[DECK] UR Control

[Davran]

I've been playing a bunch of modern lately (my LGS has modern FNM) and bouncing between UWR Control and Woo's new mono-U ninja bear delver list. Both decks have their merits, but they haven't really been all that ideal for my meta. I cooked up the following list based on a couple decks that have gone 3-1 recently on MODO and a few ideas of cards that I want to run:

Deck:
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Stormbreath Dragon

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Izzet Charm
4 Mana Leak
3 Think Twice
2 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command

3 Serum Visions

3 Vedalken Shackles

1 Breeding Pool
8 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Tectonic Edge

Sideboard:
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Combust
1 Dispel
2 Pyroclasm
9 Other Cards

The essential idea I had was that Vedalken Shackles is a good magic card. I played a bunch of matches last week that I won off the back of a resolved Shackles, and a few others where I really wished I had access to one.

The deck also includes the full boat of Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage, which in my opinion is the best part of Woo's list. Snapcaster into Cryptic is incredibly back breaking for a lot of decks in the format.

The obvious difference between this list and established archetypes is the lack of white. To be frank, UWR is wonderful until your opponent resolves a Blood Moon. With one Plains and 3 Arid Mesa most UWR lists struggle to find a basic white source before Blood Moon can resolve, especially if you're forced to counter an earlier spell or the Blood Moon player is backing it up with countermagic of his own (i.e. UR Delver, Twin etc.). Further, it seems more and more like the "stock" UWR control list lacks any sort of reasonable clock, especially if your opponent starts eating your Colonnades.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

[Arsenal]

It seems a bit removal light for my tastes. Yes, you have countermagic and Snapcaster Mage, but having only 4 Lightning Bolts to bail you out until turn 3 (Electrolyze, and only as a 2-of) seems dicey to me in a format full of cheap, efficient, scary creatures.

[Davran]

It seems a bit removal light for my tastes. Yes, you have countermagic and Snapcaster Mage, but having only 4 Lightning Bolts to bail you out until turn 3 (Electrolyze, and only as a 2-of) seems dicey to me in a format full of cheap, efficient, scary creatures.

Is it, though? What creatures are we really afraid of that early in the game? Goblin Guide? Voice of Resurgence?

Affinity can vomit out its entire hand that quickly I suppose, but in that situation there's really no amount of removal that would allow us to deal with everything they have.

I guess my point is that the next most obvious removal spell is Path to Exile, but at that point you might as well just be playing UWR...which puts us right back at the Blood Moon problem. There are some possible odd-ball choices like Magma Spray or Flame Slash...but those can't go to the face if that is ever needed.

Something I did entertain briefly was a Trinket Mage package of some sort with Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle and some other "bullets" (Relic of Progenitus maybe?). I'm not sure if it's any better than Vendilion Clique though.

[FTW]

I think as long as you have some kind of Pyroclasm effects in the SB you should be OK. Might even be worth having 1 or 2 main. Your deck obviously dominates the lategame (Snapcaster into Cryptic Command, Shackles, Stormbreath Dragon) but surviving the early game seems the weakest part.

You could also up the number of Izzet Charm, since that card is basically both a Shock and a Mana Leak for you.

[Arsenal]

Is it, though? What creatures are we really afraid of that early in the game? Goblin Guide? Voice of Resurgence?

Affinity can vomit out its entire hand that quickly I suppose, but in that situation there's really no amount of removal that would allow us to deal with everything they have.

I guess my point is that the next most obvious removal spell is Path to Exile, but at that point you might as well just be playing UWR...which puts us right back at the Blood Moon problem. There are some possible odd-ball choices like Magma Spray or Flame Slash...but those can't go to the face if that is ever needed.

Something I did entertain briefly was a Trinket Mage package of some sort with Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle and some other "bullets" (Relic of Progenitus maybe?). I'm not sure if it's any better than Vendilion Clique though.

Deathrite Shaman, Dark Confidant, any 1cc mana dork from Pod decks, etc can get out of hand if you're not holding Bolt. You don't have non-Bolt removal until turn 3 and Shackles isn't active until turn 4. UR decks like Splinter Twin can get away with running just 4 Bolts because they at least supplement often times with Grim Lavamancer/Flame Slash, and they can outright kill people much faster than this deck appears to be able to.

Also, the only decks that commonly play Blood Moon is Affinity and Twin Exarch, both of which UWR Control manhandles even with them packing Blood Moon. Not sure why you're so afraid of Blood Moon when the advantages of Celestial Colonnade, Path to Exile, Ajani Vengeant, up to 8 on-color fetchlands, Lightning Helix, and sideboard options far outweigh the Blood Moon problem (which really isn't that much of a problem, tbh).

[Davran]

Also, the only decks that commonly play Blood Moon is Affinity and Twin Exarch, both of which UWR Control manhandles even with them packing Blood Moon. Not sure why you're so afraid of Blood Moon when the advantages of Celestial Colonnade, Path to Exile, Ajani Vengeant, up to 8 on-color fetchlands, Lightning Helix, and sideboard options far outweigh the Blood Moon problem (which really isn't that much of a problem, tbh).

I also see Burn, Goblins, and UR Delver/Young Pyromancer pretty regularly which also pack Blood Moon. The Delver list actually packs some in the main deck sometimes.

Also, I'm not really sure Path to Exile is an advantage. Sure, sometimes it's great, especially when you really need something gone (i.e. vs. pod)...but to use it on something like a mana dork or random burn creature is just giving your opponent an extra land. The extra land can be relevant, say, when they're trying to stick a Blood Moon around your Mana Leak, or amass enough burn to just kill you outright through counters.

[Arsenal]

If your opponent resolves Dark Confidant while on the play versus you (likely with only 2 Spell Snare) and you're not holding Bolt, then you're pretty far behind. Giving them an extra land with Path to Exile stinks, but having an unanswered Dark Confidant on the board is far, far worse. Also, UWr Control typically will run 2-3 Lightning Helix, which is HUGE against random decks like Burn, Goblins, Delver, etc.

Keep in mind that Burn, Goblins and Delver decks are all firmly tier 2/3 status. UWr Control shouldn't have any trouble dispatching these types of fringe decks even with them packing Blood Moon. In fact, UWr Control is designed to prey on decks like those, but loses terribly to Tron.

I think you should add 1-2 Grim Lavamancers and maybe 1-2 more Izzet Charm. You definitely need more spot removal online before turn 3.

[Davran]

Keep in mind that Burn, Goblins and Delver decks are all firmly tier 2/3 status. UWr Control shouldn't have any trouble dispatching these types of fringe decks even with them packing Blood Moon. In fact, UWr Control is designed to prey on decks like those, but loses terribly to Tron.

Perhaps the real problem is my poor play (wouldn't be the first time).

I can share plenty of "bad beats" stories that all revolve around a resolved Blood Moon. The decks themselves may be tier 2/3, but in the hands of a semi-competent pilot I feel like they can just wait UWR out since the deck presents no real clock at all. I've been in plenty of situations where I have to choose between Mana Leak/Cryptic/Bolt/Helix on something relatively unimportant (game plan wise) just to stay at a reasonable life total only to have them go "land, Blood Moon" post-combat. There's plenty of other situations where I'll hold up the counter for the Blood Moon and they just ship the turn with me at 3 less life.

[Arsenal]

In those situations, you should always opt to take the damage from their dude, wait for the end of their turn, Bolt/Helix/Electrolyze/etc the dude then, leaving you to take your turn with all of your mana/counter up for his Blood Moon while having the board empty. You shouldn't remove their dude in combat just to save a few points of life unless you have no other choice. If they play into this gameplan (and those decks you mentioned have no other choice than to do so), you should run them out of cards quite easily while maintaining a reasonable life total. That's when your late game bombs take over; Sphinx's Revelation, Gideon Jura, Ajani Vengeant, etc.

But to the decklist you presented, Twin Exarch shares a lot of the same cards and offers a more efficient win condition. Why play Stormbreath Dragon + Vedalken Shackles over the Twin combo? 95% of the other cards are about the same.

[FTW]

In those situations, you should always opt to take the damage from their dude, wait for the end of their turn, Bolt/Helix/Electrolyze/etc the dude then, leaving you to take your turn with all of your mana/counter up for his Blood Moon while having the board empty. You shouldn't remove their dude in combat just to save a few points of life unless you have no other choice. If they play into this gameplan (and those decks you mentioned have no other choice than to do so), you should run them out of cards quite easily while maintaining a reasonable life total. That's when your late game bombs take over; Sphinx's Revelation, Gideon Jura, Ajani Vengeant, etc.

This. This is how Ux control/midrange decks need to play. Your lategame is better than theirs so you will inherently win if the game goes long, even if you take a bit of "free" damage. The only way you lose to those decks is if you let them get away with something broken in the early game (e.g. uncountered Blood Moon, combo, etc.). Taking a few damage early isn't a big deal. That's what Lightning Helix is for!

Also, I don't get how 4 Geist of Saint Traf + 3 Vendilion Clique + 4 Celestial Colonnade is a lack of clock. Especially with Thundermaw.

EDIT: Oh you are talking about UWR control with planeswalkers and not the midrange creatures? Even then, planeswalkers + Sphinx Revelation seems like a fine win to me. Sphinx also offsets that "free" damage you took earlier.

[Arsenal]

This. This is how Ux control/midrange decks need to play. Your lategame is better than theirs so you will inherently win if the game goes long, even if you take a bit of "free" damage. The only way you lose to those decks is if you let them get away with something broken in the early game (e.g. uncountered Blood Moon, combo, etc.). Taking a few damage early isn't a big deal. That's what Lightning Helix is for!

Also, I don't get how 4 Geist of Saint Traf + 3 Vendilion Clique + 4 Celestial Colonnade is a lack of clock. Especially with Thundermaw.

We're referring to the Wafo-Tapa style UWR Control deck, not the UWR Midrange list that most recently won GP Prague 2014.

[Davran]

This. This is how Ux control/midrange decks need to play. Your lategame is better than theirs so you will inherently win if the game goes long, even if you take a bit of "free" damage. The only way you lose to those decks is if you let them get away with something broken in the early game (e.g. uncountered Blood Moon, combo, etc.). Taking a few damage early isn't a big deal. That's what Lightning Helix is for!

Also, I don't get how 4 Geist of Saint Traf + 3 Vendilion Clique + 4 Celestial Colonnade is a lack of clock. Especially with Thundermaw.

Different decks, actually. The UWR Midrange list (i.e. with Geist) is much more tempo oriented. UWR Control, on the other hand, is much more of a grind. My current list:

4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Restoration Angel

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
1 Think Twice
2 Electrolyze
2 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Cryptic Command

1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Gideon Jura

3 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Tectonic Edge

I had 2x Shadow of Doubt in there...but I'm going to give Gideon and the 4th Helix a shot I think...otherwise this is more or less the list that won worlds last year. I see that the midrange version just cleaned up at the GP over the weekend, but I don't actually own any Geists. So, here were are.

[FTW]

Ah, k. Yeah, less clock but plenty of win. Board into Cyclonic Rifts if you're worried about getting shut off White mana, or just play tighter.

[Arsenal]

@Davran

I don't think Stormbreath Dragon is necessary in your OP decklist. If you're looking for a late game bomb, I would opt for something like Batterskull or even Tamiyo. Maybe try to fit in more 1-2cc removal spells, maybe maindeck Pyroclasm would be okay (just don't wipe your own board unless necessary).