basically says "All your creatures are unblockable*" really need to be at Uncommon?

I know, I know, it dies to removal, but it's still an annoyingly swingy card in Sealed/Draft.

*Unless the opponent has Reachers.

It's 6 mana ... c'mon pal

[Worldslayer]

New Bob is bad Bob.

On the other hand, Bob is ridiculous and you can almost run eight, now. If you wanted. So that's a thing for like... I don't know. Dead guy ale? And such?

[Final Fortune]

New Bob is bad Bob.

On the other hand, Bob is ridiculous and you can almost run eight, now. If you wanted. So that's a thing for like... I don't know. Dead guy ale? And such?

I was thinking the same thing, while it's not as good there is always the chance that hitting a critical mass of any one card effect makes a deck playable.

[Aggro_zombies]

It's 6 mana ... c'mon pal
Six mana is worth it in Theros Limited for a mini-Praetor.

I don't get why they're enchantments, though. You could remove the enchantment type from that card and it would make just as much sense. Weren't the enchantment creatures supposed to justify their enchantment-ness by, well, feeling like enchantments? The Bestow guys at least kind of get there because they can be auras as well, but I was pretty stumped at the beginning of the block as to where else they could go that would fulfill MaRo's dictum that enchantment creatures need to feel like creatures and enchantments. It looks like they didn't figure it out.

But I might be expecting too much from a set where the major selling points are a Punisher mechanic, an untap trigger, and Bestow creatures not having square stats anymore.

[Quasim0ff]

No, the new bob is NOT terrible. The new bob has the chance to actually provide value THE TURN HE HITS THE TABLE.

Bob is better, obviously, as he doesn't take any work (I'll just casually have my 2/1 wall that cannot block or attack into anything) to draw extra cards, but Pain Seer is fine too.

[Lemnear]

At least you can stop the lifeloss from Pain Seer unlike Dark Confidant if you are running low on life

[Megadeus]

I forgot about underworld connections being a thing. Not sure if any cards that untap creatures are worth running just to draw an extra card. Nothing I can think of anyway.

[DireLemming]

There is a trololol deck hiding somewhere between Inspired, Tradewind Rider and Quirion Ranger.

[Nihil Credo]

I forgot about underworld connections being a thing. Not sure if any cards that untap creatures are worth running just to draw an extra card. Nothing I can think of anyway.

Just untapping creatures won't gain you any extra cards with Pain Seer; you'll draw a card immediately then skip the one on your next turn (because Seer was already untapped).

You would need a tap AND an untap effect to trigger it twice per turn. Can't think of any playable cards a la Quirion Ranger than can do it. Second Wind does give you infinite triggers, but the life loss makes them a lot less infinite.

[Grand Superior]

Pain Seer intrigues me. It is certainly worse than Dark Confidant, but it at least has two toughness - quite relevant in the new True-Name Nemesis world where Golgari Charms and Zealous Persecutions have never been more popular. There's also the fact that (brought up earlier in the thread) that this effectively lets you run 8 Dark Confidant-like creatures in a deck. The "critical mass" effect worked in the case of Modern Eggs with 8 Second Sunrises and in Legacy Dredge with 8 Careful Studies (though in that case, Faithless Looting's flashback was more the reason) but I'm not sure if it'll work in this case. Should be worth testing.

[Barook]

Second Wind does give you infinite triggers, but the life loss makes them a lot less infinite.
Spending :3::u::b: and two cards for a more vulnerable Ad Nauseam doens't sound very hot.

[H]

Pain Seer intrigues me. It is certainly worse than Dark Confidant, but it at least has two toughness - quite relevant in the new True-Name Nemesis world where Golgari Charms and Zealous Persecutions have never been more popular. There's also the fact that (brought up earlier in the thread) that this effectively lets you run 8 Dark Confidant-like creatures in a deck. The "critical mass" effect worked in the case of Modern Eggs with 8 Second Sunrises and in Legacy Dredge with 8 Careful Studies (though in that case, Faithless Looting's flashback was more the reason) but I'm not sure if it'll work in this case. Should be worth testing.

I am thinking along the same lines for.Vintage, 5 Dark Confidants might be pretty good.

I'll be looking to pick up a couple of these.

[FTW]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150737&d=1389589349

Yet another shitty Bob variant - hooray! :rolleyes:

Inspire sucks for 1v1 formats BUT is busted in commander with any combo that can tap+untap a creature multiple times per turn.... This one's probably not worth abusing but the Sphinx that plays free spells definitely is. Infinite combo win?

In Modern, this poor man's Bob plays nicely with Skirksdad High Priest!! Or other cheap creatures that tap your guys for profit. Hidden Strings/Ral Zarek is a huge waste because you're not tapping the creature for profit.

[FTW]

Spending :3::u::b: and two cards for a more vulnerable Ad Nauseam doens't sound very hot.

Worse because Second Wind does not work. The activated ability is on the Aura, not the creature. The Aura should remain tapped when the creature untaps so you wouldn't be able to activate it a second time.

[TorpidNinja]

Can someone help me out with this phrasing:

"Hybrid mana symbols such as (w/u) count toward both their colors but aren't counted twice."

Bwah?

So does Ephara become a creature with Plumeveil in play, or not?

[TsumiBand]

SOURCE (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/bornofthegodsmechanics#anchor4)

So if I poop two Burning-Tree Emissary onto the table, it doesn't give me 2x 'Gruul devotion' -- each hybrid symbol is counted once. Good to know.

The UW God looks not very good, maybe the others are more playable to make it matter a damn. Maybe I'm failing the basic math game here; a one-color God basically just wants four other Devotion besides its own to become a creature. A two-color God, after counting its own symbols, goes and looks for five other Devotion before it stops not being a creature. It feels to me like it's a tougher requirement to satisfy? So the effect should be a little stronger than the spoiled WU God. Perhaps I am just not evaluating Devotion correctly, as I have pretty much only had direct experience with it regarding a couple of castings of Gray Merchant of Asphodel in Extra Durdles Highlander.

@Pain Seer - Whoever it was that brought up that it can be electively turned off by just not tapping it, I think brings up a valid point. There's a nonzero number of times when you want to not have Confidant trigger anymore. I'm not sure that it's worth the turn you're not drawing a card necessarily, but barring any tricks on your opponent's behalf to force you to tap it, at least it can stay home and do nothing if it needs to. Meh.

[PirateKing]

Can someone help me out with this phrasing:

"Hybrid mana symbols such as (w/u) count toward both their colors but aren't counted twice."

Bwah?

So does Ephara become a creature with Plumeveil in play, or not?

A card with CMC 3 can add at most 3 devotion. Plumeveil at :wu::wu::wu: is adding 3 blue or 3 white, or some combination that adds up to 3.
Thopter Foundry adds :w::u: and :b::u: at the same time, which is different than adding :w::b::u: all at once.

[rufus]

...

You would need a tap AND an untap effect to trigger it twice per turn. Can't think of any playable cards a la Quirion Ranger than can do it. Second Wind does give you infinite triggers, but the life loss makes them a lot less infinite.

Second Wind's tap ability is on the aura, so it doesn't work. Aura of Domion isn't playable, though it would be funny on that sphinx.

[Darkenslight]

Just untapping creatures won't gain you any extra cards with Pain Seer; you'll draw a card immediately then skip the one on your next turn (because Seer was already untapped).

You would need a tap AND an untap effect to trigger it twice per turn. Can't think of any playable cards a la Quirion Ranger than can do it. Second Wind does give you infinite triggers, but the life loss makes them a lot less infinite.

Pemmin's Aura would like to have a word with you.

[L0cke]

I just want them to reprint Opposition to go with shitty-Bob and Young Pyromancer so I can play them in standard where everyone and their mother doesn't pack -1/-1 effects to kill True-Name Nemesis and ruin all my fun.

[Nihil Credo]

Second Wind's tap ability is on the aura, so it doesn't work. Aura of Domion isn't playable, though it would be funny on that sphinx.

The card I was actually thinking of was Freed from the Real, I stumbled on Second Wind and got confused. Aura of Dominion is even better though, :1: for a Bob trigger instead of :u::u:! Which makes it... a slightly less smelly type of trash, and only mildly less embarrassing as a poor man's Ad Nauseam. Eh.

[TsumiBand]

A card with CMC 3 can add at most 3 devotion. Plumeveil at :wu::wu::wu: is adding 3 blue or 3 white, or some combination that adds up to 3.
Thopter Foundry adds :w::u: and :b::u: at the same time, which is different than adding :w::b::u: all at once.

Let us hope there is no check for Devotion to Esper, then. O_o

[Dice_Box]

Sweet a new fish that is.... Green? Well fuck that, nothing to see here.

[rufus]

... :1: for a Bob trigger instead of :u::u:! ..

:1: is a pretty good value for the Arbiter of the Ideal trigger, but you'd still have to amortise the set-up costs... only 8 mana and 2 cards.

It does look like the set is seeking out critical mass for some kind of Mesmeric Orb/Wake Thrasher combo deck though.

[Barook]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150838&d=1389641507


It does look like the set is seeking out critical mass for some kind of Mesmeric Orb/Wake Thrasher combo deck though.
Two of the new Merfolk (we have seen weider shit than that, including Human Merfolk and Goblin Merfolk) + Wake Thrasher is also a infinite combo. And while it combines nicely with Aether Vial, Wake Thrasher and TNN, Merfolk doesn't have the space to afford running it, not to mention the additional color issues.

It should be mentioned that it can untap Gaea's Cradle (or other ridiculous mana producers like Grim Monolith), is GSZ-able, grants pseudo-vigilance and can provide additional activations of stuff like Mom, KotR, etc.

[Arsenal]

It should be mentioned that it can untap Gaea's Cradle (or other ridiculous mana producers like Grim Monolith), is GSZ-able, grants pseudo-vigilance and can provide additional activations of stuff like Mom, KotR, etc.

Scryb Ranger does the same thing, albeit as a one-shot.

[TsumiBand]

CLEARLY, the best card to use in tandem with Pain Seer is Staff of Domination. We're talking about mono-Black here! Devotion lands, Cabal Coffers, Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth… get there! 24 mana for three cards? Who cares! It's THREE CARDS. Did anyone even think to include split cards? If they're split cards, that's like drawing SIX cards.

[Barook]

Scryb Ranger does the same thing, albeit as a one-shot.
Scryb Ranger doesn't power up stuff like Cradle, though.

[alphastryk]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150838&d=1389641507


Two of the new Merfolk (we have seen weider shit than that, including Human Merfolk and Goblin Merfolk) + Wake Thrasher is also a infinite combo. And while it combines nicely with Aether Vial, Wake Thrasher and TNN, Merfolk doesn't have the space to afford running it, not to mention the additional color issues.

It should be mentioned that it can untap Gaea's Cradle (or other ridiculous mana producers like Grim Monolith), is GSZ-able, grants pseudo-vigilance and can provide additional activations of stuff like Mom, KotR, etc.

It's definitely interesting but I suspect the power level isn't quite high enough.

[FTW]

It's definitely interesting but I suspect the power level isn't quite high enough.

Don't understimate BUG Derp in Standard:

T1: Forest, Springleaf Drum (5 cards in hand)

T2: Island, This. Tap with drum to play second Drum. (3 cards in hand)

T3: Swamp, BadBob. Tap with Drum for 1 mana. Untap with durdler and draw a card. Tap with Drum for a 2nd mana. Tap remaining land for mana, 3 total. (3 cards in hand, GGG in pool)

Burst of Strength, untapping BadBob, drawing a card. (3 cards in hand, GG floating)

Springleaf Drum. Tap BadBob with Drum for G mana. (2 cards in hand, GG floating)

Burst of Strength, untapping BadBob, drawing a card. (2 cards in hand, G floating)

Springleaf Drum. Tap BadBob with Drum for G mana. (1 cards in hand, G floating)

Burst of Strength, untapping BadBob, drawing a card. Pass the turn. (1 card in hand)

T4: Do not attack with your 5/5. Instead, tap BadBob for G, Untap with durdler drawing a card, Tap for G, Tap lands for UBG. Cast Prophet of Kruphix. (2 cards in hand)
Play Grove of the Guardian. (1 card in hand)

T4B: On opponent's upkeep untap your 3 lands and 2 creatures, drawing a card. Tap lands for 1BUG. Flash in Gatekeeper Vine, searching for a basic land, and Chronatog. (1 land in hand)
Skip your next turn.

T4C: On opponent's upkeep untap your 4 lands. Tap basic lands for BUG. Tap BadBob for W, untap for durdler drawing a card, tap again for G. (1 card + 1 land in hand, BUGGW floating)
Tap Grove of the Guardian, Chronatog and Gatekeeper Vine to put an 8/8 Elemental into play ON TURN 4 IN STANDARD BETCHIS So broken.

You present your infinite win combo:
a) skip your next turn
b) untap stuff on opponent's turn
c) block stuff with unbeatable 8/8 token, 5/5 Badbob and 4/5 Tog. NOTHING CAN ATTACK THROUGH. SO GOOD.

Opponent is so floored he does not call a judge over Chronatog and immediately concedes.

[mini1337s]

The card I was actually thinking of was Freed from the Real, I stumbled on Second Wind and got confused. Aura of Dominion is even better though, :1: for a Bob trigger instead of :u::u:! Which makes it... a slightly less smelly type of trash, and only mildly less embarrassing as a poor man's Ad Nauseam. Eh.
Psh, UU, don't even sweat it... Patron Wizard is going in this deck anyways.

[Octopusman]

I'm confused about Arbiter of the Ideal:
4UU

Creature — Sphinx Rare
Flying
Inspired — Whenever Arbiter of the Ideal becomes untapped, reveal the top card of your library. If it's an artifact, creature, or land card, you may put it onto the battlefield with a manifestation counter on it. It's an enchantment in addition to its other types.
Illus. Svetlin Velinov #31/165 4/5


What is the point of the counter? The counter isn't what makes it an enchantment. Usually, the point is that if the counter gets removed somehow it loses whatever it did to it. Am I missing something?

[Megadeus]

Might be a sort of card that deals with manifestation counters

[Mewens]

The counter's probably just there as a reminder. See Sensei Golden-Tail; it's for memory issues.

[TsumiBand]

Don't understimate BUG Derp in Standard:

T1: Forest, Springleaf Drum (5 cards in hand)

T2: Island, This. Tap with drum to play second Drum. (3 cards in hand)

T3: Swamp, BadBob. Tap with Drum for 1 mana. Untap with durdler and draw a card. Tap with Drum for a 2nd mana. Tap remaining land for mana, 3 total. (3 cards in hand, GGG in pool)

Burst of Strength, untapping BadBob, drawing a card. (3 cards in hand, GG floating)

Springleaf Drum. Tap BadBob with Drum for G mana. (2 cards in hand, GG floating)

Burst of Strength, untapping BadBob, drawing a card. (2 cards in hand, G floating)

Springleaf Drum. Tap BadBob with Drum for G mana. (1 cards in hand, G floating)

Burst of Strength, untapping BadBob, drawing a card. Pass the turn. (1 card in hand)

T4: Do not attack with your 5/5. Instead, tap BadBob for G, Untap with durdler drawing a card, Tap for G, Tap lands for UBG. Cast Prophet of Kruphix. (2 cards in hand)
Play Grove of the Guardian. (1 card in hand)

T4B: On opponent's upkeep untap your 3 lands and 2 creatures, drawing a card. Tap lands for 1BUG. Flash in Gatekeeper Vine, searching for a basic land, and Chronatog. (1 land in hand)
Skip your next turn.

T4C: On opponent's upkeep untap your 4 lands. Tap basic lands for BUG. Tap BadBob for W, untap for durdler drawing a card, tap again for G. (1 card + 1 land in hand, BUGGW floating)
Tap Grove of the Guardian, Chronatog and Gatekeeper Vine to put an 8/8 Elemental into play ON TURN 4 IN STANDARD BETCHIS So broken.

You present your infinite win combo:
a) skip your next turn
b) untap stuff on opponent's turn
c) block stuff with unbeatable 8/8 token, 5/5 Badbob and 4/5 Tog. NOTHING CAN ATTACK THROUGH. SO GOOD.

Opponent is so floored he does not call a judge over Chronatog and immediately concedes.

I'm really glad the Godhand in Standard requires triple Burst of Strength and a card from Visions.


I'm confused about Arbiter of the Ideal:
4UU

Creature — Sphinx Rare
Flying
Inspired — Whenever Arbiter of the Ideal becomes untapped, reveal the top card of your library. If it's an artifact, creature, or land card, you may put it onto the battlefield with a manifestation counter on it. It's an enchantment in addition to its other types.
Illus. Svetlin Velinov #31/165 4/5


What is the point of the counter? The counter isn't what makes it an enchantment. Usually, the point is that if the counter gets removed somehow it loses whatever it did to it. Am I missing something?

As others have pointed out, it just showcases that the card is also an enchantment. Can't have an enchantments matter block without things turning into things that matter, after all!

"Um, Abolish your... Descration Demon?"
"In response, Savage Summoning."
"Right okay."
"Still in response... Vampire Hexmage."
"....the fuck happened to this game."

[rufus]

It's definitely interesting but I suspect the power level isn't quite high enough.

Fatestitcher is better and doesn't see any play.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150837&d=1389636994

This card makes me sad because of how badly Wizards is bungling Red's foray into card selection. Discard then draw, as templated, is considerably worse then regular looting. Because the discard is a cost, not part of the effect, there's no "lol Madness" shenanigans. Yet all of the cards Wizards has printed so far with this effect are costed as though they were the far superior Blue looting effect. Look at Rummaging Goblin versus Merfolk Looter and Cephalid Looter/Reckless Scholar. Now this piece of 14th pick jank...it's almost as though they want the mechanic to fail.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150874&d=1389675767

A new Rabid Wombat variant. Now casual aura decks can deliver the beatdown with some dude that makes Gerrard Butler look pudgy rather than something silly like a wombat or whatever the hell a gnarlid is. Fun design.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150871&d=1389675749

I want this card to be good, but it really isn't. While both effects are decent enough for the cost, it still falls victim to the malady of punisher cards. When you want a 5/5 hasty, evasive dude to finish off your opponent in an aggro/sligh deck, your opponent will decline to pay tribute. And when your opponent is sitting on instant-speed removal, they'll pay tribute and take it out immediately. Neither effect is particularly gamebreakingly good, but it's Mythic, so it'll probably presell for ~25 clams on hype alone. Or maybe Wizards finally designed a decent punisher card...who knows?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150876&stc=1&d=1389675979

And another poorly designed, underwhelming B/R card...with a punisher effect to boot. I guess Olivia Voldaren, an actually well designed, interesting and, powerful B/R card, was an anomaly.

Seriously though, going big on punisher effects strikes me as Wizards phoning it in completely or whiffing hard on recruiting competent talent. Then again, they can afford to. Return to Ravnica was an awful block, and yet it sold like hotcakes. Clearly, Magic sales are pretty robust against shit design, and Wizards probably knows it.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah the little kid in me really likes the Hero of Iroas. Really there's a whole deck full of Wombats now; every goofy White guy with Heroic that is even moderately over the curve is fair game, and honestly some of them do not seem all that bad, except that it seems like the other side of the coin is missing - where's the good Aura that makes the venture worthwhile? Wherever it is, it will probably never have "Bestow" on it, because they necessarily overcost the pants off Bestow, even to the point where I doubt this guy's ability will fix it.

Fated Retribution is unplayable in several formats, I think. Though being an Instant Wrath doesn't suck in EDH, 7 mana is a little bit top-heavy for me. I do not think that spell does anything.

Mogis sucks. Both of the spoiled Gods are bad. Eesh.

The Phoenix is only okay, so it's bad too. Tribute is just not probably going to be very much good at all, ever, for any reason. I mean shit, the punisher mechanic can't even make "lose half your life OR I get an extra turn" look good, so "a bird, or a slightly bigger bird" isn't gonna scare anybody.

[FTW]

WotC must have decided that the mono-Gods were too good after top tables are all full of Devotion decks. I guess they're considering the impact of being able to run multiple Gods at once. Remember how OP running multiple planeswalkers in planeswalker control was? WotC underestimated the power of that... they're probably worried about the same thing with indestructible Gods.

e.g. Thassa + UW one on the board are both indestructible, add 2 to blue devotion and 3 to azorious devotion. So even after a ton of Wrathing, Thassa only needs a Nightveil Specter to go active and the UW one just needs a Specter + Judge's Familiar or something. That's not that hard to meet. What if Esper control has Thassa, UW and UB one on the board? You can Supreme Verdict for days and Thassa only needs TWO devotion from any permanent (even Jace or Bident of Thassa) to go into beatdown mode. The UW and UB one can beatdown too with only ONE more devotion. This is a format that has weak counterspells and just lost Terminus... how exactly are you supposed to stop a board of 1 Planeswalker + 3 indestructible gods?

Especially in Limited, the dual gods may actually be easier to enable. That may be why they made it 7. If it was 6, they'd only need 4 other devotion in a combination of 2 colors (WAY WAY easier in Limited than 4 other devotion of 1 color).

[Arsenal]

Fatestitcher is better and doesn't see any play.

That's because Fatestitcher costs 4 mana, not because of the ability. As Scryb Ranger and Quirion Ranger shows, untapping a dude is pretty valuable in certain decks, as long as it's reasonably costed. 1 or 2 mana? Sure. 4 mana? lolwut.

[FTW]

That's because Fatestitcher costs 4 mana, not because of the ability. As Scryb Ranger and Quirion Ranger shows, untapping a dude is pretty valuable in certain decks, as long as it's reasonably costed. 1 or 2 mana? Sure. 4 mana? lolwut.

Summoning sickness? lolwut

[Arsenal]

Summoning sickness? lolwut

That too. I mean, untapping dudes can be pretty damn important in certain decks, it's just about how much you want to spend to do so. I'd gladly spend 2 mana on Scryb Ranger and get to insta-untap my KotR for combat tricks. I'm not going to spend 4 mana, then wait a turn, to start untapping dudes.

[Dice_Box]

New Bob looks interesting. Not good, but he may see fringe play in some Mono Black control decks. Or as a cheap replacement for those without massive amounts of money. Well, once the hype dies.

[FTW]

What hype? The combo with Springleaf Drum and Burst of Strength??? How is there hype about BadBob?
.

[Arsenal]

How is there hype about BadBob?

I think he means the general hype surrounding pre-release prices and speculation. Remember when Blood Scrivener was first spoiled? A lot of online stores had him at $8+ for pre-release prices. Once the hype died down, he became a $0.25 rare.

[Dice_Box]

It's a standard black draw card. The most powerful deck in the format is Mono Black Devotion. It's going to be wanted.

[PirateKing]

Fingers crossed for a vampire with tribute on it, any excuse to shout out Tribute!?! You steal men's souls and make them your slaves! during a match is well worth it.

[Final Fortune]

I don't think the Epiphany Storm discard before draw mechanic is necessarily "bungled," if Careful Study read discard two cards, then draw two cards it'd be strictly worse in Reanimator and absolutely broken in Dredge. If there's a good chance that WOTC is going to print discard before draw spells as lower costed, under powered versions of draw before discard spells then this could very easily be a shot in the arm for Dredge.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Fingers crossed for a vampire with tribute on it, any excuse to shout out Tribute!?! You steal men's souls and make them your slaves! during a match is well worth it.

It'd be even better if that player had Erebos on the field.

'Perhaps the same could be said of all religions?'

[wcm8]

It'd be even better if that player had Erebos on the field.

'Perhaps the same could be said of all religions?'

But enough talk, have at you!!

Man. I love SOTN.

[rufus]

I don't think the Epiphany Storm discard before draw mechanic is necessarily "bungled," ...

I also think 'discard first' has good potential. (Though Epiphany Storm is bad just for being overcosted and an aura anyway.)

For spells it's irritating when they make the discard part of the casting cost, rather than the effect, because of the vulnerability to counters (and, for dredge, instant-speed graveyard hate). If they did something more like the Forget template, I think those cards could be significantly better.

[YamiJoey]

"Why does that card have Monstrous? It's just a man?"
"What is a man?"

[Richard Cheese]

There is a trololol deck hiding somewhere between Inspired, Tradewind Rider and Quirion Ranger.

There is already a trololol deck with Tradewind Rider and Quirion Ranger, it's called Most.

[civet five]

It's 6 mana ... c'mon pal

These also deal with the old Humility/Opalescence timestamp silliness by just not allowing it to gain either. I'd like to think that this is how they originally wanted cards like Humility to work before getting caught in current rules trap they're in.

[Octopusman]

"Why does that card have Monstrous? It's just a man?"
"What is a man?"

"... a miserable little pile of..."
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=226749&type=card


Agreeing with the general disdain of cards where the opponent chooses the drawback, however I kind of like the phoenix. 4cmc for a 5/5 flyer with no draw back seems good to me. 3/3 flying haste for 4 is pushing it but it has "phoenix" so it's a pretty good lightning rod. Too bad re: STP.

I kind of like the B/R god. Although the opponent gets to pick and choose, both effects are pretty damn good, imo.

The wombat guy is pretty good at 2cmc but ... I'd like to see something that targets aura's while they're on the stack that allows them to return to your hard if the target gets removed in response or gives it "equipment" and an equip cost.

Some of these cards look pretty fun but I'm still holding out for a 2R playable, as usual.

[YamiJoey]

"... a miserable little pile of..."
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=226749&type=card

Well done everyone. Close the site, it's peaked. Done. It's been noce working with you all.

In other news the 8/8 Kraken is sweet. Not actually any good, but sweet.

Set seems like another small set as far as Eternal is concerned. Possibility for a sweet bomb/hate card, low chance of anything that is going to smash the formats like Jace or something.

[Barook]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150955&d=1389762294

A strictly better Infest - but I think there are better solutions to TNN out there.

[FTW]

A strictly better Infest - but I think there are better solutions to TNN out there.

Massacre?
But in all seriosity, scry 1 is not bad. I like my kill spells to leave me in better topdeck mode than opponent.

[alphastryk]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150955&d=1389762294

A strictly better Infest - but I think there are better solutions to TNN out there.

Dang it. Now I need to replace my pimp Infest.

[TsumiBand]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150944&d=1389762195

Whole cycle of these guys. Pay 2X, get [some token].

Eeeehhhhhhhhh.

[FTW]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150944&d=1389762195

Whole cycle of these guys. Pay 2X, get [some token].

Eeeehhhhhhhhh.

The tokens count as Enchantments, which is interesting. Possible synergy in a beatdown deck with 4 Ethereal Armor, 4 Rancor and some Heroic guys?

[TsumiBand]

Actually, wait, changed my mind.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150942&d=1389762189

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=5768&type=card
Do I win??

[phonics]

Actually, wait, changed my mind.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150942&d=1389762189

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=5768&type=card
Do I win??

So you are paying 4 mana for a creature that has to tap every turn, plus an extra 3 mana every time it untaps to do the same thing bitterblossom does? Am I missing something here?

[TsumiBand]

So you are paying 4 mana for a creature that has to tap every turn, plus an extra 3 mana every time it untaps to do the same thing bitterblossom does? Am I missing something here?

...Implicit sarcasm? :D

I *guess* if I were being semi-serious, I could point out that if one's board strictly consisted of the Swamps, Contamination, and one of either Bitterblossom or Forlorn Psuedamma, the Bitterblossom will just slowly kill its owner while saccing its own token during upkeep, while the Psuedamma can actually swing for damage (and in fact, has to be tapped in some way in order to be relevant, so may as well attack) and win the game.

If the BB player has a token on the board and again we assume that the board state is unaltered, that player's life total will slowly dwindle while the solo Faerie tries to get there. The deck would essentially be racing itself.

Of course… this assumes nothing else ever manages to come into play. This is a terrible assumption, but stranger things have happened.

EDIT AAAAH --- In before "there are 402 better ways to get a Contamination lock". I was being insipid!! These guys aren't really very good.

[rufus]

...Implicit sarcasm? :D
...
EDIT AAAAH --- In before "there are 402 better ways to get a Contamination lock". I was being insipid!! These guys aren't really very good.

Yeah, if you were being serious, it would have been the red one (:2::r: to cast and activate) combined with Blood Moon or Trinisphere. Less stinky garbage indeed.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah, if you were being serious, it would have been the red one (:2::r: to cast and activate) combined with Blood Moon or Trinisphere. Less stinky garbage indeed.

I guess I figured more people cast stuff with Mountains than Swamps. vOv Plus, Blood Moon is a single basic away from being Disenchanted by the effect of your opponent's preference.

I mean… Contamination is still assy, but that's a good catch.

[metelhead]

Geez....I kinda think the should have renamed the set Bored of the Gods:rolleyes: so far its pretty lackluster in my eyes...I see a few sideboard cards for Std...and the rest is strictly EDH/Limited fodder....

Theros was imho pretty cool and fairly balanced with many decent playables....

[Grand Superior]

Note, I have absolutely no experience with monored Burn, UR Delver, or other burn strategies, but this card:

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/833731535.jpg?1389833696

Seems like it could be a player in those decks' sideboards. It's like Smash to Smithereens for creatures, as hilarious as that sounds.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Note, I have absolutely no experience with monored Burn, UR Delver, or other burn strategies, but this card:

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/833731535.jpg?1389833696

Seems like it could be a player in those decks' sideboards. It's like Smash to Smithereens for creatures, as hilarious as that sounds.

Searing Blaze

[rxavage]

Searing Blaze

Unconditional.

[ESG]

* A Shock for RR instead of R. Strike one.

* If they have no creatures, it does nothing. Strike two.

* If they have creatures that are too large to kill, it does nothing. Strike three.

Searing Blaze does basically the same thing but is easier to enable and it doesn't have to kill the creature to do the damage to its controller. And Searing Blaze is barely played. This could potentially be playable in Modern in decks that want more than four Searing Blaze, but probably not even there. And I can't see it in Legacy at all.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151065&d=1389832401

Fires of Yavimaya, the God Card.

Probably decent in Standard, but rather uninteresting from a design standpoint, as it isn't particularly original. This block has a whole lot of retreads, whether they be in cards (the new Angel of Despair that exiles and takes something out when it dies) or the fact the story seems like Kamigawa with Greek myth instead of Japanese flavor.

[Amon Amarth]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151065&d=1389832401

Fires of Yavimaya, the God Card.

Probably decent in Standard, but rather uninteresting from a design standpoint, as it isn't particularly original. This block has a whole lot of retreads, whether they be in cards (the new Angel of Despair that exiles and takes something out when it dies) or the fact the story seems like Kamigawa with Greek myth instead of Japanese flavor.


But you were never able to make Fires your commander. So that's actually pretty sweet IMHO. and the pump too! Pretty sick in EDH.

[miguelmatix]

Only the phoenix till now... The rest is boring.
How can they waste these pieces of art making only garbage. Some of these pictures deserved something better.

[thecrav]

Not playable in eternal, but check out this card they named after Nedleeds

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151049&d=1389800357

ALL ABOARD THE DIDGERIDOO HYPE TRAIN!

[Dan Turner]

I actually purchased a didgeridoo just in case there is a playable minotaur legend

Sent from 15 min in the future via Tapatalk Timewarp.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah I kind of have been contemplating a set of Digeriderps.

Xenagos is probably the most playable multi-color God I've seen yet - but the other two are fairly terrible IMO. This guy seems okay...? I wish it didn't say "another target creature you control gets...".

I get the Fires comparison, but it bears pointing out that Fires gives all the things haste, not just a single thing. Though on the plus side you don't have to burn Xenagos to pump something, whereas Fires just does it the one time. But then again, it's 5 mana for an enchantment that grants haste on turn 6. But then again, that comes with a p/t boost...! Ack.

I feel like this one requires some time to see if it is worth its salt.

[Shawon]

Searing Blood is definitely better than Searing Blaze in a budget build of Burn without fetchlands. Plus that art is dope.

I'm a little relieved that Xenagos God-mode isn't as terrible as the other Nyxborn Gods, I don't care about its text, I WANT A XENAGOS, GOD OF REVELS PLAYMAT!!!

[Barook]

Too bad Xenagos is at least 1 mana too expensive for Legacy.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151133&d=1389848599
Double black seems iffy, but a 2 mana instant removal spell with the potential to create card advantage deserves a second look at least.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151130&d=1389848589
Again, too expensive for Legacy.

[Wilkin]

Too bad Xenagos is at least 1 mana too expensive for Legacy.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151133&d=1389848599
Double black seems iffy, but a 2 mana instant removal spell with the potential to create card advantage deserves a second look at least.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151130&d=1389848589
Again, too expensive for Legacy.

Essentially it's an Echoing Decay. A bit harder to cast but can kill more things. Trying to think of multiple creatures with the same name at 3 toughness, that you can target one of them. I guess Wild Nacatl or Kird Ape or Elephant tokens. :)

The Drown in Sorrow card is interesting. Infest with Scry 1. Was hoping for scry 2 or instant but hey when the spoiler said a functionally better infest it did come as advertised.

[Leftconsin]

The green/white one is going straight into my Captain Sisay EDH. Still unplayable in other Eternal formats.

[Aggro_zombies]

That GW god annoys me more than it should. I just have nightmares of people jamming it in EDH decks around here, thereby giving up all pretense that the format isn't all about ramping for the first several turns and then rotating creatures with large numbers on them ninety degrees to the right.

[Darkenslight]

That GW god annoys me more than it should. I just have nightmares of people jamming it in EDH decks around here, thereby giving up all pretense that the format isn't all about ramping for the first several turns and then rotating creatures with large numbers on them ninety degrees to the right.

That's not at all true!

...You can cast Hurricane for life-totals instead.

[Mewens]

I have unbound hatred for the GW one.
5-mana slow, EtB tapped ramp? Are they even trying?

Why is it that my enchantress deck is 0 for almost 300 for even remotely playables in a God damned enchantment block? Am I even going to see a near-miss playable?

[Aggro_zombies]

I have unbound hatred for the GW one.
5-mana slow, EtB tapped ramp? Are they even trying?

Why is it that my enchantress deck is 0 for almost 300 for even remotely playables in a God damned enchantment block? Am I even going to see a near-miss playable?
Because this is a creature block masquerading as an enchantment block. If you played more creatures, maybe you'd have some sweet auras to put on them.

[Leftconsin]

That GW god annoys me more than it should. I just have nightmares of people jamming it in EDH decks around here, thereby giving up all pretense that the format isn't all about ramping for the first several turns and then rotating creatures with large numbers on them ninety degrees to the right.

Oh, the entire meta near me is ramp-into-fatties.dec and oh boy the complaints come in when you aren't big beats. T3 Sylvan Primordial T4 Avenger of Zendikar is fine while countering any spells is completely shunned. The LGS has Legacy and EDH on the same night. Sometimes I switch it up and play some highlander. Also, I have to maintain at least one EDH deck because of the absolute monopoly it has on the judge community.

[Lemnear]

Modern: Xenagos into Primeval/Inferno Titan ... urgh!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Oh, the entire meta near me is ramp-into-fatties.dec and oh boy the complaints come in when you aren't big beats. T3 Sylvan Primordial T4 Avenger of Zendikar is fine while countering any spells is completely shunned.
The exact reason why I will never again play EDH.

The GW creature is nice, though.

[Tylert]

The exact reason why I will never again play EDH.

The GW creature is nice, though.

You should pley EDH 1vs1. way better ;) and competitive.

[TsumiBand]

Blargh I wouldn't play that 5-mana ramp even in EDH. How bloody insipid is that!

I was just talking about this with my work buds; I said this is the direct result of the following actions on card design:

(1) Counters are too good; let's knock them down a peg or two.
(2) Hmm, looks like LD is no fun either. Let's scale that ish back as well.
(3) We need to up the efficiency of creatures, because decks still aren't on the battlefield as much as we'd like.
(4) …Fuck, you guys, Explosive Vegetation is a blowout. Was this always this good?? The hell were we thinking!

I mean really, take a look at mana ramp in Standard that actually puts land on the battlefield (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+[search]+[land]&format=[%22Standard%22]&sort=cmc+). Burnished Hart and Ordeal of Nylea are the cheapest spells toward this end, and they're slow-balls-slow. The first spell that immediately drops land into play? Frenzied Tilling. That's some ass.

[Cire]

Archetype of Courage 1ww
Enchantment Creature — Human Soldier Uncommon
Creatures you control have first strike.
Creatures your opponents control lose first strike and can't have or gain first strike.
2/2

Works well with cheap death touch creatures? Not really worth it, but I like the archetype cycle.

[TsumiBand]

Archetype of Courage 1ww
Enchantment Creature — Human Soldier Uncommon
Creatures you control have first strike.
Creatures your opponents control lose first strike and can't have or gain first strike.
2/2

Works well with cheap death touch creatures? Not really worth it, but I like the archetype cycle.

It is an interesting twist, isn't it? I didn't realize that this would be a cycle of superfriends.

I suspect Black is deathtouch, green is trample, red is haste? Arguably none of these are really very amazing, but I do like the idea they're playing with. Compare it to the Praetors from Mirrodin; Urabrask, Vorinclex, etc.

Unfortunately a lot of lopsided effects that say "only I do this; you can never do this" are typically not great. Teferi from Time Spiral comes to mind as an example that enjoyed some success. I guess the Praetors play EDH. But these are so specialized, that they can only suck; compare Urabrask to the theoretical Red guy that denies haste to the opponent. There are a ton of differences from "my guys are hasty; you can never have hasty creatures" to "all your guys ETB tapped while mine have haste." May randomly yank a game of Limited to deny flying or first strike to your opponent.

[PirateKing]

Archetype of Courage 1ww
Enchantment Creature — Human Soldier Uncommon
Creatures you control have first strike.
Creatures your opponents control lose first strike and can't have or gain first strike.
2/2

What'd be the ruling if we both had our own out? Also I hope the rest of this new cycle are as relevant. Flying is only good if your opponents don't have flying. Same with first strike. Unfortunately there aren't many other examples.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

That GW god annoys me more than it should. I just have nightmares of people jamming it in EDH decks around here, thereby giving up all pretense that the format isn't all about ramping for the first several turns and then rotating creatures with large numbers on them ninety degrees to the right.

That's not what the format's about. The format's about ramping for all the turns until you can turn a lot of lands sideways and pump them with Kamahl.

[Megadeus]

That GW god annoys me more than it should. I just have nightmares of people jamming it in EDH decks around here, thereby giving up all pretense that the format isn't all about ramping for the first several turns and then rotating creatures with large numbers on them ninety degrees to the right.

This. Hence why I don't play EDH. It's all ramp ramp ramp, play fatties until the smoke clears. 1v1 EDH actually seems fun. Too bad if I built a 1v1 deck it would be in a similar vein of nedleeds BG strip mine deck. And people don't enjoy playing against that

[Cire]

What'd be the ruling if we both had our own out? Also I hope the rest of this new cycle are as relevant. Flying is only good if your opponents don't have flying. Same with first strike. Unfortunately there aren't many other examples.

I would really like green to be hexproof!

[FTW]

Because this is a creature block masquerading as an enchantment block. If you played more creatures, maybe you'd have some sweet auras to put on them.

Ironically, the best Aura in Standard is from R2R: Ethereal Armor.

Still have yet to see even Auras in this block better than Armor + Rancor from last year's Standard.

[TsumiBand]

What'd be the ruling if we both had our own out? Also I hope the rest of this new cycle are as relevant. Flying is only good if your opponents don't have flying. Same with first strike. Unfortunately there aren't many other examples.

The "can't" effect always wins whenever effects clash.

So, both players controlling the same card would result in both players being unable to grant their creatures first strike (or whatever ability the cards say the opponents can't have).

[Lord Seth]

I mean really, take a look at mana ramp in Standard that actually puts land on the battlefield (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+[search]+[land]&format=[%22Standard%22]&sort=cmc+). Burnished Hart and Ordeal of Nylea are the cheapest spells toward this end, and they're slow-balls-slow. The first spell that immediately drops land into play? Frenzied Tilling. That's some ass.This Standard is actually a bit of an anomaly when it comes to good put-onto-the-battlefield land spells/abilities. Take a look at the last few Standards in the core sets...
Magic 2013: Farseek
Magic 2012: Rampant Growth, Solemn Simulacrum, Primeval Titan
Magic 2011: Cultivate, Primeval Titan
Magic 2010: Rampant Growth

Right now seems the exception rather than the rule when it comes to put-onto-the-battlefield, land-based ramp in Standard. Though ramp is still a fairly viable strategy due to cards like Elvish Mystic, Sylvan Caryatid, and Nykthos Shrine of Nyx.

[Aggro_zombies]

That's not what the format's about. The format's about ramping for all the turns until you can turn a lot of lands sideways and pump them with Kamahl.
This seems like too much of an original thought for many of the G/x EDH Ramp players that I know. Much better to Genesis Wave for fifteen or Tooth and Nail out two Eldrazi.

[Leftconsin]

What'd be the ruling if we both had our own out? Also I hope the rest of this new cycle are as relevant. Flying is only good if your opponents don't have flying. Same with first strike. Unfortunately there aren't many other examples.

In that case nothing will have first strike. The phrase "can't have or gain" overrides it all due to:
101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can't happen, the "can't" effect takes precedence.

[ReAnimator]

Oh, the entire meta near me is ramp-into-fatties.dec and oh boy the complaints come in when you aren't big beats. T3 Sylvan Primordial T4 Avenger of Zendikar is fine while countering any spells is completely shunned. The LGS has Legacy and EDH on the same night. Sometimes I switch it up and play some highlander. Also, I have to maintain at least one EDH deck because of the absolute monopoly it has on the judge community.

This happened with one of my play groups years ago. I built a zo-zu the punisher deck with lots of random hateful things (psycogenic probe, some blood moons, wheel of torture etc). Wasn't too popular but it did stop a lot of that nonsense and when people got mad i pointed out the hypocrisy and explained why Mono Ramp in to Wammies, is a piss poor format as well.

[Norm]

Well this guy looks at least playable

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151220&d=1389934931

Thoughts?

[Fizzeler]

its definitely playable it should also cost 4 mana, but I am considering it in D&T it can attack through TNN and make 1/1s

[Barook]

Being boltproof and essentially a 4-power creature that shit out tokens like it's no one's business for 3 mana sounds definitely playable, despite just being a stupid beater. The vigilance makes him a strong option for defense, too.

Being legendary enables Karakas tricks and should help to recover in case of sweepers.

I like it alot.

[Aggro_zombies]

Since when does white get three mana 3/4s with upsides...?

Poor man's Geist either way. The main body is bigger but the 1/1 tokens are almost completely irrelevant.

[Norm]

Since when does white get three mana 3/4s with upsides...?

Poor man's Geist either way. The main body is bigger but the 1/1 tokens are almost completely irrelevant.

Well in fairness, this card is rather good on defense AND offense (and thanks to vigilance it does both quite well) where geist is purely an offensive card.

[TsumiBand]

Well this guy looks at least playable

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151220&d=1389934931

Thoughts?

I kind of like the "fixed Lackey" cards that White gets. It doesn't make the White Weenie Aggro strategy any better, but I like it. Like I like a cat. Cats are good; they don't win games, but they are cute as shit when they want things or try to use telephones.

For one more mana you get Hero of Bladehold though. Hard to say for sure where this thing lands.

[UnderwaterGuy]

What a dumb way to compete against TNN powercreep. Just ratchet up the power in other creatures as well. :/

[mrjumbo03]

We get our first probable legacy card after spoiling a third of Born of the Gods already.

Might see some play as a 2-3 of in DNT.

[Barook]

Poor man's Geist either way. The main body is bigger but the 1/1 tokens are almost completely irrelevant.
As soon as your opponent has 2 power available for blocking, Geist is SoL. Plus, this can be played in Mono-W.

I can see D&T experimenting with it. Maybe as a 1-of, probably 2 if its performance is good.

[mrjumbo03]

I would really like green to be hexproof!

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151241&d=1389939781

Well you got your wish. Although it's completely unplayable with that kind of cc.

[Lord Seth]

Well this guy looks at least playable

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151220&d=1389934931

Thoughts?
He's going straight into my White Weenie Standard deck, I can tell you that much.

[Aggro_zombies]

As soon as your opponent has 2 power available for blocking, Geist is SoL. Plus, this can be played in Mono-W.

I can see D&T experimenting with it. Maybe as a 1-of, probably 2 if its performance is good.
Geist has hexproof and is thus an excellent platform for equipment. This guy...doesn't have hexproof, but that's not really a huge deal-breaker. What is an issue is that Geist's token is large and evasive and probably doing four damage to your opponent, while the cat token is small, easily killed, and is probably not going to be a significant source of damage.

The biggest thing is that he has four toughness, so he survives being blocked by TNN. He doesn't survive being blocked by TNN if your opponent also has Jitte, but such is life. Jitte also conveniently blanks this guy's tokens, but it's probably better to block and kill the main body and take a point from the token with the understanding that you can kill the token later if it becomes an issue. The problem here (among other things) is that D&T lacks a good answer to a resolved TNN, and this guy doesn't really change the math on that all that much.

EDIT: @Archetype of Endurance: I was getting ready to be mad about yet another giant non-interactive creature, but then I realized it stripped hexproof off your opponents' stuff. I guess for 6GG it's acceptable and won't be too obnoxious in EDH.

[Scott]

Well this guy looks at least playable

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151220&d=1389934931

Thoughts?

It might replace Field Marshal in Soldier Stompy.

[Lemnear]

Does this fucking expansion contain any non-land cards where isn't the word creature printed on?!?!?!

[Aggro_zombies]

Does this fucking expansion contain any non-land cards where isn't the word creature printed on?!?!?!
Welcome back to Magic. You seem to have not been playing for the past two years or so. Is there anything you're curious about? Would you like some rules refreshers? Bestow can be a bit complicated...

[Lemnear]

Welcome back to Magic. You seem to have not been playing for the past two years or so. Is there anything you're curious about? Would you like some rules refreshers? Bestow can be a bit complicated...

Not funny my friend. I just have the impression that Return to Ravnica and this Block really overdid it in terms of "creatures" ... 2/3 of the cards are creatures because of limited and draft, out of the remaining 1/3 instants/sorceries/Enchantments/artifacts again most interact with creatures only.

That alone wouldn't be THAT bad if the creatures of WotC weren't so stupidly splashy and therefore 4+ mana. I'm just a guy who likes interaction of several cheap cards instead of playing ramp-into-4+cc

[Leftconsin]

Does this fucking expansion contain any non-land cards where isn't the word creature printed on?!?!?!

I ask myself that every spoiler season.

[Aggro_zombies]

Not funny my friend. I just have the impression that Return to Ravnica and this Block really overdid it in terms of "creatures" ... 2/3 of the cards are creatures because of limited and draft, out of the remaining 1/3 instants/sorceries/Enchantments/artifacts again most interact with creatures only.

That alone wouldn't be THAT bad if the creatures of WotC weren't so stupidly splashy and therefore 4+ mana. I'm just a guy who likes interaction of several cheap cards instead of playing ramp-into-4+cc
WotC's take on Magic now is that people have the most fun when they attack with creatures. The sales data strongly supports this conclusion. That's why the past couple of years have been so heavily creature-focused and why Magic is unlikely to move away from that anytime soon.

Maybe if sales tank it'll force a paradigm shift, but R&D works two years ahead (at least), so it'll be a long time before that rebalance happens.

[Lemnear]

WotC's take on Magic now is that people have the most fun when they attack with creatures. The sales data strongly supports this conclusion. That's why the past couple of years have been so heavily creature-focused and why Magic is unlikely to move away from that anytime soon.

Maybe if sales tank it'll force a paradigm shift, but R&D works two years ahead (at least), so it'll be a long time before that rebalance happens.

A look at the set-mechanics tells indeed a lot: All can be printed on creatures only.

I'd advice people to NOT participate in drafts anymore, as this sells the by far most boosters worldwide.

[Squirrel]

Does this fucking expansion contain any non-land cards where isn't the word creature printed on?!?!?!

Unravel the Æther and Thassa's Rebuff don't have it. (out of 54/165 spoiled).

Gonna test them in Storm..

[ESG]

WotC's take on Magic now is that people have the most fun when they attack with creatures. The sales data strongly supports this conclusion. That's why the past couple of years have been so heavily creature-focused and why Magic is unlikely to move away from that anytime soon.

Maybe if sales tank it'll force a paradigm shift, but R&D works two years ahead (at least), so it'll be a long time before that rebalance happens.

Pretty sure all this goes out the window when you consider the hate mail they got over hexproof and unblockable, and then they designed True-Name Nemesis. Unfortunately, TNN wasn't printed in a Standard-legal set, so we don't have waves of Standard players voicing their displeasure once again, which would help us secure a ban. WOTC employs lots of smart people and great Magic players but somehow makes egregious decisions.

Edit: Creatures are fine, but make them actually behave like creatures and not pseudo-spells.

[lyracian]

Does this fucking expansion contain any non-land cards where isn't the word creature printed on?!?!?!
Yes. So far there is two - Thassa's Rebuff (a bad counterspell) and the Delagmar reprint.

Probably be 2-3 more by the time we see the whole set.

[testing32]

Well this guy looks at least playable

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151220&d=1389934931

Thoughts?

This guy is nowhere near playable.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

This guy is nowhere near playable.

Three-mana 3/4 (out of Bolt range) dude that makes other dudes? I'm not sure if it's bad. Maybe for Legacy (yep, I know we're on Legacy forum), but I think it may find home in some Modern Soldiers or similar thing.

[testing32]

Three-mana 3/4 (out of Bolt range) dude that makes other dudes? I'm not sure if it's bad. Maybe for Legacy (yep, I know we're on Legacy forum), but I think it may find home in some Modern Soldiers or similar thing.

Oh yeah, I expect him to be a standard all star. But, he just doesn't hold up against the other 3 drops in legacy. For 3 mana if he isn't comparing favorably to a goyf, or batterskull, it's a pretty sure sign he isn't going to see play.

[Cire]

I would really like green to be hexproof!

Well, I called it. . . . but it's way overcosted :(

[Kayradis]

I hate this set.

[Looooooooo]

This guy is nowhere near playable.

He deserves to be tested, in D&T at least; and then he will deserve to be put aside...

- L

[Shawon]

He deserves to be tested, in D&T at least; and then he will deserve to be put aside...

- L

As sick as this guy is with Aether Vial, do you really want this guy in D&T, more so than the other 3-drops Brimaz is going to compete with, i.e. Flickerwisp/Mangara/Mirran Crusader?

[Tylert]

He deserves to be tested, in D&T at least; and then he will deserve to be put aside...

- L

Only problem is that he doesn't help the gameplan of D&T.
to be honest, if a 2/2 prog green pro black double strike doesn't see play in D&T, i don' tsee how this guy will...

[Erdvermampfa]

This set sucks.

[Barook]

How exactly do Cat people fit into Greek mythology? :confused:

[BVB09]

How exactly do Cat people fit into Greek mythology? :confused:

That was my exact thought. I asked Maro on tumblr but he gave me an answer that didn't explain anything...

[TsumiBand]

This set is only 32% spoiled. Christ on a Crunch bar.

[Cire]

That was my exact thought. I asked Maro on tumblr but he gave me an answer that didn't explain anything...

What he say?

Also isn't raised by wolves roman mythology not greek?

[Lemnear]

This set is only 32% spoiled. Christ on a Crunch bar.

I tell myself this every expansion since guidcrash and it never get better after the first 30 %

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I hate this set.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Every set since RtR has been about as bad as a million dildos raining down from the sky, why expect this one to be any different?

[rufus]

This set sucks.

So far anyway... anyone calling 'Bored of the Gods' yet?

[Allcoin]

Since when does white get three mana 3/4s with upsides...?

Poor man's Geist either way. The main body is bigger but the 1/1 tokens are almost completely irrelevant.

The tokens not getting exiled could also be quite nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PhantomLotus]

The only format that I care about (my Cube) is getting at least one card (Brimaz), so I'm happy. I just wish it wasn't a Standard-playable mythic. Maybe he never finds a real home...

[TsumiBand]

Every set since RtR has been about as bad as a million dildos raining down from the sky, why expect this one to be any different?

I would submit that roughly 50% of the population would consider millions of free dildos a fantastic gift.

[joemauer]

I would submit that roughly 50% of the population would consider millions of free dildos a fantastic gift.

I believe only about 0.001% of the magic playing community would enjoy free dildos.

[TsumiBand]

I believe only about 0.001% of the magic playing community would enjoy free dildos.

Page one Google search puts the female percentage of Magic players between 6% and 10%. Which, by the way, is lousy.

Really, there are probably a nonzero percentage of male players that might enjoy a free dildo. As a gift; some of us get close enough to women to apply one as directed. They may not be for women at all. They may not be even be a gift for others; none of my business, of course.

They make okay tokens. It's really easy to tell whether or not a dildo is tapped.

A bag of dildos makes a cumbersome life counter. One could indicate the storm count using a similar bag.

In EDH, a free dildo could be awarded to the player who insists on playing 5-color Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo in a meta full of Asmira-style ramp ramp ramp decks.

The applications of a good vibrator are plentiful; rich and bold in their scope. I refuse to believe that a mere thousandth of a percent of Magic players could not, would not accept a free dildo, let alone millions of free dildos.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Page one Google search puts the female percentage of Magic players between 6% and 10%. Which, by the way, is lousy.

Really, there are probably a nonzero percentage of male players that might enjoy a free dildo. As a gift; some of us get close enough to women to apply one as directed. They may not be for women at all. They may not be even be a gift for others; none of my business, of course.

They make okay tokens. It's really easy to tell whether or not a dildo is tapped.

A bag of dildos makes a cumbersome life counter. One could indicate the storm count using a similar bag.

In EDH, a free dildo could be awarded to the player who insists on playing 5-color Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo in a meta full of Asmira-style ramp ramp ramp decks.

The applications of a good vibrator are plentiful; rich and bold in their scope. I refuse to believe that a mere thousandth of a percent of Magic players could not, would not accept a free dildo, let alone millions of free dildos.

http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/cards/1389988428.png

[PirateKing]

I imagine a million free dildos is like the gift of a plane or a horse. It's not the cost of the item itself, rather the storage and upkeep that burns your bottom line. They're not delivered in bulk boxes, they rain down lose, you have to pick them up, store them, potential use open a cleaning cost factor. You gotta think these things through before you sign anything.

EDIT wow first post of a new page. I could quote somebody so this all might make sense, but instead, I won't.

[Malakai]

I mean....if I had a million dildoes, I'd be able to find something to do with them.

[Quasim0ff]

page one google search puts the female percentage of magic players between 6% and 10%. Which, by the way, is lousy.

Really, there are probably a nonzero percentage of male players that might enjoy a free dildo. As a gift; some of us get close enough to women to apply one as directed. They may not be for women at all. They may not be even be a gift for others; none of my business, of course.

They make okay tokens. It's really easy to tell whether or not a dildo is tapped.

A bag of dildos makes a cumbersome life counter. One could indicate the storm count using a similar bag.

In edh, a free dildo could be awarded to the player who insists on playing 5-color scion of the ur-dragon combo in a meta full of asmira-style ramp ramp ramp decks.

The applications of a good vibrator are plentiful; rich and bold in their scope. I refuse to believe that a mere thousandth of a percent of magic players could not, would not accept a free dildo, let alone millions of free dildos.

lol!!

[Malakai]

Really, there are probably a nonzero percentage of male players that might enjoy a free dildo. As a gift; some of us get close enough to women to apply one as directed. They may not be for women at all. They may not be even be a gift for others; none of my business, of course.


You make it sound like we're waiting in the weeds to hunt wild game (with dildoes!).

[Barook]

You know a set is bad when people would rather discuss dildos than the spoiled cards.

We already got Jace coins. Don't give Wizards any further stupid ideas - otherwise, we might get a massive, blue-colored dildo called "Jace, the Cavity Sculptor" soon enough.

[Malakai]

The best part of this set is they made a card named "God of the Police".

The alters, man. Think of the alters.

In other news, you can no longer argue that the flavor isn't terrible.

EDIT: Accidentally said game was terrible, meant flavor.

[TsumiBand]

You make it sound like we're waiting in the weeds to hunt wild game (with dildoes!).

So, "get close enough" is open to interpretation, but "apply as directed" denotes consent.


We already got Jace coins. Don't give Wizards any further stupid ideas - otherwise, we might get a massive, blue-colored dildo called "Jace, the Cavity Sculptor" soon enough.

You'll draw more bees with honey -- call it Jace the Mind Blower

[Admiral_Arzar]

You know a set is bad when people would rather discuss dildos than the spoiled cards.

We already got Jace coins. Don't give Wizards any further stupid ideas - otherwise, we might get a massive, blue-colored dildo called "Jace, the Cavity Sculptor" soon enough.

This is now the best thread on the source.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/353/3/c/derailed_by_isthedodge-d4jjx5p.gif

[Scott]

You know a set is bad when people would rather discuss dildos than the spoiled cards.

We already got Jace coins. Don't give Wizards any further stupid ideas - otherwise, we might get a massive, blue-colored dildo called "Jace, the Cavity Sculptor" soon enough.

The other end of that WotC double-ended dildo for customers is Liliana of the Dark Realms.

[Admiral_Arzar]

The other end of that WotC double-ended dildo for customers is Liliana of the Dark Realms.

I bet Liliana could make use of one for all her dark realms.

Ahem.

[Aggro_zombies]

This set is only 32% spoiled. Christ on a Crunch bar.
They're spoiling the rares and mythics first, which are supposed to be the exciting cards that drive set sales. So far, all of the spoiled cards have been driving my cash away from this set. If not even the rares and mythics are good, what hope is there for the commons that make up the bulk of the set?

A third of the set is spoiled and I'm already wishing for the block to be over. That's never happened before for me. Good job, Wizards!

[Gheizen64]

Page one Google search puts the female percentage of Magic players between 6% and 10%. Which, by the way, is lousy.

Really, there are probably a nonzero percentage of male players that might enjoy a free dildo. As a gift; some of us get close enough to women to apply one as directed. They may not be for women at all. They may not be even be a gift for others; none of my business, of course.

They make okay tokens. It's really easy to tell whether or not a dildo is tapped.

A bag of dildos makes a cumbersome life counter. One could indicate the storm count using a similar bag.

In EDH, a free dildo could be awarded to the player who insists on playing 5-color Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo in a meta full of Asmira-style ramp ramp ramp decks.

The applications of a good vibrator are plentiful; rich and bold in their scope. I refuse to believe that a mere thousandth of a percent of Magic players could not, would not accept a free dildo, let alone millions of free dildos.

Holy motherfucking shit. Dead.

[Richard Cheese]

http://memedepot.com/uploads/0/415_thread_is_dildos.jpg

[joven]

The best part of this set is they made a card named "God of the Police".


I like the name "God of Revels", it's like the god of partys! :D
And satyrs are actually the male counterpart to the nymphs, you know like in "nymphomania".
So, let's party! :D

[Lemnear]

Good "vibrations" in this thread, despite the crappy spoilers :)

[miguelmatix]

10% of every set should be designed by players. Something similar to the "you make the card".
Why not? Why should the design stay only in the hands of these guys? :mad:

[TsumiBand]

They're spoiling the rares and mythics first, which are supposed to be the exciting cards that drive set sales. So far, all of the spoiled cards have been driving my cash away from this set. If not even the rares and mythics are good, what hope is there for the commons that make up the bulk of the set?

A third of the set is spoiled and I'm already wishing for the block to be over. That's never happened before for me. Good job, Wizards!

There are more than a few 'good-enough' or 'better-than-bad' non-rare cards from the current Standard season, so I don't know that rarity == playability.

Dryad Militant
Experiment One
Judge's Familiar
Rakdos Cackler
Wear // Tear
Vandalblast
Boros Charm
Burning-Tree Emissary
Far // Away
Goblin Electromancer
Golgari Charm
Izzet Charm
Selesnya Charm
Simic Charm
Negate
Predatory Sliver
Skullcrack
Treasured Find
Young Pyromancer


And that's just for two mana or less (not counting things like split cards // things with Fuse).

Nothing stellar, but these are all somewhere between "Standard playable" and "almost Legacy playable kind of".

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I kind of like the "fixed Lackey" cards that White gets. It doesn't make the White Weenie Aggro strategy any better, but I like it. Like I like a cat. Cats are good; they don't win games, but they are cute as shit when they want things or try to use telephones.



I laughed.
Then I imagined the designer of this card reading this thread and I was sad.

[apple713]

is brimaz the first legacy playable from the set?

[Megadeus]

is brimaz the first legacy playable from the set?

Infest with scry is probably playable. Not amazing, but playable.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

You guys don't think that the white Archetype is playable? I really don't know but it seems possible.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[TsumiBand]

You guys don't think that the white Archetype is playable? I really don't know but it seems possible.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I'd try Brimaz in Deadguy Ale or something... Tokens to feed Cabal Therapy.
I don't think that mono-White aggro is a thing in Legacy though. The best White Weenie deck in the format is D&T, and the best guys in that deck are prison-oriented. Brimaz doesn't foster that angle.
If Soul Sisters was a thing, that'd maybe be the closest thing to MWA. But that's another deck where Brimaz is really only okay unless you're like crazy about Soul Warden triggers.

sent from phone, don't be a dick

[Barook]

I'd try Brimaz in Deadguy Ale or something... Tokens to feed Cabal Therapy.
I don't think that mono-White aggro is a thing in Legacy though. The best White Weenie deck in the format is D&T, and the best guys in that deck are prison-oriented. Brimaz doesn't foster that angle.
He doesn't exactly support the prison strategy - just like Mirran Crusader. He might provide alot of value, though. Karakas tricks are just the icing on the cake.

He's probably going to be very expensive for a while, though, considering he should be good in Standard and combines nicely with the new WU god.

[Dark Ritual]

I decided to see what people were talking about here and I must admit page 10 has some real quality posts right there comedy wise. As for Brimaz in legacy, how is he any better than mirran crusader? I don't see it. Dies to abrupt decay and every removal spell sans bolt and disfigure. He's a 3/4 for 1WW that makes 1/1's. That isn't close to being good enough in legacy. This set in legacy so far has me interested in just the scry infest and even that I'm not caring that much about considering toxic deluge was just printed.

[Valtrix]

Well, for death and taxes Brimaz being legendary is certainly a boon. Secondly, Brimaz does not die to burn spells (and comparatively crusader does), which actually are much more prevalent than abrupt decay at the moment. Delver decks all run burn, and many decks are running punishing fire, both of which give crusader problems. Also, Brimaz also gets around a TNN, albeit slowly. And if that wasn't enough, due to vigilance this guy is great on offense and defense. Plus, if you get one swing in the token gives you the ability to stop Liliana of the Veil (which is super relevant when this guy is likely to be vialed in EOT). Also, this guy is a 4 turn clock on an open board k (4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 22 damage), whereas crusader is a 5 turn clock. That's pretty crazy damage for a 3-drop.

So really, crusader can get through a goyf, batterskull, and abrupt decay, but loses on a lot of other fronts. I won't be surprised to see this guy as a 3x in Death and taxes.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I don't think anyone really expects him to be played in anything more than D&T and maybe Deadguy Ale like already previously mentioned. However, I agree that he will make a lot of fair MU's easier, especially against anything with Punishing in its title. That's not something Mirran Crusader can boast.

I think Deadguy Ale is going to become more of a thing since it is starting to take a D&T approach but with moar CA via Bob and the option of discard and even better board wipes as to have a better aggro MU (not a huge problem yet, to be sure, but I think aggro will be back, just not sure when or how).

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Lemnear]

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/240x334q90/c/703/2el1.png

[Lemnear]

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/240x334q90/c/202/edck.png

[Megadeus]

Stasis isn't really getting reprinted is it?

[Holly]

Nope, both confirmed fakes.

[Megadeus]

Nope, both confirmed fakes.

Disappointed and relieved at the same time. Was pretty excited to troll modern events with stasis. Alternatively I was a push of a button from buying ral zareks that I really didn't want to buy

[EpicLevelCommoner]

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/240x334q90/c/202/edck.png

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=270800&type=card

Shame though: these are actually kinda Legacy playbable (hell Minotaur might have actually became a legit archetype if they printed more good ones).

[(nameless one)]

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/240x334q90/c/703/2el1.png

In a Standard where Mana Leak is too powerful? Do you realize how many Standard players will cry?

That being said, it's fake.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/240x334q90/c/703/2el1.png

If you had asked me to pick 10 cards that would never be reprinted in Standard, I don't think there's any doubt in my mind that Stasis would have been in that list, surrounded by nine other early cards with like five hundred words of Oracle text each.

[Darkenslight]

If you had asked me to pick 10 cards that would never be reprinted in Standard, I don't think there's any doubt in my mind that Stasis would have been in that list, surrounded by nine other early cards with like five hundred words of Oracle text each.

Nah, you can do it in under 50. :cool:

How much rage would the Devotion decks have made if Stasis came into Standard? Stasis combo would have been epically humouous.

[rufus]

Nah, you can do it in under 50. :cool:

How much rage would the Devotion decks have made if Stasis came into Standard? Stasis combo would have been epically humouous.

Stasis plus a vigilant token generator... I'm sure people would love that.

[(nameless one)]

Death and Taxes definitely getting some love:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151341&d=1390194288

[Griselpuff]

WOW this card is incredible. Will 100% see play. I'd say it's an auto 4 of in D&T and is probably only a bit worse than Thalia.

[Barook]

A symmetrical hatebear for Brainstorm?

Has Hell frozen over?

[alphastryk]

Death and Taxes definitely getting some love:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151341&d=1390194288

Now that's a hatebear.

[Wilkin]

Death and Taxes definitely getting some love:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151341&d=1390194288

Wow. I was hoping for a Chains of Mephistopheles on a dude. And here we are, not exactly chains but does screw with brainstorm. 3 power really nice too.

Wonder where it fits in D&T. And which creature gets the boot.

[GradStudentGuy]

If RUG had problems with D&T before this creature, this takes it to whole new level. Its like having a chalice on one against that deck. This guy also buys tuns of time against combo decks. Its hard to win fast if you have to naturally draw your combo pieces.

[Griselpuff]

I thought all bears were 2/2's? :cool:

[EpicLevelCommoner]

I thought all bears were 2/2's? :cool:

It's obviously a hatecat (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130676)

[Griselpuff]

HAHAHA can we please make that stick?

[GradStudentGuy]

HAHAHA can we please make that stick?

Well it can be cast via ather vial so its close.

[Stan]

Death and Taxes definitely getting some love:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151341&d=1390194288

Cool detail: it can be fetched with enlightened tutor.

[Barook]

I like how it has 3 power. I expect to see this becoming a common play:

Opponent: Jace, Jacestorm
You: Response Vial, put this into play, next turn swing, kill your Jace.

It also stops Griselbrand from going nuts.

I guess now we have our high impact Legacy card - as expected from a Ken Nagle set.

[Griselpuff]

Wow, yeah literally every set Ken Nagle has lead-designed has had high impact Legacy cards.

Commander
New Phyrexia
Worldwake
Return to Ravnica

[apple713]

If RUG had problems with D&T before this creature, this takes it to whole new level. Its like having a chalice on one against that deck. This guy also buys tuns of time against combo decks. Its hard to win fast if you have to naturally draw your combo pieces.

i think you mean rug just bolts it and moves on with its game plan.... also see forked bolt

[KobeBryan]

This thing is good. Stops 8 of RUG's cards, 12 of omnitell, 12 of sneak show, and other combo decks.

hoses elves like crazy too.

[Nihil Credo]

The article that revealed Spirit of the Labyrinth doesn't talk about the card much (or at all, actually), but it's titled "Born Legacy". Seems extremely intentional.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

WOW this card is incredible. Will 100% see play. I'd say it's an auto 4 of in D&T and is probably only a bit worse than Thalia.

I'm just happy it's not a fucking 3/2 the way R&D's been going, but yeah. Extremely playable and extremely fair.

[Aggro_zombies]

This thing is good. Stops 8 of RUG's cards, 12 of omnitell, 12 of sneak show, and other combo decks.

hoses elves like crazy too.
Assuming this card sees tons and tons of play (and the fact that it turns off your own Brainstorms suggests that it is limited to just a small handful of decks), it is easily answerable by, among other things, Gut Shot.

It's also super squishy versus Stoneforge into Jitte.

Still good, to be sure, but not pants-shittingly so.

EDIT: I will say that I don't understand why that card is an enchantment. You could remove the Enchantment type from it and it would make just as much sense. That type seems there more as a box-ticking exercise than anything.

[ivanpei]

Holy crap what a bear! Makes death and taxes/maverick stronger. Any thalia deck straight up benefits from this. I'm going to run 4 of this in my Mav for sure.

Having 8 thalias is no joke and 3/1 is a pretty decent clock.

[Humphrey]

I kinda feel relieved. Would have liked to see it in red, though

[Fizzeler]

Assuming this card sees tons and tons of play (and the fact that it turns off your own Brainstorms suggests that it is limited to just a small handful of decks), it is easily answerable by, among other things, Gut Shot.

It's also super squishy versus Stoneforge into Jitte.

Still good, to be sure, but not pants-shittingly so.

EDIT: I will say that I don't understand why that card is an enchantment. You could remove the Enchantment type from it and it would make just as much sense. That type seems there more as a box-ticking exercise than anything.

It is an extremely fair card that every deck can answer, but gives non blue decks a serious tool to fight combo and blue decks

Its an enchantment due to its effect, it globally effects both players and is similar to chains (with stopping extra card draw) hence the enchantment part

I like it, Nic Pod wants this very very badly

[Shawon]

It's an enchantment that happens to screw over Enchantress. I love it.

Oh noes, another way I can't cast Thoughtcast!

[Lord Seth]

Wow, that's actually a really cool card. I like it.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Assuming this card sees tons and tons of play (and the fact that it turns off your own Brainstorms suggests that it is limited to just a small handful of decks), it is easily answerable by, among other things, Gut Shot.

It's also super squishy versus Stoneforge into Jitte.

Still good, to be sure, but not pants-shittingly so.

EDIT: I will say that I don't understand why that card is an enchantment. You could remove the Enchantment type from it and it would make just as much sense. That type seems there more as a box-ticking exercise than anything.

I'm pretty sure that if the last few years have confirmed anything, it's that Wizards just has a hardon for trying new frames and will come up with any bullshit justification for doing so.

[Arsenal]

Bravo Born of the Gods, bravo.

[slikwilly]

I predict a spate of Drawing Extra Cards infractions.

[Aggro_zombies]

Eh, maybe sometime in the future. Spirit actually seems poorly positioned right now given D&T's relative position in the metagame and the fact that there's a bunch of non-targeted hate for one toughness dudes running around thanks to TNN. Decks like BUG or WUR Delver can very easily dispatch this guy.

[Arsenal]

But they need the answer in hand when she lands, otherwise they're a slave to their draw step until they can find a Bolt for her.

I can't even count the number of times when I'm losing board positioning and I topdeck into a Brainstorm and it literally saves the day. With a SoL out, if I don't have the answer in hand, I probably won't get it at all.

[Lemnear]

That's a joke right? You can't even cantrip into a Swords to Plowshares with Ponder while getting beaten for 3 each turn! This is possibly a backbreaker for control we used to know.

Kills Show&Tell decks, High Tide, Doomsday and a bunch of others

[MrShine]

Dopeness. So Spirit. Much Hate.

Also, totally onboard w/ hatecat nomenclature.

[Griselpuff]

Or... hatekitty

[Arsenal]

Aggro, I understand that SoL is a creature that dies to many spells, but lots of other creatures do too and they still see plenty of play. What happens when SoL resolves and you're not holding the removal spell you need in hand? How are you going to find your answers if you're a slave to your natural draw step while eating at least 3 per turn? And if played in D&T and Maverick, how do you kill SoL when they'll likely have a Mom out? You mentioned Patriot wouldn't have a problem with SoL, but Bolt and StP get blanked by Mom.

[Windmill]

I am so in love with this card. I wish she had a place in Merfolk, because I'd love to hate on all of the other blue decks that get to take advantage of brainstorm :wink: but I am relieved she isn't blue, and am really glad that WotC listened and made a great legacy non-blue card. She must see play in D&T.

[lavafrogg]

I'm preordering four the second I can. Never playing blue again! Junk is gonna be for reals!